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>>2767484The givas was empty or too short edition
Evidence of the influence and origin of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine
https://archive.ph/44B9Qhttps://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323637https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323658https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323663https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323688https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323729https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323733https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323731https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323735https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323740https://azovlobby.substack.com/https://banderalobby.substack.com/—————————————————–
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Inter-imperialist war
I feel like
>Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the proles!?
and
>Ukraine collapse status? They’re still bussing proles to the front without slowing down
are two seriously opposing opinions, but you never see anons clashing over them.
>>2796383Cause they're not opposing opinions. They're posted by Ukrainians and Russian libs as cheap gotchas.
How much time until Russia scrapes the barrel and ships the resident chauvinists of this thread to the front?
>>2796414I should have kept a tally of times I've had harm wished against me ITT lmao
Over a million people have been maimed and killed for over a decade now. Has it led to any significant breakthrough for the global left, in any way, shape, or form? No, instead we have leftist infighting over which bourgeois nationalism is morally correct.
I don’t care about the outcome of this conflict. I want it to end so that we can move on to other stuff. There is nothing left for us here.
>>2796554This was how I felt when the war broke out, its still how I feel. All we can really do is watch and organize.
>>2796554Actually I think the correct take 10 years ago was "Fuck NATO" and that's only become more correct since. There's therefore no infighting, there's libs trying to reorient the left away from "Fuck NATO" via whataboutism with Russia's invasion of a NATO proxy.
>>2796554I called Putin and told him to wrap it up, dw
What has this conflict achieved again?
>>2796569The start of a rift between the US and EU, which may be fixed after this conflict but it also may not.
>>2796569>demilitarized Ukraine and NATO>showed how weak NATO, US and EU are>strengthened Russia's (and China's) standing on the global stage>exposed Nazis in EU government for what they are<to come: collective nuclear liberal seething when Ukraine surrendershonestly, it was worth it just for the last thing
You know what? I'm out. You leftypol jannies have to understand that if you keep talking amongst yourselves, you won't get any new members. At this point you might as well shut down /leftypol/ and just talk on Matrix. This website has become a big LARP.
>>2796383I really wish I ever saw a single good-faith pro-ukrainian person who isn't a lazy fuck allergic to looking into sources and just saying shit they already think without any knowledge whatsoever of the specific situation. It's all bad faith and built on 300 years of angloids just saying shit and never ever taking the topic of Russia with any seriousness or rigor. Angloid culture is just incapable of taking anyone who isn't in the process of crushing their collective balls seriously, it seems. That's why they're interested in Chinese culture and thought all of a sudden.
If you have any amount of empathy for the people of Ukraine, sources unanimously say that they experienced a hostile takeover by what was a radical minority up until 2014 that immediately dragged the country into war and didn't hesitate to kill millions of people when they were told to knock it off. Zelensky in particular was elected because Ukrainians already had enough of this shit by the time SMO started. Ukrainian people didn't have a party of the Bolshevik type and were incapable of resisting in a structured manner.
This is a tragedy and these people choose to defend the guys who did it to Ukraine on the CIA's behalf. Just the fact that the CIA is behind this should already make you at least 70% sure they are in the wrong if you are a serious person. Even left-leaning liberals all know about the CIA by now. But pro-Ukraine people aren't interested in being serious because they are unambiguously on the side of capital in class war. You see it so clearly in their whining and/or gloating about fucking mcdonalds of all things.
>>2796575Im not a jannie doe
>>2796558This is a land grab by a bourgeois state against another bourgeois state, it doesn't matter how you call it, that's what has been happening this whole time at the end of the day.
>>2796564NATO doesn't have a monopoly on bourgeois rule, bourgeois rule would continue in euro-atlantic countries without NATO, and Russia itself is a bourgeois state, if NATO were to be gone, it would pursue the same bourgeois politics as it currently does.
>>2796558
We'll repeat it as long as it takes for you to stop being retarded
>>2796588Absolutely. Russia invading Ukraine is treated as a golden opportunity by western libs to reorient NATO as merely a competing power with Russia, rather than the hegemonic imperialist bloc it is, because it's not NATO states doing the invading for a change.
Obviously that basic mission statement is flawed even at a high level, because NATO is an expanding bloc of 32 militaries + Ukraine while Russia is a single country with some diplomatic well-wishers and NATO already inserted itself into Ukraine in 2014 via an orchestrated coup, not materially different to an invasion but just operationally cleaner.
It therefore pays to be as ignorant as possible about the details, because any take that goes deeper than "Ukraine collapse status?" hits issues in logic depressingly quickly for supposed leftists.
Thanks thread baker.
>>2796570>Russia is winning slowlyIt definitely is, yes.
Btw, did you know you can take Russian citizenship if you become a volunteer to the Russian army? That way you can earn a lot of money, help socialism, smash the Ukrainian Reich. Russia won't make you go to an assault. You'll be working somewhere in Luhansk near the Luhansk nuclear power plant. Guard work, you know.
>>2796687You have to already be fluent in Russian which makes sense for military service.
No such requirement for volunteering in the Ukrainian military though, which makes sense for their military service.
>>2796562
Of course I can, a party is a collective of individuals.
>>2796554I'm okay with however many ukros getting killed if it means the liberation of Novorussia is complete.
>>2796690>You have to already be fluent in Russian which makes sense for military service. No one does. Well, maybe some basic stuff like hello and bye at maximum. It's worth it. You'll get the real chance to bash the fash if you volunteer.
>>2796742There are multiple people on this board who have tried to volunteer but were rejected due to insufficient knowledge of Russian.
Why Cucktin wants a truce for Victory Day? Ukronazis drones falling on Moscow or killing randoms during that day would be the best propaganda since the Kursk offensive and the perfect call to make the Muscovite middle class and bougies join the war.
Ireland to end state-provided housing for Ukrainians>An estimated 125,000 Ukrainians have received temporary protection in Ireland since the escalation of the Ukraine conflict in February 2022. According to local media reports, Dublin has spent more than €438 million ($516 million) on housing support for roughly half of them.<The government sealed the scheme to cut housing benefits for Ukrainians who arrived in Ireland before March 2024 on Monday. The move is set to affect some 16,000 Ukrainian migrants living in state-provided accommodation, save for those unable to live on their own and “highly vulnerable.” >Asked on Tuesday what exactly constitutes the latter category, Prime Minister Micheal Martin admitted that the government was still fleshing it out, adding that it would likely include “women and children and people with disabilities and so forth, elderly or frail people who need support.” <Last week, Irish Migration Minister Colm Brophy said the government has been considering offering payouts to Ukrainians to encourage them to leave and repatriate. The minister argued that Dublin had offered unique benefits to Ukrainians, pointing out that no other EU states had such programs. >An estimated 4.35 million Ukrainians are registered for temporary protection across the bloc. In recent months, numerous EU states, including the Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Poland, and Hungary, have moved to curb social programs for Ukrainian migrants.https://swentr.site/news/639282-ireland-ukrainians-state-housing/Doesn't deporting men to a warzone break some kind of convention?
>>2796596interesting that you used the faces of the people that directed and conspired against ukraine and designed its doom.
it needs françois hollande's face, though.
>>2796827Lol what the retards
Russia winning so much they ran out of vehicles for victory parade, at least the soviet aura farming will be eco friendly this year
>>2796554>we have leftist infighting well it is because of takes like:
>over which bourgeois nationalism is morally correct.<inter-imperialist conflictAlso the attitude of this post reminds me of people complaining about the Israel-Gaza war because it is apperently two bourgeois states killing each other and it is dividing the left.
>>2797166How is fighting easy wars that don’t require tanks working out for the US?
>>2797414Doing good thing for the wrong reasons.
>>2797395Pretty well actually because resource extraction porky obviously benefits from raising the price of oil and LNG. That's why they're comfortable fighting this idiotic tug of war with the Iranians
>>2797434
>straw mans and projection mostly not worth responding to
If the Ukraine president then was a Russian puppet why didn't Russia just order him not to join the American aggression that Russia opposed?
>>2797435Only in the short-term and for customers who can still afford the increases, in the long-term the instability of fossil fuel prices only increases demand for alternative energy sources.
The US's oil wars are both about price control and stability. Removing oil-rich states who control their own prices and sovereignty over their resources and therefore has the ability to either undercut US Big Oil, or what we're seeing currently in triggering a market shock that destabilises a usually very safe commodity.
So far the US has only been successful in securing foreign oil fields and selling the very legally acquired oil for the "correct" prices, but they've completely failed to eliminate instability in the region and in fact have only exacerbated it.
The State Duma has proposed requiring companies to take their own measures to protect against UAVsMironov believes that companies should not merely have the right to protect their facilities, but rather the obligation to do so.
“The head of state has instructed us to strengthen security for those involved in the electoral process. For the Ministry of Defense, this will be an absolute priority. In this regard, the leadership of energy companies and other systemically important enterprises must ensure the reliable protection of their facilities. I urge the government to issue them direct instructions and promptly adopt the necessary subordinate legislation. Companies must not merely have the right to protection, but the obligation. All of this should have been done yesterday, but it is even more important to avoid red tape and lies today in order to hold the elections and minimize the economic and environmental damage from enemy attacks,” the deputy concluded.
https://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2026/04/29/28368235.shtml >>2797448Yeah, it's a pump and dump that may come at the expense of at least partially deteriorating the standing of the US in the MENA (and causing oil crises in Africa, SEA, as well as possibly some LatAm countries)
>>2797423They haven't done anything yet. Prepare for them to cuck out the moment Pissrael they didn't know what they were doing (all while strangling a child on the side)
>>2797457
Russia opposed the invasion of Iraq and threatened to veto it at the UN, which is why it didn't come up for a vote. So officially opposing it and denying the US legal legitimacy is fine, but telling your puppet to not join it is… well, that's just a bridge too far. And you believe this, or pretend to.
>>2797434
>genocide of Ukrainian proles
They're being violently conscripted against their will by NATO via a proxy government to fight Russia into "overextension", are you really claiming that Russia is the genocidal factor here?
>>2797461>muh words of condemnation lol
>>2797462The inter-imperialist war you support is the genocidal factor of proles on both sides
>>2797464>of proles on both sidesThat wasn't what was said, it was framed that this conflict is a genocide of Ukrainian proles.
>The inter-imperialist war you support I support the end of NATO expansionism, prior to 2022 because it was a destabilising factor in Europe, post-2022 because we've seen to what lengths NATO will go to ensure the expansion continues.
>>2797434
>Kuchma
>Russian puppet
???
>>2797423Israel already turned away the Russian ship, wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing was kayfabe for Israel to do a little slavaukraini for PR points
>>2797472NATO expansionism and its theories on over-extending Russia into collapse to free up centuries worth of oil, gas and uranium for the global hegemon (as well as resisting that) isn’t a petty narrative. If fact if NATO are successful then destabilisation of the bourgeois order is precisely what won’t happen.
It should therefore be clear that there is only one imperialist in this conflict and it was the same imperialist in the Iraq conflict.
>>2797466Indeed but even if we accept their definition of genocide, it’s still bizarre to think fighting to the last Ukrainian is Russia’s choice.
>>2797479
Actually it’s ironic pick, lmao
>>2797483or maybe such a word is nonsense
russia is losing…
>>2797483>quoting radlib era young M&E, before their systematic analysis of capitalismAs expected from a WAP Kautskyist pseud
>>2797558>nothing from this has really been that magnificentIt’s only really people who either don’t understand or want to downplay the power the US/NATO has in the post-Cold War world that were expecting something “magnificent” out of Russia. Like 90% of cucktin posts are just reminding the thread that the US can and does do whatever it wants regardless of international law, while ignoring that the US can’t suffer consequences like Russia (or indeed any non-US ally) can.
Nevertheless, from that perspective, Russia has actually done something magnificent in crossing the red line that is foundational for NATO in invading westward to directly thwart their expansion, then surviving NATO’s various attempts at recovering the situation and forcing Russia back over the Ukrainian border.
NAFOids are no doubt very pleased to see FOV drone footage against Russian soldiers and strikes within Russia itself, but they’re lying to themselves when claiming this has worked out as NATO top brass (and by extension, themselves) had hoped.
Ukrainian press gang attacked with assault rifle>Two officers in Rivne Region were wounded in the latest violent incident as Kiev’s mobilization drive turns increasingly bloody<According to police reports, the attack took place on Wednesday near the village of Verba when a group of TCC members, together with a police officer, spotted the man walking with his bicycle and decided to check his papers. When approached, the suspect took out an automatic weapon and began shooting.https://swentr.site/russia/639296-ukraine-conscription-officers-attacked/Don’t these people know that Russia lost? Haven’t they seen the attacks on Russian oil facilities? They know how to answer the question “Ukraine collapse status?”
Serious question: can you actually join the Russian armed forces as a foreign conscript by just learning Russian?
>>2796383Proletarian nazis are still nazis.
These people are just like the Trotskyites that condemned the USSR for killing German invaders in WWII.
>>2797712Trotsky never condemned that.
Russian ML is so funny because they ascribe everything bad to Trotsky and Khrushchev but if you read what Trotsky and Khrushchev actually say they're among the most staunch communists to have ever been produced by the Bolshevik system.
>>2797718trotskyites are very different beasts from Trotsky himself
>>2797718>they ascribe everything bad to Trotsky and Khrushchev<but if you read what Trotsky and Khrushchev actually say they're among the most staunch communists>what Trotsky and Khrushchev sayLol, lmao
>>2797723Where are those trotkyists who defended the nazis during ww2? AFAIK the accusation of hitlerotrotskyist came from people mad at Trotsky hypothetically supporting a fascist dictatorship against the west which is the whole zigger thing today
>>2797730Trots in China sided with Japanese occupation, for one. Then there is hilariously horrible Trotsky's own writing that Nazi soldiers will first come and destroy degenerate Stalin's bureaucratic dictatorship, and then will see what kind of horrible things they did to local civilians and overthrow Hitler next.
>>2797729picrelated
>>2797735Trotsky critically supported the USSR in WW2 knowing it was ruled by a bureaucracy, this is because he was a social chauvinist. He didn't even dare to stop calling the USSR a dotp (hence the 'degenerated' part).
>>2797743"Degenerated" part is because he was a Soviet bureaucrat himself and couldn't just suddenly turn around and say that USSR wasn't actually a DOTP after calling it so in all the speeches and writings. "Degenerated" means DOTP was "occupied" by le evil Stalin after he exiled Trotsly, lol
>>2797739Wrong. Trotskyism is opportunism, meaning cuckoldry to capitalists ala Khruschev or European socdems. Lowkey rehabilitation of trots started under Khruschev when trots convicted by Stalin for sabotage, conspiracy, murders, terrorism etc etc were pardoned and were restored to previous government positions - especially the case in agrarian sphere where Lysenkoist cadre got decimated and replaced with opportunists, who replaced intensive development with extensive one, imported corn, stopped planting forests and undid Stlain's transformation of nature plan, i.e. did everything opposite of what Lysenko/Stalin stood for in agrarian sphere. Literally a childish tantrum of freezing off own ears to spite your mum. That's what Stalin had to deal with in regards to Trotsky, who also did similar kind of spiteful actions
>muh japan
Ziggers will litteraly suck Putin's limp cock while trashing the leader of the red army for supposedly having been an agent of a country at war with america
>>2797769Moscow Trials proved without shred of a doubt that Trots were, in fact, conspiring with Nazis. They were offering up Ukraine, Belarus and Baltics, as well as Baku oil, for borrowing German armies for overthrowing Stalin.
>>2797786Because it's an objectively false statement.
>>2797834>The TCC emphasised that the vast majority of TCC"CIA investigated itself and found itself not guilty" type shit
>>2797779>Moscow TrialsJust because Stalin was retarded enough to believe disinfo made by Hitler (Goebbels admitted it) painting his officials as spies in the 1930s, to force a purge and to successfully soften up the USSR for the imminent invasion, doesn't mean that you also have to fall for it in 2026. The sad truth about Stalin is that in the field of counterintelligence he was a complete mediocrity who fell for it every time his enemies told him his allies were spies. This obviously runs counter to the Russian ML narrative of Stalin being this omniponent deity who got everything right which is why it's far too hard to accept for the average communist. But it's the truth. He even killed loyal communists after WW2 because the Nazi agents absorbed by America told them this weakness and the new CIA under Dulles repeated the trick again and permanently fucked up the Warsaw Pact states by eliminating another generation of revolutionaries by planting fake evidence accusing them of being traitors.
>>2797979>to force a purge and to successfully soften up the USSRActual memoirs of Goebbels and Hitler actually say that purge had successfully rooted out potential traitors and incompetents. Trots really love their headcanon where purges were dumb, lmao
>The sad truth about Stalin is that in the field of counterintelligence he was a complete mediocrityWhich is why Germans were finding entie cities in USSR which weren't on German maps. Again, according to memoirs of germans themselves
>muh Moscow Trials were forced confessionsThat's not how open courts work, buddy. The very fact that defendants could have spilled the beens in the open - with foreign journalists sitting there and watching the trials live - proves that there weren't any forced confessions, because it's realistically impossible to orchestrate such an event. Impossible.
The only thing left for you to cling to is to muddy the waters and claim that nobody actually knows anything, and that trials weren't open, and that germans were lying in memoirs while your hearsay about what Hitler said via epigraphs written by other people, lol, was totally truth. Face it, you don't know shit
>>2797786Trotsky is more Stalinist than Stalin
MLs just like to argue with voices in their heads
Who would win, Team of Russian leaders whose name ends in "-in" vs those ending with "-ev".
Le interimperialist war though.
>>2798309Neither, they are both revisionists.
>>2798309A team with "-li" and "-ov"
>>2798309>Lenin: lifted weights, biked long distances regularly, definitely strong but with no actual combat experience>Stalin: short king with one useless arm, probably not much good in a fight>Yeltsin: the biggest guy of them all, can enhance abilities with alcohol>Putin: the only one to know martial artsvs.
>Khruschev: fully mediocre>Brezhnev: nothing special but has military experience at least>Gorbachev: fat and retarded>Medvedev: nothing special I thinkYeah i think team -in takes this one
>>2798597Medvedev definitely talks the talk though, he might be able to use “Post-Presidential Growl” to reduce the -in team’s Attack stat.
Outhouse outside of Kramatorsk status?
>>2798673
>Ukraine would stop droning oil facilities just because Russia retreated
I feel like people would claim that’s cucked of them, too much like good will.
>>2798554Ukraine is 2 weeks away from developing nukes.
>>2798998
Ahhh Tsar Bomba was in the 60s?
>>2798998
There were 30 years between those two events
Tbh Russia should not have invaded. We're 4+ years into a meatgrinder that is still showing zero signs of ending soon. It was a mistake and Putin should have just copied China's plan of sitting quietly waiting for Amerikkka to die while focusing on internal development and anti-poverty intiatives. I don't think the loss of Venezuela, Syria, and possibly Iran and Cuba later is worth the trade of taking some destroyed blown up ruins in Donbas. Russia's overall security situation has significantly weakened over the course of this war. What I don't understand is that the upper ranks of the military and intelligence services should understand this yet they have made no moves to push for a negotiated ceasefire and hasty exit. There's no way Putin has that much authority especially since most of the wealthy also despise the war so all important sections of the elites should already be united in wanting an end to this. Is it just fear over facing the aftermath and thinking that their society will revolt if there isn't some tangible gain that can be sold as a victory?
>>2799136>I don't think the loss of Venezuela, Syria, and possibly Iran and CubaThis didn’t happen because of Ukraine
>>2799136A fight with Ukraine was inevitable. It was made inevitable by the West and wasn't just a whim of Putin, and the "upper ranks" understand this. Their only mistake was miscalculating the political situation in eastern ukraine and underestimating the lengths the west would go to upend the global economic system and suicide ukraine to destroy russia.
And regime changes didn't start in 2022. Ukraine was part of an ongoing regional project to regime change everyone friendly or not hostile to Russia. It was a process of encirclement, isolation and strangulation with the end goal of regime change in Russia itself. That situation had been deteriorating for decades and Russians fight because they know that will only continue and accelerate if they stop.
Iran hasn't fallen and it won't, but it is the last of "seven countries" in west Asia the US set out to regime change since 2001. This didn't start because of 2022. "Do nothing and win" was never an option for Russia. It wasn't really an option for China either. It only becomes one if Russia and Iran deplete the USA so much that war with China becomes impossible. In that case their do nothing strategy only worked because their allies didn't follow it.
I also think your geo-analysis is just wrong. US-NATO are in a worse position than they've ever been. They're depleted and losing their grip. The global rampage we're seeing from them is desperation, not strength. This is certainly a dangerous situation for everyone, but it's not because Russia is losing, quite the opposite really.
>>2799136The SMO was a revolutionary moment and has forced Russia to re-embrace socialist economy as painful as it has been to accept that lesson.
>>2798677Lel
>>2799283Please explain how the Maidan would eventually have resulted in regime change in Russia (which didn't happen for those 8 years preceding 2022) and how Iran (major energy exporter, and last non western aligned state in the middle east) is comparable to Ukraine. Because I'm not seeing it.
People here also keep forgetting they kept saying for months they weren't going to invade. No "end the nazi symbolism and Russian language bans or we'll bomb you".
I agree on US-NATO, but only because of the growing Atlantic split.
>The global rampage we're seeing from them is desperation, not strength.Could've said this 25 years ago. "Our enemies are lashing out because they're weak" is copium
>>2799560>Please explain how the Maidan would eventually have resulted in regime change in Russia Ukraine literally attempted their invasion of Russia a couple years ago, thank god for the SMO, if Russia hadn't demilitarized them to a great extent they might have pushed deeper into Kursk Oblast.
>>2799560Ukraine and NATO were definitely gearing up for an invasion of Donbass to end the territorial dispute that blocked NATO membership.
I suspect that both leaving the Russian population to their fate and seeing Ukraine (that by far has the most familial connections with Russia) becoming NATO’s largest and most aggressive European military would have been considered a far larger failure than anything we’ve seen in the SMO.
Also the initial disbelief that Russia would invade Ukraine was due to NATO claims it was imminent and thus why loads of support needed to be handed over to the Ukrainian military and commit to NATO membership regardless of Russia’s wishes.
It was all very hostile towards Russia despite little being observably done on the Russian-side to prepare for an invasion, therefore appearing like baseless accusations to justify whatever NATO had cooking up, including the possibility of direct participation in Donbass.
>>2799560>explain how the Maidan would eventually have resulted in regime change in Russiafirst, a goal of Maidan was to spread Maidan, to create color revolution in Russia and every place that was friendly with Russia (Belarus, Khazakstan, Georgia, etc) and turn all regional governments against Russia, while also funding and fomenting Maidan inside Russia. The end goal is to Ukrainize the entire region until Russia is completely surrounded by enemies and essentially sealed off at its border.
At the same time they would keep the war going in Ukraine and prevent settlement (Minsk/UNSC 2202). Due to Ukraine's rejection of that and its determination to resolve the issue by force, Russia had the choice to either fight Ukraine or give up on Minsk and let Ukraine take Donbas. If the latter, an emboldened and victorious Kiev would just reapply the same strategy to Crimea and give Russia the same choice there. If Russia again chooses the latter, it loses Crimea and it will be swiftly kicked out of the black sea.
All of these concessions would be discrediting to the RF government, and combined with the hostile regional environment (universal Maidan) and billions of dollars and espionage being pumped into "pro-democracy activism" inside Russia from all of these places, Maidan would eventually remove a discredited government in Russia.
Ultimately Russia was given the same choice that every independent state that attempts to keep its sovereignty is given by the empire: let them control your economic and foreign policy, or fight them. And eventually Russia chose to fight them.
>and how Iran (major energy exporter, and last non western aligned state in the middle east) is comparable to UkraineI'm not sure where I was comparing Ukraine and Iran. It would become comparable to Ukraine if the current war succeeds in regime change and the US imposes a client regime. Then the new Iran could be used to help spread Maidan to Lebanon (Hez) and Yemen and maybe get Iraq and Oman back into line, until everwhere in the region was subordinated to the empire. But they're currently fighting this outcome, just like Russia.
>>2799580you're wrong on both accounts
- nothing happening in ukraine could affect russo-georgian relations as much as 2008 invasion did
i assure you russians are perfectly capable and willing of ruining whatever relations they've got left in former ussr
as for crimea and black sea i don't see any reason why russia ought to be in the region in the first place
- russian government is a reflection of the collective psyche of the russians, removing it would be pointless as any other one consisting of russians will turn out the same which is obvious to everyone (except russians apparently)
>>2799608>nothing happening in ukraine could affect russo-georgian relations as much as 2008 invasion did
- Georgia-Russia relations are better today than in 2008.
>i assure you
- assurances from racists aren't compelling
>as for crimea and black sea i don't see any reason why russia ought to be in the region in the first place
- Maybe you're not bright or poorly informed. Russia is in the region because they've been there for hundreds of years and had an agreement with the government of Ukraine. Then a group of criminals illegally seized control of Ukraine's government in 2014 and nullified the votes of people in Crimea and Donbas and elsewhere, and ethnically-profiled them as internal enemies to be marginalized, which started a civil war and led to Crimea leaving Ukraine and joining Russia, and UNSC 2202 to settle the conflict in Donbas. For the latter Russia was there to secure the interests of DPR/LPR in that settlement.
- In short, Russia is in Crimea because it's Russia, and Russia was in Donbas to protect it's rights under UNSC 2202 and is now there because it's Russia.
>russian government is a reflection of the collective psyche of the russians, removing it would be pointless as any other one consisting of russians will turn out the same which is obvious to everyone (except russians apparently)
sounds like some kind of voodoo. you can change governments and political policies, the empire does it all the time. this is obvious to everyone except maybe race essentialists (eg, nazis).
>>2799618when left to it's own devices everything returns to it's natural state which in terms of russia is oriental despotism
the whole >evil west is trying to brainwash us into democracy narrative is pure paranoia, you just can't win against nature which is best exemplified by the 20 years americans lost nannying afghanis
russia is russia - a country in central volga basin - tver to perm to samara and nowhere else
even if the country temporarily flooded over sooner or later it will return to where it belongs
With so much words words words and zero news it can only mean Russia is bogged down again or massively getting bitchslapped somewhere.
What happened? Oil refineries going boom? Some city that was about to be taken 3 years ago was swept by ukros? Cucktin threw another red line?
>>2799629It’s probably slow because..
US warns key Ukraine backers of delays in weapons deliveries – FT>Notices were reportedly sent to the UK, Poland, Lithuania, and Estonia as the Iran war drained stockpiles<The US has warned several European countries, including the UK, Poland, Lithuania, and Estonia, to expect delays in deliveries of American-made weapons because the war with Iran has depleted stockpiles, the Financial Times reported late on Friday, citing people familiar with the matter.https://swentr.site/news/639350-trump-us-iran-weapons-delayed/I think someone ITT predicted this, but I can’t remember who? Any of the thread historians want to get in here and jog my memory?
As for Ukrainian strikes on Russian oil infrastructure, Kiev blew its wad last year claiming Russia’s economy would have collapsed by now.
Also seeing reports online that Russia is now striking civilian fuelling stations, allegedly because the Ukrainian military has been spotted filling up military vehicles in them, but probably just as likely to be a “removing of the gloves” that gets a fist shake and a yelp about war crimes before being memory holed like all other damage done to Ukraine thus far.
According to legendary investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, a war that Russia once appeared to be winning has, over the past year, turned into an economic and military nightmare for Vladimir Putin and the Russian army.
The war has now become a drone war, according to a military expert familiar with the front line cited by Hersh. “Ukraine has a vast drone surveillance network that detects the Russians as soon as they appear,” the source said, adding that one response to rising Russian battlefield losses has been to offer potential recruits bonuses of hundreds of thousands or even millions of rubles to enlist. However, once they reach the front, corrupt officers reportedly demand payments to prevent the recruits from being sent into combat zones where death by drone awaits.
The result of corruption and intense Ukrainian drone surveillance is that the Russian army has made no further progress in its invasion than it had two years earlier. “They cannot move — they lack offensive capability. This is the same army that went from Moscow to Berlin in World War II. Now it has advanced only about one hundred kilometers into Ukraine,” Hersh’s source adds.
Another sign of Russia’s and Putin’s decline was the decision by Finland, which shares an 830-mile border with Russia, and Sweden, which shares maritime borders, to join NATO. This is certainly seen as a defeat for Russia.
>>2799636Is this a report from 2023? Because if the talking points for Ukraine’s success are identical three years later then, yikes.
>>2799577>Also the initial disbelief that Russia would invade Ukraine was due to NATO claims it was imminent and thus why loads of support needed to be handed over to the Ukrainian military … It was all very hostile towards Russia despite little being observably done on the Russian-side to prepare for an invasion, therefore appearing like baseless accusations to justify whatever NATO had cooking up, including the possibility of direct participation in Donbass.Well the Russians were building up their forces gradually over months while lying about what they were doing, but if Ukraine mobilized in response, then everyone who supports Russia would say they invaded out of necessity to defend Russia from an imminent Ukrainian attack. That's just basic information operations / psyops where you try to maintain the element of surprise because your enemy doesn't know what you're going to do, or when, and if they do anything to prepare for your attack then you can use that to claim they started the war, as a way of shaping perception. You want to create a situation where your enemy is so hopelessly confused and paralyzed that resistance is futile. But it's also difficult to do this today because technology allows everyone to see what everyone else is doing, and the U.S. saw Russia preparing for war and ran their own information operations while rushing anti-tank missiles (a lot of British missiles called NLAWs from what I remember) to Ukraine in an attempt to blunt the armored assault towards Kiev.
I understand distrusting whatever comes out of Washington and being skeptical of U.S. claims about what Russia was preparing to do. But Russia did actually do that and the Kremlin lied because deception and lies are part of warfare. And it's difficult to discuss this on the internet because there are people who either believe the lies, or they are just lying because they see themselves as fighting some info meme war. The U.S. and Israel also ran a deception operation right before attacking Iran, the U.S. built up forces in the Middle East for months while "negotiating" with Iran. The day before the attack the White House was feeding bullshit to the press about how negotiations were going well, but it was all lies.
>>2799638>if Ukraine mobilized in response, then everyone who supports Russia would say they invaded out of necessity to defend Russia from an imminent Ukrainian attack. but Ukraine did build up a large force on the Donbas front, which Russia's buildup was responding to. The same thing had happened like a year before that but they stood down when Russia built up on the border.
There was a lot of talk in the first weeks about how this force was going to get encircled and destroyed. I know you really really want to believe the ukriane dindu nuffin, but some of us remember.
>>2799638The initial accusation was that Zapad-2021 was a military build up intended for an invasion of Ukraine and that kicked off escalations despite Zapad having been conducted multiple times in the past.
Russia’s never-arriving-invasion became a meme because of those months of NATO and Ukraine using Zapad-2021 as a pretence for a large NATO military exercise, sabre rattling about Ukraine’s imminent defensive ascension to NATO, Ukrainian attacks in Donbass and Crimea against a Russian shadow army, etc.
Also interesting to note that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prelude_to_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Makes ONE mention of Zapad in the entire article and it’s not linked despite the existence of a page listing the various Zapad exercises, take that as you will.
>>2799637nice of you to stand on one point and disregard the rest. Here, have some more:
According to Hersh, General Valery Gerasimov, chief of the Russian General Staff, wants to end the war in Ukraine honorably in order to save Russia, since only the poor and the uneducated are left to fight.
Meanwhile, Volodymyr Zelensky, who is widely considered to be involved in the corruption that has tarnished Ukraine for decades, has emerged from the war as a respected leader who never lost faith, even in the darkest days, in the Ukrainian army’s ability to defeat Russia. By contrast, Putin has destroyed whatever reputation he had as an astute global leader, irrationally resisting any settlement of the war as his army and economy collapse.
One question the American journalist raises is whether there is, in his own country, any senior officer willing to take on a “Gerasimov role” vis-à-vis the White House and the Pentagon after the vital decisions on the Middle East now being made in Washington and Tel Aviv.
>>2799653>nice of you to stand on one point and disregard the rest. Here, have some more:That’s not answering the question, what year was this report from? Because it’s not just about Sweden and Finland joining NATO, the allusions to how little territory Russia has captured compared to WW2 and woo about Ukraine having eyes in the skies that Russia supposedly doesn’t are also talking points from circa 2023
Back then Ukrainians were claiming this all results in the conflict being over by 2025.
>>2799640>There was a lot of talk in the first weeks about how this force was going to get encircled and destroyed.The Ukrainian forces array along the Donbass, yeah.
>>2799651>The initial accusation was that Zapad-2021 was a military build up intended for an invasion of Ukraine and that kicked off escalations despite Zapad having been conducted multiple times in the past.I think the reason the U.S. (correctly IMO) deduced that it was cover for an invasion is that the number of forces deployed and the time spent in the field was not consistent with a military exercise because of the costs involved. Also moving perishable supplies like blood. You wouldn't do that during an exercise, you would do that if you preparing to treat wounded soldiers (not pretend to, which is a part of normal exercises). There's a lot of little "tells" like this that normies don't really pay attention to. For the U.S. attack on Iran, there was a big buildup of ships and planes and SAMs but I remember seeing aviation nerds spotting the movement of planes used by pararescuemen ("PJs") whose job is to rescue downed pilots.
>>2799656It's from last month. The Hersh article is paywalled though:
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/russias-stalled-war-in-ukraineHe correctly predicted last year that the U.S. and Israel would attack Iran again in 2026 BTW. He said it would be in the spring and it technically started a month earlier but still.
Also
>Meanwhile, Volodymyr Zelensky, who is widely considered to be involved in the corruption that has tarnished Ukraine for decades, has emerged from the war as a respected leader who never lost faith, even in the darkest days, in the Ukrainian army’s ability to defeat Russia. By contrast, Putin has destroyed whatever reputation he had as an astute global leader, irrationally resisting any settlement of the war as his army and economy collapse.
By all means this conflict may very well end Putin’s political career for dragging on too long, but it’s patently absurd to think that the inverse is true for Zelensky and despite
>the corruption
>the busification
>the images of starving troops
>the reports of suicide missions for “symbolic” settlements
>the loss of desperately negotiated NATO equipment in minefields
>the mass abandonment of their fallen and unpaid compensation
that all gets overshadowed by his courage in refusing diplomacy and he’s going to be showered with praise and respect when this conflict ends.
That’s just a hopium too far Hersh
>>2799662Hersh has published a lot of crap for a few years now.
>>2799661>last monthLmao, “Russia took so little territory tho, lol remember how much they took in WW2?” is a cope formed in the aftermath of the 2023 counteroffensyiv and that basically ending Ukrainian ambitions for retaking 1991 borders by simply driving the Russian military out.
He’s trotting out a 2023 cope in 2026 that was to flip the script on celebrating an imminent Crimean beach party to “erm ackshually it’s Russia who is advancing too slowly”
>>2799661>US officials saidThat’s not really proof of anything, especially if the charge is the US/NATO trying to turn a routine military exercise into an excuse for a diplomatic crisis over Ukraine’s NATO membership
>>2799661hersh is useful only to get some info/leak from US elite military circles, he doesnt know shit about russia and repeat whatever the burgers say about it
>>2799880What did it mean for the Russian leadership?
>>2797434
Another Iraqi leftcom gem
>>2799880Reminder when ukros talk about muh ukrainian proletariat, that they support the torching of these trade union leaders.
>>2799892Don’t you have dead IDF soldiers to cry about?
>>2799880>For the Russians of Donbasodessa is 600km from donbabwe, the onth link between those two is russian glowies
>Donba's'
Sus
>>2800044i think the link between them was that they're both Russian people who happened to wind up with a different passport than other Russian people due to an accident of history in 1991, and then wound up both getting identified as internal enemies by an ethno-nationalist regime that illegally seized power in 2014.
>>2800181was anyone keeping them from returning to where they belong?
this >historical accident could have been easily rectified by voluntary reemigration
>>2800194you need to spell out the analogy to me because i don't see it
>>2800260palestinians belong in palestine unlike russians in ukraine
>>2800265Half (being generous) of Ukraine has been Russian for countless generations and only belongs to Ukraine today because it was allotted to it as a Soviet economic unit. Ukrainians operate exactly like Israel: invent a mostly fictional identity and language and impose it on everyone living within borders granted to them by past external benefactors
>>2800280similarly all of russia has been mongol for countless generations
moreover mongols are the only reason russia exists as a civilization and ethnicity as they bootstrapped muscovy
therefore you should just get replaced
funny how the same logic can be applied to you
does this bit of trivia also make russian a mostly fictional identity and a language? 🤔
>>2800280they want the land but not the people who live on it (unless they can be subordinated under apartheid and denied their rights). same in both places.
>>2800265Russians in Ukraine according to Ukraine:
<Stalin genocided 7 million Ukrainians via Holodomor, then secretly moved in 7 million Russians into Ukrainian villages and cities, taking on local names, and all pretending to be native population, all just to hide a genocide of liberty-loving people of Ukraine!Russians in Ukraine according to real world:
<during the industrialization, since Czarist times, Donbass had an influx of Russians from everywhere, who settled there alongside locals. Cities and miners and peasantry as a result were a mixed population, much more so than in neighbouring regions. Ukrainians themselves were emigrating by the millions from Ukraine's bad overpopulated lands - foresty areas of Chernigov and Kharkov - and wherever else. As a result of rapid industrialization and urbanization under Stalin, this peoples' movements accelerated, and Ukrainian diaspora retards intentionally misrepresented it as Holodomor, genocide or whatever, while in reality they TO THIS FUCKING DAY still haven't found millions of corpses to prove that famine happened AT ALL >>2800412
What do you think about Stalin moving 7 millions Russians into Ukraine secretly, without leaving behind paper trail, eyewitnesses, or anything of the like, while perfectly filling in all the emptied houses in genocided villages with new inhabitants?
>>2799608> russian government is a reflection of the collective psyche of the russians, removing it would be pointless as any other one consisting of russians will turn out the same which is obvious to everyone (except russians apparently)>>2800044>donbabweI'm glad we have a real maidan supporter and not just a retarded westerner who thinks they've got it all figured out for once. Those are at least honest arguments in favor of the maidan government, the exact ones it uses. I wish we had people like you instead of bad faith trolls or clueless people who heard something about Lenin somewhere.
It would also be cool if anyone acknowledged that this is what you are instead of whining about abstract bullshit. But they won't, unfortunately. You get a pass to be as disgusting as possible because no one cares about the truth of the matter.
fixd>>2796573>Can't capture the outhouse outside of kramatorsk>Totally going to capture Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, Dnipro, Kyiv and every other major city Battle of Berlin styleLmao
Because of roboticization and the (latam) mercenary pipeline manpower is no longer a (critical) issue.
It's quite amazing how they managed to fuck up this bad. Once again a stalemate + z gang losing territory (somehow).
Stalin shot generals over less.
<Militarized Ukraine and EU<Unable to commit to allies and key partners like Assad, Maduro, and (now) Mali<Spend years inconveniencing Russian speaking grandmothers by depriving them of heating and electricity but refuse to kill literal 2014 Maidan nazi leaders<Obliterate the homes of pro-Russian inhabitants forcing them to flee<Almost everyone left hates Moscow and will make any occupation a pain<Piss away years of materiel on Donbas trenches instead of marching through the north east back when there was almost no one defending it>Capitulation is just around the cornerOnly one "winning" here is maybe the CPC
>Law of Ukraine "On protecting the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the state language"
>Law of Ukraine "On the Protection of the Constitutional Order in the Field of Activities of Religious Organizations" (read: the Anti-Russian Orthodox Church law)
>On the Condemnation and Prohibition of Propaganda of Russian Imperial Policy in Ukraine and the Decolonization of Toponymy (The law prohibits "publicly honoring and promoting names with symbols of Russian imperial policy, its landmarks, memorable, historical, and cultural places, settlements, dates, events, and representatives.)
>The Russian book ban in Ukraine took effect on 30 December 2016, when President Petro Poroshenko signed a law that restricted import of books into Ukraine from Russia.
I don’t think you have to pass such laws when you occupy territory that’s considered yours by national demographic.
>>2800424>nafo has a fever dream where russia isn't advancing, the EU is militarized rather than severely depleted compared to four years ago, where Mali has fallen rather than just having defeated a large nafo terrorist assault with the help of russia, where everyone in the liberated territories hates the russians only there's never unrest and whenever they talk they say the afu were evil and are glad they're gone, where the usa didn't just get all its bases in the middle east obliterated and didn't just notify europe that it won't be sending them weapons anymore, where some gusanos and robots will make up for all the dead ukrainians and dwindling weapon supplies, and where russia will capitulate in two weeks.must be fun inside nafo heads
>>2800424>Almost everyone left hates Moscow and will make any occupation a painSimilar problem to the Hersh article, something that is shockingly absent from the discussion is how Ukrainian civilians feel. There’s an overemphasis on trying to find a growing movement of disgruntled Russian civilians who we can fund and support into overthrowing the current Russian state, but for Ukrainians it’s simply conjecture that because troops one way or another keep arriving at the front and Zelensky isn’t hanging upside down in the street (yet) that means civilians are still on board with the conflict and fighting to the last of themselves 120%
>>2799653>By contrast, Putin has destroyed whatever reputation he had as an astute global leader, irrationally resisting any settlement of the war as his army and economy collapse.There was an attempt at a settlement early on. But since then he's kept whipping everyone into a frenzy about the "nazi regime" so anything less than Ukrainian capitulation is going to come across as a capitulation on his part.
>>2800432>something that is shockingly absent from the discussion is how Ukrainian civilians feel. I know how they feel because
I live here. (since beginning of the year) A lot don't care about the war except wanting it to be over, some want elections. You'd perhaps also be surprised how much Russian is still spoken in western Ukraine (and no, they don't want to live in Russia).
>>2800426>>2800428This isn't 2023 or 2024 anymore. The EU is militarizing, which is part reason why Ukraine is holding on with the (official) end of US aid.
>liberated territoriesyou mean destroyed villages and neighborhoods? There's almost no one left to resist. Lol.
If they're so convinced eastern Ukrainians are oppressed, why don't they try to surround and capture Kharkiv again? Surely the locals will welcome them this time around, right…?
>NAFO NAFO NAFOWhatever makes you feel better about this stalemate
>>2800444>The EU is militarizingwhat it's doing is heading into a depression and fuel shortages while its weapons dealer walks away. but keep hopium alive i guess
>>2800444>I know how they feel because I live here. (since beginning of the year)There’s something extremely funny about that sentence but I can’t quite put my finger on why.
>A lot don't care about the war except wanting it to be overYou’d have to think Ukrainians are pretty fucking stupid to think
>Because of roboticization and the (latam) mercenary pipeline manpower is no longer a (critical) issue. is conducive to that end or that it doesn’t indicate that Ukraine is already past the point of no return. People would surely want an end to the conflict to preserve life but they’re being told the war can continue because their depleted population can be replaced with robots and Latinos?
I’ve no doubt there will be resentment in Ukraine towards Russia once this is over, but westoids are being arrogant in assuming that Ukrainians can’t see their own exploitation by NATO/EU.
For example, I’m sure being nuked twice stung the Japanese for a long time (ditto the ongoing ritual of US troops in the country raping school girls to remind them who’s boss) but ultimately that has to be compared to a state that was expecting them to purposely crash planes just to keep fighting a war that was already lost, the result being that occupation by the US perhaps is (if not ideal) at least safer.
>Grillpill got burned so badly, he went to live in Ukraine, and is now at risk of the bus
Like if I was Ukrainian, I’d be a bit miffed about the orientalisation of Ukrainians as suicidally zealous about not even Ukraine but just fighting Russia, like it’s what they were born to do.
>>2800444>You'd perhaps also be surprised how much Russian is still spoken in western UkraineThis is also very funny when the practical reality of it being impossible for the Ukrainian state to police every conversation, and that every conversation they can’t police is conducted in Russian, gets presented as proof that Ukraine’s language laws aren’t draconian.
>>2800492I’ve just realised why it’s funny, grillpill emphasises with italics “
I live here” to suggest a level of familiarity with Ukrainian sentiment, but then reveals that he’s not been there even 6 months yet. And in the most peaceful part of the country at that.
>I live here
anon shitposting on obscure forum. not at front line serving his nation.
address forwarded to TCC
>>2800492I'm not the baltic (lithuanian) guy.
>>2800495>peacefulStill got acquainted with a Russian drone whilst I was downtown a few weeks ago.
>>2800502>>2800457I don't have Ukrainian citizenship) I have met the ТЦК in person however (but they weren't nearly as bad as the vids going around).
>>2800456Ukraine is past the point of return in that it will never be like before. If the war ends tomorrow, people aren't going to suddenly forget everything that has happened these past 4 years. And those that left aren't going to suddenly come back. That doesn't mean capitulation is around the corner however.
>robots and LatinosAs long as they don't have to go to the front themselves (or those they know) or live in towns being "liberated" why should they care?
>westoids are being arrogant in assuming that Ukrainians can’t see their own exploitation by NATO/EU. They know. But see the above.
Russia expands oil sales as EU warns global economy ‘reeling’ from Iran war fuel crisis>Russia will supply Indonesia and Japan with crude as both countries look for ways to weather the fuel crisis brought on by the US-Israeli war on Iran. The global economy is “reeling,” and there is “no swift exit” in sight to the standoff in the Strait of Hormuz, EU foreign policy chief Kaja Kallas has said.<Brussels has also sharply increased its imports of LNG from Russia in the first quarter of 2026, despite its vow to phase out Russian energy by the end of 2027, according to the Financial Times.>Last month, the Philippines received its first Russian oil shipment in five years after declaring an energy emergency. Moscow has also signed a new oil and gas cooperation deal with Vietnam, and is holding energy talks with Thailand as well.https://swentr.site/russia/639372-russia-oil-indonesia-japan/I think this is ultimately why the Ukraine project is a bust. If the US wanted to either acquire Russian energy assets after an economic collapse or at least cut the Russian energy industry off from the global market via a conflict and thereby eliminate Russia as competition, Trump has soundly put an end to that ambition by disrupting both the source of oil as well as the seas its transported through.
No doubt the US is heavily influencing Ukraine's current concentration of strikes against fewer oil facilities (currently Tuapse being the most visible) to depict Russia's energy security as also compromised, but it seems like the world's leaders aren't quite as influenced by headlines as Xitter are.
>>2800532>That doesn't mean capitulation is around the corner however. Without change, no doubt. But the point is that Ukrainians surely understand by now that's not up to them, it's not their tenacity (or even passive compliance) that keeps the conflict going but rather their irrelevance and ability to be replaced by robots and mercenaries now and by AI and migrant workers post-war.
You're trying to depict a Ukraine that simultaneously doesn't care about the situation (the conflict), only that they want the situation to completely change (for the conflict to end). That's obviously a contradiction and the basis of that is unironically posting the sentence
>I don't have Ukrainian citizenship) I have met the ТЦК in person however (but they weren't nearly as bad as the vids going around).completely unaware of how demonstrative that is of you still being an outsider to Ukraine and therefore having a different experience to its population, even despite I live in Ukraine btw. You seemingly do recognise some kind of fatigue within Ukraine when walking its streets, but you're still ultimately doing what people online who have never visited Ukraine do in narrativizing that as solely fatigue towards Russia.
Sure, I can't speak for them any more than you can, but the signs are that robots and mercs haven't resolved manpower issues and civilians are fighting back and even killing the friendly recruitoors you've met. Western Ukrainians you've ostensibly communicated to don't think Eastern Ukraine is worth personally fighting for, despite Kiev's insistence that they must. The agencies that are supposed to provide public trust that corruption (their greatest and longest concern) isn't stealing from them during such a critical time have been proven to be duds. The EU can now only promise money in the form of loans to buy weapons that the US claims are out of stock, increasing the chances the promise made by Kiev to fight with shovels will be lived up to. NATO states are deporting refugees back to Ukraine just to be mobilised and continue to complain that Ukraine won't mobilise 18yos.
Hopefully you can see why the latter are signs, while your "experience" of Ukraine as an outsider is just vibes. Yes there's not much to suggest today that a capitulation from the *state* is forthcoming, but it's rather apparent that the fatigue you're sensing isn't solely caused by Russia.
That’s a lot of words, but basically the problem is all of the damage being done to Ukraine gets dismissed in a typical Hollywood fashion like
>They're getting killed out there!
<Oh, no, no. They're not getting killed, They’re getting MAD!
and therefore nothing that happens within Ukraine matters, that’s all Russia’s fault and therefore their resolve to keep fighting until they’re all Columbian Robots only gets stronger with every busification, graft scandal and scuttling of negotiations.
>>2800543>an outsiderI was with a Ukrainian friend at the time. He wasn't treated "worse" than I was. And they checked his documents (they needed to scan something on his phone), before they went to check mine.
I'm well aware the fatigue isn't only towards Russia, but also the government here. But that's not the same as Ukraine being about to capitulate or people wanting to be "liberated" by Russia.
We can turn this around too; are enlistment offices getting bombed in Russia proof that Russia is about to lose and capitulate? I also don't get the impression corruption in Ukraine is "worse" than in the west or anywhere else considering local income levels. Anywhere there's vast amounts o money and desperation there's bound to be graft.
I know some people from the east and south of the country too. And they aren't much different in terms of attitudes for the most part.
>Hopefully you can see why the latter are signs, while your "experience" of Ukraine as an outsider is just vibes.I literally live and work here. And I am relaying things I have also been told by locals. I have some friends in Russia too and they're not exactly "z gang" either. The most common attitude I've found is a kind of apathy and people waiting for it to be over. But no indication there's going to be an uprising or revolution on either side any time soon.
>bots and mercs haven't resolved manpower issues If they haven't, why did the Russians suffer a net loss in territory last month? Why hasn't Kupyansk been taken? I remember reading Ukraine was about to collapse two years ago.
>>2800557>I don’t think corruption is notably a problem in a country that has multiple anti-corruption agencies that have managed to uncover multiple corruption schemes during the conflict but nevertheless have a very low conviction rate and in fact caught opposition from Zelensky’s officeparaphrasing but I think that covers, as an example, the juxtaposition between the facts, how you feel about the situation those facts describe and the obvious disconnect between the two.
Also I’m going to have to call bullshit on this continually escalating claim of integration with Ukrainian society. You started with “I’ve lived in Western Ukraine for less than 6 months” but that now apparently involves having spoken to locals all over the country with whom you’re on good enough terms with to discuss their honest thoughts on the conflict?
You met a recruitoor who was friendly to you as a non-Ukrainian citizen… but also of course you just forgot to mention that an actual Ukrainian civilian was with you?
Please lmao
>>2800566There are people here who've moved here (to western Ukraine, and in particular Lviv) as a result of the war. It's not difficult to speak to locals if you're outgoing (visit clubs and bars, go on dates and you're bound to get into conversations with people). I wouldn't say the recruiters were were friendly, but they were calm and "professional". (also no I didn't forget I was with a friend, but it wasn't a relevant detail initially). It also happened in a park if you're curious (I haven't seen them bother people in busy places here, except for the videos going around on TG).
>good enough terms with to discuss their honest thoughts on the conflict?Well I slept with some of them so yea
>>2800562I'm not saying it can't be objectively worse, but I am skeptical. Because there is an incentive at the moment to stamp it out which makes it more visible. Is the rampant insider trading and (military) price gouging in a place like America worse or better than Ukraine? I've lived in other 'poor' places before, and the stories I've heard so far aren't much different.
>>2800578>slept with some of themDamn nazi cuck fantasies are true
While they get butchered in the trenches foreigners fuck their womenz
>>2800578Sorry but flexing about partying and having sex in a foreign warzone doesn’t stop the escalation from living somewhere for less than 6 months to having a keen awareness of what locals truly think from all over Ukraine from sounding like bollocks.
>>2800412
>the same glowie guy that spend all his posts shitting on every single state resisting the US empire, and is obviously a polyp obsessed with racial slurs is also spouting nazi tier anti soviet propaganda
shocking
Btw
>The most common attitude I've found is a kind of apathy and people waiting for it to be over.
Apathy means disinterest in the outcome, which would contradict with your earlier claim
>Almost everyone left hates Moscow and will make any occupation a pain
Both can’t be true.
>>2800583I didn't sleep with the women ;)
>>2800586>racials slurs spouting nazi tier anti soviet propagandaMeds. I have barely posted here at all these past few months.
>>2800587The places I've visited aren't particularly high end (I have avoided the expensive strip clubs so far). The club I usually visit isn't that expensive either.
>>2800585I've met Ukrainians before outside Ukraine. Have friends in Russia. What I'm saying and have encountered is hardly "Russians are orcs praise Bandera" or NAFOid propaganda. Everyday life here is fairly banal aside from the occasional air raid siren (or rare attack).
I'm not gonna pretend Lviv and Ukraine generally is full of frothing anti-communist hitlerites wanting to genocide Russia (I have seen some red black flags however and Bandera imagery), or that they're all oppressed miserable Russian speakers waiting for Putin to liberate them.
Reality is a lot more nuanced and less exciting than propagandists (NAFO included) and milbloggers make it seem.
>>2800593>I've met Ukrainians before outside UkraineSo what relevance did “erm actually I live in Ukraine” have, if your acute knowledge of what Ukrainians really think was acquired outside of Ukraine? Just like everyone else who claims they know that Ukrainians are completely cool with fighting to the death?
Like what was even the point of this? You went to Ukraine and all you’ve learned from actually being there is that it works as a sex tourism spot. We’re better off hearing about how Lvov compares with the other poor places you’ve been to presumably also for sex tourism.
>>2800590Apathy (including as along as the frontline stays reasonably far away), dislike of both government and Russia, I've met pro-Russians here (though much rarer), I've met people who hate them, I've met foreigners (former mercenaries) who don't care either way and are only here for the paycheck. But a general "apathy" or sense of resignation is the most common.
I think "hates" is perhaps the wrong word generally; it's more like a kind of incompatibility and a lack of interest in getting swept up in the "anti nazi regime" bullshit. Wanting to be just left alone (be it the ТЦК or attempt to "liberate" them), etc.
I do have plans to visit Kharkiv before the end of summer (And I have plans to visit Kyiv and Odessa too) and I will check how it is different there. But my experience thus far is already different from how NAFO and Z bloggers make it seem. ("Banderastan" isn't full of nazis, and it's not filled with 'anti-orc' fanatics either).
>>2800598You’re just making this up as you go along.
My point is that Ukrainians aren’t likely to be as dedicated to their self-sacrifice for NATO’s defence as NAFOids lead themselves to believe by being disinterested in sentiments in Ukraine, you pushed back on that with a load of nonsense about living in Ukraine only to end up with
>it's not filled with 'anti-orc' fanatics eitherSo match point ChampSoc I guess
>>2800598>Banderastan" isn't full of nazis, and it's not filled with 'anti-orc' fanatics eitherYou arent going to casually find the banderite elites walking around cities, they live in bunkers in Belgium.
>>2800597Ukrainians outside Ukraine =/= Ukrainians in Ukraine. Just saying this hardly my first time in eastern Europe or meeting Ukrainians. What I've been talking about however concerns what locals have told me
recently. Not what I've heard from people outside of Ukraine.
>Like what was even the point of this?<something that is shockingly absent from the discussion is how Ukrainian civilians feelAlso feel like this is a lot more interesting than the endless 'debates' about whether "Ruzzia is imperialist" or NAFO drive bys by people who live nowhere near Eastern Europe let alone in Ukraine itself.
Sorry, reality is "boring", nothing ever happens, etc. No cosmic battle between good vs evil that will save everyone (or world socialism). Considering how hyped up this conflict has been and four years of "Kiev nazi regime" I had expected a bit more from this place.
Anyway what can I say? Visit and see for yourself if you (and others here) think I'm full of shit. Have said the same to my friends and family. If you live in Europe and are willing to travel by bus most of the journey it's very cheap too.
>>2800601>You’re just making this up as you go along.See the above post
>My point is that Ukrainians aren’t likely to be as dedicated to their self-sacrifice for NATO’s defence as NAFOids lead themselves to believe I haven't argued anything different
>>2800605>If you live in Europe and are willing to travel by bus most of the journey it's very cheap too.I’m afraid this just sounds more and more like you’re a travel agent for sex tourists lmao
Again, to recap from your <6 months in Ukraine
>most of the opinions you claimed to have heard were while you were outside of Ukraine>Bus travel to Ukraine is cheap>You don’t have to go to expensive strip clubs to get laid>You didn’t fuck women which I’m hoping is a claim that Lvov is LGBT friendly>you can confirm you won’t get busified if you can prove you’re not a Ukrainian civilian nor will air raid sirens mean you’re in danger>locals are politically apathetic so don’t think being Z gang necessarily excludes you from the fun >>2800609
Tbf every year you do see pro-Ukraine supporters claiming the parade is a legit military target.
>>2800611No, most of the opinions I've heard are from here. I didn't get the chance to discuss the war much (offline) with Ukrainians
outside of Ukraine.
In terms of being LGBT friendly; It's neither the worst or best place I've visited. I was surprised going to a (non gay) club and finding people being open.
You can also be safely outside during curfew hours (at least downtown) or grab a taxi, but there's only a few night clubs around, and I only know them through locals.
>Z gang necessarily excludes you from the fun Might find it difficult to be Z gang after visiting. Can't imagine visiting this place and still believing there's a "neonazi regime" or Russian speakers are being clubbed to death. There's still Russian music being played on the radios too.
>>2800615So did you ask the locals their opinions on the conflict while dancing in the club or during sex or walking them to the taxi rank or what point does this “interaction” you have with them turn into real low down vulnerable talk?
>>2800616After sex, before sex, in clubs, outside of clubs, in stores, with friends, friends of friends, had a landlord explicitly tell me she preferred not to speak Russian because of the war. Etc.
As I said I just go on dates or go out and meet people, visit friends, invite people over etc, and the subject will come up quickly. (rather unavoidable here especially if you're a foreigner and people wonder what you're doing here)
>>2800620>rather unavoidable here especially if you're a foreigner and people wonder what you're doing hereYeah that would be a mystery up until you’re getting your cock out
Anyway, just in case you’re not actually just making this all up on the spot, I’d advise you to not confuse sex for connection. Apathy is an easy response to give to questions from people you’ve no reason to talk to beyond basic pleasantries.
>>2800660>Most soldiers who were actually fighting in World War II when there were real Nazis and real communists in control of governments and armies were just trying to survive and the official ideology and propaganda meant nothingNonsense. WW1's apathy was real, Vietnam war apathy was real, WW2's apathy existed on Nazi side only. There were massive amounts of draft dodgers for Nazis, with human hunters just like in Ukraine today searching attics for draft dodgers, somewhat sameish draft evasion in USA, with a lot of people escaping through religious excemptions, but communist side? There was close to zero draft evasion, because Soviet propaganda was truth
>>2800678Yeah sure. And none of them ever surrended either.
But since I mentioned the NAFO people, what I think it is, is that people are trying to escape from boredom. It's not just simple boredom that can be sated with entertainment, but existential boredom that comes with living in the 21st century where people live pretty mundane lives and just burg out to fill the void, but the war zone… that looks different. That looks like it exists in a different zone of duty, idealism and purpose, and where things are not boring and there's some greater significance to what people are doing, so obviously, the people fighting must believe very strongly in whatever those bored people are projecting onto them. But in fact that war zone exists in the same world (and is mostly pretty boring) where billions must burg. And they will because of sheer economic forces that are beyond the power of entire countries to do much about.
>>2800660> A lot of this abstract ideological stuff is for people who are not really involved.A big reason I left that stuff behind is realizing most people don't care and it's a form of securalized apocalyptic religion. I'm more surprised for example by how people find it difficult that I might have been talking to locals here and gotten their opinions on the war and everything, than I am at people doubting I'm in Ukraine at all.
It's not that difficult, either getting here or talking to locals. Which also confirmed for me most people don't think about this conflict in "ideological" terms at all. NAFO types are freaks too and that should be obvious if you talk to "normal" people offline including outside Ukraine. Gore posting (as happened ITT several times) is especially freak shit.
>>2800685>It's not just simple boredom that can be sated with entertainment, but existential boredom that comes with living in the 21st century where people live pretty mundane lives and just burg out to fill the void,And this too. But I think it goes beyond that. It's also a way to feel your life is meaningful, you're part of a big "struggle" between "good and evil". It can be flattering if you've got nothing going for you in your life. Like sure maybe you had a horrible or boring childhood, school sucks, you hate your job, dislike the way you look, no gf, all that. But at least you are fighting the good fight and being a good person, and you can feel pretty "smart" too because you know the world's about to end, and once it does you're either finally free, or you will finally get the success (and acknowledging for having been so "smart" for predicting it) you've been craving all your life, etc.
If you feel good about where you are in life, you feel secure, you have close friends and family, etc chances are you have no need for that. And if you're particularly daring or feel lucky, you can get all of that (which you want) without craving the "end of the world" (in the form of The Revolution, or religious variations).
The fact so much of "leftism" these days revolves around moralistic debates (good vs evil, proletarian vs bourgeois nations, the "sins" of various peoples and ecelebs) and endless references to the scriptures (quoting Marx and Lenin out of context) to me shows it's tied up in a religious impulse.
>But in fact that war zone exists in the same world (and is mostly pretty boring) where billions must burg.People I know were pretty surprised when I told them that people will walk outside during air raids, and most returned to work within minutes after a drone hit a nearby building a few hundred meters away. (once they heard the drone and heard the anti aircraft fire they did rush for cover however)
Ukraine is an interesting place however, if you're an outgoing type like me. There's a lot of interesting people around. But if you're not a very social person, you'd probably find it just as boring as wherever posters here are living at the moment. With the additional minor annoyances of occasional power outages and hiccups, or a rare actual attack. (personally I don't care about the latter - and the people who remain here are pretty used to it too as this point it seems. But it's a lot worse in Kyiv and further east)
>>2800424If Ukraine can successfully fight with only clankers and LatinXes, why is the government still busifying tens of thousands and asking the EU to hand over hundreds of thousands of draft dodgers?
>>2800746Man what the fuck
are you talking about? I said
>something that is shockingly absent from the discussion is how Ukrainian civilians feel. and your response to that was claiming you've fucked multiple Ukrainians
in Ukraine! in the last couple of months and apparently when asked during pillow talk, they expressed simple apathy towards the conflict which was enough to immediately satisfy your curiosity.
Which of course it would. You're there to party for cheap, not to put your finger on the pulse of Ukrainian society, which just goes back to my original point that essentially no one ever will.
The discussion of the effect of this conflict on civilians will always be directed towards the Russian population. Because if it's sounds like they're suffering, then west will get what it wants, if the Ukrainian population sounds like they're suffering, then the west won't.
This was easily the stupidest conversation I've ever had ITT lmao
soyuz status?
Miss the days of trolling this thread with made up claims that the US would soon outmatch Russian artillery shell production and that it was an inter imperialist conflict
Whatever happened to the Sandinista flag anon
>>2800806You miss being ignored or immediately dismissed as a clueless troll?
>>2800775According to the chart Champ posted there's around 200 videos of forced mobilization per month so that's easily replaceable especially since all the kids are being raised to hate Russia. Ukraine can fight for another 10 years no problem. Can Russia? No not really. The average Russian simply does not give a shit about taking Ukraine and the way modern warfare has changed with drones has made it clear to anyone with a brain that Russia is not winning this war. All Ukraine has to do is hold out until Russians get tired of being bled for nothing and go home. Ukraine will be remembered for being Russia's Afghanistan of the 21st century.
>>2800593>I have barely posted here why are you flag swapping to post holodohoax propaganda here then?
>>2800620>especially if you're a foreigner and people wonder what you're doing herethats a good question, war tourism, nato contractor, sex tourism?
>most people are normal peopleshocking, but it was true in nazi germany too, just ignore the swatsika like you're ignoring the bandera flags and the place is "normal"! and the good normal wehrmacht soldiers only wanting to go home were also enthusiast about slaughtering innocent civilians when they could, but all that talk about nazi barbarity is overblown, they are normal people.
and hey, you didnt see anyone get violently busified, so thats probably overblown too right? tourists are always witness to the police and other authorities violence usually!
>>2800746>A big reason I left that stuff behind is realizing most people don't careand thats why they end up in a war they didnt want pushed by officers with nazi tatoos
why bother understanding the world and trying to organize and fight to improve your chances in it, just accept whatever happen happens is that right?
>securalized apocalyptic religionthe apathy for trying to avoid the worst just because you need some analysis and organizing and its not "normal" enough to do that is frankly disgusting. Things can and have changed, and dismissing people giving a fuck as some weird doom cult as if people organizing themselves to change the events around them hadnt had massive impacts on the world is demoralizing bullshit.
>>2800830Bear in mind though the apathy is just his recollection, alongside them mentioning a desire for the conflict to end or at least for elections to be held which don’t sound very apathetic to me.
For all we know the feeling of apathy he’s recalling is his own as he uh-huh'd through the obligatory small talk that accompanies casual sex.
>>2800779>when asked during pillow talk,No. I've talked to more people about the war than those I've slept with. Including friends, friends of friends, random people in clubs, acquaintances, people who have been to the front, and so on.
>Which of course it would. You're there to party for cheap, not to put your finger on the pulse of Ukrainian society, which just goes back to my original point that essentially no one ever will. If it was solely about sex and cheap booze I wouldn't have moved here. It's a long story. But maybe you prefer to believe I'm some sexpat instead of acknowledging that life here is pretty banal all things considered, and locals are varied in their views of the war, but most don't have an "ideological" or catastrophizing view of it. I've met one person who said Ukrainians are being used by the west, but he isn't "pro-Russian" either. It's all very nuanced.
>>2800775My friend told me it's also part due to financial incentives. Have read stories about it too online about how there's schemes where the ТЦК will snatch a guy, then another person will contact the family and pretend they can get them out for a few hundred dollars but they have to be "quick" or else they'll be send to the front and so on.
>>2800830Who said I don't "organize" in my own way? I go out, meet people, create bonds, do favors. And that's helped me many times in my life. What I'm not interested in is religious apocalyptic struggles to "fix" the world in some vague sense. I don't believe in the coming end times (revolution, collapse, race war, what have you), secular or non-secular.
>>2800819>holodohoaxI didn't. Meds.
Also I can count the amount of black red flags I've seen here on one hand. And that's you know at the heart of "banderastan". Not a tourist either. Are Kolchak statues and orgs like Rusich proof Russia is fascist?
>>2800861No, in some cases it's their literal words. Some don't care as long as they can afford to live here (common among foreigners), some hate "both sides", some want peace but dislike Russia too. The degree of apathy is varied too, and at times is conditional. They don't care as long as they don't have to go to the front or there are no Russian tanks driving down the streets and so. I've heard takes on this (the war, zelensky, putin) I hadn't encountered yet or considered (possible).
>>2800869>good enough terms with to discuss their honest thoughts on the conflict?<Well I slept with some of them so yeaYou made sex the important factor here matey.
Perhaps you want to take another swing at answering that question in a way that doesn’t make you sound like a sexpat? After a handful of months clubbing with apparently a lot of people, what exactly makes you feel like you’ve built up enough of a connection with them that you can believe there’s nothing more behind the vague apathy you’re describing?
>>2800873Keyword: 'some'. Also because I've talked to plenty of people at this point, sober, not sober, after knowing them a while, or only briefly. I knew and had spoken to Ukrainians about the war before getting here, and they were varied too. One hated Russia but also didn't want to go back. A guy who went into an impromptu rant about how Zelensky was stealing billions. Etc. But it's only here that I've been able to have in-depth offline conversations about the war with Ukrainians.
And not everyone is (seemingly) apathetic (met a guy claiming he was a refugee from the occupied part of Zaporizhzhia, and as mentioned one landlord said she didn't want to speak Russian because of the war), but it's a "common" attitude around here. At least compared to the online discourse surrounding the war which is a lot more heated, opinionated and apocalyptic than anything I've heard from locals (including people who've been to the front) thus far.
<The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) reports evidence that Russian forces lost 116 square kilometers of previously occupied territory in Ukraine last month.
Is Ukraine winning too slowly?
>>2800870>>2800893Okay but you’ve gone through
>Russia already lost because everyone left hates Moscow and will resist occupation even if they lose>Everyone is just apathetic and waiting for the war to end now or at least holding elections >It’s nuanced and everyone has varied opinions including opposition to Kiev, but none of them are “pro”-Russianand I don’t think you’re going to be able to reconcile that string of downgrades from an absolutist position where Russia can never bring Ukrainians to heel, to simply being certain no one’s going to welcome an end to the conflict waving Russia flags which isn’t what I or anyone has claimed AFAIK.
Anyway I’ll bite, why are you living in Ukraine?
>>2800896Probably since it’s the ISW IIRC that claims Ukraine “liberated” everything from Kiev to Donetsk in 2022
>>2800898>can never bring Ukrainians to heelIn the sense they can bring them onboard with this "nazi regime" clash of civilizations nonsense and capture more than a few destroyed villages, outhouses and tailing pits? No.
And the manpower is increasingly coming from abroad, and the money and materiel already are. So unless another EU country elects its own Orban or Putin greenlights striking EU members, I don't see this changing anytime soon.
>>2800896I can't predict how or when it will act exactly. But I don't see Ukraine capitulating, or having a revolution this year. (Same with Russia).
>Anyway I’ll bite, why are you living in Ukraine?Curiosity, bored with where I was living, including the locals. Packed my bags one evening and left. Planned to stay at least a month or two to figure out if I would be staying long term. Then I ended up meeting someone I really like, so now I will be staying indefinitely. As mentioned I am planning to visit Odessa, Kyiv, Kharkiv and other cities too before the end of the summer.
>>2800904Again you're just glossing over the busification, like
>Colombian mercs>Robutts>Outhousesought to mean the videos of kidnappings shouldn't apply to this discussion.
You said
>They don't care as long as they don't have to go to the frontbut that is happening. Perhaps not in this exact moment while the presumably 18yo-25yo club goers you've personally met are exempt, but that's an ongoing demand from NATO that quite possibly further funding (that we know Kiev are already requesting) depends on. What you're describing is not a nuanced situation, you've described it as directly conditional on Kiev being able to resist NATO's demands indefinitely.
>Curiosity, bored with where I was living.. Planned to stay at least a month or two to figure out if I would be staying long term. Then I ended up meeting someone I really likeI'm going to stop pulling at this thread because you apparently don't know what a sexpat is and that's kind of sad in hindsight after
>>2800746 >>2800660>Most soldiers who were actually fighting in World War II when there were real Nazis and real communists in control of governments and armies were just trying to survive and the official ideology and propaganda meant nothing.The difference is that the Nazis were apathetic vs the Communists who were fighting a genocidal war of industrious scale. That will motivate you when your enemy who invaded you want to remove you and replace you completely
>>2800914I have friends older than that. Also I know what a sexpat is. But that's not what I'm here for.
I'm also not disputing kidnappings, but I've also given an alternative explanation for it.
>>2800929No you’ve given us the low-down on the hopium currently going around the Lvov club circuit for why people of club going age will never be mobilised.
If they’re wrong and they do find themselves fighting for outhouses alongside Mercs and Bots then Ukraine, far from being an astonishingly stable wartime society, is a ticking time bomb which will immediately place the blame for their mobilisation on NATO.
>>2800938I'm not pushing hopium. I'm stating what people have told me and what I've encountered. I'm not saying Ukraine is winning, Ukraine will win, or that capitulation is impossible. But I am deeply skeptical of anyone predicting the country is gonna collapse any moment now. I've also lived in places with mass protests before. And I'm not seeing signs of that.
Most of my (local) friends and people I've spoken to don't here don't go to clubs either. Some are older than me, some younger. As mentioned I'm an outgoing type and like to strike up conversations, so I run into a lot of different people.
I'm not saying they won't be mobilized either. They might be (I don't know how my older friends got themselves exempt or if the ТЦК will respect their exemptions next time). But also there's alternative explanations other than manpower shortages for why some people get forcibly mobilized. Some instances are financially motivated shakedowns.
>but then why doesn't Zelensky interveneSame reason he can't stop some units from painting Germanic pagan symbols on their vehicles, protect the power grid, or prevent some of the rampant graft. Dictatorship isn't a thing the way some people understand it. (Not the first time I've lived in a country with no or no meaningful elections too). There's a lot of fiefdoms, states within the state, etc. That was the case the last time I lived in a country with no elections. And from conversations with my friends I get the impression it works the same here.
>>2800962Honestly what did any of that have to do with
>They don't care as long as they don't have to go to the frontYou just keep saying shit and then walking it back by saying there’s nuance and you know this because you’ve lived every where and spoken to everyone in each place.
Like for real dude, you’re giving Trump a run for his money in how frequently you can self-promote in a single paragraph.
>>2800980This sounds like it was more fun than how I chose to spend my day
>>2800980the 7v1 part is hilarious.
>>2800983I'm not doing anything anyone elsewhere in Europe can't. From what I've read it's possible to get from western Europe to Lviv for around a 100 euros. I think I paid around 30 euros for a ticket myself (from where I used to live in Poland).
Local attitudes are more complicated than what seems to be common online including because many people have friends and family in Russia. And some have weird or incoherent views. (I've heard outright schizo takes too)
>self-promoteIt's just touching grass. Go on dates, bang some people (or not), then encourage them to invite their own friends over, or hang out at their place. Between that and visiting clubs and bars (preferably with a friend or SO which makes it easier) you'll run into a ton of people to talk to. That's all there is to it.
>>2800973I explicitly said I don't think the country is "winning". Can't think of my friends gaining or losing anything by the Donbas falling to either side tomorrow and the war ending.
But I don't buy the "imminent collapse" narrative either. From my point of view either side 'winning' is irrelevant as far as people's personal lives are concerned. If "your side" destroy your hometown in the process of "liberating" it did you win? If Ukraine capitulates tomorrow will all the Russian crippled volunteers have "won" too?
I know many here subscribe to grand totalizing eschatological 'ideologies', where all of this is part of the great inevitable struggle between good and evil. But it doesn't mean shit on a personal level. And it's way more "larpish" than letting curiosity get the better of you and visiting Ukraine.
>>2800984 I was fanboying as a little girl the whole stream lmao
>>2800869>I didn't. Meds.you replied to me replying to a retard trolling with holodohoax like I was talking to you. If it wasnt you in the first place, I think you got ego problems mate
>>2800869> I go out, meet people, create bonds, do favors.thats not what "organizing" means, even if it include this, thats just you living your life
>>2800904>Curiosity, bored with where I was living, including the locals. Packed my bags one evening and left. Planned to stay at least a month or two to figure out if I would be staying long termwho the fuck goes to a country at war because he's "bored"? and can afford to. I get the feeling you didnt hang out with the average worker
>>2801238Taking another look at the picture of Red Square, I think the layout is completely wrong lmao
Don’t pro-Ukrainians ever get the sense there’s something wrong when they repeatedly get AI generated peremogas?
>>2801018Look if I ever become so bereft of social contact in my life that I need to go to a foreign warzone looking for it, I’ll call you.
I still can’t tell the difference between Russians and Ukrainians, it’s all the narcissism of small differences
>>2801182where can i see this from grisha's perspective
>>2801305Well you see their nationalist brainworms have different flags
>>2801272so you're mad that someone went to a country, saw it wasn't like your non-wholesome neo nazi press gang dystopia, and now you're crying it's all fake, it never happened and actually even if it did happen, you're a loser, this still isn't as bad as your "what is your native language?" crashout
>>2801327Everyone I debate ITT is a loser tbh.
Sometimes they’re sexpats telling me how normal Ukraine is and therefore also how morally sound their trip is, sometimes they’re chauvinists that make an issue of ESLs but immediately shut down when asked what second languages they speak, sometimes they just describe their violent fantasies involving me, sometimes they recount my entire posting history and any grammatical or naming mistakes I’ve made, but I don’t believe anyone would view those as *my* crashouts lmao
>>2801327>non-wholesome neo nazi press gang dystopiathousands of busification videos are all fake because someone on an anonymous basket weaving imageboard said they went to ukraine and didn't see it happen while providing zero proof
>Grillpilled came back from sex tourism in Ukraine to talk about how no one in Ukraine is afraid of losing the war and most people don't really care about it
<Champ instantly has a melty because his conception of Ukraine on the verge of defeat was BTFO by someone who actually went there
lol
>>2799636>same army from ww2what source is he smoking lol
>>2801327why would you defend a literal sex tourist lmao
>>2801416Not-Grillpill described a society where everyone (and by that it’s mainly exempt youths at clubs) wants the conflict to end has an excuse for why
they won’t be mobilised and are only willing to support the conflict’s continuance for while they’re not being mobilised, which could change any day now.
https://eventsinukraine.substack.com/p/mobilization-to-intensifyHe’s ignored that to frame it as though the people he’s shagging doesn’t care about the conflict, because that makes it seem less like he’s exploiting scared young lads as a sex tourist.
I think we all can picture what the reality looks like here..
>>2799661>He correctly predicted last year that the U.S. and Israel would attack Iran again in 2026 BTW. He said it would be in the spring and it technically started a month earlier but still.He isnt as reliable as he used to be, predicting they would attack again in 2026 isnt really a feat if you consider what was going on even if you just followed osint. He also got another date wrong when they would attack last year… I remember reading that article and it would surprise me if they delayed the attack just because of that one article lol
Apparently Germany is now the top producer of conventional ammunition in the world before the US, Ukraine is building up its airforce with Saab slated to deliver hundreds of planes in addition to the 2 AWACS they just gave and Russia now routinely sends less drone strikes than Ukraine. The industrial warfare shit is not looking too good for Russia now the EU decided to dump all that taxpayer money in the defense industry and this war. I have a feeling this bulslhit conflict will continue to the 2030s
>>2801522soon there will be nobody left to fight in ukraine. it can't go on forever
>>2801523If Russia thinks this they already lost this war, Ukraine can still draft millions and at this rate of loss they won't run out of people in decades. Meanwhile European countries are cutting the gibs to Ukrainian refugees end encouraging them to go home, and the more time passes with the chauvinist propaganda increasing in Europe and the military buildup the more likely they'll send boots on the ground rather than see this country they invested so much in completely fall
>>2801522The problem is for a lot of those EU contracts for supplying Ukraine with new production, the conflict would have to go into the 2040s for the orders to be fulfilled.
Like the Swedish Gripens have no fixed deadline but suggestions are from Saab that deliveries start in 2028 and it’s going to take up to 15 years for the completed fleet to be delivered.
>>2801524Not the first time an Austrian didn’t accept his first defeat kek
>>2801524<bro AI'd himself thinamazing
>>2800746>The fact so much of "leftism" these days revolves around moralistic debates (good vs evil, proletarian vs bourgeois nations, the "sins" of various peoples and ecelebs) and endless references to the scriptures (quoting Marx and Lenin out of thats the dumbest thing i have ever read, embarrassing
>>2800962>Same reason he can't stop some units from painting Germanic pagan symbols on their vehicles, protect the power grid, or prevent some of the rampant graft. Dictatorship isn't a thing the way some people understand it. (Not the first time I've lived in a country with no or no meaningful elections too). There's a lot of fiefdoms, states within the state, etc. That was the case the last time I lived in a country with no elections. And from conversations with my friends I get the impression it works the same here.Kek, quite a flowery description for a dictatorship, atleast he admitted it. What I think is particularly interesting is I am seeing parallels to nazi germany, you talk to people and they say they knew nothing about the genocide going on in the back, they were just living their lives. Makes cucktin even look more like a cuck than i initially believed. It really is a no benefit no loss scenario. The world is full of these people, they provide no benefit other than to their own and so getting rid of them is no loss either.
This is an interimperialist war.
I was watching a video of Ukrainian drones being intercepted and it occurred to me just what a bizarrely large variety of drones Ukraine has for a military that is supposedly producing them all by themselves despite the frequent strikes against their industry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMcQrSCA4XkSo I asked AI to list exactly how many drones are purported to be produced in Ukraine itself and it has come up with
>Ukraine has undergone a "drone revolution" since 2022, scaling from fewer than 10 domestic manufacturers to over 500 companies by 2026. The Ukrainian Ministry of Digital Transformation and the "Army of Drones" initiative have been central to this rapid industrialization.
>Long-Range "Deep Strike" Drones<UJ-22 Airborne<Liutyi (An-196)<Bober (Beaver)<Morok<AQ-400 Scythe<FP-1
>Reconnaissance & Artillery Correction<Leleka-100 (Stork)<Shark<Valkyrie<PD-2
>FPV (First-Person View) & Tactical Attack<Khmarynka (Cloud)<Blyskavka (Lightning)<Vyriy Drones<Wild Hornets
>Heavy Bombers ("Baba Yaga")<R18 (Aerorozvidka)<VampireAnd I don't think this is an exhaustive list, surely it can't be efficient to have this many different models in production and since they're all made out of wood and foam, it's not like that's down to needing different designs to use whatever specialised tooling a particular factory has.
>And I don't think this is an exhaustive list
It isn't, I've already found more long range suicide drones on Wikipedia that weren't listed
>Peklo
>UJ-22 Skyline
>Converted A-22 Foxbat
>Sky ranger Nynja (conversion)
>Palianytsia
>>2801584>Ukraine has undergone a "drone revolution" since 2022, scaling from fewer than 10 domestic manufacturers to over 500 companies by 2026. The Ukrainian Ministry of Digital Transformation and the "Army of Drones" initiative have been central to this rapid industrialization.Went from building airplanes to cardboard boxes with chinese electronics in it. Private companies cant build shit honestly. Im guessing even the cardboard is sourced from china or the eu lol
>>2801599I'm pretty sure all these private companies are just fronts for NATO manufacturers tbf. Ukraine did market themselves as a testing ground for western weapons manufacturers and there is a lot of interest in suicide drones now due to this conflict.
>>2801642they will say that because the head of the RDK is jewish (came to germany on a jewish visa) he can't be a nazi.
Moscow declares Victory Day ceasefire, warns Kiev against strikes>Any attempt by Kiev to disrupt celebrations would be met with a major strike on Kiev, the Defense Ministry has saidhttps://swentr.site/russia/639437-moscow-declares-victory-day-ceasefire/Okay big deal right? Well, according to RWApodcast (who have made their account public again) the full statement by the Russian MoD includes
>Russia, notwithstanding the capabilities at its disposal, has hitherto refrained from such actions on humanitarian grounds.>We hereby warn the civilian population of Kiev and the personnel of foreign diplomatic missions of the need to leave the city in good time.which is different, right?
>>2801695I trust the Turkish LARPer living in Germany more than Cucktin. RWA is correct. I hope Ukraine hits the parade so we can again watch as Cucktin does nothing in response. At this point it is up to the Russian people themselves to replace their retarded leadership with someone who will actually defend them. The lesson can only be learnt through repeated Ukrainian escalation until even the most braindead Putin lover is ashamed to admit it in public. Also western media has recently been warning of a possible coup attempt against Cucktin by the military. Clearly the West wants to keep Cucktin in charge.
>>2801709I dunno, normally the Russian state has the tiresome quality of making vague threats of retaliation and then claiming an attack on something like an electrical substation
was retaliation, despite that already being the day-to-day target for drones anyway.
Advising civilians and even foreign diplomats to leave Kiev before the parade is unusual in how specific it is. Likewise, the RT article has been updated with
>It warned that any attempt to disrupt the celebrations, including a strike on Moscow, would be met with a retaliatory strike on the Ukrainian capital.and "any" is again quite different. Because while pro-Ukrainians claim every year that the Moscow parade itself is a legit military target, Ukraine never actually attacks it and always ignores the ceasefire elsewhere to little consequence.
>>2801729>and always ignores the ceasefire elsewhere to little consequence.Or rather it just attacks something else regardless of whether there's a ceasefire
>>2802078>b-but what about le russian naziswhoa… all hail the thousand year reign of US dollar hegemony!
>>2802245
Don't worry that's just a "small and smokey fire" as Champ likes to say. I'm sure no Russians were killed by that explosion and Putin won't have to do anything in response.
>>2802276What would you do if you were in Putin's boots? Full frontal assault? Nuclear holocaust on every Ukrainian city? Both?
>>2802288I'd start by destroying the entire Starlink constellation which has been providing Ukraine unlimited real time recon of Russian forces since the very beginning of the war and which Cucktin has avoided attacking for the entirety of this conflict.
>>2802295that's not what starlink does
>>2802276>Putin won't have to do anything in response.like what? i see footage of russians droning resident areas every single day, what else can he do?
>>2801449>wants the conflict to endIt varies. There's some who explicitly told me they want the conflict to end, and there's some who never mentioned it or didn't seem to care. People who stated they had no intention of leaving no matter how long this goes on and so on.
>youthI know several people who aren't of draft age and don't visit clubs.
>he’s exploiting scared young lads as a sex tourist. Almost everyone I've slept with here are around the same age or older lol
>>2801358I never said that busification videos are fake. I said my personal encounter with them wasn't like that. My conversation with my friend after that encounter was specifically about those videos too. I asked him why people accepted that (busification) and he insisted they didn't, which is why they try to (mostly) grab people where there is almost no one around (like at a park where we were).
>>2801549Where are the death camps and forced expulsions nowadays? I read (before going here) that the Russian language was banned, but I still hear Russian songs on radios, and Russian being spoken by people on the streets.
> The world is full of these people, they provide no benefit other than to their own and so getting rid of them is no loss either.My friends in Russia aren't much different. Unless I bring up the war or my experiences here, it never gets mentioned. Sorry, but most people just wanna grill. They don't care about this "good vs evil" end times world revolution clash of civilizations stuff.
>>2801537Look no further than this thread. Not understanding nuance or being unable to integrate ambiguity (busification videos are real but it's also possible to have a 'calm' interaction with the ТЦК) is a dead giveaway.
>the nuance of busification
>>2802305ICE raids are real, but you can have a chill encounter with their officers – true or not?
>>2802295>To not be cucktin we must destroy 10k satellites and kessler syndrome the planet in the process.https://satellitemap.space/vis/constellation/starlinkSay sike, please?
>>2802276Your reaction to a Ukrainian drone slamming into a civilian street is a sick burn against me? Like I said, all my detractors ITT are losers lmao
>Putin won't have to do anything in response.Russia is continuously striking military targets within Ukraine with a lot more accuracy than Ukraine can manage, where their drones eventually fall well out of radio contact and rely on basic inertial guidance (if any guidance at all).
I don’t believe Ukraine necessarily intends to strike civilian apartments and streets, it’s just avoiding that possibility is less important than getting the headline about a strike 1000km inside Russia so people like you can infer that means Ukraine has impunity over Russia while allowing the damage Ukraine suffers to be out of sight and out of mind.
>>2802333A worthy sacrifice to permanently blind NATO and to free Ukraine from Angloid control.
>>2802352>We expect the Ukrainian side to follow this exampleit's so over……this is like sticking your dick in front of Zelensky and expecting him to not reach for a knife to chop it off. russia is cooked fr fr
>>2802305You’re claiming nuance by just repeatedly misinterpreting the point being made
>Busification is nuanced, because actually I met a recruitoor who was professional and didn’t kidnap me or my friend on that particular day>Neo-nazism in Ukraine is nuanced, because I was able to be gay in nightclubs and private abodes without being murdered>Ukraine being a dictatorship is nuanced, because you can speak Russian in any conversation they can’t police>Fatigue in Ukraine is nuanced, people mention fatigue and a desire for the conflict to end but they’re not pro-Russian westoids will riot and scream fascism over one murder by the police but when "the shield of europe" press gangs thousands of people, kills at least dozens in the process and sends them off to die, that's nuanced and just how life is
ukrainian lives literally don't matter, would be sad if they weren't so raped
>They don't care about this "good vs evil"
And let’s face it, this is the only point you really want to make. You packed your bags one day looking for fun in a place that was cheap to get to and presumably has a weaker currency than your own because it’s a warzone and, naturally, you want to emphasise how grey this all is
>Ukraine isn’t good or evil
>Ukrainians don’t care about good or evil
>Russians don’t care about good or evil
>I didn’t personally experience any of the problem widely reported as on going in Ukraine
>I’m just outgoing, like going off the beaten track, meeting lots of people from all walks of life
>I’m not exploiting anyone, most of them were my age I swear
Like fuck man no one cares about your moral standing, people like you were showing up in Ukraine and other Eastern European countries as soon as the wall fell, they also have tales of partying with the nobly apathetic locals and what a worldly person they are for experiencing it.
You can’t offer up (continuously developing claims of) personal experiences as anything other than anecdotal evidence.
>>2802339> a Ukrainian drone slamming into a civilian streetthis guy claims it's some sort of a factory producing components for russian drones
which one of you's lying?
i'll accept google maps link showing it's just some random street
>>2802394Why would I need to provide the proof that a factory was hit? Ukrainians are already untrustworthy with their claims of drone strikes in Russia, like
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30_May_2023_Moscow_drone_strikes>Perpetrators: Disputed >>2802359>westoids will riot and scream fascism over one murder I think that's hysterical too yes
>>2802356It really is like that. There's busification, but not every member of the ТЦК is like that. There are fashy flags (OUN, Bandera symbolism) but not every Ukrainian is a nazi, some dislike Zelensky but also dislike Russia, etc.
>>2802369>didn’t personally experience any of the problem widely reportedI've already experienced the power outages, attacks, and so on. And if it were about money I could've stayed where I used to live (in Poland) or moved to a cheaper city.
Reminds me of an (online) American friend of mine who insists Muslism are taking over Europe, going to destroy the west, that the Caliphate is real, non-Muslims will be forced to pay Jizya.
But then I told them what traveling to and living in Muslim countries was like, and what Muslims (in Europe) are like in person. (and how people were saying the same things 25 years ago) And he still doesn't believe me.
>>2802402no see you'd be proving it's on some 'civilian street' nowhere near the supposed target which was your claim
Recent Battlefield Statistics (Late 2025 – May 2026)
>April 2026 Net Loss: Russia suffered its first net territorial loss since the August 2024 Kursk incursion. Ukraine recaptured a net of 116 square kilometers (45 square miles) in April 2026.
<Declining Advance Rate: Between November 2025 and April 2026, Russian forces captured 1,443 square kilometers. This is a sharp decline from the 2,368 square kilometers captured during the exact same period a year earlier.
>Daily Averages: Russia's average rate of advance dropped to 2.9 square kilometers per day in the first four months of 2026, down from 9.76 square kilometers per day in early 2025.
>>2802412Ukraine are the one who launched the drone (assuming that haven’t already disputed that) and claimed the target was a factory. Me doubting that isn’t something I need to back up with evidence, my claim their drones go off course I’ve already evidenced with the Wikipedia article (corroborated by Ukraine disputing the wayward drones were theirs)
>>2802416that's not what happened. you claimed it's some civilian street (so the burden of proof is entirely on you). i pulled out some other claim disputing your claim - the ball's in your court.
>>2802423do non-civilian streets often have billboards and such?
>>2802424i've no idea what a non-civilian street is
the factory is right next to a mall so i don't see why there wouldn't be billboards and such
>>2802423>Ukraine are the one who launched the drone and claimed the target was a factory<that's not what happened… you claimedMy detractors ladies and gentlemen, once again placing me in this thread on a higher pedestal than either Ukraine or even Putin.
>>2802307>>2802356how does that work? instead of a blue van, you get nuanced with a pink van?
instead of being beaten by the TCC, you, nuancedly, get beaten by Mickey, Spongebob, the Ice Age squirrel and Pikachu but in Ukraine and for realsies instead with the Chelyabinsky darkly humor?
>>2802411>There's busification, but not every member of the ТЦК is like that. There are fashy flags (OUN, Bandera symbolism) but not every Ukrainian is a nazi, some dislike Zelensky but also dislike Russia, etc. why are you saying this like its some sort of revealation, or a new information? even nazi germany was like that
>>2802449Does that look like a factory to you? Do they often have cafes and bank branches and so many windows in Russia?
The only thing you’ve proven is how eager you are to believe Ukraine’s peremogas and its frankly embarrassing at this point that’s been such a contentious issue for you that you’ve resorted to filtering.
>>2802305Why would a recrooter be violent towards you if you are so gullible? "When I was visited by an SS Officer he treated me pretty nicely" yeah, I wonder why you disgusting piece of shit.
>My friends in Russia aren't much different. Unless I bring up the war or my experiences here, it never gets mentioned. Sorry, but most people just wanna grill. They don't care about this "good vs evil" end times world revolution clash of civilizations stuff.Yeah, because youre a liberal and attract liberal friends. I had my fair share of arguments against mr champagne here but you an unironic retard who lacks any sort of introspective. Thats an achievement.
>>2802466i'm pretty sure i saw some war correspondent touring a drone assembly in a regular office building at the beginning of the war i can search that up for you
>>2802333yes unironically
>>2802460filtered
also rofl
>>2802473Ukrainian guy claimed it was navigation modules, so if you have proof of those being produced in that building then by all means. It’s probably between Alfa Bank and a bubble tea shop
Also the claim is that this wasn’t a drone but one of those crazy awesome even better than a Tomahawk Flamingos from that military industrial company that used to be a TV production studio
>>2802394Who gives a shit. Russia makes thousand times worse hits against civilians daily.
>>2802570lol no they dont
So this is the future of warfare huh, grinding attritional combat and tit for tat drone strikes that last 10+ years…
>>2802680no, typically strategists would want to avoid getting locked in a situation like this with two spread too thin armies keeping one another in check
>>2802680Zizterland is just uniquely incompetent in everything it attempts
>>2802394>Gerashchenkoif an banderite ukrainian tells you the sky is blue, better believe is green.
>>2802449aaaaaaawww what an honor to be filtered by a seething banderite.
me, me, me, filter me next. ❤️❤️❤️
>i'm pretty sure i saw some war correspondent touring a drone assembly in a regular office building at the beginning of the war i can search that up for you
KEEEEEEK vibes and feels
>>2802680and get lost the size of England in territory.
>>2802824hey champ, get off your alt
>>2802848Not fighting the allegations of being a loser
Per Events in Ukraine:
>Leaked conversations this week show Zelensky's friend Timur Mindich (now living in Israel) telling minister of defense Rustem Umerov to secure billions of euros more European financing for the FirePoint company
>‘6 billion—that’s a lot, brother’'
>Previously, it was rumored that FirePoint, which received a third of Ukraine's state drone budget, was actually Mindich's.
>Now, it is proven————–
>Ukrainian military analysts reported on April 28, 2026 that there have only been 23 recorded launches of this wunderwaffen. But Denis Shtilerman, official head of the company, claims in interviews that 2-3 Flamingos are produced daily.>And of those 23 launches, six reached their targets. Only 2 actually hit their targets. The rest fell, missed, or were shot down.>2 out of 23.https://eventsinukraine.substack.com/p/fake-missiles-billions-embezzled>>2802848unlike buhanka, who is Russian, I am from Latin-America.
He can prove anyone he's Russian by writing in a Russian unlikely to be imitated by AI-Translation tools, I can write in Spanish, unlikely to be imitated by AI-translation tools.
Hope that helps me win the 'I blocked another person that makes me seethe' award ❤️
>>2802852Even if it is all deaths, that’s only slightly more than the standard truck load Ukraine receives of 1000 bodies that for weeks or even months won’t have had a grave and a flag or even an official acknowledgement of their status, let alone immortalised as an engraving on a monument.
>>2802852The earlier memorial with the portraits was for a hundred soldiers who were recognized as doing exceptional feats before dying in combat. This newer museum and cemetery includes all of the soldiers killed in action.
>>2802862>Hope that helps me win the 'I blocked another person that makes me seethe' award ❤️The team!
>>2802875maybe, but somewhat strange that they would put the gold star on a monument that isn't dedicated to the recipients
It is interesting though what nationalities represent the nafo/cucktin poster anons, we assume Yanks and Balts but maybe we could be surprised
>>2802926def at least one russian libtard or actual hohol lurking about
This war made 3 millions casualties and the DPRK lent a good bunch of soldiers to make Cucktin lift some of the Russian sanctions that were starving them, high probability that a lot of them died or were seriously injured yeah
>>2802834how much did they cost?
>>2802949you should see the Russian libs replying to this post in X:
https://nitter.net/LibbySnowflak/status/2050799505277071566absolutely gusano whoreing behavior.
>>2803021How can they possibly think this is effective propaganda?
>>2803021i saw it
i'll say it again, russian gusanos are probably the worst people on the planet after iranian ones
and even that isn't certain - most iranian gusanos seem to have some national project in mind, even if it's an israeli rapeslave colony
russian libs want russia destroyed and russian language and culture completely extirpated and replaced by a giant mcdonalds
>>2803028Those Russian libs sound kinda based
>>2803041maybe if it applied to other countries, but no, just blind worship of the USA
I wasn’t paying much attention to the map but according to the Military Summary channel, the Russian military has reached Konstantinovka and are approaching Slovyansk which are the two ends of a string of towns and cities that seem to make up the last substantial urban area in Donetsk oblast.
This makes sense for why anons have recently been claiming that Russia has lot significant territory, they’re still fighting for outhouses, don’t even look at the front in fact because Ukraine is droning civilians deep in Russian territory.
The Kramatorsk salient is basically the end game for Donetsk isn’t it?
they've reached that village a year ago, it's just outside toretsk which russia conquered in summer 2005
>>2803756>which russia conquered in summer 2005Hello time traveler, could you please tell us what year Amerikkka finally dies so the Russians ITT can stop pretending to like Putin?
>>2803021>libs saying NAFO is a putin project lol. this is like those conspiracies that azog battalion is a kremlin psyop
>>2803851https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Toretsk#Fighting_in_and_around_Toretsk_(1_January_2025_%E2%80%93_7_August_2025)>>2803851when amerikkka falls russians itt will go >ooga booga rashka stron we war you now overdrive because finally there would be no obstacles against their nuclear threatening
assuming we live that long, rome was in almost constant state of decay for 500 years before it fell apart
>>2803862>Putler invades Ukraine, just stops a quarter of the way in, giving a brain-dead NATO an excuse and much time to rearm, organize and expand while killing 1 million eastoidsthat shit is 1000% NAFO
>>2803900>rearm<Stockpiles of weapons that are no longer manufactured are depleted, replacements are more expensive and low volume than ever>organize<A rift between the US and EU opened over goals in Ukraine that's only expanding over Iran>killing 1 million eastoids<In contrast NATO figures have only suffered deaths via hiking accidents and sudden health complications, volunteer troops that act a lot like special forces, military schools set up in Ukraine that then got bombed but were probably evacuated in timeI think you have to commit to NAFOhood to buy any assertion that this conflict, as it has played out, has been a dream come true for NATO.
>>2803946Russia tries to fight war capitalist style. They know their plebs are a bunch of treatlers so they don't want an actual mobilization.
>inb4 muh volunteersYes there are volunteers, but they are a small fraction relative to the total mass of russians that just want treats and скрепы. Russia is truly cucked beyond belief. Xi needs to annex all of russia and make Lukashenko the Satrap of the annexed lands.
>>2803934NATO is using Ukraine as a puppet state to bleed Russia dry to the point where they don't have any hardware to spare for a parade. Virtually no NATO troops are on the ground "b-but the degenerate hohols are dying more", sure, and the western supremacists are perfectly happy with a colonial thrall of ex soviet slavs doing the dying, they will really fight to the last ukrainian as Russian chauvinists crazily smirk about doing just that instead of winning the war which is the most NAFO thing
During the year, 3,000 Fire Point drones were launched at Moscow, but only one flew, said at a meeting of the parliamentary commission of inquiry, Major of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Yuri Kasyanov, a former commander of the drone unit.
He claimed a conflict with the company and its co-owner Denis Stillerman, which led to the disbandment of the unit commanded by Kasyanov.
"The Fire Point company ordered us. That is why we were not allowed to bomb Moscow and were subsequently disbanded. Because it was the Fire Point planes that were supposed to do this, which were completely ineffective," Kasyanov said.
He previously said that FP won contracts despite design flaws, while the model he developed called Spear was ignored.
Recall, according to media reports, the FP missiles also do not yet demonstrate accuracy: there were only two verified hits from 23 missiles.
>>28040311/3000 and 2/23 efficiency of Ukrainian weaponry
>>2800181Then, in a rejection of that nonsense, a less anti-Russian leader was elected in 2019 and Russia decided that they didn't care and invaded anyway
>>2804030They thought their sole input to this conflict was going to be sanctions and that was going to bleed Russia dry instantly, then it was winning the conflict using obsolete shit (but still superior to Russia's equipment) saved from the scrapyard, then it was giving over a small number of wunderwaffen to Ukraine to cross Russia's red lines with, now it's taking out massive loans with Russian reparations as collateral and converting defunct high-tech factories closed by abandoning Russian energy into drone production for Ukraine's sole card left to play in this conflict.
As for the parade not having much equipment, well in previous years while there was brand new equipment the smugness was about that proving Russia having potemkin tanks that don't really work or they'd be used, now they're being used or even expended the smugness is that they're in use at all.
It doesn't really matter either way, the victory parade gets some kind of take about humiliation, even if they have to point out that St Basil's Cathedral needing a fresh lick of paint proves how economically destroyed Russia is.
Alternative take on Russia directly announcing the parades are scaled back: pro-Ukrainians keep talking up how the parade is a legit military target because of all the soldiers and military equipment is involved. If Kiev is now committed to attacking the parade, they'd be attacking a parade that apparently won't have the equipment they'd claim made it a legitimate target, thus making whatever strike Russia has (or hasn't) got planned for Kiev more justifiable.
>>2796588Euro-Maidan was bad but there was truly no excuse for the invasion of Ukraine. Zelenskyy had no intention of committing some kind of Russian genocide, and no the civilian casualties in the Donbas war do not count. It's a tragedy that the agreement to respect elections in LPR and DPR in return for Russia's withdrawal was a failure, and I think both Ukrainian militias and the Russian government were to blame for this. Nonetheless, this war has been an absolute fucking tragedy and Russia ultimately started it. None of the problems that existed in Ukraine could have ever been bad enough to justify the war, which has killed far more people than any continued seperatist-nationalist clashes could.
>>2804058Dude, you've seen already what US did in Iran. Ukraine wanted to be an attack dog of the US empire the same way Israel is. How do you not understand that Russia didn't want to get bombed?
>>2804062Ukraine was at no point planing to start a war with Russia, but if you have some bombshell proofs showing otherwise feel free to share them.
>>2804041At this point is safer to work at a mcdonals, lmao.
>>2804067>Ukraine was at no point planing to start a war with RussiaNo, but they were planning to be an outpost of US imperialism that would host US troops, bases, and intelligence assets all aimed at Russia. Its undeniable that the West is the aggressor in the global strategic sense. You can denounce the existence of spheres of influence and large states using small ones for their own ends, but the fact is that it was the West that encroached on Russia's sphere of influence, not the other way around.
>>2804037>a less anti-Russian leaderthat was the scam zelensky used to get into power, but he delivered poroshenko policies anyway. the rejection of minsk continued, military buildup around donbas continued and shelling escalated, banning of russian everything escalated. this proved to russia that there was no political solution. ukraine would get anti-russian nato policy no matter what or who they voted for.
>>2804058in 2025 ukraine built up for a blitzkrieg in donbas. Russia built up on the border and ukraine backed down. In early 2026, same thing, but Ukraine didn't back down and escalated the shelling. Ukraine made clear to Russia they were never going to give up on taking Donbas by force and would never comply with Minsk. Ukraine made a fight inevitable, just as they were instructed to do.
>>2804067Ukrainian Nazis were planning to "decolonize" Russia since 1991. It was in every Ukronationalist book, how Russia consists of a myriad different colored Ukraines, lol
>>2803947>Russia tries to fight war capitalist style. They know their plebs are a bunch of treatlers so they don't want an actual mobilization.Man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind, and it's treats and gambling.
>>2804041Brace Belden under the table
>>2804078 (me)
whoops, incorrect nazi parade. that's the nazi-gay parade.
>>2803996here, enjoy.
What kind of subhuman besmirches Victory day over Nazi Germany as a "Nazi parade"?
>>2799283Woulf you shut the fuck up, you filthy zigger? Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, this is a slaughter of millions of innocent people because Putin is a faggot who got mad that his bourgeoisie empire didn't have the land and resources that were in another bourgeoisie state.
>>2804085Well Ruzzia is inviting its BEST FRIEND Israel to Victory Day as well
>>2804089>wah shutup with facts. i want muh cartoon good guy bad guys narrative the msm packaged for meeat shit nafo
>>2804062Yeah sure the US was going to invade a nuclear country with over 100 million people, all they needed was an opening!
>>2804074Oh no, the possibility of regime change? I have an idea, let's kill millions of people!
>>2804075Zelenskyy tried to negotiate with Russia in order to end the war in Donbas, a combination of Ukrainian Nazi groups and Russia's unwillingness to follow through on the deal killed the plan.
>>2804067>Ukraine was at no point planing to start a war with Russialiterally you have hollande, merkel, and now even blinken in 2025 stating that they gave ukranie tons of weapons, including himmars acting in bad faith against the spirit of the Minsk agreements.
https://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/270886>In government-controlled areas beyond the respective withdrawal lines, the SMM noted 12 multiple-launch rocket systems (MLRS; BM-27 Uragan, 220mm)…they fucking wanted that war.
>>2804114Wow I wonder why they wanted to give Ukraine a ton of weapons
I think it’s quite ironic that we’re often accused of being dedicated personal fans of Putin, but most of the meltdowns we have ITT are a result of anons having literally zero capacity for scepticism towards Zelensky or the Ukrainian State, regurgitating their claims here and then getting incredulous that they’re able to be disputed.
>>2804090Imagine if Ukraine bombs the parade and a bunch of IDF die instead
>>2804112Zelensky tried to re-negotiate Minsk/UNSC 2202 in Ukraine's favor. Russia was not interested in a re-negotiation of what had already been settled and Ukrainian nationalists were not interested in any version of a Minsk-type settlement. Russia did not fail to follow any "deal". They maintained Ukraine had to comply with its obligations under Minsk/2202 and Ukraine didn't want to.
Ukraine had two choices after 2015: comply with the internationally arbitrated settlement of the conflict, or have a war with Russia. They chose the latter.
Russia gave Ukraine years to figure this out before taking action and gave Ukraine a way out of this conflict in March 2022 with minimal loss of life and minimal change to the original settlement Ukraine was already supposed to comply with anyway, but Biden and Zelensky decided they had Russia overextended and this was their opportunity so they opted for total war and killing millions.
Now Ukraine is losing and hoes are whining.
>>2804120because it's always 'all accusations are confessions' with these people
>>2804125no rebutal of the violation of the Minsk agreements? and they went and sold them weapons to them anyway?
got it.
mald, seethe, etc.
>>2804127The Minsk 1 settlement, the one that Russia hadn't followed? Pretty much the only thing Ukraine could have done to prevent an invasion was cede all of the LPR and DPR claimed land to Russia, after which the Ukrainian government would probably be replaced by ultra-Hitlers in reaction. The agreement to withdraw soldiers from LPR and DPR in return for fair elections was a step in the right direction but Ukraine is not solely at fault for the failure of that deal.
>>2804136Minsk II was the final arrangement, that was ratified by the UNSC (2202) and remained in place for years. What Ukraine had to do to avoid war with Russia was comply with it and stop attacking DNR/LPR. They chose war with Russia instead.
>>2804058Stop whitewashing Zelensky. His idea of "ending the war" was Russia magically giving everything up and Ukraine budging on nothing. He was never going to negotiate. Russians voted for him out of desperation because Poroshenko seemed even worse. Ironically today I think Poroshenko could have agreed to some kind of diplomatic resolution because he's a die-hard porky and not a narcissistic movie star
>>2804136To prevent invasion Ukraine could have federalized, but it was unacceptable to them because DPR/LPR voters would have blocked EU integration and pushed for closer ties to Russia. They chose to commit national suicide. C'est la vie
>2803946>nazigger poster is unironic hohol or russian gusanoconfirming what we all knew
>>2804136>the one that Russia hadn't followed?Russia was not responsible on anything on that agreement, lmao. the operative obligations sat on Kyiv and Donbas, because Russian couldn't enforce Kyev to withdraw their foreign troops or re-draw the constitution, something kyev never did.
silly goose, how can Russia be a party on an agreement if the Russian state wasn't at war.
if that were the case, the fact that the us, france and germany regimes stated they armed to the teeth ukraine, it would have made them equally responsible for the violation of Minsk, because france and germany signed the
Normandy Format (although the OSCE signed Minsk, and the OSCE decisions are 'POLITICALLY BINDING').
- Ukraine never obeyed Minsk agreements
- Ukraine started this war by doing the most laughable false flag, and attacking DPR
- The West forced Ukraine to continue the war, instead of signing peace
- Russia is only to blame for not standing by and letting DPR be genocided, i.e. they did a good thing
Neck yourselves, libshit historical revisionists, or it will be done for you.
>>2804174russia is to blame for funding ukraine by still pumping gas and oil through the country even years into the war. and russia is to blame for not killing the ukrainian government to force an end to the war. that proves it's just a bourg on bourg struggle
>>2804177Quiet, western troglodyte. Go look at Iran to see how well decapitation strikes work.
>>2804179the difference between iran and ukraine, is that ukraine isn't iran.
>>2804181You are incapable of naming any substantial difference, troglodyte.
All pressure to pursue this war comes from below Zelensky and his government.
>>2804174fact checked: true
If anything, Iran proved that ukraine will be used as a toiler paper for the west, no matter who sits on the presidential chair.
>>2804184Well, Iran is basically organized on leninist lines with an islamist flair, they have essentially an ideological party with multiple levels of cadre that can function when the leadership is beheaded and even turn them into inspiring martyrs. The US basically assumed it's a dictatorship kept together only by the figurehead and that was the reason for their spectacular failure.
Meanwhile Ukraine is actually just a Latam-style kleptocratic personalist dictatorship that would crumble into multiple oligarchical gangs if Zelensky is killed.
>>2804205>personalist dictatorship that would crumble into multiple oligarchical gangs if Zelensky is killed.and all of them would fall in line to whatever whims the US president has.
>>2804205>>280421070 years of US Nazifying Ukrainian nationalism succeeded. Zelensky is replaceable, and the replacement will be worse.
>>2804210>>2804211It's still worth a try and cucktinposters are somewhat right. Zelensky getting tried and hung for his crimes is the best outcome, but probably impossible or detached by many years today. Let's be real.
>>2804126True Dengism in practise
>>2804215>try>worthWho would win, 47 cruiser missiles or 1 janitor? Is this the meme you want NAFO to spam everywhere in case it doesn't work out?
>>2804222One missile launched at Zelensky's golden toilet palace would outweigh 1,000 nafo cope posts. I still somewhat understand Russia's restraint fetish, but it gets more and more unfounded with every day. The global South has already understood everything. It's time to at least obliterate Zelensky's surroundings.
>>2804152The DNR and LPR were attacking Ukraine and did so immediately after the first Minsk agreement was signed.
>>2804155Russia was unwilling to follow through on the deal, in this interview Davyd Arakhamiia states that Russia's proposal involved no security guarantees and was functionally just a "Pls trust us" handshake. They didn't buy it, because Russia had pulled this exact same shit a million times already.
>>2804158>His idea of "ending the war" was Russia magically giving everything up and Ukraine budging on nothingFalse and even if this were true Russia should have given everything up because their aims are retarded.
>but it was unacceptable to them because DPR/LPR voters would have blocked EU integration and pushed for closer ties to RussiaI do not believe for a second that Russia would have suddenly chose not to invade just because Ukraine federalized and Ukraine has no obligation to commit to closer ties with Russia, which is just economically worse for Ukraine, just because Russia will invade otherwise.
>>2804173Are you intentionally being retarded? Do you actually believe Russia had no involvement in the war in Donbas?
>>2804174>Ukraine never obeyed Minsk agreementsFalse
>Ukraine started this war by doing the most laughable false flag, and attacking DPREntirely made up
>The West forced Ukraine to continue the war, instead of signing peaceIf this were true then Trump would have already forced Ukraine to broker peace with Russia, which Russia likely isn't even interested in because they know they can win if they hold out long enough anyway.
>Russia is only to blame for not standing by and letting DPR be genocidedThe DPR was not a victim of genocide, that's nonsense
>>2804215I can only imagine there's something that goes to the grave with him if Russia did eliminate him, though what that could possibly be I couldn't say.
Like if he dies then he can be forgotten in a week by everyone now competing for the top job, whereas if he's coup'd, then they've got to make their reasons and whatever transpires from that may be demoralising to the point of undermining the entire Ukrainian state.
If I were thinking more cynically, I can only guess that Russia is waiting for Jewish leader with Jewish friends involved in rampant corruption scandals and sending a lot of non-Jewish people to their certain death, in a rather antisemitic society to end as you'd probably expect.
>>2804227>Entirely made uphttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/17/shelling-by-russian-backed-separatists-hits-school-in-east-ukraine>Shelling by Russian-backed separatists raises tensions in east Ukraine>Thu 17 Feb 2022If you believe for a fucking second DPR shelled a kindergarten, I want (you) dead, you stupid glowie fuck.
>>2804227>Are you intentionally being retarded? Do you actually believe Russia had no involvement in the war in Donbas?point to me in what part of the Minsk I, II agreements, where states that Russia is responsible of anything of the what the parties do, or stop doing.
>>2804132what good were minsk agreements really when everyone and their mother already knew russia is going to invade again anyway?
>>2804232>If you believe for a fucking second DPR shelled a kindergartenI think they probably did. I honestly don't know why you think they'd never do such a thing, I wouldn't be surprised if Ukraine did something like this to Russia either. Do you have any actual proof that Ukraine did it to themselves?
>>2804237The LPR and DPR were just extensions of Russia, Russia was actively fighting in Donbas for the seperatists. The agreements did not have to mention Russia by name for them to be expected to abide by the stipulations.
>>2804239If NATO wanted Ukraine in, but territorial disputes were preventing that, why would you assume the arming of Ukraine by NATO was to any other end than resolving the dispute by force?
>>2804242Because Russia invaded, thereby proving that the actual reason for arming Ukraine was precisely that
>>2804241>Do you have any actual proof that Ukraine did it to themselves?Proof? Will there be a trial? Do you want a peer reviewed study, too, idiot? Fuck your "reasonable doubt" bullshit.
No non-dumbfuck looked at any of the photos provided by Ukraine and thought "that looks like an artillery shell explosion", like they claimed.
If any non-western-aligned country did what Ukraine did to DPR/LPR, they would have been sanctioned by everyone.
>>2804242nato never wanted ukraine joining
ukraine did not want nato before invasion of crimea
the problem as always is russia
>>2804245transnistria is a russian backed bantustan broken off moldoa, moldova is not sanctioned by anyone
abkhasia ia a russian backed bantustan broken off georgia, georgia was not sanctioned by anyone as of 2008
>>2804249oh noes you got me right in the feels there little buddy
>>2804244I don't get why Ukraine would need a false flag to justify defending against an invasion launched by Russia
>>2804245What exactly did Ukraine do to the DPR and LPR that was out of the ordinary for a modern war?
>>2804243That's not really how proof works.
>>2804246Right, they wanted Estonia but not Ukraine.
>>2804250both modova and georgia are western approved buddy, otherwise they would be sanctioned of course
>>2804256>We're arming Ukraine because Russia will probably invade<NUH UH WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT THEY'RE ARMING UKRAINE TO INVADE US!!!If you do this for like a year and then invade then in what world did you not prove their point?
>>2804261are you a communist or just a jewish nigger? this is a leftist board
>>2804262since when does leftism equal simping for russia?
>>2804261Because you could argue that arming Ukraine in preparation for an invasion is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If NATO starts arming Russia's neighbour to the teeth, that in of itself is a threat to Russia that could warrant action.
The particular form of retardation you have is thinking weapons can be solely defensive because someone said it's defensive, when in reality bullets aren't so concerned about why they were fired.
Also
>like a yearyeah you know you're playing it fast and loose with that "like".
>>2804254>I don't get why Ukraine would need a false flag to justify defending against an invasion launched by Russialol
lmao
They needed a false flag to attack DPR, and got cucked out of genocide by Russia. Sucks to suck.
>>2804265every neighbour of russia needs to be armed as russia is essentially the current incarnation of the eternal steppe horde
the particular narrative you push about russia invading everyone it can because it only wants peace is hilarious in it's endless cynicism
>>2804270Right and we know why NATO states are good judges of what a serial invader looks like.
>>2804265the west wanted a proxy conflict between ukraine and russia. flooding arms into ukraine over years was part of the process. it empowers the hardliners to say we don't have to comply with anything (minsk) or compromise on anything, which inevitably leads to conflict.
obama started it with the coup, trump escalated it with "lethal aid" and biden escalated it again, leading to the desired result.
>>2804271shameless whataboutism
>>2804272>the west wanted a proxy conflict between ukraine and russiafor what purpose?
>>2804270 the only thing bandera did right is slaughtering your """[peoplle]""""
>>2804033hey, firepoint flew one jew and billions of euros to israel. isn't that what truly counts?
>>2804275Shameless misuse of the term "whataboutism"
Nevertheless, if you want a different answer I can say the NATO states that were arming Ukraine to the teeth know what that looks like, they understood during the Cuban Missile Crisis that "defensive" isn't a guarantee.
So if they're arming Ukraine then they know that if Russia retaliates first, resident retard will shout proof that the supplies were defensive, if Ukraine moves on the DPR/LPR first then resident retard will shout that it's Russia's fault for not seeing the obvious plan being carried out.
>>2804284Fuck sovereignty of NATO states.
>>2804276https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR3000/RR3063/RAND_RR3063.pdfto isolate and overextend russia with the goal of its political collapse, while other people (ukrainians) do the dying for them.
>>2804265Because the idea that Ukraine would just invade Russia outside of the context of the invasion of Ukraine (And I didn't even support the Kursk incursion) is insane and you're never going to convince me otherwise. If Ukraine decided to invade the Donbas and Crimea in February of 2022 they'd get crushed instantly and their international support would be so weak that there's little chance of them getting the same kind of bail out they got IRL.
>>2804268If I were Russia I would 100% allow Ukraine to invade the DPR because I could instantly crush it and easily frame myself as the defender. Ukraine would take maybe one or two towns before their front lines collapse. And no, there would be no genocide.
>>2804058>Zelenskyy had no intention of committing some kind of Russian genocidethe man literally couldnt control the army when he tried to make it back down, which was run by mi6/cia backed banderist with a hard on for torturing and bombing russian speaking civilians, and he quickly folded up realizing he risked actually getting killed while he could just take the money and accept to sacrifice his country for the greater nato reich
>no the civilian casualties in the Donbas war do not countlol why not? because thats inconvenient to your narrative? not that I think there was a genocide in motion (the word is used way too liberally these days), but there was definitely enthusiastic war crimes and bloody internal repression from the ukronazis
>both Ukrainian militias and the Russian government were to blame for thisukraine never even vaguely tried to upheld its end of the bargain, while russia and the donbass independentist did, which you would know if you had bothered actually researching the issue. Multiple western leaders literally bragged about bamboozling russia with fake deals while preparing ukraine, russia was happy to just keep everything frozen or to get minsk implemented, they were fine with both, but thats not what the west had in mind.
>this war has been an absolute fucking tragedy thats all wars
>Russia ultimately started itnah the maidan coup started it
>None of the problems that existed in Ukraine could have ever been bad enough to justify the waraccording to who? you? Yeah I bet you're fine with a nazi run ethnostate selling everything to western corporations while oppressing the russian speaking part of its population and setting up a launchpad for the empire aggressions against russia. But you can prolly understand why russian state wasnt too keen on it.
>which has killed far more people than any continued seperatist-nationalist clashes <yeah at worst they just would have slaughtered the "separatists", that would be less death so optimal solution reallyyeah the onus wasnt on ukraine to just stand down or stay neutral, its russia that should let its border become a nato nazi colony proudly declaring it will try to fuck with them with the help of the west armies and its various intelligence agencies
bothsideists are just natoid too ashamed to admit it
>>2804288Good thing you're not in charge of Russia, idiot.
>m-muh defensive war mufugaA western idiot, no less.
>>2804287other than the states in eastern europe >the west was perfectly content with russia. it's no competitor neither economically nor militarily so all >the west wanted to do with russia was buy it's resources, sell it technology and marvel at snowmonkeys.
>>2804288>If Ukraine decided to invade the Donbas and Crimea in February of 2022 thats literally what they would have done had russia not attacked, all infos pointed to preparation for it, without russian army intervening crimea and donbass would have been fucked
>muh international supportall the west sanctioned russia for crimea and backed ukraine taking it back
>If I were Russia I would 100% allow Ukraine to invade the DPR because I could instantly crush it and easily frame myself as the defenderthats literally what they did, but you dont even know it because you inform yourself with westoid news
Why the fuck are Russia and the West even in conflict in the first place? Iran has its opposition to Israel and desire for a Middle East free of Western destabilization, China has a competing system of Capitalism that stands against the West's, what the fuck is Russia's problem? What would change for them if they became a Western-aligned state like the rest of Eastern Europe? Nothing would even have to change other than not invading their neighbors, is it truly just because the only way the Russian bourgeoisie can stay in power is if the population is united behind them against the West?
>>2804288>If Ukraine decided to invade the Donbas and Crimea in February of 2022 they'd get crushed instantly and their international support would be so weak that there's little chance of them getting the same kind of bail out they got IRL.This is just a bizarre thing to claim when you consider what support Israel gets "reluctantly" in Palestine, and that NATO states fully supported the narrative that there wasn't a separatist movement in Novorossiya but just a covert Russian invasion.
>>2804295>What would change for them if they became a Western-aligned state like the rest of Eastern Europeyou're an hilariously ignorant moron. Russia tried, the west didnt want it, they want to balkanize and loot them, not integrate them. Putin really wanted to be part of the west, he tried playing nice first. And got fucked for it.
Thats why its funny, putin is anti imperialist despite himself, the west forced him to fight the empire, he wanted to cooperate with it.
>>2804295Russia has been trying for decades to become another cucked country to America, but they don't want them. Now they are all whiny and bitchy because they have to sit at the table with the Africans and Asians.
>>2804295russians have an existential need to ooga booga apparently
>>2804305Well I'm glad at least you've (whomever you are) accepted that weapon supplies are "defensive" or "offensive" purely based on narrative rather than practical reality.
>>2804288that is seriously foolish. first, if ukraine invaded donbas, russia would have to invade ukraine to stop them. that would require massing sizeable forces on the border ready to go in (this was called aggressive intent when russia did it, justifying further ukrainian build up), or the place would be swept before russia got there.
second, ukraine would not "get crushed instantly". we know this because they didn't get crushed instantly when russia went in. ukraine had large numbers in the area and that same force would have been invading donbas and would have had the initiative, with russia trying to catch up. this was the main problem russia was facing at the time, ukraine had built up so much that they could run over dnr/lrn unless russia intervened.
third, this is all about conceptual framing for you. "whoever makes a big move first is le bad guy", but the west would have justified and rationalized a ukrainian incursion into donbas, called it limited and necessary and blamed it on russian mischief and framed russia's response as aggression. the west would have also been ok with russia going into donbas and even ukraine getting repelled. then they could still sanction russia for "invading and occupying ukraine" and ukraine could now spend the next months/years shelling the russian military in addition to donbas civilians.
the conflict was made inevitable by ukraine's refusal to abandon the goal of taking donbas (and eventually crimea) back under kiev by force. once a conflict is inevitable it doesn't matter who crosses which border first. that just becomes an optics and perception management game and i don't care about that
>the west was perfectly content with russiano it wasn't. russia was thwarting their designs in syria and elsewhere, and they wanted to split russia and china. biden demanded this of russia in late 2021 and russia refused. so biden decided he had to do it "the hard way" (with ukraine proxy war).
>>2804313syria was starving, assad's days were counted
china does not perceive russia any more favorably than the west does and in fact continues the same policy towards it the west had pre 2022
>>2804295The West is in conflict with any country that maintains an independent economic and foreign policy. Russia is one such country and a big one.
Russian policy has been often (not always) at odds with the West. It has opposed or thwarted their designs in places like Syria, Iran, Belarus, Georgia and beyond. That is unacceptable.
Furthermore, it is an important ally of China that threatens to help thwart their designs to contain or defeat China. Also unacceptable. To get to China they have to either defeat/topple Russia or split it away from China.
>>2804300But the West didn't balkanize and loot Poland or Romania or Bulgaria or any of the other Eastern Bloc states. Why specifically Russia? And Russia is basically doing all of the economic liberalism nonsense to itself already, just like the other Eastern Bloc states, so that can't be the goal with Russia either.
>>2804316china perceives russia as its most important ally. they complete each other. china is a huge economic/industrial power but with limited natural resources. russia is a natural resource behemeth but with limited economic/industrial power.
If russia abandons china or is forced to, china would be much more vulnerable to the west's containment strategies.
together they stand, divided they fall.
>>2804281You will never be a real Russian. You have no history, you have no dacha, you have no pelmeni. You are a homosexual yanqui twisted by telegram and RT into a crude mockery of Russian nationalism.
All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your parents are disgusted and ashamed of you, your “friends” laugh at your ghoulish appearance behind closed doors.
Slavs are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of mongol rape have allowed Russians to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even yanquis who “pass” sound uncanny and unnatural to a Russian. Your accent is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a drunk Russian home with you, he’ll turn tail and bolt the second he gets a whiff of your diseased, online anglophone mind.
You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.
Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your parents will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you with a headstone marked with your birth name, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know a yanqui is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a skeleton that is unmistakably Anglo.
This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.
>>2804329yeah it's an important ally the same way congo, ghana and birma are important allies of china
>>2804327>>2804332are you guys stupid? russia is china's top oil supplier and its leading supplier of many other natural resources, while the us is engaged in a global project to squeeze energy resources.
russia is essential for china.
>>2804334china is a manufacturing country. it needs resource base, sure but most of all it needs developed markets to sell it's manufacture to.
resource bases rely on selling resources unless there's a limited supply or even exclusivity it's a buyers market.
consider the power structure.
>>2804331I think you might be getting your flags mixed up, Ushanka is Russian. I'm the anglo one and it's me who usually incurs this kind of typed wrath from mindbroken losers.
>>2804336it needs natural resources to do the manufacture in the first place. if russia was ever cut off from china, china would be in deep doo-doo. they've become much more vulnerable to western blockade and other strategies.
>>2804241>The Ukraine was just extensions of Russia>The agreements did not have to mention nato by name for them to be expected to abide by the stipulations.see how easy is play dumb games?
>>2804714Good news that Russia has lost ground. Russia should immediately withdraw from all of Ukraine and allow Ukraine to make its own democratic choices, within international law.
>>2804667>probably launched by Ukraine against targets in RussiaThey already know they have a blank check with this. They have been peppering the Baltics, Belarus and Finland with drones with some regularity for months now and no real negative reaction from their funders. They just test the water and hope that "Russia did it" would stick, because they now know they can only win big by doing this and the worst case for Ukraine is a nothingburger and western media covering for them.
>>2804726>CrimeaI hope the people of Crimea get to have a democratic future one day. It's pretty tragic that Russia launched an imperialist invasion of Crimea, stripping them of their democracy.
>What happens if a democratic choice is not within "international law"?The reason I mentioned international law is because I don't want to support a situation where a country votes to nuke and murder another country for example. I hope that choices which break international law, even if they are democratic choices, would be prevented. Leaders who try to carry out such actions should be tried in the International Criminal Court or something similar.
>>2804667>oil storage in LatviaGot a theory, they’re using AI to make the drones more autonomous. It makes sense why the drone hit the correct category of target, just in the wrong country.
>>2804749How would you classify oil storage from any other large metal vat, round building or silo? The things are hardly uniform in shape and size. Especially if the drone can't be sure where it actually is because gps is unreliable.
>>2804757Image recognition is something that’s been developed for even longer than LLM chatbots have, I think with enough training data you could probably distinguish between oil storage and a silo.
That being said, the problem Ukraine have to solve for their drones is that GPS gets scrambled by electronic warfare so precision within Russia is difficult. Frankly it doesn’t really matter whether it can correctly distinguish between an oil facility or any other kind of industrial plant, the drone hitting anything that remotely looks big and metallic is an improvement over crashing in a field or a lake as was frequently seen previously.
I’m guessing that in Latvia the AI target detection mode was accidentally enabled too soon, I expect that’s probably automatic when the drone loses Cellular/Starlink connection which can be assumed to be when it’s crossed deep enough into Russian airspace, but as anyone with a phone can tell, that’s far from guaranteed to be the case.
However, there’s always a trade off and in this case it’s AI needing a lot more processing power and memory than a “plot the course and follow it via GPS” navigation system would. That will significantly increase the cost of drones (especially during the on going shortage of such memory chips), which can in turn be off set by its greater accuracy doing more damage per drone, but nevertheless drone tactics are still dependent on saturation and a lot of that AI hardware is going to get shot down before AI target acquisition becomes a factor.
>>2804714>Ukrainian attack kills 5>in annexed Crimea>as Russia is accused of violating a ceasefireSomebody, tore off that journo's fingers and that editor's whole braincage
>>2804114Poor Russians, they got cheated.
>So if they're arming Ukraine then they know that if Russia retaliates first, resident retard will shout proof that the supplies were defensive, if Ukraine moves on the DPR/LPR first then resident retard will shout that it's Russia's fault for not seeing the obvious plan being carried out.>>2804816ding! ding! ding!
Thinking it’s quite funny that Zelensky started this current hypetrain by talking big about controlling Moscow’s airspace and it being up to him personally whether the victory parade can go ahead because he’s got the Russians scared, to then backtrack into calling a sudden ceasefire that Russia broke before it was already in place and that’s given Zelensky justification to attack the parade but also he hasn’t made that decision yet anyway.
Like why the sudden necessity for justification à la zrada and now framing the threats on Kiev to be unwarranted because Zelensky was only boasting about possibilities?
>No you see Russians are Asiatic mongrels only capable of building a despotic empire and Ukrainians are inherently democratic Huwhite Areeanz who'd build TRUE ACTUAL COMMUNISM within a generation if the Muscovites would just leave them alone! Ukraine should democratically cleans all the crypto ziggers so they don't stand in the way of glorious Ukrainian communist nation state! Russians want to subjugate UkrARYANS again because they're an oppressed minority just like in USSR and also Third Reich!
Powerful. This finally convinced me to heil Zelya and send money to nationalist militias, what about you guys?
>>2804322those are weak and poor countries that already were wide opened to west europe capital, exporting their workers and offering their resources, and basically occupied by nato
russia was big, developed, and powerful enough (especially militarily) to be a competitor, very rich in raw materials that were still under state control (thats putin doing btw, hes fine with capital exploiting russia, but only russian capital is allowed to get rich on their raw resources like oil while still giving a good share to the state. Thats why he is a "bonapartist" figure that stopped the full looting of the country yet still satisfied national porkies unlike yeltsin the cia puppet)
The west empire doesnt want anyone able to challenge them, and really want to loot the raw resources of russia at congo tier prices. And also want to control it to deny it to china. All things that require russia destruction and balkanization.
>>2805556>gay porn with hatseven with our class, national and ideological differences, we are still all the same at heart ❤️
>>2805055>russia was big, developed, and powerfullmao when?
>>2806074Why does Germany's $6.18Tn GDP PPP afford such a better standard of living than India's $17.37Tn GDP PPP?
>>2806086Germany: 84 million people
India: 1.5 billion people
>>2806098why does germany's 6.18 afford such a better standard than russia's 7.13?
>>2806131…does it?
but anyway, russia has almost twice the number of people but not twice the gdp/ppp so the average standard of living would tend to be lower to some degree.
and the german standard of living is declining and only going to crater in the coming months/years as fuel shortages and austerity measures to pay for "re-armament" come down like a ton of bricks on the proles.
>>2806131>why does germany's 6.18 afford such a better standard than russia's 7.13?Because Russia is a 100 times bigger than Germany.
>>2806135>>does it?Yes it does you fucking westoid retard
Anecdotal and from an inter-rail backpacking trip around Europe 10 years ago, but Frankfurt was the first time in my life I saw multiple people shooting heroin and smoking crack in public, in the subways around the Hauptbahnhof. It’s also the only place I came across tourist scams (I.e my female friend likes you and wants you to come in for a drink). It was very clean in the financial district thoughbeit.
I’m afraid that’s as exciting as my backpacking trip got though, unlike not-grillpill I’m not an outgoing person so I didn’t party with a drug addict nor did I fuck the scam artist.
>>2806184That's Warsaw. Nice try.
>>2806196>inter-rail backpacking trip Good thing you were only in charge of reconnaissance and not the one actually tasked to sabotage the railways. I'm sure your co-workers envy you (they're all sitting in CIA black sites).
Russia collapse status?
>>2806204no town in poland looks anything like that, even the desolate ones
>>2806135>>2806158so russia is big, powerful and developed except it is neither powerful nor developed
what a waste of time
in future perhaps concede at this point
>>2805927 >>2806340If Russia is poor then Ukraine is even poorer.
Also since 2014 every Ukrainian economic indicator has gotten worse.
Pro-West Ukraine government = Ukrainians die and live worse than before. This is always true.
>>2806378>If Russia is poor then Ukraine is even poorer.is anyone disproving this fact?
>Pro-West Ukraine government = Ukrainians die and live worse than before. This is always true.we've been over this - they're going to lap you after the war (unless they blow rebuilding funds on yahchts and gypsy palaces)
the only thing keeping cis (an former-cis) states back in development is russia which needs them to be even poorer and less developed so it can project power over them
>>2806385Retard the IMF and Germany wouldn't even rebuild Greece, an actual EU and NATO member, and you think they'll rebuild Ukraine?
>>2806549NEVER ask a pro-Ukrainian what’s in his images folder
>>2806385the only time they had any kind of development of west over east was because the western europe was deliberately buying off population long enough to stave off communist revolts you fucking retard
what's the incentive now?
>>2806568the more western capital get involved the more involved western countries get the next time russia goes ooga booga
unless you were asking for the incentive from the other side then it's even more straightforward: rebuilding is great business
a lot of money to be made, a lot of credit to be given
Trump said in a Truth Social post that the pause will include a suspension of all kinetic activity, and also a prison swap of 1,000 prisoners from each country.
"Hopefully, it is the beginning of the end of a very long, deadly, and hard fought War," he said, adding that there was constant progress in talks to end the conflict.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/trump-announces-three-day-ceasefire-between-ukraine-russia-2026-05-08/>12,000 prisoners are now serving in Ukraine's armed forces.
>Commander Validol: "Our expectations were fully justified because we selected not quantity but quality. The hardest part was forging this diverse group of people into a single team.">Commander "Validol," a 47-year-old lieutenant colonel, was put in charge of the new battalion. >He named it "Alcatraz" — after the famous American prison from which no one could escape. His goal was to build a unit nobody would want to escape from>former convicts serving in Ukraine's army do not have equal rights with other soldiers. >They cannot take leave — not annual leave, not after captivity, and even after being wounded they can only recover in a hospital. They cannot be promoted in rank and cannot transfer to non-combat roles.>180 women who left prison by signing military contracts must continue serving while pregnant and after giving birth. >Even after dying in combat, a soldier with an uncleared conviction can be denied burial at the National Memorial Cemetery.look at the krauts trying to glorify this shit, lmao.
https://www.dw.com/uk/umovno-zvilneni-bezumovno-bezpravni-aka-dola-kolisnih-vazniv-u-zsu/a-76977242 I knew he’d puss out lmao
I have decided to let the sun rise tomorrow.
>>2806653in any case, I bet there will be attacks on Moscow. he will deny it.
>>2806671Possibly, I've seen people online calling him a traitor for announcing the snap ceasefire (to invalidate Russia's ceasefire when they obviously don't comply) a couple of days ago, "choosing" to let Russia have its victory parade, "choosing" to agree to Russia's ceasefire, "choosing" to extend it further to May 11th is bound to piss someone off in the chain of command and/or pressure Zelensky to do it any way to prove the power he boasted of.
Peskov has a permanent smirk, I don't think I've ever seen any other facial expression on him.
This is surely sus for Russians?
>>2806184See buildings in the back? Guess how thick the walls are, and how much heat it takes to keep them warm during the winter. Add to this agricultural problems arising from climate conditions, add to that river density, add to that population density. You retard.
And even still, Russian quality of life is comparable to the West.
Also, it was like 10 years already since Russia's jokes about bad roads ended. Now, potholes memes are coming mainly from USA and Europe, lmao
>>2806810Peskov has a permanent smirk because he's being paid a lot to say retarded shit that monke comes up with and he always has a hard time keeping a straight face when voicing a threat that he knows will never be carried out
>>2807268That’s intentionally avoided previously because the disparity between the rich and poor in the west has been not only sharply growing, but even becoming presented as a political mission to stay that course.
Like previously the Russian Oligarch angle depended on the masses being left with absolutely nish in the aftermath of the USSR’s illegal dissolution, while the few got to own really gauche Rolexes and yachts in the French Riviera bought by selling oil. But that’s basically still where the Russian oligarchy tops out while prole living standards have massively improved since the 90s.
The comparison just doesn’t carry the same weight when next to American society where its oligarchy is openly presenting itself as a key factor in global events and suggests they’re saving humanity by using their vast wealth for the colonisation of other planets as a personal enterprise, while their employees need second jobs to afford the car required to travel to their first jobs.
Basically “partying like a Russian” is still cringe, but presenting your vast personal wealth as justified by unironically claiming it makes you a great man capable of changing the course of human history according to whatever you think is “neat” is just flat out madness.
>>2807128>And even still, Russian quality of life is comparable to the West.dyrbi?
>>2807436What, you don't think so? Like, why?
>>2807446median wage of $500
>>2807432Ura to that good buddy
i know for a fact that at median $1500 life in poland is not terrible but it's not as nice as western europeans enjoy so if you're going to try to argue wage doesn't matter because you buy food and pay amenities in roubles spare me - the bigger share of food and amenities in your expenses the lower your qol is.
>>2807448Do you think Russian goods cost American prices???
>>2807468do they pay ppp for electronics? when they go for holiday do they pay by ppp?
if you're limited to domestic goods, domestic holiday, domestic everything you're not living a quality of life comparable to the west
>>2807470>muh pay for electronics in PPPYou think that Russians subsist on electronics or something? Dude, you know how much Russians spend on rent?
Trying to measure quality of life (especially via bourg metrics) is a fool's errand tbh. I don't think it's possible to quantify what a life well lived is or everything that can facilitate that or impede it.
But then that's probably why people try to via cherry picking images and being like "lmao u want to live there huh?". Or specific to Russia, when westoids post pictures of dirt roads in Russia and say "lmao this is what their soldiers are dying for huh?", well, evidently yes.
>>2807471But what country is totally limited to products and services that are 100% domestic? This si like a western liberals fever dream of what life in the DPRK is like.
>>2807483>we have the same quality of life except for the shit we can't afford>>2807497>>China is worse than most of Europedoes anyone actually doubt this? have you ever seen any china outside t1 cities shot for instagram?
>>2807504that is exactly my point: everyone pays the same price for imported items, electronics and new cars
you can buy used cars, you can buy chinese cars and electronics if you do don't claim to be living on qol comparable to the west because it's not
>>2807514>have you ever seen any china outside t1 cities shot for instagram?Why is this a rule for China but not anywhere else? Even the “nice” suburbs in the US are the suburbs of major cities, everywhere else ranges from “meh” to “oof”.
>>2807544he has a point. obviously they still matter but we are moving from 'rich and poor countries' of the 20th century to a model where each country will have a poor majority and a rich minority.
>>2807514>does anyone actually doubt this? have you ever seen any china outside t1 cities shot for instagram?Idk, even the tier 3 cities look space age compared to American 1st tier.
>>2807544No, he is right.
>>2807552because oof in america is still better than oof elsewhere, because blue collars get to live in suburbias which are not available for a blue collar outside the west
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Plan-1265_Pivot-Pointe_788-N-Tessa-Ave_Meridian_ID_83642_P417001004221this house in bumfuck, america costs <5 years of median wages in idaho
how many years would you have to work to buy a 120m^3 house where you live? for me the answer is >8. an american can pay off two houses in that time.
you as in median yearly wage where you live, i don't care to hear whether you're the sultan of brunei
>>2807648Yeah your country's government and bourgeois are stupid and lost the empire game, that's why you can't buy a proper house
>>2807656do you want *me* to check how much a similar quality similar area singe house in bumfuck russia china or anywhere else costs and how many regional average median wages that is? it's not going to be less than 5 i can already call it
>>2807648I'd say that's more meh than oof, oof is probably more like pic related and I'm sure the sq/m per dollar is still higher than anywhere in China or Russia.
The place you've picked isn't in bumfuck, America, it's a suburb of of Idaho's capital city Boise. It's so meh it's even called Meh-ridian.
>>2807740meanwhile ivan of tver is russian slang for an average russian so i picked perfectly
>>2807747Well not really because you tried to pass off a suburb community of a state capital as "bumfuck, America" and example of "oof" in the US.
>>2807759not much difference
next time you hear americans complain about anything bear in mind they're retarded and live on easy mode
>>2804716Ok King Lear
>>2804714>Moscow Times >>2804295Originally its because Russia didn't bend a knee to the catholic church, then it became a matter of resources, and then a matter of ideology and cultural opposition.
>>2804295You could be a good faith person and look at what Russian liberals (that includes pro-maidan people, Ukraine is just Epsteinite Russia) have been saying since the start of the 2000s. But you won't because you fundamentally don't take this issue seriously.
>>2807997MOSCOW, May 9 (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Saturday that he thought the Ukraine war was coming to an end, remarks that came just hours after he had vowed victory in Ukraine at Moscow's most scaled-back Victory Day parade in years.
"I think that the matter is coming to an end," Putin told reporters of the Russia-Ukraine war, Europe's deadliest conflict since World War Two. He also said he would be willing to negotiate new security arrangements for Europe, and that his preferred negotiating partner would be Germany's former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-he-thinks-ukraine-conflict-is-coming-an-end-2026-05-09/ >>2807997Ukraine collapsed, nazis are dead or in jail, Russia is now safe. All aims checked
>>2808002>He also said he would be willing to negotiate new security arrangements for Europe, and that his preferred negotiating partner would be Germany's former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.similarly i am willing to discuss universal liberation from the material prison and my negotiating partners of choice are also my drinking buddies
Why doesn't China just send like a million missiles and drones to Russia?
>>2808118>The longer the war goes on, the better for China's ruling class.The Chinese proletariat?
>>2808061China is protecting Belarus from Russia's revanchist imperialist ideology. If Russia succesfully takes over Ukraine they'll turn to Belarus next and China wants Luka to survive.
Cucktin says the war is nearly over so he's throwing in the towel. GG. 4+ years of /ukr/ threads and no war goals were accomplished. Prigozhin should have couped this cuck.
>>2808188don't think that's what that means
>>2808261>potatos<treatsTreatlerite regimes' proles think that food is a luxury :DDD
>>2808292proles shop at tesco
do you want me to count how many kg of spuds can a brit prole afford compared to a russian one or is yesterday's embarrassment enough?
>>2808356Ridiculous comparison because UK utilities are privatized and absolutely rape their workers to death. There is no data comparing actual cost of living because the West don't want their people to find out how poorly they are treated. India has higher GDP PPP than Russia but anyone who wants to live in India over Russia is mentally retarded and anyone who thinks India is richer than Russia is also stupid.
>>2808261Rent/loan and utilities take 70% of your paycheck in the west after taxes. The rest you have to split between food, clothes, travel and whatever you have left is for saving or for your actual treats. While you earn 1/4 in Nigeria, but you have no inflated housing market and much lower taxes. You have now achieved abysmal rate in terms of Engel's law, while achieving only marginally lower standard of living.
>>2808371it's almost as if gpd ppp isn't meant to benchmark quality of life between countries, crazy.
>>2808376inhabitants of nigeria as well as inhabitants of all developing and underdeveloped countries face systemic difficulties people in first world don't. if the only difference between them was rent prices/property taxes people would move from 1st - to 3rd world not the other way around
>>2808315>how many kg of spuds can a brit prole afford compared to a russian oneBefore or after rent, lmao? Imagine having so much internalized racism that you deny the obvious
>>2808318>1.5 kg for 1.80vs
<25 kg for 14.99Tesco, you say?
>>2808391>zey come to ze garden, zis means garden iz better and more civilized!When your argument is indistinguishable from Asmongold, you should go to a shower and clean up your room before having an opinion on anything
as a matter of fact i'm pretty sure i can throw in a lease on a family car, a gym membership and a couple beers every weekend and it's still going to be more
>>2808525Meanwhile, Russians keep accumulating savings, despite the war and everything.
>>2808526Yeah buddy, statistics say that you people have been consuming your safety nets since before covid like crazy…
>Russia is an oligarch controlled shithole so british workers aren't proles
Why are ziggoids like this?
>>2808533No more oligarch controlled than the West, actually. You don't get to claim to have less corruption by legalizing it as lobbying, lol
>>2808530>25% of brits having less than 200 punds saved>60% of russians have some sort of savingsstill means 15% more of russians compared to bongs do not have any savings at all
mean savings in bongland is 19 000 gbp which is almost exactly 1 900 000 rub. feel free to gloat when half of russians have more money saved
or at least 807 500 rub by ppp (potato purchasing parity)
19000/1.2*51
>>2804242>>2804246yeah
totally NATO expanded 14 times but definitely doesn't want ukraine, its rich soil, and its trillions of dollars of minerals that lindsey graham keeps drooling over
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