This movie was fucking awesome. I have seen a lot of PTA, but also Battle of Algiers and all of the New Left movies from various countries and their respective movements, and the film lives up to those broadly speaking.
I don't know why so many communists seem to hate this movie. It seems it's the same people who engage in endless critique instead of action.
Like really. I watched it with my normie lib family on two separate occasions, and they all agreed that it was 1. a great screenplay 2. that people should be doing that shit irl
Bourgeois psyop slop recuperating and mixing retarded adventurists like the weather underground and serious revolutionaries such as the black panthers.
>I don't know why so many communists seem to hate this movie
>I watched it with my normie lib family on two separate occasions, and they all agreed
You answered your own question friendo. But I haven't watched the movie tho so idk
>>2743023Do you mean to say that many western 'communists' are more concerned with aesthetics and ironically want the movement to remain in obscurity so they can feel special?
>>2743021Okay, well what about the times when black panthers like Jonathan Jackson went on the offense, or when the weather underground and BLA broke Assata Shakur out of prison? It sounds like you are the one who is ignorant to the history of these things.
>>2743065No I mean that aestheticized hollywood activismslop may appeal to liberal, but communists don't care for it, because they are not liberals.
Might still be a decent movie tho, I wouldn't know
>>2743014I hated this movie. I hate you little 'PTA' fanboy redditoid goyslop loving race-fetishists.
Become an hero.
>>2743082is the globalist idpol in the room with you right now?
>>2743074Yeah, it is unrealistic, which kinda deviates from Algiers in that that film was procedural and based in the legacy of the FLN, but a film doesn't have to be realistic to be good.
>>2743093rent free. I never said it was truly great film or anything, just fun to watch and possibly radicalizes libs.
>>2743096>which kinda deviates from Algiers in that that film was procedural and based in the legacy of the FLNAlgiers was the opposite of this. Although the FLN initially used some of the tactics shown in the movie, they quickly abandoned them because those methods kept leading to members being caught, arrested, and interrogated, resulting in even more arrests. Instead the FLN succeeded through a slower war of attrition, drawing their enemy into fruitless pursuits in the desert or across neighboring Libya and Tunisia, waiting for them to turn back, and then shooting back, whether targeting soldiers or vehicles, before retreating and repeating the process all over again.
>>2743177Oh, thank you I didn't know that. Regardless, it was at least more realistic than the PTA in terms of organizational capacity of the FLN at the time versus the Rebellion in the movie compared to the current and historical state of the western left.
PTA hasn't done anything really good since he stopped doing drugs.
>>2743183Though different in presentation the Battle of Algiers and OBAA share the same fundamental view of conflict, a Western university student or activist’s idea of war, where being revolutionary enough or having the right principles means you can defeat any Army. In reality the men who win wars are usually far removed from that ideal. In the Algerian War, for example, many of the winning leaders of the FLN were Francophile Army officers who ironically did more to Francify Algeria than the French themselves.
>>2743014i really liked the message of the movie that even simple things like raising your kids to be good persons can be revolutionary acts, and also that sometimes the bravest and most meaningful acts can also be very small, like for example the mexican kids warning everyone that the radioman was kidnapped, the nurses that got bob into a hospital after being arrested and allowing him to escape, etc…
Even if you dont agree with the political stuff, its a very well filmed and acted movie.
>>2743352agreed, those were my favorite parts
>>2743352>>2743494Uighur that's just liberalism
I disliked the movie so much I walked out at around half of it. I would have left sooner if I hadn’t told myself to give it a chance.
>>2744748the Chinese equivalent of French 75 is the Chinese new left
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_New_LeftWhen I saw the opening sequence where the French 75 launch mortars and storm a government facility with like 50 people, I lost all interest
Film is an inherently bourgeois propaganda medium, we hate all film here and all television, the medium is the message and the only message film and tv ever have is CONSOOOOOM
>>2744846Bo Xilai was innocent
Not much specific critique ITT, huh? I'll try to explain why I think the politics of this film are immutably liberal.
- Phony political violence. What do the anarchists do during the opening montage? Liberate a tiny border camp and threaten some anti-abortion politician? Blow up a bank or something? Radlib fantasies, random shit with no strategy or class consciousness. Then consider how much violence against the police and army our protagonists actually do? Very little! When DiCaprio is up on the hill with a rifle he doesn't manage to kill anyone. It's been a while since I watched it but I believe the anarchists in total only kill two cops+feds total, the guy in the bank heist and the guy the daughter shoots at the end. The film lets libs watching it safely experience the feeling of wielding political violence without actually using it. Does that make sense?
- The Christmas Adventerers Club frames the enemy not as the government or the capitalist class, but as a warped evil deepstate. Liberals are patriotic so they love bullshit like this! "America is a great place it just has a few heckin bad eggs. Nothing is wrong with our institutions at their core."
- This is minor but telling: the Native American tracker. He's established as a goon who frequently works for the antagonist to hunt as well as kill whoever he is paid to. He has an objection to killing the daughter, but it is when a soldier makes a few racist cracks that he decides to massacre them. This is random in a way that doesn't make him intriguing, it's random in a way that is implausible without fleshing him out and giving him a proper arc. Real life mercenaries who sell their soul to work for their oppressor don't just suddenly change their mind just because it's convenient for the plot. That the film has him do this reveals its narrow idpol ideology, that his race informs his choices more than his material interests. He wouldn't start shooting them up to enact racial justice, he would keep head down and collect his paycheck!
I booed this movie at the theater and lol at the wasps being the baddies. Ok Hollywood - oy vey!
>>2746212>Liberate a tiny border camp and threaten some anti-abortion politician? The thing is, the SLA and the Weather Underground actually did try things like this, and they failed almost immediately. The WU attempted to bomb a non-commissioned officers dance hall but ended up blowing themselves up instead. The SLA, meanwhile, couldn’t reach any truly important RW political figures, so they targeted a relatively minor black school superintendent, accusing him of being an ‘Uncle Tom’ They carried out the shooting sloppily and it ended up turning much of the black community against them. In that context this film comes across as an American leftist power fantasy, even down to the Bill Ayers inspired character being played by Leonardo DiCaprio, and the group being portrayed as very diverse and seemingly lower-class. In reality, that wasn’t the case with the Weather Underground or the SLA, they were overwhelmingly made up of relatively wealthy young adults
>>2746261There's nothing inherently wrong with having a leftist power fantasy. In fact I think we should work on publishing more leftist power fantasies
>>2746279guerilla movements historically have a great track record against imperialist armies but okay sure
anyways it doesn't have to be realistic, it just needs to show people that it's possible. even if a bunch of people do it wrong someone will get it right if enough of them try
>>2746348a guerilla army only works if it has broad local support, otherwise it's just gonna get eviscerated (see the indian army against the naxals for example)
>>2746352Well that's why you gotta set up mutual aid networks and community defense patrols with it, win the trust of the community by filling in the gaps where welfare fails as we're seeing right now
>>2746365the thing is when you say these things need to be set up you think it at it's full development development and not the easily disrupted, not popular and strained on resources that are the common thanks to effective liberal politics taking most of the time, money and critical thinking of the people.
Americans don’t know nor do they trust their neighbors, why the fuck would they trust you?
>>2746279Meh, most ICE feds seem to be untrained thugs. Resisting a surprise attack from a heavily armed trained group is a bit more difficult than terrorizing unarmed civilians and kidnapping kids. The insurgents would get fucked down the line once the whole intelligence apparatus falls on them though.
>>2746384Call me naive if you wish, but kindness actually does go a long way with this shit, especially among the impoverished. If people see you going out of your way for the sake of others they will take notice. Not all of them, not the majority of them, maybe not more than 10% even, but enough will take notice. And as history has proven you dont need a whole lot of people to spark a revolution.
>>2746401We live in a post revolutionary era, all you’re doing is the state’s job for them, you’re a neoliberal subcontractor but for free
Belongs in /hobby/
>>2746416>post revolutionary eranot a real thing
>>2746512Name one revolution since 1975, you can’t, they’ve all been CIA color revolutions
>>2746531The CHAZ uprising.
>>2746531The Bolivarian revolution?
>>2746531Saur revolution? The Gwangju Uprising? The 8888 uprising? The Zapatistas? Nepalese civil war? And those are just five examples
>>2746348How many times do I have to explain this. There’s a fundamental difference between in starting a revolution in a post-colonial nation where the army functions more like an extension of a police force and the people are treated almost like subjects and a modern, developed country. Cuba is the only example of a guerrilla movement successfully defeating an established state without outside help. That same method failed miserably in the Congo(where the people lacked the cultural inclination to fight) and in Bolivia(where land reform had already taken place, making the peasants more content) There was simply nothing that Che and his group could offer them.
>>2746389You’re half right. These guys usually get 2–3 weeks of actual training and they have a mandatory firearms course twice a month. Even that still puts them far above most Western radicals, by a lot.
>>2746562All CIA funded and controlled
>>2746549Bernie sanders bullshit
>>2746571also another problem with the guerilla warfare method in the USA is that it depends on the idea that the USA not only would be unlikely to prevent such a movement, but is simply too undermanned to do so, the united states as a country is more connected than it's ever been, from seattle to caribou, the US government and its departments can know an event has happened in a matter of minutes, a guerilla war is simply just not gonna happen unless you're running operations deep inside alaska, otherwise it's gonna be trivially easy to destroy such a movement within weeks
>>2746591Your opening action needs to be taking over a nuclear missile silo, that way you have instant MAD and the government by the balls
>>2746594that would require more like a professional army with elements of a spec. ops team
>>2746601Not really, just cut the fence, most of that shit is on floppy disks anyway
>>2746603>waaah the government knows where I amJust mine the road and blow it up as they approach
>>2746606not the armed security, constant monitoring, and large amount of defences?
>>2746607that's more likely to kill random civilians than it is to kill government agents, also they can just come in from a helicopter or drone strike you
>>2746571>There’s a fundamental difference between in starting a revolution in a post-colonial nation where the army functions more like an extension of a police force and the people are treated almost like subjects and a modern, developed country.I think some other things are the state being ruled by some clique which doesn't transfer power ever. The U.S. is ruled by capital but there are two parties which take turns running it, which takes off a lot of steam so the right-wing gun crazies work off surplus energy by going to Trump rallies rather than doing something more destructive with their spare time.
Another factor is a clique running the government failing as the insurgency spreads and having to rely on foreign support to stay in power, which further delegitimizes the state and allows the insurgents to portray themselves as a patriotic force for unity against the foreigners (even if they're also being armed or funded from the outside to some extent). This is what happened to the U.S. in Vietnam, and Russia and Iran in Syria, which is a post-colonial state that structurally inherited the colonial pattern.
>>2746612You can buy drones at walmart and fly them at helicopters, also you shouldn’t expect to live anyway
>>2746612You give the middle finger to the cameras and the men watching will faint because they’re pussies
>>2746619if they can just wipe you out without even sending one guy in there, then there's zero purpose
>>2746623Having a cool suicide is the point
>>2746603Even in the most ideal scenario of a US collapse, it’s more or less impossible for any communist group to take power in whatever regions they’re in. The possible exception might be the APC(love them or hate them, they have strong standing in their community and even a few police or military personnel in their ranks). More broadly, though, it would likely be the Army, Police, or other federal law enforcement taking the reins, or perhaps highly pragmatic, cartel-like groups.
>>2746633
and all of them would still fail
>>2746655
Why tho?
>>2746618It varies by country, there’s a big difference between a third-world army like Nigeria’s and one like Ba’athist Iraq’s. the former doesn't exist(it's an extended police force), but Iraq still had the governmental capacity to pose a real regional impact. both Ba'athist Iraq and Syria shared the same problem, power was often handed out to personal relatives or friends of the leader, regardless of merit. In Syria for e.g around 80% of the senior officer corps came from the same village as the Assad family, Iraq had a similar pattern. Combined with corruption, this led to weak military institutions.
The only real solutions for such states are either to completely dismantle their armies and rebuild from scratch. which is difficult, costly and risks angering powerful elites or to work within the existing system by establishing more localized, state-sponsored militias that can cooperate with each other.
>>2743014Revolution in the US would happen when its society rots enough, but it would not be from a guerilla uprising (at least, not solely from it). More likely, it would be something akin the lines of "Californian governor doubts the integrity of the latest presidental election and declares secession, the Republican president sends troops to quell the separatists but fails to realise that this time, troops cannot dehumanise the enemy with racism as always, and part of the military turns on the president too, but then soldiers go AWOL and start looting the offices and mansions of every goverment official in NY and DC who they heard was in Epstein files…"
>>2746634
Some frenchies, tiqqun I think, did that, the glowies went completely bonkers and paranoid over a handful of intellectuals shitposting in a zine. Untold manhours were spent investigating an imaginary anarchist underground
>>2746727No offense, but that’s an equally, if not more romanticized view. I live in a nation that is truly rotted and let me tell you, a revolution will happen when the Army is already revolting or simply doesn’t care, when things aren’t functioning properly.
>>2746727rot is not the deciding factor, it is a crisis after crisis that collapses a government, the crisis that collapsed myanmar is something that is opportune for a communist revolution, because it came after decades of crises and improper governance, the same holds true for any developed and thus "stable" nation, you would need so many that the government simply cannot maintain the support of the majority
>>2746822Or a big war the workers refuse to loose (paris commune) or want to stop (germany/russia ww1), or a general strike that immobilizes the economy (may 68). Basically you need a crisis of some degree that creates a huge rift between oppressed and oppressors AND worker organizations ready to go into the breach
>>2746831then you also need cumulative internal crises as well, may '68 and the commune failed for this reason
>>2743014if amerikkkasn like it then it must be marvel tier slop garbage so thanks for the anti-recomendation
To me, this movie was a left-wing Starship Troopers. A wish fulfillment fantasy for "lefties" that is so excessive that it comes off as a satirical movie to those who aren't biased towards the ideas the movie expresses.
I find the movie's themes very insidious. It portrays a group of revolutionaries fighting against the system, but written in such a way that in typical Democrat fashion it intentionally portrays the poor and the oppressed as non-white and generally asserts that "progress" is really about a zero-sum racial war between whites and non-whites where the non-white people are the good guys. I don't think I need to explain why does the DNC do this. By channeling real discontent towardds glorifying rigid identity categories, they can mostly get away with refusing to pursue any concrete policy that would actually help poor people. It's also a favour to their Republican friends and the entire duopoly system to ragebait white people into becoming committed supporters of capitalism and then all of this circles back towards using the Republican white masses to scare racial minorities into voting for the Democrats.
There are a few things that, at least to me, give it away that this was actually intentional, even if it hides behind satire. The only non-white person who works for the white people is the Native American. The people who live in rural constituencies where people vote Republican… From what I could gather the data confirms that their voting patterns are closer to that of white people than blacks or Latinos. The second thing is that the main character is a white self-insert character, while everyone else around him is non-white, meaning no matter how much the movie celebrates racial minorities, it's still aimed at white people, like a typical white liberal democrat.
Those who take this movie seriously are retarded. If you, for example, didn't laugh at the realization the only time an enemy of the revolutionaries was humanized was when they had to shoot the black security guard, as if you are only allowed to feel empathy towards people whose skin is above a certain melanin level.
Take a note of one thing: there is not a single person in the movie who actually works for a living. There is not a single factory worker or service industry worker. Not even an independent tradesman or an office workers at a big corporation. It's all just criminals and law enforcers, which perfectly reflects the petty-bourgeois mindset of the original Weathermen. The guy with the dojo comes the closest to being a useful part of society, but even his scenes feel like a post-modern mini-homage to East Asian martial art movies than anything that makes any attempt at representing reality. The guy also runs an NGO for Latinos, which in real life would be mostly concerned funneling voters towards the Dems instead of fending off hordes of policemen or doing anything that comes close to being that politically risky.
>>2746940I agree with this post except that Verhoeven's Starship Troopers was knowing satire based on an unsatirical novel. Starship Troopers is satire so excessive that it comes off as genuine!
>>2746352The Naxalites are doing fine, as the Maoist PPW in India is currently in the Strategic Defensive stage, in which the CPI (Maoist) wages a low-level insurgency and begins to consolidate its revolutionary base areas, which will enter the Strategic Equilibrium Stage, in which Naxalites can begin seizing control of large sections of rural India, once India and Pakistan go to war with each other as part of World War III between the U$ and China, with the final Strategic Offensive Stage being reached once World War III between the U$ and China escalates into a Global Nuclear War, including between Pakistan and India, which will allow for the final Naxalite offensive to overthrow the Reactionary Hindutva Fascist Comprador Bourgeois Capitalist Indian State, and create the Hindi SFSR, Kashmiri SSR, Punjabi SSR, Sindhi SSR, Gujarati SSR, Marathi SSR, Konkani SSR, Kannada SSR, Malayali SSR, Tamil SSR, Telugu SSR, Odia SSR, Bengali SSR, Assamese SSR, Khasi SSR, Mizo SSR, Manipuri SSR, Ao SSR, Nissi SSR, and Nepali SSR, that will all join the future Global USSR (All of the SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR are shown in the map I posted) that will place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️!
>>2743014When it comes to this film, while I have not watched it, I have to say that I agree with the general consensus that the tactics/scenarios presented in the film are very unrealistic for obvious reasons, that the plot has many holes in it, and I would add that the scene with the pregnant lady firing a machine gun is pretty cringey, now I will admit that the film may still be entertaining overall (personally the extremely unrealistic nature of it and the cringey pregnant lady firing a machine gun scene ruins it for me and makes it unlikely that I would even attempt to watch it) but it should be viewed as just a typical cheesy Hollywood action movie with Leftist aesthetics and nothing more nor less, and with the Film critique aside, it is very important to note the Dialectical Materialist reality that while Maoist PPW is currently viable in the Material Conditions of the Periphery/Semi-Periphery, as proven by the ongoing Maoist PPWs in India, the Philippines, Turkey, and Peru, Maoist PPW will not be viable in the Material Conditions of the Imperial Core until World War III breaks out and/or Bourgeois Liberal Democracy is permanently suspended, with these two events probably happening around the same time, and to further clarify what I mean by this I am talking about the viability of the Strategic Defensive Stage of Maoist PPW, as reaching both the Strategic Equilibrium and Strategic Offensive Stages of Maoist PPW in the Imperial Core will require World War III between the U$ and China to escalate into a Global Nuclear War that destroys the entire Global Capitalist-Imperialist System, thus allowing for a successful World Maoist PPW to create a Global USSR that will place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️!
>>2743560>>2744678vice signaling
>>2747022>The Naxalites are doing fineno they aren't, they once ruled like a half of an entire state and now they are confined to a few mountains
>>2747146Expansion and contraction of Revolutionary Base areas is a classic attribute of the Strategic Defensive Stage of Maoist PPW, and as long as the CPI (Maoist) wages Maoist PPW against the Reactionary Hindutva Fascist Comprador Bourgeois Capitalist Indian State, the Naxalites are doing fine, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️!
>>2747152two more years until strategic equilibrium, trust the plan.
>>2743065>Do you mean to say that many western 'communists' are more concerned with aesthetics and ironically want the movement to remain in obscurity so they can feel special?If you've been on this website for more than 5 minutes you'd know this instinctually. See: iron felix, "MTW" sakaiposters, "anti campists" that want to protect the movement from the brown hordes outside the Garden, etc
>>2747152everytime i see you post emojis, i want to smack you.
>>2746628The only real path is
>Join the Military >Go to College >Join a 3-letter agency >Run for Office >Found a Secret Society>Tribe and train >>2746352>>2746348>>2746571>>2746591the paradox of revolution is people have at least 1 job, sometimes family to take care of (a 2nd job) and sometimes elders to take care of (a 3rd job). This keeps them very busy and risk averse. Then they are told that, if they are tired of being exploited and tired, they have to risk their lives (a 4th job) to "educate" (a 5th job) "agitate" (a 6th job) "organize" (a 7th job) and militarize (a 7th job) against a state that will literally kill them and everyone they love. Most people will opt to not do that for obvious reasons. The situation has to be INCREDIBLY DESPERATE. i.e. the average person needs to be starving or getting press ganged into a war, or getting thrown in prison and tortured, and even then, it still might not manifest in revolution because people don't want a bunch of extra jobs when their 1 or 2 jobs is already the source of the vast majority of their misery. So you have to find a way around this, especially in the imperial core USA where people are on average NOT starving and nobody is getting drafted anymore. Exploitation by employer will also never ever ever ever translate into class consciousness if the workers view their employer as bad apples rather than part of a class system. They'll just keep quitting and switching jobs because subtracting 1 job (quitting) is way easier than adding another job (being a revolutionary)
>>2751567That video was from 15 years ago and the Naxalites have lost virtually all of their territory.
>>2744846> the Chinese new left>look inside>critical of the very successful strategies that bled the burger reich drymeh
>>2755427lol, sad but trvke
>>2753498That statement is irrelevant.
One BBC After Another
>>2755432
LMFAO
>>2756810Not the WU you dumbass
>>2756807having local support doesn't matter if you've been killed or forcibly separated from the people who support you
>>2756966Again, irrelevant statement to the conversation you replied to.
Read from the top and try again.
>>2755432
is this supposed to make me hate cars less?
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