🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
<Do you support regime change in Venezuela? Edition🏈 💵Thread for hellish discussion of the Dying Burger Reich and the pedophile Hitlerite-Zionist clique of the American bourgeoisie and its iron grip upon the greatest bigliest country McGod™ ever gave McMan™ on the face of the McEarth™🌭 🍔
>Things are going to continue to happen in the stupidest ways possible that no one really takes seriously, where every single person compulsively reacts with either cynical grifting or useless panic and appealing to a political system of liberal democracy that is entirely dead and irrelevant. things will continue to get gradually worse, more people will lose their jobs and homes, the most destitute and marginalized will be oppressed by state-backed domestic terrorism, but the decay will simply continue and everyone who isn't actively being imprisoned and forced into slavery or outright exterminated will simply ignore it and maintain a cognitive dissonance of believing a civil war is happening while living their lives in a mostly normal fashion. The death of the United States will be slow, painful, and insufferably annoying and stupid. <Death to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the father of fascism, the enabler of ethnostates, the treatlerite tyrant, the protector of pedophiles, the exporter of ecocide, the captain of capitalism, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the invader of islands, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™ 🛠️ Strike Tracker ⚒️https://striketracker.ilr.cornell.edu/🇺🇸 Deeds of the Burger Reich 🇺🇸https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.mdhttps://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list📺 Glowie News 📺(sponsored by the Burger Eagle Freedom Institute (formerly USAID))
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>>2571257Remember to filter mass tor baiters, feds, and trollsNot reporting is bourgeoisViolators will be launched from trebuchet 541 posts and 65 image replies omitted.>>25745031. you responded to the wrong post. you meant to respond to
>>25743962. you didn't read the rest of what I said. I'm not talking about authority, but about standard of living. even if a bronze age king has a harem or can order people tortured/executed. they lived with an unvaried diet, no way to diagnose their cancer, a life expectancy of a bout 40-50 years (vs. our ~75 years), mostly due to high infant mortality admittedly, but still, and also very pseudoscientific medicine that could get you killed easily, and very slow trade and communication tech, etc. a king would have had more abundant food than the peasants, but also a limited variety, due to the fact that trade was slow and perishable food spoiled if traded long distance, and preservation methods were rudimentary… information, entertainment were also limited, as was safety and stability.
>>2574508that's not the point I was trying to make (the other anon dropped an incomplete quote of mine while responding to you). The point I was trying to make is:
<on the one hand, Lenin is correct about labor aristocracy, on the other hand, Marx is correct about how wanting to level everyone down to a preconceived minimum standard of living is "crude communism" >>2574524holy shit that's wild
>>2574509no, the definition since Engels first described it fits perfectly the today's situation, the bourgeoisified. the privileged upper stratum of the working class, with a material position and an outlook (their aspirational goal) makes it more conservative in taking steeper actions, and less revolutionary than the mass of the proletariat.
Lenin further described their collaborationist, reformist, social-chauvinism nature.
Stalin describes them as the labor lieutenants of the capitalist class.
Trotsky describes them as opportunists.
Mao describes them as the privileged state within labor, sectoral elites and the capitalist intelligentsia.
it's not antiquated. that's silly.
ask the people working in raytheon if they would go onto a strike forcing the company to abandon the genocide in Palestine. that's literally
it. that's their class collaboration.
>>2574524>sister-in-law is the termThey never married. She is just her bro's baby mama.
>>2574517"was" lmao. ask the workers of general dynamics to strike about the genocide in Palestine. Or that they offer you the construction and installation plans of the industry that would help you sabotage every goddamn machine they have. they will have you arrested right after the first hello.
>just vague accusations of bribes and giftsdamn, I guess you haven't heard about the juicy retirement packages they get there, huh.
>>2574532yeah but they're still not
significant. They don't sway the vote or the decisions of the elite either way. So when I say it's antiquated, I mean it doesn't really help in any broader analysis nor decision of praxis outside of "don't expect these specific assholes to protest with you.
What you gave is an actually accurate description of the term, yes, but like CPUSA anon said, it's been watered down to mean "any worker in x country"
>>2574534So the entire population is now being held to the standards of the engineers in the MIC?
>>2574534You’re literally proving my point. Labor aristocracy is about a thin minority of highly paid workers and you reference… a thin minority of highly paid workers.
>>2574537You are wrong. In only the most imperialist nation do the labor aristocrat snakes band together in celebration of genocide and consume excess plunder.
>>2574540god damn uhhh I'm joining the protest immediately
>>2574536hold on. let me pretend to be that one guy (you know which one):
Wrong. You deny proletarian MIC engineer in global south. Proletarian MIC engineer makes Iranian shahed drone. Bourgeois MIC engineer makes hellfire R9X for Raytheon. >>2574541>only in the most imperialist nationbuddy there are multiple MICs across the world, not just in america. And they're also a sliver of the working class and therefor insignificant when it comes to praxis as a whole
>>2574540Leave it to Leavitt to deport this smdh 😤
>>2574544There is massive problem with your thought. THE PROLETARIAN ENGINEER CONSTRUCTS SAHED FOR SELF DEFENSE, but the imperialist engineer only serves imperialism.
>>2574536I am saying the term isn't "was", it's
it because exists today.
and to your question, read my other replies:
>>2574535>yeah but they're still not significantwhy did you need to change the subject? also, I don't think it's
irrelevant if the main authors of communism brought their analysis into their writings. just because it doesn't suit your narrative, doesn't make it
irrelevant or
insignificant.
>I mean it doesn't really help in any broader analysis nor decision of praxisdoes it? how many broad strikes across the US, besides the MIC, because
yakno insignificant, did you see in the US supporting a stop for the genocide of Palestine? name one.
>>2574537I am not proving your point, retard. I am debunking your claim about their irrelevancy. to use "was" it's stupid.
Labor Aristocracy is arguably what we would identify as lawyers, doctors, accountants, engineers. You know the type. They usually have degrees, family lines, there's a hodgepodge of employed ones and self-employed petty bourgeois.
The difference in imperialist nation is the presence of a stratum that exists to service imperialism directly (le raytheon workers) who also get direct benefits. And, stunningly, these people are often intense reactionaries.
>>2574547I agree. I just think mr. "wrong. you deny blah blah blah line" guy writes funny
>>2574551imagine if every post was just "no u" instead of args. that would be very high quality stuff
>>2574545Wrong. There is only one millitary industrial complex. It is the amerikkkan. Third world MIC like the chinese millitary complex cannot be equivocated to the snakes. To equivocate them is to conduct revisionism in service of imperialism.
>>2574554Disagreeing with me is literally imperialism so
>>2574554the majority of armed conflicts throughout the world right now don't have america involved whatsoever. American imperialism is VASTLY financialized, like with the IMF and trade war bullshit. Which is even further removed from any kind of labor input.
>>2574548No, you’re proving my point. The labor aristocracy
was used in reference to a thin minority of workers and now it’s extended to entire populations of a nation. You’re literally proving my point by pointing to a thin minority of workers as though that’s consistent with the average prole.
>>2574550I genuinely think that the whole Labor Aristocracy thing was Marx and Engels thinking “yeah this is pretty straightforward, anyone can understand what we’re talking about.” Because who expects some corporate lawyer to oppose capitalism? But then you get Sakai types coming around and claiming “actually the labor aristocracy is the majority of this given nation” irrationally.
>>2574559the analysis it's not framed in the past. labor aristocracy is still present, and exists as it's today, as it existed when the term first appeared. and if anything, most workers in America either believe they are labor aristocracy, where most of those who believe they are labor aristocracy love to believe they are, are labor aristocracy, or aspire to be one.
>>2574562Again, it
was used for a thin minority and then expanded to be used as a cudgel against the majority. Your argument is just proving my point because you’re claiming “Uhh ACKTUALLY there are still labor aristocrats and in fact the average worker is a labor aristocrat cause they want to make as much as they do”. Most Americans haven’t even heard the term before but you’re claiming “most love to believe they’re labor aristocrats”
people on X are fucking contorting themselves to justify mamdani: keeping the fascist zionist police commissioner, stabbing Chi Ossé in the back, and throwing palestine protesters under the bus.
lotta bread tubers justifying it by saying "well he's just the incumbent mayor of NY we can't expect him to solve the worlds problems!!!!"
but all the the examples cited are NY things. what a fucking snake. what a bunch of snakes. truly treatlerites.
>>2574534>juicy retirement packagesWhat??? Maybe like 30 years ago that could have been a relevant argument, but the working class has progressively lost more and more retirement benefits to fund the retirement of baby boomers and endless wars, to the point where even those that CAN retire frequently run out of money within a few years and have to take another job or two just to make ends meet in their twilight years. And that's not getting into the increasing push from conservatives to abolish retirement altogether (except for elite podcasters of course). The "benefits" we get in the first world are an ephemeral pittance
>>2574566>Chi OsséHe condemned October 7th my guy. The DSA held a vote to not endorse his bid either. He's not on the team
>>2574569Unironically my parents are pretty confident they can’t retire despite being boomers themselves.
>>2574571>Unironically my parents are pretty confident they can’t retire despite being boomers themselves.The probably could retire if they flip their house and move somewhere cheaper than LA.
>>2574562> class position is what you believe yourself to beZamn
>>2574534>juicy retirement packagesmostly reserved for cops as they work for the city
>>2574566he's being a coward for sure but I personally critically support him against every other choice we had at the moment. No one was expecting a flawless communist politician out of him, and besides: he's just a mayor. He's still a sign of left-wing progress and for all the shortcomings that are destined to show, I'm certain it's a step in the right direction to have him as mayor.
You say he's a snake when he never promised what you want. You call him a snake because he isn't a savior. That's on you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>2574573literally "false consciousness is class consciousness"
amazing stuff right
>>2574566the funny thing is he isn't even incumbent yet. i warned people to be ready for the fell for it award but i didn't think it would happen THIS fast
>>2574578uh no lol. You're not getting that correct. It wasn't even really a flame war. It was a lot of things. Maybe don't try to bring it up again
>>2574582this is why i keep posting the marx quote about crude communism while also acknowledging the existence of labor aristocracy. that is the correct position:
>>2574396 >>2574583>uh no lol. You're not getting that correct. It wasn't even really a flame war. It was a lot of things. Maybe don't try to bring it up againActually I did. It was half flame war, and half just unloading brain farts while pretending to be smart.
>>2574576No we can’t rest on our laurels, if DSA is serious they’ll threaten to primary Zohran if he doesn’t shape up. That’s how the GOP became what it is, the tea party psychos of yesteryear are moderates compared to tpublicans and they’re getting punched from the right by gryopers.
>>2574573>things never said>the reply.>>2574575>>2574569they are juicy even if you are a new hire, much better than the average market.
>>2574593>if DSA is serious they’ll threaten to primary Zohran if he doesn’t shape up. That’s how the GOP became what it isjust one problem, m8, the reactionaries can afford to do that because they are hegemonic and showered with money by the Thiels and Kochs of the world, while the DSAcels are cucked into tailing the DNC
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