/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2596775
> I guarantee you within our lifetimes there will be someone who isn't a Kim as general secretary in the DPRK
even now, the executive head and prime minister are not from the Kim family

>>2596776
>Yeah well I think China is currently dictatorship of the bourgeoisie political class due to the party’s rigid control.
The party is not bourgeois though.

>>2596784
Yes but the image problem the DPRK has (it doesn't matter anyway since they've been the convenient scapegoat for the past 20 years) is that Kim is like an honorary figure who has a high position mainly because he's the descendent of the great revolutionary leaders of the past. Not a monarch, but a revolutionary figurehead. It's not the best idea.

>>2596781
>>2596779
I know its /usapol/ but a mass shooting just happened right after the one in the uni. So many shootings

>>2596782
It was based when stalin was like "fuck that kid" when his son was captured by the nazis and they wanted to trade him for some high ranking general or something

>>2596789
>It's not the best idea.
It's served them well enough no?

>>2596740
>Did you include the Chinese demographic collapse of the next 30 years into this fantasy?
This is the dumbest neolib talking point ever. Even under capitalism the economic costs caused by population decline can be offset by the infrastructure investment and technological advancement.

>>2596796
Juche has worked, absolutely. It's just not necessary to have that figurehead any more.

>>2596797
the fertility rate issue is older than neoliberalism itself

>>2596766
>Brooks no opposition (although granted thats not inherently dictatorial), censors information, suppresses dissent, and maintains pervasive control over society, economy, and military.
Good, the right should be censored and suppressed at every turn.

>>2596787
I suppose political and military elite would be a better term then

>>2596789
>it doesn't matter anyway since they've been the convenient scapegoat for the past 20 years
America cut Korea in half arbitrarily and imposed a military dictatorship in the 40s and forced them to speak English, America put Syngman Rhee in power, America cancelled the results of elections if they didn't like the outcome, America accused "North" Korea of "invading" "South" Korea while militarily occupying Korea and cutting it in half, America dropped more bombs on Korea in the early 50s than were dropped in the entirety of the WW2, America killed 20% of the "North" Korean population, America committed the No Gun Ri massacre, America destroyed "North" korea's electrical, sanitation, and road infrastructure, America destroyed every city in "North" Korea, America raped Korean women and children on both sides, MacArthur wanted to drop nukes but was stopped thankfully. Then after all was said and done, America continues to occupy "South" Korea to prevent reunification despite "South" Koreans not wanting them there. America has supported right wing dictators like Park Chung Hee, and America has subsidized South Korean capitalism to make Capitalism appear "glorious" and producing a "high standard of living" while suppressing North Korean economic activity with brutal sanctions to make it appear "dictatorial" and producing a "low standard of living" despite "North" Koreans having to rebuild EVERYTHING from scratch with almost NO OUTSIDE HELP. Then America has the audacity to complain about the "cult of personality" around the "Kim Family" While constantly electing Bushes and Clintons, and printing money with dead slave owners on it.

Give me a fucking break.

>>2596804
I mean, I guess. I just don’t think suppressing voices besides fascist conservatives is that healthy for a society imo.

>>2596770
It really depends on who controls what.

Xi represents the "centre" of the CPC. He's been trying to balance the desires of the New Left and those who believe the opening up policy is nowhere near done for like 13 years now. I think he's doing a good job.

>>2596802
Is it really even an issue? If China has a 1 billion population 30 years form now instead of 2 billion it's won't destroy their country, they will just have less people.

>>2596797
And you suppose the west imports millions of laborers a year because they are bleeding hearts?

>>2596806
that's called a vanguard and it's part of Communism. Maybe you just dislike Communism?

>>2596812
When your entire economy is based on having a large population that you force into cheap labor for exports, yes that does tend to be a problem

>>2596807
> America has the audacity to complain about the "cult of personality"
I would also point out that when that old biddie the British Queen died it sent much of the western world mad

As much as it upsets ultras. Yes, China, Vietnam, Laos, North Korea and Cuba are all socialist countries.
Venezeulas a trickier one since private property is enshrined in their constitution - but it is a genuinely progressive system worthy of support.

>>2596816
The main issue is the vanguard is supposed to be a transitional organization, it actively betrays the working class the longer it consolidates power.

>>2596812
>Is it really even an issue?
Not for China no, it's gonna take a few decades until the population problems become noticable. For Europe and America though its an existential issue

>>2596819
I mean, it signaled the end of the second Elizabethan era. All of human society is charecterized by whatever hideous snaggletooth crone is on the bri'ish throne.

>>2596821
I know this might be upsetting to you anon but communism is never going to happen in our lifetimes. Even in the 1960s East German schoolchildren were told the possibility to create a stateless society might happen in 1000 years. Maybe. This is an extremely long goal direction for future generations we are fighting for, once the whole of humanity is united.

>>2596826
>communism is never going to happen in our lifetimes
lenin in 1916 be like

>>2596814
West has an economic system that needs to make profits so they chase after short term gains through immigration instead of planing for the long term.
>>2596817
Thus proper infrastructure investment and technological advancement will change the structure of your economy to offset population decline.

>>2596828
He didn't achieve communism. He built a socialist state with a communist party at the helm.

>>2596810
What? Give me a practical example. Who controls China?

>>2596826
I understand that, but I just don’t know if more authoritarian practices is the way to go about it.

>>2596832
I can settle for that

>>2596835
I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm just saying the vanguard party must continue to be the vanguard until capitalism is crushed.

Isn’t this meant to be /USApol/?

>>2596834
Lets put it to you this way, nothing else has worked. The USSR, DDR and Czechoslovakia were the finest socialist states created so far. The Soviet schizophrenia around countries opening up too much might have been a stretch too far. Maybe if the countries were allowed to liberalise socially maybe the colour revolutions of the 80's wouldn't happen. But when Gorby tried to liberalise the economy was so corrupt no treats would be able to deter the growing anti-communist resentment in the USSR.
>>2596840
this is the best conversation this general has had in weeks

>>2596842
>Maybe if the countries were allowed to liberalise socially maybe the colour revolutions of the 80's wouldn't happen. But when Gorby tried to liberalise the economy was so corrupt no treats would be able to deter the growing anti-communist resentment in the USSR.
China and the CPC proves the opposite is true. If Gorby only liberalized the economy while clamping down on nationalist tendencies then the CCCP would still be in charge and the USSR would still exist. Perestroika was survivable and reversible, Glasnost was a complete disaster.

>>2596860
China is at the position it is today because the country was in a rough shape in the late 70's and because they clamped down on the corruption they knew market liberalisation would cause. China went through similar issues Russia did in the 80's and 90's with corrupt party officials looting industries and large plots of peasant-used land. It's only in the last 20 years that China has made it almost impossible to be corrupt, or else face long prison sentences or even death. If the USSR did that to the people who secretly made deals with the Russian underground crime syndicates who dominated Russian 90's life then maybe there would still be a USSR.

>>2596801
Maybe not anymore, but so far it's been a decent strategy. I don't know if it would have been better for them to go the non Kim route early on

>>2596830
>so they chase after short term gains through immigration instead of planing for the long term.
Very poor understanding of investment, doesn’t suprise me. And you suppose China is planning for the long term by destroying their health and using them for hard labor, but importing the best and brightest to corporate America is short term. Very short sighted talking point

>Thus proper infrastructure investment and technological advancement will change the structure of your economy to offset population decline.
I’ll believe it when I see it. Currently China still has an emerging consumer economy, and their economy is mainly goods based export economy. Of course if you view investment as “short term profit taking” you wouldn’t understand why a data economy is preferable

>>2596864
Crime syndicates and corruption are nothing to a strong state. Strong state is like a strong immune system it can tolerate bacteria and prevent infection even if it's not ideal. Glasnost fatally weakened the state itself allowing the bacteria to cause gangrene.
>>2596866
> And you suppose China is planning for the long term by destroying their health and using them for hard labor
Yes. Building railways and factories might hurt the workers in the short term but in the long term they now have the real railways and factories that will bring up the entire economic system as a whole. After everything is built they can then reform and improve worker treatment.
> importing the best and brightest to corporate America is short term.
Majority of immigrants in the west are low end laborers…
>I’ll believe it when I see it.
Even according to you they have at least 30 years.
>a data economy is preferable
Humans live with food, shelter, and healthcare not data. Data economy is pointless without the foundations of the real economy to address human needs.

>>2596782
>I give massive props to the USSR and China for not having a single hereditary continuation of power. In the case of the USSR, many of them were retards but at least their kids didnt succeed them. They were not even commissars. I respect that. You're already provileged when papa is the big leader anyway, you can go into any other field. Why make it obvious and follow him one to one
Nothing is inherently wrong with inheritance of leadership in a socialist country if it is the will of the people.

>>2596768
>>2596774
I can appreciate the criticisms of bourgeoise democracy but come on now. There IS value in being able to have your voice be heard with the freedom of speech and democracy either way.

Chile is turning to the far Pinochet right btw. Surprisingly, the communists aren't actually doing THAT bad considering there's only 2 candidates now.

>>2596824
I like how skinny and V-shaped they made Bismarck's torso look in that artwork, lmfao. He's really suckin it in.

>>2596842
The Soviet "schizophrenia" was entirely justified and the only reason why the bloc failed is that they didn't go far enough. The USSR was one of the best functioning states in the world, there was no corruption and then Khrushchev came in and re-implemented capitalism while loosening party discipline and freeing all the fifth columnists from prison. It's not a surprise that the state collapsed, the Communist party was full of opportunists many of whom (Gorbacuck) were active enemies of socialism. Gorbacuck was mad because his Kulak grandparents were correctly liquidated by Stalin and he set about to destroy the USSR because of it.

new thread >>2596947

>>2596932
responded in the next thread: >>2596967

>>2596363
thank you

>>2596820
I genuinely did not know about Venezuela's communal councils until last week, that's lightyears ahead of burgerdom where much of this kind of work gets laundered through non profits