/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2562627
Bubba

>>2562637
You keep posting variations of this retarded strawman and I'd just like to say that you're really annoying and tiresome.

>>2562641
>wow you sound "concerned" about racism like a lib, but still somehow couldn't resist the pavlovian urge to get word filtered
Wow, you sound like a major faggot.

>>2562643
1. Why am I wrong
2. How is it a strawman
3. If you are under 30 I do not fault you for still falling for Rooseveltism since you haven't gone through 2 or more generational cycles of fell-for-it-again awards yet.

>>2562643
You know what’s far more tiring? Watching Leftypol’s Hitler Youth cum in their pants over the social fascist of the week over and over again

>>2562648
Oh wow you're so old and jaded. Teach me your ways grandpa.

>>2562648
>he thinks history ended in the 90s
Many such cases

>>2562647
proved me right award

>>2562652
proved me right award

>>2562650
>>2562651
Ok so you can't answer how I'm wrong or how what I said is a strawman. Rooseveltism has been postponing revolution and tricking the proletariat into supporting capitalism with a human face since the 1940s. I only fell for it recently. Please tell me why I should revert to how I thought in 2016 and fall for Bernie Sanders and AOC again, this time in the new form of Zohran Mamdani, Lina Khan, Graham Platner, etc.? Their fundamental issue with capitalism, you hear this in their interviews, is monopoly, and how small business owners are crushed. This is entirely besides the point. They want to slow down the very processes that are inherent to capitalism by putting temporary band aids on capitalism, and reverting capitalism to an earlier stage. This is a theoretical error on their part, and it's very easy to fall for before you know better. I myself fell for it, but I don't want to fall for it again. I'm warning you now the same way actual communists warned me when I stupidly embraced these types of politics. It's not just a matter of being old and jaded, it's a matter of not wanting to put a band aid on capitalism, but wanting to get rid of capitalism altogether. You will say this is an abstraction, and not possible, and that we need to work with what we have. I agree with you. You will see yourself, and a lot of Americans, keep falling for what we have to work with until their consciousness develops beyond that. I am merely trying to speed along that process because the whole world doesn't have time for another 40-60 years of this kicking the can down the road through reformism.

>>2562658
But have you considered reformism is good because I don’t care how many billions of people in the imperial periphery have to die to supply my funko pops? In fact I don’t consider anyone outside the golden billion to be human at all, so why would I want communism? Better to just vote in woke Nazis and call it communism instead

>>2562650
>Oh wow you're so old and jaded. Teach me your ways grandpa.
>ending 1990
>grandpa.
sir, you must be at least 18 years old to post in lpol.

The revolution rises comrades.

>>2562664
I don't think you're being helpful, here. Studies show that people double down when you demonize them instead of try to reason with them, and treat them as human. if anyone in the imperial periphery were born in America they would act just like this 'golden billion' you speak of. You tell them to think imperialism benefits them so they double down and keep supporting imperialists. the point is to wake them up to the fact that imperialism doesn't benefit them, or if it does, only does so in the short term, and in the long run makes the whole world their enemy. As an American I don't want to be treated as a collaborator with oil cartels and CIA torturers. I want to be the enemy of those people. But if you keep telling me I am a collaborator even as I try to dismantle these rooseveltist fantasies, while at the same time the people with those rooseveltist fantasies are lumping my rhetoric of trying to reason with them in with your rhetoric of demonizing them and telling them they win the lottery every time a palestinian child is murdered… then I guess there is no hope in this conversation, and everyone is just being very emotional and refusing to see reason.

>>2562670
uyghas is houngry

>>2562658
>I only fell for it recently
If you actually believed fucking AOC would change anything then I can only laugh at you. That's not what makes any of these people useful

>>2562637
I don’t totally disagree with you in that social democrats want a capital reset. However many of them are against IP laws. There fantasy is have dozens of small businesses owner selling their own cure to cancer. Personally I’m in favor of capital harvest, once a market has monopolized it should be socialized into the state and become a public asset.

>>2562670
that made my hands hurt

Look, whatever you do, I think acting like boycotting the system is doing anything is ridiculous. Your individual death and forever non-engagement with the system does nothing. I'm really tired of all these "black-pill" types that do nothing but tell everyone why doing anything is bad. I know your type you're suicidal but too cowardly to go through with it, so instead you spend all your time trying to convince other people to think like you. Your type is the type to try to find someone else to do a suicide pact with you, I've seen it again and again on these chan boards. Just kill yourself by yourself already you fucking cowards.

>>2562633
you sure?

>>2562683
Nazi midget division

>>2562650
btw the clip is from 2012 and bernie sided with clinton in the bombing of yugoslavia in the mid to late 90s, but yes, rooseveltist social democracy has been kicking the can down the road in this country since the 1940s. it still has a good reputation because it's what got us out of the great depression… but it can only do that for america, and it can only do it on a temporary basis, and it requires an expansion of the empire to do so, which is unsustainable both ecologically and politically. think about it for a while, kindly.

>>2562673
So now you are playing like you never fell for it this is a massive change in tone from: >>2562643

But you still have not told me why or how I am wrong, or how what I said was a "strawman". You seem incapable of formulating an argument, only making short dismissive posts that do not explain my theoretical error, do not criticize or reeducate with me. You only play with different tones that you think will make you win the smugness contest in the least amount of words. That is a race to the bottom both theoretically and practically. You have an opportunity to put something forward here. Your criticism is neither deep, nor informative, nor constructive. So far I have only described the policies of the latest round of socdems in their own words. They object not to capitalism, but specifically to monopoly. In this they resemble Adam Smith more than Karl Marx. I.e. they believe in a labor theory of value, but also in the liberty of the small business owner.

Last part in bold so you can just skip to that if you want. I am giving you way more effort than you give in return. So far I am being attacked by two "sides". One shouts in my left ear that it is not worth educating Americans because they are all demons, part of a golden billion, who only want to slaughter children for treats, and the other shouts in my right ear that we must protect small business owners from monopoly and revert capitalism to an earlier stage, and call this socialism. These are both theoretical errors for different reasons. I am trying to decouple the American proletariat from imperialism and reformism. I am being told by both these "opposite sides" that this is impossible.

>>2562683
yes. it happened during this protest in august
https://agnveracruz.com/agn/noticas/nacional/protesta-frente-a-la-scjn-contra-reforma-judicial/
you can see the cross arrangement nearby which was not present yesterday

>>2562686
>personal beliefs alone are what defines usefulness to revolution and socialism
I think you might have a touch of the tism my guy

>>2562671
Well the idea that a communist revolution could ever happen in America is laughable in and of itself so I’m not concerned with whether I hurt the feelings of DSA faggots. I’m content with watching America destroy itself while multipolarity gets W after W simply by building up their own productive forces

I think trying to make working class Americans think that they benefit from imperialism is the worst possible thing you can possibly do. Even if it were somehow true (it isn't) you should try to instill false consiousness in class enemies, and class consciousness in class allies. If Americans really did benefit from imperialism (they don't), they would be class enemies, and my mission would be to trick them into thinking that they do not benefit from it, so that they oppose it. And if Americans do not benefit from imperialism, my mission would be to make them realize that they don't, so that they do not support it, and oppose it, because it makes the whole world want to kill them, and gets them lumped in with the crimes of their ruling class.

But what does someone like Bad Empanada do?

They try to make working Americans think they do benefit from imperialism, so that they double down on supporting the most destructive ruling class in human history, because they are led into thinking it will get them more "treats" whether or not that is actually the case. This makes someone like Bad Empanada happy, because for him, communism is not the goal. The goal is revenge on the first world, and getting the first world to double down on all the war crimes is the best way to accelerate the global war between the "golden billion" and everyone else. This framework of the "golden billion" vs. everyone else is naturally not a Marxist framework. It is an interclass framework. For people trying to destroy the "golden billion," a working class person in a NATO country is a bigger enemy and a higher priority for destruction than a 3rd world capitalist or aristocrat.

To me this is the second biggest theoretical error on this thread, the primary theoretical error being the supporting of Rooseveltist social democracy in the form of Bernie, the squad, etc. The treatler narrative is so empty because literally any third worlder, had they been born in America, would fall for the exact same tricks that the burger working class falls for, and we see this is the case because that's exactly what happens with diaspora communities in America. Zohran Mamdani himself is a child of immigrants fleeing persecution under Mubutu, if I recall, and he pushes Rooseveltist errors, termed "Treatlerism" by the Bad Empanada types. And I don't think he's "bad" or "evil" or part of "the golden billion" for doing so. I think it is very easy to fall into these errors because people aren't educated in Marxist-Leninist theory and they begin by opposing certain aspects of capitalism before evolving to oppose capitalism itself.

>>2562691
communist revolutions have, historically, happened in very reactionary and backwards places, like Tsarist Russia, or Qing China. I'm fine with multipolarity getting "W after W" as well, but I also want to educate Americans to stop making the same theoretical mistakes over and over. After all, I live here, and I would not disgrace any other country with my presence, so I am staying here, for better or for worse.

>>2562692
It’s not about what I may or may not “make them think” as though we suddenly cared about idealism. Everything that you’re saying is already common knowledge. They KNOW that Zohran is just the latest social fascist who will stabilize the empire. They KNOW that their quality of life comes directly at the expense of billions in the third world. They KNOW that petite bourgeois fetishism is fascism. The truth is that they either don’t care or are gleeful about the consequences of imperialism. If not, Americans would have united behind a Marxist Leninist vanguard and overthrown their government back in the 60’s at the latest

>>2562646
Must-watch for any headline enjoyer. Seriously, 99% of the arguments that happen in /USApol/ could be taken down if everyone here spent a few hours reading about the subjects they're discussing instead of reflexively reacting to slop or taking on a contrarian position for the sake of it

>>2562695
You're more retarded than the average american voter you're complaining about

>>2562606
Read Lenin what is to be done. The only form of organizing that is scientific socialist is union of illegal and illegal tactic to build red army. All other organizing is reactionary or mechanic and spontaneous and therefore not scientific socialist such as wasting resources on hollywood writer guild being paid million to write 1 ep of rick and morty instead of building red army.

>>2562695
>Everything that you’re saying is already common knowledge. They KNOW that Zohran is just the latest social fascist who will stabilize the empire.
I don't think people actually know that. You think everyone has a marxist leninist education and consciously chooses to embrace capitalism despite their education. I think most people can barely define what capitalism is, let alone socialism, and definitely not social fascism. I think most people are very uneducated, and that your theoretical error is to think they are not only as educated as you are, but malicious and treacherous. I think evidence shows that literacy is on the decline, and if you actually stepped outside and asked what capitalism is, they would be unable to define it, let alone conclude that they benefit from treatlerism and wish to continue slaughtering people 3000 miles away in exchange for food stamps or something.

>They KNOW that petite bourgeois fetishism is fascism. The truth is that they either don’t care or are gleeful about the consequences of imperialism. If not, Americans would have united behind a Marxist Leninist vanguard and overthrown their government back in the 60’s at the latest

I challenge you to watch interviews with Americans and conclude these things. My conclusion is that they lack education, lack organization, require education, and require organization, and that there is a huge effort by the bourgeoisie to make sure they don't get it, and your theoretical mistake is to think they already have that education, and choose to side with the bourgeoisie. The fault is not with them for being stupid, but with us for looking down our nose at them and concluding that they choose to be miseducated, rather than miseducation being built into the system.

>>2562698
>union of illegal and illegal tactic
Kek. Fedlix do you ever get tired of shitposting here? Can't you go to /dbs/ and act out your rage there?

>>2562698
your theoretical error is you simultaneously say that the point is to build an army, but also that the people we are supposed to build an army with as irredeemable social fascists. You preclude the possibility of educating and organizing people by saying they gleefully support the empire, and are not in fact miseducated, but that we must somehow reeducate them and organize them into a leninist vanguard. I say they need to be reeducated, but every time I try to do that I get told there's no point because they're all treatlers and i should instead be recruiting them (who?) into a "red army".

>>2562692
>Zohran Mamdani himself is a child of immigrants fleeing persecution under Mubutu
I want to correct myself for this stupid mistake before someone else uses it as an excuse to dismiss the entire post. It was not under Mobutu, but under Idi Amin. I not only spelled Mobotu wrong, but it wasn't Mobutu. Please forgive my ignorance and try to see the point I am making besides that, rather than using this mistake as an excuse to ignore everything else, which is very easy to do.

>>2562698
Go away Evan don't you have better things to do on your sunday off running calls to fix drains

>>2562683
>nazis waving a straw hat pirates flag
>straw hat pirates are all different nationalities working together as a family
what did they mean by this?

>>2562702
Don't bother responding to his posts with any effort, whenever you see an angry post featuring
>build red army
just ignore or prod him. If you want to refute him just post without the reply or make a separate thread.

>>2562707
you could at least try to counter argue his point like I do. I don't know why so many of you, given a space to talk about these things without censorship (at least compared with reddit, facebook, instagram, etc.) instead choose to get smug and make short posts that say nothing. maybe you're just tired like I am but I still try to think. For me this is a puzzle to solve and not just a thing to be smugly dismissed. I am probably undiagnosed autistic but I don't know how so many of you go through life seeing every conversation as an opportunity to feel smug instead of learn or teach.

Imagine archaeologists in the future looking at the records of life in early 21st century America.

>>2562714
>censoring shooting
wtf

>>2562714
pisses me off how much the internet self-censors nowadays just fucking say shooting holy shit

>>2562714
it would be pretty funny if there's major societal collapse, servers rot away and big, boastful america becomes a black hole of information in world history mostly remembered as a tyrant

>>2562717
countries don't just go away when they collapse, they become something else, usually something different than what they were before. Tsarist Russia collapsed and became the soviet union. That was two steps forward. The soviet union collapsed and became the Russian federation. That was one step backwards. History is full of situations like that. If America collapsed it wouldn't disappear, it would become something else.

>>2562721
finally someone understands this concept

>>2562712
NTA but it doesn’t surprise me if people are tired of Felix comparing CPUSA Anon to Hitler Youth for getting his car battery changed at Autozone, for the quadrillionth time.