How the fuck is the latest video generating zero discourse ITT?
Have I missed the exodus?? Where'd y'all go?!?
>>2865251I'm not part of this club per se since this thread moves too slowly but I popped in because Google fed me that video.
The answer to your question has nothing to do with the video. Frankly I think cybercommunism is too hopeful for /leftypol/because technology may be on the cusp of enabling it to actually happen. It's easier to just ignore it and doompost about how everything will only get worse and why bother trying. This place is full of grumbling, seething Cold Warriors who refuse to move on.
>>2865251kinda feels like nothing is happening in the sphere
>>2865688as opposed to… where? what are you even saying? did you even see the damn video?
>>2867597>9:34uh oh does Dickblast have a loicense for expressing support for Palestine Action?
also that facial expression
someone ITT with a yt acc
for the love of labor link it to him:
>>2869663>>2869669>>2867124<Socialist Planning in the Era of Climate Change<David Zachariah and Tomas HärdinTwo questions which may look a bit self-contradictory:
Page 12:
<For final orders, the shadow price per GWh of electrical power supply is the additional amount of worker-hours required to increase the order by one unit.What's a unit? When not talking about an object like a bicycle, how a unit is set can be quite arbitrary. Best examples for this arbitrariness are water and electricity… which are exactly the examples the authors use! Wouldn't it make more sense to set the unit in a way related to what we are trying to do, like 1 % of the plan-target quantity of the thing in question?
Page 13
<…the resource constraints for the final demand are rebalanced, such that the sum of percentage deviations from the goals (10 GWh, 30 kilotonnes, and so on) is minimized.What about goal
similarity? Shouldn't similar goals be grouped together and treated together as potentially compensating for each other's shortcomings to a stronger degree than with dissimilar goals?
And another thing, page 15
<…when there is only a single cement or insulin producer. If left unchecked, such an enterprise could squander labor and hoard resources. It is therefore advisable to assign the sectoral investment boards the task of investing in parallel capacities for cement or insulin productionVery unimaginative to propose dealing with the social issue of concentration of power with the technical approach of building up parallel capacities. As if that wasn't squandering labor when there are regulation tools available. Let's analytically separate people and machinery of an enterprise: If the issue is that a group of people gains power through being tiny, look for ways to reduce that power. If we can significantly expand the group of people skilled for these tasks without building up facilities elsewhere, we can just do that. The group already working there doesn't have the monopoly on who else gets hired there, I would hope. We can set higher transparency standards. More inspections. And also: Look into MAP (Market Anti-Inflation Plan) by David Colander and Abba Lerner, a proposal to treat price-raising as pollution and to implement trading pollution permits for that.
(Nitpick: I think it's a mistake to engage at all, however critically, with Ackerman, Grünberg, Sunkara. These are all very stupid people. I also have no use for Hickel and his bizarre quasi-physical metrics to "measure" third-world exploitation.) Every economy is already solving the distribution problem without needing a big red computer
The problem has always been political organization and class struggle, not calculation
Theredore cybernetics is pointless and is nothing but a tech-fetish.
QED
>>2870401every modern economical apparatus use computers what is this ragebait
>>2566230If he really believes in it then he can start giving away his money for charity and stuff like that.
No? Oh, mmkay.
>>2870122>What's a unit?it says GWh right there. it probably doesn't matter what units are used. 1000 hours per GWh = 1 hour per MWh
>>2869702I tried replying but it's not showing up when I refresh
>>2870410Yeah, it means there's no cybernetics "problem", it's just excel. Nobody needs " cyberneticists" or "implementing cybernetics"
Economic planning is a solved problem and the task of socialism is not to simulate the law of value on a computer
>>2870401>Every economy is already solving the distribution problemWhat planet are you from fellow leftychud?
>>2870969Every economy is already planned top down, this isn't the gilded age
It's funny how people will bring this up as an argument for the viability of central planning not realizing it means that "cybernetics" as a field is already pointless.
It's just a fantasy of delegating politics and class struggle to computers
>>2870945>Economic planning is a solved problem and the task of socialism is not to simulate the law of value on a computerhave you ready any actual theory? because if you did you'd know the law of values becomes
more important after the seizure of power, not less. you cannot value aufheben without grasping it firmly first. you may believe it is possible, but that you have only grasped the issue loosely, and not firmly
>>2870991you can't "delegate" things to computers. computers are not political subjects
>>2870544>it says GWh right there.⋮
That post wasn't asking what's
the unit:
>What's a unit? When not talking about an object like a bicycle, how a unit is set can be quite arbitrary. Best examples for this arbitrariness are water and electricity… which are exactly the examples the authors use! Wouldn't it make more sense to set the unit in a way related to what we are trying to do, like 1 % of the plan-target quantity of the thing in question?>>2870945>Economic planning is a solved problemI would imagine most CS students have heard of the Traveling-Salesman problem and the Knapsack problem. I know of no solution guarantees for bigger instances of these because of combinatorial explosion, only heuristics. These problems are of course only two of the sub-problems of logistics. So if you want to show how you do precise planning you actually have to solve a network of combinatorial explosions linked to other combinatorial explosions, and each link is a multiplier. Do you want to show us how you do that?
Research on approximate solutions is ongoing.
>>2871619can you express what you mean in terms of a linear program?
in LP, shadow prices are always in terms of small changes in the constraints. if you want to make a large change, which 1% is, then you need to re-solve the program
>>2871633I'm not reading all that shit. but I did a quick search on "plann" and surprise surprise it repeats Cold War lies about planning
>>2871619There exist efficient fast heuristic algos for the traveling salesman
Already employed in all relevant fields
If you mean solving an np hard problem mathematically, then quit larping, you won't be overcominh the foundations of modern math and computation lil bro
>>2871659every single mention of planning
>>2871769A majority of them are talking about fucking capitalist corporations retard so you dont know what you are fucking talking about
This thread is pointless because in a few years AI will get good enough to just run society in general, and from there it's not far to AGI
>>2871619>I know of no solution guarantees for bigger instances of these because of combinatorial explosion, only heuristics.>Research on approximate solutions is ongoing.>>2871661>There exist efficient fast heuristic algos>If you mean solving an np hard problem mathematically, then quit larpingWhy are half the comments here by people who can't read (or is it all the same guy)?
>>2873946Do you think the problem with all hitherto economies, including socialist ones, was that there were not even fasterer traveling salesman algorithms?
>>2867864he said a few threads ago he got some kind of surgery that affected his ability to speak. dude is getting old. it is not fun to be that age. basically your mind starts going and life is one long doctors appointment
>>2870401"Cybernetics is the science of effective organization " Stafford Beer
Childhood is beliving in planning, adulthood is embracing the market.
What I meant by market is a market socialist one, not capitalistic one.
>>2878380When you get older, kid, you will realize that planning is (and was) a failure, and the market (although imperfect) is far better for society.
Since Cockshott thinks that Althusser's ideas have become mystified in the anglosphere due to poor translations, are there any modern, better translations of him? I know Cock does not think highly of Althusser but given that he has felt the need to single him out, it makes me think that maybe there is something to it. He seems to have had an influence on Cockshott's conception of HistMat atleast.
Also whats the relation of Guattari and Deleuze to cybernetics? Is there anything worthwhile to be gained from reading them?
>>2882173>I know Cock does not think highly of AlthusserHow so? I thought he agreed with him on the whole epistemological break thing.
>>2882173cockshott actually is pretty pro althusser especially the late althusser
Is Cockshott still working on a book on stochastic materialism or have I missed something?
>>2897688>2024Whoops. Is it any good?
>>2898897I have just started reading it and I would say it’s somewhat academic, cockshotts main co author is a Macedonian who knows Ancient Greek pretty well.
This is a book on academic philosophy and ontology somewhat just be prepared for it not to be a page turner
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