How do you as Marxists reconcile your immense loss when you consider that next to one even thinks about class when it comes to explaining societal problems? At best they consider how much money people make, which isn’t a Marxian conception of class. So, if the very core of your theory is not even considered, how will socialism be successful? You talk about “the right conditions” but will “the right conditions” just magically endow people with the thinking that owners of the means of production are the problem? Why was the idea not even taken seriously for so long then? It seems like when shit hits the fan people will be more inclined to believe it’s only billionaires who are the problem, or Jews, or non-whites, or communists, ironically enough.
Nice try, but everytime I go online in normie spaces random people are always angry at the rich and corrupt
>>2767271>angry at the rich and corruptI didn’t read “bourgeoisie” or “owners of the means of production” in that statement. Did you?
>>2767276
>they want polite and ethical millionaires and socialdemocract
The blackpill boss of the blackpill class.
Trvke.
>>2767280No, the revolution will eventually win. It's not lost
Because history only ever moves in one direction
>>2767283Not in present westlandia
>>2767290The third world will form a united red army and invade NATO like the Soviet Union smashed Nazi Europe
>>2767271>Le corrupt Lmao
>>2767267>reconcileWith what?
>>2767290Yeah, that's what I said. The west will turn fascist and the third world will have its revolutions and eventually the west will be red too
>>2767301You have to believe nuclear weapons don’t exist or are highly exaggerated for this to be true
>>2767303The third world will conquer the West with BBC. If the West uses nukes because of that you are just admitting that BBC is too powerful to compete against.
>>2767279There are no rich people who aren't owners of the MoP or that are unable to organize the productive forces to exploit workers
>>2767295Read the OP again retard
>How do Marxists reconcile your immense loss when you consider that next to one even thinks about class when it comes to explaining societal problems?We don't need to reconcile anything because the normie is already classpilled, sure, they aren't well versed on communist theory, but they don't need to be, that's the job of the communist party
>>2767276>(((rich)))>(((corrupt)))Reported for being a stupid poltard
>>2767311Also
>They will just be fascistic class collaborationists (they want polite and ethical millionaires and socialdemocract)You are just projecting, you spam the whole board with class collaborationist cuck propaganda about how the development of the national bourgeoisie in the third world is actually a good thing for communism.
You have serious mental issues, I think you should seriously begin to consider suicide
>>2767291>>2767303Especially with drones and AI you really will have to put in a lot of sacrifice to defeat the west.
>>2767311>Thinking false conscious nonsense like worrying about "corruption" is being classpilled Lmfao what a stupid fucking retard
>>2767314Gold plated nonsense that can be defeated by cheaper drones, cheaper missiles, and if it comes down to it, human waves
>>2767318Again, retard, the proletariat doesn't need to be well versed on communist theory, they experience capitalist exploitation every day. You lost /pol/, we marxists don't have to reconcile and "inmense loss", because we know that the party is necessary to bridge the gap between scientific socialism and vulgar distrust to the rich
>>2767322Being literally doused in false consciousness leads to reactionary thought you dumb idiot, it's the opposite of being class pilled. How many color revolutions happened under the banner of anti corruption? Answer: all of them.
It means nothing, you might as well be impressed by german nazis in the 30s talking about "the elites" in der sturmer as being an indication of their amazing class consciousness
Kys epsteinite retard
>>2767311>There are no rich people who aren't owners of the MoPJ. K. Rowling
>Reported for being a stupid poltardFucking mononeuronal autistic I was saying with irony that they will become antisemites rather than communists. I hate the jewish and gentile bourgeois equaly
>>2767312AH;DC (Ad Hominem; Don't Care)
>>2767303That's why multipolarity is needed first
>>2767311>There are no rich people who aren't owners of the MoPPlastic surgeons, politicians, famous actors/artists, senior engineers, investment bankers, etc.
And the vast majority of those who own the means of production are poor, because there are more of the petit bourgeoisie than successful big companies.
>>2767326>Calls me an "epstenite" when Epstein could be used to demonstrate his own argument, making him fall victim of the very ideology he is criticizingYou really are beyond stupid, as I said before, you need to start considering ending your life, it isn't valuable at all and I guarantee you will not accomplish anything wothy of note
As you can tell by your own experiencie, only the most stupid of the proles would fall for reactionarism.
>How many color revolutions happened under the banner of anti corruption? You cannot have a color revolution without popular discontent, so the desire to change the present state of things is there, the failure of color revolutions can be attributed to the failures of the communists parties to organize the workers, and it is very ironic that these color revolutions usually happen in the third world, which according to you, has the revolutionary potential. Are you seriously stupid enough to not being able to see the massive flaws in your line of thought?
>>2767312I said AD;DC but wathever
>development of the national bourgeoisie in the third world is actually a good thing for communism.A weaker and fragmented bourgeoisie is better than a class-conscious imperialist one. Revolution won't happen spontaniously and simultinously across the world in a giant orgasm as you think it will
>>2767329>J. K. RowlingIP rights, which under capitalism, are part of the productive forces, she profits from every book made by workers
>that they will become antisemites And yet there hasn't been a repeat of anti-semitic fascism since WW2, so all you are doing is proving that reactionary retards have no revolutionary potential. It's irrelevant they become anti-semitic because when the time comes, they will get steamrolled by communists
>>2767338>as I said before, you need to start considering ending your lifeKek, you are not responding to the same guy (really consistent with your low mental capabilities). I would never say "epsteinite"
>>2767342>there hasn't been a repeat of anti-semitic fascism since WW2Until now, it's literally what is forming right now (idk if they will really take power tho or we will have imperialist conservacucks forever)
>>2767338Calling people epsteinites is far more class conscious than being concerned with abstract "corruption". Which is why you get so upset by it, because you are one
>Le color revolution is actually good and not reactionary Typical epsteinite reaction
>>2767344>epsteneiteWhy don't you call him CIA-agent or whathever? Epstein was nothing exceptional
>>2767338>the failures of the communists parties to organize the workersmaterial explanation for why this keeps happening?
>>2767346Potayto Potahto. But epsteinite is the cutting edge right now
>>2767343>Until now, it's literally what is forming right nowits a nothingburger
>>2767351For the moment, but in 5-10 years they will be very important in the decaying empire
flooood >>2767355I doubt it, but I guess only time will tell
>>2767339>>2767330>Plastic surgeons, politicians, famous actors/artists, senior engineers, investment bankers, etc.Plastic surgeons, as well as other medical experts, benefited from being part of a wealthy family most of the time, and when they become wealthy they buy property and become bourgeois, I know this for a fact, as I am sitting right now on my gf's appartment bed, who she rents it from her aunt, who is a rich surgeon.
>PoliticansLmao at you believing politicians aren't wealthy in property or industry before reaching top positions
>Actors/artistsBenefit from IP laws
>EngineersNo engineer is wealthy after finishing school, the ones that are, are because of family privilege, so they benefit from a class position from the start
>Investment bankerSame as above
>A weaker and fragmented bourgeoisie is better than a class-conscious imperialist one.Are you inplying the bourgeoisie won't leave their differences behind, join forces and engage in imperialism? Have you ever opened a history book?
>Revolution won't happen spontaniously and simultinously across the world in a giant orgasm as you think it willNo, but the conditions that will allow for a global revolution to take place globally, as global capitalism will be exhausted due to it's internal contradictions
>>2767335Most of these areexplained by the obes above, the only ones who are not are
>Lottery>CryptoAnd it's very very stupid to believe a few people that won a bet will somehow disprove marxism, plus they end up buying property or industry and they become part of the bourgeoisie
>>2767359Kill yourself I fucking hate you
>>2767344>Calling people epsteinites is far more class conscious than being concerned with abstract "corruption". No it isn't you fucking imbecile, using the term "Epsteinite" shows that you are angry just against the imperial bourgeoisie, meanwhile, "corruption" is a global phenomena, the people that claim that the problem with society is Jeffrey Epstein are retards like you who flirt with the idea of class collaborating with the third world bourgeoisie to have "multipoltarity" and other classcuck drivel, as you feel the necessity to single out the western imperial proletariat
Which is why you get so upset by it, because you are one
Meanwhile, the proles that use the term "Corruption" understand that it is not merely and individual phenomenon, but rather a systemic one, sure, it's still not calling out the class issue of society, but it is by far more systemic than "le hekin American jew Epstein"
Again, you fail to see and understand why this is the case, because you are terminally stupid, and as I said before, you should seriously consider suicide as I do not think you have the intelligencw to overcome this ideological catastrophe
>Le color revolution is actually good and not reactionary Typical epsteinite reaction
Why am I not surprised you have no reading comprehension? Is never said color revolutions were not reactionary. Again, only solution is sudoku
>>2767364Has your parasocial relationship advanced so mich you have decided to use the leftcom flag now?
>>2767347Capitalism has not proletarized enough people in the third world, despite what MTW seem to believe.
>to single out the western imperial proletariat
western imperial bourgeoisie*
By the way retard, when are you going to adress the point I made here
>>2767338>and it is very ironic that these color revolutions usually happen in the third world, which according to you, has the revolutionary potential.Hurry up retard, defend your MTW delusions
>>2767370Yes. Do you have any problem? Recently you misidentified me with the "epsteinite" guy so i guess this will make it easier for you to identify me
>>2767369>Meanwhile, the proles that use the term "Corruption" understand that it is not merely and individual phenomenon, but rather a systemic one, sure, it's still not calling out the class issue of society, but it is by far more systemic than "le hekin American jew Epstein"Retarded racist leftcom truth nuke (except caring about (((corruption))))
>>2767371So why shouldn't the national bourgeoisue develop the productive forces? How is there going to be a communist revolution without a proletariat?
>>2767379>So why shouldn't the national bourgeoisue develop the productive forces? How is there going to be a communist revolution without a proletariat?Why should the communist support the desire for the bourgeoisie to exploit them? A car factory produces cars and the badge at the front is irrelevant, I don't care if it's a Ford™ or a hekin national indigenous EV made especifically for the Mexican people™
(I do care because muh veeayte but that's irrelevant to the conversation)
The global crisis of capital will happen if the factory is owned by a national bour or by a foreign bourg.
>>2767267>How do you reconcile labor aristocrat shenanigans?Easily. You are 20% of the world population yet 100% of the parasites upon it.
>>2767388Dating and marrying into the bourgeoisie while attacking China for not being socialist enough and also doing nothing to stop your homeland from bombing and couping other countries is The Real Movement. I understand now. I too will marry into a wealthy family and start attacking Xi for not abolishing commodity production and also invest into American weapon manufacturing stocks with my bourgeois wife's money since clearly this is the most Leftist life path forward.
>>2767369>No it isn'tYes it is, your angry spergout is proof enough of that
>Meanwhile, the proles that use the term "Corruption" understand that it is not merely and individual phenomenon, but rather a systemic one, Lmfao insane mega cope. You're really losing it now.
>Is never said color revolutions were not reactionaryYou used the use of the term corruption as an indication of class consciousness. Yet, the only ones using such terms are reactionary color revolutionoids
>>2767391I will keep banging my glans on her cervix with my big Leftkkkom cock while she says "I love you daddy" and there is N O T H I N G you can do to stop me.
>>2767359>I am sitting right now on my gf's appartment bedWhile you watch me fuck her
>>2767381>Why should the communist support the desire for the bourgeoisie to exploit them?support means material support and because it advances multipolarity
>>2767378What is there to address? Why would I want CIA-backed colour revolutions to succeed/make the empire more powerful? Yeah they are caused by popular discontent + false consciousness manipulated by the ameriKKKan porkies. If the $nakeSS of AmeriKKK were less powerful (multipolarity is key for this) the CIA would not be able to manipulate the other countries proletariat (since it is the national bourgeoisie's self interest to defend their property against the imperial bourgeoisie) and the communists would succeed
>>2767391Bourgeois class consciousness is so beautiful to see
>>2767395>Yes it isNope
>AngerStop projecting
>Lmfao insane mega cope.Not an argument, Epstein is an individual who was part of the ruling class of US and Israel, Corruption is a phenomena in which the ruling class uses power and money to brake bourgeois law, if you believe that the first term, Epstein, is a more general one, as a general term will define a class society and it's systemic issues, luke corruption. You are undoubtedly a fucking retard, you are literally wrong on a grammatical level
The only solution, as I said, is suicide, a mind that can't even understand and utilize language will never achieve anything worthy of note.
>You used the use of the term corruption as an indication of class consciousness. And you used the term Epsteinite, and I already explained why "corruption" is a better one at explaining the global capitalist system
Besides,.what was Epstein crime if not corruption? He was able to enslave kids because of blackmail, and blackmail is literally corruption
>Yet, the only ones using such terms are reactionary color revolutionoidsAnd the only ones engaging in color revolutions are third world proles, explain this phenomena, retard jewish negro.
>>2767401>you are literally wrong on a grammatical levelNot everyone is an EML/EFL/ENL craKKKer like you. ESL is proletarian and revolutionary (nigerian/etc EFL is proletarian and revolutionary too)
>>2767397>While you watch me fuck herShe is an evangelical christian and literally hates anything that isn't remotely close to monogamy.
>support means material support and because it advances multipolarityNice circular logic, retard, you have yet to explain how Multipoltarity advances communism
>Why would I want CIA-backed colour revolutions to succeed/make the empire more powerful?Because you are a liberal lolz
> Yeah they are caused by popular discontent + false consciousness manipulated by the ameriKKKan porkies.And these only happen in the third world, yet the third world holds the revolutionary potential?
>If the $nakeSS of AmeriKKK were less powerful (multipolarity is key for this) the CIA would not be able to manipulate the other countries proletariat (since it is the national bourgeoisie's self interest to defend their property against the imperial bourgeoisie)Their own national intelligence agencies would sabotage proletariat movements, retard. This fucking classcuck thinks the national bourgeois cares about the national proletariat kekekk!
>and the communists would succeedSource?
>>2767405Im Mexican you fucking inbred retard, fucking retarded jewish negro.
>>2767401>NopeYup
>Stop projectingNever was
>Not an argument, Epstein is an individual who was part of the ruling class of US and Israel, Corruption is a phenomena in which the ruling class uses power and money to brake bourgeois lawCorruption is understood by the masses as a personal failing and fault, whereby corrupt individuals can simply be removed from power and that will fix the system. At most some checks and balances will be implemented. Epstein is the embodiment of the whole of the bourgeoisie as a class, as a pedofilic murderer which can only be stopped by destroying the class relations that bring him about in their entirety
>And you used the term Epsteinite, and I already explained why "corruption" is a better one at explaining the global capitalist systemEpsteinite is a far better term, it makes you angry because it describes you perfectly. Corruption is useless and exclusively used by epsteinites such as yourself
>And the only ones engaging in color revolutions are third world proles, explain this phenomena, The imperialism of the Epstein Empire obviously
>>2767406>you have yet to explain how Multipoltarity advances communismAlready did
>>2767339>And these only happen in the third worldWhy would the first world make a colour revolution against itself? What the fuck does a colour revolution even mean in the empire. They have tried to do them in Russia, Belarus and China tho. But these countries aren't weak and they don't succeed
>Their own national intelligence agencies would sabotage proletariat movements, retard.With less success
>This fucking classcuck thinks the national bourgeois cares about the national proletariat kekekk!I don't
>Im MexicanYeah two craKKKers can go and breed outside AmeriKKKa. What a surpise!
braindead website
>>2767407>YupWishful thinking
>Never wasDelusional
>Corruption is understood by the masses as a personal failing and faultLol, you are retarded.
The difference is that they understand there is something about the system that can lead to everyone becoming corrupt, you are just screeching about "Le hekin American jew" like a fucking moron
>Epsteinite is a far better termIt's hilarious
>It makes you angryI use it all the time, not just here because leftypol is serious business
>can only be stopped by destroying the class relations that bring him about in their entirety Kek what a stretch, first of all, the VAST majority of normies think Epstein is an individual problem, as it's his own fault not a systemic one, second are you saying the entire normiesphere that is upset at Epstein is therefore aware of class relations then? Good job proving my point against OP right then.
See what you just did is arguee in my favour, proving the point I made here
>>2767271 correct
I hope you did this consciously, otherwise it'd be yet another example of how terminally stupid you are. Why even arguee against me if you are going to end defending my point?
Truly the only solution is suicide, your life is worthless because your mind is defficient
>>2767421Sorry. I'm trying my best
>>2767414>Already didAlready debionked you jewish negro, what is the EU? EUROPE WAS MULTIPOLAR FOR ALL OF IT'S EXISTANCE RETARD
>Why would the first world make a colour revolution against itself? You mean something like a color revolution against Trump to impose Biden, to stop the orange retard from destroying the US hegemony because Trump is an easily persuaded retard that will alienate US allies? Why do you refuse to read and understand history?
>With less successFucking delusional, and if they need to, they will always ask for help from imperial powers, see Chile, Mexico, Iran, Nigeria, etc etc.
This fucking imbecile not only refuses to read history, but even dares to make his own alternative universe where third world social democraciea don't persecute communists.
Holy shit uyghur, read a fucking book
>Yeah two craKKKers can go and breed outside AmeriKKKa. What a surpise!Unlike, who will never breed
>>2767437I would ask you to stop spouting bourgeois propaganda (psychology) but you are a classcuck (your gf) so it would be impossible for you
>>2767440Ya no sueltas insultos raciales?
>>2767435>Unlike, who will never breedI will not breed for the bourgeoisie
>they will always ask for help from imperial powers, see Chile, Mexico, Iran, Nigeria, etc.Those were/are vassals
>You mean something like a color revolution against Trump to impose Biden, to stop the orange retard from destroying the US hegemony because Trump is an easily persuaded retard that will alienate US allies? This will not happen what world do you live in
>>2767437>One-sided relationship with a public figurebro thinks he is a public figure :skull:³
>>2767321>human wavesWith drones, human waves no longer have that effect
Impress me and I will support you.
>>2767443That just makes your obsession with me even more pathetic
>I would ask you to stop spouting bourgeois propaganda (psychology)This explains your mental illness
>but you are a classcuck (your gf) so it would be impossible for youHuh? My gf isn't bourgeois
>Ya no sueltas insultos raciales?Como cual?
Judio negro no es un insulto racial, es un insulto idealists, te estoy acabando intelectualmente al llamarte asi, si leyeras a Marx conocerias el contexto
>Those were/are vassalsIran after the Islamic revolution was a vassal? So why do you support it's national bourgeoisie?
>This will not happen what world do you live inIt literally happened in 2020 lmao.
>>2767453Aldo
>I will not breed for the bourgeoisieIncel moment lmoa
>>2767453>si leyeras a Marx conocerias el contexto Ya se que te refieres a Lassalle, es de las únicas 3 bromas que tenéis los ultras. Pero se que en el fondo lo haces pq eres un racista
Me hartas, me voy
>>2767458No soy racista, simplemente se que si alguien es MTW, muy probablemente sea racializado, por lo que decide ser conscientemente part de esa dinámica, asi que se que ese insulto es doblemente ofensivo
A mi no me molestan los insultos en base a mi raza o etnia, porque no me considero "racializado"
>>2767464You may not be interested in race, but race is interested in you
>>2767468As if I only have to protect myself from racists.
>>2767276
>revolution will start in the third world
Massive cope. Think about what kind of international position a third world revolution would be in and read about the history of socialist movements in SEA, LatAm, and Africa. If you want a revolution, you better do it yourself burger.
>>2767496Not happening, so I guess we’re at an impasse until NATO breaks apart like the Warsaw pact
>>2767497Not happening
right now >>2767499And it won’t until literally everyone is starving and helpless, the whole world economy is designed to prevent that from happening
>>2767504>the whole world economy is designed to prevent that from happeningIt's not doing a very good hob at it.
>>2767504Things getting worse doesn't mean they'll get better. I'd say starvation and even greater dependence on the whims of capital won't really make it easier for workers to organize. If revolutionary conditions are to occur again, I would bet 5$ on the polymarket that it won't be caused (at least solely) by immiseration. For now it just seems to lead to barbarism. I'm not optimistic about the future prospects for socialism either, but things can change any time
>>2767267what loss? people dont think about gravity that doesnt make them suddenly fly
>>2767604Parasocial disorder
>>2767515I don’t want things to get better, I want Americans to suffer like they made Gaza suffer
(Retard) >>2767659Reported for reactionarism anti-communist drivel
>>2767741>muh quality reportJannies literally allow this garbage (alongside yours) so this place is smaller and easier to moderate
>>2767741Communism is a bullshit unachievable abstract ideal, revenge is concrete, material, and cathartic, and is therefore superior
(Reactionary) >>2767771I would snap your neck but a strong wind would beat me to it if you were ever outsie
>>2767773I already told you, meet in Taxqueña subway station, Mexico City you set the date and time.
>>2767776The EZLN will march to Mexico city before I can get there sorry
>>2767776Can you drop already the Mexican act? Just admit you're Canadian
>>2767790>EZLNthey are no longer relevant, anon.
>le people are le dumb
Class consciousness is the party, it doesn't exist outside of it. Read Lenin and abandon your idealism
Retards still believing in spontaneity xd
>>2767966>Read Lenin>>2767970Read Marx and Engels
>>2767989
Okay dude
>>2767974Good posts
>>2767966Bad post
>>2767974Marx and Engels famously believed in spontaneity and a mystical "class consciousness" … that's why they established the first communist party in history
>>2767994>t. Believes in a metaphysical class consciousness Drop the false flaggot
>>2767999
Hang my balls on your face
>>2768002Go to Marxists.org, use the search page and type "union consciousness"
You're welcome, try studying theory before spamming your american fetish on here, you bring us a bad rep.
>>2768006
I refuse to allow the barista discussion
>>2768007You seem to believe I deny the necessity of the party, you are wrong.
>>2768013
>Waste of resources
Subhuman Kaczynskist detected, drop yourself off a bridge and stop wasting valuable resources
>>2768015
Recommend me a left-communist party in Mexico City, I asked in /latam/ and didn't get an answer
>>2768010
Not having it
>>2768013
Communal food (restaurants, canteens) is actually more resource-efficient (economy of scale, just like a factory is more efficient than an artisan) than petty-bourgeois individualistic cooking. This is observable in the very personal kitchen with the phemonemon of: "batch cooking"
>>2768012Class consciousness doesn't exist outside the party. It's not a mystical feeling developed spontaneously that eventually leads to revolution once enough people join the hivemind. The proletariat has exist for hundreds of years yet it took Marx to point out how to resolve the fundamental contradiction between worker and owner.
Actually talk to people and not embrace the right's caricature of a leftist. Activists who think they will become the face of the socialist uprising just by yelling cold takes piss me off.
>>2768032Next time you post a picture can you embed your GPS information on it? your exif metadata is useless abd baren
>>2768044If your GF is bourgeois why are you still working?
>>2768045My GF is not bourgeois, she doesn't own property or industry
>>2768048Isn't her family bourgeois
>>2768038Class consciousness does exist outside the party, as such class consciousness was necessary to exist to form the first international
>>2768044I spend my socially necessarily labor time making r/ultraleft memes
>>2768045I wish my GF was bourgeois. I need an Engels in my life.
>>2768041I looked into it, apparently the anon's name is "kamadak".
>>2768049No, his father is a farmer. He benefited from ejido
>>2768051>I spend my socially necessarily labor time making r/ultraleft memesWhy
>>2768051Kys retarded redditor
>>2768058Because I can get away with it and it's therapeutic
>>2768063>it's therapeuticWhy
>>2768062Reddit is a prole website unlike this lumpen shithole
>>2768064It gives me the illusion of making something as means of expression and being connected to my species being or somet
>>2768065Reddit sucks taint
>>2768065Reddit is literally and American website and the majority of the userbase is American
>>2768076It’s also annoyingly electorialist
>>2767271Yes, but they have a childish view of what rich means
For example, rich people don't deal in money, they deal in assets and expenditure of the capabilities of those assets. Money might as well be shit left over from dinosaurs eating up all the food. That's essentially what money is. We know this because banks can oh so easily freeze accounts, ignore debts, print more, meanwhile they think some taxes or more funds for poor communities is going to solve a damn thing.
You're not physically going to take over industry and the bourgeois isn't going to just give it to you willingly. Revolution is a power fantasy and reforms are a nightmare induced by the weak.
>>2768146
your poltardation is showing
>>2768108I do not disagree with that, the point is that you see class consioussness even in its infancy, proving OP wrong
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