>Kanye West should never have been invited to headline Wireless.
>This government stands firmly with the Jewish community, and we will not stop in our fight to confront and defeat the poison of antisemitism.
>We will always take the action necessary to protect the public and uphold our values.https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/2041515702855643347Well that's one 'American boy' we don't want in this country.
They are showing "runaway" to Kanye. He has become a "monster" who has too much "power". We are seeing "through the wire" how "heartless" he truly is. Diamonds from Sierra Leone.
Does Sir Starmer have anything to say about Mr. Trump's genocidal ramblings online, perchance?
>>2771678The only reason Hitler was bad was because he was anti-semitic.
>>2771678liking hitler when black = banned liking hitler when jew = good
Roma are actually very badly discriminated against in real life however they do not get 1% of the media attention Jews get. Jews are not discriminated against in any way.
>>2771923Bullshit they got the best disney musical
>>2771923Neither are discriminated in relation to the abject antisocial behaviors they display. Any racial diaspora that complain about opppression and discrimination while peacefully living in the west is larping or trying to take shit from you or get free shit from the state.
Objectively speaking the only people who could be described as discriminated in any real way in the west post-WW2 are gay and trans, mostly the latter in 2026. They faced harsh top-down repression and the common threat of horizontal violence while at the same time browns and jews had anti free speech laws erected to protect their feelings because some skinhead beat up a black guy in brawl once after tagging a swatsika on a wall in 1993.
Don't care about the Kayne thing despite the fact Jewish groups were largely fine with him until everyone in the past few days started pointing out that Jews were fine with a literal Nazi supporter, but not Anti-Zionists lmao.
The main thing I'll always say about Kayne is that he's literally the most overrated musician in modern history and has always been fucking shit tier. Never even understood the love for him outside of the US, as in the US it can at least be explained by him basically being male madonna introduction of "electronic music" to a mainstream male US audience.
Either way, Greens are on the rise but I really do wonder how long it lasts until people realize the Greens weren't joking about their insane open borders policies where anybody who rocks up to the UK, even tourists, becoming functionally insta-citizens.
Still hold the Greens will follow the same path as their Australian siblings, in that they will have a meteoric rise, people will actually start to see their shit tier TikTok Woketard policies, Labour will eventually switch to a "soft-left" leader and the Green support will be annihilated overnight as the general public no longer have to pretend to support a bunch of jumped up Tumblrinas.
That said the only thing I could see changing here is that Gen Z are a much bigger bloc.
>>2773260>the Greens weren't joking about their insane open borders policies where anybody who rocks up to the UK, even tourists, becoming functionally insta-citizens.that's giga based though
>>2773276>>2773277Ukraine lost m'am.
>>2773286No it isn't, it's absolutely retarded shit, the UK would become a third world shithole overnight and wages would completely implode with housing prices skyrocketing. The NHS would probably crumble within 2 years.
>>2773300I'll always be anti-Kayne because like I said above, instanely overrated, and his popularity outside of the US makes no fucking sense since the production techniques he introduced to US mainstream audiences, had already been around in Europe and UK rap since the late 1980s.
Nujabes also predates the sound that Kayne supposedly pioneered as well.
Like I said previously, He's the male Madonna, took sounds that were already well established outside of the US and introduced them to a US audience.
Difference is Madonna produced Vogue which is one of the most bants fun pop songs of all time, Kayne mostly produced whiny shit.
>>2773289*Ukrainian proles
Just like Russian ones
>>2773260national borders are a philosophical and economic tragedy and only by comical contrivance can a so-called communist believe otherwise.
"capital movement should stay free for the foreseeable future, but labour movement must remain restricted" - statements dreamed up by the utterly deranged.
>>2773298- not actually likely. did the US turn into a shithole when it was taking all and sundry, or did it turn into the global superpower?
- "wages would implode" for who? you're telling me the principled communist position is that, to avoid a handful of people on £40k a year going down to £25k a year, thousands on £2.5k a year have to sit around unproductively dying of gout? workers of the world unite indeed!
- housing prices only skyrocket in the world where you're somehow able to open borders without doing planning reform. moreover, house prices skyrocketing has effects you would secretly find desirable.
- saving the NHS is trivial: token social insurance model. this is, i grant, the ugliest concession - but "you should die in the third world instead of paying £25 to see a GP if you haven't been here for (say) 5 years" is another statement dreamed up by the utterly deranged.
- back to wages: you're telling me we're going to start throwing up skyscrapers to take anyone who wants to come, with the requisite growth in construction, supermarkets, transportation, administration, government, medical services, screen printing, policing, and /leftybritpol/ posting, to meet all this new demand, and yet this is going to drag the country down rather than up? stupid, stupid, stupid.
- in the worst resort, one could always just turn - say - shetland into a special economic zone with an internal border. that way, all the losers on the mainland get to keep their precious stagnant status quo while still allowing open national borders and radical regulatory experiments. this is not as good as real open borders, but it's much better for everyone than the status quo.
p.s. you are forgetting the massive value of selection effects. the best people of the developing world would come here because the worst people dispositionally - the people that britain is disproportionately made up of, because all our best and brightest fucked off to the new world - are those who refuse to move when circumstances change.
>>2773346pedantry: "gout" is supposed to be "goitre"
if you've played "real lives 2007" you'll see what i'm doing.
(and why global open borders is a moral imperative, independent of the strong economic case for it.)
I support unlimited immigration into Wales from every single country, including England and America. This is because our population is low. We need a greater population not only for improving GDP in order to rival the imperial poles of America and China, but also in order to fight the war against the English. If there is a revolution in Wales but not England, a later war would be inevitable, and they have a great advantage in population compared to us. We would have to fight purely defensively. However I think we could get a workeable population in only a couple of decades through unrestricted immigration and artificial womb / cloning technology. This will allow us to match their troop counts or even superceed them because all sections of society will be moviblized in militias against the Saxons. I think we could get 50% of able bodied adults in the military and 50% in subterrenean weapons factories. This is necessary for us to win against the Unholy Anglo alliance.
>>2773351A wall would have to be set up to prevent petit-bourgeois elements from escaping into England though.
Greens border policy is the kind of insane unironic libertarian gamble that might work but they would also need to dismantle the welfare state, lots of labout laws and make UBI a thing as replacement otherwise it could crash out the economy
>>2773346>not actually likely. did the US turn into a shithole when it was taking all and sundry, or did it turn into the global superpower?Big difference between an ENTIRE EMPTY CONTINENT with the most diverse biomes and most mineral wealth in human history, and an already overcrowded tiny island.
>"wages would implode" for who?Yes, for British people, unless you want to basically go to an election to Brits with "You should work for $2 a day because Africans will". Marx also pushed for Nationalist position, not just pure cosmopolitian open borders.
>ou're telling me we're going to start throwing up skyscrapers to take anyone who wants to come, with the requisite growth in construction, supermarkets, transportation, administration, government, medical services, screen printingLmao what fucking fantasy world do you live in? How is flooding the UK with dirtpoor thirdies going to result in anything but massive endless slums? These people will just go straight onto welfare and into organized crime like they already do. The UK can't even build infrastructure as it is. basically everywhere in the UK is in a massive infrastructure deficit outside of London
> the best people of the developing world would come here because the worst people dispositionally - the people that britain is disproportionately made up of, because all our best and brightest fucked off to the new world - are those who refuse to move when circumstances change.Ah yes, when I look at current US migration, where africans, Albanians and south Asians instantly rock up and turn to welfare and organized crime I think "They truly are the best among us" lmao.
>>2773353It wouldn't work. It would just turn the UK into a third world slum, destroy all infrastructure and services and completely annihilate what little remains of British collective consciousness and society.
We already know as FACT that more diversity = less solidarity. In the Greens policy world, it wouldn't even be truly "diversity" natives would become a minority almost overnight and the UK already has a problem with ingroup ethnic enclaves.
the actual green migration policy is a nothingburger if you know how to read policy proposals. I mean, it's nice to have someone put their migration policy in non-hitlerian terms and to state warm aspirations towards open borders, but it's a very Labour-2017 document.
https://migration.greenparty.org.uk/migration-policy/just pretend you're sir humphrey and go through this.
>Implement a fair and humane system of managed immigration"Minister,
everyone wants a fair and humane system of managed immigration. They just don't want immigrants."
>Treat all migrants as if they are citizens"I thought we already do - terribly." More seriously, in the detail it's very clear that this
doesn't apply to people on a visitor visa.
"MG401. Visitors will not have access to welfare benefits or Universal Basic Income.
MG402. Visitors will have access to the NHS for urgent and medically necessary procedures only."
>Give all residents the right to voteGood and harmless idea that they already do in Scottish elections. As you can see at the last election, most citizens don't care to vote for the cunts we stand anyway.
>Help families to be togetherused to be allowed anyway and has a fairly standard remit. (e.g. it means "household" not "entire extended family tree")
>Dismantle the Home Office"Minister!
You can't be serious! " Oh wait… good idea. "MG300. The functions of the Home Office will be divided between a Department of the Interior and a Department of Migration, which, among other duties, will handle all visa applications."
>Abolish the No Recourse to Public Funds conditionAnodyne and restates #2
>Abolish the ten year route to settlementGood. Either approve or reject an application, but don't cunt people about.
>Stop the profiteering from application feesGood.
>Stop putting people in prison because of their immigration statusGood. Remember, there isn't enough room in prison for people guilty of real crimes!
>Accept our responsibility for the climate emergency and support the people forced to moveThe Department of Administrative Affairs had a less broad remit than this. When someone isn't promising specifics and is swimming against the tide of administrative preference, you can safely assume their policy point will be reduced down to 6 press releases and some leaflets.
(More realistically, this will translate into a mix of "people who'd have moved here anyway" and token foreign aid.)
>>2772942Transnvke. Transisters and homos are literally the only truly oppressed populations in big 26.
>>2773260>>2773298>>2773353>>2773365>>2773371If you don't want icky brown ESLs receiving welfare, the white clittycels shouldn't get any either, so go and fry chicken in KFC, chuddy.
>>2773365- marx lived in a time where most countries had open borders. the aliens act 1905 was britain's first real immigration control legislation!
- singapore and hong kong are overcrowded tiny islands (with much better economies and infrastructure than this shithole.), britain has nothing to worry about.
- i do not judge what is morally or economically desirable by what would appeal to demented 80 year olds at a general election.
- people don't actually show up and go on benefits that often ("welfare" - yank yank yank), and our benefits system is shit. if you're better off in work (and much better off than in your third world shithole), and you can work, chances are you're going to work. (but let's be ugly and play devil's advocate: abolishing all non-disability benefits and opening the border would still be more moral than the status quo.)
- the uk could build infrastructure very easily - all the more easily with more people - if it weren't regulated and legally structured to protect incumbents and keep the well-off well-off. that's the fantasy element, not the idea that a bunch of people left to their own devices to do as they think best would yield better outcomes.
- lots of things need to be done just to meet the needs of "natives", let alone those of an expanding population. massively expanding the country is a much more viable solution than carefully trying to set up the tax system so that 150,000 administrative workers in london have the right incentives to move to some grim shithole and do some even more dismal job. (the task reeves is secretly failing at because, again, this country loves to protect an incumbent.)
- you have provided no moral or economic justification for why british people are specially entitled to higher wages than africans. even in your stupid zero-sum world, you've got no argument for why you should live like a first worlder and an african should suffer, rather than you suffering and the african living like a first worlder. (i for one would much rather the african had your laptop, as it happens.)
>>2773320What the fuck are ypu talking about? Kamye was out before Nujabes. Why os everyone an amateur musicologost now? Is it because of yputube video essayists?
>>2773386Stop debating this /pol/cel, he'll eventually start leaking about Thirdies stealing his rightful welfare or some such.
>>2773431
lmfao
>>2773353>might workmight work for whom?
rates of employment are measured by rates of wages in accordance to profit; more workers employed per capital necessarily means lower wages to facilitate stable rates of profit. the reason why the west can afford its labour aristocracy is because it regulates labour by subsidising unemployment with a welfare state.
>>2773346>saving the NHS is trivialthe state of current year leftism
>>2773493>might work for whom?The future reformed Empire
>>2773498far too much ambiguity in what you're saying
you could mean
>it's not trivial to save it in any circumstances, even the status quowhich is wrong. it is easy. the UK spends less than almost any other northern european country on healthcare. NHS england has a ridiculously complicated organizational structure compared to NHS scotland, but its performance is no better. undo the last 30 years of pointless market-LARPing reforms (have a market or don't have a market, but don't fucking roleplay one) and raise funding to the European average and the NHS will be fine.
>it's not trivial to save it if you have open borderswhich is also wrong. you just have to regulate access in some way, which is still infinitely more moral than letting people die poor far far away.
or you could mean
>it is trivial to save it with open borders by changing its operating model, but such changes would be un-leftist.which is a fair point (although it means saying you'd rather people die abroad than live here under a less virtuous looking healthcare model), but also the point you're least likely to be trying to make.
>>2773522>Regulate accessYes, these are called "safe and legal routes", which then allow the denial of asylum to be easier managed.
>letting people die poor far far awayAre all the problems of the world our personal responsibility?
>you'd rather people die abroad than live here>"people"What people? How many?
>>2773386(Legal) Immigration is entirely an economic phenomenon, so people come to the UK with visas; student or work visas, which depends upon the capacity for employment or student vacancy. Capacity for employment is measured by real wages compared to profits, which means you can only increase employment by lowering real wages, or by increasing profits. It is a matter of public information that there are around 695,000 job vacancies in the UK:
<The number of jobs being advertised slid by 3% in January to 695,000https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/feb/23/uk-job-vacancies-fall-to-lowest-level-since-pandemicAt the same time however, there are unemployed citizens, so it seems sensible to employ citizens before settling for immigrants, otherwise you necessitate unemployment, and thus, incentivise a lifestyle of claiming benefits, or lowering wages.
As you have resolved it however, a more productive society with more fixed capital costs unfairly gains higher wages than a society without these prerequisite conditions (ignoring the fact that during the industrial revolution, life expectancy was 40 and wages were hardly more than the cost of a slave). This is obvious economic illiteracy. The lack of development of much of the world is for various reasons, namely imperialist (Marx relates the point that when Ireland became part of the UK, it was deindustrialised, and its commons privatised, causing mass immigration into England). So, as long as international capital rules the motions of other nations, they are subject to the consolidation of international profits. Marx gives the solution that for national development, there must be a national program of protecting industry, which would also require separation from ruling hegemony. So, to have an industrial revolution across Africa, it would need to serve itself; this is easier said than done, but the alternative is much of the world becoming pasture or wasteland, as the global population concentrate in slums within western capital cities, like we saw with the Irish in England, lowering the standard of living for all. So, you concede to capital, promoting the lowering of wages, the destruction of the welfare state, because you must imagine the undeveloped world to be unable to be developed. Why?
>>2773524"regulate access" means access to healthcare, not access to the country.
e.g. check you've got 5 years of national insurance contributions or you have to pay a nominal fee, or only get second-tier care. easy.
>What people? How many?anyone who wants to come and who can manage to get here. when we match japan's population we can reconvene and see how it's going.
(Great Britain is smaller than Japan, it's true, but Japan has a ton of unusable land while Britain has very little. The result of Britain hitting Japan's population would be hitting the population density of The Netherlands, which is hardly a skyscraper hellscape.)
you are engaged in the lump of labor fallacy (yes yes, groan) and more generally misunderstanding the nature of unemployment. if you hire immigrants for every single one of those jobs, those immigrants will require goods and services which will then create new jobs, and so on and so forth. it is more reasonable to take as a baseline assumption that
if we were going to employ natives in those jobs, we would already employ natives in most of those jobs.it does not matter how little immigration there is, King's College Hospital NHS Foundation Trust aren't going to fill their vacancy for a Consultant Dermatologist on £145,478 a year by hiring some pisshead from the jobcentre. they're not even going to fill it by hiring the respectable posters of /leftybritpol/ - they're just going to go without. but somewhere out there, maybe in the developing world, maybe in the states, there's a consultant dermatologist who'd love it here.
i do not imagine the undeveloped world is unable to be developed: i imagine that the world would be developed in the way that best meets peoples needs if it was not arbitrarily cut up into border zones where capital moves freely but labour does not. imagine, for a moment, that great britain does turn into one gigantic island slum because the entire population of the middle east, africa, and albania have all moved here and gone on the (inexplicably still existing, non-contributory) dole - guess what that means?
it means albania is empty! go build a villa on the adriatic!p.s. you've done the dumb "lowering of wages" thing again. if you go from one guy on £40k/year to two guys on £25k/year, aggregate "wages" go up £10k! the point you're trying to dress up in marxist language is "i deserve to be paid more than i'm worth, at the expense of third worlders, because i'm a citizen of the imperial core and they're not. if they want £25k/year income they can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps"
>>2773545>"regulate access" means access to healthcare, not access to the country.So, more people means a more expensive welfare state? Why?
>anyone who wants to come and who can manage to get hereThere are only around 700,000 job vacancies in the UK; if more than 700,000 people come, arent you creating a permanently unemployed underclass, like what we already have?
>more immigrants leads to new jobsat the same rate of wages, or at a lower rate of wages?
>if we were going to employ natives in those jobs, we would already employ natives in most of those jobs.Not as long as the "job centre" gives out benefits instead of work. But this is a strange rationale - are you saying that immigrants should work the shit jobs while many people live on their backs? You are presupposing a permanently unemployed population which receives benefits.
>it does not matter how little immigration there isgrotesquely unmaterialist analysis - what exactly do you think causes immigration? why is britain more attractive to asylum seekers than france?
>specialised NHS positionswhich requires much international competition paired with high qualifications, yes? these lovely doctors in the NHS arent just nobodies, in case you forgot.
>some pisshead from the jobcentre.who is to be permanently unemployed as a somalian delivers him food?
>arbitrarily cut up into border zones where capital moves freely but labour does notright, so if labour moves where capital is, doesnt development require the movement of capital into the developing world?
>if britain becomes an overpopulated shithole, you can at least colonise Africa againwith what money? also, you are strangely adverse to a political imagination here; if the people of the UK vote to limit immigration, this wish must be granted; i dont think most people want to live in a slum, so have a right to defend their national wealth.
>i deserve to be paid more than i'm worth, right; any person seeking higher wages is a spoiled brat; they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps! but do tell me, what determines how much a person's labour is worth, exactly?
>at the expense of third worldersright; the average wage slave is oppressing Africa; not politicians or capitalists, but the man on the street. very wise.
>if they want £25k/year income they can just pull themselves up by their bootstrapsyes; for Africa to develop, it needs investment. The idea that Africans are too incompetent to develop wealth is the implicit racism of everything you write. I am saying that Africa is victim to western imperialism, you are saying that the western citizen must be sacrificed. But what is so outrageous in my proposal? Hire British citizens, then immigrants. Your aristocratic nonsense is assuming that the British are "too good" for these jobs, so dark-skinned people have to do them instead.
>>2773575I'm not gonna say the current system is perfect or even at all good, but it is true that there's plenty of jobs that employers struggle to fill with native employees. Immigration is one solution, another might be to reform the economy to pay those jobs better or give them better conditions, etc. But the fact is that many British people are mentally ill and not ready to work. Maybe more should be done to get them ready to work but doing it with the stick by cutting benefits will just make the situation worse. These people will not magically become fit for work just because you take their money away. They will just become destitute instead.
>>2773575>if the people of the UK vote to limit immigration, this wish must be grantedI'm sorry did we somehow travel to an alternate dimension where what the voter wants actually matters to Westminster?
>>2773600>employers struggle to fill with native employeesYes, because natives have too many options not to work.
>another might be to reform the economy to pay those jobs better or give them better conditions, etcOf course.
>many British people are mentally ill and not ready to workif someone is so mentally ill that they cant sit behind a till, they should be in care
>doing it with the stick by cutting benefits will just make the situation worsea basic solution is to give people benefits to work, so if you let people get a basic wage, with additional benefits, they will retain employment. the idiocy of our current system is that it immediately blocks most benefits if you get a job, but if you could get wages + benefits, you would see full employment overnight. mark my words.
>>2773608>reform the economy to pay those jobs better or give them better conditions, etcI'll be honest much like the with the TFR problem it's not gonna solve itself by throwing money at it. Factory work still exist in some pockets and pay pretty well but they still struggle to fill their job offers. Maybe doing some temporary new deal shit by promising very cheap but decent housing at a loss would work though to get potential workers motivated.
>if someone is so mentally ill that they cant sit behind a till, they should be in care"Care" ends up being more expensive and demanding in infrastructure/security measure than giving disability check to the mentally ill (real or socially constructed), it should only be used for actually dangerous or clinically insane people who hear voices not mindbroken hikkikomori and people who gave up. You also have a good chunk of your population and political class (terfs) that want to increase this state of affair by creating a chronic welfare recipient demographic that account for 1 to 5% of under 30yo (trans people) by barring them from employment and education, we even had one in this thread. Weirdly no leftist adresst this and would rather circljerk about anti-blackness misogynoir in BBC historical drama or wathever. I guess they're not brown, single female or violent enough to get attention they have oppresive white male patricules etc. Sad!
>>2773719>throwing money at a problemTotal benefit spending (including pensions) exceeds £300B per year
But if you work, you virtually pay your own way, so working while receiving benefits inherently solves a lot of problems.
>>2773724Money isn't real
>>2773725>money isnt realyes it is.
>>2773724You realise that you already get more money if you work while on UC?
>>2773728cant pay people enough just print more
>>2773728nah, its fake n gay.
>>2773755printing currency is a redistribution of wealth
>>2773575somewhere in the world right now a man is dying of starvation. that man, in britain, would never dare do an ugly line-by-line wankpost like yours. sadly, thanks to closed borders, you're artificially subsidized to suck up the food and laptops that a more efficient system of social organization would allocate to him.
more people means a more expensive welfare state because there are more people, obviously. if you give everyone a pound, the number of pounds you spend is proportional to the number of people. "no pounds unless you've been employed for 5 years" - easy fix!
i have already dealt with the point about vacancies: the more people in work, the more work is created. vacancies (mostly) reflect other underlying inefficiencies.
i am saying that anyone should work any job they care to get. better 700,000 immigrants, no vacancies, and current levels of unemployment than current levels of unemployment, 700,000 vacancies, and no immigrants. ("no vacancies, no immigrants, no unemployment" - yes, and a unicorn too please daddy.)
your question about asylum seekers is ill placed. "it does not matter (x), y…" as a construction means that the only variable we're discussing is "will the NHS hire a consultant dermatologist from a pool of unemployed people who aren't consultant dermatologists", to which the answer is no.
our pisshead may be permanently unemployed (this is the status quo anyway!), or maybe a somali entrepreneur may start a firm with a job suited to his skillsets.
development requires the movement of capital into the developing world, but the beautiful part of free movement of both capital and labour is that the people who move here can send money back if they want to - and, indeed, the people who want to leave here can take the money they earned here and spend it abroad. "with what money?" - you can buy a flat in egypt for £10k right now, let alone after everyone's left and the price has fallen.
the people of the UK should not be able to vote the people of the third world into poverty. their wishes are ignored when they are correct, it is imperative their wishes are also ignored when they are wrong.
a person seeking higher wages
at the expense of others is a spoiled brat. the man on the street is not "oppressing" africans, i make no accusations against him: i accuse you, directly. your stated preference is for high wages here propped up by artificial restrictions on who can work here based on where they were born.
there is no "implicit racism" in anything i write. my entire philosophy is that one person is as good as another. africa is a victim of western imperialism, and one of the imperialist things the west does is ban africans from moving here! i am not saying anyone should be sacrificed: i am saying to allow people to live where they please, to work where they please, and to allow employers to hire who they please.
what is outrageous in your proposal is that it is nonsense. is the government going to set up a scheme to train you or i to become consultant dermatologists? no.
i don't think anyone is too good for any job. i think anyone who can do a job well should be given the chance, and we shouldn't insist you hire an inferior candidate just because he happened to be born here. (only as we see below, it gets worse! you want people too sick to work frogmarched into jobs just so that you don't have to see black faces!)
>>2773608natives will not magically get more jobs if you abolish the welfare state, unless you count crime as gainful work. if you're going to buy into this kind of right-wing nonsense at least go for the minimum wage.
you'd rather drag disabled people who shouldn't be working and sit them down at a till with the threat of starvation at their back to keep them in line than bring in a bloke who's actually starving, who'd be more than happy to live on supermarket wages, and who'd send a portion of them back home. you're mental.
>>2773724(including pensions)
>>2773858>somewhere in the world right now a man is dying of starvation.could be in the UK itself; plenty of misery occurs every day.
>you're artificially subsidizedas opposed to 'naturally' subsidised? Oh wait, "subsidiZed"?
What are you doing here, you nosey yank?
>efficient system of social organization would allocate to him.how much money have you given to charity this week? take your labour aristocrat earnings and send it off to the people who need it, why dont you?
>more people means a more expensive welfare state because there are more people, obviously.you lack geometrical understanding here; if more people were equally productive, the NHS would operate by proportional returns, not diminishing returns. are you saying that immigrants are a net deficit on the NHS? i dont think so, namely for the fact that so many NHS workers are immigrants themselves.
>no pounds unless you've been employed for 5 yearsYes, we currently have naturalisation schemes for visa holders after a period of five years. all you seem to be saying is that the NHS shouldnt be free to immigrants until theyre naturalised.
>the more people in work, the more work is createdwith higher, lower or the same rate of real wages?
>our pisshead may be permanently unemployed (this is the status quo anyway!)yes, which you presume and justify, while i am saying to get the pisshead a job.
>the people of the UK should not be able to vote the people of the third world into povertyso, its not the capitalists' fault, its the greedy workers' fault? dont forget to put on your mao flag next time.
>your stated preference is for high wages hereYes, i consider myself something of a socialist
>propped up by artificial restrictionsNo, propped up by centuries of labour struggles
>who can work here based on where they were bornI never said immigrants shouldnt be here; i said that we should probably hire citizens before immigrants are hired in those positions. this is the least controversial take in the world. you are saying the opposite for some reason; that the british should stay on benefits while somalians deliver them food.
>africa is a victim of western imperialism, and one of the imperialist things the west does is ban africans from moving here!No we dont; we have millions of people from african descent in the UK, which is naturally regulated by economic demand. All you seem to be asking for is to abolish the minimum wage; thats it - thats your politics. Youre a tory.
>natives will not magically get more jobs if you abolish the welfare statei never suggested to abolish the welfare state; in fact, i think the way you get better productivity is by better subsidising labour. You think subsidising labour is evil - so you are against the welfare state. youre a walking contradiction, mate. why are higher wages exploitative against the third world but a welfare state isnt?
>>2773910re-write your reply like a normal person or go fuck yourself. you're only getting one drive by
>Yes, i consider myself something of a socialistsocialism is when you live jobs unfilled until you can find a white briton to pay £140,000 because you don't want an african doing it, especially not if he can do it for less so you can afford to pay more people to do it. "centuries of labour struggles" - for what, the aliens act 1905?
go fuck yourself.
>>2773920you are literally an uneducated maoist yank larper
get out of the thread
>>2774033kys anti-sampler spammer
Man every poll no matter who comissioned them show labour is being completely wiped out in every scenario
>>2773933>this meme is not antisemeticExactly what an antisemite would say.
>>2773910>>2773858You're both being dumb, literally anyone who wants higher wages is doing so "at the expense of other workers", just look at all the harm that strikes cause. Does that mean unions are bad? No it doesn't because nonetheless everyone needs to advocate for their rights. We should apply the same principle to countries, it's not wrong for the UK to prioritise UK citizens, every country should be prioritising their own citizens. Does that mean becoming a bandit state that attacks the rest of the world like the USA, no, but there is a reasonable level of self interest. You are not going to attract anyone by telling them "your gran died due to waiting lists? Another first world kkkrakkker down lmao". People should be entitled to expect their quality of life to improve.
On the other hand though, immigrants are not the biggest issue for the UK and it's ridiculous to hyperfocus on them. It's just a distraction that the ruling class happily puts on for us. We should be concerned about the fact that income inequality is rising every year, public services are in shambles, and corruption is absolutely endemic. Syrian refugees didn't cause any of that. If you are obsessed about immigrants you're just a fucking racist piece of shit.
>>2774761the difference is that in a strike workers withdraw their labor to extract concessions from someone in a position to pay more. with immigration controls, the state to brutalizes foreigners and prevent them from doing jobs they're perfectly capable of doing. all you have to do is vote for it and, ideally, clap like a seal.
(incidentally: my approach here is philosophically consistent: the state should not intervene in strikes, and it should not intervene in immigration.)
the idea of state or national interest is nonsense designed, in the last resort, to have you lay down your life for aristocrats and bourgeoisie unwilling to fight their own wars, unable to compete in their own endeavors without loading the dice in their direction. (say, by criminalizing sympathy strikes, or by rigging planning law so nobody can get into their market, or by setting trade restrictions favorable to their own firms - all at your expense in the form of higher prices, lower wages, and worse products.) it is ridiculous on the face of it.
you seem to be under the misconception that i am advertising an electorally viable program rather than merely setting out what is true. fundamentally: the minority does not have the right to make the majority poor. and what right does the home office have to tell foreigners that
their expectation for their quality life to improve doesn't count?
>>2774766>labor🇺🇲 OH SAY CAN YOU SEE, BY THE DAWNS EARLY LIGHT 🇺🇲
>>2774797he cannot win economically, morally, or philosophically, so he falls into a trap instead and shows his hand.
>>2774033Based. Under socialism only classical and opera will be legal musical genres. Everything else is either fascist or retarded. The USSR allowed rock and heavy metal in and then collapsed a few years later. I can only imagine how much faster it would have collapsed if Hans Zimmer and the BWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH obnoxious electronic blaring and schizo beats were around. Notice how America is in complete decline and celebrates the most retarded possible musical genres. That's causation not correlation.
>>2774802he simply misunderstands; we cannot save the world by having the whole world live in london.
>>2774804rock and pop began as a working class genre in britain with people like the beatles, but then get appropriated by the middle class with the rolling stones
>>2774839
again, this is the presumption that the UK has no working class; that we are a bandit nation who has paved our streets with gold. typical of maoists, who are mostly western "thieves" themselves.
>>2771923For the record I am opposed to racism. But it's simultaneously true that every encounter I've had with gypsies has gone negatively.
I mean every time I've encountered them in 30+ years of life, they were illegally camping on school grounds or local parks, and left a huge mound of rubbish and human waste behind, or else they've been steeling copper from old buildings in my area, or their kids came up to me out of nowhere and tried (and failed) to mug us while the parents watched on.
I am at this point plainly begging to have a single non-negative interaction with them because I refuse to believe they're all like this all the time.
>>2774826the whole world cannot and would not just move to london. people aren't robots and respond differently to different circumstances!
most people are cautious and conservative in terms of how they conduct themselves. britain is a nation of 60 million people today because, between misery here and the hope of something better in canada, australia or new zealand - all of which used to
pay you to move there and have a better life - most people chose to stay here. the mere availability of an obviously superior option wasn't enough to win out over risk aversion.
(and we're not proposing subsidizing people to fly out here - how they get here is still their problem!)
664,000 visas were rejected in all categories in 2025. the vast majority of those were visitor visa applications. if every single one came to live here permanently, that would still be less than net migration in 2022. (745,000) a plausible order of magnitude for net immigration under fairly open borders might be about a million a year, or about 1.4% added to the population… or about the same sort of migration-driven population growth as New Zealand or Australia, and much less than Canada.
and this is before you look at the countervailing forces that'd bring net numbers down. a solid chunk of the people who came here wouldn't settle permanently - they'd work, save, and then leave to make use of their savings in their origin country (either to live comfortably, or to invest), and the better their origin countries become, the weaker the pull to this damp little island becomes.
and all of this is dealing with the unlikely scenario of truly open borders. let's say the entire world would come to london if we opened the borders: fine, so why don't we unilaterally open our borders only to the first world? if a japanese scientist wants to move here, why not make it as easy as finding a job and hopping on a plane? why have the state interfere? "japan wouldn't reciprocate…" - japan's loss!
>>2774852the UK isn't a nation at all.
>>2774860every time I've encountered a Brit in 30+ years of life, I had to look away because they had a terrible smile, and left a huge mound of rubbish and human waste when their mouths should be, or else they've been stealingnickel from dental braces in my area, or their kids came up to me out of nowhere and tried (and failed) to mug us while the parents grinned with crooked grins totally devoid or any orthodontic benefit.
I am at this point plainly begging to have a single non-negative interaction with them because I refuse to believe they're all like this all the time.
>>2774860they are this way because they have basically become completely detached from UK society by virtue of living a non-rent paying life.
For better or worse everyone fucking hates them so they tend to play into it and its very much a 'us versus them' attitude which is why they dont care when there kids steal and be anti-social.
You arent going to change this dynamic by trying to be nice to them, the best thing to do for them would be to nationalize the ideological state apparatus to try and uncook the gammons hitlerite tendency towards them.
>>2774880>The UK has a bourgeois proletariat [since 1600]Apparently we earn around 1,000% more in real wages than people in 1600, yet we still have 20% of adults in poverty in the UK:
<More than 1 in 5 people in the UK (21%) were in poverty in 2022/23 – 14.3 million people. Of these, 8.1 million were working-age adults, 4.3 million were children and 1.9 million were pensioners. To put it another way, around 2 in every 10 adults are in poverty in the UK, with about 3 in every 10 children being in poverty.https://www.jrf.org.uk/uk-poverty-2025-the-essential-guide-to-understanding-poverty-in-the-ukSo how much poorer were people back then? during the industrial revolution, work days could be 16 hours long and life expectancy was 40 years old. such benefits the working class reaped!
>>2774882>Why should anyone care about the British working class? </leftybritpol/…>>2774874>people aren't robots and respond differently to different circumstancesYes they do; its called material incentives - people travel to where they can get more money like birds fly to where they can get food.
>the mere availability of an obviously superior option wasn't enough to win outso, what is the cause of people emigrating to the UK? cos they want to see big ben and buckingham palace?
>truly open borders.which is an incoherent concept. borders occur at the threshold of property, so you can only access that which has a right of way or right of purchase. "open borders" is just a euphemism for lowering wages then, since that is what facilitates an expanding capacity for employment (barring a consideration of national birth rates).
>if a japanese scientist wants to move here, why not make it as easy as finding a job and hopping on a plane? why have the state interfere?You keep bringing up doctors and scientists; what about low-skilled workers?
>>2774913you are the worst kind of braindead imbecile. if material incentives operated the way you imagine, nobody would live here. the point is not to account for why people move (obviously
they responded to the incentive!) it is to emphasize the much larger number who didn't and don't! even when borders were open in the EU, a huge number of people stayed in poverty in eastern europe instead of coming here and going on the dole.
w
don't try to play word games, you're not clever enough for it. as for low skilled workers: they're more than welcome too. what else did you expect? i'd much rather talk to a gentleman from somalia when i've got a problem than run up against a cretin like yourself.
>>2774886Correct. The Nations are England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Island and etc
>>2774964>if material incentives operated the way you imagine, nobody would live herewhy not? we still have a lot of national wealth; its just dwindling.
>even when borders were open in the EU, a huge number of people stayed in poverty in eastern europe instead of coming here and going on the dole.most eastern european immigrants filled job visas. what is interesting though is that we currently see massive amounts of illegal immigration into the UK from albania.
>as for low skilled workers: they're more than welcome toowhat if theres not enough jobs?
>i'd much rather talk to a gentleman from somalia when i've got a problem than run up against a cretin like yourself.any somalian will do? dont somalian cretins exist as well?
BREAKING NEWS:
The NHS is reforming it's transgender health services, declaring that one must be at least 25 years old to access the "adult pathway", and therefore hormones, etc.
This now means - according to the government - there is now such a thing as a 25 year old child.
You can join the military, vote, and drive at 16.
You can get a tattoo or get breast implants (if you're cisgender) at 16 too.
But if you identify as trans you must wait an additional 9 years more than cis people before being considered a grown-up capable of being really sure about your own decisions.
This can only be understood as a decision designed to inflict the maximum possible harm against the trans community.
There is not scientific basis for this. The cruelty is the point.
>>2775039>17-25 year-olds make up 61% of new referrals and 66% of people on a waiting list for a first appointment at a UK gender clinic, according to data obtained through a series of Freedom of Information (FOI) requests. https://www.wearequeeraf.com/gender-clinic-files-two-thirds-of-adults-waiting-for-transgender-healthcare-in-uk-are-under-25/So theyre just waiting it out, hoping that the phase passes in the meantime.
>>2774980because they would've all migrated to canada/australia/nz where - i say again -
they used to pay you to move theremost eastern europeans didn't need visas at all, that's the point of free movement. we had free movement with romania, yet the vast majority of romanians stayed in romania instead of leaving to the rich countries.
your entire conception of jobs is wrong. they are not a fixed resource like say - gold bars - where giving one to someone simply means there's one less gold bar out there for you. employing one person increases their purchasing power and creates the demand that creates further jobs. if we imported the ideal worker for every current UK vacancy, the effect on native employment next year would be positive.
but let's take the opposite view for fun: let's say there's only so many jobs. why have immigration restriction stop at the UK border? why should scots take english jobs by moving down to london? why should londoners be allowed to take mancunian jobs? why should people from bradford be allowed to take jobs from people in leeds? why, indeed, should i not have the right of first refusal to any jobs going in the corner shop at the end of my street, rather than them hiring someone from two blocks over? do i, as a local, have no rights?
>>2775039got a source? i don't disbelieve you (they're "reviewing effectiveness" and you know that policy-based-evidence being what it is, they're only going to conclude one way) but google gives me nothing.
anyway, since i'm on a roll with popular positions today: this is why private healthcare isn't as bad as it seems. in an ideal world, the state would not have the capacity to exercise this kind of control and adults would be trusted to make their own decisions after reading the warning labels.
>>2775058the comically bleak thing is that i bet they'll leave all those <25 people on the waiting list. e.g. if you're 26 and waiting for hormones, you'll be made to wait on a years long queue behind those waiting for a first appointment for… no treatment whatsoever.
>>2775060>if we imported the ideal worker for every current UK vacancy, the effect on native employment next year would be positive.yes i agree; but we have limited positions, and limited options.
>why have immigration restriction stop at the UK border? why should scots take english jobs by moving down to london? why should londoners be allowed to take mancunian jobs? We are all part of a common territory and jurisdiction.
>do i, as a local, have no rights?You don't actually, since an employer chooses who gets hired; i personally think this is wrong, and that we need universal employment opportunities rather than a constricted and competitive labour market. why do you need so many qualifications to work an entry level position?
>>2775072While I could interpret this as an attack on healthcare for under 25s, I would need more proof. Can I have an explanation of how exactly the transphobic scheme here would work.
>>2775088Ok after reading that the Cass report said that under 25s shouldn't transition and should be stuck under child services, I 100% believe this is another phase of the attack on trans people (and probably ADHD/autism too).
Why doesn't the NHS worry more about the hospitals where there's ambulances lined up outside every single day because of a lack of capacity? Foul fucking TERF cunts.
>>2775101not to mention the fact that 0.5% (1 in 200) people in the UK identify as trans, and 0.1% (1 in 1000) people identify as trans women. the hysteria around this group is massively disproportionate.
>>2775106Wait does that mean there's 4 times as many transmen? Or just that they some consider themselves trans but not transitioned?
>>2775114I see, makes sense.
Much like people who can't stop going on about immigrants, the people who obsess over trans people need to get a life.
>>2775128Honestly what's with the people who say they wanna vote Labour or Libdems… Like are they regarded. How much clearer can they make the spin.
>>2775128I want to see what kind of GB News viewer is voting Green
>>2775134schizos who are into environmentalism crystals, meditation, astrology, but also anti-immigration.
>>2775135>>2775136Must be this. People who have to watch rightoid slop to make content opposing it, and people who still believe 5G towers are going to kill 90% of the population any minute now.
>>2775316They couldn't book Kneecap or something instead?
>>2776040Imagine you want to see Kanye playing his greatest hits live and you get some shitty provincial ira punk band instead… I'd be blowing up the place like it's Omagh
Flood the First World (which includes Arab Monarchies, PRC and more developed parts of Asia and LatAm) with 666 millions of refugees who will never leave and tell the mayo clittycels to STFU lest they get thrown into a rape dungeon with the vantablackest, tallest, girthiest men with biggest, slickest BBCs imaginable.
>>2775140Who the fuck is this poshy soy-infused soyboy and what is he malding about? Is he one of those who constantly leak about DA WOOOOOOOOKE le destroying DA WOOOOOOOSTERN CIV?
>>2776066Guy has exactly two great tracks, Power and uygha Heil Hitler, everything else is easily forgettable.
>>27733861: insane take to compare the 19th century to now in terms of migration. Most people didn't even leave their localities. You can literally see posters from Marx's era bitching and moaning about railways starting to allow the trickle in of Londoners to Brighton.
2:Britian absolutely has a lot to worry about, it's an environmentally raped to death island as it is.
3:No you judge by retarded Neoliberal nonsense.
4: Yes they absolutely do, entire communities do it, want to know what the vast majority of blacks, Muslims etc families have a median WEALTH of <40k? Because the majority of them are on welfare and in council housing. The average working class brit family still has over 100k in wealth, because they work and have a car and atleast a small flat. Also if you know the right things to say, you ARE better off on welfare in the UK, than any job that is below <50k wage. I've lived with plenty of people mooching off welfare, who got over double my wage at the time in bennies.
5: It could, but it won't and you know that. We don't have infrastructure to support population as it is, and you support straight up open borders and insta-citizenship before anything is even built or any other changes are made.
6: dumb
7: dumb, just say what you really believe, The UK should be dissolved as a political entity and become some sort of Libertarian special economic zone.
Again the fact you people try to hide your oikophobia and hatred of the UK and native brits in such bullshit is so transparent.
>>2777517- "people didn't leave their localities…. except the mass of internal migration which was so strong we now take it as a natural right!!!" listen to yourself. do you not see you are proving my point: people didn't like that railways took people from london to brighton, people didn't like that easyjet took romanians from buccharest to london. the correct response in both cases is: if you don't like it then you leave. we didn't require londoners to apply for a visa to move to brighton! we didn't indulge the "reasonable concerns" of the people of brighton by locking up londoners in prison and then deporting them to some far-flung hellhole for having the audacity to buy a train ticket!
- our environmental problems largely stem from inane bullshit. water companies in fake markets pouring shit into the sea because they know the state will ultimately cave and fix their pipes, arbitrary protection for agricultural land because it looks green, barratt building new tracts of leaky homes because for all the hype about newts planning law strongly prefers building on green land over densifying existing areas and upsetting existing property owners.
- you accuse me of neoliberal nonsense, then adopt the stupidest ideas of neoliberals! the real working class are asset rich while all the minorities are moochers! (it couldn't possibly be a selection effect like "half the people we consider working class are old asset holders with silly accents, while minorities and young people, as a function of arriving post right to buy, are asset poor")* insofar as anyone is better off on welfare: that's the state's fault! maybe don't set asinine rules like the UC taper rate and withdrawal of means-tested discount still making you worse off in work. indeed, maybe stop fucking with people and go straight to UBI/NIT
- if you assume the state will step back from border control, it is not unreasonable to assume that it will step back from excessive meddling in infrastructure construction too. "the government is fucking everything up, so we should keep letting them fuck up thing-a because if we allow thing-a, they'll fuck up consequence-b" stupid.
- you have no response because you know we lack the state capacity for the government to solve our existing problems. "step back and allow people to try new things because they know about their immediate circumstances better than you do" - god, how radical.
- i have said what i really believe. you get points for being the first person to notice my argument is more libertarian than maoist. i don't necessarily think the UK should be abolished as a political entity, i think that it's already failed as a nation-state but could still do well if it was willing to take the lead on something after the nation state. as for oikophobia: in the first instance, i must reiterate someone else's point that it is not oikophobia to dislike people who are different to you. in the second: it is not oikophobia to believe all people should be treated fairly as individuals instead of arbitrarily brutalized by the state on the basis of where they were born. if a native makes a good consultant dermatologist - great! but if he doesn't, don't put him near my skin just because he's eligible for DEI hiring via his blue passport.
- 5 think your points through as a coherent whole: if mass immigration will lead to a housing shortage because the state won't step back from interfering in densification and planning, then the price of housing will go up. if most native brits own at least a flat, this means most native brits will be richer. so rich, perhaps, that they become eligible for a trump card or NZ investor visa or one of the many other rich-people cut outs for emigration (if they hate it) or can otherwise extract wealth from their massively appreciated asset through reverse mortgages, deals to hand over the property on death in exchange for cash now, etc. not a bad deal!
*you're wrong by the way: while muslims are the largest group in council housing, only 26% live in it. moreover their high unemployment is mostly down to student status and unpaid care work (13% of muslims are students vs 5.4% of christians, 7.4% of irreligious people, and 7.3% for england and wales as a whole), rather than welfare mooching. meanwhile 78% of sikhs, 68% of hindus, and own their home vs 63% for england and wales as a whole. showing that this is an age thing: "no religion" is at 59%, while "christian" is on 69. to get those figures, the logical paths are: 1. african christians own their homes at a remarkable rate, or 2. natives are more likely to be irreligious the younger they get (though even many middle aged/older people are atheists now.)
>>2777517We should just kill 90% of Angloids to stop the environmental problems. There, your shitty rainy speck of land isn't overpopulated or polluted nearly as much anymore.
global free movement would solve the aging population problem. instead of warehousing people in care homes, or having people leave work to care for relatives, you could send them to resort-style care facilities in the developing world where their purchasing power is higher and medical care is cheaper. the inflow of elderly british capital would drive economic development (and visiting family/relatives would boost the tourism sector, which is what many such countries are already trying to do), the outflow of retirees would free up housing in britain, the cost of meeting pension obligations etc could be reduced (who needs the triple lock when your cost of living just dropped 80%?), and the pressures on the NHS would be massively alleviated because the elderly are disproportionately sick. (and it's not like they're being sent abroad to die: they'll get private-quality care abroad at knock-down prices instead of languishing on an NHS waiting list.)
it's not just a question of immigrants being better placed in britain: a lot of britons would be happier elsewhere if they were allowed and if they could afford it - and elsewhere would be happy to have them!
>>2777620Why dont you move to the developing world, then?
>>2777636because doing so is a regulatory nightmare, because doing so without taking a drop in my standard of living would be difficult in the current closed-borders world, and because i'm not a retiree in such a world.
were 2/3 of those to change, i'd seriously consider it.
>>2777620>global free movement would solve the aging population problem. instead of warehousing people in care homes, or having people leave work to care for relatives, you could send them to resort-style care facilities in the developing world where their purchasing power is higher and medical care is cheaper.the treatlerite cries out in pain upon being asked to care for his dying parents, and instead demands that they be exported to another country for third world slaves to do the labor instead.
>>2777643the treatlerite warehouses his parents in a damp care home where they're looked after by Filipinos on minimum wage. since this is going to happen regardless, you must answer seriously: why not send the old to the Philippines? it's cheaper for the treatlerite, for the old person (which doesn't just mean "oh great, more money for treats", it means people can be choosier and stay in a nicer place!), and for the british worker (by abolishing the triple lock). there's a more agreeable climate and more scope to build nice facilities, and it means the Filipinos can be paid high wages by Philippine standards*
and keep more of their wages (because they're paying Philippine food costs and not giving most of their income to a slum landlord with a damp right-to-buy buy-to-let ex-council house) and spend them in the Philippines.
*even if you bristle at the unfairness of those wages being lower than UK wages: they're higher than current Philippine wages! the world has trade offs! call this evil if you want,
it's less evil than the status quo! that's before you get into the negative economic impact of unpaid care on UK GDP, productivity, etc.. (we won't because i already know you won't engage with the argument, you'll just go "GDP and productivity aren't real and they're bad if they are real", then go back to wondering why Britain is in terminal decline.)
>>2776066Look I used to love Kanye when I was 15 but it's been decades since his glory days and I don't really get why anyone would want to go to a concert from a neonazi in the first place. I was just making a joke about anti semitism by suggesting Kneecap, I've never listened to them so idk.
>>2777643Honestly it's not a terrible solution. Should we have more multigenerational living, yes, but how can that square with how judgemental most of the older generations are? And just have general societal idea that if you live with your parents you're a loser etc? Do we really want to have a system like India etc where the children live at the beck and call of the parents? Furthermore many elderly issues are exacerbated by bad lifestyle, do you want someone to put their life on hold because their dad/mum smoked and drank to excess for 40 years and now their health is fucked up?
I think the best model is 'dementia villages' like they have in Europe some places, where the residents have their own little apartment and can go out to walk in the "park" and even go to a "shop" which is run by the staff, so they can have a semblance of their old life while being safe and supported. Of course if an elderly person does not have mental deterioration it may be more appropriate for them to stay in their home or in a residential environment which is more 'free' and lets them go out etc.
Basically while I think it is nice for people to take care of their parents, in the abstract, I don't think it should be enforced by society, I mean what if your parents beat you or threw you out of the house at 16, do you really have to look after them for maybe 20-30 years?
>>2777648To add to this, to claim carers allowance you're supposed to be looking after someone for 35 hours per week. Yet, they take this money out of your universal credit so you don't even actually get higher money. There's also UC carers element but that is hugely under claimed because people don't know about it and the jobcentre won't tell you what benefits you're entitled to. Even if you do get it it's only £250/month or so IIRC. So if you care for someone you are going to get way less money than you would if you just worked a minimum wage job. How does that make any sense if we want people to look after their relatives? If you have to do it for 35 hours a week (which is a ridiculous standard) then you basically can't have a job while doing it. It doesn't make economic sense.
>>2774766Of course nationalism is a racket but at the same time, while we live in nations, we should expect those nations to care for the wellbeing of their citizens since that's their supposed ideological justification. Of course the state or the nation or whatever is primarily there to support the bourgeois of that particular area but that doesn't matter in this context. Once again it's the difference between telling someone "oh your gran died because of waiting lists? I dunno what you expected since the nation is bourgeois, skill issue", and saying "yeah, it's messed up what has happened to the NHS, we were promised cradle to the grave but you can't even see a GP or a dentist. We need to organise ourselves to demand the government increase funding (etc)". Which one is more productive?
I'm all for open borders, one day, but for now, if we had no citizenship requirements for public services and benefits etc then why wouldn't tens of millions of people come here each year from various destitute places in the world just to claim benefits? That would be totally socially destructive. I think that having some kind of immigration control is just sensible under the current system. We need a middle position on this and not to be drawn into overcommitment to free movement of labour. It's another culture war.
>>2777648>>2777654>Elderly people in complete mental and physical decline will be well provided for and cared for in a foreign land with a different culture and language, and totally won't be robbed ASAP by desperate lumpens 1 month into their "retirement"kill treatlerites
behead treatlerites
curb stomp treatlerites
>>2777667Here’s a middle position for ya: Complete moratorium on immigration + total ban on dual citizenship and “dark money” donations.
I think the moratorium should be extended not just to immigrants from developed countries, but from developed ones as well + the rest of the commonwealth, even for British people born abroad because, frankly, there’s no point in having tethers coming to the UK and lobbying for reactionary politics like austerity like they usually do.
It would also drive social conflict from being ethnic vs ethnic to class vs class as that would deprive the borgies of their stranglehold on public opinion. Much like in Poland, in a low-migration situation due to moratoriums, the reactionaries would have to pivot their culture war BS from non-white people to trans people and alleged welfare queens.
Also, you can tell leftists that it’s not racist because Anglos are banned too, while you can tell chuds that it’s not “oikophobic” or anti-white because non-whites are banned too. Very neat, innit?
As for the “dark money”: A lot of the reactionary media in Britain is heavily supported by shady hedge fund managers (like Ligatum which is behind Unherd and GB news) and foreign oligarchic actors like Elon Musk who funnel their puppets’ funds via “dark money”. Case in point, the various propagandistic think tanks at 55 Tufton Street:
https://democracyforsale.substack.com/p/anti-trade-union-law-dark-money-tufton-streetGetting at the bottom of this would solve many problems concerning brainrot in UK society, as well as clean up corruption. As for Elon, I think London might need an actual Stalin willing to put an arrest warrant on Musk if he ever decides to step foot on British soil as well as arrest foreign agents like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, street brawler and scammer as well as an Israeli and American agent, alongside the lumpen who can terrorise the working class thanks to oligarchs and foreign powers bailing them out (with probable assistance from the British government).
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>>2777675have you never seen a British colony in spain before?
>>2777667Sup my 420chan brethren. God, I miss that site. Fucking Kirt ruined everything with his fucking habit.
>>2777667we had open borders with the poorest areas of eastern europe while in the EU and yet most eastern europeans didn't leave, and those who came here overwhelmingly worked instead of going on the dole despite entitlement not being tightened up until later. a solid chunk of people prefer the certainty of languishing in poverty where they are instead of gambling on moving. you can already see this domestically, or historically with the large numbers of people who
didn't take the advantage to leave for one of Britain's settler colonies.
that said: most benefits and public services already check your eligibility, and many visas don't give you eligibility to receive public funds. one could have open borders with a welfare state conditional on citizenship, settled status, or a history of contributions. the two issues are separate questions. (and while a two tier welfare state would create some visible ugliness, it would be much better than the invisible evils of the status quo.)
there is no "we" to think of here (this is not an electoral program, it is a more fundamental point. practically speaking, it's also an exercise in questioning fundamental assumptions) and there is no real culture war: even most pro-immigration people do not believe in open borders because they allow themselves to be indexed, as you do, to the status quo. if in 1905 we'd imposed controls on internal population movement as well as external, you'd now be decrying my radicalism in thinking we should seriously allow the entire country to move to London if they so choose.
green party policy would be to make permits available more easily and to split the home office in 3 (internal affairs, internal migration, external migration), and that would be the height of their imagination.
>>2777745>a solid chunk of people prefer the certainty of languishing in poverty where they are instead of gambling on moving.As well as local obligations of socially reproductive labour, raising children, caring for
parents/grandparents, wider community obligations and so on.
>>2777745There's a huge difference between Poland and say a lot of African countries. Even back then. Obviously not everyone in the entire world would move but many would.
If you're suggesting that there should be open borders but still a system of citizenship, I mean I guess that's not as outrageous but I feel like that's not what most people mean when they say borders should be abolished. At least that would stop people coming to claim benefits but it still wouldn't stop the dilution of the labour market. It would push up rents and so on and push down wages. Obviously I'm not saying zero immigration is the right policy either but we should have a balance. There's no excuse for the cruelty of the immigration system but if asylum claims and so on were processed faster it would be better for everyone.
>>2777745Also; I don't know much about the things you're talking about regarding internal migration in the past, but I would say that possibly there were a lot of problems caused by allowing all of the economic vitality of the country to flow into London alone. Maybe some controls might have been better. Or maybe not, but it's not like it's a completely obvious conclusion either way.
There's a lot of things that have ruined this country and immigration isn't the biggest one but it is at least connected to some of the other reasons.
Apparently all ABDL content is going to be illegal soon thanks to the latest frigid cunts bill in parliament. Whoopie.
>>2777986Will England ever cool it with the sexual repression?
>>2777987No. It will keep going and never stop, the government will lock you up for being a nonce if you say "daddy" in bed. Nobody will be able to oppose it or the tabloids will get someone to murder them. I am sure they will soon go after furries too.
>>2777992Just have the NHS spay and castrate everyone at this point
>>2777995castration can support transgender identity, so even that is off the table
>>2778013they'll cut off your dick but not the balls so you still get that test coming in
Belgian authorities just seized an undeclared weapons shipment from the UK to Israel.
>>2777995It would be the humane choice honestly.
At the very least though, how about we go after those fucking rape smut books that women like? I mean that's unjust too but at least let's have some balance ey?
>>2771675when did the bourgeoisie's values get reduced to sucking jew cock?
i'd feel bad for them if they didn't exploit my labour power
>>2778271Because western powers have geopolitical interest in Israel existance and want the public to support it.
https://archive.is/XbvNj>UKVI carries out discretionary “credibility interviews” to ascertain that a student’s intentions to study here are genuine.>In another interview, when asked why they had chosen to apply to their chosen institution, the applicant said they had considered several factors, including the university’s ranking, employability support, student satisfaction while also noting that it was an ancient institution and cited the year it was founded.
>The UKVI rejected the application, explaining that they were not satisfied the applicant was genuine given they had quoted the wrong founding year. The university subsequently confirmed that the applicant had provided the correct year and the UKVI caseworker was incorrect, but the decision could not be reconsidered.
>In another case a foreign student was rejected from obtaining a visa to study at the University of East Anglia due to a dispute over whether the university was in Norfolk. The applicant asserted correctly that it was, but the UKVI caseworker appeared to confuse Norfolk with Norwich, which is the capital of the county, and rejected the application — believing the applicant was wrong.
>In another credibility interview the applicant was asked to describe some of the taught modules they would be studying as part of their degree. The applicant explained that they had been offered a place to study a PhD in biomedical engineering which was fully research-based so did not have any taught modules.>Despite this, the UKVI refusal letter stated that they were not satisfied on the basis that their answers were “vague and generic” and had failed to explain the taught modules they would be studying.the world immigration restrictionists have wrought.
(but remember, if you think an overseas student who's done their research and wants to give the country money and skills belongs here more than a moron who doesn't know their own country's geography but has somehow blundered into a nice desk job that they're now fucking up, you're oikophobic.)
>>2778271When did The Alchemist say anything anti-Palestinian?
>>2778271I have never heard anyone in hip hop say anything negative about Alc.
Corbyn just killed YP lol.
>>2779203the funniest thing is that it's impossible to prove you're
not a member of a prescribed party, so it's basically carte blanche to ditch anyone the clique don't like
>>2778013It's funny cause it's true…
>>2779173I mean it was already dead, but he and Karie do seem determined to leave no trace behind of it with how aggresively they're alienating anyone and everyone who had any interest or hope in it.
Personal theory is that since they're set on just being a personal patronage network for Corbyn, they want to drive the maximum number of people away and remove any chance of there being branches or any membership that isn't passive boomers who don't know how to cancel their debit, so that they can make the substantial funds they do have from the initial interest last for as long as possible for Karie and her mates to pay themselves fat salaries and pensions.
>>2779173Can we put Corbyn to sleep for good now? He's a weak man and a weak politician who caved to insane kahanists like a little bitch he was never fit to be the leader of anything.
>>2780253I think that’d make anyone anti-capitalist
>>2780253She's a massive Zionist and has very little contact with Zack afaik
>>2780253That's Byron Noem
Your Party Scotland's entire executive just resigned and are now saying they'll start their own separate party lol
>>2780421Scots comitted the cardinal sin of not trusting the wisdom of Karie Murphy and have paid the price.
Scottish Labour are running on a TERF manifesto but it probably won't hurt their support because anyone who isn't an outright reactionary left them more than a decade ago.
>>2780423Irony is that they did and sacrificed a guaranteed MSP in Glasgow. Yorp CEC imperially fucked this up.
>>2780423>Karie Murphy This
>>2780638i think about her and feel bad sometimes. to throw away a guaranteed seat as an MSP to take a punt on winning with a party you prefer and then losing the election is one thing, but to resign and then not even be allowed to stand for election under the new party, not even for factional reasons - just out of sheer incompetence on the part of people a thousand miles away, people you'd mistakenly put your confidence in. that's incredibly unfair.
>>2781121people have been trolling rightoids with these and theyre furious lol
the NHS should've been broken up and controlled by local authorities back when we had the state capacity to administer such a change.
>but what about rare conditions where it's not viable to have a treatment center in every council area?
we already deal with this because scotland/wales/NI have separate NHS organizations (not even called "NHS" in NI!) and the ostensibly monolithic NHS actually has relgional boards etc. it's perfectly possible for different organizations to collaborate. the question is just: should they all answer to london/edinburgh/cardiff/belfast, or should they answer to the places they're actually based in?
>>2781215aren't most of them like almost real
>>2781221i don't really get the whole british obsession with centralized services or over-regulation, all it has ever done is cause problems and lead to a subpar healthcare system that could do a lot better, though i am a bit of a hypocrite given i'm from australia which has fucked its own otherwise great public health system completely
>>2781222originally they were but people realised how gullible these boomers are and started making fake ones to wind up them and they're getting mad now saying they're going to vote for rupert
>>2781223a theory i quite like is that it all comes down to the tension between northern and southern england. the south wants to keep power for itself, and it was seething that the industrial revolution happened in the north, leading the north to build parallel institutions (e.g. strong local councils to do things national governments wouldn't, worker's mutual funds, railways, private industry, etc.), so a lot of ostensibly progressive reform also that the underlying motivation of centralizing control back where it belonged, in London. first this mainly affected industry (e.g. railways were turned into 4 big companies all based in London even before they were nationalized, then post-war a lot of industry was nationalized which also centralized control in london), but then as we move from postwar modernism to thatcherism, her main
actual goal was to strip power and autonomy from local councils. (e.g. councils were literally banned from using the money from right-to-buy council houses to build more council houses, regional development bodies and public transport executives were closed, etc.)
the fun test case is that scotland generally outperforms northern england (despite starting from a similar or arguably worse baseline) because - being a nation - it was better able to conceptualize this threat and fight/lobby against it to retain local autonomy (even pre devolution via the Scotland office), although this ultimately took a slightly odd form. (most of scotland's bourgeoisie voluntarily fled to london for bigger markets, leaving behind a social structure where the top strata are public servants. hence why devolution has basically nothing in terms of economic powers, but a lot of administrative power over the public sector.)
Gastropub Groyper has followed You
Being Racist At Greggs Groyper has liked Your reply
The Road to Wigan Kebab Groyper has followed You
>>2781224Apparently Restore are saying they're going to abolish the triple lock pension, might vote for them lol
>>2781264They literally ran an advert on the BBC just yesterday claiming they're the only party that will keep the triple lock.
The entire advert was clearly targeting the 70 - 100 demographic, which I guess is at least better than the AI generated ads they used to run.
>>2781229>>2781223>>2781221Forgive my ignorance, but aren’t austerity and underfunding the main issues for the NHS?
After all, many of the problems Brits have with the NHS began when George Osborne and David Cameron gave it less money at levels unforeseen before then, with the underfunding leading to staff shortage, stagnant budgets, long waiting lists that leads to being unable to meet rising demands.
You cannot run a universal healthcare system on stagnant funding while demand rises. Period.
As already said, the NHS is already decentralised at a regional level, so I’m not sure if further decentralisation is needed as that would create trade-offs such as inequality in terms of access and services such as “postcode lottery” and risks encouraging further fragmentation.
So we shouldn’t ask ourselves how much centralisation or decentralisation is necessary, that would be missing the mark. Instead we have to ask:
> Who controls resources, and how much is there? >>2781315
capitalist realism
>>2781312if you have a hypercentralized program that is inefficient, then even with good funding it's not gonna be as good as a decentralized system
>>2781315
Same can said for the gerontocracies across the west.
>>2781365
for what? disagreeing with you about your terminally online hobby?
>>2781373
Right, because you certainly seem politically responsible
>>2781312while underfunding is an issue, it's talked to death and easy to fix. (move the budget slider to the right)
a more interesting and still-extant issue is that the NHS simply is not accountable at the scale its at. regional boards are meaningless because they don't have real public input or accountability. they're administrative territories only
the sort of issue you have to consider is glasgow's 200+ year waiting list for a gender clinic appointment. if your reference scale is "glasgow", that is an issue that can be taken seriously. one Councillor raises the issue, someone gets onto a manager about the problem, the manager fixes the problem to not be asked again. if your reference scale is "all of scotland", it will fall by the wayside, as it has.
the fixes to that issue, without a penny of extra funding, are trivial: adopt a new model of care with less bottlenecks (which glasgow should have the autonomy to do), or send people to other health boards where the waiting lists are shorter and the service is functional. this is possible under the current administrative structure (the island health boards, for example, send patients to glasgow's 200 year waiting list because there's no island GICs) but there's no incentive for glasgow to make use of it. it would mean weakening their fiefdom to bolster someone else's.
we already have a postcode lottery. to stick with the gender clinic example: the waiting list in most other scottish health boards is under 5 years. it is as close to a textbook study in inequality of access as you can find, without any good geographical justification (edinburgh > glasgow is perhaps the best rail corridor in the UK!). the question is: should the decisions about your postcode be accountable to people living in that postcode and elected by that postcode, or accountable to people across your country? for healthcare i say: local.
(and some of the inequalities are, in a sense, "good" - if glagsow wants a worse health service so it can have better bus services, let glasgow do that! why should edinburgh or london decide that ratio for them?)
centralization or decentralization is one of the fundamental questions in the UK, and one that leftists love to get wrong because it's tempting to think: well,
we'll just take over london and then make all the correct instructions. if you let local areas do things for themselves, they might fuck it up! better that
we fuck it up instead.
(your party is a worked example here! the scottish and welsh wings couldn't run in their respective elections because the authority to do so wasn't in scotland and wales!!)
"who controls resources" is the fundamental question of centralization and decentralization. as it stands, the answer is invariably "someone far far away".
>>2781367playing on this: while decentralization will breed failure, it will also breed successes, and those successes can then be rolled out more broadly.
e.g. let's say glasgow tries a new way of doing gender care, more like the US model. if it works, every other health board can adopt it, save money, and cut waiting lists, while only glasgow took a risk. if it fails for some reason, you're still up on the status quo because the current system has completely failed in glasgow - so every health board gains the knowledge that the US model doesn't work here, while glasgow more or less retains the status-quo outcome.
the bigger and more centralized the system, the harder it is to experiment and try new things, and the more issues are thrown to the wayside because there's a bigger problem at a higher level. (who has time to care about waiting lists in glasgow when the entire country is suffering the fallout of the Iran war?)
that's why almost everything should be decided at the lowest level possible: because they're much more likely to have time for it.
also, sticking with the gender theme: it should not be possible for a central government like Starmer's to impose policy based evidence on the entire NHS in one go based on the issue being too marginal to swing a national election. decentralizing doesn't guarantee that some councils wouldn't be governed by deranged bigots, but it does make it much more likely that every health board will be bound by the whims of a prejudiced health secretary. >>2781315
the pensioners have sons and daughters who will inherit their wealth and then use that wealth to beat you to a pulp
>>2781395On the last point it also means if you dont like it you can just leave to a city with progressive policies. I think this type of thing works granted we have enough cheap houses to move people around like that.
>>2781422
>work till you die and you will own nothing
sounds appealing, even Mao had the good sense to make the pension age in the 50s.
>>2781442
I bet youre very productive
>>2781442
Welcome to the thread Mr Mosley
>>2781455
Neck yourself social darwnist fash retard
>>2781461
>they think the evil cabal of dementia ridden pensioners are to blame and not the upper class
>>2781451
fascist rhetoric
>>2781471
>They’re part of that ruling class
i'm not sure our nans in shitty council homes are part of the ruling class
Fucking retard.
>>2781485lets also not get into how all the wealth the pensioner class has gets extracted by care homes ran by the upper class that charge them 2k a week to stay in and require they sell off any wealth they acquire.
Anyone getting any inheritance to begin with is already worth over 10 million, otherwise that shits getting cashed in by the care home owners.
Maybe people will finally understand that liberalism and Trotskyism doesn't work.
>>2781493yea, my nan died with nothing. this is all beyond silly lol.
>>2781510Its IDpol, its predictable people hold this view point because it potently becomes an easy scapegoat for why everything is shit, rather than it just being diversions from class analysis.
>>2781451production is a means, not an end.
this is one thing bourgeois economists understand better than marxists.
>>2781514>>2781485there is, tbf, a real problem with (a) disproportionate resources going to elderly* and (b) elderly people being radicalized by right-wing brainrot while turning out to vote in high numbers.
*in aggregate. within the elderly, there are some very poor people and some very rich people.
>>2781451
you have the time to shitpost on this redundant 8chan board and you are complaining about inefficiency, as though you are herbert spencer sending children down the mines? stop the larp.
>>2781522
where do you think pensions come from..?
>>2781278Really? I heard there was some drama where Restore was saying that Reform are too anti young people and suck up to pensioners too much, and aren't radical and racist enough basically
>>2781564
>paycheck
>>2781564
>paycheck
YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE
YANK YANK GO AWAY
>>2781565this is true
though too many people turn off their brains and imagine that proletarian = good and non-proletarian = evil in a moralizing sense, which isn't true.
>>2781570britain is a yank colony and if we had any sense we'd admit it and become the 51st state. then we'd still be a yank colony but we wouldn't be poor.
>>2781570Sorry I meant
>puayescheque >>2781570Bro I write paycheck too, because I'm not a fag who uses Qs unnecessarily.
>>2781570tbh its more that they said they work in a steel factory and believe in killing anyone not wage slaving for the western empires that clue me into them being a burger.
>>2781573Totally, just like all the other proxies of America.
>>2781584You will be the first against the wall shithead.
>>2781484These people are insane and I don't get it because they don't appear to be the ones actually going to meetings??
>>2781550Its a real issue sure but to then turn around and say its the pensioners doing this and not the people manipulating them is retarded and leads you down nonsense alley and up fucker road as you can see in the stunning analysis done by this threads american untermench
>>2781733Also the solution to this is obviously just nationalizing care homes and housing instead of just feeding yourself into the factory machine as sacrifice as soon as you can no longer pull levers
scottish green manifesto is out for those paying attention
So, what should the British left do about the upcoming fascist march in London that is being planned on May the 16th?
Ngl, I think it’s disappointing how last year lumpenprole wignats managed to exploit TfL closures to litter and squat in London whilst spewing their hate. Feels like Oswald Mosley tbh, especially with that big screen of Nazi plutocrat Elon trying to incite a civil war in Albion to replace Starmer with one of his own puppets.
Because like it or not, a pan-left alliance is what’ll take to push back against the oligarch-funded mockingbird reactionary influencer network and its lumpen terrorists trying to turn the UK into an economic zone for the USA to loot. Remember, both Farage and Lowe are servile to the globalist American empire, especially to Trump. Elon, like much of his class, is a rootless cosmopolitan and a tether (to borrow from African American slang) to both the British isles and America.
>>2781755honestly probably nothing like 2000 people will show up to it like always and then they will be protected by the police while counter protestors throw stuff at them.
>>2781742nothingburger wishlist.
>>2781755Join the Palestine one the same day the state is trying to shut down.
>>2781761they've got a reasonable chance of being the 3rd biggest party in holyrood and a non-zero chance of getting budget concessions from the SNP (the SNP are currently polling for a majority, but they're broke and have basically no activists, so whether they win as big on FPTP as everyone seems to think is actually a very open question.)
plus they provide a good baseline for what the best wishlist on offer is, so you can compare it to scottish labour's mix of boring and evil, the SNP's big pile of padding by listing their previous achievements followed by a small list of nothing, the tories probable pile of evil with one part "actually interesting idea and not totally evil while philosophical conservative", and reform's likely opportunism. oh, and the lib dems. i forgot the lib dems. lol.
https://goodlawproject.org/ehrc-forced-to-change-trans-guidance-after-good-law-project-challenge/A year of the government telling private individuals to forgo freedom of association and "follow the law" by banning transgender people from public life in accordance with guidance (not "the law", non-binding guidance) drawn up by anti-trans cranks, followed by actually looking at the law (even as amended by the supreme court legislating from the bench) and finding it doesn't actually say you have to do that.
>>2781772>they've got a reasonable chance of being the 3rd biggest party in holyrood and a non-zero chance of getting budget concessions from the SNP (the SNP are currently polling for a majority, but they're broke and have basically no activists, so whether they win as big on FPTP as everyone seems to think is actually a very open question.)Are you an idiot they have literally had this since 2021…
>>2778271Making an album entitled “Israeli Salad” doesn’t entail punishment.
>>2781783They greens are currently the 4th biggest party and they got a reasonable number of concessions from the SNP in 2021-26 despite fairly incompetent leadership.
They had Scottish election debates today. The only interesting moment was that Anas Sarwar attacked the Reform UK leader Malcom Offord for running a candidate who said Sarwar's kids should be deported, only for the Reform guy to go "you've called me racist three times in this campaign, well, that's not what were saying when you came up to me in Paisley and said we need to do a deal to stop the SNP" (to the visible delight of John Swinney)
You can tell from the level of damage control that Scottish Labour are doing (implying it's some moral failure of John Swinney to give the idea any credulity) that Offord was telling the truth. Well, that and - being Blairites who love briefing how clever they are - Scottish Labour told the press 2 weeks ago this was their plan.
>Start using Twitter
>Whenever make a post critical about Zionism get a bunch of @Reformparty, English flag, cross emoji bios going hard at me
>Bring up super niche topics that liteally only Jews and Israelis would care about
>They fall for it every fucking time.
>Call them out
>They block.
It's kind of fucking WILD how seemingly, most hard-right "BRITISH NATIONALIST" accounts on Twitter are just ouright Israelis posing as Brits.
>>2782242Its not a secret that this is the case with most clearnet websites like reddit or twitter. The UK does this with Starmer, hes the most hated PM of all time since polling began but every thread on reddit on /r/ukpol or /r/unitedkingdom is full of MI5 bots sucking him off and calling him the best thing ever.
The UK, the US, the IDF, they all have people whos full time job is literally just to post pro-establishment views online. A lot of these people have admin or mod accounts and ban any dissenting opinion. Its called narrative shaping.
>>2782255you also see it in the inverse like how you basically never see pro-palestine comments because they all get mass-removed, it creates the illusion of consensus in favor of the establishment to any rube unaware of this dynamic. Its the ideological state apparatus applied to the internet. This is how the upper class dominate the internet in the same way they dominated all other modes of communication.
The proletariat doesn’t exist
>>2782285The proletariat does exist and it's gangbanging your mother right now
>>2782286They’re cumming over an ash urn? Degenerates, kill them all
new false flag has dropped
>>2782255Good thing about twitter, doesn't ban anybody, bad thing about it, that fucking dogshit character limit.
Reddit is practically unusable these days, criticizing Zionism or Jewish biases is basically one way ticket to instantly banned by most mods, then Admin banned a week later. I agree as well, especially in regard to Reddit, clear as hell the mods on UK subs are absolutely paid off by or even are, Israeli.
>>2781742Another case of UK left just throwing retarded vibes based policies out there formulated by 15 year olds on Tiktok.
It's sad to see what could be such a good at least Social Democratic Party (Greens will never be Socialist really) not even bother with the most basics of decent of serious detailed Social Democratic policy.
Honestly the first thing the party should do is just go through what works better in Australia and copy that shit here. The fact the UK doesn't have weekend penalty rates, mandatory overtime rates, and industry based minimum wages like Australia is fucking wild shit. Government shopfronts is another and something that even the US has in some form, yet here in the UK interacting with councils or say the DVLA is a fucking nightmare.
Deranged hyper-zionist Sharon Osbourne (wife of Ozzy, TV judge, etc) has came out in support for Tommy Robinson on her social media.
Fwiw she's an immigrant to the US, her mother was an Irish immigrant to the UK, her father was a Jewish immigrant to the UK… Seemingly doesn't get the irony.
>>2782708> Botox-filled bourgeois cunt decides to support a coke-addicted manufactured working-class hero funded by the UK's elites to further divide the British prole via reactionary idpol, ensuring the lumpen remain lumpenColor me shocked, that was predictable af. But honestly, given that she is a yenta, you'd think that if she loved Israel so much that she would go live there as opposed to being a leeches in either the UK or the USA. I really wish Tommy 10 names would get arrested for CP, since that would at least give us enough laughs as his supporters would likely either defend CP or engage in dumb cospiratorialism, further discrediting their moralistic crusades against trans rights and brown men.
>>2782625Nah man, Twitter does ban people, it's just that its serf-and-lords system means that you need to pay more than 7 quids to avoid the ban hammer, and even then the MUSKrat will find various ways to screw you over if you're leftist and don't support goysrael like a good goy.
It's pathetic how Jack's Twitter was way better than Musk's, since the former censorship acted as quality control for content, while with Musk his outsourcing of moderation to Jannie-bots means that every ban and restriction is practically arbitrary and easily gamed if enough dedicated trolls put the effort to rig the system.
Musk-era X'itter is Twitter as its worst, both in terms of censorship and the amount of bot farms posting slop. Like, not even during the latest Belarusian color protests over supposed election fraud on Lukashenko's part did Twitter under Jack force-meme regime change by changing the emoji for Belarus' flag.
With that said, given how many times Musk has censored people over feels and how he easily cowered under strong state pressure into enforcing censorship, I don't think anything would change if Starmer banned X'itter. And honestly, given how Musk has done his darnest to throw Britain under civil war, Starmer would be justified in doing so.
>>2782256Damn right son. Chomsky may have been right about "manufactured consent", but he really didn't get close to the mark, since the real MO of the establishment is what precedes "manufactured consent", which is "manufactured consensus": Mockingbird media (both TV and social media) organises around with the explicit goal of either removing wholesale or ghettoising dissent to portray a false narrative of widespread consensus to an initially-sceptical public that soon turns into the actual consensus. Can't say if pre-internet era was worse or better than today where the goycattle is more easily bamboozled thanks to AI slop upping the ante on realism.
>>2782242Part of it is obvious shilling by bot farms a part of Israeli influence operations in the UK and Europe at large, part of it is that western rightoids in Europe are basically "aspirationally Jewish" goyim in that they adopt zionism solely out of spite for (their caricatured version of) the left and brown/black people which is just an externalisation of their class anxiety onto Middle Eastern conflicts where for them Israel = wypipo/elite/bourgeois and Arabs = browns/blacks/prole, so identification with Israel is basically a way for them to reassure themselves that somewhere elsewhere there's some "based white country" killing brown people, even tho many Arabs are white (as many dishonest hasbara trolls point out in their gotchas against leftists) and Israel is more Jewish supremacist than white supremacist considering how they'll let in million od Beta Israel (i.e., black) and Mizrahi (i.e., brown) Jews into the base whilst excluding millions of productive fake Russian (i.e., white) Jews.
I swear, if I had a penny for every time some British zio-chuddy goycattle told my alt how important it is to give phull sapport for Israel "cuz day fight terrorism n shieet" then I'd be richer than Elon. Because for them British lives stop mattering or are conveniently brushed aside when it doesn't fit the agenda sold to them by the international banker propaganda network like Ligatum's GBnews.
>>2782533What you on about
>>2782755See only started using Twitter recently as a last resort, because bannings from everywhere else trying to talk about how Zionism wields it's power (my theory is actually one of class/elite solidarity and that Jewish Zionists are basically a brahmin class within the elite, also that Jews, with a massive median wealth per person, means that upper classes/upper middle classes, if they are not Jewish themselves, tend to have kids marry into Jewish families, have their friendship circles be largely Jewish etc), so I had no idea what it was like before like 2 weeks ago, lol.
Also for all my antisemitism, I love when I go back and check my figures when people call me a "delusional antisemite"
I made mistakes before I now admit, I said that Jewish UK median wealth was 420,000, this is wrong, this dataset from the equalities commission was from 2010, when we take into inflation into account it's actually more accurately baseline around 650,000-700,000, and even then, most likely much higher, since asking chatgpt and deepseek, and ask it to take into account property price increases in say golders green or Stamford Hill, it could be around 800k-1.2 million.
I apologize for my antisemitism, Jews are far more wealthy than I actually initially claimed.
>>2782625Name 3 "retarded vibes based policies" in the Scottish Green manifesto.
>weekend penalty rates, mandatory overtime, and industry based minimum wagesAll of these things are reserved matters. The Scottish government is not allowed to legislate on employment law.
>>2783293
triggered that 4chan is broken again, you israel worshipping golem? not gotten any billionaires you can suck off this morning?
why don't you try going outside and not being full of seething hatred for the working classes for 5 minutes. it's a beautiful sunny day.
>>2783293
the only epsom of any importance is the epsom constituency in new zealand, and even then only because it has a weird fetish for a libertarian party, which is slightly interesting
nothing south of birmingham is of any importance until you hit ulaanbataar.
>>2783297
basically everyone here is working class. didn't ask to hear about your weird sex fantasies either mate.
British class discourse is so repulsively stupid that it almost makes one want to disavow even the marxist conception of class. Just drop the language entirely and return to talking in terms of human universals. (While obviously changing them from the current bourgeois set to a proletarian one. e.g. "everyone has the right not to have their labour exploited" rather than "the proletariat should throw off bourgeois oppression" or, christ no, "the working class should throw off upper-class oppression")
Working class landlords, middle class women feeling they've a right as a "sex class" to not see weirdos in public, Blairite student-union alumni who once made courting the middle classes their life's goal now decrying everyone who hasn't been down t'pit and come back up in blackface, make it all end.
>>2783297
Its funny how people like you moan about lefties importing immigrants when its the right wing parties that you probably voted for that did this. Funny self report on your fetishism too as well mate nice.
>>2783313there's something amusing about the sign saying "LGBTQIA+" instead of "LGBT" or "gays" or "queer people" in scare quotes or something snappier.
i think it's that bothering to include QIA+ is c. 5 years ago woke-coded. it's like a /pol/ user saying "despite making up x percent of the population,
people of color commit…", it's incongruent.
SNP manifesto's out
their most interesting policy is that they want to try to use public health powers to implement price caps on some essential foods at supermarkets.
(Holyrood isn't allowed to implement price caps in general, because that's a reserved economic matter, but the theory is that since they could set minimum prices for alcohol, why not maximum prices for food? It's creative, but it would be a miracle if it survived an encounter with the entirely illegitimate UK supreme court.)
>>2783337Bit worried about price caps, from how they work with energy it might just become the new rate of profit rather than the absolute max it can go. Like I can see every super market just maxing out every single price set at the price cap the nanosecond they come in then lobbying government every few years to increase it above inflation.
>>2783338i think in this case it's just that they'd have to sell one item at the capped price, but otherwise be free to do what they want.
e.g. if the price cap on bread is 70p, they have to sell at least one product line of loaves for 70p (probably the cheapest store-brand one), but the name-brand and premium store-branded products can be priced freely. so if it was implemented, the cap could be set at-cost.
>>2783313The left isn't going to get anywhere until we start battering auditors.
>>2783344That's what they want, though. for people to attack them so they can film it and cry and get rightoids riled up and get grift bucks.
>>2783344> calling for violence against people for noticing thingsLmao, I love how you people cry about "fascism" while calling for violence against and celebrating the murder of those you disagree with , you really are pathetic little ghouls
>>2783340It would need to be something substantial like applying it to all of these products at a below current market rate price for it to not just be a backhanded way of giving more bennies to the upper class.
I call for the dismantlement of #Violence, i call United Nations European Commission NATO to deliver #ExViolence into 3 independent concepts in #Eurozone
>>2783293I live how Euro-chuds will mock MeToo at every turn, only to engage in the same kind of histrionics because (much like radfems, surprise surprise) they built an entire ideology out of rape (specifically interracial stranger rape) being this spectacular event that even a single (interracial rape) warrants the entirety of society to be burnt in crisps so that everything can be handed over to the oligarchs that they simp so much for.
Ahh, radfems and the far-right, truly a match made in heaven. Perhaps not surprising as both are two sides of the radlib capitalist coin. After all, fascism is merely an extreme end of liberal idpol, so go figures that both radfems and Angloid chauvinists are both prone to histrionics and believing in mystical BS and “lived experience”-type crap. Because otherwise they’d have to admit they are saying much ado over a nothing burger.
In all seriousness though, the left’s failure to destroy the radfem “sex assault” dogma is why the alt-right got much traction in Europe. Had leftists produced more material than just “To Kill a Mockingbird”, we wouldn’t have to deal with Euro-reactionaries wanting to burn down the continent over the (relatively minor) cases of interracial raep or “child sexual abuse” as chuds call it (i.e., any icky interracial sex involving a white woman below the magic age line).
P.S.: By most verifiable data, there are at least 500,000 CSA cases reported last year in total, of which most were done by relatives and authority figures of said child. Even the Casey report braindead Anglo fascists love to spam on X’itter:
- Says there were 18,000 reported cases of so called “group-based sexual exploitation” (i.e., <5% of all CSA cases) (double quotes since it’s undefined and not a legal category yet)
- Said reports goes on to admit that most abuses on white minors are committed by white adults in family context.
IB4 “muh government lies, muh underreporting!”
I’m not going to get into this mindless conspiratorialism and frankly bizarre and selective radfem talking points chuds love to bring up here, but I really doubt that the HQ of feminism known as the UK would have an underreporting issue. Indeed, perhaps give how it’s encouraged to report abuses at all times, maybe we have an overreporting issue, uh? That would make for a more salient discussion than the shitshow TERF island is embroiled with.
The western left won’t get shit done unless it gets rid of its radlibs, especially concern-trolls whinging about the relatively minor cases of interracial BAME-on-white raep to derail discussions and further reinforce the notion that upper-to-middle class white female idpol is paramount to even class solidarity.
Goes to show how all it takes is a moral panic for both sides of the capitalist coin to throw away the right to a fair trial and the notion of innocent before being proven guilty. Truly worst than the Abrahamics in that regard, yikes.
https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Research:_Commercial_and_online_sexual_exploitationhttp://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=7FAE8BC08A1119D806B6D584BA24743B>>2783365
> “Look at muh interracial rape! How absolutely doodly dare you ignore muh lived experience REEEEEE!!!”
> Hopes the female relatives of your opponent get raped by non-whites
No matter how much they try to mask it, chuds always reveal themselves for the cruel, hypocritical and evil cretins that they are. Go back to mumsnet you fascist fuck
Is there anything inherently wrong with raping anglos?
>>2783307First it’s cooking up racial cuckoldry, now it’s hoping your female relatives get raped simply because you disagree with them.
Pasolini’s Salò was really prescient about fascists.
Also love how that chud is doing the meme
>>2783378Reminder that the Muslims you lefties deeply sexually autistically love from the bottom of your hearts all think you're stupid kuffar and will turn on you once they take over, keep bleating "fwee fwee Palestine" hahaha
>>2783380 Women have two X chromosomes, NEE NAW NEE NAW better report me to a Diversity Enforcement Officer for hate speech and send me to the gulag, isn't it time you dilated?
>30 posts on, and the brainrotten chud still can’t give a good reason why should society be burnt to the ashes over his and his equally-brainrotten peers’ fantasy-based sexual histrionics.
Like, the data is clear on this: What they are fixated upon is literally a nothingburger. Honestly, they would have more respect if they just admit that they don’t give a shit about children and women (white or not) and just hate interracial sex in general and wish for Britain to be turned into even more of an America-Jewish colony than it already is.
Truly, chuds are the most servile creatures in history. Imagine wanting to give up on sovereignty after being easily swayed by yellow journalism-type BS.
Also, I find it funny how Palestinian resistance has triggered these Euro-chuds into being compliant whores for Israel. Zionists practically owns the chud’s mind.
Yo jannies, are y’all going to do anything about the Anglo shabbos goyim derailing this thread with his sexual histrionics over nothingburgers?
>>2783392JIDF poster based in Isreal or useful idiot UC PIP full entitlement permo unemployed high school drop out gammon call it
>>2783393"Waaa the evil Natzee chud is making me cry, tell him off mommy!"
>>2783395Fat hairy unemployed commie LARPing as a woman and sucking Muslim dick describes 99% of this sad little echo chamber
>>2783399you only self report the fantasies you wank off too, are you lost or just waiting out the facebook ban
>>2783392Are you done sucking Muslim cock yet, they still think you're kuffar scum no matter how many times you say "free free Palestine"
>>2783389Hey, you’re the one who made this about your bizarre sexual anxiety, not us. You should go back to /pol/ if you’re going to post your cuck fantasies, because this place ain’t it. Moralising about le one hundred gorillion giga-chaldraeps ain’t gonna work on us materialists, you’re better off baiting for attention on X’itter, the number one place for RW cuck fantasies:
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bbcide-bbc-suicide-tweet-from-twitter-user-brettctheorist >>2783403I suggest you 41% yourself, you'll never be a woman
>>2783408
>globohomo AI slop art propaganda
You're all mentally ill , you will never be women, cry more
>>2783407And you’ll never be a chosenite, nor the elite. Cry more chud, the average trans person has more guts than you’ll ever have by virtue of being the most discriminated group in Britain and still kicking like the lionesses ;)
>>2783409Eh, Israel did a pretty shit job despite having unilateral financial and diplomatic support from both the USA and the EU than any country on Earth, performing even worse than Russia in the Ukraine. Hamas has gained more members than ever, and Hezbollah is still pawning goysrael in the north.
Also, another evidence further discrediting your sexual hysteria:
https://www.csacentre.org.uk/research-resources/key-messages/intra-familial-csa/ >>2783422The average trans freak lives in their mum's spare bedroom and thinks they're a "qt anime cat girl" with a 5 o'clock shadow and long greasy hair that's never been washed, they have no idea how repulsive normal people find them and cope by hiding away on their little internet echo chambers
>>2783429you can't seriously be this dumb
>>2783425that sounds pretty specific. are you ok guy
>>2783690They seem to have oddly detailed accounts of trans peoples lives, one can only assume that a muslim trans woman broke his heart.
why is this screetching butthurt chud not being banned?
>>2783382You outed yourself as a shabbos when you started bringing up palestine.
>>2783389You are stuck in the 2016 memeplex.
>>2783425"trans freak lives in their mum's spare bedroom" are shaping policies all around the developped world and causing culture warring not seen since 1965 despite being very few and even manage to do it in low-trust shitholes like pakistan/india. This is not the work of an irrelevant self-denied race you describe. They are a phallic people turned outward not whatever nerd side character from a genX cartoon you just described which is why chuds pay so much attention to them.
>>2783429That's before he was #touched on by his court eunuchs telling him he should rule not based on his morals or liberal telos but on wathever carefully selected polls tells him that month.
>>2783985they're the British ACP
>>2783293
>with your gay pink and yellow signs
Imagine getting so arsemad from a failing SWP front that you need to post on a malay spinning jenny forum.
>>2783985can't believe I voted for these clowns just cause they managed to win one (1) seat
>>2784042lol retard-comrade
>>2783985It seems conservative communism can only exist as social media snark accounts in 2026. From Caucescu to this. They dont even win local elections anymore, nada. Brvtvl.
>>2783389>>2783429Notice how reactionary politics always has a sexual complex to it.
Go back to your BBC gooning in private, son.
>>2783985at the risk of tautology: they are like this because they are like this.
politics is downstream of personality. their personalities are "like this", therefore their politics bends to match even if - to the outside viewer - it is to the detriment of their more appealing elements.
once you crack this, every oddity of every party makes sense.
(as for why,
at the root their personalities have developed this way, it is harder to say. personality isn't fixed or innate, although i suspect modern conservatism can largely be explained by being incapable of adapting to current liberal/left norms at sufficient pace - hence why they still bring up old news like "abolish the police" as though it were 2020. of course, that may be over-explaining a certain dispositional conservatism… "why can't things stay the same as during [fixed reference point], everything that's changed has changed for the worse or is unnecessary", etc.)
>>2784318taking this to further expand on the theory: the politics-as-personality theory should also be applied
within countries rather than in general. that is to say, the most open-minded and tolerant afghan may be predicted to lean the "left" of a moderate briton (relative to Afghan politics, too), even though the most open minded and tolerant afghan may be quite closed minded by British standards.
hence, even where AES countries were socially conservative by modern western standards, their leadership may still have been more "dispositionally progressive" than modern western conservative types. the question is not whether they were progressive in some absolute sense, but in normalized terms for time and place.
(this is why "we should be like [x] AES country and implement [y] reactionary policy" always falls flat.)
>>2784348>personality isn't fixed or innateI disagree; you can often see the type of adult a child will grow up to be.
>the question is not whether they were progressive in some absolute sense, but in normalized terms for time and place. "Progress" is an arbitrary yard stick; there is just status. Being "progressive" means being fashionable, conformist - that's it. Ted Kaczynski called leftists "oversocialised" for this reason, since we embed the codes of society into our manner, which is socially intelligent, while the reason you see degenerates on the right is because the "right" is nothing besides a group of low-status people (e.g. non-conformable). So, "personality" politics requires further elaboration, as class (meaning, Elon Musk is the world's richest man, but is he the world's classiest man? No - thus, the right complain of "the elite"; i.e. the left). We are natural aristocrats, in many ways, while the right are natural peasants, unable to disguise the stench.
>>2783985this reminds me of when haz said that communism was big muscled holy men with beards and hammers were going to break into every nerd's house and smash up their gamecube
>>2784363filthy revisionism. communists do not seek the destruction of gamecubes, the world-historic mission of the proletariat is to share the gamecubes and play smash bros together
>>2784371i mean all he is, is a pathetic little lebanese man who shouts about how strong and powerful he is
>>2784356a child exists in the environment that will shape their personality, so disentangling the two isn't easy.
anyway, i don't entirely disagree but i wouldn't say the right aren't conformist or conformable. look at some shithole like /v/ and it's very clear that they're contrarian and low-status but deeply conformist to their own set of norms.
i think you're on stronger grounds with social intelligence, although it throws up some interesting questions: plenty of autistic people (and not just trendy self-diagnosing ones either) are good left/liberal types despite having a medically significant deficit in it. meanwhile, plenty of rightists manage to miss things that even autists pick up on. (e.g. see how often rightists get caught up on demanding a rules-based answer to a "just use social intelligence" question. e.g. "am i a woman if i say i am right now?")
i think there's a good just-so story in the idea that left/liberals enjoy conformism to a changing set of rules (because being able to keep up with the rules and fashions shows you are, dispositionally, one of them) and the right are those who cannot keep up. (hence traditionalism, wanting a nice clear set of fixed rules and norms so they don't have to think.), but that would struggle to explain autistic people being at-worst evenly matched. perhaps it's because such tradionalism results in a higher number of rules and punishments for rule violations, which are taken as a given, while liberal/leftism will mostly ignore you or quietly accept you so long as you don't break any of the rules against bigotry etc.
as un-leftist as it is, the aristocrat/peasant analogy is fun: peasants are of course, by nature, quite conservative. trying to come up with an innovative new farming technique as a peasant really is an excellent way to starve to death. aristocrats, by contrast, loved their novelties and their contrived fashion games.
(but isn't it a mark of human progress that we've moved from building mazes and juggling forks to raise your status, to taking public stances against prejudice and bigotry to raise your status? isn't it good that low status increasingly comes from being an argumentative dickhead with reams of prejudices rather than from breeding or wealth?)
britain is a strange little country since the ruling class have picked up all sorts of low status ideas while remaining comfortable in their status here, with the net result that the social status of britain as a whole is in freefall… which drives more low status yank aping behavior from our ruling class. 20 years ago americans were peasants and we were aristocrats, now the position is reversed. >>2784379
no link, no right to speak.
>>2784381you really do have a knack for timing showing up just as we were talking about low social intelligence.
anyway, there's a party for conservatives like you: the labour party.
>>2784384Nobody said the current government policy is good retard. Pretty sure we aren't getting 5 million migrants a year either lol.
>>2784384those are legitimate concerns but the self-id point is comical. there's no evidence for men just flippantly identifying as women to avoid prosecution and getting away with it
>>2784381Can you actually show the document instead of some guy's interpretation of it?
>>2784387That original tweet is kind of pathetic yes, but the way WPGB responded is just deranged. There's so many better things they should tweet about instead of shitting on childless couples.
>>2784387how about you stop being a little bitch who whines when he gets criticized for his shitty opinions?
>>2784381post the source you cunt
>>2784388The full document hasn't been released, screenshots are from the document through. I DM'ed the dickhead to release the full document though, if he does I'll post it here. It seems to be an internal review of policy.
>>2784386Really? You commit fraud, you can face 5 years in prison, or just claim then and there that you are a woman and instantly escape jail time and do community service? You think nobody is going to be doing that?
Why in actual living fuck should women not be sent to prison for crimes? Much of the elite literally engage in white collar and "non-violent" crime as well, so a policy like this basically is open season for the rich to do crime and get away with it.
>>2784390It was just a joke, but it's also real you will understand when you get older, I loved video games in my 20s, but now I look back at near every moment I spent gaming that wasn't at a LAN as wasting my fucking life.
>>2784048My boyfriend made me do it okay. And he's gay (I love him anyways), so I figured if he's okay with me voting for an Islamist party I can stomach it
>>2784376>conformityIt is conformist to be rebellious; this is the ethos of the Left - or as I once heard it said: "The French Revolution began in the mind of the king". Laws are made to be broken; that is what much of the right misunderstand when they are flabbergasted by public vice (Žizek also calls this rite of initiation "superego", like how a father gives his son a drink; here, transgression is a shared enjoyment in the figure of authority, which is theoretically relevant, since it means that one cannot rebel by mediated transgression; indeed, it is the right who are most "conservative" in this enjoyment; e.g. paedophilia, nazism and all other anti-social tendencies. This is also what relates anarchism to fascism; inhabiting our enjoyment from authority - this is exemplified by Marquis De Sade, who Pasolini rightly saw as a proto-fascist figure of the Enlightenment).
>autistic people Autistic people are often oversocialised.
>am i a woman if i say i am right now?As I have previously discussed, semantically, much of the right is *denotative* while the left is *connotative*, and so the right lack nuance, detail and secondary meaning in language, which is again a lack of social intelligence, because it denies what is implicit.
>hence traditionalism, wanting a nice clear set of fixed rules and norms so they don't have to thinkI think this is too simple; its the left which has implicit rules and customs, just hence why it is censorious, while the right is lawless, and so is generally ineffective and unproductive. Studies also show that the right is more open-minded than the left, which is a euphemism for schizophrenia.
>liberal/leftism will mostly ignore you or quietly accept you so long as you don't break any of the rules against bigotry etc.Not at all; if you say one word out of place you are always suspect. The left is not forgiving, which is a terrible trait in these spaces.
>peasants are of course, by nature, quite conservative.But what is "conservative"? Its not suit and ties, its the permission to enjoy without limits; the primal father of the tribe. Cruelty. We see it in the US now; we saw it in Nazi Germany - hypocrisy to justify evil.
>human progress As I say there is no such thing; we have nuclear bombs today when we didn't in the past; is this "progress"? It is a horror show.
>taking public stances against prejudice and bigotry to raise your statusBut this is just the way its always been; "bigotry" means blasphemy. We are the brahmin priestcraft. Virtue signalling existed milennia ago, even as Jesus tells us [matt 6:1-7]:
<Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.So, the more things change, the more they stay the same. The only thing which concerns us thus is whether we be hypocrites or not.
>>2784394Without the original source it's a complete nothingburger. For all we know it might not even be real and even if it is, it could just be a democratic discussion of proposals submitted by like one person, not what is actually decided on. The fact it's called a 'review' seems to support that.
As for the tweet, I dunno man, it didn't really seem like a joke to me, or at least one with serious feelings behind it. Even if they want to say it's a joke, political parties shouldn't be shitposting. Look if you don't find videogames enjoyable anymore that's fine but it's crazy to go out frothing at the mouth about them being 'degenerate'. It makes you look mental to 90% of the left. If WPGB wants to try doing social conservative socialism, then okay, I don't think it will work but they're welcome to give it a go, as I said I even voted for them, but they can't just go out and act like fucking Haz, nobody likes that, not even conservatives.
Also again, the reason I'm so critical of the Tiktoks Greens (i'll vote for the tiktok party, I'm far more driven by anti-Blairite spite with my vote and I literally had some Labour dipshit knock my door and tell me that the local Green candidate was an antisemite lmao), is they are everything wrong with the left, policies are based entirely on vibes of "DECENT FUCKING PERSON" and this leads to a raft of shit that just makes zero fucking workable sense.
I'm here talking about the competency crisis on the left, there are so many good policies that the Greens could take charge with, and some of these they even have in their repitor like abolishing the house of lords, or mandatory overtime rates, yet they push shit like 10:1 or no women in prisons, or open borders, or banning dog training while hell hounds maul a new kid or woman every other day.
I'm hoping this internal document is actually taken seriously and the Green Party actually reworks all these terrible incoherent policies, it was apparently leaked by a senior Green who said that the Green party policies largely in the end benefit Corpos.
Remember as I've said before, I'm an ex Green party staffer so I don't have an intrinsic hate of the party in concept, just how this stupid fucking shit from idiots always wins out because Leftists engage in politics through ingroup "empathy" signalling rather than.. you know, workable goals.
>>2784384there are 217 flats in trellick tower
5 million / 217 = 23041
build 20,000 trellick towers a year and you'd have a substantial surplus of permitted housebuilding.
now because you are stupid i will explain: this does not literally mean building 20,000 trellick towers, cool as that would be. obviously, one would build - say - 100,000 more reasonably sized blocks of flats and 40,000 regular homes. one could also always cheat a little: build 9000 alexandra road estates and insist that the complex is all one big building. really, as a stimulus to actually doing things, it's a wonderful policy. (all the flats will, of course, be well insulated and have solar panels on the roof and a little windmill just to piss you off.)
but go ahead and explain why you don't want good working class construction jobs and infrastructure investment.
>>2784387the point of production is consumption :)
>>2784394link the dickhead then.
(speculation: you won't because it's a source so right wing as to be socially embarrassing and even you're not that dumb.)
sending people to prison for non violent crime is stupid. even rich people with the narrow exception of those famous enough that it's funny.
>>2784401it's a nothingburger. even if, at face value, they are the voted-through policies of the party, do you really imagine a green government is going to vote to legislate for half of those policies? even if there are policies out there which are actually mind-bogglingly insane (and none of the ones listed are!) the civil service exist precisely to go "minister, you realize this is completely unimplementable don't you?"
>>2784403see i actually agree with most of the words you're saying in your later paragraphs, but you lack the social intelligence to understand how you finesse these things.
the greens are the anti-example of the competency crisis on the left! a handful of odd policies that won't actually be legislated, which open up attacks that won't drive off anyone who matters - that's fine! organizational competency is a much more fundamental problem: look at your party, which couldn't even register candidates in time. look at the communists, who can't get any membership traction or public attention whatsoever. that's incompetence! "if you read this policy a certain way, it wouldn't let you train dogs" - nobody gives a fuck! if keir starmer trotted out that attack line nobody would believe it even if it was true!
the pitch of every other party leader is "i am evil incarnate", it is actually a very good idea to run on "i am a DECENT FUCKING PERSON"
>>2784356Well said and TRUE but too deterministic. I doubt Lenin was always perceived as the tasteful aristocrat compared to Nikolas II or whoever were the leaders of the white army. Same with Mao VS Chiang etc.
one should understand marketing politics as being like marketing any other product.
imagine coca-cola was a political party. 69.3% of soft drink sales by value in the UK are coke - it's more popular than keir starmer is unpopular! but unless you're the LDP in Japan (and even then) you can't be coke in politics. coke is an undifferentiated product, which is a marketing way of saying "we've narrowed our target demographic down to: everyone"
and it works! you cannot really narrow coke drinkers down by personality type. they're everyone, everyone drinks coke. even diabetics.
Now Dr. pepper, they're different. "try more weird". their target demographics are basically the same as the Green party: 18-34, a little individualistic or quirky. maybe even (gasp) a touch irresponsible, not drinking reliable old coke. in 2024 dr. pepper's sales-by-value went up 12%. they're also, incidentally, the most loyal consumers of any brand UK-wide. but unlike coke, they're not undifferentiated. you can, in fact, narrow down who drinks Dr. Pepper.
just for fun: the SNP are Irn Bru to an uncanny degree. In Scotland it is coke. you cannot really narrow down Scottish Irn Bru drinkers by demographic. (and if you dig into the minutiae, you even find some parallels: used to be more popular with men, now skews gender neutral…) the drink's unique taste is good, but it differentiates itself from other soft-drinks using inoffensive nationalism. its slogan: "made in scotland from girders", really goes for the kind of industrial social-democratic nostalgia that the SNP took up when Labour blundered it away.
In the UK as a whole, it's popularity skews younger, more overlap with the Dr. Pepper demographic… which is also true of the SNP. (remember 2015's gimmick of english people googling if they could vote for Nicola Sturgeon?)
and just to push a metaphor to breaking point: a lot of pre-2015 supporters have become upset with changes to the recipe post-2018…
so, what's my point? well: for dr. pepper to try to pivot to being coke would be a terrible mistake - you'd throw away this unique, differentiated position without any real hope of taking over coke as the default option. also, more importantly, politics is all about differentiation. why did your party flop so hard? because Zak Polanski was selling Dr. Pepper and Your Party were offering mystery bottles which had an 85% chance of containing something 1% nicer than Dr. Pepper, but a 15% chance of being filled with dark black human piss… and they ran out of bottles on day 1. keir starmer's flopped because his dithering destroyed their soft-left differentiation from the tories and reform in a way that not even blair could achieve. the SNP have no serious plan to force an independence referendum (and haven't even really been planning to win one in the background), but they keep the demand around because it's essential to differentiate them from other parties.
so, in conclusion my advice to the left is: try more weird.
(and drink dr. pepper)
I'm taking candidates for what beverage Reform UK is. best i've got so far is an old man with an energy drink, but the numbers don't back me up enough: energy drink consumption skews male and C2, which is apt, but also young, which breaks things.
>>2784436Reform is obviously Fanta.
>>2784404
I mean I don't know, why shouldn't I be offended? I'm also in a childless couple, I don't appreciate being called a degenerate. It's not like I'm crying my eyes out over it but it certainly makes me less likely to vote for them.
>>2784455dont worry about tommy sheridan ITT - hes just mad no one gives a shit about boomer reactionary socialism in the UK anymore after they kept raping women.
>>2784436Perhaps it's people who are united in their hate for Dr Pepper, which includes a range of people from geriatrics to 4chud chinlets
>>2784453What party or candidate Irn-Bru would be
It's funny that we have literal Labour shill on leftypol. I know from personnal sources that LFI and Linke cadres consult the site but normalfag labourites doing so is more funny.
>>2784386I think there's the case of One (1) neo-nazi german terrorist who did it recently. Though he didnt get away with it but that was a bit funny.
>>2784403Banning dog training is a PC way to ban dog in most places down the line as well as certain breeds but they cant do it outright because theyll be designated as Islamists or wathever and normies really luh doggos.
>>2784466They don't even have the courage to rape women much these days…
the idea the greens want to ban dog training is the stupidest of all the stupid claims. you would have to have C compiler tier autism to think "manipulating" in the context of "wholesale breeding, manipulation and destruction" means "training a dog to sit, petting a cat, or handling an animal as a vet"
a motion passed at green party conference wasn't drafted to the exacting standards of actual legislation? hold the fucking phones! (or don't: why stop at "manipulation" not being defined. since we're throwing common sense out the window: did the motion contain a definition of "animal"? no? it must refer to everything on the planet then - the greens think phones are animals!!)
>>2784474when you have a big tent you'll have clowns!
Phils Greaves tried to rob me for looking like a "social fascist" while at Greggs.
>>2784494All that's missing is a laugh track
>>2784381>Green party policy is to limit home building to 140,000 a year for Environmental reasons.The contradictory chain these idiots are caught behind: they cannot nominate an external source for economic growth except through their exclusion of the issue of profit from their total outlook, such that their mutual fantasies disguise all serious discussion of change behind their bourgeois ethos.
The entirety of the British left are descending into a Weimaresque charade. That animal bit is peak as it just highlights how their positions are nominative criteria according to which they match their lifestyles with no serious commitment for an alternative, as they lack all imagination to do so.
>>2784572>>2784381That they've managed to sketch out a policy review is significant insofar as it may be the result of internal disputes between its more extreme membership and others who simply wish to vie for a workable electoral campaign for their local constituencies.
The idea of a complete ban on putting down animals from a major party is out of this world, let alone a universal income of 25 grand for carte blanche asylum approvals.
>>2784403>I'm an ex Green party staffer What are they actually like
The actual text of AR419 says nothing about banning euthanasia. You can only read it that way if you're incapable of understanding what a full stop means. The greens can be argued to oppose euthanasia in the abstract (don't we all? in the abstract, isn't it nicer for animals to live?) but they say nothing policy wise.
>AR419 The Green Party is opposed to the wholesale breeding, manipulation and destruction of those animals who are chosen as companions to the human race.
Full stop. Additional point: wholesale here surely refers only to breeders.
>We will introduce measures to regulate the care and conditions for such animals including a two-tier system of dog-licensing [breeding and non-breeding], licensing of all animal breeders and dog owners, subsidised spaying and neutering, the implementation of good animal warden schemes and a prohibition on the import of exotic animals for the pet trade.
Indeed wholesale opposition to manipulation CANNOT refer to a ban on petting dogs if you read this! Spaying and neutering is certainly manipulation!
Whoever drew up these complaints is retarded
>>2784599None of this is enforceable and would push the market for animal breeding into the black
>>2784613The greens will ban moving the goalposts
>>2784599>petting dogs>pettingYanks out.
>>2784488Tbh, I do think the breeding of pugs, pekingese, frenchies, pitbull-type dogs and such breeds on British soil should be banned given the adverse health effects done by breeding as well as some of these breeds being dangerous and too unpredictable to humans to be used as proper livestock guardians or guard dogs.
>>2784645you pet a dog and stroke a cat. pat? Maybe if you've got a comedy regional accent.
Why even care? The greens will never be in government and Zack Poland will never be PM, all leftoid wishcasting, Reform will rule until the sun swallows the earth or the ocean swallows Britain, whichever comes first
The Greens seems to be in a policy crisis. While I don’t suggest them to outdo reactionaries in reactionarism as Starmer did in a futile quest to keep Labour afloat by following the lede of that liberal fascist of Denmark’s PM (who was saved from her potential fall by Trump’s declaration to take over Greenland), I do think the Greens should actually try to see what makes potential and current voters stick to them and then use that as the basis for their party program. Calling on complete BDS Israel and undoing Starmer’s censorship regime (e.g., scrapping the policing bill of 2023, giving amnesty to Free Palestine protesters that have been kept prisoners) would be huge steps.
As for immigration, I don’t think the Greens should make it front and centre. But if they do, they should implement a no-exception immigration moratorium as proposed by
>>2777679The environmentalist policies should be focused towards speedrunning the shift to green energy by framing it in terms of energy sovereignty as well as ban animal testing. The former would gain traction considering the decreasing yield of the North Sea, while the latter would appeal to Animal Rights group without it turning into a culture war issue.
I could jot down more suggestions like getting out of NATO and lift sanctions on both Russia and Iran, but you get the point: My suggestions would likely be better than anything the leaks show.
Would be good to infiltrate the decision-making team of the Greens to steer it towards a more effective direction. Because if nothing is done, then we’ll have to deal with a totalitarian fascist regime that will sell every British asset from the NHS to entire lands to the rootless capitalist overlords like Elon, all the while using the censorship tools laid down by Starmer to suppress dissent. It’ll be worst than anything from “V for Vendetta”
>>2784733True, especially as the population gets older and older. And we all know that, as far as polls are concerned, most gen X’ers and boomers are into Reform UK and other reactionary parties.
>>2784742This post made me think of a G move the greens could pull, offer a scrubbing of all criminal convictions related to communications offenses and rioting that happened during the asylum progroms from the last few years.
It would make them pardoning the palestine protestors as well seem more palatable and also do a lot in a way of getting the reactionary underclass and proles on board without giving too much away.
Its fair to see that shit as the fault of labor being boot stamping freaks.
>>2784742>i think the greens should be more right wingwhy are you even here?
so called true communists turn into blairites as soon as it's the Green party membership passing motions.
(But remember, they wouldn't set an illegal council budget to LARP a failed labour left strategy from 40 years ago, so they're also right wing!!)
Disagreeing with one another online is classified as a minor breach of Your Party rules
And remember: Sultana lost. This is the Corbyn/LOTO faction's idea!
>>2784784Which part of what I said was Right wing? Can you give me specific examples?
>>2784790What has any Brit ever done to deserve communism
>>2784742>in a futile quest to keep Labour afloat by following the lede of that liberal fascist of Denmark’s PMUnfair comparison to the aforementioned Danish PM. Starmer went way beyond that, making Labour and the UK NGO goblins do everything they can to create jim crow laws directed at transsexuals at the demand of the most NAMBLA gen-X gay guys and radfems, to the point where even Nigel stepped in and became a sensible center-left voice on the matter. Despicable.
Meanwhile that danish PM was just anti newly arrived immigrant and a critic of islam, which Starmer isnt even really he just signal to it for his norf electorate and do nothing in practice.
>>2784862how about zero immigration, free gimmies for fascist rioters, get rid of any actual commitment to animal rights
The greens just know that since government policy on immigration is always counterproductive, you can only cut immigration by trying to increase it.
Of course, we should have open borders, so this is a bad thing.
you want the railways renationalized, huh? where are you going to get the billions of pounds to buy out the contracts, huh? huh? if i take the worst possible interpretation of conference's vaguely stated will, it looks pretty bad doesn't it, huh? ( this happened btw:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/sep/28/labourconference.labour1 )
translators note: the railways were subsequently renationalized at no cost by a labour government.)
>>2784933Interesting. Can you elaborate on it further as to how an open borders system would benefit the British proletariat?
Also, what do you think of pre-2019 liberals’ idea to use national ID system to curb on illegal immigration? The logic goes that a national digital ID system would have every citizen registered in it which would allow them to work and access healthcare and other benefits. This would ensure that the government keeps track of citizens, both employed and unemployed, and consequently bar illegal immigrants and others that are unregistered from employment, healthcare, education, etc…
This would effectively disincentivise illegal immigration and discourage exploitative businesses from hiring illegal immigrants as workers. Or so liberals argued. Btw, this idea became less popular during the lockdowns and thereafter. Thought it was worth mentioning here.
>>2784742>like getting out of NATO and lift sanctions on both Russia and IranThis is literally a pipe dream
>get tired of the left, its cliches and its go-nowhere tendencies
>start drifting more liberal as second-best
>realize the UK has almost no actual liberals*, no liberal parties worthy of the name, no prospect whatsoever of moving in that direction, the situation is somehow even bleaker than that of the left and my worldview is uncool globally
haha
Mae croeso i pawb ac eithrio frenhiniaeth yn Nghymru.
free kernow
>>2785066what does actual liberal even mean to you lol
>>2785066>realize YANKEE GO HOME
>>2785236somewhere between "classical liberal" and libertarian but actually believing in all of it instead of just having a the tax cut obsession and general rightoid tendencies.
but even the parties that LARP in this direction are tax cut obsessed freaks who love the state meddling in private affairs. reform would keep a massive, interventionist state that thinks "who can use the loo in spoons?" is their decision, not tim martin's, the Tories already did this, the lib dems believe in nothing good, Labour are evil, and the greens mean well but still imagine the state is their friend.
a good litmus test of a real liberal is whether they like thatcher. if they do they're just a tax cut wanker. they couldn't give a fuck about actually stopping the state meddling in your life where it has no business to (a bone for leftists: banning swathes of union activity - illegitimate!), and they're dumb enough to salivate like dogs at "privatisations" into state regulated, state controlled markets usually initially under the control of (ex) senior civil servants. wow, so dynamism, much market!
>>2785423Thatcher actually caused more state centralisation by alienating local powers (such as in the police, unions and clubs), and also by necessitating inter-generational doling via unemployment.
>>2785448also:
>banned access to porn>limited social media for young people>stopped arrests for tweets>regulating vapesesoteric starmerism
>>2785448>>2785459Ain't it funny how whenever he faces a crisis shit like this gets posted everywhere?
Go to any british subreddit and there's accounts that are 2 weeks old with their profiles private posting this shit for thousands of updoots
>>2785471im not a redditor so i wouldnt know
>>2785471I saw it on reddit and thought it would be funny to post it here so yeah
Ok Greens-stans and Greens-haters. Considering how the UK is staring down another Great Depression, do you have an actual strategy or plan of action against the rising tide of fascism and the UK turning into even more of an American colony under the Starmerite regime that is more bothered by Russian and Palestinian “anti-septic” spooks over actual Israeli and American interference? The coming summer of hate will be a test case for the British left’s resilience. If they can’t stop Israeli foreign agent Tommy 10 names’ march through London, then I’d say that it won’t be long before the left loses the second battle of Cable Street.
Because like it or not, you Brits are staring into the abyss of a fascist Britain that will resemble francoist Spain sans the Catholicism. So you either try your best to have a class war before a race war, or you’re going to have to flee elsewhere as republicans did after losing the Spanish civil war.
So love today, seize all tomorrows, and make the best of what you have, for the vestiges of freedom you currently have won’t last long for as long as the capitalist zio-fascist regime in the UK lasts.
>>2785493“Economic zones”? You mean like these ones?:
https://europeanpowell.substack.com/p/second-empire-building-free-zonesEuropean Powell has done a great job at documenting this sinister agenda.
>>2785493now that you said it, i do not believe it.
>>2785496‘Not believe’ in what? Why not?
>>2785493>le fascismYou are exaggerating the threat
Farage and Lowe are just spicy tories
>>2785498that these scary right wing populists are gonna be franco 2 or whatever nonsense
>>2785506>>2785511Well, they are certainly normalising racism whilst getting paid handsomely by Musk and other plutocrats, so downplaying their threats isn’t wise, especially as they’ve got an army of football hooligans and other gutter elements of British society as their foot soldiers.
With that said, last night I was listening to a conversation between Edward Dutton and The_Academic_Agent regarding the latest asylum pogroms. Surprisingly enough, despite Dutton agreeing with every pedestrian right wing take, both he and Agent were sceptical of the prospect of a civil war happening in the UK within their lifetime, despite suspecting that both British and American intelligence, private interests groups, and possibly Russia are intent on causing one.
And I don’t think they should completely discard the possibility. For once, the average white Briton has been going apeshit over the (frankly overblown) “gruming gangz” crap and the sensationalised interracial murder cases astroturfed in Musk’s Twitter (courtesy of the MUSKrat tweaking the algorithm to spam RW slop on any British user) and other American social media platforms. Doesn’t matter that you show ‘em proof that intraracial crime is more common than interracial crime, the average lumpenised Anglo is too trigger-happy towards violence.
And while anecdotes and lived experience may differ (after all, with all the echo chambers and bots, it’s hard to gauge public opinion from social media alone), I’ll present a short historical overview.
While Britain never faced an actual civil war since the Glorious Revolution, there are times where the lede could have blown off. The latest would be the Easter Rising in the island of Ireland, where the UK was on the verge of civil war and would have likely ended in that had WW1 not started. And can’t forget the troubles, as that was the closest thing northwest Europe had to a low-level sectarian conflict. So while all may seem calm, the possibility of a civil war and civil unrest in one of the most stable political systems in history shouldn’t be discounted given the turbulence of modern Britain.
I’ll say this though: Revolutionaries and reactionaries make their biggest gains during times of crisis. So keep that in mind.
>>2785506This is true, but when they govern as such and get the same results, what do you think will happen? Labour get back in?
>>2785196>thoughts?i prefer Éire Óg.
>>2785551In all honesty, Farage is MUCH more sensible than his supporters; I dont fear that he will.destroy liberalism in this country.
>>2785551it's not gonna lead to a right wing ascendancy, it's just gonna lead to a general return to standard liberalism
>>2785576not even restore britain of all parties would, because destroying liberalism isn't really the goal of the far right, if you are to call it fascist, then it is democratic fascist
>>2785592fascism is far too theoretical; hitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW had ideas
the (anti-)politics of the far right is just racism
its literally "me no like paki" 😡🏴
nothing else; nothing more complicated than that
>>2785615exactly, that's why i disagreed with calling it fascist or anything besides lumpen populism, it's nothing but the lowest, foulest elements of a society rebelling against commonly held values and lynching anyone who they think represents that
>>2785637Maybe the supporters are like that but Farage et al are pretty much completely cynical I feel, they just want the proles to rip each other apart while they rob the entire state apparatus. Which is what Labour and Tories were doing but I don't doubt that Reform will be even more obnoxious about it and privatise even more state assets, and the conditions of the average person will get even worse. But not that much different from the governments that have come before no. I doubt there's going to be death camps or whatever.
>>2785423I hate to break this to you but I don't think there was ever actually a 'classical liberalism' that worked as you describe it. Every liberal state has been not liberal at all in many areas as well as just generally corrupt and a way for the rich to extract wealth from the poor.
>>2785423Oops didn't mean to hit post yet. Liberalism is basically just a fancy garb worn around naked capitalist exploitation. There's no such thing as an actual free market. I mean you criticise the deranged nature of privatisation in this country which is fair enough but how could say 'true' free market railways for example work? Whoever owns the railway and the stations has absolute authority over pricing, there can't be any actual market competition unless you're proposing there should be 10 different railway stations/railway lines in each city, and how would that possibly work? The government needs to be involved as the arbiter in some way, either over an actual state system or a fake psuedo privatised one like we have today.
>>2785667i mean whatever they think is really irrelevant, they are opportunists and certainly like the govts that came before them but ultimately they will believe whatever it is their lumpen base believes in
>>2785712>ultimately they will believe whatever it is their lumpen base believes inuh no. They might say they do but that's not the same thing. Politicians tell the proles what to think not the other way round.
>>2785714if you want to stay constantly appealing to them, then you will have to become them in some way, they're not hyper-intelligent prolewranglers, they're middle aged men (mostly) who benefit from deception and co-opting from people like tommy robinson and the other lumpens
>>2785720I'm sure the people involved in Reform are sincerely right wing but that doesn't at all mean they believe the simple, borderline retarded 'ate pakis' shit that their voters do. Maybe some of their MPs/staff etc do but by and large? Absolutely not. Politics are shaped by class interests, Farage does not at all have the same material interests as the average Reform voter.
>>2785680True free market railways would be Japan (where, a private consortium could build and operate new line on their own initiative if they could raise the capital, but the main intercity lines are owned by the former state railway, though this would also need planning reform) in an optimistic situation, but in a more realistic one: you'd have a single monopoly British Railways Plc, maybe separating track and trains as in continental Europe (giving you stuff like Lumo, minus the asinine requirement for Lump to pay LNER for "stealing" their passengers) and mostly have the railway monopoly compete with airlines, bus services, etc.
An in-between option for BR privatisation would be selling Intercity, ScotRail, Network SouthEast, and freight while keeping Regional Railways public.
A lot of market solutions are imperfect but better than badly planned state-controlled ones. Even where it outright fails: NZ had a failed "real" privatisation with some subsidies - but that meant renationalisation happened faster!
its the damn transhumanists
>>2785675This is true.
Lberalism is a virtuous ideal but it has never been practiced.
>>2785869how exactly does the anti-trans issue reproduce itself in britain? its been what 9 years at this point
>>2785680Free markets in the late 18th century generally referred to international free trade (e.g. abolishing tariffs). The abolition of Corn Laws (1815-46) are a major example of liberal politics pushing against protectionism. Developing nations employed protectionism as a way to build industry, while free trade sought to dominate foreign markets. So, free trade is a type of imperial strategy (under the auspices of lowering prices), the same way China currently conserve its manufacturing, creating international dependence. Liberals like Smith (1776) and Ricardo (1817) anticipated trade imbalances, which is why they wrote that one ought to engage in "comparative advantage" where fixed capital is evenly managed. So then, the idea that free trade, leading to exported industry is beneficial to the exporters, is a total reversal of the logic of trade. Marx also writes about this concerning Ireland; that as soon as they joined the Union, they were de-industrialised, concentrating power in England.
>>2784381I found your source, no thanks to you. Prick.
https://xcancel.com/maxtempers/status/2044741797654438315No wonder you wanted to cover it up.
>“Max Tempers is the real PM,” tweeted James Heale, deputy political editor of The Spectator, this summer. Tory leader Kemi Badenoch had just made a speech about the welfare state being so bloated that “we’re stuck with people getting taxpayer-funded cars for having constipation”. One very plausible reason she said that could be because Tempers, one of the most prominent right-wing X accounts, had been tweeting incessantly about Motability, an – in the right’s view – over-generous government scheme that provides disabled people with new cars. Tempers was also the one who last year brought the grimmer details of Britain’s grooming gang scandal to the attention of Elon Musk, and thus the world.>The man behind Max Tempers is in his 20s, and commutes into London for a job in finance. Though he stresses the anons are disparate and disorganised, they tend to be youngish, university-educated corporate types, who “have got tired of the absurdities they face in ordinary British life.” Their turn away from the mainstream (Tempers says he voted Remain in the EU referendum) isn’t surprising, given they shoulder relatively high tax burdens despite being crammed into outer-zone London house shares.Yet the stupid fucker and his dickhead source couldn't even read AR419 properly.
>>2784599 >>2785894Incidentally apparently one of this guy's gimmicks is whining that people on the dole get cheaper entry to various attractions because it distorts market prices, but that's exactly what a rational firm would do if it had excess capacity! Ideally, you would charge every consumer exactly what they'd pay: that's the whole idea behind all sorts of pricing decisions - it's why plane tickets cost more on the day of travel (if you're booking at short notice you're probably desperate and will pay more, if you're booking months out you can shop around)
There's an argument it fucks up the cost/benefit ratio of getting off benefits, but you shouldn't make private firms surrender their ability to set prices in a profit maximising way just to get the DWP off the hook for not knowing how to set a taper rate.
>>2785894People with finance jobs in The City, truly the most oppressed minority in the UK.
The British tax system is problematic, but moreso because it’s set up in such a way that it financially harms the proletariat more than the rentier class that holds its assets in tax havens like Dubai and Singapore, as opposed to “muh overtaxing hurts le sweet summer finance childbros” as the average radlib Angloid screeches.
>>2785894>>2785944What is Max Tempers’ lore, aside from being part of Musk’s mockingbird influencer network on X’itter?
>>2785973What more do you need than that? These kind of shits are a dime a dozen
>>2785973He made an app that would detect if a car was likely to be bought on motability, which is probably his main claim to fame.
Seems like a good test case for politics as personality test. One or two interesting points ("wage stagnation + minimum wage increases = Tories actually made Britain more equal" is at least an interesting and novel argument) in a sea of dogshit resentment and generally being a cunt.
>>2786008Probably the Trump administration and Big tech working overtime to push for color revolutions and regime changes in America’s client states to install their puppets there, facilitating the looting of said client states’.
American Tik Tok removes videos critical of Israel, Trump and ICE.
Try to remember every argument made on how Biden and the Dems pushed censorship via social media giants’ collaborations, but replace Biden with Trump, Dems with GOP, and woke with anti-woke, and you get the idea.
>>2786011
>>/pol/
Seriously the right are really fucking annoying if you humour liberalism.
Okay, right: Britain is fucking up the market mechanism because there are a million statutory duties to make sure you don't disadvantage disabled bike riders by opening a tramway thanks to an ill considered members bill from 2003. Great: so why don't we scrap all those and offset the negative side effects by giving them money, paid for by the massive efficiency increases of reducing administrative complexity?
Oh, right, because as a rightist you're half here for a tax cut and half here because you get some kind of weird psychosexual thrill out of hurting people weaker than you. You couldn't give a fuck about using the market to make this a better country if it means more (but more efficient!) benefits and no tax cuts.
>>2786076demographic replacement by the irish
>>2786077We do, but the problem is we use real sugar rather than corn syrup
>>2785874Don't understimate the grip second-wave hags have on that country and it's institutions, especially liberal and left-wing ones, even the journos. This is why Farage is less anti-trans than Starmer and other British leftoid NGO blobs. Greens arent transphobic because their leadership and bureaucrats are too young to have been associated with radfem bullshit, they are also too intelligent to get subverted then destroyed by them like the SNP and now Labour did.
As long as these people arent purged from their positions or die from old age the trans culture war will continue in the UK. It will far outlive the trans culture war of the US btw.
And despite being their patron saint Jk Rowling has actually very little to do with all this, it's pretty organic and grassroot, not some astroturfed thing payed by shady billionaires.
>>2786010Silver lining here is how little DNC censorship and narrative building ended up mattering anyway, sometimes it was outright counterproductive. It wont be much different for the GOP led SV censorship, we are seeing it backfire already. I doubt astroturfing ideas have any potent effects in an age where so much of politics is determinated by personality type first, by identity second, and by class last.
Principled libertarians can take a W on this i guess.
>>2786077We do but we don't generally put fluoride in the water.
We probably should, but we're instinctively conservative about this sort of thing. >>2786203I think it's more because it won't make the water companies any money so they don't care to do it, and it won't make the government any money so they don't care to trigger the insane boomers that think 5G causes cancer etc
>>2786158It's not astroturfed by billionaires but it is absolutely astroturfed by the press, and a large chunk of the people it appeals to are in no way natural feminists.
It's fascinating to dig around because it's mostly due to twitter but not in the way you think. Basically a disproportionate part of it is that journalists used to casually say anti-trans things, but once twitter came about they got pushback from transgender people. Because journalists consider themselves better than normal people and expect deference, this sent them absolutely mental.
(Incidentally similar but lesser phenomena were "cybernats" and "vile Corbyn supporting trolls")
Some of the journalists in question were "feminists" (of the British sort where deporting trafficked Albanian women back to Albania to be trafficked again is okay, but god forbid the Garrick club is a single-sex
male space, or where Labour needed a female leader in 2017 but not 2020.), but that's about as far as it goes.
Rowling is a similar phenomenon. Indeed, she's got the trifecta of anti-cybernat, anti-Corbyn, anti-trans.
Truthfully I was glad of the last one. It made yanks finally understand why she was awful.Mumsnet has never been a haven of feminism, but it became a haven of TERFery. I would speculate because empty nest syndrome mums basically get no credit, while they resented the increasing public profile (and thus ostensible social status) of transwomen. But I think their resentments could've gone elsewhere.
Scotland is an interesting case because a solid chunk of grassroots ex-SNP terfery is lead by Stuart Campbell/Wings Over Scotland, a
sort of journalist
games journalist with a blog who got bored with the SNP in 2016 and started getting increasingly TERFy, probably also because someone on twitter called him out on saying something anti-trans. (Or perhaps out of seethe that LGBT people on Scottish twitter closed ranks against him when he sued Scottish Labour's leader for calling him homophobic. I'd have to check the timeline) He's a generally antagonistic wanker who was fun to have targeted at the unionist press, but is now basically aligned with them.
(He also never backs down in an argument. He once argued across several years about the physics in a Tomb Raider cutscene. In a review he argued a scene where Lara Croft jumped from one moving vehicle to another, she'd stop moving forward the minute she jumped up and splatter on the ground instead of maintaining momentum… He was wrong. Someone brought it up years later and he continued arguing he was right lmao.)
Which is to say: it's hardly a surprise, disposition wise.
Anyway: the Tory TERF turn was yank lead (hence why it opportunistically started in the 2020s rather than the late 2010s) and the anti-trans charities are almost certainly yank funded, though that's mostly bolstering an organic elite-led bigotry. (In particular: the charity commission actually finding such opportunistic shitheads are legitimate charitable organisations at all)
But Labour's TERFs were perhaps more organic. Pidcock and Duffield, for example. Pidcock being the massive outlier here by not being middle aged.
(British TERFism is fundamentally age based boomer brainrot ahead of any real politics, hence the CPB etc joining arms with the ruling class and defending the sacrosanct nature of British inequalities law and parliamentary convention in perhaps the most demanding statements ever put out by a supposed communist party.)
>>2786076Christianity is still dying rapidly across Europe but it makes sense that those few who remain or convert into it would choose brands who have a solid and identifiable worldview and specific set of aesthetics.
Anglicanism is soft, has no idea what it stands for, is being pulled apart by infighting, and was literally founded by a medieval Trumpesque figure who just wanted a divorce.
Walk into any Anglican church on a Sunday and you'll see 10-20 people in there 70s-80s-90s and make 2 mixed race families all singing "He's got the whole world in his hands".
Go into a Catholic church and you'll see Gregorian chanting, incense, giant ass statues to Mary and Saints being worshipped, while people repeat the rosary in some weird trance state.
Go to an Evangelical church and at least it'll be filled with Nigerian immigrants and you're free to roll across the floor screaming gibberish while some pastor talks about how the apocalypse is going to happen any day now.
>>2786011
>Why does a European Country love its national broadcaster
America hands typed this.
>>2786008I'm not a brit nor do I live in Britain, but I got a Restore Britain ad with some clips fearmongering about white replacement. My guess is someone paid Google to shill them ahead of the elections
>>2786203Fluoride water is completely useless at best and harmful at worse. Fluoride is good for teeth enamel when applied continuously for a few minutes, that's why fluoride toothpaste is a great invention. It's not some vitamin that you ingest and gives you good teeth it just apply a supericial protection that stick on your enamel for a few weeks and better protect the pulp or your teeth.
>>2786232
>"White replacement is a far right conspiracy theory!">'You Nazi gammon chuds are being replaced by diversity and ACKSHALLE that's s good thing "Pick one leftards
>>2786299If the government is replacing people I wish they'd hurry up and replace you already
>>2786299Both of those statement are true, but I wouldn't expect a retard to understand why
>>2786303
Not very bright are you?
>>2786008been seeing it all on newpipe, full of neonazis right wing trash and manosphrere trash is pushed onto people, it's no wonder this right wing shift is a thing in the west if anything It's impressive that there are so many at all that choose to stick with leftist thinking
>>2786307
>mfw right wing parties have done exactly this over the last 20 years
bit retarded mate
>>2786307
It's "our", not "are".
How did you even find this place?
>>2786309I was mocking the way in which idiotic sheep worship diversity, how you think the glorious Communist revolution is going to happen then?Are you and your Muslim brothers going to purge the "evil far right imperialists" from power just like what happened in Iran in the 70s, oh wait
>>2786312Don't see how simple tried and tested socialism is less realistic than your fantasies of Lowe taking power and kicking all the brown and LGBT people out, privatising everything, making church attendance mandatory, instituting a 4th Reich, and mandatory conscription into the IDF as expendable auxiliaries
>>2786316
I don't advocate socialism, I advocate a real free market. That means free movement of labour, planning deregulation, and free movement of capital and goods.
Your days of being subsidised are over, free-rider.
>>2786316
I'd choose Juche over whatever Richard Tice, Lee Anderson, and Liz Truss are offering up.
>>2786310
Were talking about what media is served you fucking spastic,at least read the comment chain before you bestow your fairy seething on us, manlet.
Right wingers should be bullied in libertarian terms.
>>2786316
And yet, the only countries in Europe without millions of recent immigrants are from the eastern block. Curious
It'll get no sympathy here but it's hilarious to be how Starmer could've run a much more successful neoliberal government if he'd actually done any preparation out of office and if he'd had good economist advisors instead of that cretin McSweeney. It was possible - not easy, but possible - for Labour to be re-elected in 2028 while having cut real terms tax and spending. You could pull that off and still remain the main party of the left at crunch time, maybe even eat up some Tory voters to offset some inevitable bleeding to the Greens… but no.
Cosmically funny in its own way.
>>2786376Starmer would be popular if he didnt (i) condemn the southport rioters or (ii) ban palestine action. his centrism is his unpopularity.
I hate to say it but some of my friends are Welsh imperialists. They do not respect the nationhood of Kernow and say it is just "West Wales".
And what of Hen Ogledd, the old north?
Cumbria is named after the brythonic people, in their own language.
>>2786378He was unpopular to begin with for being a wanker and he made it worse pissing about with winter fuel payments and disability benefit cuts in isolation instead of his first budget having so many changes nobody knew what to make of it. Winter fuel cut alone only created losers - tie it all up in a budget that also scraps NI, moves tax bands and benefits around, etc, and there'll be winners who'll fight for their gains to balance out the losers opposed to change.
If the original neoliberals understood anything, it was to not be a fucking coward. (Blair/Thatcher were admittedly both deficient in this regard, hence why so many should-be loser parasite bourgeois thrive in Britain)
>>2786524>>2786499These lands were promised to Wales in the myths and legends of King Arthur.
Any books on how Sinn Fein has developed post Goof Friday Agreement?
>>2786535Yes, but only after his second coming of Arthur shall the red dragon drive the white dragon out and slay the lion;
<But the Red signifieth the race of Britain that shall be oppressed of the White. […] Thereafter shall the German Worm be crowned and the Brazen Prince be buried. […] For a people in wood and jerkins of iron shall come upon him and take vengeance upon him for his wickedness. He shall restore their dwelling-places unto them that did inhabit them aforetime, and the ruin of the foreigner shall be made manifest. The seed of the White Dragon shall be rooted out of our little gardens and the remnant of his generation shall be decimated. The yoke of bondage shall they bear and their mother shall they wound with spades and ploughs.https://sacred-texts.com/neu/eng/gem/gem08.htmThe British regard the English as Germanic foreigners.
Will it be possible to change UK left wing parties regarding their stance on immigration?
I don't understand why they all seem to promote immigration, even doubling down on it. Not only is it a misfire in terms of the mood of the electorate, it doesn't even seem like a genuine left-wing perspective on the issue.
Obviously the focus should be on highlighting the exploitation capitalism bestows on immigrants, and the effects these subsequently have on locals, in contrast to the demonisation of immigrants that right wing parties are deploying.
It seems a given Reform will win at the next election but I can't fathom there's any hope of a left-wing victory when the parties keep this position.
>>2786622virtue signalling is more important than winning
>>2786622>>2786631"The electorate" don't exist in aggregate. You have the left, who either don't care or like immigration, and you've got the right, who care.
For a not so radical example look at the SNP. Bland socdems trending to the center - but probably immigration!
I'm too lazy to give you a full explanation but ultimately all politics is signalling. It is true that the left virtue signal, but the right vice signal. Ask yourself: is your balanced immigration policy really a serious consideration of labour market policy, or is it just trying to square the difference between virtue and vice to make up for your own vices?
As a communist I don't care about immigration and would let the government do whatever it wanted so long as it had pro immigration rhetoric - one must always at least look virtuous. As a capitalist, I would open the borders completely and tell anyone who doesn't like it to self deport. >>2786704>as a communist, i support lowering wages to bare subsistencesuch is life.
>>2786735
But practically speaking, you prefer lower wages at the expense of increased immigration, so as to boost your virtue signalling?
>>2786742That is the deluded opinion of the individual you are responding to initially, in which the world and likewise immigration can be reduced to a black and white stance of for and against
The demand you must put forward in practice as it must be understood in thought is an end to the social reproduction of an order based around capitalist profit
If you step a foot from where you were born you should be shot, not only should there be no immigration, people shouldn’t move, that dos the same thing, increases the labor supply in one area and brain drain another. Stepping outside your hometown should require a license, permit, at least three forms of identification and the whole village should throw cabbage and tomatoes at you when yiu do leave.
>>2786788
I have my shitpost permit and my dogshitpost permit you can’t touch me
>>2786794
It’s three tiers, I don’t have the money to take the safety course for the bullshitpost permit yet
Incidentally max powers or whatever that right wing wanker's name was had a fun point here: while wages in general have stagnated, the minimum wage has gone up. Britain has (by his measure at least) better pay equality than Stalin's USSR and one of the best minimum wages in the developed world despite (perhaps even causing!) stagnant productivity. So "muh wages are cut by immigration" is invariably the whinge of some dickhead upset about his differential.
>>2786748The world can in general be reduced to for and against, with middle solutions invariably leaning one way or the other (or in rare cases: revealing a personal obsession and well thought out solution… Basically irrelevant to the options on the table from real powerbrokers)
Which makes sense when you remember these issues are mostly personality tests, not policy questions. I have no influence over immigration or transgender rights or Scottish independence or any other issue: but I can decide if I'd like to associate with racists or libs, middle aged TERFs or people under 35, progressive young Scots or reactionary old Scots and antipathetic, occasionally self-hating English, and so on.
>>2786834
If the aim was to suppress wages you would have to explain why the Cameron/May/Johnson/Sunak government hiked the minimum wage (at an accelerating rate compared to Blair) and created the national living wage (yeah yeah not the real living wage: still a price floor), you'd also have to explain why Starmer is successfully cutting immigration.
You'd also have to explain why most of our business was run into the ground anyway.
No, "the state is grotesquely incompetent and just fucking around" really is a better explanation than "they're all really smart and imposing their class interests" (the Tories didn't die for imposing the bourgeois class interest, they're dying for abandoning it!)
>>2786837Your ideals are being informed in the context of mainstream trends within a consumer based audience for news and British political life
Deciding that one day you agree with whatever one factional cause suggests as a result of its own gerrymandering as a compromise on your own uninformed beliefs is the norm; there is little differentiation on both sides of the supposed debate on immigration as both are just the result of the reproduction of the image of social relations within British capitalist society
>>2786499They're not very good at cardinal directions then are they?
>>2786813
>This kind of stupidity is why I'd rather endorse all sorts of horrors than affiliate with openly anti immigration types.
So yes..? You tolerate "horrors" so long as you can virtue signal?
If immigration is bad why is not all moving and travel bad in general? Because the bourgeois set up the borders?
>>2786820The real shit is that entire sectors like Care would collapse without people willing to work for poor wages because the average brit, as a result of the collapse of institutional proletarian power, seeks individualist escapes from poor working conditions. Care is a shit job and most people go into it because 1) they are bleeding hearts 2) they have no other choice (lots of white british in 2 but still). The anti-immigration workerist would just say "well if you just stop immigration the wages would rise and people would do it!" but no. The british proletarian has been individualised and atomised to the point where they only want to escape that kind of labour. This is why a trade union movement like britain's existed in the first place: it sent people down into the pits as much as it fought for their honour and dignity. Thatcherism, the ever cannibalistic mess, destroyed this labour discipline in the working class and promoted hedonistic individualism that means there is no longer a sense of proletarian duty. If you are artistic (or gay) you escape to the big cities, if you are cognitively about the median you go to university, if you are relatively attractive you can now sell pictures of your willy/fanny (Bonnie Bue worked as an NHS recruiter!). The rural housing crisis doesn't help this ofcourse (if we provisioned for working class rural housing a lot of the countryside wouldn't be on the verge of implosion but anyways) but in industries like care, agricultural labour, food processing, cleaning, taxi driving etc. these are the fundamentals in urban areas too. This isn't even a race thing no british born asian or black kid is like "yes I am going to be a cleaner for the rest of my life". In a society with labour discipline it is possible but we destroyed that. The tory reaction is to swing between "well these are just
starter jobs you aren't meant to do it for the rest of your life!" (oh so food processing is just a fad for kids to do in the school holidays yeah?) or have this image of millions of neets claiming disability refusing to do this work so they must have a gun pointed at them so they will. Neither of these are real or close to reality; if there was such a reserve pool of labour we would have never had the crisis of work post-pandemic that lead to the Boriswave, and the barbour crowd really don't understand how the benefits system works that there are just more than a million people living off of it. I know some people who have "anxiety" who don't work but they are universally middle class and living off the tit of their parents, not the state (and there aren't just huge numbers in towns like Newark that can just be shuffled into care).
I don't know what the solution is, it isn't infinite immigration and unregulated borders but the neolibs are right that without immigration, including the Boriswave, this country would have a severe labour shortage.
>>2786865>labour disciplineIdealism, voluntarism
>>2786916Is it idealism or voluntarism when I tell you to do something with a gun pointed a your skinny head?
>>2786865The solution is to end capitalism or at the very least to implement severe social democracy. I worked as a support worker at homeless hostels for a bit over a year and the job itself wasn't even that bad, dealing with the homeless residents etc was occasionally difficult but usually they just were happy for someone to not treat them like a piece of shit, it was the miserable working conditions that was the issue, dickhead managers, complete lack of standards in the organisation. The office culture was so fucking shit, so many absolute arseholes working there that just wanted to make the whole thing miserable. On top of that my schedule was for some god forsaken reason like morning one day, evening the next day, then morning the next day, then morning again then evening, and so on.
The point I'm trying to make is that these jobs drive away people that would have been willing to work hard for not even that much money if they just were treated a little better. The people that stay are the ones that thrive in that toxic culture and get off on bullying people.
My point is that the worst part about being a cleaner or a carer isn't cleaning up shit, it's getting treated like shit every day by the organisation.
>>2786933>Support workerLiterally one job I will never miss
14 hour shifts back to back for an income that is nothing after tax working in an industry that is just designed to bleed you dry
>>2786935Yeah it's absolutely a predatory industry, and we were so unprepared for what we were doing too. I had a two day induction and then they threw me into looking after 60 people along with one other worker. I didn't even have any first aid training at all, it was fucked. But I was lucky to even have a job so whatever. I'm doing better now as a debt adviser, it's pretty easy honestly
>>2786865Not a bad point, but for devil's advocacy purposes: Max headroom would argue that part of the problem is the minimum wage increases eating pay differentials. If you're given the choice between £8/hr stacking shelves or £12/hr doing social care, some people will choose care for the extra money. If you set the minimum wage to £12/hr, the supermarket wage goes up but the care wage probably doesn't (because productivity in care hasn't increased), but now most people will skip care because it's more work without more pay.
which then creates a situation where the main people who'll be careful workers for minimum wage being those who'll be deported if they change jobs.
>>2786916Material reality read David Harvey on Fordism.
>>2786987I mean you could make that argument but I feel like care jobs were never paid better than supermarkets anyways.
>>2786933>My point is that the worst part about being a cleaner or a carer isn't cleaning up shit, it's getting treated like shit every day by the organisation.I am not sure that is really the case. Your example is a bit different because support workers do tend to be bleeding hearts but it isn't really a job of last recourse. Nobody is a life-long cleaner anymore; sure you can't live on it economically but you also can't socially. I am reminded of my time in security: even if I was being paid £15 or £20 an hour the hours themselves are so unsociable (let alone the nature of "nomadic" security moving from gig to gig) that you can't really have a proper existence doing it. part of that is 24hrification and the death of Sunday as the day of rest (also the death of Monday as the Day of Rest for those in hospo) but yeah. This imo is what truly breeds a lot of the despair and alienation in modern britain, less economic poverty in of itself but a time poverty created by unsociable work hours, harsh staffing rotas, a lack of social amenities for those who don't work 9-5, awful commute times, and generally the collapse of social civil society.
This isn't me trying to do some like post-materialist "It isn't about MONEY!!!" shit just I feel like actually most people would accept relatively lower wages if you had the time to fucking live. How this squares vis-a-vis immigration is that immigration, especially from non-anglophone global south, put up with these harsher time conditions because when you speak fucking Tigray you have little to do in your spare time anyways may as well work and eek out an existence in the subaltarn of the first world.
>>2786999I mean that's kind of what I was saying though. It's not the act of cleaning that's the issue, it's what you're supposed to put up with. Absolutely the lack of any amenities for night workers etc is appalling, it's no wonder they die sooner on average. Some jobs do need to be done in the evening or at night but there's no excuse for zero hours bullshit so that you don't even know when you're supposed to be working one day to the next. Even working at night wouldn't be quite that bad if it was consistent and you had one week on one week off or similar.
So yes immigrants do fill those miserable jobs but if we reformed work to be less miserable we wouldn't need as much immigration.
>>2786987On one hand, what anon said:
>>2786994 (I guess you could substitute Deliveroo or Uber or shit although if you are doing taxi rather than food delivery there is a relatively high capital investment first).
Regardless, the (correct) retort to that is collective bargaining in the care sector. The issue is that that doesn't stop Tarquin (who posts behind a Wittgenstein avi on twitter) complaining about infinity nigerians working in the care sector.
Also at the risk of sounding like a writer for The Economist this shit only gets worse as age demographics take hold. Ignoring the Care sector will expand because of more olds (all of this applies to low level service work, food processing etc too) the decline in young people entering the workforce will just make the require for migration harder. I have yet to see the right actually come up with a response for it. They hate the neoliberal response (promoted migration) sure but even if you get your nazi "complete remigration" wetdream you still have the baseline problem, if not worse. Only countries that have found a way around it are those who can promote migration in a way that doesn't cause much social tension (Australia getting plenty of white western european migrants who will work in hospitality, Quebec having a "better a black francophone than a white anglo" mentality, Spain getting latinos, New Zealand moving towards a post-colonial mentality in which pacific islanders are a part of the "in group"). LIke long long term the solution is automation and the creation of a society where menial labour is ended; otherwise you will just have youth slaving away from an army of olds.
An idea I've always had to resolve the inherent democratic tension between a voting body of olds who outnumber the economic productive is in effect syndicalism, maybe on an interwar austrian "state-mandated youth council" way but not sure how you could implement it in practice. A general revival of the trade union movement would safeguard against mass gerontocracy though.
>>2787007>So yes immigrants do fill those miserable jobs but if we reformed work to be less miserable we wouldn't need as much immigration.The one thing I will say is that there needs to be some kind of way to deal with the dynamic that if you are looks-wise an 8 or above, or you are a 5 or above and willing to do weird shit, you can just exit the labour market and sell yourself online. 4% of women in britain have onlyfans accounts, and a stupid number of men entering the porn industry are builders (at a time when we need more builders, they are paid well, and the yoy numbers total are decreasing). Its like the mirror of a brain drain: a looks drain as it were.
>>2787026I dunno man, I think you really overstate the case. 95% of those women are probably making no money off it, and very very few of the men.
>>2787060that only works if you're a UK politician.
>>2787026>4% of women in britain have onlyfans accounts3.8% of those 4% barely makes pocket money from it
>>2787267>>2787030And how many of those are sex trafficking victims?
>>2787270Almost none and who give a shit about that anyway when sex trafficking now means "any whore that regret it and/or try to rebrand".
We wasted so many political capital on radfem gynoslave bullshit like this, that was more destructive than any cringe transhumanist communist lolcow.
CPB put a leaflet through my door and now i'm annoyed because i've been reminded the world's shittiest communist party exists.
It's absolutely sick that a club of politically/socially ossified transphobic boomer social democrats believe they can go around calling themselves *the* communist party.
In both social and economic policy they are indistinguishable from Starmerite Labour.
>>2787394it really is. if it was the CPGB-ML you could admire their commitment to the bit, but no, we get labour 2.0
Why don't you make a Communist Party of England?
CPE sounds decent enough, okay who would actually be up for us forming a party? We can have a CPW and CPS too and work together where we agree.
>>2787409It's Socialism or Barbarism and we are NOT getting socialism.
>>2787030>>2787267I mean even i that is the case do you think it is economically productive to have people be able to opt out of productive labour like that?
>>2787418>>2787410Tbf the PGC already exists and i think is a relatively good model. Their Actionist wing "Welsh Underground Network" is something worth following imo. Connolly Youth Movement are pretty sound too. Issue is you would in essence need to invent an English form of Celtic Nationalism, which the vast majority of the existing left would reject anyways.
>>2787366brits at least have those, in eastern europe its even worse
>>2787023>I have yet to see the right actually come up with a response for it.Start having at least 5 babies per woman like a hundred years ago.
>>2787656At least it's some kind of anti Israel story even if for the most stupid reason imaginable…
>>2787678The presenter says that Netanyahu is very sorry about it
So its just a cover story
>>2787681I mean sure but could have just ignored it entirely
>>2787472>Start having at least 5 babies per woman like a hundred years ago.1) you first
2) and how exactly are you going to achieve that?
3) lag time is about 30 years
4) is our goal infinite population growth?
>>2787428I mean kinda? Being an onlyfans creator is no different from being an author or whatever other job that only creates entertainment products
From Ireland not Britain, but the Belfast Connolly Youth Movement branch were expelled from the main group over stupid factional stuff and now the CYM is falling appart.
https://www.instagram.com/qubconnollyyouth/p/DXU_lJvCHUE>>2787724Laughably predictable, as this move is calculated on the need to appease both domestic and foreign British interests according to pro-Israeli sentiment
Farage must now sell overseas deterrence according to a vested interest in rearmament among military officials to his wider support base whilst absolving the likes of Jenrick in their attempt to restructure judicial and parliamentary bodies to their own ends (r.e. a British bill of rights)
That he labels it rot, much like Truss and Co, is an indication that once in power they will attempt to purge the state of their enemies, principally through a slashing of jobs, under the name of efficiency and economic necessity thus centralising powers and riding roughshod over the main obstacle, Parliament and the party system itself, which it now derides as useless.
In actuality all of this is contained in the embryo of the Reform party. Should Britain enter a recession the fruit of austerity will come to season as budgetary cuts at the local and state level as well as unemployment and wider generational poverty ripen into open crisis.
>>2787067People on the street get arrested just for staying the obvious fact that Israel deserves utter annihilation
One of the worst ideas of "classical liberalism" that we lost was distrust of and opposition to the very concept of a standing army. Even if international circumstances make the maintenance of one necessary, at all times it should be no more than the minimum necessary to make conquering us more of a pain in the arse than it's worse. (Extorting us? Who cares! Just pay the fucking guy!) Instead we live in a world where even some gullible socialists and socdems think there's a case for throwing money that could better go on infrastructure, public services, or - yes, really - tax cuts, on letting some lads play around with tanks and guns in the hopes that one day they'll get to use them to kill others and blow up the tanks and guns their governments wasted their money on. Oh! How optimistic they were back in 1989 to think that all these petty disputes would be subsumed into one global capital market where everyone'd know that if you hate something, you don't blow it up - just short it.
War is the one topic where one should think like a ruthless economist, in dollar terms only. Is what you are fighting for worth the cost, and if so, is it worth the realistically-priced-in cost of not winning? If not - and it is very rare that it is otherwise - pack up and go home. Swords into plowshares with which you can pay any ransom.
>>2787996I mean the alternative is a conscript army or militias, the former is pretty undesired in a modern society and the latter can't really stand up to modern warfare. Any idea of a "democratic army" is pretty dead as a result of the Nazis.
>>2787706It's not my idea; it's what chuds say.
>>2788145Why can't we just have a professional army that is like 0.5% of GDP?
It's been appalling seeing mostly sensible people being like "yeah fuck austerity, fuck Starmer, but we need to have a stronger military to protect us from Russia/China'. I try to talk sense into them but of course they just say I'm naive etc etc.
The BBC has the following purposes and goals:
>Defend and promote neoliberalism
>Defend and promote the monarchy
>Defend and promote zionism and Israel
>Defend and promote NATO and the USA (while demonising rivals such as China)
>Defend and promote right wing social positions (interview Reform UK and TERF groups as often as possible)
>Hide all this beneath a shallow performative veneer of liberal social inclusivity by putting interracial couples and disabled people in every show in a purely exploitative tokenistic manner, which you can point to when called out on your actions
>Ensure complete media silence on left wing perspectives, on opposition to the ongoing genocide, make such views appear fringe, marginal, extreme, not popular enough to receive coverage
>>2788847>Hide all this beneath a shallow performative veneer of liberal social inclusivity by putting interracial couples and disabled people in every show in a purely exploitative tokenistic mannerWhy do you see this as inauthentic? They just love israel/jewish feelings and don't like transgenders it's very compatible with being an anti-racist briton.
In fact "i HATE racism and i LOVE down syndrome folx FUCK queers tho!" is one of the most widespread ideology on earth.
>>2788853>>2788855You're probably right, I imagine that outlook is the norm especially in the big cities and the London BBC employee bubble. Probably is widespread.
It's just not something I've ever seen much irl. I live in a shitty rust belt style impoverished Reform voting small town in the East Midlands so inclusivity of any kind isn't really a big thing here.
People refer to the local corner shop and chinese with slurs you can probably deduce, there's used nitrous oxide canisters on every other street, and you're just as likely to see some schizo in a MAGA hat as a black person.
So, last year’s “Unite the Kingdom” (more like “Burn down the kingdom”) rally in London by Tommy 10 names and pretty much the entirety of the British reactionaries, as well as the neocon wing of the chudintern, managed to draw more than 100k (at least based on police and media estimates) vandalisers and thugs at their march, with Elon speaking on a big screen trying to incite civil war to overthrow Starmer’s government. The counterprotest by “Stand Up Against Racism” has been abysmal, at just around 5k. That Elon managed to get Angloid chuds to riot via X’itter was in itself incredible in terms of mind control.
Well, on the 16th of May of this year, Tommy now wants to repeat the same damage to London now that he has been given all of central London for his march, whilst the police denied that space to pro-Palestine protesters:
https://www.counterfire.org/article/all-out-on-16-may-for-palestine-against-tommy-robinson/This is a test for the British left as a whole. If they can’t stand up to the fascists of Britain and the puppets of the oligarchs and stop their march, then the British left will likely be on the brink. Manchester was a promising sign, so hopefully the same can be done in London, even as the police will try their best to quash leftists counter-protests whilst shielding the far-right. I wonder if Antifa will be silent this time as well, like last year in London.
Ok, so me and my British friend (a comrade of mine) discussed on the political implications in the west of the Iran war, and how society is being polarised. My friend, reporting from the UK, said:
> But my point was that society has become so political that normal functions are starting to break down. I have neighbours who don't talk to each other because they're upset with each other over their political views. I have friends who's families have been torn apart by political arguments. Political parties who care little for the everyday person, they're just transfixed on their own agenda's and power grabs. Meanwhile, ordinary people breakup with their own families, their own kids over political arguments for parties that don't care for them or their families.
> So many good ordinary people are being radicalised to the far left and far right. Communities are being damaged, we've had people come to our area and put up stickers and flags as part of some mission to intimidate immigrants. These so called nationalists, did they stop to think about the people in these communities or ask if it was OK to put up flags and banners outside peoples homes? Of course not, these nationalists don't care about locals any more than they care about immigrants, it's pure racism and hate being rammed down peoples throats. My neighbour is elderly and alone and she talks about being afraid to go out because of nationalists putting up signs that just makes her feel unsafe.
> So what I'm talking about is not getting swept up in the politics of hate, left or right. Politics doesn't speak to me, it's purely about power and wealth and using hate to anger people enough to give it to them.
> I don't want our country to get involved in the Iran conflict, it's none of our business. We shouldn't be telling other countries how to life or think, that's up to them. We should focus on domestic issue, help the elderly and young, build communities and where there is immigration then we should find ways to make it work rather than using it as a convenient excuse to stir up hate.
So I, as a yank, told him:
> You're getting it backwards here. The reason that society is becoming so political is that society is already breaking down. People are radicalizing because social structures and economic foundations that they've known for their entire lives, or if they are young were counting on being able to rely on like their grandparents and parents, are breaking down. This is causing the mass politicization. Consider the case of Weimar Germany: Germany was defeated on the battle-field in World War I, there was mass starvation from the British blockade, the economy collapsed, the sailors and soldiers mutinied at the end and many people became revolutionary, the Kaiser abdicated along with 20 lesser German princelings (remember Germany was a pathwork of small localities before unification) and then you had right wing death squads that were brought in to stop the revolution known as the freikorp but the overwhelming majority of the vote in the first post-war free election went to the left (78%). The Government that killed off the left wing radicals, including heroes of the revolution Luxembourg and Liebknecht, was staffed by the SPD which had previously been a doctrinaire Marxist party but had become corrupted with the rise of the revisionist current in Marxism and had went along with the Kaiser/Ludendorff's war. So what happened? They recruited right wing paramilitaries made up of former officers to kill the radicals, many of whom had been part of their own party, it was the only way in the view of traitors in leadership to save capitalism and bourgeois democcracy. And they were almost certainly right. While the Civil War in 1918/1919 in Germany never escalated to the same level seen as the Russian Civil War, it did claim 20,000 lives, while a drop in the bucket compared to the carnage of WWI, it permanently damaged Weimar society.
> It split the Left permanently between the social democratic SPD and the communist KPD. The Left remained the most powerful voting block but as it was split, the SPD could not exercise hegemony as they did in the early days of the republic, and indeed, the SPD founded the republic itself. The parties of the center collapsed functionally, they could lead governments by aligning with parties and figuresof the center left/right but could not govern as a force in themselves. And in Weimar, all the political parties had armed paramilitary wings, including the centrist parties. A large part of this was the result of WWI giving so many men recent military experience but perhaps the biggest factor of all was the "small scale" civil war that broke out in the late 1910s. Things might have pacified after the SPD's bloodletting if not for the invasion from France, which put additional pressure on the German mark, desperate to keep people employed to stop further revolution (plus earn foreign currency/gold via exports to pay reparations to the Western allies) the government ran the printing press which initially led to moderate/manageable inflation but later culminated in hyperinflation. Hjalmar Schacht undid the damage by scrapping the old German mark and launching a new one – successfully, but the damage was done, the middle class basically lost all its savings in anything that wasn't a hard asset such as gold bullion or real estate. And on the latter point, a popular song called "drinking away grandma's house" tells the story of selling a house that belonged to a deceased grandma and only having enough money to get the family good and drunk off the proceeds of the sale due to hyperinflation.
> Things did stabilize but the damage caused by the world war and hyper-inflation made Germans an understandably miserable lot. Economic growth, on the whole in the stable period of 1924-29 was about 2%, well below the 4.5-6% that had occurred prior to the war in Germany. Then the Great Depression happened and then the challenge was not a food blockade, long wartime workdays, or inflation but deflation and mass unemployment. The rest is history. The center parties actually gained some ground in the more stable period of the 20s but never enough to lead on their own because the overall experienced had caused the center to collapse with voters either turning to the far left (KPD) the still nominally left-wing and Marxist SPD and the parties of the right, the Nazi party most infamous among them. One of the big challenges for centrist party beyond not having enough votes is they'd never really wanted the Republic in the first place, like the right wing parties, but figures from said parties were put in the position of being "reluctant republicans" caretakers for a democratic republic they never even wanted and broadly-speaking, the middle class they represented did not want. The social base that supported the republic was the working class and as one can imagine the disasters of the post-war era even soured them on the republic that existed, but it was for this reason that Hitler did not restore the monarchy or make himself king, the Third Reich was nominally a republic but in reality a dictatorship. Broadly-speaking, the right controlled many of the most important functions of government such as the military, the police, the bureaucracy, etc, etc. these people had served the old regime and didn't change their spots when it became a republic or when the SPD was in power, they were actively and secretly making plans for war and re-armament before Hitler came to power, for instance.
> I went on a little too long with this but maybe it can help you understand. It was the economic and social disasters of military defeat and then the great depression that made people become radicalized. Likewise, it was the prosperity that preceded WWI which was responsible for the revisionist class-collaborationist trend in the German SPD and the trade unions it represented. Some studies have even argued there was almost no unemployment in Germany in the last decade of the 19th century. The end of this prosperity was inevitable as the world economy began to enter recession in 1913, which might give one pause to think about why WWI happened so soon after.
> Economic conditions have been stagnant to declining for many people since the financial crisis of 2008 in the West. And then the pandemic turbo-charged that misery, with many people experiencing unemployment, high inflation, deaths of people close to them, illness, and long bouts of social isolation. I think its notable too that Germany was also struck by the deadly "Spanish flu" (in reality it began in America but Spain was the first place to report it extensively bc it had no war censorship as a neutral) and some scholars have even argued that areas hit harder by the flu were more likely to vote for the Nazi party.
> Yes, if you look at the typical mainstream party its dispiriting to see people cutting off long time friends and family in defense of parties that are stuffed to the brim with unprincipled opportunists who would sell them out in a second and do constantly. Outside true cultists for these parties, most are not unaware of their flaws, but they now want to enforce genuflection and allegiance to whatever mainstream party comes closest to fulfilling their ideals and has a shot of winning elections.The real danger, perhaps, will be when people no longer have faith that the mainstream party closest to their beliefs will make things even slightly better if they win or has no realistic path to power and so they begin to form armed groups to try to take that power directly. That may or may not be preceeded by parties of the "extremes" (I find it so lazy that just because group is fringe the mainstream view is they are inherently bad or their arguments are wrong) making electoral bids themselves and beginning to displace the mainstream party they are to the left or right of.
> Anyways, the phase you describe with local nationalists trying to intimidate immigrants is the start of that. Its the beginning of a civil war phase, much like how ᴉuᴉlossnW started by having his blackshirts beat up striking peasants on behalf of landowners.A social target is singled out and they begin to mobilize to force it into submission either through mere intimidation or through violence. In the beginning, it must be a group marginal enough that it doesn't radicalize the majority of the population against them or provoke substantial counter-resistance.
> Pedos are a scapegoat like this and that's why we see a lot of similarities between "pedo-hunters" and say some group of rowdy chuds that beat up an immigrant. In both cases, the police often look the other way, wink at it, or openly approve of the violence. It is often the case in Western capitalist countries that a far right layer is cultivated for the purpose of having a repressive element that can be mobilized against strikes, protests or revolution or who can act as a chauvinistic supplement in the case of a war that requires mobilization. Lumpens and gutter people like Tommy Robinson are a good example of it.
> My point is that you simply cannot have 1990s/2000s era politics without the economic and social conditions that made them possible. Maybe the shocks and declines that have been suffered are not as extreme as Germany from 1914-1933 but it turns out that a frog WILL jump out of a pot that is heating up slowly to a boiling point. Western populations are reacting the same way as the heat is being turned up on them too
I tried my best to be sensible on the matter, but I do not think that western countries will remain stable for long. Best case scenario, it’ll be like Italy’s years of lead which, as you should know by now, was essentially an effort by NATO-linked intelligence agencies to undermine the Italian left by organising fascist terrorism against it.
Will the British Isles become the first place in history to descend into Civil War because of an inability to check chud agitprop brainrot? At this point, it looks not only like it’s possible but like a foregone conclusion. Some would argue that civil war is very unlikely here, that more riots, and harassment is on the table.
But that is an opinion that a liberal in 1880s Britain would have held but by 1913 Britain was basically already in a state of Civil War over Ireland that was only post-poned by World War. It likely would have spread into Great Britain itself given the connections between Carson's extremist Anglo-Irish protestant movement to the British aristocracy and the large number of Irish people living in Britain plus the drift of liberal opinion towards more freedom for Ireland, such as Irish home-rule (which was somewhat different from actual secession). And the Civil War post-poned by WWI did actually occur, first during the Easter rising and then during the Irish Civil War among Irish nationalists themselves in the late teens and early 20s. It’s worth noting here that while Catholic Ireland was granted autonomy in the aftermath of the 1916 Easter Rising it wasn't actually formally independent but was still formally part of the British Empire. The Irish Republic wasn't declared until 1949 and this terminated its membership in the commonwealth making it a fully independent country. Technically, the Civil War that occurred in Catholic Ireland after WWI was a Civil War within the British Empire itself. Then you had the troubles in the 1970s in 1970s, which made Britain the only Western country to have a low-level Civil War/insurgency going on in the same period.
Its worth noting that Britain in 1913 was really still at its apex of its power, still had many advantages in business, finance, technology etc. had one of the highest living standards in the world, basically ran much of the world and by doing so could compel even the parts of the world it didn't run to comply with many but of course not all of its wishes. There was an economic crisis brewing in the run up to WWI but it didn't effect Britain alone and was quite minor compared to recessions past. Things can go from bad to worse even in periods where its otherwise unthinkable – perhaps especially because people are unaware of the danger.
But, even when people are aware of the danger and deep crises and structural issues at play, as most Americans were prior to the Civil War, its often the case that people can still stumble into disaster almost absent-mindedly. Of course, the Civil War in the US now appears inevitable to most historians in retrospect and many Americans thought it was inevitable at the time. But at the Battle of First Bull run, you had picnickers showing up to watch the first battle between the union and the confederacy. Many people had no conception of how bad it would get and how long it would actually last. Normalcy bias is a significant problem in people's reception. You often don't think that things will get really bad when you go outside and the birds are chirping, the sun is shining and life appears to be just going on as it always has. But if you look beneath the surface, its oftentimes very easy to see that a break of some sort is coming. We oftentimes don't know how it might manifest or what form it might take, hence black swans but its often not hard for critically-minded to see something coming down the pike even at the time.
I'm not saying Civil War in Britain will happen. It seems VERY likely at this point. But that the status quo cannot go on as it has is obvious and there is no one offering a credible positive alternative to that status quo at present and that's often a sign in itself that things will get bad, especially as Starmer’s leadership has been the most unpopular in British history to date.
>>2789050Strange because you’d think that the big cities, being places for the elites, would typically want said cities to be better policed, especially London which is one of the world’s financial centres.
Then again, I could see the scenario you described being more applicable to the former industrial belt of northern Britain as well as its impoverished south. Say, would white people be victims of said stabbings as well? It’s because lately I’ve heard increasing reports of (seemingly white) youth gangs committing both petty and violent crime. While it does relate to society breaking down, I wonder how far will this racism resemble more the more disciplined fascism of Oswald Mosley, or the anti-social gangterism of modern Neo-Nazis who may spare white people but whose criminal inclinations means that white people may not be spared anymore than the average gang member.
Looks like Clockwork Orange’s Britain is coming to fruition. Really scary for my comrade, who suffers from high anxiety.
>>2789058>Strange because you’d think that the big cities, being places for the elites, would typically want said cities to be better policed, especially London which is one of the world’s financial centres.The place for the elites isnt the cities, its the manors in the countryside. The cities are where they go to indulge in prole culture but id associate the elite more with manor houses in the countryside with acres of land rather than city mansions.
>>2789048>Will the British Isles become the first place in history to descend into Civil War because of an inability to check chud agitprop brainrot?Yugoslavia
>>2789306All we're missing is a gammon shoving a glass bottle up his arse and blaming a p***
>>2789531>Skip to the communist discussion part because this is usually where every rightoid outs himself as a retard<Triggernometry guys are smart enough to point out that the newer generations are doing worse than the older generations and material conditions are creating resentment and anger which is leading kids towards communism>Retarded "christian nationalist" states that actually the reason why kids are turning to communism is because media pushes anti-Nazi hateHOLY KEK this guy is absolutely brain dead how did he make Konstantin look like fucking Einstein? He didn't even address the argument he just veered off and blamed it on social media ahahahahaa
>>2789550His point is that if you are too materialist in your diagnosis, you essentially end up at communism, which is a bad self-report.
Emily Price
A Welsh Liberal Democrat Senedd election candidate has apologised and will withdraw from campaigning after offensive comments were uncovered by Nation.Cymru in an online chatroom.
Iwan Elliot Thomas was selected to stand sixth on the Liberal Democrats list in the Sir Fynwy Torfaen constituency in the May 7 Senedd election.
He also works as a campaign organiser for Welsh Lib Dem leader Jane Dodds and Member of Parliament David Chadwick.
Until last year, Thomas was a student at Aberystwyth University, where he served as an administrator of an unofficial Discord chatroom with around 600 members.
The communication app is an invite-only virtual community hub designed for chatting via text, voice, or video.
Screenshots obtained by Nation.Cymru showed that between 2023 and 2024, Thomas posted a series of offensive comments about women in the chatroom and repeatedly described himself as a “Welsh communist and “anarchist”.
During one discussion with members of the Discord group, Thomas wrote: “Me trying to figure out the entire fucking game. Stupid game. I just want to live out my Communist Wales dreams.”
In another message sent in April 2024 during a chatroom discussion about whether he should study in America, Thomas wrote: “I’d get skewered immediately for being a Communist”.
It is unclear why Thomas was selected to stand for the Welsh Liberal Democrats in next month’s Senedd election, given the party does not share communist values.
Clash
In a message posted during the 2024 general election campaign, Thomas also appeared to mock the party he would later seek to represent in the Senedd.
Responding to a commenter who wrote “vote for Plaid Cymru” Thomas said: “Vote Plaid. Vote Green. Vote SNP. Vote LibDems” – followed by a crying emoji.
“Vote independents if they are decent. Avoid Workers Party please they are terf central,” he added.
In separate post, Thomas made a misogynistic remark about a woman he had clashed with in an online dispute on X, formerly Twitter.
He wrote: “Terfs usually can’t defend their views so they clasp onto an insult they can use against their opponent and do nothing but use.
“I.e. I am a man complaining about a woman, therefore I must be a misogynist.
“She wouldn’t ever respond to my questions or statements just keep calling me a misogynist and fat.
“Vile woman I hope her menopause is horrific.”
Abuse
TERF stands for “trans-exclusionary radical feminist” and refers to a strand of feminism that rejects the inclusion of transgender women as women – particularly in women-only spaces.
The Discord chatroom overseen by Thomas made headlines in August 2023 after a women’s officer at Aberystwyth University Students’ Union resigned, saying she had been subjected to online abuse and threats of violence because of her views on women’s rights.
Ms Davies reported the messages circulating in the server to the students’ union, prompting action that led to one student being suspended from society committees for three months.
A subsequent university investigation dismissed allegations of transphobia against Ms Davies.
Screen grabs from the chatroom show that Thomas himself had waded into the row, making light of a message posted by an individual who threatened to stab Ms Davies.
In a comment published by Thomas in the chatroom, he said the threatening post was “not a great message” but added that it was “not a serious one either”.
‘Creature’
In a separate message about Ms Davies, he wrote: “For any freshers dw [don’t worry] Aberystwyth is still a great uni, just people like Charlotte make this uni worse.”
In a further Discord post, Thomas referred to Ms Davies as a “creature”.
He wrote: “Just wana say this is a great uni with even greater students, one which is super open and welcoming.
“Just a shame we have a few creatures like Charlotte.”
Nominations for the May 7 Welsh election have now closed meaning Thomas cannot withdraw as a candidate for the Liberal Democrats.
However, the party has confirmed he will no longer take part in any campaigning in Sir Fynwy Torfaen.
Apology
With polling predicting the Welsh Lib Dems could be wiped out in the Senedd following the May 7 vote, it is highly unlikely that Thomas would have won a seat.
A Welsh Liberal Democrats spokesperson said: “Iwan has apologised for his comments and deeply regrets making them.
“There is no place for this type of behaviour within the Liberal Democrats and our society.
“Iwan will be stepping back from campaigning in the Sir Fynwy Torfaen constituency in the upcoming election and has agreed to take up appropriate training.”
https://nation.cymru/news/lib-dem-senedd-candidate-deeply-regrets-offensive-chatroom-comments-uncovered-by-nation-cymru/>>2789582Lol. What a twat. Could have at least joined the greens
>>2789582tbh with the state of british communist parties i would rather join on a BOURGEOIS SOCIAL DEMOCRAT party lmao do i dont judge althrough it is horrible being scolded for being right
>>2789109If I know anything about the UK, its that its cyclical in its boom and bust.
We've had the boom, welcome to the bust.
What did Starmer mean when he said "meep meep" yesterday?
>>2789035>>2789041>>2789048>>2789050Given that Brits, like the rest of the West, are all disabled, autistic and fat, and they barely have guns on their hands it'll be different diasporas and migrant communities killing eachother like blacks in Amerimuttlandia do.
>>2789058>Say, would white people be victims of said stabbings as well?Why wouldn't they be? Neither the brown nor the white hoodlums like the normie YTs.
>>2789646nah, immigrants tend to behave because they have too much to lose long term, its going to be council estate scrotes of all colors left behind by the wellfare estates and ghettoized into small sections of the most deprived areas of cities.
>>2789585Libdems aren't even social democrat though
>>2789741She's trying to be "one of the good ones"
>>2789741https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/apr/22/olly-robbins-starmer-sacking-ministers-cabinet-meeting
>The home secretary, Shabana Mahmood, is understood to have questioned whether it was justifiable to sack Robbins for his failure to tell Starmer that Mandelson had failed vetting, and then to praise him as an outstanding civil servantHer problem is Starmer's problem
>>2789747but he is a zionist who gets off on arresting your nan for going down to a pally protest, sounds like she needs to stop smoking crack
1,000,000 vacant homes in UK
350,000 homeless in UK
5,000 nightly rough sleepers in UK
>>27897865000 is a massive underestimate from my experience
>>2789752I was hoping that was whiskey
>>2789795i mean i believed you had a source but i dont believe the source
>>2789795stats like this get massaged all the time in the same way 'unemployment' figures do
>>2789816And your source is "trust me bro".
>>2789817Unemployment is accurate within its guidelines. The total number of the unemployed is still accessible by the category of "economic inactivity", however, which is available via government figures;
>In December 2025 to February 2026, the number of people aged 16+ in employment was 34.33 million. The employment rate for people aged 16 to 64 was 75.0%, down slightly from 75.1% a year earlier.https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9366/<in 2022, 22% of working age people in England, Scotland and Wales were economically inactive – this means they were out of work and not looking for a jobhttps://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/unemployment-and-economic-inactivity/economic-inactivity/latest/So total number of unemployment is around 25% (1/4) of all adults.
>>2789832Yes this is what I mean really, they push people off unemployment into bullshit categories but in reality they are still unemployed.
See the difference in 'self employed' but making under 10k a year people and those unemployed - they push you onto self employment for a year if you ask and you dont have to attend meetings or justify your time spent on jobs while still getting full UC entitlement.
>>2789788>5000 is a massive underestimate from my experience>>2789795My experience is also that these tend to be quite heavily under count.
>>2789832I used to work in homeless services, I know how many people are sleeping rough, the council won't even believe you're doing it unless they send someone to see you doing it - then they have to be seen sleeping rough 3 times before they actually put you on the priority list
>>2789872Since you KNOW the real numbers, what are they?
>>2789853… And you can look at stats for the self-employed as well.
The question is whether government figures are accurate, which they appear to be, even if they are categorised a certain way.
>>2790528The Reform voting pensioner fears the drug addict ubermensch
>>2790528Why does the acid look like that? Why is it so expensive?
>>2790605Small miracle that him and his cabinet survived the immediate furore of the Mandelson scandal
>>2790528I hate the fearmongering around the Greens so fucking much, it's just so moronic.
>>2790369Why are you always trying to act out? Can you not act like a butthurt debatebro? This is an anonymous imageboard, your ego is not on the line.
Kofi Offeh, aka "King Atehene", 36, has been deported today back to Accra, in his home country of Ghana.
For the uninitiated:
He claims in ancient times Scotland was known as the Kingdom of Kubala and was ruled over by and inhabited by black sub-saharan Africans.
He claimed white Scots are all recent immigrants, devil demon coloniser crakkkas, who have no right to be on these isles and also that he is the rightful heir to the kingdom of Kubala being directly descended of the ancient black kangz of the north.
For 6 months he lived in a tent in the forests of Jedburgh in the Scottish borders and there he was joined by two followers who believed him, Jean Gasho, 43, aka "Queen Nandi" an African immigrant from Zimbabwe, and by Kaura Taylor, 21, aka "Lady Safi" an African-American immigrant from Texas.
Together the three of them had formed cult themed on New Age spirituality and nature worship and black supremacist beliefs.
Kaura in particular appears to have been brainwashed and left Texas to join the group without alerting her family or friends which lead to fears she had gone missing or was murdered and a manhunt to find her in her native Texas had taken place when she first disappeared.
In any case after 6 months surviving in tents and on foraging and money from TikTok the gig is over.
Kofi is deported, Kaura was arrested but has since been released, Jean was also arrested and appears to still be in police custody.
What do you think gang? Was it right to arrest them?
>>2790605When they get the bad car photo of you it's OVER
>>2790883There will be zero resistance to this
Doubly so, the right will be populated by cheerleaders who, once in power, will be eager to divvy up lucrative government contracts to these firms as they consolidate control across the Atlantic
>>2790916Why should there be resistance? What good does it do?
The 6 Palestine Action activists who raided an Elbit genocide machine factory are facing a retrial after already spending a year in prison.
If convicted they and 18 other PA supporters will be sentenced for terrorism in addition to the publicly available charges.
Notice how I said "publicly available charges"?
That's because the terrorism charges weren't supposed to be made public at all.
The terrorism charges were a little bonus supposed to be kept secret from the British public by the state and Labour Party. A nice little suprise for us to learn after the fact, if they're found guilty for the Elbit break in.
Zarah Sultana, whatever you may think of her these days, used parliamentary privilege to reveal this information about the secret terrorism charges.
And even then, it is still illegal right now for the British media to report on this matter, or for anyone to air the remarks she made in parliament.
You can however find her remarks if you search foreign media, I've heard some Irish news sites have the video of her revealing what I've just shared ITT.
So yeah, the jury will not be told that the PA members are also being sentenced for terrorism, only about breaking into the Elbit building. In effect they'll make a verdict on charges they're not even being informed of.
The defendants themselves have also been banned from explaining this in the courtroom, in further attempts to keep the juries in the dark. Absolutely mental.
I am getting jew fatigue
>>2790855the masculine urge to cruise with the boys
>>2791334>Critical support to the remnants of the British Empire against American-Argentinian imperialismDown with it
>>2791334Whatever hurts our state, hurts our military, goes against and weakens British imperalism and ability to wage neocolonialism is good.
Anyway, that is not the case here, the falklands quote, it is just a threat against Britain and other European nations to get them back in line relative to the war against Iran, and in line with the NATO policy the trump admin seeks.
I mean back during the Rubio speech at the Munich Security Conference, the European ruling class were applauding his pro imperialist unlimited genocide on the global south rhetoric. Europe agreed then, they will agree again now.
Plus we have been involved directly and indirectly in the war against Iran while our executive lie about not being involved. (See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_ySucsF6Yw)
>>2791334Argentinians STILL want these piece of shit islands they never had any presence in anyway? If so it's proof that third-world machismo is a mindset and you don't need to be brown for retarded stunt like this.
Hope Kveir nuke Milei.
>>2791334engloids should be forced to give up every island they occupy TBH. first based thing trumps ever done
>>2791351sorry did you still want to keep that imperial legacy? too bad welcome to the 21st century
Anyone who supports Britain having the falklands is not a serious anti imperialist. If you want Britain, our state to be weaker in terms of image and military should be against this. If you want an end to British imperialism and neocolonialism, you cannot surely support Britain having a TINY SETTLER COLONY for what fucking reason, a military base to project power in the south atlantic.
>>2791350True, they should all become "independant" (usa puppet states)
>>2791356Maybe places like the Chagos should belong to their own people, not military bases whored out to Americans and used ourselves right now against Iran.
>>2791356>usa puppet stateslike the britoids are now? they chug american cock more than anyone else
>>2791355it was literally uninhabited before europeans came. argentina is a settler colony too BTW. if they could have calmed their autism thatcher probably would have sold it to them back when nobody gave a shit about the falklands.
>>2791369>it was literally uninhabited before europeans camethis argument has never excused colonialism
>>2791371how exactly does it not?
>>2791353The indigenous people of the Falklands are the Falklanders. Critical support for the UK against Argentinazian kkkolonialism!
>>2791371The difference is the Falklands actually were uninhabited, not just depopulated by disease like North America and southern Africa. If the Falklanders are colonisers, who did they colonise?
>>2791374how exactly would it? you presented this argument first. explain how britoids exploiting the falklands for its strategic and economic booty is somehow not colonialism just because natives weren't involved? Are the spaniards suddenly not colonialists because they took empty bermuda? retard
>>2791380how exactly is 'exploiting' some uninhabited any different from a country exploiting a random part of the metropole?
>>2791385military bases? listening stations for intelligence agencies? ports and runways to resupply the imperialist coalition in a future war? tax evasion?use your imagination
>>2791392ok, and military aggression is bad but that doesn't really have anything to do with colonialism. why should argentina have it? so they can put listening stations there instead?
>>2791393colonialism has never been separated from violence. you are a liberal
>why should argentina have it? so they can put listening stations there instead?i dont care what exploited nations do. whats important is to take everything possible away from the imperialist gangsters raping the planet
>>2791393Probably because its like close to there coast lol, should Argentina get claim to the Orkney islands?
>should Argentina get claim to the Orkney islandsif they were there first then yeah I guess
>>2791395ok sure, colonialism is connected to imperialism but I mean the kind of 'exterminate/enslave the natives' that people usually mean when they say it.
look it's not a terrible argument to say that countries shouldn't own bits of the world that are far away from them. but it's hardly a consistent standard to only apply that to the UK.
>>2791403>but it's hardly a consistent standard to only apply that to the UK.would be a silly thing to do, america is much more egregious in this regard
>>2791439why are you giving exposure to this literal who then.
>>2791440I suppose i should shit up the thread with a hundred posts about transgender people or mass immigration instead, the way it usually is
>>2791439this is leftybritpol.
>>2791446You mean /TERF/?
>>2791442look a bunch of retired CPB/CPB-ML 70 year old geriatrics need somewhere to post while waiting out their facebook bans ok?
Zack Polanski is the uglyest man i've ever seen he look like early PS2 graphics
>>2791521he doesnt pass the physiognomy check,
which is why i cant support him
I do not want to support in any way the Empire that is the UK, but the indigenous people in the Falklands are the English and Scottish. Anti-colonialism needs to be applied equally in every situation or you end up with genocide, and so I cannot support Argentine claims on the Falklands.
>>2791439So close and yet so far. That’s nazbols for ya. Btw, I’m surprised that Academic Agent became a Stalin-stan despite being educated in Austrian economics. Criss-cross theory perhaps?
Fuck electoralism. Only trans-inclusive Juche can save Britain any more.
Falkland Islanders treat Maggie Thatcher like a god.
Very disgusting and bizarre to witness coming from a community that was raped and destroyed by her.
TERF "charity" For Women Scotland de-facto endorses the Tories
A) remember there are clowns here who'll tell you these middle class reactionaries are actually left wing
B) very funny that labour have bent over backwards to pander to them and only got backhanded compliments in return
In the abstract the falklanders should be British but in a greater-good sense Britain should lose them. Thatcher keeping the Falklands but giving away Hong Kong should be regarded as the rankest treachery in our history and instead she's feted by our should-be nationalists.
She is the greatest triumph of style over substance, the fullest vindication of politics as personality test over ideology or class interest: loved by cunts who, if they really believed their cunt ideas, would hate her.
>>2791751I think people need to come to terms that the fact that TERFs are heavily into neoliberalism and Zionism isn’t any coincidence, because let’s face it:
TERF-ism isn’t just the end result of embittered British middle & upper-class of the Gen X cohort turning into gammons because white female idpol is a sacred cow in Albion as well as resentment against younger leftists that makes them feel “left behind” due to their inability to question their priors what with being old and all that, or white middle class foids turning into such radlibs that they now are the far-right’s white women caucus, but also it’s also the end-product of a top-down agenda by plutocrats in Britain to push for Neo-Victorian prudishness and soft-Zionism under the skin suit of “women’s rights”. As shown by how radfems have been silent on the plight of Palestinian and Lebanese and Iranian women who suffer under the genocidal tyranny of Israel over west Asia, the overturning of Roe v Wade, the suffering of working-class women under the capitalist regime, and the killing of Renee Good at the hands of the ICE Gestapo, TERF-ism much like “radical feminism” are just different strands of the same messed up radlib ailment and idpol brainrot, and so it’s natural that they turn into reactionaries.
Not surprising as radfems emerged out of the rejection of both liberal and Marxist frameworks for women’s rights.
>>2791793It should also be noted that Glinner isn’t some fringe crackpot, considering how he is one of the leading TERF figures in the UK and Ireland as well as having connections with Alamo’s every TERF in the British isles.
>>2791793I have to defend bro liberalism here. Say what you will about market fetishists, they're not TERFs. If a trans person has money, the neoliberal answer is that the state should let them do whatever they want. Not a liberationist perspective by any means, but you can see how someone can come to it without an underlying personality disorder or lifetime of petty resentments.
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