>Couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
>You must answer the question to make a new thread. See the last field.
>The body was too short or empty.
6-2=????
Anyone else got a touch of the covid?
she is actually a good leftist, she actually supports radical policies, she's actually tryng to get in touch with a real movement. why did she sabotage the conference like that? oh my fucking God bruh the UK truly is hopeless
>>2590679she didn't sabotage the conference, she saved it.
>>2590679>why did she sabotage the conference like that?How did she sabotage the conference?
>>2590683did you not see?
Can Your Party become a sort of electable DSA? People should make more radical caucuses.
>>2590682the clique, by protesting and supporting the general membership and their revulsion to arbitrary expulsions, she helped set the stage for the next 2 days where the conference was more-or-less okay. basically, by virtue of being an MP and by drawing attention to the story, she imposed costs on the clique for their actions.
if they'd continued down that track she could've skipped all 3 days of the conference, which would do a lot to de-legitimize the party. as an MP, she's in a very good position to impose costs on the clique for trying to do things their way against the will of the membership, since in the last resort she could always start her own party (which would fail, but would also hole Your Party beneath the waterline because it would get more attention by merit of being founded by an MP.) so keeping her on-side is necessary.
>>2590703the clique of ex-LOTO staffers around Corbyn who want to create Labour 2.0, who've generally been more concerned about keeping the likes of Adnan Hussein on side than they have about the views of the membership.
>>2590691You have no argument and are spouting vague nothings to wreck then?
Okay.
>>2590704the self expulsion of conservative elements was good but i dont think this was really the correct tactic, sends the wrong message
>>2590679"nationalise greggs" is a bit of a silly platform tbf
>>2590715to who? right opportunists? I'll be fine.
>>2590717you'll be fine, will the party be fine?
>>2590715inviting them in was an unforced error, their quick self-expulsion is better than the alternative of compromising again and again until inevitably they quit anyway.
social conservatism can, for argument sake, be overlooked: economically they are too moderate for even a Scottish National Party tier socdem org, and in competence terms they are too addicted to running their mouths (PR liability) and getting in stupid arguments with random twitter users. (unbecoming of any MP!)
>>2590720after the membership system thing, the single biggest PR blunder for your party is to have young people doubting whether it's solid on social issues. if a party won't give you the outright free stuff (social liberalism) why would you trust it to deliver expensive and complicated economic reform?
even if you say: ah, electorally they have to build a coalition between leftists and conservatives, you can do that tactfully (have nobody say anything in public but reassure high-ranking people off the record, or, if really pushed, go "well that's for conference to decide") instead of creating doubts.
>>2590732lowe is all bark and no bite
the leader of his party is a first-generation immigrant black woman, yet he plays the part of enoch powell
>>2590731that is reasonable, only thing is that it kind of showed YP weak from the start which is really sad
>>2590751
"""afghan"""
man has tiktok, man is melanin white, but surely it is a afghan
>>2590751
finally…. hitlercunnyrapist has been apprehended
>>2590758
And not live to see you top yourself when Farage inevitably maintains immigration like so many alt-right populists have done before him?
>>2590758
>the next capitalist demagogue will definitely go again the bourgeois interests they openly serve trust the plan
>>2590758
go back to your containment zone
>>2590762
Well usury is still illegal in the Islamic faith and usury is the British bourgeoisie’s primary industry
>>2590764
alri mate
but historical materialism innit
Personally I think this anon sounds like he gets beaten by his father
>>2590770
He also calls you a pansy for crying
sultana's cult of personality is weird
>>2590716the People's Pastry
>>2590818personally, i always preferred sayers, who habe franchised into pound bakery. at least their pastries are always hot and not cold 80% of the time like in greggs
>>2590825Greggs is proletarian tho
They've unveiled the actual branding for Great British railways
It's mid. The name remains bad and they've gone with red white and blue just in case you didn't know it was British, but it incorporates the flag into the BR logo motif in a competent enough way. Personally I don't like the way every carriage appears to have an arrow at the front, but I see why they did it. (I'd have the middle carriages flat with an arrow at the end of the train, which is clever until they start mixing and matching multiple units)
>>2590826is there a bourgeois pastry company?
>>2590825Never heard of Sayers. I think you get the best pasties at Oggy Oggy, they're tasty and always hot.
What even is Sultanaism about?
Wealth redistribution, ban on landlords, full economic nationalisation, backing unions and striking workers, progressive social policies?
But then she also seems hyper obsessed with this notion of democracy too. Random sortition (even if conference rejected it it's clearly her personal desire), decision by councils without individual leadership figures, borderline council communist rojava zapatista ass type decision making processes.
Where does she stand on revolution? Clearly she's fine with electoralism, but is that the means or just a stop gap to build mass support?
>>2591034I say this as a fan: she just says what left twitter wants to hear.
I think she means well, she's got the right impulse, but her head is empty. She's a random Labour left MP thrust into a figurehead position aware that Corbyn, the same basic type, blundered by being moderate and compromising with the status quo powerbrokers. She won't make that mistake, but she's only got ears, not a plan.
>>2591034>decision by councils without individual leadership figures, borderline council communist rojava zapatista ass type decision making processes.She seems like an actual communist.
>>2591034She only got into democracy when it became clear she was getting the cold shoulder off the independent alliance. Which to be fair, was immediately.
People have to remember she was a Labour MP until last year. Your political consciousness is more developed than hers is. It b that way.
She very likely has a Reddit account. She’s probably got a mad leftbook post history.
It does look like to me, and bear in mind I’m a member, that she has eeked out the super radical position in order to latch onto a pre existing base and propel her own position.
Looks like she’s been good at that so far. If you’ve been around activist types, there is a million of them like this, only she’s managed to make it a thing.
>>2591131>Triggernomfags>Jimmy CarrYou're gonna have to tldr bud because I'd honestly rather neck myself.
>>2591131Carr is a psychopath who would perform for Hitler given the chance, and has already performed for both Kahanist Zionists and Saudi Royals
>>2591368Also apparently best mates with Linehan.
What news sources do you recommend? Both for international affairs and for UK news?
>the left lib idpol-poisoned feminist is literally the only major voice in the party that wants to nationalize industry
how did the UK even get to this point?
>>2591481The future is now, old man
>>2591485Are they really the future? I thought only like 12% of bongs said they'd even consider voting for the party
>>2591481>left lib idpol-poisoned feministA lot of buzzwords just to say you hate minorities
>>2591487>>2591489I don't hate women or minorities. I just don't believe it is a good thing when class issues are obfuscated by abstract identity-based rhetoric, especially when that rhetoric incorrectly identifies nebulous entities like "The Patriarchy" or "White Supremacy" as the root causes of social suffering.
>>2591481>>2591491>nationalize industrynot a communist demand either bud
>>2591496Of course not. I'm saying that British politics have swung so far rightward that what was once a cornerstone policy of the Labour Party for almost a century is now confined to the realm of protest politics.
>>2591481>wants to nationalize industry<left libAnon what?
>>2591500I used that phrase because she doesn't strike me as a committed socialist of any kind, revolutionary or reformist. Very similar in temperament and rhetoric to all sorts of left liberals who invariably abandon their most radical demands as soon as they get bored or hit serious roadblocks.
>>2591481Because the "progressive" idpol types were right all along, even when they were wrong they were right because their mistakes taught valuable lessons that lead them to their present, correct position. Everyone else inevitably has their brain poisoned by reactionary idpol as they make progressive idpol their real enemy, even if it means surrendering all their nominal policy aims. (See the perennial example of the SNP's social conservatives)
>>2591491You're in luck then because it's now 2025 and in 2025 everyone knows that patriarchy and white supremacy are just specific instances of "bad shit capitalism does which is why capitalism must die", the issue is only obfuscated to those who
want the wool pulled over their eyes - the sort of reprobates who'd actually vote reform, the stupid and those smart-but-evil enough to reason themselves into being stupid.
Sultana doesn't seem particularly committed to idpol or feminism anyway, she's just saying what social liberals want to hear because social reactionaries and their useful idiots left the goal wide open. Her thoughts on how to tackle patriarchy or racism are not going to be substantially more advanced than her suggestion to "nationalise the economy". >>2591496Talk about purity spiraling.
>>2591502I don't entirely object to your characterisation until the last line: left liberals of her type don't drop their demands. Their relevance waxes and wanes, but they rarely
moderate or
abandon demands, even if their emphasis shifts as everyone gets bored.
This isn't the worst din: ultimately, it's getting better results than the (nominally) more committed freaks at any of the "real" communist parties, both in terms of building support
and in terms of not adopting lines which are utterly untenable for a revolutionary organisation.
>>2591496it's not a literally communist demand but if you monopolize all industry it makes it far easier to communize it
Hasan Piker has done an interview with the UK Guardian newspaper. I'm not a fan of his but thought I'd share anyways, it's free on their website.
>>2591481Sultana is way less feminist idpol-ish than the Corbyn faction people anyway
>>2591583Not reading the Guardian
>>2591665>Also I have hope that they put someone who is a zealous anti-rape activist in charge of thisYou might want to order this now so it arrives on time.
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1872448047/fell-for-it-again-award-meme-embroidered>>2591655>Sultana is way less feminist idpol-ish than the Corbyn faction people anywayWrong. She is a wöman.
>>2590829All the overpriced french ones
>>2591878Nationalise the GAILs. Posh bread for all.
>>2591879Considering it is owned by venture capital and an avowed political zionist yes let's.
Is Your Party dead or going to be renamed?
>>2591899It better be renamed cause it sucks
>>2591902tbh all the cool and simplistic names are already taken.
>>2591918
>The UK is an advanced industrialized economy
what industry
>>2591901
I disagree with you on a lot but on this you are correct
>>2591918
>The UK is an advanced industrialized economy
Huh?
>>2591995
The thing about neoliberalism is our industry doesn't go away we just don't use it even half as efficiently because its profitable to do things elsewhere or import. Look at the water companies.
>>2592101Isnt she getting fucked in an indonesian prison?
>>2592101I don't expect anyone to believe me, in fact I think I did mention it once before, but I unironically went to school with her.
He real name is Tia Billinger, she went to Friesland School in Sandiacre in Erewash on the Derby-Notts border, and she was raised in a tiny Tory ass boomer village called Breaston.
Hope that serves as some evidence I'm not lying, don't know what more I can do than that to prove it.
>>2592214>Hope that serves as some evidence I'm not lying, don't know what more I can do than that to prove it.I don't know why us believing you would even be important to you.
>I don't expect anyone to believe me, in fact I think I did mention it once before, but I unironically went to school with her. Did you fuck her?
>>2592222Never thought of that pun tbf seen it's pronounced Bree-ston.
>>2592224>I don't know why us believing you would even be important to you.You make a good point
>Did you fuck her?No, didn't even know she was like that back then. She was kinda bitchy and mean girlsy, thick as shit, but not any more promiscuous than the other girls like that as far as I remember.
Farage deserves everything he gets but it's funny watching the machine turn on him. He was racist in school and told homophobic jokes in the past - who knew? Nigel Farage doing something like that, next thing you'll know it'll turn out that Jeremy Corbyn has links to bennism.
>>2592214>Name of Tia Billinger >Thinks she needs a name that sounds more like a pornstar tell us some things about her in school anon
Long shot but does anyone know what happened to britfa.gs? It was a UK imageboard with some unironic blairites on it but it seems to have died shortly after the online safety bill came into effect
>>2593371
Even gulags after 1950 paid their forced labourers. The Nazi unemployment program had people working for free, for free.
>>2593369move everyone except them out of the area, cancel all bus and train stops in the area, wait for winter to claim them.
>>2593369Rustication, send them down to the countryside, a long compulsory summer camp with socialist education, manual labour and army cadet training mixed in. Have jobs waiting for them when they get back. They need a bit of remoulding away from society so they can be reintegrated into it without so much of the baggage they're bringing in.
So apparently the UK is suing 4chan and 4chan refuses to pay.
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-communications-regulator-confirms-20000-4chan-fine/What is hiromoot's next move?
>>2593369see:
>>2593370>>2593419It is honestly such simple solutions, we have no business having this problem. Even the most decrepit social democracy could solve this.
every worker…
>>2594203a voter of the party
“But the question is, facing these plans, the main thing is not simply to unmask them, but to prepare against them; and there is only one way to do it, to prepare through the people’s war; Chairman Mao told us: one must prepare and prepare right now against an imperialist war and especially against a nuclear war. How will we respond? Only with people’s war, there is no other way; this is the main thing. Unmasking them is a part of making a propaganda campaign that shows their sinister and macabre plans for great genocide before the world, but this can never stop a war. Stalin said it clearly; these campaigns never stop a war, the only thing that works if we want to prevent a war is to develop the revolution. As the Chairman taught us: either the revolution prevents the world war or the world war sparks the revolution.”
(Interview with Chairman Gonzalo)
>>2594436Just fast forward me to the people's war so I can die gloriously for the revolution
Fuck this suffering
this is the scariest government of my lifetime
>>2591990Finally it all makes sense.
Corbyn, Sultana, Xi Jinping = dancing puppets on strings.
The huge hand above:
Ynys Mon! It's still hilarious that the only lgbt to speak at the conference was a pedo.
Your Party is a party explicitly for the Labour aristocrats, professional managerial class and urban parasites. Working class will prob go to reform
>Browning's social media includes the description "trans woman & proud lesbian." A number of women claimed that he had previously messaged them with sexually inappropriate comments, with screenshots provided as evidence. One of them claimed she was 13 when Browning wrote a sexually explicit message and told her he was 16.
>Another woman alleged that she "blocked that person so many times on various dating apps because they kept messaging me." And a third woman alleged that he tried to kiss her at school without their permission when she was just 13 and he was older.https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/your-party-platform-scots-trans-36341488>>2594767Your Party is the funniest shitshow ever
feels like a Ben Stiller movie from 2005
>>2594779No its cringe and sad.
>>2594785As a chagossian, I am actually happy to see the enshitification of Britannia
Was Mo Salah correct to talk shit about Arne Slot?
the majority of workers in this country today are "professional managerial class", the "traditional working class" are about 20%. shock horror, that's what happens when you live in a service economy!
remember that under british classifications, a nurse on 30k a year is PMC. yet instead of appealing to the actually-existing british workforce, everyone wants to LARP and pander to reform voters (who aren't even particularly strong reform voters!)
https://benansell.substack.com/p/british-politics-midlife-crisismoreover, professionals generally have views that most strongly align with their party. for a left-wing party, that means they're good. reform voters, meanwhile, are weird little outlier freaks relative to voters for every other party, most strongly predicted by asinine beliefs about how straight white men are the most victimized group in the world today while everyone else experiences positive discrimination.
https://benansell.substack.com/p/odd-ones-outthe aestheticized understanding of class in this country (both by left-wingers who ought to know better and by right-wingers who just want a racist handpuppet) is one of its worst qualities, and that's up against some strong competition.
>>2594767I was there they weren't the one LGBT person to speak why are you lying?
>>2594767> Working class will prob go to reform They also voted for Boris Johnson. How did that work out for them? Most class cucked nation on earth although at least like the yanks they stop voting for someone after the term they got fucked in. lol.
yeah reforms won
>>2594942Reform crash in contact with actual power will go worse than Starmer. 6 months and people will be calling for Farage's head.
>>2594942>>2594946 (me)
To elaborate; look at their activities in local government. They rode into power with Assad Majorities in some places on a platform of "cutting waste". The cretins didnt realise there was anything left to cut and their DOGE units were absolute failures, so now a lot of them are putting up council tax (purging members who refuse to vote for it in the case of Kent) or just running as was. So many reform cllrs have resigned, been expelled, or have shifted to other parties they can't even run basic functions (the fire committee in Kent can't even meet because Reform can't get anyone from their own ruling party to attend). Plenty of them have literally said "I'm bored I quit" as a response (this is what happens when you fill your party with the petit-bourgeois who want to be idle and make passive income while other people do the work having to deal with institutions that require time to shift).
Now it is safe to assume that the national party will be more competent in terms of power because of a larger & better talent pool with more funding behind it. However the fundamental issues of their vulgar analysis of the failure of the british state; "there's too much waste" is absolutely at odd with the material reality that we have one of the emaciated states in western europe. They will try to just dissolve the state and it will backfire on them (like cutting the winter fuel allowance did to Starmer but times 10). The new base of farmers will eat the gov when they try to fuck around to agricultural subsidies again. The things they will try to do around deportations will fracture their own base as some demand the introduction of an ethnostate, some just want "the brown ones gone", and some saying actually Tendulkar at the wine shop is one of the good ones why are you going after him (See America rn, whose deportation policies has managed to create a civil disobedience movement regularly challenging and even defeating federal agents will little to no repercussions from the state itself). They will likely do some cargo cult shit around trying to ban trade unions; which will lead to mass public sector strikes as they attempt to fire and outsource literally all of the state in the name of "efficiency". Their social policy, outside of vulgar nationalism, will also be incoherent as they are to the left of "gender crits" on the trans question and divide on if Onlyfans models are fit or if they should be sent to reeducation camps (classic conflict between libertarian petit-bourgeois and the moralist-intelligentsia).
It is poor form to rely on your enemy being incompetent, but there is little sign they won't be. The real issue about Farage being PM is the wave of radicalisation he will release from taking power (where the street right; many of whom are now turning against him, feel emboldened to engage in physical force politics) and his failure radicalising his base towards the emerging explicitly ethnonationalist sphere that is coalescing around Rupert Lowe, Tommy Robinson, Robert Jenrick, and Ben Habib (this itself is full of incoherent contradictions but actually has a uniting factor in terms of authoritarian nationalism as opposed to the more weather-veiny populism of Farage's Reform). Remember the Spanish Civil War started after CEDA governed and failed to arrest the rising tide of the socialists, communists, and anarchists.
>>2594971basically good analysis and important to remember: Reform isn't a radical break with lib-lab-con governance, it's the final dying breath of that mode of doing things. i have always been convinced by the notion that one of the big things here is that Reform is despite everything a British party. It is England-focused, and its main base lies there, but it's eaten the Scottish Tories (marginalized as they are, they exist!) and got some support in Wales too… there's a fair chance that whatever comes next will be a real English nationalism as the contradictions of Britishness finally become too much to stand.
Your Party uniformed cadres in every town and city.
>>2595009everyone who wants a DOGE should be deported for being terminally yank-brained, ideally to some horrible little island without potable water owned only because a british vessel ran into it 150 years ago.
the one good thing this country used to have was a smug sense of superiority to stupid fat americans, and now we're letting our own stupid fat englishmen make fools of us all. it's one thing for the nice smug refined liberals to steal things and file the serial numbers off until we're pretending we came up with the idea in the first place, it's another thing entirely to let our uncouth morons give the game away. if we're both just stupid fat countries we might as well become the 51st state and watch our GDP skyrocket to the dizzy heights of Alabama instead of wallowing in our own misery.
>>2594946Agree, this is basically the only thing keeping me sane about reform. That and the absolute freak-show of candidates and so on we're going to see.
Fuck sultana
>>2595176I just do not like sultana raisins man
Too sweet imo
Old EHRC head was a socially conservative Muslim, Baroness Falkner, who admitted she repealed trans rights based on her own personal religious views, and wrote in the papers as recently as last week bashing trans people.
The new incoming EHRC head, Dr Mary-Ann Stephenson, is a former TERF activist who has donated vast sums of her personal money to "gender critical" court cases.
Wes Streeting said today he's going to work with Kemi Badenoch to come up with a new trans policy - Streeting says he opposes hormone use on ideological grounds, and Badenoch was leaked using transphobic slurs and insults in private conversations under the previous government.
Also the head of the puberty blocker trials said he's going to refuse to do his job based on his personal ideological views too.
Estimated waiting times for a first appointment at a gender specialist clinic in the UK are now over 20 years. Britain remains in a small minority in Western Europe in denying self ID.
We live in a uniquely trans obsessed and transphobic nation. Why?
>>2595346>Estimated waiting times for a first appointment at a gender specialist clinic in the UK are now over 20 years.This is the only part i will attribute to pure disfunction that comes from even before this anti-trans ideological wave in the PMC class.
>>2594946What does that matter? Say they get rid of Farage, they'll put some even more evil fuck in his place for the next 4.5 years, that's more than enough to create the Bangerreich.
>>2595384I mean IDK I also think there's an element of the rags focussing on culture war because it keeps us distracted, not because they actually care about it
>>2595386"Distraction" is too passive I think. They want to police everybody, get them to think certain ways and try to manage the terrain. There's kind of a dual strategy in which the conservatives (traditional reaction) try to suppress it by saying this stuff is "destroying Western civilization" while the liberals try to co-opt it through symbolic inclusion and stuff like that. They don't want people being like those communists in that video.
>>2595386Their buisness model of hawking faux outrage translates over really well to identity politics and culture war.
Nobody in the Daily Mail offices is outraged about X, Y or Z when they put it to print, the two types of people is that they know it sells papers and that they know it furthers their political agendas.
I can't help but laugh every time the news has a segment on Ukraine and there's Bandera / Nazi symbols everywhere in shot that clearly the westerners either don't recognise as such, or simply think the viewers won't recognise.
Yesterday Channel 4 news had some segment on a Ukrainian musician and there was a giant Bandera flag behind during his performance.
>>2595009Its safe to assume anyone who is Reform is basically someone who wants to uphold the current speculative market going. They want "DOGE" to rinse more money from wealthy speculators to throw into their flaming garbage dump, so they're basically attacking anything that limits rich people's income.
>>2595346>Baroness FalknerChecking her Wikipedia:
>born 9 March 1955>She is married to Robert FalknerChecking his:
>born 6 April 1967She's a pedophile!
sultana sucks
>>2595346Because muslims will never accept trans people as normal people. Never,.
>>2595943
I was saying at the time to everyone who would listen that the EU is headed to dark places as nationalism is the only tool left in the bourgeois arsenal as the post '08 rot sets in as the new reality, the EU will be a naked den of fascists and it's best we get out now whilst we could.
>>2596000don't reply to the baiter
trans people scare me :(
>>2596176
say this in /usapol/ and you will be banned
>>2595720It has been decided, unironic fascism is okay as long as the form it takes is primarily directed against Russia.
>>2596192Neo Nazi groups in Europe, including ones that are "anti establishment" have always supported Ukraine. Look up the Misanthropic Division.
>>2596176
>Never seen TERF's actually "lose" a debate
Their argument in my experience is
<Men are rapists and paedophiles, I hate men so goddamn much, there's no variance with men they're all the same including queers I think we can admit that now, if a man is wearing a tutu and calling themselves "her" well what do we know about that man? They're a rapist and a paedophile, so when you critically analyse what they're saying you'll see it's just about raping me in the public toilets.
Now that TERFs have tried to remove the T from LGBT, how hard would it be to get them to advocate removing men from the term entirely, so it's just L?
Can we get them to start a movement where they claim to be "Taking the L" back from men?
>Like I've explained numerous times before, the UK has one of the most advanced, if not the most advanced feminist movement on earth
this really is such a funny line, just one of the most deranged things you could possibly believe. the last great feminist victory in britain (excluding "social conservatives being nasty to transgender people") was… getting women into the Garrick club. no, really.
the only thing about britain that's more advanced than elsewhere is its societal dementia.
>transphobic bigots if they refuse sex with a Transwoman
The cringe of expecting everyone to be sexually available to ones' self and claiming it to be oppressive and politically driven when that's not the case, is a cringe that transcends sexuality and gender.
The irony of course is cis-women seldom taking rejection gracefully, since they're conditioned culturally to assume men will have sex with anything that's offering it, thus to be rejected sexually can only be interpreted as a spiteful personal insult and/or caused by external forces intentionally trying to deny happiness to women who aren't thin enough, big-titted enough, short or tall enough, etc
>>2596236
I didn't say women, I said TERFs.
Like you cheeky cunt, how did you think flipping from
>TERFs never lose their argument
to
>Wah you're casting Women as misandrists
was going to pass unnoticed?
reminder that our local TERF was going out to bat for this landlord freak and accusing comrade Sultana of being a wrecker for thinking that he shouldn't be near a left-wing org
https://xcancel.com/AdnanHussainMP/status/1995146434598109346(but then he also said transhumanists are le bad so who can say whether or not he's a cunt)
Blog post: bad responses to rejection I've had
>She was drunk
<Sudden explosion of tears in public with lots of accusations that I now can't remember or couldn't understand at the time
>A different one was drunk
<Went through the motions of "You have a girlfriend?", "Sorry, you must be gay?", "Oh you're just scared then", who then thanked me for not taking advantage of them once they'd sobered up
>I Didn't have protection
<Swiftly left, showed up the next day to apologise for needing to turn me down but it was alright because she's quite the matchmaker and would recommend me to her friend, whose only description was that she's on the "big" side
>Just didn't fancy her
<Stalking, not like following me down alleyways or slashing my tires, but seemed to have informants keeping tabs on who I was talking to in public and occasionally texting me to ask why I was talking to so and so
>>2596326
You people are so delusional, 99% of people in the LGBT community think it's totally fine for lesbians to not date MtFs, but they don't have to go on and on about it either, like say you just don't like how black people look and don't find them attractive, are you gonna act surprised if you say 'no blacks' in your dating profile and people assume you're a racist piece of shit? Like what happened to basic politeness?
>>2596243Adnan Hussain also called out Islamist roadman when they start chanting the shahada in the streets, he is a consistently moderate and pragmatic MP, Sultana and her followers making this big of a drama over the milquetoast centrist in Your Party is not a desirable outcome
>>2596326
in terms of the question of "should Adnan Hussein be anywhere near this project?" the "/tttt/ cult, Zarah and her ilk" were right and you were wrong. the shibboleth worked.
if i accept your definition of feminism and grant your view by playing around with semantics a bit, it becomes immediately obvious that this is a bad thing: if a civil rights framework leads you to understanding that what women really need is the generic slate of left-wing economic and social reforms then it is in fact a class conscious framework. Meanwhile a "true" feminist framework leads you down the garden path of whining about the Garrick club, you'll forgive me if it's transparently obvious that said feminism is a bourgeois, socially conservative anachronism, the modern day version of demanding votes for wealthy women to offset those of working class men. i'll give you this: it does a good job of explaining why britain's "feminism" is uniquely strong: because britain is a uniquely class-stratified shithole.
so let me put this to you: is it a feminist victory that Rachel Reeves is chancellor?
as a more abstract point: the view of rights as zero-sum reflects a fundamentally conservative worldview. you see it in immigration, the rising status of ethnic and sexual minorities, and of course, on ruling class wankers not understanding that money given to those at the bottom will flow back up to them…
>>2596334What should've happened is for the party whip to issue a statement discouraging members from giving unilateral statements without discussion with the party leadership, and then do all these struggle sessions behind closed doors, which is what real parties do. But they choose the social media outrage path
>>2596334workers of the world disband, you might lose your moderate and pragmatic MPs!
>>2596338or they could've just
not invited a bunch of random MPs into what was supposed to be a member-lead party, leaving that as a decision for conference. for parliamentary cooperation purposes there's still the independent alliance.
>>2596247ive never understood why men wanting sex while drunk is fine while women wanting sex while drunk is seen as taking advantage of them
>>2596326
Why are you even bringing up /tttt/ lmao? You do know 4chan is not real life. Delusional.
>>2596340>Independent Alliance, that counts Adnan Hussain and other centrist businessmen from the South Asian Muslim community in its ranksThis is just shifting the problem rather than solving it. If party members can't accept these people in a party why would they accept them in a parliamentary grouping????
The fundamental problem is that for all the noises you fellow make in twatter, none of you can bring enough votes when it matters. That is why Your Party has to solicit the alliance of various conservative community figures who can actually utilize their financial and communal network in key constituencies. And openly shitting on them in social media does not bode well for the future of the party.
This is what political analysts in the Subcontinent call "votebank politics", and such politics always trend towards centrist one-size-fit-all campaigning which put focus more on cultivating regional alliances with lobbies and community leaders than mass mobilization, such as during the Congress uniparty moment from 1950 to the 1990s. Not ideal but that is the reality we have today.
Speaking of it is laughably ironic that UK politics now resemble Indian politics. And i'm not referring to people of Asian descent being politically active. The strategy taken by Reform which combined provocative marches with media trolling and alliance with Big Capital eerily mirrors the strategy undertaken by BJP under LK Advani and Modi, while the UK Left much like the Indian Left Front during the 2010s is forced into making highly controversial and fragile alliances between local minority businessmen and activists with their heads in the cloud. Ah, what goes around, comes around
>>2596341Same reason why middle aged men that fuck 20 year olds are seen as predators and middle aged women that do it are seen as funny and quirky, that's just how the world is. Maybe one day there will be actual gender equality but not today.
>>2596345>If party members can't accept these people in a party why would they accept them in a parliamentary grouping???? Shifting the problem is solving it. If Adnan Hussein is in Your Party, his views and those of the party have to be reconciled. If Adnan Hussein is an independent MP, Your Party doesn't need to have a stance beyond "do we want to stand down in his seat or not?".
Parliamentary groupings count for administrative purposes. This is precisely why the Independent Alliance was formed in the first place: A parliamentary group of 5 people gets more speaking time than 5 individual independent MPs. Tolerating them being part of a loose grouping so that you can get more speaking time
particularly if you can manipulate things to take their speaking time, say, by emphasizing that Corbyn's more likely to get on TV… is a big incentive compared to the zero-gains and many losses that come from trying to integrate them into the party proper. (Also, people just generally don't care for administrative minutiae. Did
you know Alba [who?] made a parliamentary group with an independent before the last election?)
>>2596350Fair enough, although my point about chattermouths in social media being borderline irrelevant when it comes to actual elections still stands
And don't start with the 'bourgeois electoral politics is worthless' nonsense, the Bolsheviks and the RSDLP before them maintained a very influential electoral mechanism because unsurprisingly the amount of people who want to cast a ballot for you is a good indicator of how much your party has influenced the working class
>>2596353For argument's sake: what if they're less irrelevant than they seem?
Obviously there are a lot of factors at play, but if you look at the 2015 > 2017 election, it's fascinating to see the age divide open up once Labour had a social-media friendly campaign (the milifandom meme aside). In 2015 Labour got 36% of the 18-29 vote, vs 32% for the Conservatives. By contrast, in 2019 they got 66/19 with 18-19 year olds, and ~62-22 with 20-29 year olds. By 2024 under the social-media disaster Keir Starmer, Labour are down to the low 40s with 18-29 year olds (vs 18 ref+con) while the Greens go up to the mid-10s. (They also don't do too well with 30-39, reflecting the fact we're getting on from 2017…)
I don't think people pay massive attention to all the details of discourse, but there's a devil's advocate case that it's all noteworthy background noise like TV once was, that social media will decide whether Your Party gives the general impression of an organization worth voting for or of an organization doomed to fail.
(An alternative model is that social media is irrelevant to electoral campaigning, but very relevant to recruiting and motivating activists, who then do your campaigning. Labour, after all, got loads of activists in 2017 and then spent 2020 onwards doing everything they could do stop being a mass-membership party…)
I have joined a new section of Your Party made up of people who actually organize in unions, community and tenant organizing and Anti Imperialism.
It seems that there is hope after all. Very likely basically going to disregard much of local branch and national politicking, the young people with the proper mindset seem to be here.
Boomers and trots and trot boomers bye by,e entering my Your Party hopium era
>>2596405>I have joined a new section of Your Party made up of people who actually organize in unions, community and tenant organizing and Anti Imperialism. so which sect is it a front for?
>>2596405Organising for Popular Power? Yeah they are really sound.
>>2596410If it's O4PP rs21 helped set them up but in classic rs21 fashion they lost "control" almost immediately (rs21 are explicitly against controlling orgs because a lot of them left the SWP because of that shit).
>>2596656Hungarian Imperialism.
A 6'5 cisgender female fetish model from Lincoln, Charlie Mill, has been going to the papers today saying about how she recently keeps getting kicked from bathrooms after being accused of being trans.
Weirdly though seems like she's just taking the story to the tabloids in order to promote her work, and doesn't actually seem to care about the implications of this.
Anyway I'm sure our resident transphobe will be jumping for joy knowing that she's won the culture war and now tall cis women and lesbians aren't even allowed to piss, just like trans women also can't. This is the only potential outcome of your stupid ass ideological crusade.
>>2596724FUCK ME SHE IS TALL
>>2597631Barton x Icke makes so much sense
Le Tissier has also become a chud
>>2597726Paul Cockshott was a part of a communist organisation that supported NI being a part of the UK, and is a part of one that is GB-unionist lmao.
>>2597746The passage of time, Bossman
Opinions evolve (unless you are an invariant Bordigist retard)
>>2597773I mean doesn't change the fact he is a CPB member now which is a unionist party. Not attacking him per-se its just funny.
>>2597819Labour gov working out how to best be strategically racist.
>>2597726Yeah but what does that mean? Of course Lenin didn't support the Russian Empire. These people just want a change of name? Is it all aesthetics?
>>2597726>UK breaks up into 4 capitalist statesWe won!
>>2597916Three of them likely abandoning the legacy of the empire and its undemocratic and imperially motivated institutions
all REAL communists understand that ULSTER IS BRITISH. the RED hand of ulster will never bow to catholocapitalist (((irish))) rule.
>>2597922Yeah and then building a US airbase the next day.
>>2597935the US already uses airbases in scotland and does military training in wales. why are you presenting the status quo as if it's a regression?
>>2597819I have the best and simplest migration strategy.
All women accepted, all men rejected.
And just like that, the incel problem will disappear in 5 years max.
>>2597935>>2597916>>2597915Disgusting mercantile, protestant, royalist English hands typed this
Stay mad, pedophile glorifiers
The Scottish Republic will be
The Welse Republic will be
The Mancunian Republic will be
Death to London
Death to Buckingham
We should put up big nets across the "mach loop" and the occupation jets will fly into it and crash on their tyrannical flights. Also, I heard the IRA had anti-air missiles. Imagine if we had a single S-75. We could shoot down so many Typhoons flying from the Llaniltud occcupation air base from a good position in Caerphilly (I'm thinking we fit it into the train tunnel when they shoot a missile in response).
>>2597976You are elbow deep in Nepalese blood
>>2597726i dont support the united kingdom
i support the british protectorate
>>2597949we enjoy licenses because we are civilised
>>2597949I agree with this, dog loicencing.
>>2597953honestly we could just make london/home counties area, etc. no mans land and split the rest.
>>2597953>The Mancunian Republic will be lead by Charlie Veitch under Britain First .
t. Manc
>>2597942If you think creating more Free States meaningfully matters either to their populations or the global south you are deluded.
>>2598288as a simple matter of administrative competence it does. ireland today is for all its flaws far less dysfunctional than britain, and it's one of the worse performing developed countries formerly under british rule. (it also, incidentally, has much better foreign policy.)
>>2597916Scotland is, by every measure, more left wing than England. If it went independent, it would be more left wing therefore.
Seethe and cope angloid, it would in fact be 3 socialist states, wales, ireland, scotland, and one England, still gay. Is what it is
>>2597847he isn't a CPB member and he supported ALBA which is a nationalist party
>>2598433Yeah Scotland is more left wing than England but not by that much lol. It would be lukewarm socdem at best.
>>2598490Better than the totally reactionary cesspit that is England.
>>2598498Maybe but that's no excuse for lying that it would be socialist
>>2598511makes the struggle that bit easier lad
fair play to carl, he's right about this. the liberal elitist does not see minorities as subjects, but as objects, the exact same way that a slave master does. the benefit to the country which zack polanski sees from immigrants is their servitude toward the native whites by humiliating tasks (e.g. wiping bums or delivering food). the general immigration model works like this by imperialism, which imposes a lower standard of living on the developing world to create a dependent slave caste willing to sacrifice their dignity for pennies. this is also why members of the liberal establishment are the truest reactionaries, since they feel no pretense about their class position, while the right struggles to articulate the codefied beliefs of liberals, just in an ugly way. this is also the case in the US, where the democrats have always been more effective on deportations than the republicans, who now resort to theatre rather than doing their job. liberals are simply the best fascists, while "real" fascists are dogmatic dorks, not realising that the reich won the second world war (e.g. operation paperclip, the EU and NATO).
>>2599346the context always left out of polanski's comment is that his partner is a carer. it's nowhere near as arrogant as it sounds absent that context.
the idea that he as a lib is worse than starmer-sunak-farage-etc is risible on the face of it. you can sort of bash together a case in America because Republicans are grade-A retards, but the entire british system is so reactionary that it rejects any attempt by socdems and libs to intervene, even when such intervention would shore up the system itself.
in the interest of contrarianism: we used to take poles in as cheap labour based on poland's lack of economic development, they used to send money back to poland. now they're all leaving because poland's richer and less of a shithole than we are. this would seem to support the neoliberal mental model of immigration over the imperialist one. (you might go "ah, but we go for even poorer countries…" but the reason we did that in the first place is that we rejected cheap eastern-european labour from the EU)
>>2599346Vote bank politics is the future of England and France.
>>2598435He literally said on a Q&A here within the last 6 months he was.
>Your Party Student branch does a food banking
>gets load of stuff
>one green member shows up so throws a bone
<Greenspammers in the comments telling people to join the Greens
Fuck them, fuck all of htem SWP level shit.
>>2599491i'm not sure you can draw an equivalence between commenting and rape coverups.
>>2599491Total Green Death
I do not understand why ecology needs a party of its own tbh. What next? A Feminist Party? A Muslim/Hindu/Carribean Party?
Greens are petit-bourgeois hipster wreckers and must be treated as such.
>>2599497I am comparing it to how the SWP tries to take over/claim credit for anything any anti-fascist does.
>>2599500Environmentalism is a class-collaborationist project so it makes sense they have a class-collaborationist party.
>green party moves left
>leftybritpol and a chunk of far left-twitter gets madder at it since it goes from an irrelevant fargroup to a competitor outgroup
i love human psychology
>>2599526They have started aggressively attacking an actual socialist project as a result of moving left. It's uncomradely.
>>2599527since your party allows dual membership it might not be as bad as it seems to tell people to join them too.
(iirc the greens don't allow dual membership, but their bluff could be called lol)
>>2599400>we used to take poles in as cheap labour based on poland's lack of economic development, they used to send money back to poland. now they're all leaving because poland's richer and less of a shithole than we are. this would seem to support the neoliberal mental model of immigration over the imperialist one.i dont quite understand the distinction. the dogma on this issue is that it helps the british economy, so its an unconditional virtue. the idea that foreign labour helps foreign countries is not part of the schema. its supposed to help the empire, like with brain drains; even lenin comments on this trend. the framing is then inherently imperialist, since its nationalising economic interest. neoliberalism also has this central concept, since free trade is a military or colonial construct. the aesthetics is obviously one where a black and brown underclass takes care of pensioners and deliver white people food. this is not covert; its the entire project. in the slave plantations of the US, a black slave might feed white babies from their breasts, or a master might rape a black slave to create a mixed child. there is no repulsion in a relationship of property. slavery is not segregated, since segregation only began (1877) after the abolition of slavery (1863). as paul mooney says, its not about race; its about ownership. liberals see minorities as pets that they own, which is why when they get out of line, they dont mind punishing them.
>>2599532>(iirc the greens don't allow dual membership, but their bluff could be called lol)FWIW i know a few people who are in both camps. If someone decides to push it on the Green end it will mean more activists for YP.
Is there anyone on here based down in Kent? A few of us from here do bits and pieces with local Trades Councils, counter demos and meet socially.
>>2599491I think Greenspammers might unironically turn me psychotic one day. The final straw to break the camel's back.
>>2599579I'm sorry anon but we are making the home counties illigal.
>>2599346It's not fair play to Carl and you don't have to give him anything, he is also an elite just even worse than PolansKKKy.
>>2599558under the neoliberal explanation, it should help both countries and the migrants themselves. britain gets cheap labour, poland gets money sent back from workers who're earning more than they would domestically - a positive sum game, all parties benefit. under the explanation that it's all imperialism, you're just brain-draining poland - a zero-sum game. since poland has prospered, it's not too hard to play devil's advocate for the neoliberal worldview. i don't care too much for "dogma" either way because it's just marketing. "immigration is good for britain" is an easier sell and a smaller target than "immigration is on balance the least worst option for everyone but boy does the world like to force bleak choices on us"
what i'm working towards in a devil's advocate sort of way is that while neoliberalism wasn't good, we're in something else now and it's much worse. an underclass of poor (but legal and legally equal to citizens) internationally mobile migrants isn't FALC, sure, but it's a defensible social structure against other possible models - for example: an underclass of poor (but illegal) migrants, an underclass of poor (but permanently second-class) migrants, or the final success of autarky giving us an underclass of poor british people and a bunch of people in the third world dying as their countries pass wet bulb temperature.
i am, for the most part, taking it from the point of view of the migrant's interests. (although an undercurrent is that britain's recent stupidity is also part of why it is poorer.)
i don't think "liberal" is a helpful category in british politics without further definition. you've got polanski, sure, but who else? what you're dealing with is a very different beast depending on whether your "liberals" are polanski only, polanski+sultana+corbyn, polanski+davey, or polanski+starmer. (and, in a more historical sense, whether blair, for example, is 'liberal')
to the more general point: everyone in a position of power sees everyone beneath them as (less than) pets that they own in class-stratified britain.
>>2599614how is carl elite?
>>2599615ive never heard a neoliberal frame foreign labour as mutually beneficial. even years ago, people like michio kaku were openly promoting american hegemony by saying that the h1b visa strengthens the empire. the idea is that rich countries "invest" in poor countries, not that poor countries develop on the backs of the rich.
>i am, for the most part, taking it from the point of view of the migrant's interestsbut these interests have the context of imperialism. marx identified this as early as 1869, with mass irish immigration coming from economic interest due to national oppression.
>everyone in a position of power sees everyone beneath them as (less than) pets that they own in class-stratified britain.its racialised, though. thats part of the structure. the cheap polish labour was also racialised. the irish labour of the 19th century was also racialised, etc. the position of the racial minority is that of a particular condescension from the elite, and so race and class intersect to create an absolute inequality in status.
>>2599603NUM Kent was always an island in a sea of reaction.
>>2599628Well he's rich and famous isn't he
>>2599628Yes, the framing is not mutually beneficial since first world countries (or really, just people who are nation state minded) are narrow minded and perceive win win framing as "these foreigners are growing from our back". But that doesn't mean that cheap immigration is bad in and on itself. (Well, to the extent that things can be good under capitalism…). Cheap labour, in theory, allowed for foreign currency to enter third world countries who badly needed liquidity while in the West it allowed a transition to a service economy for the citizens while migrants take over whatever jobs that still use the Fordist production line and precariat service jobs like food delivery. And whole Soygon of Akkad said that he'd rather England poor than overrun by migrants let us be honest, he will not be saying this shit if he has a comfy service job like being a professor while brown people deliver his food. In fact he might be a very antiracist liberal in that alternate world.
But that is only in a condition where growth is perpetual. When growth is declining and economy is contracting, you get whites being unemployed at precisely the same time cheap immigrant labour is expanding to save this collapsing economy, and since the average person is not smart they see A happening with B and think that A causes B.
>>2599615>an underclass of poor (but illegal) migrants, an underclass of poor (but permanently second-class) migrants, or the final success of autarky giving us an underclass of poor british people and a bunch of people in the third world dying as their countries pass wet bulb temperature.This is already the status quo in Britain. Immigrants are basically treated as second class citizens by whiteSS because they associated immigration with economic decline and social disintegration. And it's very hard to enlighten people who are suffering from competition-driven hysteria: i've been trying to tell PMCs that AI isn't a bad tool just because porkies used it to replace their jobs and i have hard time reaching these highly educated people, much less some guffawing lads without higher education
>>2599694Fair enough, it's just a bit of banter. Interesting stuff though.
People call bristol middle class, too, but it has the largest wealth divide in the country. We all have shit we tell ourselves about the rest of the country that probably isn't accurate.
Except in regards to london, then it's all accurate. >>2599711Oh, and i forgot to add, any improvements seen over the last decades are simply through the process of gentrification, which the council loves because it makes it look like they're improving the numbers when all they're doing is offsetting them to somewhere else by moving people away.
people aren't concerned enough that the basic principle of freedom of association is being (has been?) all-but abolished in pursuit of anti-transhumanist derangement.
>>2599639elon musk and donald trump are both extremely powerful billionaires, yet are still low status.
>>2599641an issue with migrant narratives is that we are not allowed to give them economic rationality and so they become contingent victims of circumstance. its like how every benefit scrounger has a sob story to justify why they want free money - free money is an end in itself; its self-justifying (e.g. between option A and B where A grants you free money and B grants nothing, A is not simply rational, but entirely ethical). the right obscure material reality by calling migrants an "army", rather than "scabs" or something to this effect. so i appreciate that you see the "mutual benefit" of cheap labour, rather than decrying its inherent injustice. a contradiction also exists on the right, where migrants are thieving bastards, but they also want to deny them legally gaining employment. its an outrage that they come here on boats, yet they dont want legal routes. its an outrage that they illegally work, yet we force them to do so. i dont know why economic migration is so frowned upon when its literally the best-case scenario. maybe some bums get wiped and abdul sends money home - a mutual gain, as you say. the issue i find on the left and the right is the denial of the minority subject; the rational agency of the other.
>>2599813wasnt that freedom abolished in the 60s when businesses were no longer legally able to racially discriminate against customers?
bleak bleak bleak bleak bleak bleak bleak
>>2599819constrained but not abolished. it is, however, abolished when you can't set up a non-commercial group without the state interfering with who can be a member.
Unison have booted their starmerite puppet leader and replaced them with Andrea Egan, who got expelled from labour
>She has promised to launch "a "comprehensive review of our relationship with the Labour Party", as well as oppose funding for Labour MPs and candidates who "fail to stand against welfare cuts and other attacks on our members' living standards and policies".
it would be very funny if they ultimately cut off funding and disaffiliated, although the vague wording makes me doubt that's the plan.
Sultanah will never lead this 'party' to even 5% of the votes. She is juvenile. Britain is lost, and that is to be celebrated. Anglo-saxons are incompatible with socialism/communism. Do not waste your time, Anglos. Go live in a hamlet.
>>2601204>Anglo-saxonsIsn't it the middle of the night for you 'people'? Go to bed yank.
>>2601204Mate I'm Norman-Irish
>>2601212Bless your soul. You will inherit Britiannia.
>>2601243Winstanley was a Pict, you ignoramus.
>>2601243In fucking surrey, no less.
>>2601304British fascist S after murdering Malagasy and Nepali people:
>>2601305Wow that was quick. I have a question, do you oppose Operation Kagar and support the liberation of the Adivasis?
>>2601308Fuck the fascist operations performed by the army against the naxalites
That said, the naxals have to review their strategy and objectives
It feels theyre in limbo for far too long
What is your opinion on the matter?
>>2601308Not responding from his obsession over you, but i genuinely liked finbol's video, which he criticizes the inaction of reformists and other revisionistic communist parties.
About nepal, the problem of maoists is they were not there or in the situation to liquidate the revisionists, so you wrongfully criticized other marxists/campists that talked about you supporting the nepalese """revolutionaries""" but you also failed to provide a revolutionary alternative, which led to nepal to descend from revisionism to fascism.
>>2601320>obsessionOh cmon John Bull it’s just a bit of online shit flinging
What’s the point of anonymity if one cannot act like an ape a lil bit?
>>2601321Sir, i agree with you wholeheartedly, unlinited genocide on ziomerica and terfbongland
>anonimity onlinebecause we are on leftypol doesnt mean i should respond cordially or reasonabely with some effort, if reddit removed all that upvote, account and karma shit as also shitheads who stalk you across subreddits to use that agaisnt you, i would like it
>>2601326
>I have no problem with the Brits tbh. I am racist only towards Americans.
we're such a nothingburger it's hard to hate brit's in the modern era, like i would question what was wrong with someone's head if they spent any time at all thinking about this place, nobody here even wants to be here or think about this place any more than they have to. the americans only hate us as a form of deflection.
The Met Police and Manchester Police have both confirmed they will now arrest people for using the phrase "globalise the intifada".
They're using the Bondi attack to claim it's a call for terrorism in the UK.
>>2601383well done to the adventurists once again
<inb4 conspi-retards saying it was set up by Mossad precisely for this outcome Apparently the government will set out formal plans for devolution in Cornwall next year, similar to that in Wales, Scotland, NI.
The government had hinted it was very likely in November but comments by a Cornish MP in PMQs today seem to confirm the details will be hashed out next year. There's no transparency on whether it will actually be implemented before the end of next year though.
Anyway more broadly speaking, what is your opinion on regional devolution? Is the balance about right? Scrap it? Do you want full independence?
Total Cornish independence. Kernow will nationalise all the touristy fish and chip restaurants.
>>2601448Unconditional support to the Cornish Celts against Anglo-Saxon debauchery
COMRADE S WHERE ARE YOU
>>2601319>>2601545Full support to the CPI(Maoist)
>>2601424This is really a really exciting development for Cornish nationalism, which is the socialist position.
>>2601585This is using statistics misleadingly. It's not including all the ways where Wales is left out from spending that it contributed to. For example, Wales paid for HS2 but we aren't getting high speed rail ourselves, and in fact our rail network has serious issues that have been left unresolved (foremost of which is that the railway does not extend all the way to Aberystwyth from South Wales so you have to go all the way around taking hours).
>>2601802>>2601802I am quite offended that you had to ask me the question. Did you expect me to support the anti-communist military crackdown by the Modi fascists?
>>2601802High speed rail from Bristol to Pembroke and Aberystwyth now.
>>2601245He was from Wigan you dumb cunt
>>2602126
>INCEL SPASTIC
topkek tbf.
>>2601585>scotland want to leave the UK just so that they can join the EU Asinine English arrogance.
England = gay
i could literally batter any englishman
>>2602290You too, sweetheart.
>>2602140A Pict from Wigan you knob
>>2601822Ive been seeing this manc-london new rail for more than a decade now
Lemme know when it is actually operational
HS2 could only have been designed by Londoners, because the real issue has never been travel between North and South England, but East and West England. It takes like 4 hours to get from London to Manchester already but it is 8 to get from the South West to the South East, and it is bad in the North as well from what I understand. As for Wales, there is not a highway from South Wales to North Wales so you have to go into enemy territory to get there the fastest way. And I'm not going to even start with Cornwall which is completely isolated from everywhere else and there was not even an attempt to connect it, the motorway only reaches Exeter in Devon and everywhere West of that is basically living in the stone age.
>>2602806The Cornish people have to go the DPRK route. There is no other way.
>>2602809Yeah unironically, because right now it is only tourism. Reopen the pits, collectivise the sheep farm land, establish CornRail, and construct MiG-21 factories.
>>2602813For once, I agree with you, Maoist S.
We work better as a team.
>>2602921He was a pict man who moved to Wigan you muppet
How hard is it to understand?
>>2602921This is a huge simplification.
There were Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Frisians. Some Romano-Britons just assimilated to Germanic culture and some Saxons assimilated to Roman culture for hundreds of years.
>>2602949Picts and Scot’s did not assimilate.
English are basically Italian/ German and it shows
>>2602998English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish people have become a single entity and only LARPers act as if these are separate, distinct peoples anymore.
Having a funny accent does not change shit.
>>2603025>Germans, Austrians, are a single entity and only larpers act as if these are separate, distinct peoples Yeh, okay hitler
>>2603029My original post was a shitpost but your reply does not make sense. Germans and Austrians ARE a single people.
>>2603032They have different cultures and histories.
>>2603025your argument winds up self contradictory: if 50% of the Scottish population and even more of the Irish population are just LARPers, this clearly distinguishes them from the (overwhelmingly) majority English population, who do not themselves have an independence movement worthy of the name
>>2603035The only oppressed nation on the British and Irish isles is the English people. And yet they take all the crap from the slimy Irish and dodgy Scottish.
An English Liberation Front is badly needed.
>>2603034So do North and South Italians. And yet
If scotland becomes independent I'm going to scotland
>>2603039Picking the least self-integrated country in europe is not a great point…
>>2603065You have deranged race fantasies. Get help.
>>2603032My post was not a shitpost you are Hitler
>>2603085Go easy with the bottle
>>2602262but thats literally the entire scottish project:
leave the UK, join the EU
no other plans have been proposed
>>2603025there is no such thing as a "british" ethnicity, no.
>>2602601i cant find any evidence that he was pictish.
all sources claim that he was indeed english.
>>2603038Every nation within Britain is oppressed by its own ruling class
except maybe Wales, I don't know enough about Wales TBH and those ruling classes have distinct compositions reflecting their specific national conditions. So far as there's cross-national oppression it's usually facilitated by the ruling class of the oppressed nation.
>>2603097If the scots want to join the EU I wish them eternal misery
>>2603070
Members can join there but they will be treated as overseas. The party supports "irish self-determination" (in essence a reunified ireland). This has pissed off a lot of Socialist Party sorts who want the right to organise in YP in NI as a party for some reason.
>>2603089easy on the meth amphetamine, hitler
You brits earned my respect with Brexit. Eurocucks are still defending the EU and arguing how the EU is progressive and 'internationalist'.
>>2603309as opposed to britain, which surrendered this idiocy ideas for the much smarter position of becoming substantially poorer for no material gain whatsoever either financially or in terms of the dynamics facing any would-be leftist government. smart stuff!
>>2603365britain is in a much better position after leaving the eu
lol is this guy serious
Materialist explanation for brexit?
>>2603388too obvious to explain, liberal
>>2603382General reaction to Liberal Technocracy following its failures post-2008. The constant decay Liberal Technocracy oversaw 1992-2008 was fine because the economy was growing but its inability to respond to crisis was too much. We are still living in the vacuum it left.
>>2603393>reactionDoes that make EU and "liberal technocract" progressive?
>>2603430Then why are you calling it a reaction? Is brexit reactionary or progressive? Or are there neutral historical events?
>>2603382>Materialist explanation for brexit?2008.
>>2603443You fucking retart.
owen jones status?
>>2603456No explanation given. Thank you, leftypol.
>>2603443Newton was accusing contact forces of being reactionary when he said every action has an equal but opposite reaction.
reactionary =/= reactive you muppet
>>2603468So brexit happened mechanistically is what you are saying?
Britain is over
>>2603477Whatever that means
>>26033822008 is too easy an explanation for brexit
here's a quick and lazy explanation
1. internal contradictions of thatcherism, which take all the worst british nationalist and imperialist tropes (not the same thing - nationalist shit was made up by labour post-ww2, imperialist shit predates ww2) and slap them together with neoliberal economic reform that runs directly against the british nationalist and imperialist projects. (the former because you're obviously subsuming the british nation into a multinational trade bloc, the latter because britain is supposed to be the prestigious center of the trade bloc, not its 3rd to 5th most important member and a tedious latecomer at that.)
2. the complete collapse of competency among the british ruling class and institutions. (its own topic for further study): blairite europhiles playing up anti-european sentiment instead of trying to dampen it down, cameron gambling on offering a referendum (if he hadn't the most likely outcome would be what he wanted, a continued coalition with much-reduced lib-dem presence!), the BBC constantly deep-throating farage, better toget– sorry, "stronger in", thinking they could re-use the scottish referendum playbook (which saw independence go from 30% support to 45% support) on an issue where the polls were
at best 50/50.
3. a well-observed general and international trend towards polarization between young educated liberals and leftists on the one hand, and old under-educated reactionaries on the other. for all the appeal of the "left behind" narrative, living in a shithole constituency is a far weaker predictor of brexit vote than either age or education. (which is obvious when you remember that people vote, not constituencies: a young educated person can still be poor and live in a shithole, an old uneducated person living in a shithole can still be rich.)
3 is the hardest pill to swallow because britain's left has traditionally been anti-EU (of course it has, labour founded the british nation and had to get real paranoid about self-sufficiency, and the british left loves their emotional support not-even-social-democratic party) and the standard "left behind" narrative combined with the existence of the (sub-"labour-for-independence"-relevance) lexit campaign almost make it feel like the left got a W. you can even smudge it together with Corbyn in 2017 to insist that no, this really was the left's moment… provided you never look at any of the data showing Corbyn's gains generally came from remain voters, not leavers (who similarly moved to the tories), 1 is the most interesting specifically about brexit, and 2 is the most interesting overall because it's relevant to literally every single issue in this country.
full disclosure: i enjoyed watching leave win. i am guilty of #3 myself. it is only with hindsight and further reflection that one can admit that on the whole, remain voters are more fertile ground for the left than leave voters. it helps that with the benefit of hindsight we can see that brexit has delivered a bleaker pace of decline rather than the realization of Benn's alternative economic strategy, making it hard to even believe that they were "wrong" to vote remain. my present position on the EU issue itself is: this is discussing what make of piano to put on the titanic when the ship is already at such a jaunty angle as to make piano playing impossible.(thank your stars-and-stripes i didn't give you the long and in-depth explanation, eh?)
Thoughts on the hunger strikers? What do you think will happen?
The only type of person who is an english nationalist is the type who pisses black sludge due to ketamine induced bladder failure
remember looking into the cornish language once and one of the big youtube channels about it is ran by a white supremacist, zionist, neo-fascist american jew living in wales
would be cool if ordinary people started using the language. once a language has solid enough footing people like that will have 0 relevance, but while it remains a niche interest it leaves room for such types to fester.
>>2603772It's essentially a hobby since it was officially extinct for 100+ years.
What's the deal with the hunger striking?
I don't want the protestors to come to harm and obviously this is all drawing attention to their case, but why are their supporters all talking about getting them medical attention?
Isn't the whole point of hunger striking that the threat of your death, and the government's fear of the political/media consequence, will lead to your desired outcome? What sense does it make to go to hospital?
>>2603882The point of hunger striking (both historic and contemporary) is to show the inhumanity of the rulers/state. The state refusing prisoners medical attention is a part of that process. (Also even the Irish H Block hunger strikers were actually taken to hospital them cancelling ambulances is beyond evil).
>>2603882even if you don't have your aims met, getting attention and creating pressure around them is a viable second-tier goal. killing you would be very bad PR, but "the government is willing to let this person die by actively refusing to give them medical attention" is bad PR too.
going to hospital could set up morton's fork: they can force you to eat, in which case they're barbaric, or they can let you not eat, in which case they're barbaric. or maybe they eat then and check out having gotten some more attention to the issue.
(and the secondary issue of how little traditional press coverage the hunger strike got, all things said. the silence is so loud that even Alistair Campbell feels compelled to comment on it)
>>2603570Have to agree with this tbh. At most 30% of the country care about Palestine to a substantial degree, disproportionately "the usual suspects". A lot of zionists, reactionaries, and general small c conservatives will be like "glad they died." It worked with the H-Block because it was big news in Ireland but it simply isn't the same here.
>>2603911>The state refusing prisoners medical attention is a part of that process. (Also even the Irish H Block hunger strikers were actually taken to hospital them cancelling ambulances is beyond evil).Happy to be proven wrong, but weren't the Irish hunger strikers in 1981 taken to the prison hospital? Not a public hospital.
>>2603912>but "the government is willing to let this person die by actively refusing to give them medical attention" is bad PR too.>going to hospital could set up morton's fork: they can force you to eat, in which case they're barbaric, or they can let you not eat, in which case they're barbaric. or maybe they eat then and check out having gotten some more attention to the issue.Sure but doesn't getting hospital attention become somewhat silly? They're choosing not to eat.
One medical intervention is to force feed, which of course has a lot of ethical issues associated with it - especially on the presumption the strikers have capacity in making their decision to go on hunger strike.
There are other medical interventions to help, such as giving vitamins and fluids through the vein. But doesn't that somewhat defeat the point of a hunger strike? It would still be a horrible experience but you'll be kept alive. They'll have gotten attention for the issue but it will also be met with accusations it has cost the hospital (and taxpayer) a fortune.
If the strikers would refuse the medicines via the vein, I'm not sure what is hoping to be accomplished by getting to the hospital in the first place. It's no more barbaric than the strikers just remaining at the prison to starve.
Agreed about the lack of press coverage
>>2603756And nobody believed me but i knew they still had giants over there.
>>2604396You're right about the general instability, but I prefer the Austria Hungary comparison for the UK. It's a very weird multi-national state, almost an anachronism. It might even be weirder than Austria Hungary because, from 1945 to ~1985, it successfully built and then obliterated a single national identity.
Listen to Churchill's speeches, he speaks of England much more than Britain, and even when he does mention Britain it's usually clear he means the empire, not the island. The famous Norway debate remark by Leo Amery as Chamberlain fell? "Speak for
England, Arthur!"
Scotland and England remained distinct nations (against the will, it must be said, of many eminent Scots who'd have much preferred to be "North British") until after the war, when a British national identity (as opposed to a British imperial one) and British national (as opposed to imperial) economy had to be formed. Thatcher dismantled the material base for the national identity even as she played up the flag-waving and blurred together the young nation and the dying empire.
As always: for more, read David Edgerton's Rise and Fall of the British Nation.
>>2604461Interesting and informative post. A Mancunian Republic would be nice.
>>2604463>A Mancunian Republic would be nice.Your Mancunian Republic is being run by Britain First.
Never met an English man who wasn’t a gay lord
Just been to England. Absolutely huge amount of males getting shafted in the battyhole by other males
>>2605292It's a LARP, this guy is actually from Philadelphia. Still very funny though.
I hate everything and everything in a way I can't ever articulate to another human. All I am have is this burning sense of unfairness, betrayal and hatred but I'm not articulate enough to explain or know it to myself, let alone anyone else.
>>2605643Why do you feel that way though exactly? If you feel that strongly it must be worth trying to articulate the specifics of it even if you feel you can't get it across how you'd best like.
In any case I'm sure you've heard it before but the best thing to do is turn that energy to literally anything productive, reading theory or whatever you can achieve in the real world politically is good and all, but if you're really struggling mentally even just finding a good hobby or working out can help a little.
Fwiw, I'm disabled & trans and live in a shitty post-industrial backwater east midlands former pit town of 3000 people in the core of Reform UK territory. But just being bitter or depressed and hopeless about how shit life and our country is right now will just lead you to spiral downwards, into either rage or apathy. You need to find a way to channel it into something or you go insane.
>>2601188>>2601203The CPB lowkey supported the right-wing candidate and Morning Star generally gave her positive coverage, lol. They really are Labour for people who're afraid of winning.
>>2603530Uh, where is class analysis?
>>2605734CPB are really just a club for reformist, social democrat boomers who would fit right in as Labour MPs, realistically most are too moderate even for YP. The British Road to Socialism is nonsense that isn't fit as toilet paper.
They've alienated and lost the vast bulk of the youth wing by refusing to budge their ossified stances on social topics, social progressivism.
Was browsing through content they've published about their latest congress, and while I don't mean to be ageist the congress was 95% people aged 40 - 80, and 5% millenials.
Couldn't find even a single Gen Z / under-30s member at all, i'm sure some exist but none willing to commit enough to turn up to their biggest annual event or have a photo taken.
Zarah Sultanah dooms Britain to failure.
>>2605502Shut the fuck up he is a 19 year old obese alcoholic from South Manchester.
England with London vaporised is actually a very nice country with very nice people. Can't you just turn London in one big containment zone, sort of a Gulag?
>>2604527Oh so you're a bitter scouse
>>2606035No I live here and I see people fucking cum themselves over Charlie Veitch its just what's gonna happen at this point lad.
>>2606054>after libs, libs who turn libwaow
>>2606070It's the most cringe shit ever, trying to replicate ulster unionism (actual orc ideology). Idk how they ended up like this, maybe they hate Cardiff so much they'd rather have London be in charge and then Mi5 found a way in.
>>2606098I keep hoping that you will start a Naxal-style movement in Sherwood forest one day.
>>2606033Thank you! that's what've been saying!
Irradiate london and the general surroundings (+home counties), wall it off, bing bang boom, we can all learn to smile again, jobs a good un.
>>2606203Every Brit is LARPing something from somewhere.
>>2606463Hmmm. It's almost as if we're all performing all the time, anon..
Why is israeli nationalism permitted to be softened by labeling it 'zionism'?
>>2607237All nationalism is permitted to be softened by labeling it "patriotism".
>>2607260yes but it's not called that by wrote is it. If you are in opposition you call them nationalists, so…. ipso facto ergo hithertohenceforthwith…
>>2607260i've always felt that patriotism was the more inane of the two. Nationalists usually have some underlying theory or ethos to justify themselves with. It can range from grotesque nazi shit, to simple xenophobia, to national liberation, to the two-track mind of the SNP ("we should be a normal country" plus "look at this spreadsheet"), but there's always a little bit of an underlying idea to it. Patriotism shaves off the hard edges and winds up having nothing to say: "you should be proud of being British because the anglo-saxon skull is phrenologically proven to be the best equipped for governing the lesser races" may be bollocks, but it's a lot more reasonable than "you should be proud of being British because… we're British."
>>2607278you can and should be proud of anything you've had a part in creating, we don't need to start measuring skulls to say that.
The word 'nationalist' has a very well maintained stigma, and I don't see why the israelis should avoid having that pinned on them for their actions and beliefs over Palestine.
>>2607281i would take it as a personal insult if you accused me of having a part in creating the country we live in today.
>>2607299maybe you should get cut into dog meat and buried in a trench somewhere? Might change your fucking tune then
>>2607304surely if i was cut into dog meat the sensible way to dispose of me would be to feed me to dogs, not to bury me in a trench.
>>2607306What do you think of mainstream news sources referring to the israelis perpetrating violence in the West Bank as 'settlers'? A bit weak tea don't you think? They aren't settlers, they are marauders.
>>2607307it's bad, but it's not even in the top 100 worst misdeeds of the MSM in running cover for Israel's genocide (and this isn't because it's a minor offense)
>>2607308but here's the thing
ctrl+f zionism (6 results)
people are playing by their word games and need to stop
>>2607331That's exaggerated. No way Labour falls so low.
>>2607335You say that but describe to me the natural base of Starmer's Labour, where do they live? In what numbers?
>>2607352what are you talking about now?
let me guess israel has a right to defend 'herself'
>>2607409it's done on purpose
>>2607416they could dredge out the rivers and ditches to reduce flooding, or build a (1) reservoir, but they don't do that either.
>>2607409>>2607416I dunno about 'on purpose' but more likely due to massive public sector budget cuts, the tabloids (and therefore politicians) are obsessed with the notion that there are tens or hundreds of thousands of public sector employees whose jobs have no actual function, while I'm sure that might apply to a small number of people, what should we expect when staff levels are cut? Of course things will be missed and mistakes will be made.
>>2607335That's first past the post for ya. They only got like 35% of the vote to begin with. Though I agree that when the actual election happens, people will not 'protest poll' in the same way and will flock back to established parties. Don't get me wrong Labour will still get annihilated but I would be really surprised if they didn't manage to hold on to at least a couple hundred MPs.
>>2607406What part did you have in 'creating' any kind of British greatness, if indeed we can consider that to be a thing that existed? Hell whatever country you live in it's highly unlikely you had any real part in making it notably better or worse unless you're some kind of exceptional person.
>>2607443if 80 years ago is ancient history, water under the bridge, then guess who needs to shut the fuck up about it. Until they do, you know what my answer is.
>>2607437there is logistical incapacity, then incompetence, then there is malice. dont make excuses for cops, who would arrest you for opposing israel, but will let out paedophiles early. its all part of the plan.
>>2607443but if you are looking for a more personal and direct answer, I am a stonemason and I build and repair ancient style walling that forms the character of many places across rural Britain.
>>2607443learn another language if you hate britain so much ffs
>>2607450Well I didn't actually say it was ancient history just that you had nothing to do with it. Some things from 80 years ago still hugely impact the world today.
>>2607453I mean there is a certain amount of malice in continually cutting spending, but I don't agree that these prisoners are being let out 'on purpose'.
>>2607458Okay well that's great, I hope you enjoy it, however that still isn't the same as if you were the one to build Hadrian's wall in the first place. You're not participating in Britain's glorious past, you're just maintaining some of the physical remnants of it. Furthermore, if you didn't work that job, it would fundamentally not be noticed on a national scale, it's hardly like one less stonemason would collapse all of our ancient walls.
>>2607464Are you saying you don't hate Britain? It's still all I know though, where else would I go really? Look do you really think the average left wing person wants everyone in the UK to suffer because of some dumb historical bullshit? No, we want the best for everyone, but just recognise that hugging the flag gets in the way of actually making the place better.
>>2607470if theyre not being let out on purpose, then its pure bumbling incompetence and there needs to be mass sacking, especially of the management. the spike in the chart shows a striking anomaly which coincides with whatever nonsense labour have concocted.
>>2607471why would i hate britain?
>>2607472Well not saying it's not incompetence and people shouldn't be sacked. But we might as well ask that it rains magic beans while we're at it.
>>2607474Idk because of our plummeting quality of life and the fact we seemingly can't achieve anything as a nation? Just look at the COVID response or HS2, Britain isn't working. We should abolish it and try something new.
you folks do not hate Britain. You hate London.
>>2607487London is fine, the City of London within those gay little roman walls is the real issue
>>2607490t. cockney provocateur
>>2607491I like Grime and The Clash too much to condemn the greater London metropolitan area
>>2607493sad to see treaterism has infected Britannia too
>>2607478>plummeting quality of lifethis is the fault of traitors against the nation. as the revolutionary maximilien robespierre once said (1792),
<I speak this fatal truth, [the king] must die because the nation must live.https://revolution.chnm.org/d/324thus, the identity of the nation with the state is essentially asymmetrical. the british "people" have not sought to make things worse, yet a ruling class has. this sort of distinction is given fullness in a class character, where if one confuses their class identity with that of another (i.e. rulers and subjects; state and nation), he determines this identity to false ends. adam smith (1776) and friedrich engels (1843) had the same criticism, where the "wealth of nations" was falsely perceived to be that of the capitalists (e.g. profits), as opposed to that of the workers (e.g. wages), and so "the economy" has a false measure (e.g. GDP). for example, if the economy was smaller, but people didnt have to worry about rent, would the nation be richer or poorer? these questions are relative to their object. so, when we measure the nation by the activities of its ruling class, paired with the marginal errors incurred by the system, we have a false identity, i would say. the people (i.e. "the nation") is not the state, like how "wealth" is not profit. if we confuse the two, we measure success by the profits of our richest billionaire and measure politics by the failures of our least politician.
>we should abolish itsure (you can repeal the acts of union, 1707), but what is the next project? i would in fact say that the british nation is inherently imperial, and that with the disbanding of the empire, it has ceased to function, but what takes its place?
>>2607470>shifting the goalposts>multipost shotgun replyyeah I'm thinking jewish. Not exactly a fast paced board is it? You can do one post per reply surely?
you don't even need to do a captcha here which speaks volumes for posters doing spam replies
If you haven't read "the rise and fall of the British nation" by David Edgerton you should be banned from talking about Britain
>>2607629that's called 'gatekeepng' and is a form of manipulation
>>2607629Read this read that
Bomb Westminster and Buckingham or shut the fuck up and let me enjoy the footy
There is no left in Britain.
If you haven't adaptated to the reality of Empire in the 21st century, you're living in denial. The future is one of continual reaction, starting with Reform. The NHS will fail, labor markets will be oversaturated, and GDP growth will stall.
There is no hope.
>>2607638I would say by equal merit there is no 'right' in Britain. Farrage is an israeli stooge just like the rest of them. Same as it ever was.
Why don't we replace Christmas with Marxmas?
Socialism is impossible in Britain because you can’t redistribute the rain
>>2608389100% the Northern Kids are calling them "pants" now. We may need to do a cultural revolution in this country to arrest this.
>>2608568>cucktin>sabotaging the westPick one
>>2608389the problem is reversed here, you've got people living in white gated communities swearing blind that diversity is our strength and that curry is the greatest invention in human history/
>>2608609Curry
is the greatest invention in human history
(But southeast asians do it better than south asians)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_Irish_Communist_Organisation/leftybritpol/ in party form
>The ICO undertook an investigation into the development of Maoism, and concluded that it was not a suitable model for an anti-revisionist group. The Chinese Communist Party had supported some aspects of Nikita Khrushchev's "revisionism", and then been dishonest about its past positions>The ICO line was the two nations theory – that the Ulster Protestants were or had the potential to become a nation in their own right,[8] and that Irish Catholics could not determine the whole of the island of Ireland as a country. >In the February 1974 general election, Clifford proposed advocating a vote for the Conservative Party over the Labour Party, but this proposal was defeated, and instead the group produced a pamphlet mildly supportive of Tory policies, without calling for a vote for any party.>The ICO/B&ICO was strongly anti-Trotskyist,[2] and it also opposed the Marxism of Rosa Luxemburg and Che Guevara.[25] >The B&ICO opposed Welsh nationalism[31] and Scottish independence [32] It also strongly supported the state of Israel, in contrast to the anti-Zionist positions of much the radical left of the time.[33]>Unlike most of the left, the B&ICO supported the Khmer Rouge regime and opposed the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia.[34][35] >The B&ICO also believed nuclear power and nuclear weapons were beneficial to humanity, and were against the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.[42] It also praised Wojciech Jaruzelski's imposition of martial law in Poland.[43] >When the Falklands War broke out, the B&ICO supported the UK war effort on the grounds the UK was more "progressive" than Argentina.[45] >In tandem with these campaigns, the B&ICO also urged a hard line against the Provisional IRA; it opposed the 1981 Irish Hunger Strike.[47] Its publications also opposed the campaign to free the Birmingham Six, insisting on their guilt.[48] >It also took unconventional positions, such as defending the British Monarchy[50] and, most controversially, opposing the UK miners' strike (1984–1985).[51]>One writer associated with Athol Books, Dr. Pat Walsh, has denied that there was an attempt to exterminate the Armenian people by the Ottoman authorities during World War I, arguing responsibility for their deaths rests with the British government >>2608657>Dr. Pat WalshBased retard is right in his old age though:
<It appears that Germany, now released from US supervision, has once again become very dangerous for Europe.>https://drpatwalsh.com/2025/12/06/germany-rewrites-its-history/ >>2608657Cockshott was a member of this btw.
Any comrades in Preston here? Got some info about a strike demo.
labour isnt in support of labour
conservatives arent conservative
its actually really difficult being a young gay male in England when it seems that our rights are going to go backwards very soon.
It makes me nervous when going on grindr incase somebody is on their logging all of the twinks or something for when reform come into power and you start to see the gay bashing en masse
i know a lot of my friends in the community of local gays who like to have anonymous sex across england are saying the same thing. Actually its sort of made more anonymous hook ups more popular again, because people are afraid to show their face on dating sites and such
anonymous gay sex in England was already a massive thing as well. In most villages in cities in England there is usually a spot all the young english gay men go to in the hopes of being penetrated but i can see it proliferating more and more
the problem is, when happens when reform come to power, once they've got rid of the immigrants and the trans it will be the gays next. They will go for the lesbians last obviously. But the thing is people don't even realise the gay community in england is very large, perhaps even in comparison to other countries in the UK. We might be the gayest and it goes all the way to the top. If gay culture is attacked it will be a huge blow for everyone
all my friends are djs, going to raves, artists, etc. Zack Polanski for instance is gay and hes the biggest thing on the left right now. A young english gay man
Basically what im saying is a lot of young english men are gay and i think we will be oppressed very soon and it will be a big blow to the UK as whole
>>2608955>our rights are going to go backwards very soon. What makes you say this
>>2608957reform getting bigger and bigger
>>2608955why would reform promote homophobia?
its only second to the conservatives for being the most progressive on LGBT issues. labour is the one currently putting the clamp down on trans women.
>>2608955you've immersed yourself far to much in yank politics.
Conservatives even are always going on about how they're more open for gays than labour, it's more common to meet tory gays than labour gays for those who attach the two things. This is a non issue in this country, maybe in the 90's/early 00's we could have reverted but i think it's to late now for that, everyone, working class people at least, probably middle class too, knows someone who is openly gay in their friendship circle or family.
>>2608958reform like da gays. It is a great way for them to dunk on the 'islamists'. "chicken for kfc" and all that cringe
>>2608788political polling should be illegal
also what kind of question is that?
>are you racist?get real
>>2609087they don't ask if you're racist
(but they should, then you get funny polls like the one where french people are plurality "yes")
>>2609151of course migrant dense areas such as city centres aren't going to give a shit about migration. The issue here is the 'champions' of diversity are from white gated communities. I'm not going to mention names because fuck e-grifters, but I'm sure you know the type.
>>2609259even if your stereotypes were true, a lot of white diversity champions still have to share the tube with immigrants so you're talking bollocks. london's full of all the worst stereotypical migrants and also the only part of the country that approaches a first-world standard of living.
>>2609324>that yummy deliveroo food>first world standardLondon is a shit hole
>>2609409AH yes, more arguments like 'you know who i mean, i can't name them for reasons though'. More like this.
>>2609419I gave a perfectly well reasoned argument for not naming names, e-grifters gain energy from gossip
>>2609407i'm prejudiced against people who get food delivered
just go to mcdonalds it's not that hard
I cannot apprehend the mental retardation that causes one to pretend to believe that ireland or Austria are not "really" independent because they're in the EU. Particularly its strategic deployment: the EU apparently strips your independence, but the WTO and UN are fine.
Maybe it's all the shit in the water.
>>2609747The UN is just a get-together party.
The WTO does put some restrictions on sovereignty, but not enough to strip you of your independence.
Being members of NATO and/or EU, however, means giving up national sovereignty to the benefit of the
Internationale de la Bourgeoisie.
One has to be a special kind of stupid liberal to not see that. Even rightoids saw that EU destroys sovereignty, albeit they see it from a resctionary perspective.
Hence, the EU-exit movements of Europe, if successful like Brexit, will be historically progressive despite being carried by extreme reactionaries (like Brexit). Any communist with atleast half a brain should understand this clearly.
>>2609087Lmao reminds me of the fish and chips geezer who went "how can I be racist, me wife's from Sri Lanka!"
>>2609750The thing with the EU is it's already repeatedly proven itself to be impotent, see Hungary or that time in the 90s when it tried to punish Austria for letting fascists into the government only to have to back down. NATO, I grant and should have noted because it's the most egregious contrastive case. (e.g. Ireland is in the EU and not NATO, which is a damn sight better than Britain being in NATO but not the EU.)
Any nation with the will to do so can defy the EU with ease (which is why I'm skeptical it represents any real surrender of sovereignty. Particularly because, as we've seen with EU-exit movements,
the decision to leave is a matter for member states instead of for the EU.), but defying NATO is another thing entirely. You don't even have to be a member for that to be a risky business.
The EU counts for almost nothing either way. It has to be the dampest squib in geopolitical history. To imagine leaving or joining as historically progressive is to imagine that it'll be more than a footnote in the history books.
>>2609437>i'm prejudiced against people who get food deliveredSame but generally for people who want to be waited on. After the revolution if you go into a cafe you will return your plate and cutlery to the counter, you shall go and get your own cup of tea. Nandos will have a ticketing system where they call you up to grab your plate and you take it back when finished.
>>2609842Aufhebung restaurants. They will become kitchens with attached dining areas, kind of like modern fast food. You will order online and receive your meal on a tray, and you will have to clean your own table at the end of your meal like a responsible socialist citizen rather than leave it dirty.
>>2609863rare agreement with S.
You will feast at the People's Canteens or you will graze grass in the kolkhoz, treatler.
>>2609842tbh i think i'd allow waiting, but only in tiny establishments. if someone wants to do their stardew valley fantasy of running a coffee shop and taking the coffee to your table, sure, whatever.
yeah yeah yeah petit bourgeois blah blah blah. i resolve the contradiction by recognizing that such a setup is really premised on entertainment or intimate sociality, rather than food production and distribution. a cafe, freed of the need to provide an economic return on that premise, can then rig things up so that the "cafe" is really just the hobby of a planning auditor who works from home. i mean, they're gonna be making coffee anyway, might as well serve a friend too. if they want to pretend they're engaged in a past form of social relations while doing so, what does it matter?
(ironically it quickly follows that the
best way to implement this "petit bourgeois" fantasy is, in fact, socialism. under capitalism it's doomed to fail because the economic proposition simply does not stack up.)
this isn't even my fantasy, my fantasy is a socialism that appeals to the sort of people who daydream about running a cafe but never take practical steps in that direction. >>2609747no country is independent lol
everything is either in the american or chinese empire
>>2609747Damn so European countries need national liberation again?!. When can we get to the socialism part!!
>>2609863So socialist socialist eateries are basically just what mcdonalds are in Japan? I get what you're saying but if we want to truly make a socialist eating experience we need to aim at something much more communitarian than that.
>>2610024>a truly socialist eating experienceor just let people do what they want?
>>2610021You could get socialism a long time ago if your retarded people wanted it.
>>2610024Keep your Greasy Irish Fingers out of my plate.
>>2610024I guess the really radical thing would be to abolish food preparation specialisation entirely and just have community cantinas where people take turns cooking. Though I think once the obvious issue of the servants is gone, there might not be a problem with people working as cooks and trying to get rid of mess halls might be kind of unnecessary and inefficient until higher stage communism where there wouldn't really be work specialisation or jobs in the same way. Right now it is probably more efficient to have cooks. Though this is all for the people in socialism to work out, we can only really know what is practical once we try it out after we gain state power.
>>2610230The decision of the European Left to sanitise Muslims completely and treat them like innocent children will backfire spectacularly in a few years.
The Left of course should not join the (far) right's racism against Muslims (or any other group) but some limits should have been set. It should have been clear that not all reactionary behaviour can jusy be swept under the carpet of 'culture tolerance and diversity'. Anyway, time will tell…
>>2610255KKE keeps winning.
>>2610230>>2610255the assumption that it's muslims doing the heavy lifting here seems open to question. labour's muslim vote dropped a lot at the last election thanks to their pro-genocide stance. frustratingly, i can't find good poling data to quantify how much but the fact that 2024 saw the most Independent MPs elected since 1950 off the back of gaza suggests it was substantial.
the minimum-change plausible reason i can offer is that other non-muslim minority voters also skew more socially conservative and more labour-voting than average, but without the salience of the gaza issue to scare them off.
>>2610230seems fake, no way gay daughter is just as bad as gay son
>>2610260I dont know much about the KKE. Can you please tell me their stance on this issue, comrade?
>>2610276>i can't find good poling data to quantify how much but the fact that 2024 saw the most Independent MPs elected since 1950 off the back of gaza suggests it was substantial.If they polled independent/Your Party voters with this question it would probably be at least 50% LOL
>>2610255>>2610230>IT'S MUSLAMICS!!!!Muslims don't vote Labour anymore you dumb cunts.
>>2610255People were saying this in 2003 meanwhile christian nationalists are going to imprison you for offending Israel wake up and smell the coffee you imbecile.
>>2610352Now you are just making shit up Your Party voted to enshrine trans rights lmao.
>>2610358These sort of deal-breaker policies are very counter productive. There muse be surely a way to separate social polices from economic governance
*must
new keyboard, the fingers do not like it
>>2610389If you truely believe that join Galloway's Workers Party. He is actively trying that strat, see how far it gets you.
>>2610389Political-economic governance is determinant of social policies and indicative of the stage of development of (bourgeois) society, it is not the converse.
When seen from this perspective, the future of this island is Reform. Reactionary forces will coalesce under the defence of a populist political demand vested with the authority of the bourgeoisie.
History is vaulting down the tracks. Its would-be opponents are simply turncoats who, hailing from a strata of British social life which enjoys the petty privilages of today, will find their vote bought out in favour of it when the time comes.
The future of this island is one of Fascism.
>>2610423Lord almight where to start with this.
Firstly, you aren't a member of the proletariat.
The means of production doesn't really exist in this country, we are a 'service economy℠'
the bourgeosise are your mum and dad renting our the spare room.
And the political opponents are bought and paid for influencers.
Also 'fascism' is simply the abuse of power that is not limited to 'right wing' politics.
>>2610539>Service economies exist without an MoPlmao fuck off retard
>>2610543>MoPthe only MoP I know is this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNiJrqKLajkPlease explain in a more proletariatal way, thanks
>>2610554Walter Benjamin sounds and looks jewish
>>2610557You're beyond retarded.
>>2610561I say that because 'Benjamin' is a classicaly jewish name, he is talking autistically about nazis. and his ears are lower then his eyesockets.
What more can I say?
>>2610568For thinking the term bourgeoisie is a read in for your own parental issues
>>2610570for *my* own issues?
I'm an orphan for a start, but that is not relevant.
It's more of a generational thing
>>2610575is that your rapper name?
>>2610574>>2610577What are you even doing in this thread? Fuck off back to 4chan
>>2610581>gatekeepingI will just lurk for a while, I know your type
>>2610584>I know your typeMarxist? On a Leftist imageboard?
>>2610588Publishing a book doesn't seem very proletariatalistic to me
>>2610539Lmao. There are so many levels to this retardation my head hurts.
>>2610557>Walter Benjamin sounds and looks jewishAnd?
>>2610539>>2610539>The means of production doesn't really exist in this country, we are a 'service economy℠' Pseud over abstraction. Most imported goods into Britain are consumer treats because it isn't economical to produce those shitty spinney light toys for kids in a developed economy. Most fundamentals for civilisation existence; construction materials, processed alloys, chemical products et al. are produced domestically; along with the services required to utilise them (which should be obvious, you can't "Import" freight transportation). Sure raw resources (outside of agricultural production) are all but absent but apart from them and basic precursors in the industrial process most of it is either produced or refined domestically. Just because you have a bullshit email job doesn't mean everyone else does.
>>2610618if you were playing drums, and you really got a kick out of rhythm and drum technique, then wouldn't you be beaming with joy to slam one of these out? People are weird
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFkzRNyygfk >>2610695GCHQ's ChatGPT having a meltdown as per
>>2610612just yet another coincidence I spose, nothing to see here
>>2610699I think we're beyond that now
>>2610554>Walter Benjamin<An eclectic thinker who combined elements of German idealism, Jewish mysticism, Western Marxism, and post-Kantianism,Yeah he was a retard
Just like Adorno, Marcuse, Horkheiner all the culture pseuds
You've got to look sad because the music is sad okay?
>>2610706>Benjamin>Idealism10/10 bait
>>2610711Stormfront may be more your speed my man
>>2610714get with the times man, teledildonics is mainstream now
>>2610557>Walter Benjamin sounds and looks jewishMate you look and sound like a fucking nubriton, lmao.
>>2610618>Most fundamentals for civilisation existence; construction materials,We have a big problem wrt some materials, timber basically all comes in from the fucking Nords and the buthurt Balts. Steel for construction is mostly EU. Nails, staples, screws, bolts, nuts and all that is all from China.
We do make our own bricks and cement for the most part though.
>>2610700Sorry I am confused, could you elaborate please?
>>2610695The fuck are you on about?
Regardless, prefer the drum beat of the below.
>>2610725Yeah I mean steel is a big one but that is more a particular feature of British Thatcherism. Also some means of production we are actively trying to seize!
The real take is that nature of industrial production is one of managing decline vs implosion which isn't an area of class struggle the left has failed to adapt to (as compared to the previous position, where it was strategic profitable industries being fought over between worker control and capitalist control). Also the British left's failure to organise in the non-industrial service sector is one of our biggest failures and a yoke upon our neck we must either grow strong enough to carry, or break out of entirely.
>>2609863ayo sage, whatever happened to your matrix?
>>2610765lol this ain't my first rodeo, rabbi
>>2611112I am not a rabbi????
>>2610769> The real take is that nature of industrial production is one of managing decline vs implosion which isn't an area of class struggle the left has failed to adapt to Isn’t this ‘’exactly’’ What was going on in the 80s? Thatcher and the miners and etc.
>>2610769You can’t organize the service sector, that’s why it’s there in the first place, you don’t think they thought this through?
>>2611511and whenever service workers unionise, the "left" calls them a bunch of blue-haired transhumanist treatlerites who should get real jobs.
>>2611512How is organizing service workers going to accomplish? Wow you have the people’s cafe and the people’s TESCO it’s not like these things can just get shut down with little to no consequence
>>2611512Take it you haven't you met them then? Nothing worse than some middle class anarchist that's got a job in Wetherspoons for the summer trying to lecture actual trade unionists on how things should be done.
>>2611545>mddle class>working for minimum wagegive your head a wobble, mate
>>2611549
youre the type of "leftist" i was talking about btw
>>2611547Lol clearly you haven't met them then lol. They get jobs in places like Wetherspoons because they think they can organise them and then they get told to fuck off by everyone they work with.
>>2611551How many work places have you organised?
>>2611554
>you can only be a real revolutionary if you work in the mines and dont have an education
stop boring everyone with this bollocks
This thread is so funny british people sound so stupid
>>2611564
so you are admitting being uneducated? sound.
now let the intellectual elite speak, peasant.
>>2611558Revolution going to be led by middle class kids working in hospitality during the summer then?
>>2611568how does working at wetherspoons make one middle class?
>>2611549
more than half of young people now go into post-secondary education you stupid wanker.
>>2611558Lol never said working in spoons makes you middle class. I was talking about middle class adventurism. Some Trot or Anarchist group will have the bright idea of organising hospitality workers, cock it all up and then just resort to wrecking. The AWL did actually try to organise Wetherspoons workers with a Spoons Workers Against Brexit campaign.
>>2611567<t. Overeducated inbred fucking nubriton.>>2611571>Die you fucking Jehova’s witnessTopkek.
>>2611590
>he thinks he can outsource his revolution to the third world just like he outsourced the production of all the temu tat in his house
lol
>>2611594Know the exact type. Friend who is an academic in a STEM field is a self declared anarchist and has read almost nothing of Marx.
Absolutely nothing in common between them and people working minimum wage jobs, yet deludes themselves with the bourgeois fantasies of metropolitan establishment radicalism.
Treatlerites is such a good word to describe these sorts of people: they will engage in political activity only in so far as their common lot is secured through the surpluses of imperialism, irrespective of their beliefs.
So long as the sweeties flow, there's no difference between the Greens or Reform, irrespective of the anti-materialist gender shroud which both parties supporters regurgitate into their daily life
>>2611877and how many uneducated people have read marx? lol
>>2611930the irony that a concept intended to 'unite the workers' gatekeeps them from it.
>>2611930Not the point made.
>>2612017there is no point at all; its a personal grievance against university students being projected as a political orientation. this can be typically understood as anti-intellectualism; a tendency amongst reactionaries.
>>2611900this is conceptual stretching beyond what a treatlerite originally was.
the original treatlerites are more like dems/labourites who (a) explicitly recognize that their treats are downstream of the status quo and therefore protect it, and (b) take reactionary stances when the supply of treats is threatened. (e.g. supporting union-busting because they're personally inconvenienced by a strike.)
if someone's voting Corbyn to get more money so that they can have a treat for once in their life, this isn't treatlerism. even if such a worldview requires all the exploitative apparatus of treat production, the person neither recognizes this fact, nor takes a reactionary stance in light of it. it is at best treat…welsism.
>>2612069It isn't, it's an indictment of the state of affairs for political organisation within capitalist society, namely that the individual is the centre piece for bourgeois freedoms irrespective of one's orientation.
Seethe on
>>2612084The status quo is the political establishment. So long as Your Party remains hitched to electoralist reforms as a way to bleed concessions from the bourgeoisie whilst failing to establish a revolutionary body, the more it simply legitimates the British imperialist state.
These people are treatlerites; they want incremental policy changes without the commitment to the overthrow of capitalism and all that attends it. Notions of wealth redistribution presented by their leaders become fly traps which draw the politically uneducated back into the failing cycle of bourgeois representative democracy.
Their ultimate drive isn't for the abolition of wage slavery, but merely its incremental adjustment by offering watered down visions for social cohesion under PR narratives of 'community' and 'trust'. It is bourgeois socialism proper.
Unfortunately that ship has completely sailed: British society is now spiralling in a circle of political reaction which cannot be undone.
>>2612218I accept your concession
>>2612222concesion to what? youre literally making no point, bumbling from one boring pontification to the next, all cause of some pathological resentment against uni students.
>>2612227What big wins have you and uni mates had organising in the service sector in the last decade?
>>2612227Clearly isn't, I couldn't give a shit if someone's been to university. It's the state of political life in Britain wherein the false ideological premises of bourgeois society are accepted as the norm, and supposedly socialist causes are fundamentally anti-materialist and anti-historical.
I made reference to knowing someone like that as they best encapsulate the idea presented wherein one's own opinions are nothing but a form of consumption of an identity. These individuals do not want change, least of all because they cannot conceptualise any coherent doctrine for it.
>>2612222you have restated my thesis without engaging with any of my points. you offer a definition of 'treatlerite' that covers 99.99% of the british public.
i may as well declare you a treatlerite as well because at the end of the day, i know you've got more than bread and water in your kitchen. the only novelty you add is a desire to look clever on leftypol.org.
>>2612235your arrogant desire to feel superior to others blinds you to the possibility that they are, in fact, acting in good faith. that perhaps someone who consumes the identity of a revolutionary does so because they
do want a revolution but are naive and (glibly) purchase the wrong product.
which is an easy thing to do when the wrong thing is slickly marketed by people who are for the most part equally acting in good faith, but mislead, while the "right thing" is marketed by arrogant people who insist that you're hitler for trying, hitler for not trying, hitler for not being them, and (for grovelling insufficiently) hitler when you try to be them.
what went wrong in my life that i'm sitting here at 2:18am correcting you instead of sleeping comfortably. why am i here and not on twitter or discord. the bleakest thing i can say of you is that i know better than you and i'd still sell my soul in an instant to be anywhere but here except /pol/. >>2612283>. why am i here and not on [stormfront] or [ironwaffles forum]Nta but cmon anon. That shits even worse for you than this place.
>>2612283>i know you've got more than bread and water in your kitchenHilarious, I have fuck all. I've been sanctioned by the DWP and have run out of cash. I've been scraping by eating 60p packets of biscuits per day (1600 calories) for the past week and a half and have been facing homelessness for a while now.
>covers 99% of the British publicBecause fundamentally it is. Engaging in meaningful political change means fundamentally having the correct grounding in theory; these individuals desire change only insofar as it extends life to their vision of a society forged from the spectre of capitalist society. They cannot desire nor work towards a new society because one cannot be imagined; only the socialists, and above all, only those of the scientific socialists are capable of reaching towards this. The rest are landlocked behind credulous bourgeois ideals regarding housing, wages, food, etc as commodities. There is no impetus for the radical overthrow of society but merely a reconciliation with the powers that be for an adoption of those values which can be said to converge with the interests of the capitalist class.
The idea that good faith should redeem the ignorance of would be revolutionaries who cannot stomach basic notions which were inimical to the mass uphevals led by the Marxists of the 19th and 20th centuries is pathetic; I will not apologise for labelling an anarchist or another socialist a wrecker because they attempt to platform their repulsive absurd and cult like dogmas which fly in the face of critical thought and smear basic scientific and historical thought with their neanderthal-like obsessions.
There is no left in this country because, fundamentally, there has been no development of the class basis for its achievement. There is no proletariat, not in the sense that there are no workers, but in the sense that there is no contemporary mobilisation which is not already precluded by the existence of the workers themselves. The ends of the workers movements have become a form of concession striking, in which unions exist to merely renegotiate bargaining contracts for teachers, doctors, rail workers, etc. There can be no left without the supercession of these forms of activisim, which are the principle of political life in Britain, because they necessary act to starve any movement of success - radical or no.
I detest 99% of this nation because they are complicit in their own subjugation. Rentier extraction, the battery farming of the elderly for profit, the imbecilic repetition of the guiding mantra in daily life, across all spaces, of profit; there is no resistence to it. There is simply a resistence to the general constriction of wages organised behind placards which obscure the real relation between labourers and the system of production. The fact that leftistst on this board likewise don't find it sickening when some moron dons the colours of their chosen supermarket sold ideology, in a sense donning a clown outfit, and attempts to speak on behalf of the opressed is a problem. It is a stupidity which infests every corner of British society. One which promotes a bigotry in progressive beliefs whereby the basic right to an opinion is silenced by the most vapid bourgeois thinking, repeated ad infinitum for the pleasure of those who can afford the goodies that capitalist life provides.
I don't care what you term them, if they cannot hold their own position in relation to the political and economic system from which they profit in their own exploitation and those of the global proletariat through power imbalances, then I do not give one iota of a shit for their opinions. Nor yours for that matter.
>>2612288i'm not so sure it is. i've been here the best part of a decade and it definitely peaked towards the beginning. people who've wasted their lives on discord and twitter have friends and enemies and all the trinkets of having actually lived a social existence with other people. for similar time investment, all i've got is the smug knowledge that i created a long-dead injoke or two and i did so without the prospect of any individual recognition for so doing (which when you think about it, makes me a purer soul than any stakhanovite, who may have been tainted by a wish for recognition…)
the only caveat i'll add is that i'm always comparing myself to lib-left losers, not to rightists or to the weird sub-set of yanks who have unremarkable political beliefs like the need for zoning reform but inexplicably go out and shoot a famous person one day.
>>2612318i may give you a better reply later, but for now compulsion takes my hand:
>Engaging in meaningful political change means fundamentally having the correct grounding in theorythis simply is not true. it will never be true.
Pont du Gard was constructed 2000 years ago by people who thought the pecking of chickens could forewarn the outcome of a battle and who hadn't so much as the concept of zero, and it stands to this day. the left is screwed for want of practical experience, not for want of theory.
>because they attempt to platform their repulsive absurd and cult like dogmas which fly in the face of critical thought and smear basic scientific and historical thought with their neanderthal-like obsessions. >a bigotry in progressive beliefs whereby the basic right to an opinion is silenced by the most vapid bourgeois thinkingthis is secretly about transhumanists isn't it.
>>2612320>this is secretly about transhumanists isn't it.It's about the totality; every position one can take is immanently replacable by the next. Whether it's the apalling mentally stunted racism of so called progressives in their childish idealism or the stark hatred of foreigners from the most right wing. There is fundamentally no difference between these postions except the guiding antagonism which propels the ruling class in its position vis-a-vis their respective false ideological bases. Whatever the topic, what is licensed is a mode of political thought and existential being which is antithetical to a material basis for freedom, and what is enshrined is a near-Fascist like doctrine of implicit civic censorship (the volk) based on idealism. Whether you are pro or anti trans.
>this simply is not true. it will never be true. This is the guiding principle behind scientific socialism, Marxism-Leninism, and is key to the 11th thesis. Revolutionary theory constitutes a revolutionary body and vice versa. The idea that your'e arguing the contrary is pathetic.
>>2612329i am not being funny when i say your first paragraph is undialectical. i am being even less funny when, on reflection, i come to suspect that it flows from sublimating clinical depression into theory.
a subject with which i am intimately familiar.centuries of revolutionary theory have precious little by way of revolutionary bodies to show for themselves. even the obvious success cases strike one as arising more from being in the right place, at the right time, with the right organization, than they do to any kind of real theoretical purity. whether it's the NEP, or the pirouetting between "social fascism" and the popular front, or the fact the USSR ultimately imploded while China did the theoretically-ugly but pragmatically necessary things to survive and grow, they all gesture in the direction of practical experience trumping theory time and time again. once you've done the right thing, then you can sit down and puzzle out the theory behind it so others can learn from your experience.
you can, of course, reconstruct medical theory from a human body. you cannot yet, however, reconstruct a human body from medical theory. why should revolution be any different?
>>2612336On the contrary, it's one founded on the basic notion that commodifcation necessarily entails substitution for efficacious reproduction, and that as one's social existence is consumed by the individual in capitalist society so too are their beliefs and convictions.
There is no real antagonism between these seemingly antithetical positions as either lobbies according to the dictates of that class from which they are derrived. It is a spectrum of false ideological beliefs, irregardless of the underlying material reality.
I will state it again: the majority of this country do not want change in the meaningful sense. You cannot convince me otherwise when one of the most predatory systems to date, elderly care, allows the old and infirm to lie dying swimming in their own shit because the for-profit system will never be challenged. it is a system of open bribery in which the conscience of the proletariat is bought off in exchange for their continued subjugation.
>>2612348let's say you're right and that people don't want change:
so what? on what planet do you live where things happen in these isles because a majority of the public
want them to?
the era-defining failure of british state management is its refusal to bribe the proletariat. (pedantry, at this point, obliges me to point out in passing that you claim here that the proletariat is bribed, but claim in
>>2612318 that there is no proletariat.)
the thing that may finally destroy the quote-unquote labour party for good is its failure to bribe, its failure to even pretend to bribe, it being the first to remind you at every turn that there is no money for bribes: not for the proletariat, not even for the professional managerial class. its solution to everything is more crackdowns and bans, the stick and not the carrot.
even in non-monetary terms, a labour government committed to social liberalism and a rhetoric-heavy action-light anti-genocide line could probably assemble a minimum-viable "bribe", and they will not do even that. they will not do it because they do not give a damn what the public want and they certainly do not give a damn what the
labour voting public want.
your depressive theory papers over a much more depressing reality:
nobody likes the status quo. it is true that nobody
really wants particularly radical change, but almost nobody is being bought off either. the public exist to be subjugated, disciplined, and excluded, not bought off. even the notion that we live under a
for profit system is wildly optimistic: elderly care, water, electricity, gas, rolling-stock companies, buy to let landlords, and god knows what else, are not
really for-profit firms in a productive sense. they are
badly run subsidy junkies sucking up rent from the public for doing little of value and doing it poorly, desperately throwing bribes at politicians in the hope that politicians can discipline an unruly public. they owe more to a strawman of the late soviet union than to anything you'll find in even a half-functioning european country.
even the people who run one set of these bastard firms hate the incompetence that comes from interacting with the others. this is a society and an economy creaking at the seems, desperately trying to delay a reckoning of one kind or another. it takes a certain optimism to imagine that we've merely the american problem, the australian problem, of living under capitalism and the profit motive.
blaming the public for their own subjugation is the easy way out. 69 million guilty men are suffering? (perhaps more? perhaps our view generalizes to the entire first world, treatlerites all.)
good. god is in his heaven, all is right in the world.
far better to believe that than to accept that this country is deeply anomalous even by the standards of capitalist hellholes. far better to share the blame across 69 million people than to accept that this country is run by-and-for a small and shrinking number of people and that everyone else is a helot.
>>2612235Everyone who goes to uni is a debt slave. A student loan is a mortgage for you mind and they won't allow you to pay it off until you are 60. And guess who likes to make money from money lending?
>>2612594Parents who do not save for their kids uni fees and let them take student loans should be beaten on crossroads.
>>2612596what is the price tag for a meal ticket these days? 15k per student? That's a lot of money. I think perhaps it is better to recognise that not everyone benefits from uni level 'education' and to reject tony blair's ruthless monetization of them.
£ducation
£ducation
£ducation
Merry Christmas to the charming people of Britain ♡
>>2612601just looked it up and it is capped at just under 10k *per year*. That's an insane amount compared to what you can glean from youtube for free
>>2612671Sell a good rug?
>>2612671Now, you my call me a 'conspiracy theorist', but hear me out.
Two of the most iconic groups in history.
Both wear double denim.
Thoughts?
https://youtu.be/l482T0yNkeo?list=RDl482T0yNkeohttps://youtu.be/UvjLgjtJKsc?list=RDUvjLgjtJKsc >>2612704Why are they serving cunt
>>2612608Bit rude to come here and say that then.
>>2612671Yet to find out what the CPGB-ML actually
do.
>>2612833https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ9usrpAPaoThis is not simple coincidence, the devil is at play
>>2612985Why? I dont get it
>>2613034None of us here are charming
>>2613038you have beautiful eyes when you are seething
i wonder if i can ask the NHS voice therapy lady to make me a yankee. 90% of british accents are grim and the other 10% are fine but not for me.
>>261304990% of accents are NU-LE
>>2613050you got me, i have no idea what that means
MLE is the actual term, but I find that to be offencive
>>2613038I love the people of Britain. Granted, I spoke to only like 5 brits in my life, but they were all jolly, kind folks.
and an extremely beautiful chick, so off Im biased >>2613053oh. i used to dislike that because it felt forced and fake on TV 20-odd years ago, but nowadays i don't really care.
it's odd that (to me at least) english accents from different parts of britain used to feel forced and foreign, but yank accents never did. yank accents are just what you have when you're on the telly or the computer.
>>2613071uhm say something negative about israel real quick there chief.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ9usrpAPao >>2613078surely
letter from america >>2613103it literally does not get better than this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMCRazqItiMMerry christmo, have a good one
just woke up again, fuck's sake it's still Christmas
How come there is no footy on boxing day
>>2613683because it's for boxing, footy is on footy day
Remember in 2017 where for a brief moment it seemed like things were looking up and there was some kind of momentum behind improving things in both your personal life and in politics but for the next 3 years the entire apparatus of governing this country was turned to destroying that possibility politically while you failed to take any initiative personally, and now you're back where you were in 2016 but older and with more regrets
haha
a LOT of adverts for the army lately…
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