What are you guys opinion on queer anarchism?
I think I am something like this.
Pic related is a place in my hometown (Curitiba - Brazil) that I would totally make as the headquarter of my movement.
I don't know the history of it but assume it was born out of either homophobic anarchists or terfy anarcha-femmes
In general it seems like most anarchisms have adopted some element of queer theory
What's the weather like in Curitiba, Brasil today anon?
Queer sexuality is inherently neoliberal and parasitic, I say this as a bi man
>>2764833Wow, an almost-heterosexual man has an opinion on queerness! Everyone, listen to him!
>>2764821
/thread
>>2764839Unlike most bi men I’ve made a man my exclusive romantic partner for nine years, it’s all an escape from patriarchy the way drugs are an escape from reality, it’s temporary and fake
seems like a redundant concept to me - the queer community is already inherently anarchist from the start, with no real hierarchy to speak of and people self-identifying and governing one another's behavior as equals in a horizontal structure. marginalized groups tend to exist at the forefront of anarchist thought because they are outsiders with no place in the traditional structure of mainstream society, particularly queer people who often don't even have support from their own families. they are effectively on their own and forced to figure everything out for themselves in terms of finding likeminded people and establishing solidarity.
>>2764843When are you planning to dump him for a woman?
>>2764847I’m not, having a kid would ruin my life
I don’t like anarchism and all of it’s messy sub ideologies (liberalism). And you rarely see communists using redundant names like “queer communism”.
>>2764843is he also bi?
Are you the kind of bi that only tops?
>>2764849Your life is already ruined until further notice
>>2764849In 5 years you will feel your life is being ruined by dating a man and you will run to get a woman to feel better about yourself
>>2764855The opposite, he’s a gay top and I’m a bi bottom, I’m attracted to women but actually penetrating during sex doesn’t feel good
>>2764859Too many sunken costs at this point
>>2764857That’s Benjamin Netanyahu’s fault, not mine
>>2764832It is warm and sunny.
>>2764833You sound like Che Guevara saying homosexuality is "burgueoisie". It is just being dumb about human sexuality and prejudicial. Socialism must not be based on such behaviors.
>>2764854Maoism, Marxism-Leninism, Trotskyism, Luxembourgism, Eurocommunism, etc.
c'mon now
>>2764871It existed before bourgeois relations but was always an upper class thing, just like romance, peasants and hunter gatherers NEEDED to have kids just to have enough labor around for their social unit.
>>2764872Most of those aren’t redundant, and the last one is more of a trend than a specific ideology
>>2764874Shut the fuck up, dumbfuck.
Why are marxists so dumb and prejudicial?
>>2764880mtf x ftm couples are cute but let’s not pretend they’re gonna be the basis of a new society
>>2764882Queer is much more than that.
Queer is an existential threat to society and will always be. Marxists can't understand queerness because they relativize oppression when it is commited by the poor.
>>2764888So is climate change, should we embrace exxon mobil as revolutionary?
>>2764888I’m gonna need you to define queerness, if it’s not sexual and gender minorities idk what you’re referring to
>>2764890Queer is fair existential threat.
>>2764892Queerness is the quality of a person, a group or anything that defies gender and sexuality normativity (cis-heteronormativity, patriarchy) etc.
>>2764897I’m not seeing anything positive here, just pure negation
>>2764900Queer is a way of being that denies hierarchical gender or sexual norms. It doesn't need to have anything "positive", it just is.
>>2764912Men sexually dominating each other wouldn’t qualify then, gay men and trans people reproduce straight norms and dynamics all the time
>>2764821
is that all it takes to make you cringe is the word "queer"? what are you, a mormon or something?
>>2764914Men having sex with mem is queer because it violates the heterosexual norm.
I get what you're talking about, but it will never be the same thing. being queer is also defying traditional views of what sexuality and gernder should be.
>>2764914The people obsessed with being queer (specifically "politically queer") unironically agree with that yes, they go into autists contest about who is the most hetero-divergent
>>2764914Does that mean that bottoms are more revolutionary than tops?
>>2764934>>2764914I am gay, and I think the most nice thing about being gay is the power of equality.
Domination in gay relationships tend to be performances.
>>2764948Tops can be queer, straight people can be queer.
Anyone can be queer, my friend.
>>2764927Was Thomas Sankara “queering” up Burkina Faso when he ordered married men to shop and cook on international women’s day?
>>2764956No, straight people cannot be queer. Queerness is more than getting a septum piercing and dying your hair.
>>2764964So ftm and mtf couples aren’t queer, lesbians that sleep with pre srs transwomen aren’t queer
>>2764960Yes, changing traditional gender roles is being queer.
But that itself is not enough.
>>2764964Straight people who are asexual or perform in ways that can be consideres "gay" or queer are queer.
what does being a faggot have to do with politics?
>>2764964Women who look like men, mem who look or act (or feel) like women.
That's all being queer.
>>2764969What are politics to you?
>>2764833>Queer sexuality is inherently neoliberal and parasiticLGBT identity politics certainly is, but not necessarily queer. The second sense of the word queer is anything that resists or disturbs established structures e.g. bisexuality destabilizes the hetero-homo binary while gay identity is accepted. There are hordes of men out there with sexual behaviors that don't fit the acceptable LGBT model, in the queer theory sense of the term, they could be seen as queer. In this sense, queer and anarchist go together well. That said, this can all lead to an obsession with sex acts instead of sane political thinking and moron academics who think they are radical because they like anal or something.
>>2764846>the queer community is already inherently anarchist from the start, with no real hierarchy to speak of and people self-identifying and governing one another's behavior as equals in a horizontal structure.Bullshit. Some people are valued more than others. The LGBT community is notoriously racist and prejudiced towards minorities and there's a pecking order where gay men sit at the top and everyone else at the bottom. Its also, like that other anon said, neoliberal and parasitic, obsessed with consumerism and supportive of shit like surrogacy for gay couples (human trafficking). It isn't squeaky clean at all.
>>2764978Surrogacy doesn’t necessarily have to be human trafficking, that’s why the Cuban family code allows for solidarity surrogacies, within the family
>>2764968>asexualWho gives a fuck. Asexuals have never been discriminated against other than the times that they were mistaken for gay.
>>2764978That's because everyone loves the joie de vivre and sassy observations that gay men add to the mix.
>>2764981You mean mannerisms they stole from Black women
>>2764981I don't like the idea of centering human condition in reproduction roles. That's where all the idea of lgbt being "degenerate" comes from.
>>2764985It’s literally why any biological organism exists you fucking idiot
>i base my politics on identitarian post modern individualism
this will never achive anything meaningful for queer
>>2764988And after they are born they can do whatever they want with their lives. We are not reproduction machines.
>>2764978>Bullshit. Some people are valued more than others. The LGBT community is notoriously racist and prejudiced towards minorities and there's a pecking order where gay men sit at the top and everyone else at the bottom. Its also, like that other anon said, neoliberal and parasitic, obsessed with consumerism and supportive of shit like surrogacy for gay couples (human trafficking). It isn't squeaky clean at all.and do you have any real non-anecdotal evidence to support these claims?
>>2764995This is why Marxist Leninists outside the crypto nazi GDR rightfully banned you and your practices
>>2764991Post modern individualism can be good if you know what to do with it.
>>2764999Why do you care about marx and lenin lmao
dead grandpas
No opinion, but I deeply despise the poster w that flag, and all the liberal/social-democrat garbage ties to it and the lgbt community in general tollerates.
>Inb4 straight
Fag, checkmate.
>>2764988>>2764999Humans have the brains to not be slaves to our to our genetics.
See
>>770571 >>2765034mendeloid nonsense. genes do not completely specify species-being
>>2765073the only reason you want to reproduce is due to multicellular instinct.
It's because we don't have true immortality like unicellulars.
The LARP is unreal.
>>2764839>>2764847>>2764859Who hurt you?
>>2764888>Queer is an existential threat to society and will always beLmfao good one, that's going into the solarpunk manifesto
>>2765856Lol, this one is just too perfect isn't it?
Reminds me of when I went to an anarchist bookstore and bought a packet of "anarchist matches", which upon closer inspection was just a regular packet like you'd buy in any store, but with an anarchist sticker pasted over it
>>2765736Nobody since I am smart and I would never date a bisexual man
>>2765868What were you expecting?
>>2765879A regular packet probably
>>2765879Nothing really and I was still disappointed
>>2764802Achei a casa adorável, me amarro nessa arquitetura eclética. Ela tem já algum histórico de ocupação militante ou tu a escolheu por causa da cor?
>>2765856I have a problem with solarpunk. The ideas are cool, but somehow the predominant aesthetic is the lamest of all these somethingpunk genres. It's like you fused cottagecore with frutiger aero corporate plastic slop and the result was then vomited up by those AIs that mimic Studio Ghibli art.
What's missing is the dust, the insects, the imperfections in the buildings through which nature crawls, and most importantly, the vestigial ruins of the old society from which their utopia emerged.
>>2765901Não sei a história dessa casa especificamente, mas ela fica numa área jovem/punk/artística da minha cidade, onde tem muitos bares "de esquerda".
>>2765901>It's like you fused cottagecore with frutiger aero corporate plastic slop and the result was then vomited up by those AIs that mimic Studio Ghibli art. It’s definitely too agrarian, and the tech doesn’t look right either.
>and most importantly, the vestigial ruins of the old society from which their utopia emergedAnd the industry. And the explanation for how such a society would deal with climate change.
>>2765919it looks like a nice place to live, but yeah, I think solarpunk is "cottagecore without the conservatism
>>2764802Sounds gay. Movements should always be inclusive with focus on united class enemy.
It's not really different from mainstream anarchism, just using anarchism to describe the issues of the queer community.
Just like how anarcha-feminism uses anarchism to describe woman-specific problems, and anarcho-syndicalism uses anarchism to describe the problems that syndicates face.
I dunno how being gay is a political ideology but it's kinda funny. Like when those lesbian separatist communes collapsed because they couldn't decide if they could raise their sons there or how they had to call in blue collar men to fix their infrastructure. Maybe someday when we grow people in artificial wombs it could be a thing. But by then we'll be sexless worker drones happy to be slaves for the upper class.
>>27648439 years to cheat on him, wow what a record
drugs are an escape from reality? reality is for those who can't handle drugs
>>2765907cabron punk bastardo e liberalismo
Medo e delírio em Las Vegas ternos elegantes e camisas floridas TOP TOP = H I IT =
I am a straight guy with a crush on a girl who identifies as “queer”, and she does not explicitly say lesbian, so I am assuming she is bisexual or has fluid sexual orientation. Is there any chance she would ever have a relationship with me?
>>2804461You want to make me say something so controversial and humorous that I get banned
For all the mirth enjoyers, I say one word, castration, make of it what you will
>>2804464She has never called herself a lesbian, and she dose not seem to emphasize being queer that much outside of some vague references to it on her social media accounts. She strikes me as either a bisexual, or someone who just embraces a vaguely “queer” identity to seem cool/different, so I don’t think she is completely opposed to relationships with men or she would be a full-blown lesbian.
>>2804480What do you mean by that, I think short-haired women are hot.
>>2804489Yer wife will think that too
>>2804490I don’t believe in patriarchal bourgeois monogamy so that’s not a problem for me, lol.
>>2804496Yer wife will believe in divorce papers
>>2804496Devotion is bourgeois, cuckoldry is proletarian, very smart
>>2804980I just want her to be my girlfriend, because I don’t recognize the patriarchal bourgeois capitalist aristocratic feudal institution of “marriage”, lol lmao.
>>2805376You should've started with that, you should've written you just want that poosay and not to procreate
okok, refer to
>>2804464 >>2805811>>2805814>>2805818>>2805819>>2805821I get that 19th century Europeans (even Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc.) were living in a patriarchal bourgeois capitalist aristocratic feudal superstructure. But that doesn’t mean that communists should seek to maintain those reactionary values in a socialist society, and all the people in those pictures would agree with me.
>>2805811Also, Engels never married his Irish girlfriend because he believed marriage was a patriarchal bourgeois capitalist aristocratic feudal institution just like I do, lol.
>>2806056Additionally, Marx cheated on his wife several times, Stalin had several marriages, including to an 18 year old girl when he was in his 40s, and Mao had a multiple wives/girlfriends, with Jiang Qing/Madame Mao being a literal prostitute/“actress”, lol. None of the greatest Communist leaders were the “trads” you think they were, and honestly that just makes them more based for rejecting bourgeois morality in my personal opinion, lmao.
>>2806057>>2806056>>2806050>all those people would agree with meMarriage is in regards to property relations, see soviet law on secular unions.
uyghas skim over the origin of the family and go "yeah the 120 days of sodom is revolutionary af, orgies are revolutionary"
>queer
Cringe
>Anarchism
Ultra cringe
>>2806113uygha you're literally a communizer, worse than anarchist since at least they dont claim to adhere to Marx
denier>modernizer
adulthood is when you realize that tenderqueer anarchists and religious mystics are both two sides of the same coin. We both are disgusted at the world as it existed in and seek a redeemed world where the wolf will live with the lamb and where nation will not lift up sword against nation. I keep thinking about this beautiful passage from Naguib Mahfouz where he described an atheist arab meeting a sufi mystic midway and i keep thinking about this passage whenever i see a queer leftie in these spaces
>>2806115Explain to the class whats wrong with communization, Timmy.
>>2806119https://inter-rev.foroactivo.com/t12145-la-ideologia-comunizadora-en-accion-ideologica-confusionismo-desbarre-y-senuelo?fbclid=IwAR1lTMZVXnWNfRAxd56E7nZOBVm9-vr9yjy3PAY7u8hHUifhxRt1DNacyqc#103773 Gilles Dauvé says that it is necessary thing is the "creation of new social relations in which any form of economy as such disappears…"(Note on Pannekoek and Bordiga).
For this Dauvé has to make a definition of economy that is not "the separation of productive time and space from the rest of life". We see it in the following quote I provide from Dauvé, from his text "In this world, but not of this world".
The economy (from the Greek οίκος oikos "house" νoμή nomḗ "distribution, distribution, administration") is a set of activities and relations concerning the production and distribution of goods and services .Each mode of production frames this general necessity which no society can do without, in certain relations. Obviously the relations of the capitalist mode of production and distribution are different and antagonistic to the associated communist mode of production and distribution, and therefore the labour and non-labour activities show clear and profound differences. The necessary labour activities are the collective material basis for the non-labour time, the time free from the necessary work, to be as broad, joyful and full as possible, enhancing the social characteristics and those of the individual members.
Once capitalism has been eradicated and overcome, in communism there is only use value, and the division of labour, so characteristic of class societies, has also been eradicated. (rural-urban, manual-intellectual, and with respect to the sexual and domestic forms that manifest themselves in capitalism) It is therefore possible that work is not torture because of the limited time devoted to it, because of the human nature of its process, and because it is a source of learning and empowerment of knowledge and human vitality, and ALL ON THE BASIS THAT THE PRODUCING COMMUNITY OWNS AND CONTROLS BOTH THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION AND DISTRIBUTION AND THE PRODUCT OF ITS LABOUR, KNOWING THE TIME OF WORK AND THE RESOURCES NECESSARY FOR IT. .and what this implies (method of accounting, collective supervision, planning of resources and needs, of training and technical organisation to achieve it…).
Hence Marx spoke of labour, the necessary labour activity, no longer as a degrading and one-sided torture of the workers, but as a source of social enjoyment, a fundamental need of the socialised human being in communism.
The communization ideology arbitrarily and biasedly rejects the necessity of work, of the economy, of the management of all social activities, and what does it propose? We read Dauvé:
"Any economic definition of communism remains within the realm of economics, that is, of the separation of productive time and space from the rest of life. Communism is not based on the satisfaction of needs as they exist now or even as we might imagine them in the future. It is a world in which people establish relationships and engage in acts that allow them to feed, care for, house and teach… themselves. Communism is not a social organisation. It is an activity. It is a human community.
(In this world, but not of this world).
Earlier he had spoken of "creation of new social relations", which is logical and right… But now he says that "it is not a social organisation", and just before that he says that "it is a world in which people establish relationships and engage in acts that enable them to feed, care for, house and teach… themselves, But can there be social relations without social organisation, can human beings set out to do all that is necessary to live humanly and to reproduce human life together but only thinking of themselves and not of others, can there be community without community organisation and without social relations being established within it?
Dauvé says that communism is not a social organisation, but an activity "… So it is a disorganised, unorganised activity ? Ahem, and he ends up admitting that it is a "human community", also disorganised? Dauvé and his ilk are trying to take advantage of petty-bourgeois individualism…that is to say that others produce and take care of the work…the sophistry he uses serves to make communism appealing to those who do not want to work and only want to enjoy life and at most do some activities with others, but each one on his own, without organising…without acquiring agreements of collective cooperation and responsibilities for other elements of the classless community.
But of course to say this so loudly is to show oneself as a profiteering, petty-bourgeois lumpen-whatever-they-are….
If "people establish relations and engage in acts that enable them to feed, care for, house and teach each other", it is necessary to have common agreements, common organisation, common experimentation and management, common verification and accounting, common responsibility for each other - …. abc !!! .
But in the communication they come to even more important mistakes…
And so on :
Roland Simon , of Théorie Communiste ,has theorised:
"In communism there are no longer social relations, but relations established between singular individuals and, therefore, there is no more work".
(Karl Marx and the end of classical German philosophy).
http://dndf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Karl-Marx-y-el-fin-de-la-filosof%C3%ADa-cl%C3%A1sica-alemana.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1D4AHtoyGvozOSHyxwesk1AvmssU-7EWCTGgi90Rk57twIqKm3pzPH4FYIn other words, everyone is free to do as he or she pleases without necessarily contributing to the collective, without having social and labour responsibilities, taking from here and there as it comes or as they can take from what others do, with your colleagues enjoying themselves and freaking out… Does this sound familiar? That is why you have to vehemently and mystifyingly reject what the GIC and Marx put forward about social labour time, its calculation and its revolutionary collective use. …. That is why you have to twist and distort everything, taking us to worlds where sophist rhetoric and the cognitive deception of magicians reigns.
That is why their supporters have to be told that there is no transition period, that in an immediate act of cancellation, capitalist relations, structures and forces will be done away with, and that this is possible because of the degree of development that capitalism itself and its automated processes have reached… blablabla.
>>2806116>adulthood is when you realize that tenderqueer anarchists and religious mystics are both two sides of the same coin.Yes both are garbage
Ah yes gazillion rendition of anarchism + liberal ideology. There is only social anarchism everything else is just a subcategory as socialism is the logical conclusion of libertarianism and the only way it can become truly actualized.
Lets hope for a brighter day where we kill everyone who makes sexuality their entire identity, and everyone who is religious, spiritual and not materialist.
>>2806119>ChatGPT, read this .pdf and refute it from a communization perspectiveUr done niiddo5
>>2806129>niiddo5Wtf
Kiddo*
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