🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅<Punished Buttigieg EditionThread for the blackest discussion related to the pedophile Hitlerite-Zionist clique of the American bourgeoisie and its iron grip upon the greatest bigliest country McGod™ ever gave McMan™ on the face of the McEarth™
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>>2560923 Looking at the Epstein Email Archive Explorer, found one interesting, it's labeled "Fwd: This morning" and it's about Ranked Choice Voting of all things.
From Eric Maskin, Sep. 11 2018
>Yes, we can expect more extremists to run under RCV. But also more centrists (e.g., Bloomberg). Since the centrists are closer to the median voter, they will defeat the extremists.
>The evidence I have seen suggests that RCV increases turn-out. [But it's important that voters be given the choice to rank as many or few candidates as they like, so that a voter always has the option of voting for a single candidate (in effect, he would be ranking all other candidates as tied for second). In practice, most voters choose to rank two or three candidates, but a significant fraction just rank one]
>In fact the increase in the diversity of candidates under RCV is related to turn-out. If RCV had been used in 2016, Bernie Sanders could have run as an independent in the general election without fear of guaranteeing a Trump victory. Many of the Bernie supporters who stayed home on election day might then have voted—and presumably would have ranked Clinton second. This would have given her a victory over Trump in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania (and possibly elsewhere).
>Eric
Larry Summers then goes on about the importance of making sure Ranked Choice Voting benefits centrists. They say it could encourage Ralph Nader types to run, but also mean that Al Gore types wouldn't have to try to appeal to the Left. Here's his email from Sep 11
>It was fun and interesting.
>I admire your friends determination.
>Are you serious about working on this?
>Has anyone done a full analysis of this and polarization.
>Seems like on one hand it might encourage Ralph Nader cuz he d get more first round votes and not elect George bush. This might be bad.
>On other hand, gore would not have to move left to take Nader vote.
>If I like centrism is it clear that this is better.
>I get that it avoids arbitrary outcomes but assume that a tea party nut is as likely to elect a dem as a lefty is to elect et a republican.
So yeah, they're kind of openly sweating about the idea of anyone other than neolib centrists running.
>>2561274You are completely wrong and unsourced.
https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-sector.htmAgriculture forestry fishing and hunting 0.9%
Mining quarrying and oil and gas extraction 0.3%
Utilities 0.3%
Construction 4.8%
Manufacturing 7.5%
Transportation and warehousing 3.9%
17.7%
Wholesale trade 3.6%
Retail trade 9.1%
Information 1.7%
Finance and insurance 3.9%
Real estate and rental and leasing 1.5%
Professional scientific and technical services 6.4%
Management of companies and enterprises 1.5%
Administrative and support and waste management and remediation services 5.4%
Educational services private 2.3%
Healthcare and social assistance private 13.3%
Arts entertainment and recreation 1.5%
Accommodation and food services 8.4%
Other services except public administration 3.9%
Federal government 1.8%
State and local government 12.0%
82.3% of american workers are parasitic yet only 60.1% of americans work. Therefore 89.4% of americans are treatler parasites.
>>2562039A quick scan of the lobe letter only had one bright note, that Donica Krasnov bought their golf course in Ireland. I bet he got the lolita express for pennies on the dollar after he got killed.
>>2562047Wonder how many times he went to wh b4 he was arrested.
His typing is such dogshit, I have a head ache now.
>>2562045Good question
>>2562046Definitely seeing that they wanted Clinton instead. Also very funny to see their concern for “erratic” voting patterns from the “masses”.
>>2562039but that's gerald barton doing most of the talk.
trump bought one of his properties and closes the letter with
>I am fortunate that the labor focus of my life has not attracted the best and the brightest.lawl.
>there is a tremendous amount of money on the sidelines, but the top 5% or 10% tht control it are terribly frightened of losing money they don't need, while the 90% to 95% of the citizens are continuing their daily labors somewhat frightened that they are not certain where next month's or next year's mortgage payment is coming from.grim.
>>2562046He only had a 2.5 GPA after cheating his way through life? What a fuck up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFD88EyZ80E >>2562042>Can someone dig around what lawsuit are they talking about in 2016?rape lawsuits that included trump and epstein.
Genuine Question: Why do people (correctly) call out the fact that the US is irredeemable and founded on genocide of indigenous people and enslavement of Black people, but then explicitly or implicitly claim that said Black and Native people are exploiters of the third world, in order to imply that revolution is impossible in the US *even among black and native people*. In addition, why do the people opposing the claims of revolution being impossible in the US bring up the conditions of all working-class people in the US in general, instead of specifically that of Black and Native people. Idk, it seems like there used to be a coherent position on the left that revolution among *white* people specifically in the US was impossible, but that revolution among colonized people in the US was possible and necessary, but now it’s been subsumed into both of the positions I’m talking about. Also, it seems like a lot of people take the government propaganda that every single Native American died and there are none left today at face value in order to argue that *all* people in the US are unrevolutionary settlers, what’s up with that? Sorry, I know I’m being really reductive, this has just been bothering me for a really long time and I want some answers.
>>2562046>She could acknowledge that she understands that people want change>acknowledge status:DENIEDher whole campaign was, similar to Harry's, that they are not trump. that's all.
>are you suffering with rent? I am not trump>are you ok with genocide (Harry's)I am not trump>are you going to create financial relief?I am not trump.
and so on.
>hitler was elected after all.ah, if
he could see.
>>2562054then they run to say this stuff:
>>2562063 >>2562076is this the kind of debate lefties have amongst one another? lol, we're cooked
>>2562076 (me)
To articulate myself more clearly, it seems like the idea that Black and Native Americans are exploited by white Americans and the idea that *all* Americans exploit the third world are contradictory and mutually exclusive, yet it seems like so many people both in support and in opposition to these two positions somehow conflate them.
>>2562068I think he was talking about Don Jr.
I found some more good stuff I will post.
>>2562083Europe is mostly nazis especially after 2022. They are ok with being nazis against russians.
>>2562076People are unaware that Native still exist because the forced relocation means most are east of the Mississippi. The Fort Sill Apache were prisoners of war until around 1913. I don't understand what's bothering you so I'm not going to worry about it. I'm too tired.
>>2562086West of the Mississippi
As I said, I'm tired.
>>2562091What is evolutionary dynamics and why does it need funding?
>>2562084so many gulf arabs in these emails
wonder what whitney webb is making of all these emails
>>2562102Ah, so they want to sell humans and had to find another word for human chattel.
>NUTS!!!!>>2562106I think they want to enslave humanity. We are ruled by gay nazi transhumanist ubermensch oligarchs. In other words
HEIL HYDRA!!
>>2562084>karyynaprobably Karyna Shuliak. His last public girlfriend. look at this young woman, pf. a 50 or so guy with this qt. of fucking course.
>I am struck by the similar mannerism between trump and mcgyver.lmao
>>2562083and then they cry about third worldists lol
>>2562089I have the feeling he wrote that way to avoid some searching tools across espionage agencies.
search in the folders if you see someone asking him he writes that way.
>>2562107That sums it up.
>>2562076Its your job to figure it out by you know, doing stats and polls that are experimentally designed. Or commission somebody with experience to do so
>>2562113Lol are you being sarcastic?
>>2562097who is this anas al rasheed?
>>2562096>my feeling trump do not want to end it(classified sender, broken English)
JE
<Great.fucking warmonger pedophile.
>>2562102>Now Sam Altman (Who met his husband at peter thiels hot tub at 3 am)really?
>>2562102>Donald tell each person something differentlmao. he's so voluble.
>>2562103probably for the wrong reasons.
>feminists want me to have consensual sex with women>and not underage women>this is going to break me and break the society apart reeee>>2562105>the pendulum is going to swing hard the other way>feminists will be in charge of everythingthey got biden instead.
LMAO
>>2562126He didn't really answer the question, he danced around it. Anyway, laters.
>>2562126well, never answered. so this, and the fact that his brother said that what we all know,
bubba was receiving the best blowjob ever, even my opponents said it's the best blowjob ever,
I would do myself the same blowjob if I could,
that's how good it is. it's a damning thing.
>>2562080I think the line of logic with collapsing these two positions lies in the ecopolitical regime that arose in the death pangs of the New Deal focusing on the so-called American ""middle class"", that poorly defined group of office workers, the higher ranges of the trades, professionals, small business owners etc that happens to include more black, latino and native americans than the 50s.
Meanwhile everybody else that's a more poorly compensated wagie or lumpen have barely any combative formations:their collective tongue was cut out and a new one is slow in budding.
All this to say that someone might come to the conclusion that proles of x minority are at about the same level of consciousness and activity as white proles, to an extent its up to the beholder whether this is beneficial: "proles are finally around the same page and might be interacially organized" vs "proles are caught in a reactionary stupor keeping Mammon alive"
I take the centrist position on this.
>>2562126be safe out there
>>2562135materialist explanation for this being shaped like a sperm
>>2562135I think it's Epstein who is in the Trump Files.
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There is a push for fuckery in Mexico, and I don’t like it.
It seems like the Republican Party are all very aware that the release of the Epstein files will be the last day of Donald Trump's presidency and they've just been trying to put it off for as long as possible with the shutdown and whatnot but now the timer's finally running out. What is their game plan here? Trump is on his way out, that's for sure, but how are they going to try to spin this with their next far-right presidential campaign?
>>2562182chud channels and animals are currently posting an image calling sheinbaum a jewish whore. while this image is real. it's from a different protest that happened in august.
it seems to me that chud shills such as asmongold and af.post on xitter are really trying to blow this march out of proportion. when it was actually happening people on the mexican internet were making fun of how lame it was, specially considering marches in mexico city happen
all the time.
>>2562187I have a feeling that republican politics will become about distancing themselves from Donica Blewinski, only it will be more difficult for them than it was with Tricky Dick. They may lose the wh for years.
>>2562187very stupid for them to be panicking. the maga base is cultish. there is nothing trump could do that would turn them away from him. legally there is no way for this force him to resign over this. as has been proven before the potus is above the law. and certainly shame will not force trump to resign. he doesn't give a fuck.
the people won't riot either. the elites all being corrupt pedophiles is an axiom of the universe to them.
>>2562191If the dems had a senate majority he could've been convicted for at least the last impeachment. If they can get a bipartisan majority conviction he can be removed.
>>2562195they've had the means before and didn't do it. they won't this time either.
>>2562200I don't think they will, either. I'm sure the cowards are likely praying he will die but they have to know they're royally fucked this time.
honkoid status?
>>2562135>it balloons around the electionwell that makes sense from epstein's perspective. a former colleague/customer becomes president it's big news, even if it's happened before (with respect to bubba)
>>2562207
nvmd. it's fake
>>2562207
discovery's a bitch
>>2562079>contributes nothing, just mocks wE'Re CoOkEd
, eh? >>25620771. who the fuck is harry
2. hitler was appointed chancellor by hindenberg
>>2562217>who the fuck is harryharris.
to me she's so irrelevant I am not keeping information in my brain on how her last name is.
>hitler was appointed chancellor by hindenbergI am talking about what epstein said.
>>2562225
The Epstein effect is just part of the big picture. The taking economy and rampant corruption have lowered approval ratings and the decline is exacerbated by the maga civil war and is spilling over into stochastic terrorism against the likes of mtg. They're cooked and done, they just don't know it yet.
>>2562083You know, I fucking hate the UN. And it isn't because of any of the things you may be thinking.
I hate that the records of the meetings, the votes, the UNSC sessions and all the other important events tend to be intentionally delayed for days if not weeks, in the case of the UNSC. I see no fucking reason for this, I cannot fathom the UN being so incompetent or understaffed to have these delays when everything is getting transcribed and audio-visually recorded anyway.
The only reason I can imagine the UN working in this manner, with such a greater delay that just about any first world country, is because they want to preserve the media cordon around the institution. Nobody can fucking go for the transcript on an UNSC meeting, they have to listen to the idiot pundits on TV for it or watch the meeting themselves. OR, as it is probably the intended consequence, obtain the information of what and why it was said from the webpages of the country envoys themselves. which in turn become the primary source for the mainstream reporting.
I know it is a petty thing to be mad about but I fucking hate it that, in the case of the UNSC one has to wait for about two weeks before the digital librady is updated with the latest meeting. Just for the benefit of a bunch of media dweebs and the glowies managing their narratives.
I hate it.
I hate it.
I hate it.
>>2562225
This is what I've been thinking. Every time there's some gotcha against trump he initiates his Teflon Don protocols and continues to shovel shit into our pig mouths without a scratch.
People seem to be really hype right now but I'm not getting my hopes up. And besides, the Demonrats are allergic to power and winning, all they want is to point at "proof" and scream "Seeee!? Don't you guys GET IT?? WE are the better party!" And even in the face of the most batshit scandal imaginable, they'll refuse to offer their base anything and still lose because politics is about helping people, not just being more innocent.
>>2562235I hate the UN because they assisted the American invasion of North Korea
>>2562227>I am talking about what epstein said.holy shit he is retarded but maybe so am i
>>2562236That's the sad part in all of this, that the dems are such cowards. If the nagging is ever replaced by action they can learn how to win. It's a weakness of will more than the mind, but they don't get it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n-XnSoAneU Reminder: Fascism has only ever emerged with the assistance of reformism and social democracy. If you are not a revolutionary Communist you objectively are supporting the rise of fascism.
>>2562244Nobody wants to go to the jungle to fight another Vietnam. They won't be able to sell this one.
>>2562045It's an investment term. There's a website called seeking alpha named after it too. From a quick search it seems to mean returns over a benchmark, so basically just an advantage over say S&P 500 or index funds.
>>2562246Absolute fucking dribble. Use more buzzwords! Read even
less Marx! Good boy!
>>2562251The vast majority of Americans supported the Vietnam war and the Iraq war. They can sell another war very easily.
>>2562255Who is willing to go? They didn't produce testimony about wmds and the cold war isn't a factor. This is about oil and most people know it.
>>2562258The soldiers already in the military are enough and they will all go without any hesitation because they are brainwashed killing machines.
>>2562259Perhaps, but I don't see any consensus that this is justified. Starting a war without congressional approval would be political suicide.
>>2562268Literally nothing has ever happened to any president who started a war without congressional approval. All of congress will step in line because they are all imperialists if not outright fascists.
Trump can start a war and he probably will, and it will do nothing but solidify his support.
You overestimate America. The average American, including all of Congress, is rabidly pro-war and pro-imperialism. The vast majority of Americans are willing and enthusiastic collaborators.
>>2562254Incorrect. Read Dutt. Social democracy is objectively the midwife of fascism. All non-revolutionary parties are essentially fascist in nature.
>>2562244>>2562251what's funny is the US literally came
this close to doing what they are now falsely accusing venezuela of doing?.
>>2562268>Perhaps, but I don't see any consensus that this is justified. Starting a war without congressional approval would be political suicide.are you sure?
>>2562258nta but who cares? Like, the government does not need the draft and chances are the glowies, the gusanos and the local porky already have a plan of action.
If they don't feel confident right now, they have the time. Venezuela will fatigue super fast if they have to keep this up and their trade keeps being disrupted. Bear in mind that just about nobody wants to deal with a government in imminent risk of being deposed. So over time, this will act as a greater form of sanctions. And, of course, this isn't about Maduro. If sufficient reassurances is given to the other powers that this won't mean another Operation Condor or whatever, they will accede to Maduro being removed and work to make it so. Most of south america politicos already sided with
Machado the USA last Venezuelan election.
The USA has the money to burn and none of their guys are (officially anyway) going to come home in bodybags. While the Venezuelan army has to consider how many losses are acceptable to prevent a coup. When chances are, the new comprador regime will lavish them with bribes to keep them quiet and pacify the loyalists.
>>2562272Or it's just that I'm speaking from real world experience and not basing my opinion on internet chatter. I don't know anyone who isn't sick and tired of war.
>>2562278I LOVE THIS SONG SO MUCH
It's been my favorite since maybe it was you who posted it months ago lmao
I want Hasan to listen to it dude it's SUCH. A fucking banger
>>2562276JFK got JFKd.
It was political suicide.
>>2562268Bourgeois government doesn't care about congressional approval and whatever technical red tape bullshit liberals drone on about.
>>2562272>pro-imperialism. The vast majority of Americans are willing and enthusiastic collaborators.So why does all American propaganda non-stop talk about democracy and freedom defeating evil totalitarian dictatorships? If they were all actually pro-imperialism then the propaganda would be about the Glory of the Empire or whatever.
>>2562268>Starting a war without congressional approval would be political suicide.Trump is about to become "presidential" again.
https://theintercept.com/2017/04/07/the-spoils-of-war-trump-lavished-with-media-and-bipartisan-praise-for-bombing-syria/Worse comes to worst, the US just happened to "misstep" and "stumble" and "blunder" themselves.they "were drawn" into a conflict that just so happens to work for the agenda of US hegemony. And oh the terrible
Bush Trump who did everything wrong and had "faulty intelligence" and uhh… whatever we got it done and put it past us.
>>2562289I forgot which Bush tried to kill Reagan but I'm just glad they're gone.
>>2562292Syria was sold as an ongoing thing, part of 'ending' endless war in the region. Invading Venezuela is the novelty here.
>>2562295Venezuela is sold as an ongoing thing, part of 'ending' the endless war on drugs….
>>2562281>OPdid you forget to untag yourself from another thread
>>2562297get the oil pumping
>>2562297Yes, but fentanyl is made by Teva Pharmaceuticals in isael and johnson and merck.
They don't have cover to pull this off.
THIS IS PROCHOICE AMERICA!
THIS THING GOT LEAKED!
https://pastebin.com/W7CELFwPLOTS OF ANTI'S IN A NEAT LIST!
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/11/15/politics/michelle-obama-woman-president-not-ready
>Michelle Obama says the country is ‘not ready for a woman’ president<“As we saw in this past election, sadly, we ain’t ready,” Obama said in response to a question from actor Tracee Ellis Ross on whether there has been enough “room” created for a woman president.>“That’s why I’m like, don’t even look at me about running ‘cause you all are lying. You’re not ready for a woman,” Obama told Ellis Ross. “We got a lot of growing up to do and there’s still … a lot of men who do not feel like they can be led by a woman and we saw it.”Is the US really that far behind in gender equality compared to all the other countries that have had right-wing women as leaders?
Does it matter if there is "consent"? Like, is there gonna be any consequences for the average USAno whether Venezuela gets regime changed now or in ten years more of meddling? By glowops or by sanctions or by bombs? USAnos have no reason to make a fuss unless they are bothered to make one by the opposition.
Sure, they'll watch TV and play along with the troop worship and performative hand wringing about the few coffins that come back, but that's about it. At the end of the day, everyone will be relieved that the tyrant new-Hitler is gone and things can finally begin to get better, like with Syria,Libya and Iraq.
And more importantly that they don't have to hear about it anymore. Which is the big deal with Gaza and Zionists, USAnos can't just pinch their noses and lalala until it's done and the news coverage is over. They have to live with the Zios at home, forever at the fore of the culture war, in front of their eyeballs. Because MENA matters a lot to NATO.
>>2562304They have plenty of suburbanite karens, gatekeeping HR ladies, and backstabbing girlboss corpos instead.
>>2562310
tbh, I'm not so sure, looking at the timeline of US history, black men got the right to VOOT before women. black men have been more targeted with violence than women, but women are more likely to be infantilized, disenfranchised, and treated as ditsy baby factories and home makers. not saying this to defend hilldawg or kkkopmala
>>2562311Heh, you think Donica is going to the UN and not acting unilaterally? He's all alone and Maduro has allies. There's a difference here.
>>2562310
they elected a half black man with a white mom who was probably CIA (based on her weird tendency to live in other countries around the time they were couped).
>>2562313I like being pessimistic. that way if I'm wrong I'm pleasantly surprised. if I'm optimistic and turn out wrong, that's just a fell for it again award.
>>2562315Hahaha got it. Gotta go, have a good one.
They say a man's role is to provide, sure. But capitalism twists this into a transaction, into something that's only quantifiable via direct financial success. I started this community pantry, and while I haven't been able to actually buy things for it, I am the person who sorts it, who organizes it, who puts out notices on what we have, what we need, what's being taken, what's not. Baby food actually getting taken? Might be worth letting people know someone needs that shit. Might be worth asking around, "Do you even have a stove to cook with?" when we realize we've got too many dry goods but the canned stuff gets taken right away.
The capitalist wants you to internalize a viewpoint wherein this sort of providership is invalid. After all, if you were "really getting it," you'd be the one just buying the formula. It wouldn't be a community pantry then; it would be a transaction. You're just doing charity at best, sugaring at worst. What feels better: dropping $300 on a dinner date to flex for some chick who ain't really even like ya as a person, or making sure people you actually know are having their needs taken care of?
The money trap is just that — a trap — and it's taken me a lot to start realizing that. When you're so focused on money as the measure of your personal value, you lose sight of the real ways you can provide, the real work it takes to build. You get blinded by the capitalist framework. Your value cannot be reduced down to a number; a real community is too interdependent for that. It took a lot of pillars to support the Parthenon. One pillar might be strong, might hold up one section, but if it was the only pillar? Homie, that roof is collapsing, no matter the strength.
That's why mutual aid is so powerful. You're building pillars of support in a way that the capitalist simply cannot comprehend. I'm gonna keep it a buck: I'm really not trying to be out here debating for YouTube views, or trying to finesse the algo to get that newest video posted, or see how many upvotes we can get on some Twitter-bait shitpost. I'm trying to be out here doing the damn thing. They know me, they know the clout, they know the score, but the visitor count, the readership, the audience, the notoriety, the "dirtbag leftism" ain't shit to me — ain't mean nothing if we ain't here doing the work.
Breaking down the real chains. Carrying the heavy loads. Having the hard conversations. Connecting the networks. Going to the masses. There's work to be done that must be done and will be done, and that work ain't just wage-slavery trap-house cooking in whatever kitchen — back of house, back of the alley, chicken or crack — selling and moving the money around. It only matters if you're building something bigger than yourself, something truly revolutionary.
It's about sowing the fields that the spark can catch ablaze. A single spark can start a prairie fire, but comrades, we have nothing here but concrete caskets and a bleak, overwhelming sense of alienation. Time to break down the concrete. Time to be a pillar. Time to sow the fields. That's the new energy. The grind continues, transmuted into revolutionary moxie.
—Erik Houdini
>>2562318>$300 on a dinner dateThis dumb shit again? Get over it already loser
>>2562318Why do you use AAVE when you're white? I think you should cut back on it as it comes off strangely
>>2562191> the maga base is cultishNah, not the base. The cultish ones are the minority, you have to remember that. Trump's bread and butter is not the MAGA cult, it's people like your parents.
>>2562319Hundreds of dollars for a gold covered steak exists in the real world. It was a tiktok meme a few years ago.
https://www.mashed.com/1330603/viral-tiktok-gold-covered-steak/>>2562325Is limiting certain slang to certain races racist?
Are there any really good articles or books or even videos on the sociology and/or psychology of the rabid Trump supporter? Maybe in comparison with Democrats who, on average, are more grounded and less psychologically entangled with their party/party leaders. But primarily looking for a good deep dive on the former. I can break most of it down and I'd probably come to the same points that you would, but I can't formulate my thoughts very well, hence the search for those who have.
>>2562333There're countless books on Maga Cultism, but good luck finding any not from a shallow liberal perspective.
>>2562325people talk like they talk man who cares.
>muh AAVE thoughand how did "AA" come into existence, and why are they speaking "E" instead of swahili? Because of the environment they were born into!!! not because they're larping as white people!!! similarly if a white person speaks AAVE it's because of the environment they were born into!!! not because they're larping as black people!!!
>>2562333i used Klaus Thelwiet's book 'Male Fantasies' and zizek's obscene enjoyment you can just get a summary via deepseek.
>>2562186Maybe there is a video…
Trump's crimes must be really bad considering the decades of painstaking work and vast amounts of money that have been devoted to covering them up. Like everyone's talking about the child molestation but that's probably only the beginning. The murders, the money laundering, the bribery, complicity all the way up to the top of the federal government, etc. I don't know if the Epstein files will be the thing that finally reveal the full story, something tells me it won't but eventually I think the truth will be revealed, a criminal conspiracy of this magnitude is simply too big to cover up forever, the paper trail and the evidence of what was going on between Epstein and Trump and what was going on inside Mar-A-Lago will always be there just waiting for someone to put all the pieces together. On top of that you have thousands of victims and they all have some pretty horrific stories to tell and there is big money in being the network who gets to broadcast their stories. Get ready for lots of documentaries.
>>2562359Another thing to think about, it is likely that the full enormity of Donald Trump's criminal activities will not be revealed until after his death, which is probably what he is banking on. His existence will be like a poison pill that America swallowed that slowly but surely destroys the public trust and the fabric of our society long after he is gone, as the evidence continues to pile up and the world becomes aware of what he did and who was involved and how deep the corruption really goes. That will be Trump's final farewell gift to the world, posthumously destroying the United States and causing another civil war by the mere grotesqueness of his legacy.
>>2562304Why elect the social fascist if you can get brand name fascism.
>>2562058Uh oh someone failed math in high school
>>2562217in fact, the only election the nazis ever won was a referendum with like negative percent turnout which rigged to top it off. call me a labor aristocracy denier but beware that you are arguing hannah arendt's position then.
>>2562268The whole point of Congress is to regulate the president. If trump can just sidestep them then there's really nothing congress or the legislature can do to stop him. There is no 'political suicide' for trump if there's no governmental instrument that can remove him, the country is essentially a military dictatorship at the moment
>>2562116I think he's being genuine. If you look at anons like
>>2562076 these guys still regurgitate narratives from 60 years ago as if we still lived in the period of the Panthers and the SDS. I'm not saying that black people are no longer oppressrd today, but talking about black national-minority revolution in the year of our lord 2025 is borderline absurd once you look at the economic and statistical data of the United States. We are as distant from the 70s as the 70s is to the October Revolution
>>2562424To be fair to the new left people, we still have many people here who unironically thinks that there will a bolshevik revolution style vanguardist revolution in the US, in fucking 2025, so who am i to bash new leftists for holding on to dead narratives
These leaks have taught me how retarded the booj are.
All these messages feel like they're written by people with brain damage.
>>2562444>bolshevik revolution style vanguardist revolutionThis is frankly inevitable as america is the nation most conductive for one due to its historical conditions, probably not in 2025 but relatively soon
>>2562449I mean we already know since Hillary's e-mails dropped that these people are basically a bunch of retarded middle managers.
What do you think will happen when it is revealed to the entire world that the US government covered up an international child sex trafficking criminal conspiracy for 20 years and murdered Epstein and Virginia Guiffre and possibly several others to protect a pedophile they elected president twice?
People always talk about how they think the Trump supporters in the US might react to the news, whether they would believe it or just say its a hoax, but what about the international reaction? The US is not a self-sufficient economy, it lives on its international reputation. The world invests money into US businesses because they know that the US is a stable predictable country that at least has some semblance of law and order. Not many countries would want to be associated with the US anymore after something like that. And don't forget that this was an international human trafficking operation and a lot of the identified victims have been young girls abducted from France and other countries in Europe. Would the European Union continue to do business with a country whose president stole their children and sold them into sexual slavery? How do you atone for that? The US will probably become a rogue state. The only allies the US would have would be the sleaziest greasiest scummiest countries in the world, like Saudi Arabia.
>>2562462>Would the European Union continue to do business with a country whose president stole their children and sold them into sexual slavery? The reality is there are thousands of little Epstein operations out there in the world. The EU had their own Epstein situation 30 years ago, nothing changed then and nothing will change now
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutrouxhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Manuel_Schadwald >>2562473>One piece flagoh it's glowie supported
>>2562467>The reality is there are thousands of little Epstein operations out there in the world.Yeah but they didn't involve the POTUS and they weren't anything on this kind of scale. Epstein trafficked girls from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Czech Republic, Hungary, Mexico, Brazil, Colombia, France, the United Kingdom, and Serbia. The citizens of every one of those countries will know that their young girls were abducted and smuggled overseas to America where they were imprisoned in some remote pedo resort like Mar-A-Lago or Epstein's island where all the richest pedophiles in the world ran a train on them day and night at the behest of the President of the United States. How do you spin that one?
>>2562462>Would the European Union continue to do business with a country whose president stole their children and sold them into sexual slavery? there are something like 3 trillion dollars going between the EU and the US. of course they would keep it going.
>>2562476>How do you spin that one?You don't, but nobody will care. too many interests at play for it to matter
>>2562473Yeah no. this one is a blatant attempt at a colour revolution. This is the Mexican right trying to regain power by forcefully ousting Morena and exploiting legitimate grievances stemming from cartel violence & trying to appeal to the youth with all of the hallmarks of a Gen Z-style protest in order to do so. And the particular kind of image they're trying to portray of the protests and the government on social media also has a lot of the hallmarks of the same exact playbook that the CIA has used in Cuba and Venezuela to co-opt protests and legitimate grievances there and try to spin it all as some grand, spontaneous, and heroic mass uprising by the people against the governments of these countries and anything they've ever done and accomplished.
The right there is also trying to whitewash their own history of being involved with the drug trade and cartels while they were still in power by doing all of this. Their proclaimed and official reasoning for the protests is because of some Bukele wannabe there who defected to their side after initially being elected as a Morena candidate, who ended up getting killed by one of the cartels after saying that he was gonna take them on directly (which Sheinbaum herself has also been doing), and who literally nobody has heard of until they started to try and turn this dude into a martyr for their coup attempt.
>>2562479I don't know, I think there's a limit to how much bullshit everyday citizenry can be expected to swallow at one time and at a certain point the dam breaks.
>>2562487I’ve read many comments saying this, but I want more evidence. The Nepalese uprising was also being ridiculed by the media by saying Gen Z was protesting because of internet censorship.
Even if there are right elements in the protest, many of the are real youths who want change
>>2562076>but then explicitly or implicitly claim that said Black and Native people are exploiters of the third worldBecause there's no materialist criteria according to which poor white Americans are exploiters of the third world but poor non-white Americans are not. You have to veer into idealist explanations for how one can be an exploiter and the other exploited despite nearly identical economic conditions.
>>2562351swahili is from east africa, retard
>>2562473they are a nothingburger at best and CIAslop at worst
Graham Palantir status?
>>2562492Real change means rioting because westoid monopoly is banned and electing neoliberal on discord
>>2562473what no theory does to a mf
>>2562396The math is correct and you are wrong.
>>2562333Democrats have lower likelihood to have high school diploma, hencr their political ignorance and apathy
>>2562473the "young" is not the class which can abolish capitalism you dumbfuck. Juvenophilia is a cornerstone of fourth int'l Trotskyism and a cornerstone of retarded narodnik-like anarchist movements (Kurds, for example).
>>2562444and then there are people like you who think that revolution is impossible and use that as an a priori justification to not join and build a party
is the US really the weak link of imperialism this time around? i've always got the impression that it was Europe
>>2562510If the math is wrong please give full mathematical proofs and correction. The data is linked. Otherwise you must be trolling to deny american imperialism
>>2562511A politically aware youth is always a victory. It means the propaganda and social media are not as effective as we may think
>Trump sucked a dick
I’m starting to believe there might be a pee tape out there
>>2562478The EU doesn't really need the US that badly. The stuff the EU imports from the US are things like semiconductors, crude oil and natural gas, aerospace equipment, chemicals. The EU could import tech components and aircraft and chemicals from China instead, they could import oil/gas from Norway, Qatar, Africa, they could even go back to buying their oil and gas from Russia and they would probably sooner do that than debase themselves buying it from pedo America.
Do you know what the US imports from Europe? All of our pharmaceuticals, our drugs that we need to live, which we don't know how to make here and we never could make them here because our population are too fucking uneducated.
>>2562513It’s complicated, but yesh
>>2562516Absolutely
>>2562487 (me)
I also wanna say that if all of this is genuine, then it's real fucking peculiar that we aren't seeing a similar uprising in staunch US ally El Salvador - whose government has recently been exposed for making backdoor deals with MS-13's leaders; even after the supposed big gang crackdown that made Bukele an internationally recognized name (which itself has been exposed as fraudulent, with the only real changes being discovered is that the murder rate is being fudged by the Bukele regime and that gang killings are done far from the public eye now, with the victims dumped in unmarked mass graves afterwards), and having MS-13 join Bukele's party and do some campaigning work for it, and whose government is enjoying similar levels of popularity in the polls as that of Sheinbaum's government.
Especially with the increase of repressive moves there against literally any journalists and HROs who report on his regime's human rights violations and corruption.
>>2562492I don't doubt that young people there want change, I'm just doubting the scale and role and reasonings of these protests. The Morena government has its problems for sure and there's no denying that, but it's nowhere near as unpopular as Peru's Boluarte in her last week in office before being ousted by an actually legitimate and popular mass revolt against her corrupt & incompetent presidency, or Venezuela's Maduro once oil prices really started crashing; hampering the government's ability to continue funding its social welfare programs and Bolivarian missions, and the US & Venezuelan right saw it as an opportunity to oust him and PSUV from power via sanctions and protests. And I'm also doubting the authenticity of the claims of these protests representing the masses since reportedly, a lot of the Gen Z figures who initially endorsed the protests are now disavowing them, while it's only the aforementioned right who's trying to regain power and has its own history of narcocorruption whose continuing to endorse them:
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-generation-z-protest-9b0a8b1461a1ec47cce696d25e04feb5 >>2562518>The EU could import tech components and aircraft and chemicals from China instead,That would involve being subject to Chinese tech export controls that America also has. So for the EU it's either be a slave to America or the EU, there's no independent future for them until they onshore an actual sovereign tech sector
*America or China
>>2562473>The flag of ONE PIECE has become a symbolright wing color revolution piece of shit, gtfo.
>>2562512It is the other way around, people are going to join parties if revolutions are possible. Or not even revolution, just possibility to change things. This is why people are joining DSA en masse now, since in their view you can actually change things by doing that, much more than larping as the bolsheviks
The Left is not a religion or cult, in case you don't notice. People with left wing sympathies are not going to join a doomed or hopeless cause just because its the 'morally right thing to do'. They want to join because they see a possibility of success, and you cannot find even the remotest possibility of success among either tankies or new left talking about American decolonization
New Mamdani just dropped, Los Angeles edition. Free public transit to boot. nothing can stop the rising tide of socialism
>>2562462 Literally nothing, just like the Franklin scandal had no effect
>>2562545God I wish that was me. The guys I mean
>>2562473These revolts are almost completely depoliticized, it's just unfocused displeasure at the
status quo. That makes them liable to be steered by glowies. So far, these revolts have been worse than nothing.
>>2562571Isn't the new mexican president one of the most popular presidents of all time though
>>2562577Correct, she is. But Mexico's still dealing with the worsening scourge of cartel violence, even with her going harder on the cartels than AMLO did. A lot of this discontent stems from that and it's what the Mexican right is trying to exploit to have her overthrown; and in particular, they're utilizing the recent cartel murder of Carlos Manzo. AKA, the aforementioned Bukele wannabe I was talking about in an earlier post.
>>2562577"all time" might be an exaggeration but yeah she had 73% approval rating in september
anyway, here's a totally normal protest message
come to think of it, playing up antisemitism would be a good way to delegitimize these >>2562272>You overestimate America. The average American, including all of Congress, is rabidly pro-war and pro-imperialism. The vast majority of Americans are willing and enthusiastic collaborators."How Graham Platner Exposes the U.S. Left" - BadEmp
>>2562282>our community pantry needs kid friendly snacksErik Houdini doing a remake of "Our Gang"/The Little Rascals great depression film series
>>2562582>the recent cartel murder of Carlos Manzo. AKA, the aforementioned Bukele#RIPbozo
incidentally, a leftist bukele would be an absolutely unstoppable force in any latin american country, and he would have the perfect opportunity for throwing reactoids into a literal gulag
>>2562531>people are joining DSA en masse now, since in their view you can actually change things by doing that, joining the Democratic party NGO apparatus will change things 🤡
Zohran is literally controlled by the same public relations firm as that Blackwater Zionist Graham Platner who never once said the words "imperialism" or "colonialism" before DSA radlibs shoved them into his mouth
>much more than larping The DSA is larping, they aren't a party with discipline, it is a voluntary org for neoliberal consumerists to chose their preferred consumer products
>They want to join because they see a possibility of success, and you cannot find even the remotest possibility of success among either tankies or new left talking about American decolonization"Zionist settler opportunists are true socialists, decolonization is DEEPLY UNSERIOUS" - neoliberals who say 'sex work is work, google Bookchin' because they are petite Jeffrey Epsteins who actually do want decolonized private pagan temple islands
>>2562592libfash detected
>>2562593this is not a good look
>>2562583>fucking Jew.wow… lmao. Mexican nazis?
>>2562595The DSA is imperialist fascist libertarians, like americans in general. DSA is democrat by definition so they can only be liberal and fascist. They will never buld red army or soviet and will only dickride reformed slavery party as per their constitution so they cannot be Socialist. Their liberal constitution explicitly encourages factionalism. The DSA is actually a corporation as defined by constitution, therefore DSA is fascist corporatism
https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/constitution/#P1K >>2562600nobody takes you seriously felix
>>2562600this is all fax but I still think burgers at least doing the bare minimum organizing is good, hopefully some of them will move to other orgs
>>2562593I'm not a free speech absolutist because when I see crap like this my first instinct is "lock them all up".
>>2562585This dude is so annoying that I have no interest in watching any of his content.
>>2562606Radlibs flocking to the NSDAP and PNF and helping them advance their goals is not “good” by any stretch of imagination unless you yourself only desire increased access to luxuries at the expense of the imperial periphery
Fun fact about the Democratic Socialists of America:
9 out of 16 members on the National Party Committee are some form of Marxist
>>2562619Nobody who willingly joins the DSA is a Marxist, no matter what they call themselves
>>2562620smells a little like cope to me lol
>>2562619we've known for a while that the current NPC is majority pro-partyist
\what's new in the free world
>>2562614Is Labour the worst political party of all time? Or post-WW2 at least.
>>2562583not from yesterday's protests
jesus fucking christ. incredible the most shilled picture by chuds it's not even real
>>2562630
The bartender's objection is literally the essence of the Rooseveltian social democracy that we see in Zohran Mamdani, Lina Khan, Bernie Sanders, AOC, etc.
An objection not to private property, but to the particular forms of it which divest the petty bourgeoisie and lead to monopoly. For them, competition must always be reset to the golden age of capitalism, and winners must never emerge through mergers and acquisitions. The job of the government, for them, is to defend the small business owner from the accumulation of capital. The want capitalism, and claim they want competition, but they don't want that competition to have winners. For them, socialism is a strong government that intervenes against monopoly, and protects intellectual and physical property from being wielded at a social scale. If a small business owner discovers the cure for cancer, that shouldn't belong to all of society. No, the anti-monopolist says he should be able to keep that a trade secret forever, in order to preserve his unique "selling point" in the "competition"!
>>2562623wow you sound "concerned" about racism like a lib, but still somehow couldn't resist the pavlovian urge to get word filtered
>>2562637You keep posting variations of this retarded strawman and I'd just like to say that you're really annoying and tiresome.
>>2562641>wow you sound "concerned" about racism like a lib, but still somehow couldn't resist the pavlovian urge to get word filteredWow, you sound like a major faggot.
>>25626431. Why am I wrong
2. How is it a strawman
3. If you are under 30 I do not fault you for still falling for Rooseveltism since you haven't gone through 2 or more generational cycles of fell-for-it-again awards yet.
>>2562643You know what’s far more tiring? Watching Leftypol’s Hitler Youth cum in their pants over the social fascist of the week over and over again
>>2562648Oh wow you're so old and jaded. Teach me your ways grandpa.
>>2562648>he thinks history ended in the 90sMany such cases
>>2562647proved me right award
>>2562652proved me right award
>>2562650>>2562651Ok so you can't answer how I'm wrong or how what I said is a strawman. Rooseveltism has been postponing revolution and tricking the proletariat into supporting capitalism with a human face since the 1940s. I only fell for it recently. Please tell me why I should revert to how I thought in 2016 and fall for Bernie Sanders and AOC again, this time in the new form of Zohran Mamdani, Lina Khan, Graham Platner, etc.? Their fundamental issue with capitalism, you hear this in their interviews, is monopoly, and how small business owners are crushed. This is entirely besides the point. They want to slow down the very processes that are inherent to capitalism by putting temporary band aids on capitalism, and reverting capitalism to an earlier stage. This is a theoretical error on their part, and it's very easy to fall for before you know better. I myself fell for it, but I don't want to fall for it again. I'm warning you now the same way actual communists warned me when I stupidly embraced these types of politics. It's not just a matter of being old and jaded, it's a matter of not wanting to put a band aid on capitalism, but wanting to get rid of capitalism altogether. You will say this is an abstraction, and not possible, and that we need to work with what we have. I agree with you. You will see yourself, and a lot of Americans, keep falling for what we have to work with until their consciousness develops beyond that. I am merely trying to speed along that process because the whole world doesn't have time for another 40-60 years of this kicking the can down the road through reformism.
>>2562658But have you considered reformism is good because I don’t care how many billions of people in the imperial periphery have to die to supply my funko pops? In fact I don’t consider anyone outside the golden billion to be human at all, so why would I want communism? Better to just vote in woke Nazis and call it communism instead
>>2562650>Oh wow you're so old and jaded. Teach me your ways grandpa.>ending 1990>grandpa.sir, you must be at least 18 years old to post in lpol.
>>2562664I don't think you're being helpful, here. Studies show that people double down when you demonize them instead of try to reason with them, and treat them as human. if anyone in the imperial periphery were born in America they would act just like this 'golden billion' you speak of. You tell them to think imperialism benefits them so they double down and keep supporting imperialists. the point is to wake them up to the fact that imperialism doesn't benefit them, or if it does, only does so in the short term, and in the long run makes the whole world their enemy. As an American I don't want to be treated as a collaborator with oil cartels and CIA torturers. I want to be the enemy of those people. But if you keep telling me I am a collaborator even as I try to dismantle these rooseveltist fantasies, while at the same time the people with those rooseveltist fantasies are lumping my rhetoric of trying to reason with them in with your rhetoric of demonizing them and telling them they win the lottery every time a palestinian child is murdered… then I guess there is no hope in this conversation, and everyone is just being very emotional and refusing to see reason.
>>2562670uyghas is houngry
>>2562658>I only fell for it recentlyIf you actually believed fucking AOC would change anything then I can only laugh at you. That's not what makes any of these people useful
>>2562637I don’t totally disagree with you in that social democrats want a capital reset. However many of them are against IP laws. There fantasy is have dozens of small businesses owner selling their own cure to cancer. Personally I’m in favor of capital harvest, once a market has monopolized it should be socialized into the state and become a public asset.
>>2562670that made my hands hurt
>>2562683Nazi midget division
>>2562650btw the clip is from 2012 and bernie sided with clinton in the bombing of yugoslavia in the mid to late 90s, but yes, rooseveltist social democracy has been kicking the can down the road in this country since the 1940s. it still has a good reputation because it's what got us out of the great depression… but it can only do that for america, and it can only do it on a temporary basis, and it requires an expansion of the empire to do so, which is unsustainable both ecologically and politically. think about it for a while, kindly.
>>2562673So now you are playing like you never fell for it this is a massive change in tone from:
>>2562643But you still have not told me why or how I am wrong, or how what I said was a "strawman". You seem incapable of formulating an argument, only making short dismissive posts that do not explain my theoretical error, do not criticize or reeducate with me. You only play with different tones that you think will make you win the smugness contest in the least amount of words. That is a race to the bottom both theoretically and practically. You have an opportunity to put something forward here. Your criticism is neither deep, nor informative, nor constructive.
So far I have only described the policies of the latest round of socdems in their own words. They object not to capitalism, but specifically to monopoly. In this they resemble Adam Smith more than Karl Marx. I.e. they believe in a labor theory of value, but also in the liberty of the small business owner. Last part in bold so you can just skip to that if you want. I am giving you way more effort than you give in return. So far I am being attacked by two "sides". One shouts in my left ear that it is not worth educating Americans because they are all demons, part of a golden billion, who only want to slaughter children for treats, and the other shouts in my right ear that we must protect small business owners from monopoly and revert capitalism to an earlier stage, and call this socialism. These are both theoretical errors for different reasons. I am trying to decouple the American proletariat from imperialism and reformism. I am being told by both these "opposite sides" that this is impossible.
>>2562683yes. it happened during this protest in august
https://agnveracruz.com/agn/noticas/nacional/protesta-frente-a-la-scjn-contra-reforma-judicial/you can see the cross arrangement nearby which was not present yesterday
>>2562671Well the idea that a communist revolution could ever happen in America is laughable in and of itself so I’m not concerned with whether I hurt the feelings of DSA faggots. I’m content with watching America destroy itself while multipolarity gets W after W simply by building up their own productive forces
I think trying to make working class Americans think that they benefit from imperialism is the worst possible thing you can possibly do. Even if it were somehow true (it isn't) you should try to instill false consiousness in class enemies, and class consciousness in class allies. If Americans really did benefit from imperialism (they don't), they would be class enemies, and my mission would be to trick them into thinking that they do not benefit from it, so that they oppose it. And if Americans do not benefit from imperialism, my mission would be to make them realize that they don't, so that they do not support it, and oppose it, because it makes the whole world want to kill them, and gets them lumped in with the crimes of their ruling class.
But what does someone like Bad Empanada do?
They try to make working Americans think they do benefit from imperialism, so that they double down on supporting the most destructive ruling class in human history, because they are led into thinking it will get them more "treats" whether or not that is actually the case. This makes someone like Bad Empanada happy, because for him, communism is not the goal. The goal is revenge on the first world, and getting the first world to double down on all the war crimes is the best way to accelerate the global war between the "golden billion" and everyone else. This framework of the "golden billion" vs. everyone else is naturally not a Marxist framework. It is an interclass framework. For people trying to destroy the "golden billion," a working class person in a NATO country is a bigger enemy and a higher priority for destruction than a 3rd world capitalist or aristocrat.
To me this is the second biggest theoretical error on this thread, the primary theoretical error being the supporting of Rooseveltist social democracy in the form of Bernie, the squad, etc. The treatler narrative is so empty because literally any third worlder, had they been born in America, would fall for the exact same tricks that the burger working class falls for, and we see this is the case because that's exactly what happens with diaspora communities in America. Zohran Mamdani himself is a child of immigrants fleeing persecution under Mubutu, if I recall, and he pushes Rooseveltist errors, termed "Treatlerism" by the Bad Empanada types. And I don't think he's "bad" or "evil" or part of "the golden billion" for doing so. I think it is very easy to fall into these errors because people aren't educated in Marxist-Leninist theory and they begin by opposing certain aspects of capitalism before evolving to oppose capitalism itself.
>>2562691communist revolutions have, historically, happened in very reactionary and backwards places, like Tsarist Russia, or Qing China. I'm fine with multipolarity getting "W after W" as well, but I also want to educate Americans to stop making the same theoretical mistakes over and over. After all, I live here, and I would not disgrace any other country with my presence, so I am staying here, for better or for worse.
>>2562692It’s not about what I may or may not “make them think” as though we suddenly cared about idealism. Everything that you’re saying is already common knowledge. They KNOW that Zohran is just the latest social fascist who will stabilize the empire. They KNOW that their quality of life comes directly at the expense of billions in the third world. They KNOW that petite bourgeois fetishism is fascism. The truth is that they either don’t care or are gleeful about the consequences of imperialism. If not, Americans would have united behind a Marxist Leninist vanguard and overthrown their government back in the 60’s at the latest
>>2562646Must-watch for any headline enjoyer. Seriously, 99% of the arguments that happen in /USApol/ could be taken down if everyone here spent a few hours reading about the subjects they're discussing instead of reflexively reacting to slop or taking on a contrarian position for the sake of it
>>2562695You're more retarded than the average american voter you're complaining about
>>2562606Read Lenin what is to be done. The only form of organizing that is scientific socialist is union of illegal and illegal tactic to build red army. All other organizing is reactionary or mechanic and spontaneous and therefore not scientific socialist such as wasting resources on hollywood writer guild being paid million to write 1 ep of rick and morty instead of building red army.
>>2562695>Everything that you’re saying is already common knowledge. They KNOW that Zohran is just the latest social fascist who will stabilize the empire.I don't think people actually know that. You think everyone has a marxist leninist education and consciously chooses to embrace capitalism despite their education. I think most people can barely define what capitalism is, let alone socialism, and definitely not social fascism. I think most people are very uneducated, and that your theoretical error is to think they are not only as educated as you are, but malicious and treacherous. I think evidence shows that literacy is on the decline, and if you actually stepped outside and asked what capitalism is, they would be unable to define it, let alone conclude that they benefit from treatlerism and wish to continue slaughtering people 3000 miles away in exchange for food stamps or something.
>They KNOW that petite bourgeois fetishism is fascism. The truth is that they either don’t care or are gleeful about the consequences of imperialism. If not, Americans would have united behind a Marxist Leninist vanguard and overthrown their government back in the 60’s at the latestI challenge you to watch interviews with Americans and conclude these things. My conclusion is that they lack education, lack organization, require education, and require organization, and that there is a huge effort by the bourgeoisie to make sure they don't get it, and your theoretical mistake is to think they already have that education, and choose to side with the bourgeoisie. The fault is not with them for being stupid, but with us for looking down our nose at them and concluding that they choose to be miseducated, rather than miseducation being built into the system.
>>2562698>union of illegal and illegal tactic Kek. Fedlix do you ever get tired of shitposting here? Can't you go to /dbs/ and act out your rage there?
>>2562698your theoretical error is you simultaneously say that the point is to build an army, but also that the people we are supposed to build an army with as irredeemable social fascists. You preclude the possibility of educating and organizing people by saying they gleefully support the empire, and are not in fact miseducated, but that we must somehow reeducate them and organize them into a leninist vanguard. I say they need to be reeducated, but every time I try to do that I get told there's no point because they're all treatlers and i should instead be recruiting them (who?) into a "red army".
>>2562692>Zohran Mamdani himself is a child of immigrants fleeing persecution under MubutuI want to correct myself for this stupid mistake before someone else uses it as an excuse to dismiss the entire post. It was not under Mobutu, but under Idi Amin. I not only spelled Mobotu wrong, but it wasn't Mobutu. Please forgive my ignorance and try to see the point I am making besides that, rather than using this mistake as an excuse to ignore everything else, which is very easy to do.
>>2562698Go away Evan don't you have better things to do on your sunday off running calls to fix drains
>>2562702Don't bother responding to his posts with any effort, whenever you see an angry post featuring
>build red armyjust ignore or prod him. If you want to refute him just post without the reply or make a separate thread.
>>2562714>censoring shootingwtf
>>2562714it would be pretty funny if there's major societal collapse, servers rot away and big, boastful america becomes a black hole of information in world history mostly remembered as a tyrant
>>2562717countries don't just go away when they collapse, they become something else, usually something different than what they were before. Tsarist Russia collapsed and became the soviet union. That was two steps forward. The soviet union collapsed and became the Russian federation. That was one step backwards. History is full of situations like that. If America collapsed it wouldn't disappear, it would become something else.
>>2562721finally someone understands this concept
>>2562712NTA but it doesn’t surprise me if people are tired of Felix comparing CPUSA Anon to Hitler Youth for getting his car battery changed at Autozone, for the quadrillionth time.
>>2562723I want to ignore the stupidity and attack the point he is trying to make directly, because to me it buys into his trolling more to lower the level of dialog in response to him, and it defeats his trolling to say why he (and others like him) are wrong, and how he contradicts his own stated goals. My main goal with this thread, has been, and continues to be, to combat the twin errors, which are Rooseveltian reformism, and Empanadist nihilism (which I refuse to dignify by calling third worldist, because I do not want it imagined that I am attacking the third world or the victims of American imperialism).
>>2562712No, don't waste your effort. Just insult him
>>2562725>Empanadist nihilism (which I refuse to dignify by calling third worldist,Third worldism is nihilism, and its most zealous priests are precisely first worlders themselves. Though I don't know if empanada himself is a third-worldist, he doesn't seem to believe that revolution is fundamentally impossible in the first world.
>>2562519internet tough guy
>>2562727And if you look at it, it would be a self-feeding cycle.
>Build more housing for proles>More proles move in>Communist-sympathetic voting base gets largerThis is the model we need everywhere.
>>2562545Black big booty tribal warrior woman abduct and DRAIN me
>>2562726>No, don't waste your effort. Just insult himWhy? the board is already full of low effort smugness and dismissals from people who feel correct but cannot say why they are correct or how their opposition is wrong. For me, this place presents an opportunity to clarify to myself and others, theoretical errors, and to practice conversations we will later have in real life with others who may prove to be even more stubborn and resistant to education. I want to combat the twin errors of "All Americans are Hopeless and Cannot be Communist" nihilism, and the "We must reform capitalism to oppose monopoly and help small businesses" reformism. Reformism and nihilism are my twin enemies because they both tell people, in different ways, that revolution is pointless or impossible. And I also think it is horrifying and stupid to tell people that they benefit from imperialism and are therefore destined to continue supporting it. As outlined above, even if that were true (it is not) it is still a strategic mistake. But because it is not true it is not only a strategic mistake, but also a form of miseducation.
I do not want to put a band aid on American imperialism (rooseveltist reformism) nor do I want Americans thinking they benefit from the crimes of their ruling class, and therefore doubling down in support of that ruling class. Time is running out and the last thing we need is typical "chan culture"
>>2562735I'm not saying you should abandon clarity and effort. I'm just saying you can make effortposts without giving the village idiot a further reason to keep replying. That's why my advice is to ignore or insult if you absolutely feel like you need to engage with Felix
>>2562738I begin by clarifying and then the usual trolls show up to derail and people give the usual trolls more attention because it is infinitely easier to smugly dismiss the usual trolls than to say why the usual trolls are wrong for an audience of lurkers that may be getting a first impression. I use the trolls as a starting point for even more effort, while others use the trolls as an excuse to make a million one-sentence replies that clutter up the thread with rehashed smugness. My goal (which I will pursue as single-mindedly as I need to) is to combat reformism and nihilism, in the two most common forms I see on here, because, again, they both, in different ways, attempt to convince people, with very little effort or pushback, that revolution is not possible or even desirable. I do not wish to be alone in this mission, but I will be if I have to.
>>2562473Never thought I'd see an attempt at a color revolution happening in real time and so very close to me. Consent Manufacturing is one hell of a drug because I almost fell for it and believed for a second that there was actual organic outrage and support from the youth behind this protest but nah, 95% of the people involved where rightoid boomers, nazoids and gringoid wannabes.
Unironically makes me reevaluate some of my most "ultra" positions regarding AES and other enemy countries of the US.
>>2562712> I am probably undiagnosed autistic Yes, this
>>2562745Weebs need to feed these Nazis their own teeth.
>>2562754So you cannot say why I am wrong, and why reformism or nihilism (pick your poison) is correct?
>>2562745zamn. that's wild. which NGOs organized the color revolution attempt? what was found that connected Ricardo Salinas and Mexico's and the international right-wing oppositon to it?
>>2562756The actor who plays Jim from the Office is the biggest dickrider of the CIA I have ever seen, if you want to play this game of consumption-as-politics.
>>2562752What the hell is a Neuro divergent
>>2562763Here is my point, as outlined above:
>the board is already full of low effort smugness and dismissals from people who feel correct but cannot say why they are correct or how their opposition is wrong. For me, this place presents an opportunity to clarify to myself and others, theoretical errors, and to practice conversations we will later have in real life with others who may prove to be even more stubborn and resistant to education. I want to combat the twin errors of "All Americans are Hopeless and Cannot be Communist" nihilism, and the "We must reform capitalism to oppose monopoly and help small businesses" reformism. What is your point, assuming you even have one, and aren't simply looking for a chance to bully and belittle someone?
>>2562765As in proposition?
>>2562745whenever i see that chinese cartoon flag its suspect.
>>2562760I've never watched the office. I just know that meme.
>if you want to play this game of consumption-as-politics.I mean you guys are the ones going:
<Woowzas! Another One Piece Anime Generation Zoomer protest just this year. <Generation Z is so revolutionaryt! The is so heccin organic!<I love post-irony brain-rot!This shit was cooked up in some CIA lab. Anyone remember those leaked files about all their emoji guides and shit years ago?
>>2562446He should’ve pulled off a Chiang Kai-Shek and declare himself the legitimate government of New York City and just squat at staten island.
>>2562768>>2562769One Piece, One Reich, One Fuhrer
>>2562756Fang Of The Sun Dougram and Code Geass are not fascist, neither is One Piece despite the chuds appropriating the imagery(and failing).
>>2562774
Luffy is canonically Paraguayan, though
>>2562773>the Swastika isn’t fascist, it was seen as a symbol for good luck for thousands of years!How it feels watching anarchists and other leftoids justify waving around symbols from Japanese anime “culture”
>>2562745>Unironically makes me reevaluate some of my most "ultra" positions regarding AES and other enemy countries of the US.welcome to the based department
>>2562774
Did not know Tony Chopper was Canadian. Neat.
>>2562773they're fucking cartoons. they aren't anything. the danger of propagandizing with these things is that you leave yourself open to the possibility of the author coming out and directly stating that the work is not aligned with whatever political ideology you want to link it to which they are very likely to do because they can be pressured in various ways (financially mainly) to do so. getting young people on board with such shallow shit risks them later being heartbroken when it turns out that the authors of their works are not fanatical communists.
>but muh death of the authorthe average person doesn't know about that, doesn't think that deeply about shit.
>>2562769>Anyone remember those leaked files about all their emoji guides No lol.
Send a link to this. Pls comrade
>>2562777Kill yourself in public shitlib
>>2562769>I've never watched the office. I just know that meme.ah but you used the thing from the thing and now I get to assume a bunch of other things (that is my point, i hate this way of approaching politics)
>>2562785LMAO CHATGPT LMAO
>>2562781Considering that every single time this insipid symbol of Japanese supremacy has been flown its in service to a CIA backed color revolution people are right to call out a dog whistle for imperialism when they see it
>>2562769Though the terminology surrounding these happenings is rather stupid, these protests are genuine. Dismissing them as CIA when there's a much simpler explanation, ie organic discontent, isn't helpful in explaining them in light of the failures of the bourgeois regimes they were waged against and the absolute state of capitalism globally in general.
>>2562727Unironically based idea. I wish CPUSA had party-owned enterprises to do stuff like this.
>>2562779I agree. It doesn't help that staten island is the second richest borough after manhatten itself
>>2562790>muh organic discontentStrange that these “organic” protesters always direct their rage at everyone except the people actually responsible for their circumstances
>>2562787Thank you comrade. OwO
>>2562790yeah there's a kernel of genuine protest at the heart of every color revolution
>>2562790i think it's both. some discontent is stoked by cynical opportunists. mainly regional capitalists with some support perhaps from CIA and foreign capital. people need to have more realistic expectations of people. poor people young people are mostly very misinformed and propagandized and they can be funneled in the direction of pro bourgeois movements.
like just think about your own personal experiences. you've never met a group of young stupid shitheads that hold reactionary opinions simply because they are outrageous and offensive?
>>2562803All of these things on the left side are true. Liberals are all of these things
>>2562796>organic protesters lol I hope Claudia
vores them
>>2562796Which people are they supposed to direct their anger at if not the government institutions that are presented to them as the levers of change that actually governs them? The communist critique of these is of course that capitalism is a global system, and therefore isolated demands on a national scale can't solve anything. Most people don't share this view. They think of their governments as the institutions that govern the national economy. That's why the rage is directed at them.
>>2562807Yeah, I'm not saying the protesters have "the correct opinion" or whatever. It's also true that various actors will exploit this discontent to their advantage. It's just that dismissing them as CIA-engineered color revolutions, especially where there's no socialism to abolish in the first place is wrong. To begin with, the CIA doesn't have the power to bring all those people out on the streets, they've always exploited already existing grievances and interest groups.
>>2562785Which makes Trump look worse, sucking off a horse or sucking off Bill Clinton? Tough call tbh
>>2562497yes they were ignorant on that but their broader point was correct
>>2562325Dont you know? Houdini is blax
>>2562790The CIA usually takes advantage of organic discontent and bootstraps a color revolution around that. I don't have it on this computer but there is a Ukrainian neo nazi in the gang C14, his name is Yevan Keras, and he explained at the "Bandera Readings" in early 2022, just before the war broke out, that "Euromaidan" in 2014 was 90% organic protesters who just wanted reforms, but the neo nazi infiltrators effectively used them as meat shields to carry out their much more organized and militant aims, and those are the guys who wered armed and trained by the NED, a known CIA front. He even explicitly says that the 10% organized matter more than the other 90%. This is right-vangaurdism in action, and it is the essence of the color revolution. He says "were it not for the 10% of real nationalists, it would have just devolved into a gay parade."
>>2562828why should a white person who grew up in a black neighborhood "talk white"? Why is it "cultural appropriation" for a white person to literally talk like the people they grew up with? This is your brain on liberalism. Not a fan of the Houdini guy btw, but I don't get this particular "critqiue," it's pretty empty. People talk how they talk.
>>2562829Sure it was organic, but what was the class character of it?.
>>2562835How does this justify reformism and nihlism again? That's what keeps being asked and what you keep refusing to answer.
>>2562833Houdini is blax. Cope and seethe. He is creole or something. Creole is blax
>>2562820She is right and this nazoid for some reason has more anti imperialist positions than most of socdem leftypol
>>2562708
why do people watch this slop
the only people i know that watch this are socially retarded outcasts
why are they smiling?
why are those two smug?
is the skeleton jewish?
>>2562834Euromaidan on the mexican thing? idk enough about the mexican thing but I would say euromaidan was petty bourgeois and reformist. but that the most fascist elements of it took over it and to an extent won control of the military , is a byproduct of US intervention.
>>2562848i say to both the enjoyers of the slop, and the anti-slop people: find something more important to care about and talk about
>wide decade long network of pedophiles and ruling classes
>deteriorating living standard and the emergence of a proletariat class
>reactionary and superstitious rulling classes
>organization not going past elementary terrorism or performative demonstartion
>a marxist movement just begging to be built
1880s tsarist russia, take it or leave it
>>2562840bleak state of affairs
>>2562848The main character is the cartooniest of cartoon characters in this world. His latest power is becoming a looney toon of sorts who keeps laughing and grinning
>>2562839>CatholicIs this some joke or someone is just THIS retarded
>>2562853>1880s tsarist russia, take it or leave itGod I'm so fucking pumped
>>2562853there are important differences. tsarist russia wasn't the most powerful country on earth, didn't have nukes, was semi-feudal and underdeveloped, and didn't have a surveillance state complete with facial recognition and drone tech. tsarist russia wasn't couping governments on 5 continents to maintain a global hegemony.
>>2562859>didn't have a surveillance state complete with facial recognition and drone techokharana's agents were till the very october revolution in the ranks of the bolsheviks
didn't do jack shit
feds don't read theory, they can't keep up
>>2562848calm down lol it's a cartoon
>>2562853there are no adjacent equal footed military rivals to have a disastrous war against. sorry lil bro you can't just repeat what the bolsheviks did
>>2562865so? are cartoons not real? do they not influence material reality?
abolish television. kill the electric american.
>>2562867russia vs japan 1905 = america vs venezuela 2025
I guarantee 75% of the reactionary shit posted here comes from outside the united states lol
>>2562872the usain proletariat is known to be very progressive?
>>2562859Eh, it's hard to say how long this situation will continue. Remember that all of these things rely on everyone involved getting paid. In light of the state of capitalism right now, this isn't a given 20-30 years down the line. Though I agree that the russia analogy is a reach
>>2562868you will never be a third worlder
>>2562671>don't hurt my sensibilities with facts, I deserve special treatment and respectTerminally burger
>>2562874not any more than other imperialist nations. could be worse, Libs in Europe are on the anti immigration train, that's a big distinction between the LGBT scenes too, euro lgbt tend to be anti immigrant
>>2562784>ah but you used the thing from the thing and now I get to assume a bunch of other things (that is my point, i hate this way of approaching politics)If I was using it as the symbol of my super serious international "Gen-Z" color revolution movement you'd be right to ask questions.
>>2562859Tsarist Russia was still considered a great power up till WW1 and was an imperialist power. There’s a reason they were called the prison house of nations. Them being semi-feudal was a consequence of them being a victim of their own success as an imperial power. They beat back napoleon at Waterloo and never had to reckon with a bourgeois revolt.
>>2562799Saying nothing would have been better
>>2562871oh shit you're are right. those are totally the smae. zomg wow
>>2562859Let's see what changes after the rising Asian power defeats our once famed navy
>>2562692Eternal denialism. In your typical narcissistic americanism you just can't possibly think about yourself as being one of the bad guys. No, you have to be a victim.
>How do you do, fellow victims?coming from an american and asking the rest of the world is hilarious and disgusting at the same time
>>2562898You double down on moralism. You shouldnt need moral justifications. Be honest dont hide behind moral platitudes
>>2562883i wasn't talking about the color revolution thing, i was talking about the much more hyperbolic position that anyone wathcing the thing anywhere is automatically reactionary, which was already being put forward
>>2562893Sakaism and its consequences have been disastrous for the left, although it's hard to speak of an existing left in general. I hope the grass-touching anons take their experience from this board and pre-emptively throw out anyone spewing this kind of rhetoric from their orgs.
>>2562898You have no counter arguments, you can only mischaracterize. You cannot quote and deconstruct. I put forward a very nuanced position and you have reduced it to something else because you cannot actually engage with what I am saying. Neither the Rooseveltists nor the Empanadists ITT have been able to assault my position with anything other than caricatures, strawmen, and smug dismissals. No doubt you will say I don't "deserve" anything else, reducing the critique of theoretical errors to interpersonal attacks and lazy chanspeak.
>>2562898>le bad guys >every one except for me is a phoney >marxist-leninist-holden caulfieldismyour not special kid your just another american schmuck like the rest of us lmao
>>2562076to steelman the retarded argument
>indigenous people remain too marginalized to affect national politics, are small in number, and are technically outside of the US so exempt from the labor aristocrat label>black people are either kept in ghettos that similarly disqualify them or have been integrated into white supremacist culture to a degree that their status as descendants of slavery is negated by their status as labor aristocratsI think the other anons are right that it's really more about racial identity and the people espousing this kind of thing tend to look at the world in terms of civilizations and subsume people's identity into the civilization they're part of. Which is a fundamentally counter-revolutionary and anti-dialectical idea. It's basically discounting from the start any potential for internal tensions to manifest historical change, that this only happens do to external conflicts between civilizations per
>>2562893 >one sentence smug dismissal
>no nuance
>no counter arguments
>just chan speak and eternal circling the drain
are you guys alcoholics or something? I really don't know how you do it? How do you time and time again just say the same thing over and over? How do you fail over and over again to read beyond the first two sentences of a long post? How do you carry baggage from past conversations into new conversations? How do you construct strawmen? Is this fun for you?
>>2562904tbh I don't even think you'd have to pre-emptively throw them out considering there only way of communicating with a group is throwing a temper tantrum about how everyone except for them is an imperialist who doesn't understand Marx.
>>2562867except the method, a vanguard party that can combine legal and illegal work and seamlessly transition between the two as conditions allow, is absolutely necessary
no respect for any self-described 'communist' that is not a member of a party
>>2562898You probably didn't even pay attention long enough to realize that I am saying American imperialism MUST be opposed by Americans themselves, rather than being a fight everyone else in the world is forced to carry out, and that the argument that Americans somehow "benefit" from American imperialism when in fact imperialism has been paired with austerity, privatization, union busting, deregulation, etc. at home proves that Americans do not benefit from American imperialism, even if they are not biggest victims of it. Rather than seeing the world as a "civilizational" struggle where the working class of the imperial core is a bigger enemy of than Saudi princes, we should push the American proletariat to fight American imperialism, rather than trying to convince them that they are a "golden billion" who should work alongside their ruling class to destroy the planet.
>>2562867Not exactly no, but some of Lenin's tactics still apply today. Of course in America with the sheer amount of potential "vanguards" it's far more productive to gather revolutionary groups under a big tent rather than to try and have them coordinate with each other for a shared goal of smashing the state rather than trying to make a special pure organization
>>2562692Eternal denialism. In your typical narcissistic americanism you just can't possibly think about yourself as being one of the bad guys. No, you have to be a victim.
>How do you do, fellow victims?coming from an american and asking the rest of the world is hilarious and disgusting at the same time
>>2562920there's utilizing parliamentary elections in a revolutionary and communist manner and then there's reactionary opportunism of the worst kind tailing or even combining banners with an existing bourgeois party
>>2562934There's no such thing as a pure revolution, I'm sorry to pop your ideologically comfortable bubble
>>2562929you already said this here
>>2562898and I already responded here
>>2562924 >>2562943that's not what anon said at all.
>>2562950Yes it is. Anything and anybody to the right of his ultraleft position is 'reactionary'
>>2562953what you think anon said: I WANT LE PURE REVOLUTION
what anon actually said: reformism and tailing the bourgeoisie is not revolution
>>2562918I know of at least a few cases where people like this wrecked parties, they usually wield idpol as their weapon of choice
>>2562955This is the equivalent of saying the Mensheviks had no revolutionary use. They clearly did, and Lenin never once refused to work with them, their downfall was them walking out of the coalition in anger.
>>2562964It really isn't. Even the mensheviks were far more revolutionary than the current batch of American reformists, who are closer to something like Kerensky, or the cadets, in your already tortured analogy that tries to equate the American situation to the Russian situation in 1917. The mensheviks were not a bunch of rooseveltists trying to help small business owners, break up monopolies, and restore an earlier stage of capitalism.
>>2562420>at the momentAgree. But his world is falling apart. He thought firing comey's daughter would kill the investigation into the pedo ring. This investigation is why files couldn't be released. The consequence was 'files' being dripped , first with the birthday book from maxwell to work a pardon and now growing support to release everything after the email dump.
>>2562603This Donahue reactionary is no longer relevant. Defending paraphilia by splitting hairs only reveals his own complicity.
>>2562969Wrong. Mensheviks joined sides with capitalist
>>2562959it is strange to me how a single general on a fairly obscure imageboard has the tendency to attract unhinged and unrelenting schizoposters to such a degree
>that brazilian Qanon guy who shilled trump>laseranon>the "china is fully communist. china has removed all capitalism." guy>the MAGA glazer who would on pro privatized healthcare rants>the eastern chauvinist anti china guy>Ferrous Freddy>the tulsi gabbard glazerand thats just off the top of my head
>>2562968American is not a class, they are a country with several classes, and when you say Americans "benefit" from imperialism, your theoretical error is not only the failure to clarify
which Americans benefit from imperialism, but also it is obvious that, as I already laid out in the post which you did not read
> They try to make working Americans think they do benefit from imperialism, so that they double down on supporting the most destructive ruling class in human history, because they are led into thinking it will get them more "treats" whether or not that is actually the case. If Bad Empanads didn't care about Americans and were simply trying to convince the rest of the world Americans are evil, his videos wouldn't be in English, and his primary target audience wouldn't be Americans. I am convinced of the following, which you have not refuted:
> This framework of the "golden billion" vs. everyone else is naturally not a Marxist framework. It is an interclass framework. For people trying to destroy the "golden billion," a working class person in a NATO country is a bigger enemy and a higher priority for destruction than a 3rd world capitalist or aristocrat. >>2562692all he said on the platner video is correct and you have no arguments, you just think he shouldnt be allowed to point out the opportunism of the amerikkkan left
>>2562973the feds take every misguided conclusion that a person might reasonably come to, and accelerate it into a full on fedposting caricature and make those caricatures dominate all discussion and drown out any reasonable synthesis with noise.
>>2562973
>the "china is fully communist. china has removed all capitalism." guyi think that dude has been going for more than a year.
>>2562976I have argued against platner on here for weeks, I am not against bad empanada for the platner thing, and in fact I made picture related. You are not addressing my actual arguments. ironically, your enemies on here, who I also argue against, accuse me of being a "bad empanada shill" when I argue against platner, and keep trying to make the argument about platner instead of directly refuting my points, just how you are trying to make me out to be a platner shill, instead of directly refuting my points. I am combating twin theoretical errors:
bad empanada nihilism:
>all americans are evil and must be destroyed and cannot be expected to do anythingroosevelian reformism (embodied by platner and lina khan shills)
>capitalism just needs less monopoly and more small business owners and more welfare >>2562975>If Bad Empanads didn't care about Americans and were simply trying to convince the rest of the world Americans are evil, his videos wouldn't be in English, and his primary target audience wouldn't be Americans.americans dont own the english language you self-centered treatlerite scum, english is the lengua franca of our times
>>2562983Is that also your reply when you see signs in English in glowie color revolutions?
>>2562982>ho I also argue against, accuse me of being a "bad empanada shill" when I argue against platner, and keep trying to make the argument about platner instead of directly refuting my points*keep trying to make the argument about bad empanada instead of directly refuting my point
>>2562983you really find the smallest straw to grasp onto and ignore the rest of what I am saying.
>>2562988sythesis: The US completely deindustrialized and offshored production EXCEPT for industries which are key to national defense
this entire thread:
>we should be class conscious and convince the imperial core and peripheral proletariat to team up against the international bourgeoisie
>NO!
>>2562988Both, all the low cost consumer industry stuff is gone but there's still a certain amount of industry here that services high tech high profit stuff
>>2562991>We are offering our hand in friendship to those dirty thirdoids and they refuse to take it!!!and other fairy tales the labor aristocracy keeps telling itself
>>2562984He is a content creator who comments on international politics and english is his native language, dumbass. He tried to make stuff in spanish too, but if you have a limited amount of time it doesnt make sense to invest more time into something that will get way less attention.
>>2562989The rest of the post was some cope about how labor aristocracy isnt real so I ignored it for being retarded.
>>2562988both can be true, and they are not mutually exclusive.
>>2562996He's a liberal and so are u
>>2562992So that's the reason a barista from the same chain selling the same stuff with the same company tech earns 3 times more per hour than in latam?
Because fucking Nvidia and Microsoft?
Get real
>>2563003liberal arguments are dismissed outright. A video essay from a liberal is 90 minutes of liberal thought
>>2563006I hope Platner and Zohran see this bro
>>2562982>nihilism is when you think the US is evillol
>>2563001Bruh I was talking about industrial production, putting together things in a factory. Baristas are service industry and so is the tech sector lol
>>2563015you really can't be honest.
I am saying:
>american WORKERS get fucked by imperialism, but not as much as third world WORKERS>third world WORKERS get fucked by imperialism, but the third world bourgeoisie are enriched compradors who benefit from imperialism>therefore americans should fight against US imperialism, because it will benefit them to do so, and because they are in the best strategic position to do so>saying american workers benefit from imperialism and cannot be expected to do anything is at best nihilism, and at worse, convincing them to team up with the most powerful ruling class in human history to fuck over the entire planetwhat part of this are you refusing to get?
>>2563017you think badempanada is a nihilist for thinking treatlerites are evil when nihilism means rejecting that there are such things as good and evil
>>2562994the radical centrist democrat has spoken.
>>2563008Tbf reagan was born in Illinois
>>2563016A barista is literally a productive worker, you retard.
>>2563017>american WORKERS get fucked by imperialismHOW?
>>2562982why did they make his bulge smaller?
>>2563028I'm not saying they aren't. Service workers create plenty of value. However the source of all value begins at industrial production, service workers are just higher on the production chain
>>2562994Even a broken grandfather clock is right twice a day. Local politics should be local, so the lesson should be that we need publicly funded elections to eliminate the donor class. But they take the money and run like their opposition. I think he wouldn't be so confused if he wasn't part of the problem.
>>2563026BE said at the end of the Platner video that he hopes treatlerites would listen and change their ways but he is pessimistic about it. You are fighting a strawman you made in your head.
>>2563029the american ruling class continues to implement, in the home country, privatization, austerity, deregulation, union busting, while building more prisons, and funding the police with military surplus. they continue to slash public spending. they continue you increase costs of health care and rent. they continue to funnel the growing population of homeless people into prisons where they are used as slaves. they continue to pit worker against worker with identity politics. union membership and satisfaction with government is at an all time low, which is the opposite of what you would expect if all these imperialist wars were benefiting working class americans, yet you hear constantly on here that working class americans are benefiting from imperialism, when in fact they're getting fucked by it, just not to nearly the same extent, obviously, as all the poeple getting murdered by it. You look at the relative difference in the standard of living between the imperial core and the third world and say "look, the american worker benefits from imperialism" while not looking at the absolute decline in the standard of living for both the american worker and the peripheral worker. both the peripheral worker and the american worker experience a decline in their standard of living because of imperialism, it is rather that the american worker's decline in standard of living is not as rapid or dire as the people being bombed. I think it is strategically stupid to frame this as a benefit and try to convince american workers that they are destined to side with the people who are destroying the planet, rather than turning on them.
>>256297595 percent of americans could not exist without imperialism.
>>2563037>However the source of all value begins at industrial productionNo, at nature. You don't know your Marxist economics.
Ahem
Every dollar they spend bombing kids in foreign countries is a dollar that could have been spent on healthcare, food stamps, welfare, cheap housing, etc. The rate of imperialism is inversely proportional to the wellbeing of the average American
>>2563040he also said he doesn't care about communism he just wants revenge on the first world, which is what I was initially responding to.
>>2563043not a counter argument, just a dubious statistic and a failure to engage with what I am saying. Americans are in the best position to fight American imperialism and MUST do so, rather than being agitated into supporting it more at this critical moment in world history where everything could hinge on whether they side with their own bourgeoisie or the workers of the world!
>>2563046ok sure, there's a certain amount of nature involved that I didn't feel necessary to mention shoot me
>>2563042>which is the opposite of what you would expect if all these imperialist wars were benefiting working class americans,It's not. This is a false dichotomy.
>>2563049True, and every dollar spent bombing a hospital somewhere would be better spent building hospitals.
>>2563049Horseshit. Without imperialism you couldn't afford food to begin with. Imperialism is a necessity for your existence, healthcare is optional. These policies are correctly prioritized by your ruling classes, whether you like it or not.
>>2563055So you're saying that Americans benefit from imperialism even though imperialism directly feeds into the american domestic policy which is as follows:
>the american ruling class continues to implement, in the home country, privatization, austerity, deregulation, union busting, while building more prisons, and funding the police with military surplus. they continue to slash public spending. they continue to increase costs of health care and rent. they continue to funnel the growing population of homeless people into prisons where they are used as slaves. they continue to pit worker against worker with identity politics. union membership and satisfaction with government is at an all time lowamericans are fed up with this, and like that other anon said, every dollar spent bombing palestinian hospitals could have been spent leaving everyone alone and modernizing our infrastructure, which is what china does
>>2562768>>2562768>chinese cartoonJapanese*
how they miss the point about One Piece, that beats me.
>>2563059>Horseshit. Without imperialism you couldn't afford food to begin with.that doesn't make economic sense, anon. america is a net exporter of food. america would have a less diverse diet without imperialism, but it would still be perfectly capable of growing and eating its own food on its own soil.
>>2563059This is also true. I thought his point illustrated that, what could be is impossible to accomplish because of empire.
>>2563064so when the IDF trains american cops to suppress american anti-war protestors… that benefits the american working class?
>>2563069are you really saying it's impossible for americans to leave the world alone, bring their troops home, grow their own food, build their own infrastructure? Who does this narrative benefit really?
>>2563063You are fed up with inconveniences while liking very much the low costs at Walmart, your iphone, Netflix subscription, gas guzzling car, and weekly BBQ - all the fruits of imperialism.
Can't you see how fucking pathetic you look when crying about free healthcare while everything you consume is a direct result of imperialism?
>>2563067Yeah, my grandparents and those before did fairly well except when a rabid dog killed some chickens and they had to burn it, or having to dig a new hole for the outhouse, but people used to manage.
>>2563049Not to mention killing brown babies is a hobby and fun adventure to Amerikkkans. It calms them down, they feel good about and they know they're exceptional because of it.
Implications of MTG getting Long Knive'd?
>>2563073Not at all.
See (me)>>2563079
>>2563067Your state subsidized food exports are an example of imperialist policies, you utter retard.
>>2563049>Every dollar they spend bombing kids in foreign countries is a dollar that could have been spent on healthcare, food stamps, welfare, cheap housing, etc. The rate of imperialism is inversely proportional to the wellbeing of the average American>>2563057>True, and every dollar spent bombing a hospital somewhere would be better spent building hospitals.There was this guy once who said something like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chance_for_Peace_speech>Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.>This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron What's happening Americanons?
Is MAGA now purging anyone in their cult who isn't willing to support/cover up paedophilic rape?
>>2563049without imperialism you would be the ones getting bombed lol
>>2562995>I want you to team up with your bourgeoisie and destroy the planet instead of team up with me an destroy imperialismand other glowie narratives that wreck every thread
>>2563087Without imperialism there would never have been a USA or American identity at all.
>>2563087This. Being the top dog in capitalism = imperialism. The golden billion would be fools to give this status up. The underdogs have material interest in communism. End of fucking story.
>>2563089How do you team up with a leech feeding off of you?
>>2563087>without imperialism you would be the ones getting bombed lolThis is what George W Bush, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden want me to believe, while trying to convince me that it is more valuable to humanity to bomb a school full of palestinian children than to build a single new school in america…
>>2563093you're right. my bourgeoisie is a leech feeding off of me, and I refuse to team up with them instead of teaming up with you to defeat them, no matter how much you insist to the contrary.
>>2563085Ike was cool about a lot of things. He sure wouldn't have allowed for another guilded age. He died seeking balance and peace, words repeated in his farewell but obscured over obsession with the industrial complex part.
>>2563091This framework of the "golden billion" vs. everyone else is naturally not a Marxist framework. It is an interclass framework. For people trying to destroy the "golden billion," a working class person in a NATO country is a bigger enemy and a higher priority for destruction than a 3rd world capitalist or aristocrat.
Do you really think an American worker benefits more from imperialism than 3rd world bourgeois? Do you really think the following "benefits" American workers:
>the american ruling class continues to implement, in the home country, privatization, austerity, deregulation, union busting, while building more prisons, and funding the police with military surplus. they continue to slash public spending. they continue you increase costs of health care and rent. they continue to funnel the growing population of homeless people into prisons where they are used as slaves. they continue to pit worker against worker with identity politics. union membership and satisfaction with government is at an all time low, which is the opposite of what you would expect if all these imperialist wars were benefiting working class americans, yet you hear constantly on here that working class americans are benefiting from imperialism, when in fact they're getting fucked by it, just not to nearly the same extent, obviously, as all the poeple getting murdered by it.CIA backed bourgeois compradors dine with american bankers… meanwhile i am told a person living in a trailer in florida somehow has a nicer life than they would otherwise because a portion of their income was taxed to fund the slaughter of foreign children instead of the domestic improvement of infrastructure.
americans are fed up with this, and like that other anon said, every dollar spent bombing palestinian hospitals could have been spent leaving everyone alone and modernizing our infrastructure, which is what china does.
>>2563076>You are fed up with inconveniences while liking very much the low costs at Walmart, your iphone, Netflix subscription, gas guzzling car, and weekly BBQ - all the fruits of imperialism.i want my government to stop bombing people in my name and all you can do is make up strawmen you are locked arm in arm with the zionist pedophile bourgeoisie who tell me that them committing crimes in my name with my tax dollars is for my safety and benefit. what teh fuck is this shit?
even if I did benefit from all this, why won't you tolerate class traitors? if I benefit from this why am I not allowed to oppose it, the same way engels opposed capitalism despite being a capitalist?
>>2563051what is a productive nonproletarian
>>2563090you're thinking of colonization, not imperialism in the leninist sense of the word
>>2562727I think California would be a good experiment in trying to get a broad coalition of voters and running candidates out here would just be smart. I mean not only do you get practice running in diverse locales, but I think statewide races would be a way to formulate how to appeal to rural, often conservative constituencies. Because being able to sink both Republican and Democrat coalitions would be key to building a powerful vehicle for change.
>>2563101yeah pretty much this
>>2563076Iphones, television, cars, and bbq notably do not exist outside of "the west"
>>2563104Yep. And if the wealthy wanted a deduction they did things like building hospitals.
>>2563108
> If amerikkkans were not imperialist, why do they destroy system of exploitation?
based typo. i assume you meant to say "why do they not destroy" and my answer is american WORKERS should destroy american imperialism despite liars like the american ruling class (and you) trying to convince american WORKERS that they benefit from privatization, deregulation, union busting, austerity, more prisons, less schools, less hospitals, and the whole world hating us. my goal is to get the american worker to betray their bourgeoisie. your goal is to convince the american worker to help their bourgeoisie destroy the planet, which is the same goal that the american bourgeoisie has. you say "bark loudest" but bark bark bark is all you do.
>>2563111
you literally counter argue against me while posting an image I MYSELF MADE lmfao. my goal is to get americans to stop acting like that picture, your goal is to get them to double down
>>2563111
Ding ding ding
>>2563112Where I'm from if you have an iphone you are guaranteed to be p-bourg, bourg, or a huckster. Where you are from any prole can buy one.
LMAO, so Trump is basically just Volgin from MGS isnt he? Fucking Kojima.
>>2563111
this reads like a fedpost made in a factory
>>2563111
>If amerikkkans were not imperialist, why do they destroy system of exploitation? Why do they fight hardest to defend imperialism if they are not sustain by it? You know the answers to these questions but you continue lying because you know you are enemy of all workers
Did you mean don't they?
>>2563118And where I live having an iphone is a basic requirement for holding even a minimum wage job, as employers make you sign up for multiple apps through which they communicate scheduling changes and get paid among other things. Even outside the "imperial core" cell phones are pretty common. Where do you live where they're a decadent luxury?
i say americans should fight their own government that destroys the planet that we all live on, the only one we have, then every glowie crawls out of woodwork to say why this is impossible and to reinforce american bourgeois narrative that making the whole world hate american workers by bombing them nonstop is actually a good thing for american workers even when it is paired with privatization, deregulation, union busting, austerity, more cops, more prisons, less schools, less hospitals, crumbling infrastructure, expensive health care, because "well at least you get netflix and heart attack on a bun"
>>2563123Proles here buy Chinese phones, for obvious reasons.
I'm sorry you are FORCED to consoom iphones.
>>2563127i literally have a 10 year old huawei even though they aren't sold in burgerland anymore. its a good phone
>>2563129no, you see, every time a palestinian child dies, a new cow or pig appears on a ranch in america. that's just how food is made.
>>2563125>feformist cries about the dwindling treatsyou will never get it
>>2563132i literally spent the first half of the thread fighting against reformism, then got told i was a third worldist, and then i said no, we should destroy american imperialism and i get told that's impossible.
what is your actual problem? You literally argue against me with memes i myself made.
>>2563129You are choosing Blackwater mercenary nazoids, whose closest associates and family members are Zionists, to make your burgers and then pretend you're "using" them
>>2563127Okay so it's not even about treats then, it's about consooooming the right brands. You're literally just reinventing "ethical capitalism" but with Chinese characteristics
>>2563127>Proles here buy Chinese phonesSo in other words imperialism isn't necessary to buy a smartphone.
>>2563135>>2563136Amazing that you faggots don't even consider the price tag.
>>2563134i say platner is nazi, i get told i am shilling bad empanada
i say bad empanada is wrong also, and I get told i am shilling platner
maybe the american proletariat should overthrow the american bourgeoisie so that the american bourgeoisie stops killing the entire planet, and that saying the american proletariat benefits from the planet being destroyed is a retarded narrative, considering the american proletariat lives on the planet that is being destroyed by the american bourgeoisie?
>>2563142I swear it's like a religion to these people
>>2563137Except that the price tag isn't representative of quality, it's literally just a ripoff that Apple sells phones for so much more than other companies.
>>2563137the american proletariat is the only proletariat that can destroy the american bourgeoisie, who are holding the planet hostage. to tell the american proletariat, who are in the best position to overthrow american imperialism, that they benefit from american imperialism, is agitating the americna proletariat to help destroy the planet, instead of fulfilling their destiny of ending american imperialism, which does not in fact benefit them, but rather harms them indiretly rather than directly.
>>2563142i am taking the rational kernel of what they are saying (that living in burger land is less bad than living in gaza) and subtracting the nonsense (that living in burger land is paradise, and that burger workers benefit from what happens in gaza), and concluding something important (american workers should struggle against their ruling class) rather than simply dismissing them which enables their complex.
>>2563141>the american proletariat benefits from the planet being destroyed is a retarded narrativeCooked up by king retard himself – you.
You benefit from value transfers, overthrowing resisting countries, dollar hegemony, the IMF, etc. Unless you understand this you will never be a communist
>>2563145>the american proletariat is the only proletariat that can destroy the american bourgeoisieI'm pretty sure other countries can do that as well.
I kinda think in the grand scheme of things what happens on the american continent after it's global hegemony will be a footnote in human history from now on. It's too isolated from where all the action usually takes place and where the main lever of history usually always is, Eurasia
>>2563148>You benefit from value transfersAnon, the Marxist economists like Micheal Roberts that lay out the theory of value transfers specifically argue that they don't benefit first world workers.
>>2563147>imperialism is when PalastineI hate Americans so, so, so much, bros, it's unbelievable.
>>2563151american bourgeoisie will nuke the world, only american proletariat can kill american bourgeoisie before they hit the button
>>2563156palestine is just one of many examples. i get what you are saying. you are saying burger benefit from cheap banana when jacobo arbenz overthrown. i regularly try to educate my fellow burger on what horrors our govt has done. most of them have no idea. but it would be strategically unwise to say "it is actually good that banana cheap, and that totally outweighs less school, less hospital, less union, more cop, more prison, more war, privatization, deregulation, austerity. cheap commodity is framed as "reward" to american worker for imperialism, but this "reward" is far outweighed by the consequenes, obviously the consequences for everyone else, but also the consequences for american worker, since they take blame for what their bourgeoisie do. american bourgeoisie will hide in bunker in new zealand the moment american "treatlerite" gets slaughtered by "glorious JDPON avenger"
>>2563151genuinely, legitimately, how
that would require bare minimum getting a blue-water navy up, a multibillion dollar investment, of which China is the only really feasible option. The other major naval construction yards are owned by American allies/subjugates.
The only element who is even remotely in position to do what you suggest is mexico, or perhaps some latin american coalition, which is also where the US has a huge deal of invested disruption elements, let alone military capability.
The only other way to do this would be some kind of multilateral economic agreement to specifically exclude the US from the world economy and accept a sunk-cost in US debt, but there was a relatively good opportunity to coalesce and do that when the world-wide tariffs hit all at once earlier this year, and they didn't.
>>2563141>american proletariat benefits from the planet being destroyed is a retarded narrative,It really is not. You are passively and actively benefiting from Amerikkkan imperialism. This happens when you import goods like oil and minerals from countries your nation has destroyed or oppressed, when you live on land taken from people your ancestors killed, and when you never even mention this reality. The vast majority of your country accepts the continuation of this imperial system by pretending one political party represents good. Your soldiers are mass murderers, yet even your most left-leaning citizens pretend they are heroes who need to be utilized, meaning they must have well-paid jobs within the empire to dictate what privileges you receive. The oppression of third world countries and their vassal states provides benefits to everyone in the Amerikkkan empire, either through unfavorable deals that harm those nations or by allowing blatantly evil acts, like genocide enabled by the Amerikkkan empire, to proceed unchallenged. This génocidaire proves
>>2563152 simply what we're talking about here.
>>2563155Value transfers ultimately end up benefitting the proletariat as well. Your nation's bourgeoisie captures the wealth of foreign workers and in the end you fight for the distribution of that wealth, either through reformist unions, goverment taxation, or simply through participating in the market.
It is an obvious fact that there's so much more room for redistributive politics in the West. Even our fellow "anti-imperialist" Bernie fags ITT are participating in the same.
The fact remains: you can force your bourgeoisie to eventually give you free healthcare, but you can't force them to give up imperialism. The latter demand's logical conclusion is civil war and the end of your golden billion status.
>>2563164why would so called "treatler paradise" (burgerpunk hellscape) be worth it if livable planet goes away in 1-2 generations? versus mutual benefit of communist global human civilization and humanity continuing on for much longer?
>>2563138why do they act like platner and everyone like him didn't have a choice? he chose to join the usa military. he chose to be redeployed four times. he chose to work for a military contractor. i reserve my right to be suspicious of him. the very least in order to allow this guy into leftist political spaces should be that he expresses regret for having joined the military and do work to try to restitute his victims. even then
I would remain suspicious and I wouldn't blame anyone else for doing so too.
anyway. this speaks to the brainwashing of the average USAnian. they all still buy into the hoorah liberty democracy constitution founding fathers other buzzwords bullshit of the USA. part of that is assigning some sort of moral irreproachability to members and exmembers of their military. and elevating them all to a status of immense privilege in society. those are the dynamics of USA society because it is a fascist society. and the USA is a fascist country.
>>2563167Who said about this being a paradise of sorts? You are just imperialists who think short-term gains are favourable to long-term successes. That's why you're treatlers in the first place.
>>2563050There is no need to prove the obvious. Only guilty imperialist feels such need to deny the obvious when they could let facts speak for themselves. Americans are imperialist. You can type trillion more words of american loving nonsense, but imperialist dog barks loudest because theyre always wrong. All your imperialist efforts to prove americans as innocent victims are unscientific and anti-Communist. Mao said Men determine systems and history. If amerikkkans were not imperialist, why do they not struggle against their own system of exploitation? Why do they fight hardest to defend imperialism if they are not sustain by it? You know the answers to these questions but you continue lying because you know you are enemy of all workers
Before you respond, i give you lenin to study to save you and all other imperialists further humiliation. There is no excuse for imperialist apologia beyond this post. No response warranted except for apology
<the industrial workers cannot accomplish their epoch-making mission of emancipating mankind from the yoke of capital and from wars if they confine themselves to their narrow craft, or trade interests, and smugly restrict themselves to attaining an improvement in their own conditions, which may sometimes be tolerable in the petty-bourgeois sense. This is exactly what happens to the “labour aristocracy” of many advanced countries, who constitute the core of the so-called socialist parties of the Second International; they are actually the bitter enemies and betrayers of socialism, petty-bourgeois chauvinists and agents of the bourgeoisie within the working-class movement.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jun/x01.htm<To tell the workers in the handful of rich countries where life is easier, thanks to imperialist pillage, that they must be afraid of 'too great' impoverishment, is counter-revolutionary. It is the reverse that they should be told. The labour aristocracy that is afraid of sacrifices, afraid of 'too great' impoverishment during the revolutionary struggle, cannot belong to the Party. Otherwise, the dictatorship is impossible, especially in West-European countries.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x03.htm<The export of capital, one of the most essential economic bases of imperialism, still more completely isolates the rentiers from production and sets the seal of parasitism on the whole country that lives by exploiting the labour of several overseas countries and colonies.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch08.htm>First, what is the cardinal idea underlying our theses? It is the distinction between oppressed and oppressor nations. Unlike the Second International and bourgeois democracy, we emphasise this distinction. In this age of imperialism, it is particularly important for the proletariat and the Communist International to establish the concrete economic facts and to proceed from concrete realities, not from abstract postulates, in all colonial and national problems.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x03.htm<300-400 million out of 1,600 are oppressorshttps://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/cw/pdf/lenin-cw-vol-39.pdf >>2563164>when you live on land taken from people your ancestors killed,one half my ancestors were taken as slave by dutch and sold to anglos, and other half came over on boat long after native genocide … america is not all anglos who landed on plymouth rock. america people from all over world. that is the nature of the beast and american proletariat MUST overthrow american imperialism. that simple. you say they shouldn't be cause they benefit. i say they should overthrow it whether or not they benefit. and i say the consequences for everyone outweighs the benefit. cheap burger not worth less hospital/less school/less union/privatization/deregulation/austerity/union busting and on top of that genocide of other people for bourgeois to get cheap commodity imports that they then sell at markup to american worker. whole world hate american worker and blame american worker for crimes of american ruling class, and american ruling class laugh while they go hide in new zealand bunker. i say american worker has had enough and must fight their own bourgeoisie, and this is the one job that cannot be outsourced. you have dealt with enough. thank you for your patience.
>>2563162Cheap banana also is outweighed by the fact that we could have helped develop other countries' productive capacity to just get cheap banana perfectly ethically, by mechanically bringing down prices, but that would affect profit margins.
The trillions spent on american imperialism has cost everyone, including the "golden billion" a literal better world
>>2563172you respond to me with my own meme i made to wake american up and fight their bourgeoisie and stop getting tricked. i say american stop getting tricked and fight bourgeoisie and you say no no no you benefit and george w bush say no no no you benefit and i say no no no george w bush, no no no third worldist wrecker, i do not benefit, i will destroy this system if it kills me, because the planet depends on it
>>2563172>If amerikkkans were not imperialist, why do they not struggle against their own system of exploitation? Why don't the vast majority of third world proles? You realize that most third world countries don't have strong communist movements right?
>>2563175i do not use that narrative because it sounds like british justification for colonialism
>>2563178don't interrupt his noble savage fantasies
>>2563175You recieved cheaper banan much faster and with lesser effort, and you cry about the result.
Just enjoy your cheap banan.
>>2563176Did you beg for money today?
>>2563177>cheap banan not real because I said soPricetag says otherwise.
>>2563178You realize the US spent the entire cold war killing them, right?
>>2563178>Why don't the vast majority of third world proles?When they do you send troops to put them down, anon. Literally the last 100 years of Latam, African, Asian geopolitics.
>>2563186Yes I can't imagine why someone who does actual organizing work wouldn't want to post so much around people who don't leave their homes and spend all day debating on how many working class people need to die in order to achieve their fantasies of power.
>>2563191You "organized" a fan club meeting for your shitty zine and then cancelled the event the last minute because of your depression/PTSD/generalized imperial core anxiety syndrome, you fucking freeloader leech.
>>2563190treatlerites cant understand there is a world outside the US and the west, this is why they call anyone who is pessimistic about the labor aristocacry a "nihilist", they think dont believing in them means rejecting everything that exists because they think they are all that exist and that only their lives have value
dont bother
Bread full.
Bake another horrible bread for glorious freedom country.
>>2563166>Value transfers ultimately end up benefitting the proletariat as well.If that's true then why do the theorists of value transfer disagree? Do they not understand their own theories?
>>2563190>When they do you send troops to put them down, anon.That happens to first world proles too, or did you forget COINTELPRO, McCarthyism, and the continent-wide massacre of European socialists that was WW2?
>>2563180Look at this amerikkkan who kills socialists in the third world, yet dares to feel superior to those living in a post-socialist reality his nation helped create, all while embracing it enthusiastically
>>2563191You aren't organizing and you're spending all your day here being defensive for your imperialist nation and its reactionary people
>>2563181>Just enjoy your cheap banan.NO. I REFUSE. PEOPLE DIE UNJUSTLY. AND I WILL FIGHT IT. I WOULD RATHER EXPENSIVE BANAN THAN PEOPLE DIE FOR CHEAP BANAN.
All namefags ITT would have cheered when the CIA killed Che Guevara because he was a hecking third worldist chud nihilist according to them
>>2563171i literally said the short term benefits aren't worth the planet getting destroyed and everyone hating us… and on top of that only the bourgeoisie really benefit in the short term while everyone else gets fucked. I literally said the opposite of what you are pretending I think. this is such a one sided conversation it is unbelievable.
>>2563209And I'm not solely talking about the climate you retarded Amerikkkan. You do a lot more which I mentioned than just rawdogging nature.
>Never believe that Third Worldists are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The Third Worldists have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
No one on any side of the argument seemed to understand what I (The one who posted
>>2562076) was saying. I wasn’t even trying to take a position, I was simply trying ask why in the discourse, people seem to lump all Americans as a monolith and arguing that either all of them do or do not benefit from imperialism, instead of saying that white Americans do benefit from imperialism but Black and Native Americans don’t and are internally colonized people instead, which it seems like
used to be a common position, but has now been kind of ignored discursively over the last five years.
>>2563217>instead of saying that white Americans do benefit from imperialism but Black and Native Americans don’t and are internally colonized people insteadSorry Anon but that position is even more incoherent than treating Americans as a monolith.
>>2563217Not exactly fun being told you’re guilty of crimes you never committed and live in some paradise of imperial plunder regardless of your actual material circumstances, eh?
>>2563217 (me)
>>2563164 Like this is what I’m talking about
>when you live on land taken from people your ancestors killed,
>The oppression of third world countries and their vassal states provides benefits to everyone in the Amerikkkan empire,Because Native Americans are still alive today and live in the American empire these two statements contradict each other. Do Native Americans also benefit from imperialism, or do they not? Why does everyone on both sides act like natives are extinct?
Not trying to take sides here, just clarifying what the sides even are.
>>2563179We could have developed a better world. The british never actually brought anything of value to anyone else.
>>2563181Good to hear advice that is literally identical to pro-imperalists.
>>2563234Please respond to what I am saying!!!!!
>>2563147They aren’t going to listen to you
Holy hell just ignore the fucking manchildren
>>2563217Because it’s race war nonsense that would could have been justifiably argued 50 or 60 years ago. Post civil-rights integrated many colonized people into the bourgeoisie. Rihanna runs child sweatshops, there’s Native American tribes that run casinos and ride around in stretch hummers. So yes there are black and natives that do profit off imperialism, most of them don’t and that goes for white people too. The issue is capitalism and the rebuilding the American identity in a post imperial, post capitalist nation. Which would benefit all Americans and we can stop having this mass mental break down over identity.
>>2562803>the short term benefits aren't worth the planet getting destroyed and everyone hating usAmerica's enemies worship America and legitimize themselves by pointing out similar to America they are.
zohran status?
>>2563169
Building red army is the only thing that works. American never even tried to build red army so they are fascist
>>2562592>They don't achieve things>Literally become mayor of the largest city in the worldAlso
>If you dont join my larp you are literally evil child rapist jeffrey epstein human traffickerMan, do you people get why i say that you guys have nothing to you except appeal to morality? How is this any different than some unhinged street preacher condemning non-Christians to hellfire and saying that all liberals are secretly child eating abortion demons? That's not going to attract anyone to the movement
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