>>2568465Being an American is funny, I've dated both Chinese and Jewish women come to think of it. Melting pot and etc.
>>2568462>new superpower>as arrogant as the old superpowerhooray
>>2568465>China is Jew-proof.porky detected.
Jews were foundational to the revolution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Epstein >>2568575fake news. just divorce your husband, join an org in the city with exchange students and be a smooth sex pest.
>>2568568>Israel EpsteinSometimes two wrongs make a right
>>2568558>tor node>china already has 800 military bases and is couping everyone everywhere all the timepost wall socket burger
>>2568568a magazine editor who also got locked up by mao for five years and wasn't even in china during the the last half of the 1940s isn't foundational. now if you're talking about marx then you're right
>>2568861moffin just kill yourself
>>2568861China doesn’t owe Arabs fucking shit. Fuck your crypto-trot nonsense
>>2568898arabs literally still use the roman salute and glorify hitler what the fuck are you talking about ?
>>2569101>arabs god i love when i can hand wave tens of different nations and cultures under one racist category ('arab')
makes all the fuckery in my head easier to handle
muh ayrabs
You trots can make up your BS about how all AES are degenerated totalitarian states that need to be destroyed by the NED, I'll continue to have faith in the PRC and the Chinese masses.
>>2568893no, don't you understand, giving african countries 0% interest "loans" and then forgiving those loans specifically to bail them out of their IMF debt, while building them hospitals and schools, is the same as the european empires enslaving and christianizing them, or the american empire installing compradors through CIA coups
>>2569101>>2568898>>2568879two ultras having a false flag fake conversation where one of them pretends to be an arab-hating "dengoid" caricature
Is judeobolshevism real yet? Total Adolf Hitler victory, antidengist leftists are hardly distinguishable from 1930s fascists.
Antidengism is le worst product of dengism. Because dengism is a nefarious subversive thing which is also democratic…
>>2568462>based chinese commie girl will pet my donkey and guide meAwesome
>>2568898How’s your internationalism going? Because I have seen 0 leftcom presence anywhere outside niche internet spaces like this
Lol, those guys aren't leftcom, real leftcoms critically support dengists
>>2569712Idk what he is if not leftcom
Was the One Child Policy a good thing? My instinct is yes but I need more evidence
>>2569745Well let's note that China's fertility was already on the decline before one-child policy. Also contrary to popular belief, only about 35% of the population were subject to the original restriction. For instance, rural parents were soon allowed to have a second child if the first was a daughter and there were numerous exceptions over time including for ethnic minorities and those living in remote areas.
The one child policy also wasn't perfectly policed, bear in mind China started issuing IDs for its people in the 90s.
Hence you have articles like these
https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/01/asia/china-missing-girls>But in a new study, researchers suggest that around 25 million of these girls aren’t actually missing, but went unreported at birth – only appearing on government censuses at a later stage in their lives.>“Most people are using a demographic explanation to say that abortion or infanticide are the reasons (these girls) don’t show up in the census and that they don’t exist,” said John Kennedy, study co-author and political science professor at Kansas University.>When China implemented the one-child policy in 1979, the government expected local family planning officials to enforce it. However, implementing the rule proved harder in villages, where officials were also members of the community.>Kennedy – who spent long research stints in rural China – discovered that in many cases, village officials turned a blind eye to children born outside the one-child policy. They’d let them go unreported in order to maintain good relations with the villagers.>Kennedy said that by the mid-1980s, the Chinese government relaxed one-child policy rules in rural areas, allowing villagers to have a second child if the first was a girl. Yet in the 1990s, Kennedy discovered that lax policy enforcement had allowed families in rural areas to bypass the policy.With that being said, a lower population rate likely was a boon for economic development during their rise because of less mouths to feed, less resources to consume and more resources & attention devoted to a child. Check out the paper "Do High Birth Rates Hamper Economic Growth?" (Review of Economics & Statistics, MIT Press, 2007)
>The research, spanning two decades from 1978 to 1998 and covering 28 Chinese provinces, found that the lower the birth rate, the faster the economic growth. The annual growth rate of the real per capital income during this period was as high as 8.1 percent. At the same time, the birth rate was very low—at only 2 percent.>Lower fertility leads to a higher level of schooling per child.>Lower fertility increases parental labor supply.>Lower fertility may facilitate parental migration, thus enabling the reallocation of the labor force from rural to urban areas. >>2569767Another interesting thing is that it may have structurally led to more gender equality especially in urban areas. Urban families under strict one-child rules frequently had just one daughter, and because she was the only child, parents would invest heavily in her education. She would also inherit more resources and receive opportunities that would traditionally go to sons.
There was an article publish a couple years ago by Pallayi Aiyar, an Indian woman, titled, "I Would Rather Be Born A Woman In China Than India." It's about her experience living in China between 2002 and 2009 and some of the difference in gender relations she obeserved between the two countries:
>I was unprepared for the sheer physicality of women in China that I immediately noticed upon arriving in Beijing in the summer of 2002.>Chinese women inhabited public spaces in a way that was impossible in most parts of India. They didn’t walk as though folding themselves inward to be invisible to passing men. They didn’t avoid eye contact. They rang their bicycle bells loudly. Sometimes they loitered.>It was more likely for me to spot a woman taxi or bus driver in Beijing than it had been in London or Los Angeles, for example. At the airport, men were often frisked, with businesslike indifference, by female security guards.>The female airport security guards leaped out at me as a particularly compelling comparison with India, where airports featured women-only queues that led to curtained-off boxes where they were patted down by female officers. >>2569767>no 25 million girls? MUST HAVE BEEN A SECRET GENOCIDE! Here are my estimations how it's actually 100 millions dead, actually, 25 millions is the bare minimum of losses under communism!Every fucking time
>>2568879Yeah. China would rather kill heckin arabs than cut off trade with the modern nazi. We get it.
>>2569806Watch as the global game unfolds, the outcome was assured as soon as the first factories rose in Shenzhen.
>>2569898Uncritical support
Bro holy fuck the Chinese just mentioned the Enemy States Clause on twitter
I've posted this Clause before a few times. It lets former fascist states be attacked without authorization from the UN security council. Straight up threatening Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Enemy_State_Clausehttps://xcancel.com/ChnEmbassy_jp/status/1991689268784410624Is China truly socialistic or they just pay lip service?
>>2570177Lip service to the rural population. Urban population will keep growing and in a few years there will be a second wave of liberal economic reforms and the workers in the cities won't care.
I don’t get the freak out right now regarding China. All they did was not vote for the shitty resolution. Are you going to rip into Guyana and Sierra Leone for voting FOR the resolution?
>>2570184So the whole socialism spiel of China is not that real then?
>>2570198china is socialist, and the best hope for socialism in the world
>>2570191china's position.
>On November 17, the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) adopted Resolution 2803 (2025), which sets out proposed post-war arrangements for the Palestinian territory of Gaza. The resolution was adopted with 13 votes in favour and no votes against. China and Russia abstained from the vote. As permanent members of the Security Council, a negative vote by either country would have vetoed the resolution.
>Following the vote, China’s UN Ambassador Fu Cong made an explanatory statement. He began by stating that:
>“Gaza, brutalised by two years of war, is a land of ruins in dire need of rebuilding. Over two million people continue to live in deprivation and struggle in displacement. China supports the Security Council in taking all necessary actions to achieve a lasting ceasefire, relieve the humanitarian disaster, and launch post-war reconstruction to rekindle the hope of peace and development for the people in Gaza.”
>However, he added: “Regrettably, the draft resolution that was just voted on is lacking in many respects and is deeply worrisome” and went on to set out four points in this regard:
>The draft resolution is vague and unclear on many critical elements. The penholder requests the Council to authorise the establishment of a Board of Peace and international stabilisation force, which will play a key role in the post-war governance in Gaza. It should have explained in details their structure, composition, terms of reference, and criteria of participation, among others… However, the draft resolution contains skimpy details on these critical elements.The draft resolution does not demonstrate the fundamental principle of Palestinians governing Palestine. Gaza belongs to the Palestinian people, not to anyone else. Any post-war arrangements must respect the will of the Palestinian people… The draft resolution outlines post-war governance arrangements for Gaza, but it seems that Palestine is barely visible in it, and the Palestinian sovereignty and ownership are not fully reflected.
>The draft resolution does not ensure the effective participation of the UN and its Security Council… The UN has ample experience and capacities in post-conflict recovery and economic reconstruction and should therefore play a vital role in Gaza’s post-war governance. However, no such arrangement is made in the draft resolution. >The draft resolution is not a product of full consultations among Council members. Less than two weeks after introducing the draft resolution, the penholder rushed the Council into making a critical decision on the future and destiny of Gaza. Council members responsibly engaged in the consultations, raising a lot of constructive questions and suggestions, but most of them were not taken on board.>However: “Notwithstanding the above-mentioned many issues in the draft resolution and China’s major concerns about it, considering the fragile and severe situation in Gaza, the imperative of maintaining the ceasefire, and the positions of the regional countries and Palestine, China abstained in the vote. It must also be noted that our concerns and worries remain… The Palestinian question lies at the heart of the Middle East issues. It is a matter about international equity and justice… China has always firmly supported the just cause of the Palestinian people in restoring their legitimate national rights. We stand ready to work with the international community to make unremitting efforts for a comprehensive, just, and lasting solution to the Palestinian question.”
>China’s failure to exercise its veto on this occasion has understandably disappointed many in the Palestinian solidarity movement internationally.
>However, as Fu Cong intimates above, however reluctantly, the resolution and the plan it reflects had the support of numerous important Arab and Islamic countries, including Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Qatar, Egypt, Jordan, the State of Palestine, Türkiye, Pakistan and Indonesia. Whatever criticisms might be levelled at the governments of these countries (and there are doubtless many), China, or any other socialist country, has to deal with the governments that actually exist, not those that we might wish existed. It should further be noted that four Muslim or majority Muslim states currently serve as non-permanent UNSC members, namely Algeria (arguably the only Arab country still generally adhering to anti-imperialist, independent positions in terms of its internationally recognised government), Pakistan, Somalia and Sierra Leone. All of them voted in favour of the resolution. For China, or Russia, to have exercised the veto would only have weakened their position vis-à-vis the Arab and Islamic nations and correspondingly further strengthened that of the United States. For 70 years since the Asian-African Conference in Bandung, China has worked tirelessly to build and maintain a global united front of newly independent and developing countries, despite the painful and difficult compromises this sometimes entails. Moreover, a Chinese or Russian veto on this occasion would have done nothing to materially deter the United States or Israel from proceeding with their plans. It would simply have removed even the most basic level of international oversight, constraint and accountability.https://socialistchina.org/2025/11/19/china-explains-its-abstention-in-un-gaza-vote/ >>2570184rural is more pro-cpc than the city dwellers according to harvard studies because they're seeing more rapid transformation in recent times.
>The responses from survey participants in rural areas, however, surprised the researchers, particularly over time. “We did not anticipate how quickly both low-income citizens and people from less-developed regions in China closed the satisfaction gap with high-income citizens and people from the coastal areas,” Cunningham added.>The surveys found that rural residents, generally poorer than those in cities, had more optimistic attitudes about inequality than their wealthier urban counterparts. The team’s analysis ties the closing of this satisfaction gap between rich and poor, as well as coastal and hinterland populations, to several policies including local budget spent on healthcare, welfare and education, and paved roads per capita.while, the export-oriented manufactruing model that prevailed in the 90s and 2000s resulted in prosperity in key export urban regions like the Pearl River and Yangtze River deltas, there's been a post-GFC shift to domestic housing and infrastracture which started to spread development more equitably to the interior of the country outside the coast export process regions.
china's regional disparity has been shrinking for the past two decades due to targeted poverty alleviation initiatives.
fujian was the only coastal province among the top 10 fastest growing the past decade but no coastal province was in the top 10 in the past two decades. from 2010 - 2023, rural disposable income/capita 4xed, while urban disposable income/capita roughly 2.5xed. and it's not just income, world bank paper shows how “in-kind” health & education transfers are a major form of socioeconomic redistribution in China as well
another study shows the inequality gap between educational outcomes in rural and ruban areas is shrinking.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10877417/the inequality gap in health outcomes between rural and urban areas is narrowing as well
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9566669/ Facts:
1. If China simply declared that it will not sell anything to Israel, all that would achieve is that intermediary countries would step in and launder Chinese exports through their own economies. There are many, many countries in the Middle East and along the coast of the Mediterranian Sea that would be ready to do this. The EU tried the same against Russia and spectularly failed. Israel might face increasing import costs across its economy because of all the middlemen, but it won't collapse, especially if US increases its ever-increasing support of Israel to counter these effects.
2. Continuing the EU-Russia sanctions analogy, there is a certain difference between Chinese and Russian exports. China excels in industrial production, something that can be theoretically done anywhere when looking at a particular product, unlike hydrocarbons which only some countries possess in sufficient quantities for export, or even just for fulfilling domestic demand. What makes China the best is that it can manufacture individual goods at a reasonable cost because every other industrial good is also produced there in that single country, and vertical integration pushes down their costs. Therefore a theoretical Chinese sanction against Israel could also lead to a wave of import substition policies to satisfy Israeli demand among countries that are subservient towards the US and Israel. While import costs would also increase for Israel, on the long term this would help and not hurt Israel, because it and its allies would become insulated from Chinese economic pressure. It would also make secondary sanctions against countries supporting Israel ineffective. To be fair, this scenario is kind of unlikely because even the US is failing at decoupling from China, but it shows how hard is it to sanction a country in practice and it could work to a limited extent, possibly having the opposite effect on Israel's strength than what China could hope to achieve.
3. The only realistic way to sanction Israel, or any country really, would be to blockade its land borders and seaports. This would mean a military action Israel. Israel would obviously go to war to break the siege and they might even get a taste of what they themselves were doing in Gaza. The problem is that China's military capabilities, as strong as they are, are not geared towards controlling the chokepoints of global trade and acting as the world police. Only an imperialist power would develop such capabilities, LIKE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Think about it. China would need to send a naval fleet from the SCS, through SEA, sailing through the Indian Ocean next to India, and then get past all the US allies and U military bases in the Arab Peninsula. The fleet wouldn't just have to sail somewhat near them like India, it would also have to get past the narrow Red Sea while not getting decimated by Egypt, Saudi Arabia and US forces. I also don't know how would China enforce a blockade against Israel on their land borders. I guess they would need to land their troops somewhere in the Sinai peninsula and in Syria or Lebanon. Both the naval and land blockade would be near impossible because Chinese ships would have nowhere to refuel and rest along the route from the SCS to the coast of Israel. It also wouldn't have any missile capabilities beyond the ones it can launch directly from China to protect its fleet and marines and destroy the enemy fleet and whatever military targets inside Israel. The main mission of the PLA is to retake Taiwan and fight off the navies of the US and its regional allies. In fact, if the PLAN ever attempted sail towards the Middle East to fight Israel, the first confrontation would break out right in the SCS. The US would definitely interpret it as the start of the invasion/blockade of Taiwan. And to be fair, it would be much easier to for the Chinese government to also claim that they are moving to retake Taiwan. After all this is what they have been preparing their own population for. The only reason why the US would allow safe passage to China in the SCS to sail to the Mediterranian is because it would probably turn out to be a suicide mission. After that Taiwan would have better chances against the PRC. So even China wanted to conduct a military adventure in the Middle East, they would have to defeat East Asian NATO first. Then later any remaining allies in SEA, the Indian Ocean, and realistically if they want to win the Middle East. This basically means defeating US forces literally everywhere outside the Americas and Europe.
4. If there is anyone at all to blame, it's the Muslim world. Turkey alone has a stronger military than Israel. Egypt's military is to close to as strong as that of Israel. Together they control two of the three entrances to the Mediterranean Sea. Their coastlines are very close to Israel. Pulling off a naval blockade against it would be cakewalk to them. Turkey now also has the Syrian government as its ally. It also has relatively self-sufficient economy despite being embedded in Western alliances and a large, mounainous territory that makes military installations easy to hide and invasion against Turkey torturous due to its suitability for guerilla warfare. Furthermore, there is no reason to think that if there was an all-out war against Israel, Hezbollah (or some other Lebanese Shia group) wouldn't resurface and join the assault. This way, Israel could be attacked from any direction other than Jordan, which is a weak and irrelevant country that would fold very quickly if the balance of power drastically changed in the Middle East. Turkey and Egypt could alone destroy Israel in a week or a month if they decided so, if not for the Samson doctrine and the US military. Even if Israel has nukes, a protracted blockade would quickly lead to some kind of capitulation from Israel. The latter brings us back to my point, that it's the Muslims' own fault that they subservient to the US and Israel, not China's.
>>2570202For real or you're just shitting of me?
>>2570234China is socialist. In Stalin's last work, he was also shitting on theorycels who refused to acknowledge that USSR had a market economy
>>2570238So the Ultra-Leftcels are in the wrong?
>>2570233 (me)
*Then later any remaining allies in SEA, the Indian Ocean, and realistically, if they want to win against Israel, in the Middle East
>>2570234no thaty guy is real claiming that china has reached communism for the past year now.
>>2570047China should just use nuclear weapons to finally finish what the Yuans failed to do
>>2570047I don't keep up with news form the region, what did Japan do to warrant this? lmao
>>2570387they said theyd defend taiwan in case of china invading
>>2570323日本这种畸形变态的种族不应该存在在这个世界上。美国当年原子弹应该把日本彻底移平。积极备战，保卫祖国！核平日本！
>>2570483That and there is the fact that the Japanese PM that was just elected is a complete nutcase NATO-fascist who denies warcrimes even more aggressivley than the average Japanese politician (which is a high fucking bar). So I honestly think this is China posturing and signalling to Japan that electing someone who rabbidly hates China will only make the Chinese more steadfast.
Youth unemployment status?
>>2570750lower than sweden
>>2570758How is it so high though and what is China doing to solve it? Genuine question.
>>2570770fake capitalist news. The youth of China is not unemployed. There is no systemic unemployment in China.
>>2570770China is facing a youth employment problem because the number of its college graduates has been growing at a faster rate than its economy, a result of years' focus on education system. In Beijing, more than half the population has a college degree. Shanghai just crossed 40% for the first time. College grads went from 34% of the 24 year old age cohort in 2017 to 63% in 2023, a 28% increase. As the share of middle to high tech sectors becomes a more prominent part of their GDP, this should start leveling out.
On the other hand, this is a sign of China's new prosperity. China's urban youth unemployment is at 17%. Sweden's youth unemployment is at 24% but no one is talking about a collapse in Sweden. In 2000, you think Chinese youths would be allowed to play video games while they looked for a prestigious, high paying, good hours, cool peoples jobs? Every single restaurant in Beijing has a help wanted sign outside. But people think, correctly, that they have better choices. They can afford to take their time to find a job. No student loans and low cost of living, youth take their dandy ole time, even some of them taking a year off to "work on their music." By the way, unemployment in the next age bracket up, 25-30 year olds is 6%.
>>2569898Western fanbases of Chinese gacha games will form a key component in the anti-war coalition.
>>2570047Based. Push them around for electing fascists
>>2569712Honestly though, China and Vietnam are products of “third worldism” and their revolution was successful. Despite this, “third worldists” in the west attack them constantly.
>>2570839>third worldists attacking vietnamonly the
REAL ones, most don't. still a better country to support than russia for example
>>2569767>>2569795Thank you for the data my friend. I've been researching and it's interesting that most of the more outlandish claims about the OCP (especially regarding forced abortions and sterilizations) seem to come from rabid American pro-life organizations and are then uncritically repeated by ostensibly pro-choice liberals because they happen to serve as propaganda fodder against the PRC.
>>2570847>geopoliticsah yes, the bourgeois western pseudoscience that the great soviet encyclopedia explicitly linked to nazism and neo-nazism
>>2543095>too vaguei completely agree, that particular example was too lazy on my part. my bad, i should've omitted the second sentence entirely
>>2570856I don't think it's embracing bourgeois pseudoscience to be against American hegemony, I think it's closer to what Stalin is saying in that picture I posted, but I will refrain from using the word geopolitics in the future if it really has that kind of connotation. Personally I've never had the authority of the Great Soviet Encyclopedia appealed to in a conversation purely on the basis of my using the word geopolitics. Does this make Ben Norton of Geopolitical Economy Report a "neo nazi?"
>>2570191What's interesting to me is how Pakistan voted for it - I believe under the belief that Pakistani troops would be allowed into Gaza as peacekeepers, IDK how they're deluded enough to think Israel would allow that.
>>2570865Like, they've already denied entry to the Turks, even the ones with construction equipment that were trying to retrieve *Israeli bodies*. Is it because Pakistan is compromised now that Imran Khan is deposed? I don't know anything about Paki politics
>>2570791>>2570791You are wrong. China is not facing a youth employment problem. Communist China stopped counting students as unemployed, so your answer is fundamentally wrong. To compare China to Sweden is wrong because Sweden is nation of parasites sustained by third world exploitation.
>China is facing a youth employment problem because the number of its college graduates has been growing at a faster rate than its economy,This is bold assumption. It is wrong because you are essentially saying the Chinese are too smart for their own good. You concede everything to the imperialist. China for first time in history has population where majority is educated. This is resounding achievement but you make this a bad thing because you are dumb imperialist
>>2570875Are you the "Rule Me China Movement" guy?
>>2570875your posts would be so much higher quality if you included more arguments and fewer personal attacks. you always sound like you're putting someone on trial and it's so cringe and larpy. just educate people, man.
>>2570882Sir he is trolling
>>2570884trolling is for children in game lobbies. he should grow up.
>>2570864>I think it's closer to what Stalin is saying in that picture I postedhis reasoning is based in dialectical materialism, the concrete analysis of historical conditions occuring at the moment
the reasoning of "geopolitics" is based in distorted interpretations of physical and economic geography and often appeals to ages-old national sensibilities, such as a conquest war of the distant past that occurred on the same soil being relevant today to justify military aggression of tomorrow
>Does this make Ben Norton of Geopolitical Economy Report a "neo nazi?"not at all, but i would suspect someone that uses "geopolitics" to explain their reasoning to have somewhat faulty reasoning, since the entire "science" is based on false, metaphysical premises
man I have been reading
https://gitee.com/openharmony/docs/blob/master/en/application-dev/quick-start/start-with-ets-stage.md and I'm seriously considering porting the declarative ui thingy (or a subset of it) to wayland and x11. it's so much better than the new android ui api where they force you to use the sdk designer because they have completely given up on textual representation
>>2570211>rural is more pro-cpc than the city dwellers according to harvard studies because they're seeing more rapid transformation in recent times.Yeah, basic 19th century capitalist development with 21st century moral ideas. Good. But not socialism. And inevitable to fall into neoliberalism.
>>2570759Yeah, I think any sane Japanese person would see what she did as a LARP. Japan posing a serious threat to China? Like come on dude lmao
>>2571320It's much quicker to build a bunch of houses than one single apartment complex. Maybe time was of essence idk.
>>2571320Treatlerism is rising in the East. It's Over.
>>2571320It's a huge country and some parts are experimenting with different styles. Jason posted a single neighborhood layout that's extremely uncommon in China. Here's a video of another part of Zhejiang. Rural places like this don't have the population density to justify building towering apartment buildings.
By the way, there are a lot videos on her channel where she bikes through different rural parts of China
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TWW3KuotK4 >>257104619th century capitalist development was an era of laisse-faire liberalism, liberal democracy where capitalists can buy elections, and the commanding heights of the economy were overwhelmingly privately owned. it was also based on imperial power and the expropriation of wealth from the global south.
in china, the cpc monopolizes the commanding heights of the economy including sectors like energy, telecommunications, utilities, heavy industry, and most importantly, banking and finance. china's major banks are state owned and these "policy banks" that do not care about profit and will take reasonable losses to to achieve social ends with internal cpc committees guiding major decisions based on five year plans. 98% of finance is state-controlled in china. china recently implemented a salary cap for employees at state owned financial institutions. 18 out of top 20 firms are state owned and china also has golden shares in large private companies that gives the state special voting rights or board influence. deng also never liberalized the the superstructure as china has a leninist state system where the cpc monopolizes political power and news organizations are all state owned.
the cities developing first is a structural reality as the same happened in the USSR. the task of industrializing and building the critical infrastructure for modern healthcare, education, roads, highways, mass transit, energy grids, etc for 1.4 billion people is an immense task considering they were a technologically backward majority agrarian economy just 40 years ago. last year, over half of electricity demand growth came from china. china is industrializing faster than all other countries combined. no other country has urbanized at that scale and speed in such a rapid period. socialism is a transitionary stage headed by a dotp who aims to advance the productive forces as rapidly as possible. that's classical marxism.
>>2571320They appear to be large townhouses that I would guess house 4-6 families based on the size so not as bad as single family houses
>>2571372>mini farm in every yard instead of useless lawnI coomed
>>2571566did you mean to post this in /usapol/
>>2570856>>2570908>ah yes, the bourgeois western pseudoscience you are conflating geopolitics as the geographical determinism that justifies european colonialism and the modern usage as a synonym for international relations. almost no one who uses the word believes the first thing
if you also uphold dialectical materialism you should probably not be reinforcing propagandizing against it. that very conflation is currently used by the ultraleft to condemn aes as bourgeois, saying that considering material conditions is doing "geopolitics" and is bad
>>2570791>They can afford to take their time to find a job. No student loans and low cost of living, youth take their dandy ole time, even some of them taking a year off to "work on their music." amazing, imagine all the cultural production this allows. And all the porn made without profit motive! truly the mark of a civilized society
>>2570856you're retarded because the definition linked is obviously not the definition of the word today, which is way more about the global diplomatic and power relations between states and alliances, its really all just materialism and dialectic applied to the international states relations (where ofc geography still has its place)
and yes geopolitics have been used as an imperialist tool, biology and genetics was also used by nazis as justification in a similar way, it does not mean someone using biology and genetics is automatically a nazi (although if someone start doing pol tier phrenology and race science, you can dismiss them as reactionary retard, same as if someone start talking about clash of civilization and living space)
>>2571566>high end boutique I don’t see the problem
>>2570865fucking algeria voted for it, and palestinian authority was for it
ofc it should have been refused, but this cant come unilaterally from the other side of the world by the power the least involved in all this. If none of the arab state, even the least pro US ones, can even abstain, china is prolly wise to abstain.
>>2571046>basic 19th century capitalist development just shut the fuck up you ignorant moron, you seem to have no idea what the 19th century was like
>>2571566He took back for the thirld world what was created in the third world.
>>2571380>19th century capitalist development was an era of laisse-faire liberalism, liberal democracy where capitalists can buy elections, and the commanding heights of the economy were overwhelmingly privately owned. it was also based on imperial power and the expropriation of wealth from the global south. no it wasnt. While i agree chinas economy system is different from 19th century economic systems, 19th century economic systems werent laisse-faire. The german and japanese empires had very state interventionist economic systems. Ones where the commanding height corporations had a quasi soe relationship with the government.
>>2571676He stole like $30 of shit which was being sold for thousands, the price he got it at was closer to what the price should have been
>>2571758So protectionism good when used as a long term policy over decades, since early 20th century is when America rose to power
>>2571766yes, a lot of countries (including usa) that had massive economic development used protectionism
>>2571756the problem is that britain was the global hegemon and leading capitalist power so they set the bsaic template of laisse-faire western capitalism in the 19th century for a lot of other countries. they were the world's leading free trade and free market advocate, had weak regulation, almost no industrial policy and other countries were closer to their template rather than germany and japan. state intervention in germany and japan also came late, were limited to certain sectors, and served privately owned firms. the century was also tied together by imperialist extractions as european powers privatized land, mines, plantations, and railways in colonies, and that reinforced the dominance of private capital worldwide. latin america became strongly laissez-faire as a result. settler colonies like canada, australia, new zealand, south africa became an extention of britain's capitalism. some exceptions existed, but the dominant logic of the century was largely liberal, market-oriented, laissez-faire, and private-property-based. no other state came close to the cpc's model.
>>2571758having high tariffs isn't the same as having non-laisse-faire capitalism. the U.S. used high tariffs to protect industry, but internally it had very weak economic regulation, almost non existent antitrust laws, minimal fiscal capacity and very strong private property rights. its capitalism remained mostly laissez-faire minus tariffs. again, there were virtually no industrial subsidies, no industrial planning, no state-owned enterprises. the factories, banks, railraods, mines, steel, were owned by private capital. tariffs were almost the entire economic policy tool of the federal government at the time but the federal government was tiny. it was the only major state intervention because the government had no other functions, everything else was laissez-faire. U.S. industrialization actually began before List was influential and they only adopted the protectionist part of his philosophy, not his broader state led development strategy.
>>2571876you make a bunch of fair and excellent points. I concede
>>2571672>the definition linked is obviously not the definition of the word today, which is way more about the global diplomatic and power relations between states and alliancesit's true that "geopolitics" does talk about global diplomatic and power relations, the question is the method used
>its really all just materialism and dialectic applied to the international states relations i don't get why you'd need another term for that, and i especially don't get it why you would need to somehow retroactively change the definition of one tainted by association with neo-nazis and dugin? (one of his books is titled "the foundations of geopolitics")
>biology and genetics was also used by nazis as justification in a similar waymostly to synthesize and enforce
eugenics, and while not everyone that claims eugenics is automatically a nazi it's still an inherently reactionary pseudoscience easily used to justify atrocities
>>2571917>tail wags the dog idealist nazi shit but chineseoh joy.
>>2572054>the question is the method usedbut thats not what was your point, your point was it was reactionary to use "geopolitics" because of the word usage in the 20th century and it was pseudo science, which is obviously bullshit
>i don't get why you'd need another term for that<why would you need this "biology" term, its just science!
>somehow retroactively change the definition you dont seem to understand linguistic either
>mostly to synthesize and enforce eugenicsnobody dispute that
>inherently reactionary pseudoscience Eugenics is not a "science", its policies, a political project. And its reactionary (and historically used pseudosciences) but you can imagine an eugenic policy rooted in solid science.
>>2571889>not disappearing or deflecting after getting btfo and instead politely concedingyou're a better human than most
>>2571917>The zionists want to control ChinaBiggest retard of all time
>>2571917I wonder what this Chinese individual thinks about Vietnam.
>>2572064>but thats not what was your point, your point was it was reactionary to use "geopolitics" because of the word usage in the 20th centurythe word usage having to do with the method, to describe it
>why would you need this "biology" term, its just science!i sure do love false equivalences too
>Eugenics is not a "science", its policies, a political project.see picrel, it's specifically the
pseudoscience from which the eugenic projects and policies arise
>>2572064>you're a better human than mostI believe the ego is my enemy. Denying an argument just because i dont like it, just hurts me in the long run.
>>2572209all decisions are justifiable, the real is rational. you have to actually get into the details of the concrete conditions and context in which the decision was made. for a moralizing liberal, this is "justification". as if the point of politics is to "sort the good from the bad". reeks of latent christianity
this bitch calls herself a marxist/hegelian but doesn't see the opportunism and class interest behind her OWN behavior of shitting on socialist experiments while sitting in the imperial core.
it's like what marx said of proudhon and faurbach
"thinking that he's soaring above the classes but actually just being a bourgeois"
"not perceiving their subjective acts as objective activity"
A "view from nowhere", if you will. Again, bitch is supposed to be a hegelian.
>>2572286so just more psychosexual obsession with your favorite state, in what way are you actually different from an atlanticist liberal?
so do we know who is gonna move the communism clutch to state socialism?
>>2572209I hate bourgeois "science" so fucking much
>>2572300two more general secretarie
>>2572297psychoanalysis is a mind virus that permanently cripples the mind into thinking in terms of penises
one becomes obsessed with seeking the causes of speech in the mind of the speaker instead of examining the objective conditions. peak idealism
this traces all the way back to nietzsche who invented concepts like "ressentiment" and "slave morality" in order to root thought in the supposed nature of different castes of man
"you think this because you are a slave"
"you think this because you want to hold your dad's penis"
"you think this because you want to suck dick"
>>2572228NTA, I also applaud you for your intellectual courage. It's nice to see once in a while among the hellscape that is the western internet.
>>2572308no, what is a mind virus is obsessing over dead nations and sticking yourself to a lost cause, so answer the question i posed, in what way are you different from an atlanticist liberal, a lost cause confederate, a neo-nazi, or any sort of LARPing loser?
do you people talk about china in this schizo general
>>2572335The fact that people relitigate these events to this day obviously means that they are still relevant to present conditions
You are a liberal
>>2572054>retroactively change the definition of one tainted by association with neo-nazis and duginthat hasn't been the definition for decades and a literal who nobody with no influence doesn't change that. says more about getting definitions from internet poisoning then how people actually use it
but anyway that does help explain why people are shitting their pants about it. dugin is about the last person i think of when i think of geopolitics. lots of people getting mad about a guy they invented in their head, supposed vulgar tankies who only think america bad for no reason, as if principled MLs who critically support russian national liberation care about dugin at all over dollar hegemony and imperialism
Oh boy, Japan just put missiles near Taiwan, I wonder how PRC are discussing this… shit.
>>2572395people still relitigate the fucking roman period, are they relevant to present conditions? in a way sure
>>2572209I love the red archons but unfortunately I'll never get to live in a socialist metal man I'll always be a zek in the guts of the capitalist metal man instead. Oh well at least we can appreciate the Christian archons I guess they once played the part of the red archons but were co-opted to justify the metal man. Many such cases.
>>2572424yes, all discourse about history is discourse about the present
is traditional chinese medicine (acupuncture, qi, homeopathy, and other quackery) on the decline in the prc?
>>2572055>idealistyou don't know what's happening do you?
>>2572785Read William Hinton
>>2572785Not really, no. Homeopathy isn't really a TCM thing though
>>2570255What you guys define as Communism the Chinese define as High-Level Communism. It's the exact same marketing trick the Soviets used, to claim that they achieved a Communist society (primary stage of Communism) while not having achieved its high level manifestation (super abundance, anarchism).
>>2572836no, the cpc, including xi, says they are in the primary (aka first aka preliminary) stage of socialism. professor feng wuzhong of the school of marxism in tsinghua university has a 117 part lecture about it somewhere on youtube. also, the ussr never claimed they achieved a communist society, they said they were building socialism
>>2572875>preliminary) stage of socialismmeans the stage before
>>2572876they use the word primary like 95% of the time in translation but sometimes "社会主义初级阶段" gets translated as preliminary instead of primary even though they intend to mean early stage. but yeah that translation would be wrong
社会主义 - socialism
初级 - initial / primary / early / elementary
阶段 - stage / phase
picrel is from an old readout
>>2572892idk i like china and think they are communist but i think the correct identification would be preliminary socialism. meaning they are capcom - capitalist economy lead by a dictatorship of the proletariat. differentiated from full capitalism by the existence of the dtop. at least in the sense that marx says in gotha the first phase is public ownership and renumeration according to work, and china is not there yet since they are still a developing country, infrastructure still very uneven for their population. or rather it is only just now becoming even. im having trouble searching but i think they intend to begin transition to the first phase in 2035 and be halfway to full communism by 2050. but you are right they do call it the initial stage/primary stage. i think thats fine too, like primary school or priming a pump. i dont think it contradicts marx either because the gotha program was written for germany which was relatively advanced at the time.
Xi called Trump and Trump called Takaichi.
What does this mean for China?
China is imperialist, though
>>2572961I support China imperializing Okinawa
>>2572964>muh supportVoluntarist slop
>>2571833I see, makes sense. Hence why the hegemon must force others into free trade
>>2572973you're voluntarily spamming that buzzword in every thread as a form of trolling
>>2572286View from nowhere is the best term I’ve ever heard for these armchair “communist” moralists
>>2571917>>2572055>>2572289>>2572796zionist regime would collapse immediately if burger reich stopped supporting them. burger reich saved tel aviv from iran earlier this year. zionist regime
lobbies and
influences america, like banderite regime, or saudi regime, or other regime, but worse. but zionist regime does not "control" burger reich. burger reich is just imperialist and sees mutual benefit to aiding zionist regime's genocide.
>>2573025The burger reich ruling class are religious Zionists though, whether Jew or Christian. People like Trump, Hillary or Bush genuinely believe in those insane ideas about how the enemies of Zionism are gog and magog or Amalek or the beast or whatever
>>2573027no they don't believe any of that you massive retard. that stuff is for the idiotic proles, why would any of the people educated, 'from good stock' and in power believe your braindead 'megachurch' shit?
>>2573153rich peope fall for the same retarded nonsense poor people do
>>2573154This is true. Its mostly specialist/managerial class thats immune to bullshit as they have university level educations.
>>2570191They are ultras. Communist China did nothing wrong. To veto would mean to delay aid and reconstruction. To vote yes would mean to dearm Hamas. Hamas said they will not dearm under any pretext and that they fight occupation. China believes in Hamas so China could only abstain to not halt the transition to higher stage of people war
>>2573150i wish there was a deep dive into how AI is supposedly being implemented into these factories. what is accomplished with AI that could not otherwise be accomplished with a sophisticated algorithm? i want examples. industrial processes are really quite simple procedural things. the design of the process might present a challenge and require some artisanry and experience. but once established the process itself is virtually the same forever and running it is routine. an algorithm can be designed that takes into account, for example, even the gradual degradation of machine parts. no AI necessary. just the simplest kind of flowchart 'if x then y' checks.
>>2573401Read
>>2573178If china vetoed then palestinians in gaza would suffer more greatly because aid and reconstruction would be put further off
>>2570882They ARE on trial because they lie. To argue in "good faith" against lies is to lend credibillity to them. The highest form of argumentation and education is to destroy imperialist supposition with truth from fact. This myth of youth unemployment in china is manufactured by imperialists. Youth unemployment data isnt released by Communist China anymore because there is no youth unemployment so entertaining these notions rather than destroying them is reactionary.
>>2573025>don't believe your lying eyesIsrael controls America and everyone knows it.
>>2573419If Israel controls America so do the Saudis. They don't want you to know about the Zio-Salafist conspiracy anon. OoOoOooOOooohh
>>2573027they don't believe in that shit, they just say that schizo shit to get the evangelikkkal retard vote. evangelikkkals are burgerreich yeehawjideen.
>>2573415>>2573401see
>>2568893also, a country that spent a hundred years getting colonized and it’s still dealing with the fallout and somehow rapidly improving lives for 1.4 billion people doesn’t count as helping victims of colonialism. got it.
>>2573174>education make one immune to bullshitthey just fall for different flavors, nazi pseudoscience was very popular among educated people
>>2573401>muh cicipi
>dare call yourself the new first global superpower, and saver of communism they dont call themselves either of those things
>other than just condemning the evil actions against the Palestiniansthats a bar even states in the region with direct involvement dont clear, as much as I'd like them to do more it would be a major break in their international diplomatic and trade strategy and they're simply not really involved in all this shit
>>2573539Butthurt. Literally no one cares what Korean rightoids think
>>2573539I mean they've always had
very high anti-China sentiments as China supports DPRK. In recent years, DPRK gets 95-99% of its imports from China. THAAD Retaliation also made them seethe. And even though Yoon has been impeached, the far right has still been been surging in SK due to neoliberal contradictions worsening each year, and that hates gets redirected at China.
>>2573539the youth being the big % makes sense and is probably regarding THAAD, 2016 china banned everything culturally important to korea such as k-pop, korean movies and only very recently have they slowly started to unban things. doesnt look to be helping, supposedly they floated hate speech laws to protect chinese, but that just enraged people more. cant explain them being favourable to japan, been a lot of butting heads recently between the two
>>2573401What a coincidence that as soon as Japan threatens to invade China and conquer its lost colonies, the western left comes out swinging with their manufacturing consent BS about how "China is fascist", "China is zionist", "China isn't real socialism" just in time to justify the west threatening military aggression.
>>2573832>CHYNA luring the US into war over Okinawabig if true
>>2573841If Japan forces China into war, they should take it as an opportunity to restore the natural borders. Like how when Germany forced itself upon the Slavs, they took it as an opportunity to restore the ancient slavic territory.
>>2573834erm can you please stop being so anti-west, chud? thank you
>>2573401Wait, we suddenly love BE now? I thought he was a turd worldist sexpat in Argentina?
>>2573834Why are we pretending Japan threatened to invade China lmao
>>2573855>turd worldistthe fact you say that says everything about you dirty first worlder, you would rather see children starve to death than loose access to cheap chicken nuggies and whoppies and iphone labubu dubai chocolate you dogcunts profit far too much from first world imperialism than to ever meaningfully distance yourselves from it even though your leaders are pedos who cares as long as the wages are still higher than in the third world and you canstill have some arbys with a whole ass cup of sauce and ten pound of meat, that aside any proof on BE being a sexpat i havent heard anything about that either way may another 10 million 9/11s be upon you
>>2573382no one knows the difference between an algorithm and AI, or wants to know, so a deep dive would have precisely zero uptake
>>2573382Probably being used for the design of those processes you mentioned, in order to rapidly adapt the functioning of the factory to changing conditions.
>>2573975 (Me)
Innovation has become so rapid as to be a regular thing in the modern day so I would assume most of these factories receive constant changes to their product designs and thus require changes to the assembly line.
>On November 15, 1971, headed by then Vice Foreign Minister Qiao Guanhua, the delegation of the People's Republic of China (PRC) made its debut at the United Nations (UN) Assembly Hall. The delegation immediately became the focus of attention at the 26th Session of the UN General Assembly (UNGA). When asked about how he felt, Qiao leaned back and replied with a loud laugh that impressed everyone present. Qiao said later that his expression had already answered the question. That was the moment when a classic photo of Qiao's Laugh was taken.
>Behind this confident laugh though was a long struggle. Since the PRC was founded, the Central People's Government has been the only legitimate government representing all the Chinese people. It naturally deserves the seat of China at the UN. Due to the manipulations of the US, however, China's representation had long been kept off the UN agenda.>With China's rising international profile and the increasingly important roles of Asian, African and Latin American and Caribbean countries at the UN, the issue of China's representation was submitted to the 16th Session of UNGA held in 1961 for deliberation, breaking through the obstacles set by the US. Subsequently, the US proposed that the issue be discussed as an Important Question (autism score) that required a two-thirds majority to pass, attempting to distort the nature of China's representation.
>Despite what the US did, the overall momentum was in China's favor. More and more members of the international community supported the PRC in restoring its lawful seat at the UN. At the 25th Session of UNGA in 1970, when the number of votes for restoring China's lawful rights and expelling the KMT representatives for the first time exceeded votes of opposition (specifically, 51 votes in favor, 47 votes against), applause swept the Assembly Hall.>Reluctant to accept the result, the US cooked up a resolution on "dual representation." Its chief representative to the UN said the US was deeply worried by the fact that both Taipei and Beijing claimed they were the only government of China. The US held that this fact must be considered when deliberating over China's representation and the UN should not be asked to choose between Taipei and Beijing.>On September 21, 1971, the 26th Session of UNGA opened in New York. At the session, three draft resolutions on China's representation were submitted. Heated debates among member states lasted for a week from October 18 to 25. The US and some other Western countries lobbied around wielding the carrot and the stick, attempting to draw the Third World countries into their orbit.>The autism score resolution (any proposal depriving the "representation" of the "Republic of China" at the UN was an Important Question) was rejected with 59 votes against, 55 votes for and 15 abstentions. That was an exciting result for the Assembly. The Tanzanian representative even left his seat and danced to celebrate.>Before the draft resolution backed by Albania and Algeria was put to vote, the US representative George H.W. Bush made one last try. He suggested deleting the sentence about expelling forthwith the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek. The attempt failed after setting off a storm of opposition. The draft resolution, known as Resolution 2758, was passed with an overwhelming majority of votes (76 votes for, 35 votes against and 17 abstentions). The "dual representation" draft resolution submitted by the US, Japan and other countries (accepting the representatives of the PRC while retaining the representation of the "ROC") immediately became null and void. The Chinese people finally restored their seat at the UN, which truly made the UN the biggest international organization in the world.
<https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/zy/jj/zggcddwjw100ggs/jszgddzg/202406/t20240606_11377937.html >>2573401Imagine listening to this sexpest racist freak
>>2573979>the US proposed that the issue be discussed as an Important Question (autism score) lol
>>2574011ah fuck forgor about the word filter, supposed to be "eye queue" aka the abbreviation for "intelligence quotient"
>>2574012yeah I know, I just didn't expect it to crop up in that text. Good story though. Just finished reading it. :) Had always wondered about that photo
>>2574013thank you anon, love this photograph too. especially the focused "china" plaque in the foreground signalling officialism/formality
>>2573023Even the bourgeois have figured this shit out.
You know how in plane accidents, liability is not administered to those who made the mistake as long as all the details of the accident are disclosed. Because judgement is not productive, what's productive is examining the errors in the process that lead to the accident.
Our "marxists" can't even reach that level of dispassionate scientific inquiry.
Then one ask, how do we know it's a mistake and not deliberate sabotage?
Because why go through the effort of going against the grain of global capital? Just to try and trick a westoid trot?
>>2573927>you dogcunts profit far too much from first world imperialismreminder that most value is created in the North, not the South
>>2574086bullshit
if more advanced MOP created more value than subordinating countries with less developed MOP, there would not be any need to do imperialism, just develop MOP at home
>>2574086All the material value, from raw resources to manufacturing to human capital, is created in the south. The north merely produces higher nominal value which is a status quo maintained by finance and military hegemony.
>>2574090>if more advanced MOP created more value than subordinating countries with less developed MOP, there would not be any need to do imperialism, just develop MOP at home<Some people might think that if the value of a commodity is determined by the quantity of labour spent on it, the more idle and unskilful the labourer, the more valuable would his commodity be, because more time would be required in its production. The labour, however, that forms the substance of value, is homogeneous human labour, expenditure of one uniform labour power. The total labour power of society, which is embodied in the sum total of the values of all commodities produced by that society, counts here as one homogeneous mass of human labour power, composed though it be of innumerable individual units. Each of these units is the same as any other, so far as it has the character of the average labour power of society, and takes effect as such; that is, so far as it requires for producing a commodity, no more time than is needed on an average, no more than is socially necessary. The labour time socially necessary is that required to produce an article under the normal conditions of production, and with the average degree of skill and intensity prevalent at the time. The introduction of power-looms into England probably reduced by one-half the labour required to weave a given quantity of yarn into cloth. The hand-loom weavers, as a matter of fact, continued to require the same time as before; but for all that, the product of one hour of their labour represented after the change only half an hour’s social labour, and consequently fell to one-half its former value.>>2574099this is simply not true
>>2574099oh and in addition, developing the MoPs at home is precisely what Capital does. what it has to fetch in the South is low-value labour power. this allows the use of cheaper MoPs, which results in a high RoP. this higher RoP is the main motivation behind imperialism, not mere exploitation which Capital has more of in the North
>>2574100And what does the global north weave in 2025? Nearly all the clothes are produced in Bangladesh, China, Vietnam.
>>2574101Yes, production is in the south because labor is cheaper in the south which is why production is in the south. The northern “finance industry” and “entrepreneurship” is worthless “work” of moving money around which is nonetheless given higher worth than actual production in the current system.
>>2574100Again your quote supports my point rather than refuting it.
Both the northern and southern workers are doing "homogeneous labor" because the global economy is already integrated.
In essence, both are just "pressing buttons" for 8-12 hours a day.
So, the fact that one earns more than the other constitutes value TRANSFER from the south to the north.
*ESPECIALLY* the bolded part. In having access to more advanced MOP (hand-loom in this case), "one hour of their labour represented after the change only half an hour’s social labour, and consequently fell to one-half its former value"
Therefore, more advanced MOP *REDUCES* the value of the worker's labor.
>>2574102it's about the totality of the system, anon. cloth is made by machines. so are particular garments like socks and t-shirts. it's true that particular brands have their clothes made in these countries. there was an example like this posted a couple of months ago about some high-end bag made in the PRC which sells for way more than the cost of materials+labour in the West. but the same bag is also sold locally at a much lower price. that price is likely close to the bag's value. when sold in the West, the difference amounts to a kind of ground rent. crucially, said rent is not paid for by the labour that goes into the bag. it is taken from other industries. that is, rent is what would otherwise be profit for other porkies. see vol III
>>2574103please cite some examples anon, rather than guessing. this is not the case for mining for example
>>2574105>So, the fact that one earns more than the other constitutes value TRANSFER from the south to the north.no it doesn't. this is just the mudpie argument. in reality Southern labour power is simply squandered
>Therefore, more advanced MOP *REDUCES* the value of the worker's labor.again, it's about the totality
>>2574106>Southern labour power is simply squanderedIt's squandered in the sense that technology transfer and development in the south would equalize things. But technology and development is deliberately withheld from the south to keep the lopsided relation going.
That's because profit is made from reaping SURPLUS VALUE, which comes from the difference between cost of subsistence and total labor value contributed by the worker in the 8-12 hours of work day. Underdeveloped regions have lower COSTS OF SUBSISTENCE and contribute MORE VALUE due to underdeveloped MOP.
Again, developed MOP REDUCE the value of labor.
>again, it's about the totalityYes, the totality is that all workers in the economy produce on aggregate the same amount of value per hour worked, and the only way to increase value is to either increase working time or the intensity of work.
Northern workers actually work LESS intensely due to developed MOP, and less hours due to bargaining power. This reduces the value contributed by them.
But that's small change. What's important is that they earn disproportionately more for the same 8 hours than a southern worker does, because their cost of subsistence is much higher, because wealth is concentrated in the north.
>>2574109>Underdeveloped regions have lower COSTS OF SUBSISTENCEyes
>and contribute MORE VALUE due to underdeveloped MOP.no. moving ore with wheelbarrows rather than dumpers does not create more value. sewing t-shirts by hand rather than having a machine do it does not create more value
>Again, developed MOP REDUCE the value of labor.it's actually the opposite. the value of labour power depends on the level of development in any region. the wage rate tends to hove around 50%, which means that the value of labour power cannot help but rise as the MoPs develop
perhaps you meant the new value created by labour. but again it is about the totality. one hour of concrete labour using more developed MoPs create more value than one hour of concrete labour using less developed MoPs. this is all within the first three pages of vol I
>Northern workers actually work LESS intensely due to developed MOPI think you should take a look at how shift work works in say a Kraft paper mill
>What's important is that they earn disproportionately more for the same 8 hours than a southern worker doesthey don't do the same 8 hours. what matters to Capital is
social labour, which Northern workers do much more of. they may do the same amount of
concrete labour but that doesn't matter to Capital
>>2574114>moving ore with wheelbarrows rather than dumpers does not create more value. sewing t-shirts by hand rather than having a machine do it does not create more valueif we read capital vol. 1, chapter 12, we see marx discuss his concept of "relative surplus value" (what leninists sometimes refer to as "super-profits"). the concept is simple; innovation causes markets to equilibrate at lesser prices since value has shifted with the rate of productivity, shafting competition by creating a loss (basically, they are forced to sell cheaper):
<the capitalist who applies the improved method of production, appropriates to surplus-labour a greater portion of the working day, than the other capitalists in the same trade […] The law of the determination of value by labour-time, a law which brings under its sway the individual capitalist who applies the new method of production, by compelling him to sell his goods under their social value, this same law, acting as a coercive law of competition, forces his competitors to adopt the new method.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch12.htma product made by lesser means according to marx does mean a higher value (more labour-time in production). we may read about this in chapter 1:
<The introduction of power-looms into England probably reduced by one-half the labour required to weave a given quantity of yarn into cloth. The hand-loom weavers, as a matter of fact, continued to require the same time as before; but for all that, the product of one hour of their labour represented after the change only half an hour’s social labour, and consequently fell to one-half its former value.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htmthis is why with greater supply, there is a lesser price, since there is less value. thus as marx concludes, the more advanced capitalist forces competition to sell below their own value to engage in trade. you can take this for what its worth, but it seems entirely consistent with marx's ideas.
>>2574120superprofit is not relative surplus value. superprofits come about when porkies use more productive MoPs compared to the competition, until said competition has caught up. if I'm not mistaken, relative surplus value is the aggregate effect, rather than the marginal effect. the central point remains the same: if you have two populations producing the same commodities and one uses more advanced MoPs which allow them to produce more of that commodity per concrete hour, then that population produces more value per hour than the other population. the population working with worse MoPs do
not produce more value. the idea that they are is the same as the mudpie argument
>>2574146>superprofit is not relative surplus value.<superprofits come about when porkies use more productive MoPs compared to the competition, until said competition has caught up.thats literally what i just wrote… 🤨
>if you have two populations producing the same commodities and one uses more advanced MoPs which allow them to produce more of that commodity per concrete hour, then that population produces more value per hour than the other population. the population working with worse MoPs do not produce more value.what? interpret this statement by marx for me:
<The introduction of power-looms into England probably reduced by one-half the labour required to weave a given quantity of yarn into cloth […] and consequently fell to one-half its former value.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htmvalue falls by inverse proportion to productivity:
<The value of commodities is in inverse ratio to the productiveness of labourhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch12.htmso the more commodities you make, the cheaper they are.
>>2574153>thats literally what i just wrote… 🤨turns out Marx isn't always consistent with his vocabulary. or he's talking from the point of view of workers in vol I, and from the view of the whole system in vol III
>so the more commodities you make, the cheaper they are.mhm. and what of those that use the old MoPs? let me summarize here
vol I: the introduction of new machinery lower the value of the commodity produced. the workers in the North produce the same value because they produce more commodities. workers in the South produce less value
vol III: the introduction of new machinery does not in itself change the value of commodities. it is the last commodity produced that sets the value of that commodities. the value produced by workers in the South remains unchanged. the value produced in the North increases
>>2574157youre going to have to provide quotations from marx.
>>2574160luckily I already have some from before. Vol III chapter 15:
>If the rate of profit falls, there follows, on the one hand, an exertion of capital in order that the individual capitalists, through improved methods, etc., may depress the value of their individual commodity below the social average value and thereby realise an extra profit at the prevailing market-price. On the other hand, there appears swindling and a general promotion of swindling by recourse to frenzied ventures with new methods of production, new investments of capital, new adventures, all for the sake of securing a shred of extra profit which is independent of the general average and rises above it.Capitalists spend more on improved MoPs when the RoP falls, and in so doing they gain superpofits vs capitalists who do not. Oh and some of them will try swindling but that doesn't actually work long-term.
Vol III chapter 18:
>For the rest, it is self-evident that regardless of alternating, mutually compensating, speedier and slower turnovers, this law of turnover of merchant's capital holds good in each branch of commerce only for the average turnovers made by the entire merchant's capital invested in each particular branch. The capital of A, who deals in the same branch as B, may make more or less than the average number of turnovers. In this case the others make less or more. This does not alter the turnover of the total mass of merchant's capital invested in this line. But it is of decisive moment for the individual merchant or shopkeeper. In this case he makes an extra profit, just as industrial capitalists make extra profits if they produce under better than average conditions. If competition compels him, he can sell cheaper than his competitors without lowering his profit below the average. If the conditions which would enable him to turn over his capital more rapidly, are themselves for sale, such as a favourable shop location, he can pay extra rent for it, i.e., convert a portion of his surplus-profit into ground-rent.Merchants who move product better than the competition make superprofits, same as an industrial capitalists who uses more productive MoPs.
Vol III chapter 50:
>Fourthly: Whether the commodities are sold at their values or not, and hence the determination of value itself, is quite immaterial for the individual capitalist. It is, from the very outset, a process that takes place behind his back and is controlled by the force of circumstances independent of himself, because it is not the values, but the divergent prices of production, which form the regulating average prices in every sphere of production. The determination of value as such interests and has a determining effect on the individual capitalist and the capital in each particular sphere of production only in so far as the reduced or increased quantity of labour required to produce commodities, as a consequence of a rise or fall in productiveness of labour, enables him in one instance to make an extra profit, at the prevailing market-prices, and compels him in another to raise the price of his commodities, because more wages, more constant capital, and thus more interest, fall upon each portion of the product, or individual commodity. It interests him only in so far as it raises or lowers the cost of production of commodities for himself, thus only in so far as it makes his position exceptional.Porkies who use the most productive MoPs rake in superprofits. Where are these MoPs found? They are found in the North, not the South. Cockshott has a video on this, see vidrel
>>2574179i dont see how this is explained:
>the introduction of new machinery does not in itself change the value of commodities. it is the last commodity produced that sets the value of that commodities. the value produced by workers in the South remains unchanged. the value produced in the North increases. >>2574190this is the case with ground rent. I don't think Marx has an explicit example with superprofit (or "extra profit" as he calls it)
>>2574197so the reason the west is rich is because it convers surplus-profit into ground rent…?
my own view is that subsistence costs are high because of infrastructure and transport which must be maintained, raising capital costs - the paradox is that as value expands socially, it contracts privately, hence bills are expensive but groceries are cheap, while it can be the opposite in the undeveloped world.
>>2574200the rising value of labour power is easily explained by rising productivity coupled with class struggle keeping the wage rate near 50%. see pdfrel. the point remains the same: the value is created in the North
>so the reason the west is rich is because it convers surplus-profit into ground rent…?no it is because Capital is compelled to invest. this is also why Chine is growing increasingly rich. the Party forces national porkies to invest. in return they allow them some leeway, but not too much as Jack Ma has learned
>>2574202>rising productivity coupled with class struggleit depends on how you define productivity. i would say that the classical revenue of rents is taken up by a large proportion of the cost of living (i.e. bills, taxes) while net wages derived from industry still maintain a higher purchasing power (thus lowering value). the point on class struggle has relevance, since the law of value has been suspended here by state regulation (monopoly) rather than competition or productivity. the marginal product is surely measured by the rate of employment however, but who knows what the rate of profit would be without subsidies?
>keeping the wage rate near 50%can you explain this point?
>Capital is compelled to investisnt it more that the state invests in capital?
i'll check out the book in the meantime.
>>2574216>can you explain this point?check out the section Constraints on the Distribution of Wage Rates. the full argument is in chapter 6. it's a bit more subtle than what I initially made it out to be. what Farjoun et al argue is that wage rates must be the way they are due for structural, statistical reasons
>isnt it more that the state invests in capital?tomayto tomahto. investments are made at a greater rate than in the West, which is ultimately what matters. the CPC is more directly involved in the larger companies I think
>>2574120>the capitalist who applies the improved method of production, appropriates to surplus-labour a greater portion of the working day, than the other capitalists in the same trade […] The law of the determination of value by labour-time, a law which brings under its sway the individual capitalist who applies the new method of production, by compelling him to sell his goods under their social value, this same law, acting as a coercive law of competition, forces his competitors to adopt the new method.Just saw a retard on "hacker" news pretending Marx didn't address this despite writing with full hindsight on the industrial revolution. If you ever want to laugh at totally out of touch lib techbros I highly recommend the site.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46057823 >>2574419>Just saw a retard on "hacker" news pretending Marx didn't address this despite writing with full hindsight on the industrial revolution. If you ever want to laugh at totally out of touch lib techbros I highly recommend the site.I'd rather not give myself brain damage. It is very frustrating though, knowing there are millions of bourgeois voices out there, "debunking" Marx over and over based on the vibes they get from him, without reading any of his work.
>>2574526last time this happened they blew up all their ports and peddled them drugs so they didn't have to trade with silver and gold. ww iii coming soon, anons.
>>2574595>Our Celestial Empire possesses all things in prolific abundance and lacks no product within its own borders. There was therefore no need to import the manufactures of outside barbarians in exchange for our own produce.Emperor Qianlong in a letter to George III, 1792
>>2574419as someone who works with 'puters, the pain is real
>Following his call Monday with Chinese President Xi Jinping, President Donald J. Trump reportedly told Japanese Prime Minister Sanae Takaichi to “lower the volume” and not provoke Beijing over Taiwan, after she had recently stated that Japan may be forced to militarily respond to a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, according to the Wall Street Journal.
Communism cannot be practiced, only recognized. It is the real movement of history, the real secret behind its development. Do I think the Chinese government properly recognizes communism and responds to the challenges their country faces on the basis of that recognition? Yes. Therefore, China is Communist.
>>2575291Trump would be the perfect insider agent if he wasnt mentally retarded
or is he just pretending to be retarded? >>2575414rip! hasan was complaining yesterday that hong kong is still too much like a british western city and it was like traveling into the past after he left the mainland and went there. he wants the cpc to speed up taking over it
>>2574526>This is not a threat but a simple statement of fact. Workers in Europe, Japan, South Korea and the US need jobs. We do not want our economic development to go into reverse. And even if we did not care, without exports, we will eventually run out of ways to pay China for our imports.You will pay with your land and women, filthy westoid laowai. Either you embrace socialism like China did, or collapse into comrador kingdoms and warlords. March of progress is unstoppable, and time is the fairest judge of all; capitalism cannot survive socialism's unshackled might
Adapt or fucking die. Modern civilization is coming for your job, healthcare, housing, and clean air.
>>2574526>The only good solutions lie with Beijing. It could take action to overcome deflation in its own economy, to remove structural barriers to domestic consumption, to let its exchange rate appreciate and to halt the billions in subsidies and loans it directs towards industry. That would be good for the Chinese people, too, whose living standards are sacrificed to make the country more competitive.Pffft, yet another China understander. I bet he thinks that Chinese are worse off simply because their wages in exchange rate USDs is lower
Daily reminder that Xi drinks (((alcohol))). It's the liquid jew.
>>2575540>nooooo deflation is LE BAD,A layman would think that consumer goods getting cheaper is LE GOOD until they lose their job and have to sell their house. High deflation is bad for economic growth as spending/investments would decrease due to consumers/investors saving money by postponing spending until absolutely necessary. High inflation works the other way by forcing people spend money before goods/investments become even more costly. Money increases value during deflation and assets increase value during inflation and vice versa.
>you should want everything to increase in price every year Central Banks have 2% inflation targets so there is less risk of deflation. 0% would be optimal but risk of runaway deflation forces these institutions to keep this safety margin.
>while wages don’t grow to matchUnions at least here negotiate wage increases to meet inflation or above it.
>>2575678
The more refined the product is the more valuable the product is on the markets. Car parts are cheap and while entire cars are not.
>>2575691
This all would make more sense if he actually was a Russian asset. Im not complaining that USA empire is collapsing but its just an endless cringefest to watch Trump on news.
>>2575697
>yet somehow the profits and up in France.
This is not true. The bourgies owning Renault or Peugeot are international and live across the planet in their mansions.
>>2575697>>2575705This is neoliberalism we're talking about. A lot of French car production is actually done in Romania now.
>>2575707My point wasnt that French are somehow better people even if they assembled cars in France but that more refined products are more valuable than a pile of resources used to make car. Congo would be richest country in the world if natural resources mattered more than refined products and Japan the poorest country in the world. China is steering towards high-end technology like AI, Robotics, Electric Cars etc. because of this phenomena.
>>2575678so?
>>2575697I suggest you take a closer look at how car manufacturing actually works. my brother works in the industry, designing stamping dies. he's spent quite a bit of time in China on Geely's behalf, setting up production lines there
>>2575715it's not whether the product is "refined" or not. it's about the productivity of the MoPs. Congolese coltan miners digging ore with picks and shovels are not going to anywhere near as productive as Russian miners doing the same with dynamite, loaders and dumpers
So, when is China going to finally restore even elements of free advanced education and housing?
>>2575719Even with the most sophisticated mining equipment around its still a pile of resources and not a car. Which do you think generates more profits/surplus value?
>>2575738>Mao thought the similar when he believed nuke was the only way to effectively end the korean war in communist favor.China did not enter Korea until MacArthur's forces were right on the Yalu River AND after the US bombed China's border regions, and only after the Koreans requested support. It wasn't a war to simply support Korea, but was also about securing China's frontiers. That's why Peng Dehuai did not try to advance further south after the PVA captured Seoul, and for over two years, it was about forcing an armistice. MacArthur also threatened to nuke china first.
>>2575754NTA but France has high productivity because it specializes in high value added tasks like IP, engineering, R&D, branding, automation, etc. Countries like Bangladesh have low value added per worker because it has abundant cheap labor for labor-intensive manufacturing. Over the past few centuries the west has had monopoly on the former.
>>2574526Either way, China for the past 40 years needed to continually upgrade their industrial base, otherwise they would have stayed stuck in the extractive imperialist core - periphary trap that keeps other parts of the global south poor. Other global south countries couldn't do it because they opened up their economy on terms set by the West, often after debt crises, or sponsored regime changes. They were pushed into the Washington Consensus model, which stripped away state capacity by privatizing strategic industries, liberalizing trade prematurely, and restricting industrial policy. Structural adjustment programs from IMF had conditions where the government must privatize their banks which prevented them from directing credit for long term strategic industrial policy. This happened to Bangladesh, a country mentioned above. The same IMF loans were not designed to build infrastructure or industrial capacity, so these countries were forced to use their surplus to service debt while never actually developing the industries or skills that would let them generate more surplus in the first place. Meanwhile, Deng never liberalized China's political structure, China never accepted IMF structrual adjument loans, never privatized their banks or the commanding heights of the economy.
>>2575737
China makes all the right people seethe
>>2575737
>Education in hard labor and rising from absolute bottom of society to be the most powerful man in the world due to cheer willpower to prove he is a real fucking communist unlike his father.
How is this bad?
You know, I bet if China were to transition to capitalism tomorrow nobody would notice.
>>2575791You're right, the word "high" by itself can imply that some work is morally or inherently superior. I was trying to be descriptive (and concise), not normative. A more marxist-friendly way to say it is: ‘industries that generate higher output per worker
due to capitalism and its global inequalites.'
>>2575805The bourgeoisie in the west would definitely notice. China would lose its state capacity and be directed by capital instead of the other way around. They would financialize their country and deregulate their commanding heights of the economy and put it up for sale to MNCs for instance.
>>2575803Xi Jinpings life reads like a shonen anime protag but you're supposed to hate him for it.
>>2575805The occidental countries wouldn’t notice because their heads are too firmly up their ass but the ones that matter would.
>>2575628>>2575868>le people must be forced to spend money by inflationary pressure or else economy will dieNo. If you have to squeeze money out of people with rent + inflation, it means you economy is unbalanced and wonky and has TOO MUCH MONEY. You need to decrease monetary supply, i.e. cut off oipportunities for retarded investments - mostly AI, bitcoin and real estate. Once you do this, full employment and prosperity will come naturally as people's budgets will match expenditures (with safe non-crazy investments).
https://archive.ph/Yq71H>China’s growing global fan club>Our new poll shows global opinion is swinging its way>CHINA APPEARS “increasingly cool,” declared Jin Lian, a spokesperson for China’s foreign ministry, earlier this year. To make his case he pointed to consumer-product sensations and cutting-edge technology. After all, this year China has celebrated the success of the “ugly-cute” Labubu toy and DeepSeek, and experimented with flying cars.>“Foreign friends”, Mr Jin purred, were “breaking through their cognitive cocoons”. Soft-power victories matter both to China and to its president, Xi Jinping, in the country’s bid to be a superpower. And President Donald Trump is handing other successes to his Chinese counterpart. His chaotic policymaking means many now see China as a stabilising presence. In the eyes of the world, China seems to be growing into an awesome rival to America.>To test this thesis, The Economist, working with GlobeScan, a consulting and polling firm, asked 32,000 people in 32 countries for their views on China and America between July and September. The results are startling. Since we last asked the question a year ago, China has made big gains as the world’s preferred “leading power” (see chart 1). The share of respondents favouring China jumped by 11 percentage points to an average of 33%. Meanwhile, support for America slipped below a global majority to 46%.>China wants to be seen as America’s peer. Preference for China as the world’s leading power has risen in every place sampled by GlobeScan. Perhaps most surprisingly, that includes America, where support for Chinese leadership doubled to (a still low) 6%. Meanwhile, two in every five Americans thought that China’s influence in the world was “mainly positive”, up from a quarter during Mr Trump’s first term.>Preference for China strongly correlates with age: the younger the respondent, the more likely they are to welcome Chinese leadership (see chart 2). Among 18- to 24-year-olds America and China are nearly tied for support at 41% and 39% respectively. Among those over 65 years old, America has a commanding 30-point lead. Many youngsters use Chinese products and services, like the video-sharing sensation TikTok, or follow social-media influencers who have visited China. (Earlier this year, state media were found offering expenses-paid trips to China to such types.)>When it comes to picking China as the leading power, the largest regional increases were in Latin America and Europe. In Brazil, Canada, Mexico, South Africa and Spain, preferences for China rose (and support for America fell) by about 20 percentage points. The single largest increase was in Indonesia, where support for China leapt by 23 percentage points to 62% to make it the second-most pro-China country, behind Egypt. There were only fractional rises in China’s neighbours. Security concerns dominate views of China in Japan and South Korea, where no more than 5% of respondents preferred China.>For perhaps the first time, more than half of respondents in Africa and the Middle East opted for China. Many already liked the country anyway, which may be partly thanks to China’s Belt and Road Initiative. In the past decade the scheme has seen tens of billions of dollars invested in those regions. Still, this most recent bump of nine points takes China over the majority mark, so lends some credibility to China’s claims to lead the global south.>Overall preference for China is only part of the story. China’s list of supporters also reads as a roll call of America’s discontents. Mr Trump has picked fights with South Africa over false claims of a “white genocide” and Brazil for prosecuting its former president and MAGA-ally, Jair Bolsanaro. America’s neighbours, Canada and Mexico, have both been hit with tariffs and threats of invasion. America’s star tends to dim under Republican presidents and sparkle under Democrats, but what is new is that the fall in affection for America is so clearly to the benefit of its biggest rival. Labubu Youth
>>2575738it's not 1960 retard
>>2575739>Even with the most sophisticated mining equipment around its still a pile of resources and not a car. Which do you think generates more profits/surplus value?resources do not have any value. read Marx
>>2575754which car brand are you talking about specifically? and what parts exactly? WP has a list of active car companies in Hungary. none of them are French (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Hungary)
what MoPs do Fiat, Peugeot, Renault or Citroën use in Bangladesh? are we talking about cast parts or machined parts? is it fabric? plastic?
>>2575678
Yeah porkies give money to western workers out of racial solidarity, as Hitler prescribed. This is why wages have only grown or stayed the same in the west for the past half century.
>>2576061TIL the majority shareholder of Renault is the French state
>>2576064France is car AES
>>2575697
Cheap chinese EV's are sweeping the whole continent. ICE vehicles are so last century, much like europe itself
>>2576088Aren't Chinese EVs costing more in recent years.
>>2576093no but it probably depends on the market you're in. importing one in america is technically legal if you're ok with dropping a ton of money
>>2576097these american boomers are reviewing a chinese EV and at the end one of them says about the car
>The key really is integration. The best part is no part. And so as you can get the parts to work harmonioulsy together, and you get that synergistic effect, that's when you win.he inadvertenly ends up up describing the PRC under a leninized state + dialectical materialism + deep manufacturing base + mature supply chains.
>>2575738Everything you say is revisionism. You are a fascist, like your Khrushchev. Mao would never say such nonsense. Mao said nuclear weapons are paper tigers. Men determine wars, not bombs.
>>2575805Watch this video
China describes its system as a "socialist market economy". How does that work? What is the role of its stock exchanges? Socialism with Chinese Characteristics explained.
Topics
I highlighted ones in red that I think most people neglect to mention even when arguing on here0:00 Intro
1:11 Deng Xiaoping & China's "Reform & Opening Up"
4:06 Socialism with Chinese Characteristics
5:17 China's economic growth & poverty reduction
7:42 How state-owned enterprises (SOEs) run China's economy
10:09 Chen Yun & the "birdcage economy"11:39 SOE share of China's GDP
13:37 China's largest companies are SOEs
14:53 Socialist market economy
16:02 "Grasp the large, let go of the small"17:42 "Managed competition" in China
19:50 Billionaires in China
20:43 China's stock markets
27:17 (Clip) Western financial analyst says China rejected Washington Consensus
30:43 (Clip) Bloomberg complains "China doesn't care about the stock market"
32:10 Differences between US & Chinese economies
33:33 (Clip) Investor explains China's stock market is not priority for government
36:56 China's economic policy is made for workers, not investors
45:55 US financialized capitalism vs. Chinese socialism
46:33 US stock market is 60.5% of entire world
47:13 Richest 10% of Americans own 93% of stocks
47:52 Global oligarchs hold wealth in US stock market
48:31 China's pursuit of "common prosperity"
51:49 Outro
>>2575628>High deflation is bad for economic growth as spending/investments would decrease due to consumers/investors saving money by postponing spending until absolutely necessary.Then how is China’s economy growing faster than countries with 3% inflation? Perhaps it isn’t a bad thing to let people save money instead of spending most of what they have every month?
>Unions at least here negotiate wage increases to meet inflation or above it.I don’t know where “here” is but country-wide statistics in America show that working class and even middle class wages have not in fact kept up with inflation.
>>2575682Lol. Assembling the finished pieces of a car is definitely easier than manufacturing said components from raw materials, which is what the Chinese part of the production chain does. Just admit that europoors make shitloads of money just by slapping the brand logo on at the very end of the production process.
>>2575803He’s also a chemical engineer btw which means not only knowledge in chemistry but also experience in designing systems and processes
>>2576252he also went back to school in the '90s and got a phd in marxist theory
>>2576253Those Twitter posts are kind of sensationalist, the cars aren’t re-badged they’re joint ventures
>>2576253Yes they do have their own brands now but they still can’t compete with German/french branding for value-added, they are only muscling out said brands by being cheaper. These joint venture cars only show how much the non-Chinese branding is still worth - I doubt it was the engineering that they needed considering the current excess of engineers. The yuropoors make so much money just by slapping on their logo, it’s ridiculous
>>2576257>y-you are just cheap! Lol, lmao even. If this was the case, why are Euro automakers suffer financially and downsize? Doesn't sound like a lot of added value to me
>>2576274Yeah, not gonna work. China was an outsource destination FOR ALL kinds of labor for the West, Chinese had come to Westoids and offered to produce everything bottom to top at a fraction of price, and only required technology to do so, so Westoids had obviously obliged - for profit. Why would China give them technology when Europe is merely a consumer market? What, do Europoors expect China to outsource labour to Europe, for this to be a win-win trade?
Just how the bourgeoisie truly act by the logic of their markets rather than the moral idealism they believe to uphold, the Chinese will change the financial order and become the new dominant trading power and the bourgeoisie will have no choice but to indirectly help countries that have been embargoed for generations.
>>2576273If they didn’t have so much prestige from their brand, they wouldn’t just be downsized, they’d be dead with no chance of recovery.
>>2576372Capitalism for 1000 years more then
>>2576474
Good.
>>2576474
>>There is nothing that China wants to import
This uygha serious?
Have you tried not being in trade wars with them?
I will be at the opening of the Chinese super-embassy in London reading out passages of The Governance of China.
>>2576477 [start @ 0:38]
Guessing the news is going down like this
>>2576474
Food?
>>2576491China grows majority of it's food. It's kind of like "China exports 5% of foods, imports 10%", therefore baka Westoids think that China is 50% dependent on food imports, they don't take the full production into account and only look at trade balance.
>>2576491Natural resources like oil and gas.
>>2576488We have Hong Kongers protesting and trying to use NIMBY tactics lol.
>>2576525Are they protesting against the CPC for a fire their corner-cutting porky construction techniques caused?
>>2576568
Tell Europeans that. Or Americans.
>>2576587You may not read the Stürmer, but its still the biggest newspaper in the burgerreich 😵💫
>>2576474
>exporting and only receiving useless currency in exchange
maybe China should stop exporting altogether?
>>2576611How can I get an affordable new car otherwise?
>>2576611they should stop exporting to the FIRE economies and instead trade exclusively with Africa that actually has stuff to offer
>>2576631the west would just "coincidentally" import a ton more from Africa if that happened
>>2576646what can the west even offer? debt? Africa too has everything it needs for self sufficiency. once china breaks the chains and the continent industrializes its fucking over
>>2576652True true, basically what's currently happening in Africa are the first stages of rapid industrialization, as Africa now demands that ressource extracting firms transfer the first steps of the refining process to the African continent itself. The next escalation will be the capitalists failing to resist that delicious and gigantic, young African labor pool, so they will outsource all manufacturing steps to Africa, and by then it will be too late. They will scream how Africans firms copy them and only produce junk, just how they complained about China, and South Korea and Japan before them and at the beginning it was Britain complaining about Germany. But by then you will know for certain that Africa has industrialized.
>>2576652>what can the west even offer?Since late 80's western industries have had time to adjust into outsourcing industries into China. Special high-tech manufacturing was kept home while anything mass produced was outsourced into cheap labor 3rd world countries. Engineers built cars in germany and airplanes in USA while rest of the workforce was employed on the service sector. Now this is changing as China has become a dominat force in electric vehicles and other high tech products. West is losing even its high tech product to better and cheaper Chinese ones.
>>2576860>7 Mach ≈ 8 645 kmhBruh
>>2576895>elect right wing ultra-nationalist into governmentAnon. It's been the same political party ruling China since WWII came to an end. The plan to eventually remilitarise the country was always going to be the case. Daddy America needs a load to be taken off so he needs Japan to build up its naval fleet.
>>2576902>ruling chinaI mean Japan hurrrrrrr
>>2576911
>Anon is unaware of the past 80 years
>>2576902LDP is a big tent party with a myriad of conservatives. After the war most were fine with being militarily subservient to the US. Compare the dominant narratives of the immediate post-war era in Japan and Germany, the former in which the government was just helpless and controlled by a gang of militarists led by Tojo who were to blame, and latter in which the military was just honorable figures like Rommel following discipline and were forced by a government who are to blame. The former rehabilitates the government figures like Kishi, but completely discredits the military since the aim was to have Japan be fully dotted by US military bases instead. Whereas the latter rehabilitates the military, since West Germany was to be in NATO fully remilitarized against the socialist bloc. If the aim was to remilitarize from the beginning, they would have adopted a clean Wehrmacht myth like West Germany.
>>2576921
>they would have adopted a clean Wehrmacht myth like West Germany.
They have?
>>2576923The most common wartime narrative in post-war Japan was about "militarists" waging war and controlling the government. The exact opposite of the clean Wehrmacht myth to exhortate the exact opposite people.
>>2576911
That's a really dumb thing to say anon.
>>2576922Imperial Japan was a bigger adversary to the US and caused them much more trouble than nazi Germany ever did. Simple as.
No wonder AmeriKKKa completely neutered them and humiliates Japan to this day, even if geopolitiKKKally it made more sense to militarize Japan against the USSR and China.
>>2576935>Imperial Japan was a bigger adversary to the US and caused them much more trouble than nazi Germany ever did. Simple as.No there was realistically no possibility of Japan defeating the United States. Especially after Midway. Ironically, just like now with China, the Japanese could not defeat the Americans because the Americans had a ginormous almost infinite capacity to manufacture military arms and ships. So the Attack on Pearl Harbor made it seem as if the Imperial Japanese Navy were the undisputed masters of the Pacific but the US was able to boost its productivity through an emergency centralised war economy by over 100 percent and could rebuild all their lost capital ships and aircraft carriers in less than two years. The Japanese did not have the materials or industry necessary to counter that.
>>2576948Okay this is just peevish autism. Mao said the Kuril Islands belonged to the Japanese, but that also was probably peevish autism for the sino-soviet split.
Saying Okinawa is not Japanese because of a 300 year old kingdom is akin to saying Taiwan deserves independence because it was the last vestige of the Ming Dynasty during the Qing.
>>2576947Didn't say Japan could have won the war. Just that Japan crossed the US personally and completely humiliating them and making an example out of them with the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings + de-militarization became a matter of national pride rather than strict geopolitics.
>>2576953I think America still wants Japan to remilitarise. They just don't want them to antagonise Taiwan i.e, make bold statements about Pacific geopolitics without American consent. For quite some time American politicians have desired Japan to repeal Article 9 and build up primarily its naval assets.
>>2576911
No… before colonization, African societies were generally self-sufficient. They had established systems of agriculture, trade networks, such as the Trans-Saharan routes, political structures, and sophisticated cultural and technological traditions. Some regions experienced external trade or influence, but the continent as a whole was not dependent on outside powers for survival or development. You had kingdoms like Mali, Songhai, Benin, and Kongo, as well as federations and decentralized societies like the Igbo and many pastoral communities.
>>2577090> top trading partner of IsraelYou keep saying this but then the actual material support was extremely limited. Nor was China involved in turning Gaza into a literal fiefdom led by Tony fucking Blair.
>>2577092Yeah just eating popcorn on the sidelines. China ain't doing shit for the international left, its a joke compared to the USSR
>>2577119>international leftThe USSR didn't actually give much monetary support to the western left wing forces. They supported the major anti-imperialist movements of its day like the ANC or the Tudeh party in Iran. We no longer are living in the 20th century. Anti Imperialism is not much less obvious. China supports countries in need and breaks the shackles of US embargoes on China and Venezuela.
>>2577154grrr they're lifting people out of poverty and neocolonial influence in a way I don't like
>>2577119You are ahistorical revisionist who speaks for monopolists and fails to grasp the necessity of Chinese trade. Communist China supplies Palestinians who live under zionist occupation with commodities they need to live, therefore the trade cannot stop or palestinians become more destitute. The social imperialists did nothing but scam arabs. During the Middle East War, the arms sold by Soviet revisionism to the Arab countries were priced very high. They had to be paid for in liquid foreign exchanges. In order to buy some arms to protect themselves against Israeli aggression, some countries had to borrow dollars in the Western money market to pay these Soviet revisionist arms dealers.
>>2576948do the people of Ryukyu want to be an independent nation? or the part of the PRC? i think they just want to kick out the USA military and are content to remain Japanese
>>2577216>do the people of Ryukyu want to be an independent nation? It's complicated. The Japanese treated them like second-class citizens despite being part of the Japanese home islands. After the war, Okinawa became fully occupied by the U.S for several decades even after Japan was allowed to form a government and there is still a sizeable US military presence. Older lefties in Okinawa want the US gone but its not a sizeable movement.
>>2577119>why won't china lay its head on the chopping block, why is it using soft power to win instead of hard power to losethis is the essence of your crying
>>2577090If anything this is proof that the US and Israel is aligned against China, like I have been saying for several threads, and all the "CHINA LOVES ISRAEL BECAUSE THEY SELL ISRAEL LOTS OF COMMODITIES" people are ignoring the actual geopolitical development of a neo-fascist bloc consisting of NATO, Ukraine, and Israel against BRICS and the global south.
>>2577234not sending labubus and smartphones to Israel = putting your hand on the chopping block
Istg Yemen is the only country left with integrity despite being one of the poorest
>>2577294yemen loves china tho
>>2577294a 66% majority of weapons are sold to israel by the USA, including explosive ammunition, with the remainder of weaposn being sold mostly by Italy and Germany. USA also gives israel weapons for free, intelligence for free, logistical support for free, etc. So to me this whining about China is making a mountain out of a molehill. It reflects backwards priorities in the analysis.
>>2577319oh that makes it ok then. other people sell so much more weapons to them so its fine if they only sell a little bit of weapons that are used for genocide.
>>2577326Oh that makes sense then. Other countries are trading with Germany in the 1930s with so much more weapons to the USSR so its fine if they exchange oil and military material that are used for genocide years later in 1941.
>>2577341you don't understand
the second after a socialist revolution the party is supposed to transfer the country to a different astral plane or it is not socialism
anything less than that? then I don't care if nazi germany or it's modern equivalents exterminate that socialist country
>>2577346you fucking moron
if the leader of the socialist revolution doesn't abolish the need to participate in the global economy the moment his ASS HITS THE DESK CHAIR he is a CAPITALIST
>>2576950Japan bitches out about China -> China tells Japan that Okinawa should be free from Japanese rule and American bases. Okinawan independence removes American and Japanese imperialists, therefore should be supported by the progressive peoples of the Earth
>>2577347Are you joking or sarcastic or like doing irony? What brand of communist thinks contributing to the world through trade is bad? I'm legitimately confused
>>2577365yes I am joking
it is joke
>>2577365Wait I'm realizing it was a bit. You got my ass
>>2577367Dude you got me so good I'll kill myself right now live in chat
>>2577361RTSG have very good articles on how the Chinese economy works but I've just seen that they support the ACP.
>>2576950I'm honestly kind of embarrassed that China is doing "Free Tibet" nonsense.
>>25773513% support for independence in Okinawa btw.
>>2577351or why even fall for the trap of bourgeois "international law". china is a socialist country therefore any action they take against japan, a country dominated by both the american and the local bourgeoisie, is justified and supported by other socialists. when the us mines the ports of nicaragua you never hear anything more than, at most, fake concern from the people that pretend to care about international law. it would be stupid to take the kayfabe seriously when our opponents very openly do not
>>2577375When China liberates them and provides them with proper education highlighting the historical Luchu Kingdom's ties with China as opposed to Japan, they will gradually support more and more an independent state closer to China as is their historical alignment.
>>2577221>The Japanese treated them like second-class citizens despite being part of the Japanese home islands.I mean, the japanese used to put the indigenous people of Ryukyu in human displayed zoos
>>2577424how considerate of them
Opinions on this article by an Alibaba director?
>The Economist’s Big Mac index shows that a McDonald’s Big Mac costs $6.01 in the US, yet only Rmb25.5 (about $3.60) in China, implying the renminbi is roughly 41 per cent undervalued. This light-hearted burger benchmark closely tracks the IMF’s more formal purchasing power parity estimate, which indicates that the renminbi is about 50 per cent undervalued against the dollar.>A steady appreciation would boost domestic consumption and improve trade relations.>Despite steady 5 per cent annual GDP growth since 2023, China urgently needs to curb its export dependence and pivot towards domestic consumption to ensure sustainable expansion. A stronger renminbi would help lift consumption’s share of growth from its current level of around 53 per cent back to 2023 levels of 86 per cent by making imports cheaper and increasing household purchasing power.>Sceptics invoke Japan’s “lost decades”, blaming the sharp yen appreciation forced by the 1985 Plaza Accord. That parallel does not hold. China’s situation is the opposite. After falling property and equity prices in recent years, household wealth is impaired and consumer confidence remains fragile. Consequently, households have hoarded an enormous amount of cash: their bank deposits hit $23tn in 2024, exceeding GDP by more than 20 per cent. A gradual renminbi revaluation would help repair household balance sheets and lift confidence to spend. China also enjoys far more monetary and fiscal policy space than Japan did: real interest rates remain high amid zero inflation, and the reserve requirement ratio — the proportion of deposits banks must park at the central bank — hovers above 6 per cent (versus zero in the US and 1 per cent in the EU and Japan).>There are indications this is starting to happen. The People’s Bank of China operates a managed floating exchange rate system that allows the renminbi to fluctuate within a plus or minus 2 per cent range around a “midpoint”. Lately, it has set the midpoint on an appreciation trend, which signals to the market that the central bank believes appreciation is warranted. However, this shift so far is timid; the bank could adopt a bolder policy to guide market expectations for a much stronger renminbi.https://archive.is/8UJVw>>2577505>economist>alibabacringe
>>2576611It's not about the value it brings in for China. It's about undercutting Western industry and making it impossible for them to build the industrial base necessary to compete with China militarily.
>>2577221its not that complicated tbh, 3% show support for independence, leftists in okinawa have been decimated recently, last i checked they had lost 40+ local elections in a row to pro american bases lawmakers. the saddest thing these wins literally stem from china sailing its warships around okinawa and rightists using this as ammo to run on
>>2577154Robespierre would be proud
Good morning my Xi Jinping Thought Army.
This is an extremely good read. Its an article by a Chinese Marxist within China who is writing about the various political spheres within the CPC.
https://mltoday.com/seven-currents-of-social-thought-in-people-s-china/>>2577604please XI force feed me public infrastructure
>>2577625Interesting article anon. Though being from 2012 it is a lil outdated I imagine. I wonder how things have changed in relation to these currents presently. Which ones have grown and diminished in comparison with each other? Did any new ones emerge or old ones die? etc
>>2577644I think the New-Left faction is stronger than the "traditional marxist" (Maoist) faction. He was talking from the Academy of Marxist thought which is part of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, it has a website I think.
>>2577645The most concerning one is neoliberalism, which I imagine has stayed steady or has grown. In general it's interesting/worrying how much western economic and ideological influence there is in China. Then again, as we see with China's influence today, that's also a two way street
>>2577649I doubt the neoliberals have a genuine foothold because it goes against everything China has fought for since Tiannamen, especially the whole splitting the CPC into a billion different parties.
>>2577650Yeah but you gotta consider that neoliberalism is a real system with real influence in a world that China is heavily integrated in. Whether the Chinese are subjectively against it doesn't mean that it cannot slowly infect them over time. I don't think it's a big threat either, but it's somewhat worrying. Without a more recent comparison to measure their development as a current in China we can't really draw conclusions either way I think
>>2577361>The lowest opinions of China come from IsraelisOf course, even Israelis know China is not a friend of Israel
>>2577650>>2577655maybe I'm being too optimist with this, but I have been reading on jin liqun because of his (previously unknown) epstein connection, and it seems to me, from what I have seen, that the party uses these neoliberals and aspiring westerners to interface with the west but they are politically irrelevant. more cynically, there is a limit on how many things you can give to figureheads, specially when at the same time the government is trying to reinforce the "rule of law", before they start leveraging that institutional power to change the political direction of the government
>>2577659but the trade…. the labubus…. usapol told me china and israel are besties…. did they…. did they lie?! are they reactionary? americans? reactionary?!
>>2577897Worse. They don't read.
>>2576950>>2576948no it isn't because the ryukyu are a distinct culture who were subject to colonial violence and erasure by the japs, then colonial and sexual violence by the yanks after they built their army base. taiwan is 100% chinese and not even the taiwanese dispute this.
taiwan is more like ukraine which is a fake country that was set up by fascists during operation barbarossa and operation gladio, speaks the exact same language as russia, and was retained as a useful extraterritorial zone to make backchannel deals with the west in and order embargoed technologies to so they could be smuggled across the border more easily.
>>2577975Taiwan does actually have an indigenous population.
>>2577361>>2577361That's def true anecdotally from my experience, most people range from finding china impressive but explaining away their gains to wanting to emulate and work with china.
>>2577980So what, the last time they had state control it was because the Dutch colonial forces placed them in power to massacre the Han population.
What's the essential /CHINA/ readings, bros?
>>2577896reminder that he surmised that socialism will likely come about in advance western countries because they had the most advance productive forces and he was writing the communist manifesto with that in mind.
he even says
>These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.this means that the development of the socialist project in a post colonial agrarian countries will not be the same as socialist development in advance western countries. marx's view is not actually rigid as often claim, he mainly gives direction and a method call dialectical materialism. by the end of his life, he even allows for different starting points and uneven development, with his writings in his letters on russia.
when china established a dotp with the founding of the PRC in 1949, it was still agrarian and technologically backwards and far behind the west. its industrial output was tiny and like 1% of its population would even be considered proletariats in the marxist sense. so mao's central goal was to build a strong industrial base that is necessary for socialism in marxist theory as well as modernize society by improving living standards and urbanization.
by the late 1970s, the prc did achieve some basic industrialization and improved the quality of life for its people with a dramatic increase in life expectancy and literacy. however, china still remained overwhelmingly rural with subsistence farming being the norm. there was still limited connectivity between rural areas and industrial centers. most people were living in extreme poverty and they were far behind in living standards to the west as many did not have access to electricity, running water, or modern healthcare.
according to historical materialism, the capitalist phase is considered necessary before socialism. marx even admired capitalism, not morally, but as a historical force in its ability to revolutionize the productive faster than previous modes of production. he also says,
>The bourgeois mode of production is the last antagonistic form of the social process of production but the productive forces developing within bourgeois society create also the material conditions for a solution of this antagonism.so when the khmer rouge claimed it established communism, that would be considered utopian delusion by marx. the people were extremely poor and agrarian. they would be skipping both the capitalist and the socialist stage without the productive forces being highly developed and beyond post scarcity. deng's central insight is that he did not believe china needed to go "full capitalism" like russia after the fall of the USSR. however, china had already went through their social revolutionary by mao, so he would keep the DOTP intact with political power being monopolized by the CPC. the heights of the commands would be owned under the CPC. deng believes that PRC, under CPC guidance could rapidly increase the productive forces faster than capitalism. deng used SEZs to strictly control capital flows and guard against foreign capital from accruing power. he required foreign companies to transfer tech along with joint ownership if they wanted to set up shop in china. the PRC sought to harvest capitalism’s productive power, while avoiding capitalism’s political hegemony. thus, the logic of capital is tactically deployed, but the logic of socialism (planning, class leadership of the proletariat through the party) still hegemonizes the system. in a capitalist society, the logic of capitalism hegemonizes the system.
by the way, you should also highlight
>centralization of credit in the hands of the state they have a monopoly on banking and can easily issue immense flow of credit to an industry based on five year plans.
>centralization of the means of communicationtelecoms are state owned. news organizations are state owned. tv networks and film studios are state owned. they have a great firewall and golden shares in tech companies so companies aligns with national priorities
>centralization of transportrail, roads, airlines, airports, highways, mass transit, ports, maritime lanes are owned by the state
>extensions of factories and instruments of production owned by the statethey have it to a significant extent, commanding heights of the economy are owned by the state aka the slogan of "grasping the large, letting go of the small," so not fully highlighted. the goal is to accelerate the productive forces as rapidly as possible. allowing decentralize entrepreneurship initiative, while carefully watching over it and keeping power over it, has led to deepseek, byd, unitree, etc., and will also further develop the new quality productive forces so the relations of production can eventually transform (marx says, "The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionizing the instruments of production." advancing the productive forces drives changes to the relations of production as per historical materialism, this is essentially weaponizing dialectical materalism so post-scarcity productive forces can be achieved (AI automation, abundant renewable energy, nuclear fission, etc), the bourgeoise becomes their own gravedigger.
>combination of agriculture with manufacturing industriesthis has accelerated in the past few decades where rural regions host factories, food processing plants, and light manufacturing, are closely linked to agricultural output. highways, railways, and logistics networks connect rural areas to industrial and urban markets. during mao's era there were barely any highways and most rural roads were unpaved.
>free education for all children in public schools and abolition of child laborall children are entitled to free education and laws have been passed that prohibit employing children, with offending employers getting harshly punished
>the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.over the past decade in particular, china has made massive projects for cultivating the wastelands and improving the soil. there's the three-north shelterbert forest program which aims to rehabilitate former'wastelands, deserts, and degraded soils by planting forests or grasslands. nasa study shows a quarters of the world new reforestation comes from china. china has launched multiple regional ecological restoration efforts like soil erosion control in the plateau regions, desertification control, paddy field expansion, terracing and contour farming, irrigation and water magenent projects, etc. during the 18th national congress of the CPC in 2012, xi talks specifically about "the development of an ecological civilization" and it is now integral to china's five year plans.
>gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution over the countryafter the costal cities became developed, china's regional disparity has been shrinking for the past two decades due to targeted poverty alleviation initiatives. gini index has gone from 0.43 to .35 in a decade. also, reducing income inequality is not the only measure of equailty.
study shows the inequality gap between educational outcomes in rural and ruban areas is shrinking.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10877417/the inequality gap in health outcomes between rural and urban areas is narrowing as well
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9566669/ >>2578056I've only read the first edition of The Governance of China
>>2578069>reminder that he surmised that socialism will likely come about in advance western countries because they had the most advance productive forces and he was writing the communist manifesto with that in mind.ok but now it is china who has the most advanced productive forces while the west has fallen behind. Marx's point wasn't about the west abstractly, but about whichever place had the most advanced productive forces, which is now objectively china.
>>2578069>so when the khmer rouge claimed it established communism, that would be considered utopian delusion by marx. Wrong. Angkar was not utopian. Angkar eliminated all exploiters. Angkar abolished the system of exploitation. Angkar destroyed the semi-feudal semi-capitalist base and superstructure and built Communist material substructure. Angkar achieved Communism.
>>2577156>grrr they're lifting people out of poverty [] in a way I don't likeLiterally Karl Marx.
Read a fucking book, desperate sycophant. We need you thinking before the revolution comes.
Frankly I don't even care if Ryukyu is colonized or not, I just want Japan to lose territory.
>>2578177yea, i was more replying specifically to that page of the communist manifesto and give context to it and what the anon highlighted. the anon is tryng to constrast marx and deng. i think marx is right! and so does deng!
although at the time of writing the communist manifesto marx did think socialism would form first in britain, france and germany because they had the most advance productive forces, later he changed his minds with his letters on russia like i said.
in my mind, paradoxically, it may be “easier” for a vanguard party (like the Bolsheviks or CPC) to seize the state in their historical conditions, after studying marxism, because the bourgeoisie was weak or non-existent and state institutions were fragile or in crisis. by contrast, in advanced capitalist democracies, bourgeois class power is deeply entrenched, economically, politically, and ideologically. also through the spoils of imperalism, capitalism was able to adapt (e.g. reforms, welfare states) and become resilient. i think a revolutionary transformation in the west may possibly be far more chaotic, contested, and violent now due to how much power the bourgeoisie have accrued particularly in countries like the US.
>china who has the most advanced productive forcesnot necessarily. they lead in some areas (EVs, batteries, drone tech, solar tech, 5g, etc) but they're still behind in computer hardware, lithography, photoresist, commercial aviation and other areas. they are rapidly catching up tho, all the more impressive cosnidering in the 1980s, a toilet was a luxury in china and now they have their own space station, a rover on mars, and DJI is the world's top drone manufacturer.
>>2574202>the value is created in the Northretarded nonsense
trace the life cycle of any commodity and it's plain to see that there's an immense value transfer going on from the third world to the imperial core
the value of western labor power is higher because their cost of reproduction is higher, but the labor required to reproduce westerners is itself performed in the south
your very flesh and bones are made out of southern labor
>>2578241This and more important for the USA to lose the critical military base there
>>2577980>>2578038taiwan's indigenous population are largely against taiwanese independence, mainly since the latter is mainly promoted by hokkien 本省人 who have feuded with taiwanese indigenous people over land, and since the DPP's minimizing of japanese colonialism in an attempt to construct an independent taiwanese identity really annoys them, since taiwanese indigenous people bore the brunt of colonial repression
>>2578270> the anon is tryng to constrast marx and deng.I am the anon. I wasn't trying to contrast Marx and Deng, I was trying to compare them. My God. I highlighted Marx saying "state capital" the thought-terminating cliche always leveled at "Dengism" (Marxism) in China.
>>2578511Westerners really thought they could support a population of a billion while just being "the ideas guys" while the Asians did all the labor lmao. Ideas can be learned. The world isn't in need of endless "innovation." Proccesses can be perfected, and then the value of innovation drops to zero. Now they think they can stay on top with data centers running on diesel generators lmao.
>>2578650tbh i didn't see what you were replyng to. i was just copy pasting the same reply i posted to someone who also used that image in a thread about deng and revisionism, sorry!
>>2573064 but maybe that was you as well and i didn't understand what it meant
>>2578623Yeah on the other hand the KMT has handed out a lot of benefits to rural/indigenous areas and is considered the government which replaced the colonial japanese and developed the country.
>>2577583Robespierre was based
>>2577119Did le international left save the USSR?
>>2578511Just repeating the same bullshit a trillion times won't make it true
>>2578069>so when the khmer rouge claimed it established communism, that would be considered utopian delusion by marx. when exactly did they claim establishing communism already? they only claimed that the glorious victory of april 17th was a
socialist revolution, and they would be going forward
>The old relations of production, based upon exploitation and oppression, have been abolished and the new, independent, equal, socialist and collective production order is being gradually consolidated and developed. <…> The general situation of our own socialist revolution shows that we have laid the foundations of our collectivist socialism. Therefore, we must continue to strengthen them, develop and improve them unceasingly.>In the effort for national reconstruction, our [Communist] Party [of Kampuchea] bases itself on the concrete conditions in the country. Ours is a backward agricultural country, which has been devastated by the destructive war of aggression waged by U.S. imperialism. With complete confidence, we rely on the powerful revolutionary spirit, experience and creative ingenuity of our people. We take agriculture as the basic factor and use the fruits of agriculture to build industry, in order to rapidly transform Kampuchea from a backward agricultural state into a modernized one. We also intend to rapidly transform the backward, agricultural Kampuchea into an industrialized country by standing firmly on the principles of independence, initiative and self-reliance.<LONG LIVE THE 17TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF KAMPUCHEA - Speech by Pol Pot. [General] Secretary of the Central Committee of the [Communist Party of Kampuchea]; Delivered on September 29, 1977 >>2577377>why even fall for the trap of bourgeois "international law".China wants to make the UN a multilateral one world government, they want to make schizo uncles dreams come true. Eventually they will use UN 377 to coalition of willing against the burgers, but not till its too big to fail. They are currently greasing the flywheel instead of melting it down for scrap.
>>2579476>China wants to make the UN a multilateral one world governmentthey just don't though
>>2579370I mean despite that Pol Pot speech, the Khmer Rouge tried to abolish class, money, markets, property overnight by force when they seized power. This is basically an attempt to enact Marx's discription of communism. Their logic was, "if we abolish everything, communism will appear." That's the voluntarist trap. They expected the productive forces to catch up to the social order imposed. Where for Marx and Engels, during the transitional stage, socialism slowly gives way to a higher phase as productive forces and material conditions mature.
>>2579556westoid anarchists, maoists and other libcoms uphold the same line as pol pot
"abolish everything and sit atop a pile of corpses in edenic utopia"
>>2579556You are totally wrong. You espouse imperialist propaganda. Angkar sucessfully eliminated capitalism. Angkar built unprecedented productive forces despite bombardment from both imperialist and fascist revisionist social imperialist. The imperialists and social imperialists dropped millions of tons of bombs on the revolution. You say, "Abolishing capitalism is a voluntarist trap." You are totally wrong. You are revisionist. Abolishing capitalism is the only choice when millions of tons of bombs are dropped on your head. You are the voluntarist who defies fact. Angkar did nothing wrong
>>2579770your style of trolling is possibly the most annoying on the entire site congratulations
>>2579782The only ones trolling are you and the others who attack Angkar. When an anti-Communist lies, they may be crushed
>>2579769is it wrong though. not in a bad way and maybe not a government in a top down sense but they do want to be able to use it for a harmonious shared future for mankind or however you say it
>>2577374You really shouldn't allow associations to instantly terminate your willingness to engage with people. This is radlib tier behavior, and it's very reactionary.
>>2579831Agreed. Radlib behavior IS reactionary
>>2579770Ieng Sary was a capitalist ideologue. Facts are facts!
>>2579875Correct. Sary should have been shot long before he betrayed the revolution
>>2579833Then why do you recreate radlib behavior with your unwillingness to engage people over trivial nonsense?
>>2579918By 'over trivial nonsense', I mean to say your apprehensions are trivial nonsense and you might as well get over them and engage
>>2579915>hopedThey did build stuff like bridges, dams and irrigation channels, though. They were denied the very possibility to attempt industrialization, though
>>2579760>muh abolish everythingWell, let's see:
<The old relations of production, based upon exploitation and oppression, have been abolished and the new, independent, equal, socialist and collective production order is being gradually consolidated and developed.Oh, so they've removed landowners and kulaks from the equation. Why do you people read this as "achieved communism" or "sit atop a pile of corpses in edenic utopia"? Are you secretly rightoids who organically cannot understand the text they are reading?
>>2579924Yeah, you're right. You get my point though
>>2579951>uploaded 14 minutes agoYou were quick with this one anon. Nice to see China doing stuff with the palestinians in the West Bank. I wonder how difficult it was to develop this road network with all the controls, checkpoints and settlements of the zionists
>>2579951thats nice but they really need to nuke israel (and washington)
>>2578056Revolution and counter revolution in china
>>2579556>abolish class, money, markets, property overnight by forcethere was a sizeable material basis for money abolition, during lon nol's US-backed regime (and prior to that, king sihanouk's reckless spending to fund his personal music and film projects) the cambodian riel became practically worthless
before April 17th they did print new banknotes of the cambodian riel in the friendly people's republic of china, but they were almost never in circulation and are purely collectors' items now
>As the CPK debated the elimination of money, the regime printed samples of the new national currency in December 1973. The revolutionary currency consisted of different sizes and colors, displaying images of heroic male and female Khmer Rouge soldiers in battle, laborers operating heavy machinery in factories, and workers planting rice in the fields. The five riel note included a picture of Angkor Wat. The printing of the new banknotes may seem at odds with the mindset of the CPK leadership, but it was emblematic of the regime’s tentative approach and evolving thoughts on the subject. Originally intended to be introduced to the liberated zones by the end of 1974 (banknotes from the Lon Nol government had already been phased out in several regions), the new currency was withheld by the Central Committee, which wanted to wait until the Khmer Rouge controlled all of Cambodia before circulating it. >In January 1975, Pol Pot’s old friend, Ping Say, brought a full set of the new money, printed in China, to CPK leaders via the Ho Chi Minh Trail. In May 1975, it was decided that new currency would be gradually circulated in various regions, even though Angkar had issued an edict to withhold the new banknotes just one month earlier. Within a few months, a regional commander named Pich Chheang began to distribute the new currency in region 41 of the Northern Zone as an experiment. A national banking system was proposed around the same time. >According to one survivor of the Pol Pot era, posters showing the new currency appeared in Prek Po district, and some of the banknotes were exchanged with village leaders for rice. Despite these trial runs, the new currency was discontinued as the CPK reconsidered the policy.<The Barter Economy of the Khmer Rouge Labor Camps - Scott Pribble, 2024picrel - some of the DK banknotes, 1975 "Pol Pot Regime" Issue.
reposting because i fucked up some of the formatting<http://www.banknote.ws/COLLECTION/countries/ASI/CMB/CMB.htm#BANK%20OF%20KAMPUCHEA >>2580114these chinletts are so cucked western uncle toms that they were screaming at the protest 'chinks out'
>>2580006incredibly based government
>>2580006That's a good thing. Once people have shown themselves to be rehabilitated, they deserve to be given a fresh start.
>>2569101>arabsI bet you think Iran are Arabs you fucking dumb motherfucker.
>>2580173I mean yeah sometimes doing the right thing isn't about what benefit you can get out of it.
>>2580173no responsibility but a moral one. but you are right they don't have a legal obligation. unfortunately for us dumb stupid moralists (post the marx moralism quote so funny lol) the PRC does have a current of isolationist ethno nationalism to it. so yeah, it's government will rather continue not jeopardize any of it's trademaxxing by sticking it's neck out for some filthy fucking ayyrabs.
So Chinas basically the best country on Earth right now. I plan to visit soon, but how long do you all think China will be giga based for?
>>2580195i see the tendency of PRC industry to blindly follow western market trends regardless of their value to real material productivity (for example various applications of AI) as negative and perhaps a degradation of the zealous ideological dedication that is needed from the leadership at the top of the party. if that degradation continues i could see the PRC pulling a USSR some decades into the futures. i hope not though
>>2580199>AI badImagine being this stupid
>>2580194If the issue is moral vs. legal responsibility, then yes.. you’re right that states operate almost entirely on material interest rather than moral obligation. The state looks after itself, ALL STATES DO.
>Even Marx pointed out that moral judgment detached from material analysis is powerless.So yeah China isn’t going to take risks for causes that don’t serve its national strateg, but that’s a function of realpolitik, not some unique cultural trait. Every major power does the same when the costs outweigh the gains.
>>2579915>That wasn't the case though. It's pretty clear from Khmer Rouge proclamations, speeches and documents.Yeah, and there's a difference between rhetoric and reality. They produced propaganda claiming they were at the lower stage of communism, while completely going against Marxist, Soviet, or Chinese models.
The Khmer Rouge attempted a rapid near-total abolition of money, markets, private property, wages, urban life, family and traditional social structures, over a night in April 1975. Cities were completely emptied. Money was formally abolished. People were forced into agrarian labor communes immediately. All markets were shut down. Their system was radically agrarian and anti-industrial in practice. In 1975, Khmer Rouge representatives to China, Khieu Samphan and Khieu Thirith, said that Pol Pot's belief was that the collectivisation of agriculture was capable of "creating a complete communist society without wasting time on the intermediate steps."
>>2580213>The Khmer Rouge attempted a rapid near-total abolition of money, markets, private property, wages, urban life, family and traditional social structures, over a night in April 1975.They didn't.
>Cities were completely emptied.They had a fucking famine going on, for fuck's sake. How are you going to supply cities with food when Americans are bombing out any kind of goods transportation you are attempting? Fuck you
>Money was formally abolished.Cambodia was a semi-feudal shithole that had money only for the landowners and cities. Peasantry was living with barter, and kept a bunch of coins under their beds. What fucking money abolition lmao, they didn't have a money system to begin with. Add to that military destruction of assets and logistics, and money just didn't exist for Cambodians - without any kind of abolition
>People were forced into agrarian labor communes immediately.Oh noes, Cambodians had to suffer kulaks JUST BECAUSE OF MUH STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT nonsense, how DARE THEY simply organize peasants (alongside kulaks anyway, like Yugoslavia did, so you have nothing to complain about, you anarkiddie) for improved productivity of labor during the times of direst need?
>All markets were shut down.This I don't know about, but I have a guy feeling that this is a straight up lie. What are the logistics of prohibition of markets? Are westoids simply project the inability to buy anything from peasants, because they didn't have fucking anything to trade with, as an abolition of markets/
>Pol Pot's beliefLiterally doesn't matter because Cambodia was democratic.
>>Pol Pot's belief
>Literally doesn't matter because Cambodia was democratic.
Yes, you are correct that despite all of the romantic socialist dreams of Pol Pot DR was heading down a capitalist road.
>>2580238>the capitalist road… of abolishing money, private property and driving people out of citiesPol Pot was right about the glass wearing intellectuals
>>2568861Can China enforce sanctions through economic coercion? No, because China doesn't control the international financial system. It can't bully other countries to not trade with Israel like the USA did with Cuba. The only way a blockade would be effective is if the entire world joined in against Israel, the same way the USSR and the USA did against South Africa. That won't happen in the case of Israel. Furthermore, the reason American sanctions are effective (or have been effective until now, as the sanction regimes against Cuba, North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, etc. are clearly failing) is because they control the global financial system. Why doesn't China control the international financial system? Because it is not an imperialist power and does not desire to become one. Enforcing sanctions without total economic hegemony leads to cases like the notoriously ineffective EU sanctions against Russia.
Why doesn't China use its military to subjugate Israel and enforce Palestinian sovereignty? Becuase China can't project military power outside far away from its borders. Why? Because China is, again, not an imperialist power and it doesn not aspire to become an imperialist power.
>>2580246China doesn't need sanctions because cutting access to Chinese market is a measure devastating enough
>>2580220Dude, this is all well documented. Saying "Nuh-uh" doesn't change that. The Khmer Rouge intended to empty the cities after victory as part of their ideological plan, not as a logistical or emergency reaction. The bombing was over almost two years before the evacuations so your logic doesn't make sense. Pol Pot, Nuong Chea, Khieu Samphan long believed that the future of Cambodia lay in radical agrarianism and pushed rural life as revolutionary purity and for the destruction of urban society. During their collectivization, family separation was common and intentional because they were abolishing traditional kinship ties. This is an extreme leap in the relations of productions, and once again contradicting Marx’s fundamental theory that relations of production must evolve from the level of productive development. Also, money absolutely existed particularly in cities. Whether peasants already bartered doesn’t negate that the state outlawed currency. You already contradicted yourself in the first sentence.
>>2580213>>2580213You are 100% wrong.
>Yeah, and there's a difference between rhetoric and reality. They produced propaganda claiming they were at the lower stage of communism, while completely going against Marxist, Soviet, or Chinese models. Angkar had achieved lower phase of socialism. Capitalist relations were abolished. The system of exploitation was abolished and socialist substructure was built. Angkar adhered to Mao Thought, so you are totally wrong.
>The Khmer Rouge attempted a rapid near-total abolition of money, markets, private property, wages, urban life, family and traditional social structures, over a night in April 1975. You say this like its a bad thing. Like this isnt Communism. Thats because you are stagist fool who says nonsense like, "Angkar should have allowed capitalism to run its course over decades as millions of tons of bombs were dropped on the People." That is why you are wrong.
>Cities were completely emptied. The city dwellers were all french colonizers and compradors. Of course they were emptied out. You speak for colonizers and imperialists as if they never had a choice. Angkar gave them new life and chance for redemption. They could live and work and feed the people but many rather die.
>Money was formally abolished. You are being redundant. You said this already. You think we are stupid like you.
>People were forced into agrarian labor communes immediately. All markets were shut down. Their system was radically agrarian and anti-industrial in practice. In 1975, Khmer Rouge representatives to China, Khieu Samphan and Khieu Thirith, said that Pol Pot's belief was that the collectivisation of agriculture was capable of "creating a complete communist society without wasting time on the intermediate steps."Angkar was not "anti-industrial." Funkopop cannot feed the people. Funkopop cannot till the soil. Chairman Mao said socialized agriculture is the basis of all Communist economy and that is what Angkar built.
>>2580244Cities were not the origin of capitalism, they origins of capitalism was the organization of peasant lands under capitalist organization. And this was indeed the plan of people in the KR.
>>2580255Wrong. The social fascists had bombarded Khmer peasants for 5 and one half years after amerikkkans stopped bombing them. You think that Angkar had a choice. If you think that to choose food for the starving people or to feed useless comprador and french colonist is a decision at all, then you are not leftist
>>2580255>Dude, this is all well documented.Goebbels-level propaganda is a well-documented proof of goebbels-level propaganda, not of Khmer Rouge intents and actions
unironic pol-potists in my china thread? It's not even christmas yet!
>>2580255>>2580269And before you bitch out about me having to prove something, that I have to think of all the innocents killed by Khmers, have i no shame?!?!, NO U. It seems like all kinds of proof-based systems have adopted presumption of innocence; heuristically, it makes much more sense to assume that a person is innocent, and having to prove his guilt, rather than the opposite; it's the same in science, where we have to prove something exists rather than to prove that it doesn't.
So, in other words, think of all those great, progressive, bright people who you are spreading lies and slander about. After all, there is no proof that their victims are even real in the first place. Why should we cry about Khmer Rouge's victims, if their existance isn't proven at all?
>>2579926These tards genuinely believe communism is when you take control of the capitalist state
>>2580273>>2580273>Khmer RougeThis is wrong. "Khmer Rouge" is a french colonialist slur created by the prince and the CIA.
The correct name is "Angkar" or Communist Party of Kampuchea. Please use the correct terms
China.
>>2580279Wrong. Khmer Rouge was a term of the patriot Norodom Sihanouk who was courted by DK as Head of State.
>>2580114Korea is more of a Cuckistan than the U.S. They could pretty easily knock out their Chaebols but they won’t. They get caught in these dumb culture wars.
>>2580262>Capitalist relations were abolished. The system of exploitation was abolished and socialist substructure was built.Some indigenous tribe in Brazil do not have capitalist relations. That doesn't mean they are historically progressive or the leading societies in socialism.
>Angkar adhered to Mao ThoughtDifference between theory and practice. Mao never abolished money, markets, wages, or kinship networks. Khmer Rouge tried to freaking do that overnight lol, lmao even. At no point did the PRC under Mao forcibly emptied their cities. Mao even permited private economic activity to supply goods where state capacity was limited. Mao believed China needed to develop its productive forces to an advance level before all those things could be abolished.
>Like this isnt Communism.It's not.
>Thats because you are stagist fool I'm talking about historical materialism, you know, the fucking foundations of Marxism. Mao had a DotP and once again, believed China needed to develop its productive forces to an advance level before China could abolish what the Khmer Rouge did overnight.
>The city dwellers were all french colonizers and compradorsThis is just completely false.
>>2580267Food supply was difficult, but that was not the reason for evacuation as the cities were emptied even when rural areas were ill-prepared. It was not emergency measure. It was planned as part of their ideological program after their victory and connected to Year Zero. They emptied the cities as part of a broader ideological program, and one of the central goals was to sever family and social ties. They reshaped the
all aspects of the relations of production immediately, without regard for the development of productive forces. It goes far beyond MZT. This is ultra voluntarism.
>>2580311>Mao believed China needed to develop its productive forces to an advance level before all those things could be abolishedAnd the CPC still believes this no matter what coping ultras on this site say. The material conditions will continue to improve.
>>2580114these are right-wingers who support Yoon, want to justify the coup attempt, and want south Korea to forever be subservient to the US. they're the heirs to the tradition of collaboration with Imperial Japan. they want to remain junior partners in the US-Japan alliance
They protested his impeachment while carrying "Stop the Steal" signs and waving US flags. They're a combination of the usual old, retired people of the Taegukgi budae (who are often paid to protest) and the new generation of anti-feminist "angry young men"
>Men in their 20s and 30s, disillusioned by a perceived lack of social mobility, played a pivotal role in Yoon’s victory in the last presidential election, driven by anti-feminist sentiments and enthusiastic support for pledges like abolishing the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taegukgi_rallieshttps://en.namu.wiki/w/%ED%83%9C%EA%B7%B9%EA%B8%B0%20%EC%A7%91%ED%9A%8CIn the summer, Morse Tan, Dean of Liberty University School of Law and former US ambassador-at large for global criminal justice, went to Seoul National University to make a speech and rally support for Yoon, while claiming China was trying to take control of s. Korea with "fake ballots."
Tan also claimed the reason President Lee Jae-myung wasn't able to finish junior high and high school was because he was in juvenile detention for gang rape and murder. The actual reason was because he had to work at a factory from an early age due to extreme poverty.
>>2568861communism doesn't depend on the existence of this or that people
>>2580213>They produced propaganda claiming they were at the lower stage of communismplease provide any kind of primary source of their propaganda - speeches, survivor interviews, scans/translations of their periodicals (there were multiple such as Tung Padevat/Revolutionary Flag), etc.
so far you are going against everything stated before itt
>>2580238it's so fucking over
>>2580269TRVTH NVKE>>2580311>It was planned as part of their ideological program after their victory and connected to Year Zero.>Year Zero"year zero" is a complete fabrication of a romantic journalist that likened KR policy to the french revolution, the CPK themselves never used that term
https://substack.com/@lachlanpeters/p-152552569 sage for doubleposting, could we please continue discussing anything related to democratic kampuchea that is not connected to china in
>>2547919 some democratic kampuchea/PRC leadership interaction images for thread tax:
>pic 2<Senior leaders of Democratic Kampuchea (DK) waiting for the arrival of the Chinese delegation at the Po-chen-tong International Airport, Phnom Penh. Chinese Ambassador to DK, Sun Hua, is standing second from the left. DK senior leaders from right to left: Ieng Thirith, Minister of Social Affairs; Yun Yat, Minister of Education and Culture; Pol Pot; Ieng Sary, Minister of Foreign Affairs; Vorn Vet, Minister of Economics; Nuon Chea, President of People's Assembly and Khieu Ponnary. Others are unidentified. >>2580594>sage for doubleposting<forgets to sagewhy am i like this?
>>2580594>Ieng ThirithFantasy name
>>2580630very western of you. she is the sister of ieng sary (ieng being the family name) aka brother number 3
>>2580648>Ieng Sary>Vorn Vet>Khieu Ponnary>Nuon CheaI expect elves to have lived in Democratic Kampuchea, genocided by Khmer Rouge for being reactionary kulaks handing out silly fantasy names
>>2580173the same people in usapol who call you a moralist faggot if you demand the US stop actively turning children int pasta sauce all over the world will cry foul for china not cleaning up america's mess. curious!
these are also the same crpyto-groypers who think the US was "le good" until 1948 when israel "took over" america by…. bribing the most bribeable greedpigs, and blackmailing the most blackmailable lustpigs >After the Paris Agreements of October 1991 were signed, China’s presences inside Cambodia increased as Hun Sen started informal relationship with Beijing after the coup in 1997. Hun Sen Visited Beijing in 1999. Following the past decades, Hun Sen has cultivated ties with China, expelling Taiwan’s unofficial liaison office from Phnom Penh, and now [has] buried the past and is embracing China, which he sees as a means of bringing economic development to Cambodia. <…> China reportedly also has provided military and police training and in return, Cambodia has voiced its support of the “one-China” principle, despite its significant economic relations with Taiwan. The normalisation of relations were signalled when Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao visited Cambodia in April 2006, he pledged US$600 million in aid reinforcing the tie between the two countries.
>In 2010 the Chinese ambassador to the Kingdom of Cambodia, Zhang Jinfeng announced that the People’s Republic of China had never politically engaged with Pol Pot or the Democratic Kampuchea regime, she argued instead that Chinese assistance was humanitarian and limited to “food, hoes, and scythes.”
<What could she mean?>China had supported the pre-1975 National United Front of Kampuchea (FUNK), and maintained close diplomatic ties with the regime after they came to power. It was one of only nine countries to keep an embassy in the country after April 1975. China had been the principal international supporter of the Democratic Kampuchea regime, acting as its main aid supplier, China was the only country to have any substantial presence there; there were thousands of Chinese technical experts living in the country. After the Vietnamese occupation of 1979, [China] maintained material and diplomatic support for the resistance forces and eventually the formation of a four-party government.>Pol Pot’s only official visit outside Cambodia while in power as the leader [of] Democratic Kampuchea was to China and North Korea. He arrived in Beijing [on] 28 September 1977 and departed for Pyongyang on October 4, returning [to] China a week later and returning to Cambodia on 22 October 1977. He signed agreements for increased military aid, training, and other assistance with both countries during this trip.
<https://cambodiatokampuchea.wordpress.com/2018/01/20/brothers-in-arms/>>2580564 (me)
shadows of utopia mentioned ! ! man i certainly hope the GOAT doesn't browse leftypol, that would be a horrifying experience for him
especially the dedicated threads shoutout to /auspol/ i suppose
>>2580179Shut up, Christian
>>2580249But China can't afford to apply secondary sanctions when Israel inevitably buys through various third parties from the US to Germany to Jordan to Azerbaijan.
>>2580179No great power has this Christian selfless mindset. You know why? Because no state operating on such an impractical mindset can rise to become a great power.
>>2579926>>2580276Notice the passive voice in that quote.
You don't abolish things, things are abolished as consequences of material change.
In the original german, aufheben has the connotations of "to dispell (a curse)"
marx & engels were gradualists and developmentalists, despite what westoid quasi-christian redwashed anarchist "marxists" would like to believe
>>2581112b-but muh communism button! think about the relations of production!
I dont know how China could have avoided staying behind technologically without the Deng reforms, whats the anti-revisionist answer to this?
>>2581112I don't disagree with your point but in german Aufheben means more like to formally dissolve or abolish, like you could use it so say something like "we're dissolving the company". Entomologically it can be describes as something like to lift up/pick up, or elevate. To dispel (a curse) also works, but that has a decisively negative direction whereas aufheben is more neutral
>>2581224Yeah, I just wanted to highlight the kind of poetic connotations of "aufheben" inherited from hegel and german gothic literature, because I think it emphasizes the notion that the things we want to "abolish" are like "spells" in that they are social relations, ghostly things that "take hold of us", rather than "things" in the analytical/positivist sense, so you don't "cancel" them directly, you "dispel" them by altering the things that give rise to them.
>>2581207The answer is that dogmatism and schematic thinking is revisionism.
Adapting to the concrete historical and material conditions at hand is the soul of marxism, applying marxism as an abstract schema for everywhere for all time IS revisionism.
>>2581247That's a good way to look at it, I think I agree. In a related sense I think it's also interesting that aufheben has a very formal implication, it's almost like declaring the official dissolution of something that's already no longer there, just the form remains, which will now be "abolished" because the reason for that form to exist is no longer there as a base, but it's not the aufhebung itself that ends the thing, it's more of a formal acknowledgement of the facts and making it officially over.
>"Partial recognition of the social character of the productive forces forced upon the capitalists themselves. Taking over of the great institutions for production and communication, first by joint-stock companies, later on by trusts, then by the state. The bourgeoisie demonstrated to be a superfluous class. All of its social functions are now performed by salaried employees."
China is imperialist capitalist, though.
>>2582135Le so called phase "D" (as in dick) of le capitalism eh?
>>2581498>le spending and taxes are bad<ignores that china has a massive industrial policy and isnt afraid to tax porkyhmmm
Remember those hysterics about "Wumao"?
https://nitter.net/cobta/status/1995812227870556414>Mass-produced Japanese-language YouTube videos of "Japan is amazing" and "China is awful" are being commissioned on CrowdWorks. They even have labels like "Japan Praise Type" and "China Criticism Type."2k to 4k yen per video, for contracts of 50k to 100k yen.
<We provide the scripts for videos posted on YouTube, including Japan-praise content, technology-related content, China-critical content, overseas react content, etc.<The job involves finding and collecting appropriate still images, generating images with AI, creating and editing AI voice and subtitles using Vrew, and attaching suitable still images and free-material videos according to the scenes in the video.<[Payment: 2,000–4,000 yen per video]<We create videos about overseas reactions, interesting topics, home appliances, mobile phones, semiconductors, materials, parts, automobiles, railways, Japan’s technology and culture, the beauty of the Japanese language, stories about troublesome or rude behavior by Chinese people, inspirational stories, and more.Daily reminder that the Maoism, devolved Juche and Castroism are all proof that Fascism works.
ᴉuᴉlossnW's mistake was to cuck out to industralists, landlords and other anti-socialists in order to gain power, resulting in their domination of the state. When the state successfully dominates capital, like with China "two of the stars on the flag symbolize the bourgeois", we see even billionaires forced into collaboration in order to serve the corpus, the Chinese Nation.
>but they're just transition states towards a socialist MoP!!
Yeah, maybe. No contradiction.
>>2582255>ᴉuᴉlossnW's mistake was to cuck out to industralistsIt's not a bug, it's a feature of fascsim. Communism works because they don't let industrialists control anything, not even their own property.
I especially love the cynicism of making capitalists pay for the military and police designed to crush porkies under the proletarian boot; it closely mimics how historically the ruling classes forced proletariat and peasantry to pay for their own oppression
>>2582267Also, the ruling class move of STALLING on promises made to the oppressed class, regrouping, and reneging on your promises to oppress even harder. Like Lenin did to Americans, lmao - "wait a bit, we'll give you all kinds of concessions, ahaha, just get rid of Japanese, and there'll be no one else to get those concessions! You'll be monopolists!" and then just like "lol you are alone lmao, you have rebellions at home whne you try to send weapons to your troops in Siberia, so, why don't you excuse yourself out of the door?"
>>2582255your understanding of fascism is the same libtards have
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckgzqxjzjyqoYep. This has hit me like Krondstadt hit the anarchists. China is confirmed a fascist totalitarian state.
>>2582537>some sickos buy childlike sex dolls>now no one can have sex dollsit's so over
>>2582168yeah american lolberts are hilarious
>>2582918Supposedly it had capacity for 6 million people. They could probably refurbish it easily if nuclear tensions rise again.
>>2583389That's cheap as fuck for a hangout spot
I'd do it just for the socialization aspect
>>2583394You remind me of that idiot Blumenthal praising the low price of a chicken worth half a monthly wage in Venezuela because he apparently thought people here were earning the same usians do.
>>2583406I'm a third worlder myself.
Chinese earn the global median wage minus all the socialized shit
>>2583389China will crack down on them the same way they cracked down on lie down and whatever else crap. No pretend work allowed
>>2583389Wtf is pretend work? How does that work? If there is discipline and wage then it is work.
>>2583448Go to a western service economy and find out
>>2583449So it is a work then.
China is in phase D of capitalism as described by Engels in Anti-Duhring (didnt read but trust me bro).
>>2583449>Teachers, Nurses, Flight Attendents, cashiers, stockers, firefighters, waiters, warehouse workers, electricians, plumbers, daycare worekrs, truck drivers aren't LE REAL WORKERS because they're PROVIDING LE SERVICE instead of PRODUCING LE COMMODITY on LE ASSEMBLY LINEplease… stop this nonsense…
>>2583448the article is hysteria per usual. It's called a coworking space and every country has them. in the usa a daypass is like 30$ so the Chinese are getting a pretty sweet deal here. you pretty much do whatever, for the homeless its meant to be used as a resource to network and find jobs online
>>2582193People have already started parodying those retarded "Japan is living in 2050" videos which show someone opening a plastic cup with some kind of bright-colored jelly desert inside
bump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeKu6VpasW0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_9BKd8HtdYIf you all know hindi, these two videos are good imho.
one indian journalist went to china (in its poorest province) to see their poverty elevation program, and found out how the system works,
quick tldr
>the system takes a bottom up approach to create plans. Ground Cadre has a say in policy making> To eliminate corruption five layers of inspections are at work, where the political cadre and educational figures can go for inspection anytime>government provides infrastructure to rural poor citizens so that they can participate in the economy, even providing wifi or digital equipments like mic, to help them share their products on the internet>the party cadre close to 45000 works as volunteer in these rural provinces.Total death to bordigaists, long live PRC
>>2584419>muh povertyThey are kulakising peasantoids and creating a support base for their bourgeoisie regime eh?
>>2584477>improving the material condition of peasants is bourgeoisethe absolute state of bordigatards
>>2584477has bro read the principles of communism
>>2584480USSR did and it was a bourgeois regime.
>>2584480YES IT IS RETARD. IT'S BASIC CAPITALISM. THE PEASANTS MOVE TO THE CITY.
>>2584545If you are to make argument typically you need to know what you're arguing about, yes.
>>2584536Do they? How is moving to city improves peasants life?
>>2584550Ask China lmao. They are the ones who say that "they are solving poverty" that way.
>>2584906Why do the houses look like that lmao
Looks like a cozy European hamlet
>>2584937Xi saw all those western socialist uyghas going "vgh, this is true socialism" to solarpunk bullshit then decided to follow the one true communists opinions
>>2584528>capitalism is the only system to improve the lives of the proletariat.no wonder it didn't(and never will) fall.
>>2584906All good. Not socialism tho. We can be truthful.
>>2584938We did it, reddit. :')
>>2585553China uncensored is literally run by the Fulan Gong btw
>>2585614Strong Europe keep buying Chinese products
>>2585614The death of the frankreich is to the benefit for the Project of the New Chinese Century.
>>2585581Power of dialectical materialism unfolding in front of our eyes
>>2585952Welcome back the Emperor of Japan
>>2585952bro should have hired a japanesse actor bro this is culturalism bro
>>2585952WE all look like this and say this
>>2585952Why's he dressed like a Manchu
>>2585581Stop turning cars into phones, we're already getting tracked why must the last bit of privacy be taken away for useless gadgets? Bring back the ladas, make more cars like ladas, make them drive and make them last, simple as.
https://uldemir-711.livejournal.com/87468.htmlThe author is Evgeny Gusev, a member of the Russian Communist Party (b)
It's just humiliating for the tech giants of the West - the Chinese Huawei artel, having registered as a private company, squeezed these mega-corporations out of their own markets for several decades, while playing by their own rules. Wait, what kind of private artel? Yes, Huawei is actually listed as private both in China itself and in the rest of the world. But after all, there is collective ownership in China, and cooperative ownership is present, someone will even say that there are microscopically few companies with this type of ownership compared to private ones, and they will be completely right. The share of collective and cooperative ownership in China is constantly decreasing, which cannot be said about the share of private companies. Has China betrayed the ideals for which its people have been fighting for so long by practically destroying collective and cooperative property? For those who seriously tell such fables, after reading this article, many uncomfortable questions will appear. Let's start with a little historical background, and leave the main conclusions for the end.
With the formation of the People's Republic of China, small traders and artisans across the country began to join cooperatives, the creation of which was initiated by local authorities. These associations, under the wing of local committees, solved an important problem - providing the population with household items. The task is no less important, in fact, than producing tanks and airplanes. The means of production in these associations belonged to the workers, but often the same local authorities had their influence in them. Such companies had their own “collective" status. At that time, State-owned enterprises often set up collective companies to provide employment for family members of their employees. For example, a state-owned factory could create a collective canteen while maintaining its influence as one of the participants in its development.
That's how collective ownership came about in China, we figured it out. We are approaching 1978, the year of the development of the reforms proposed by Zhou Enlai, which were initiated under Mao Zedong and later received the name “openness reforms” under his disciple Deng Xiaoping.
Collective ownership in towns and villages also exists at this point, but interesting processes are beginning with state-owned companies. In 1979, the State Council of the People's Republic of China selected 8 state-owned enterprises, including Shougang (the largest steel company), in Beijing, Tianjin and Shanghai, for a pilot project of "transfer of authority and benefits." Businesses were allowed to keep a portion of their profits for self-management. This approach showed excellent results and soon began to spread to other state-owned companies.
At the third plenum of the CPC Central Committee of the 12th convocation, the "Decision on the reform of the economic system" was adopted, in which the reform of state-owned enterprises was identified as a key element of urban reform. A policy of "separation of power and enterprises, separation of ownership and management rights" was implemented, the dependence of enterprises on the state decreased, and workers began to receive their percentage of profits. In fact, former state-owned enterprises, in the course of decentralization, in a sense began to become artels, because their employees:
a) got the opportunity to elect the leadership;
b) they began to receive a percentage of the profit.
Even if the government's share in such a company is maintained, the overall picture does not change. Accordingly, the status of such former state-owned companies has become a new one - “collective” or “cooperative" instead of state-owned. From 1978 to 1983, the number of collective enterprises and cooperatives decreased numerically, but their revenue doubled (from 20.8 billion to 40.8 billion yuan), and the number of employees increased to 32.35 million people. This gave an impetus to the development of light industry and improved the balance of the structure of industries. China's collective sector was flourishing.
In 1993, the law “On Companies" was published, which opened a new type of ownership in China. By that time, the vast majority of the non-governmental sector of the PRC was represented by collective companies and cooperatives, and in 1991 their status was finally consolidated by the "Regulations on Urban Collective Enterprises". But with the release of the law “On Companies”, almost the entire mass of collective and cooperative enterprises joined a new type of ownership, taking the form of joint-stock companies. What for?
This is an opportunity to enter the international market. Bourgeois law does not know the concept of a “collective company.” And if such a company uses a signboard with the word “private”, while retaining all the signs of a collective company in the form of distribution of labor and elective leadership, then it will easily enter the international market. But it was not only those collective enterprises that needed to enter the international market that re-registered as private companies. By that time, many companies had difficulties with accurately determining all the shares, which had developed over the years, so it was easier to adopt a new legal framework to get rid of such a “tail”. Only rare exceptions have not been re-registered. For example, the enterprises of Nanjie commune, one of the richest villages in the world, remained in cooperative ownership. The situation is similar with the Yonggang Group cooperative in Yonglian village, in which 25% of shares are distributed directly to residents.
What do we have as a result? There is so little collective and cooperative ownership in China only because in the 90s the vast majority of companies with this type of ownership adopted a new legal framework, becoming known as “private” companies, although it would be more correct to call them “individual”, because such companies have nothing in common with private property in capitalist countries. They retained the distribution of labor and the elective leadership, simply adopting a more appropriate look in modern conditions. Therefore, for example, in Huawei, which is registered as a private enterprise, 99% of the shares belong to its employees. When an employee is dismissed, his share is returned back to the company. It is simply impossible not to notice the process of forming collective companies into private joint-stock companies while preserving all the signs of an artel. If we do not ignore this fact, it turns out that Chinese artels have not only not died out, but have continued to develop successfully, demonstrating significantly higher efficiency indicators compared to capitalist enterprises.
>>2586533Need to add that these companies in China re literally translated to "people's companies", while "private/individual" label is reserved for Westoid companies
>>2585952its honestly uncanny how much I look like this and say this.
8 more posts and thread is full. Then someone will bake new bread and then immediately we will get 20 "anti-deng" low effort posts with Facebook-tier memes and the usual retard will bring up trade with Israel and China will be called imperialists.
Then, after like 50 posts, the adults in the room can finally start discussing on topic.
You know this is inevitable because Westoids are mind- and buckbroken by China.
Prepare yourself for this lame and boring but inevitable ride which never ends.
>>2586576I don't think it's lame. It's funny.
>>2586578It's forced and inorganic. It's as 'funny' as all the other "hey there fellow kids" type of astrosurfing coming from multinational companies or secret services.
>>2586579Macron is intelligent enough to understand what Xi is trying to tell him. He just doesn't care. Macron is the worst kind of capitalist. He's a class conscious capitalist. He's studied Marx.
>>2586581If you are saying that Macron understands that Xi is saying to him "you are going against multipolarity which like a natural force can not be just overcome by will alone" but he just doesn't care because there's profit to be had even in fruitless endeavors like supplying Ukraine for example, then we agree.
>>2586584Well of course. Macron like all neoliberals is totally dependent on the market. The market is a logic of its own.
>>2586596This is precisely what I expected these past few months.
In the UK for example, there is for the first time in decades a deficit of people coming into the UK. Nobody wants to send their foreign students to British universities (except for the top universities obviously). The same is certainly happening across Western Europe. Service economies begging for income like its a hard drug or something.
Thread is now full. A new thread will be baketh and then rises the era of the anti-dengist shitposter followed by a period of civility and calm.
This is my astrological prediction
>>2586624astrology is bourgeois
>>2586626It's more of a clergy thing tbh
>>2586626I'm only practicing proletarian astrology. I don't dabble in the dark arts.
What would be the Chinese pasta dish to replace Macaroni's name? Ramenoni?
China is an example of solar punk working
>>2586646One of the problems that haunts Green parties in the west is that porkies who sell solar panels are just as cuntish as porkies who sell oil.
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