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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Within the West the left has a common circular conversation: We need to organize, we need a movement independent of liberal political parties, we need independent working class power. The common response: there's no sufficient labor movement, people are too atomized, they no longer live and work in proximity in ways that makes them easily reachable, existing platforms prevent dissemination of our message, etc.

What if the people need to come together to be reached, and what if they get what they need for their liberation, and what they are missing in their lives under capitalism such as community aid and belonging, in a church?

Consider the conditions under which Christianity arose. The older religions including Greco-Roman pantheon worship had declined. They had by no means lost their popularity completely but the awe of the primal forces of nature and the fatalistic philosophical personification and deification of aspects of human behavior no longer spoke as effectively to the increasingly urban masses where the bronze age conditions that inspired the religion in the first place were increasingly remote and abstract. Major rituals and festival were increasingly done by rote or performatively by elites for their political careers, or for the celebrations more than the meaning beneath them. Christianity filled that void, the thought of taking on the sins and failures and brutality of humanity from the top down and dying to absolve the human soul, the thought of an all encompassing and compassionate architecture to the universe and their place in it gave people more awe than witnessing a lightning storm or an earthquake.

We all know how things went since, there's more to criticize about Christianity's history than we have time to go over. But now we find ourselves once again in similar conditions for something new. Religious membership is declining in the west, the remaining membership are either increasingly secularized and bourgeois or increasingly hyper-reactionary or lumpen. These institutions are not able to speak to the problems of the day or any solution for them on a theological or material basis. If the old church was the theological logic of feudalism to come in the shadow of rome, if protestantism was the theological logic of capitalism to come in the shadow of feudalism, then something new whether christian or something distinct can be the theological logic of what is to come after capitalism and more people feel that need every day even if they don't understand it.

I don't expect we will form a new religion here of course, but we can recognize the void that exists in people's lives currently, the need to fill that void that all humans have, and anticipate that it will be filled by something eventually. There have been many attempts, experiments, to forge an alternative to the status quo on religious grounds in the form of various cults, movements and intentional communities through the ages. We can learn from them when framing the theological vision and logic of what comes next. Many of us are not religious at all to say the least, and producing a new religious paradigm is likely not something that is done intentionally from a place of insincerity. Perhaps we may yet inspire the vision of future figures and movements as they form organically, and find in them the allies we need. It may be that an existing institution will transform into the vessel of the new message that will de-atomize and educate the scattered masses in ways conventional organizing struggles to do, to make them see beyond their PMC jobs and treats or across culture war bullshit. I don't want to exaggerate the merits of the Catholic Church or Pope Leo but as the conflict between him and the Trump administration increases, as Latin America is menaced and the Vatican is told by the Pentagon to "pick a side", there is a degree of potential to be found there even if it's an emerging leftward fringe of where he may ultimately allow the Church to be led.

Engels writes upon the parallels of the worker's movement and the early christian movement here (1894):
<The history of early Christianity has notable points of resemblance with the modern working-class movement. Like the latter, Christianity was originally a movement of oppressed people: it first appeared as the religion of slaves and emancipated slaves, of poor people deprived of all rights, of peoples subjugated or dispersed by Rome. Both Christianity and the workers’ socialism preach forthcoming salvation from bondage and misery; Christianity places this salvation in a life beyond, after death, in heaven; socialism places it in this world, in a transformation of society. Both are persecuted and baited, their adherents are despised and made the objects of exclusive laws, the former as enemies of the human race, the latter as enemies of the state, enemies of religion, the family, social order. And in spite of all persecution, nay, even spurred on by it, they forge victoriously, irresistibly ahead. Three hundred years after its appearance Christianity was the recognized state religion in the Roman World Empire, and in barely sixty years socialism has won itself a position which makes its victory absolutely certain.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894/early-christianity/
This is not a novel comparison, since it had already been made by nietzsche decades before, and even before this, early socialists like Proudhon (1848) said that he was inspired from The Bible. Indeed, Jesus is a subversive radical jew who disrupts the social order of Rome, uniting the poor by an egalitarian ethos.

>>2775185
Passolini, a communist, made a film about how Jesus was the first revolutionary. The pope at the time said it was the most accurate portrayal of Jesus ever put to film.

t. Jim Jones

nothing will help bring back the real movement until there is total middle class destruction

>>2775185
I fucking hate community.


>abandon materialism and relapse on the opium of the masses
sigh

>>2775245
materialism serves capital today

>>2775222
t. potato in the sack

>>2775245
it's not a proposal to abandon materialism, it's a proposal that a whole bunch of people will be motivated in ways we appreciate through means that make sense to them even if it's not materialism. this could happen regardless of our opinion on that matter.

>>2775253
It's the peasants who go the fuck on about community though?

>>2775185

This video might interest you: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kwakpq3vdE

The video essentially argues three things:

1.What brought down the reputation of online atheists such that even atheists themselves feel the need to distance themselves from the stereotype of atheists or hesitate to identify as such in public spaces

2.Why communism can't be reconciled with Christianity, or most religions for that matter

  1. The west needs a western revival, and that will require the death of "New Atheism" as spearheaded by Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris.

For the first point, he argues that New Atheists' attitude towards rampant racialisation and demonisation of Muslims as well as their support for the War on Terror undermined the credibility of New Atheism, which is the type of atheism most westerners are familiar with, and thus demonstrated New Atheism's failure to provide a rationalist alternative to Christian bigotry.

For the second point, he argues that throughout history, Christianity (at least as practiced in the west, especially Europe) more often than not has been a reactionary force keen that upholds hierarchy and undermines class struggle by not only pacifying the prole, but also undermine any revolutionary spirit by giving the prole a strong non-class-identity on which to rest on, causing them to side with Christians no matter how counterproductive that may be based on their class interests. So Christianity (as he understands it) turns the prole into lumpenprole.
Continuing on, he gives another reason as to why communists shouldn't rely on religion for support, by giving the example of the past Christian debate on slavery in the early modern era where he points out that it was essentially literalists that were pro-slavery arguing against non-literalists who made up talking points based on their own interpretations. In other words, it was a quagmire, and he wants communists to avoid that.

For the third point, he points out that Christianity, like other religions like Islam, are reactionary and hellbent on maintaining their hierarchy and top position in society, and undermining class struggle and using lumpenisation to their advantage isn't off the tables for them. It is thus that he argues that, with the failure of New Atheism to prevent the current religious reactionary revival, that he urges leftists to form a new class-conscious atheist intellectual tradition.

>>2775246
>materialism serves capital today
how? my guess is you misunderstand what marxists mean by "materialism" and substitute for dialectical materialism the colloquial "materialism" (the aspirational petty bourgeoisie's love of money, clothes, cars, drugs and sex) complained about by spiritual gurus

>>2775261
> people will be motivated in ways we appreciate through means that make sense to them even if it's not materialism
religion is a double edged sword, it can serve both as a motivator or as an excuse for inaction. on one hand you have liberation theologists who believe it is their religious duty to fight the bourgeoisie, and on the other hands you have masses of lobotomized reactionaries who use religion to interpret the world as an irreperably corrupt place that is just a waiting room for heaven. They invoke Ephesians 6:5 which states
>Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as you would Christ.

>>2775484
no, i mean that a materialist or naturalist worldview has no imperative to socialism, and conversely, its the capitalists who are heralding science as progressive as the left become luddites.

File: 1775768687104.png (2.72 MB, 1280x876, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2775185
Liberal Theology? Already included in the western left wing of capital.

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>>2775197
Buddy you forgot the part where Marx and Engels dismissed Christian socialism as Reactionary
>For the rest, so little do they conceal the reactionary character of their criticism that their chief accusation against the bourgeois amounts to this, that under the bourgeois regime a class is being developed which is destined to cut up root and branch the old order of society. What they upbraid the bourgeoisie with is not so much that it creates a proletariat as that it creates a revolutionary proletariat. In political practice, therefore, they join in all coercive measures against the working class; and in ordinary life, despite their high-falutin phrases, they stoop to pick up the golden apples dropped from the tree of industry, and to barter truth, love, and honour, for traffic inwool, beetroot-sugar, and potato spirits. As the parson has ever gone hand in hand with the landlord, so has Clerical Socialism with Feudal Socialism. Nothing is easier than to give Christian asceticism a Socialist tinge. Has not Christianity declaimed against private property, against marriage, against the State? Has it not preached in the place of these,charity and poverty, celibacy and mortification of the flesh, monastic life and Mother Church? Christian Socialism is but the holy water with which the priest consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat.

>>2775506
the capitalists are still idealist tho.
otherwise speculation and credit wouldn't be driving the economy

Every major religion says to not be a greedy fuck. Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, even Judaism in it's early years.

Total Religion Death.

File: 1775780604310.webm (5.84 MB, 480x360, 1774042782582.webm)


File: 1775792374422.png (480.38 KB, 536x720, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2775243
Hank Schrader?

File: 1775792498533-0.png (212.12 KB, 316x488, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1775792498533-1.png (267.37 KB, 383x575, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2775506
> its the capitalists who are heralding science as progressive as the left become luddites.
it's stupid to become a fucking luddite
>no, i mean that a materialist or naturalist worldview has no imperative to socialism
you can't make correct decisions unless you actually understand how the world works and defend materialism

File: 1775792640065.png (141.19 KB, 648x407, Marx On Religion.png)


"Someone put the word 'reddit' in front of 'atheist' and it made a generation believe in god." - Anonymous

File: 1775803345694.mp4 (830.05 KB, 1080x1080, 1767841369007.mp4)

do you know a single western person who goes to church except on christmas and maybe easter?

File: 1775806332262.jpeg (236.39 KB, 828x1144, IMG_6659.jpeg)

Fag shit


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