/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Why aren't you, personally, organizing underground cells? They won't let you beat them legally, you know.

By not posting it on anonymous image boards

Meshtastic is off grid and uses low power radio frequencies.
If you can get enough nodes up, you can have functional messaging while cell towers are down.

>>2687969
Why not use Tor or I2P instead? Say what you will about the relevance of newspapers in the modern day but if you're hyper-local in terms of infrastructure it's hard to act on a national level. There's a reason Lenin pushed for an all-Russian reach for propaganda early on.

we need tunnels

>>2687972
Mesh would work even in the event that power was cut. Really all you need for mesh node is a rpi0w with a battery.

>>2687978
I mean ideally you probably want both, but you want to avoid having a receiver that can be physically triangulated if you can help it. Unsure how well meshtastic works in that regard. And ideally you need some kind of mass influence (e.g. via front organizations) not being so underground that you're irrelevant, and not being so aboveground that you're impotent and legalist. A Tor or I2P based Iskra wouldn't be a bad starting place I think.

Here's my notes. Hope they don't break tor posting again like last time I talked about this

Strategic stages in terms of concrete activity:
(stages may retreat in unfavorable conditions, e.g. state concessions. We know that concessions are a key counter-insurgency strategy and are usually successful in shrinking the support of the insurgent movement, so we need to prepare to maintain activities clandestinely and at a low level for a long period in order to exhaust their will or ability to maintain or expand concessions)
> Strategic Defensive: operation in poor neighborhoods, growing to the point that advanced operations cover 100% of working class population in given city
Operational stages within defensive:
(Each is to build off of the practical activity/organization of the last, and lower functions are sustained as higher functions are taken up. All work is to be done clandestinely, some within fronts/community orgs and some out of sight.)
Rapport building: alleviation programs for poverty issues, community defense
Informational: social survey, mass line, educational programs, news distribution (word of mouth, speech at gathering, or physical paper), boycott of bourgeois media and entertainment, socialist controlled social media focusing on local and topic based discourse
Organizational: funnel anyone who wants to be helpful into specific programs. E.g.: arms training, fundraising for arms, procuring arms in a centralized way, working on distributed communication network infrastructure, provision of secure communication devices, journalism, social mapping, educational work, alleviation work, collecting donations for alleviation work, spreading socialist news media and bourgeois media and entertainment boycott, organizing new community and recreation events and programs, building tunnels and underground facilities, developing explosives, developing rockets and delivery systems, developing mortars, building or procuring body armor, developing surveillance technology (e.g. drones, stingray devices, packet sniffers, facial recognition, etc.), developing non-GPS tracking devices, deploying and maintaining surveillance technology in order to map enemy patterns and forces, infiltrating key infrastructural workplaces, infiltrating enemy forces, active surveillance and broadcast of threats to protect neighborhoods with clandestine activity/organizers, illicit economic activities, funding higher education in areas needed by the organization, donating time for repair and DIY activities in order to reduce community’s costs and decrease dependence on outside regions,
> Strategic Stalemate: insurrectionary takeover at city level, moving from control of residential areas to infrastructure (communications, grid, etc.), defensive positions, building new defensive positions (tunnels), implementation of immediate reforms, etc.
> Strategic Offensive: mobile warfare to take smaller towns and rural areas

Structure of communist movement:
>Communist Center:
- study and create policy
- lead through mass line
- educational qualifications (basics of Marxism) to become member
>Revolutionary Organization:
- engaged in political combination with the intention of administering society as the new state and defeating the bourgeois state
- led by communist center policy and strategy
- may contain those with low theoretical level who simply agree with the need for a new state
- engaged in activities such as: military training, canvassing, creation of propaganda/popular education materials on communist policy and analysis, social organizing in communities, collecting dues, reconnaissance and surveillance of bourgeois state forces (including infiltration), clandestine disruption and destruction of bourgeois forces, harassing the enemy, enacting justice when it’s a popular demand, administering a system of mutual aid from pooled resources and pledged skilled volunteering, encourage and engage in clandestine production of otherwise monopolized/IP’d goods and sell below market value; build underground tunnels and spaces for production and meeting; counterfeits and forgery; production of weapons and technical systems which support martial efforts; maintenance of servers and software in support of revolution (from websites to social mapping software to alternative social media); enforce eviction freezes and negotiate rents
- collect optional/sliding-scale dues from members
- collect donations with sales of media (e.g. newspaper, pamphlets, etc.) to community members
>Fronts:
- defined as spaces and occasions where people can get together and converse, socialize, etc.
- the domain of the new revolutionary state
- may eventually look like a united front, but that will come after the revolutionary organization gives the bourgeois state enough existential fear for reforms and concessions to come back
- carry out social organizational work (the same as workplace organizing but towards all of society – to solicit grievances and organize around them; to share information between locals such as shared grievances, possibilities for action, and bourgeois repression tactics; to share the official communist position on certain issues and educational literature/media if possible; to inspire confidence in the working class; to create distance and eventually sever ties between the workers and the bourgeoisie and its influence; to engage in social mapping (like workplace mapping but for neighborhoods/cities); to solicit information for social investigation; to recruit for the revolutionary organization and party of communists
- we should engage in all preexisting communities as well as create our own, with the ultimate goal that the communities we operate in cover 100% of the working class population
- a major goal should be for us to exert influence via these communities to isolate the working class from the media and entertainment of the bourgeoisie. That means ample recreation and socializing to take up people’s time, as well as spreading socialist media and even clandestinely socialist social media platforms in order to replace the bourgeoisie’s influence over the working class with it’s own independent discourse and recreation

What about recruitment? How do we accomplish that without too much COINTELPRO infiltration or a complete failure to get off the ground?

>>2687989
>deploying and maintaining surveillance technology in order to map enemy patterns and forces
I think projects that aim to map stuff like networks of flock cameras are already a useful precursor to stuff like this, but we should ideally aim to expand this further and to really map out other systemic vulnerabilities. Things like rail lines, electrical grids, other key infrastructure sites so your protesting isn't just chasing the purely symbolic targets but you're capable of actively contesting control of critical logistic centers of power.

>>2687983
All radio transmissions can be triangulated. I think the only thing that helps that is using geography like mountains to bounce waves off, and directional transmission. But if it transmits it can be found, basically. Realistically if you're in an active urban guerrilla situation, you just broadcast short messages from somewhere not important to your operations and then move so it doesn't help the gov locate you. Mesh is cool in a solarpunk way but they'd either take it down and/or criminalize whoever physically hosts it if it was used in an adversarial manner.

Realistically though we should just use existing infrastructure in an anonymous way. The safest way is tor over public wifi. If we needed during a conflict phones correctly (anonymously) procured could work, they just aren't useful for day to day operations since their location is always tracked and nothing is encrypted. Any revolutionary org should provision their members with means of secure communication and give them protocols to follow in order to not let our NSA AI overlords see their new patterns of life and draw the conclusion they've been recruited. For most things email could work. So e.g. take your full disk encrypted whonix/tails/qubes laptop, drive to a shopping center, park, connect to wifi, connect to party-provided (non-commercial) vpn, connect to tor, check email, copy email contents to pgp to decrypt

But overall we really need to find a key place to begin, and we need a center that can bring together lots of disparate efforts. That's where I think things like Tor and I2P are very promising as a coordination center.

>>2687957
Trotsky aura

>>2687998
I absolutely agree. Meshtastic could maybe work if it's a purely encrypted stream that they could triangulate but not associate with revolutionary activity unless you're a member with decryption keys, and even then I see risks if there's infiltration. But I think the point of a central platform like Iskra was that anyone could read it but few people knew the true identities of the people writing for it under pseudonyms. That probably also holds in the modern climate.

>>2687996
There's https://openinframap.org/

>>2688000
I think the key first thing is that we have conscious communist leadership communicate securely and pseudonymously in order to coordinate study efforts and lead initiatives at first. One thing past movements did wrong is make their ideological leadership identical with their activist leadership, which means they're the first to be locked up or killed (like the panthers). An invite-only forum would work great for something like this but for some reason the online left is totally dead right now

I feel like since an APT would totally burn an 0day on cracking a revolutionary dark web site if it was threatening enough there should be further defensive measures so that even if the domain is cracked you can still reorganize a new one without getting deanonymized and hunted down.

>>2688004
>for some reason the online left is totally dead right now
Scrolling, commenting, and being snarky is easy. Risking your life and putting in months of dedicated work to build an organization is not.

>>2687992
The safest means of recruiting is where organizers scout and vet potential recruits that they meet in real life scenarios. This could be the workplace, but we should also open as many fronts for recruitment work as possible. (E.g. community events, block parties, recreation clubs, volunteer orgs, etc.)

Also to be pedantic, recruitment is just one facet of social organizational work that a revolutionary has to do. We locate the most advanced, the intermediate, and the backwards. We recruit the advanced, but it's important also to know who can maybe be reached with educational material or social work initiatives, and who is an enemy who might need to be taken out at some point. So the overall work is to map out every social setting, such that ideally in the end we get a full picture of every working class person's political orientation, where they work, where they live, etc. Our goal is bringing together the best of our society in order to inspire and rally the middle, then repress the reactionaries to complete the act of bringing our class into total unity of action. Once we're united they can't stop us. And also only then would we have a real chance at winning over some of the military to our side. Plus we could ventilate nazis and use their property as bribes

>>2688015
But no recruiting is foolproof, since anyone can be turned. Especially if they have kids, addictions, debts, etc. That just means we need compartmentalization in our networks, and anonymization of info sent from locals up to higher levels.

>>2688015
I mean I think a good recruiting base right now is probably just people who are already communists but who just can't find a suitable organization that they can put their faith in, to build a vanguard. Then we can move towards the broader public.

>>2688011
I guess it would have to be no JS? And for extra security site owner should host 3-5 public guard nodes and set them as the only ones for the hidden service to use. And the site owner should obvs rent the server properly with monero, over tor, ssh over tor etc. and keep private keys local rather than on the server. And sign messages with a key they keep locally. That way even if the server is taken no one would be deanonymized, site owner would be safe, and they could put up a new site and verify it's real. It also means we'd need back channel communication. Email can do this. All members could be given (or just buy for themselves) a gmail to access over tor, and use pgp. That way it's not like they can shut down gmail to stop us. Maybe they could have google delete or lock those accounts though, so maybe just having tons of them. They're pretty cheap, you could give each person a different email to reach you at so if someone is a fed they don't compromise everything. And communicate it e2ee. That way the whole human network could be brought back in if the admin makes a new site.

>>2688019
>gmail
Was with you until this. Are you completely out of your mind? But no I'm pretty sure there are solid anonymized chat over Tor applications, and even without that shit like Proton is better. I don't know if they even allow gmail over Tor and obviously every gmail message is scanned.

>>2688021
You can buy gmails in bulk with crypto and just use them over tor, it's very secure. You can then encrypt the contents yourself. Bam, anonymous and encrypted email. Idk what chat apps are out there right now, but that's either another server that can be compromised if it's federated, or another company that can be coerced if it's centralized, or it'd have to be p2p and i think ricochet was the main one and idk if it's still around? p2p over tor is hard for obvious reasons, and non-tor p2p is dangerous

>>2688021
Also a second thing, you could even use discord or some other shitty malware safely over tor like this: rent a vps (over tor, with monero, etc.), set up your apps or browser or whatever you want on there, and then vnc over tor. To the app or website it looks like non-tor normal traffic (though not perfect because it's not a residential IP but that isn't really an issue) but it's not tied back to you. I don't expect everyone to do this though because it adds cost

>>2688023
Okay that's slightly less retarded. I think Ricochet (an old model) was actually the thing the German police compromised back in the day. There miiight be some other Tor p2p apps as well I think, like IRC over Tor or something.

But I think a good scaffolding is probably an online newspaper hosted securely on Tor/I2P. It could have a field that allows non-members to write correspondence for the paper, reviewed with high standards by the editorial board, and maybe if you publish enough as a guest correspondent you could get some conditional, limited membership that doesn't involve divulging compromising secrets. Idk.

>>2688032
there's also cwtch https://docs.cwtch.im/security/intro

I still think buying and using gmails over tor is better for emergency communication since it can't be taken down and doesn't lead back to your home IP (hosting a hidden service on your device seems sketch, there's lots to do to make hidden services more safe and you don't get to do any of it with ricochet/cwtch/whatever p2p over tor protocols). We could even use facebook over tor with VNC :^) ISIS uses facebook. Though you'd want a dedicated computer for it so they can't correlate your mouse movement/speed and things profile to your other activities

>>2688040
Will it be substantially different from the plethora of newspapers that already exist? I think a better model for the current level of organization would be a handful of self-organized study groups on different topics with the purpose of compiling definitive reports on the subject, in order to advance organizational knowledge as well as influence the wider conscious communist element in society.

>>2688061
The "newspaper" could be like the publishing ground for all of these study groups I guess. Could also have an invite-only forum attached. We also probably need to find a way to influence social media for agitprop directly without it being traced back, so buying bot accounts run over Tor could be useful maybe.

Organic centralism

>>2688004
>https://openinframap.org/
Is it based on OpenStreetMap? I would recommend to any anon who wants to map cameras to do it on OSM, you can detail even the direction they are pointed to and it will be uploaded to a database that will be accessible by everyone very soon

word of mouth.
only 100% fail-proof.

Honestly I think the best way is trying to infiltrate the military in key positions, e.g. maintenance worker at an airbase. Modern militaries can absolutely crush a working class insurrection with only guns as weapons, but they also have the weakness of having way more moving parts. If the people involved at any stage of the "kill chain" were to fuck something up, the entire thing stops working. So if you were to, say, pour water into the fuel tank while refueling an ISR drone, dump gravel into a warship's engines, insufficiently tighten some screws on a fighter jet, etc. this could not only cause extremely expensive damage but also cause missions to be delayed or abandoned due to part of the kill chain being nonfunctional.

>>2688320
This could also become catastrophic damage from just a single person if you were in a position like that of a drone controller or pilot, you could suddenly strike your own assets and torch entire lineups of vehicles or an ammo stockpile before someone stops you.

interesting larp, friends. glad you could get those revolutionary impulses out in a safe and harmless manner

>>2687957
if you're in Europe, who are you going to organise? the Euro supremacists who believe all Russians and Chinese should die? Most Europeans would (will) side with fascism/nazism before they accept a multipolar world or recognise Russians and Chinese as human beings.

>>2688569
Who cares europe is irrelevant. What matters is the united states, india and lat am most of all. Europe is toast has no resources and its a one trick pony that got beat by ai.

>>2688582
Rveryone in the future either clise or distant will be a kalergi creature. A eurasian black either by conquest or by evolution. Conquest being the fastest route. The sooner this is accepted the sooner we can carry on with the orogrom.

Is telegram a good app to use for local organizating?

>>2688793
Well if its for legal organizing i guess. They cracked down on tg. If its iffy youll want to use sessions. It uses a crypto version of tor.

>>2688793
Telegram is just like any other non-encrypted messaging app. There's nothing special about it. If you need an encrypted messaging app Signal is decent

>>2688320
As shown by both the Russian and Chinese revolutions, infiltrating the enemy's military is an important aspect of the work. It just can't be the only aspect, because it's also necessary to grow the number of revolutionaries, and that's achieved by organizing within the working class. The US military is especially harsh on any attempts to organize their forces. It doesn't mean we can't spread ideas or put ourselves in positions to do sabotage, but it means we'll have much less success than with the civilian population.

Also it's not necessarily true that the military can easily stop an insurrection. Insurrection is a surprise attack by a large portion of the population on the forces already stationed in a city. All the military can do is come in later to try to root out the now entrenched insurgents, who are also the popular and legitimate governing force. The US has fought in similar conditions, and it only has two methods of dealing with it: 1. genocide the population, 2. turn on the money faucet and bribe the population to be loyal to the previously established government. The second one is the most dangerous because it actually works. The first method, killing everyone until they happen to kill all insurgents, or until the population gives in, can be countered somewhat with moving key leaders, money, equipment etc. to another city, and building bunkers and tunnels underground to evade bombs. Really if they go the genocide route there's nothing anyone can do to totally defend against it, but in a civil war setting they're also destroying their own economic base, and thus their logistics. I

n the stage in preparation for insurrection, they could really hamper us if they do intense information gathering and targeted killings/arrests (and they already know this, which is why they're doing everything they're doing), but it seems like they have some trouble actually following through on this, meaning there must be too many enemies of the state for them to risk the political unrest it would cause to suddenly kill us all. Also their surveillance is not perfect. The stage where we're still trying to grow the number of armed communists, and when they begin to use violent repression, is the most dangerous for us. We'll have to quickly re-organize in order to avoid deadly raids while not yet strong enough to make any offensive moves. That's the point where they could easily snuff us out. But if we have enough support of the population we should be able to survive this. And if our organization is sufficiently compartmentalized and diverse we'll be able to keep growing it (even if armed comrades are known and not able to organize freely, others will be able to)

>>2688148
No

>>2688793

You are better off using less conventional communication forms.


>>Steganography is The practice of concealing messages within non-secret text or data. An image or a sound file may contain hidden information not immediately apparent.

>>Using networks like Tor / TAILS to facilitate anonymous exchanges, making the source and contents of messages difficult to trace.

>>Encoding Messages in Routine Data Leveraging innocuous data streams, such as DNS requests or metadata, to send hidden instructions.

>>Use of Obsolete Protocols; Leveraging outdated or seldom-used communication protocols that are not usually monitored by modern security tools



Here are some long standing services…

https://www.autistici.org/

https://www.autistici.org/links

>>2687957

OP this is discussed extensively in my post here -

https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/2696301.html


>>The distributed vanguard emerges from material conditions that centralized vanguard organization cannot survive. Advanced surveillance capacity, territorial and racial dispersal of working-class communities, ideological heterogeneity, and complex, expansive webs of preventive counter-insurgency create constraints that hierarchical vanguard structures fail to navigate. Decapitation, infiltration, and factionalization destroy centralized formations of the vanguard easily; distributed (decentralized) networks persist through redundancy and compartmentalization. The IRA themselves adopted a form of this, under similar material conditions.

>>Its material existence develops that exact practical necessity rather than theoretical prescription. The 2020 uprisings demonstrated distributed coordination scaling rapidly without centralized command, spreading tactics and resources through horizontal networks that state apparatuses could not properly map. Minneapolis in todays age, as discussed, maintains the polycentric capacity years after initial rupture of george floyd.

>>The invisibility of the distributed vanguard to those not involved is what makes people scramble for explanations as to how people can be so organized, with no clear vision of a central unit. They see holograms. They cannot properly threat map to justify open COIN, so they create open conspiracy "professional paid agitators", "Somalian leftist trojan horse" and use these rumors as replacement for accurate threat map conclusions



The image included is a perfect and accurate representation of this.

>>2697139
okay so what do i do then glowy?

>>2697626

That depends. What is your local terrain like, what are the needs and interests of the working class in your area like? How many individuals do yo have near that you trust with your life? How many that you dont trust with your life per se, but you would trust to push towards certain goals with?

First and foremost the basic principles of the scientific theory of a distributed vanguard include the following;

>>Polycentric Coordination
Multiple centers of initiative operate autonomously, with coordination achieved through federation and base level of principles rather than direct command hierarchy. No single node possesses comprehensive strategic knowledge or command authority over the next.

>>Political Wing Separation
Legitimate political engagement operates through structures distinct from clandestine or direct-action capacity. Separation protects both functions; legality shields the network; autonomy shields the political wing from conspiracy liability.

The most successful left party as of now, is DSA. For this to occur they must engage in revolutionary transformation and a breaking from the DNC's structure.
There already is an existing connection between a group like the DSA, and the energy that is opened up by decentralized, mass, diverse movements (distributed vanguard)


Mind you that the political wing doesn't only include the hypothetical revolutionary political party, but also things like tool librarys, food giveaways, book shares, community centers, reading groups, printing presses, clinics… all things you can build yourself if the task of turning the DSA's recent success into a revolutionary platform direction seems too daunting (i don't blame you). The political wing also includes other things not mentioned above. An example would be, the immigrant enforcement watch dog NGOs and lawyer teams exist not counter to the decentralized movement, but in the same stream flowing down the same river, not directly connected in organization but tied to the same network of intelligence building, offering levels of legal protections and legitimacy to the decentralized movement (distributed vanguard). Of course this is in it's crude form, and there's operation differences to be expected across varying geographical terrains.

>>Economic self-sufficiency through using direct means of intentful squatting, cooperative ownership, land, and mutual aid networks generates material independence from capitalist employment and state welfare, enabling sustained oppositional commitment.

These require creativity, but it's a basic level of expropriation that is low risk depending on how you do it.

>>Security Through Compartmentalization. The Cellular structure of distributed vanguardism limits information exposure to outside actors. No individual knows more than necessary for their specific function; network topology remains invisible to partial penetration.

This is why the repressive forces of the state and it's backers constantly display their confusion when these networks become visible in apparent moments of rupture. WHO IS THIS, WOW NO ORGANIZATION, GEORGE SOROS, SOMALIAN TROJAN HORSE, ANTIFA SUPER SOLDIERS! Just an examples, and there's a reason the state uses this langauge; in absence of proper threat mapping rumor and conspiracy theory becomes the last public justification for a visible COIN (counter insurgency) operation. Right now the method of a distributed vanguard is making the DHS look like toddlers in Minneapolis. They targeted it specifically because their data shows a high existence of these nodes there, but the efficiency of thwarting repression has left them in a constant state of threat exaggeration.

>>Rotation and Revocability
Leadership functions rotate regularly based on changing conditions and situations; delegation remains temporary and bounded by specific mandates related to praxis; recall is immediate and practical through the voting or consesus decision making amongst cells. These mechanisms prevent a single person from developing WAY more influence than others, thus making infiltration harder to achieve flipping the individual with most influence; because the decision making process would almost force the snitch to have to out themselves as attempting to incriminate; they would have to play it smarter. Even if successful in taking one cell down, which does, can and will occur, it would ultimately fail in achieving a proper mapping / detection of activity in the broader ever-changing and reshaping network.

>>Mass Line Investigation
Systematic engagement with working-class communities generates strategic orientation through practice; investigation, testing, refinement, praxis. Theory emerges from and returns to material reality at all times.

>>Prefigurative Practice
Organizational form embodies desired social relations. The means of coordination prefigure the ends of transformation; bourgeois formations of hierarchy in decentralized organization produces praxis chained by the bourgeois logic.

>>Strategic Patience.
Organizational survival and capacity development take priority over immediate visibility or action. Preparation occurs through periods when transformation is impossible.

>>Permanent Self-Transformation.
Regular working class power building dissolves nodes that become internalized, rotates leadership that becomes entrenched according to developing situations, and continuously maintains organizational intelligence through continuous adaptation to situations rather than preservation of singular identifiable form.


>>in this organizing model praxis acted upon during moments that are socially rupturing is rapid, like a quickly spreading virus that goes from node to node all over the world.

You will see these italian protests again DHS for instance, is apart of this same network. The nodes can actively trigger mass amounts of the distributed vanguard by actively, and decisively engaging in visible social struggle. When something occurs in Minneapolis it could instantly spread to hundreds of nodes in LA. The lack of an organization central behind this material development of the vanguard, leaves outsiders believing spontaneity is occuring or that the billionare philanthropist george soros to be the leader of said actions.

>>2697129
I'm very happy i checked back on this thread

>>2697675
Rotating leadership undermines compartmentalization. Leadership, by necessity of its role, requires access to a wider amount of information than is accessible to lower bodies. The degree to which you switch out leadership is the degree to which you lose the benefit of compartmentalization. It's a liberal view to see leadership as a privileged position, which is what necessitates its being shared. If you see leadership as simply another specialized role that is equally accountable to the collective, then there is no reason to rotate it. We should focus on developing trustworthy and competent leadership first, while retaining the right to recall them at any time. This does provide a point of failure, but this can be mitigated in other ways (e.g. wider organizational resiliency, deadman switches to release access or protected information to lower bodies, and a clandestine structure and security practices that insulate the leadership from identification)

I fucking love RF shit and meshnetworks, I think we should definitely build networks like that, not for organizing underground resistance but because a lot of the global internet infrastructure is fragile as fuck and it won't take that much for it to break down. We should get ahead and start building robust (albeit more local and with lower bandwidth) networks that aren't at the complete whims of the state and corpos.

As for the underground organizing, any communication over the air will be full of holes, it's just the nature of RF communication, you can encrypt the traffic but it wonˋt stop triangulation and the state will come down pretty hard on most encrypted traffic RF sources. Triangulation is pretty trivial to do, especially when you have unlimited resources.

Generally, as said in this thread, the best bet is to hijack existing infrastructure, use public wifi + TOR, if you live in an upper floor of an appartement you can get a wifi dish and connect to plenty of wifi points throughout a whole city, you could eaily find weak residential accesspoints and use those as well, regularly switching access points is a good idea regardless.

>>2697834


I appreciate your engagement with the framework, but I must respectfully push back on what I perceive as a fundamental misreading of the distributed vanguard's topology. Your critique assumes leadership as concentrated function rotating through individuals who occupy fixed positions within stable organizational boundaries. This is not the model. Leadership in this framework is not position but pattern, not a held office but emergence that is not held by persons but arising from network dynamics; fluid like water adapting to its surrounding physics. Action to stop cop city in atlanta illustrates this. no permanent leadership body, but coordination between multiple leftists orgs and nodes through sustained engagement with forest defense, police state resistance, and mutual aid. Leadership functions as strategic orientation, resource allocation, tactical decision emerging from specific nodes in specific moments, and then dissolve when conditions shift, and re-form through different connections when new situations demand.

Your idea of "trustworthy and competent leadership" preserved through recall rights preserves precisely the vulnerability this framework attempts to avoid; concentration of strategic knowledge in identifiable individuals, accumulation of experience as organizational asset, transformation of specialized role into separate political interest activist or politician groups. The mitigation strategies like deadman switches, wider resiliency, clandestine insulation only address symptoms rather than structure; these methods are still stronger in defense when used within the distributed vanguard. For instance, me being someone who has already served time for false accusations steming from missouri in 2014-2019, so I does have a dead mans switch due to my legal status leaving me with an inability to defend myself. I don't engage in any wild acts or act beyond legality at all, yet I don't trust that my past charge being visible and online will allow me to enjoy luxury of guaranteed saftey. If anything happens to me there will be a major concrete evidence leak on the DoJ related to cointelpro tactics and the murder of a comrade and other friends. Off topic, so lets speak on the fact that when i say rotation its not liberal egalitarianism but security architecture; leaderships function distributed such that compromise of any node does not compromise wider strategic capacity, such that network intelligence exceeds any one individuals influence on activity.

I did mention that what you're describing can exist within this context, and act as a sort of scaffolding to build people up for the distributed networks. Exposure is definitely still a high risk during this period, but it only exposes the ideological tendencies of a subject or group being observed by the surveillance system, not their overall networks operational capacity or movement. Like using tor, if the cops know you use it, there will be way more heat on you in theory.. but also, in theory, that doesn't automatically incriminate you and negate the anonymity of the model given you adhere to its proper use.

The "natural leadership roles" I describe are not assigned positions of command but emergent nodes taking initiative according to demonstrated capacity at a given moment, recognized through practice rather than appointed through bureaucratic procedures, their authority revocable through network rerouting rather than formal voting systems. This is not constantly making the decision of switching out individuals from cells with intent but continuous reformation of network topology, cells dissolving and reforming, connections shifting, leadership function migrating to where capacity and conditions converge. The linear vanguardist model cannot parsee this because the organizational imaginary remains linear in the most traditional of sense, rather than letting covert organizing hierarchies form in ways that are invisible to onlookers.

Atlanta cop city's persistence despite repression demonstrates this practically on a small scale. No leadership decapitation dissolved capacity because no concentrated leadership exists to decapitate; no infiltration has mapped the network because its topology shifts faster than surveillance can reconstruct; no factional split has paralyzed coordination because coordination is achieved through practice rather than through unified command. So you have the PSL showing up to vigils and riots for an anarchist that was killed, because it is all an interconnected network of nodes federated through basic praxis agendas in pre revolutionary conditions. Multiple charges and ricos failed against this model during this time -
https://fightbacknews.org/articles/atlanta-victory-61-charges-dismissed-in-the-cop-city-rico-case

Your ideas of "trustworthy and competent leadership" in the public eye representing the vanguard would create precisely the target that modern repression requires, the map that infiltration seeks. Your mitigation is mitigation; distributed vanguard is the structure of constant prevention applied to mass movements or the militant / disruptive wings of class struggle in pre-revolutionary conditions.

With respect as a comrade, I would suggest that the commitment to stable identifiable vanguard leadership reflects not materialist analysis but organizational nostalgia; the desire for visible, accountable, heroic figures rather than the messy, unheroic, decentralized network that actually persists under the imperial base's conditions of advanced repression. The framework we present does not promise clarity; it only promises survival through conditions where revolutionary transformation is not in realistic reach, where the high tech COIN surveillance systems back the actions of unhinged reactionary repression

>>2697863
What clarity?

>>2697863
I've been appreciating all your posts juche flag poster. I think I pretty much agree with you on everything. I'm glad there is a poster like you I agree with that writes such cogent posts.

>. For instance, me being someone who has already served time for false accusations steming from missouri in 2014-2019, so I does have a dead mans switch due to my legal status leaving me with an inability to defend myself. I don't engage in any wild acts or act beyond legality at all, yet I don't trust that my past charge being visible and online will allow me to enjoy luxury of guaranteed saftey. If anything happens to me there will be a major concrete evidence leak on the DoJ related to cointelpro tactics and the murder of a comrade and other friends. Off topic, so lets speak on the fact that when i say rotation its not liberal egalitarianism but security architecture; leaderships function distributed such that compromise of any node does not compromise wider strategic capacity, such that network intelligence exceeds any one individuals influence on activity.
I'd like to hear more about any of that if you want to share but I understand if you don't think it's a good idea.

>>2697864

*clarity relating to future outcomes

Forgot to finish typing the sentence i guess.

>>2697866
Ah, i though you meant Le Programmatic clarity

>>2697865

I'm not really willing to get into too much detail, but I lived in St. Louis in a squat that was a mix of black anarchists and marxists. After the Mike Brown uprisings, multiple people in the squat faced false arrrests on random charges… people died under mysterious circumstances. I got arrested on a serious drug charge for cocaine I never had or put in my car, and served 4 years in prison… small time conservative media drug my name during this talking about agitator is cocaine dealers. This happened after a few of my friends died. I'm sure you can find info about "suicides" related to ferguson missouri, but i really cant get deep into it as any details could doxx my case, and negate my dead mans switch. Trust me leaking this info would be the right thing to do, but my life is important to me. I am lucky that I've even been able to come across this evidence, and I thank the individual human being in the DoJ who were disgusted by what was going on that provided it to me, but I do not think it's something I should get into.

>>2698529
Damn bro, your life is like a movie. I can't believe there is someone like you here. I already know, out of all the groups of people I would never want beef with is the local PD. You can talk shit about the FBI and CIA or whatever, we're not even on their radar(or I mean not above 100ks of others), but start beef with the local PD and they'll come kill you quick. There was this one activist up in the Bay Area, I forget where, but he was just exposing how the police were going to parking lots and running everyone's plates, and then this started some thing between them and then a little while later he was found strangled to death in his burning apartment in an "apparent suicide" and he was posting about how there were vans on the street and they were coming to kill him. That's just the mad ramblings of a suicidal man about to strangle and burn himself to death.

>>2698544
It's a real shocker when the local PD doesn't investigate crimes in their jurisdiction where the local PD is the prime suspect.

>>2688148
QRD on organic centralism?

>>2698544


Forget about me there's people who need prison support now;

https://freeosoblanco.org/

https://freecaseynow.noblogs.org/post/2025/11/05/48/

https://prisonersolidarity.com/prisoner/hridindu-roychowdhury

https://www.abcf.net/support-guide/




I also wont get into details like I said, but I will share this about someone from my friend group since his mom came public;

https://www.tampabay28.com/news/national/ferguson-activist-believes-her-son-was-killed-police-say-it-was-suicide

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/puzzling-number-men-tied-ferguson-protests-have-died-n984261

More people from the same group of friends surrounding the one house of organizing died in mysterious ways. I will say I CANNOT discuss anything i know about this and it hurts, nor do I physically have the evidence or data explaining what has happened with this (this is all just the surface) on my persons. I also wont discuss the sources beyond the fact that it was internal DoJ who did personal investigations separate from agency request; these media drops were a display that my dead mans switch was serious. Upon returning home i've received threats and stalking daily. You could often see blacked out SUVs sitting outside my residence at all hours of the night. Someone on my law team suggested I leave a bread crumb with my sources media contacts to show them the dead mans switch wasn't a pump fake; this is the media release i linked to you beyond the mother speaking out. The stalking died down in waves, but continued more spread out across time. The one kid, he had big plans for a real estate land trust to house revolutionaries and low income folk too, RIP comrade.

You're quite wrong about the "not being on FBI radar" bit. The local PD intelligence networks are unequipped for cointelpro style operations and psychological warfare on their own; pentagon connected sources and military strategies dictate policing when it comes to thwarting subversive movements. This is open knowledge; the pentagon sent annalists and the military network mappers to attempt to understand anarchist activity in the PNW… which is also confirmed. The local PD are just the foot soldiers and dirty workers for a larger and deeper web of COUNTER INSURGENCY.

>>2698915
I used to post some stuff they probably didn't like on facebook, and one time I went out to drive for ciggies at night, and they stopped me for what I don't know what reason. They made me get out the car doing the macarena, put your hand here cross the other hand over there, blah blah, then they sat me on the curb. They asked me: "Can we do a bomb check on your car?" I was like WTF? I know if they're asking you, that means you have the right to refuse, but I just thought the whole thing was funny and I had absolutely nothing illegal in the car. Not only that but it was full of junk from clearing out a diseased relatives house. So I said yes and sat on the curb and watched them sift through like 100s of items of junk. One of them found this little vial of essential oil that the label had come off. He brought it over to me, "what's this?" I told him, essential oil, he didn't understand, so I said perfume, then he carefully unscrewed the top and took the tiniest whiff. Lol. It was certainly my funniest experience with the cops, just like "you dirty fucking trash pandas."

They let me go with no ticket or anything either.

>>2698924
This is genius, we should fill up our cars with garbage just in case they wanna search

GENIUS

>>2698924

Picture this; An unmarked car stops you at 2 a.m., four plainclothes officers step out and, without any articulated probable cause, immediately seize and rifle through the cardboard box of political pamphlets sitting openly in your vehicle, branding them “dangerous propaganda” on the spot to establish an ideological frame on you. They then interrogate you aggressively about your now-deceased friend who died in a sketchy "suicide", pressing whether he was planning to “hurt white people” a racially charged, inflammatory projection that has no basis in anything you know of his character or actions. This was not genuine investigation; it was deliberate narrative construction, the planting of a seed meant to justify escalation, to linger in your mind and get you to crack, and to poison any future perception of you or your friend circle.

Almost immediately afterward, during the search that follows this late night stop on a dark north st louis road, police retrieve 10 grams of cocaine material you have never seen, never purchased, never possessed, and yet somehow materializes in your car. The timing alone is damning; narcotics appear precisely in the wake of ideological probing, allowing the encounter to shift seamlessly from potential political harassment into a straightforward felony drug charge, one that carries far less evidentiary burden and far greater punitive consequences than any overt charge of vocal subversion ever would.

Bail is set at an astronomical level, wildly disproportionate to the alleged quantity. Your lawyer uncovers that the Department of Justice itself reached out to the court, asserting without a shred of publicly verifiable evidence that you were a national flight risk and a gang member with “connections all over the country.” When pressed for substantiation, and FOIA the feds invoke the standard wall of silence; neither confirm nor deny, related to ongoing investigations. This federal intervention turns what might have remained a local misdemeanor or low-level felony into a matter treated as a security concern, guaranteeing prolonged pretrial detention, financial devastation, and in their heads a stigmatizing label that follows you into every future organizing space.

This is precisely what happened on the night of my arrest in 2015.

>>2698939
Yeah, cops planting coke is such a well known phenomenon it is even a trope I would say. I think I got on some kind of radars for sure but and investigation would reveal me to be a nobody who does nothing but talk shit online.

>>2698944
There was this one rapper who I randomly came across because he followed me on soundcloud. His whole story is crazy. His cousin got killed by the police, then he started doing a lot of BLM type activism stuff, then the LA police chief started coming out against him and said on TV that he was a gangbanger. Then he actually got this motherfucker to retract his statement, but on twitter, but he was like "if you said I'm a gangbanger on TV you should retract it on TV." Anyways there was a robbery where like a PS4 was stolen out of a home. It was just described that a Black man was spotted fleeing the scene. They went out, arrested him, did what they call a "field identification" where they bring the suspect to the victim in handcuffs and go, "is this the guy?" And then that was that, they convicted him of robbery and sentenced him to 17 years. Not only that, but I looked him up on the California inmate search and they had him at a private prison in Mississippi. I imagine he's still there. God I wish I wrote him a letter. I've tried to spread his story here over the years a couple times.

>>2698946
He really pissed them off.

>>2698948
Here is with some of the news clips.

>>2698915

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/puzzling-number-men-tied-ferguson-protests-have-died-n984261

Holy hell I just read this I believe it. stay safe comrade. I hope the dead mans switch is secure enough please keep your head on a swivel.

Deandre Joshua’s body was found inside a burned car blocks from the protest. The 20-year-old was shot in the head before the car was torched.
>>Darren Seals, shown on video comforting Brown’s mother that same night, met an almost identical fate two years later. The 29-year-old’s bullet-riddled body was found inside a burning car in September 2016.
MarShawn McCarrel of Columbus, Ohio, shot himself in February 2016 outside the front door of the Ohio Statehouse, police said. He had been active in Ferguson.
>>Edward Crawford Jr., 27, fatally shot himself in May 2017 after telling acquaintances he had been distraught over personal issues, police said. A photo of Crawford firing a tear gas canister back at police during a Ferguson protest was part of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch’s Pulitzer Prize-winning coverage.
In October, 24-year-old Danye Jones was found hanging from a tree in the yard of his north St. Louis County home. His mother, Melissa McKinnies, was active in Ferguson and posted on Facebook after her son’s death, “They lynched my baby.” But the death was ruled a suicide.
Bassem Masri, a 31-year-old Palestinian American who frequently livestreamed video of Ferguson demonstrations, was found unresponsive on a bus in November and couldn’t be revived. Toxicology results released in February showed he died of an overdose of fentanyl."

>>2698946

i just looked into this 2 holy fuck. its the same pattern the person i just replied to described happening to him??? Im honestly new to socialism from streams. I thought cointelpro was from the 70s not 2015s????

>>2697863
>rather than letting covert organizing hierarchies form in ways that are invisible to onlookers.
Translated to normal speech - cliques should dominate organizations with no accountability. This is the reality that has been seen and critiqued ad nauseam in anarchist spaces already.

I suggest that you are still holding a liberal view of leadership when you talk about heroic figures. A leader is just a node with extra privilege. This is necessary for compartmentalization, otherwise everyone has access to all information, making being a mole super easy. And of course this critique fails to capture your vision as a whole. What it really looks like is no one has any information, everyone is acting in an uncoordinated way, development is only spontaneous, resources are mis-allocated from a pov of the whole movement, etc. So you wouldn't need to worry about information leaking anyways, since there's no information being shared. But this is a weakness of the model as a whole, not a strength

This brings me to your crimethinc article in another post - what do you think insurrection is? What is your tactical theory of victory? I see insurrection as a moment in a wider struggle. For Lenin it was a moment when the people took the movement from the working class neighborhoods to the city as a whole, taking over communications infrastructure, barracks, factories, etc. A riot is not an insurrection and will never be able to assert any kind of control because it lacks the ability to defend itself. Talking about holding territory with burning cars is nonsense, that's really only territory denied. And you might think "yes, this is exactly what we want! ungovernability!" but this does not work side by side with a functioning economy. In lieu of a functioning modern economy how will the people feed themselves? All anarchism finds itself at primitivism in the end, or syndicalism. And you're not a syndicalist.

Also you keep mentioning leadership decapitation but compartmentalization gives the capacity for an organization to obscure its leadership. That's only the case for open organizations, which I don't advocate at all (but you do!). Idk what you're trying to say with linear organizations and a lot of your obscure writing. It seems like you have a vibe more than a thought out system. Why should cells (groups of individuals in communication and coordination with each other) be constantly breaking up and forming? That's the opposite of an affinity group. Plus why support this? It means constant churn rather than growth. It means where you could have grown your network, instead you keep organizational capacity at the same level. Why not just grow? It seems very frivolous to me, because it doesn't take into account the scale of organization we need. I'll address that more in another comment to you

>>2699008
I don't lie. I should re-look-up all the details and do a write up. I didn't forget, but alas, I didn't do anything, there was not much I could. I could have at least wrote him in prison. I can still do it now if he's still locked up.

But still, hypothetically, we can kill all of them so easily. All it takes is one sympathetic soul to get away with murder, I love hearing them talk about their concerns about "jury nullification" with Luigi. We can just go kill them, the problem is most people aren't on our side. Like cops, FBI, CIA, really can get with the team and we could just go kill them, that's my message to the surveillance state.

>>2699015
>>Translated to normal speech - cliques should dominate organizations with no accountability. This is the reality that has been seen and critiqued ad nauseam in anarchist spaces already.

This is the reality that has been seen and critiqued ad nauseam in every single leftist space. If you've been around, and in a lot of organizations of varying degrees you would know cliques forming is a constant challenge, the committee is often a mask word for clique in the way some of them actually function.

The theory of distributed vanguard does not sit as proposed political structure or a new form of state power, nor a informal hierarchy of cliques, with alternative government waiting to be instituted. This misreads entirely. The framework describes organizational intelligence already emerging in practice from material conditions, not blueprint for future socialist state institution. It is analysis of how coordination already functions in successful decentralized movements, systematized for learning and replication, not call for new political form to be established with this said model.

Lets head to Post-1969 Republican movement; after security failures there was no centralized command between Belfast, Derry, South Armagh, yet certain nodes set tone through demonstrated success; Belfast's military operations, Derry's civil resistance, South Armagh's territorial control - all things that also lead a mass network of varying republican groups and individuals who were engaged in acts. Leadership outside of the top, or political wing was not elected or appointed but emerged from practice alone. Which node delivered results, which developed effective tactics, which maintained security under pressure. Other nodes adapted, adopted, or ignored based on their own assessment and conditions. This is not militant democracy or hierarchy in formal sense but distributed recognition; leadership as influence rather than command, as temporary pattern rather than stable position. You see "cliques" and recoils because your imaginary remains trapped in liberal categories; accountability requires visibility, legitimacy requires procedure, coordination requires hierarchy or its absence. The distributed vanguard operates in different register entirely; accountability through material interdependence, legitimacy through demonstrated reliability, coordination through network topology rather than traditional military command structure. The Belfast IRA's "leadership" was not clique dominating organization separate from the general militant republican movement but nodes temporarily central in broader network flow; more traffic passed through, more resources coordinated, more tactics originated without centralized authority to command other nodes, which retained autonomy to accept or reject influence.
The framework's "nondirect leadership" is precisely this observation; temporary centrality in network topology rather than position in organizational chart. Success and resources concentrate influence without concentrating power, because nodes remain materially autonomous and can survive without central node, can route around failure, and can develops alternative coordination dissipates.

>>A riot is not an insurrection and will never be able to assert any kind of control because it lacks the ability to defend itself

I don't think you've looked that deeply into the Greek situation of that era, especially if you think all that was ocuring was some flipped cars. I'm also seeing the inability to use materialism beyond a linear sense; you shouldn't expect "insurrection" to appear in the same ways in Athens 2000s as it would in Russia over 100 years ago. Lenin was right in his definition; Yet "Insurrection" is not essence to be achieved through correct checklist; communications infrastructure, barracks, factories, but specific historical form of revolutionary moment, dependent on conditions of class interaction in the locality. Lenin's Petersburg was concentrated industrial city with centralized state apparatus vulnerable to concentrated assault; and I'd even argue that the nihilist insurrections of russia against the tsar are what set the conditions of full on insurrection in Russia.

Athens is a dispersed metropolitan region with distributed state power and advanced surveillance capacity. The economy is tourism, shipping offices, small retail, precarious construction, gig work, university and public sector employment fragmented across metropolitan region. Production is individualized, invisible, and distributed into fields without the clear production identity that russian workers had. Workers are isolated in small workplaces or informal arrangements, their labor not obviously interdependent, and their physical concentration temporary and consumption-oriented rather than production-centered. The university, the shopping district, the neighborhood square replace the factory as sites of potential coordination, but these are sites of social reproduction and circulation, not direct production.

The factory proletariat could leverage structural position through direct action at point of production, acheived through direct insurrectionist acts, strike, occupation, seizure. Economic power translated directly into political power because production was material, located, and collective. The working class of modern Athens lacks this structural position; service work is difficult to occupy, informal work is difficult to organize, precarity makes sustained strike action economically suicidal. Here the class struggle cannot take the same form because production relations do not permit it. This does not mean class struggle disappears but that it migrates to sites of social reproduction; housing, education, urban public space, police violence. The 2008 uprising was triggered not by workplace exploitation but by police killing and a hate for the relation to commodity; it concentrated not in factories but in universities and neighborhoods; its demands were not workers' control but broader social transformation. This is not failure of class strugggle it's a material adaptation to class composition; the urban proletariat of 2008 is not the industrial proletariat of 1917, and its struggles reflect different conditions of existence.

The Romanian immigrant looting the Athens Rolex shop in 2008 and the Petersburg workers seizing the factory in 1917 are actions identical in their fundamental relation to capital, differing only in the mode through which that relation is expressed. Both are acts of appropriation against commodification, of taking what capital has enclosed, of asserting need against exchange value. The factory worker takes the means of production; the urban precarious worker takes the means of consumption. Both refuse the mediation of wage and market as expropriation.

The black/white producer-owner framework is not wrong but incomplete, sure, adequate to industrial capitalism but not to late state capitalism's full development. Marx analyzed commodity production; we inhabit commodity circulation, commodity consumption, the commodification of daily life itself. The Rolex is not merely luxury good but fetish form of social value, the immigrant's expropriation is not merely consumption but attack on the spectacle of wealth. The factory seizure disrupts production; the shop looting disrupts reproduction of class hierarchy through consumption. Both of these things are the same acts of class struggle; Do not expect uprisings, insurrections to take the exact same shape as places that hold two different material conditions under capitalism.

READ:

1. https://www.jstor.org/stable/41510566

2. https://www.academia.edu/1963913/From_Ruptures_to_Eruption_A_Geneaology_of_the_December_2008_Revolt_in_Greece

3. https://www.scribd.com/doc/194383447/Glass-Floor

I'm sorry that this response has to be so long, but I'm realizing a lot of people have not closely observed the shifting conditions of capitalism in it's modern stages, and how that means class struggle will not directly imitate it's history. This is why looting occurs in the USA too; that was a direct form of class struggle in it's relative form. I'm not sure where you all live, but I'm imagining if workers seized the means of production where I am, they'd still have very little to produce.

Now, I have to move on for your accusation on the word "insurrection" falsely being applied to describe the word "riot". Riot typically suggests unorganized, spontaneous, localized violence without sustained political objectives; insurrection suggests organized, sustained, territorialized challenge to state power with revolutionary aspiration. Greece exhibited elements of both and neither with organization emerging through practice rather than direct prior planning, duration extending over weeks, spread across multiple cities. It sits somewhere between unrest and insurrection. It wasn't purely reflective of an event of unhinged, untamed anger; An Anarchist teen was SHOT dead by the state, right outside of a popular squat. Within an hour anarchists & marxist cells were demonstrating their capacity, and it generalized. I point to it, not because it's a direct example of the model but because greece demonstrates both the viability and insufficiency of distributed vanguard coordination; all things to learn from.

The greek riots were a highly organized, and rapid response to a comrade being murdered by the police, this is something beyond the scope of a normal riot. Multiple police stations in over 3 cities were under constant siege, over 40 buildings were occupied for a month, media stations were seized, the economy was shut down and under constant attack in multiple cities for about a month. In a month it caused over 2.6 billion in economic losses for the bourgeois. It boiled over into armed struggle, which is when the IRA's world began vocally supporting them. The zapatistas responded to events in 2008 saying that the greek riots were an example of what insurrection can look like in relation to their urbanized neo-liberal economy, because they understand materialism and don't see it as viable that people seize land and farms like they did in chiapas in…Athens.



>>Also you keep mentioning leadership decapitation but compartmentalization gives the capacity for an organization to obscure its leadership

Clandestine organizations with centralized command, armed groups with hierarchical structure all remain vulnerable to decapitation and co-option because leadership is concentrated even if hidden. The compartmentalization I describe is not of individuals but of knowledge and function according to specific tasks. No single node possesses comprehensive strategic understanding, and leadership function migrates rather than residing in identifiable persons. Coordination emerges through network topology rather than command structure. This applies regardless of organizational visibility. The IRA's Army Council was clandestine yet decapitatable; the only reason they avoided this was they didn't exist in a modern GWOT framework, so their leadership was often hidden and secure in the republic of Ireland. This method wouldn't work today in Ireland, and there is no probable land and sovereignty separation that would have ever allowed that in USA. The 2008 Greek coordination was visible yet not decapitatable because leadership was distributed, not hidden. Their leadership was determined by their capacity and success.

The framework is deliberately provisional, describing organizational intelligence observed in practice rather than prescribing ideal form. This is not absence of system but resistance to systematization that slows growth. The distributed vanguard framework suggests that new conditions require conceptual innovations of leadership in militancy.

>>constantly breaking up and forming?

Cells do not "constantly break up and form" through deliberate decision. The network topology shifts through material processes; nodes dissolve when participants burn out, relocate, face new situations, meet new people or face repression; new nodes form when conditions permit; connections reconfigure as trust develops or fails. This is not "frivolous" organizational policy but observation of how distributed networks actually function. The question of "why support this" assumes this is advocated ideological preference rather than analyzed tendency of how protracted peoples war can survive the modern apparatus of capitalist hegemony and policing.

>>That's only the case for open organizations, which I don't advocate at all (but you do!)

Yes, and these open organizations give multiple benefits currently. You laugh, but if you were to be arrested, due to connections with these organizations and a shared principle and effort, I could easily allocate money to your bail if needed. The class struggle is not something that should be completely in the shadows; the ideas, support, challenging of power through labor, and survival programs all currently belong in the public sphere.

You wont do shit. Stop wasting people's time. Go eat your ben&jerrys and play the Nintendo

>>2699790
>I'm realizing a lot of people have not closely observed the shifting conditions of capitalism in it's modern stages,
No the issue is that actually your ideas are played out and old, we've heard this shit a thousand times that marxist critiques of capitalism are meaningless in a post-industrial "consumer" society (a thing that doesn't exist), and your theory of organization is just movementist liquidationism. You don't understand the need for a coordinating organization, and where you accept its existence (in your historical examples) you say that it has to be born from competition between local groups. I don't even take huge issue with that last part, but the problem is that these things are not static. What begins as multiple points of resistance with their own methods, ideologies, and mode of decision making only become successful when they're brought under the umbrella of a larger organization that coordinates actions and distributes resources. You start going word salad when trying to say I mischaracterize your vision (or not a vision, just a plain reproduction of current (losing) practices right?). I think this is because your ideas don't stand up to scrutiny and you haven't studied history deeply enough.

I'm done arguing with you, so I'll just say on a lighter note: right now, yes some people are making networks and resisting state violence as best as they can, but so many others are ready to do something but face the current political landscape where there is no organization ready to take and lead them. People are paralyzed by powerlessness, and there's nothing more powerless than purely local actions and isolated grouplets. We'll only be able to overcome the moment by attempting to grow a more singular organization that can tell people what needs to be done in their area and lets them rest easy knowing that what they're doing is being replicated in many places, paving the way for actual change and an actual chance at self-defense. You say yourself that your vision is just a reflection of what is currently happening. We aren't currently winning, so there's no evidentiary weight to this model. Yes conditions in the past were different, but they also had similarities. I'm not just drawing from the bolsheviks but from many other communist parties - the successes as well as failures. We need to take stock of history, not the present, because the present is what we're trying to influence and has no lessons for us yet. Your vision is a theoretical reflection of the existing movement, not the theory behind the movement itself. This is not the newest iteration of revolutionary theory built on past successes and failures, it is a theoretical reflection of the reality of a lack of theory.

>>2699023
And this is exactly what they bourgeoisie are telling them about us right this moment, while they hand them big bags of money :( Who will they choose? (it's the people handing them bags of money)

OP is mostly correct. If people want to know one major reason that the centralized leninist underground won't work, look up F3EAD – it's what the US did in Iraq.

>>2699790
Oh also you totally missed the point I made about insurrection. Insurrection (in the sense used historically by communists and in the context of SUCCESSFUL revolutions) is an organized military operation which moves the insurgents from strategic defensive into strategic stalemate. It's not riots (which is again what you describe). "Demonstrating capacity" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard (not that you're wrong, this is aimed at the gayreeks). It's either reformist (trying to pressure the bourgeois state) or just stupid and suicidal (giving the state a reason to intensify repression, possibly alienating themselves from the population by engaging in pointless violence, and letting the state do surveillance to map all militants while they're out in the streets).

>>2700022
It's a modern targeting methodology? Want to talk more about it? I don't think any methodology makes the state omnipotent.

>>2700013
>>that marxist critiques of capitalism are meaningless

Who said this? I'm using dialectical materialism to analyze the difference of social relations in modern capitalism, and how that reproduces different forms of class struggle. Marxism isn't a linear formula of observation to apply the same singular expectations from conditions that differ.

Historical materialism applied to modern surveillance, precarity, territorial dispersal, urbanized dispersed working class, produces different conclusions than when applied to industrial concentration, factory production, centralized state rudimentary state power. The "old ideas" you claim to have heard are your own projection. The actual content here within the ideas of distributed coordination, political wing separation, is not what Marx or Lenin wrote to a T. It's what observation of contemporary movements, analysis of their failures, and attention to the appropriate material conditions produces.

>>I don't even take a huge issue with that last part
>>when they're brought under the umbrella of a larger organization that coordinates actions and distributes resources

This is precisely why I believe there has to be a solidified REVOLUTIONARY COMMUNIST political wing, that is capable of operating above ground; separate from the distributed network, yet only on paper. I explained excessively how these relationships already exist without the solid organizing capacity and unity behind it (which is why MAGA politicians and podcasters call for DSA people to be arrested for not prosecuting rioters, or even lawyers who fund their defense for free). The political wing includes more than simply a Party; it's an entire body of organs that have specific functions that function above ground. The political wing serves as umbrella in specific sense, it provides legitimacy that protects network activity from immediate criminalization, generates resources that support network infrastructure, mobilizes above ground activity, gives platform for the distributed vanguard to act upon, as well generating news networks and creating overall, institutional access that network capacity alone cannot achieve. The network provides the political wing with cadre, community base, and tactical capacity; the political wing provides the network with legal cover, resource generation, and public visibility and infrastructure. Each enables the others existence; this already exists, but unfortunately in relationship to more reformist and liberal political wings. Honestly in the past even if it's been with leftist organizations the relationship was more parasitic than symbiotic because they have not committed to serving a revolutionary role; SYRZIA out of Greece following the social tension is a perfect example of this actually.

>>You don't understand the need for a coordinating organization

Again… did you miss my claim that there needs to be a solidified, revolutionary political wing coexistent to the distributed vanguards tactical wing of peoples war and mass movement? This is precisely the issue. The power and attention generated through distributed vanguard gains is already constantly captured by political parties and NGOs with a lack of this solidified relation.

>>We'll only be able to overcome the moment by attempting to grow a more singular organization that can tell people
>>what needs to be done in their area and lets them rest easy

The proposition assumes that organizational scale requires rigid hierarchical concentration, that telling people what to do requires singular structure, Consider the mathematics. A singular organization with centralized command, node degree distribution concentrated in single hub. Probability of organizational survival under targeted repression scales inversely with hub vulnerability. The compromise probability of top leadership is high, given visibility and concentration. The impact of a compromise would be near total, given information concentration and command dependency. The expected organizational lifetime would be short, given these parameters.

The singular underground organization faces structural constraints that distributed networks inherently avoid. Centralized command concentrates vulnerability; leadership is visible, mappable, and targetable. State security apparatuses excel at penetrating hierarchical structures through informants, surveillance, and selective pressure. The historical record is consistent; in modern USA and EU centralized clandestine organizations survive months or years, rarely decades, and their collapse is typically total rather than partial.

The claim is that there will be methods of remaining anonymous, yet growth in centralized form produces visibility that invites repression. Each new member expands the attack surface; each additional layer of hierarchy creates new points of potential compromise; each extension of geographic reach strains communication security. Each time a person gets caught, the entire organization is inherently at risk. The organization becomes efficient and fragile, optimal yet clearly temporary in the modern GWOT urbanized world.

Distributed networks operate through different logic. Inherent Compartmentalization limits exposure, compromise of any node reveals minimal network topology. Redundancy ensures function persists through node loss. Local autonomy enables replication without visible central coordination, growth without visibility, adaptation without command. The Irish Republican Army maintained capacity for decades; this was due to their willingness to adapt the a semi-autonomous structure. The SEMI part worked because most IRA leaders during the troubles could easily reach safety over the border to the republic and many rarely crossed it.

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clandestine_cell_system

>>Officially, the PIRA was hierarchical, but as British security forces became more effective it changed to a semiautonomous model for its operational and for certain of its support cells (such as transportation, intelligence, cover, and security).[5] Its leadership saw itself as guiding and as building consensus. The lowest-level cells, typically of 2–5 people, tended to be built from people with existing personal relationships. British counterinsurgents could understand the structure, but not the workings of the operational cells.


The singular organization's claim to efficiency clear command, rapid decision, unified action proves illusory under modern repression. Decapitation produces paralysis; infiltration produces paralysis; ideological dispute produces fracturing schism. The distributed network is the observation of the organizational form militancy is bound to take under modernized conditions. Material conditions determine this outcome surely. Contemporary surveillance enables easy mapping of hierarchical structures; preventive counter-insurgency enables neutralization before scale; The singular underground organization is designed for conditions that no longer exist. Again, its persistence as the organizational ideal reflects nostalgia rather than materialist analysis. I said it a hundred times, the lack of willingness to accept this model does not negate the fact that it is the modern norm due to MATERIAL CONDITIONS rather than ideological choice.

Not only do most of us who realize this, analyze this topic rigorously in multiple ways over the years; We constantly read through the reports of the bourgeois security apparatus's open networks of intelligence. The apparatus, in its own extensive documentation, consistently identifies the decentralized network topology as its most persistent operational challenge; the exact organizational model this framework observes and attempts to systematize into something more complex. Those who acknowledge the distributed network have read millions of papers on state security reports, and had countless people sit down and break the info down in the same way these homeland security backed think tanks do.

>>He described the strategy as “nothing less than a fundamental departure in theories of organization,” marking a transition from the traditional hierarchical, pyramid model of organised violence to one of autonomous cells. Since 1992, extremists from across the ideological spectrum have adopted leaderless resistance as the standard operating procedure for their respective movements.

>>Another social movement, however, has been employing the strategy of leaderless resistance with a much higher degree of success.

>>Though the ELF‘s acts are less severe than those of Timothy McVeigh or Eric Rudolph,25 they are far more numerous. James Jarboe, the FBI‘s top domestic terrorism officer, linked the ELF to 600 criminal acts committed between 1996 and 2002

>>As a consequence of this frequent and escalating leaderless resistance, John Lewis, an FBI deputy assistant director and top official in charge of domestic terrorism, labeled eco-terrorism, along with animal liberation as the #1 domestic terrorism threat in 2005

>>Thus far, academic literature pertaining to leaderless resistance has focused on its use as an effective strategy for avoiding detection, infiltration, and prosecution by a powerful state.

>>In this article, I argue that the strategy of leaderless resistance has another benefit - one most easily enjoyed by social movements that display a high degree of ideological diversity;

>>In effect, the ELF‘s use of leaderless resistance creates an overlapping political consensus among those with vastly different ideological orientations, mobilizing a mass of adherents that would have never been able to find unanimity of purpose in an organization characterized by a traditional, hierarchical, authority structure.

>>In short, in using leaderless resistance, the ELF allows its adherents to be fluid in belief while still mobilizing them to commit direct actions‘ for a specific cause or result


(I've literally read policing connected think tanks write that this presented a challenge in using slight ideal differences to split and fracture a group before they can commit action)

>>the ELF does not directly recruit members to a pre-existing organization, but rather encourages people to start their own micro-organizations to further ELF‘s ends. In an introductory video to the ELF, publicist Craig Rosebraugh claims there‘s no realistic chance of becoming active in an already existing cell.Take initiative; form your own


>>There is no doubt that, initially, the impetus for the ELF‘s adoption of the leaderless resistance strategy was the same as that of the American radical right; to avoid state detection, infiltration, and prosecution by powerful government agencies. Once implemented, however, it became clear that leaderless resistance also allows the ELF to avoid fracture.

Source:

https://ualberta.scholaris.ca/server/api/core/bitstreams/906f70eb-c5af-4991-8dd5-9e76a50710e6/content

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274172371_Leaderless_Resistance_The_New_Face_of_Terrorism

https://www.asisonline.org/security-management-magazine/articles/2024/01/extremism/leaderless-resistance/

>>There's nothing more powerless than purely local actions and isolated grouplets

Most working people have to act locally, in accordance with an understanding and connection to the global.

>>I'm not just drawing from the bolsheviks but from many other communist parties - the successes as well as failures

Explain, because most of the existing Communist Party in the modern west is a bunch of revisionists who would be more likely to defend parliament than storm it. Show me, where a singular centralized organization has shown it holds the ability to engage in any form of mass disruption, or protracted peoples war without immediately being attacked and infiltrated. Then demonstrate to me, how this applies to current modern conditions and where? That's exactly what I've continuously done, because I am not arguing for an idea, yet simply observing a material reality that exists.

>>We aren't currently winning

While the state of the U.S. empire in relation to global markets / politics and the contradictions of capitalism is the reason for the current movement of fascism in the US form, it's also a reaction. The reactionary mobilization was drawn out steadily over the years, through waves of networks engaging in resistance specifically against white supremacy and the policing behind it; with each wave of rupture; from Ferguson, to 2020 intensity grew, because capacity of networks strengthened in not just numbers, but skills. Trump's victory and his movement first mobilized around the unrest being caused, and positioned himself as the "strong man movement" to stop it. Look at everything that's happened over the years and the result; You claim we aren't currently winning, and I say of course WE STARTED on the "losing class". Right now the waters may appear calm, but when the wave returns and crashes to shore, it will be clear that the calm was only the quiet before the storm. People are wiser, and not falling into bait of repetition. You see losing, well, actually.. everything is moving along just as expected all things considered.

>>2700024

I definitely maintain that my assessment in no way misconstrues the character of the December 2008 events in Greece, nor did I assert that they constituted a fully developed proletarian insurrection model. Rather, I characterized them as a profound moment of rupture, a breach in the seamless reproduction of capitalist social relations that far transcended the episodic, localized character of a mere riot.

In my earlier exposition, I sought to delineate why potentially insurrectionary conjunctures in the contemporary metropolis (such as modern Athens) manifest in forms qualitatively distinct from those of early 20th-century Russia. The absence of a mass, organized industrial proletariat concentrated in large-scale factory production; the fragmentation and precarization of labor under post-industrial revolution accumulation; the centrality of youth as a dispossessed stratum bearing the brunt of capitalist crisis; race / neo-colonialisms new shape and the shift in state repressive apparatuses toward permanent counter-insurgency policing; all these materially conditioned differences render any mechanical transposition of historical templates inadequate. This historical contextualization was either overlooked or tacitly rejected by you, comrade.

A serious engagement with the true scope and duration of the Greek events weeks of generalized urban conflict, widespread attacks on symbols / functions of capital, occupations of public institutions, sustained sieges of police stations, and the emergence of low-intensity armed confrontations reveals an intensity and breadth incompatible with the category of “riot” in its conventional, depoliticized sense. This was far from a spontaneous outburst of “leftist anger,” the revolt entailed a protracted youth-led assault on the circuits of economic and social reproduction, provoking in turn a fascist reaction from segments of the state and civil society, as well as embryonic forms of armed struggle.

To grasp such phenomena adequately, one must move beyond the ossified schemas of classical Marxism and engage contemporary Marxist analyses that historicize the transformations of class composition, the crisis of social reproduction under neoliberalism, and the shifting terrain of revolutionary possibility. Insurrection is not a fixed teleological formula to be mechanically applied; it is a historically specific ART of praxis, emerging contingently from the concrete conditions of exploitation and oppression, and from the decisive (or indecisive) interventions of the oppressed classes in their confrontation with capital and its state. A deeper materialist inquiry into the Greek conjuncture of 2008 and its aftermath would, I suggest, confirm rather than refute this observation I made.

I'm not sure why the article choice name is such a sticking point it's just an interview with one person directly involved in those events, offering a firsthand glimpse of what happened. I understand that CrimethInc (like much of the more radical left media) can sometimes use sarcastic or exaggerated language, but along with Democracy Now!, it was one of the few sources at the time that published direct interviews with people on the ground in that period of Greek resistance. Crimethinc also regularly publish action report-backs and analysis of actual struggles rather than pure theory, which I find valuable for leftists across the spectrum.

>>demonstrate capacity
>>stupid


>>A 16-year old leftist, barely out of childhood yet already awake to the contradictions tearing through our world, stands in the streets with a comrade. Two bullets, fired at point-blank range by a grown cop, armored and backed by the full apparatus of the state. The shots ring out in the open air, the body drops, warm blood pools on the cold pavement, and the life of someone who could have been any of our younger siblings, any future comrade, is extinguished in seconds. No warning that justifies it, no threat that matches the lethal response, just the raw exercise of capitalist domination asserting itself against a kid who dared to be in far left / anarchist spaces.

Within the hour, the streets respond. Not in blind chaos, no not as some impulsive outburst of individual anger, but as a collective surge of cells, and individuals motivated by them and the contradictions of neo-liberalism on full display with lead entering flesh. Multiple people, neighbors, friends, strangers drawn by the same wounds and interests move toward the scene, confronting the line of riot gear and flashing lights with all the things they perfect, trained, and provided materials for. They did not dissolve and scatter; they persist, and spread like fire in a dense dry forest. Barricades rise from whatever's at hand, voices entering labor strikes amplify through megaphones and shared fury, and the energy doesn't dissipate with the first dispersal order. It holds. It builds. For a full month, that rupture doesn't close. Demonstrations swell night after night, occupations of offices and centers of capital and state / media function form, mutual aid networks deepen, workers reclaim their nights and days, even if just for a moment from the grasp of the state and capital. This persistence isn't spectacle or simple riot, it's a sustained, organized refusal; vigils that turn into assemblies, assemblies that turn into blockades, blockades that force the security apparatus to reveal its exhaustion. It was sustained for a month-long boiling towards armed struggle for a reason; because the seriousness isn't negotiable; it's etched in the fact that a child's life was taken so casually, and the response mirrors the depth of that violation.

If, in the face of this violation, you still treat the killing as minor, and "displaying capacity" as "stupid", and the situation as not warranting that level of sustained antagonism from cells, as something the youth, the marxists and the anarchists, the agitators, the looters, should just have absorbed and moved past with "measured" tactics or endless patience, then you have nothing of value to transmit to those who tomorrow might lay in that same bloodied spot on the pavement.

Those who may soon face that muzzle flash, terrified yet resolute, have zero use for any analyses that serves to downplay the stakes, that mistake demobilization for theoretical wisdom. They need the clarity of unflinching recognition; this game isnt one to be played cooly; it is instead a live and hot antagonism where denial of its weight is itself a form of counter-revolutionary labor. If you can't map that reality without flinching, without softening the edges, then step aside. The excluded require voices that insist on the unbearable truth so the line can be drawn where it must; In moments like that, when a comrade is shot by the police, there is no retreat into fantasy, no mediation that absorbs the rupture. To sit there and dismiss the gravity of that sustained, mass-mediated refusal as tactical folly or mere riot is to perform an ideological operation that aligns uncomfortably with the state's own narrative of de-legitimizing antagonistic class struggle. It trivializes the depth of the wound of a comrade being murdered by the state and, refuses to learn of the material realities behind the successes of the rapid response from both MARXIST and ANARCHIST networks. Without understanding it's successes you cannot understand it's failures, nor can you understand the lasting general impact the situation had on Greek society (and arguably beyond).

>>2700440
holy Chat GPT can you actually write something real instead of getting some retarded bot to?

>>2700446

Shut up fed. Go buy a chair and some rope, or come back with something better. Maybe this will be easier for you to consume, since bare minimum attempts at theory explanation and work citing makes you think I am a BOT. Now go scurry off back into whatever hole you belong in, you swine.

>>2700453
>In my earlier exposition, I sought to delineate why potentially insurrectionary conjunctures in the contemporary metropolis (such as modern Athens) manifest in forms qualitatively distinct from those of early 20th-century Russia.

No one real talks or types like this you fucking CLANKER. You could have just said "here is why rioting in modern Greece is different from riots in 20th century Russia" but you HAD to hit the AI slopify button to "beautify" your very simple idea with a shitton of unnecessary verbiage to make it seem longer, simply because you think it makes your post look better, like the fucking retard that you are.

>>2700472
>>You could have just said

You only talk like this on an image board meanwhile in person that's where I'd put your teeth on the floor, and the fun part is I could talk to you like that If i wanted to without you being able to do a damn thing to me trust me.

Now go on now, get.

>>2700474
In person I'd fucking rape you to death I am 100% sure I am the only person on this entire shithole who works out regularly because I was planning to volunteer for the Russian military to go fight in Ukraine.

>>2700481

Yeah I'm surely not phased by any of that, I was in WMCC for over 3 years. I only work out, and read; everyone here who is able bodied must do the same, as well as build upon the capacity of survivalist skills. Sadly, now I can only bow hunt; which I still am privy to. Now if I consented before you stuck it in, would that negate your success? I see no reason for all the occurring contretemps in this thread. I have a certain way of typing theory, especially when It is done in my native tongue and then translated. In English I tend to the informal street speak side, especially when the method of communication is vocal.

>>2700481
What's stopping you from going big boy. Why are you threatening rape on the internet instead of defending evrasia?

>>2700387

curious about the practical side in a U.S. context? with FBI backed by NSA-level dragnet surveillance + fusion centers feeding local PDs, how do you even begin embedding without getting mapped and neutralized early? Encrypted Signal groups? Burner comms? Physical dead drops? Are you in a cell, how do you recruit? The nodes… are they something who currently still exists or did they go away and give up after 2020? I always have wondered what happened with that.

but real talk how do you keep a distributed thing from just fizzling out after the big moment? like minneapolis 2020 had mad energy then poof, everyone went back to scrolling?? or what is everyone up to? the vanguard idea you got sounds cool, like sneaky smart people embedding and steering without looking like they’re in charge. asking for a friend lmao, also quick side q about the age thing bc i keep seeing it pop up in these threads most of the street heat seems to come from the zoomer kids right? or is most of the network older.. or we talkin theres freshies like 18-23 yr olds who were basically teenagers when george floyd happened? then you got the older heads in their 30s who’ve been thru occupy or whatever and they try to “guide” but half the time the young ones are like “ok boomer go touch grass”.

I REALLLY want to know more about this going on Minneapolis if you can tell me?

>>2700493
Was rejected by the Russians because I don't know how to speak/write in Russian and they didn't want some anglo who could only communicate in english.

>>2700472
>>you could have just said here is why rioting in modern Greece is different from riots in 20th century Russia"

they didnt because thats not at all what hey were saying, you brain dead low autism score cop. I swear half the people here are just agents and the other half like all fucking zoomer leftists seem to not read theory at all.. then they do read it and it's "oh i read marx we good" and the mother fuckers stop reading. nobody reads any marxist text past 1920 and are used to modern theory being served to them twitter form. leftists used to be buried in books, essays and constantly writing. Social media jargon took the place.

are there seriously zero leftist tor spaces?

i would've thought there would be at least one or two due to how many useless junk onion sites there are

>>2700387

dont listen to a word this crackpot says hes a gang member who is contributing to the downfall of socialism with his nonsense agenda of gang control

>>2700650
I haven't seen any. It's drug dealers, pedos, and tech enthusiast spaces that get taken over by right wing edgelords. Even if they existed I doubt they'd have much traffic, considering how all the clearnet left forums are doing

>>2701140
>gang member
?

There must be centralism though

>>2700387

This is bullshit written by an idiot who thinks he's smart because he's so dumb he went to prison for poisoning the community, then tried to play it like it's because the distributed vanguard worked he got cointelpro'd. yeah right guy, it's not 1970 anymore cops aren't planting bricks on people because of some unrest. He's a known gang member, and an agitator…. lovely combo do not listen to follow or engage in anything this hood says. Stop playing stupid games.

>>2701405


I'm not the person you responded to but this asshole is a gang member for sure……

>>2701405


https://www.justice.gov/usao-edmo/pr/five-arrested-accused-st-louis-linked-cocaine-conspiracy

Mr JUCHE is a gang member linked to this . horrible but makes sense how much he idolizes the gangster north korean government and the obsession with peoples war. it's going to stop, do not follow it. It's better to have a leader, central and in the open so its connected to the public. end of story. not some invisible gang of shadow puppets nahhh nope.

>>2701483

He will be going back again if he wants to FAFO.

Why are anti-surveillance projects like tor and i2p only used by libertarians, pedophiles, and libertarian pedophiles. Every single one of you uses Windows, has Intel ME running, and saves everything to onedrive.

>>2701483
LMFAO this has to be distributed vanguard poster samefagging because what in the fed? One dude creating AI walls of text telling us that we should imagine a secret conspiracy behind spontaneous isolated resistance and never try to organize these people together except out in the open, and another dude also saying to only organize out in the open with identifiable leadership and pushing that he's a criminal bcuz muh drugs. This is either fed on fed action or one retard shadowboxing

>>2701510
It's because no one is serious. Nearly all communist organizations in the imperialist countries are led by people too comfortable to have any incentive for revolution, so they just play. Also no one knows history because it's intentionally buried. They don't understand what they're fighting against.

At least the Italians are leet. (n)PCI shills tails and pgp, and there's autistici/inventati

>>2701515

Prettyyyy sure Ive heard the juche douche is a DEA informant. Not sure if true but makes sense that he'd be trying to create even more confusion shadowboxing, false ideas and ineffective methods being promoted. Generally just a stupid idea his ideas are stupid. I'm not anti drug but heh it does speak to his piss poor moral compass. Imagine thinking you got arrested and setup because of the trivial bs going on in ferguson. Yeah the police arent setting anybody up over a overhyped sports riot with loose political demands. Brother you went to jail because you sell fucking crack.

>>2701518

Tell me more about the italian anarchist and marxists tors is that how people join the distributed affinity?? just curious i think the ideas stupid but if i could see a basic layout of their network interaction base then maybe ill get it.

>>2701483
Are you crazy? He said he was arrested and served 4 years already. This is a random drug bust from a few months ago. The said part is that a lot of people here are stupid to believe it.
>>2701515
>>2701519
Probably just samefagging anyways.

>>2701525

You believe his story..? thats rich hes an antisemitic drug dealer that got caught, not a revolutionary. He's borderline schizophrenic or on methamphetamine he thinks that people killed his friends for some stupid little riot…. brother spawns up bs theories in his head. Don't follow anything idiots like him said. Just stay home in the next 10 months and dont follow them or anyone like them. Heis posting multiple times talking to himself, making up fake mysterious death of imaginary friend scenarios up. It's sad hes clearly sick and mentally unwell shame how bad America's mental health services are.

>>2701520
I'm not the distributed person, I just stan the Italians. They're the most advanced within the imperialist countries imo

>>2701528
sussy baka

Adventurism is a meaningful way of resisting when there is no organizing capability.

Political assassinations are cool again and you should do more of them, burning down datacenters is good praxis, sending anthrax to your politicians is a solid idea

there is no future so all that is left is revenge, total murder of the capitalism class is the bare minimum

>>2701564
So what is your alternative?

They say the best way to use tor is through Tails OS but I think you're a fool to trust any of this is secure.

https://tails.net/

>>2701572
Depression

>>2701580
I've heard quebes OS is the best for privacy. because of the compartmentalization and stuff

>>2701580
>>2701797
I second this. There are some use cases for a live OS, but qubes is superior in every other way (except stability). It makes it very easy to route all your traffic however you like, as well as provides resistance against malware. Also you can go the qubes forum and always see lolberts seething and calling the mods feds so definitely based. My only issue is updating manually is a pain, and the updater breaks easily. Also good if you're bad at tech because backups of each vm are stored so you can just revert to a past working version if you break something. Just make sure that you change the settings so it's a decent number of backups and don't restart the qube too many times or you'll push out all your good saves.

>do something
Any call to action is voluntarism and thats bad okay?