/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

It's not that deep maoists and anarchists have more violent tendencies so they get targeted with higher levels. even the Marxist Leninists that got repressed back in the day in USA it was nothing, like the cpusa wasn't getting murdered but the maoist panthers were. anarchists and maoists are a potential terror threeat, its ingrained into their ideas but the feds know this is not ingrained into the ideas of all communists.

The FBI was created after an Anarchist shot McKinley

>>2742803
>meanwhile ml groups mostly just host panels at universities
I mean that's why.

>like why did the state stop caring about leninists who actually wanna seize state power
Have you considered this is more of a Lacanian desire thing than it is based in any empirical facts. That is, those university panels where they imagine themselves as laying the groundwork to seize state power is essentially a justification and explanation of subjective lack (Freudian/Lacanian castration), or put simply it's what they desire to believe rather than anything to do with fact, so yeah, ideologically interpellated the MLs will not do anything and won't change in the face of facts either because they want to preserve what they desire to be true *sniff*

Because they are the closest thing the us has to leftists
Still doesnt prove them right though

The contemporary American left presents a peculiar dialectical contradiction; the very forces most committed to revolutionary transformation have been systematically captured and neutralized through mechanisms that render open repression largely unnecessary. The United States government, building on decades of counterinsurgency refinement, has developed sophisticated methods of hijacking and directing centralized communist organizations from within, transforming potential threats into managed opposition. These groups continue to exist, continue to publish, continue to hold meetings but their trajectory, their tactical horizons, and their capacity for genuine agitation have been subtly but decisively shaped by forces they neither recognize nor acknowledge. Open repression becomes superfluous when the target has already been rendered harmless through what might be termed passive counter-insurgency. The strategic cultivation of leadership layers committed to respectability, legalism, political careers, and the endless deferral of struggle.

Into this vacuum steps a formation the state has learned to name "anarchist", a label applied with increasing promiscuity to any American leftist who demonstrates capacity for actual agitation, psychological warfare, or physical engagement outside the boundaries of what passive counter-insurgency permits. The term functions as a category of convenience, a way of naming that which refuses to be managed. When revisionist party functionaries and the embedded operatives who often guide them encounter Marxists who insist on real struggle, the accusation of "anarchism" serves as both excommunication and containment strategy. It drives the serious toward the door even as it reassures those remaining that they have chosen the correct path.

The result is a strange convergence. Marxists who refuse passivity find themselves increasingly aligned with anarchists who understand the state's operations with precision. The media, the police, and the revisionist old guard all collapse this diversity into a single threatening category "anarchist," "antifa," whatever new term emerges to name the unmanageable. But the reality beneath the label is a decentralized left formation encompassing varied belief systems, united not by doctrine but by a shared refusal to be captured by the state and it's bourgeois logic.

This confusion around terminology, the frantic search for a new word to describe this emerging threat "antifa, racial extremist" reflects a deeper material reality. The state faces something it cannot easily categorize because it cannot easily penetrate. These formations understand how modern states function at the level of lived practice. They have studied repression not as abstract theory but as immediate threat. They have developed sophisticated analyses of psychological operations within movements, of infiltration patterns, of the subtle ways state power shapes struggle activity. Teams of organic intellectuals, sociologists, organizers, street fighters, continuously refine praxis, analyzing how states move so they might move differently.

One may disagree with anarchist positions on post-revolutionary organization. One may hold that their analysis of the transitional phase lacks theoretical rigor. But on American soil in the present moment, these formations represent the most threatening current within left politics precisely because they have retained what centralized organizations have lost; the capacity to act. They understand that theory without praxis is fetish. They understand that the state must be studied as one studies any adversary, without illusion, without sentimentality, without the deference that passive counter-insurgency cultivates.

Consider the "property destruction" debates that followed the anti-globalization movement of the 90s. What appeared to many Marxists as emotional release or adventurism was, from within these formations, a materially grounded tactic with specific political objectives. The destruction of corporate property was never intended to immediately build working-class power or seize the means of production. It was intended to force the liberal wing of the movement into open confrontation with its own allegiances. When liberals had to defend property against direct attack, their commitments became visible, not through debate but through action. They were identified, confronted, and ultimately removed from spaces where they had functioned as a moderating, counter-insurgent force. The tactic was not economic; it was a political trap to attack liberalism that attached to movements. It was aimed not at capital directly but at capital's agents within the movement.

This is the kind of psychological praxis that terrifies the bourgeoisie state. Not because it will overthrow capitalism tomorrow, but because it demonstrates an understanding of how struggles are captured and neutralized, and a willingness to act on that understanding. The anarchists have studied counter-insurgency. They have learned to recognize liberalism as a transmission belt for state influence. They have developed tactical responses that operate at the level of psychology and movement dynamics rather than merely at the level of policy debate.

The Marxist tradition has much to offer this emerging formation, such as strategic coherence, historical depth, a more developed understanding of what comes after. But it also has much to learn. The anarchists have kept alive something essential, that is the recognition that theory must be tested in struggle, that the state must be studied as an adversary, and that movements which cannot defend themselves from internal capture cannot hope to challenge external power. For Marxists serious about revolution rather than reform, the task is not to police the boundary between anarchism and Marxism but to synthesize a struggle against the bourgeois and their state. Anarchists filled the ranks of the old communist parties alongside workers of all types, and Marxists will fill the ranks of the decentralized movements alongside workers of all types, because it's what the insurrection demands.

Around the January 6th events some Floridan anarchist said there should be armed resistance against fascism on internet and he was put in prison 4 years. I remember self described mls here cheering this move by the US government, so in a way I'm not exactly surprised they get more along with the feds.

In a related matter the only leftist ever put in supermax was guy in vidrel for throwing molotovs, which failed to ignite, at a building.

>>2743879

I'd like to note, that in the picture I included, the idea that the FBI only began investigating anarchists after "destruction against the US federal court house" was proven false by an FOIA that showed the FBI was following anarchist publishers and organizers within the area across multiple state lines almost 2 years prior to the may day "court house attacks". the repression targeting the Pacific Northwest's leftists that intensified during Trump's first presidency was not an aberration but the continuation of a long-established tradition. Im going to attempt to list documents major federal and local repressive actions against so-called "anarchists" in the region from the 1990s through the Obama era, demonstrating a consistent pattern of surveillance, infiltration, grand jury coercion, and prosecution that spans multiple decades of administrations and DOJ leadership changes.

>>1990s, The Emergence of the "Eco-Terrorist" Framework

The FBI launched the nation's largest-ever investigation into environmental radicalism, targeting an Earth Liberation Front cell based in Eugene, Oregon. The probe led to federal charges against 18 core conspirators for at least 20 alleged acts of arson and sabotage causing an estimated $20 million in damage. Targets included the Oakridge Ranger Station (1996), Cavel West horsemeat packing plant in Redmond (1997), U.S. Forest Industries office in Medford (1998), and Vail ski resort in Colorado (1998). The FBI classified these acts as "domestic terrorism," establishing a legal framework that would later be applied to anarchists more broadly

Following the major Vail ski resort arson, the FBI officially designated ELF / ALF members as "terrorists" and the media adopted the term "eco-terrorist." In fact the unabomber was considered connected to this wave indirectly, and many feds assumed he was associated with them before they identified Ted. This marked a significant expansion of the terrorism framework to include politically motivated property destruction, setting precedent for future anarchist prosecutions and "domestic terrorist" labels.

>>World Trade Organization Intelligence Sharing

On September 3, 1999, the FBI's Seattle office formally requested that the Portland office provide "information on past anarchist activities (in particular groups within Eugene, OR), intelligence on future actions or travel by these groups, and identities of individuals" in preparation for the upcoming WTO protests. This document, preserved in Seattle municipal archives, demonstrates coordinated federal monitoring of anarchists months before any protest activity is expected


During the "Battle of Seattle," approximately 300-500 black-clad anarchists employing "hit-and-run tactics" and operating in small "affinity groups" disrupted WTO talks while a mass of peaceful protesters provided human shields. Police Chief Norm Stamper admitted authorities were overwhelmed by decentralized coordination via cell phones / beepers (this is 1999), with simultaneous actions occurring across the city being used to divert police from the conference, allowing the Anarchists and friends to shut it down. The FBI labeled the destruction of a Gap store as "terrorism." Stamper announced his early retirement immediately afterward. Clinton himself called anarchists out.


>>Following the WTO protests, national media painted Eugene as a "hotbed for anarchists." Local business officials expressed concern that Eugene's image had been "tarnished" and that the city would now be viewed as "home to rock-throwing anarchists bent on tearing down the free market." Police acknowledged they had "no idea how many anarchists there are in Eugene let alone the region as a whole," highlighting the challenge of tracking decentralized networks

2001, Passage of the PATRIOT Act granted federal law enforcement expanded authority to surveil political groups, including those labeled "domestic terrorists." This provided legal cover for ongoing monitoring of anarchist and environmental activists in the Pacific Northwest.

During this period there were some very shady arrests, one guy was federally imprisoned, then before his trial for "conspiracy" related charges, suddenly there were "child porn" charges added. He was found dead in his cell the day before his trial. Multiple people in his affinity group got 15 year sentences related to actions from the late 90s.

>>FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force maintained ongoing surveillance of anarchist communities across the Pacific Northwest, particularly in university towns and activist hubs. The bureau's own PowerPoint presentations from this era described anarchists as disaffected dropouts being led by "young, middle to upper middleclass, and educated" academic leaders while expressing concern they were becoming disorganized and thus harder to track

>>During Occupy Portland protests, local police and federal authorities closely monitored anarchist participants according to FOIA results. Portland cops expressed specific concerns about "capital 'A' Anarchists running amuck," and the experience contributed to the surveillance framework later deployed in 2012

>>2012, During May Day marches, approximately a dozen black-clad protesters attacked the William Kenzo Nakamura U.S. Courthouse in downtown Seattle, causing tens of thousands of dollars in damage to the federal building and nearby businesses including Niketown. Mayor Mike McGinn declared a civil emergency


This is when the fbi and local police in the northwest JUMPED, and began widespread swat raids across the board. They used grand-jury as a tool.

>>Portland anarchists Katherine "Kteeo" Olejnik, Matthew Duran, Leah-Lynn Plante, and Dennison Williams were subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury in Seattle. All were granted immunity without request, a tactic that removes Fifth Amendment protections. When they refused to testify about friends, social activities, and political beliefs, they were jailed for civil contempt. Olejnik and Duran remained in custody for five months, often in solitary confinement

Leah-Lynn Plante was released after only one week in custody, sparking speculation within anarchist networks that she had cooperated. The Committee Against Political Repression suspended support for her due to "lack of information" about what questions were asked or answered. Plante's case highlighted the psychological pressure of indefinite detention

>>2013

A federal judge ordered the release of Olejnik and Duran after five months' imprisonment, ruling that their declarations were "persuasive" that they would "never end their confinement by testifying." The judge explicitly noted their "physical health has deteriorated sharply and their mental health has also suffered from the effects of solitary confinement." Both walked free without having cooperated, though they still faced potential contempt convictions looming over them; the federal grand jury continued its investigation into the May Day courthouse damage, with prosecutors bringing witnesses before the panel. The U.S. Attorney's Office insisted "we do not investigate or seek to silence lawful free speech, or dissent," while activists characterized the probe as a "witch hunt" and "fishing expedition" targeting anti-capitalist political beliefs


>>onward

"This morning, Friday April 27th, 2018 FBI agents visited at least three houses in Seattle and left business cards with the names of individuals they wanted to talk to written on the back. At one house the agents picked packages up on the porch and pretended to be delivery people in order to confirm the identities of those living there. When it became clear they were not delivery people the door was quickly slammed in their faces.

These visits have become a yearly ritual. In the week before May Day, the feds do the rounds to make sure that everyone knows they are watching. We should see this for what it is – an intimidation tactic and part of a strategy of repression designed to scare people out of organizing. It is important to take visits like this seriously, but their predictability also makes it fairly clear that they are mostly intended to make people feel afraid.

We are sharing this information here because we believe that communicating about repression is essential to keeping each other safe and to ensuring that it does not achieve it’s desired end – leaving communities feeling isolated and afraid."

"In our conversation with this person, we learned that the other individual secured a lawyer and agreed to a meeting with an FBI agent. We were told that at this meeting the FBI agent asked about protests against Cop City Lacey as well as Palestine solidarity protests. The FBI agent also asked about different Telegram channels and Signal groups.

While it can be tempting to speculate on intentions and investigations, it is more important that we stick to information that we know. What we know is that the FBI is investigating protests against Cop City Lacey, as well as protests and political action in solidarity with Palestine and Atlanta. We also know that one individual sat down with their lawyer and the FBI."




THE PICTURE IS TOTALLY REAL, THIS IS THE CARD THAT WAS GIVEN TO THE ANARCHISTS

>>2742803
It's tied to the Earth Liberation Front and other anti-oil & gas industry anarchists. Modern TERFism which is also sponsored by the fossil-fuel industry is an offshoot of Deep Green Resistance which is an obvious fed/agent provocateur. MLs don't really attack the fossil-fuel industry as much for whatever reason.

>>2743968

Lets not forget, the political power that helped the FBI designate these groups as terrorists didn't emerge from nowhere. it was the direct result of sustained lobbying by the very industries the anarchists targeted. The pharmaceutical, fur, oil, and factory farming industries spent years cultivating relationships with federal law enforcement and pushing for legislation that would criminalize their opponents.

In 1992, Congress passed the Animal Enterprise Protection Act following heavy industry pressure. The Fur Commission USA later noted that the law was a direct response to "animal rights activists and eco-terrorists" who had "caused millions upon millions of dollars in damage" to their profits. But even then the industry wasn't satisfied. After September 11, 2001, they saw an opportunity. The biomedical and fur industries lobbied aggressively for expanded legislation, and in 2006 Congress passed the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, which George W. Bush signed into law . Under its terms, activists who damaged property or disrupted the profit line of an animal business could be convicted of terrorism even when no violence was involved .

The relationship went far beyond legislation. Documents obtained through FOIA requests reveal that the FBI's Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate maintained regular contact with industry groups like the Animal Agriculture Alliance . In 2015, FBI veterinarian Stephen Goldsmith told a trade publication, "Animal rights and environmental groups have committed more acts of terrorism than Al Qaeda" . Four years later, emails show Goldsmith met with AAA representatives and then circulated their intelligence about activist groups within the FBI .

The industry didn't just lobby, they spied just as they spied on the labor organizers of the old days. The Animal Agriculture Alliance hired undercover operatives to infiltrate anarchist meetings, obtain photographs and audio recordings, and file confidential reports to share with federal authorities . One internal document shows the AAA budgeted $4,500 to send an operative to an activist conference in Berkeley . The Fur Commission, National Association for Biomedical Research, and other industry groups had been feeding intelligence to the FBI since at least the 1980s .

In California, college student Zoe Rosenberg now faces up to five-and-a-half years in prison for rescuing four sick chickens from a factory farm. Prosecutors labeled her a "biosecurity risk" and she spent over a year on an ankle monitor . The charges rest on the same framework industry spent decades constructing. As Ryan Shapiro of Property of the People put it, "Factory farms are a nightmare for animals and public health. Yet, big ag lobbyists and their FBI allies are colluding to conceal this cruelty and rampant disease by shifting blame to the anarchists working to alert the public"

>Why does it seem like most of the heavy handed police repression and operations in USA that use lethality have been against anarchists?

Because the CPUSA and DᛋᛋA, the two leading parties in the American left, are class collaborationists who exist specifically to destroy the American left. They have served their purpose of funneling the revolutionary energy of the left away from anything useful and into the Democratic Party, where it can be contained and destroyed. This is why these organizations continue to exist and suffer no repression from the state.

Not to mention most MLs just mechanically apply Lenin to 21st century America and end up working inside the AFL-CIO, an explicitly anti-Communist organization that exists to PREVENT a militant, organized working class from ever emerging. They feebly cite Lenin's "Left Wing Communism" about working inside reactionary trade unions but fail to recognize that Lenin said to do this because these unions represented the masses of workers in early 20th century Europe, while the modern AFL-CIO represents only about 10%. By working inside this dead end, MLs have essentially guaranteed that they will make no progress of note.

>>2744000
Huh. Interesting. Do you have any recommended further readings?

>>2743879
>>Consider the "property destruction" debates that followed the anti-globalization movement of the 90s. What appeared to many Marxists as emotional release or adventurism was, from within these formations, a materially grounded tactic with specific political objectives. The destruction of corporate property was never intended to immediately build working-class power or seize the means of production. It was intended to force the liberal wing of the movement into open confrontation with its own allegiances. When liberals had to defend property against direct attack, their commitments became visible, not through debate but through action. They were identified, confronted, and ultimately removed from spaces where they had functioned as a moderating, counter-insurgent force. The tactic was not economic; it was a political trap to attack liberalism that attached to movements. It was aimed not at capital directly but at capital's agents within the movement.


Holy based i never considered this.


>>2743958

isnt it illegal to dox an agent like that why would he put his picture on his card?

>>2744060

https://www.hoopladigital.com/ebook/green-is-the-new-red-will-potter/11860166

^ This was written by a journalist who was visited by the FBI for "legitimizing the ALF" with his in depth studies published about factory farming, in relation to media attention focusing on acts of sabotage. You can easily find it for sale on most platforms, but unfortunately not for free. Definitely worth picking up, because it's written by an investigative journalist with left-wing sympathies so is probably one of the best books on the subject.

Here is some free reading material;

https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-6fpsw-16418d7

https://www.ran.org/the-understory/the_fbi_s_not_so_secret_war_against_green_activists/

https://theintercept.com/2019/03/23/ecoterrorism-fbi-animal-rights/

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/framed-fbi/

>>2744036
>They have served their purpose of funneling the revolutionary energy away from anything useful and into the Democratic Party, where it can be contained and destroyed.
Y'know, it really is a strange feeling as a, "convert," of sorts I guess to realize after all this time they do the same thing to the Left they do to, "Revolutionary," groups on the Far Right.
Grim.

because maoists and anarchists are more likely to engage in adventurism

>>2744036
I would not really call the CPUSA leaders of anything. the DSA atleast does stuff, but the most the CPUSA has to offer is a book club for boomers

I was just thinking about this for same reason you might have been OP in that I listed to the latest chapo about those protesters that got gaffled up on bogus charges recently. I think it’s because the left is constantly dealing with assassinations of its leadership. So ironically anarchist with more horizontal and decentralized structures have been able to survive the constant culling of leadership the left faces. I really think the future of the left is going to be similar to Irans mosaic defense. Decentralized cells all working with an over arching goal.

>>2743879
Your post has me wondering just how much of the sectarian infighting by American leftists is a fed op.

Anarchist are notoriously anti-cop and this has s reaction from cops.

>>2747866
75%, leftist do the other 25% themselves

>>2747880
Anarchists historically and to the present view direct confrontation with the police as as a regular part of their politics and activism. I've seen that with my own eyes at demonstrations when anarchists would show up and try to get something going with the police. I've seen anarchist groups propose doing demonstrations such that the goal was to get people arrested so normies on the street would see it and somehow "wake up" to the police being their enemies, such that I couldn't tell if they really were anarchists or agent provocateurs.

Communists are not really like that, as a general rule. Well there are insurrectionary communists but it's more situational. Like maybe that is something you really only do at a decisive moment when you have mass support. The CPUSA in the 1940s would have marches and the police would push anti-communist hecklers back. It wouldn't be surprising to see the party to have gotten the right permits for the march and was making a deliberate decision to operate legally.

Because look at this board, ML's are mouthbreathing (albeit literate) morons who can't acomplish anything while drowning in daddy issues.

Also this thread will be fun

>>2747960
>McCarthyist white supremacists rather than usurious Jewish supremacists

Those are the same thing.

The obvious hot take you are begging to recieve it's that MLs do not present a danger to the present state of things. In their current form (maybe even always) they are part of the liberal order. Parties, politicians, geopolitics,… An eco-activist who attacks an oil pipeline receives a 100 years sentence cause they are a danger. An ML who has a book club, a uni talk at friday and a portrait of Stalin isn't one. Now, you can makes the argument of adventurism and la di da. But just as bad as adventurism IS larpism.

>>2747923
Saying this, it really seems like the Commies actually were more reasonable than the Anarchists.

>>2748086
Nazisim is inherently Jewish, just another inbred subhuman preying on the proletariat.

Because anarchism is a inherently uncompromising ideology, because of its anti-state nature, as a result there is no half measures, there is direct confrontation of the state or death.

>>2743660
Also this, terrorism was basically invented by anarchists.

>>2747923
Not doubting your experienxe bur this sounds ridiculous, having people being arrested is a normal part of doing effective activism or violent protests but that's just because the cops are good their job. With all the anarchists I did stuff with, minimizing the arrests through savy tactics was a big part of the thing. When people get arrested you need legal teams and further protests otherwise they throw the prisoners in a dungeon to be forgotten, and all of this process is a distracting drain in labor and resources.

In my experience the mls and trots in protests meanwhile like to take pictures of themselves to publish in the newspaper or social media and they run away at the first sight of violence, they are more scared of taking casualties than the US government and they really don't know how to even manage simple pitched battles with riot cops (they already fled 10min ago when the first tear gas grenade exploded)

>>2748198
You’re the only one that said that

>>2748198
more like shooting a mirror

>>2748220
If you believe in race you’re inherently low autism score. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of evolution, history and sociology. At best you’re a misinformed or malicious anti-social midwit. Swapping the color of your pedophile demonic overlords doesn’t change anything. They can lie about that too, you devoted followers of the bourgeoisie will believe or trick yourself into believing it if your autism score is strong enough.

>>2748242
your "movement" was brutally beaten to death nearly a century ago, your greatest accomplishment since is working as attack dogs for the liberal state, all your heroes were either pedophiles, rapists, or child abusers/murderers, you quite literally live not only in the dustbin of history, but the smegma of it, you are nothing, an absolute 0, and you cannot turn 0 into anything else, it will always be a 0, and that's what you'll always be

>>2748220
soviets didn't give a shit about i q and they had one of the world's greatest education systems, that's good enough for me

>>2748083
an inconvenient truke

>>2748220
>muh identity politics
get a load of this radlib

>>2747960
>Those antifaggots who just got charged in Texas are the first anarchists I've ever seen held accountable for anything, at least in 100 years.
Eh, it happens more often than you think, you just don't hear about it. I sort of knew a guy who spent several years in prison after his group was set up by an undercover informant (he was no longer an anarchist).

>>2748154
>Saying this, it really seems like the Commies actually were more reasonable than the Anarchists.
Yeah. Or more strategic.

>>2748205
>Not doubting your experienxe bur this sounds ridiculous, having people being arrested is a normal part of doing effective activism or violent protests but that's just because the cops are good their job.
I thought it was ridiculous and warned my people to stay away from them. But I would say the anarchists in my area have been on the stupider side (also some of them are now in prison).

>When people get arrested you need legal teams and further protests otherwise they throw the prisoners in a dungeon to be forgotten, and all of this process is a distracting drain in labor and resources.
I understand that. Well, the way I look at it, there may be times when you go into a situation where people are arrested, but it's planned out in advance as part of a larger movement strategy, like Rosa Parks getting herself arrested precisely in order to challenge the arrest. But with these anarchists I ran across, they just wanted to go get their asses beat by the cops and people would be like, wow, the cops are bad. In reality a lot of people see the cops pummeling some punks, they think the punks did something to deserve it.

But either way, if you're going to get arrested ON PURPOSE, then it should be part of a larger strategy. Otherwise you should minimize the possibility of arrest as much as possible. And I understand that there are anarchists who do think like that.

>>2748271
caca

>>2748271
>arguments
Personally I don't believe in the democratic vice known as "debate", if you want arguments you can read the texts in this thread >>2543514

>>2748271
>You people have no arguments
Reddit is this way → https://www.reddit.com/

nazis are such fucking liberals at the end of the day, unironically talking about arguments oh my days

>>2748280
and liberals are just nazis with a higher eye Q

>>2748283
Nazis are liberals

>>2748220
>Nazis are Aryan supremacists and Zionists are Jewish supremacists
its both supremacist bullshit that leaves the bankers on their side alone safe to exploit all the children they want

btw the nazis ruined themselves because instead of cancelling all debts, they just took on more loans from banksters while scapegoating the jewish ones. the war efforts were just desperate attempts to expropriate land from outside of germany in order to pay off these debts. this is what caused ww2 and what lead to hitler's retarded decision to wage a war on two front. even if you were a real national socialist (you are not, you are a degenerate funko pop white nationalist), you would condemn hitler's actions for the pro-usury cuckoldry that it was. hitler has literally killed more white people than jews ever have and you will suck his cock. yikes!

>>2748310
>"MUH ARYAN RACE"
the uyghur on the right is literally an ethnic german. stop pretending that its all just jews doing this corrupt bullshit

>>2748341
>crypto-Jew
what the fuck does that even mean? you've lost. renounce hitler or you are double pozzed uyghur for the rest of your life

>>2748377
will you vote for a democrat now that nick told you guys thats based?

>>2748377
we've reached the point where we are just inventing the early life history just to avoid material analysis

>>2747923
>>"wake up" to the police being their enemies

This, by the way, is not an anarchist tactic. It is a guerrilla warfare tactic. Guerrilla warfare has always included rioting and rowdy demonstrations as part of its repertoire as well. The IRA employed this tactic at a much larger more organized scale, understanding that sustained rowdy demonstrations, unhinged, unpredictable activity, would provoke a visibly brutal response from the British state. That brutality, in turn, would radicalize onlookers and push people into action, or turn the riotous cadres into potential IRA members as they age; the low scale action trains them for conflict, and the population gets forced into conflicts. It is a dirty tactic, but it is historically real and well documented. This is precisely why, during the George Floyd uprisings, multiple media sources parroted the line that "anarchists and agitators were using peaceful protestors as human shields." That framing is standard counter‑insurgency doctrine deployed precisely to disarm this tactic.




>>2749655

Facts everyone should be in camo-blocs now, black bloc is so 1999, it's practically a liberal NGO at this point.

>>2748264
>>2747923

I will start by saying that I am in constant motion. Migrant work has taken me through every state, and I maintain multiple homes, some more frequented than others, that I can return to when the season shifts. I worked a completely different coast last fall than I do now. Through this career, I have also remained steadily grounded in an array of left spaces, though I am hardly limited to them; more often I simply rely on the people for resources I lack myself, and they usually oblige. So I have accumulated a broad experience of different people, region by region.

I am not doubting what you have lived, but I will say it does not line up with my own interactions. That is not to claim I have never encountered what you describe. It is to say that if you are in the United States, based on the picture you paint, I would almost certainly guess you are in a smaller city, perhaps even in the South. I am not trying to dismiss or diminish struggle, but in my experience the "anarchists" in the South are the least tactful, the least experienced, the least advanced. I hate to denounce people by region, there is excellent work everywhere but when I am in southern cities, the entire resistance feels either liberal or purely emotional and sloppy, mostly experienced in clashes with racist thugs over interactions with the state, and major condensed populations. Any moment in recent history where this was not the case in the south was because a national convergence brought resources and bodies from far, far outside the immediate region. The west coast (PNW), Cali/AZ, the mid-west, and Northeast major cities are usually a different story, people will do nothing before they act in inappropriate moments; people spend their time actually building, and preparing for moments rather than chasing them. It's also easier for Marxists, and anarchists in these locations to follow insurrectionist strategy / tactics offered from metropolises in Europe or Latin America because the material conditions are similar, even the designs of the city are often shared. A lot of people study movements from highly condensed urbanized environments and attempt to apply them to wide open, small cities and suburban sprawl. America is a very culturally diverse and regionally divided place, and I'd argue some of our cities have more in common with European cities than they do certain other American cities. I've been so many places like that, where the "militant protestors" want to follow a style of tactics SO BADLY, yet that style of tactics does not offer anything realistic in their localities. They are trying to imitate movements that stand on very different terrain, and the result is something sloppy.

>>Anarchists historically and to the present view direct confrontation with the police as a regular part of their politics and activism.

That is because most American "communists" are not even revolutionary. If you are a revolutionary, you are going to be in conflict with the bourgeois state no matter what you do, your organizing stance is enough to be attacked. If "communists" are not studying ways to survive and engage in that conflict, it is likely because they occupy a revisionist position rather than a revolutionary one. In this position conflict with the state is not realistic to their existence. Most of them imagine entryism and tailing the DNC as a viable tactic.

>>I've seen anarchist groups propose doing demonstrations such that the goal was to get people arrested so normies on the street would see it and somehow "wake up" to the police being their enemies, such that I couldn't tell if they really were anarchists or agent provocateurs

Young, confused hotheads with poor local organizing culture / structure behind militancy, or like you said, police. Anarchists, like Marxists, have a number of professors who study their praxis and theories and publish results. Many of those professors are interlinked with the more "revolutionary" Marxist professors. I would argue that the real split among leftists in the United States is not between Marxist and Anarchist, but between the revolutionary and the revisionist. The anarchist professors I am thinking of often openly supported things that cost them their jobs, and tended to call Chomsky a liberal, while appearing to associate more with Maoist professors than with your "chomsky" esque types. That is just a bit of backstory. The point is, these are not leaders in the sense of commanding obedience, but they are leaders in the sense that they feed information that circulates through the movement as a whole.

One of the studies they produced was based on the very common anarchist critique of "symbolic arrests." That study argued that strategic arrests are part of a liberal counter‑insurgency; it even deep‑dived into the topic, produced material evidence, and documented the terms policing uses to define this practice. The book is called Life During Wartime: Resisting Counterinsurgency. This is why I somewhat doubt your experience is related to any leftist current beyond an over‑emotional group of young kids, or, quite literally, police looking to get people kettled and arrested. Too many people in the USA just automatically label any left-leaning Militant "Anarchist". This leads to people who want to critique certain tactics being deployed in a certain way, to instead critiquing "anarchism" as if tactics hold ideals. I'd argue that a lot of this is just counter-insurgency speak, people using red language to "peace police" workers and poor who wish to fight back. I spoke on this deeply here >>2743879


There is a distinct difference in how serious anarchist organizers and serious Marxist-Leninist organizers approach unified front events in the USA, and I have noted it across years of experience.

Anarchists, even in theory, generally operate from a framework of diversity of tactics. This means, nothing is off the table and people are expected to use tact rather than morality to guide them. They do not communicate march routes to the police, do not maintain police liaisons, and do not allow law enforcement to direct them in any way (which is what people are expected to do in the USA in order to use their first amendment). Even when a march is explicitly peaceful, intended simply to state a presence or show solidarity they almost always refuse to coordinate with police. When they have the capacity, they will engage in illegal actions within the march or shield those who do. When capacity is lacking, they avoid unnecessary short-handed conflict. Many anarchist formations employ break-off marches, snake marches, sprinting, and other high‑mobility tactics to create space away from police. Anonymity has never been negotiable for them, not solely because of illegal activity but because anarchists have been concerned with high‑tech surveillance for a very long time. Facial recognition, for example, was a regular topic in anarchist spaces for a decade before it became mainstream discourse.

The format of organizing marches among so‑called Marxist‑Leninist organizations follows a different logic. Historically, in modern USA they are the ones who engage in symbolic “arrest” models of “rowdy protest” whereas anarchists tend to favor either conflict or evasion. ML‑organized protests are often treated as NGO recruitment grounds, functioning like job fairs for organizational growth within the spectacle of activism. They are not seen as spaces of resistance or militant street politics. These groups frequently staff police liaisons within their organizations and deploy their own security to dictate the behavior of those inside the march (leading to incidents where someone shouting “non‑violent” will physically assault a young person for graffiti). Leaders with megaphones herd the crowd like cattle, using the megaphone not to agitate or maintain situational awareness but to direct people in predetermined routes and ensure the crowd disperses at a prescribed time.

Consider a concrete example. On one occasion, both anarchist formations and a coalition of leftist NGOs and liberals turned out in significant numbers in the same week. The leftist‑NGO march followed pre‑planned, parade‑style routes, it ended in a few arrests, but nothing major. The anarchist‑organized march was a general anti‑capitalist assembly open to all; they refused to disclose routes to police, constantly declined police phone calls, and brought roughly 5,000 leftists of various tendencies into the streets. Within 5 minutes, without any violence or destruction occurring, police immediately issued a dispersal warning and opened fire with rubber bullets and tear gas. People began throwing rocks, and it was chaos. The contrast in approach and in consequence could not have been starker.


Years later I still see this play out. I've seen the PSL's security teams try to steer people away from DHS facilities in multiple cities. I'm hearing a few of them got punched in the face, and a gun flashed on them for trying to do this in LA. Looks like they backed down, considering how things turned out that day - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlyW4Th3dgo


This is hilarious considering they also got punched in the face on the east coast for the same reason. They do not seek to organize revolutionary energy; they act to suppress it, redirecting everything into recruitment pipelines for NGOs and careerist projects. This is not communism. This is not Marxism. It is redlibs, liberalism dressed in the language of the left, performing radicalism while functioning as a transmission belt for the very structures revolution is supposed to dismantle. Between this and the shortcomings of anarchist formations that refuse to build durable infrastructure, the American left too often amounts to little more than glorified activism; youth circulating through cycles of protest and NGO work, perpetually attempting to build a third party that will never arrive, endlessly negotiating for space within a social democracy that has no intention of ousting the bourgeois as a class.



book mentioned, source;

https://www.academia.edu/5486857/Counterinsurgency_and_the_Occupy_Movement

>>2748200
Based

>>2749720
I'm actually pretty impressed with what the anarchists in fucking Phoenix and Tuscon have managed to start building up, good on them.
In my specific local sunbelt case I've been talking to people from several disparate groups about how our city has plenty of people in dire straits, but the combination of sprawl, legacy NGOs and the emptying out of the old interior of the somewhat dense first suburban ring has defused the powder keg, so the city appears as an apolitical zone without even a group of "militant protestors" that try to copy what they've seen on social media from the PNW.
I'm at a loss of what the way forward can look like for here and other places, beyond maybe building up a challenge to the old coalition of "standard of living improvement groups" that lost whatever bite it had in the 80s and now more openly serves as a loyal opposition to the city, asking for a new police substation here, a senior center there and immediately throwing in the towel after losing against the latest "entertainment district" boondoggle.

>>2749752

The central problem is not one of ideology or will, but of space of social reproduction in relation to class struggle. I once spoke with someone who had traveled abroad and spent time with militant Marxist-Leninist formations in the Third World, Irish republicans in Belfast, Kurdish movements in Turkey, and anarchist collectives in Athens Greece. What struck them, what they emphasized was that these militants do not simply act, then return to their individual lives within capitalism. They live together. Every day. In squats, in cadres, in shared housing where the boundary between organizing and existing dissolves. They see one another constantly, and in that proximity they build something the American left has largely lost; genuine comradery, every day structures of mutual survival, and a territorial claim on the spaces they inhabit.

What passes for movement life in the United States, by contrast, tends toward the episodic. People gather for actions. They disperse to isolated apartments, our precarious work schedules, our atomized existences. Mutual aid becomes charity , a distribution event rather than a mode of existence. We do not claim neighborhoods. We do not live with one another as a unit. We do not transform the everyday into the terrain of struggle. The changing material conditions of modern American life, the housing market, the geography of sprawl, the fragmentation of the working class conspire against the kind of dense, sustained, face-to-face organizing that characterizes movements elsewhere. But we must also name our own failure to resist these conditions, to carve out space where there is no space, to build the kind of collective life that makes daily revolutionary practice possible. The problem is not that we lack the will. It is that we lack the architecture, the squats, the cadres, the shared kitchens, the rooms where the struggle continuously engages in spheres of social reproduction. Squatting as a culture exists, and even thrives in the USA, but like everything else, it is overall hyper individualistic and isolated, centered around addiction too.

I will not claim that business unions are without failures. Their histories are entangled with bureaucracy, with compromises that have often sold out rank-and-file militancy. But when I look at the most resilient unions in the United States such the IBEW, the iron workers, what I see is a form of solidarity that the academic left too often neglects. These workers live with one another. They build relationships that extend beyond the shop floor and the contract negotiation. They know each other’s families, drink together, fight together, and in that daily, embodied comradery they forge a capacity for collective action that cannot be replicated by theory alone.

Consider even the most dispossessed in the lumpenprole or semi-employed. Your Drug crews, territorial gangs, outlaw motorcycle clubs, even the networks of homeless addicts who cluster under overpasses and in abandoned lots. Their solidarity is not theoretical. It is forged in shared daily survival, the necessity of watching one another’s back, of pooling what little they have, of breaking bread because there is no other way to eat or stay safe. I am not romanticizing these formations; their solidarity is often brutal, insular, and turned against itself as often as it is turned outward. But it is real. It is built on the material fact that they depend on one another to make it through the day. Leftists elsewhere tend to have this from what I've heard. They know something the left here has largely forgotten or failed to rectify. that is, that solidarity is not an intellectual position but a practice of mutual dependency.

The USA's left, in its current configuration, has become disproportionately invested in academic spheres. I am not saying abandon them. But we must recognize that the United States is not Greece, where the university functions as a genuine public community square. Here, the campus is increasingly a gated space, tuition‑gated, debt‑gated, class‑gated. Real working‑class and poor communities exist outside those gates, and it is in those spaces of social reproduction and labor that we must build. We need organizers who understand that comradery is not a metaphor; it is a material practice of shared risk, shared space, and shared life. The unions that have given their workers the most power and pay understand this. The gangs and crews that hold down corners understand this in their own way. The American left, has lost touch with this. This is what made the panthers so dedicated and continuously involved.

>>2749663
>This, by the way, is not an anarchist tactic. It is a guerrilla warfare tactic. Guerrilla warfare has always included rioting and rowdy demonstrations as part of its repertoire as well.
That makes sense. In this specific case (not to generalize it), I don't think it made sense though, because it was just an anarchist group acting completely on its own. It's a different situation in Northern Ireland where you could be directly embedded in a whole community in a state of unrest.

>>2749720
>I would almost certainly guess you are … in the South
That's a bingo. But yeah I want to stress that it's a specific local condition (or pathology).

>>2749929

I guessed easily, because the dynamic you describe is a recurring pattern in the American militant left in regions with smaller cities, more sprawl and wide open space. The transplantation of tactics honed in tightly condensed urban terrains where populations already exist in sustained, often violent antagonism with state security into landscapes that lack those material preconditions. This is just a failure to read the concrete conditions of struggle. When organizers attempt to import methods developed in Belfast, Athens, Oakland, Seattle, Philadelphia, LA, Boston, or the barrios of Latin America without first assessing whether the local geography, density, and social composition support them, the result is not militancy but theater, with a script that makes you cringe.

That said, the United States is not uniformly suburban sprawl. There are cities, some in the Rust Belt, some in the former industrial Northeast which is modeled after European cities, some in the colonias of the Southwest. These are usually places whose physically visible racial and class divisions rival those of Belfast at its peak. They contain condensed neighborhoods where youth, adults, and entire communities exist in explicit, generational opposition to policing, alongside equally entrenched enclaves of support for the carceral state. In such places, the conditions for sustained confrontational politics exist; density, historical memory of state violence, a recent history of resistance, and existing networks of mutual aid, and a population that already understands the state as adversary. In these cities, the tactics developed elsewhere, mobility, evasion, territorial defense of blocks, become not imported affectations but viable responses to a real terrain of struggle. The question is not whether such tactics can work in the United States, but whether the left has the patience to identify where they can, and the discipline to realize where they do not.


Arizona is for some reason very different. I remember seeing anarchists open carrying in like 2015 there. Now we see scenes like this out of tuscon -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXyLC4ZD2kU

>>2743615
For one part, this
>>2742803
For the other part, they also did a little „research“ about the psychology of Marxists and Anarchists since then. Marxists tend to be in their authoritarian left spectre, especially MLs, meanwhile Anarchists are the deepest in the antiauthoritarian left spectre possible.
According to whatever „science“ there is behind it, authoritarians are about 10 times less likely to be active in some way than antiauthoritarians. So if we assume that Anarchists are 10 times more violent against the capitalist state, they probably did a little math and thought 1000 Anarchists can do as much damage as 100.000 MLs.

>>2750637

can you find the source on this?? In my time in CPUSA, any time a Marxist wanted to do anything communist or against capitalism, they called it Anarchism. They even called critiques of the police Anarchism. They were very militant about being anti-militancy within anti-capitalist perspectives.