🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅<Punished Buttigieg EditionThread for the blackest discussion related to the pedophile Hitlerite-Zionist clique of the American bourgeoisie and its iron grip upon the greatest bigliest country McGod™ ever gave McMan™ on the face of the McEarth™
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>>2560923 561 posts and 164 image replies omitted.>>2563138why do they act like platner and everyone like him didn't have a choice? he chose to join the usa military. he chose to be redeployed four times. he chose to work for a military contractor. i reserve my right to be suspicious of him. the very least in order to allow this guy into leftist political spaces should be that he expresses regret for having joined the military and do work to try to restitute his victims. even then
I would remain suspicious and I wouldn't blame anyone else for doing so too.
anyway. this speaks to the brainwashing of the average USAnian. they all still buy into the hoorah liberty democracy constitution founding fathers other buzzwords bullshit of the USA. part of that is assigning some sort of moral irreproachability to members and exmembers of their military. and elevating them all to a status of immense privilege in society. those are the dynamics of USA society because it is a fascist society. and the USA is a fascist country.
>>2563167Who said about this being a paradise of sorts? You are just imperialists who think short-term gains are favourable to long-term successes. That's why you're treatlers in the first place.
>>2563050There is no need to prove the obvious. Only guilty imperialist feels such need to deny the obvious when they could let facts speak for themselves. Americans are imperialist. You can type trillion more words of american loving nonsense, but imperialist dog barks loudest because theyre always wrong. All your imperialist efforts to prove americans as innocent victims are unscientific and anti-Communist. Mao said Men determine systems and history. If amerikkkans were not imperialist, why do they not struggle against their own system of exploitation? Why do they fight hardest to defend imperialism if they are not sustain by it? You know the answers to these questions but you continue lying because you know you are enemy of all workers
Before you respond, i give you lenin to study to save you and all other imperialists further humiliation. There is no excuse for imperialist apologia beyond this post. No response warranted except for apology
<the industrial workers cannot accomplish their epoch-making mission of emancipating mankind from the yoke of capital and from wars if they confine themselves to their narrow craft, or trade interests, and smugly restrict themselves to attaining an improvement in their own conditions, which may sometimes be tolerable in the petty-bourgeois sense. This is exactly what happens to the “labour aristocracy” of many advanced countries, who constitute the core of the so-called socialist parties of the Second International; they are actually the bitter enemies and betrayers of socialism, petty-bourgeois chauvinists and agents of the bourgeoisie within the working-class movement.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jun/x01.htm<To tell the workers in the handful of rich countries where life is easier, thanks to imperialist pillage, that they must be afraid of 'too great' impoverishment, is counter-revolutionary. It is the reverse that they should be told. The labour aristocracy that is afraid of sacrifices, afraid of 'too great' impoverishment during the revolutionary struggle, cannot belong to the Party. Otherwise, the dictatorship is impossible, especially in West-European countries.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x03.htm<The export of capital, one of the most essential economic bases of imperialism, still more completely isolates the rentiers from production and sets the seal of parasitism on the whole country that lives by exploiting the labour of several overseas countries and colonies.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch08.htm>First, what is the cardinal idea underlying our theses? It is the distinction between oppressed and oppressor nations. Unlike the Second International and bourgeois democracy, we emphasise this distinction. In this age of imperialism, it is particularly important for the proletariat and the Communist International to establish the concrete economic facts and to proceed from concrete realities, not from abstract postulates, in all colonial and national problems.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x03.htm<300-400 million out of 1,600 are oppressorshttps://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/cw/pdf/lenin-cw-vol-39.pdf >>2563164>when you live on land taken from people your ancestors killed,one half my ancestors were taken as slave by dutch and sold to anglos, and other half came over on boat long after native genocide … america is not all anglos who landed on plymouth rock. america people from all over world. that is the nature of the beast and american proletariat MUST overthrow american imperialism. that simple. you say they shouldn't be cause they benefit. i say they should overthrow it whether or not they benefit. and i say the consequences for everyone outweighs the benefit. cheap burger not worth less hospital/less school/less union/privatization/deregulation/austerity/union busting and on top of that genocide of other people for bourgeois to get cheap commodity imports that they then sell at markup to american worker. whole world hate american worker and blame american worker for crimes of american ruling class, and american ruling class laugh while they go hide in new zealand bunker. i say american worker has had enough and must fight their own bourgeoisie, and this is the one job that cannot be outsourced. you have dealt with enough. thank you for your patience.
>>2563162Cheap banana also is outweighed by the fact that we could have helped develop other countries' productive capacity to just get cheap banana perfectly ethically, by mechanically bringing down prices, but that would affect profit margins.
The trillions spent on american imperialism has cost everyone, including the "golden billion" a literal better world
>>2563172you respond to me with my own meme i made to wake american up and fight their bourgeoisie and stop getting tricked. i say american stop getting tricked and fight bourgeoisie and you say no no no you benefit and george w bush say no no no you benefit and i say no no no george w bush, no no no third worldist wrecker, i do not benefit, i will destroy this system if it kills me, because the planet depends on it
>>2563172>If amerikkkans were not imperialist, why do they not struggle against their own system of exploitation? Why don't the vast majority of third world proles? You realize that most third world countries don't have strong communist movements right?
>>2563175i do not use that narrative because it sounds like british justification for colonialism
>>2563178don't interrupt his noble savage fantasies
>>2563175You recieved cheaper banan much faster and with lesser effort, and you cry about the result.
Just enjoy your cheap banan.
>>2563176Did you beg for money today?
>>2563177>cheap banan not real because I said soPricetag says otherwise.
>>2563178You realize the US spent the entire cold war killing them, right?
>>2563178>Why don't the vast majority of third world proles?When they do you send troops to put them down, anon. Literally the last 100 years of Latam, African, Asian geopolitics.
>>2563186Yes I can't imagine why someone who does actual organizing work wouldn't want to post so much around people who don't leave their homes and spend all day debating on how many working class people need to die in order to achieve their fantasies of power.
>>2563191You "organized" a fan club meeting for your shitty zine and then cancelled the event the last minute because of your depression/PTSD/generalized imperial core anxiety syndrome, you fucking freeloader leech.
>>2563190treatlerites cant understand there is a world outside the US and the west, this is why they call anyone who is pessimistic about the labor aristocacry a "nihilist", they think dont believing in them means rejecting everything that exists because they think they are all that exist and that only their lives have value
dont bother
Bread full.
Bake another horrible bread for glorious freedom country.
>>2563166>Value transfers ultimately end up benefitting the proletariat as well.If that's true then why do the theorists of value transfer disagree? Do they not understand their own theories?
>>2563190>When they do you send troops to put them down, anon.That happens to first world proles too, or did you forget COINTELPRO, McCarthyism, and the continent-wide massacre of European socialists that was WW2?
>>2563180Look at this amerikkkan who kills socialists in the third world, yet dares to feel superior to those living in a post-socialist reality his nation helped create, all while embracing it enthusiastically
>>2563191You aren't organizing and you're spending all your day here being defensive for your imperialist nation and its reactionary people
>>2563181>Just enjoy your cheap banan.NO. I REFUSE. PEOPLE DIE UNJUSTLY. AND I WILL FIGHT IT. I WOULD RATHER EXPENSIVE BANAN THAN PEOPLE DIE FOR CHEAP BANAN.
All namefags ITT would have cheered when the CIA killed Che Guevara because he was a hecking third worldist chud nihilist according to them
>>2563171i literally said the short term benefits aren't worth the planet getting destroyed and everyone hating us… and on top of that only the bourgeoisie really benefit in the short term while everyone else gets fucked. I literally said the opposite of what you are pretending I think. this is such a one sided conversation it is unbelievable.
>>2563209And I'm not solely talking about the climate you retarded Amerikkkan. You do a lot more which I mentioned than just rawdogging nature.
>Never believe that Third Worldists are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The Third Worldists have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
No one on any side of the argument seemed to understand what I (The one who posted
>>2562076) was saying. I wasn’t even trying to take a position, I was simply trying ask why in the discourse, people seem to lump all Americans as a monolith and arguing that either all of them do or do not benefit from imperialism, instead of saying that white Americans do benefit from imperialism but Black and Native Americans don’t and are internally colonized people instead, which it seems like
used to be a common position, but has now been kind of ignored discursively over the last five years.
>>2563217>instead of saying that white Americans do benefit from imperialism but Black and Native Americans don’t and are internally colonized people insteadSorry Anon but that position is even more incoherent than treating Americans as a monolith.
>>2563217Not exactly fun being told you’re guilty of crimes you never committed and live in some paradise of imperial plunder regardless of your actual material circumstances, eh?
>>2563217 (me)
>>2563164 Like this is what I’m talking about
>when you live on land taken from people your ancestors killed,
>The oppression of third world countries and their vassal states provides benefits to everyone in the Amerikkkan empire,Because Native Americans are still alive today and live in the American empire these two statements contradict each other. Do Native Americans also benefit from imperialism, or do they not? Why does everyone on both sides act like natives are extinct?
Not trying to take sides here, just clarifying what the sides even are.
>>2563179We could have developed a better world. The british never actually brought anything of value to anyone else.
>>2563181Good to hear advice that is literally identical to pro-imperalists.
>>2563234Please respond to what I am saying!!!!!
>>2563147They aren’t going to listen to you
Holy hell just ignore the fucking manchildren
>>2563217Because it’s race war nonsense that would could have been justifiably argued 50 or 60 years ago. Post civil-rights integrated many colonized people into the bourgeoisie. Rihanna runs child sweatshops, there’s Native American tribes that run casinos and ride around in stretch hummers. So yes there are black and natives that do profit off imperialism, most of them don’t and that goes for white people too. The issue is capitalism and the rebuilding the American identity in a post imperial, post capitalist nation. Which would benefit all Americans and we can stop having this mass mental break down over identity.
>>2562803>the short term benefits aren't worth the planet getting destroyed and everyone hating usAmerica's enemies worship America and legitimize themselves by pointing out similar to America they are.
zohran status?
>>2563169
Building red army is the only thing that works. American never even tried to build red army so they are fascist
>>2562592>They don't achieve things>Literally become mayor of the largest city in the worldAlso
>If you dont join my larp you are literally evil child rapist jeffrey epstein human traffickerMan, do you people get why i say that you guys have nothing to you except appeal to morality? How is this any different than some unhinged street preacher condemning non-Christians to hellfire and saying that all liberals are secretly child eating abortion demons? That's not going to attract anyone to the movement
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