/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

The latter.

I did so I abandoned MLiberalism and became communist.

Here's some contradicting results about the soviet union the eternal science of Marxism Leninism produced that I gathered:
1) The USSR was perfect so it's impossible to exanine its mistakes and errors (there are none), it would be a CIANATO behavior to do so
2) Everything was perfect up to 1956 but went south because Stalin didn't purge enough people and Kruschev was the devil, just purge more people next time
3) The USSR was perfect until evil Gorbachev stabbed it in the back, just don't get stabbed I guess.

>>2773565
The irony about the purges is all they really accomplished in the end was just eliminate every single competent marxist and create a cultire where sucking off the great man in charge is how you advance your career and everyone just lies about their true beliefs and interpretation of marxism because they dont want to get killed and as such you end up with people like gorbachev in charge.

>>2773571
I believe what the purges accomplished was that the ussr didn't fall over when the nazis came knocking

>>2773577
Stalin literally purged his military intelligence chief for telling him that the germans were planning to invade.

>>2773578
Source?

>>2773579
Look him up.

>>2773571
It encouraged a cynical bureaucrat stratum focused on not making waves and advancing trough byzantine intrigue. This is the opposite of what you want in a dictatorship of the proletariat. Even with the destalinization the culture stayed pretty much the same and those people dissolved the USSR trough intrigue in order to get rich when things stagnated a little too much.

>>2773550
Do people on this board ever ask non-loaded non-rhetorical questions? Or do they just ragebait all day?

>>2773571
>The irony about the purges is all they really accomplished in the end was just eliminate every single competent marxist and create a cultire where sucking off the great man in charge is how you advance your career and everyone just lies about their true beliefs and interpretation of marxism because they dont want to get killed and as such you end up with people like gorbachev in charge.
opposite conclusion of the truth, not enough people were purged obviously 🤪

Both trotsky and stalin were wrong
We need a blank state

>>2773671
Posting this in every thread wont make it true.

>>2773671
Even if it's true, it doesn't make western trots any less controlled-op sex pests.

>>2773550
I've seen some say they should've done a better job on consumer goods in the 60s and 70s and they should've embraced computers and cybernetic planning.

>>2773565
>The USSR was perfect so it's impossible to exanine its mistakes and errors
MLs criticize the USSR all the time. They've written entire books on the topic.

>>2773640
you know the answer to that

>>2773626
the paradox is eternal vigilance is needed to prevent that, but the eternal vigilance usually takes the improper form of loyalty purges which result in that stratum in the first place

>>2773578
He was urgin' for some purgin'

>>2773577
Even if there were serious anti-Stalin elements in the government at the time, it doesn't necessarily follow that these would have defected to the Nazis. Historically speaking foreign aggression tends to cause opposition to rally behind the government, not go over to the invaders. Remember that many dedicated Tsarists still sided with the Bolsheviks against the Western backed Whites.

>>2773878
He should've purged himself

>>2773900
Nazi infiltration in ALL countries in the conflict on the eve of ww2 is documented fact

>>2773950
True.

>>2773565
MLs tend to argue about Stalin killing a gorillion people and whether they denounced that too much or little and they struggle around that, but then it turned out the reason the Soviet Union collapsed had nothing to do with that.

It was actually the humble potato that brought it down. If you listen to any boomer who grew up there and hated the system, they always complain about having to pick potatoes. It's like the first thing that comes out of their mouths. In school? They had to pick potato. In the army? Potato. They didn't train for war, they were sent to potato. Anatoly Chubais and other shock therapists bonded over their seethe for having to pick potato, they were like billions must fr. Also see Lukashenko as Homo Sovieticus here. They point it out and online MLs who were born in 2003 are like what nah you're making that up. It wasn't really that the bureaucracy was cynical or didn't really believe in it, it's because they had to pick potato. Everyone did. It really comes down to this.

>>2774047
Now, under capitalism nobody afford potato

>>2774047
So barbaric. Those evil commies should just use migrant slave labour like civilized Westerners! If they complain you can just deport them so you don't have to listen to their bitching.

>>2774226
its fucking disgusting how the ruling class can exploit and scapegoat non white migrant workers at the same time. literally a win win.

>>2774226
Atleast those migrants get paid

>>2773550
Have you learned anything about what the remaining 10% had to adopt in order for them to survive?

>>2773550
The only lesson to be learned is not to let opportunists seeking conciliation by desiring "peace" and "freedom" erode the supremacy of the dictatorship of the proletariat with speeches obscuring the principles of scientific socialism and the need to spread revolutionary terror and class war until socialism achieves global hegemony.

Furthermore, with current technology, economic planning will be easier to do in any way than before, even though economic planning doesn't technically require it. Simply having means of communication to inform and collect information from local and regional popular councils for the supreme popular council for national economic planning is already sufficient.

Another point is the need to re-educate antisocial behaviors of revisionists, liberals, reactionaries, reformists, and ignorant individualists through collective work to build solidarity with other workers around the world without exploiting other workers as cheap labor.

>>2774302
Irrelevant, workers' rights apply to all workers; moreover, in a socialist state you will receive means of consumption after deductions for the total amount of work performed.

I think you're mistaken in thinking that socialism means workers receiving the profits from the sale of everything produced in a society of cooperatives that compete with each other. Therefore, I'll leave you with a quote to help you understand what socialism is, according to Marx:

<Let us take, first of all, the words "proceeds of labor" in the sense of the product of labor; then the co-operative proceeds of labor are the total social product.

<From this must now be deducted: First, cover for replacement of the means of production used up. Second, additional portion for expansion of production. Third, reserve or insurance funds to provide against accidents, dislocations caused by natural calamities, etc.

<These deductions from the "undiminished" proceeds of labor are an economic necessity, and their magnitude is to be determined according to available means and forces, and partly by computation of probabilities, but they are in no way calculable by equity.

<There remains the other part of the total product, intended to serve as means of consumption.

<Before this is divided among the individuals, there has to be deducted again, from it: First, the general costs of administration not belonging to production. This part will, from the outset, be very considerably restricted in comparison with present-day society, and it diminishes in proportion as the new society develops. Second, that which is intended for the common satisfaction of needs, such as schools, health services, etc. From the outset, this part grows considerably in comparison with present-day society, and it grows in proportion as the new society develops. Third, funds for those unable to work, etc., in short, for what is included under so-called official poor relief today.

<Only now do we come to the "distribution" which the program, under Lassallean influence, alone has in view in its narrow fashion – namely, to that part of the means of consumption which is divided among the individual producers of the co-operative society.

<The "undiminished" proceeds of labor have already unnoticeably become converted into the "diminished" proceeds, although what the producer is deprived of in his capacity as a private individual benefits him directly or indirectly in his capacity as a member of society.

<Just as the phrase of the "undiminished" proceeds of labor has disappeared, so now does the phrase of the "proceeds of labor" disappear altogether.

<Within the co-operative society based on common ownership of the means of production, the producers do not exchange their products; just as little does the labor employed on the products appear here as the value of these products, as a material quality possessed by them, since now, in contrast to capitalist society, individual labor no longer exists in an indirect fashion but directly as a component part of total labor. The phrase "proceeds of labor", objectionable also today on account of its ambiguity, thus loses all meaning.

<What we have to deal with here is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it emerges. Accordingly, the individual producer receives back from society – after the deductions have been made – exactly what he gives to it. What he has given to it is his individual quantum of labor. For example, the social working day consists of the sum of the individual hours of work; the individual labor time of the individual producer is the part of the social working day contributed by him, his share in it. He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labor (after deducting his labor for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labor cost. The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another.

<Karl Marx, Critique of the Gotha Programme (1875)

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm

Your feelings are irrelevant. If you deny the political supremacy of the proletariat in order to socialize the economy by abolishing private property, abolishing the anarchy of production, and abolishing social classes, along with denying the dictatorship of the proletariat's power to use revolutionary terror, you will be punished as a counter-revolutionary anyway.

>>2773583
>[Proskurov's warning] conflicted with Stalin's unshakable belief that Hitler would honour the non-aggression pact.
That's from CIApedia
What do the Soviet archives have to say on him?

>>2774378
Idk go search them.

>>2774302
A lot of the time they don't.

>>2774308
>Have you learned anything about what the remaining 10% had to adopt in order for them to survive?

Unavoidable socioeconomic factors, I'm sure.

>>2774047
>Also see Lukashenko as Homo Sovieticus here.
Ok but Luka is based and everyone should pick potato thats a great idea and they are neat.
>shock therapists bonded over their seethe for having to pick potato
see even more based

>>2774268
<there must be some kind of mistake!
>I thought under socialism I would get to pick potato!

>President Xi noted that “in the late 1960s, I worked as a farmer in a small village on the Loess Plateau. There I experienced first-hand the hardships in farming and saw how the local people struggled to make ends meet. Their longing for a better life has stayed in my mind ever since. Half a century later, I revisited the village and found the villagers no longer in want of food or clothing, as evidenced by the happy smiles on their faces. As an ancient Chinese saying goes, ‘Only when the granary is full will people learn etiquette; only when people are well-fed and clothed will they know honor and shame.’ Throughout the years, I have been to cities, towns and villages across China and visited many countries in the world. One deep impression I get is that only through continuous development can the people’s dream for a better life and social stability be realized.”  

>Cromwell and Robespierre failed. Monarchy was restored. Therefore there will never be a world dominated by bourgeois republics
this is basically the argument being used against communism now.

That Marxism-Leninism - Mao Zedong Thought is correct and that modern revisionists want the same to happen to the PRC, only with less "wasted assets".

>>2774764
>That Marxism-Leninism - Mao Zedong Thought is correct
Funny cause there arent any marxist leninists or maoist countries left in the world

>>2774793
ML-MZT is modern China's line.
So called "maoism" is a synthesis of trotskyism and anarchism cooked up by a peruvian cult leader + french intelligentsia

>>2774793
Your conception of history is flat, whiggish and unscientific. Class struggle didn't go anywhere, and it moves in spirals. First a city (Paris Commune); then we "lost", supposedly? Then the third half of the globe (1950s); then we "lost", supposedly? Now the world. What % of the world population earns their income from wages today? Versus what in the 1890s?
>>2774801
No, MZT was replaced with reform and opening up. The revisionist CPC today actively censors and distorts its depiction of MZT and Marxism-Leninism overall, as well as significant historical periods of their own country's modern history, in a desperate attempt to try to secure their corrosive bureaucrat-monopoly capitalist line. It will not work and they will either hand it over to the reactionary nationalists (when they find the mechanism of allied national capitalist forces stable enough) or be overthrown by the revolutionary chinese proletariat ready to retake control. Seeing the movements in the international system right now, arrows point to the middle of the century being a catastrophic / excellent event. The revisionist clique relatedly will try their best to to stabilize capitalism with lies about "[communism in x decades]" during this time. It will be met with a reawakened world not willing to compromise with reactionary classes. You are partially correct on the point of Gonzaloist "Maoism". I recommend you read this thread: >>2767836

>>2773550
The USSR didn't have a "deep state" until after the demise of Lenin. He was a true believer in the revolution through and through.

>>2774764

MaoAnon and Jucheposters are animalistic anti-social lumpens who belong in supermax prison.

>>2774855
If by deep state you mean unelected officials, you're wrong. And if you mean a bureaucracy, Lenin himself complained about bureaucracy forming already.

Ironically, one of the biggest problems with the modern Left and so many Marxists, is the ability to engage in synthesis, one extreme or the other, no inbetween.
The USSR, Maoist period, Deng etc should all be seen as learning experiences, what worked, what didn't work. The USSR in my opinion should be looked at extremely critically from day one of it's foundation, because the USSR is in the running for arguably being the most pathetic, loser fucking country in history. Nazi Germany went down fighting, Soviet leadership cucked out and sucked Capitalist cock live on TV in fucking commercials.
The USSR made massive gains at time, Lenin was a genius, but it's clear the seeds and mistakes of the USSR were planted in it's foundation, how the CPSU was set up etc. Stalin was a needed strongman, but he shouldn't have been needed, institutionally the USSR should have been Communist but it never was, the moment Stalin Croaked it became a fight between self-interested Shitlibs and Russian Nationalists. A decade after Stalin's death Soviet economic system was functionally eliminated and the Nomenklatura were turned into a crypto-Capitalist class.
The big lessons from China for me, is how the Cultural Revolution spiraled out of control. The Cultural Revolution is WHY China did not turn out like the USSR, it was needed to smash the emerging nomenklatura and keep the party adhering to mass line, but large factions of the Revolution turned to complete nihlism, the type you see in the West today, where they went around smashing shit and destroying peoples lives, culture, homes etc just out of pathetic edgy teenage spite, they shit on all China's great cultural, historical etc achievements. Mao himself is one of the great classic Chinese poets, yet according to the Radical Red Guard, classical poetry was shit and bougious and anyone doing it should be killed.
You see that with shit like the 1619 project, the rampant leftist oikophobia, tearing down statues of churchill, lincoln and other national features today. You will never, EVER gain support through rampant cultural self-hating nihlism, but the left refuses to learn this lesson from the Cultural Revolution. They ignore the parts of the Cultural Revolution that were phenomenal and copy paste the parts where Mao himself had to send in the PLA to smash skulls of dipshit sociopathic students.