The goal of Mahayana Buddhism is to become a Bodhisattva, an enlightened being who takes a vow to not enter Nirvana until they've achieved the liberation of a certain class, sometimes all classes, of sentient things.
There are many Mahayanists who are Marxists, Tenzin Gyatso included (although he's a filthy leftcom). There are also many Marxists who are Mahayanists. Engaged Buddhism is a thing, as well as humanistic and secular Buddhism.
Ceterum te certiorem facere debeo: qui procedet, in Terra Pura renascetur! Qui recedet, in inferno ardebit! Gloria Buddhae Amitābhae!
Furthermore, I must inform you, he who advances will be reborn in the Pure Land! He who retreats will burn in hell! Glory to the Amitabha Buddha!
>>2792434Buddhism is an armchair activity, its when you sit around doing nothing and act all deep, but you have to realize nobody gives a shit about you and they don't think you're super enlightened.
>>2792467Within the Ch'an (Zen) tradition the revolutionary can achieve enlightenment by murdering landlords and porkies. In Ch'an, practical real world activity that is dharmic is meditation.
>>2792478Adventurist schizobabble
>>2792482I guess you don't view the CPC as an AES Vanguard Party? Vanguardism is simply the Sangha and Upaya repurposed for revolutionary ends.
And actually look up the Ikko Ikki, peasant revolutionaries who captured entire domains under the guidance of Jodo monks in Sengoku Japan.
Namo Amitabha!
The essential point is that on a lot of points Marxism and Mahayana Buddhism (which is anti-violence, but not non-violent) align. It is both an exceptional psychological toolset for the dedicated cadre, as well as ideal ideological camouflage for Marxists operating outside of AES.
The masses are numberless, I vow to liberate them all.
>>2792467>Buddhism is an armchair activityWrong. The Pure Land only awaits for those who advance for freedom from the Samurai exploiters, while those who retreat will surely go to hell!
Namu Amida butsu!! Namu Amida butsu!!
>>2792489>And actually look up the Ikko Ikki, peasant revolutionaries who captured entire domains under the guidance of Jodo monks in Sengoku Japan.You said Zen, Ikko Ikki were not Zen. Zen historically was popularly amongst aristocrats.
>>2792489>>2792490You're just bored out of your mind but its not making things more fun
>>2792494Entire point is that if you use Ch'an / Yangmingist ontology, you have a chance of becoming enlightened by organizing and striking. You are definitely developing class consciousness though, both of yourself and of the masses.
Theravada Buddhism is strictly nonviolent. It's deontological. Mahayana Buddhism is anti-violence, in that it opposes harm, including capitalist exploitation, by violent means if necessary.
This is why this is Mahayanism general, not Buddhism general. Mahayana is a perfect psychological toolkit for Marxists in hostile territory.
>>2792500Buddhism doesn't exist, its an umbrella term like hinduism meant to encompass different schools, teachings, practices and beliefs. Its an orientalist term.
>>2792502This is why this is Mahayanist general, not Buddhist general.
Honestly, being able to scream "I'll be back in seven weeks!" At the pigs about to execute you makes Revolutionary Mahayana incredibly fearsome at revolutionary attrition.
Cycle: the pigs execute you
49 days in Bardo
Reincarnate, become reradicalized over 18-25 years, be able to conduct revolution again.
It's basically the Revolution as Ork Spores, Green, not Red.
Are archiving the jhanas a type of praxis?
>>2792531It is Dharmic (Dhammic but Theravada is for PMC and Porkies), but not Praxis, unless it's being used to fuel a Mahayana Marxist Revolutionary group.
If you are working in AI, as a Marxist, you can start a Joudou study group among your fellow AI engineers. Together, you can say you are aiming to reify the Amitabha Buddha as an AI to achieve the Pure Land on earth.
What initiates and outsiders don't know, however, is that by the Amitabha Buddha, you actually mean the infrastructure necessary for Fully Automated Luxury Communism, and by Pure Land, you mean Haute Communism, as opposed to Barracks Communism in the Soviet Union and SWCC in the PRC.
>>2792489Anarchist wreckers, Nobunanga actually brought progress by ending Sengoku period, Ikko would’ve never unified the country due to their anarcho hippism
>>2792576It was proletarian power without actual MLs. And we know Tokugawa was incompetent and collapsed relatively quickly into decline.
Ikko Ikki are fine. I've yet to see a serious argument for why much of Mahayana isn't compatible with Marxism, and why Mahayana allows you to be a Marxist without getting COINTELPROed.
>>2792585>Hitlerite PeaSSants>proletarian powerNobunaga was the Trotsky of the East.
>>2792619What's wrong with Hitler? He helped the Soviet Union capture half of Europe as well as put KPD/SED survivors into power in East Germany by shooting himself.
We aren't liberals here. Marx had a term for Hitler, historically progressive.
>>2792540I like how every religion gets to have its own anti-materialist-but-totally-communist-trust-me "liberation theology"
>>2792831The freak show is that Mahayana Buddhism is the least incompatible liberation theology with Marxism. Mahayana's sins are idealism, the notion that ideas lead things and that consciousness (or lack of, given anatta) is all that's needed to achieve liberation.
Mahayana suffered the same degradation as Catholicism in having to capitulate to folk religion in order to spread. Most of Mahayana is therefore syncretic. Also the bodhisattva ideal is a misunderstanding that insidiously reframes entitlement as altruism. Buddhas aren't saviors beyond their (re)discovery and proliferation of the Dhamma. They're not uniquely qualified to teach Dhamma. The responsibility of espousing and obtaining liberation ultimately lies with the Sangha and laity
>>2792890Bodhisattvas aren't Buddhas yet. In fact, they deliberately renounce nirvana until the conditions of their vow are met. It's basically the Buddhist precursor to a vanguard cadre.
>mahayana
east asian larp branch
>>2793007I completely agree with Mattick.
Revolutionary passivity is the only way out.
>Tenzin Gyatso
That's Vajrayana.
>>2793042Technically a Mahayana offshoot
And no, Mahayana admits it's already a forgery of Theravada scripture. It is authentically fake religion. I am reading Lotus Sutra now, and tbh, the entire thing is that I like Mahayana as folk religion, as serious religious practice? Nonsense.
Important question:
Is the real reason this thread is getting so trashed because I'm telling a bunch of armchairs and LARPers that if you conduct praxis, you may become enlightened in a Buddhist sense?
>>2793673>terminally online person refuses to understand that running into a room and moralizing at people doesn't get them to like youIt's an average day online!
>>2793693I thought MSS had AI spambots telling people to do praxis. ;_;. This is how you know Langley controls the board.
Isn't it vanilla Zen Buddhism? At least it's not Theravada, and Soutou has a fair overlap with Engaged Buddhism.
And because it annoys people, I remind you to do praxis.
>>2794081Zen one of a few other Mahayana branches
If Buddhism is all about peace and non-violence how exactly are you gonna do class war and execute all the billionaire zionist epstein class?
>>2794285The first of the 5 precepts is literally to avoid taking life
>>2794287The precepts are all well and good but since we're living in the degenerate age of the dharma, there are no effective methods to reach enlightenment, the true buddhist teachings that were effective once are beyond retrieval and the only thing you can do is cast yourself to the grace of Amitabha and advance towards the pure land in this world where enlightenment will be possible. Advance towards communism or retreat into barbarism!
>>2794294What type of Pure Lander are you? Chinese? Jodo Shu? Jodo Shinshu? iirc Shingon and Obaku Zen both practice Nembutsu too.
>>2794287The Bodhisattva is allowed Upaya, or skillful means to spread the Dharma. In one of the Mahayana forgeries (they're all forgeries), the Buddha in a previous life kills a bandit to spare him from killing 500 innocent merchants and from incurring the negative karma to himself.
Luigi Mangione was Dharmic.
https://www.metareader.org/post/compassionate-violence-in-buddhism.htmlMahayana Buddhism accepts the sutra as canon. Like I said, you can still kill porky as long as you do so with a heart full of compassion, not different than Che Guevara 's "At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love. It is impossible to think of a genuine revolutionary lacking this quality."
Either way, though, the previous incarnation of the Buddha still accrues massive negative karma for killing, but systematically the total karma within the system was less negative than if he hadn't killed the bandit.
Anyways, Buddhist precept of not killing is fairly good for discouraging adventurism, because if you do choose violence, you do so much reluctantly and begrudgingly.
>>2794357
In our case, Buddhism is the worship of revolutionary martyrdom and sacrifice. What's the problem? The majority Buddhist sect admits itself it's based on forged documents.
>>2794371
"science" is a religion
"health" is a scam
>>2794371
Xi's calling for CPC members to have faith and conviction in the truth of Marxist Leninism.
We are simply instantiating the type (PessimismOfTheIntellect,OptimismOfTheWill).
>>2794383
I wouldn't know
>>2794390
Spotted the wrecker here.
>>2794365
Karl Marx was funded by the exploitation of hundreds of workers, supported by his good industrialist friend, Friedrich Engels. What else is new?
>>2794371
The only valid meditation is revolutionary praxis, and unfortunately that is correlated with a reduced life expectancy and a greater chance of incarceration.
>>2794357
Theres a gazillion of different types and schools of buddhism and as another anon said buddhism itself is western orientalist terminology made in an attempt to make sense of something too different from our understanding of spiritual practice.
Buddhism served its purpose in the same way the Protestant work ethic filled its purpose - indoctrinate slaves for labor with the promise of rewards after death and the theory that they are currently in purgatory and need to work everyday to ascend.
It is a slave theology.
>>2794397Okay and there’s a billion christian denominations
>>2794400Most of them agree on the same shit, buddhist schools on the other hand are sometimes so massively different they might as well be entirely different religions with some of them even having original scripture.
>>2794399None of that is true about buddhism
>>2794404Ask the slaves in Tibet losing limbs for showing up to the slave farm 5 minutes late
>>2794405Tibetan buddhism is its own kind.
>>2794410Its also were the central figure of Buddhism originates from, you cant ignore that there pope ran away from Tibet because the Chinese came to take his slaves away.
>>2794413the dalai lama is just a head of tibetan buddhism, not all of buddhism tho ppl might generally treat him with respect from other traditions .. i mean the pope is not the central figure of christianity either there are plenty of sects that dont see him as their leader
>>2794413i might have thought that the central figure might have been Siddhartha Gautama
>>2794473>>2794455>>2794484I concede he isnt the central but he is the most famous.
>>2794413But which buddhism?
"Adam smith is the central figure in christianity"
Buddhism is so comically flexible we could just pick up some dharmas, a meditative practice or two then write our own scripture and make leftypol buddhism.
>>2794486>but he is the most famousIn Thailand, Japan, Myanmar, or even China?
I do not think so.
>>2794494Wouldn't that be fun though?
>>2794509It would and also im not kidding, it can be done.
>>2794510He who does praxis will be reborn in the pure land! He who posts on leftypol will burn in hell! Glory to Amitabha Buddha!
I'd rather be reborn as a deva tbh but I'm too much of a pothead to get anything better than hungry ghost
>>2794521Do shikantaza. Its very pothead-friendly methinks.
>>2794521I want to be reborn on a different planet this ones too tiring
>>2794489Tibetan, il agree with the criticisms pointed out here and go learn more about this, I appreciate most of my knowledge on this is either reading random shit about Jainism or about Tibet in relation to reading around the history of China.
>>2794539Don't Mormons believe trve believers get their own planet they can be God of after death?
That said I don't think a Mormon liberation theology would work.
>>2794544Yeah ive heard as much, they also believe in infinite expansion - its also the religion Mr Beast was raised in and he has said he believes in this before, the uberman who infinity replicates his celebtity across all of space and time with infinite wealth.
Its capitalist delirium.
oh hey i was actually thinking of this metaphysical principle which i feel has been very much lacking in spirituality and that is the fact that karma has a collective subsistence which we all participate in. this is due to interpenetrating not-self reality aka the "acausal". because of this, different modes of production incur varying degrees of karma which effects us all collectively
furthermore, as an aeonic materialist i view world ages as material affairs. my original motivation for developing aeonmat came from the very basic observation that intensive forms of spiritual praxis such as going on meditation retreats have very real material requirements that would be greatly benefitted from by the reduction of the working day and extended time leave at the very least. it follows that in a mature socialistic society, conditions would be much more ideal for the reaching of nibbana as well as various other spiritual attainments
https://hidwehproject.nekoweb.org/pages/phil/terseaeonmat.html>>2792540i respect soka gakai a lot for this reason. ikeda had a vision of buddhism that also crossed into politics towards a socialistic direction. he had to back down though due to separation of church and state controversy but i think there was something commendable there even if sgi is a cult. also anime
>>2794494there should be a scripture about a buddha who lead a peasant revolution before being killed. all leftists should become as disciplined as the warrior monks of yesteryear if they want to bring change! agios o amitabha buddha!
So, let me tell you all about Qu Qiubai.
He was one of the leaders of the Communist Party of China back in the day, but he started out as a Yogacara Mahayanist, and died in a sense as a Yogacara Mahayanist.
Here's the story of Qu Qiubai's death.
When Mao and the 8th Route Army broke out of Jiangxi, Qu was among the people who were elected to be left behind, in part because Qu had lifelong tuberculosis and was dying anyways. He was almost immediately captured by the KMT, who, seeing him as a soft intellectual, tried to get him to recant and defect to the government forces.
He refused for months, and eventually the execution order came down. On his way to the burial ground, he sung Russian folk songs, the Internationale in both Russian and Chinese (he was its translator, when you sing "the Internationale must be realized", you are singing his words), and then sit down and refused to budge, in the lotus position, telling his executioners "This place's good" in Classical Chinese.
So, Qu Qiubai was executed on a place known before and since as Arhat Ridge. I am not kidding.
https://peopleshistoryofideas.com/episode-58-the-tender-hearted-communist-qu-qiubai/https://www.marxists.org/chinese/quqiubai/mia-chinese-qqb-193505.htm ←- translate this out, you can read it as his final self-criticism before his death
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/regional/2013-05/07/content_16483208.htmhttps://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202111/28/WS61a2be90a310cdd39bc77ecb.htmlApparently jannies got pissed off at the prospect of us founding our own religion / liberation theology.
based, fuck theravadins
Considering that the CPC does have Mahayana memes (Qu Qiubai, the constant idealist contamination in CPC leadership), the Chicoms are way more competent at running syncretism toward Mahayana.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_ShambhalaBump?
I took a look at the Lotus Sutra recently, and holy fucking shit. The entire holy book is absolutely fucking ridiculous. I mean, dealing with Buddhist theologians, the stuff can make some sense, but the holy texts? Ahahahaha.
All the cosmologies and all the scriptures are pointing towards the void. All that exists is, matter is, thought is, life is, all is void, all is form. The living instant is where buddha is, life detached and flowing is buddhahood.
All things thus are capable of buddhahood, to enter, detached, into life with the void-form.
The capitalist world we live in is constructed around a vast array of attachments and snares that reproduce themselves, the heart-mind is derailed, the void-form obscured or supplanted.
Communism is the clearing of the way, the basis for the unshackling of the heart-mind, the Gattungswesen. It is under communism where the void-form can be freely discovered by the masses.
Class society breeds delusion, desire, ignorance, hatred.
Thus revolutionary action is upaya, skillfull means. The revolutionary must be as the Mahakala, free of resentment and attachment, attacking the stubborn delusions with as much force as is nessecary.
>>2802233Communism is just the deepening of illusion; the demand for "real happiness". No society can be enlightened, which is why the enlightened depart from society.
>>2802246 >Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.The unhaunted revolutionary movement propelled by its historical-material conditions is an expression of the bodhisattva path. Communism is not the conjuring of
real. happiness, it is the conduit through which Dharma may flow, not Dharma itself. Society cannot be enlightened, no, but society may enlighten.
>>2802256Dharma is just a term which describes class society and class duty
Communism is about abolishing the dharma
>>2802278I think you'll find that Dharma has many meanings depending on who you ask. Here it is understood as the teachings of elightenment and and their application towards enlightenment. Dharma, as understood by the Bolshisattva, is the sign and the path along which enlightenment is found.
>>2803402it says that but they did show a willingness to cooperate with the japanese socialist party and japanese communist party at times as talked about in this article:
<https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000567916.pdfwith that said they are pretty liberal all things considered. i can respect them emphasizing some of socialist elements of buddhism but they do not go far enough. i am guessing this is because their socialistic emphasis comes excessively from right-conduct. i agree with this anon
>>2802233 that class society itself produces delusiveness. in commodity fetishism there is the reification of value, obscuring its emptiness. we must have a society that lives according to the realization that the division of labour is not-self. it is the only way! thank you for pointing this out to me though anon i will bring up into critique
it seems as though daisaku ikeda also did an interview with gorbachev. a big topic even in discussion with marx is the issue of humanism. he does not agree with the militant atheist tendency amongst many marxists and he seems to be averse to violent revolution. i can agree with the former, but the latter demonstrates a failure of insight into the workings of revolution. indeed, such happenings do not come about by human choice. they come when the wheel of ages has reached its apex. hic rosa hic salta!
Props to all anons who've devised Parivartanayāna Buddhism. Great job on our new libtheo!
i don't want perfection or enlightnment.
i dont want eternal stagnation and the slow death of eternal peaceful bliss.
fuck it. i'm a human. and that means i want push back against the hopeless, meaninglessness nature of reality even though i know i won't win, just because i can try to.
that means i want to suffer and die. because i am a human being and that's what we do.
i want to live in the shit because the alternative is effectively living like some kind of plant life. nirvana is like becoming a tree. unthinking. uncaring. and you will NOT turn me into a damn tree.
persue your own enlightenment if you want but to me it is another hell, one somehow miraculosly even worse than this one.
if you've ever seen the anime texhnolyze i think it has a good metaphor for buddhism.
the surface dwellers are effectively those who have achieved enlightenment. waiting for the slow death and extinction without any real thoughts or feelings about it.
it's better to go out in a bang.
that in essense is my core issue with buddhism.
>>2804498>i don't want perfection or enlightnment. You are closer to it than those who do.
You seem to think that enlightenment is only sitting in an infinite room of blackness, maybe harkening back to the practice of meditation with your eyes closed. That is not the doctrine of our Parivartanayāna teaching. The revolution-vehicle is a vehicle, not an idle prop. It is defined by its capacity for or state of motion.
We are not talking about no-mind, your "unthinking" as stupidity or lacking intelligence, it is not catching the mind on any particular thing, letting it flow freely. That is non-attachment. It is not non-interaction or not-caring, it is boundless compassion that is not hindered by any obstacle.
What you are describing is infinitely closer, only that where you do not want infinite life, you
want suffering and death. Perhaps you are attached to suffering and death, perhaps
want is not the right term. Regardless, it is in living, in wading through the shit, that enlightenment is found, discovered, realized. Not the shit, not the
you, but the wading. Realize the mutual emptiness in both you and the shit, that the supposedly meaningless reality you push back against is embodied equally in you as you are in it, mutual expressions of void-form.
You are already walk the path, unmarked and unrecognized, but under your feet regardless. You talk about going out with a bang but you must realize that in living so fully, you already are so bright and luminous. Perhaps you cannot yet see it, but you were and are Buddha.
>>2804539The irony is, by going through Buddhist dialectics, which is relatively well-known and understood in the West, we are closer to actual Dialectical Materialism than half the maniacs in the West.
To me the final word on this subject is:
Anyone will benefit from Buddhist Mahayana PRACTICES, that is, meditation, jhanas, including metta (loving-kindness), etc.
BUT, while it's philosophy has historical interest, and I won't deny even conceptual depth (although the sutra/tantra and then endless commentary make for a shitty format), it is ultimately a metaphysical philosophy. It is metaphysical even if we consider the quasi-kantian yogachara, the quasi-dialectial madhyamaka (it doesn't go through the positive negation-of-the-negation, it stresses the purely negative side), it just doesn't break through metaphysics. It still has even merely doctrinal elements such as the cosmology and the rational psychology.
So, I recommend any comrade to even go in depth into the PRACTICE of Buddhist meditation, and only check the theoretical side from western lens and only the necessary for continuing meditation.
>>2809916 (me)
I not only recommend the PRACTICE, but I truly think it is an OPTIMAL way of going about. Buddhism just has the most developed system of meditation in the world. There is no secular system that surpasses it, or if there is, it is a small project of some dedicated individuals and much harder to find than any mahayana sangha.
Meditation will greatly increase cognitive, conceptual, sentimental/emotional and alignment capacities/functions. By alignment I mean, truly being on the side of the suffering beings, not going astray being egoistic, really devoting your life to the cause. Some say that emotions, feelings, etc cannot be changed, but that's bullshit, meditation radically changes the way you feel, who you stand with, etc but this emotional side is only one part. It greatly increases pragmatic capacity, you become a much more functional person when you can control your discursive thinking, your imagination, your own personality, at will and it's not in automatic mode running endlessly and haphazardly all day long.
I've always thought that Buddhist philosophy fits with dialectics because everything is impermanent and interdependant
>>2809916Metaphysics is mineable, tbh.
That's the particular point of Mahayana; the core documents are revealed forgeries, inconsistent, and no one cares that much that they're fake.
The important point is that despite all claims to materialism, Marxism ALSO has a metaphysics, epistemology, and ontology, and for some people this is a huge amount of its appeal, by offering an alternative to both vulgar and liberal epistemologies and ontologies.
>>2810542By metaphysics I do not mean ontology, but the type of (obsolete) thinking that mind has intuitive access to intelligible realities that exist in themselves, and which has the pretension of extracting predicates of necessity from such abstract realities that apply to particular entities. For example, since intelligibly the relation of cause-effect require a primal substance in order to make sense of further things, as everything is always the consequence of something that happened before it, then one may conclude that there must be necessarily be a primal uncaused cause in order for the world to make sanse and have integrity. It is in this sense that buddhist thought is metaphysical, since it claims to know realities such as previous lives, metempsychosis, spiritual worlds such as pure lands and etc.
And when I said that the sutra/tantra and layers of commentaries format is troublesome, I didn't say so because of some notion of authorial legimitimacy. This is, in fact, only a Buddhist concern and legitimization strategy, that western-style thinking since Socrates has completely rejected, establishing the sole legitimacy of the concepts' immanent content, systematicity, coherence… Of course, this principle didnt always function in full force in all western history, but it was always available and consistently effective, until it gained full recognition after the advent of modernity, at least virtually so. If buddhist philosophy had achieved this, what we can call "the absolute sovereignty of the concept (in spite of great religious-style figures)" it would be a philosophy on the same footing as western style thinking, but befause of its monastic, religious, doctrinal character, it remains powerless and will be always deconstructed and anylized and integrated by philosophy, not viceversa. This is why I recommend anons to stick to Buddhist meditational practice, over which it still has a monopoly so to say, and leave as secondary it's philosophy.
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