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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1772752573412.mp4 (16.04 MB, 576x1024, _corn.mp4)

 

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Youtube Playlists
Anwar Shaikh - Historical Foundations of Political Economy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTMFx0t8kDzc72vtNWeTP05x6WYiDgEx7
Anwar Shaikh - Capitalism: Competition, Conflict and Crises
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB1uqxcCESK6B1juh_wnKoxftZCcqA1go
Anwar Shaikh - Capitalism
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLz4k72ocf2TZMxrEVCgpp1b5K3hzFWuZh
Capital Volume 1 high quality audiobook from Andrew S. Rightenburg (Human-Read, not AI voice or TTS voice)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUjbFtkcDBlSHVigHHx_wjaeWmDN2W-h8
Capital Volume 2 high quality audiobook from Andrew S. Rightenburg (Human-Read, not AI voice or TTS voice)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUjbFtkcDBlSxnp8uR2kshvhG-5kzrjdQ
Capital Volume 3 high quality audiobook from Andrew S. Rightenburg (Human-Read, not AI voice or TTS voice)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUjbFtkcDBlRoV5CVoc5yyYL4nMO9ZJzO
Theories of Surplus Value high quality audiobook from Andrew S. Rightenburg (Human-Read, not AI voice or TTS voice)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUjbFtkcDBlQa-dFgNFtQvvMOgNtV7nXp
Paul Cockshott - Labor Theory of Value Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKVcO3co5aCBnDt7k5eU8msX4DhTNUila
Paul Cockshott - Economic Planning Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKVcO3co5aCDnkyY9YkQxpx6FxPJ23joH
Paul Cockshott - Materialism, Marxism, and Thermodynamics Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKVcO3co5aCBv0m0fAjoOy1U4mOs_Y8QM
Victor Magariño - Austrian Economics: A Critical Analysis
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpHi51IjLqerA1aKeGe3DcRc7zCCFkAoq
Victor Magariño - Rethinking Classical Economics
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpHi51IjLqepj9uE1hhCrA66tMvNlnItt
Victor Magariño - Mathematics for Classical Political Economy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpHi51IjLqepWUHXIgVhC_Txk2WJgaSst
Geopolitical Economy Hour with Radhika Desai and Michael Hudson (someone says "he's CIA doing reheated Proudhonism" lol)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7ejfZdPboo&list=PLDAi0NdlN8hMl9DkPLikDDGccibhYHnDP

Potential Sources of Information
Leftypol Wiki Political Economy Category (needs expanding)
https://leftypedia.miraheze.org/wiki/Category:Political_economy
Sci-Hub
https://sci-hub.se/about
Marxists Internet Archive
https://www.marxists.org/
Library Genesis
https://libgen.is/
University of the Left
http://ouleft.sp-mesolite.tilted.net/Online
bannedthought.net
https://bannedthought.net/
Books scanned by Ismail from eregime.org that were uploaded to archive.org
https://archive.org/details/@ismail_badiou
The Great Soviet Encyclopedia: Articles from the GSE tend to be towards the bottom.
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/
EcuRed: Cuba's online encyclopedia
https://www.ecured.cu/
Books on libcom.org
https://libcom.org/book
Dictionary of Revolutionary Marxism
https://massline.org/Dictionary/index.htm
/EDU/ ebook share thread
https://leftypol.org/edu/res/22659.html
Pre-Marxist Economics (Marx studied these thinkers before writing Capital and Theories of Surplus Value)
https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/index.htm
Principle writings of Karl Marx on political economy, 1844-1883
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/economy/index.htm
Speeches and Articles of Marx and Engels on Free Trade and Protectionism, 1847-1888
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/free-trade/index.htm
(The Critique Of) Political Economy After Marx's Death
https://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/postmarx.htm
91 posts and 43 image replies omitted.

you know only 1-2 people at most read your posts. you would get more engagement with a no-follower twitter. im certainly not one of them, see greek statue and rambling and i just scroll past and insult you because i dont entertain crypto fascist propaganda.

>>2757350
>you brush such criticism off and repeat your incorrect points for over a year.
Give me a single incorrect point I have made.
Please - actually be relevant to discussion.
>debunked anti-communist propaganda
such as?
>literally, whom'st are you, again?
I'm someone you're obsessed with apparently, even referring to me by a pseudonym. Its creepy and reeks of mental illness.
>>2757357
>you know only 1-2 people at most read your posts.
anyone interested in political economy will find my posts valuable, since that is the topic of the thread; therefore, any person who engages in this thread finds my posts valuable, which must include yourself - unless you were in a thread for irrelevant purposes, which causes me to ask; why are you here, exactly?
>im certainly not one of them
You are replying to me right now; youre hopelessly invested in my effort if you have been wasting your life responding for over a year. Do you have any hobbies?
>i dont entertain crypto fascist propaganda.
Neither do I, which is why I can hardly tolerate communists.

smithanon is epstein

>>2757374
idk man maybe you should stop advocating murdering leftists because they vote in ways you dont like

>>2757377
What…? 🥱

>>2757384
oh right its not murder if you dont consider them people. my bad

having trouble with volume 2 of capital. it's much more of a slog than volume 1.

is supply/demand simply a free-market-ideology reframing of production/consumption?

File: 1774706441894.jpg (1.22 MB, 1920x1280, smith_marx_small.jpg)

>>2758006
?
>>2758130
If someone produces 100 of commodity (x) yet can only sell 50 of (x), is the value of the commodities determined in what is produced or in what is sold? As Marx writes in the introduction to the Grundrisse and at the conclusion of Capital Vol. 1, Chapter 1, Section 1; production is determined by consumption, which is to say, supply is a property of demand, yet demand also depends on what is supplied. We may read thusly:
<Not only is production immediately consumption and consumption immediately production, not only is production a means for consumption and consumption the aim of production, i.e. each supplies the other with its object (production supplying the external object of consumption, consumption the conceived object of production); but also, each of them, apart from being immediately the other, and apart from mediating the other, in addition to this creates the other in completing itself, and creates itself as the other. […] This last identity […] [is] frequently cited in economics in the relation of demand and supply
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/grundrisse/ch01.htm
<Lastly nothing can have value, without being an object of utility. If the thing is useless, so is the labour contained in it; the labour does not count as labour, and therefore creates no value.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htm
So then, production has no "real" existence to Marx outside of what is constituted by consumption:
<Consumption produces production in a double way, because a product becomes a real product only by being consumed. For example, a garment becomes a real garment only in the act of being worn; a house where no one lives is in fact not a real house; thus the product, unlike a mere natural object, proves itself to be, becomes, a product only through consumption.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/grundrisse/ch01.htm
So then, as we see, production cannot even count as production where it is not consumed; can the same be said of supply? To those with common sense, a house is a "real" house even if it is abandoned, it just remains ineffectual of demand - so now we enroach upon the Smithian concept of effectual supply and demand:
<Such people may be called the effectual demanders, and their demand the effectual demand; since it maybe sufficient to effectuate the bringing of the commodity to market. It is different from the absolute demand. A very poor man may be said, in some sense, to have a demand for a coach and six; he might like to have it; but his demand is not an effectual demand, as the commodity can never be brought to market in order to satisfy it. […] When the quantity brought to market is just sufficient to supply the effectual demand, and no more, the market price naturally comes to be either exactly, or as nearly as can be judged of, the same with the natural price. […] The quantity of every commodity brought to market naturally suits itself to the effectual demand.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/smith-adam/works/wealth-of-nations/book01/ch07.htm
Thus, we distinguish between (i) effective supply and demand, and (ii) absolute supply and demand. If I desire a diamond yet do not have the means to purchase it, my demand is absolute, but ineffective. The same can be said about the example of producing 100 of commodity (x) yet effective demand being at 50 (x). Thus, "demand" measures the rate of exchange, which in the market, has its capacity by the rate of income (e.g. wages). If people were paid more thus, more could be sold in production (this is called "Keynes' Law" in popular terminology, but which is present as early as William Potter, in 1650).

So then, we see Marx sophistically equate production with supply (in the typical Hegelian agony), while Smith confers that supplied produce may not reach the market, due to ineffective demand, thus constituting the degree of waste in an economy as the difference between absolute production and effective demand. Its perhaps for this reason that Marx only conducts his analysis at equilibrium so as to satisfy a mysterious "law of exchange". So, who is the "ideologist" here, exactly? The Liberal Smith or Communist Marx?

File: 1774706653161.jpg (11.03 KB, 248x228, clip_image004_thumb31.jpg)

First we may read from Marx (1867):
<In every country in which the capitalist mode of production reigns, it is the custom not to pay for labour-power before it has been exercised for the period fixed by the contract, as for example, the end of each week. In all cases, therefore, the use-value of the labour-power is advanced to the capitalist: the labourer allows the buyer to consume it before he receives payment of the price; he everywhere gives credit to the capitalist.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch06.htm
This comports to his earlier statements, that the labour-power of the worker is a rented asset, not a sold asset. So then, we can understand Marx's theory of surplus value by this entire relation; the disparity between the period of crediting labour and its compensation.

This consideration is repeated by Hoppe, but reversed into an uncritical capitalist apologia (1993):
<What is wrong with Marx’s theory of exploitation, then, is that he does not understand the phenomenon of time preference as a universal category of human action. That the laborer does not receive his “full worth” has nothing to do with exploitation but merely reflects the fact that it is impossible for man to exchange future goods against present ones except at a discount. […] The laborer enters the agreement because, given his time preference, he prefers a smaller amount of present goods over a larger future one; and the capitalist enters it because, given his time preference, he has a reverse preference order and ranks a larger future amount of goods more highly than a smaller present one. Their interests are not antagonistic but harmonious.
https://mises.org/mises-wire/marxist-and-austrian-class-analysis
Here we immediately encounter contradiction, since the usufruct of labour by the capitalist is immediate, yet the period of payment is prolonged by a fixed term of salary, stretching from a day, to a week to a month. If the worker was paid daily, we could justify the notion that the worker has a greater time-preference, but if a worker waits a month to be paid, at the same rate as someone who is paid weekly, does this not prove exploitation? An alternative can be easily fashioned, however. Short-term loans apply a greater rate of interest than long-term loans (e.g. mortgages) based on credit, which are also under the influence of time-preference for debtors. If rates of wages are dispensed at the same value but at different intervals, then the temporal difference can be scaled by rates of interest. The monthly wage worker thus contracts a lower rate of interest than the weekly worker. Thus, it is in the direct benefit of the worker to be paid as soon as possible and in the interest of the capitalist to delay payment; but this then makes the worker the creditor and the capitalist the debtor, reversing Hoppe's argument around time-preference.

Further, if we compare earlier arguments on interest to the condition of labour, we see then that as more workers compete for borrowers, the rate of interest on labour declines, lowering the wage and extending the period of payment. Thus we can conclude that labour as a rented asset appears to operate by the rate of interest. Time-preference proves the prospectivity of labour as a factor of production, which converts present value into future value by the delayed gratification of labourers, and if justice in government and revenue is in assigning value to those of lowest time-preference, then Hoppe is crafting the theoretical groundwork for socialism, especially in his arguments around Monarchy, since if responsibility is based on ownership rather than lending, and workers own their productive asset, as opposed to capitalists merely borrowing them, then workers have the greatest imperative to government and property. Hoppe also confers correctness to Marx on class:
https://mises.org/podcasts/human-action-podcast/hans-hermann-hoppe-what-marx-gets-right


>>2758587
Yes, that's where you find the writings of Austrian Economists. Thankfully, the site retains some liberal values by issuing free texts rather than imposing copyright. 👍

EKKKonomiKKKs is fascist.

>>2758397
>If someone produces 100 of commodity (x) yet can only sell 50 of (x), is the value of the commodities determined in what is produced or in what is sold?
Maybe my question was poorly worded. I was analogizing supply to production and consumption to demand. I said it because the guy in that video said "when you hear supply and demand, immediately think production and consumption."

>>2758669
>I was analogizing supply to production and consumption to demand
They are the same thing, just in different modes.
The cause of waste is a disparity between effective demand and absolute supply. If everything which was produced was brought to market, prices would be so low as to destroy profits. Marx makes the same point in the Manifesto:
<In these crises, there breaks out an epidemic that, in all earlier epochs, would have seemed an absurdity — the epidemic of over-production. Society suddenly finds itself put back into a state of momentary barbarism; it appears as if a famine, a universal war of devastation, had cut off the supply of every means of subsistence; industry and commerce seem to be destroyed; and why? Because there is too much civilisation, too much means of subsistence, too much industry, too much commerce. The productive forces at the disposal of society no longer tend to further the development of the conditions of bourgeois property; on the contrary, they have become too powerful for these conditions, by which they are fettered, and so soon as they overcome these fetters, they bring disorder into the whole of bourgeois society, endanger the existence of bourgeois property.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm
It is the same absurdity that there should be more poverty today than in the past, despite more being created. Boisguilbert (1695) writes that cheap food is disastrous to the poor, since the cost of their labour cheapens with it. Thus, more food leads to more starvation, which is an absurdity of the capitalist age.

>>2758669
not a good place to ask your just gonna get shitlib propaganda

So why is oil getting expensive?

>>2759237
because trump is israel's bitch

This video attempts to dismantle Marxism on 2 major grounds: (i) the LTV and (ii) central planning. On the first point, the LTV is counterposed to a "subjective" theory of value (despite the LTV requiring subjective utility in its pretext). The narrator also says that unnecessary labour cannot be accounted into the value of a product (e.g. digging a hole with a spork), which just makes Marx's very argument on average labour-power, or SNLT. Finally, the narrator fails to see that the demand for labour in production is itself a subjective utility which is factored as a cost which appears in the value of a final product. Labour is itself a commodity, which regulates values in their consumption (e.g. cheap versus expensive labour). Menger's notion of higher and lower values perfectly factor into a "cost of production" theory, like Jevons.

On central planning, we can say that there is a transference between Keynes' Law ("demand creates its own supply") and Say's Law ("supply creates its own demand"), showing that market dynamics of distribution are not maintained, and so people receive whatever is given to them (by claim of receipts). This can be facilitated for (i) necessities (such as what public services currently provide), but not for (ii) consumables and (iii) luxuries. Money and markets are necessary to provide capital for prospective investment. The Austrians are perfectly right about this, which is why attempting to centrally plan a total economy is unnecessary and harmful. Thus, central planning is limited to a restricted division of labour (limiting the potential of wealth), yet increased production increases the investment of capital into further divisions of labour. The Marxist fails on this point, yet our narrator never brings it up, since he is too focused on the presumption of markets facilitating value (when Menger himself distinguishes between "goods" and "commodities"). Thus, wealth (e.g. total utility) multiplies itself, and this is comparable to the division of labour, which creates markets. It's for this reason that Marxists lack a proper theory of social wealth, and can only justify poverty (since markets are defined by relative wealth). Its not that central planning "doesn't work", but that it is inherently limited in its possibilities for productivity. That would be my criticism of the Austrian dogmatists, who misunderstand the point; Communism is a system of equivalent poverty, while Capitalism is a system of relative poverty, but scaled between starvation and glut.

Here I provide a self-selected collection of works from François Quesnay (1759-67), which comprises the main materials of what is referred to as the school of Physiocracy (the collaborators of which are the first to call themselves "Economists"). I include the Tableau Economique (1759), On Natural Rights (1765), General Maxims (1767) and The Despotism of China (1767).

>>2762441
> the LTV is counterposed to a "subjective" theory of value (despite the LTV requiring subjective utility in its pretext)
every fucking time lol

What would have happened if we got the bancor instead of dollar hegemony?

File: 1775283201036.gif (1.95 MB, 380x285, usurper.gif)

>>2764798
a keynesian world would still be capitalist and imperialist. porky would have found a mechanism of action other than petrodollar hegemony.

>>2764798
International development is always tricky due to the nature of competition; this was the struggle of early capitalism, which began by empire and mercantilism in the 16th and 17th centuries, until "free trade" was facilitated in the 18th, by zones of colonial capture. Tariffs on foreign imports was universal, except for goods which circulated within empires (this has legal precedence in the 17th century under "imperial preference" which granted subsidies to monopolies). Free trade then begins as internal markets for empires (while domestic goods were traded freely by custom since ancient times; unfree trade was seen as "usury", while foreign trade carried "risk" and was surcharged). You can see this continuity today where "sanctions" are placed on nations which refuse to align with empires, such as the United States. Free Trade then, is an outgrowth of Mercantile trade (as Engels writes in 1844). Development is then tied up in imperial interest, and so we see how colonies are raised up for the benefit of powers, and afterwards, abandoned for the same purposes. China is currently colonising Africa in the same way Europe did, by conscripting labour to their capital - creating mutual benefit, but to the privilege of the employer. So then, the precedence of development in history is non-competitive. Compromises by inter-national "trade deals" can also be established, such as the US giving China manufacturing blueprints, to be set under a contract of employment for a period of time. Science is a private enterprise, uuterly monopolised, as we see with how some countries are not permitted to have nuclear weapons, but who decides? The hegemon.

The same principle reigns in charities, which foster international development by exploiting local populations. Charities of course facilitate revenue by demand, supplied from suffering, so suffering is in the self-interest of all charity workers (like how crime is in the interest of the police or sickness is in the interest of doctors). We can see this practiced by Bill Gates, who is providing welfare for people as he privatises their land (like a society which replaces jobs with hand-outs). This is what Marx called "primitive accumulation", or the process of accumulating property into a few hands (Vagabond Laws and "Poor Relief" programs only occur as capitalism develops). Mass unemployment is the prelude to the lowering of wages, to create jobs. Marx also spoke of the capitalist character of colonistion (e.g. Capital Vol. 1, Chapter 33) as a means to establish wage labour - imperialism can also cause mass immigration, which pushes labour toward the centres of capital, by the precondition of eviction. Marx in perceiving the nature of Free Trade, sees that with the Acts of Union (1801) between Britain and Ireland, Ireland's industry was exported to England, while Free Trade persisted for agricultural products, now concentrated by landlords. So then, colonisation can also reverse regional development where revenues are consolidated (he writes that the British bourgeoisie and aristocracy share interests). Before 1776, the US also operated as an agricultural centre, later being replaced by Ireland (with the Irish being sent to the American colonies previously in the 1600s. Development of industry in the US was promoted by tariffs (where Marx also sees that regional development in an independent Ireland must impose tariffs). So then, Free Trade between colonies can both develop and undevelop them, according to the method of production implemented (e.g. division of labour, which can be theorised by Smith and Ricardo's "comparative advantage" of Nations). In Africa, there was much mining, so industrial capital had to be invested in, as well as railway networks and the like.

So then, all modes of international development are seemingly colonial in nature, extending down to the IMF, which of course, claims rights to foreign lands by debt (and for which reason Hussein and Qadafi were killed, since they violated the currency hegemony of the petrodollar; Hussein started trading for his oil in Euros and Qadafi wanted to create an African Central Bank - the West were total allies with these men until this point). Friedrich List speaks upon the original development of modern nations in his book "The National System of Political Economy" (1841), which he relates to the protection of national industry against foreign competition, the same as Marx. The Ricardian point would be that one should develop industry to the degree that it is able to be globally competitive, like how China has embraced manufacturing, which has taken away jobs from previous Western industries, and so which should allow this deficit in the market to allow for more diverse investment, such as entertainment, which China does consume.

There is an issue however, which is trade imbalance (e.g. the West consumes more from China than China consumes from the West) leading to a deficit from the West and Surplus from China. This drains national wealth, or the net deposits of currency holders, as prices inflate, taxes are raised and production slumps. This is also why Keynes sees that public credit must be in the business of investing in development (where he traces rates of inflation stabilised by real production and employment). Keynes' famous example of the gold miners suffices, where he says that gold mining is akin to the treasury putting banknotes underground and so prospectors hire labour to dig up the notes (this is now a satire of the public sector, though originally of the private sector, in the circularity of its waste). Keynes proposes the alternative of building houses. A very rough estimate of gold mining costs in 2025 was around £180,000,000,000. The market cap of BTC is also around £1,300,000,000,000.

To conclude, its really quite impossible to achieve mutual and cooperative development in a capitalist system, without underhanded competition, or profit. An international, socialist alliance is the only way to have the benefit of all be the object of social production.

File: 1775310358738.jpg (59.65 KB, 1402x152, Deboonker.jpg)

>>2762441
I like how this poster debunked a 4 minute video with 4 sentences

>>2767285
Although I will disagree on the last point since it is childish.
>bananas are grown not produced
>we have much more advanced estimation models for demand
>question is to match labor expenditure to labor consumption in the form of products. (you always want to have productive labor so there is growth in the economy)

Here I have produced a compilation of ancient and medieval economic theory (360 BCE - 1377 CE)
Included in the collection is:
(i) Xenophon - Economist (360 BCE)
(ii) Xenophon - Revenues (355 BCE)
(iii) Aristotle - Rhetoric, Book I, Chapters VI-VII (350 BCE)
(iv) Aristotle - Ethics, Book V, Chapter V (340 BCE)
(v) Aristotle - Politics, Book I (330 BCE)
(vi) Pseudo-Aristotle - Economics, Books I-II (320 BCE)
(vii) Augustine of Hippo - City of God, Book XI, Chapter XVI (426 CE)
(viii) Thomas Aquinas - A Letter on Credit Sales and Usury (1262 CE)
(ix) Thomas Aquinas - Summa Theologica, II-II, Q.77-78 (1274 CE)
(x) Giles of Lessinus - De Usuris (1278 CE)
(xi) Nicholas Oresme - De Moneta (1360 CE)
(xii) Ibn Khaldun - Muaqaddimah, Chapter V (1377 CE)

>>2767987
>>2762461
>>2753599
>>2753236
>>2731155
based. make audiobooks with elevenlabs and put it in torrents and youtube the way dessalines does


File: 1775368026220.png (60.06 KB, 750x446, ClipboardImage.png)

Modern Monetary Theory only works in a country that has strong military and currency hegemony. otherwise you just cause inflation AND you can't outsource the consequences by making other people hold reserves of your depreciating currency

Final Edition of Antoine Montchretien's "Treatise on Political Economy" (1615)

capitalism no food

Here is Dengism Elder Scroll Version 9.0

Who's smith anon and what did he do exactly to piss off so many people ? I seem to hear about him a lot.

hey smith
jevons mentioned in this vid posted to iran thread 58

>>2780662
he's the one liberal on here who admits he's a liberal rather than pretending otherwise lol. read through the archives starting with thread 1. just ctrl+f smith and you'll get an idea. he doesn't actually name himself smith anon but he talks a lot about adam smith and, in the later threads, jevons, so you'll know him by that. also his posts are very long and cite a lot of sources.

File: 1776245613385.jpg (101.56 KB, 1459x1459, Democritus.jpg)

We may read from Democritus: "The desire for wealth, if not limited by satiety, is much harder to endure than the most extreme poverty; for greater desires create greater lacks." (Fragment 83). Following from the example of Aristotle (Ethics V.V), we see that money is simply a representation of Demand, and further (Politics I.IX), it is only a substitute for real wealth, since the man who has much money cannot consume it for sustenance. Thus, money is in itself impoverishing, like "Midas Touch" (which transforms everything one touches into gold).

Xenophon's Socratic dialogue "Economist" (360 BCE) also explores a paradox of wealth (Chapter II), that the more wealth one gains, the more one must spend in order to preserve it, making wealth a self-defeating venture. This is intuitive enough, for likewise that the state is a construct of preserving property (Cicero - De Officiis, II.XXI), the increase of property must increase the state, taxing old wealth for the new, thus destroying property for the sake of property. In this case, the demand for wealth causes its destruction, like spending money to make more money (t. Xenophon - Revenues, 355 BCE). The conversion of present goods into future goods we may then regard as capital, which by its investment, introduces perpetual poverty.

Xenophon (Revenues, 355 BCE) sees that the only way to increase the wealth of the Polis is by mining for more silver to increase the coinage, to increase commerce. This he tasks with the state to invest in slaves, which will be evidently paid for by taxation. Thus, the capacity of commerce is inversely measured by public spending, creating impoverishment for the sake of marginal gain. What does not hurt the master's purse (e.g. total employment) hurts the slave himself (e.g. labour time), and so the result of riches is proportional poverty.

Even the things of riches; precious stones and precious metals, are useless compared to what is common, as Aristotle writes: "Further, what is rare is a greater good than what is plentiful. Thus, gold is a better thing than iron, though less useful: it is harder to get, and therefore better worth getting. Reversely, it may be argued that the plentiful is a better thing than the rare, because we can make more use of it. For what is often useful surpasses what is seldom useful, whence the saying: The best of things is water.” (Rhetoric I.VII). This is the "paradox of value" later stated by others, namely Adam Smith (1776), that luxury is defined by its cost of production, which concurrently aligns with general uselessness (Jevons, 1871). Thus, greater capital investment often means a lesser total product, not a greater one, and so like money, wealth is conserved by its transference into useless things, incapable of sustenance, and thus only attain their demand as a means of exchange. Money is a possession made to be dispossessed; it is wealth which is simultaneously poverty; he that sells everything for money imagines himself rich, yet he is the poor:
<For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? (Matt 16:26)

We can see an admission of the failure of the complexity (variability) of wealth by Jevons (1878):
<As society becomes more complex and the forms of human activity multiply, so must multiply also the points at which careful legislation and continuous social effort are required to prevent abuse, and secure the best utilisation of resources […] crime and ignorance and drunkenness show no apparent diminution—nay, sometimes they show an increase.
https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/jevons-methods-of-social-reform-and-other-papers#lf0236_head_003
So then, as capital increases, the state increases, and liberties are restrained. Jevons even speaks upon the misery which the capitalist era has brought to England:
<England is traditionally called “Merrie England;” but there has always seemed to me to be something absurdly incongruous in the name at present. It is a case of anachronism, if not of sarcasm. England may have been merry in the days when the village green and the neighbouring common were still unenclosed; when the Maypole was set up, and the village fiddler and the old English sports were really existing institutions. But all that sort of thing is a matter of history. […] There is no difficulty in seeing that there is a tendency, in England at least, to the progressive degradation of popular amusements.
https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/jevons-methods-of-social-reform-and-other-papers#lf0236_head_003
All manners of amusement he mentions are medieval in conception, when England was "merry" yet untouched by heavy industry, and before the mass privatisation of common land. The increase of wealth then, is not an aid to the benefit of men, but a means of his destruction.

Marx of course makes the same point; that the total productivity of the worker is in proportion to his misery; Jevons also happens upon this (1871), by seeing how higher wages comport to less duration in production, and thus the inverse is true, that the longer one works, the less he will be paid for it. Productivity then, is the enemy of man's happiness. We may further relate the paradox of wealth by Keynes (General Theory, X.VI), where spending money to make money, in the mining of gold, is equivalent to digging up bottles full of dollars, which engages men in production, but as yet, makes men utterly unproductive, by the circularity of the act. This of course is now the agenda of the public sector, which creates artificial demand for busy work. Thus, the supply of labour serves vain ends in this way, by calling to the duty of a self-imposed poverty, while avoiding the causes of real poverty. But as we know, a person is only useful to what is lacking in another; thus, it is in the interest of a doctor to have people be sick, like Khaldun writes (Muqadimmah, V.XXVIII). Poverty then, is the cause of riches, since riches is its own form of poverty.

One possible practical solution, then, is to regulate the production of luxuries (which is in essence, the program of socialism). Adam Smith once suggested the same, after Rousseau (1755), that in taxing luxury goods "the indolence and vanity of the rich is made to contribute in a very easy manner to the relief of the poor" (Wealth of Nations, (V.I.III). This is like how Keynes says that the funds for gold mining ought to be put toward constructing homes, and thus capital to be re-allocated to more pressing demands. Jevons (1883) compares the multiplication of social utility likewise after Gossen (1854), as the variability of consumption, which implies a proportional division of labour, but even if as Jevons admits (1871), the total utility of necessary and consumable goods is superior to Luxury, then the limits to the division of labour ought to be set at the limit of social need, which we may cultivate by public funds. Jevons and Smith, even as Liberals, still supported public ownership of certain utilities, such as the Post Office and Railways, so subsidisation has precedence.

The critique of wealth then resolves itself to the inevitable class warfare of limiting luxury to the ends of social need. In numbers, we may read statistics:
https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/luxury-goods/worldwide?srsltid=AfmBOopgIqhRGHhVKCQjVTufJOoyHQrr4uxthIhf-UhsC09flyephzi6#revenue
The total market revenue for luxuries is around $500B/y, which means $500B which can be re-distributed. The critique of wealth then begins negatively, where demand materialised in money is an active dis-possession of social wealth (all wise men, such as Lao Tzu, Confucius, Socrates and Jesus lacked money, by their own choice). Money then, is a negative magnitude (e.g. debt), as elaborated by David Graeber. The positive critique of wealth is in capital allocation, which if unregulated, leads to inherent inequality, which simultaneously expands the state, creating absolute political tyranny. The Ricardian revision would be to re-frame wealth contra value, but wisdom does not permit the things of consumption to be felt as inherently beneficial, either, and so if a society is determined productively, it is always attempting to gain from a permanent loss. Thus, the critique of wealth is in a way, a critique of civilisation.

The poets speak of a Golden Age, where men have no need of toil; where all things are given by Nature. This was evidently prehistoric, when Cronus ruled the heavens. May the titans overthrow the gods!

File: 1776410024085.png (234.5 KB, 1008x560, ClipboardImage.png)

grate minds grok alike

>>2784332
Great! Now as long as the general public own this technology, there shouldn't be any issue… What say, Elon?

>>2784335
wow how authoritarian of you. why should the public own what an individual creates?

>>2784936
Are you implying that Elon Musk builds his own electric cars?

>>2784985
no im making fun of mr smiths capitalist apoligism since he is an advocate of ubi as a defense of private ownership and the idea that machines create value as a critique of marxism doing away with the necessity of communist revolution.

>>2768515
It's crazy how a lot of communists completely misunderstand Modern Monetary Theory and systematically say "it can only work if you are the imperialist hegemon!!!" and think they are really smart and above monetary dynamics they do not grasp. But they are not the only ones, libertarians are the same. Also this picture is stupid because it doesn't explain the mechanism in the slightest, countries all around the world print fiat money all the time, everyone did it massively during the COVID-19 crisis but it wasn't MMT.

So MMT is a program that aims to stimulate economic activity with direct state intervention funded by money printed by a central bank, and posits that national debt doesn't matter as much as most people think it does.
Of course, if a central bank does print money carelessly and unilaterally, it causes inflation, MMT never denied this.

However, you can solve the inflation problem provided your country meets the following criteria:
  • Its currency isn't commodity money but pure fiat. Already the case all around the world.
  • It has sovereignty over its currency, meaning it's the issuer of its own currency. El Salvador, but also every Eurozone country and West African countries using the franc CFA don't meet this criteria for example.
  • Its currency isn't pegged to a foreign one and is free-floating. China doesn't meet this criteria, however Russia, Canada, Brazil and India do.
  • Now this is starting to get interesting: the country must not have debts denominated in foreign currencies, because you can't decide of the monetary policy of other countries, and you need to acquire their currency in order to pay back your debts. One reason Japan can have such a huge national debt isn't just because of some vague "imperialism" but because Japanese banks own the majority of the national Japanese debt.

Ok, let's say you have this set of conditions, so you print a bunch of money, start a full employment program, and now the inflation kicks in. What do you do?
Now, we are getting into the heart of the matter: you need to raise taxes, especially on rich people.
Why? Within this set of conditions, taxing people is the equivalent of destroying money, or rather, withdrawing it from circulation.

Inflation is caused by too much money being in circulation compared to the aggregate value of the domestic production, to simplify things. When a state taxes people, it's equivalent to removing this money from circulation. The state can sit on this tax money and do absolutely nothing with it, and bring it back into the circulation when it sees fit.

And why taxing the rich specifically? It's not just an ethical concern for justice and equality or something, it's because rich people tend to hoard money and not spend it that much compared to the magnitude of what they own. Someone living paycheck to paycheck however, is spending most of their income. Taxing the rich would encourage them to spend more, since otherwise the money they hoard would get destroyed by the state. If you add to this a state-funded full employment program, giving a good wage to everyone, people who are currently poor would also spend more, and it would boost economic activity tremendously.

Do you understand now? It's not that "MMT is only possible if your state is the imperialist hegemon", it's that MMT is not in the interest of the bourgeoisie. They don't want to be taxed more. They don't want full employment. If you tell the average prole that the state can't afford welfare programs or starting a job program because the national debt is huge, they will believe you and stay docile. That's simply why MMT isn't being put into practice, but the theory is sound.

>>2785003
> a lot of communists completely misunderstand Modern Monetary Theory and systematically say "it can only work if you are the imperialist hegemon!!!" and think they are really smart and above monetary dynamics they do not grasp
Hmm…

>However, you can solve the inflation problem provided your country meets the following criteria:

> Its currency isn't commodity money but pure fiat. Already the case all around the world.
> It has sovereignty over its currency, meaning it's the issuer of its own currency. El Salvador, but also every Eurozone country and West African countries using the franc CFA don't meet this criteria for example.
> Its currency isn't pegged to a foreign one and is free-floating. China doesn't meet this criteria, however Russia, Canada, Brazil and India do.
> Now this is starting to get interesting: the country must not have debts denominated in foreign currencies, because you can't decide of the monetary policy of other countries, and you need to acquire their currency in order to pay back your debts. One reason Japan can have such a huge national debt isn't just because of some vague "imperialism" but because Japanese banks own the majority of the national Japanese debt.
…Are there any non-hegemonic countries that satisfy all 4 of these conditions?

>>2785006
Countries as diverse as Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Russia, India, Australia, South Africa, Japan, South Korea, Indonesia and New Zealand already fulfill the first three conditions.
I'm not a financial expert so I don't know the debt situation of these countries, but if they manage to settle their debts denominated in foreign currency, they would fulfill the fourth condition, and Japan could perhaps be a good candidate for this if they would play their cards right.
And then there is the final condition, the taxing one. Just look at what the BlackRock CEO says immediately after the Bloomberg interviewer asks him a question about MMT in vid related at 4:08, that should answer your question.

>>2785014
>Japan could perhaps be a good candidate for this if they would play their cards right.
lmfao that is not good for your argument buddy Japan is probably the only country more synonymous with imperialism than the USA itself.

>>2785018
My argument is that you can't just say "muh imperialism" and keep it at that if you don't understand the economic theory, it's an act of pure laziness. Like look, you just say:
>Japan is probably the only country more synonymous with imperialism than the USA itself.
You don't explain why, you don't elaborate, you just claim something smugly and that's it.
I explained to you the five conditions needed to implement MMT, I gave you a diverse list of countries who are both "imperialist" and "not imperialist" according your vibes, and what they need to do.
If you read my post carefully and critically, you can come up with actual criticism of MMT that don't repose on vibes, but actually economical and political dynamics.
Marx studied the liberal economists of his time, and didn't just say "Ricardo is wrong because he is imperialist". He engaged with his theory, and did a full critique of it. Marxists on this website seem incapable of doing that.

>>2785018
Also, the post I've originally responded to said
>Modern Monetary Theory only works in a country that has strong military and currency hegemony
Japan neither has a strong military like the US does, and it absolutely doesn't have currency hegemony like the US, there is only one world's reserve currency and it's the US dollar. That was my whole point, MMT is doable without these two conditions.

>>2785016
>Countries as diverse as Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Russia, India, Australia, South Africa, Japan, South Korea, Indonesia and New Zealand already fulfill the first three conditions.
but does anyone besides the USA have all 4

>>2785030
>MMT is doable without these two conditions.
literally only the USA gets away with printing endless currency to pay its debts because it gets to outsource the consequences


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