>Unemployment to rise by a quarter of a million as Iran war hits UK economy
<The working class in Britain faces a surge in unemployment as the economic shockwaves from the war on Iran push an already stagnating economy towards recession […]
Britain status?
81 dog maulings a day in UK
More than half the amount of daily stabbing amounts: 140
Its dangerous to even walk at parks due to dickheads who let their dogs off the lead. I actually got bit not long ago and the owners were utterly unapologetic. Its a civic crisis.
>>2792132I agree that dog maulings are bad. But I think letting your dog off lead in the park is fine as long as they're not aggressive. It's cruel to just keep them on the lead all the time.
>>2792141Would be easier if we just banned shitbulls and xl bullies
>>2792143Didn't we already do that lol
But also, aren't most dog bites from small dogs anyway?
>>2792146>Didn't we already do that lolApparently, yet every day someone falls victim to one
>small dogs"maulings" tell a tale
>>2792143They're technically already outlawed.
With the slight caveat that those already in the country before they were banned don't have to be put down, so long as they're neutered and both muzzled and on a lead whenever they're outside.
That said I still frequent see them whenever I go out breaching those rules.
There's one local lumpenprole chav who carries a plastic bag full of raw meat when he walks his XL, which I can only assume he believes is in the hope that shaking the meat bag will distract his baby eating murder-hound from going on a killing rampage.
>>2792132I had to kill a dog once that attacked my dog, ran away unleashed at night and locked onto my dog, had to break its neck.
What i'd say about Keir Starmer is that no one likes traitors. No one like the trator and no one like who they betray for.
>>2792152XL bullies will be crucial to the revolution. They should be trained to be as agressive as possible and then promptly tossed at the closest group of gammons available. Those fat fucks will have no chance.
>>2792169
adequate flag
>>2792149>"maulings" tell a taleit's 81 dog injuries that required treatment per day, not 'maulings'.
>>2792172Youre right lol 😂
I read the newspaper headline of "maulings" and extended it a bit
The Labour party being destroyed is the only hope for British workers, Kier is doing exactly as he needs to
>>2791565Argentina has a much stronger legal claim on the islands than britian does. When Argentina gained independence from Spain the whole colonial territory passed to them under the principle of Uti Possidetis Juris. Britian would lose if this case was brought to the ICJ and it's most likely why america has always remains neutral
>>2792202Sure but if right of self determination is based on who the people are and what they want, Falklanders are all english speaking brits who want to remain in the UK, there isn’t even a Spanish speaking native population they’re bullying and oppressing like Ulsteroids.
>>2792205Rights to self determination belong to nations, the Falklands are not a nation and have never been a nation. If they would like to be an independent one for the first time that would be great but there's no legal avenue for their continued existence as a colonial outpost vestige anymore, it's either independence or amalgamation with Argentina
Arguments about the rights and wrongs of the Falklands are boring. It's an instrumental issue, not a question of principle.
How are the AnCaptards gonna explain Milei contemplating breaking the NAP with the Falklanders?
What about the Falklands right to their own privacy and their property bro??? Don't let the big state interfere with their lives!
if it weakens british imperialism then good
>>2792224British imperialism stopped existing with the suez crisis, its last convulsion with Good Friday Agreement
>>2792227Ulster? Chagos? Akrotiri?
>>2792227>British imperialism stopped existingLol
>>2792230You can’t be an empire and a vassal at the same time, the UK has been a vassal since the creditor debtor relationship with the US flipped in WWI
>>2792235The UK has been a Zionist vassal since 1815, and the US since 1912
>>2792185don't worry, you're not the only one they fool, but try be smarter
>>2792228All victims of British imperialism are victims of America in the end
>>2792202>Britian would lose if this case was brought to the ICJ and it's most likely why america has always remains neutralI mean who won the case would depend on politics, but on a straightforward legal understanding, there is absolutely no chance that a court would strip British ownership (against the will of the people living there) based on such a weak ass claim from over a hundred years ago. Argentina never sent anyone to occupy the islands nor was it mentioned in any documents stating what the newly independent state's territory was.
>>2792211Lol why. Do all exclaves have to be independent colonies for some reason? What about all the various islands around the UK?
>>2792235'imperialism' isn't the same as being an empire.
I think as a compromise we should just nuke the Falklands several times until it sinks into the sea then we can forget this whole sorry mess ever happened.
>>2792235The sub imperialists are not 'vassals'. UK foreign/domestic policy is set in London and they have agency+ambition like every other imperialist clan. The british suck american cock willingly, that's the difference. Fun fact: engloids export more financial services than even america, it hasn't lost its financial capital influence, it merely sees itself better off by cooperating with the other imperialist gangsters instead of competition
>>2792249It sounds absurd but you will understand English culture is some lad saying this on a boat with a gun somewhere and then deciding to do it anyway for the banter
>>2792246>independent coloniesoxymoron
>>2792256ok then, i mistyped, i mean 'independent countries'.
>>2792246>What about all the various islands around the UK?does any nation have a stronger contesting claim on them? no? so then who cares who Jersey belongs to?
Imperialism sounds quite kinky tbh…
Oh yes plunder me harder! Yes, yes, extract my resources! Oh Marx I've been colonised!
Something new to try in the bedroom I suppose, although clearly unironic irl imperialism is NOT nice.
>>2792252The UK literally cannot even use its own nuclear arsenal
>>2792263look up "raceplay"
>>2792263>>2792266Something something ash sarkar white husband
>>2792264so? turkey too uses american nukes, doesn't stop them from laying the foundations for a neo-ottoman empire. engloid servitude to uncle sam is out of convenience and expedience, not necessity
>>2792277Keep believing that, Trump is going to annex the UK and kill the royal family next year
>>2792287didnt trump say he wanted to join the commonwealth lol
>>2792290The only way the US joins the commonwealth is to take it over and attempt to make every commonwealth country into a new Puerto Rico
>>2792287Trump will die of old age by then.
And what sweet poetry will be writ
For the fall of Empire.
>>2792295Vance will try and fail before losing to Gavin Newsome who will do the same thing, declaring US sovereignty over the City of London
>>2792261I mean probably because we were talking about colonies just a thought?
>>2792262Yeah and the British claim to the Falklands is stronger.
>>2792311>Yeah and the British claim to the Falklands is stronger.this opinion is solely held by the british ruling class, whom will never get the support of the americans because falklands are under jurisdiction of the now revived Monroe doctorine
>>2792228should hand over Gibraltar too tbqh
>>2792316I mean if America actually says they support Argentina having it and will try make that happen then sure but until then no. The alliance of the UK is worth a lot more to the US than caring about the Falklands
>>2792289These are the reactionary LARPers who tell you to hate because of their religion btw, they're overwhelmingly like this. It's a grift.
Hegseth was quoting a fictional Bible verse from Pulp Fiction just last week too.
>>2792337>The alliance of the UK is worth a lot more to the US than caring about the Falklandstrump wouldn't be threatening to support argentinas claim if that were the case
>>2792346Wow, I never knew this.
All while Trump is playing anti-Christ as well!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/apr/25/met-police-investigates-hundreds-officers-palantir-ai-tool
>Met investigates hundreds of officers after using Palantir AI toolAll watched over by machines of loving grace
>>2792393we desparately need a divorce from the US
>>2792435Its a gateway drug to nazism.
>>2792435I agree. But English socialists should never be flying the butcher's apron. Instead they must embrace St. George's Cross.
>>2792435the only way to defeat the lies of nationalism and race war is with the trvkenova of internationalism and class war
Started seeing adverts for medical cannabis. Is this the sneaky de-facto legalisation route for people willing to tell a private non-GP that they're depressed?
>>2792350Trump also threatened to invade Greenland does that mean he will actually do it? no, it's just to extract concessions.
>>2792542this has been a thing for a while but I hear that the prices are terrible and the weed is shit.
>>2792542>>2792601For medical cannabis you need the following:
>A medical condition diagnosed by your GP (can be anything, depression, anxiety, chronic pain, cancer…)>Evidence that you've tried at least 2 conventional treatments for said condition without seeing successful improvement in symptoms>A consultation with with a private clinic, typically by video call or zoom>These cost £30 - £100 per consultation, depending on the clinc>Then an additional check up consultation 1 month after treatment starts, and then once every 3 months for a year following, and then twice a year for as long as you take the cannabis>You have to pay the fees for all of these check ups too>Your regular GP will be informed of your treatment and can block it at any time if they feel like it>After all of this, you can go into a medical cannabis dispensary and buy legal weed, which is typically double or almost double of the current street price.In other words you're looking at £200 - £500 in consult fees and then £15 - £20 per gram… it's not something that's cheap enough for the average prole to consider nor is it worth it if you have a decent black market alternative. Not that I am encouraging illegal drug taking, to any janitors or glowies reading this… :)
>>2792601>Trump also threatened to invade Greenland does that mean he will actually do it? noso naive. america will take greenland after it takes cuba. its not just trump that wants greenland, american elites have been coveting it for decades. the sooner euroids understand this new political reality the better
>>2791817https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/apr/26/car-explosion-dunmurry-police-station-belfast-northern-irelandApparently New IRA is getting active again, they've blown up a car next a police station (no one died).
Still, far away from a second Troubles, but intresting to keep in mind.
I've been noticing a lot recently. Noticing that whenever boomers, really 90% of people who are age 65+, are asked who they'll vote for, it's always Reform.
And for the other 10%? Half of them support Lowe.
We have a societal problem on our hands where the aging and elderly are all fascists and Hitlers.
Why do you think that's the case and what should we do about them?
I wish we could throw every Reform boomer in a labour camp but what can really be done in current conditions?
>>2793526Honestly I don't really think anything can be done, at least not by us, we just should focus on propagandising the next generation. The boomers are a lost cause and God willing they will all die soon.
>>2793526Would be interesting to see the statistics for home ownership in Britain broken down by age groupings and set against voting preferences
The idea that Reform will do anything to remediate the dispossession of younger ages and the more vulnerable in society is hilarious, as Lowe characteristically along with the rest of his troupe view welfare as entitlement and simply seek to slash it.
There is no practical policy ideals these groups can offer to British society beyond the a xenophobic nationalism by which they mean to ouster the dead wood within Parliament and seize further political control for their own enrichment.
Reminder that the right of freedom of association doesn't exist in this country. Don't want to invite a TERF to your club? Hope you've got a good lawyer.
It doesn't matter if the founding purpose of the "no homers club" is to exclude homer for being an annoying liability with bad politics, homer has an equality act protected belief that you've got to be his friend, and Mr. Burns to fund his court cases to boot. Don't like it? Move to shelbyville.
Keir Starmer should invade mainland Argentina.
>>2794192He should nuke it
>>2794203
dont stoop to the ragebait, anon
>>2794194No way, Argentinians hold much more value than British
>>2794225oh I thought it was the falkland islands not the wider country
Starmer should then instead nuke England
>>2793621It's long past time we started talking about feminist's wrongs. The taxpayer shovels money into these TERF institutions who only exist as a gatekeepers. I'm tired of hearing about VAWG, as if violence against little boys is any better? Or against men for that matter? As if putting up posters everywhere telling men to 'be better' is going to achieve anything? Of course I don't sperg about this in public but pisses me off how many otherwise sensible people will buy into the "ugh men" shit.
>>2794270cont.
>Bristol>Edinburgh>Cardiff>Chesterfield>Salford (yes the quality was like that)
https://deepleft.substack.com/p/foreigners-hurt-nativesFAO: our local rightoids and other immigration restrictionists.
>>2794886Deep Left!
He is one of the last interesting commentators on the internet.
Shame he deleted his Youtube.
>>2794886>no one cares that white people commit rapes, or purchase housing, or compete for a limited pool of jobs. What conservatives care about is white wellbeing. They are White-Firsters.This is why you need material analysis to understand what is happening. We can see racists as racial protectionists, who dislike the idea of freely competing with other races; this then implies that racial competition would threaten their monopoly (say, on women), and thus racial discrimination is born from this (which is why segregation only emerges AFTER the abolition of slavery in the US). This is the conservative attitude, while the liberal attitude is non-competitive, because of a lordly and condescending attitude to the barbarians and the plebs. This is also structural of class and territory, where the libreral is often a white-flighter and thus performs their own private segregation - we need more immigrants? Great, so where shall they live? Next door? You don't see it. This is also why anti-asylum seeker rhetoric became more politically relevant as migrants were moved into middle class areas). So then, racial competition is either restricted by protections, or exported.
>Nationalism, if taken to its logical conclusion, would necessitate that we ban cross-cultural exchange, to keep cultures “pure.” Well, the great Hearth of Rome was extinguished when the Christians took power, terrorising Pagans afterwards by the formal abolition of local and folk tradition (culture is inherently particular; a universal culture is a contradiction). Culture is local, and "national" culture is anti-cultural. Deep Left is short-sighted on this question.
>In the same way that conservatives think change is evil, I think change is good.This is an entirely unqualified statement. Nuclear War is the most novel act, yet least desired. So Deep Left must learn to be teleological; change must be a means to an end.
>This is directly opposed to the traditionalist model of governance, which worships the gerontocratic antique as the source of all legitimacy.Its interesting that Deep Left posits this in opposition to Platonism, since Plato in many places, expressly defends tradition and hierarchy. Plato was not a modern.
>Insofar as culture has ever changed, it has done so by force or the threat of force. Liberalism is unique in world history in that it allows for technological progress and cultural change while keeping the violence hidden. It is thus the most Platonic.Again on the "change" of culture; where does culture begin and end? If we look back at Christendom, it is about centralising Europe into an international power with a universal faith at the core of it. The protestants later advance from this sterility by the prohibition of all worldly delights. Is this a culture or an anti-culture? The iconoclasm of christianity leaves no room for representation. Art begins to die. This is why we refer to the Dark Ages, which is broken by Renaissance; a remembrance of something lost, which flourishes by the freedom of information. So then, Deep Left should emphasise "communication" as the driver of dynamic connectivity, or as Robert Anton Wilson speaks of, there are two types of people; info-phobes and info-philiacs. Plato expressly supported censorship because he thought the poets revealed too much about the nature of the Gods.
>>2795543Il be buying my own flat soon. For reference my rent is 800 pounds per month to live in the literal worst area of the city I live in. Il be moving into a nicer area in the same city and my mortgage will be £200-300 and my flat bigger plus il actually own the thing in 10 years (planning to overpay by a few hundo a month when I can)
Sounds like this noob just over-leveraged and is surprised when he gets cashed in on or the line goes down at all lmao, no sympathy.
>>2794906Cheers comrade. I saw that, seems to have been put together pretty last minute. Any idea who is behind organising it?
https://www.instagram.com/wrexhammayday/ >War on war
>Love. Hope. Unity
Why are they like this
>>2795760>War on warGerman slogan
>Love. Hope. UnityLiberalism.
Utopian socialists were more correct than Marx in practice (even if Marx had the better theory) and the victory of Marxism over Utopianism has, counterintuitively, discouraged experimentation and practical work which would (however minutely) develop the productive forces in favour of LARPing and waiting for someone else to bring about barracks social democracy
Pretty common pattern for modernism. "It just works" subsumed to "it makes sense in theory"
Maybe I'll make a thread to that effect in future.
>>2795543>why can't my investment just be guaranteed free money forever???? Casinos should give the punters the edgeAnd they claim we're demanding the impossible
>>2795842And the sources I will quote for my post, you ask?
None
>>2795842What I appreciate about Robert Owen's work, especially "Revolution in the Mind" (1849) is his pure practicality (since he was a manufacturer, first and foremost, and also someone who created experimental communes). In that work, he offers a code of law, accounting costs, policy reforms, and a letter of public appeal. Marx's flaw is that he is too critical and not constructive.
>>2795895that we're not living under socialism or communism and have all but given up on experiments on scales smaller than "the former russian empire" would seem to me source enough.
What does leftypol think of the greens? They've had some pretty good opinions there from what I've seen so far
Lost my fourth job since the pandemic, literally all due to employers deciding to shut the business. Applied to hundreds of jobs this year. Got one response, did the interview and a technical assessment, passed, got put in a talent pool.
Going mental. Jobcentre telling me to apply for PIP and LCWRA cause I'm autistic, but this is the first time in my life I've been on the dole. Absolutely shite. May as well give up and do fuck all.
>>2796045Can't think of anyone else I'd vote for
>>2795896As far as I know Marx and Engels considered Robert Owen a utopian because Owen addressed the ruling class to bring about socialism, not because they thought anything else about his writings unsound.
>>2796140Well, Owen is also the person who theorises labour vouchers, which becomes incorporated into Marx's later vision of distribution.
According to the Office for National Statistics, 2026 is on course to be the first year on record where total deaths in the UK outnumber total births.
Thoughts?
>>2796218More immigration (BBC) incoming.
>>2796126What are your skills, theres always jobs in stuff like prisons.
Another antisemitic attack in London, when will it end
>>2796126stop applying for jobs tbh, the system of online applications leading to a job is about as outdated advice as boomers telling you to just walk into a business and ask to be hired with a handshake.
Its all agencies now, hit up pertemps and you'll have a job in a week.
>>2796481True tbh when I was a jobless Johny they had me a job in like 3 days.
>>2791817brit should switch alliances and fight alongside iran against the colonies
>>2796580How about everyone should stop being a christcuck faggot including you?
>>2796582We are all Christians now, just in matter of degree
The Gret Work is in commencement
>>2796408What on fucking earth can motivate such a policy?
>>2796675Glowvara, barely glows anymore, just talks celebrity gossip shit.
>>2796670control freakery, the head probably thinks if everyone is 'dressed smart' it will somehow increase educational attainment and discipline
>>2796675yeah it's ridiculous for some 'dissident' media posers to actually be taking up the argument of shoplifting being wrong lol
>>2796691Obviously shoplifting is wrong, deeply infantile if you say otherwise.
>>2796691Tbf, I dont think novara have ever marketed themselves as rebellious; they're more soft-voiced, moral high-ground people, not punks.
>>2796675Novara are the media face of the green party more or less, it exposes the succ dem worldview.
>>2796694Depends how fucked the material conditions get tbf
>>2796675Nooooo not the heckin proletarian store owners
>>2796699Worsening material conditions for everyone around you is retarded and anti-social.
>>2796700Yes there are proletarian shop owners
>>2796698Stealing would never improve them at the social scale. Also not the case Britain.
Will someone think of the exploited class of store owners like Asda and Tesco
>>2796702>Worsening material conditions for everyone around you is retarded and anti-social.People that obediently use the self-checkout have done much more to harm the working class than shoplifters.
>>2796703All that happens , is those stores leave, and you produce a ghetto.
Guess what theres no supermarkets in the ghetto and they are no closer to class consciousness or revolution.
>>2796707False
>>2796708>All that happens , is those stores leave, and you produce a ghetto. that only works if soft cunts like you are still pearl clutching about it. if shoplifting happens everywhere then they cant just run away.
also, shoplifting is a tiny part of the profits of these places. if M&S can't sell enough and has to close down it's probably because they're too expensive for people to afford not because of shoplifting
>>2796708I assure you anon, tescos are in the ends.
You don't have to guess you know, you can drive down from the top of the hill to see
You cannot buy a decent balsamic vinegar in a supermarket anymore. This is because its too valuable and easy to steal.
>>2796713you can still buy plenty of things that are expensive as shit in the supermarket. if that was the issue none of them would sell booze anymore. again its the problem that the average person cant spend £10 on vinegar
>>2796711False. There are vast areas without supermakets due to mass shoplifting. They are replaced by worse services, with high prices.
>>2796712There are less. They are smaller, they serve worse goods if present at all.
https://foodfoundation.org.uk/news/breadline-voices-food-desert-garden-england >>2796702I went on a pub crawl once and went into a dodgy bar in a large city, right when I walked in two drug addicts had about 50 lumpark butter tubs on the table and where selling them for 1 quid a pop
I bought 3.
>>2796718>False. There are vast areas without supermakets due to mass shoplifting.like where?
also can you explain to me how it's harder to shoplift from a tesco express than a tesco?
>>2796716A decent balsamic starts at 18-20 pounds and you can easly get the entire stock in a small bag. Not the same as Alchol for this reason.
And the vinegar lasts for 6 months at a time even at heavy use. So its not a cost thing for individual consumers.
>>2796716Ive seen the change that shops go through in high theft areas, all that happens is they put a fence between you and the counter and you ask the bossman to get things for you.
>>2796721https://trustforlondon.org.uk/data/e-food-desert-index/The goods in a express are more exspensive and of lower quality, this allows them to exist in areas with higher shoplifting
>>2796722>Not the same as Alchol for this reasonthere's plenty of alcohol which is decently pricey on the shelves. you could fill a small bag with £200 of booze easily. but ok, I take your point that maybe if balsamic vinegar is that expensive, it is a target for shoplifters (though you then have to find someone willing you buy your vinegar… seems like just working for a living is easier)
I still think shoplifting is based. If everyone is treated like a criminal, it radicalises people more than if the shops are a high-trust environment. people see cheese in an anti-theft box and think 'man society is fucked', that's what we want to happen.
shoplifting also creates jobs.
>>2796724>The goods in a express are more exspensive and of lower quality, this allows them to exist in areas with higher shopliftingbut have you actually demonstrated that is due to shoplifting and not just due to people having less income and a big store not being profitable?
>>2796725Im with you on here, illegalism is based when you dont get caught.
>>2796727exactly. i've been nicking little bits and pieces for years and never even been stopped. i see it as my way of fighting back against inflation lol
if you get stupid and stuff bags full of stolen shit, obviously you will get caught eventually. they call it the 'five finger discount' and not the 'five finger pay nothing' for a reason
>>2796730I knew a guy who worked as a chef, he would get given a few hundred to go get the kitchens supplies every day before the shift started. He would goto the nearest tescos and run up every avocado they needed that day as a potato and pocket the difference.
He was making like 1k extra a month doing this.
>>2796723And then they leave/fewer shops are replaced. Also prevents the opening of any local buisness. Only nationals can compete and take the cost.
>>2796725>it radicalises people more than if the shops are a high-trust environment. people see cheese in an anti-theft box and think 'man society is fucked'Radicalises people against lumpen not capital. Also this is infantile stance, no actual party of the working class could take up the stance, they want society to be worse.
>shoplifting also creates jobs.False, shops close on the high street, moves to online selling.
>>2796726Irrelevant point. Shops do close due to shoplifting, lower competion local area, leads to only predaotry vendors remaining
>>2796727False and antisocial
>>2796728This was to fund a workers party, not to fund a drug habit
>>2796732Stalin stole from the imperial bank of Russia, and made comment on it as part of debates on the topic. He actually did justify it by it being a state instution rather than a local mom and pop bank.
>>2796733But he can only get away with if so few people are doing it
the fact that it becomes more common is bad for all people
>>2796736>And then they leave/fewer shops are replaced. Also prevents the opening of any local buisness. Only nationals can compete and take the cost.I think the movement towards fewer people owning things is actually progressive for the purposes of revolution. Its much easier to agitate people against one corporate entity than it is against the 'my mum owns a shop dont take it away' crowd.
>This was to fund a workers party, not to fund a drug habitDrug habit today, vanguard tomorrow. What else are the drug addicts of today but the peasants of Mao?
>>2796513
britain should wage a revolutionary war against the US
>>2796738>What else are the drug addicts of today but the peasants of Mao?They are labour artisocrats proped up in their degenary by the exploitation of the 3rd world through American dept.
>Its much easier to agitate people against one corporate entity than it is against the 'my mum owns a shop dont take it away' crowd.Except theres no real world evidance for this theory. And a workers party cannot run on a mininmal program of making society shit.
>>2796745Yeah its not something to organize around but my focus will continue to be directed at the upper class vs the proles stealing bread
>>2796746>stealing breadlets not start with the sob stories
people nick sweets, not essentials
>>2796746So you admit its just some anti-social preference of yourself and a workers party could not represent that position.
Aka you are just talking nonsence online.
>>2796749I think moralizing over it is class war bullshit.
>>2796748It a slope.
>>2796751Saying it makes society worse and therefore a party of the working class doesn't support it, is just standard Marxism.
>>2796757revolutionary defeatism?
>>2796761Revolutionary defeatism, meant ending ww1 as this would improve the lives of the Russian people. Not comparible. Try again.
>>2796764If you havent noticed we're currently at war with Iran & Russia (and Palestine)
>>2796766Irrelavant point , as stealing from Tesco doesn't do anything to change this.
Revolutionary defeatism meant sabotaging a war effort.
Not just immiserating the people around you.
Also we are proxy supporting not in active war for all three of those.
>>2796769Its semantic, we're doing spy flights for the IOF to get targets and using our airforce to shoot down Iranian missiles.
Lets also mention this is just what we know about our involvement, our government is clearly deeply embedded with Israels military.
It hurts the bottom line and by proxy the tax intake for the government.
>>2796772Its not semantic, Uk involvement in those 3 conflicts is not comparible to Russia in ww1.
It doesn't do that in a meanigful way.
Before you awnser again you must find me a workers party who supported stealing from local shops.
>>2796776The Robin Hood party of Loxley.
In seriousness I already agreed that it wasnt something thats worth organizing around, however I also just dont think it matters at all. Want to fix shoplifting? Smash neo-liberalism.
>>2796778No its not just something you can't organise around, its activly destructive and an impedemant to the creation of a workers party for marxist to publicly express such opinions as you are doing on this forum.
Your not getting out of this bind by crying off.
>>2796785Try and make the connection between our government getting involved in 3 forever wars over the last decade and the uptick of shoplifting, you might find yourself engaging in materialism. Lastly expressing this attitude is, by and for the most part holding onto a line that doesnt engage in class based moral panics that you're putting forward.
>>2796787>Try and make the connection between our government getting involved in 3 forever wars over the last decade and the uptick of shoplifting, you might find yourself engaging in materialism. Irrelevant. We are discussing a political line
not social phenomena. This is a last dying bit of cope and goalpost shifting on your part
>Lastly expressing this attitude is, by and for the most part holding onto a line that doesnt engage in class based moral panics that you're putting forward.False no workers party has ever held this line. Its not a class based moral panic, no class benefits from shoplifting.
>>2796789I think the current public mood on shoplifting is 100% being directed and manipulated by the media to create a moral panic that antagonizes people against the underclass. You can buy into this and further alienate them or you can see through it.
Its why Reform are making moves at the moment and why the right are so strong, they can appeal directly to these people. If not you then it will be Nigel, remember that.
>Irrelevant. We are discussing a political lineYou seem unable to notice i've already agreed with you
>>2796791>I think the current public mood on shoplifting is 100% being directed and manipulated by the media to create a moral panic that antagonizes people against the underclass. You can buy into this and further alienate them or you can see through it.False there is no community on earth with widespread support of shoplifting
Also I'm not amplifying any narrative, just holding the obvious marxist line. In addition going against your retardation of publicly promoting anti-soicial stealing as a marxist opnion on a public website.
>You seem unable to notice i've already agreed with you Yes because I'm obviously correct.
Nooooooo don't steal from shops what would le Marx think
>>2796797This is a marxist website. Yes I care what Karl Marx would think.
>>2796795You're right, no marxist has ever engaged in crime against a bougie state. All marxists should follow the law TO THE LETTER.
>>2796799“Steal what’s already been stolen!” (“Грабуй награбоване!”).
>>2796735>Radicalises people against lumpen not capital. Also this is infantile stance, no actual party of the working class could take up the stance, they want society to be worse.We're happy to get meat and cheese discount led at the pub, you don't speak for the working class.
>>2796799Your going round in circles again, you've already been debunked on this point and are now coping. supporting Anti-social crime is different than so called 'crime' in the context of a revolution. Even if there was no law or state to enforece 'crime' , you wouldn't support stealing.
>>2796801This phrase was used in 1918 in the contact of procuring goods during the civil war for the revolution, not supporting lumpen stealing from local shops.
You are just grabbing for shit now
>>2796802No people are not (just look at any polling on this issue) , and if this is such a popular stance, please find my any polition who campaigned succesfull on it.
>>2796806Il make it simple, stealing from the upper class is good, stealing from a nationalized shop would be bad.
>>2796806>if this is such a popular stance, please find my any polition who campaigned succesfull on iti guess we should all become neolibs then so we can be 'electable'. look obviously a mainstream political party can't run on 'legalise shoplifting' but we're among friends here, we can be honest.
>>2796791exactly. we can't tail the reactionary mood of the moment
When a black person is killed or stabbed its in a tiny paper and not reported anywhere nationally. People forget it immediately and move on attributing nothing special to it.
When a Jewish person is hurt in a crime it's an international incident, Palestine activist are attacked non stop, politicians speak out, organizations put out statements and demands for new laws are made even if it is a singular person. Literally any crime done that a Jewish person is involved. It's like it's impossible for a Jewish person to experience crime while every other group can
>denouncing shoplifting as a moral vice when half the country languishes from spiralling living costs
A true socialist
>>2796822But wasn't the recent incident labeled as terrorism?
There was also a racially-aggravated rape against a sikh woman which recently got national exposure. So, being stabbed also has its particular context.
>>2796807False and your now coping , after already admiting defeat. As I already demonstrated and you conceded earlier, anti-social stealing has a deliterous effect on the working class. And this is why no workers party has ever supported it.
>>2796824Shoplifting increases prices not reduces them, another tax on the working class
>>2796829Damn you really got me with that AI slop
>>2796829Almost as if we should do away with the price system altogether
2 jews got shoah'd today and you are arguing about shoplifting
>>2796840Obviously they got reincarnated
>>2796845>The Green party is dangerousTop fucking kek
>>2796845>"I declare proudly I'm a Zionist"I declare proudly I'd see you hang
>>2796848How much stronger are the Greens in UK compared to the US?
They don't even have minor party status here, and have only ever had it in clean election states like Minnesota and Vermont.
Also are there wackos in the Green party that are like anti-vaxx and stuff?
>>2796853They're currently riding a high off the back end of a Labour fallout and recently won a symbolic council election with one of their candidates Hannah Spencer
Honestly their strength all depends on how much of an inroad the party can make into Labour's present electoral share; they're looking at sweeping up in a couple of key London councils right now.
Whether their current momentum will translate into anything other than a protest vote and lead to Parliamentary success remains to be seen. It is safe to say however that as Labour fall, the Greens rise
10 year gilt (bond) yield has risen above 5%
Recession is on the way
>>2796829the revolutionary line, by which you mean, being a deranged gammon that wants to lynch anyone who doesnt conform
>>2797406Kind of makes it hard to be sympathetic to people's grocery price woes when what they talk about is chips and steaks.
>>2797411In the richest country on earth, it shouldnt be such a hastle. And mind you, the yanks don't have VAT or much food regulation either, so they are getting the lowest price possible, and its shambolic.
>Somalian schizo stabs jews
<pro Palestine protesters are to blame!
>>2797488I've even seen the green party blamed, as well.
>>2797490reddit was full of hysteria with entire threads filled with 'jewish' people blaming Zach for this personally.
ss fuhrer PolanSSKKKi is personally responsible for every jew killed in the second shoah currently happening
>>2797488>>2797490I'm honestly pissed off about how much we have to hear about crimes against Jewish people when there's way more against Muslims and nobody cares
>>2797490>>2797497Its always the same few accounts always who keep their profiles private. Curious.
>>2796828I mean I saw the story yeah but is the PM commenting on how disgusting and terroristic it is? Obviously not
>>2797538I mean honestly I think it might be time to start talking about Jewish overrepresentation in positions of power/influence. Yes shills will cry and say it's anti semitism but they do that anyway. I don't hate Jews but why should they have such hugely outsized representation?
>>2797546Where do Jews have overrepresentation in power?
>>2797547Where? Politics, media, finance, big business… We literally have a Jewish PM and the leader of the non fascist opposition is Jewish. These people are like 0.2% of the population
>>2797546more 👏🏻 goy 👏🏻ceos 👏🏻
>>2797549Obviously this wouldn't fix capitalism but at least we might be able to have some kind of social/economic progress without everything held hostage by one deranged tiny cultural minority.
Like literally I don't know what to say, I know I'm sounding anti semitic but I don't know how else to feel. Yeah it's not all Jews but 80% of them go along with it.
>>2797553And I know we're supposed to say 'it's Zionists' not "Jews" but maybe it's just time to start telling the truth. The Jewish community acts as an ethnic cartel monopolising power for themselves, it's not purely about Israel
>>2797548>Politics, media, finance, big businessCan you give examples, please?
>Jewish PMNo - but his wife is Jewish ('course, no one complained when Boris Johnson became a Catholic to appease his wife, thereby breaking the protestant stronghold in the House of Commons, later followed by Rishi Sunak. Funny, 'cause Blair was partly Catholic as well, and people complain about him the most).
>Zack PolanskiI presume you are talking about the Greens; Zack Polanski is not currently an MP, so has no constitutional power, only popularity.
>0.2%Apparently, its 0.5% or 1 in 200 people; 50% of which live in London.
>>2797559Judaism is matrilineal. Based on his behaviour I think it's totally fair to say he's Jewish
>>2797556So what do you propose to be the "solution" to this Jewish Question?
>>2797560His wife didn't give birth to him…
>>2797561Maybe ethnic/religious quotas on positions of power, I don't know. Maybe we need some kind of Northern Ireland power sharing agreement.
>>2797553jews, jewishness, and antisemitism smears are merely a cover for the operation of capital and imperialism. at this point there's nothing to hold hostage because nobody outside of upper-middle class media ragebait readers gives a fuck about these allegations anymore. the only place where it actually matters is israel, which is where jewish ethnonationalism is a material and enforced reality. i don't think it matters that much because if the ruling class didn't use jews as the patsy, much in the vein of medieval kings, they'd accuse you of being transphobic for not liking gay flag lockheed missile or anti-christian or whatever else. it's just how it goes, idpol always gets deployed like this
>>2797562I dunno, I wasn't interested in the whining about Jews but Starmer being born in very unusual circumstances is a theory with legs. Why else would he keep trying to reassure you that his father, who was a toolmaker, was his toolmaker father?
>>2797563tbh we just need to remove isreal, americas and the IDFs infulence on london politics.
the issue is that starmer has lunch with IDF generals every week.
>>2797562His wife is Jewish, his kids are Jewish, he is Jewish or as close as makes no difference.
>>2797566Idk if we can really put it just down to Israel though. Jews have had outsized influence in the UK for centuries
>>2797563So we tally the statistics of the population and divide power evenly? Of course, this also means sharing 50% of power with women, and sacking MPs to make more room for females, blacks, arabs - and only 1 or 2 Jews are permitted, of course.
>>2797568I think if the genocide wasnt ongoing in Gaza and we wherent materially supporting it with military and diplomatic support 90% of this nonsense wouldnt be happening.
>>2797567Okay, so lets go with that. We have Starmer and Polanski as Jews. Is this evidence of a conspiracy?
>>2797564Idk man, the average person is fairly sympathetic to 'Jewish feelings' , they are not a rabid Zionist but they do mostly think "where there's smoke there's fire" and Corbyn and the Greens are at least somewhat antisemitic
>>2797565His dad was a businessman who ordered people to make tools for him; his insistence is to appear more humble than he is.
>>2797569Fine, sounds great to me. Better than the system now anyway.
>>2797573>Corbyn and the Greens are at least somewhat antisemiticHellooooooo JIDF
>>2797571I mean obviously without Israel things would be way better but I just don't think we can make that the full explanation
>>2797578Politics never has a single full explanation, just lots of factors. Its mostly because our government sucks off IOF generals for fun and uses the media as an extension of its foreign policy tools.
>>2797577>>2797576Sorry if you guys are too sheltered to go outside and talk to normies. They mainly believe "well not everything they say about Corbyn/Greens is right but they did have an anti semitism problem (they don't know what this problem actually was but most people love the golden mean fallacy and it makes them feel smart)"
>>2797575Why is it better?
Because Jews are inherently antagonistic to the national interest?
>>2797572I'm just presenting it as one piece of evidence, does anyone seriously deny the influence of the Israel/Jewish lobby?
>>2797581Our current crop of MPs are abysmal, some new blood would surely be at least less bad. Even better if we use sortition or something.
I know I'm not supposed to single them out but it's just how I'm feeling right now, I'm so tired of the constant bullshit spin.
>>2797574I dunno, I think maybe his wife gave birth to him (having married him before his birth) in some kind of unholy circumstances. Perhaps his father was actually the devil and the "tools" he made were sins, which he then gave as work for idle hands.
>>2797583Most Zionists are Christian
They willingly support Israel
>>2797587And 95% of jews are also zionists, zionism is bad, it’s the new naziism.
Bbc reporting is cracking me up, apparently jews dont feel supported by the government and Kier Starmer is a traitor
>>2797593Then fucking move, you have the money and the resources
>>2797587Sure but there is a huge network of mostly Jewish elites that enforce Zionism through money, media propaganda, etc etc.
>>2797590Its more like 70%
<First, JPR data from summer 2024 show that 70% of British Jews think that Jews who don’t live in Israel should be free to publicly criticise Israel’s government or its policies. And 76% ‘strongly’ or ‘somewhat’ disapprove of Netanyahu […] At the same time, at least 60% have donated to a charity supporting Israel since 7 October, 65% identify as Zionists, 71% feel a great deal of concern for the lives of Israelis, 77% feel attached to Israel, and 88% regard Israel as the ancestral homeland of the Jewish People. 52% think democracy in Israel is alive and well, 57% think the IDF has operated within the bounds of international law, and 90% think Iran represents a threat to Israel’s existence. […] But it’s more complex still. 54% believe in a two-state solution, but 55% think most Palestinians don’t really want peace. 72% think that pro-Palestinian demonstrations should be permitted in Britain, but 66% would avoid them for fear of their safety as Jews. 66% think students should be free to demonstrate support for Palestinians, but 61% think British universities are unsafe for Jewish students. Overall, 72% of British Jews feel some degree of pride in Israel, but 56% feel some sense of shame. Most feel a bit of bothhttps://www.jpr.org.uk/insights/what-exactly-jewish-majority-view-israel >>2797598Oh my fucking god they’re insufferable
>>2797596Do you think there would be less support if we banned political donations? We saw Farage fuming at the suggestion that BTC donations be banned, 'cause he is a paid puppet. We live in a system of bribery (Johnson was proven to have made dodgy deals, yet was never prosecuted), so a lot of this is also just about money, not ideology (which is why we see "grifters" changing their tune so often).
I cant believe starmer isnt drone striking pro pally supporters in their homes, is he literally Hitler?!?!
Nevermind jewish feeling, I never want to hear about British feelings, you lost your right to sovereignty
>>2797605There are 300,000 British Jews
>>2797598i mean if there was an anglican theocracy or catholic theocracy that functioned similarly to israel, you'd probably see similar numbers
>>2797605Who should rule over us then
>>2797602Sure obviously Jews in politics isn't the only issue with politics. Not the main issue probably either but I do think it is a serious one
>>2797607Israel isn't about religion, its about race
Most Jews are secular
>>2797608Three occupation zones, one chinese, one russian, one American
>>2797611Can't we just be all Chinese, reverse Hong Kong situation
>>2797573People believed it about Corbyn because he was naive enough to think that establishment institutions would reach fair conclusions and that if he just dealt with the issue it would go away. He didn't imagine anyone would make accusations in bad faith, or that the EHRC would say lol lmao to a Tory MP saying the Tories are institutionally islamophobic but then say Labour are institutionally antisemitic. (and, surprise surprise, that transgender people have no rights and that the very concept of institutional racism is a joke, because the EHRC is run by people who do not believe in equalities or in human rights)
Polanski is a different kettle of fish because (a) he's willing to tell people to fuck off (b) everyone involved in taking Corbyn down this way bragged about it, so it no longer makes you sound mental to say it's bollocks, and (c) he's Jewish.
Moreover: Even in 2019 Corbyn did reasonably well with smart people. The people most likely to read a Guardian editorial about his antisemitism went on to vote for him anyway - only Sun reading idiots voted against him. Either antisemitism was a non-issue at the polls, or it only motivated the sort of people who are, ironically, more likely to be antisemitic anyway.
>>2797606There are literally more trans people than british jews yet one is coddled and privileged materially and politically and the other is constantly under threat and slandered by the media
>>2797615Is it also Jews that spread transphobia, do you think?
>>2797614Polanski let the Green conference be wrecked by Zionists to prevent them voting on the "Zionism is racism" bill. He personally is against it so wouldn't be surprised if he was involved in it himself. He's a false idol.
But yes, obviously Corbyn didn't help himself.
>>2797616Many of the Jewish dominated papers are the prime suspects yes
>>2797611you get shot if you try to cross over the lines.
Heres how it will be divided
>>2797613The other option would be occupation zones from every country Britain ever occupied, the borders would look like the Holy Roman Empire
>>2797618Do you think that its possible to separate one's politics from race?
There are surely left-wing and right-wing Jews, no?
>>2797619I can’t wait to get drafted and get killed by either Sinn Fein or Ulster Defense Force
>>2797619The country should be split into the Lidl occupation zone and the Aldi occupation zone
>>2797610if that was true then the troubles would have ended in a united ireland
>>2797621Yes of course it's possible to be a left or right wing Jew but regardless there is huge Jewish solidarity, they help each other get the top jobs and fuck over everyone else. They get the best public services in the UK and special money from the government even though they're the richest ethnic group by far
>>2797625the border crossing is a single iceland that the two leaders of either faction meet at once a year, sometimes defectors try to run through but get taken out by snipers.
25 million for two victims when the train attack had 13 critically injured
>>2797636Jewish isn't even on that list?
>>2797637To add to this 25 million is going to private organisations and not to our public services
>>2797640If they're Ashkenazi, I assume they'd be somewhere under "white"
>>2797628>even though they're the richest ethnic group by farheredi jews study the torah all day they don't even have jobs
>>2797411£22 for mince is mental though that's like my entire weekly shop just for myself.
>>2797645the first ethnically unemployed…
>>2797640>>2797644Yeah the UK classifies jews as a religious group (including a majority of jews themselves). There was a weird fringe zionist movement to try and put down "Jew" under other ethnicity in 2021 but it went nowhere.
>>2797648greenshirts had the funniest clash between aesthetics and ideological content of any group in britain imo.
they look pretty fascist, many of their slogans sound fascist, but their ideology is arts-and-crafts pacifist boyscouts marching around the bank of england demanding they print free money, against the wishes of the guy who came up with the money-printing theory.
they're like the opposite of the CPB.
>>2797658Over 50% of Muslim women are unemployed?
>>2797667Yes. It is a longstanding trend, such as these comments from 2007:
<The most striking finding is the low employment rates among Muslims…Almost 70 per cent of Muslim women are out of employment, compared with 27 per cent among Christian women.https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/65005/html/Here is an ethinic and gendered breakdown of 2022 stats:
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/unemployment-and-economic-inactivity/economic-inactivity/latest/ >>2797649Important to remember average us wages are 64,000 , about double the UK and they pay less tax on that.
>>2797667Their husbands/fathers prolly won't let them
Le traditional roles etc
>>2797697I think thats some of it. Would also be interesting to see this done against number of children. I don't think its usally pratical to work if you have 3/4 plus kids. And I think if you look at non muslim famalies with that number of kids you'd see similar numbers. Large famalies proably more prevelent in that community
>>2797700Non Muslim mothers have kids too. Typically the grandparents would look after them.
>>2797702You have poor reading comprehension.
>>2797658Okay but who are all of these buddhist unemployed women???
>>2797695Lets compare (🇺🇲/🇬🇧)
Median gross salary in the US: $62,000
income tax (single): 22%
Net income (single): $48,400
Exchange rate USD/GBP: 0.74
Median net salary US: £35,700
Median gross salary UK: £39,000
Income tax: 20%
Median net salary: £31,600
So then, Americans have a slight increase of net income, yet their groceries are more expensive despite our 20% VAT. We should also see how our public services like transport and healthcare are more efficient and affordable. All in all, the average Btiton is wealthier than the average America. America's "wealth" is simply calculated by the profits of its 1% (30% of total US wealth belongs to 1% of hoiseholds, while this is only 10^ in the UK, showing comparative wealth inequality). So then, we have British supremacy. 🇬🇧😁👍
>>2797711I wonder what comes first: the Buddhism, or unemployment? 😂
>>2797721you forgot national insurance at 8%, which is just income tax by another name. (except you don't pay it as a landlord or pensioner)
I can’t wait until the NHS is fully privatized and absorbed by American health insurance
>>2797740On the counter to this, If I was doing the same job I am right now in the US that im doing here in the UK my salary would go up to 120k instantly, im making 30k.
>>2797734I'm stepping into kiddies bathrooms, not stepping down
>>2797747Sure, but America is only open to specialists, and hostile to the common man. The ethics are interesting, since I recall Canadian NHS workers refusing a higher salary from the government, while in the US, all the best doctors work, but demand the higjest fee. I also found this BBC article on NHS vs US healthcare costs:
<If you look at every penny spent on health by anyone in the country, then the UK spends about half as much on health as the US does. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42950587Looking at further stats, Medicare costs around 350% more in total than the NHS, but only covers around 300% more people - so even the government healthcare in the US is inefficient, and exclusive. This is all just proof that you NEED well-funded public services, or your country will collapse.
>>2797752Yeah I agree with your analysis. Il say with America the floor is much deeper but the ceiling is way higher. It feels here next to impossible to get over 30k outside of London doing non-mangerial or flavour of the month aristocrap shit (y'know like tech/AI bullshit)
>>2797757>the floor is much deeper but the ceiling is way higherYes, precisely, but this is also the scale of wealth inequality, which as I related earlier, can be seen at around a 300% difference (in comparing the household income of the top 1%). So then, people are 300% less equal in the US, I would say - though, of course, we have formalised our own class system, which can cut even deeper.
>>2797560Not for reform Jews, which are the only relevant group in the West.
>>2797657Tbf youth groups at that time just looked like that. They were militant antfascists (and apparently scrapped quite a bit with the communists, although from what i've read it was usually the communists instigating it lol)
head of the met sent Zack Polanski an angry letter for retweeting a post
>>2797932Gulag for everyone in that wretched organisation
>>2797932The Police need to stay off social media!
Bloody heck.
Lib Dems had to pay £250k to a Christian because they deselected him in favour of a secular candidate and he crowdfunded to sue them
>Among the “protected beliefs” referred to in Mr Campanale’s legal claim are the belief that “marriage is exclusively the union of one man and one woman,” and that “abortion is wrong.”
What, you thought you were allowed to make being a liberal a requirement to be elected as a Liberal Democrat? Maybe in a country with freedom of association, but not here. This is Britain, where if you won't be my friend I'll sue you.
Just rename this shithole to the United jewdom and execute everyone who thinks murdering Palestinian babies is wrong already
>>2792149a pomeranian or bichon frisee can't give you a lifelong injury
>>2797961You can surely come up withe a better pun than that.
The ZOGnited TERFdom is a shithole and I want out!!!
>>2798066>Corbyn behind the masklmao
>>2798066Bet they all have sons and husbands who've served in the IDF
Tired of all this jew shut on the BBC.
This fucking crank is saying on newsnight how foreign agents are killing Jews o our streets.
Fucking beyond me how this is taken seriously. As far as I'm concerned its a boy who cried wolf situation with this lot… need to stop coming crying to all of us like we're supposed to give a shit about these zionist genocidal freaks. Tiresome.
Tory representative on QT saying anti-genocide protest should be illegal because think of the Jews.
Why is it anti-semitic to oppose genocide?
>>2797657>>2797648I made a post about the Kibbo Kift and Greenshirts a few threads back they were pretty wacky and based.
UBI, eco-socialist, pacifist political ideology + Hobbit ass looking scouting and crafting organisation + occult / neopagan rituals + an artistic and fashion sense that seems very oddly fascist-y today + throwing bricks at Downing Street and the Far Right
Crazy that they were an actually big political force from the 1920s-50s but have been totally memory holed today.
>>2798173Sheer opportunism. It's laughable that antisemitism is being used as a cudgel to silence popular dissent as the end result is a culture of open and explicit censorship.
All political idealism has been vacuated as the politik of British democracy is reduced to a calculus grounded in nothing more than profit. They literally cannot see the wickerman they are building right before their eyes
>>2798173>>2798192To add to this: British foreign policy is a diktat of NATO and its subservience to the prevailing order as part of the G7 and its ambit as an imperial power. State figures along with foreign lobbies literally cannot brook concessions from the administration to the general voter, which is why none of them have balked under the mounting pressure of maintaining the political double think necessary to continue supporting Israel despite its escalating war crimes
Nobody points this out, but there is a reckoning to be had with regard to the Home Office's use of terror charges against the Palestinian activists. It is such a clear case of a failure in the separation of powers and will be the loadstone by which a Reform government once in power will take to using in further suffocating all opposition to both the genocide and all military activity by the British state.
>>2798207Why is he canvassing a bunch of primary school children?
>>2798210If you think it is bad now, wait until you can no longer discuss it openly in debate and the Palestinian question is smothered by a British nationalist one in which Israel's right to self determination is held as one identical to Britain's
>>2798212It's part of secondary school politics class or something to go attend political debates etc..
>>2798219That's pretty cool. I had Ed Milibands' wife give a speech on politics when I was at Sixth Form back in 2015. I can't remember a word of it.
>>2798212Probs a nonce.
Also he's clearly white and trying to gaslight them.
>>2798224I had my local MP Dawn Primelero turn up, we go onto a big row about transport privatisation because she was making a competition argument but there's famously only ine bus company in this city.
My brother was doing house moving and pissed all on her carpet, so that was nice.
What I always find interesting is how people are so willing to admit that islamophobia comes largely from Muslims tolerating extremism within their communities, imams etc, and the overall shitty views muslims hold but then you bring up British Jewish orgs and Jewish figures are like all psychotic genocidal freaks who basically spend every waking moment jerking off to dead Palestinian kids on Twitter while simultaneously claiming dead Palestinians are blood libel against Jews and you get instantly dogpilled of another insta permaban from plebbit.
I mean read rukpol or ruk right now, swaths of "what do UK Jews have to do with Israel?" Meanwhile every Jewish org and 90℅ of the community politically openly act as a fifth column for a foreign state.
I have no problem calling out shitlam and the lefts tolerance of that godawful religion and community is an albotross around the lefts neck that can only end in tears (Muslims are fanatically pro hustle business culture BTW) but I'm sick of the rank hypocrisy here , especially as Jews can just outsource their terroristic violence through establishment condoned violence (IDF, settlers, British government support of genocide).
>>2798396So, what is the final solution to the Jewish Question you suggest?
>>2798532Stop tolerating bad faith religious bullshit or religious biases as protected.
UK needs to codify secular views and rights and freedom of speech and stop trying to appeal and pander to every minority group, minority communities especially religious ones should adapt to UK social and cultural norms, not vice versa.
Sanction the shit out of Israel, hold Jewish orgs and charities to account for their brazen stomping all over charities law and international law. Ban British people from serving in foreign militaries, enquiry into Israeli influence in the UK.
The left needs to stop its retarded love affair with Muslims as well, Muslims are only aligned with the left to ladder climb into establishment positions where they pretty much stab the left in the back. The only thing Muslims align with the left on is welfarism (much of the community live in social housing while doing cash side hustles) and Gaza.
The fact were basically back to seditious libel laws over Jewish feelings is insane, especially when the Jewish community have clearly weaponized their position to act as a fifth column and have the UK support Genocide. We also went though a decade of idiotically tolerating islamists in the 2010s to the point you had ex Muslim women feminists hounded out from speaking as the left marched hand in hand with literal islamists who would a few years later run off and join ISIS.
>>2798553We have a secular government, we just designate the protected characteristics of people through the EA2010. Both the left and right complain about this statute, so maybe that can be scrapped.
>>2798559We need more robust freedom of speech laws along with more robust foreign influence laws.
A part needs to be cultural as well, Religious tolerance just needs to be wound back massively, people should be free to practice their religion, not dictate that their feelings and biases are protected and any criticism of them is a hate incident.
Scrap the bullshit Antisemitism definition as well, there is no other definition for other religions, why do Jews get a special definition that ties criticism of Israel or Zionism as a hate crime?
The left grew a backbone finally against Jewish bad faith bullshit, but not against Muslim shit yet, both Muslims and Jews should have their feet held to the fire for their shitty terroristic views and behaviour like how noone tolerates bullshit from Christian nutters these days.
This is why I lament no serious religious critical movement came out of New Atheism. It's honestly needed more than ever. Our rights are quite literally being torn away on behalf of religious feelings as we speak. Starmer has vowed to crack down on pro-Palestine protests, we're basically ZOG at this point because Jews have successfully weaponized their biases as protected.
>>2798563The issue is that both Islam and Judaism are racialised, the same way homosexuality and transsexualism are racialised (e.g. "born this way"). I take a leaf out of the book of Richard Hanania on this topic, that civil rights law in the 60s (e.g. Race Relations Act) gave the structure of protected characteristics, leading to the end of the freedom of association and freedom of speech, since now people are protected from discrimination. It is certainly an American import, since in the US, they had positive laws of discrimination, such as Jim Crow, while we have never formalised segregation, so its silly to have the same conditions of a contrived "integration" (when of course, communities are most segregated today, in their particularity, as opposed to yesterday). Now, this is not an advocacy for a license to be racist, but is it effective to try and force people to be anti-racist?
Discrimination laws then follow the same formula of comparing struggles to racial liberation, but there are two aspects to consider; the universal and particular. All civil law is minoritarian in character (principally, for the protection of the ruling class), but as it is said, the individual is the smallest minority, yet also the universal category, and so we can only have maximum freedom by the maximum freedom of individuals. This is the basic American argument; why is segregation bad? Because it limits the freedoms of the individual; if two people of different races want to freely associate, why ought the government, community or family intervene? So then, the fixture is the abolition of *positive* discrimination, but this leaves negative discrimination, which is simply a fact of life - making it illegal to be racist doesn't reduce racism; only genuine human relationships can mediate differences. This is why integration is good, but only where it is properly done.
If a business doesn't want to serve a certain race, it is surely losing money, and so faces the consequences of its own decisions; like how if a bakery doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding, it creates its own loss. So then, if we forced people to serve those they didn't want to, we come into a strange place. What is universal therefore must pertain to *public* institutions, and indeed, the public space, but what is private is particular.
I have previously discussed the British defense of African-Americans during WW2, in the Battle of Bamber Bridge, where we had no concept of segregation and racial hierarchy, and so revolted against the yanks for their ill-treatment of fellow soldiers. So there is a difference between the US and UK in our fairness.
>>2798570>So then, if we forced people to serve those they didn't want to, we come into a strange place. I have also come to this view but with one sneaky caveat: I would not agree circa 2000. The internet makes it easier to coordinate social pressure campaigns against reactionaries. Being an underlying optimist, I like to imagine that such campaigns are more likely to (on balance) favor the "just don't be a bastard" position.
(e.g. if you refuse to serve gays, you'll be called a prick until you relent, ideally feeling bad about it but if you're only doing it out of fear for the bottom line - so be it, but if you refuse to serve nazis, well, nazis calling you a prick should give you a smug sense of moral superiority…)
More generally I would say that there is, perhaps, a role for the law in legislating/illustrating social morality. I will be quite honest and say: I am all for the EA2010's bullshit when it is harassing bigots. It is only now that bigots control the state and and have half exploited dumb ideas in the EA2010 ("protected beliefs" can fuck right off) and half straight-up rewritten it in the courts that I retreat to the position that the free market should be the arbiter of these decisions. (and that the supreme court is another yank import that should be abolished. if your highest court is just going to legislate from the bench, it should be part of the legislature and not the executive.)
>>2798577I agree that civic values and shame can be good things, but I think there is always a difference between law and morality. The idea of not being a dickhead is good, but I think that when you make being a dickhead illegal, you run into problems. Further, as per the HRA1998, Free Expression is still conditioned upon civility:
<Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/I/chapter/9Public "morals" are highlighted here, along with orderliness, yet the freedom to hold any opinion is also granted. Under the terms of morality, I would again simply refer to the freedom of association; there are many types of people in a nation.
>>2798580it's actually a problem that happens in commonwealth countries too, there is nothing gained by large censorship apparatuses beyond resent, you cannot solve racism by simply making it illegal, you have to try and reduce differences on a community basis, if there's tension between groups in say, manchester, the solution isn't to start putting in extremely wide sweeping hate speech laws, the solution is to get the affected to the table and resolve their issues and function as a mediator, while using a law against hate crimes to reduce the excesses of that violence
Let's talk about real important things like turkey dinosaurs going extinct
>>2798605the problem i have with this explanation is that it assumes that groups generally have legitimate grievances, while my view is that for the most part grievances arise as a function of personality which - while in large measure socially determined - is usually only incidentally related to the issue in question.
e.g. most TERFs have never met a trans person, most racists live in white communities, new atheism splintered as soon as its participants realized they'd have more fun as SJWs and anti-SJWs respectively (e.g. their original militant atheism was
only incidentally about religion), and so on.
>>2798617well the thing is that in most cases they do have somewhat legitimate grievances, the examples listed don't really make up the why, only the how, for example TERFism comes out of a form of feminism held mostly by women aged 80-50, one from a long time ago, and the new atheism example doesn't really have anything to do with a community and so on, but if say you had shia muslims and hindus in britain in a dispute against each other, the logical answer is to get them together, or a dispute between communities of relatively different origins, and so on
also the example of new atheism ignores the fact that new atheists only really had in common their atheism and their opposition to the then dominant religious conservative state and its culture, once this began to evaporate in the early 2010s the group broke apart
>>2798396>>2798553>>2798563Too late, jihadis will ACK and stone the leftoids.
>>2798570>The issue is that both Islam and Judaism are racialised, the same way homosexuality and transsexualism are racialised (e.g. "born this way")He makes an interesting point but any actual racial interest groups and demographics get tons of actual privileges while gay or trans get pretty much nothing besides slogans in reality. Like the DEI regime never advantaged gay or trans but it did openly advantage brown people and women, and that is also true for the culture industry with netflix, the BBC and hollywood.
I guess PreP or HRT/some surgeries could count as free gibs/privileges handed by the state but when you take into account the benefactors are a net producer demographic they just get back what they pay in taxes, unless you target black LGBTs in particular who massively underperform compared to their white LGBT or straight black homologues. Also most states make HRT/surgeries almost impossible to get unless you're some serious obsessed autist trying to game the system so that also can go out the window.
>>2798618>for example TERFism comes out of a form of feminism held mostly by women aged 80-50I would also add diasporic brown women from shithole cultures (muslims, hindu etc) to it.
>>2798626They can't even stop themselves from being exterminated by 19yo zionists on haliyah so i'm too worried about their capabilities to be honest. Muslims can't fight, only secular arabs and shias can.
>>2798619Nu-atheism was also a very american phenomenon. Even C. Hitchens and Dawkins were thoroughly culturally American in their critiques of evangelicalism. It's telling how in a time of evangelical dominance in many ways stronger than the 2000s they are all now gigazionists who want to nuke anyone wearing keffiyah.
>>2798636We don't really have a serious christrussian saboteur problem in Europe since WW1 tbh, it's purely residual here. While christianity in the us a very much a living religion.
>>2798642I wouldn't even respond at all, what's the point
Anyways, the papers are as deranged as usual today
>>2798647The ideological state apparatus is out in full force to prevent a green outcome.
>>2798647Its very telling that the Holocaust is only bad to these types because it happened to Jews.
Also how they treat antisemitism as unique, when in reality pretty much all antisemitic rhetoric has been institutionally transferred onto Muslims.
>>2798650Yes; islamophobia is the new antisemitism; nevermind the fact that Arabs are semites themselves.
>>2798636The failure of New Atheism is Dawkins deconstructing Christianity, then complaining that not enough people go to Church to fend off the muzzies.
>>2798642Feminism is just misandry. It has no other politics.
>>2798633While it is true that not all minorities receive the same treatment, the discourse of oppression is the same. The supreme sacrality of race is shown in the fact that you can be trans-gender, yet you cannot be trans-racial; you can crossdress, yet you cannot blackface. Why not? Why is race so special to the politically correct person?
>>2798563Please can you explain to me how Muslims are causing some political/legal issue in this country and need to be cracked down on? Their concerns are pretty much just dismissed by the government. And yes many Muslim MPs/councillors are right wing but so are their constituents by and large. I don't see them imposing themselves on everyone else the way Jews do.
>>2798570You can say that businesses who discriminate will lose money, and maybe in some cases that's true but it's also the case that many raving nutters would love to give their money to a business that hates the people they hate. I really can't see how it is a good thing for society for open discrimination to be allowed. Now of course sometimes these laws can go too far like the libdems getting sued for what candidate they picked, but anyone should be able to go to any shop.
>>2798650Maybe we could learn about how nearly half of the people killed in the Holocaust weren't Jewish. Or way more than half if we include generalplan Ost.
>>2798653My personal explanation for why transgenderism is considered okay by many whereas tranracialism isn't, is because deep down we all know that men and women are fairly equal in society nowadays, whereas races definitely still aren't. Also 'man' and 'woman' are such broad categories that it's honestly hard to gatekeep them whereas races have more identifiable characteristics (at least in the sense that there's way more than two of them so they are less broad).
But yes, I agree that feminism is just misandry in this day and age. Men, on the whole, already have the subordinate position in British society overall.
>>2798660Transracialism is much more accepted than transgenderism though.
Nobody ever assaulted Rachel Dolezal. No wiggers were evicted from their home. No latinx larping as aryan ever got denied a job.
Again every time i see people trying to compare POC with Gay/Trans it just end up being insulting for the latter because not only are the latter actually facing top-down opression and horizontal violence but also they still perform above POC in spite of it, lol.
>>2798663There's 'transracial' people that have gotten kicked of jobs before, look at the queen over here
But there's not that many people that actually go around doing such obvious racemaxxing so yeah obviously discrimination against them is more rare, I'm sure plenty of people have gotten beaten on for "acting white" or "acting black" before though
>>2798664I don't think it's really fair to make this comparison when most LGBT people at least have straight parents/peers/etc, it's not generational oppression
>>2798655>I really can't see how it is a good thing for society for open discrimination to be allowed>anyone should be able to go to any shopSure, but then we must come to terms that we have no freedom of association or expression, except if we mandate these things by certain platforms. For example, the freedom of expression in the US consists of criticisms against the government, while against citizens, one can be sued for libel. Famously, men used to duel if they felt insulted (people still do this today, just informally; we can compare Romeo and Tybalt in Shakespeare to gang violence today, where "disrespect" gets you banged up - we even continue to stab each other, like those olden swordfights). In the original Bill of Rights (1689), Free Speech was limited to Parliament, where a man could freely express himself, while privately, one could not, except by custom, which is as yet, still particular to norms (this is why free speech is an individual right, since the police should be able to protect you from friends or family if you offend them). If we say that norms and custom overrides our rights however, we can only live in fear of consequence. The same is true of association; if one is not free to associate, they are disempowered by collective regulations.
>>2798669Association isn't the same as commerce. A friend group isn't the same as a shop.
>>2798668That makes it worse imo. Hence their very high suicide rate compared to opressed ethnicities. When you're african-american you have your african-american parents, when you're a "deviant" you are alone.
But i'm not primarly concerned so i'll let an actual LGT comment on it.
>>2798670>Association isnt the same as commerceYes it is. It is an interpersonal contraction.
Association doesn't have to be free, but we have to justify its limitations. I have made the argument that the only real, liberal argument is an individualist (i.e. universal) one, but anti-racism can quickly become particularist in orientation. Why is racism bad? Because it unfairly limits the freedoms of individuals.
>>2798660>racial inequalitySo if races were more equal, blackface would become not simply fine, but it would be rude to question it, like crossdressing today?
>>2798676In my opinion yeah basically. Obviously it would take some time for society to catch up to that position. If you only did blackface to make fun of black people it should be considered a little bit offensive I suppose.
Anyways… The Met having a normal one, surely the Zionists have to realise they're pushing things a bit too far at this point?
>>2798672As an actual LGBT I feel that fighting with ethnic minorities over who is more oppressed is exactly what the right wing would want us to do.
>>2798675By that argument you don't have freedom of association if there's any kind of restriction on your business, like not paying people minimum wage is fine because "they freely chose to work for it!". That road leads to misery.
>>2798681Noted. But i wasnt starting an opression olympic btw. I just found the POC/LGBT comparisons mostly nonsensical.
>>2798681>By that argument you don't have freedom of association if there's any kind of restriction on your business, like not paying people minimum wage is fine because "they freely chose to work for it!". That road leads to misery.You miss the contradictory point on this. The capitalist state does not allow the free association of labour with capital, it protects capital from labour, by historically regulating wages and unions. The first labour laws in Britain were the Ordinance and Statute of Labourers (1349-51), which put a cap on wages, since labour was too competitive. This is the old libertarian controversy too; if unions were able to freely negotiate, then eventually, you would see workers possessing their workplaces. So yes, regulation is a restriction of human freedom, but it goes both ways.
>>2798695I don't know if it's the way you're writing but I really can't figure out what your point is. Obviously all laws are restrictions on freedom, but hopefully will improve the 'freedom' or just goodness of society as a whole.
>>2798699The point is that universal freedom is individual freedom, so the only justification of restriction is to increase the freedom of individuals.
i dont get it, why dont they just give testosterone to the red squirrels so they kill all the grey squirrels.
Fox hunting is the funniest shit in the world, fuck stalking and waiting for an animal with a rifle, we’re gonna chase it down with dogs until it passes out from exhaustion to get its throat ripped by dogs, cartoonish.
>>2798692Is his the cunt whinging about the greens in the news today?
>>2798712>i dont get it, why dont they just give testosterone to the red squirrels so they kill all the grey squirrels.Reintroduction of ground-predators helps as greys spend more time on the ground. Like stotes, pine marten
Animal and shit. Ireland and scotland have seen red increases after implementing this.
>>2798709I don't think we should define every social good in the context of freedom, it's asinine. Like calling access to healthcare "freedom to have free healthcare" isn't incorrect but it's weird phrasing and seems like a gimme to right wing freaks who are constantly going on about 'muh freedoms'.
>>2798718Yes, and be also says he wants a 300 officer anti-antisemitism force lol
>>2798731England is too cucked by farmers for that, they'll just keep spending tax money on killing little woodland creatures instead
r.e. "transgender" vs "transracial": while you can socially construct whatever you want, human sexual dimorphism exists while race is both multitudinous and arbitrary. people are reluctant to concede this because it's the starting point for a lot of TERF arguments on the one hand, and a lot of sexist arguments on the other (and often both at once!), but the very purpose of gender affirming care is to rectify the error that caused what was referred to in the ancient recent past as having a "female brain in a male body". the notion is fairly intuitive. it does not take a lot of imagination to think that some kind of hormonal error in the womb could make a person feel this way, in line with some theories of (exclusive) homosexuality. (bisexuality is a different matter - evolution probably doesn't care whether you're straight or bi, but exclusively gay is a conundrum.) it is much more difficult to imagine the developmental pathway that could lead you to think you're of a different race.
ethnographically, it's also fairly common to find transgender/third-gender type stuff which would appear to be an instantiation of the first phenomenon, but while you'll find faʻafafine in Samoa you'd be hard pressed to find a Samoan who thinks she's Japanese.
now, of course, saying that race is more sacred than sex gets at something real in the underlying social phenomenon, but biology is influential insofar as it impacts whether you're pushing the boulder uphill or downhill. if someone invents the transracial therapy from
Die Another Day (2002) then you probably will see transracialism become more of "a thing" and less of a gotcha. (but then, if they can do that why would they stop there? who has time to be anti-transracial when they could just become their fursonas?)
>>2798670association and commerce are intertwined. in the worst case, if there must be regulations, they should only apply to large businesses.
remember that while you're imagining the state intervening to make some dickhead bake a gay cake, the actually-existing state is more interested in intervening to make sure your transgender bookshop doesn't let transwomen use the bathroom.
>>2798743So what is freedom opposed to?
You can only define goodness in terms of freedom.
Having the NHS makes us more free than Americans, yes.
>>2798746>but the very purpose of gender affirming care is to rectify the error that caused what was referred to in the ancient recent past as having a "female brain in a male body". the notion is fairly intuitive.But its a false idea. The only way to justify transsexualism is as something personally chosen, not a medical condition. The same way the "gay gene" is a lie. What is wrong with choosing to be gay? Its a valid lifestyle. The nonsense of treating these things medically, rather than personally, is only in regulating hormones from the market.
>transracialismI am talking about the personal choice to change the colour of the skin, change accent, phenotypes, etc. Not a mere misrecognition.
>>2798744I'm not really a kill them all, revolution baptized in rivers of blood, kind of guy. Having said that, come any just society these guys would be the first shot and cemented down and old mine.
Materialist explanation for britbongers being vocally assmad about transwomen while the rest of the world just moved on?
>>2798746Is the idea of "female brain" a vulgar materialism? How can a brain be female?
>>2798760>while the rest of the world just moved on?And yet here you are, trying to bait
anotherchain about trans people out of leftybritpol.
>>2798760>rest of the world moved onTrump banned transgender people from serving in the military
>>2798757>The same way the "gay gene" is a liei mean is it? it's not necessarily literally a gene you have that makes you gay or whichever, but it is something you are born with, that is universal and entirely out of your control
>>2798764>Born withWell… Some people "become" gay later in life, lets just say.
>>2798761it doesn't have to be literal, just that some brains are attracted more to traits of a specific sex than others
>>2798763As in being vocal about it. Obviously the TTD is ongoing, even though not as spectacularly and dramatically as some would hope.
>>2798765well it's a gray area, most people are basically born gay, and some aren't, it should mostly be observed in that lens
>>2798767Maybe you guys shold just abandon the word "sex" and use "caryotype"
>>2798767In your view, "female" hunters are men while "male" gatherers are women?
>>2798767This is some omegaverse shi
>>2798772no? your example is idiotic since "hunters" also "gathered", does this mean they are non-binary or whatever? obviously not, but the point is more or less that people will gravitate towards these things traits, there's typical traits studied in animals of how female and male animals act
>>2798770it would be less accurate than the already inaccurate term we have
>>2798773no it's just a description of this from how i understand it to be
What is it about trans people that they need to argue and justify and explain their existence while other demographics dont?
>>2798777society despises them for no real good reason
>>2798776Why isnt karyotype more accurate? Isnt it more particular and "granular" or whatever?
>>2798781For idealistic reasons, really. Point one for idelism.
Commies say man and women just mean ones place in division of labour. Whether you are man or a woman depends on the labour you do.
>>2798784more because it goes against established concepts and throws a whole wrench in the engine
>>2798783because of chromosomal disorders? are people with down's syndrome a different sex entirely from everyone else?
>>2798786>sexNo, caryotype. There is no sex.
>>2798789yes and it leads to problems, it's a necessary distinction because otherwise it'd be a useless term
>>2798757>The only way to justify transsexualism is as something personally chosen, not a medical conditionwhy? you assert this as if it's obvious while it's anything but. the framework in which we understand transsexualism is very much a medical one, even if it was papered over a bit in the 2010s to make it sound nicer.
there is no "gay gene" but there's very much a biological element to homosexuality. the birth order effect (the more older brothers you have, the more likely you are to be gay. crucially: this only applies to those with older biological brothers, there's no effect for stepbrothers or adopted siblings.) is well documented.
to slot together what i
think you're saying: if you mean that the only
legitimate way to justify it is non-medical, then that's a view you can hold, but i would repeat my practical point about the boulder: we are primed to be much more accepting of socially abnormal behavior when we're told it has a medical cause, and less tolerant when we believe it to be a choice. (see also: the general move towards increased diagnosis of mental health and developmental disorders by people who have their symptoms, because absent the diagnosis the societal attitude to such a person is "deal with it lol", but there's a fraction more sympathy if you can justify it with a condition.)
>>2798761the framing is oversimplified and in quotes. all popular discussion of science is "vulgar", that doesn't mean someone isn't getting at a real underlying phenomenon when they describe it in that way. do you say "my tooth hurts" or do you say "i've got irreversible pulpitis thanks to mesial occlusal cavities on upper right 3"?
>>2798765did they become exclusively homosexual, or bisexual? ("bisexual but chooses not to sleep with women for social reasons" is still bisexual for these purposes.)
>>2798772nothing so boring or cliche.
>>2798790Its only useless because society isnt built around that. You are unironically defending heteronormative architecture of society.
>>2798793"defending it" doesn't really matter, it's like gender, something which once created can't really be abolished, but it can be transformed
>its another people arguing over trans people edition
can we just fucking nuke this shit island
>>2798792>choiceBut there is no free will.
>>2798802there can be no free will yet simultaneously you can still make choices
Transness is not a medical condition though
>>2798806What are you saying?
>>2798792>why?Because if youre not following the "truscum" line, you are seen as a pretender, and so invalidated in your own identity. Basically, why do you require gender dysphoria to be transgender? If I say I am a woman today and man tomorrow, does this need a legal intervention?
>we are primed to be much more accepting of socially abnormal behavior when we're told it has a medical causeYes, which is a conservative, illiberal situation.
We end up basically see queer people as disabled, so we have to condescend them. That's how most treat trans people; as someone utterly broken by their mental affliction and so who are medically treated by a variety of Frankensteinian operations (despite the fact that the large majority of trans people dont get surgery).
>>2798809to say, you're a pedant and a loser?
>>2798784I once saw a good post about how idealists often become hostile to the
thing itself for tainting the ideal.
e.g. British nationalists
fucking hate Britain, they hate the Britain that is here and now far more than even the most committed communist, far more even than all of Britain's enemies… because it doesn't live up to the lovely confabulation of empire, nation state, and Thatcher wank fantasy that they've got in their head.
Meanwhile more than a few self-proclaimed communists and socialists hate the actually existing working class, not as you might imagine (by turning their back on the miners to celebrate gays and muslims and what have you) but the very opposite: because they're pining for that idealized, imagined working class to come back and drive away these annoying minorities and women with dyed hair and all the rest of them.
>>2798813What does this have to do with anything?
How is transness a medical condition? Its like saying being alive is medical condition, so stupid.
>>2798816what does you saying this, have to do with the original statement? the answer would be nothing except for your pseud answer
>>2798822>pseudIn an anonymous imageboard? How does that work?
>>2798815I would rather say that "fantasy" is counterposed to "ideal", since an abstraction is real, while a fantasy is unreal. Similarly, ideas exist in Reason, while fantasies exist in the imagination. So, what is ideal is that which is most real, while what is most fantastic is unreal.
>>2798824in a non-statement? how does that work?
>>2798821Gender Dysphoria is typically seen as the medical condition, which if diagnosed, allows one to get HRT through the NHS.
>>2798828Gender dysphoria is not transgenderism
>>2798830Yes, I agree, but they are often synonymised; e.g. "I am trans" often means "I am dysphoric" and vice versa.
>>2798834>how do you know that ur trans?<i dont like my gender; i want to be another genderor
<i am my gender in another gender's body >>2798837Thats not what trans means. You can still live miserably while not being trans.
>>2798838how about you define your terms instead of posting like a massive fucking prick and leaving other people to try to divine what the fuck you're trying to say when you wave a floating signifier around.
>>2798838Yes, but I am saying that the two are often synonymised, not that they are synonymous in themselves.
>>2798812The frankenstinian surgery is the only important part for me, I don't give a fuck about "queer" culture or pronouns, just fixing my body.
>>2798841>define termsBut thats idealism. I will wait for scientists. The communist ones, not bourgeois ones. Fuck you.
>>2798843Ah he's already bucked
GG Polanski
The trans question can only be solved in communism.
>>2798849functionally equivalent to saying it's irresolvable
>>2798851Not in your lifetime perhaps, bitch and moan about it
>>2798843Lol what a little bitch
>>2798843i mean he never stood a chance anyway. too weird looking, too jewish, gay and now evidently a melt. it's laughable that this is the best the mainstream british left has to offer.
>>2798861it's the best that 2019 lib dems (that attacked corbyn for being anti semitic) have to offer
>>2798796>can we just fucking nuke this shit islandIts always americans starting this shit without fail. You can usually tell by their spelling.
>>2799069I am from the UK, I am just retarded at spelling.
Unlimited nukes on England.
>>2799157Loads of them agree with him
>>2798812I had surgery on the NHS a decade ago. Suppose it might seem "frankensteinian" to some, but it helped with my dysphoria. My life's still a mess due to experiencing domestic abuse, workplace discrimination, and homelessness several times but I can wear a t-shirt, jeans, and no makeup and nobody knows I was assigned male at birth.
I really just wish folk would leave us alone. I've only ever wanted to live a normal life, despite "being trans".
I also had surgery on the NHS 6 years ago and they fucked it up leaving me with life long chronic pain and health complications which despite dozens of GP and hospital appointments they're either clueless, incompetent or unwilling to fix :)
>>2799160It's real? Lmfao
>>2799396she was flirting with mandem
THREE PEOPLE WERE STABBED AND ONE WAS MUSLIM!?
HOOOOOOLLLLYYY FUUUUCK HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The British media and Government are just ridiculous at this point, the BBC article still is "Man charged for stabbing 2 Jews in Golders Green" when in reality he was charged for 3 Stabbings LMFAO.
Look being a fedora tipping Commie, I have no love for Islam, but this is just brazen Islamophobia, they are just erasing one victim purely because he's a Muslim.
>>2798843He should never apologize, but what he said was initially fucking retarded bullshit and something I've complained about here for a long time, the left's fucking reactionary bullshit of ALWAYS siding with psychotic Lumpens against community safety. Same shit with Chris Kaba, or Grooming Gangs, or Jordan Neeley etc. Blanket ACAB anarkiddie views are always stupid bullshit, especially when British police are hilariously limp wristed pussies. I literally saw a cop start crying and run away when teenagers banted her too hard a few years back.
>>2799599Can you link the info on there being 3 victins, please?
>>2799601Hmm, very interesting.
So was he just a schizo and the media are trying to politicise it?
>>2799602I mean, obviously still an antisemitic attack, but the first stabbing doesn't fit the narrative they want to create that this was caused by pro-palestine advocacy and marches.
He was a schizo and I wouldn't be surprised if coked out of his mind and had already thought he had murdered someone, a Muslim.
>>2799599>what he said was initially fucking retarded bullshitbro he was on the ground, had been tazered already, and they were repeatedly kicking him in the head. it shouldn't matter if someone is a criminal, the police shouldn't be allowed to just batter them for no reason
>>2799141fuck the people who put these beeps, it's unlistenable
i wanna see a freakout not 'beep beep beep'
>>2799606>had already thought he had murdered someone, a Muslim.Not sure if this would have significance in terms of labeling the attack on the Muslim man as a terrorist incident, but it does seem to be reported the man knew the attacker for years - rather than an attack on a stranger.
This doesn't take away from the fact the media are seemingly doing their best to avoid publicising that the Muslim man was attacked.
>>2798636>Nu-atheism was also a very american phenomenon. Even C. Hitchens and Dawkins were thoroughly culturally American in their critiques of evangelicalism.That's interesting and I think you're probably right. Christopher Hitchens moved to the U.S. in the 1980s iirc. He wrote for The Nation then which is a longstanding progressive American magazine. Bhaskar Sunkara, the former editor of Jacobin, runs it now.
>It's telling how in a time of evangelical dominance in many ways stronger than the 2000s they are all now gigazionists who want to nuke anyone wearing keffiyah.Douglas Murray was never a "new atheist" but he seems like the closest example of a British pundit who is mimicking Hitchens' style and filling in that lane, but he's also just right wing and pro-Israel. I listened to an interview with him and was like, oh, he's doing Hitchens' bit (sort of), like a very deliberate copying of the style and even some of the exact same tropes that Hitchens would use. Very heavy on style.
Hitchens never supported Israel though and he thought Zionism was dumb. Hitchens had been in the International Socialists (the Cliffites) for a period in the 1970s which turned into the SWP in 1977.
Murray also lives in the U.S. now I think.
>>2799613Honestly I think him being booted in the skull was justified and not really what should be the focus here.
Zach was right to question it, but the police where right to kick the fuck out of someone who just murdered 3 people and was holding a knife, even if on the floor.
Its the medias response and framing of this, plus Keir trying to ban protests on Palestine all together that is the concerning thing here, keep your eyes open.
UK media has now gone fully "the Greens are anti-Semites". Exactly the same as what they did to Corbyn.
Will it work for the media again, do you think?
>>2799359Sorry to hear but that can be the case for any surgery. I had no issues with it, but the NHS is shit with anything other than emergency medicine, ask anybody else with a disability or chronic pain how they get treated
>The Scottish Housing Regulator has today said Glasgow City Council and the City of Edinburgh Council are experiencing ‘systemic failure’ and routinely breaking the law, while a further nine are at an imminent risk of failure
Anyone on the left want to talk about how it's not only gentrification and average rents rising by 44% since the pandemic that have contributed, but that Glasgow is a "dispersal city" and prioritises giving social housing to immigrants over people who were born there escaping domestic abuse? Anyone want to address the culture of working / underclass families kicking their children out when they age out of getting child benefits? Or how 49% of homeless people in Glasgow are disabled people who have unmet support needs and inadequate healthcare?
>>2799646>Hitchens had been in the International Socialists (the Cliffites) for a period in the 1970s which turned into the SWP in 1977.Yeah but he was still a neocon, he supported the invasions of iraq & afghanistan wholeheartedly ("They say that Bush wanted to build a pipeline in Afghanistan well I think Afghanistan could use another pipeline!"). I think he would have succumbed to cultural pressure if he had lived today.
>>2799690Every council is corrupt, which is wby systems of local government need to be massicely reformed
What's wrong with people who work for the NHS? Why are nurses all psychopaths? Why are GPs like that? Does suffering make them horny?
>>2799694What do they gain from forcing people who grew up there to leave? I'd understand if it was all just remote workers moving up from London for slightly cheaper rent who are paying high council tax band rates, but what do they gain from putting people who don't work and can't speak English in social housing? I wouldn't move to China without learning Mandarin and finding a job beforehand, even if I want to because it's shit here
>>2799699lanlords making profit from government contracts by housing asylum seekers
>>2799699Subsidies like housing benefit (if you are someone at risk or unemployed in social housing) makes profit for estate agents, as
>>2799702 says, and you also get more council tax opportunities.
>>2799699As far as housing asylum seekers, the government pays people contracts to house them, like the hotels. If there wasn't an economic incentive, I doubt sheer humanism would motivate things. Here is a BBC article highlighting a deal earning over £180M for accomodation:
<A company providing accommodation to asylum seekers has made nearly £187m in profits since being awarded lucrative government contracts, despite allegations of "terrible" conditions at the hotels it uses.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9r5m74de8o >>2799702>>2799705I get that, but there are homeless locals in the same boat, disabled people on the streets getting refused even temporary accommodation. People who want to work but nobody will hire them due to disability, a lot of them well educated because Scotland has free higher education. Homelessness points system prioritises asylum seekers over those people.
I know people like that who only got out of it by moving to the middle of nowhere because the private rents were cheaper, then they're stuck out there on the dole with nobody they know nearby, and no work opportunities
>>2799708If it was profitable to house the homeless, it probably would have been done.
>>2799710I've been knicking shite from the supermarket and giving it to a homeless guy called Eric, reckon I can build an army and sort this out in a week if I can keep it up
>>2791817https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/may/01/man-charged-after-car-bomb-explosion-at-police-station-in-northern-irelandThey got the New IRA guy who tried to blow up those cops.
They're getting more active recently, earlier in april they tried to a threaten a delivery driver into delivering a bomb.
>>2799712I've given a homeless fella a roof over his head before, where he slept on my couch, and I rung up the council to get him somewhere more permanent, and what you learn is that some people are just dysfunctional and couldnt keep a job even if you gave them one - they need massive psychological treatment to fight their addictions. Its not just a housing condition, but a spiritual condition.
>>2798845Hope you never end up like me and be truscum for years, have surgery then get into a relationship with a cis man who abuses you, then get refused accommodation or help from every DV charity despite passing and having a GRC, then have to sleep rough for nine months until you finally get real material help from the "queer culture" because literally no cis person wants to help a homeless transhumanist with no familial support unless you suck them off
Starting to think there isn't a single cis person on leftybritpol at all…
>>2799715Some people can't keep a job even if you gave them one because they have disabilities and this country has such a deeply entrenched eugenic culture that even people on "the left" buy into it
>>2799659> the police where right to kick the fuck out of someone who just murdered 3 people and was holding a knife, even if on the floor.how? he obviously was not a threat at that point. They were yelling for him to drop the knife, but they just tazed him, are they so dumb they dont know you clench up when you get electrocuted?
also, you got psyopped, nobody died lol.
>>2799676yes it will, because Polanski is weak like Corbyn. And was calling himself a proud zionist only 6-7 years ago.
>>2799690proofs???
>>2799691yeah he would absolutely be a zionist today, even if maybe not a full throated shill, he would be like 'well both sides are bad, but at least israel is more civilised and western'
>>2799695burnout. they are left to take the brunt of the cuts and the anger from the masses and they end up thinking the masses are wrong and being unreasonable for being upset at them.
>>2799708homelessness system definitely doesnt prioritise asylum seekers, at least not in england, you literally can't be classed as 'homeless' if you're an asylum seeker and are ineligible for supported/temporary accomodation
>>2799715i mean sure of course, most homeless people have big problems, but not all of them and anyway that shouldn't matter.
>>2799717no
>>2799717Does It Offend You, Yeah?
"The English working class will never accomplish anything" - Karl Marx
>>2799718I honestly think most people could do some kind of labour even if they're disabled/mentally ill/etc but they have no chance at keeping one in our current culture of 'professionalism' where you have to be a dancing monkey to get/keep a job.
>>2799720No, it makes perfect sense. People from marginalized groups and excluded from society are more likely to end up politically aware.
>>2791817https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1l2gnvd0lgoWhy can't the New IRA be competent and blow up that bitch instead of whatever crap their doing ?
>>2799719Might not be the case in England but Glasgow in particular is a "dispersal city" and over half of homelessness accommodation in the city is occupied by asylum seekers. It's led to a situation where the council are now failing consistently in their legal obligation to provide temporary accommodation to locals who get evicted, lose their jobs, become disabled, can't afford rent increases, experience domestic abuse, etc
>>2799725because were entering the british years of lead as preditected by mapuin
>>2799719>that shouldnt matterWhat shouldnt matter? Drug addiction? Trauma?
>>2799727Good, Britain deserve it for what they did to Northern Ireland.
>>2799724Might also have something to do with the fact that everywhere else on the internet is transphobic as fuck, and if you try to talk about the material consequences of being trans in Britain you just get verbally abused
>>2799729I'm sick of the Irish moaning can't even lie. Its over. You've been indipdant for ages, get a life get over it. Enjoy your little tax haven shitehole, you lazy cretins.
>>2799713Active for what reason?
The North is closer to reuniting with the Republic than it has ever been (not that that is necessarily a good thing, there certainly isn't a plan for the practicalities of how it could feasibly happen), there is no appetite for bloodshed, and they have completely soured their reputation through the murder of Lyra McKee.
Such aimless violence just to change the North from being owned by the British to being owned by the EU.
>>2799723This is what I was getting at. The Buckland Review of Autism Employment from 2024 found that only 3 in 10 autistic adults in the UK are in employment. You've got a lot of people there with serious capability if we could get over the fact that they might accidentally come across as rude sometimes, or that they might have some difficulty commuting to an open plan office with fluorescent lights and Capital FM blaring in the background 5 days a week
>>2799731You will never be a real Brit. You are not Welsh, you are not Scottish, you are not English. You are a Irishman twisted by Unionism and colonialism into a crude mockery of Europe's worst shithole.
All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back Brits mock you. Your MPs are disgusted and ashamed of you, your "Allies" laugh at your marches and bonfires behind closed doors.
Brits are utterly repulsed by you. Eight Hundred of years of colonisation have allowed Brits to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even Unionists who “pass” sound uncanny and unnatural to a Brit. Your shite accent is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a Drunk Scot to do a bonfire, he’ll turn tail and bolt the second he gets a whiff of your hatred of Catholics.
You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.
Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a car, make a bomb put it under your car, and blow it up. The Gardai will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you near headstones marked with the Irish language, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know an Irishman is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your so called "nation" is a vague mention in history books.
This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.
>>2799735Can you do this for the Scottish unionists next?
>>2799733Sinn Fein is failing its promises, the British government went against the Good friday Agreement during Brexit, unionists are radicalising, there are regulary race riots done by them, there are still crazy people marching down catholic neighborhood.
Britain is actively defending people who murdered Irishmen, and I hold no hope for Farage to ever accept a referendum on unity.
And generally, things haven't improved for catholics in the last 15 years, there is no economical hope.
(New IRA is opposed to both the Republic of Ireland and the UK, they claim legitimacy from the 1916 Irish republic throught Thomas Maguire, they are nonetheless quite incompetent drug dealers, but it's not a shock they're rising again.)
TERFs? Cost of living crisis? Tuition fees? Stagflation and an oncoming recession?
Woah slow down, you hit your head pretty hard there. You okay? Come on, Tony Blair's about to give his victory speech. After that let's go to the pub and have a smoke inside
>>2799738You will never be a real Englishman. You are not a Londoner, you are not Northumbrian, you are not Liverpooler . You are a Scot twisted by unionism and colonialism into a crude mockery of Europe's worst shithole.
All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back Englishmen mock you. Your MPs are disgusted and ashamed of you, your "Allies" laugh at your accent and language behind closed doors.
Englishmen are utterly repulsed by you. Two Hundreds of years of union have allowed Englishmen to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even unionists who “pass” sound uncanny and unnatural to an Englishman. Your shite accent is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a drunk JK Rowling to wave a union jack, she’ll turn tail and bolt the second she gets a whiff of your hatred of the European Union.
You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.
Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a car, make a bomb put it under your car, and blow it up. The PSS will find you heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you near headstones marked with the Scottish language, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know a Scot is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your so-called "movement" is a vague mention in history books.
This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.
>>2799744Beautiful thank you Grok
Tony Blair? The Iraq War? 9/11?
Wake up! What in God's name are you muttering about?
Get you head out the clouds kid, It's 1914 and you need to jump over that trench and into the incoming German mortar fire and machine gunners!
>>2799750If only they knew how good they had it
>>2799752what the fuck are you talking about, most of the population lived in slums in 1914
>>2799735Don't know who would want to be Irish, eternal losers proped up by proximity to Europeans.
>>2799756that would be poland or the baltics, ireland is actually successful
>>2799739All nonsence, Low Status Irish tards with nothing else to do. So they go into pointless terrorism. Same as gang tards.
>>2799755They didn't have tenancy referencing or room deposits in 1914
Also jobs were so abundant they had to ask 15 year olds to enlist in the army to serve
Today you get a paltry payment of UC and you're lucky if you get a job stacking shelves
>>2799755>>2799759There was no such thing as online application forms either or 3 round interviews either
You just walked into town and shook the hand of the local employer and that was it, you had a job
>>2799757No its not, way less succesful than baltics, Irelands propserity, comes from being a parastic tax haven onto europe. A status it can only have due to historic proximity to europeans and Britian. Its produced almost nothing of its own since indipendance.
>>2799759you also had a high risk of dying by age 50 back then
>>2799762it's more than a tax haven if you actually looked at it
>>2799763>it's more than a tax haven if you actually looked at itThats false, its just a tax haven. Any tertiary buisness it does is due to its status as the former.
>>2799763Exactly, no worries about developing dementia or COPD because you smoked a packet a day since the age of 12
Life was not better in 1914. GET A GRIP
>>2799764so you just retreated into a position where nothing can change this fact, kys!
>>2799761you also lived in poverty even if you could get this wage, just like today but even worse
>>2799768>kysFalse I will not be killing myself, and Ireland is still a tax haven.
>>2799756They're only "losers" because their government is a British puppet state.
>>2799758People on this board will call for revolution but the instant a grouo does a bit of violence they whine.
They might be tards but they're more revolutionary then you'll ever be.
>>2799766No it wasn't better but at the same time there's no excuse for things being as bad as they are now, when productive capacity is so much greater.
>>2799773i mean what exactly is revolutionary about ineffective carbombs in 2026?
>>2799776Still more then anything British leftists have ever done since Blair.
>>2799773False, the Irish democratically chose, to be a disgusting tax haven. They have no revolutionary potential. They have hapily ellected Fianna Fail, Fine Gail, for litterally there entire democratic history.
And there is nothing revolutionary about blowing up some random car. Today Irish
'revolutionarys fight to intergrate northern Ireland from a neo liberal uk into an even more neo-liberal ireland.
Inb4 your nostalisgist Irish exceptionalist cope.
>>2799780Corbyn was better. Even GlowZanksi is better.
>>2799782get a job
>>2799780and? doing things means nothing if they achieve nothing
>>2799782The IRA, including its offhsoots has faught for a 32 counties socialist republic, not integration into the Free state.
They famously haven't been happy about their situation ? Don't trust the faked GDP stats made up the government, the Irish people are still fairly poor, just look at the housing situation.
>>2799783If they had been elected, they'd have just done just like Syriza and become neoliberals. So, still nothing.
>>2799784I don't think they achieved much, but keeping the police on their toes so they don't start massacring the catholics again is still something.
If there was no IRA, the loyalists wouldn't hesitate one second to start massacring the Irish en masse.
These people hate the catholics to their core, they despise them and want their end, in 2001 they threw threw bombs at little girls going to school because they were catholics.
If the Police wasn't scared of the IRA blowing them up they'd have let them do it.
British leftists don't even have the balls to do anything when the Government arrest people en masse for protesting for Palestine.
>>2799794The IRA havn't fought for shit but a petty nationalism and tax haven. Get to fuck with that shit.
Get over it mate the unionist era, is over. Your fighting ghosts.
>>2799802You say that while the British actively celebrate Bloody Sunday. While the Orange Order marches in the catholic streets, while the loyalists regularly riot for the right to murder ethnic minorities.
>>2799794>I don't think they achieved much, but keeping the police on their toes so they don't start massacring the catholics again is still something. >If there was no IRA, the loyalists wouldn't hesitate one second to start massacring the Irish en masse.>These people hate the catholics to their core, they despise them and want their end, in 2001 they threw threw bombs at little girls going to school because they were catholics.>If the Police wasn't scared of the IRA blowing them up they'd have let them do it.>British leftists don't even have the balls to do anything when the Government arrest people en masse for protesting for Palestine.the PIRA achieved something because they also attacked british soldiers and forced them to compromise, doing it now is absurd
>>2799812New IRA is stuck on local issues as there isn't British millitary presence in Northern Ireland anymore. The Idea isn't to gain a compromise, its to defend local areas from nefarious actors, such as loyalist paramillitaries or the police. I don't think they're great, but without such groups, there is nothing stopping the police or the loyalists from attacking civilians.
>>2799807So a bunch of pointless bullshit, thats sensationalised and basically not real.
British don't celebrate bloody sunday
Orange order is smaller than its ever been
Loyalists (another set of loosers), don't regurarly riot for the "right to muder ethnic minorities"
All delusions, get over your petty nationalism, its over Irishcel.
>>2799815Litterally indentical to Postcode gang retardation.
Don't look at /isg/ right now…
>>2799825Litterally yesterday Kemi Badenoch posted a video of bloody sunday as some great work of the British army. The juges also refused to condemn the massacre last year and spared solider F
Orange order is rising again.
Loyalists actively riot every few months against immigrants, they set houses on fire.
>>2799794>keeping the police on their toes so they don't start massacring the catholics again is still something. >If there was no IRA, the loyalists wouldn't hesitate one second to start massacring the Irish en masse.This is such nonsense, you obviously don't live here
>>2799846You're awfully naive then, look up holy cross dispute.
>>2799854>holy cross dispute.>25 years agoWhere you even born?
>>2799855Ok ? Then look up bloody sunday trial, if you want something recent.
But I don't think loyalist aptitudes have changed since they day the tried to killed 5 year old girls going to school
>>2799858People from both sides got off from there crimes, get over it.
And its been 25 years half those people are probably dead.
>>2799860You don't see the difference between a government pardoning a solider that killed innocent civilians vs them pardoning their ennemies for a peace treaty ?
The girls involved aren't dead, they're barely 30
>>2799719>how? he obviously was not a threat at that point. They were yelling for him to drop the knife, but they just tazed him, are they so dumb they dont know you clench up when you get electrocuted?If they're still holding a knife they can still stab you with it, feel free to try and wrestle it off someone yourself and see how that goes.
Fair on the last point tho.
Drive by shooting in Brixton, 4 in hospital…
>>2799931Looks good! We have our May day celebrations tomorrow. Not sure how big it's going to be (feel it will be smaller than last year) but it is nice actually doing something as compared to years previously.
>>2799941inshallah comrade. the celebration in barnsley was 100-200+ people but my dad said it was 300ish but i have my doubts. regardless it was pretty nice. its not going to lead to revolution but i can perhaps the centenury bring brought up another time in politics sometime this year maybe
>>2799947I think there is something in building up to May Day next year, which is a Saturday. I have been involved in organising our local May Day celebrations since 2024 but IDK that feels like it could be something.
The dark secret of Britain is that neoliberalism is actually the cure to 95% of its problems but Britain manages to get everything backwards. None of our "Neoliberal" leaders did anything like neoliberalism. Just as Attlee was an export-lead developmentalist wearing socdem clothing, Thatcher and Blair were just the abstract concept of malice in neoliberal clothing. Republicanism has had better innings in these isles than neoliberalism.
What we should have: fairly frictionless market economy, high cash-focused welfare, simple but progressive tax system, social liberalism, incredibly easy to get a work visa, large state-lead infrastructure projects
What we've got instead: highly regulated LARP economy, mediocre confusing arbitrary welfare, absolutely incomprehensible regularly-regressive tax system, social illiberalism, bizarre mix of harsh immigration rules and high willingness to let people settle permanently, state refuses to build any infrastructure out of baffling penny-pinching then goes and legislates itself into statutory obligations to spend billions of pounds.
>>2799695Their job is to ration care.
>>2800007>true neoliberalism has never been triedlol cope
>>2800007Give practical policies we should implement
>>2800024That's my joke!
>>2800029Off the top of my head: Progressively deregulate the former nationalized industries (make market entry easier before taking off price caps etc), greatly liberalize planning law, improve the universal credit taper rate so that you're actually always better off in work, get rid of dumb shit like the withdrawal of child benefit above a certain income, abolish national insurance and fold it into income tax, abolish most cutouts and exemptions to income tax, scrap/replace the Equality Act 2010 and blacklist half the "EHRC" and adjacent illiberal bodies from working in public service ever again, change the visa system so that it's easier to get visas without a pathway to citizenship, require the treasury to assess the cost/benefit ratio of all legislation that creates new obligations for the state but - crucially - do not hire more civil servants to do this, make them reallocate people who currently go through infrastructure projects with a fine tooth comb.
Idealistically: Outsource most central government functions and spending to current councils, giving them the kind of power the Scottish parliament has currently. Give Scotland and Wales full fiscal autonomy. (Probably with some degree of subsidy to both in the short-medium term, longer term for Wales.)
>>2800007>What we should have: fairly frictionless market economy, high cash-focused welfare, simple but progressive tax system, social liberalism, incredibly easy to get a work visa, large state-lead infrastructure projectswhich isn't what neoliberalism is so what are you even talking about
>>2799691>I think he would have succumbed to cultural pressure if he had lived today.I don't think he would've changed. He wouldn't have supported Hamas for sure, but the Palestinian cause had less support among Western publics when he was alive, so why would he give in to public pressure now. He would be a big pro-Ukraine guy. Also he was very pro-Kurd.
>>2800142>but the Palestinian cause had less support among Western publics when he was alive, so why would he give in to public pressure now.Because there are quite a few celebs-. sorry "intellectuals" of his calibre did the Hopscotch to zionism during the corbyn years as a way to leverage over "the communists". The mainstream tory party is a great example of this.
Why doesn’t England just send all its welfare scroungers and junkies into Northern Ireland to boost protestant numbers artificially while clearing NHS waitlists? Seems like a win win for everyone not in Sinn Fein
>>2800151He was also a neocon and you can't really be one of those without being at least somewhat pro Israel, at least not for the past 15 years
>>2800154What on earth would that solve. Do you really think Westminster even cares if they keep Norn at this point
>>2800139Define neoliberalism as you understand it
Being lazy and using google's AI overview:
>Neoliberalism is a political-economic ideology advocating free-market capitalism, deregulation, privatization, and reduced government spendingI would contend that Britain's "neoliberals" failed on all 4 counts and that we should directly seek to chance 3/4 of these failures. (on the last one: attempting to cut government spending doesn't work, so why not just reform government to work better - e.g. decentralize it - and let local people decide their priorities, with representatives actually accountable for the quality of local services, and with areas allowed to make trade-offs as their citizens prefer?)
This is obviously some flavor of neoliberalism, even if it's an atypical one.
>>2800137Yeah well I have autism so the joke is always not understood, take that.
I was working over fucking May day so I missed the march (apparently it was shit at least with all the same liberal crowd who turn up to every march saying the same shit). Like I missed the working day because I was at work at some evil online american AI job. Fuck this shit I want to go back to being lumpen and getting paid for by the government to undemine them.
>>2800179So you were looking for a job and then you found a job, and heaven knows your miserable now?
>>2800211It was easier when I didn't have a job lol, why wouldn't I be pissed off?
why are you still a monarchy? what went wrong?
>>2800300They threw out the Stewarts for daring to actually act like monarchs in a monarchy, the Windsors are dutch puppets of the bourgeois and lord coalition called parliament.
Restore the Stewarts, death to parliament, death to 1688
>>2800154You joke, but the British government did consider moving Hong Kongers to Northern Ireland for a similar reason.
>>2800484they honestly should do the funniest thing possible and just make it independent to appease no one
>>2800137I think you are still to unspecific. We are extremely liberal with our visas: 400,000 student visas were approved in 2025, and 160,000 skilled work visas issued. Family visas also allow people to work (I was mates with an Indian fella who got a job through a family visa, since his wife was a medical student). On further numbers, arou d 100,000 people were included in asylum claims in 2025. We are not a fortress. So, in your proposed reforms, should we lower the skilled work income threshold to allow for more immigrant visa holders? If so, what should the rate be, and should citizens get any priority? For example, in a low-skilled position, is it fair to give it to an immigrant rather than a citizen?
>>2800514Immigration is the area I find least interesting and Britain is currently on course for net-negative migration, although (due to bad modelling techniques) government statistics agencies haven't caught up to this yet.
I will say, however, that I would gladly approve a million student visas a year if foreign students can afford the fees, and if you want to regulate numbers (for overseas students, at least) you should use fees instead of the visa system.
Education is one of the few things this country is actually good at, it's de-facto an export industry, it's an industry a lot of native citizens would love to work in, and it's absolute madness that we're trying to kneecap it in the quixotic desire to pretend that students coming here for 5 years are "immigrants" in the same way as people who're going to become citizens. This is especially the case under the status quo where, due to moronic planning laws and council-tax, students regularly live in purpose-built accommodation that you're not even allowed to rent to other people.
I do not in principle believe in citizens being given priority and I do not in principle float around with an ideal number of migrants in my head. That said the practical point I would make is that numbers tell you basically nothing. 160,000 people with a pathway to citizenship and to bringing their families and getting pensions and so on, and 160,000 people who're only allowed to be here so long as they work in the social care sector and aren't allowed to bring anyone with them and aren't allowed to switch visa type are two very different definitions of 160,000. (And both are very different again to someone willing to hand over £70,000 a year to be in the country playing candy crush during lectures.)
>>2800530>1 million student visasWell, we must be weary of capacity; in housing and positions in universities. There are approximately 1.2 million students renting property in the UK, and only 750,000 purpose-built housing; the rest going private. If we accepted 600,000 more students, they wouldn't have anywhere to live. Also on university positions, different universities scale based on prospects, and so filling up low-prospect universities with immigrants limits the educational opportunities of citizens (for example, in the US, they have racial protections for black and white students over east asians, since it is so competitive). So, do you think universities should just be filled with east asian autists while everyone else settles for less? Its not a moral judgement, just an open question - for example, we currently have junior doctors in the UK struggling to find work; what do we do with them? Make them work in starbucks or tesco like the others? There is a certain double standard however, since we dont have protections or penalties in athletics, and so the 100m dash is always going to be filled with black people, swimming with white people, and marathon running with Kenyans. Is higher education a natural monopoly?
Neoliberalism will never work in the UK (if it works anywhere at all, which it doesn't because it fundamentally misunderstands how capitalism works) in large part for cultural reasons. Neoliberalism is an outgrowth of the American economic and cultural frontier mindset, it's an ideology that everyone is a go-getter individualist who seeks manifest destiny of carving their place out in the world, that every person wants to spend their life hustling, doing their own business etc and bootstrapping every day.
This is a very Yankoid mindset, Yanks DO in large part have this view, i've spent plenty of time in the US and among Americans and it's shocking how much more go getter and enthusiastic culturally they are than the rest of the Anglosphere, but that's the thing, it's an AMERICAN cultural view, not a British one.
British people have been a strict class almost caste based society for literally over a thousand years. Class is extremely culturalised here, even if you are working class and "make it", without the right accent, right school background and right boys networks, you will still have almost every door shut in your face, everyone who is working class intrinsically knows this, so of course that Yank attitude will never truly take place here. Class culture in the UK also means that most UK working class don't see themselves as even wanting to be business petite bougies, but just want to go earn a simple wage, head to the pub at the end of the day etc, for most working class brits, the goal in life is to have one "investment property" so they can mooch off some students for rent.
Ironically, in terms of material history, the UK is far closer to Japan, China, South Korea etc, than a frontier colonial nation like the US. Which is why I've long argued as long as the UK is Capitalist, it should follow the Asian Tiger state-directed market model, rather than the Neoliberalism.
>>2800535I think most of this could be solved at a stroke with deregulation, bar one point on which we could keep more or less the current system.
- It should be easier to open new universities and easier for private/non-charitable universities to be founded. why is it that the last new ordinary university (e.g. actually new, not a college changing its name and status) was founded in the 1960s? Why is it that there are only, give or take, 5 private sector universities? Pair this with a general liberalization of planning law and you can imagine someone, for example, throwing together an overseas student colony in the middle of nowhere.
- While housing supply is fixed, rental supply is an interesting one. I think we could solve a lot of our problems, particularly for students, if people were more willing to rent out spare rooms. This is already less regulated, but it'd be worth looking at what it is that puts people off doing it. (I'd even consider something a bit naff like an advertising campaign just going "did you know you can do this?", I mean, you're complaining about money troubles, but you've got 2 rooms sitting empty since your kids moved out…), students would be ideal candidates for this because you can reasonably expect they're going to go away after a few years.
- A chunk of our unis already make more from foreign students from domestic students, but they still choose to take domestic students for a range of reasons (their ostensible chartered purpose is to educate locals, it helps them get government grants and research funding, it's good for their reputation, etc.) and I think even if we massively expanded the number of foreign students this would stay the case. What we've basically got, and could retain, is an informal quota at each uni. e.g. Oxford would take more or less the same domestic students as now, but more foreign students or charge higher fees to foreign students. (And this would cascade downwards: every uni would take more or less the same number of domestic students.)
4-ish. I'd consider ditching the requirement to vet that foreign students are actually attending classes for unis/courses charging fees over a certain threshold. Let's be honest, just like domestic students a chunk of them are dossing about anyway. If the uni doesn't have to physically fit them all, it can better cater itself to the people who're actually trying while letting the people who just want a degree certificate cross-subsidize them.
>>2800539I don't think you're entirely wrong, but I take the optimistic view that if you were to expose people to the right conditions for long enough, you could smash these bad parts of British culture. We have, after all, smashed most of the good parts with our current way of doing things. You don't have to turn everyone into a yank striver to create a culture where people are a bit more relaxed, but know that
you can just do things, who're willing to fix problems when they find them.
The Asian tiger model is a nice idea but it relies on a competent state with a lot of state capacity (and more than a little repression of labour), and Britain's state is anything but competent. If that's the aim, the best chance we've got at implementing it would unironically be to sell the whole country to Hyundai. The upside about imagining a neoliberal Britain is that it doesn't require the government to do much at all: it just has to stop meddling in things, or at least meddle less.
thank you keir stalin
>>2800546>(i) build more universitiesWe are shit at building new things in this country in general. Filling potholes even takes a month.
>(ii) rent out spare bedroomsI dont think many people are fine with letting strangers live in their houses tbh, and i doubt students want to live with boomers, either.
I dont think we're advancing from the central concern, which is the intrinsic limits of the economy. I regard universities as elite institutions, not commercial enterprises, and so I think we ought to regulate access, by more stringent sponsorships, like in Scotland, since the backend of more students is going to be more debt, which impoverishes people rather than enriching them. So, I would like to nationalise universities, but leave some in the private sector as well.
>>2800561>Filling potholes even takes a month.try years
>In ScotlandThe education system is about to collapse because they over-leveraged into foreign students for that easy cash money, that's now drying up and they're basically cutting back by like 70% and have decimated the rental sectors of every city. Its not a good example.
>>2798843Lots of things can be said or criticized about the American Democrats or the French left but one undeniable quality they both have over anything left-of-center in the UK is they never ever ever ever cuck out. Something like this or the Corbyn fiasco would litteraly never happen there.
>>2800568We are just too polite, it seems.
>>2800564>The education system is about to collapse because they over-leveraged into foreign students for that easy cash money, that's now drying up and they're basically cutting back by like 70% and have decimated the rental sectors of every city.Well I found this BBC article:
<The latest figures from HESA (Higher Education Statistics Agency) show there were 73,915 students from outside the UK, down 12% from 83,975 the year before. The statistics also show there were 173,795 students from Scotland at Scottish universities.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1w0y93w8vyoSo around 40% of Scottish students are foreign, which is more than the stats for the UK in general:
<In 2023/24 there were 732,285 overseas students studying at UK higher education providers or 23% of the total student population. 75,490 of these students were from the EU and 656,795 from outside the EU. […] India sent the most students to the UK in 2023/24 with 107,500 entrants. This was almost nine times the number of entrants from India in 2017/18.https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7976/So I suppose youre right, that the tuition fee coverage doesn't protect students from competition. 🤷♂️ The alternative still seems grim; of indebting the citizenry to boost revenue, as opposed to outsourcing it to foreigners. I think in general, the depreciation of degrees shows that there has to at least be limits on graduation.
>>2800576The 2nd and 3rd order effects are the real killers, every big city in Scotland's rents have skyrocketed because of this (and the flood of Asylum/inactive immigration)
>>2800561We're bad at building because planning law is a farce and councils have few incentives to approve development that can offset annoying NIMBYs, both of which are solvable problems. Relax current planing restrictions (easy-ish) and decentralize power to local councils (so that their budget gets more of the benefit from local development and they can tax developments as they see fit, rather than the current council tax farce.)
People don't like letting strangers live in their house, but that's something that can change. People used to take lodgers and encouraging more to do it again would ease housing shortages without having to lay a single brick.
Though if you pair it with relaxed planning laws, you could imagine it being economical to re-do the layout of a house so that one of the bedrooms is turned into a bedsit without any direct access to the rest of the property. That's not as nice a solution (it's more of the cunt-landlord archetype) but it would have the same effect of cheaply increasing supply.
It's entirely possible for a university to be both an elite institution for domestic students and a money-spinner from foreign students. That said, on the whole I disagree that we should restrict access: I'm all for
subsidizing higher education because (as well as being a general social good if we could get our economy in order in general) it's a massive factory for people to develop left/liberal dispositions. Student finance is a bit of a mess and, while framed as debt, it's really just another overcomplication to our income tax system for the majority of students.
Aspirationally, I would abolish tuition fees for domestic students, or move to a system where your "loan" is recorded but repaid by the government unless you choose to emigrate. More cost-neutrally, you could let local authorities decide their own policies on subsidizing higher education.
>>2800629>It's entirely possible for a university to be both an elite institution for domestic students and a money-spinner from foreign students. That said, on the whole I disagree that we should restrict accessWell, we have to deal with the fact that junior doctors are going to be unemployed, then. Take it, or leave it.
You think because you’re British you’re entitled to a job touching other people’s bodies and looking at their DNA, die you fucking pervert. I hope Fentanyl from Amerikkka gets into your coke and ketamine.
>>2798655If a Christian bakery can't refuse making a wedding cake for a gay couple, it works in the other direction too: a gay bakery can't refuse to make a homophobic wedding cake.
Bake the cake, ballsack mongler.
>>2800682Pointless surmising this situation; he's completely beholden to a public image curated by the bourgeois press. The fact that his media team engaged with it in the first place beyond condemnation speaks to the fact of how incompetent they are, as the issue would just cause tumult due to its own disagreements.
Just more evidence he's a useful idiot for the party membership in driving engagement with potential voters
>>2800790its own disagreements within the party*
>>2800735>a gay bakery can't refuse to make a homophobic wedding cakepolitical views aren't a protected class (supposedly)
if you make cakes condemning gay marriage, you need to make one condemning straight marriage if asked
>>2800168>Define neoliberalism as you understand itI agree with your definition mostly but would also include tax cuts.
>[what you described] is obviously some flavor of neoliberalism, even if it's an atypical one.It's really not, you're just proposing social democracy with extra localist characteristics. You can't be like 'they should do proper neoliberalism - high welfare, progressive taxes, and big infrastructure projects' because that's not neoliberalism. they did do neoliberalism, which is just voodoo economics and an excuse to rob the poor blind.
Left the thread for a day and its dead swear to god I carry this site on my back.
>>2799984>>2799947Turnout was good in the end happy days.
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