/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2571614
Therefore you mourning whatever "siphoning" you think is happening (it isn't) is pointless

>>2571615
Are you "America First" or a communist? Be honest.

>>2571621
I'm just as communist as you are

>>2571612
lay off the babble and say what you really mean

>>2571622
Are you
>implying
we're both communist
or are you
>implying
neither of us are communist

>>2571628
lifelong neocon interventionist says what

>>2571581
>This is literally what the MAGAcom and groyper psy ops are all about, to channel growing anti-imperialist sentiments into nationalist movements for the restoration of American control over American imperialism. They deliberately misdiagnose the problem as "Things got bad once Israel started puppeteering us" instead of "Imperialism must be stopped, regardless of which nationality is in control of imperialism."

I’ve got no love for the “MAGA com” types but I think their influence is vastly overstated, being a mostly online movement with no real ties to the class struggle. I’ve got no problem if you want to oppose them, my contention is mostly with the tendency on this board to accuse just about anyone of imperialism and chauvinism with slim evidence. If a person says our state puts Israel before the people then I’m inclined to agree, if they’re talking to people who are sympathetic to nationalist rhetoric and say as an aside that we’re funding Israel genocidal campaign while people in this country sleep on the streets then that’s useful rhetorically, it links national issues to international ones. But if they simply dismiss that we’re funding a genocide and make the issue that we’re supporting another nation then they’re not elevating peoples’ consciousness.

>Communists oppose both imperialism and Israel.
Agreed

>MAGAcoms literally tail reactionaries.
Agreed.

>DSA tail reformist collaborationists in the Democratic party.

The collaboration is debatable, I would argue that the DSA can be weighed as being more opposed to Israel than supportive.

>>2571633
>if they simply dismiss that we’re funding a genocide and make the issue that we’re supporting another nation
That isn't the groyper argument.

>>2571634
the groyper defender has logged back on
>>2571622
dodged another question award

>>2571636
Do you want to report me to the mods or something? Go ahead. It takes 1 minute for me to change IP.

>>2571637
it doesn't have to be the same exact reactionary socialists engels was talking about, the parallel today is people who seek to reverse the developments which led to the current era and restore and an earlier version of America. The essence of all reaction is to restore an idealized version of the past in the name of an class who have lost their former status, rather than create a new society in the name of a class which never had status to begin with.

>>2571639
no I want you to answer my question. If I wanted to report you to mods I would have already done that.

In no universe is the PatSoc/Magacom movement "reactionary socialists", reactionary socialists haven't existed since the early 20th century lmao.
What "aristocracy" and Little England are PatSocs trying to recreate?
Reactionary ""Socialists"" were simply anti-capitalists who hated Capitalism because they basically wanted Aristocratic/church power instead and saw Capitalism (and in general industrialization) as a corrupting force. Groups like Maupins and the ACP are nothing like them at all.
Either way the ACP are 100% not a "psyop" because of the sheer hostility they face from the wider shitlib/cartel left. Same sort of attacks against the ACP mimic a lot of the attacks against the RSCC who were actually a target of the FBI, NYPD etc and this is because specifically they were NOT part of the controlled cartel left (DSA, CPUSA, RCP etc).
I've never bought this who "psyop" narrative about much of the modern Marxist left anyway. DSA, CPUSA, RCP etc are all just an ingroup clique who's heads are all friends behind the scenes and they basically just treat left activism as their own hobby scene that they desperately want to gatekeep. Every so often the elite will try to enlist them to support the Democrats, as you saw especially in like 2012 with Democrat think tanks and such throwing money at Marxist groups to try go out and attack Romney but the establishment largely see the Marxist left as loser LARPers and not a threat at all.
The only movements I know who are 100% riddled with glowies (and I know this as actual fact from knowing the right people) are Anarchist groups and Environmental groups.

>>2571643
see >>2571640

>>2571643
>Reactionary ""Socialists"" were simply anti-capitalists who hated Capitalism because they basically wanted Aristocratic/church power instead and saw Capitalism (and in general industrialization) as a corrupting force
yeah and America First is led by a tradcath catboy who says Christ is King and wants America in the hands of a Christian theocracy instead of a zionist bourgeoisie. do you not see the parallels there?

>>2571643
A chunk of people in this thread hates ACP due to personal animosity towards Haz going back years when he used to lurk here

>>2571500
>Yeah why is there slogan "Christ is King" and not "trans right are human rights"
>That is so fucked up man….

YWNBAC

>>2571652
it's not personal animosity, he's a reactionary whose positions include:
>conservatives are the real revolutionaries
>leftists are neo nazis and degenerates
>women should be divided, not united
>having sex should make you feel sick
>ethical landlords are allowed into the ACP
>being gay makes you imperailist
>being a lesbian makes you imperialist
>being bisexual makes you imperialist
>being trans makes you imperialist
>"MAGA" communism
>Marx was a monotheist
>Dialectical materialism is Islamic
>Christians, Muslims, and Jews should team up with Communists against degenerate Atheists

He is not a Marxist-Leninist, but a religious and reactionary cult leader whose uses the Aesthetics of Communism as a window dressing for an ideology that is fundamentally Nationalist and Heidegerrian by his own admission.

>>2571640
To expand on what this anon said, Not only are they always going to bat for the national and petty bourgeois that have been feeling the squeeze since around the middle of last century, they, like the moronic strain of third worldism they claim to oppose, love trotting out a version of the "the US has no class of proletariat" meme except with the twist of claiming that only a vague "culturally conservative" section of tradespeople and "self employed contractors" constitute the proletariat.

>>2571652
Yeah and they're not woke which much of Leftypol (including the mods) absolutely adhere too over actual Socialism and/or Communism.
I think Infrared are extremely unprofessional streamers with the brains of teenagers. But I don't think of them as a psyop.
Like I said before, I don't think Marxists are super psyoped much at all, it's more that Western leftism is just mostly lifestylism/counter-culture movement that is controlled by a cartel of "acceptable" predictable LARP parties who do activism as their hobby, and they move very quickly to terf out opposition. They don't want competition at certain demos and whatever. This is why I think groups like the ACP really face hostility they don't deserve at all (because they haven't fucking done anything) meanwhile absolutely awful orgs with long histories of actually betraying the left and working with the ruling classes like the CPUSA or DSA or just any fucking dogshit anarkiddie group that clearly glow brighter than the sun gets little to no real criticisim at all from the social media/wider left.
I know for fact anarkiddies glow, but I think this is because they engage in property damage which makes them much more of a target, same with the Environmental movement which basically all Environmental direct action is considered literally "Eco-terrorism" in law these days. So Anarchists and Environments basically come under survellience as terrorist groups, rather than the cointelpro of the past.
Which I think there is cointelpro (again the RSCC were absolutely the target of FBI/NYPD) I think most of the failing of the left fall on the fact the left is mostly just a shitlib/religious counter-culture movement/Democrat pressure group rather than a serious political project. The idea that shit like the ACP or even CPUSA, DSA etc are "glowies" reeks of leftist narcissism at this point.

>>2571654
Really begs the question, why do so many reactionary cult leaders choose to co-opt Communist aesthetics and language, despite the clear mismatch between their cults' openly and radically idealist, religious, socially regressive, economically liberal views?
Furthermore, why do so many gulluible suckers fall for such "communist" cults like Haz's ACP, the Avakian Revcoms, and the British CPGB-ML? I simply do not get it.

>>2571660
>Yeah and they're not woke which much of Leftypol (including the mods) absolutely adhere too over actual Socialism and/or Communism.
it's more than that they're "not woke" and I explained above what their explicitly reactionary positions were but you selectively ignored that post.

>>2571559
Everything you say is a lie. You dont care about american workers. You are libertarian. You've already spoken for the kulaks. Workers dont care if american kulaks get scammed. The struggle for american bourgeois to purchase proprietary tools and parts is innately a fascist struggle

>>2571654
I think you have to take this stuff with a massive grain of salt. Haz is first and foremost a edgy streamer doing streaming content to appeal to gymbros.
Also even if they are the ACP positions. Who cares? The Western left is a dead counter culture. As long as the ACP have decent economic positions, which they do, I could not give a shit about what they say about gay people or islamic bullshit

>>2571668
>You dont care about american workers. You are libertarian.
Nah I'm just a /g/ oldfag that doesn't like planned obsolescence and doesn't cope with long-term plans to stop short-term solutions for easily solvable problems.

>>2571666
At the end of the day I do sort of think people falling into this shit can in part be blamed by other organizations failing and/or being destroyed

>>2571666
Western Socialism is entirely a counter-culture. That is the reality. There is no serious Western Socialist/Communist movement. The only politics the vast majority of Western leftists actually care about is Identity Politics because shock horror, the western left is a counter culture where identity ingroup markers are the point.
There is nothing about the ACP that is any more a "cult" than any other bullshit Socialist/Communist org or movement.
I mean for crying out loud, even here, half the shit you're criticising the ACP for has nothing to do with Socialism at all and are just bog standard "progressive" liberal moralist nonsense and many "progressive" positions are seriously reactionary if you actually apply any critical thinking to them (pretty much everything to do with Idpol, I mean for fuck sake, the left spent the past 5 years arguing that cross-cultural exchange is fucking racism)

>>2571669
>I think you have to take this stuff with a massive grain of salt. Haz is first and foremost a edgy streamer doing streaming content to appeal to gymbros.
he's also the leader of an ostensibly serious "communist" party which you are actively defending, and go on to defend in the very next sentence:
>Also even if they are the ACP positions. Who cares?
Because communism isn't about "ethical landlords" and he answered the question about whether ACP members could be "landlords" in his capacity as chairman of that party… and also why are reactionary gymbros and small business owners and landlords his audience anyway if he's a "communist party" leader? Why is his comrade Jackson Hinkle going on podcasts and saying women should listen to their husbands and only be allowed to vote the way their husbands tell them?
>The Western left is a dead counter culture.
That's a problem to fix, not a problem to exacerbate by going over to reactionaries posing as communists.
> As long as the ACP have decent economic positions, which they do,
"it's ok to be a landlord in the ACP" is not a "decent economic position," it's thoroughly reactionary and you know it.
> I could not give a shit about what they say about gay people or islamic bullshit
Marxism is materialist, it is not religious. Lenin fought religion. And no, gay people are not automatically imperialist just for being gay, which is his position… you are saying you essentially don't care if he uses reactionary identity politics to scapegoat people as long as he has "decent" economic "positions" such as "landlords can be in the ACP."

You are a reactionary defending reactionaries.

>>2571680
>Western Socialism is entirely a counter-culture. That is the reality. There is no serious Western Socialist/Communist movement. The only politics the vast majority of Western leftists actually care about is Identity Politics
you are doing identity politics yourself when you say you don't care if the ACP scapegoats people on the basis of their identity as long as they have "decent economic positions" (which they don't, they say small business owners and landlords can be "communist" party members).

You are a reactionary taking a reactionary situation and saying it is destined to get more reactionary because "the left is dead." You are declaring the left dead because you WANT the left to be dead. you want to kill what remains of the left and elevate the right so you are pushing that narrative. it is evident in who you defend/endorse and who you attack/dismiss.

>>2571669
>Haz is first and foremost a edgy streamer doing streaming content to appeal to gymbros.
here is how he acts in a "serious" meeting with his fellow "communist" party members

>>2571666
>Furthermore, why do so many gulluible suckers fall for such "communist" cults like Haz's ACP, the Avakian Revcoms, and the British CPGB-ML? I simply do not get it.
Cult like social tactics are difficult to scale and replicate beyond a handful of devoted members because the leader, group and it's personal invasiveness often has limited appeal to average people. Normal political parties also don't want to bother dealing with controlling member every thought and action because it's cost lot of energy when they are trying to accomplish something beyond the cult itself. Problem is leftist parties and activities are actively sabotaged in the west so the only ones who survive are the smaller cults.

>>2571686
alex jones energy
i can see the appeal of these types for low autism score reactionaries. we need one on the left but not a racist like haz.

>>2571687
yep, and the cults themselves are used by the feds to break up the real parties. which is why larouchites would go to the meetings of other parties and start fist fights back in the day, to get the police called on the meetings and break them up.

>>2571680
>I mean for crying out loud, even here, half the shit you're criticising the ACP for has nothing to do with Socialism at all and are just bog standard "progressive" liberal moralist nonsense
I'm criticizing them for doing idpol. they are doing reactionary idpol. they scapegoat gay peple and say they are automatically imperialist for being gay. that's not true. that's just idpol.
ok buddy

>>2571692
>they scapegoat gay peple and say they are automatically imperialist for being gay. that's not true. that's just idpol.
isnt that also the ccp and post-stalin ussr position? correct me if i'm wrong

>>2571683
>he's also the leader of an ostensibly serious "communist" party
There is no serious communist movement in the west lmao.
The western left is entirely a dead counter-culture. The chance of the ACP having any power, is <0.0000001% and even then, if they get power, they still are literally 1000x better than the current state of things.
>Because communism isn't about "ethical landlords" and he answered the question about whether ACP members could be "landlords" in his capacity as chairman of that party
Because Communist parties have always been built on the back of class traitor bourgiousie. Pretty much the entire CPSU and CPC were made up by petite bougies, former aristocrats, landlord families etc. Engels himself was a factory owner, Marx himself said that Communists should be finance bros.
>Why is his comrade Jackson Hinkle going on podcasts and saying women should listen to their husbands and only be allowed to vote the way their husbands tell them?
Could not give a shit about social issues. Not Communism.
>That's a problem to fix, not a problem to exacerbate by going over to reactionaries posing as communists.
Their economic program is 1000x better than any major western party today, which is the only thing that matters.
>"it's ok to be a landlord in the ACP" is not a "decent economic position," it's thoroughly reactionary and you know it.
So was Engels not a real Socialist?
>Marxism is materialist, it is not religious.
Like anybody here actually engages in materialism and not fucking christianity rebranded under a red flag.
I mean you're complaining about "boo they hate trans people" literal anti-materialist pomo gnostic wackadoodle then crying about not following materialism.
>And no, gay people are not automatically imperialist just for being gay, which is his position
I doubt this is what he actually believes, most likely Haz believes that the LGBT movement works largely as an arm to push Western Imperialism. Which it literally does. They literally drop rainbow bombs on Gaza and Yemen and "muh lgbt" crap is used all the time to attack global south countries with massive liberal support.
>You are a reactionary defending reactionaries.
I don't give a single fucking shit about "reactionary" labels since the Western left is not a real political movement. Wow, a bunch of red scene kids called me a reactionary, why should I care?
>you are doing identity politics yourself when you say you don't care if the ACP scapegoats people on the basis of their identity as long as they have "decent economic positions"
The old nu-leftypol "actually if you don't care about woke bullshit you are the true idpol"
kek don't care.
>You are a reactionary taking a reactionary situation and saying it is destined to get more reactionary because "the left is dead."
If the ACP got into power, how would things become more reactionary? At worst the West end up a Communist state in the vein of China.
>You are declaring the left dead because you WANT the left to be dead.
No, because it's actually fucking dead dude. Like what the fuck, look around. The entire left is made up of fucking losers who care 1000x more about a fake "trans genocide" than any sort of economic demand and refuse to play politics in any coherent, pragmatic fashion instead putting idpol purity testing above and ahead of anything.
>>2571686
The ACP are not a serious political party. Like I said, the entire Western left is a fucking counter-culture joke. The ACP are just Leftist themed gym bros, meanwhile other Leftist orgs are just leftist themed kink groups, reading groups and whatever the fuck. Anything but actual serious politics.
>I'm criticizing them for doing idpol. they are doing reactionary idpol. they scapegoat gay peple and say they are automatically imperialist for being gay. that's not true. that's just idpol.
Who cares, Idpol should not be on any Communists radar about anything. Trans, gay people can get thrown into asylums for all I fucking care if I get a Socialist economic system.

Is it worth it for burger proles to reproduce anymore? Between the massive expense and financial/political/ecological collapse?

>>2571660
Yes, I criticize the CPUSA and DSSA plenty, and I am ruthlessly persecuted for it.

>>2571587
After having done my own investigation into the issue, Groypers see America as being controlled by Israel, so any victory for america is really a victory for Israel, they cite Israel getting bigger over time and America getting browner over time as proof of this.

The surprising part is they believe in a kind of Defeatism, they think America needs to take a tactical loss followed by a period of civil unrest in order to transition away from "jewish control" to "something else".

>>2571643
>they basically just treat left activism as their own hobby scene that they desperately want to gatekeep
That may be true, but the ACP is just as extreme with making "communism" out to be some kind of personal lifestyle/culture identity, but they're just doing it from a different direction.

>>2571660
>I think Infrared are extremely unprofessional streamers with the brains of teenagers. But I don't think of them as a psyop.
Well then we might disagree about them in some ways, but can also reach some common ground about them in other aspects.

>>2571660
>Like I said before, I don't think Marxists are super psyoped much at all, it's more that Western leftism is just mostly lifestylism/counter-culture movement that is controlled by a cartel of "acceptable" predictable LARP parties who do activism as their hobby, and they move very quickly to terf out opposition. They don't want competition at certain demos and whatever.
I think there's some truth in this, but it also varies a lot locally. In my own area, this wasn't so much of a problem, and there was only one group (some culty Trots) who everyone else agreed to freeze out of any coalitions (and there were reasons for this). But generally everyone got along, but the whole scene was very small and everyone more or less knew each other, because there just wasn't that many people. Like literally a "party" locally would have members in the single digits, maybe two digits at best, which would be really good with the DSA being the biggest of all.

>I know for fact anarkiddies glow, but I think this is because they engage in property damage which makes them much more of a target, same with the Environmental movement which basically all Environmental direct action is considered literally "Eco-terrorism" in law these days. So Anarchists and Environments basically come under survellience as terrorist groups, rather than the cointelpro of the past.
I think that's pretty common, and it appeared to be the case when I've seen them in person. They weren't "feds" but they were being tailed by feds wherever they went.

>The idea that shit like the ACP or even CPUSA, DSA etc are "glowies" reeks of leftist narcissism at this point.
Well it's a way of trying to discredit other groups. The ACP seems to be pretty transparently trying to find sponsors to get money, and they have looked to Russia for that. But I feel it's less "psyoppy" than grifter behavior. Helali for example strikes me as a con artist more than anything else.

>>2571680
>Western Socialism is entirely a counter-culture. That is the reality. There is no serious Western Socialist/Communist movement.
I think the basic problem is that there's just no social-revolutionary movement to begin with. People think parties make revolutions, but it's actually people in a nation that make a revolution, and that's what provides revolutionary parties with a mass base. It wasn't the "Communist Party of China" that was the primary historical agent that made the revolution happen, y'know? It was the Chinese people making a revolution during a state of crisis in the society. The party then emerges and can shape or guide it at critical moments, but a lot of people get the order or causal sequence flipped around.

Actually the ACP people think America is ripe for a revolution. They've openly talked about this and apparently it's MAGA that has convinced them that this the case, so they should adapt communist ideology to MAGA people and mixing in right-wing things into their ideology. That's also why they moved into this party formation. A lot of this is also based on their podcast audience. They think that's the way you appeal to people to organize them. But I find this highly dubious because you're basically a consumer of a cultural commodity or aesthetic style, and it fits perfectly with capitalist politics because one just sets oneself up with an audience and then tries to turn that into a political movement.

>>2571697
>Who cares, Idpol should not be on any Communists radar about anything. Trans, gay people can get thrown into asylums for all I fucking care if I get a Socialist economic system.
I think you're expressing frustration and it's understandable. But to get a "real movement" going (I mean socialist or communist), you need people who have different styles, and different tastes who are simply not going to agree with either the idpol-type stuff *or* ACP at that aesthetic level. The left is going to need to cut across the existing cultural divides that the capitalist parties play up. As a subsection of that statement, people also don't give a rat's ass about the big differences between these miniscule leftist parties or the "failure of Bernie Sanders" or whatever. Like you have to blame capitalism, yes, but people have to pay rent and their wages stink.

Marx BTW criticized other radicals in his time because Marx believed in drawing attention to the *undeveloped* state of the German proletariat while others flattered "the national feeling and the status-prejudice of the German artisans in the crudest possible way — which, admittedly, is more popular."

You also look at Morena in Mexico, they went the complete opposite direction of everything I've just described. They built a movement first BEFORE moving into a party. The party's name is an abbreviation for "National Regeneration Movement." They were taking over the country and then formed a party because they reckoned they could win. I don't just mean a city council somewhere, but the presidency. Some of the older people in it were communists who lived in a situation in the 1970s where they risked being grabbed, shoved into a helicopter and given a "free helicopter ride" over the ocean (for real).

>>2571700
Or… they follow whatever Fuentes says and he's an opportunist/asset and the contradictions account for his and his handler's interests in shaping the acceptable limits of antisemitism.

>>2571693
I seriously doubt your claim is correct, and you have to prove your claim. I do not have to prove it wrong. That's how proof works. If I make a claim like "I have 10 legs" I have to prove that claim, nobody else has to disprove it. But what's the use of appealing to the "characteristics" of another country's socialism? America has gone through struggles to recognize the rights of gay people and those struggles should not be reversed and gay workers should not be ostracized from communism. You say you are against "idpol" but being against idpol means being both against the liberal forms of idpol, which is interclass, and the reactionary forms of idpol, which seek to scapegoat groups and excommunicate them on the basis of their identity, which is exactly what Haz does with gay people when he claims they are imperialist by default.
>>2571697
>There is no serious communist movement in the west lmao.
OK then that's a problem we have to fix. but earlier you said the ACP has "decent" economic positions, but they don't. They accept landlords into their "communist" party. You have yet to say what is "decent" about that. Meanwhile you said you don't care if he scapegoats gay people, but there's a difference between rejecting liberal idpol, and being indifferent to the reactionary act of scapegoating people on the basis of their identity alone. He's not even going exclusively after bourgeois gay people, he's just claiming that all gay people are bourgeois. that is just as heinous as claiming all people of a certain race or religion are bourgeois. It objectively is idpol, and if you do not reject it, then that means you accept certain forms of idpol, namely the reactionary, discriminatory and scapegoating forms of it. Marxism is also materialist, and not religious, so you "not giving a shit" that a self described "commuist" party is dragging the communism through the mud and confusing people about what communism is seems fishy to me. You say you don't care because "there is no REAL communism in the west" but you simultaneously defend ACP revisionism and landlordism as "decent." That is suspicious!
>Because Communist parties have always been built on the back of class traitor bourgiousie. Pretty much the entire CPSU and CPC were made up by petite bougies, former aristocrats, landlord families etc. Engels himself was a factory owner, Marx himself said that Communists should be finance bros.
There's a difference between making exceptions for class traitors and actively encouraging landlords to join, but you already said they weren't communist so why are you using this argument to defend them? Suspicious!
>Could not give a shit about social issues. Not Communism.
Mao said "women hold up half the sky."
Hinkle says "women should obey their husbands"
you shrug and say "this is a social issuee. Teehee!" your indifference to their reactionary bullshit is telling. Communists have always sought equality between men and women since the time of Marx and Engels.
>Their economic program is 1000x better than any major western party today, which is the only thing that matters.
They are not communist but you support them because their economic program of letting landlors into their party is "1000x better" than other parties? suspicious!
>So was Engels not a real Socialist?
Not what I said, you are deflecting by comparing Engels to a party you have already said is not even communist. Suspicious!
>Like anybody here actually engages in materialism and not fucking christianity rebranded under a red flag.
You have to back that accusation up rather than simply making it in defense of a reactionary cult.
>I mean you're complaining about "boo they hate trans people" literal anti-materialist pomo gnostic wackadoodle then crying about not following materialism.
They actively scapegoat people and say they are automatically bourgeois based on their identity alone. How is that not reactionary and a deliberate attempt to miseducate people about what class fundamentally is. They are literlally turning class consciousness into identity politics by saying people are bourgeois on the basis of their sexuality rather than their relation to the means of production. And you support this scapegoating by dismissing it as unimportant or irrelevant or claiming that it's "liberal idpol" to care at all about reactionary scapegoating and miseducating people on what class fundamentally is. They let in landlords and they keep out gay workers. That's reactionary.
>I doubt this is what he actually believes, most likely Haz believes that the LGBT movement works largely as an arm to push Western Imperialism. Which it literally does. They literally drop rainbow bombs on Gaza and Yemen and "muh lgbt" crap is used all the time to attack global south countries with massive liberal support.
the neoconservative christian bush administration dropped bombs on iraq and afghanistan and liberal bourgeoisie who happened to be gay also did it. now you pretend ONLY they liberal gay bourgeoisie do this, and somehow this justifies scapegoating gay workers and saying "they are imperialist for being gay"

>>2571703 (me)
And currently that means dropping the gas-the-jews attitude and the other retarded, terminally online stuff what built his audience, in order to appeal better to normies and leech from left antizionism

>>2571703
>they follow whatever Fuentes says
that is what nick says

>>2571266
<Sitting Bull
>You have to go back
Bahaha. I thought DHS was about keeping their version of America eurocentric and keeping their 'blood pure'? This looks shopped. Srsly tho, there are better ways going forward but there's no going back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUkgfSCjfN0

>>2571704
>America has gone through struggles to recognize the rights of gay people and those struggles should not be reversed and gay workers should not be ostracized from communism.
But those struggles occurred under Capitalism and were fought under a Capitalist regime for Capitalist rights given to the LGBT community by the Capitalist power structure of the Capitalist regime.
That is to say, we don't have to limit ourselves and our conception of society based on rules Capitalists set for us. We can in fact have a policy of government not getting involved in sexuality and focusing on the rights of gay people as workers and citizens, and protect them from discrimination under the laws of a socialist society.
We can in fact take an approach to government that isn't based on apologizing for the crimes of Capitalism, Religion, Zionism, etc but instead offering people a better alternative.

Anyway as to your denial of China's oppression of LGBT people it's difficult to find sources that aren't well, Capitalists trying to defame China, but the CCP isn't exactly shy about seeing LGBT ideology as an invasive Western idea trying to disrupt the harmony of their society. Interestingly though public opinion towards gay people in China is growing and they might have an actual alternative to Western-centric "Pride" in the coming years as the CCP does not on the surface oppose homosexuality but the American/European propaganda being pushed through western LGBT culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_China#Public_opinion_and_demographics

>>2571702
> Some of the older people in it were communists who lived in a situation in the 1970s where they risked being grabbed, shoved into a helicopter and given a "free helicopter ride" over the ocean (for real).
did that happen in mexico?

>>2571714
Yep and there were as many as 1,500 victims.

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-past-crimes-dirty-war-death-flights-de46051fcbd23f795051b28a8cf5c4a0

>>2571711
>But those struggles occurred under Capitalism and were fought under a Capitalist regime for Capitalist rights given to the LGBT community by the Capitalist power structure of the Capitalist regime.
That's a shaky argument. It's like a "genetic fallacy" where something is seen as invalid simply because of where it originated. Also, every socialist movement in history has also had organize inside capitalist societies. Capitalists have also granted demands that were often made by socialists like collective bargaining rights. Not saying gay rights are incompatible with capitalism or is inherently "revolutionary," and you're not saying gays should be discriminated against.

But there are people who we run into on the internet (anyways) who are like "well that happened under capitalism so therefore it's capitalism and therefore it's not socialist." But then they'll make an excuse for billionaires existing in China. Reminds me a bit of Salafists who are like "well that's Western so it's haram."