🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
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>>2571257Remember to filter mass tor baiters, feds, and trollsNot reporting is bourgeoisViolators will be launched from trebuchet >>2574566(repost)
he's being a coward for sure but I personally critically support him against every other choice we had at the moment. No one was expecting a flawless communist politician out of him, and besides: he's just a mayor. He's still a sign of left-wing progress and for all the shortcomings that are destined to show, I'm certain it's a step in the right direction to have him as mayor.
You say he's a snake when he never promised what you want. You call him a snake because he isn't a savior. That's on you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>2574573 (General Reposti, you are a bold one)
Anyone else notice that for all their squawking about how they have the materialist position, the "treatlerite" posters invariably resort to vibes based class analysis when confronted with the contradictions of their beliefs? When faced with irrefutable proof that most Americans have hollow, shitty lives regardless of how much line go up, suddenly they pivot to "yeah well they ASPIRE to be wealthy and that's what matters". Yeah unless you're like a literal fucking monk of course you're going to want to have more than you currently have, people resent being told that they have to accept their lot in life.
>>2574587leftypol's problem is that all 3 of the following quotes are correct, but most only heed one or two of them
<Obviously, out of such enormous superprofits (since they are obtained over and above the profits which capitalists squeeze out of the workers of their “own” country) it is possible to bribe the labour leaders and the upper stratum of the labour aristocracy. And that is just what the capitalists of the “advanced” countries are doing: they are bribing them in a thousand different ways, direct and indirect, overt and covert.
<This stratum of workers-turned-bourgeois, or the labour aristocracy, who are quite philistine in their mode of life, in the size of their earnings and in their entire outlook, is the principal prop of the Second International, and in our days, the principal social (not military) prop of the bourgeoisie. For they are the real agents of the bourgeoisie in the working-class movement, the labour lieutenants of the capitalist class, real vehicles of reformism and chauvinism. In the civil war between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie they inevitably, and in no small numbers, take the side of the bourgeoisie, the “Versaillese” against the “Communards.”
<Private property based on the labour of the small proprietor, free competition, democracy, all the catchwords with which the capitalists and their press deceive the workers and the peasants are things of the distant past. Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and of the financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the population of the world by a handful of “advanced” countries. And this “booty” is shared between two or three powerful world plunderers armed to the teeth (America, Great Britain, Japan), who are drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their booty. - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, PREFACE TO THE FRENCH AND GERMAN EDITIONS
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/pref02.htm
<The thoughts of every piece of private property as such are at least turned against richer private property in the form of envy and the desire to level everything down; hence these feelings in fact constitute the essence of competition. The crude communist is merely the culmination of this envy and desire to level down on the basis of a preconceived minimum. It has a definite, limited measure. How little this abolition of private property is a true appropriation is shown by the abstract negation of the entire world of culture and civilization, and the return to the unnatural simplicity of the poor, unrefined man who has no needs and who has not yet even reached the stage of private property, let along gone beyond it. (For crude communism) the community is simply a community of labor and equality of wages, which are paid out by the communal capital, the community as universal capitalist. Both sides of the relation are raised to an unimaginary universality – labor as the condition in which everyone is placed and capital as the acknowledged universality and power of the community. […] The first positive abolition of private property – crude communism – is therefore only a manifestation of the vileness of private property trying to establish itself as the positive community. […] By reducing the worker's needs to the paltriest minimum necessary to maintain his physical existence and by reducing his activity to the most abstract mechanical movement. In so doing, the political economist declares that man has no other needs, either in the sphere of activity or in that of consumption. For even this life he calls human life and human existence. By taking as his standard – his universal standard, in the sense that it applies to the mass of men – the worst possible state of privation which life (existence) can know. He turns the worker into a being with neither needs nor senses and turn the worker's activity into a pure abstraction from all activity. Hence any luxury that the worker might enjoy is reprehensible, and anything that goes beyond the most abstract need – either in the form of passive enjoyment or active expression – appears to him as a luxury.- Karl Marx, Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts, Third Manuscript, Private Property and Labor (1844)
<A house may be large or small; as long as the neighboring houses are likewise small, it satisfies all social requirement for a residence. But let there arise next to the little house a palace, and the little house shrinks to a hut. The little house now makes it clear that its inmate has no social position at all to maintain, or but a very insignificant one; and however high it may shoot up in the course of civilization, if the neighboring palace rises in equal or even in greater measure, the occupant of the relatively little house will always find himself more uncomfortable, more dissatisfied, more cramped within his four walls. An appreciable rise in wages presupposes a rapid growth of productive capital. Rapid growth of productive capital calls forth just as rapid a growth of wealth, of luxury, of social needs and social pleasures. Therefore, although the pleasures of the labourer have increased, the social gratification which they afford has fallen in comparison with the increased pleasures of the capitalist, which are inaccessible to the worker, in comparison with the stage of development of society in general. Our wants and pleasures have their origin in society; we therefore measure them in relation to society; we do not measure them in relation to the objects which serve for their gratification. Since they are of a social nature, they are of a relative nature.- Karl Marx, Wage Labour and Capital (1847), Chapter 6
The concept of labour aristocracy doesn't even make sense if you claim the entire proletariat of a country are labor aristocrats. Jesus Christ you people are retarded.
>>2574576No we can’t rest on our laurels, if DSA is serious they’ll threaten to primary Zohran if he doesn’t shape up. That’s how the GOP became what it is, the tea party psychos of yesteryear are moderates compared to tpublicans and they’re getting punched from the right by gryopers.
>>2574587if people contented themselves with calling americans "reactionary" they would find less pushback. but they resort to calling them inaccurate things like "petit bourgeois" or "labor aristocracy" because it sounds like it has more force behind it. (and it gets more (You)'s)
>>2574598>if DSA is serious they’ll threaten to primary ZohranThat's not how any of that works lol
>>2574596Unironically I’m pretty sure Sakai is responsible for the modern usage of it in that way. Theres a part in settlers where, to give himself the illusion of being “scientific” he points to specific industries or jobs and says “60% of the workers here are labor aristocrats”. He never shares his formula for determining what a labor aristocrat is, or how he even arrived at those numbers, he just throws out percentages and treats it as settled fact. Real “60% of the time, it works every time.”
>>2574598Yeah that's why I said "critically support". It's important to weigh the pros and cons though. And to understand how much is it worth to put THAT much effort into what is, literally just electoral politics. He should have pressure on him from the left at all times, of course I agree with that. But to expect him to meet every single challenge perfectly and most "leftistly" is forgetting the very nature of the position he holds.
My point was not to discourage the pressure he needs, but more to stop hemming and hawing that he capitulates as an elected mayor in fucking new york. No fucking dip, dude. But calling him a "snake" is just giving up. You gotta realize that politics is really fucking intricate, and that you need to pet the donkey in the direction of its fur, no matter how upset you are.
>>2574596proletariat = immiserated propertyless wage workers earning subsistence wage
but putting that aside, labor aristocracy can be relative or absolute
If you're talking about America, it can be said that there is a labor aristocracy within America who has it better than other workers in America.
If you're talking about the global working class, there is a global labor aristocracy in the imperial core who has it better than workers in the periphery.
A lot of what gets lost in translation is that some people are saying "I am not a labor aristocrat" in the relative/local sense, while the others are talking about in the absolute/global sense.
>the reply.>>2574575>>2574569they are juicy even if you are a new hire, much better than the average market.
holly shite, people can't grasp the categorizations I did here:
>and if anything, most workers in America either believe they are labor aristocracy, where most of those who believe they are labor aristocracy love to believe they are, are labor aristocracy, or aspire to be one.>>2574564>>2574567>>2574573you are either obfuscated by your pride to effectively differentiate what I describe workers are with what they pretend to be, and how that affects your capacity to counter capitalism in a meaningful way or you are simply a reflection of how poorly the American education system teaches you to discern, connect two sentences to form a broader idea and have a critical thinking.
>>2574607yeah ok but like what is the fucking POINT of bringing that up in the first place?? What does that actually fucking help to have that analysis? Like dude the working class across the world have so much more in common with each other than with their respective bourg, so it's literally JUST divisive to even bring it up in the first place. So fucking annoying
>>2574602Yes it is, they can start laying the ground work and fielding another candidate for the next election. Idk what the cycle for NY mayor is, but the got plenty of time and we must always be demanding our politicians be further left.
The USA is objectively fascist. It has a fascist society.
Normalize calling the USA fascist. Do your part.
>>2574611buddy, politics isn't always about putting your foot down and hardballing everyone that disagrees with you no matter what. I'm sorry that's just how it works, because that's how
people work. This is a fundamentally human endeavor and you need to have more space in your brain than "do the most leftist thing in all instances or else". And you say all this as if you're the smartest cookie without realizing that maybe decisions are being made with pretty reasonable thought processes behind him.
In fact, if you DO assume that, then you're much more likely to get a word in and make people like zohran more likely to hear you out when you have a suggestion. It's about the approach, brother. It's a never ending thing.
>>2574565You are 100% wrong. Engels said that a small minority in britan were labor aristocrats. This was before imperialism (monopolist capitalism) had developed into dominant form that exist today. You continue propagating the same tired anti-Lenin, anti-Communist, imperialist revisionism.
>>2574558This is old, insidious form of revisionism. The "no boots on the ground" revisionism. These wars use amerikkkan money to make amerikkkan weapon and are fought for amerikkkan so you are wrong.
>>2574621Okay thanks Obama
>>2574611>weWho is we? Are you a new yorker?
>>2574624like what do you think it's like actually being IN an org? How do you handle disagreements within an org itself? Do you even know what it's like? Because it's more than just calling people snakes and traitors for not being leftist enough lol. You have to actually use
soft skills to get what you want. This is basic shit, man.
Fascist country.
>>2574622I'm so fucking tired of people like you lmao. Sometimes I just come in here and call you people faggots just to blow off steam because of how thick you people are
The DSA are fascist collaborators. Zohran Mamdani is a fascist collaborator.
>>2574610i don't think it's divisive to bring it up. marx, engels, and lenin all brought it up. there are different reasons a person might bring it up.
And yes both a prole in the most crowded slum of New Delhi and a prole in a small town in America both are exploited for surplus value, but they have a huge amount of differences that will make it unlikely for them to cooperate, even when communists tell them to:
>language>religion>ethnicity>location>standard of living (this one is especially important)It's important to acknowledge that uphill battle.
>>2574615I made that image as a joke, but these are important questions.
>againwe never stopped doing it lol
>>2574626Soft skills are important, you know what else is important? Power, if we don’t have power and we don’t have people in positions of power willing to utilize it. There will be fascist around the corner more than willing to. If Zohran can’t get NYPD in line to stop cracking Palestine protesters skulls at bear minimum than he might as well not have won. What we really need is mayors willing to use police resources to arrest and prosecute ICE and shut down the millions of criminal orgs right wingers are running.
It’s also pretty ridiculous during this late into the collapse of the empire to be talking about shaking hands. No Zohran needs a threat from the left that can succeed him or force him to do what he was elected to. He’s a politician not our friend.
>>2574632all of the things you list as reasons why different working class populations would have difficulty working together pale in comparison to the barriers the bourgeoisie impose. So much so that it really is only useful to bring labor aristocracy up when being pedantic? like I find it truly unimportant unless someone is somehow confused in the year 2025 as to why the global north is "richer" than the global south.
Marx lenin and mao talked about labor aristocracy no dip, but they also weren't complete thirdworldists devoid of nuanced thinking. (although lenin was kind of shitty when it came to advice for western Europe. He really didn't understand how different it truly was and thought that the west could just do what he did and it would work)
Revolution status?
>>2574626>You have to actually use soft skills to get what you want. This is basic shit, man.One can imagine this also being said by a man in a top hat and monocle backing slowly away from an angry mob of workers with pitchforks and torches
>>2574637>He’s a politician not our friend.correct
>>2574637yeah we agree pretty much, I just think we disagree on tone. Vinegar vs honey. That's all I'm gonna say
>>2574610The point is to declare you a sinner, that’s literally all it is.
Also if we presume the labor aristocracy is inherently traitorous to socialism because of its class position and that it exists in a “global” sense by virtue of the immiserated workers of one nation belonging to the imperial nation while the immiserated workers belong to the conquered or colonized nations then at that point the notion of the proletariat becoming “a class for itself” seems functionally irrational.
Like it’s confirming class collaboration, not international solidarity among the workers. Because the expectation is that first world workers
do in fact have the same interests as the bourgeoise. So why go socialist? Because you won’t be part of a “class for itself”, you’ll be literally fighting against your supposed interests. So how in the world is nationalism not the more sensible approach in that circumstance? You can’t make the old claim that it encourages you to die to make someone else rich, in fact under such a bizarre analysis it’s
socialism that is trying to get you to die for high minded ideals that don’t benefit you.
Like everyone forgets that Marx wasn’t some moralist, he was trying to do objective, material analysis. He was trying to describe things on the basis of material reality, his theories are determined by their usefulness not their moral weight. It’s like how our model of the solar system is based on observable scientific reality and explicitly rejects Romantic notions placing us at the center of the universe.
This is essentially saying ᴉuᴉlossnW was right, that its national competition—not class conflict—that ultimately drives history.
>>2574638>lenin was kind of shitty when it came to advice for western Europe. He really didn't understand how different it truly was and thought that the west could just do what he did and it would workSpeak further on this. Elaborate. Tell me more.
>>2574643>The point is to declare you a sinner, that’s literally all it is.was lenin declaring people sinners?
>>2574637Getting the police to arrest ICE is basically a nonstarter. What would work best for Zohran is if he takes advantage of the budding potential for a mass movement and uses his charisma to whip his sizeable base into a radical fervor, willing to organize strikes and shutdowns and blockades to prevent opposition to Zohran's agenda from being able to counter them. We need to get out of this mindset that institutions of the state and the state itself can be molded to serve the needs of the proletariat, we're only going to get real results if we dont play by the rules the system sets out for us
>>2574646>I'm not religious, as you can see by this bible verse…lol
>>2574641>One can imagine this also being said by a man in a top hat and monocle backing slowly away from an angry mob of workers with pitchforks and torchesYeah of course but it's also not that time yet, it's not that bad yet, and you actually have to have a spontaneous mob of people who are actually pissed off enough about the problem. Which isn't going to be the case for the things mamdani has capitulated on.
If you're that surprised by mamdani's capitulations, you were naive to begin with.
>>2574615that's why proletariat has been restrained to simply be defined as the class of the society that produces value and does not subtract value from others as a form of subsistence, and doesn't own means of productions.
>>2574638>>2574632The trouble is that people have no nuance about the issue. It's fair to discuss the imperial core as the castle of capital. Now what is to be done in the castle compared to the town and the country? People don't make any concrete analysis of the situation they just screech JDPON. In the country, the principle contradiction is often between the people and imperialist oppression. In the town, the principle contradiction is typically between the workers and their exploitation by the capitalists. In the castle, I don't know what the principle contradiction is but clearly some sort of class contradictions exist.
>>2574651you don't care about lenin beyond the perception of authority that his name commands
>>2574648We need institutions though, I can agree that it’s unlikely any leftist mayor is gonna get the police on their side. They either need to purge the police, create a parallel institution or a combo of both.
>>2574650>If you're that surprised by mamdani's capitulations, you were naive to begin with.I kept warning people unreasonably excited over him that he would capitulate before he was even elected and was called an ultra wrecker and/or secret zionist for it
>>2574637Police Departments have never been at the whims of mayors or their cities. They are at the whims of the police unions.
>>2574645it's one of the reasons he wrote the "left communism an infantile disorder" and while the general vibe of that book was spot on, he still had points where he was trying to get the western communists to do what he did when it just wasn't possible because different things are different.
And besides all of that, Lenin's analysis of imperialism from the 1920s was just that: a snapshot of capitalism from 100 years ago. Things ARE actually different now, and you need to realize that or you won't be able to correctly interface with the world as it is. That is something Mao and subsequently China all the way until today actually DOES understand and fully embrace. Which is why they are so successful. Find a high level CPC official and ask him how much the concept of "labor aristocrat" matters in this day and age and he'd either look at you confused or laugh.
>>2574646People conjuring his ghost sure do. Of course it’s always the same with third worldists, they’ll completely strip a term of its context and make absurd claims, and then when they’re called out on it they drag Lenin’s carcass from its mausoleum to say “Lenin used the same words I do, you’re attacking Lenin!” Even as they come to conclusions that would’ve had Lenin call them Left-Coms.
>>2574599they blew past reactionary and are full blown fascists: they've got brownshirts yeeting anyone who looks tan and speaks spanish or portuguese, regardless of legal status, into concentration camps. they do this for deportation to labor camps in el salvador, and plan to extend the mexican holocaust to war in venezuela.
the racial caste system, self segregation to the point of apartheid, and imperial subjugation of the third world makes it really fucking hard for sane people to see a crackkka as a prole, and you should learn to accept that.
>>2574653>The trouble is that people have no nuance about the issue.I keep introducing nuance and getting ignored. here for example:
>>2574592I kepet posting those 3 quotes in the last thread and people get so mad at the lenin quote that they don't read the additional nuance poitnt I'm making with the marx quote. Or like this guy:
>>2574649 the very act of quoting induces the "LOL UR LITERALLY LIKE A BIBLE THUMPER" reaction
>. It's fair to discuss the imperial core as the castle of capital. Now what is to be done in the castle compared to the town and the country? People don't make any concrete analysis of the situation they just screech JDPONon the contrary, america will just nuke the planet before there is ever some kind of "JDPON invasion." The duty is for the imperial proletariat to stop being class collaborationist, whether that takes the form of labor aristocracy, or if it takes the form of volunteering for invasions of countries, like Iraq and Afghanistan. The point is to turn the imperial core capacity for violence inward on the imperial core capitalist class, rather than outward on 3rd world countries.
>In the country, the principle contradiction is often between the people and imperialist oppression. In the town, the principle contradiction is typically between the workers and their exploitation by the capitalists. In the castle, I don't know what the principle contradiction is but clearly some sort of class contradictions exist.I don't disagree and this is the same thing I am trying to say basically
>>2574656I mean it was absolutely important to support him in order for him to win no matter what at the time. But I also never really saw anyone getting that hopeful that he was going to be bringing communism or whatever but apparently they were just subconsciously projecting their schema's onto him I guess idk.
But yeah this is par for the course, standard socdem stuff, but at the same time: I support him and am in general very fucking grateful to see people like him winning elections. The same stuff happened with AOC, and while AOC hasn't gone as hard as I or many other people would like, it's still VERY ADVANTAGEOUS to have her in office, and that is just something that cannot really be overstated.
>>2574662>People conjuring his ghost sure do. did you read the latter two quotes in
>>2574592 or not
>>2574668> But I also never really saw anyone getting that hopeful that he was going to be bringing communism or whatever people were literally posting "Zohran MAOmdani" memes on here and any pushback to them, no matter how measured or careful, got you called a seething crypto zionist
truly third worldist is the new tankie lmao
>>2574673tankie got worn-out after it was confirmed that Hungary had a color revolution and was alright to crush the CIA backed 'revolution', with tanks rolling over the chuds.
>Tucker Carlson tells Shawn Ryan’s show that Zionism is “an attack on Western civilization.” Tucker also says that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is Western civilization’s “main enemy” and compares him to the Nazis.
>>2574673Tankie = Stalinist, Maoist-Third Worldist is self-explanatory.
>>2574632What the fuck? Are Nazis just right and we can't overcome cultural differences or something? Communists have been one of the most successful groups in history in overcoming those issues.
>>2574671Yes, and unlike the modern people tossing Lenin’s corpse in front of them, Lenin didn’t use moralistic exclamations and declare the whole of the proletariat of whatever advanced nations as reprehensible and irredeemable. Those who use the “labor aristocracy” term today aren’t doing analysis, they’re making moral claims and using it to attack workers in the “imperial core”.
>>2574676"tankie" was only about hungary when it first started being used in british communist circles in the 50s. by the time it appeared online in the 00s it was used to mean "stalinism"
then it got extended to mean "anyone more revolutionary than ronald reagan" through gradual misuse
>>2574672I think maybe they were joking or something and it just went over your head probably but I could be wrong.
Either way, this is America, and a lot of people have a hard time wrapping their head around the weird system we have. It's actually a fucking miracle in my opinion that demsocs have been winning like they have, considering how fucked and repressive our system is for leftists in general. It really shows a breakdown in the ruling class repressive apparatuses.
We don't have literal communists running and winning (yet) I would say it's absolutely a definite win and I'm glad because I never thought I'd live to see the day to be honest. I'm over 30 years old, and maybe you young whippersnappers don't know what it was like back in my day, but this really is a fucking awesome achievement, just to have someone who calls themselves a socialist on national television get a position like this is fucking amazing.
People need to keep pushing him, but REALLY what needs to be done is we need MORE PEOPLE LIKE HIM not just replacing him, so that there's less need to capitulate in the first place.
American politics is quite unique and ad hoc and fucking retarded, and a lot of people who don't live here don't understand that. But I think we're making excellent progress in the belly of the beast.
>>2574681so if you read the latter two quotes, what do you think I was trying to say? Because you seem to think i am saying the opposite.
>>2574679https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maoism%E2%80%93Third_WorldismLike you faggots do everything to a fucking tee, then go REEEE HOW DARE YOU USE THE ESTABLISHED TERM FOR MY BELIEFS!
>Maoism–Third Worldism (MTW) is a broad tendency which is mainly concerned with the infusion and synthesis of Marxism—particularly of the Marxist–Leninist–Maoist persuasion—with concepts of non-Marxist Third Worldism, namely dependency theory and world-systems theory.
>There is no general consensus on part of Maoist–Third Worldists as a whole. However, the majority of proponents typically argue for the centrality of anti-imperialism to the victory of global communist revolution as well as against the idea that the working class in the First World is majority-exploited (sometimes arguing that it experiences no exploitation at all) and therefore it is not a part of the international proletariat, but rather labor aristocracy.
>Maoism–Third Worldism is theoretically defined by a variety of political principles which emphasize the enormous economic, social and political divisions which exist currently between the "overdeveloped" First World and "underdeveloped" Third World. This is expressed through the lens of Maoist theory and practice - brought into a new, international understanding of imperialism and class - in the context of the world divided into two distinct camps; the exploited countries (the Third World) and their exploiters (the First World). >>2574683no, i did not have a joke "go over my head" thank you very much. people in the lead up to the NYC election were in fact shilling zohran on here, and both the shills and the skeptics were calling each other crypto zionists.
>>2574683*more people like him working in parallel and alongside him* (edit for clarity)
so that he doesn't need to capitulate in the first place
>>2574687Buddy what is "shilling" to you? Because it was absolutely necessary to support zohran for election almost no matter what. That's just a fact. Even if he isn't perfect, it's the most blatantly obvious thing to do with no room for debate that I'm having trouble what you even mean by "shilling"
>>2574667>The point is to turn the imperial core capacity for violence inward on the imperial core capitalist class, rather than outward on 3rd world countries.mate every time their imperial violence is turned inward it's directed at minorities or children. it's being turned inwards right now and everyone is me ne fregoing their way thru a holocaust of the actual working class.
>>2574690and again, just for clarity, supporting him no matter what for the *election* is important, and especially over other any other party's candidate. Now, of course, you should still support him in the face of republicans (the few that exist in new york) but it is much more reasonable to criticize him now that the election is over.
>>2574690shilling in the sense of pretending he was actually going to be able to do stuff as a mayor instead of just be a cog in a bourgeois political machine
>>2574691people who don't live here really think this is a majority white country or something like EU and not an unfathomably diverse place moreso than almost any other place on earth
>>2574691>inward on the imperial core capitalist class,do i have to highlight it?
>>2574673>>2574676>>2574679>>2574682once 'tankie' and now 'third worldist' is just 'anyone to the left of me who makes me uncomfortable'. i mean just look at how it sends CPUSAnon into hysterics
>>2574693yeah that's not shilling, and also he IS going to be able to do stuff as a mayor, and he's NOT just a cog dude lmao. You really have a problem thinking in black and white. Like he's going to be a blend of all that for sure, but you can't just assume that because he's a politician he loses all autonomy.
oh yeah. shots heard near the white house. whatever.
>>2574697womp womp oh well
>>2574699let's see what happens
>>2574699was it out of his hands to keep tisch?
>WASHINGTON (AP) — Two National Guard members have been shot in Washington, D.C., and their condition isn't known, AP source says.
FELIX WHAT HAVE YOU DONE????
>>2574697anotha crakkka down?
>>2574707At least one is dead af
>>2574706probably not but I would imagine there were conversations being had and whatnot. I would imagine that it's not as catastrophic a decision as some people are making it out to be. And besides, if he even follows through with just 1 of his promises then that's better than anything else.
Like you can sit here and look at the failings but you refuse to compare it to just how fucked it would have been under any of the other retards running. Even if all mamdani does is keep things exactly where they are that would be better than anything the other guys would have done lol. (obviously that's not my actual bar for an acceptable mayoral term but you get the point I hope)
>>2574694it's an unbelievably diverse place where the boundaries between ethnic communities are delineated extremely sharply and the media is bricked solid with racist jokes and cops are deployed mostly to harass black and mexican communities.
the economic disparity between the haves and have nots in the USA is worse than apartheid south africa. even libtards acknowledge this.
>>2574695you don't get to plead a special case and have to deal with the real consequences of deadshit ideas.
>>2574713>Like you can sit here and look at the failings but you refuse to compare it to just how fucked it would have been under any of the other retards running.I am able to see both, and do in fact see both. ITT I always moderate the positions of everyone I talk to. I am very annoying. I try to moderate both the felixes and the CPUSAnons, if you catch my drift.
>>2574716isn't scrum some kind of software development method
>>2574719i thought it was a rugby thing
>>2574717motherfucker I LIVE here don't lecture me about the fucking state of racism. Believe it or not but when the cops aren't involved (which is most the time) the diverse working class gets along with each other regardless of ethnicity etc. I don't really know what your point is but you're a fucking faggot and I don't like you
>>2574717>you don't get to plead a special case and have to deal with the real consequences of deadshit ideas.all I said is that the imperial core proletariat should fight the imperial core capitalists and not volunteer for forever wars. why is that so controversial? And why do people always think I am trying to say some other random "TWist" caricature shit based on negative conversations they had with other anons?
>>2574717>boundaries between ethnic communities are delineated extremely clearly you've never been to New Jersey or Texas, just to name two examples
>>2574724you're preaching to the choir on a leftist board so we're assuming you mean something else because why would you say something everyone already fucking knows and is actively working towards right now?z
>>2574727because I see people fighting on here and making very low quality posts but both sides make decent points. so i try to articulate and synthesize the good points both sides have, but they accuse me of being each other. like the felixes on here will accuse me of being CPUSAnon and vice-versa.
>>2574718>I am very annoyingYeah I fucking bet if you're acting like CPUSAnon isn't the single most chill and reasonable communist on this entire website, especially in comparison to the TWisters felix. He's the only one here who actually knows how to have a level headed conversation and I look up to him no joke lol
Being a centrist between:
complete and totally unhinged retard and
guy with normal takes makes you half retarded
>>2574731=/
see man, this is what i mean
>>2574733Don’t worry anon I agree with you and take a similar tact. I think CPUSanon is one of the best poster on this site but also I do like Felix’s passion.
they are saying it was an 'arab muslim'
>>2574684was still hoping for an answer to this btw. i think there's a misunderstanding, but I have to ask what you think I'm trying to say, to be sure, rather than assume.
>>2574729https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_biaslike I said, I fucking live here dude. You have these weird moments that pop off where a perfect storm of retards show up somewhere but the vast majority of everyday life is normal and I can attest to that. I'm a white dude who has held jobs working alongside almost every single culture you can imagine and it's very chill almost all the time. Sure, the elites are racist dipshits but that's to be expected. The working class here is naturally progressive because we HAVE to be, except for a few pockets in a few sectors that for whatever reason seem to segregate or be more culturally uniform (but those are few and far between)
>>2574733try having actual opinions you yourself hold based on your own experiences and understanding of things using primary sources etc instead of just trying to find middle ground between two people for the sake of balance? idk what else to tell you
>>2574740i also live in america
> Sure, the elites are racist dipshits but that's to be expected. The working class here is naturally progressive because we HAVE to be, except for a few pockets in a few sectors that for whatever reason seem to segregate or be more culturally uniform (but those are few and far between)I've seen a lot of crazy racism but maybe it's because I live in a shitty state lol (no, I will not say which one)
>>2574730cpusanon is a straight up patsoc racist and never has any good points.
my bet is that the shooters politics will be schizophrenic nonsensical and indecipherable. just like the past couple of "poitically motivated" shooters
>>2574742I think Americans are racist but usually not in any consistent or reliable way. It’s why you have people like Catboy Mexican Nick and Candence owens talking about saving the white race and then on the flip side have white people doing black power and talking about overthrowing crackers. Really feels like people get into racism as something to do
>>2574741>try having actual opinions you yourself hold based on your own experiences and understanding of things using primary sources etc instead of just trying to find middle ground between two people for the sake of balance? I do both though. When I first got into "politics" as a kid it was because I was disgusted with the Iraq war, Abu Ghraib, other WORKING CLASS kids at my WORKING CLASS school calling me a faggot for not liking bush and the war, etc etc. that informed my politics and yes it did make me pretty hostile to even my "fellow working class" and then I discovered communism when I was older. So my "moderate" position is not for its own sake , but genuinely is "between" what I see out of, for example, your CPUSAnon types and your iron felix types. I do think there is a lot of national chauvinism, racism, and class collaboration that should be fought, and no I don't think it's "divisive" to bring up some of the perverse incentive structures that plague the US working class. And yes, I do think reactionary bigotry against minorities is holding us back more than pink haired SJWs who have idpol consciousness but lack class consciousness. That is what I try to bring to the table here.
>>2574742racism in the u.s is strange. The kind of racism you'll find in the south is different from out west for example. traditionally In the south living shoulder to shoulder with minorities was acceptable so long as they knew their place. In the west and kind of up north minorities were socially accepted as equals so long as they stayed in their own communities and out of sight
>>2574746i don't think a white person showing solidarity with the anti-racist struggles of black people, even if they use crude terms like "cracker" is the same thing as being a minority who is supporting white supremacy to be seen as "one of the good ones" on the "day of the rope" sorry.
>>2574741>real life experiences>primary sourceswho needs reality when you have anecdotes and propaganda? if you had even basic education you'd know that primary sources require context and the context is racial segregation normalised to the point of being self sustaining.
>>2574745That's most likely the case but my
true desire is that the two servicemen were trying to practice gun katas or some shit and accidentally shot themselves
>>2574718That's called being a contrarian, and yes, it is very annoying.
>>2574747all of that is fair I just want you to understand that everything you just said is almost exactly mine and cpusanons opinion note for note lol
>>2574731>>2574733>>2574735Yeah I think it's worth reiterating that Felix's problem isn't that he's necessarily wrong about shit (he's correct at least half of the time when talking about theory) or that he's too militant (if anything we could use that energy). No, the biggest issue with him is that he's a fucking joyless douchebag who engages in purposefully over the top comparisons to justify his absolute black and white worldview and is more concerned with fantasizing about killing leftists he disagrees with slightly (despite what he may profess, he's actually not very dissimilar to most anarcho-communists) than actually going out and doing anything himself. He genuinely views himself as some kind of elite rearguard who's better than the rest of us because we've committed the sin of not blowing up the White House 20 years ago while the Iraq War was going on, so we have to atone by sacrificing ourselves so that he can walk atop a road of corpses leading to the castle in the air. He's also completely incapable of actually socializing like a normal pereson, and cant hear anyone talk about any form of popular culture or media without immediately having some kind of breakdown.
Basically, for all of his theoretical prowress and militancy, Felix is decidedly anti-social and his caustic attitude is a net drain on any leftist activity. You can be the most immaculate Marxist on the planet but if your only strategy to convince people to do what you want is to scream at them for being literally worse than Hitler because they haven't formed an army yet then nobody is going to follow you. And that's a fact, Jack
>>2574756i see, well have a nice day if that is the case.
>>2574755it's not for the sake of contradicting people, but for the sake of getting them to stop attacking each other and assuming bad faith
>>2574759I believe in both Thomas Sankara's saying that the revolutionary must never be tired of explaining, and the old adage that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. felix understands the former, but not the latter.
Felix lost it
>>2574759felix doesn't have theoretical prowess at all he just goes through the effort of finding quotes and using jargon to justify his literal insanity. He's incoherent entirely because his brain is broken and needs meds for his actual anger problems.
Militancy is cool and all I guess but it's also like… if that was possible it would have happened by now. "revolutionary" communists have been pushing for "overthrow" or whatever for the past 100 years and it hasn't even come close to happening because obviously there's more important issues to worry about.
Most of us here have read as much as felix has, we're just not pedantic retards who cherry pick quotes in a literal bipolar manic rage
>>2574763there's an MIT study for everything
>>2574759You speak of leftist activity, yet the snakes have no leftist activity. The revisionist american Communist never even try to revolt in 106 years. They never build army. They support unions which support wars. So everything you say is wrong.
tbh the bolsheviks were a minority militant faction, we should be raising the revolutionary consciousness of the soldiers (and sailors) as well as the workers. Honolulu Naval Base will be our Kronstadt
I condemn all violence I am a good boy who believes the way to fix america is to vooot for aoc
>>2574771kill yourself retard. We've tried multiple times and I could get the receipts if you really care to know, and every time we've been obliterated.
Change my view: Felix isn't real and it's CPUSA sockpuppeting to make himself look good by comparison
>>2574749Obviously they’re not the same, I guess a better example would be the white people that support the black Israelites. Sorry didn’t mean to say they were the same. I think Americans got a very twister and nonsensical view about race, it really feels like a mass identity crisis.
>>2574663>they blew past reactionary and are full blown fascistsIs the only difference scale, media attention or how white you feel it is? Obama did the same things, sat on top of the same system, bombed and coup several countries so why doesn't he get called fascist? Honestly feels like skin color is all you care about and you would ignore everything if Kamala was prez. Idpol behavior.
>>2574780> I think Americans got a very twister and nonsensical view about race, it really feels like a mass identity crisis.jesse what the fuck are you talking about? "mass identity crisis" motherfucker you just implied that the only americans are white lmao.
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