🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
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>>2571257Remember to filter mass tor baiters, feds, and trollsNot reporting is bourgeoisViolators will be launched from trebuchet >>2574566(repost)
he's being a coward for sure but I personally critically support him against every other choice we had at the moment. No one was expecting a flawless communist politician out of him, and besides: he's just a mayor. He's still a sign of left-wing progress and for all the shortcomings that are destined to show, I'm certain it's a step in the right direction to have him as mayor.
You say he's a snake when he never promised what you want. You call him a snake because he isn't a savior. That's on you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>2574573 (General Reposti, you are a bold one)
Anyone else notice that for all their squawking about how they have the materialist position, the "treatlerite" posters invariably resort to vibes based class analysis when confronted with the contradictions of their beliefs? When faced with irrefutable proof that most Americans have hollow, shitty lives regardless of how much line go up, suddenly they pivot to "yeah well they ASPIRE to be wealthy and that's what matters". Yeah unless you're like a literal fucking monk of course you're going to want to have more than you currently have, people resent being told that they have to accept their lot in life.
>>2574587leftypol's problem is that all 3 of the following quotes are correct, but most only heed one or two of them
<Obviously, out of such enormous superprofits (since they are obtained over and above the profits which capitalists squeeze out of the workers of their “own” country) it is possible to bribe the labour leaders and the upper stratum of the labour aristocracy. And that is just what the capitalists of the “advanced” countries are doing: they are bribing them in a thousand different ways, direct and indirect, overt and covert.
<This stratum of workers-turned-bourgeois, or the labour aristocracy, who are quite philistine in their mode of life, in the size of their earnings and in their entire outlook, is the principal prop of the Second International, and in our days, the principal social (not military) prop of the bourgeoisie. For they are the real agents of the bourgeoisie in the working-class movement, the labour lieutenants of the capitalist class, real vehicles of reformism and chauvinism. In the civil war between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie they inevitably, and in no small numbers, take the side of the bourgeoisie, the “Versaillese” against the “Communards.”
<Private property based on the labour of the small proprietor, free competition, democracy, all the catchwords with which the capitalists and their press deceive the workers and the peasants are things of the distant past. Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and of the financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the population of the world by a handful of “advanced” countries. And this “booty” is shared between two or three powerful world plunderers armed to the teeth (America, Great Britain, Japan), who are drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their booty. - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, PREFACE TO THE FRENCH AND GERMAN EDITIONS
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/pref02.htm
<The thoughts of every piece of private property as such are at least turned against richer private property in the form of envy and the desire to level everything down; hence these feelings in fact constitute the essence of competition. The crude communist is merely the culmination of this envy and desire to level down on the basis of a preconceived minimum. It has a definite, limited measure. How little this abolition of private property is a true appropriation is shown by the abstract negation of the entire world of culture and civilization, and the return to the unnatural simplicity of the poor, unrefined man who has no needs and who has not yet even reached the stage of private property, let along gone beyond it. (For crude communism) the community is simply a community of labor and equality of wages, which are paid out by the communal capital, the community as universal capitalist. Both sides of the relation are raised to an unimaginary universality – labor as the condition in which everyone is placed and capital as the acknowledged universality and power of the community. […] The first positive abolition of private property – crude communism – is therefore only a manifestation of the vileness of private property trying to establish itself as the positive community. […] By reducing the worker's needs to the paltriest minimum necessary to maintain his physical existence and by reducing his activity to the most abstract mechanical movement. In so doing, the political economist declares that man has no other needs, either in the sphere of activity or in that of consumption. For even this life he calls human life and human existence. By taking as his standard – his universal standard, in the sense that it applies to the mass of men – the worst possible state of privation which life (existence) can know. He turns the worker into a being with neither needs nor senses and turn the worker's activity into a pure abstraction from all activity. Hence any luxury that the worker might enjoy is reprehensible, and anything that goes beyond the most abstract need – either in the form of passive enjoyment or active expression – appears to him as a luxury.- Karl Marx, Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts, Third Manuscript, Private Property and Labor (1844)
<A house may be large or small; as long as the neighboring houses are likewise small, it satisfies all social requirement for a residence. But let there arise next to the little house a palace, and the little house shrinks to a hut. The little house now makes it clear that its inmate has no social position at all to maintain, or but a very insignificant one; and however high it may shoot up in the course of civilization, if the neighboring palace rises in equal or even in greater measure, the occupant of the relatively little house will always find himself more uncomfortable, more dissatisfied, more cramped within his four walls. An appreciable rise in wages presupposes a rapid growth of productive capital. Rapid growth of productive capital calls forth just as rapid a growth of wealth, of luxury, of social needs and social pleasures. Therefore, although the pleasures of the labourer have increased, the social gratification which they afford has fallen in comparison with the increased pleasures of the capitalist, which are inaccessible to the worker, in comparison with the stage of development of society in general. Our wants and pleasures have their origin in society; we therefore measure them in relation to society; we do not measure them in relation to the objects which serve for their gratification. Since they are of a social nature, they are of a relative nature.- Karl Marx, Wage Labour and Capital (1847), Chapter 6
The concept of labour aristocracy doesn't even make sense if you claim the entire proletariat of a country are labor aristocrats. Jesus Christ you people are retarded.
>>2574576No we can’t rest on our laurels, if DSA is serious they’ll threaten to primary Zohran if he doesn’t shape up. That’s how the GOP became what it is, the tea party psychos of yesteryear are moderates compared to tpublicans and they’re getting punched from the right by gryopers.
>>2574587if people contented themselves with calling americans "reactionary" they would find less pushback. but they resort to calling them inaccurate things like "petit bourgeois" or "labor aristocracy" because it sounds like it has more force behind it. (and it gets more (You)'s)
>>2574598>if DSA is serious they’ll threaten to primary ZohranThat's not how any of that works lol
>>2574596Unironically I’m pretty sure Sakai is responsible for the modern usage of it in that way. Theres a part in settlers where, to give himself the illusion of being “scientific” he points to specific industries or jobs and says “60% of the workers here are labor aristocrats”. He never shares his formula for determining what a labor aristocrat is, or how he even arrived at those numbers, he just throws out percentages and treats it as settled fact. Real “60% of the time, it works every time.”
>>2574598Yeah that's why I said "critically support". It's important to weigh the pros and cons though. And to understand how much is it worth to put THAT much effort into what is, literally just electoral politics. He should have pressure on him from the left at all times, of course I agree with that. But to expect him to meet every single challenge perfectly and most "leftistly" is forgetting the very nature of the position he holds.
My point was not to discourage the pressure he needs, but more to stop hemming and hawing that he capitulates as an elected mayor in fucking new york. No fucking dip, dude. But calling him a "snake" is just giving up. You gotta realize that politics is really fucking intricate, and that you need to pet the donkey in the direction of its fur, no matter how upset you are.
>>2574596proletariat = immiserated propertyless wage workers earning subsistence wage
but putting that aside, labor aristocracy can be relative or absolute
If you're talking about America, it can be said that there is a labor aristocracy within America who has it better than other workers in America.
If you're talking about the global working class, there is a global labor aristocracy in the imperial core who has it better than workers in the periphery.
A lot of what gets lost in translation is that some people are saying "I am not a labor aristocrat" in the relative/local sense, while the others are talking about in the absolute/global sense.
>the reply.>>2574575>>2574569they are juicy even if you are a new hire, much better than the average market.
holly shite, people can't grasp the categorizations I did here:
>and if anything, most workers in America either believe they are labor aristocracy, where most of those who believe they are labor aristocracy love to believe they are, are labor aristocracy, or aspire to be one.>>2574564>>2574567>>2574573you are either obfuscated by your pride to effectively differentiate what I describe workers are with what they pretend to be, and how that affects your capacity to counter capitalism in a meaningful way or you are simply a reflection of how poorly the American education system teaches you to discern, connect two sentences to form a broader idea and have a critical thinking.
>>2574607yeah ok but like what is the fucking POINT of bringing that up in the first place?? What does that actually fucking help to have that analysis? Like dude the working class across the world have so much more in common with each other than with their respective bourg, so it's literally JUST divisive to even bring it up in the first place. So fucking annoying
>>2574602Yes it is, they can start laying the ground work and fielding another candidate for the next election. Idk what the cycle for NY mayor is, but the got plenty of time and we must always be demanding our politicians be further left.
The USA is objectively fascist. It has a fascist society.
Normalize calling the USA fascist. Do your part.
>>2574611buddy, politics isn't always about putting your foot down and hardballing everyone that disagrees with you no matter what. I'm sorry that's just how it works, because that's how
people work. This is a fundamentally human endeavor and you need to have more space in your brain than "do the most leftist thing in all instances or else". And you say all this as if you're the smartest cookie without realizing that maybe decisions are being made with pretty reasonable thought processes behind him.
In fact, if you DO assume that, then you're much more likely to get a word in and make people like zohran more likely to hear you out when you have a suggestion. It's about the approach, brother. It's a never ending thing.
>>2574565You are 100% wrong. Engels said that a small minority in britan were labor aristocrats. This was before imperialism (monopolist capitalism) had developed into dominant form that exist today. You continue propagating the same tired anti-Lenin, anti-Communist, imperialist revisionism.
>>2574558This is old, insidious form of revisionism. The "no boots on the ground" revisionism. These wars use amerikkkan money to make amerikkkan weapon and are fought for amerikkkan so you are wrong.
>>2574621Okay thanks Obama
>>2574611>weWho is we? Are you a new yorker?
>>2574624like what do you think it's like actually being IN an org? How do you handle disagreements within an org itself? Do you even know what it's like? Because it's more than just calling people snakes and traitors for not being leftist enough lol. You have to actually use
soft skills to get what you want. This is basic shit, man.
Fascist country.
>>2574622I'm so fucking tired of people like you lmao. Sometimes I just come in here and call you people faggots just to blow off steam because of how thick you people are
The DSA are fascist collaborators. Zohran Mamdani is a fascist collaborator.
>>2574610i don't think it's divisive to bring it up. marx, engels, and lenin all brought it up. there are different reasons a person might bring it up.
And yes both a prole in the most crowded slum of New Delhi and a prole in a small town in America both are exploited for surplus value, but they have a huge amount of differences that will make it unlikely for them to cooperate, even when communists tell them to:
>language>religion>ethnicity>location>standard of living (this one is especially important)It's important to acknowledge that uphill battle.
>>2574615I made that image as a joke, but these are important questions.
>againwe never stopped doing it lol
>>2574626Soft skills are important, you know what else is important? Power, if we don’t have power and we don’t have people in positions of power willing to utilize it. There will be fascist around the corner more than willing to. If Zohran can’t get NYPD in line to stop cracking Palestine protesters skulls at bear minimum than he might as well not have won. What we really need is mayors willing to use police resources to arrest and prosecute ICE and shut down the millions of criminal orgs right wingers are running.
It’s also pretty ridiculous during this late into the collapse of the empire to be talking about shaking hands. No Zohran needs a threat from the left that can succeed him or force him to do what he was elected to. He’s a politician not our friend.
>>2574632all of the things you list as reasons why different working class populations would have difficulty working together pale in comparison to the barriers the bourgeoisie impose. So much so that it really is only useful to bring labor aristocracy up when being pedantic? like I find it truly unimportant unless someone is somehow confused in the year 2025 as to why the global north is "richer" than the global south.
Marx lenin and mao talked about labor aristocracy no dip, but they also weren't complete thirdworldists devoid of nuanced thinking. (although lenin was kind of shitty when it came to advice for western Europe. He really didn't understand how different it truly was and thought that the west could just do what he did and it would work)
Revolution status?
>>2574626>You have to actually use soft skills to get what you want. This is basic shit, man.One can imagine this also being said by a man in a top hat and monocle backing slowly away from an angry mob of workers with pitchforks and torches
>>2574637>He’s a politician not our friend.correct
>>2574637yeah we agree pretty much, I just think we disagree on tone. Vinegar vs honey. That's all I'm gonna say
>>2574610The point is to declare you a sinner, that’s literally all it is.
Also if we presume the labor aristocracy is inherently traitorous to socialism because of its class position and that it exists in a “global” sense by virtue of the immiserated workers of one nation belonging to the imperial nation while the immiserated workers belong to the conquered or colonized nations then at that point the notion of the proletariat becoming “a class for itself” seems functionally irrational.
Like it’s confirming class collaboration, not international solidarity among the workers. Because the expectation is that first world workers
do in fact have the same interests as the bourgeoise. So why go socialist? Because you won’t be part of a “class for itself”, you’ll be literally fighting against your supposed interests. So how in the world is nationalism not the more sensible approach in that circumstance? You can’t make the old claim that it encourages you to die to make someone else rich, in fact under such a bizarre analysis it’s
socialism that is trying to get you to die for high minded ideals that don’t benefit you.
Like everyone forgets that Marx wasn’t some moralist, he was trying to do objective, material analysis. He was trying to describe things on the basis of material reality, his theories are determined by their usefulness not their moral weight. It’s like how our model of the solar system is based on observable scientific reality and explicitly rejects Romantic notions placing us at the center of the universe.
This is essentially saying ᴉuᴉlossnW was right, that its national competition—not class conflict—that ultimately drives history.
>>2574638>lenin was kind of shitty when it came to advice for western Europe. He really didn't understand how different it truly was and thought that the west could just do what he did and it would workSpeak further on this. Elaborate. Tell me more.
>>2574643>The point is to declare you a sinner, that’s literally all it is.was lenin declaring people sinners?
>>2574637Getting the police to arrest ICE is basically a nonstarter. What would work best for Zohran is if he takes advantage of the budding potential for a mass movement and uses his charisma to whip his sizeable base into a radical fervor, willing to organize strikes and shutdowns and blockades to prevent opposition to Zohran's agenda from being able to counter them. We need to get out of this mindset that institutions of the state and the state itself can be molded to serve the needs of the proletariat, we're only going to get real results if we dont play by the rules the system sets out for us
>>2574646>I'm not religious, as you can see by this bible verse…lol
>>2574641>One can imagine this also being said by a man in a top hat and monocle backing slowly away from an angry mob of workers with pitchforks and torchesYeah of course but it's also not that time yet, it's not that bad yet, and you actually have to have a spontaneous mob of people who are actually pissed off enough about the problem. Which isn't going to be the case for the things mamdani has capitulated on.
If you're that surprised by mamdani's capitulations, you were naive to begin with.
>>2574638>>2574632The trouble is that people have no nuance about the issue. It's fair to discuss the imperial core as the castle of capital. Now what is to be done in the castle compared to the town and the country? People don't make any concrete analysis of the situation they just screech JDPON. In the country, the principle contradiction is often between the people and imperialist oppression. In the town, the principle contradiction is typically between the workers and their exploitation by the capitalists. In the castle, I don't know what the principle contradiction is but clearly some sort of class contradictions exist.
>>2574651you don't care about lenin beyond the perception of authority that his name commands
>>2574648We need institutions though, I can agree that it’s unlikely any leftist mayor is gonna get the police on their side. They either need to purge the police, create a parallel institution or a combo of both.
>>2574650>If you're that surprised by mamdani's capitulations, you were naive to begin with.I kept warning people unreasonably excited over him that he would capitulate before he was even elected and was called an ultra wrecker and/or secret zionist for it
>>2574637Police Departments have never been at the whims of mayors or their cities. They are at the whims of the police unions.
>>2574645it's one of the reasons he wrote the "left communism an infantile disorder" and while the general vibe of that book was spot on, he still had points where he was trying to get the western communists to do what he did when it just wasn't possible because different things are different.
And besides all of that, Lenin's analysis of imperialism from the 1920s was just that: a snapshot of capitalism from 100 years ago. Things ARE actually different now, and you need to realize that or you won't be able to correctly interface with the world as it is. That is something Mao and subsequently China all the way until today actually DOES understand and fully embrace. Which is why they are so successful. Find a high level CPC official and ask him how much the concept of "labor aristocrat" matters in this day and age and he'd either look at you confused or laugh.
>>2574646People conjuring his ghost sure do. Of course it’s always the same with third worldists, they’ll completely strip a term of its context and make absurd claims, and then when they’re called out on it they drag Lenin’s carcass from its mausoleum to say “Lenin used the same words I do, you’re attacking Lenin!” Even as they come to conclusions that would’ve had Lenin call them Left-Coms.
>>2574599they blew past reactionary and are full blown fascists: they've got brownshirts yeeting anyone who looks tan and speaks spanish or portuguese, regardless of legal status, into concentration camps. they do this for deportation to labor camps in el salvador, and plan to extend the mexican holocaust to war in venezuela.
the racial caste system, self segregation to the point of apartheid, and imperial subjugation of the third world makes it really fucking hard for sane people to see a crackkka as a prole, and you should learn to accept that.
>>2574653>The trouble is that people have no nuance about the issue.I keep introducing nuance and getting ignored. here for example:
>>2574592I kepet posting those 3 quotes in the last thread and people get so mad at the lenin quote that they don't read the additional nuance poitnt I'm making with the marx quote. Or like this guy:
>>2574649 the very act of quoting induces the "LOL UR LITERALLY LIKE A BIBLE THUMPER" reaction
>. It's fair to discuss the imperial core as the castle of capital. Now what is to be done in the castle compared to the town and the country? People don't make any concrete analysis of the situation they just screech JDPONon the contrary, america will just nuke the planet before there is ever some kind of "JDPON invasion." The duty is for the imperial proletariat to stop being class collaborationist, whether that takes the form of labor aristocracy, or if it takes the form of volunteering for invasions of countries, like Iraq and Afghanistan. The point is to turn the imperial core capacity for violence inward on the imperial core capitalist class, rather than outward on 3rd world countries.
>In the country, the principle contradiction is often between the people and imperialist oppression. In the town, the principle contradiction is typically between the workers and their exploitation by the capitalists. In the castle, I don't know what the principle contradiction is but clearly some sort of class contradictions exist.I don't disagree and this is the same thing I am trying to say basically
>>2574656I mean it was absolutely important to support him in order for him to win no matter what at the time. But I also never really saw anyone getting that hopeful that he was going to be bringing communism or whatever but apparently they were just subconsciously projecting their schema's onto him I guess idk.
But yeah this is par for the course, standard socdem stuff, but at the same time: I support him and am in general very fucking grateful to see people like him winning elections. The same stuff happened with AOC, and while AOC hasn't gone as hard as I or many other people would like, it's still VERY ADVANTAGEOUS to have her in office, and that is just something that cannot really be overstated.
>>2574662>People conjuring his ghost sure do. did you read the latter two quotes in
>>2574592 or not
>>2574668> But I also never really saw anyone getting that hopeful that he was going to be bringing communism or whatever people were literally posting "Zohran MAOmdani" memes on here and any pushback to them, no matter how measured or careful, got you called a seething crypto zionist
truly third worldist is the new tankie lmao
>Tucker Carlson tells Shawn Ryan’s show that Zionism is “an attack on Western civilization.” Tucker also says that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is Western civilization’s “main enemy” and compares him to the Nazis.
>>2574673Tankie = Stalinist, Maoist-Third Worldist is self-explanatory.
>>2574632What the fuck? Are Nazis just right and we can't overcome cultural differences or something? Communists have been one of the most successful groups in history in overcoming those issues.
>>2574671Yes, and unlike the modern people tossing Lenin’s corpse in front of them, Lenin didn’t use moralistic exclamations and declare the whole of the proletariat of whatever advanced nations as reprehensible and irredeemable. Those who use the “labor aristocracy” term today aren’t doing analysis, they’re making moral claims and using it to attack workers in the “imperial core”.
>>2574676
"tankie" was only about hungary when it first started being used in british communist circles in the 50s. by the time it appeared online in the 00s it was used to mean "stalinism"
then it got extended to mean "anyone more revolutionary than ronald reagan" through gradual misuse
>>2574672I think maybe they were joking or something and it just went over your head probably but I could be wrong.
Either way, this is America, and a lot of people have a hard time wrapping their head around the weird system we have. It's actually a fucking miracle in my opinion that demsocs have been winning like they have, considering how fucked and repressive our system is for leftists in general. It really shows a breakdown in the ruling class repressive apparatuses.
We don't have literal communists running and winning (yet) I would say it's absolutely a definite win and I'm glad because I never thought I'd live to see the day to be honest. I'm over 30 years old, and maybe you young whippersnappers don't know what it was like back in my day, but this really is a fucking awesome achievement, just to have someone who calls themselves a socialist on national television get a position like this is fucking amazing.
People need to keep pushing him, but REALLY what needs to be done is we need MORE PEOPLE LIKE HIM not just replacing him, so that there's less need to capitulate in the first place.
American politics is quite unique and ad hoc and fucking retarded, and a lot of people who don't live here don't understand that. But I think we're making excellent progress in the belly of the beast.
>>2574681so if you read the latter two quotes, what do you think I was trying to say? Because you seem to think i am saying the opposite.
>>2574679https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maoism%E2%80%93Third_WorldismLike you faggots do everything to a fucking tee, then go REEEE HOW DARE YOU USE THE ESTABLISHED TERM FOR MY BELIEFS!
>Maoism–Third Worldism (MTW) is a broad tendency which is mainly concerned with the infusion and synthesis of Marxism—particularly of the Marxist–Leninist–Maoist persuasion—with concepts of non-Marxist Third Worldism, namely dependency theory and world-systems theory.
>There is no general consensus on part of Maoist–Third Worldists as a whole. However, the majority of proponents typically argue for the centrality of anti-imperialism to the victory of global communist revolution as well as against the idea that the working class in the First World is majority-exploited (sometimes arguing that it experiences no exploitation at all) and therefore it is not a part of the international proletariat, but rather labor aristocracy.
>Maoism–Third Worldism is theoretically defined by a variety of political principles which emphasize the enormous economic, social and political divisions which exist currently between the "overdeveloped" First World and "underdeveloped" Third World. This is expressed through the lens of Maoist theory and practice - brought into a new, international understanding of imperialism and class - in the context of the world divided into two distinct camps; the exploited countries (the Third World) and their exploiters (the First World). >>2574683no, i did not have a joke "go over my head" thank you very much. people in the lead up to the NYC election were in fact shilling zohran on here, and both the shills and the skeptics were calling each other crypto zionists.
>>2574683*more people like him working in parallel and alongside him* (edit for clarity)
so that he doesn't need to capitulate in the first place
>>2574687Buddy what is "shilling" to you? Because it was absolutely necessary to support zohran for election almost no matter what. That's just a fact. Even if he isn't perfect, it's the most blatantly obvious thing to do with no room for debate that I'm having trouble what you even mean by "shilling"
>>2574667>The point is to turn the imperial core capacity for violence inward on the imperial core capitalist class, rather than outward on 3rd world countries.mate every time their imperial violence is turned inward it's directed at minorities or children. it's being turned inwards right now and everyone is me ne fregoing their way thru a holocaust of the actual working class.
>>2574690and again, just for clarity, supporting him no matter what for the *election* is important, and especially over other any other party's candidate. Now, of course, you should still support him in the face of republicans (the few that exist in new york) but it is much more reasonable to criticize him now that the election is over.
>>2574690shilling in the sense of pretending he was actually going to be able to do stuff as a mayor instead of just be a cog in a bourgeois political machine
>>2574691people who don't live here really think this is a majority white country or something like EU and not an unfathomably diverse place moreso than almost any other place on earth
>>2574691>inward on the imperial core capitalist class,do i have to highlight it?
>>2574673>>2574676>>2574679>>2574682once 'tankie' and now 'third worldist' is just 'anyone to the left of me who makes me uncomfortable'. i mean just look at how it sends CPUSAnon into hysterics
>>2574693yeah that's not shilling, and also he IS going to be able to do stuff as a mayor, and he's NOT just a cog dude lmao. You really have a problem thinking in black and white. Like he's going to be a blend of all that for sure, but you can't just assume that because he's a politician he loses all autonomy.
oh yeah. shots heard near the white house. whatever.
>>2574697
womp womp oh well
>>2574699let's see what happens
>>2574699was it out of his hands to keep tisch?
>WASHINGTON (AP) — Two National Guard members have been shot in Washington, D.C., and their condition isn't known, AP source says.
FELIX WHAT HAVE YOU DONE????
>>2574697
anotha crakkka down?
>>2574706probably not but I would imagine there were conversations being had and whatnot. I would imagine that it's not as catastrophic a decision as some people are making it out to be. And besides, if he even follows through with just 1 of his promises then that's better than anything else.
Like you can sit here and look at the failings but you refuse to compare it to just how fucked it would have been under any of the other retards running. Even if all mamdani does is keep things exactly where they are that would be better than anything the other guys would have done lol. (obviously that's not my actual bar for an acceptable mayoral term but you get the point I hope)
>>2574694it's an unbelievably diverse place where the boundaries between ethnic communities are delineated extremely sharply and the media is bricked solid with racist jokes and cops are deployed mostly to harass black and mexican communities.
the economic disparity between the haves and have nots in the USA is worse than apartheid south africa. even libtards acknowledge this.
>>2574695you don't get to plead a special case and have to deal with the real consequences of deadshit ideas.
>>2574713>Like you can sit here and look at the failings but you refuse to compare it to just how fucked it would have been under any of the other retards running.I am able to see both, and do in fact see both. ITT I always moderate the positions of everyone I talk to. I am very annoying. I try to moderate both the felixes and the CPUSAnons, if you catch my drift.
>>2574716isn't scrum some kind of software development method
>>2574719i thought it was a rugby thing
>>2574717motherfucker I LIVE here don't lecture me about the fucking state of racism. Believe it or not but when the cops aren't involved (which is most the time) the diverse working class gets along with each other regardless of ethnicity etc. I don't really know what your point is but you're a fucking faggot and I don't like you
>>2574717>you don't get to plead a special case and have to deal with the real consequences of deadshit ideas.all I said is that the imperial core proletariat should fight the imperial core capitalists and not volunteer for forever wars. why is that so controversial? And why do people always think I am trying to say some other random "TWist" caricature shit based on negative conversations they had with other anons?
>>2574717>boundaries between ethnic communities are delineated extremely clearly you've never been to New Jersey or Texas, just to name two examples
>>2574724you're preaching to the choir on a leftist board so we're assuming you mean something else because why would you say something everyone already fucking knows and is actively working towards right now?z
>>2574727because I see people fighting on here and making very low quality posts but both sides make decent points. so i try to articulate and synthesize the good points both sides have, but they accuse me of being each other. like the felixes on here will accuse me of being CPUSAnon and vice-versa.
>>2574718>I am very annoyingYeah I fucking bet if you're acting like CPUSAnon isn't the single most chill and reasonable communist on this entire website, especially in comparison to the TWisters felix. He's the only one here who actually knows how to have a level headed conversation and I look up to him no joke lol
Being a centrist between:
complete and totally unhinged retard and
guy with normal takes makes you half retarded
>>2574731=/
see man, this is what i mean
>>2574733Don’t worry anon I agree with you and take a similar tact. I think CPUSanon is one of the best poster on this site but also I do like Felix’s passion.
they are saying it was an 'arab muslim'
>>2574684was still hoping for an answer to this btw. i think there's a misunderstanding, but I have to ask what you think I'm trying to say, to be sure, rather than assume.
>>2574729https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_biaslike I said, I fucking live here dude. You have these weird moments that pop off where a perfect storm of retards show up somewhere but the vast majority of everyday life is normal and I can attest to that. I'm a white dude who has held jobs working alongside almost every single culture you can imagine and it's very chill almost all the time. Sure, the elites are racist dipshits but that's to be expected. The working class here is naturally progressive because we HAVE to be, except for a few pockets in a few sectors that for whatever reason seem to segregate or be more culturally uniform (but those are few and far between)
>>2574733try having actual opinions you yourself hold based on your own experiences and understanding of things using primary sources etc instead of just trying to find middle ground between two people for the sake of balance? idk what else to tell you
>>2574740i also live in america
> Sure, the elites are racist dipshits but that's to be expected. The working class here is naturally progressive because we HAVE to be, except for a few pockets in a few sectors that for whatever reason seem to segregate or be more culturally uniform (but those are few and far between)I've seen a lot of crazy racism but maybe it's because I live in a shitty state lol (no, I will not say which one)
>>2574730cpusanon is a straight up patsoc racist and never has any good points.
my bet is that the shooters politics will be schizophrenic nonsensical and indecipherable. just like the past couple of "poitically motivated" shooters
>>2574742I think Americans are racist but usually not in any consistent or reliable way. It’s why you have people like Catboy Mexican Nick and Candence owens talking about saving the white race and then on the flip side have white people doing black power and talking about overthrowing crackers. Really feels like people get into racism as something to do
>>2574741>try having actual opinions you yourself hold based on your own experiences and understanding of things using primary sources etc instead of just trying to find middle ground between two people for the sake of balance? I do both though. When I first got into "politics" as a kid it was because I was disgusted with the Iraq war, Abu Ghraib, other WORKING CLASS kids at my WORKING CLASS school calling me a faggot for not liking bush and the war, etc etc. that informed my politics and yes it did make me pretty hostile to even my "fellow working class" and then I discovered communism when I was older. So my "moderate" position is not for its own sake , but genuinely is "between" what I see out of, for example, your CPUSAnon types and your iron felix types. I do think there is a lot of national chauvinism, racism, and class collaboration that should be fought, and no I don't think it's "divisive" to bring up some of the perverse incentive structures that plague the US working class. And yes, I do think reactionary bigotry against minorities is holding us back more than pink haired SJWs who have idpol consciousness but lack class consciousness. That is what I try to bring to the table here.
>>2574742racism in the u.s is strange. The kind of racism you'll find in the south is different from out west for example. traditionally In the south living shoulder to shoulder with minorities was acceptable so long as they knew their place. In the west and kind of up north minorities were socially accepted as equals so long as they stayed in their own communities and out of sight
>>2574746i don't think a white person showing solidarity with the anti-racist struggles of black people, even if they use crude terms like "cracker" is the same thing as being a minority who is supporting white supremacy to be seen as "one of the good ones" on the "day of the rope" sorry.
>>2574741>real life experiences>primary sourceswho needs reality when you have anecdotes and propaganda? if you had even basic education you'd know that primary sources require context and the context is racial segregation normalised to the point of being self sustaining.
>>2574745That's most likely the case but my
true desire is that the two servicemen were trying to practice gun katas or some shit and accidentally shot themselves
>>2574718That's called being a contrarian, and yes, it is very annoying.
>>2574747all of that is fair I just want you to understand that everything you just said is almost exactly mine and cpusanons opinion note for note lol
>>2574731>>2574733>>2574735Yeah I think it's worth reiterating that Felix's problem isn't that he's necessarily wrong about shit (he's correct at least half of the time when talking about theory) or that he's too militant (if anything we could use that energy). No, the biggest issue with him is that he's a fucking joyless douchebag who engages in purposefully over the top comparisons to justify his absolute black and white worldview and is more concerned with fantasizing about killing leftists he disagrees with slightly (despite what he may profess, he's actually not very dissimilar to most anarcho-communists) than actually going out and doing anything himself. He genuinely views himself as some kind of elite rearguard who's better than the rest of us because we've committed the sin of not blowing up the White House 20 years ago while the Iraq War was going on, so we have to atone by sacrificing ourselves so that he can walk atop a road of corpses leading to the castle in the air. He's also completely incapable of actually socializing like a normal pereson, and cant hear anyone talk about any form of popular culture or media without immediately having some kind of breakdown.
Basically, for all of his theoretical prowress and militancy, Felix is decidedly anti-social and his caustic attitude is a net drain on any leftist activity. You can be the most immaculate Marxist on the planet but if your only strategy to convince people to do what you want is to scream at them for being literally worse than Hitler because they haven't formed an army yet then nobody is going to follow you. And that's a fact, Jack
>>2574756i see, well have a nice day if that is the case.
>>2574755it's not for the sake of contradicting people, but for the sake of getting them to stop attacking each other and assuming bad faith
>>2574759I believe in both Thomas Sankara's saying that the revolutionary must never be tired of explaining, and the old adage that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. felix understands the former, but not the latter.
Felix lost it
>>2574759felix doesn't have theoretical prowess at all he just goes through the effort of finding quotes and using jargon to justify his literal insanity. He's incoherent entirely because his brain is broken and needs meds for his actual anger problems.
Militancy is cool and all I guess but it's also like… if that was possible it would have happened by now. "revolutionary" communists have been pushing for "overthrow" or whatever for the past 100 years and it hasn't even come close to happening because obviously there's more important issues to worry about.
Most of us here have read as much as felix has, we're just not pedantic retards who cherry pick quotes in a literal bipolar manic rage
>>2574763there's an MIT study for everything
>>2574759You speak of leftist activity, yet the snakes have no leftist activity. The revisionist american Communist never even try to revolt in 106 years. They never build army. They support unions which support wars. So everything you say is wrong.
tbh the bolsheviks were a minority militant faction, we should be raising the revolutionary consciousness of the soldiers (and sailors) as well as the workers. Honolulu Naval Base will be our Kronstadt
I condemn all violence I am a good boy who believes the way to fix america is to vooot for aoc
>>2574771kill yourself retard. We've tried multiple times and I could get the receipts if you really care to know, and every time we've been obliterated.
Change my view: Felix isn't real and it's CPUSA sockpuppeting to make himself look good by comparison
>>2574749Obviously they’re not the same, I guess a better example would be the white people that support the black Israelites. Sorry didn’t mean to say they were the same. I think Americans got a very twister and nonsensical view about race, it really feels like a mass identity crisis.
>>2574663>they blew past reactionary and are full blown fascistsIs the only difference scale, media attention or how white you feel it is? Obama did the same things, sat on top of the same system, bombed and coup several countries so why doesn't he get called fascist? Honestly feels like skin color is all you care about and you would ignore everything if Kamala was prez. Idpol behavior.
>>2574780> I think Americans got a very twister and nonsensical view about race, it really feels like a mass identity crisis.jesse what the fuck are you talking about? "mass identity crisis" motherfucker you just implied that the only americans are white lmao.
>>2574780> I guess a better example would be the white people that support the black Israelitesyeah i know what you mean. that's clownish. when people say "black racists" I have to interrogate further to find out if they mean cults like the BHI or if they're one of those hysterical people who think the black panthers were some kind of black mirror to the KKK (that used to be more common of a thing I heard people say, but not anymore)
>>2574797don't catch you slippin now
>>2574667This still isn't class analysis. It's clear to me that the imperial core outsources too much of its productive labor and the principle contradiction is not between the workers and their exploitation by the capitalists. So what is the principle contradiction? Unproductive labor is a form of circulation and IMO is largely a matter of finance capital and the commodification of the human body. I think it has something to do with unemployment, migrant labor, incarceration and disability but I still haven't really figured it out.
>national guardsmen get shot
>just after the courts ruled the national guard occupation of DC was illegal
Oh god oh fuck I'm gonna NOOOOOOOOOOOOOTICE
>>2574796I can't figure out what they're chanting in the background
>>2574825JDPON mediterranean sea
>>2574825This is funny but the billionaire team has been dominating the ocean for a few decades. If anything this is a comeback
>>2574847remember the titan sub
>>2574771You are a red fascist and therefore a subhuman. You and everyone who thinks like you must be shot.
>>2574778Your imperialist interests clouds your mind. In america, even spontaneous worker uprisings havent happened in 104 years because imperialism
>>2574854why is he naked?
My guess is that the shooter is some kind of rightoid and the media knows it which is why they're being real quiet about the status of the shooter. If they thought he was some transsexual leftist puppygirl the news cycle would be completely filled with speculation as to the motives based on random Deviantart posts from 10 years ago
>>2574898amerikkkans can't even afford clothes in Trump's economy
>>2574809And to think that was progressive for the time lmao.
>>2574763As AI replaces more jobs, the men in charge will actively fire other men and only keep young subservient women around instead.
Sorry prole bros, but Mr. CEO will have his harem.
>>2574917
anotha crakkka down
>>2574763I want fat fucking gazongas in my hands not on my screen
>In a social media post, Patrick Morrisey, the West Virginia governor, who had earlier said that both of members of the West Virginia National Guard had died in the shooting in Washington, said his office was receiving “conflicting reports about the condition of our two Guard members.”
>The governor said his office would “provide additional updates once we receive more complete information.”
incompetency at all levels
>>2574952all of the above!
>>2574952Trick question: it's all of these above
>>2574854Doctors about to pull over 39 bullets out of his fat that just couldn't penetrate
>>2574779Man I don’t even think that’d be possible with the speed at which he comes up with insane death threats.
I mean, feel free to call him me in disguise if you want—I’m sure that’d annoy the shit out of him and be pretty funny. But it still surprises me the lengths people will go to in order to pretend that there aren’t the occasional Felix’s in the Left.
>>2574973
Factory status?
>>2574973
If this site is full of "dangerous reactionaries" who "ban actual Marxist-Leninists" why do you post here? Why do you ban evade again and again to post in a place where you hate everyone and everyone hates you?
>>2574973
>Like proving a baby wrong
>Proceeds to convince no one
>>2574991His bipolar cycles back to mania and so he can't stop himself
>>2574973
You'd have a better case if you didn't act like you were on multiple substances 24 7
>>2574998
That's genuinely pathetic and I hope you get the help you need
>>2574996his screenshots were of a IBEW local union declaring their opposition to communism
>>2575008Who gives a shit?
>>2575010Heartbreaking, the worst person you know…
>>2575009
Then you should probably try mood stablizers
>>2575011i was just telling you what he was trying to convince you with because it wasn't that obvious imo unless you clicked on them
>>2575020beef>chicken>turkey>ham>literal shit>chipotle
>>2575018> mood stablizerssorry babe, that's a treat. and my man is treat free
abolish thanksgiving.
false flag to justify martial law/????
>>2575050nah, just more years of lard
>>2575018I wonder if felix is a lysenkoist who rejects western capitalist imperialist science like "medicine" and "psychiatry"
>>2575053can americans even afford lard at this point?
>>2575062who needs the days of humiliation when we are living the american century of humiliation?
>>2574976Much as I think fedlix is a psycho you could do with some self crit towards American chauvinism ngl
>>2575073I just don't see the american chauvinism that people accuse him of, man. What do you people even mean by that?
>>2575010I feel bad for uyghas who have grandmas and aunts that can't cook turkey right.
THOTS
AND
PRAYERS
>>2575080you don't even need a grandma or an aunt, people can easily learn how with youtube but they still follow "low and slow" dogma and come out with a dry bird. smh
We're going to make AGIogenesis real.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/11/launching-the-genesis-mission/>This order launches the “Genesis Mission” as a dedicated, coordinated national effort to unleash a new age of AI‑accelerated innovation and discovery that can solve the most challenging problems of this century. The Genesis Mission will build an integrated AI platform to harness Federal scientific datasets — the world’s largest collection of such datasets, developed over decades of Federal investments — to train scientific foundation models and create AI agents to test new hypotheses, automate research workflows, and accelerate scientific breakthroughs. The Genesis Mission will bring together our Nation’s research and development resources — combining the efforts of brilliant American scientists, including those at our national laboratories, with pioneering American businesses; world-renowned universities; and existing research infrastructure, data repositories, production plants, and national security sites — to achieve dramatic acceleration in AI development and utilization. We will harness for the benefit of our Nation the revolution underway in computing, and build on decades of innovation in semiconductors and high-performance computing. The Genesis Mission will dramatically accelerate scientific discovery, strengthen national security, secure energy dominance, enhance workforce productivity, and multiply the return on taxpayer investment into research and development, thereby furthering America’s technological dominance and global strategic leadership.>>2575083cooking poultry of any kind is VERY simple: use a thermometer.
Once it's 165 degrees, it's perfect. Take it out. Enjoy.
When you do that, everyone will ride your dick for days. "Omg I never knew turkey could be juicy! Wow!" like yeah because I didn't overcook it. It really is that simple.
burn the shit out of everything. avoid salmonella
>>2575089salmonella dies at 165. that's why it's perfect.
>>2575079the issues raised by felix in
>>2574973 happened and they were pretty cringe when they happened, along with a couple other cases of being too soft on nationalist types that used to come up when it was actual discussions and not just one guy screeching for hours.
>>2575088
he doesn't argue that, you're just retarded. Anti-imperialism is happening naturally without the need for "revolutionary" communists in the west. Imperialism is self-defeating. Advancing the means of production and continuing global trade is the only way forward, and is also the only thing breaking imperialism down. It dies on its own, and this is very VERY evident in the multipolar world we currently live in, right now. You simultaneously oversimplify and overcomplicate everything because you're obsessed with moralizing and also just blatantly mentally ill.
>>2574854doing a mass shooting in the nude is pretty smart. during cross examination you can discredit all the witnesses and swat as gay for looking.
>>2575087nah hear me out, you start off with 500 fahrenheit for a half hour (with the thermometer inside), it won't hit 165 internal that fast. after half an hour you got the skin nice and brown, put the foil on top after half an hour, put it back in on 350, then take it out when the internal temp is 165. it will be moist on the inside but crispy on the outside, like a deli rotisserie chicken.
>>2575101just eat vegetarian dinners
>>2575105i eat that way except on holidays. that is my code. don't question it
>>2574973>By the way, since you all seem to think there is no labor aristocracy in America, let me prove you all wrong yet again. It's pretty simple to do this, it's like proving a baby wrong. >There is a massive labor aristocracy in America and it operates our unions.That's not what anyone was arguing against. Not one single person argued against that point. We've only argued against this stupid Maoist-Third-Worldist rhetoric, which even if correct, means that America is a lost cause and there is nothing we can do here. So what the fuck compels them to spread this message here all the time if nothing good is possible?
>>2574685>There is no general consensus on part of Maoist–Third Worldists as a whole. However, the majority of proponents typically argue for the centrality of anti-imperialism to the victory of global communist revolution as well as against the idea that the working class in the First World is majority-exploited (sometimes arguing that it experiences no exploitation at all) and therefore it is not a part of the international proletariat, but rather labor aristocracy.
>Maoism–Third Worldism is theoretically defined by a variety of political principles which emphasize the enormous economic, social and political divisions which exist currently between the "overdeveloped" First World and "underdeveloped" Third World. This is expressed through the lens of Maoist theory and practice - brought into a new, international understanding of imperialism and class - in the context of the world divided into two distinct camps; the exploited countries (the Third World) and their exploiters (the First World). >>2575094>vague recollections just trust me dudeCan you just fucking relax please. No one here is an american chauvinist. No one thinks america is superior in some intrinsic way or whatever. You're boxing ghosts dude.
The problem you guys have with cpusanon all stem from the fact that you think doing normal politics with final goal in mind of a classless stateless society, actually doing normal things in the real world, you think that stuff is cringe and not based enough or whatever the fuck.
The only thing people like him and I are saying is that maybe we should focus on what's directly in front of us as americans instead of losing our shit and trying to force a revolution or whatever childish concepts le epic based leftists claim, as well as the sakaist losers that no one likes. What we're trying to do is get you guys to be fucking normal for once so that you can
actually go out into the world, in the
real world and not scare the hoes.
>>2575117All I said was "maybe some self crit would be justified" not that he needs to be fucking pilloried or called a strasserite
I've said stupid things on here and admitted i've been dumb before
>>2575073In my defense I’d like to think my views on America are nuanced, but when there’s a huge portion of the board chanting Total Burger Death I refrain from most critiques to avoid giving them ammo.
>>2575126I'm not even asking you to post it where people can see, just go over it a bit. It had kind of bothered me in the past but I didn't want to bring it up till everyone had agreed to ignore fedlix.
>>2575128
You are literally making shit up, dude. That's not fucking true like AT ALL. A complete a total fucking lie, and you expect us to listen to you? Please take some fucking meds man PLEASE it sucks so hard when you're around dude. It's not fun. It really isn't.
>>2575117>No one here is an american chauvinist.yeah right
>>2575126dude, the only time you ever addressed me it was spouting ignorant 19th century racsim against abboriginals.
>>2575099>doing a mass shooting in the nude is pretty smart. during cross examination you can discredit all the witnesses and swat as gay for looking.Nice. Ever considered going in to law? The movement could use people like you, you know.
>>2575145Not sure what you’re talking about beyond the time I brought up some Engels quote about “people without history” mostly to show he wasn’t doing the self-flagellating shit you see from third worldists on here.
>>2575136I mean the bit about being soft on nationalists I can kind of get as a critique—though to be fair I would like to present an alternative worldview rather than tear down existing ones
>>2575086this is the bailout they were demanding
>>2575154You're so soft on nationalists that you are a nationalist yourself.
>>2575126>Total Burger DeathThis is just out-griup nationalism. You veer to in-group nationalism so it pissem thirdworlists off. I'm tired of nations tho.
>>2574973
>it's dangerous Strasserite maniacs
<t. ᴉuᴉlossnW incarnate
>>2575138I wish I was making things up, but alas CPUSAnon is that reactionary.
>>2574632Only real division is language. That's why nationalists cling to it when every spook they believe fails to convince.
>>2575175>>2575172>>>2575138>I wish I was making things up, but alas CPUSAnon is that reactionary>>2575128>CPUSAnon is an American chauvanist who openly doesn't care about what happens to the rest of the world so long as he has more treats and games to play.
>Sympathizing with a bunch of thugs who beat anti-war protesters to such an extent that you invent a scenario in your head so you can justify what they did is not "being normal" and "not scaring the hoes" but rather is being reactionary.>>2575145>dude, the only time you ever addressed me it was spouting ignorant 19th century racsim against abboriginals.Could you guys give more specifics. When did these posts even occur? Inb4 5 years ago.
how you holdin up cpusanon? they keep shootin ur boys. :(
for years grifters have been presenting the DSA as THE nucleus of the future communist party, but when zohran gets into the club and starts chumming up with the president, we have a pile of average dsa libs come out of the woodwork arguing against all of these jackasses
>>2575178the hard hat riot sympathies was like 8 months ago or so, i do actually remember that one. It might be in the archive .txt
>>2575178>>2575184Oh the "fantasize about beating up anti-war protesters" thing is especially funny. So essentially I wrote a post talking about how there was a generational divide between Boomers and older generations that kind of played itself out in some labor struggles, with both bosses and union leaders being able to portray the boomers as basically "hippies who don't want to work" because they'd make weird demands like "The Right to Play" and invite their favorite bands to the picket line. I then said that I can see how someone born with a completely different set of values would be alienated from anti-war protesters because they'd look alien to them.
Felix then proceeded to screech that meant I was saying I support the hard hat rioters beating anti-war protesters (I don't) and then started posting using my name and flag making up insane shit like "Golly gee, I hope Batman and Dirty Harry beat those fucking protesters, I sure wish I could've smashed a hippies head in."
Around that point I started using a tripcode because this was yet another time where Felix or some other weirdo on this site started posting under my name to say some outrageous fascist stuff to use as "proof" later.
>>2575186bro you don't need to be a time traveller to known that the namefags on vietnamese water puppet forums are objectively the worst posters.
>>2575189That wasn't all of it but I don't really care to go digging up months old posts to make a point i already made.
>>2575191I wasn't asking why you don't like him, I'm asking why you have such dedication to this crusade against hi. like you are desperately trying to thwart his rise to power.
>I MUST WARN THE POSTERS OF THE DANGERS OF CPUSA ANON! DOM'T LISTEN TO HIM YOU FOOLS! HE IS LEADING YPU INTO THE JAWS OF FASCISM! >>2575189really silly of them to do that. you post fascist stuff all on your own all the time!
>>2575126You still dont get it, boy. There is no nuance in battle against imperialism. To say imperialism is nuanced is revisionism. Lenin said those who are afraid of scientifically explaining to imperialists the fact that Communism will make their lives materially worse cannot be in Party.
>>2575192Man I don't say this to be a dick but genuinely all I remember posting on the topic of the hard hat riots was to make the case that the generational divide of the time played a role in alienating one segment of the working class from the other. I never said "the rioters got what was coming to them", I never said "boy I wish I could've beat them", I never said that the war in Vietnam was justified. Literally the extent of my memory of it is just "yeah they alienated themselves from a broader swath of the culture and I can understand how some old union dude would find a guy calling himself 'speckled starchild' annoying."
>>2575196>To say imperialism is nuanced is revisionismMarx loved America by the way
>Communism will make their lives materially worse cannot be in PartyExplain now
>>2575199These revisionist snakes have been fighting against lenin this whole time
<To tell the workers in the handful of rich countries where life is easier, thanks to imperialist pillage, that they must be afraid of 'too great' impoverishment, is counter-revolutionary. It is the reverse that they should be told. The labour aristocracy that is afraid of sacrifices, afraid of 'too great' impoverishment during the revolutionary struggle, cannot belong to the Party. Otherwise, the dictatorship is impossible, especially in West-European countries.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x03.htm >>2575193yeah but everyone hates them and is anon: you're perceiving widespread antipathy as a vendetta. I find it particularly obnoxious that they're lightning rods for meta commentary and drama.
they're attention starved AFK and not particularly erudite or thoughtful posters. it's not that deep.
>>2575198I'm not asking you to justify anything you said earlier, or deny it, literally my only point was "gee you made some things that were more nationalist-accepting than i was comfortable with please think about that in the future"
>>2575201So uhhh, did Lenins theory ever work in one of those rich countries he was talking about?
>>2575201that isn't even what that quote says you mongrel
ok enough. i order you all to shut the fuck up and stop engaging with tripfags. NOW.
>>2575203>>2575203>. I find it particularly obnoxious that they're lightning rods for meta commentary and drama.And that's all you. You guys make every thread about him and now you're bringing up posts he made 8 months ago and shit.
>>2575199Basically TWists like to talk up how Communism will "destroy America's standard of living" as a post-hoc justification for why Americans are all willing imperialist labor-aristocrats and then respond to anyone saying "maybe don't go around screaming that you're gonna make people's lives worse" that they're secret fascist collaborators. There was a TWist on here ages ago that said America wouldn't even have electricity as a consequence of being non-imperialist. Like they literally want us to go back to the stone age.
>>2575201You're literally misrepresenting the quote, Lenin says:
<To tell the workers in the handful of rich countries where life is easier, thanks to imperialist pillage, that they must be afraid of 'too great' impoverishment, is counter-revolutionary.He's warning against the type of moderates that say "Revolution is TOO HARD and would be TOO COSTLY so let's just reform!" You're mangling the quote to claim he's saying
>"Tell the workers that we'll make them suffer the most sacrifices and be impoverished!">>2575204Right on, well man I apologize for making you uncomfortable and I'll try to work on it then.
>>2575201Another paragrah I found just skimming the same text puts that in context easily.
<e. A revolution, as he sees it, can be made only if it does not worsen the workers’ conditions “too much”. Is it permissible, in a Communist Party, to speak in a tone like this, I ask? This is the language of counter-revolution. The standard of living in Russia is undoubtedly lower than in Germany, and when we established the dictatorship, this led to the workers beginning to go more hungry and to their conditions becoming even worse. The workers’ victory cannot be achieved without sacrifices, without a temporary deterioration of their conditions. We must tell the workers the very opposite of what Crispien has said. If, in desiring to prepare the workers for the dictatorship, one tells them that their conditions will not be worsened “too much”, one is losing sight of the main thing, namely, that it was by helping their “own” bourgeoisie to conquer and strangle the whole world by imperialist methods, with the aim of thereby ensuring better pay for themselves, that the labour aristocracy developed. If the German workers now want to work for the revolution they must make sacrifices, and not be afraid to do so. You're an anticommunist scumbag
>>2574749everyone needs a hobby
>>2575201>Comrade Bordiga has admitted that historical experience is not created artificially. He has just told us that the struggle must be carried into another sphere. Is he not aware that every revolutionary crisis has been attended by a parliamentary crisis? True, he has said that the struggle must be carried into another sphere, into the Soviets. Bordiga, however, has himself admitted that Soviets cannot be created artificially. The example of Russia shows that Soviets can be organised either during a revolution or on the eve of a revolution. Even in the Kerensky period, the Soviets (which were Menshevik Soviets) were organised in such a way that they could not possibly constitute a proletarian government. Parliament is a product of historical development, and we cannot eliminate it until we are strong enough to disperse the bourgeois parliament. It is only as a member of the bourgeois parliament that one can, in the given historical conditions, wage a struggle against bourgeois society and parliamentarianism. The same weapon as the bourgeoisie employs in the struggle must also be used by the proletariat, of course, with entirely different aims. You cannot assert that that is not the case, and if you want to challenge it, you will have thereby to erase the experience of all revolutionary developments in the world.
>Comrade Souchy, a revolutionary syndicalist, advocated the same theory, but he had no logic on his side. He said that he was not a Marxist, so everything can be readily understood. But you, Comrade Bordiga, assert that you are a Marxist, so we must expect more logic from you. You must know how parliament can be smashed. If you can do it by an armed uprising in all countries, well and good. You are aware that we in Russia proved our determination to destroy the bourgeois parliament, not only in theory, but in practice as well. You, however, have lost sight of the fact that this is impossible without fairly long preparations, and that in most countries it is as yet impossible to destroy parliament at one stroke. We are obliged to carry on a struggle within parliament for the destruction of parliament. For the conditions determining the political line of all classes in modern society you substitute your revolutionary determination; that is why you forget that to destroy the bourgeois parliament in Russia we were first obliged to convene the Constituent Assembly, even after our victory. You say: “It is a fact that the Russian revolution is a case that is not in accord with conditions in Western Europe”, but you have not produced a single weighty argument to prove that to us. We went through a period of bourgeois democracy. We went through it rapidly at a time when we had to agitate for elections to the Constituent Assembly. Later, when the working class was able to seize power, the peasants still believed in the necessity of a bourgeois parliament. Interesting stuff
>>2575236>If you say: “Fellow workers, we are so weak that we cannot form a party disciplined enough to compel its members of parliament to submit to it”, the workers would abandon you, for they would ask themselves: “How can we set up a dictatorship of the proletariat with such weaklings?”
>You are very naïve if you think that the intelligentsia, the middle class, and the petty bourgeoisie will turn Communist the day the proletariat is victorious.
>If you do not harbour this illusion, you should begin right away to prepare the proletariat to pursue its own line. You will find no exceptions to this rule in any branch of state affairs. On the day following the revolution, you will everywhere find advocates of opportunism who call themselves-Communists, i.e., petty bourgeois who refuse to recognise the discipline of the Communist Party or of the proletarian state. Unless you prepare the workers for the creation of a really disciplined party, which will compel its members to submit to its discipline, you will never prepare for the dictatorship of the proletariat. I think that this accounts for your unwillingness to admit that the repudiation of parliamentary action by a great many of the new Communist parties stems from their weakness. I am convinced that the vast majority of the really revolutionary workers will follow us and speak up against your anti-parliamentary theses. >>2575201>In a private talk, Comrade Pankhurst said to me: “If we are real revolutionaries and join the Labour Party, these gentlemen will expel us.” But that would not be bad at all. Our resolution says that we favour affiliation insofar as the Labour Party permits sufficient freedom of criticism. On that point we are absolutely consistent. Comrade McLaine has emphasised that the conditions now prevailing in Britain are such that, should it so desire, a political party may remain a revolutionary workers’ party even if it is connected with a special kind of labour organisation of four million members, which is half trade union and half political and is headed by bourgeois leaders. In such circumstances it would be highly erroneous for the best revolutionary elements not to do everything possible to remain in such a party. Let the Thomases and other social-traitors, whom you have called by that name, expel you. That will have an excellent effect upon the mass of the British workers. Isn't this entryism? Also wouldn't this apply to the Democrat party? You are free to talk shit about the party leadership. I think it is very hard to get expelled from a party in the USA.
>>2574698>anyone to the left of me who makes me uncomfortablethat doesn't lend your argument any credibility and neither tankie nor third-worldist was used towards particularily intelligent, well-read or effective sections of the socialist left even by morons. tankie and third-worldist are both perfectly fine descriptors for groups of people who display the respective attitudes of uncritical jingoism towards "aes" and of billions must die tier vitriol against millions of proles in the first world because you expect them to brandish arms against the state over imperialism and begin ppw. if you take either position you might as well just stop calling yourself a marxist and embrace the fact that you're a radical liberal who dislikes whichever country they came from and wants to make a radical subculture around that fact
>>2575245The difference is whether you're trying to "turn the democrats left", or if you're going to join to trash talk them for supporting capital against their own voters and then getting kicked out
imagine mamdani, after having gotten elected, continued to say
more radical things, which get approval numbers up, and
then getting kicked out.
>>2575253I'm researching it, and they can only kick you out caucus by caucus. But in a lot of states, they can't even stop you from running in the primary and from becoming the party nominee apparently lol.
Parties in America aren't even real parties so much as in like other countries.
https://www.texastribune.org/2025/10/10/texas-republican-party-censures-primary-ballot-court-precedent/>State Sen. Thomas B. Love had declared his intention to run for governor as a Democrat, just months after he campaigned for Republican presidential nominee Herbert Hoover. For this unacceptable breach of party loyalty, the State Democratic Executive Committee wanted him off the primary ballot.
>But they could do no such thing, the Texas Supreme Court said, ruling that Texas’ election laws “jealously guard the voters’ power” by compelling state political parties to place otherwise qualified candidates on the ballot, regardless of their adherence to party rules or loyalty tests. The state’s high court has repeatedly upheld this ruling, remarking in 1958 with some frustration that “no other holding would comport with sound public policy.” >American workers, you should stop doing forever war and attack your ruling class because it will make your lives BETTER
<American workers, you should stop doing forever war and attack your ruling class because it will make your lives WORSE
Which of the two above arguments will convince American workers better?
>American workers, imperialism benefits you, you have more in common with your ruling class than the workers of other countries, do not unite and fight us, instead collaborate with us!
<American workers, imperialism benefits you, you have more in common with your ruling class than the workers of other countries, you will not unite and fight your ruling class, instead you are destined to collaborate with them!
What is the difference between the two above arguments?
>>2575258hence why dems had superdelegates for bernie
in any case, lenin's point is that you should be
exposing the bourgeois parties and drawing away their power, not that you should be trying to take over their party
>>2575262what if i'm not trying to convince USA workers? i'm about pointing out the objective truth. USA workers will not attack their ruling class in a way that undermines their global hegemony because that would negatively impact them (no treats). and therefore the USA "workers" cannot be counted on for anything and USA leftist politics are fundamentally limited. the question is given those undeniable facts of reality that simply are, what should the rest of the world do?
>>2575266didn't answer the second question award
>>2575266So you don't believe in fighting with the proletariat and instead believe there are oppressed and oppressor nations. It's that simple
>>2575213After re-reading this whole bit very carefully it's very obvious that Lenin is not saying that Communism will make the lives of people in imperialist countries worse.
Lenin is
very specifically saying that revolution is going to suck, so you need to tell people to be brave and brace for impact.
>>2575266then you're an explicit nationalist.
>>2574921 I too want family with big tidddy white woman and have kids with reverse vitiligo
>>2575268
aka another chechan implant the CIA sent to get the rightoids pissed about brown ppl
>>2575264>in any case, lenin's point is that you should be exposing the bourgeois parties and drawing away their power, not that you should be trying to take over their partyAnd how is he advocating for exposing them? You have to become affiliated with the existing parties and to push your program. He says that abstaining from parliament/congress will get us nowhere.
>It has been claimed here that it is a waste of time to participate in the parliamentary struggle. Can one conceive of any other institution in which all classes are as interested as they are in parliament? This cannot be created artificially. If all classes are drawn into the parliamentary struggle, it is because the class interests and conaicts are reflected in parliament. >>2575271>Lenin is very specifically saying that revolution is going to suck, so you need to tell people to be brave and brace for impact. truke
>>2575271>Lenin is very specifically saying that revolution is going to suck, so you need to tell people to be brave and brace for impact. Yeah I thought that was pretty obvious.
>>2575277
Boston wasn't an accident vro.
>>2575287this is why i bought drx3 bear inverse stocks
>>2575287https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TECS/but yeah is it time to gamble this stock. I know holding inverse stocks are not a good idea but looking at how things are going to pop soon
>>2575271in fact he's very specifically trying to tell the German workers "hey, it's gonna suck, but whatever you have to lose was stolen in the first place", but he still thinks they should do it.
Where does he argue that we need to be self-sacrificing indefinitely for the sake of unburdening imperialism elsewhere? He's directly addressing the communist parties of imperialist nations here. Given that Lenin tends to expound on things until he feels that his logic has been thoroughly laid out, surely "you need to end imperialism at permanent cost to your own wellbeing" would have come up like, at least once here?
Almost the entire argument that "this means the entire first world will suffer!" hinges on using the word "Labor Aristocracy" as being
the entire population of the first world, which is a definition that literally only happened
after Lenin died, after the bourgeois social democratic welfare state had materialized post-WWII.
Literally reading a 1960's formulated definition into a document from 1920, when it is
significantly different from the definitions given in the 1920's is practically lying. Incredible you call others revisionist snakes then pull this shit.
>>2575302
zamn. they're gonna use this to go sicko mode (martial law)
>>2575296
Huh, it's not everyday you get to see imperial boomerangs collide.
>>2575293White meat is a meme.
>>2575302
>Operation Allies Welcome
US occupation collaborator? Is he angry about being abandoned then?
>>2575316he's a super freaky guy
>>2575324oh god just wait till leftypol finds out about the nuzzi drama
>>2575293I like that he accentuated Gavin's butt cheek
>>2575293who's the drunk to the right of bernie
>>2575366
who SHAT in the lincoln memorial pool???? obama???
>>2575293I truly dont understand the Obama caption. But Biden telling Gavin "Yo hairdo" is pretty great actually
>>2575366
its actually because doge fired everyone maintaining it
>>2575212You are twisting Lenin Thought to be amenable to imperialist reformist thought. This is why you are revisionist. Lenin says that every imperialist labor aristocrats must be willing to make unprecedented sacrifices to be in Party
>>2575205The imperialists never follow Lenin's Plan
>>2575213Revisionism has corroded your mind. Lenin described the historical role of russians workers. The past century has demonstrated the historical role of the imperialists.
>>2575271Even now you say, "Communism will not make imperialists lives worse." This is revisionism. You keep re-stating lenin and then defying him. Imperialists must make greatest sacrifices, which is why you revisionists deny or minimize scope of this material law.
>>2575229The revisionists dont even run for congress anymore, so this is irrelevant. In testament to their true nature, they just dick ride fascists
>>2575245No. He was saying Communists should loudly expose and wreck the bourgeois parties
>Comrade Gallacher has said ironically that in the present instance we are under the influence of the British Socialist Party. That is not true; it is the experience of all revolutions in all countries that has convinced us. We think that we must say that to the masses. The British Communist Party must retain the freedom necessary to expose and criticise the betrayers of the working class, who are much more powerful in Britain than in any other country. That is readily understandable. >>2575297>>2575287>>2575295can you guys offer any advice on buying short stocks?
i've never bought short before but i've got a fair bit of money i'm ready to drop on it.
>>2575252He literally begged people in UK to go pledge their votes to Labour because it would "show how bad they are."
>>2575392>Lenin says that every imperialist labor aristocrats must be willing to make unprecedented sacrifices to be in Party And also describes the "labor aristocrats" when he describes them as the "thin stratum" of labor leaders and the like.
>Even now you say, "Communism will not make imperialists lives worse." This is revisionismGenuinely find me where Lenin argues this because I still haven't found it. I've been going through Imperialism THSOC a second time and I still haven't found this. And Marx goes into buy-offs for part of the working class but nothing quite on the level of arguing that there are oppressor and oppressed nations
>>2575412nobody comments on the marx quote about crude communism despite it being dropped ITT and previous one
>>2575246>>2575268>>2575273>>2575277>>2575281why do I have the feeling that the guy wants to be arrested in a US prison just to not get deported to Afghanistan?
>>2575158by the way, the USS geral ford returns to its US base.
>>2574995It's a tale as old as time. Trillionaires will have bigger harems than King Solomon and Ramesses II combined while prole cucks will sit at home cheering on their woman's "career" lol
>BREAKING: Rahmanullah Lakanwal served alongside US SPECIAL FORCES in the Afghanistan Army for 10 years (TEN YEARS!!!!) AGAINST the Taliban.
>A relative who also served with him and U.S. troops says they do not know why this happened. Lakanwal has a wife and five children. – NBC News.>>2575420 (me)
yup, called it.
>>2575428that's cute. gotta keep optimistic in the face of doom i suppose
Uh…
CPUSAnon? I barely know her!
>>2575436Sure, but if Lenin says "labor aristocracy" i'm going to assume he means the things he says about "labor aristocracy" in other parts of his works.
If you're gonna accuse all of the west of being "labor aristocracy" then fine, make the accusation, but don't try to slap Lenin's name on it.
>>2575440private military company?
>>2575440pocket mini computers?
>>2575441Newfriend detected.
professional managerial class The professional part seems redundant. I never heard of an amateur manager.
>The Ehrenreichs defined the PMC as educated professionals who historically did not work in corporate environments, such as doctors, scientists, lawyers, academics, artists, and journalists.[6] In a 2013 follow-up, they estimated that in the 1930s, PMC occupations made up less than 1% of total U.S. employment, but the share had risen to 24% by 1972, and 35% by 2006.[7] In that same essay, they argued that the notion of the PMC as a collective grouping was "in ruins" due to economic shifts in the 1990s and 2000s which changed their professional prospects. Some members (such as highly qualified scientists) "jump[ed] ship for more lucrative posts in direct services to capital"; others (such as lawyers, tenured professors, and doctors) found themselves in increasingly "corporation-like" workplaces; while others still (like those with backgrounds in media or the humanities) "spiral[ed] down to the retail workforce", unable to parlay their skills into higher-income jobs.[7]
>>2575440>>2575445Wonder what the new made up scapegoat will be? Something to do with AI wrangling like "Professional Prompter Class (PPC). We'll get liberals and conservative wringing their hands over how influential they are over culture while third worldists will accuse everyone in America of being selfish PPC who could turn off all the computers if only they didn't want treats (healthcare/shelter/food).
>>2574694Depends on the state. Diversity in Mississippi is different than diversity in NYC.
>>2575446Maybe I should consider law
>>2575453Next year it'll be some other issue of the week, while the people who actually read large amounts of book keep pointing out that it's the same stupid complaints in different format, and beingaccused of various things for doing so.
>>2575452There was an American ex communist named James Burnham in the 1940s who wrote a book called The Managerial Revolution where he predicted that the people who we now call PMCs would lead us out of capitalism, instead of the bourgeoisie or proletariat. Someone on here told me that George Orwell's 1984 wasn't merely an allegory for what Orwell imagined Stalin's USSR to be like, but an attack on James Burnham's ideas as well.
>>2575462i never read 1984 but IIRC there were a few people pointing out that 90% of the insane bullshit in it was PMC types fucking with each other while all the working class schlubs just carried on without really caring about what the party PMC types were doing
>>2575464yeah, that's correct. the drama centers entirely around "outer party" and "inner party" members. had to read it in high school.
honestly the more i read about PMC, labor aristo, intelligensia, etc whatever bullshit the more i realize how little is actually said despite how much the western left, in particular the "online" left, is utterly fucking fetish-tier fascinated with this element of analysis.
"A section of the workers are…capitalist supporters! because they're…bought off!" over and over and over in so many different ways. Like that's it. That's the entire theoretical grounding of so much argument. The rest of it is trying to turn a dial to see what percentage of the population that is, and using sheep entrails and statistics cooking to get whatever answer you want.
>>2575462I'm not sure it was me but I think Orwell was definitely writing about Burnham in 1984. Burnham apparently saw both Nazi Germany and the USSR as converging towards a similar type of "managerial" state, but he liked to make predictions about the future that were just flat out wrong. He predicted (correctly) that Hitler would attack the USSR, but not until after England was defeated, and then when war between the USSR and Nazi did occur, he predicted the USSR would lose – WRONG! So Burnham then flipped to admiring Stalin and predicting he would take over Europe and form an alliance with Japan (!). But basically what Burnham was doing was admiring whatever power was winning in the moment and basing his predictions off that.
Orwell wrote at least one essay about Burnham as well. Orwell thought Stalinism appealed to middling people in England (intellectuals, broadcasters, pic unrelated) because they felt cramped by the English class system but could see themselves in the leadership of a party bureaucracy. Here's Orwell, take it or leave it.
>It will be seen that at each point Burnham is predicting a continuation of the thing that is happening. Now the tendency to do this is not simply a bad habit, like inaccuracy or exaggeration, which one can correct by taking thought. It is a major mental disease, and its roots lie partly in cowardice and partly in the worship or power, which is not fully separable from cowardice.
>Suppose in 1940 you had taken a Gallup poll, in England, on the question ‘Will Germany win the war?’ You would have found, curiously enough, that the group answering ‘Yes’ contained a far higher percentage of intelligent people – people with autism score of over 120, shall we say – than the group answering ‘No’. The same would have held good in the middle of 1942. In this case the figures would not have been so striking, but if you had made the question ‘Will the Germans capture Alexandria?’ or ‘Will the Japanese be able to hold on to the territories they have captured?’, then once again there would have been a very marked tendency for intelligence to concentrate in the ‘Yes’ group. In every case the less-gifted person would have been likelier to give a right answer.
>If one went simply by these instances, one might assume that high intelligence and bad military judgement always go together. However, it is not so simple as that. The English intelligentsia, on the whole, were more defeatist than the mass of the people – and some of them went on being defeatist at a time when the war was quite plainly won – partly because they were better able to visualize the dreary years of warfare that lay ahead. Their morale was worse because their imaginations were stronger. The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory. But there was more to it than that. There was also the disaffection of large numbers of intellectuals, which made it difficult for them not to side with any country hostile to Britain. And deepest of all, there was admiration – though only in a very few cases conscious admiration – for the power, energy and cruelty of the Nazi régime. It would be a useful though tedious labour to go through the left-wing press and enumerate all the hostile references to Nazism during the years 1935–45. One would find, I have little doubt, that they reached their high-water mark in 1937–38 and 1944–45, and dropped off noticeably in the years 1939–42 – that is, during the period when Germany seemed to be winning. One would find, also, the same people advocating a compromise peace in 1940 and approving the dismemberment of Germany in 1945. And if one studied the reactions of the English intelligentsia towards the U.S.S.R., there, too, one would find genuinely progressive impulses mixed up with admiration for power and cruelty. It would be grossly unfair to suggest that power worship is the only motive for russophile feeling, but it is one motive, and among intellectuals it is probably the strongest one.
>Power worship blurs political judgement because it leads, almost unavoidably, to the belief that present trends will continue. Whoever is winning at the moment will always seem to be invincible. If the Japanese have conquered south Asia, then they will keep south Asia for ever, if the Germans have captured Tobruk, they will infallibly capture Cairo; if the Russians are in Berlin, it will not be long before they are in London: and so on. This habit of mind leads also to the belief that things will happen more quickly, completely, and catastrophically than they ever do in practice. The rise and fall of empires, the disappearance of cultures and religions, are expected to happen with earthquake suddenness, and processes which have barely started are talked about as though they were already at an end. Burnham’s writings are full of apocalyptic visions. Nations, governments, classes and social systems are constantly described as expanding, contracting, decaying, dissolving, toppling, crashing, crumbling, crystallizing, and, in general, behaving in an unstable and melodramatic way. The slowness of historical change, the fact that any epoch always contains a great deal of the last epoch, is never sufficiently allowed for. Such a manner of thinking is bound to lead to mistaken prophecies, because, even when it gauges the direction of events rightly, it will miscalculate their tempo. Within the space of five years Burnham foretold the domination of Russia by Germany and of Germany by Russia. In each case he was obeying the same instinct: the instinct to bow down before the conqueror of the moment, to accept the existing trend as irreversible. With this in mind one can criticize his theory in a broader way.
>The mistakes I have pointed out do not disprove Burnham’s theory, but they do cast light on his probable reasons for holding it. In this connexion one cannot leave out of account the fact that Burnham is an American. Every political theory has a certain regional tinge about it, and every nation, every culture, has its own characteristic prejudices and patches of ignorance. There are certain problems that must almost inevitably be seen in a different perspective according to the geographical situation from which one is looking at them. Now, the attitude that Burnham adopts, of classifying Communism and Fascism as much the same thing, and at the same time accepting both of them – or, at any rate, not assuming that either must be violently struggled against – is essentially an American attitude, and would be almost impossible for an Englishman or any other western European. English writers who consider Communism and Fascism to be the same thing invariably hold that both are monstrous evils which must be fought to the death: on the other hand, any Englishman who believes Communism and Fascism to be opposites will feel that he ought to side with one or the other.[3] The reason for this difference of outlook is simple enough and, as usual, is bound up with wish-thinking. If totalitarianism triumphs and the dreams of the geopoliticians come true, Britain will disappear as a world power and the whole of western Europe will be swallowed by some single great state. This is not a prospect that it is easy for an Englishman to contemplate with detachment. Either he does not want Britain to disappear – in which case he will tend to construct theories proving the thing that he wants – or, like a minority of intellectuals, he will decide that his country is finished and transfer his allegiance to some foreign power. An American does not have to make the same choice. Whatever happens, the United States will survive as a great power, and from the American point of view it does not make much difference whether Europe is dominated by Russia or by Germany. Most Americans who think of the matter at all would prefer to see the world divided between two or three monster states which had reached their natural boundaries and could bargain with one another on economic issues without being troubled by ideological differences. Such a world-picture fits in with the American tendency to admire size for its own sake and to feel that success constitutes justification, and it fits in with the all-prevailing anti-British sentiment. In practice. Britain and the United States have twice been forced into alliance against Germany, and will probably, before long, be forced into alliance against Russia: but, subjectively, a majority of Americans would prefer either Russia or Germany to Britain, and, as between Russia and Germany, would prefer whichever seemed stronger at the moment.[4] It is, therefore, not surprising that Burnham’s world-view should often be noticeably close to that of the American imperialists on the one side, or to that of the isolationists on the other. It is a ‘tough’ or ‘realistic’ world-view which fits in with the American form of wish-thinking. The almost open admiration for Nazi methods which Burnham shows in the earlier of his two books, and which would seem shocking to almost any English reader, depends ultimately on the fact that the Atlantic is wider than the Channel.https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/second-thoughts-on-james-burnham/ >>2575468>intelligensiaBeen a while since I heard that one. Probably because all the lefty french philosophers died and right wingers got their own little celebrity professors like Crying Peterson. Also seems like the professor debate circuit has been culturally downed out with random youtubers and streamers.
>>2575468It is factually true and inarguable that the vast majority of Americans are willing and enthusiastic collaborators. You can use whatever academic term you want to describe that collaboration but it is no less omnipresent.
>>2575477>It is factually true and inarguable that the vast majority of Americans are willing and enthusiastic collaborators.Well I know you certainly are Felix.
>>2575479And you know that I am certainly right.
>>2575480So you agree you are a willing and enthusiastic collaborator?
>>2575477Projection. It's obvious you got approached by the feds for the threats you constantly post and agreed to become an asset…
>>2575477>It is factually true and inarguable that the vast majority of Americans are willing and enthusiastic collaborators.No
>>2575440Those people jumped to workers in service economy countries being "imperialist".
>>2575287I really hope China kills the grip Nvidia has on graphic's cards. Sadly I need Cuda these provide cores
>>2575293send ben garrison to the gulag
>>2575517Yeah but only for a little bit.
We need his art for the agitprop.
>>2575293>>2575516Garrison drew Fetterman's "reason" to look like pot of shit with stink lines coming off it. What is that even supposed to be?
>>2575518He is such a bad cartoonist he regularly becomes good on accident. The Horseshoe Comic Theory.
>>2575274Remind me, did lenin join the kadets or did he join an explicitly marxist party
>>2574643>if you call me what I am u r fascistMoron lib
>>2575602You’re a fascist moralizing lib that lies about people’s suffering. When you point you’re finger there’s 3 pointing back.
>>2575611Angry Afghan at the US letting his family rot with the Taliban?
>>2574662>Even as they come to conclusions that would’ve had Lenin call them Left-Coms.I don't think the people Lenin criticized were as stupid as the average TWist frankly
>>2575611how unsuprising lol
Its türkiyiyiye racist chud.
>>2575515China isn’t going to do that. Nvidia is going to do that. They should’ve stayed dedicated to the gaming market. Now they’re about to go supernova because they went all in on faulty and underdeveloped technologies.
China might have loosened its own grip as well by getting into the ai market, a move that is still surprising to me.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone :) Make sure to argue with your family today about Bordiga or Stalin or Mao
>>2575626I want to stay in bed
>>2575626I don't talk to my family. Or anyone really
>>2575101Just deep fry it.
Drops the cooking time to like 30m.
It's unhealthy I guess, but like how many times do you eat turkey a year?
>>2575629>>2575631No friendsgiving? You're spending it all alone anon?
>>2575650No. I live with my parents so it'll be just them my siblings and my sisters spouse. I'll just eat and go back to my room. Maybe I'll even eat after they're gone.
>>2575293i dont understand why we need a label for Obama but Kamala Harris is unlabelled and pelosi just has a P and one anon already didn't recognise her.
>>2575293>portraying Fetterman as the voice of reasonAbsolute cinema.
>>2575636Pic rel.
>>2575086What do they even mean by unleashing energy dominance? Like do they expect ai to Crack cold fusion? Even if it did the government wouldn't use it because they already are sabotaging solar and wind because its good enough already to hurt oil company revenues, so it makes zero sense to me.
>>2575266When America invades a country the resources dont go to the working class , its not like everybody got a little piece of what was looted from Iraq the majority of it went to our ruling class, I think we could stop imperialism without hurting normal people's living standards especially if we weren't feeding a parasitic bourgeoisie like now
poor americans, they are the most oppressed people on earth
>GOP senator calls to ban, deport ‘Islam’ immigrants over National Guard shooting
tommy tuberville moment
>>2575694
kinda lazy tbh he's losing his touch
>>2575699Kazakhstan celebrates Thanksgiving too
>>2575704Because americans make them. They do it to spread soviet deportation myths. Thanksgiving is fascist
Can't wait for the 2050s when we have un-paid government unemployment programmes where hungry unemployed americans have to pick the corn and the wheat and if they work hard enough they get thanksgiving MREs.
>>2575714We won't harvesters and threshers to do the work in the future?
>>2575717When there is no longer any skilled labour or illegals to exploit it will be cheaper for teeming masses of uniformed unpaid labourers to do the work.
And maybe in 20 years you'll get a Tesla.
>>2575439Revisionism. It is lenin who scientifically explained how all snakes are oppressors and exploiters. Denial of labor aristocracy is denial of imperialism and hence anti-Lenin revisionism
<The export of capital, one of the most essential economic bases of imperialism, still more completely isolates the rentiers from production and sets the seal of parasitism on the whole country that lives by exploiting the labour of several overseas countries and colonies.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch08.htm300-400 million out of 1,600 are oppressors
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/cw/pdf/lenin-cw-vol-39.pdf >>2575718Yeah your probably right. Most likely I'll definitely dead or close to death by then. Anyways I could probably get a Tesla now if I wanted one.
>>2575262>Which of the two above arguments will convince American workers better?this is so silly, pretending americans do not understand that imperial violence abroad gets them the treats. truth is americans understood tariffs as some terrible punishment on the third world, a misunderstanding born directly from american supremacy ideology which makes them feel like the world relies on america and not the other way around, and that at their beck and call, they can make the world feel pain. simply put, americans need to abandon national chauvinism, that's the only way out.
>>2575708>>2575262it's pretty infantilizing rhetoric that also seemingly excuses american workers own complicitness in imperialism. there are not many americans who could be convinced by this. they are just smol beans that do not understand where treats come from, absurd. stupid logic, it hinges on americans own short-term well-being, which means the minute they feel the slightest bit of pain, they will abandon the common cause, completely stupid, what kind of moron thinks this is good rhetorics.
the DC shooter from yesterday turns out to have worked with the CIA in afghanistan lmao
>>2575748>>2575750Every time these types of shootings happen I'll just assume the government was behind it somehow. Maybe most people will assume that from now on.
>>2575636goddamn he captured gavin newsom so well
>Tucker Carlson implies that the UK shouldn’t have declared war on Germany after the German attack on the UK’s ally Poland. He seems to argue that Germany wasn’t a threat to the UK and that Hitler was focused on fighting communism.
Same guy who's been seething and complaining about America's lend-lease to Stalin btw
>>2575756Now, now, let us not be hasty
Let's wait for the Grok assisted "manifesto" and the "engraved" bullets to drop lel
>>2575718Slaves and machines don't mix. The reality is revolution is inevitable. There's no going back in terms of modes of production
>>2575767Yeah they're feeling pain now that all the intellectual labor has been outsourced, but that's just the logical endpoint as markets scramble to cut costs. You know what solution americans took here, come on, don't be stupid. What do you think Trump campaigned on?
Guys…3d printed chicken soup
>>25757733d printed chicken jockey
>>2575789I remember when I was younger I used to joke around calling it Cambell’s chicken noodle poop soup. It’s hard to believe how true this is today.
Imagine if Trump got on TV and just dropped the N word hard R. Would his polls spike up more of flatline?
>>2575694
He finally made trump look fat
>>2575723>The export of capital, one of the most essential economic bases of imperialism, still more completely isolates the rentiers from production and sets the seal of parasitism on the whole country that lives by exploiting the labour of several overseas countries and colonies.This isn't an issue in disagreement.
>The author is quite right: if the forces of imperialism had not been counteracted they would have led precisely to what he has described. The significance of a “United States of Europe” in the present imperialist situation is correctly appraised. He should have added, however, that, also within the working-class movement, the opportunists, who are for the moment victorious in most countries, are “working” systematically and undeviatingly in this very direction. Imperialism, which means the partitioning of the world, and the exploitation of other countries besides China, which means high monopoly profits for a handful of very rich countries, makes it economically possible to bribe the upper strata of the proletariat, and thereby fosters, gives shape to, and strengthens opportunism. >>2575806>I can't wait to be servile!Why are they fucking like this?
Caste mentality?
So what is campbells soup made of lol, I like that shit, not the chicken noodle stuff, but the mushroom cream, what do I do, should I drop it
>open thread
>thanksgiving arguments
Leftypol truly is the shambling zombie of the 2010s left wearing marxist paint
>>2575775>sacred traditions hidden in each world civilization's cultureCultural revolution didnt go far enough.
>>2575841Just out of interested what should 2025 zoomer leftism look like?
>>2575843For starters, do/say constructive shit instead of stirring shit up with petty culture-war-baiting
>>2575845Leftypol used to be way more anti-idpol.
thanksgiving is a celebration of genocide
Happy Thanksgiving everyone 🦃
>>2575822>This isn't an issue in disagreement.Yes it is. Lenin explains that the whole of imperialist countries are parasitic, hence Lenin concludes that all americans are oppressors and exploiters.
>Imperialism, which means the partitioning of the world, and the exploitation of other countries besides China, which means high monopoly profits for a handful of very rich countries, makes it economically possible to bribe the upper strata of the proletariatThe american workers are bribed upper strata of proletariat. This is why they are imperialist
>>2575851Thanksgiving is about celebrating your mother's bountiful loins, of which we have all partook in times of drought.
Say hi to her for me.
>>2575863
How's your grandma doing? Going to visit her today?
>>2575864>a housing "crisis" "we" "created"why do libs have such an anthropocentric view of capitalism
>>2575869
poor oppressed incel lmfao
>>2575869
You probably deserved it
>>2575869
Sir, this is a Tgirl support group.
>>2575878
lmao incel
>>2575806Retvrn to east indies company
>>2575858Bro has not read imperialism :skull:
>>2575869
transitioning could save you.
coming to leftypol looking for help getting laid is like going to a bar looking for help getting sober.
>>2575869
What's your source on that? You are making a big claim that needs strong supporting evidence.
>>2575890I don't know and this is anecdotal but I think I have several male family members which include me who seem like they've never been with a woman or have had very little activity in that area anyways. I remember an anon who came here once mentioning he had 4 siblings 3 of which were brothers and it seemed like he said that himself and his brothers were all mal adjusted in some way and had never had sex. Of course one of his brothers had down syndrome and his sister might've been the only one to have had sex and coinceditally was the only one not to still live at home. Plus the fact that this website and other image boards are filled with people like me. Or so I've heard I've not really used much image boards other than this one. Personally I just think a lot of guys were never really going to have much success in love and romance. Women too but much less than men.
>>2575875
>My grandma is dead
And that's why you're alone on thanksgiving… 😥
>>2575914
There’s a difference between acknowledging that loneliness is a real social problem, and letting irrational misogynists scream that their real oppressor is women and not capitalism.
I’m sorry, but when someone comes in here and starts spouting MRA/red pill bullshit and acts like not taking it seriously is the same as being oppressed, then yes, they’re going to be mocked.
LOTS of men and women are chronically lonely and single under capitalism. That doesn’t mean they’re all going to see incel ideology as a convincing explanation. Choosing to ascribe to the worldview of an incel is that person’s fault, because it speaks to how they as an individual handle problems.
>>2575919
Agreed. The problem is, again, that there’s a difference between listening to young men’s problems, and letting reactionaries suck in all the air in the room - and every time I’ve seen a person chooses incel ideology, they basically become irrational, foaming at the mouth lunatics who can’t be reasoned with.
I bring this up because every time I’ve seen this come up, incels usually come in and use it as a way to try and sneak in MRA talking points: they know what they’re doing. If the left doesn’t take a hard anti-red pill stance while maintaining an openness to hearing out young men’s problems, it allows reactionary wreckers to come in and steer the conversation towards their bullshit. They can package ass-backwards gender politics that make men and women miserable by socially and psychologically stunting them under a thin veneer of economic populism
We need to vocally and out loud recognize inceldom for what it is - a scam cult that grooms, manipulates and exploits lonely and isolated young men for the sake of enriching a bunch of bourgeois and petit-bourgeois conservative entertainers. We need to make it clear and say it out loud that redpillers are a parasitic enemy of men. By starting with that, it puts them on the defensive. It needs to be made clear that men and women have a common social and material interest in rejecting these freaks
>>2575931You have a very active imagination wife guy.
stfu with this incel shit. go away
>>2575933>wife guyAh, found one.
>>2575943The only one here with an agenda is you. Have you heard of this term called psychological projection, where you're biased to perceive that other people think and behave like you do?
>>2575941Also more American mouths means more exploitation of the third world
>>2575945You seem awfully ruffled for someone who’s supposed to be on the same page. Care to explain why?
>>2575946Unironically true
>>2575953Don’t waste our time with trolling and say exactly what you mean.
cia death squad Afghan native collaborator who was acquitted and sent to America to escape the wrath of his compatriots most likely felt insanely guilty about his deeds and took it out a la chud moment
little bit late there bud! but i appreciate the effort i guess
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/national-guard-shooting-suspect-afghanistan-zero-units/>>2575956>>2575957>So basically, you’re freaking out at someone agreeing either you and getting mad at a guy in your head.That's all you chief. From the very start you were inventing a whole army of imaginary guys who are coordinating their grooming on their
transhumanist incel discords.
>>2575931>>2575972orientalist drivel. shut the fuck up gay nazi.
>>2575967>incel tourist projecting their own projectioncool
>>2575977Are your two moms visiting for Thanksgiving?
>>2575941It's also sussy af the ruling class is promoting starting a family with 0 economic incentive to do so. It's incredibly obvious they want more wage slaves in its reserve army of labor as well as, lets face it, canon fodder in its future imperialist ventures for the sake of college bux and escaping poverty.
>>2575980I'm serious. You are that guy who said he was raised by a lesbian couple right?
you have an obligation to ruin your family's thanksgiving dinner
>>2575993Yeah, it's one of those things that, while the sentiment is nice, you either are or aren't.
If you've learned better, just say "I've learned better," don't fuckin' do this weird group therapy shit
>>2575972i mean ok i can admit the guilt culture is burger centric but why would someone who helped the western death squad give any fucks about their tribal honor/values if they went that far to collaborate. probably only gave a fuck about themselves and thats why they accepted the deal to have asylum in amerikkka
>>2575996just read the last part out loud. the individualist thinking is burger centric too. but idk there exist non conformists in every culture so they could just be a westaboo
>>2575994shut the fuck up gay nazi. kill yourself.
>>2575990charlie kirk was bragging about this. "progressives" tend to be the marginalized people, of course they won't have the same opportunities to have children.
so basically, the only thing that will exist in the US is a bunch of reactionaries, while the group that has some demands are reduced to do comedy.
>>2575990do NOT look at the Amish population forecasts for 2050 if you want to sleep tonight
>>2575999>>2575996being a burger death squaddie during almost two decades of occupation might well have meant they grew up in burger mercenary culture almost as much as their own.
>>2575990if he wasnt rich and born to a apartheid emerald miner who exploited africans then he would be a wierdo incel guy furiously beating his egg shaped cock
>>2576005They're buying up a shit ton of land too.
>>2575996>why would someone who helped the western death squad give any fucks about their tribal honor/values if they went that far to collaborateThose aren't necessarily opposed categories. You're thinking in terms of nationalism but "Afghan" isn't necessarily the primary layer of identity for many people there, and there are people there who don't even consider themselves to be "Afghans." It's what family, clan, tribe you belong to. What could matter more if you worked for the Americans is whether your clan approved of it or whether it would bring honor/dishonor to your village. There's a reciprocity to that. You give loyalty, the Americans give protection and respect. The Americans fail at providing that – that's bad because now you feel shame because you've dishonored your family. Now how do you restore your honor? (Kill the Americans.) Americans didn't realize this.
Also clans, families, etc. would fight each other and tell the Americans "oh those guys over there are Taliban, come help us kill them" even though that wasn't the case. The Americans have overwhelming firepower and a lot of money, but they're essentially a really well-armed (but easily manipulated) militia, so they can help you kill those other guys. So the Americans kill those guys and have now made a bunch of new enemies and their relatives then ally with the Taliban to kick the Americans and their collaboraters out.
>>2576002Hes right though. Its really more of a communal issue. Give me 1 good reason why every town in USA isnt hosting dating events at least monthly.
>The estate of Johnny Cash is suing Coca-Cola for illegally hiring a tribute act to impersonate the late US country singer in an advertisement that plays between college football games.
>The case has been filed under the Elvis Act of Tennessee, made effective last year, which protects a person’s voice from exploitation without consent. The estate said that while it has previously licensed Cash’s songs, Coca-Cola did not approach them for permission in this instance
Rent seeking estate vs evil corporation pick your fighter
>>2576017
I'm guessing it's all AI.
>>2576002Is it that easy to become a clinical psychologist? I can spout off unscientific bullshit too. Do I just have to pay for a master's degree?
>>2576026Straight into the garbage
"The Incel Question" is a sociological issue that we as socialists should address. Highlighting the effect material conditions has on human sexuality. The incel phenomenon isn't new. However it's an problem in society that must be corrected through proper education and reeducation.
>>2576034
You have somewhat of a point. Dating events wont do much. But the other issue is this USA is literally preventative of men getting anywhere in life or anyone being able to make a stable life to provide a partner with.
>>2576045Forgot to add. And as such sex work needs to be decriminalized to alleviate these ills if USA refuses to function like a normal country.
>>2576037>>2576045Is there such a question? Sex dynamics are constrained by our animal nature. How are you gonna help ugly women? Social plastic surgery? Most men strive for the same type of girl. Equally, women seek for wealthy men.
Nonetheless I agree that capitalism makes it hard for men to offer anything even if they work hard, especially now. One could assume that in a more equal society women will look at men for they are, and not what they have.
In some countries like Japan women are shamelessly goldiggers
>>2576055
>In the early 20th century when this same thing happened it lead to the rise of fascism
I cannot believe anon is suggesting we neck an entire generation of men (based)
>>2576067Do you base that from something or just bullshit you saw other people say on the internet and keep repeating
This thread suddenly totally derailed in incel talking with far right incel exact talking points
>>2576072Nobody takes the concept of "incel" seriously. What serious studies have been done about it?
That's where the "incel"gender obsessed fail
>But the other issue is this USA is literally preventative of men getting anywhere in life or anyone being able to make a stable life to provide a partner with
it's true, but it's not at all specific to men, same for women
>>2576075When a large part of your user base is in that category or adjacent to it it's going to be brought up.
>>2576037uhh just kill em all yeah
>>2576037marx said so btw. he said in his letter to engels "just kill the incels"
>>2576078Yeah why not, but the problem is that it's when they talk about it it is not from the left but with the far right essentialist talking points bullshit
Hope everyone is having a good Thanksgiving dinner!
at least make separate thread for your pathetic incel pity party
>>2576087They do get made. They just end getting deleted
>>2576089zamn take the hint and fuck off then
>>2576049We are not encouraging our young women to be labor deserters, housewives and prostitutes.
Women are workers. They hold up half the sky. They need not sell their bodies.
The liberal Zionist pornographer class did an amazing job selling being an online prostitute as empowering.
>>2576085
Is what you say really based on "your experience" ? Because it is exactly what far righter on the internet who hate women say. I am not blaming you, just be cautious thoses discourses are not necessarly reality
>>2576058
It isn't, they're literal rags lol
>>2576098
>Idunno what could be the cause beyond "women adapt better to capitalism" unless we wanna dig into how men and women are socialized as children, society's expectations for them, their role models under capitalism, etc that would lead men to fail at a higher rate than women.
It's the patriarchy you idiot.
>>2576095You assumed I meant only women can be in sex work. You also assume I encouraged it. Anyhow, we'd just round up anti-communist women to use how we felt if I had things my way.
>>2576109>Anyhow, we'd just round up anti-communist women to use how we felt if I had things my way.Average leftypol feminist.
>>2576096>Is what you say really based on "your experience" ? Because it is exactly what far righter on the internet who hate women say. I am not blaming you, just be cautious thoses discourses are not necessarly reality Bro really said your life is too stereotypical… 😭😭😭
>>2576037The Soviet Union had no “incel” issue because nobody mocked anyone for not having sex. It was also easier to get married for both men and women and they were not pressured by capitalist forces or reactionary forces.
That shooter was super fat he was completely assimilated into American culture.
>>2576116So the bullets just bounced off his stomach?
>>2576118That's how he survived. American body armor
>>2576034
> fetish hookups with men that are already in committed relationships cheating on their girlfriends
These reactionary men should be castrated. I honestly don’t understand why are there so few feminists who support castration of reactionary men.
>>2576122
True but these relationships are mostly coercive on the guy’s side. A lot of these guys are capitalists who have money yet are older and more intimidating.
>>2576121>>2576122Castrating chuds sounds pretty based imo. It’s also allowed under U.S. law.
>>2576121>>2576122Since when do we communists hold the truth or moral ground to judge personal relationships?
Human relationships are too complex to understand
>>2576114There was more women than men in the postwar USSR due to all the male deaths in WW2, so the men who survived WW2 were in lower supply, and therefore higher demand.
>>2576037We will probably invent a pill or something eventually that people will take so they won't want to have sex. There are multiple medicines that already have that a side effect. The incel question will disappear not because men will get state mandated girlfriends or something rapey like that, it will disappear because sexual desire will be regarded a cumbersome inefficiency like depression or anger issues. It can be dealt with using a pill. Perhaps humans will be made in labs, mass-manufactured, or will just merge with technology anyway so that sex stops being a question altogether.
>>2576125Pedophilia aka Agent Kochinskiism is judged by communist states and their parties. It’s illegal and considered reactionary.
>>2576121>These reactionary men should be castrated. I honestly don’t understand why are there so few feminists who support castration of reactionary men.>>2576123>True but these relationships are mostly coercive on the guy’s side. A lot of these guys are capitalists who have money yet are older and more intimidating.Doesn't sound like she is being coerced or intimidating into doing the same thing over and over with multiple men.
>>2576034>Anecdotally I recently talked to my ex and she admitted she gave up on finding an actual partner because "single men are boring" and now just does fetish hookups with men that are already in committed relationships cheating on their girlfriends. I was tempted to call her a bitch but I'm unfortunately still in love with her. >>2576129
> capitalism encourages it because it benefits wealthy men for women to be manipulated to worship status and wealth
That’s why you need socialism but you have to target reactionary forces to prevent the undercurrents from bringing back the capitalist system.
Castro should’ve just castrated the gusanos instead of letting them out to the U.S. Castro wouldn’t have to deal with the pay of pigs invasion or the other bullshit from gusanos decades later
>>2576133>Castro should’ve just castrated the gusanoscastroation
kinda funny to see all the bicoastal "leftist" streamers and podcasters doin their best to ignore all the popular discontent and disappointment with the dsa, the democrats, mamdani, and platner. is this the most libbed up they've ever been?
>>2576135The influencers are feds.
>>2576015who is the middle easterner in the last pic supposed to be
>>2575699>muh land theftDo you want modern Amerindians be made the new landlords and bourgeoisie of the USA as reparations or something? Workers of the world will just take it all for socialism anyway so it seems pointless complaint for a leftist.
>>2575858So all of the imprisoned people, homeless people, trans people, and BIPOC Americans are imperialist too, right?
>>2576135Are you sure it's "popular discontent" and not just your twitter bubble of inconsequential opinion-havers?
why do americans celebrate thanksgiving?
>>2576143Big poultry has psyopped us
>>2576143because USA society is a fascist society. it's core values are genocide, war, and violence.
>>2576143Made a national holiday by FDR. Otherwise it wouldn't be as big.
>>2576146Isn't funny how unironic fascists also think the same exact thing about America? Only difference is they think jews are holding America back. What do you think is holding back America from nuking the world into submission?
>>2576142Well it can't be popular discontent insofar as Mamdani hasn't even been sworn in, but the xitter DSA people who talk like little drones are definitely disappointed and/or in damage control mode
>>2576150>Isn't funny how unironic fascists also think the same exact thing about America?Broken Clocks
>Only difference is they think jews are holding America back.Americans love to pretend that other people are always the problem and not themselves. Your post is a reflection of that.
>>2576153>Americans love to pretend that other people are always the problem and not themselves. Your post is a reflection of that.T. Guy who comes here everyday about how Amerikkkans are behind everything wrong in his life.
Pardoning the turkey is one of the most quintessentially American traditions.
Firstly, it's pure spectacular nonsense meant to put a softer image on one of the most brutal tyrants on earth. It's extremely kitsch and intentionally a misapplication of political power. That's actually a key part of what it's doing. The very act of using Presidential power for something it's not meant for is the point. You are supposed to associate the President misuing powers with harmless funny shenanigans, particularly the power to decide life and death. Pardoning the turkey also presumes some kind of guilt, which the ritual is meant to normalize. It's up to the Great Man to do Great Things and hand out rewards or punishments.
Secondly, of course, this is also a Turkey, which obviously is not capable of committing a crime for which it could theoretically be pardoned. The point of this is to implicate turkeys as a whole (by their nature) since no individual turkey can offend. Subconsciously, this is designed to reinforce racial hatred and notions of collective guilt. The turkey is in effect "one of the good ones" who will be spared from the turkey holocaust, which is meant to symbolically absolve not so much this or any turkeys, but all of us who are partaking in and benefiting from the mass killing. Now, I'm not saying this to make a vegan argument, but rather that turkeys in the ritual context of the ceremony are meant to stand in for racialized people who have been targeted with actual genocides associated with Thanksgiving.
Thirdly, the treatment of the turkey as "one of the good ones" who is to be spared the horrors of the dinner table is a reflection of America's hyper-individualism. This is one turkey out of millions who will not be chewed up by the (sometimes literal) meat grinder, and this special case is supposed to dominate our social consciousness and mask the normal, banal death and destruction it wages. The exception is the rule, we are to believe. This is true of the "American Dream" of rags to riches just as it's true of highlighting the scant political successes of the past as examples of the country's greatness, ignoring all its catastrophic failures and crimes. You, yes you, will definitely be The One who makes it out because You are special and different from the others.
Sure it's all very absurd and it's fine to laugh at it, but you should understand that it's a kind of intentional self-aware and intentional absurdity, and it's a functional piece of propaganda expressing and reinforcing important components of America's ideology.
>>2576143Its to celebrate the natives
How do you guys never get bored of just trolling the Amerikkkans all day everyday? Do you guys get paid to do this? Or you just have nothing better to do with your life?
>>2576143It's a harvest festival like any other really, we just have some weird mythos about it
>>2576145isn't it a story about how native americans helped european squatters to not starve to death and then the latter proceeded to kill everybody in repayment?
>>2576159>It's a harvest festival like any other really, we just have some weird mythos about it>>2576156>Its to celebrate the nativesAll that weirdo native bullshit story they added on top has nothing to do with the actual origin. The Puritans were celebrating thanksgiving in England before they came.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days_of_humiliation_and_thanksgiving>Puritans rejected the traditional Christian liturgical calendar of holy days, including Easter and Christmas, as well as saints' days, but set aside special days to thank God, as well as days of prayer and fasting.[A][2] Days of thanksgiving and days of humiliation were public observances in Protestant Christianity, particularly among Puritan communities in early modern England and colonial America. A day of humiliation or fasting was a publicly proclaimed day of fasting and prayer in response to an event thought to signal God's judgement. A day of thanksgiving was a day set aside for public worship in thanksgiving for events believed to signal God's mercy and favor. Such a day might be proclaimed by the civil authority or the church.[3] >>2576135Your hypothesis is largly founded, but the dick is as far up their ass as its always been. A higher stage of dick riding has been achieved, and nothing else.
>>2576143IIRC Thanksgiving was created during or after the civil war. The Union won a couple of major victories and Lincoln wanted a day to commemorate peace and unity for the whole country. He asked his advisors to look for events in the past to create a holiday around and “the first Thanksgiving” was the one chosen.
The actual event itself was, if I recall correctly, both the Purtians holding a feast to commemorate surviving the winter (the previous winter many in the colony starved to death) and inviting the Wampanoag tribe as restitution when a couple of puritans had been caught for stealing corn. They later formed an alliance with the Wampanoag that lasted for almost half a century and I think even fought on wars alongside them until later English colonists came and pushed them out.
>>2576176
Why?
>>2576153Funny you avoided the question. If America was fascist genociders and nothing but pure evil why don't they strategically nuke South America, Central America and Africa to force them into abject slavery and complete their control over the third world? We all know EU, China and Russia would do nothing in response.
>>2576176Story?
Since we’re talking settlers and all that. Anyone else remember reading a book about a like a 14 year old boy who’s dad left for a 6 month journey and was like “you stay and watch the cabin bye!” And he befriends a native kid and he teaches the native kid to read and the native kid teaches to hunt. He was reading Robinson Cureso to the native and got to the point where Robison save a native and that native like pledges servitude and it pissed his friend off so he retconned the whole whole book on the fly so they end up being partners.
why is western "evil" so fucking stupid. I would have at least respected it if it was "smart" but nah its lets depend on oil and old energy sources instead of new ones.
Like christ even if you ignore climate change, renewable sources are still beneficial. It theoretically presents way less costs than traditional energy sources.
>>2576184>It theoretically presents way less costs than traditional energy sources.Like if western economies want to remain competitive to china, you would think they would fund a lot of renewable energy. But nope, instead they are suppressing it????
>>2576185They are funding renewables but all the excess energy is going into A.I bullshit. Ironically Texas is like the number 1# to number 2# state for wind and solar.
>>2576187
Is your sister single?
>>2576189Its fucking amazing. I wouldnt care so much if it was smart "evil" but no ITS GENUINE 100 percent complete retardation. HOLY FUCKING CLOWN WORLD
>>2576184>>2576185Generally speaking setting up a new technology is expensive when using already established tech is relatively cheap in comparison. Here a report from a few years ago saying America would need to at least a trillion dollars to revamp it's electric grid system.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-renewables-electric-grid/>>2576187>>2576193>be a woman this crazy and selfish. >still not single. hoeflation is real imo
>>2576195> Here a report from a few years ago saying America would need to at least a trillion dollars to revamp it's electric grid system.yeah but refusing to upgrade it right now when your competitor is advancing (china), is long term suicide. Its like america has no long term planning……..
>>2576187
BASED
don't celebrate thanksgiving. ruin all thanksgiving celebrations.
>>2576189Damn, Trump is truly a retard. The thing about renewables is that they were competition with fossil fuels with a fraction of the subsidies and under constant political attack. They're prolly going to move to just outright ban them or regulate it so much only the rich will have access to it. The reason porky hates renewables is they work to well and decentralize energy production. One the reasons I think micro-generation is the path forward to push renewables by offering it for free for suburbia and landlords. As a short term solution of course, just undercut energy companies and turn them all into basically grid managers making it easier to liquidate them into a state asset once they become unprofitable.
>>2575958
>real communists commit random violence on bitches from comedy central
Real iron felix more like really in the fbi
>>2576155underrated trvthnvke
>>2576218There's apparently a scene from the Hannibal prequel novel where he joins the French Communist Party and writes a couple articles on Soviet collectivization to get into the USSR, and when he's arrested for being a murderous cannibal a bunch of communists protest it.
The "murder a random woman from Comedy Central and double-deal on hostage taking" really does seem like there are still dudes who are just violent sadists that want to mask it in supposed socialist ideology.
>>2576237I was thinking last night that you have to be a little messed up in the head to be in to politics
possible projection either that or completely selflessness most people aren't, felix is clearly unstable thoughever
>>2575958
I like how film crews are bourgeise enemies to felix but hotel workers are proles, i think it has to do with the fact that felix is a hotel worker and not a camera man
>>2576237"He's a monster. I think of him as one of those pitiful things that are born in hospitals from time to time. They feed it, and keep it warm, but they don't put it on the machines and it dies. Felix is the same way in his head, but he looks normal and nobody could tell."
>fracking wells are already at energy return on investment ratios of 4:1 (7:1 is the minimum for industrial civilization so fracking is literally subsidized by other forms of energy),
>the wells will deplete more making the energy return on investment lower
>so our society will be made literally energy pooer
>as the rest of the world goes in on solar and wind because it makes economic sense
>america in the future is not only absolutely poorer in terms of having access to less energy it well be relatively less prosperous relative to the rest of the world
>by the time the remaining oil somewhere where its not worth to bring it up in terms of EROI
>we will be financially too broke to by a modern grid
>may easily by the most destructive long design to the US the pedophile senile retard in chief
At least the oil companies get to make money a little longer
jk none. Of this is relevant because climate will kill us in ten years , just pretending the future exists
>>2576240So when I talked to a few people in the CPUSA (they'll remain nameless) you know I saw a few that were raised Catholic and wanted to grow up to be Priests or Nuns, like a few even went as far as doing the initial work to go to Seminary.
I think quite a lot of people get into politics, the more niche kind I suppose, because of some moral compunctions and strong feelings of right and wrong. However I think just as likely there are those who adopt politics as a kind of super-ego and dream of just decades of torturing and brutalizing everyone they dislike. Their order is taking too long at the restaurant and they imagine the possibility of putting the waiter in a concentration camp.
>>2576058
>why won't you share your emotions
<okay i feel like crap
>fuck you for making me deal with your emotions unpaid
lmao
>>2576244fracking started at 1:1 EROEI IIRC. And shale deposits are kinda huge, so it's not likely that they'll deplete too much for a while. But it's only really gonna make sense for the US.
>>2576247Of course the people in the "C"PUSA tried to join the most reactionary organization in the history of the world, the KKKatholiKKK Church. When that failed, they joined the second most reactionary organization, the "C"PUSA. If you think that you learn right and wrong from the Bible you are even more reactionary than I thought you were, and frankly I already think the only substantive difference between you and Goering is honesty.
death to the Trumpist Burger Reich™ appeasement agenda. Genealogy tried to warn us in Eurovision with their song which was originally called "Don't Deny". Hayastan and Sakartvelo is falling thanks to P*tin's Psy-Op and his puppets like Ivanishvili and Trump. I recognise that Nagorno-Karabakh as Armenian. "Muh Christianity!", MAGAists say when in reality Hayastan was the first Christian country. Face the facts, Trumpists
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