>>2698832>Or you end up mysteriously dead like the Ferguson organizers, the cops drop a bomb on your house like the MOVE bombing, or kick in your door at night and murder you like Fred Hampton. Even still, there are workers uprisings in America, it's just that these fail because like the slave uprisings they lack the resources and degree of participation to be successful. If slaves get credit for their failed uprisings then we should also credit failed worker's uprisings like Occupy, the George Floyd riots, etc.Bro this fear of death existed in literally every revolution in history. Even in ancient greece or china if you rose against the kings you would be put to death. Yet people still did it anyway when times were rough and society needed change. It just isn't a sufficient excuse for why "this time in particular, death is too scary" when people are dying all over the world fighting for their beliefs at this very moment, just not Americans. What makes Americans so special that they think they can solve an existential crisis by just waiting it out?
>>2698835>Nat Turner was a house slaveno he wasn't… every single source about him dating from the time of his capture and execution says he was a field slave, who made claims of having receive religious visions while working in the field, to use as a rhetorical basis for the uprising.
>>2698840>Bro this fear of death existed in literally every revolution in history. Even in ancient greece or china if you rose against the kings you would be put to death.ok the conversation literally started with anon saying it's "low risk", we respond and say "no it's high risk" and now you change tactics and go "duh it's high risk, you just gotta buck up buttercup." you think we don't notice that?
>>2698839Being alive is a treat if you think about it
>>2698838>shot in the head by the IRGClol, i'll go to jail before i serve the burger reich
>>2698841Then I’m confusing him with some of the Haitian high command
>>2698842Comparatively it is low risk though. You have a lot of ways to get a message out without exposing yourself to the wrath of the state. Mass executions are also not likely to happen, at least not in the imperial core. Compared to Gaza where they frequently massacre entire neighborhoods to create lebensraum for Israeli settlers, American rebels have it easy. Just kill your enemies before they're aware of you and you win.
>>2698848> American rebels have it easyexcept it's high risk because most Americans won't be rebels but defenders of the regime. Our white army will be twice the size of our red army. Even the proles will join the white army because of false consciousness.
>>2698850Until all the electrical grid is down and the grocery stores are empty it’s not rational for lower and middle class Americans to stop cooperating. Even then the middle class especially is gonna try to reestablish the status quo ante.
>>2698850>Our white army will be twice the size of our red army.What are you basing this assumption on? 50% of Americans will do anything to spite Elon Musk and the other 50% will do anything to suck his dick. Why are you such a pessimist when it comes to support for billionaires?
>>2698840>Yet people still did it anyway when times were rough and society needed changeMost of the time they didn't though, and when they did most of the time they failed. That's my point. There is nothing special about American workers in this regard. A century or so of servility isn't remarkable when you consider that it took Chinese peasants thousands of years of servitude before they finally rose up and formed a government by and for themselves. This is part of why all this treatlerite discourse is so stupid, because it treats what is essentially the ordinary condition of class society as some kind of abhorrent deviation from the expected norm, but really the opposite is true. The acquiescence of the oppressed class is the normal and typical state of affairs most of the time. Uprisings happen, but they are noteworthy because they are a break from the ordinary, and they almost always fail. I think that our expectations are skewed because the 19th and 20th centuries were very abnormal in terms of the frequency and success of revolutionary activity.
>>2698853Most people will claim to hate billionaires from their iphones and microsoft computers on jeffery epstein founded internet, it’s not real
>>2698857Mfs are really out here saying "iPhone Vuvuzela" like some braindead Fox News boomer. The absolute state of this place.
>>2698847>Then I’m confusing him with some of the Haitian high commandYeah, Louverture I believe started off as a slave, became an overseer, but not necessarily a house slave, then got his freedom, and also became a slave owner himself, before starting the Haitian revolution. Prior to Louverture there were escaped slaves who did guerilla warfare in the mountains, called "Maroons." Dutty Bookman was one of their leaders I think, he was sort of the precursor to Louverture. But yeah there was some ex-slaves, house slaves, overseers, and even black slave owners leading the Haitian revolution.
>>2698860If you can’t even get most of the public to do BDS, you’re not gonna get them pointing guns at cops, soldiers, and politicians.
>>2698863That must be why several states had to make supporting BDS illegal lmao.
>>2698866The state is overreactive to college students in order to set an example
>>2698853most Americans hate billionaires but would fight for the small business owner. If we have a revolution it will likely be more Proudhonist in tone and have Rooseveltian anti-monopolist (Teddy) and new deal (Franklin) style reforms as their final goal rather than a total upending of capitalism. America would rather use revolution as an opportunity to put band aids on capitalism than to get rid of it.
>>2698872That's honestly so much worse than I could have imagined.
>>2698870That’s what the next election and or military coup will be, and it will miserably fail at it the same exact way Obama and Biden and Trump and everyone since Nixon all failed.
>>2698873It’s not that ZOG is real, it’s that us and Israel are fundamentally the same type of people, that’s why they’ve been so successful even against real hard hitting lobbies like Qatar, Saudi, Armenia, Turkey, and so on. Especially to our octogenarian political class who still thinks it’s the world conquering IDF of 1967.
>>2698870I never understood why leftists claim it's hard to advertise Marxism to Americans because "muh private property muh small business owners" or that an educated wealthy working class can't be turned into Marxists because they love the myth of entrepreneurship too much.
I just explain it to them as "Marxism is just an economy without landlords, speculators, scammers, middle-men, and rentseekers" and it usually clicks for the average wagie.
That people should be paid for the value of their labor instead of being based on speculation is a huge point of argument against Capitalism. A wage worker will still earn a wage under Market Socialism. Home owners will still exist under Socialism, you just only own the home you live in because that's what homes are for: living in. A small business will still sell products to consumers under Market Socialism. The difference is in the economic backbone of your society being organized around productive labor and not speculative labor. Which is why China has more small businesses than America and the largest fast food chain in the world is Chinese despite being a Communist country, and 90% of Chinese people own their own home despite Communists not being allowed to have private property apparently.
We don't need to care what the right frames us as. We only need to care how we position ourselves in winning the American workers to our side.
>>2698875>that’s why they’ve been so successful even against real hard hitting lobbies like Qatar, Saudi, Armenia, Turkey, and so on.What are you even talking about? All those groups are allied with Israel.
>>2698879Firstly Armenia’s only real friend is Iran, secondly they’re all competing for influence
>>2698878This. I've never bought the claim that most people are against socialism because they think of themselves as "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" or anything like that. Most people are against it because they don't know what it is or what it means, and they are bombarded every minute of every day with propaganda designed to ensure that they never find out. If you actually sit somebody down and explain the basics to them 9/10 times they will agree with the fundamentals.
>>2698878So how many have you organized that way?
>>2698882how many people have you radicalized by being a pessimist?
>>2698878>That people should be paid for the value of their labor instead of being based on speculation is a huge point of argument against Capitalismbut marx said "instead of the reactionary slogan, a fair day's wages for a fair day's work, our slogan should be abolition of the wages system"
also, in marxism, labor does not have value. labor power, as a commodity does.
you can vulgarize marxism to "reach people" but that usually results in them having a Proudhonist ideology calling itself Marxism.
>>2698884The military is not doing that, they know they’d be dealing with fragging and deserters and mutinies immediately
>>2698882>So how many have you organized that way?Lol, was about to ask that to both:
>>2698881>>2698878I think where a lot of leftists, especially the college kid, or never worked a minimum wage job type leftists really miss the point is that people are already "class-conscious." Most people don't like their fucking bosses, most people feel like they're being screwed by the system(the system, being their employer, their government, the rich, etc.) But that is no reason for them to want to stick their neck out for some far-fetched vision you're selling them.
On top of that, I feel for so many of the real hardcore communist types, it's as much a cultural thing as it is anything else. It's not real communism unless we "go around carrying pictures of chairman Mao" and larping as Bolsheviks and all that. You're never going to get the mass of people to care about any of that fetish.
>>2698887Marx wasn’t very harsh on the Paris Commune despite its mostly Proudhonist ideology.
>>2698887I don't care what Marx said, he isn't a prophet. Stop letting a dead man from 200 years ago dictate your political strategy as if it's dogma. It doesn't work to just take Marx's word verbatim you have to adapt it to your political environment. If Mao, Lenin, etc just copied Marx we wouldn't have MLM, Dengism, or all the other separate forms of leftist thought.
>>2698890> It's not real communism unless we "go around carrying pictures of chairman Mao" and larping as Bolsheviks and all that. You're never going to get the mass of people to care about any of that fetish.well the key is, and I hate to say this, the national characteristics. venezuelans praise Bolivar in their revolutionary imagery despite him being a bourgeois slave owner like washington.
>>2698892Well you said Marxism so I was just correcting you there. I don't believe in prophets, but I do think words have definitions.
>>2698833Healthcare is a treat in the sense that it is a good that if conceded by the ruling class of the USA to it's proletariat, would de-radicalize them. History has shown that if the material interest of the working class in a country can be aligned with that of it's capitalist class and both are put in opposition to the material interest of the working class of a foreign nation, then a country can be mobilized in genocidal and/or settler-colonial projects with little to no internal opposition.
>>2698893I’m decently sure that a not insignificant portion of socialists would sooner shoot themselves than say something like “we need to save our country” or something.
>>2698899>Marx thought reformist rhetoric was a valid path to achieving Socialism by agitating the workersI didn't say otherwise. i merely said
<you can vulgarize marxism to "reach people" but that usually results in them having a Proudhonist ideology calling itself Marxism.i.e. "do it, just don't be surprised at the results."
>In fact that was the exact context for the famous 'If anything is certain, it is that I am not a Marxist" quote.this quote was him admitting that most of the movements calling themselves marxists at the time had not done the reading.
>>2698893I mean like for most people, it's like "hammer and sickle or nothing" is a hammer and sickle relevant to anything nowadays? How many people don't even know what a sickle is? It's turning into like a Christianity thing where we have to eternally emblazen obsolete symbology everywhere. Like you can't be a Christian until you're properly educated on ancient Jewish and Roman history and you can understand all the backstory of what a crucifixion even is. But how are peasants even relevant to our current situation and story? It's like, ok the USSR was cool, we get it, but like we need to stop making everything about the damn USSR. It's gone, just let it go bro.
If you look at it "Neo-Nazis" also suffer from the same problem. Tying themselves to the symbols of another defeated nation.
>>2698893At least Simon Bolivar went to Haiti then became an abolitionist
>>2698898 (me)
But I would avoid the term treat because first worlders responds very emotionally to the term and it shuts them down.
>>2698902>It's turning into like a Christianity thing where we have to eternally emblazen obsolete symbology everywhere. Like you can't be a Christian until you're properly educated on ancient Jewish and Roman historymost christians don't know shit about that lol. i mean ffs renaissance painters were painting roman soldiers in contemporary armor. That would be like if we showed Jesus crucified in blue jeans.
>>2698905Healthcare being largely dependent on your employer makes it a form of labor discipline, which is sort of true of most treats but even more so with health insurance
>>2698907the vast majority of workers don't even get healthcare from their employer i'm pretty sure. retail and fast food workers aren't getting SHIT.
>>2698898>Healthcare is a treat in the sense that it is a good that if conceded by the ruling class of the USA to it's proletariat, would de-radicalize them. History has shown that if the material interest of the working class in a country can be aligned with that of it's capitalist class and both are put in opposition to the material interest of the working class of a foreign nation, then a country can be mobilized in genocidal and/or settler-colonial projects with little to no internal opposition.except, and we've said this to you a thousand times before… they aren't giving us healthcare. they're actually cutting education, cutting healthcare privatizing, deregulating ,failing to even upkeep basic infrastructure. What they're actually doing is making the police and military budgets higher while cutting everything else, and making the police and military and have higher wages and health care while nobody else has anything. that is how they incentivize collaboration. not by giving healthcare to everyone in exchange for imperialist loyalty.
>>2698910>not by giving healthcare to everyone in exchange for imperialist loyalty.(but rather, instead, withholding from everyone UNLESS they are bourgeois or a collaborator)
>>2698910> they aren't giving us healthcareI didn't say they were. Who do you think I am? This is an anonymous imageboard. Do you understand that? And don't read into what I write things that aren't there.
>>2698910They still have more healthcare relative to anyone in the third world
>>2698916Americans literally travel over the border to Mexico for healthcare rather than visit a hospital here lmfao.
>>2698916we pay more for health care than any other first world country, by a lot
>>2698914idk if you follow the threads but this comes up a lot
>>2698917that's partly because of price gouging, but also because of our currency hegemony. once the dollar is much weaker from inflation it will no longer be a viable strategy
>>2698919Having the worst healthcare in the first world is better than the best healthcare in the third world, that’s the point
>>2698920not necessarily true
>>2698921Outside of China, Vietnam, and Cuba it’s really fucking bleak
>>2698890>Most people don't like their fucking bosses, most people feel like they're being screwed by the system(the system, being their employer, their government, the rich, etc.) But that is no reason for them to want to stick their neck out for some far-fetched vision you're selling them. This is a huge part of it. When it comes to communism in general it becomes pretty difficult to get people to believe in the overthrow of all existing social conditions simply because such a thing is hard to even imagine, and even harder to see as plausible. Even more immediate stuff like forming a union has to compete with the fact that most people don't want to risk their livelihoods or confront their bosses when the outcome is uncertain and could make things worse. This is why it takes a lot more than misery or desperation for there to be a serious chance of revolutionary change. This is also why the vast majority of dissent is easily herded into approved channels, because even when people recognize a problem and want to change it, it's still extremely difficult to envision the overthrow of ruling institutions. That requires the paralysis or collapse of the existing order, in such an obvious and complete way that not only is the legitimacy of its ideology shattered, but alternatives start to seem realistic.
Take the English Civil War as an example, a conflict that was effectively England's bourgeois revolution, but which began over pretty mundane issues amongst the gentry and nobility. What starts as a dispute between the crown and parliament over who has the authority to levy taxes creates a political crisis that destroys the authority of the monarchy, and with it the grip its ideology had on the rest of the population. Some years later you have peasants digging up common land and declaring that the Earth belongs to all, that privilege and property are evil, that all resources should be collectively owned and the benefits distributed according to need. It wouldn't have been possible without the initial crisis and civil war laying bare the emptiness of royalist/feudal ideology and allowing people to imagine alternatives. Immiseration isn't enough, it needs to come alongside a dramatic weakening of institutions AND the existence of a plausible alternative (i.e. well organized, competent revolutionaries).
Honestly I think that the wave of third world revolutions in the 20th century had less to do with the poverty of the colonized people and more to do with the actual institutional weakness of European colonial empires and/or the shaky comprador states that betrayed them. This would explain why these uprisings didn't begin in earnest until after WW2, when almost all the European colonial powers had been severely weakened by war and in most cases been themselves occupied.
>>2698927Why do they all post like Trump now? Embarrassing.
>>2698926we aren't occupied by zionists its just when a foreign country bans child abuse the american ambassador to that country goes on a tirade about the right to suck a newborn baby's foreskin as a religious freedom. perfectly normal.
>>2698927>>2698926Its genuinely surreal how they wildly oscillate between "14/88, America for Americans ONLY, FUCKIN DEI MONKEYS!" and "How could you do a HECKIN ANTISEMITISM?!" seemingly every day.
>>2698937Jews are just another form of white people like Italians or Irish
>>2698937It's almost like Nazism and Zionism are one in the same, both of which share the end goal of expelling the Jews to Israel and dividing the planet into ethnostates.
>>2698839I got a free slurpee.
>>2698951Inconvenience but not life or death for most americans.
Maybe the bureaucracy is worse than socialized healthcare, but lesd headache is not worth a civil war.
Same with food, public transport, etc.
What is a life or death issue for any sizeable demographic of americans, and what stratum do they belong to?
>>2698937The philosemitism is so weird. They fascists, in Europe often coming from butthurt revanchists very much in tune with Nazi antisemitism… sound like they are reading from the protocols, but its a good thing actually and Jew is the new masterrace.
Philosemitism is woke for fascists, sure, but with a very important difference. Woke was a distraction, as were the silly exclusionary counterparts which just don't work to the benefit of liberalism within NATO. And therefore won't be getting real institutional support. It is the opposite, for Zionism. When they do the ZOGbot routine, it is not meant to do interference. Philosemitism is meant to be adopted as is, and has the full support of the state. This shit will go as far as it is permitted and then some.
>>2698951We're like the only country where you can get into debt for medical bills, and all that costs are just to fund some rich pedophile CEO.
>>2698955Many people die since of the lacking coverage, like 40,000 by just one healthcare company I think.
>>2698839I've been playing with a new sex toy and watching pov futadom stuff, plus now eating popcorn and chilling – very well treated
I think a lot of you have no conception of the kind of resistance you face from the government because you never resisted the government. You can't really hide from them, the best you can do is be a mute who never types much into this devil machine. If you really think this thing is secure or you will get to a point where you can trust this machine, you are a fool. I assume like they have a keylogger on all my devices. Every character pressed is recorded, doesn't matter if you don't press send. If they aren't monitoring at that level, it doesn't matter, it would b e trivial for them to, they will you are a fool to not believe you're not already compromised. If I was them, I'd have pages and pages of psychometric profiles on every single citizen. AI highlighted blackmail vectors and etc. If people actually started resisting in a serious way, these clowns might get their acts together and seriously start fucking people.
>>2698947As an euro, it is so bizarre watching americans go about healthcare in terms of being "insured". Like the concept of the state not operating the health infrastructure is so alien, dystopic. Sure, liberals are trying to take that away and sneak privatization through every crack, but that only highlights the weird ass situation of the inverse. Where everything is private run and some bozo politician tries to pass giving tax money to the corporations as a sort of welfare.
It's as laughable as the "Socialists" in spain trying to pass landlord subsidies as rent control. Alas, we are all doomed to become as the Americans because there are no commies this cold war and line must go up forever, somehow.
>>2698949We're releasing the best files, folks, the ayllamo files, some call them. Our little grey ETs gonna be the greyest ETs ever, folks.
>>2698955>Inconvenience but not life or death for most americans.… you sure? sometimes it can take an entire year of jumping through hoops just to get a cancer diagnosis, and a few more months to start chemo. by that time it can go from manageable to terminal
>>2698964It's not so much about hiding from the government, the sheer amount of data they collect on every single person on this earth makes it impossible to see anything meaningful. Which is why despite the PATRIOT act being in full swing for nearly 30 years now the feds only arrest people when they receive tips either from random boomers on facebook or a social media moderator.
If you're part of the "deep web" you're functionally invisible. Not that they couldn't find you if they wanted, but that the amount of people expressing discontent towards the government on any random forum on a given day is so large that it just doesn't fucking matter. And it's in fact in their best interest to keep you online and posting into the void because it becomes a pressure relief valve for discontent. If people were actually afraid the internet was no longer "free" they might actually organize irl, and that would be terrible for porky.
>>2698974Do you know that one ex-CIA agent guy, I think he was on Jimmy Dore and he was like "I developed a software for correctly identifying terrorists through their network history, no need to store everyone's messages" and then the agency went for some datacenter shit where they had to store everyone's everything because of corruption or whatever. Anyways, that was a different world, now we have LLM AI processing and all that. Anyways, if I was them I would fuck all of us so hard. It's not hard for them, it's just that none of us pose a serious risk, for their is no need for them to go "hard in the paint."
>BREAKING: The US government now may owe US companies $175 billion in tariff refunds, per CNN
hey, the 2000 USD trump bux, where are they?
>>2698975Well also AI sucks ass and no one can code anymore
>>2698977Yeah my business I just made up could use a refund as well
>>2698977remember: usa debts mean nothing. usa debts to usa companies especially mean nothing
>>2698978AI is perfect for building a psychometric profile off your postings. This is like imaginary technology from the before times, but now it is so easy.
>>2698920>Having the worst healthcare in the first world is better than the best healthcare in the third world, that’s the pointok, but just like you compare the conditions of third world to first world, americans are also going to compare their own conditions to other first worlders. no american is going to go "i have it good because i'm not a third worlder" they're going to go "why the fuck do we pay more for health care per capita than other first world countries"
Marx:
<A house may be large or small; as long as the neighboring houses are likewise small, it satisfies all social requirement for a residence. But let there arise next to the little house a palace, and the little house shrinks to a hut. The little house now makes it clear that its inmate has no social position at all to maintain, or but a very insignificant one; and however high it may shoot up in the course of civilization, if the neighboring palace rises in equal or even in greater measure, the occupant of the relatively little house will always find himself more uncomfortable, more dissatisfied, more cramped within his four walls.
<An appreciable rise in wages presupposes a rapid growth of productive capital. Rapid growth of productive capital calls forth just as rapid a growth of wealth, of luxury, of social needs and social pleasures. Therefore, although the pleasures of the labourer have increased, the social gratification which they afford has fallen in comparison with the increased pleasures of the capitalist, which are inaccessible to the worker, in comparison with the stage of development of society in general. Our wants and pleasures have their origin in society; we therefore measure them in relation to society; we do not measure them in relation to the objects which serve for their gratification. Since they are of a social nature, they are of a relative nature.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/ch06.htmEven Marx acknowledges in ch 6 of Wage Labor and Capital that workers judge their own standard of living by the society they live in. That's why it's so irritating when you tell workers "at least you have it better than slaves in the bronze age" or "at least you have it better than third worlders" because they're not looking down at worse conditions, they're looking up at the ruling class in their own society, and sideways at similar societies, and judging their standard of living in comparison to that.
>>2698981AI is about to vibe code AWS and we won't have any Internet at all
>>2698985Good? I don't care. Fuck the devil machine. Communists used to call the TV the Idiot Box, people used to brag about not owning a TV. They got all you idiots now.
>>2698987> Communists used to call the TV the Idiot Boxi don't think idiot box came from communists, I think it just came from old people who were born before TV became popular, regardless of their political leanings lol
>>2698977>Be corporation>Tariffs are imposed on your imports>Pass the cost to the consumer>lines goes up, always<Still request a refund for the profits you didn't miss>Wagies get nothingHell yeah
>>2698993> the computer is the super devil.I should say that is my own extrapolation. The computer has the left confused, they think it is a place for them to stake out as their own.
>>2698993No I was raised by dumb boomers who loved the TV and their love of TV made me hate the TV, but I never equated my hatred of TV with communism, I just think the TV in my country is dogshit capitalist propaganda. But that's not a problem with TV itself, but with the mode of production. The USSR didn't have FOX news.
>>2698920No, you tremendous idiot.
>>2698998Aight, ok, but I was raised by an ML who hated the TV. I was very limited in the times I could watch the TV. I have encountered many leftists who like I said brag about how they don't own TVs. To watch the idiotic box and the propaganda machine (the electric Jew as right-wingers) call it is a great shame.
>>2699001Don't worry about it. It's not for you.
>>2699000I always considered it a propaganda machine.
More people used to understand this.
So did they actually try to trap Tucker Carlson or is this all a bunch of bullshit?
>>2699019bullshit
he was let go in under 2 hours
>>2699019He explained in a segment before the interview. Israel and American embassy wouldn't provide security so that's why it was in the airport, also said he had a busy schedule as another reason it was in the airport and had to be in and out. According to him it was 2 of his producers that were interrogated after the interview, Tucker wasnt detained just his staff. The person he was hugging was apparently the driver and happened before the interview.
Democrats. How long will it take for prices to go down now that tariff is gone? Before or after billions get refunded to capitalist?
amerikan leftists willingly refund amerikan monopolists hundreds of billions for but promise of cheaper treat, yet say they arent treatlerite
What have our beloved dickrider "socialist" orgs done for Cuba lately?
>>2698930Yeah, it's
exactly Trump's writing style. Perhaps they've fired up the TrumpAI ahead of time?
>The CIA discovered an awful lot about Putin’s plans to invade Ukraine, but one thing they never worked out for sure is when he first made up his mind to go all-in. Sifting through the evidence later, like detectives at a crime scene, some of the agency’s analysts pinpointed the first half of 2020 as the most likely moment.
>During those months, Putin passed constitutional amendments to ensure he could stay in power beyond 2024. Then, locked away in isolation for months during Covid, he devoured books on Russian history and pondered his own place in it.
Covid really changed everything
what have you treat-gulping baboons done to fight imperialism today?
>>2699061The dsa and Hassan are going on vacation thete soon
>>2699052Never lmao. Democrats will not lower the prices. Things will proceed like they did after 2008: Ever worse
>>2699076>ukraine war happened because cuckler read some booksthis is really how liberals think
>>2699098history is bad because cucktin reads too much history
>>2699102everyone hates billionaires but only communists are brave enough to also hate the petit bourgeois
>>2698986Americans dont want the epstein class to have a database of their kids faces. Parenti taught you that you should expect a conspiracy of the rule class "in the name of the law". 0 arrests in america and 0 arrests for the abuse crimes in general. They are just flexing you. And that company works for palantir. Life sucks.
>>2699105I don't hate the petit bourgeois.
You just want people to be slaves, I want them to be free and to have property. Most petit bourgeois are self employed. That is what a proletarian develops into under communism. If the USSR was still around it would slowly turn into the Yugoslavian model.
>>2699112>[petit bourgeois] is what a proletarian develops into under communism. If the USSRtrue but not for the reasons you think
>>2699112If the ussr were still around and its party were competent it would develop a planned economy so sophisticated it would make capitalist economies look like dinosaurs.
>>2699123"communist" who believes the problem with capitalism is that its already planned economy isnt as efficient as it "should" be
>>2698986rude owo
>>2698986don't worry, vote blue no matter who (unless if their a reformist) :^)
>>2699112>Most petit bourgeois are self employedhuh yeah thats literally the definition
>That is what a proletarian develops into under communism. absolutely not you fucking moron
>If the USSR was still around it would slowly turn into the Yugoslavian model.no, absolutely not, you obviously have 0 idea what you're talking about
>>2699138>>Most petit bourgeois are self employed>huh yeah thats literally the definitionthe petit bourgeois/middle class
es are a huge mass of which the self-employed are just a part of it
a proletarian otoh is reserveless, ie "has nothing to lose but their chains". engels in his housing question comments on this a bit, when he says that an expensive house owner is not a proletarian, or that the income of the petit bourgeois tends to rise, etc. the nature of the reserve of the middle class person over the proletarian might be of manifold nature, and there are more determinations, like the content of the work, whether it is manual or mental labor, etc. there is no single hard and fast rule as much as people cling to and misunderstand one sentence slogans
re: reserves, lets take as an example the former members of the MG at the time of its dissolution. the statement back then was that the state did not permit them to make a living due to their political convictions, and that the MG did not want to offer martyrs to the state. well, is it true that this was their only possible income? presumably not for most of them. many could have accepted a loss of status and moved to less lucrative positions. the office employee can, as a rule, still get a job doing stupid manual work, but the manual worker rarely has such an opportunity - he falls directly into pauperism
im not saying this because i want to moralise and say that they should have bent over and taken the beating, but to illustrate what distinguishes the proletarian condition from the middle class. a middle class person has a career, feels at home in their social role and identifies with it, a proletarian has a job. a middle class person can choose to move somewhere because they like it, a proletarian has to move because he needs to find work. etc
also i am aware that i am presenting you with a sociological list right now, as well as a spectrum of different aspects, rather than a simple and clear economic definition. but this is itself a property of the middle class, the fuzziness of its demarcation lines with the other classes
>>2699144>redistributionlazy bait
>>2699145What? Am i in the right place?
The whole argument marx made was redistribution of the means of production and property…
the middle class, including PB proper, isn't strictly the enemy of communists - they are the most nebulous element of capitalism and will split along lines to different groups. Some will see it as a direct attack on them and their property and join the ranks of fascists, some will recognize the need for a new system, and some will to various degrees bargain.
take what you can get from them, leave what you can't.
>>2699146theres no redistribution to be done once property gets abolished altogether lol
>>2699149tbqh it is a bit too hard of a fact to cope with for some people that the responsible employee, the good democratic citizen simply is a worthless audience
>>2699149The middle class is fake and gay. It was a man made 20th century construct. Hell i was arguing with someone about the american dream. The house with the white picket fence and the wife etc…
He said uh well thats not middle class. Im like you cant define the middle class as stated on the american dream propaganda then.
>>2699151>marx: the middle classes will grow as capitalism further develops<The middle class is fake and gay. It was a man made 20th century construct.?
>The house with the white picket fence and the wife etc… you were right tho, why would someone who has all this even try to risk going to jail protesting, much less risk their LIFE trying to abolish class society?
even if we throw away all labels nobody can answer that question without bringing up some bullshit about "ideology". i mean sure, ideology can explain some outliers, but the tendency of a whole fucking class??
>>2699146>What? Am i in the right place?no this place is entirely about trolling and hostility now. nobody explains themselves. they just call you slurs and tell you you have no idea what you're talking about. they can't quote anything, and at best they'll ask an LLM to spam emojis at you
>>2699151the "middle class" being those who are neither proletarian nor haute bourgeoisie, comprise a pretty large number of people.
>>2699153The collapse of the middle class is a pretty major reason for revolt. It's when this steady state is no longer viable that the middle class starts throwing themselves to the groups that either vow to preserve it and join the fascists, or the ones who want a new future and side with the socialists.
>>2699156the problem is that without a strong labor movement when the middle class is at risk of losing their assets/property you just get shit like ᴉuᴉlossnW or franco, and today the labor movement is even more castrated than during wwii…
>>2699158and I forgot to add that his exile in Haiti was his 4th or 5th exile, and by that point he was getting desperate and was more willing to make ideological concessions on things like slavery to receive military aid.
>>2699157I would nominally agree but I think it's a bit of a stretch to write off everyone to fascism yet.
Healthcare isn't a treat - it is literally a basic human right so you can keep living and consooming. A real double-edged sword.
>>2699157except ᴉuᴉlossnW and franco were created with a strong labor movement
>>2699162potable water is a treat
>>2699162treatlerite believers think literally anything other than the barest of necessities are treats so they can whine about americans and europeans more
>>2699151Many people will just larp as "middle class" anyways
>>2699164…dirty water just gives you cholera anyways
>>2699163finish reading the post man
<and today the labor movement is even more castrated than during wwii…>>2699162>human rightlol
you can ask for healthcare or whatever bc you view it as a necessity to you, just dont pretend making shit cheaper for everyone, proletarian or not, has anything to do with communism
>>2699157>>2699163>>2699168The fascist reaction in Europe during that time was also exacerbated by the revolutionary wave going on at the time. 🤓 In fact I'd say one of the biggest reasons the idea of fascism coming back today is so ridiculous is exactly because global communism is more dormant than ever.
>>2699168somebody's forgot that the USSR was the first country to legalise abortions
>>2699170>the ussr did it so its Communist(tm)abortions are cool but try doing some actual analysis lol
Are burguers treats ?
>>2699172Abortions are useful to control overpopulation but then more will grow old and no longer be able to work, killing the labour force slowly and slowly
>>2699169>fascism coming backit literally never left it just got exported outside the imperial core and now its coming back home because russia and china are not allowing the empire to keep expanding, do you think fascism is just when you are literally hitler?
>>2699178I'm charitably assuming this is just the midwit way of saying "liberalism absorbed the useful developments of fascism after defeating it after WWII".
>because russia and china are not allowing the empire to keep expandingAhahahaha, holy shit.
>>2699179Fascism should really be thought of less as a distinct thing (except maybe in its middle class populist incarnation like the SA) and more like a set of latent tendencies in capitalism that emerge or intensify under certain conditions.
a large part of fascist ideology was the belief of the need to conquer neighbors so the rising population has room to grow and expand and for food security, but liberalism has the exact opposite problems now, too few people are being born to support the labor pool and an oversupply of agricultural commodities, so I don't see fascism returning in the form we are all familiar with, it'll be different and take on the current global conditions, like perhaps Immigrants being the out-group (less compatible with immigrant compatible America and more compatible with ethnic focused societies like Japan Poland and perhaps India)
>>2699183I can't remember the last time when Trump actually didn't mention his American Superpower Doctrine. He never even shuts up about his schizophrenic MAGA delusions
>>2699179>Ahahahaha, holy shit.maybe that sounded cringe, I'm not saying they are anti-imperialist warriors who are trying to save the world, but Russia and China aren't vassals of the american empire and this is a problem for it, the plan was to use sanctions to break Russia's economy to force regime change so all of eastern Europe would now be subordinate to the US to contain China and it didn't work, thats why they pivoted to the western hemisphere and they did what they did in Venezuela
Does pic related not describe the type of political management the current administration is enforcing correctly?
>>2699146hes a lib who just greentexts shit he disagrees with to virtue signal instead of responding to any of the arguments
>>2699179>I'm charitably assuming this is just the midwit way of saying "liberalism absorbed the useful developments of fascism after defeating it after WWII".So you think Pinochet was just an "authoritarian liberal" and "not real fascism" just because he didn't do the "WE WUZ ROMANS AND SHIT" LARP ᴉuᴉlossnW and Hitler did or something?
Fascism doesn’t exist and never has, it’s just liberalism rebranded, there’s not a single thing Hitler or ᴉuᴉlossnW did that wasn’t done by Bismarck, Napoleon, Simon Bolivar or any of the caudillos that followed, it should be wordfiltered, it’s like getting worried about punks and metalheads, it’s a subculture and nothing else
>>2699182That sounds really nebulous and just an indirect way of exonerating liberalism, a thing that actually currently exists, from all of its faults. You could even retroactively apply it to moments of history before fascism even came to be!
The reality is that fascism became redundant and irrelevant after its defeat so the only thing we've been left with is its aesthetics, and you can see this plainly on modern neonazis and shit. Fascism is an ideal, not a mode of production, and as an ideal it's far more abstract than "socialism" or "capitalism" could ever be.
>>2699178Fascism =/= imperialism =/= bad thing
The United States was a liberal democracy while committing native genocide, having legal slave ownership, and only letting wealthy whites vote. Fascism is not a useful descriptor for our current situation.
>>2699196>That sounds really nebulous and just an indirect way of exonerating liberalismIt's very much the opposite. All liberals are fascists in waiting. All liberal democracies are pregnant with fascist autocracy.
>>2699197>Fascism =/= imperialism =/= bad thingYeah I know I posted the definition I subscribe to here
>>2699187Can you explain why it doesnt describe the current administration correctly or why is it an incorrect definition?
>>2699200youre trying so hard to virtue signal how heckin revolutionary you are that you have to defend trump online. actual leftoid behaviour
>>2699200Naziism, fascism and liberalism are all the same thing, name a single thing Hitler did that wasn’t done by a tsar, a caudillo, or a US president, you can’t. It’s all branding, British and Americans during WWII were coke vs pepsi, meaningless shit.
>>2699199>liberalism is O.K. until things go bad, *then* they become fascists!!! (very bad thing!!!!!)how is this not literally what the other poster said
>>2699206People are addicted to debate, they wouldn’t last a day taking orders in a real struggle
>>2699204>>2699206no one is defending liberalism. peopla are saying that theres difference between liberalism and fascism
>>2699200Italian fascism and Nazism are both different forms of fascism
>>2699208There isn’t, fascism and liberalism are coke vs pepsi
>>2699209Neithr have a single unique policy, anything they did was already done by either a US president or a Latin American Caudillo
>>2699206I'm not saying liberalism is ok. I'm saying the difference between liberalism and fascism is one of degree not kind.
>>2699213Oh my fucking God shut up
>>2699210close but no cigar, is a bad cop/good cop dynamic
>>2699211were latin american caudillos backed up by finance capital as it exists in imperialism, the lastest stage of capitalism, as Hitler was?
>>2699210using analogies doesnt change things. did obama do any of the outrageous things trump is doing? did he declare tariffs on the entire world, threaten to invade multiple countries
including US allies? did he capture a democratically elected president in latin america to try to install a puppet there? was he as much of a zionist as trump is?
theres a fucking difference here
You people could have actual bullets flying over your heads and you would be arguing with your commading officers and calling them revisionist
Some disgusting gen z american woman won the gold medal in figure skating and now the news wont shut up about it
>>2699218trump could start ww3 and people here would still be saying hes the multipolarista choice. actual retards
>>2699199>All liberal democraciesno doubt a few. would be silly to assume all of them are capable of it
>>2699218you are on an online imageboard, not on an IRL protest or strike so what point are you trying to make here exactly?
>>2699213so fascism is not just when theres violence but when theres TOO MUCH(how do we even define this??) violence. ok how is this remotely more helpful
>>2699203saying trump being a liberal isnt a defense of him unless you are also a liberal and see it as an insult against yourself
>>2699204communism rejects either left or right ideology but that doesnt mean you can just say all ideologies are literally the same lol
>>2699220You couldn’t spin or have balance like that, she’s like one of two Americans to ever actually earn anything
>>2699224>that doesnt mean you can just say all ideologies are literally the same lolkind of like how you cant say liberalism and fascism are the same thing huh
so much talking here to say nothing at all
>>2699226Name one thing done by Hitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW that Simon Bolivar and Napoleon didn’t
>>2699208>peopla are saying that theres difference between liberalism and fascismthose people would be right
>>2699228Go back to smoking weed, you were a better person when you had cheap durban poison
>>2699230Fascism is literally just a rebranding
fascism isnt a general function of capitalism, it was a particular crisis response at a particular time/place
>>2699226thats literally the point im making lol. you arent discerning anything if you conflate everything you dont like based on vibes
>>2699234the democrackka sees the ICE operation as a tax on his groceries, furniture and cars as the democrackka does not see third worlders as humans, but as cheap labour: cheap grocery store workers, cheap carpenters, cheap drivers and mechanics.
The animal Newsom is mad that his slaves are being taken away from him.
>>2699233Obama was the deporter in chief who ramped up ICE, Biden continued tariffs
>>2699229Napoleon and Bolivar relied on progressive forces to fight against forces of reaction. Hitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW relied on reactionary forces to fight against forces of progress.
>>2699238Slaves don’t usually cross borders to go TO the plantation but go off you mental freak
>>2699236its not based on vibes i literally just gave you the list of things trump did that are different from what everyone who came before him did.
this is material reality. youre trying to fit shit into your autism box instead of looking at the real world
>B-B-BUT IT MUST PERFECRLY ALIGN WITH MY TEXTBOOK DEFINITION OF 1920S ITALIAN FASCISM OTHERWISE ITS NOT FASCISM Long live the butcher Trump !
To the complete and final death of democrackkas, URA
>>2699227Sofia airport will definitely be servicing US military airplanes. BNT (the national news agency) are doing a smokescreen cover up that its all just for "maintenance"
>>2699239nowhere near the same thing that trump is doing. once again pointing out bad things obama did doesnt mean that he is the same as trump
>>2699243There’s literally not a single unique thing about Trump
>>2699216>did obama do any of the outrageous things trump is doing? continued bush's wars
> did he declare tariffs on the entire world, threaten to invade multiple countries including US allies?didn't just threaten to invade, continued already existing invasions. no need to theraten allies, against whom affronts seem to have more "moral weight" for some people…. reflecting an imperialist caste system where you can brutalize africans, asians, middle easterners, eastern europeans, and latin americans but not europeans or north americans or 5 eyes
>did he capture a democratically elected president in latin america to try to install a puppet there? euromaidan coup in 2014 against yanukovych is close enough
syrian civil war is close enough
unilateral "iran deal" which limited iranian nuclear sovereignty, only for the US to also unilaterally tear it up anyways after iranians followed it, is close enough
at this point "less bad" is like choosing whether we crash into the wall at 90mph or 100mph
fascism is bipartisan
>>2699242willing slaves do
there is no lack of willing house uyghurs in the third world, specially latam macaques
>>2699246All of US history is an unbroken chain of crimes, it’s all the same
>>2699251Tv dinner fortune nepobaby
>>2699248youre pointing out bad things obama did. youre preaching to the choir here, no one fucking defends obama in leftypol of all places
all we are saying is that trump is 10x worse
>at this point "less bad" is like choosing whether we crash into the wall at 90mph or 100mphmaybe so, but you admit the difference then?
>>2699246obama is not the same as trump, he is worse
>>2699249Willing slave is an oxymoron, go back to smoking weed and fuck off you djinn
>>2699249omg i thought i'd never say this, but go back to attacking americans workers. at least that made sense from your relative standpoint. punching sideways at latin americans is bizarre even for you. also feel free to attacking the ruling class any time
>>2699251heckin epic gotcha. but yeah, public opinion doesn't matter
>>2699254It’s not a meaningful difference, sorry that bothers you
>>2699227Imagine being delayed from travel in your own country because of this shit i would be livid
>>2699254The faster the better, the more utilitaran, the more humane. Stop doing damage control retards.
>>2699216obama shoved a knife in gaddafi's ass
>>2699254>all we are saying is that trump is 10x worse10% worse not 10x worse. I think you overestimate the gulf between the parties. Trump's rhetoric and clownishness might be 10x worse but his actions have actual continuity in the existing system.
fascism has been telegraphed as the singular evil that USAnians must fight back against. that is why people fight tooth and nail to ignore and deny that the USA is now fascist and has been fascist for some time. the cognitive dissonance fucks em up. if they've been doing nothing all this time, it means they're complicit. and they are.
>>2699262its not better for anyone. its just going to get worse.
>>2699255are we seriously doing this shit now? how?
>>2699260if youre non american its very likely trump has threatened your country. is that not a substantial enough difference for you ?
>>2699256>>2699258i do not punch at latams in general, i punch their askaris, their uncle toms
most of these latino savages who move to amerikkka are rabid anti-communists who idolise american culture, i piss on them, i encourage ICE to round up more of them and gas them
>>2699263That was more Chirac and Hillary but Obama was the gettaway driver
>>2699266Obama did a genocide in Yemen
>>2699266>howobama diddled gaddafi's bedouin ass with a knife
>>2699225Her father was a Chinese gusano that left China after committing crimes in Tiananmen Square because too many African people were being let into his college. She’s a complete prop.
the liberal gets hysterical when looking at the present state of things and demand that things return to "normal", the communist just sees capitalism working as intended
>>2699243bourgeois democracies have done mass killings all the time, youre just a historically myopic american lol sorry
>>2699251highly critical support whenever he does things like this, that's all I'll say
>>2699224>so fascism is not just when theres violence but when theres TOO MUCH(how do we even define this??) violenceMy point is that the line between the two is so blurry and porous that they can't really be called distinct phenomena. If you're looking for a hard dividing line past which liberalism becomes fascism you won't find it.
>>2699270>>2699269see
>>2699246>nowhere near the same thing that trump is doing. once again pointing out bad things obama did doesnt mean that he is the same as trump >>2699267My coworker is Peruvian, he says Alberto Fujimori is the best president they ever had, I hope to talk him down from this position eventually
>>2699268>chiracyou mean sarkozy moron
you seriously think hillary and sarkozy can do something without the blessing of the US president?
Are you retarded?
>>2699238>>2699254>trump is 10x worse than ObamnahHOW
>>269925130% of americans will do whatever the fuck Trump wants because they are conformists.
>>2699272im not american. trump has threatened my country and will probably interfere in our elections, im just pointing out facts and the performatively radical crowd are getting mad at it
Hitler in a speech on January 30th 1937
>There is no economic concept or economic view which can claim to be gospel. What is decisive is the will to always assign business the role of servant of the people and capital the role of servant of business. National Socialism is, as we know, the sharpest opponent of the liberalistic point of view that business existed for capital and the people for business. We were therefore also determined from the very first day to break with the mistaken concept that business could lead an unbound, uncontrollable and unsupervised life within the state. A free economy, in other words one completely left to itself, can no longer exist today. Not only would this be politically intolerable, no, economically too, impossible conditions would result. Just as millions of individual people cannot structure or perform their work according to their own ideas or needs, so also business as a whole cannot act according to its own opinions or in the service of egoistic interests. Because today it too is no longer able to bear the consequences of a mistake all by itself. Modern economic development concentrates enormous masses of workers in certain types of jobs and in certain regions. New inventions or the loss of markets can destroy whole industries in one blow. The industrialist may be able to close the gates of his factory, he may even attempt to find a new field of activity for his drive to be active. In most cases he will not go under so readily, and, apart from that, here we are only dealing with a few individuals. But facing these 12 — Journal of Libertarian Studies 26, No. 1 (2022) there are hundreds of thousands of workers with their women and their children! Who will take them and who will care for them? The national community! Jawohl! It has to. But then it cannot be accepted that the national community is only burdened with the responsibility for the catastrophe of business, without having any influence on, and responsibility for the direction and the control of business by which the catastrophe could be avoided! My fellow members! When in 1932 to 1933 the German economy appeared to be finally heading for complete destruction, the following became even more clear to me than in earlier years: the salvation of our nation is not a problem of finance, but exclusively a problem of the use and employment of our existing working forces on the one hand and the utilization of existing land and natural resources on the other. It is therefore first and foremost a problem of organization. We are therefore also not dealing with phrases such as “freedom of the economy”; the issue is rather to give the workforce the possibility of a production and a productive activity by all available means. As long as business, in other words the sum total of our enterprises, is able to do this, all the better. But if it is no longer capable, then the national community, in other words in this case the state, is obliged to take care of the employment of the existing workforce for the purpose of a useful production, or to take the appropriate measures for this.
>>2699276the great majority of latinos who move to amerikkka whether legally or illegally are anti-communists who dream of licking the yanqui master's ass
>>2699277Do you think a gettaway driver isn’t complicit in murder?
>>2699265so basically, the average USAnian is a fascist
>>2699281youre supporting the slaughter of working class people because you know your comfortable middle class lifestyle will stay intact no matter what
>>2699282i ain't reading all that
>>2699274>My point is that the line between the two is so blurry and porous that they can't really be called distinct phenomena. If you're looking for a hard dividing line past which liberalism becomes fascism you won't find it.its crazy this point is filtering so many people, they think liberalism and fascism are just fixed checklist of atributes, pure idealism
>>2699288You're prolonging it
>>2699285obama was the mastermind, not a small getaway driver
>>2699267>most of these latino savages who move to amerikkka are rabid anti-communists who idolise american cultureI thought they did it to bleed american hegemony and send remittances home since our wages are higher relative to theirs and our currency has more purchasing power relative to theirs. I would do the same thing in their situation, not out of a love of Amerikkka, but out of a desire to get better compensated for my work, so I can take better care of my family.
>>2699292no, fascism will just destroy your marxist book club, trample over unions, destroy communist parties and give capitalism at least another 50 years. when has fascism ever strengthened working class organization?
>>2699275all these examples just show that obama was worse than trump
>>2699290>fuzzy categories are invalid categoriescouches and chairs don't exist because there is overlap between them
>>2699296youre being performatively radical, trying to denounce all flavours of capitalism as the same thing when theyre obviously not. yes its capitalism, its bad, but theres a difference
>>2699295All the unions and communist parties deserve to be destroyed because they suck and they’re insufficient, only a baptism by fire can fix anything
>>2699299Not a meaningful one
>>2699280oh absolutely dude bourgeois democracies have never threatened other countries either!!!!!!!!!!! im learning so much today
>>2699282I dont care about what fascist think they are or do, I care about the objective mechanisms that define it as a form of political management in the real world, the subjective convictions of the fascist are irrelevant
>>2699295Nah fascism is unstable, theres only way out and its through, you're a succdem, you're the real fascist, you're the Hitler, you're the counterrevolutionary, you're scum and I hope they stab you and hurt you very baed you're very very stupid and scummy bourgeoise you're bourgeoise you dont know history you dont know anything you're a reformist lesser evil voter moron, thats why you haven't overthrown the pedocracy you're doing apologetics for the pedocracy I'm falling for bait, I wanna kill you damnnnnnn stupid liberal I'm revolutonary, kill americans fucking kill them all! Pull the lever scumbag get raped you fucking scumbagyou wanna prolong suffering and stagnation fucking reactionary uyghureeerr you're a jewish nigger yeaaaa! Counterrevolutionary jewish nigger parasite reformist liberal thats what you are you're a treatlerite fuck you get into a civil war fucking jewish nigger.
>>2699294>I thought they did it to bleed american hegemony and send remittances home since our wages are higher relative to theirs and our currency has more purchasing power relative to theirs.they do send remittences but its magnitude is vastly exagerated by MAGA retards
in any case, it is nowhere near wnough to 'bleed america off the resources'
if anything the net 'bleeding' is from other countries
into america.
All these chinese, indian, african skilled workers who move to amerika. Who paid for their education from pre-primary to teritiary? Their native countries' governments - their native country's taxpayers. Who reaps the benefit? The American companies, the silicon valley faggots.
Whatever remittence they send back home is peanuts compared to the profits they are generating for yank bourgeois. And the yank had to pay nothing to educate them since childhood, their poorr home country did that already.
>>2699298If you did want to look for qualitative distinctions I guess you could argue that it becomes fascism when any kind of legal socialist organizing becomes impossible. Alternatively it could be regarded as the erasure of the distinction between colonized and metropolitan workers, i.e. the application of colonial methods of rule to the metropole.
>>2699298>>fuzzy categories are invalid categoriesI'm saying the complete opposite you illiterate retard
>>2699299youd have a much better argument that trump is surrounded by neonazi larpers, bc he absolutely is, but trump himself is a milquetoast conservatard and his policies havent been meaningfully different from how democracies have acted throughout the last 2 centuries lol. youd have to never have cracked open a history book to argue otherwise
MODS BAN THE SOCIALDEMOCRATIC Jewish nigger SON OF LASSALLE
>>2699299>>2699299>>2699299>>2699299>>2699299>>2699299>>2699299>>2699299>>2699299>>2699299>>2699299>>2699299HE WANTS TO KILL EVERYONE SLOWLY INSTEAD OF QUICK THATS Jewish nigger BEHAVIOUR HE'S PROFITTING OFF THE SUFFERING OF EVERYONE YOU GOTTA BAN HIM AND DOX HIM
>>2699300whats the difference between accelerationism and neoliberalism at this point? lets just strengthen the bourgeois until things get magically better bro!
>>2699302i keep having to repeat myself because you people only have 2 arguments
>yes obama was bad>trump is worse>>2699304this is why communists are irrelevant in 99% of countries.
>youre a leftist who disagrees with me? NAZI>the president of the world capitalist empire? hecking wholesome! accelerating communism! >>2699299you are a democrackka faggot, you are a dickrider
you are splitting hairs as always which always concludes with VOTE GAVIN2028
>>2699299>but theres a differencei agree. the difference is that obama was worse than trump.
>>2699312Fuck you HITLER you;re a socialdemocrat liberal
you defend pedophiles in government, fucking jewish nigger zionist russian saboteur
fuck you if your goyim cattle dont rise up, fucking kill eachother fucking western jewish niggers
>>2699303german fascism obscured the class struggle by placing the lowliest german worker above the highest foreign bourgeoise, this is what makes it more sinister than liberalism
>>2699311no jim jones i will not drink the flavor aid no matter how much you say it's better to go out that way
>>2699312Nothing will change until the last teamster and DSA member is either dead or in jaik
I will start punching next american I see IRL
>>2699305hmm that's a good point but I still don't fault the lat am workers in this situation. sounds like I should blame porky rather than lat am workers
>>2699267>>2699267This is why its relevant tthat you live in pic related ypu havent lived somewhere like el salvdador or columbia where violent crime is so terrible that people risk walking across 3 countries to reach reletive safety.
Maurtitious doesnt have violent crime on that level and you an engineering graduate i dont think you should judge an illiterate daylabourer that has recieved multiple death threata and tries to make it somewhere safer, and it is disgusting that ylu cheer for state violence against them
>>2699283I was looking at a dusty old bible from the early 1960s in my grandma's house (she's nonreligious but it was an inherited object with sentimental value) and it had like random pages with pictures throughout, and one of them still labeled "israel" as palestine. I was surprised to see that in a bible from the 1960s
>>2699323he's a known troll. mentally ill or roleplaying, i don't care
>>2699309wtf does not agreeing with vague abstractions have to do with fucking differentism retard.. can you make an actual point wrt this text at the very least?
>>2699312i didnt mention obama anywhere in my posts lol. is that really your entire conception of capitalism in history? the last single decade in a single country??
>>2699317LMFAO you actually believe the german proletariat got literally anything to win during fucking nazi germany? nazism as an ideology did place the volk above all but in practice it didnt make the immiserated wage worker stop being one
>>2699328the sheer size of the universe means that there is probably ayy lmaos, after all we are ayy lmaos to everyone else, I just doubt they visited here
>>2699236>it was a particular crisis response at a particular time/placeSo you think it was just Hitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW and Pinochet wasn't a fascist?
>>2699332…
…
…
…
…
…
…
Augusto Pinochet is
*the* poster boy for neoliberalism, are you for fucking real right now?
>>2699332There’s literally nothing Pinochet did that wasn’t done by other caudillos
>>2699330The german proletariat was fighting to steal slavic land so he could do primitive accumulation like American settlers and have slavic slaves to rape
>>2699330>you actually believe the german proletariat got literally anything to win during fucking nazi germanyyes. and German citizens from that time would agree, like they did in this book. not a single German interviewed regretted their support and most still worshipped the Reich even after the war
>The interviewees had the following occupations: baker, cabinetmaker, bank clerk, bill collector, law enforcement officer, salesperson, student, tailor, and teacher. Walter L. Dorn of the Saturday Review wrote that the interviewees were from a pro-Nazi bloc that was the "anti-labor, anti-capitalist, and anti-democratic lower middle class".
>The author determined that his interviewees had fond memories of the Nazi period and did not see Adolf Hitler as evil, and they perceived themselves as having a high degree of personal freedom during Nazi rule, except for the teacher. Additionally, barring said teacher, the subjects still disliked Jewish people. >>2699334Didnt h
Brining in the chicago boys before all the other dictator ships?
>>2699337The chicago boys are just normal imperial libs, all the same shit happened in the 19th century
>>2699333Yes, liberal imperialists propped a fascist in order try their new doctrine of austerity and to kill communists, again, tell me why Pinochet doesnt fit this definition
>>2699187 or why the definition is wrong
You know Nazis did privatization too, right?
>name one bad thing fascism has done that liberalism hasn't done
>most of the bad shit liberalism's done: happened to foreign nations or internally colonized nations
wow y'all pointed out that fascism is imperialism turned inwards, you're such smart boys
Fascism doesn’t exist, never has existed, never will exist, it’s a psyop to make you think liberals are your friends
>>2698898This is Accelerationist nonsense. Making conditions worse does not guarantee that the underclasses will radicalize. Radical ideas can be popular with 100% of society, but if people either fundamentally don't think it's an actionable political agenda, conditions worsening is just as, if not more likely to whip people into submission than it is to enflame. The whole of human history has shown that we can put up with a lot of oppression and subjugation until critical masses of people feel like they're truly cornered animals with nothing left to lose, and usually that bottommost line boils down to whether someone has steady access to food. A society can get unimaginably worse in decline while things will just barely be "good enough" as long as it still has food security.
If anyone gets deradicalized by successful reform movements, it's usually the leaders and organizers, who tend to make the mistake of thinking that the success of their reform campaigns mean their opponents are friendlier and not as murderous as they really are.
>>2698916>They still have more healthcare relative to anyone in the third worldThe healthcare systems of the US and China are actually remarkably similar. I still think it's good, but if we're under an unspoken agreement that universal free, and publicly run healthcare is a mark of Socialism, then the country with the most socialized healthcare in the world is…the UK's NHS, which probably speaks volumes more about the state of the world at-large.
>>2699347
You never killed that tourist like you said you would treatler
>>2699323the muh workerino who moves to the usa and the violent cartel apes are one and the same: yankee-loving anti communists
>>2699189Yes. he has very little in common with the fascist dictators often associated with him other than "authoritarian dictatorship", He did not have any common feature of the historical fascist states (Ultranationalism, Revanchism, Mysticism and a cult of ideology, a party-state, an element of mass governance, etc), none of these really existed because Pinochet's Chile wasn't a fascist dictatorship, but a simple bourgeois one.
>>2699346lol theyre panicking
>>2699334is not simply about what you do or your policies are, fascism distinguishes itself because of its relationship with finance capital as opposed to industrial capital which predominates in the pre-imperialist stage of capitalism
>>2699345ok so you finally admit fascism is a different type of political management from "regular" liberalism and a function of capitalism, it was nice talking to you
>>2699353You still didn’t kill that tourist djinn
>>2699349>the country with the most socialized healthcare in the world is…the UK's NHS, which probably speaks volumes more about the state of the world at-large.NTA you are responding to, but china's health care is private relative to the UK but prices are absolutely way lower than the US. and there is almost no waiting, unlike with the NHS. I would say china's health care system is superior to the UK and US just because there is better tech, better quality of care, shorter waiting times, more doctors per capita, and lower prices. Even tourists get seen the same day they walk in with a problem.
>>2699251Tucker just wants to “pivot to China” and plunder oil from Venezuela instead of the middle east. Mofo was in the room with Trump and oil executives as they plotted out a timeline for oil extraction.
>>2699354I wanted Marx and Lenin
instead of Mark R Levin
>>2699360>I would say china's health care system is superior to the UK and US just because there is better tech, better quality of care, shorter waiting times, more doctors per capita, and lower prices. Even tourists get seen the same day they walk in with a problem.after watching chinese hospital vids on instagram its hard to disagree
>>2699355wow maybe is because it happened a few decades later and in a different continent
>Ultranationalism, Revanchism, Mysticism and a cult of ideologyyou are fixing on cultural idiosyncrasies and not on the material base of social reproduction of this form of goverment, try historical materialism some time
>>2699345This "analysis" is utter dogshit and always has been, unless by "inwards" you mean "neighboring countries"
>wont go confront 4 guys on ïle du coin
>will cheer for state violence from the same country that stole his peoples land against fellow 3rd worlders from behind a computer
Chagos poster is pathetic
>>2699369I prefer Dmitrov and Rajani Dutt's analysis
>>2699365he is already, just one in favor of the third world
>>2699368These "cultural idiosyncracies" are something that emerged out of their historical condition, and pointing them out is an important part of recognizing them, unless of course you think a non-ultranationalistic fascism existed
>>2699370he's either mentally ill (understandable given his situation)
or he's not real, a creation of CIA LLM slop
what are you stupid motherfuckers on about today?
>>2699375Whether or not we're allowed to call Donald Trump fascist
>>2699369>unless by "inwards" you mean "neighboring countries"by turning inward it doesnt mean they leave other countries alone (even Augusto "not real fascism" Pinochet, who didnt start wars and all that, collaborated with the british to help them in their colonial war against Argentina)
>>2699373Hes kinda like the fake patriots here who while very attached to the abstract symbols of the country, hates almost every group in it in favor of a fake ideal.
Chagos probably sees everyone around him as dumb lumpen, and projects that hate onto us insisting we have a deep and hidden hatred for the 3rd world
>>2699378If that is true then that just means people are just retarded in general. That's my view anyways. Maybe it's just ignorance
>>2699373>and pointing them out is an important part of recognizing themyes but fascism is not when a fixed list of cultural idiosyncracies of an specific type of fascism are present
this whole idea that fascism is just Hitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW only exists to obfuscate how liberals have been fascist collaborators for decades, thats the entire point of it
enough with this shit already
>>2699378People will laugh at this without realizing that if you're in a punk band, or draw pro communist art and comics, or dream of making an indie game with socialist themes, you are no different than these people
>>2699353You are like that the fox news boomers that say that they would never illegally cross a border, or that parents who take kids on the route are bad parents you are failing to understand the impossible position these people are in
And you are relatively privileged
>>2699348"is not real fascism!11!" only exists so liberals can pretend they are not fascist collaborators and that capitalism doesnt inevitably lead to fascism
zelensky is a fascist btw, even if he is "woke", there is no contradiction because fascism has always been syncretic and irrationalistic
fucking retarded website I hate you all lol
>>2699384>this whole idea that fascism is just Hitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW only exists to obfuscate how liberals have been fascist collaborators for decadesObjectively correct (it was "pro-democracy" liberals that granted Hitler German citizenship for the 1932 elections, after all), although it is wrong to apply the title of "fascism" to every form of radical capitalism. Fascism is specifically the mental illness of the middle class being threatened with proletarianization. The nationalistic elements derive from the desire to face capitalist crises with "good" capitalists, diverting the class struggle away from ideas of abolishing the class contrast entirely. The favorite son of capital is liberalism, in times of crisis (which it is invariably moving towards), it'll tolerate fascism for as long as it has to.
>>2699393Bro is just a sad little chuddy from Chudos
>lets repeat the same mistakes the soviets committed in the 1930s
>>2699393I sympathise with people who have to deal with violent animals in their society.
I do not sympathise with people who think the solution is to become a good slave for the empire.
>>2699398>Fascism is specifically the mental illness please stop not defining fascism first and foremost as a form and/or tendency of goverment/political management, it triggers me a lot, thanks
>>2699406The soviets committed no mistake in the 30s.
The SPD committed mistakes in the 30s.
Shitlibs like you work hard to cast everything bad that ever happened as a mistake of the USSR.
Westoids were infantile and failed in their revolutions = USSR's mistake
Germans being barbaric savages as they always were = USSR's mistake
Browder being a sucker for capitalist cock = USSR's mistake
Helped an anti-colonial mistake = double mistake by USSR; they both should not have helped
and they did not help enough
Ad infinitum
Always the USSR's mistake, never the mistake of the westoid. Never.
>>2699384>yes but fascism is not when a fixed list of cultural idiosyncracies of an specific type of fascism are presentNo, but they do have features in common, which i point out there
>this whole idea that fascism is just Hitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW only exists to obfuscate how liberals have been fascist collaborators for decades, thats the entire point of itI'll ask you a loaded question as a response to this, Do you think that every excess of liberalism is fascism? You seem to think this, as indicated by your other posts, but i don't, Fascism is precisely historical, it's where the whole nonsense of "anti-fascism" comes in, where you oppose something that has been nothing but a rotting corpse with some worms (Neo-fascism) crawling out of it, The closest thing to fascism in this current day is right-wing populism, although it appears to be falling apart
Didnt they tell bowder tho..?
>>2699389Sure, yank animal, sure. I am privileged.
>>2699436Compared to someone living in Central america with a nightmare murder rate yeah
>>2699449And the solution for them is to flee their hell and become your slave. How convenient, yank…
>>2699415>The soviets committed no mistake in the 30sIf that were true the Germans wouldn't have made it all the way to Moscow.
>>2699456Wrong. That is on France for folding so easily.
>>2699432The dance the fascism away people are just doing what every leftist is doing: politics themed hobbies
>>2699407It’s slaving for the empire through
imperial domination vs wage slaving while living in the metropole. Most of those people just want to raise their families and live in peace regardless of where.
>>2699418>Do you think that every excess of liberalism is fascism? No. I don't think Trump 1 was fascism, for example. I think Trump 2 is, or at least 90%, since elections and other "democratic" mechanisms still exists. IMO fascism in the US has the problem that the political system of the US is kinda of very "decentralized" in a sense compared to other liberal democracies.
>where you oppose something that has been nothing but a rotting corpse with some worms (Neo-fascism) crawling out of it. The closest thing to fascism in this current day is right-wing populism, although it appears to be falling apartthis sounds like you have an idealized version of fascism and when you see actually existing fascism doesnt match it you think is not real fascism. I think the concept you are looking for is "ur-fascism"
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism >>2699459Wouldn't you say it was a mistake for the Soviets to rely so heavily on France not folding? It may have been an understandable mistake because nobody expected it to happen so fast, but it was a mistake nonetheless.
>>2699455Long term the solution is an improvement in their countries and an end to america meddling that makes it worse but the deportation does nothing but make private dentention groups like core civic richer,
>become your slave. How convenient, yank…Where the maruitians getting free slaves when chagossians got there?
this is what happens when you dont keep the rent low, we get filled with mouthbreathing libs
it is so immensely frustrating to even try and talk to these cattle because their brains simply cannot comprehend john locke liberalism as a specific ideology and not just "in this house we support" feel good vibes liberalism, so, no matter how many times you try to make it clear to them, they still think "liberalism" may as well be a synonym for "good thing", so saying "liberalism is bad" is actually saying "good thing is bad", which…. whaaat?? that makes no SENSE!!! how can it bad when it's good thing???!?!?!?!
their brains simply
cannot conceptualize of liberalism as an actual specific defined ideology
>>2699336yeah exactly i said german proletarians, not good citizens of bourgeois society lmfao
>>The interviewees had the following occupations: baker, cabinetmaker, bank clerk, bill collector, law enforcement officer, salesperson, student, tailor, and teacher. Walter L. Dorn of the Saturday Review wrote that the interviewees were from a pro-Nazi bloc that was the "anti-labor, anti-capitalist, and anti-democratic lower middle class"holy shit LOL did you even read what you fucking posted?
>>2699338if you believe neo
liberalism is also fascism instead of also a specific policy and reaction to economic trends of the time then youve lost the plot entirely
>>2699344youre so fucking braindead you dont even realize pinochet has more in common with figures like thatcher and reagan than adolf fucking hitler
>>2699349uygha cant even figure out that communists dont reject reform bc of ideology shit like "accelerationism". protip: it has something to do with class!
>>2699353>>2699365lol is this bait? yeah proletarians are forced to go where the jobs are, thats what separates them from the petit bourgeois who can just go to live where they please
>>2699384>exists to obfuscate how liberals have been fascist collaborators for decadesyou cant be a "fascist collaborator" for "decades" when fascist italy lasted less than 2 decades and they fought with democratic states the entirety of its duration
saying liberalism adapted and took whats useful from fascism rendering the latter obsolete is a lot different from retards saying both are the fucking same. like its simply a fact that fascism was a specific response that was at odds with the liberalism of the time
>>2699461You keep saying "they just want to provide for their family". No shit. Of course from their pov they just want to have a better life. Like we all do.
Im talking about their objective function. Not only Guatemaleans, but also the chinese and indian techies in silicon valley. Cartel or not, fruit picker or software engineer, their objective function is to strengthen the empire.
Amerika perfected Nazism. The nazis had to force people from the conquered lands to work in the labour camps. In Amerika's case, the wholesome 'a man provides' third worlder moves their willingly and happily serves the empire, complete with the "Dios bless America".
>>2699370You fuckers love askaris like ethiopian-anon. You love defeatists who become your willing slaves.
>>2699470>lol is this bait? yeah proletarians are forced to go where the jobs are, thats what separates them from the petit bourgeois who can just go to live where they pleaseJust comparing chagos anti immigrant rhetoric to trumpism
>>2699474You arent and have never been and seem to making zero effort to understand the pressure these people are under.
>>2699474 >>2699483Heres your cheer for the death of children at the hands of the us feds because they were too treatler, award
>>2699474>>2699483you COULD have some semblance of a point if you brought up that class mobility is far more fluid in developed nations so proletarians moving to i.e. the US have higher chances of ending up joining the petit bourgeoisie than if they remained in their poorer country, but instead you are skipping from step 1 to step 10 and calling all of them middle class lol
>>2699484Being pro-immigrant for USA means preventing the collapse of Amerikan economy.
I am not going to simp for the Empire, no. Immigrants are the saviour of American Imperialism, they delay the inevitable crises endlessly.
>>2699487>>2699486I piss on your eternal "but muh poor immigrants", "muh think of the poor children".
American imperialism must die, no matter what the cost.
Immigrants, knowingly or not idc, are essential to the American economy. Thus, they are my enemies.
>>2699491Engineering student unaware of his class privileges over illiterate day labourers award.
>>2699491welp, this is what third-worldist brainrot leads to, essentializing nationality so much even pisspoor immigrants become le "imperialist" the moment they set foot on american soil LOL
>>2699490Poor Lithuanian willingly moved to Nazi Germany to find work with his family.
Poor Lithuanian serves the Nazi economy.
Poor Lithuanian's little daughter dies.
On a human level, very sad indeed. But from a cold, rational perspective, poor Lithuanian worker is serving Nazi interests.
>Thus, they are my enemies.
Considering you still havent shot that tourist and have done nothing to even harass the ïle du coin protesters at least they are safe from you because you dont do dhit and will never do anything but bitch on leftypol
>>2699495>>2699493As yank imperialists, you faggot love the immigrants who keep your death machine economy running.
You would hate to see your treat supplies collapse.
I, on the other hand, am a communist.
I want to see your savage empire collapse, and all you collaborators bleed and die on the streets.
>>2699497And anti imperialist chagos cheers when the SS overseer beats him to death in prison, he deserved that says chagos
>>2699493you get banned here for daring to imply an engineer working on an oil rig doesnt share the same class interests as some minimum wage retail worker lol so in retrospect its kinda obvious that post quality has diminished this drastically
>>2699502>As yank imperialistsi live in latam :)
>>2699500Based.
Amerikkkan collaborators having to deal with 0.00001% of what others had to endure from their pedo army and they cant handle the heat hehehehehe
>>2699500what were they protesting?
>>2699504Ah so just another latam simp for amerikan cock, no surprise
Be a good slave, they will gib you nice treaterinos
>>2699462>this sounds like you have an idealized version of fascism and when you see actually existing fascism doesnt match it you think is not real fascism. I think the concept you are looking for is "ur-fascism"I don't, i don't think it exists in the modern day precisely because it has no relevance, and the closest thing to it is merely a Frankenstein's Monster, and if you believe i'm harping too much on the common traits, i am looking at how they actually manifested themselves, not some simple abstraction as you are encouraging me to do
>>2699500Mineapolis 2020 police station
>>2699506It was one of many of those school walkouts where students have been protesting ICE. The talking heads have been pretty quick to label the students terrorists who are being "deployed" by their teachers and now we're just cutting to the part of the story where the state acts upon their bullshit again
>>2699503Yes he did.
The victims are those forced by the SS to toil in the labour camps.
Those who willingly moved there for 'muh jobs', deserve to be acked by the SS. The war machine does not exist in isolation, it needs a strong economy to fuel it. Those who freely volunteer to fuel this death economy deserve to be treated like the Wehrmacht soldier: an enemy.
>>2699462>this sounds like you have an idealized version of fascismyoure the one doing "not real liberalism" my man. fascism is a specific historical ideology so yeah you can actually concretely analyze something and conclude whether or not it fits lol
>or at least 90% fascistlmao dude
>>2699500i wish USAnians would stop saying "x amendment right" and instead just said "right to protest". they shouldn't understand that right as something unique to their laws. instead as a basic human right.
ok but the USA is fascist
>>2699516Geez maybe I'm using American terminology because it's the American thread and we're talking about American things happening in America, dont be a pedant
>>2699516yeah americans should stop appealing to their own laws and instead appeal to something even more bullshit, international law and human rights!
>>2699519>>2699520it's so retarded that such a basic right is an "amendment". truly USAnians are retrograde and barbaric
>>2699520Are we allowed to say that the regime using secret police to arrest entire classrooms full of high schoolers for protesting is bad? Is that okay?
>>2699521Yeah i screenshotted that to because the news reports on the girl dying , i dont care what the senator said, its nice to see what you care abou tho
Working people do pay tariffs, but only when democrats refund hundreds of billions in tariff to euroamerikanbourgeoisie.
>>2699523take ur meds brudder
>>2699508>and the closest thing to it is merely a Frankenstein's Monsterits even more pathetic, its literally just aesthetics bc theyve been rendered redundant and irrelevant by liberalism after it subsumed many features of fascism in 1945
>>2699505If they are dissenting from their government how are they colaborators?
>>2699470>thatcher and reagan than adolf fucking hitlerhe has things in common with the 3 of them, thats why he is a fascist and not just a liberal like thatcher and reagan (the fascist collaborators)
the relationship the western liberal establishment had with Hitler at first is not that different to the one they had with Pinochet, their main purpose was to kill communists and contain the influence of the USSR around the world
>>2699528By being breathing yanks
>>2699526>its even more pathetic, its literally just aesthetics bc theyve been rendered redundant and irrelevant by liberalism after it subsumed many features of fascism in 1945Indeed, which is part of the point, it is "winning" but the trend is towards an authoritarian liberalism with the intent of squeezing workers dry to merely enrich its bourgeois at an accelerated rate, in its general disposition, but there it is nothing but a whimper.
>>2699529Pinichet = a 'left wing' american
Pinochet would be endorsed by the DSA. Fox News would present him as a scary 'Marxist'. Dickriders in the /usapol/ would glaze him and campaign for him, as a 'promising candidate for democratic socialism'.
>>2699524Yea but its like:
We need to reform Auschwitz, a 80 year old rabbi by the name of Moses Gold just died because he could not have his tuberculosis medication! This is unacceptable and inhumane! Call your local commissioner!
And the opposition was like:
No that rabbi had a history of criminal bolshevism! Glory to the SS, you're anti-german traitors! You don't know how hard it is for former freikorps.
>>2699529Yes, so do many others, You can find common similarities with Julius Caesar, but of course this doesn't mean Caesar is a fascist, In every sense of the word Pinochet was a regular, authoritarian dictator creating a prostitute capitalism for a world power, nothing unique by LATAM's standards, in that time or 70 years beforehand, He has nothing in common with the historical phenomenon of fascism.
Liberals here need to repent and stop being coward. Liberal bought into and propagate imperialisy bourgeoisie line on tariff in defiance of labor theory value and now monopolists get hundreds of billions for free. Everyone who said tariff bad supports imperialism and bailout for walmart, all for but promise of cheaper treat that
>>2699534Lol no pinochet just did whst friedman told him to do. Have mild inflation, kill communist and do nothing else.
>>2699538So an amerikkkan 'leftist' then?
>>2699515>fascism is a specific historical ideologyWrong, its a form of goverment, italian fascism never had an unique "coherent" ideology in fact, unlike the Nazis.
>The letter led to a phone call between one of the letter’s organizers and the top foreign policy aide to Schumer, who laid out the thinking of many Democrats in the Senate. The organizer who took the call agreed to share details of the conversation in exchange for anonymity. A congressional source briefed on the call shortly afterward confirmed the details. The foreign policy aide, whom Drop Site agreed not to name, explained that a substantial number of Senate Democrats believed Iran ultimately needed to be dealt with militarily. But those Democrats, the aide explained, also understood that going to war again in the Middle East would be a political catastrophe. That’s precisely why they wanted Trump to be the one to do it. The hope was that Iran would take a blow and so would Trump—a win-win for Democrats.
meanwhile american leftists spend their time talking about some obnoxious micro-e-celeb
>>2699551Shumer needs to be put on trial
>>2699536>You can find common similarities with Julius Caesarfascism only exists in the context of the highest stage of capitalism known as imperialism as defined by Lenin, the presence of finance capital its essential for fascism
>He has nothing in common with the historical phenomenon of fascism.and by "historical phenomenom" you mean the ideal checklist of fixed atributes in your head
Please explain to me why the definition in pic related here
>>2699187 doesnt apply both to Pinochet and Hitler or why do you think the that definition is not correct.
>>2699526>its literally just aestheticsYes, that has always been a part of fascism as Walter Benjamin pointed out before being killed by the Nazis lol
>>2699555>The yanknazi must be judged by other yanknazisNo. Your whole race must nuked out of existence.
>>2699553well but radical socialists during the russian revolution did a lil bit more than that you will agree. namely they did a violent revolution
We’re going to invade Iran and Cuba, what does trying to define fascism do to interrupt, undermine, or stop aggressions against those two countries?
>>2699563Not possible nor desirable
>>2699460true and you're just participating as the art critic until you shoot a porky. and i'm the worst of all for even responding
>>2699261being a colony has no perks. it's a shame Bulgarians have no shame, and form a revolt cause all the shame.
>>2699551>The foreign policy aide, whom Drop Site agreed not to name, explained that a substantial number of Senate Democrats believed Iran ultimately needed to be dealt with militarily. But those Democrats, the aide explained, also understood that going to war again in the Middle East would be a political catastrophe. That’s precisely why they wanted Trump to be the one to do it.Called it. Watch trump start a war the Dems won't be able to finish when the american piper tiger is exposed and thousands of bodybags start coming home
>>2699108You are wrong. Adult upload photo, not child. Every adult euroamerikan legal name and face ought be in database. People of epstein nation reject even most basic protection of children. That is no conspiracy. Typical that Parenti the imperialist euroamerikan anti-Communist calls sinceproven settler epsteinian proclivity "conspiracy"
>>2699585Did he not watch the Cruz interview? It's obvious these things are traps. what a retard
>>2699586ok upload your face here to protect the children
>>2699585>I sat down with a guy who interviewed nazis and expected him to treat me like a naziWow that's a hell of a start
>I am shook that a guy who's buddy buddy with nazis had unkind things to say about Jews>revealing another example of not knowing basic demographic info (like not knowing about Qatari Christians in the interview)>The guy who pals around with nazis may have *gasp* taken a conspiracy theory from the KKK!Bro just say nothing and you won't make yourself look like an even bigger idiot.
>>2699592when you eat the yeti's asshole
>>2699586>>2698986lmao there is zero evidence that the ID laws protect children. You are just simping for a global surveillance state that will make any revolution anywhere by the proletariat significantly harder.
>>2699595Surveillance is a myth they use to paralyze you, who cares if they know anything when you have a gun to their head?
>>2699599>pornhub>epstein???
>>2699474>>2699474I think you need to wrestle with this question harder. The objective function of imperialized peoples, regardless of if they move to the metropole, is supporting the empire. Even outside the metropole, the impulse to do nothing for the preservation of self and others is really high. It’s why you don’t see masses in Chagos tearing apart the U.S. airforce base in their country, for example. There’s probably a way to fix this but you haven’t really stated how yet.
>>2699600Porn is inherently pedophilic
>>2699599They are requiring photo ID for all kinds of sites. They just pick porn ones first because retards like you will run interference for them. And yes they literally drone strike people based on face data.
>>2699603Sincerely, why do you even come here to incepost?
>>2699609>incepostgesundheit
>>2699598Because its worse when they know who to shoot and wjeee they are
>>2699585>that's because it comes from some of the darkest realms of the internet and social medialeftypol mentioned.
>>2699615Esp back in the 8chan days
(I feel so awkward admitting i used to browse it but it was mostly leftypol and some dead boards i saw no wierd shit
>>2699601>the masses in chagosHow many times do I have to say that only American military personel is allowed to be on the islands
>>2699617>allowed.So, tourist status?
>>2699601>a way to fix thisYou yank faggots who claim to be on the left have to dismantle your imperialism. Else you are just tacit collaborators, if not enthusiastic ones like Chairman Reif affirms.
>>2699604Name one euroamerikan who was drone striked. The entirety of the euroamerikan settler conglomerate is the epstein class
>>2699620Chairman of what ?
Buying israeli guns?
>>2699617They mean the ethnically cleansed refugees, the ones you claim to represent despite never killing an American like you said you would, because you’re a pussy
>>2699604Good. It's high time your master's droning hobby is targeted on your obese ass.
It's not like amerikkkan 'leftists' or their vassals are fighting for socialism anyway, so I see no loss.
More ICE, more droning in
muh belly of the beast please
>>2699620You still haven’t killed that tourist
>>2699623Chairman of recognising Strasserites of /usapol/ and calling them out
>>2699625You still haven’t killed that tourist, you won’t because you’re a fundamentally weak and resentful person and all your posting about yanks is jealousy instead of righteous indignation like you pretend
>>2699627Tourist 1, you 0
>>2699630I never said I’d kill an American, you did, and you haven’t because you’re every bit as weak as the Americans you claim to hate
>>2699631All of your posts confirm this yes
>>2699630Looks like I hit the Djinn’s nerve, soon you will disappear into smoke
>>2699632Your ugly fat ass sustains the worst imperialism in history and you do
nothing.
I am supposed to relax and enjoy life,
you have the burden of doing suicide bombing to weaken your imperialist death factory.
You will not succeed in deflecting the responsibilty of dying on others.
You will not succeed in deflecting the crimes of your imperialist entity on other supposed 'imperialist countries'.
You are uniquely evil. You have the responsibilty of acting, not me.
You will die. I will inherit the Earth and live happily.
>>2699635The djinn is desperate, I rebuke you in the name of God
>>2699600epstein people choose to not block children from vising pornhub. Epstein leftists and epstein lou rossman join hand in hand in saying preventing children from porn will hurt revolution
>>2699635So whos supposed to bayonet sodomise us?
Us?
Not immigrants
Not the jdpon invasion army becaue its not their fight
Not the real proletariat of the West because not real?
Who?
>>2699642Nobody will, it’s never going to happen
>>2699635>i want to take the earth from you but i won't lift a finger to do anything about it.well…die mad, i guess
I’m voting democrat just to spite all of you
>>2699641>give biometric info to the elite who are hiding the cleints of epstine or else you like epstine(The real answer is just use your imagination)
>>2699643and the gold 'fell for it award' goes to
*SUSPENSE DRUMROLL*
glenn greenwald.
fucking imbecile.
>>2699647the thought of making everyone here angry makes voting for kamala in 2028 actually seem appealing
>>2699651You will suck the cock of the DNC no matter what. Dont try to justify it.
>>2699650Not happening, keep seething while I steal all your land and resources, I’m gonna take your house and all you’ll do is post here
>>2699653I do what’s in my interest while you beg for me to do the opposite
>>2699653i've never voted for dems for president because i've been meme'd into believing this website's opinion on it matters at all. that ends 3 years from now.
Daily reminder that Epstein himself preyed upon minors jn roblox and fortnight, and thats why entirety of euroamerikan epstein people are against id verification
>>2699653Weak little cuck djinn is about to go back in his bottle where he belongs
>>2699658>>2699654>>2699655Yes I know that imperialism is in your interests. All yanks are guilty of existing.
>>2699659And you do nothing about it, do something pussy
>>2699585Huckabee needs to read the bible. Christians are the new Jews because the old Jews lost the covenant, making them fake Jews.
God’s Sovereign Choice
<6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. >7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[b] <8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.Circumcision of the Heart
>25 For circumcision benefits you if you observe the law, but if you are a lawbreaker, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if an uncircumcised man keeps the law’s requirements, will his uncircumcision not be counted as circumcision? 27 A man who is physically uncircumcised, but who fulfills the law, will judge you who are a lawbreaker in spite of having the letter of the law and circumcision. <28 For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, and true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh. <29 On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter.[a] That man’s praise[b] is not from men but from God. >>2699659You won’t be cause you’re a
WEAK, FAGGOT, REFUGEE >>2699662>>2699660Ugly yank parasites
>>2699665Your mother begs for GI cock so she can give birth to a US citizen
I hit the Djinn’s nerves and soon he will vanish
>>2699668Whos got more delusionals oc ganduer
Chagos
Felix
Or gunter
>>2699661listen buddy, these people don't believe in any of this shit.
that tucker wasted time with huckabee is all part of a charade for conservacucks.
deepak chopra told to epstein: 'god is a human construct.
little girl's pussies? that's real'
>>2699650Cant its illegal
>>2699668I thought Gunter had turned against the burgerreich due to their sleights against EVROPA and Trump's contempt for NATO?
>>2699675Turns out the euro american split was fake and kayfabe
>>2699676It's gonna take more than the flip flopping of one doofus to convince me of that.
>>2699675>>2699675What if america is europes id and they are just envious becaue they want to do all the evil shit
>>2699680That was true of the confederacy
>>2699676>>2699678Long term they have too see it, unless rubio won them over (if so they are retarded)
There’s a couple of American things that deserve to survive into socialism, mostly all the black music and food, they managed to make pig intestines delicious
>>2699689i'm never eating chitlins, dont care how proletarian they are
>>2699693Collared greens with ham hocks will change your life
>>2699689Does portland dreampop make it?
>>2699625The technology they build using Amerikkkans' data has been and is being used to kill third worlders you fucking retard.
>>2699699Chagos is a djinn, he doesn’t care, he doesn’t have a physical form and doesn’t have to worry
>>2699709It's worth reminding other people ITT how this shit works because a lot of people actually don't put 2 and 2 together
>>2699709That’s less fun than calling his mother and his motherland a whore
>>2699694I grow collared greens (nta)
>>2699716Sick dude, are they easier or harder then most garden vegetables? I plan on doing carrots and onions
>>2699716I grow collared greens (I have environmentalists chained up in my basement)
>>2699723Do you cook those with beef bones, turkey necks, or ham hocks?
If you're American, you really should be more grateful to live in a such wealthy, beautiful and interesting country.
Like this whole self-flagellation and being depressed about imperialism shit is not gonna help anyone at all, least of all yourself.
Marx was living in the belly of the worst empire of his time (UK) and he spent his free time bar hopping and watching Shakespearean plays. And he also had like 7 kids.
Be joyous and enjoy life. It does not detract from the revolutionary struggle at all. The revolution requires intelligence and effort - that doesn't come from suffering. You are either smart and hard working or you're not. You don't get any superpowers from dooming and you don't get any morality points from self-flagellation.
>>2699719Chitlins are just pork intestine instead of beef
>>2699730Im thinking of engels maxxing
>securing the bag>funding my comrades >>2699691>>2699733On a site owned by trotskyists lmao
>>2699715You are fascist imperialist. You biolate rules
>>2699746I’m only following my rational class interests, it’s Chagos and Iron Felix who demand I throw my life away for morality, they’re both djinn created by the FBI, id you shut them our if your mind they lose their power, as with all internet people
>>2699731>Chitlins are just pork intestine instead of beefTripas are the same thing, they can be beef or pork or any other animal.
>Tripas, in Mexican cuisine (known as chitterlings(chitlins) in English-speaking countries), is the stomach lining of farm animals that have been cleaned, boiled and grilled.[1] Tripas are used as filling for tacos, and then dressed with condiments such as cilantro, chopped onions, and chile sauce. They are also served with pico de gallo and guacamole. >Chagos and Iron Felix who demand I throw my life away for morality
But neither of them do any of it themelves
>>2699699Wrong. euro amerikans make and use the technologies themselves to extract profits from killing third world peoples. Even now, the epstein people victimize themselves
>>2699750I should make those at least once before getting shipped to Iran
>>2699760Dodge the draft in Mexico im going and im helping all my ameriyanks
>>2699763may the light of Allah cleanse their sinful Epsteinian souls (in the form of Iranian ICBM's)
>>2699749All i ask is be nice to Chagos. He is literal survivor of genocide which you epstein people perpetrate.
>>2699699Then fight them you fucking lazy degenerate
the more I think about it there is literally no reason not to burn down AI datacenters. they are strongholds of capitalist control.
>>2699769Hes 3rd gen tho and not to minimize but he calls the plight of central americans nothing when they are fleeing exterme violence in the usa when they flee violence
>>2699769I honestly wish the best for Chudos anon.
It would be nice if he stopped telling everyone to die tho
You know continuing to talk about him when he's not even here is just making the thread quality worse.
>Amerikkkans still not just grabbing an AR from Walmart and waging war against overweight ICE agents
PUSSIES.
>>2699745wtf i love trots now!!?
>>2699765I can’t speak Spanish but i’ll do what i must
>>2699781My walmart doesn’t sell guns, just ammo
>>2699769did polish people born 30 years ago survive a genocide?
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-warrant-officer-bonus-auction/So the army is basically gonna push out all their skilled warrant officers to save money.
Honestly if any administration will bounce checks to the common enlisted men (from what I recall they’re basically taking portions out of their checks automatically to be used exclusively for buying food within the military too) it’s this one. Probably not even cause “we can’t pay”, I wholly expect Hegseth to blow our defense spending on a rare liquor cabinet.
>>2699786Always an excuse
>>2699788Does the CPUSA central committee know that you are a catholic?
>>2699788>'our' defense spendingInteresting
>>2699789I know who you are, you have no power here
>>2699794You got something to add?
>>2699793Pretty sure that came up casually once.
>>2699794Oh for fucks sake, yes “our” defense spending, as in what our tax dollars are often sent towards.
>go to a protest
>throw a napalm molotov at ICE agents
>retreat into the crowd
>they instinctively fire their guns into a dozen liberal white people because they have no discipline
>everyone starts posting tiktoks of ICE agents firing into a crowd and killing dozens
please ironfelix do the needful your nation cries out for liberation
>>2699799How do you reconcile your faith in God with materialism? Don't CPUSA members know that Lenin did not want religious people to be admitted to the party? You went to a private school, you are a catholic. How come you are a communist?
>>2699799>'our' tax dollarsVeeery interesting
>>2699801>>they instinctively fire their guns into a dozen liberal white people because they have no disciplineBased
Critical support to ICE in their jihad against liberal imperialists
>>2699788Should you not be happy that the fascist army is being wrecked due to magatard incompetence?
>>2696809The parliamentarian stuff was decided in may. Between 15th march and may was the era where students promoted the idea of zbors. The peak of zbor activity was that one week in july where zbors blocked important street intersections in their area.
There wasn't really a lot of social demands even before, the big "social demand" people were talking about was the demand for increased public university funding, which is still an official demand, though the student demands were replaced but really by the demand for snap parliamentary elections.
Before the original demands were "concretized" there was the idea behind the funding demand instead being a free university demand, but students (due to lib brain probably) thought it was too much to ask and instead we got the funding demand.
In Serbia we already have a system where a number of slots in public faculties has free scholarship (they still have to buy books and stuff like that) so you don't have to pay it if you place well enough in the entrance exams and you maintain your budget status in following years by having better grades than the ones who don't have budget status. Students outside of the city who do well on the entrance exams can get a stipend (basically a small salary for being a student) and you might be able to get a room in the student dorm, but they don't have enough capacity. Free university education would mean not having to pay the scholarship and fees like the exam fee, basically everyone having budget status but better because you still pay some fees with budget status and you can lose it if you do too bad. I'm guessing it wouldn't do anything about the fact that the stipends and student dorm rooms are limited. The funding increase wouldn't do anything specific, since the ministry of education decides how it is spent. It could lead to more budget slots, more funding for academic research, something dumb or be stolen in some corruption scheme.
The parliamentary stuff might lead to some social democracy-type reforms. At least they would increase funding for public universities according to the original student demand, unless they decide to officially drop that demand. They might decide to do other such reforms too.
They might also improve the labor laws, since that was part of the initial draft of the student list's program that some faculty shared way back when the parliamentary stuff was just decided. The student movement has actually tried to link up with unions in the past but that didn't really work out, the only thing that resulted in was a single protest for labor rights on 1st may and nothing happened because of it. They also helped make some sort of union of labor unions, but that's also nothing because the small amount of unions that are a part of that are small and newly founded (the student movement predates them) and for only a few professions like teachers and IT. The IT one isn't even an labor union but a protest organization.
If you're fine with social democracy-type policies, then the student list is almost surely going to have better policies than SNS. The issue is that the student list members might out-lib the student movement and refuse to listen to them, or say something like "oh were here just to get rid of SNS, that's the priority, we're not doing anything else" and not do those policies. There's also a small danger of the student movement getting scammed to place that same limitation on the student list. Another danger is the current opposition parties somehow coming out on top and dictating the policies. Some of them might even have worse economic policies than SNS, and SNS's economic policies are about putting as much government money in their pockets as they can and doing what the EU and IMF tells them they must do.
>>2699808YOU HAVR NO POWER HERE, THIS
IS ALLAH’S HOUSE
>>2699810As expected, the anti-communist is a religious retard
>>2699813Religion as a private affair and cultural touchstone is perfectly compatible with communism, also that’s Chagos, who is a digital djinn created by the
FBI
>>2699817Religion as a private affair is okay for non-party members. Party members cannot be religious in any sense. Else you get left-imperialists like CPUSAnon.
>>2699801Pretty sure some cops plant Molotovs at protests just to justify cracking skulls, plus they can point to the Molotov first to make dubious self defense claims.
Honestly it’d be more feasible if someone fired some blanks in the air and the ICE guys overreacted.
>>2699803To be frank I see plenty of nonsensical idealism coated in Marxist paint from some “communists” on here. Brutal truth is that rather than being materialists I see them more or less as using Marxism like some alternative religion. Take a look at the chucklefuck above trying to cast aspersions on the fact I referred to defense spending as using “our tax dollars”, functionally they’re about the same as the retarded evangelical burning their kid’s Pokémon cards because they use the term “evolution” in them. Just worthless pedantry.
Truth be told I see religious faith as personally allowing for a more rational understanding of materialism because I’m not relying on Marxism to be my “moral compass” or whatever in everything I say. I’m not desperate to furnish my every waking moment with communist signifiers.
As for why I became a communist; well the Church instilled a deep sense of moral duty to the poorest among us and a critique of selfish profiteering that’s become fairly common in capitalism. That’s how I was educated, and growing up with my parents pinching pennies and fretting over whether we’d be able to keep our home or how we’d pay bills was another radicalizing moment. I kept some desire for aiding the poor and working people in all my politics, argued with a few Marxists, they explained their theories, and since I couldn’t find any decent counter argument it seemed rational.
>>2699818Marx quotes the bible a million times in Capital, these metaphors are useful, shut up
>>2699819>Pretty sure some cops plant Molotovs at protests just to justify cracking skulls, plus they can point to the Molotov first to make dubious self defense claims.self-defense claims don't matter if they fire into a crowd and the crowd turns on them. Optics is everything tbh.
>Honestly it’d be more feasible if someone fired some blanks in the air and the ICE guys overreacted.yeah or just fire live rounds, who cares. the point is just to instigate them to massacre civilians because American cops are trained to panic and escalate every situation with disproportionate force.
Instead of molotovs at protests, use non lethal, riot control weapons against the police, use guns with with rubber bullets, use loudspeakers that play the brown note against police lines, use car doors as riot shields and run them over and stomp on them
>>2699823> riot control weapons against the police, use guns with with rubber bullets,They will shoot you for that.
>use car doors as riot shields and run them over and stomp on themShoot you for that too.
> use loudspeakers that play the brown note against police linesMaybe they won't shoot you with lethal rounds for that. But you'll probably get physically fucked up.
>>2699826you're supposed to get shot at protests
Wear body armor at protests, show up more heavily armed than the police, intimidate the police, give police the fear of God, show up to their houses in the middle of the night
>>2699828that's what I said
>>2699820Yknow I’m pretty sure I remember Lenin referencing Franklin or Jefferson at one point, too.
That said my opinion of many “materialists” I’ve seen here and elsewhere is that for folks who ostensibly don’t believe in God or the afterlife, they sure act as though there’s some expectation of a heavenly reward if they observe the right language and ritual.
>>2699832It’s not a protest if they approve of it beforehand
>>2699834It was pretty funny handing out zines ar a No Kings protest and seeing some kids roll through with tactical gear and patches.
>>2699836Make fun of them all you want, they’re prepared for the fight
>>2699788Bonus Army 2.0 incoming?
>>2699876low low hopes for a dyin'
>>2699859all circus no bread
>>2699819>defense spending dickriding yanqui monkey calls the genocide fund "defense spending." Please refrain from making this mistake.
>>2699543lol reducing ideologies like fascism and nazism down to just state policy just so you can ignore everything else about them to support your point about (thing i dont like) being the same as (another thing i dont like)
>"coherent" ideology even you tacitly admit how dumb it is to focus on whether it is coherent or not by using scare quotes lol. theyre ideologies after all, not science!
new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883new thread, chuds
>>2699883>>2699745>>2699783eh, at least they accept that 'Lenin testament' is most likely a forgery.
>>2699745Speaking as an MIA volunteer, you really can't accuse the organization of being owned / run / dominated by Trotskyists at this point in time. They sort of were back in the site's glory days of 1998-2003ish, when a lot of the front-facing editorial content was drawn up; there was never a partisan commitment to Trotskyism, but a majority of volunteers were Trotskyists (or more often ex-Trotskyists; refugees from collapsed Trot parties like Gerry Healy's WRP played an outsize role), and the collective did not object to editorial content denigrating "Stalin and Mao" specifically.
Nowadays tho, I can say that there are several seemingly Marxist-Leninist volunteers active, and everyone, even the professed Trotskyists, tend to treat Soviet-model states with a less judgmental stance in new editorial content. I can't say anything more specific than that because there isn't much in the way of a collective editorial policy at all these days: everyone tends to their own little private plot of webpages, while the Steering Committee email list stays silent for weeks at a time.
>>2699880and the circus sucks ass
>>2699819>Catholikkk calling others 'nonsocal idealists' You are dim
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