Can anarchism ever make a comeback? They don't seem to do much of anything nowadays. No propaganda of the deed, no cultural staying power, no media personalities. Baby leftists seem to not even be aware of it anymore.
>>2776884>seem toCause you're an individualist faggot, you're not in IFA and you didn't attend this year's CRIFA in Greece
>>2776888Pro-war "anarchists" are deluded liberals, an outcome of socialdemocratic astroturfing and the mistakes of popular frontism
>>2776891Popular frontism will always be a mistake
>>2776891For reference all of the federations present and active in IFA (and most of IWA-AIT from what I can see) are part of AMI (Antimilitarist Initiative) and refuse to take sides in bourgeois wars.
There is an initiative for action against US military bases, the final decision will be announced publicly after ratification.
>>2776909Ultras you know how most self-proclaimed "communists" online and in real life are MLs and succdems right? For anarchists, most self-proclaimed "anarchists" online and often in real life are succdems and liberals. You're just keen on conflating because of this disproportionate arrangement and general hostilities.
I've talked with ICPs, I know about red scepter, I know about your skeletons in the closet, but I don't go out to claim all ultras are like Lotta Communista. Or that Prometheus (Russia) are like the rest of Lotta Communista.
Instead of looking at the liberal retards like this I suggest talking to an actual anarchist federation or a proper organization. You would never think this but not only do we read all your criticism, we learn from it when it doesn't contradict our principles, for example the LC (from the italian school)'s stance on antifascism I share as a sentiment and so do others in the anarchist federation I'm part of.
On commodity production - we share the same sentiment, we share the same economic analysis. We largely diverge on methodology.
You likely insist on Bukharin's word of anarchism being the movement of the declassed and not of the working class. Most of us reject it, however there is also a thesis of the working class becoming declassed, which is very similar to what the ICC has on decomposition.
I know you're just fucking around for the most part but know that we hate these morons more than you do and generally consider them to be appropriating the name of anarchism rather than being a part of the movement.
There is a lot to talk about. Quit scratching this shit and consider getting in contact with an AC federation.
>>2776936
Authentic
>>2776932In a city I lived in during a big working class upheaval leftcoms and anarchists were collaborating closely. I think there are some insecurities about purity and so on from some very sectarian people online because of the similar takes and activism from both (serious militants) of those groups.
>>2776949We don't want to collaborate with ultras, we are incompatible, our methodology is entirely different.
We don't have to kill each-other either, if our movement is unprepared to do anything then I give the go-ahead for ultras to do whatever they want. I don't care if I live under a bourgeois liberal government or a bourgeois government "of the workers". If they want to give their thesis on the instrumentality of the state a try (for the second time in history after the October revolution) they can go ahead. See the Apollon Karelin approach.
As long as our activity is not suppressed (it is largely just educational) there is no reason to resist when that outcome leads to nothing.
>>2776956And emphasis on want. We have collaborated when there was mutual benefit to it. This one delegate my federation is in contact with is allowed to stay at one of our places because he gives us intel on other organizations, of course he also collects intel from us but we have nothing to hide, so it is beneficial to let him stop by and use the place to sleep rather than shoo him out.
>>2776949Also what the fuck are we supposed to collaborate towards? Activism? The only "activism" my federation does is educational events where we hand out books for free (we pay with our own money from work to print them out) and talk to people. We don't attend any protests or demonstrations, it is pointless. Everyone does that these days and we don't want to march alongside liberals just for propaganda's sake. Growth for the sake of growth makes the basis of the federation retarded, if we just accept any moron who calls themselves an anarchist we will end up with bullshit like IWW In America, those morons still decide everything on a democratic basis - this is fundamentally wrong and democracy itself is rule of the majority and not the correct decision-making process. We have different forms of consensus but ultimately what makes decisions is analysis and arguments. Anyone who speaks of "direct-democracy" or "democracy" within anarchism is either deluded or mistakenly branding consensus and planning as "direct-democracy" because of popular jargon.
>>2776956>>2776962Well in an insurrectionary situation the goal is to smash the bourgeois state for both trough educating agitating and supporting the working class so there's clearly a juncture there, after this
.. not so much although you had people like Malatesta arguing for coexistence.
>>2776973>those morons still decide everything on a democratic basis - this is fundamentally wrong and democracy itself is rule of the majority and not the correct decision-making process. We have different forms of consensus but ultimately what makes decisions is analysis and arguments.That sounds a lot like parts of organic centralism you know
>>2776973My federation also agrees with Bordiga's writings against activism. And in general is against any sentiment that points towards reformism.
Not every federation within IFA is the same however, I see that a lot of the more libbed up ones still dickride "Rojava", the EZLN (NATIONAL LIBERATION MOVEMENT MIND YOU) and other failures. I can't speak for them. But I believe they are desperate to cling onto the closest thing resembling anarchism for the sake of proving themselves to be real.
I think all of these "anarcho-adjacent" projects are garbage and are not even within the history of the movement, especially the AC school. They are liberal deviations
>>2776984Insurrectionists? Lmao. Without proper coordination that leads to nothing.
And "smashing the state" has become such a banal cliche, we seek to change the mode of production first and foremost, the state instrument of repression is to be destroyed in the process when workers are coordinated enough through the federations to run production and logistics as to not require the services of the state or a market economy to exist.
>>2776990Right? But its just consensus to us. Its how we function now.
>>2776992>when workers are coordinated enough through the federations to run production and logistics as to not require the services of the state or a market economy to exist.This won't be anytime soon. It cannot be in isolation and must expand internationally. Any such attempt at "revolution" in isolation will be crushed like the Paris commune.
>>2776992Insurrectionists? Lmao. Without proper coordination that leads to nothing.
And "smashing the state" has become such a banal cliche, we seek to change the mode of production first and foremost, the state instrument of repression is to be destroyed in the process when workers are coordinated enough through the federations to run production and logistics as to not require the services of the state or a market economy to exist.
Except the workers don't wait for you to have magically coordinated everything to strike and riot when the social pressure cooks off and those events are not only good opportunities to be part of the class struggle but I would add the duty for those who claim to be a vanguard to be involved.
>>2777006>Except the workers don't wait for you to have magically coordinated everything to strike and riot when the social pressure cooks off and those events are not only good opportunities to be part of the class struggle but I would add the duty for those who claim to be a vanguard to be involved.Nobody can predict the future, if a crisis comes then we adjust, but we have principles to uphold (literal written principles) so every decision made must be in line with them rather than an attempt to opportunistically just gain momentum. We had several chances to attend "anti-government" riots and we didn't do it because we knew most of the rioters were controlled opposition by political parties and "anti-government" just meant replacing the current bourgeois liberal administration with another bourgeois liberal administration - it has happened before. A real ongoing crisis has to be assessed properly before engaging with it.
>>2777016For some more context on the example they tried to replace a pro-EU pro-NATO government cabinet with an "anti-corruption" pro-EU pro-NATO cabinet. There was no reason to engage. It was the same bullshit fiasco that followed the rest of the world with the odd "Gen Z protesters".
I believe those were instigated by bad faith actors from the west and didn't form organically, perhaps it was time to "clean out" the local oligarchs installed with new ones to give the workers false hope that reforming their nation does something.
It can’t because it is inherently stupid. YEAH I SAID IT! I’m no statist of course, everyone knows that states are an organ of class oppression but you need a dictatorship of the proletariat to protect socialism, look at what happened to Catalonia without a strong dictatorship of the proletariat, it got fucking invaded, if there is no state then other states will seek to conquer it, statelessness can only happen once every state is a dictatorship of the proletariat so then they can deteriorate, I still see anarchists as inalienable comrades though for the time being.
>>2777069Catalonia was a syndicalist popular frontist project, they made two major mistakes - collaborating with the republican bourgeois, starting a "revolution" as syndicalists in a time where they could not possibly expand (export the revolution) and getting stuck.
You dickhead are still stuck up on the semantics of "DOTP". We are for the abolition of class through the class struggle of the workers, we are not for a transitionary "instrumentality of the state" where a "state of the workers" is lead by a government "aligned with the interests of the workers by a party of the workers", we reject the notion that the state can be an instrument of the workers and insist that those operating it are automatically not aligned with the interests of the workers and are no longer part of the working class, but become managerial bourgeois. If they can somehow continue to be acting "for the workers" they ought to export the revolution worldwide and then liquidate immidiately, with production in the hands of the workers the state services are no longer needed and withering would be necessary because you would have no need for a repressive instrument of workers over workers, institutions and other means of maintaining class consciousness and a historical mission would continue regardless. You don't give managerial power to the workers and insist that a clique acting in their name from top can serve their interest. This is where our methodology deviates. We are for the liquidation of the bourgeois, that asserts a "DOTP" automatically without having to use a state instrument, we don't care about sentimentality of how "power of one over another is a hierarchy", a slave revolt is always justified.
>>2777091>. We are for the abolition of class through the class struggle of the workers, I.E. As long as the working class are the revolutionary subject, analysis is needed if class relations are subject to change with any significant shifts under the current mode of production, say for example (just an imaginary example) automation rendering the manual workforce useless to the bourgeois pushing them away from even holding a role in a gig economy (of course this hasn't happened yet, but if it were to be the case, the workers would no longer be the revolutionary subject, it would be the declassed "masses").
>>2776884tbh I thought the argument made by desert that climate change would create a situation where the agricultural surplus and carrying capacity needed for a settled state society will cease to exist over large areas that will be inhabited by various non-state formations like nomads and village communes was compelling. That being in the past those kinds of societies were still pretty hierarchical so not exactly the same thing Kropotkin and Mahkno envisioned at all.
>>2776888>ukraine>>2776891>Pro-war "anarchists" are deluded liberalsWe must never forget this hilarious article:
https://crimethinc.com/2022/02/15/war-and-anarchists-anti-authoritarian-perspectives-in-ukraineLeftists: "You're a crazy fascist for saying 'antifa will always work to destroy the Stalinist authoritarian state, fighting alongside Soros finance imperialists and nazis'"
Ukrainian anarchists: (writing entire blogs of justifications for why they believe in doing exactly that and why they're actually just smol bean little weaklings whose anarchist individualism means they're powerless to effect any collective action so all of this is totally not their fault uwu)
even this NATO organization agrees that the EU was the exploitative globalist finance imperialist side rather than Russia's trade deals:
https://natoassociation.ca/why-yanukovych-was-right-to-exercise-caution-with-the-eu-ukraine-deal-part-2/whoever controls their world-historic farmland that feeds the world, can control the world:
https://www.brettonwoodsproject.org/2023/04/corporations-are-expanding-control-over-ukraines-land-with-help-from-the-imf-and-the-world-bank/https://www.oaklandinstitute.org/our-take/who-really-benefits-creation-land-market-ukraine(and also:
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/after-years-war-with-russia-ukraines-farmers-are-hit-by-iran-conflict-2026-04-10/)
and now thanks to these anarchists, BlackRock is controlling Ukraine's fate:
https://europeanbusinessmagazine.com/business/what-is-blackrocks-800-billion-ukraine-prosperity-plan-critical-minerals-and-reconstruction-explained/ >>2777091>If they can somehow continue to be acting "for the workers" they ought to export the revolution worldwide and then liquidate immidiatelyYeah that was/is the goal of mostly every Marxist country on the planet, yeah non of them are doing it now of course but that is because they can’t, Cuba has been at gunpoint from America for decades so if they started funding revolutions like how they did before the collapse of the USSR then America would just invade. So that is why Cuba is trying to focus on socialism only on their country, you seem to misunderstand how brutally powerful of a force capitalism is, not even a middle power can go against whatever capitalism wants, the only transitional socialist state that could fund revolutions abroad is China but Xi doesn’t have that dog in him. You really seem to think that a country like Botswana could just have an Anarchist takeover and spread revolution abroad which is stupid, Botswana would just get invaded and then it will be replaced by a dictatorship that will set up death squadrons against leftists. In order to do bring about a classless, stateless society you need to build a socialist superpower first.
>>2777128Ukraine at the moment doesn't have an anarchist movement, it has natopolitian "national-anarchists" liberals and neo-fascists
https://libcom.org/article/war-anarchismhttps://libcom.org/article/i-would-prefer-revolutionary-internationalism >>2777135This discussion is getting too long, I don't have time to get into analysis of the "AES" states or exchange feedback.
>You really seem to think that a country like Botswana could just have an Anarchist takeover and spread revolution abroadNo you're just pushing words into my mouth, I didn't say anything like that, in fact I wrote the opposite - if a revolution is to occur it must be on at least a continental scale.
>>2777143>No you're just pushing words into my mouth, I didn't say anything like that, in fact I wrote the opposite - if a revolution is to occur it must be on at least a continental scale.And this is also why I believe Catalonia never stood a chance and shouldn't have happened at all. It was just a waste of lives.
Feels like anarchism is just a naive mindset trying way too hard to seem pure in a messed up world. Whenever communists point out the flaws, anarchists just cry strawman. Seriously need some good books comparing the two, since I just don't get buying into a system that always gets wiped out before it actually helps anyone.
>>2776888Bait 100% go back to israel
>>2777155>I just don't get buying into a system that always gets wiped out before it actually helps anyone.All other movements against the capitalist mode of production have met with historical failures too. A movement that works must learn from its historical failures before making another attempt at an uprising, otherwise what's the point? I can say the exact same for the "communist" movement. Why do you stalinists love to infantilize your opponents so much when most of us are older than you? You should be glad to have younger people in your organization, older people are busy with families.
>>2777155> comparing the twoduring the first international the material contradiction between the two movements was that one was based out of dispossessed peasantry in rural peripheries without centralized government and production and the other was based out of industrial wage laborers in the newly formed urban areas with centralized government and production.
>>2777177
I don't care about some abstract notion of authority if it leads to proper management. It tends to lead to mismanagement when solidified - you need to have reason as to why a person needs to manage other people. We have a secretariat for IFA, would you call that authority? A treasurer for the federation. A moderator for the discussion. If an authoritative role is needed it should be fulfilled, if a task can be fulfilled without it requiring oversight then it should. There is no such dogma as "without authority". Anarchism means without rulers, there is no consensus on where you draw the line at "ruler" and it seems almost subjective so the bare minimum we agree to is against the initiative of anyone who contradicts the principles of the organization and goes against development.
>>2777199Everyone on the internet is just fighting ghosts and shit that doesn't exist in practice. Some still think that Proudhon is some stepping stone to all schools of anarchism and that attacking him crumbles the entire foundation, no we've discarded Proudhon and Bakunin ourselves because the school of AC starts after the death of Bakunin with Malatesta and Carlo Cafiero (who adhered to Marx's analysis of capitalism), whatever meaningful contributions they've made we've taken as long as they don't contradict our positions, some still idolize them but that doesn't matter when nothing of what's written can be put into work.
>>2777167>you stalinists Lmao. The reason anarchism always fails before doing any good is that you guys are just limpdick liberal pieces of shit. The CIA loves you for being wreckers.
>>2777218You call everyone CIA dickwad
>>2777221
>But governance is going to arise and "solidify"
There's no contradiction on the administration of things and what we're striving for. We cannot compromise with methodology.
>>2777236
>your utopian society
Stopped reading there, all against idealism. My federation has declared materialism to be foundational in its principles, anyone striving for a "utopia" is a liberal moron. Like Marx said, we call communism the real movement against the present state of things.
>>2777245
We strive for the survival and development of civilization. There can be no stopping point to say "this is it, we've created utopia, we need no more".
>communist might be a good intermediary as with anarchy
To AC the two are interlinked.
> towards another system doomed to fail eventually
I'm not implying that the next mode of production will fail, that would be luddic Imo. Luddites and other reactionaries bring the idea that any form of production and civilization as a whole is doomed to fail because of scarcity. Everyone on here who doesn't belong to either ought to be pushing to overcome such challenges via proper management through utilitarian means. Living in wild nature is no more sustainable than living in an advanced civilization depleting its planet's resources - both species would inevitably die out, but one could possibly adapt and evolve to something else.
>>2777220>Throwing stones from your anarkkkiddie glass houseLol
Anarchism only works on small scales and due to the internet, people are primed to think of politics on national or even international scales where it's simply not possible to do without a state. I think technology has simply left it behind. You could make the argument that it would be worthwhile to have a compromised version of it present at lower levels of society, but it is simply never going to work writ large.
>>2777316>You could make the argument that it would be worthwhile to have a compromised version of it present at lower levels of society, but it is simply never going to work writ large.this basically my view that anarchist societies could exist(especially in rural areas) as autonomous regions within a broader DotP, similar to how the amish and mennonites just have random communities scattered across rural regions.
>>2777326If the movement only leads to rural shitholes instead of development then I'd rather not be an anarchist. The passage of time will tell what works and what doesn't.
>>2777340
I meant if it leads to regress and stagnation.
>Development will occur whether you want it to or not.
As it should.
I think anarchism isnt destroyed by technology, if anything things like image boards are inherently anarchist, its a hive mind of chaos and people with no identity, or rather people trolling trolls trolling trolls, being anon.
you might remember the early 4chan meme of v for vendetta masks.
>>2777364Ted was not an anarchist and Zerzan was a marxist philosopher, neo-luddism and primitivism are anti-anarchist. They are defeatist beliefs wholly used by bourgeois states and malicious actors, the most reactionary beliefs that exist. O9A's ITS is what primitivism and neo-luddism boils down to.
>>2777367Why are they not anarchist? Ted called himself an anarchist and many primitivists do. Yes he was influenced by Zerzan and Jacques Ellul's The Technological Society
>>2777373>Why are they not anarchist?Anarchim is for progress not regress, it is against rulers - if they want to bring societal regress or collapse they will have to become rulers and fight us for it, all the AC school does not recognize primitivism as a legitimate school of anarchism.
Ted could've called himself anything, it is as legitimate as Rothbard proclaiming himself an "anarcho-capitalist" and the likes of "National-Anarchists", "Anarcho-Fascists", the whole school of "primitivists" is that of reactionary scum and LARPers.
Zerzan is the same as Camatte but it likely Zerzan intended to cripple the anarchist movement by bringing it towards reactionism.
>>2777364there was a short time in the 2010s when ted was popular, mostly with pol and fascists types because he had the foresight to hate leftist identity politics and write about it, i recall there was a movement on twitter called pinetree twitter, but that died because how you going to be both extremely online and an an prim lol
>>2777382they loved the part where he psychoanalysed the 'leftist' mentality, yet they ignore the part where he criticised reactionaries and called them fools lol
>>2777377IFA (the anarchist international) and IWA-AIT (the anarcho-syndicalist international) are for the destruction of primitivism as the most reactionary ideology.
The movement of people for technological advancement coordinating within IFA across federations has vouched to exterminate primitivism as a whole.
let's hope not
>>2777389
Reactionary literally means opposing societal progress, that's the whole premise of primitivism and neo-luddism.
>>2776891all anarchists are liberals thoughbeit
>>2777397All communists are Hoxhaists
>>2776949leftists almost always collaborate irl but it's under the premise that the other guys can be redeemed from their retardedness
>>2776992>the state instrument of repression is to be destroyed in the process when workers are coordinated enough through the federations to run production and logistics as to not require the services of the state or a market economy to existmay I suggest a 5 year plan model in this direction
>>2777410forgot my flag btw
>>2777199yeah this is the reason I stopped being an anarchist at 13
>>2777430Anarchists follow that same reason, you're fighting ghosts - things that do not exist in real life
>>2776888Azov is Actually existing anarchism (antisemitic and russophobe)
>>2777332I only say rural areas since off the top of my head the Free Territory, KPAM and most of anarchist Catalonia were fairly rural
Anarchists generally do infinitely more them everyone on this board combined lmao
Anyway, anarchist thought will play a big role in the future of organizing as industrial global society crumbles apart, the idea of a global revolution and communist order is a spook and always was an extremely naive idea, If the choice was socialism or barbarism, barbarism has won, there never was a competition tbh. You should accept this and adapt your vision and actions accordingly, even if you continue to believe in vanguardism. But most of you cling to a deeply perverted version of 20th century socialism.
it's always very funny how everyone on this board goes "anarkiddie" but then continues to believe that we somehow will get a global communist society which is as infantile as believing jesus is coming back to save us, but it's ok because it is all scientific somehow.
The party is over and the hangover will be painful, it already is for most of the world.
>>2777542truke
>>2777551giga truke
its rare to see a post this sober on this larp asylum
>>2777542Since when did burning trash cans, smoking weed, and squatting in abandoned construction sites become re-categorized as "infinitely more"?
>>2777673>Since whensince the alternative to anarkiddie praxis is just electoralism since all the important communist parties decided to give up decades ago and became social-democrats
>>2777685>since the alternative to anarkiddie praxis isBeing a depressed contrarian communist
>>2777692pretty much, thats the fate of any communist that doesn't cuck out to any type of lassalleanslop in the current political scenario
When Stalin created Israel, I was burning trashcans.
When Mao killed the birds I was squatting in abandoned construction sites.
When the Gonzalo was boiling babies I was smoking weed.
We are not the same
>>277688490% of the American left are anarchists, the rest are Marxist reading groups.
>>2776884>No propaganda of the deedI wish there were adventurists shooting billionaires
>>2778020tbh I think social media is bringing back propaganda of the deed wrt to shit like luigi and the warehouse waster
>>2777976>American left are anarchiststhey are falsifiers, not real anarchism
>>2776888The image that destroyed all Anarkkkiddies
>>2778023It needs to be a daily occurrence
>>2777976True. That's why we're seeing so many dancing videos in protest
>>2778030America has no anarchist federation in IFA, its a mess, I feel like the syndicalist movement fucked them over and IWW is a mess because they let almost anyone in
>>2778122Real anarchism is a vibes based failed ideology that has never been tried
>>2776932>most self-proclaimed "communists" online and in real life are MLsso… communists?
>>2776932>ultras>you know how most self-proclaimed "communists" online and in real life are MLs (This is bad somehow)>You would never think this but not only do we read all your criticism, we learn from it when it doesn't contradict our principles>On commodity production - we share the same sentiment, we share the same economic analysisWill leftcoms ever recover from this post lmfao? Literally indistinguishable from anarchists confirmed. As was my suspicion for the longest time
Next they're gonna reach out to the trotskyites and become one big happy anticommunist family. This is what they mean when they're talking about left unity
>>2777364>Anarchism is making a comeback in the form of primitivismMaybe, maybe not. There was a time where there was genuine, interesting discussion regarding green anarchy, primitivism, and anti-civ, but beyond individual conversation and the occasional blog I think that time has passed. It's also a pain to attempt to have any mature conversation about these topics because you'll either end up dealing with edgy reactoids a la ITS-types or people who have a knee-jerk reaction to any criticism of civilization no matter how small.
Maybe it'll come back, I have a feeling it will.
>>2778621Anarchists and MLs I know irl tend to incoperate self-criticsm and are hungry to read as much as possible from all possible sources to constantly reinforce and critique their own ideology and praxis
Trots ive known irl cannot take any form of criticism what so ever
>>2778721Why did you have to ruin my inflammatory and juvenile post with a nuanced and realistic response anon? tf?
For better and for worse, the workers are very cynical and don't want to mingle in the failed ghosts of the 20th century. That applies heavily to Marxism-Leninism, but also applies to anarchism cause they always allied themselves with liberal democracy at the end of the day. Same could be said to other communists tho.
>>2776884What do you call Canadian toilet paper guy?
>>2779979dont know if you are joking, but if not you got to come up with a better name than alt post left
>>2779955
I'm more familiar with Ontario Canada
But either way based lol
>>2779955>>2780089There's a lot of warehouses in Ontario. I think that's the main part of their economy. It's a logistics hub.
>>2777438most of them dont and you are as delussional as them even if you express your infatilism in other ways
>>2777395what is societal progress, what is the goal
>>2780716"Most" are anarchists in name only and not organized, see the views and principles of federations not random shitty punks who call themselves "anarchist". By your logic most socialists are liberals because most who call themselves socialists are succdems.
>>2780756Societal progress is the real development of the species in all fields and civilization as a whole. Societal relations rely on their economic foundations. Your goal is your goal.
A progressive line looks like this ->
People are dying of cancer and resources are being mismanaged as to not provide treatment or research / research is withheld back on purpose for cures for profit -> A mode of production allows the resources to allocate where they are needed to provide for the development of a cure and provide it to all who need.
Its this ->
its the direction that says you didn't live better before and you will adapt to transcend limitations.
I know your questions are malicious, you will respond back to my cancer example by "its the fault of industrialism and plastic" - of course it fucking is a factor, but nothing is allowing for its functionality to be replaced right now not because of limitations in resources but because production is oriented towards profit. You can't get cancer with hemp-based plastics, they hold biodegradability and leave no microplastics for you to ingest. You fucking luddite would rather drink water from a swine bladder and go through a trial of you and your offspring dying off to wild diseases to adapt to them like the uyghur who refused to wash - and come to write us leaflets about how "hygiene is fascism" on warzone distro. You contract the species' premise of growth and survival because your model is no more sustainable - you will die as a species before the sun explodes on the long term, lifestylist uyghur. When other humans adapt to all the diseases by research and develop transhumanist capabilities you still would rather play in mud hutts and abuse your tribe's children not to leave the tribe. There can be no isolation like that or a broad-scale societal implementation, people will always develop as they have from the beginning of time in a linear path and the lesser developed will be either integrated or become extinct.
If you try to drag down others down your road you will only bring extinction closer to yourself. There can be no going back.
>>2780810 (Me)
>cures for profit Correction - treatments not cures. Its always prolonged "treatments" to maximize profit.
>>2780810 (Me)
Malthusian schizophrenia looks a lot like the opposite of hoarding - any interaction with the environment is too much! Something will be wasted! And its conclusion is that of VHEMT - that the world is better without people and that the species should kill itself as to not harm the environment. A misanthropic fantasy of poverty disguised as glory that "the species is better off not progressing" stunting its development.
>>2781669
You have nothing to add reactionary bastard, you admit that you fundamentally don't agree with the notion of progress and want to deprive the word of meaning. You cannot undermine anything because you are fundamentally in contradiction with anarchist-communism that seeks the betterment of society and not its complicity with poverty and rot.
>>2781684when 'the goal is the goal' it's a meaningless tautology. It's no different from capital accumulation. The rest of your words to me are water off a duck's back. I don't really have a personal issue with you. I just can't see how true anarchy can exist with normative ideas of progress.
>>2781692"The goal is the goal" is to say everyone has different goals and we seek a society where all goals are aligned to coincide, for that to occur one's goal and aspirations have to be mindful of others and responsible for themselves. A luddite like you aligns development with the growth of capital - as if there was no growth prior to capital, as if humanity and other species didn't grow and evolve before production. Growth is not intrinsic to capitalism, capitalism's growth is simply not sustainable. With a planned economy we can control and direct when and how it goes - we can stop where we meet limitations until a solution is figured, now with the market driven production there is no stopping it just goes AWOL until it runs out of shit to make profit off of. We need to plan our own growth and make careful considerations and everyone has to be involved or the entire species will end up killing itself along with the planet.
>I just can't see how true anarchy can exist with normative ideas of progressYou should have started off with this, its not in contradiction, freedom is to be responsible for oneself in relation to others - as to no undermine the premise, an "anarchy" is the premise that people either accept or not - to not rule and not be ruled, they have to cooperate and coordinate in common interest to lead to progress, anyone who defiles this relationship to try to prevent production, research and development is to overstep and rule over them.
>>2781700Even the fucking leftcoms have figured out this approach to limitations and written extensively on regrowth. We've overstepped our capacity and boundaries and are now suffering in an ecological crisis, but no one is stopping, not because most people don't acknowledge this but because the goddamn market forces wait to suck out all the possible resources they can profit off in production for production's sake - no goal and no plan to be had besides accumulating capital driven solely by profit, its all short term suicidal thinking, profit is fucking worthless in the long term, they want to rise their own status and be able to harness power by becoming greater market actors and this aspiration of the petite bourgeois to become big one day is only there since competition is encouraged instead of cooperation they want Darwinian apeshit and to get away with anything their ego wants by having so much wealth that no one can touch them out of purchasing power.
>>2777136>>2777128People from within the Ukrainian anarchist space have absolutely been against the war, Vyacheslav Azarov the author springs to mind, and the pacifist quaker anarchist types, then there are Ukranians who have had to escape who are part of anti-militarist initiatives in neighbouring countries.
I wonder what your ulterior motive is.
>>2781704Primmies look at this and at least acknowledge that they didn't have as much destructive capacity before, when they could just stroke their ego by brute force instead of purchasing power, they want retreat because they are afraid of the damage that can happen now. This is absurd, but its at least in fear of self-preservation, they still can't be reasoned with, even if it happened even if civilization collapsed it is not this notion of progress or development thats destructive, people could have killed each-other off long ago if they just started to scorch forests on fire. We could have all gone extinct by fire LONG AGO when the world population was much smaller. Their ambition for regress is not sustainable, they are disgusted by the word "sustainable" but its what they want, there is only way to meet "sustainability", its to instill absolute cooperation within society and plan all major actions, anything from construction projects, food production to going to space it all has to be planned, consulted and done with reason to not challenge the limitations of matter. There can be no reason with primmies still because they believe we're done for - completely fucked, that we're past the point of no return and everything is done for. As long as the species exist and as long as sapient life exists its not over, you have brains to think with and need to figure out how to resolve the issues, there is no ultimatum that says "GAME OVER" as long as people are still have cognition.
>>2781718Assemblia (Assembly) were pro-war and turned anti-war only when they distanced themselves from the label of anarchist, even though their views are still very much anarchist, they were repulsed by how the word has been distorted in Ukraine, there is no real anarchist movement there, there are only individual cases.
>>2781722Theres too much unnecessary shit being made right now, we're just fucking around with the planet's resources for fun and for profit. The logistics make no sense outside of the context of the market economy - importing wheat from five countries over to your own while your own country is selling off its own wheat, only because the wheat imported is cheaper and yours sells at a better price, this is the kind of retarded fucking shit wasteful of resources, how much fuel does this take to be happening constantly??? The bourgeois don't give a shit about fuel being scarce, they have no shits to give that this can't go on forever, they seek profit to gain purchasing power in the moment and YOLO.
>>2781723The pro-war 'anarchists' in Ukraine were just apolitical punks, useless SxE lifestylist types and Russian insurectos who were to pussy to go to Rojava are today either dead or completely broken from the wider anarchist space, the ones who are still alive are completely divorced from radical politics for now many years.
It is beyond pathetic to give these people the title of Ukrainian anarchist movement.
>>2781729This is just one example, ridiculous shit like this is happening all the time, all of production is like this. Its not just food, its all goods and services produced that are wasteful like this now. Everything is wasteful now, its not meant to last long. Primmies think this is an inevitable lead to fall, they don't think anyone can stop it but that collapse is inevitable, if collapse happens this cycle will continue as long as people are alive, no one can stop production its what sapience lead to. We have to control production properly if anyone wants a future and a life worth living for their needs to be fulfilled.
>>2781734I've been saying this for years, my anarchist federation still writes about this extensively. All of IFA and IWA-AIT know this, but some faggots who think the military chic of "anarchism" suits them want to parade themselves on behalf of all to promote natlib shit against class war. Comrade Georgi Konstantinov said that we have to first settle our accounts with them, we have to fight them off first before we can face on anyone else, modern anarchists may be "modern" but they are not anarchists at all, they are not the product of anarchism.
Make Anarchy Order Again
Anarchism only got as big as it did when it was based in a secular immigrant industrial proletariat, or when it was effectively the basis of a national movement. The only place that has organic, large scale anarchism is Indonesia and that is solely because they are very active in organising the irregular economy and that anyone who even says the word communist gets legally gangraped (in all senses of that phrase).
Indonesian Anarchists are very based tho.
>>2781791They were heavily involved in the recent protests which has lead to a resurgence but considering how much their driver/rider unions are active I would say so.
Self identified anarchists have been increasingly mindbroken by queer-DNC-socdem nonviolence over the years. They're not crazy violent vitalists that peoples fear they're more like jarring but ultimately innofensive dyed hair polycules.
Tyler Robinson did some real old school anarchist mayhem and he probably would never identify as such.
>>2782312Shut up and go away, yanke.
>>2776884how can anarchism make a comeback if it never had motion in the first place?
From my local experience anarchist are more active in the street in the form of small scale riots and civil disobedience.
Communist parties have more ritualistic marches and visiting memorials.
The transformation from sign holding socialism to transformative socialism will require the segmentation from large parties to small groups.
In other words, the PSL is a kill list for ICE. Just one juicy database to dump into Palantir after enforcing the anti-communist enforcement act of 1953(?).
>>2776884your question is a leading one, based on an idea of anarchism as a chooseable model that can be implemented 'over' society, like democracy, communism, neoliberalism etc. You're essentially searching for a state that is implementing anarchism and that's why you'll never find it.
Anarchism, as an empirical fact of communities exisiting outside the state is way more common than Russian marxism inflected communist parties these days. Investigate any global south country that has conflict and you'll find anarchism
>>2777155Feels like communism is just a naive mindset trying way too hard to seem pure in a messed up world. Whenever liberals point out the flaws, communists just cry strawman. Seriously need some good books comparing the two, since I just don't get buying into a system that always gets wiped out before it actually helps anyone.
What's funny about lefypol is that
>>2796415 would normally get people banned but
>>2777155 is a-ok
>>2796360I think the anarchism that comes with conflict in third world countries and the anarchism promoted by westerners are very different and should be considered as much, ones an economic condition caused by collapse and typically just manifests in might is right gangsterism and warlordism until stability can be regained and typically another more stable ideology can maintain itself vs the ideologues who want an advanced form of anarchism
Anarchism will never be a political movement again until it can throw off the whole crust punk squatter lifestylist bs.
Which is not to say you can't like punk music or dress alt or squat a building. But anarchism shouldn't be a fashion and lifestyle choice if it's going to achieve anything ever. Your politics can't just be an aesthetic choice.
>>2796419Report them both.
>>2796443Aren't you the guy who tried to tell us the Dalai Lama was the head of Buddhism? Nobody cares what you think.
>>2796455Product of the 90s. A dead age, who cares.
>>2796460>no one must ever be wrong everok buddy, good luck with the vampire in the castle.
>>2796468Its not that you're retarded like you say, it's that you come here to spout nonsense you've done no reading on and are so egotistical to think anybody needs your uneducated and wrong takes.
No investigation, no right too speak.
>he larps that imageboards must be like a maoist book club
kinda cringe, I took the L, I advise you move on.
>>2796497
hall monitor energy
Everyone should hold hands in a big circle and sing The Internationale
>>2776893Popular fronts defeated the nazis
>>2777397Everyone's a liberal now
The definition of a popular front is important. Who is included and who is excluded.
Imagine that global war breaks out on the basis of class or politics. Marxists and Anarchists can team up of course but the fact is liberals, soc dems, all kinds of weird centrists will also try to infiltrate and join and dilute the cause, likewise so might nazbols and ACP, CPB, etc types and in either case they all must simply be vapourised on sight.
No thank god
>>2776888Yeah with Azov. Fascism is anarchism, read Haz
>>2796419Because leftypol's user base and mods are like 80% /pol/chad incels who just chose another team, it's painfully obvious that most people here are just posting from their parents basement, bitter and angry that nobody wants to fuck them.
I mean, just look at this thread, it is so fucking bad, I want to be compassionate but all these losers are just fucking repulsive and no movement or woman exists that could accommodate them with their deeply antisocial behavior and thought patterns. So many here will never leave the backseat, they will never do anything.
>>2797380>chad incels FUCK
Also, tbf the mods here are more like socdems instead of chuds
>>2797386>VoluntarismInvoluntarism
>>2797388>i uh i h-have free will, chudNo you dont
>>2797390Who gives a shit about something as meaningless of a concept as free will?
>waaaaaah everything is shit waaah
Unique IPs: 56