Am I the only one on here with Epstein fatigue?
I hate this shit. I hate how the Epstein debacle has even made leftists throw out solid understandings of class and imperialism. WHO GIVES A FUCKING SHIT if the ruling class are baby-eating Satan-worshipping Illuminati? THEY'RE STILL EXPLOITING PROLES AND SHOULD BE OPPOSED ON THIS REASON ALONE.
But what really fucking grinds my gears is seeing how tenaciously Democrats and liberals are desperate to turn Epstein into Russiagate 2.0. They sincerely believe they can use the Epstein shit to remove Trump from office and put him in jail for the rest of his life. First of all, as a cis woman who is also a sexual assault survivor, I can tell you that sexual assault is one of the hardest crimes to prove in a court of law. Even if Trump wasn't rich and didn't have the money to get away with his (alleged) crimes, there's still no possible way he'd ever get convicted of a statutory rape that occurred decades ago; there's simply way too much reasonable doubt. But also in this is seeing how garden-variety liberals are really, REALLLLLY pushing the "Epstein was Mossad" allegation, and that he was pimping out underage girls to get blackmail material on world leaders so they would be puppets of Israel. In the case of Trump, they're saying Trump is entirely a puppet of these "Zionist Jewish supremacists" like Epstein, and nearly everything Trump is doing policy-wise is purely in service to Israel. Liberals are even going to far as to call the current Iran War the "Epstein-AIPAC War", not just because Trump launched the war to distract from the Epstein files, but because Netanyahu has all the Epstein blackmail material on Trump and is using this to coerce him into going to war for Israel. This of course completely ignores how American Empire works and things like the US wanting to take control of Iran's oil and all that. But in this, it's very obvious to me that two things are going on here: 1. just like how the Democrats were pushing Russiagate during Trump's first term to "prove" that Trump was a "puppet of Russia" they're now using the Epstein files to "prove" Trump is a puppet of Israel/Zionists, and 2. the Democrats are now going to embrace anti-Zionism in the context of the alleged Epstein-Israel blackmail as a way of portraying themselves as the "peace party" like they did in the 2000s. There's zero doubt in my mind that most of this is motivated by the midterm elections and the Democrats' needing their party to win both the House and Senate in order to stay relevant.
But in all seriousness: Epstein serves the Democrats way more than it serves the radical left. I'm sick and tired of hearing about the "Epstein Class" as if the presence of the ultra-wealthy is somehow a bug and not a feature of capitalism. I'm sick of hearing that the problem with the ruling class is that they're immoral, and not that they exist in the first place. I just want liberals to shut the hell up and focus on issues that can actually be solved. Fuck this bullshit.
87 posts and 13 image replies omitted.>>2743541>an actual critical mass.it was a bunch of literal hippies in tents asking for more gibs
>>2743545How does the left make use of the Epstein files? Seems like the only strategy here is using them to recruit more people to the left.
>>2743552And how would a movement centred around the Epstein revelations be any different in practice?
>>2743574>the only strategy here is using them to recruit more people to the left.And why would leftists hate that, exactly? Do we want less people on board or what?
>The ruling class gets exposed
<This is actually bad
What is wrong with you motherfuckers! Trump is definitely guilty and if he is removed from office that would be a good thing.
Keep this shit in your burger containment thread.
>>2743574This is our big opportunity to eradicate the Zionist Lobby from American politics all together. Epstein proves America was being controlled by Isn’treal and now that America knows this they can finally put an end to AIPAC and Zionist ideology which operates in every facet of American society.
>>2743939"neoliberal news outlets with a radical veneer" nailed it, I don't come to leftist spaces to read r/politics posts about the epstein class that are totally not a psyop to make people vote democrat next election
>>2742620>But also in this is seeing how garden-variety liberals are really, REALLLLLY pushing the "Epstein was Mossad" allegation, and that he was pimping out underage girls to get blackmail material on world leaders so they would be puppets of Israel. In the case of Trump, they're saying Trump is entirely a puppet of these "Zionist Jewish supremacists" like Epstein, and nearly everything Trump is doing policy-wise is purely in service to Israel. Liberals are even going to far as to call the current Iran War the "Epstein-AIPAC War", not just because Trump launched the war to distract from the Epstein files, but because Netanyahu has all the Epstein blackmail material on Trump and is using this to coerce him into going to war for Israel.Antisemitism appeals to the exact same frustrations and insecurities as leftism does, so it shouldn’t be surprising placing the bulk of the blame on “JEWS” is what liberals are resorting to. It’s identical to how liberals scapegoat Evangelicals for oppressive policies without understanding why the ruling class has an incentive to go after marginalized folks like queer people, etc. regardless of religious beliefs.
>>2743960OP is largely correct: liberals care more about the Epstein files than radicals do, because it gives liberals a narrative of post-Cold War US imperialism that allows for liberalism and capitalism to be absolved. “It’s just EPSTEIN” is what liberals will tell you when it comes to why Trump implements the policies he does.
some of you guys have such fucking weird inhuman takes that they have to either be trolling or glowing
>>2743939Big picture historical and class analysis is not going to emotionally motivate most people. I know MUHTHEORYists hate that, but it's true.
>>2743628The problem is, trying to prove Trump guilty of any of this stuff is nearly impossible. Not just because “the people who are named in the files are the same people who control the legal system” but because you need a lot more evidence to arrest someone aside from a single person making an accusation. There’s a reason why the vast majority of rapists are running free and never convicted of anything. That frat boy you knew in university who raped two sorority girls at a party is now working a top-tier corporate job. Diddy couldn’t be convicted of sex trafficking. Michael Jackson was never convicted of sexual misconduct with kids. Kobe Bryant was never convicted on his rape charge. What makes you think the POTUS will?
>>2744127Who fucking cares, any revolution worth a damn would just summarily execute them anyway
>>2744130We’re specifically talking about an American legal context here. Liberals think they can use the Epstein files to finally get Trump removed from office and locked up, and I’m saying there’s no chance of that happening at all. Let’s say in 2029 a President Newsom or a President AOC tells the feds to arrest everyone named in the files, what evidence would the feds have against these people other than hearsay? What can actually be proven, especially beyond a reasonable doubt?
>>2744126So leftists should sink to the level of rightoids and liberals by abandoning intellect and appealing to moral outrage?
>>2744146Do you want to win or not? Most people are not intellectuals and never will be.
>>2744154Well all of reddit is outraged by Epstein, victory must be close! (they will vote democrat)
>>2742842Kat Abughazaleh is the future of the Democratic Party.
>>2742767“The American left” hasn’t existed since 2017 when it essentially liquidated itself into the Democratic Party in the name of stopping Trump. What we have now isn’t a real “left” but a further-left wing of the Democrats. Not even Mamdani can run on a socialist/communist party ticket. The DSA are all Democrats.
>>2743939<Ohh but what about the name you're calling the system, you have to use my pre approved term or you're not taking this seriousllyyyy. Why aren't you using the terms I want????These people are beyond help
>>2742620This is exactly something that someone in the Epstein Files would say
>>2744175Mamdani has since sold out and his original supporters who thought getting him elected would be a slap in the face to the Israeli Lobby no longer support him. I guess he's hung out at 770 Eastern Parkway too much for their liking.
>>2744172She's anti-China and wants to give more weapons to uKKKraine.
>>2744127>>2744132Trump was part of a sex trafficking coverup. That's the real scandal here and exactly what the feds could get him on.
>>2743366>>2743530glow to glow communication
>>2744309And how much evidence do they have for an arrest? The feds want slam dunks.
they hated her because she spoke the truth
ive attracted seethe simply for pointing ts out. to me acting like the epstein files are remarkable at all is just so patently absurd. honestly it feels like borderline racism in a way. like you have all these liberals ready to "start a revolution" over ts and its like lol where was the revolution for all the children who have been murdered and raped in all of the pointless imperialist wars and coups our ruling class has caused? i just think "they only 'care' because white children got raped this time" just like people only 'care' about hitler because he decided to genocide white people instead of the usual browns. it is low autism score behaviour. i can understand a normalfag thinking this way but if you see yourself as a leftist you really need to hold yourself to a better standard. at the end of the day whether the capitalist is a child rapist or not doesn't actually matter, and honestly ive just taken for granted the fact that the international ruling class are probably all child rapists because laws only function to keep prole cattle in check while vaguely appeasing them. they do not have any objective reality. just as human rights do not have any objective reality, for if they did the us govt wouldnt be committing "war crimes" all the time in the name of oil or whatever
still, there are a lot of people who for whatever reason have never bothered to sit down and look at the world objectively for a few seconds to realize that obviously our system is necessarily corrupt. these people are even the majority of the human population. i can completely forgive these people for acting like the epstein files are an actually big deal because they simply do not know any better. with that said, there is genuinely nothing interesting to gather from this event. like always, in times of heightened dissent, any serious person should use the opportunity to pull some portion of the disillusioned masses into their movement. there is a positive rhetorical force in bringing up epstein, as even the social democrats have absolutely no response when you point out the quite blatant and wide spread corruption in the government they are supposedly trying to "peacefully reform". at the same time, it is rather likely that when gavin newsom or whatever the hell gets elected after trump gets scapegoated, we are all going to pretend that this whole debacle never happened. it is what it is. you just use the passing tactical opportunities as they come
i have a fun few paragraphs on the topic of the epstein files in the current huge blogpost i am writing but im not sure if i will be done writing all of it within the lifespan of the thread. if i do finish, i might post
>>2744367Indigenous women in the US and Canada are frequently kidnapped and sex trafficked yet you never hear a peep about them. I honestly don't believe anyone would have cared if Epstein was raping Black or Brown women. He's only seen as exceptional because all of his victims were white.
>>2742620Are you the mexican leftcom? How many of you are there?
>muh jooz
>muh trooooooooooomp
>muh ZOOOOOOOOOOOG
>muh epsteeeeeein
>>2744126>motivateThis dude doesnt believe in the working class. He thinks working class must be tricked and manipulated towards communism. Permaban this man NOW!!! DO IT NOW! PARTY DOESNT COMMAND AND GIVE ORDERS TO WORKERS!!! IT IS THE JOB OF WORKERS THEMSELVES TO LIBERATE THEMSELVES. THEY LEAD THEMSELVES THROUGH PARTY, or something.
>>2743939Isn't amerikkka the same?
Acting as if racism is behind is behind imperialism and the global economy?
>>2742620Liberals only care about the Epstein files more than radicals because:
- They think the files can win them elections
- The idea that rich people behave immorally due to their unlimited wealth and power is shocking to them, because they still adhere to the bullshit notion of good vs. bad rich people. I remember when liberals were fans of Elon Musk because his company made electric cars.
>>2742628>>2742635Here's an answer:
- Some people are being investigated. The fact that these files exist is because there was an investigation.
- While the files are public, the investigation is not. Don't let the fact that the investigative bodies don't live-tweet every detail of their work for your satisfaction fool you into thinking that nothing is happening.
- The DOJ is so intertwined with some of the people that are or would be investigated that it doesn't have an incentive to prioritize the investigation, nor to be transparent about the process.
- A lot of what you lot consider evidence and what some random dude on TikTok claims to be irrefutable evidence isn't actually evidence at all.
- Being "in the Epstein files" can mean anything from offhandedly being mentioned in an email once to being implicated as an accomplice. Still, that alone might not be sufficient evidence for a conviction, so more work needs to be done. Which leads to point 6:
- Investigations take time. While we want quick and speedy justice, that's just not feasible if we prioritize convictions over speed. Any minor mistake and crucial evidence can be dismissed by a good lawyer, and there goes the trial. If you want these people to actually be locked up, thorough investigation is much, much more in your interest than quick results.
Unless there are direct admission emails are unlikely to meet the criminal evidential burden of proof for rape or sexual offences. Most of the stuff people post about the files on social media are circumstantial at best and prejudicial at worse. You need a specific crime tied to a specific person with corroboration and charges that aren’t time-barred, not just “your name showed up in a document dump.”
>THEY'RE STILL EXPLOITING PROLES AND SHOULD BE OPPOSED ON THIS REASON ALONE.
Thing is proles themselves dont care about this as long as they have their grubhub and FYP.
>>2744146>>2744154Moral outrage gets you short-term results. The left's goal is long-term results.
>>2744458Two more weeks comrade
Getting really tired of the contrapoints fan base trying to excuse the Epstein crimes away which bizarrely they try to shroud in 'serious' or orthodox Marxism talking yet they themselves don't even have a Marxist understanding of how the entire nexus of organized crime and the military intelligence complex operates within the capitalist system.
I am having extreme fatigue caused people unironically thinking class analysis means treating the capitalist class as some sort indefinite blob floating in the sky like a cloud or something. Their understanding of 'class analysis' mirrors that more of orthodox theology than that of an actual materialist science.
>>2744425post written by chatgpt
>>2744501It's the same when you point out America's role in the capitalist system, they'll immediately start complaining about China and Russia and how really, all states are bourgeois and/or imperialist and really you shouldn't focus on one state in particular because actually it's much better if you just talk about capitalism as an amorphous undefined blob
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