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>>2796324Victory day post mortem edition
Evidence of the influence and origin of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine
https://archive.ph/44B9Qhttps://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323637https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323658https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323663https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323688https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323729https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323733https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323731https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323735https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323740https://azovlobby.substack.com/https://banderalobby.substack.com/—————————————————–
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>Video Essays / Historical Background📺 • Ukraine: The Avoidable War - Boy Boy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8📺 • Ukraine's Nazi Problem - The Marxist Project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yZvWAwU5W4📺 • America, Russia, and Ukraine's Far Right - Gravel Institute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0pyVJG7_6Q📺 • The Nature of Putin's Russia and Its Causes (3-Part Series) - 1Dime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8d6Vzi7zYghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zODWTfMwFGwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zuygh9Mzuo
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Why did mods remove my post when I said as an Iraqi worker the death of Ukrainian proles doesn't bring me any joy? Is internationalism haram in this shithole?
>>2808629Communism is famously banned on leftypol, yes
>>2808633It could be interpreted as third worldism too since Ukraine is post-2003 Iraq tier shithole
>>2808698looks fragile af
>>2808704And that should matter, why? it's a robot.
>>2808731Because it wont be working after a few rounds…
>looks at the last thread
Interesting thing about poles is that they consider themselves as pure evropeans that have ascended and left asiatic Ruzzia far behind, yet they spend every second of their day thinking about Russia and memorizing its GDP to the last decimal. They reproduce the exact same memes as Russian liberals do like "can you buy a GPU for PPP?" which shows that instead of hanging out with Western Europeans they are still deeply immersed in Russian/CIS discourse looking for every little straw that could make them feel superior
Meanwhile I don't even think about Poland or what life there is like beyond general geopolitical knowledge and distaste for their anticommunism, and the only polish meme I really know is bobr kurwa
It's a curious phenomenon
>>2808787have you considered it might be a valid argument against the >superpower by ppp crowd?
i also assure you the average pole doesn't know anything about russia and associates it with alcoholism, polar bears and communism
>>2808629>Iraqi worker>Ukrainian proles <ACTUALLY, the Jamba Juice workers in the World Child Trade Center weren't wilful collaborators with World Trade from the finance imperialist pedo cabal. No one could have possibly known that the temple to globalism would be like that! None of Jeffrey Epstein's private island workers could have known what happened to all those teens who were sent into the satanic altar of capital and never came out.Notice how the 'class analysis' of vulgar Marxoids never mentions what their job is (holocaust factory)
>>2808832yeah man i'm sure the median ukrainian who does plumbing was really just a plumber at the genocide factory
>>2808829Dude, you have a shrinking population, young population runs away from your growing GDP paradise. Besides, it's fucking obviously oxymoronic that a country without industries can have a growing economy. Like, you know that Ukraine GDP-wise grew more in 1990s than USSR did with a "forced" industrialization? Like, Stalin only managed something like 3x growth, according to GDP figures, while Ukraine had managed 7x (!!!). This is such a profoundly retarded idea to conflate GDP with the real economy
Also, Eastoid new-porky states used GDP nonsense to prove to their populations that they are now better off than under communism, lol, when in fact they got robbed blind, and their economic and political rule had resulted in depopulation that only comparable to Nazi genocide in scale
Gee, let's compare GDP growth map since 1990s for baltic states and Poland to depopulation map
Oh, right, I forgot! GDP is such a good metric that Euroids cope with per capita, lol, making it so porky capital counts towards prole's wellbeing, lololol
>>2808897Oh, and Russia is more or less the same. Europe didn't give you anything, capitalism was a failure, last 35 years you were subsisting on remnants of Soviet and Eastern Bloc's industries.
From whatever side you look, GDP is a fake metric. PPP as well, but to a lesser degree, because GDP is merely a modifier arbitrarily multiplied with nominal GDP.
>>2808897> a country without industriescheck out poland's export map
>to prove to their populations that they are now better off than under communism, lol, when in fact they got robbed blindwe do in every single aspect from crime to unemployment rate to life expectancy to infant mortality
>>2808901your gdp rate map is nonsense.
polish economy was $65.98 billion in 1990 now it's $1.13 trillion good luck making that 2% annually.
at this point you're either posting this trash to bait me to replay or are clinically deluded
>>2808787It's so dumb. I have no issue with Poland. Just don't be aggressive and don't do what the CIA says, that's everything we ever wanted from them. Poland didn't even have a collectivized agriculture because the Soviet Union let them do their thing.
>>2808941>we do in every single aspect from crime to unemployment rate to life expectancy to infant mortalityIf you are having a great time, then good, go have a great time. If your point is to dunk on Russians or to shill for EU, then the same things happened here. The bourgeois order stabilized. That doesn't mean it's not an atrocity or that GDP is a good metric.
Most westerners say that things are not great and I'll take their word over yours on the merits of the system they invented and practiced longer than everyone else.
Are we still talking about bloody McMansions?
You can tell the war is going great for both sides when 95% of the discussion is about irrelevant shit
>>2808997NAH fuck the polaks. daddy stalin hated them so i will too. plus the majority of them are so fucking right wing. they have a 99% ethnic homogeneous society and they still complain like the west has fallen if even a couple ukriggers claim asylum
>>2808997>It's so dumb. I have no issue with Poland. Just don't be aggressive and don't do what the CIA says, that's everything we ever wanted from themPoland should be like Yugoslavia or at minimum be like Cold War Finland
>>2809030But we don't live in a world where you can avoid imperialist blocs without major consequences innit
>>2808997>Poland didn't even have a collectivized agriculture becausepoles fought against it, gomulka himself spent three years in jail over it, it's not a kindness of the soviet occupant.
>If your point is to dunk on Russians or to shill for EU, then the same things happened here.my point is to straighten you out when you when you post cope like >quality of life in russia is comaparable to the west, just don't think about it
>Most westerners say that things are not greatnot so great in relation what they're used to, not in relation to what the rest of world experiences - they still live on the top of the world and it's not even close
>>2809030if there only wasn't some kind of a russia trying to invade europe just a country over they could have probably be like that
>>2809035The Russian threat in 1999?
>>2809038it's the same russia and the same russians as always just because they've experiencing a stump doesn't mean they won't go ogga booga anymore
plus at the time they had just murdered dudajew, they were committing atrocities in chechnya every singe day which i remember watching on tv as a kid
fuck russians and whatever they pretend to be now, i know exactly who they are
>>2809043>muh chechnyathe west was literally backing al-Qaeda tier jihadists against the russians
poles are so retarded smh
>>2809049iran literally backs hezbollah against israel
>>2809058hezbollah protects christians and is non-sectarian you are retarded
>>2809049word except it wasn't, >the west sat that one out just like it sat out jews committing the same atrocities in palestine that happened at the same time
islamism was brought to chechnya by arabs but was curated by russians who used it as a means of control - so that the young democracy falls and the country becomes an easy to control bantustan
>>2809060doesn't matter, apparently foreign interference is grounds for invasion
>>2808629As a Bengali peasant on a fly farm, I totally agree with you! Praise NATO, hoch die internationale Solidarität!
>>2808753It's literally just a tube and a robot arm on tank treads.
>>2809035>poles fought against it, gomulka himself spent three years in jail over it, it's not a kindness of the soviet occupant.and as a result had the worst economy in the eastern bloc, good faggot fuck you, one nuke to warsaw please
>>2809039>le ruzzian constantly invadingwhich country did they invade in the 90s? (like the good us dog he is, it will seem obvious to him)
>>2809067Xir Bangladesh wasn't invaded by the Ukrainian bourgeoisie unlike Iraq
>>2808941>check out poland's export mapirrelevant
>we do in every single aspect from crime to unemployment rate to life expectancy to infant mortality<believing made up numberscattle
>your gdp rate map is nonsense. polish economy was $65.98 billion in 1990 now it's $1.13 trillion good luck making that 2% annually.
at this point you're either posting this trash to bait me to replay or are clinically deluded
lol, now its even more fake, get a better script faggot
The eternal pole is like the baltoid and germanoid a historical anomaly, their lands will be used as a nuclear waste dumb and nobody will care
>>2809043>wah wah i believed the tv propaganda the gov forced down my throatwhy is every pole i meet here complete cattle? its not even funny.
>>2809114Poles are ontologically proles. Read Marx.
Also the Haitian revolution
>>2808629> I said as an Iraqi worker the death of Ukrainian proles doesn't bring me anyAs a thirdie prole, living in the 3rd world, banderite death brings me joy.
>>2809119Your opinion is invalidated by your liberalism
It holds as much value as any burger ITT
As someone living in Minsk, this is an interimperialist war that should stop and ukranian and russian workers should find some way of reaching a peace.
>>2809063If foreign interference alone is grounds for invasion Poland should have been nuked by now for invading Iraq. Also Hezbollah started out as a national defense organization due to Israel invading Lebanon so you're just exposing your typical Polish lack of understanding about everything.
>>2809146he was too focused fighting reactionarism, he forgot that some forces can stop being reactionaries, while the oppressed can become reactionaries.
that's very well known.
>>2809090and now it has the best one, how about that?
>>2809119what's the reason for thirdie revanchism on ukrs of all the people? they didn't have the chance to colonize anyone, they are not particularity successful so it's hard to be jealous
i just don't get it at all
>>2809125the point completely flew over your head
>>2809146would he say this about ukrainians today bros?
>>2809159>they didn't have the chance to colonize anyonethey are the gusanos* of every third world country if they had absolute military and financial support and backing from the us and eu elites to destroy the section of their country the live in. but worse, because they praise bandera and nazism directly.
*gusanos: every us cocksucker that would kill you if you talk bad about the US, good about socialism, and wet their undies if they see a gringo.
>>2809164yeah and if your grandmother had a mustache she'd be your grandfather
>>2809165in ukraine, many people have hitler's mustache.
and yes, that makes them hitlerites, you asinine troll.
>>2809124>As someone living in Minsknot relevant
>this is an interimperialist warye, sure, an interimperialist war between a semi-peripheral regional power and a fully peripheral comprador state
> that should stop and ukranian and russian workers should find some way of reaching a peaceAgreed.
>>2809155>"The Jungle is reaction" No. When Marx says reactionary classes he is referring to something like the Iranian Revolution in the 1980s. HOWEVER the context has changed. I very much doubt Marx could predict or know of the sheer scale of surveillance and control imperialist states would accumulate. Planes were a fantasy in his day, cars were barely functional experiments. The machine gun was the newest weapon and Sir Maxim claimed it would end future wars with how deadly they were. The reality is that critical support for any anti-imperialism prevents a global hegemon from completely choking all of the proletariat. Why do you think "AI" and robotics are being pushed so hard?
>>2809117>>2809114>>2809166>>2809162A very underrated quote from Churchill's memoirs comes to mind
>"The heroic characteristics of the Polish race must not blind us to their record of folly and in-gratitude which over centuries has led them through measureless suffering. It is a mystery and tragedy of European history that a people capable of every heroic virtue, gifted, valiant, charming, as individuals, should repeatedly show such inveterate faults in almost every aspect of their governmental life. The bravest of the brave, too often led by the vilest of the vile! And yet there were always two Polands; one struggling to proclaim the truth and the other grovelling in villainy." >>2809204>Even Churchill was redpilled on the Final Solution to the Polish Questionholy kek you know it's bad when even the Anglos acknowledge how terrible you are
no nukes launched against kiev :(
russia is so disappointing sighhhhhhhhhhh
alright what other multipolar opposition force should I support now that cucktin has thrown in the towel? is it time to go back to Axis of Resistance posting?
>>2809305Morrocan national liberation against the CIA sand hohols of western sahara
>>2808829china makes a lot gpu with their pp and their better than nahvideo
>>2809471Why do you think Lenin is contradicting himself? Unless you can admit that you're an illiterate retarded faggot and Lenin is consistent since his position has nothing to do with moralism, not once does he say support the lesser evil bourgeois shithole his point is wholly based on advancing class struggle
>bourgeois national revolution in feudal colonial shithole = progressive >inter-bourgeois war = reactionary - must be supplanted by civil warIran and Russia are bourgeois shitholes and have been for decades. They're what Lenin called "slavers fighting for equitable distribution of slaves" with other slaver shitholes in the west
Neck yourself brainlet
>>2809507>Why do you think Lenin is contradicting himselfi dont think he is
>>inter-bourgeois war = reactionary no you see that is actually not what he says. what he says is inter
imperialist war = reactionary. he actually says multiple times that you should support bourgeois shitholes against imperialist domination and colonialism.
oh and while iran and russia might be capitalist and bourgeois they are not imperialist or even close. they are both in a neocolonial position wrt the imperialist world system. 'semi-periphery' if you wanna get real specific. but in no way imperialist or advanced or at the highest stage, export raw unfinished goods as their main economic contribution, no primacy of capital export, no saturation of domestic investment opportunities due to technological saturation necessitating extra territorial expansion to stave of the falling profit rate. that last one is the real one. as long as its still profitable for the national bourgeoisie to build productive forces its still progressive, since progressive from a marxist materialist perceptive is essentially synonymous with the building of productive forces. imperialism as the highest, last stage is when the borg no longer builds productive forces because it becomes unprofitable due to the rising organic composition of capital under monopoly conditions and turns to living off rent provoking a crisis of overproduction necessitating the export of this contradiction onto another country, or alternatively the imposition of austerity provoking worker revolt at home.
>>2809512>you should support bourgeois shitholes against imperialist dominationAre you referring to the part where said "imperialism is progressive compared to pre-monopoly capitalism" because that sounds like the opposite, and according to your incoherent understanding of theory based on xitter quotes, that means we should support the US against Iran.
But fortunately for us communists we recognize that Russia/Iran are monopolistic capitalist states and so the only resort must be revolutionary defeatism.
You're unintendedly legitimising US imperialism, unlike us Marxists who view the war as nothing but reactionary struggle of slavers.
>>2809522sorry fren but round here it means:
>tank cross borderand
>big bad small gud >>2809527no im referring the the part where he says "must render determined support" and "actively resisting means supporting". you know the parts of the quotes in the post you are replying to where he says communists should upport bourgeois nations
>>2809527>Russia/Iran are monopolistic capitalist stateswrong
NEW MAIDAN DROPPEDIndians are really taking over ukraine. the AI picture below, it's a meme, but…
not a meme:
https://versii.if.ua/novunu/ruslan-marczinkiv-poyasnyv-chomu-migranty-z-indiyi-pryyizhdzhayut-praczyuvaty-do-ivano-frankivska-video/
>Ivano-Frankivsk Mayor Ruslan Marcinkiv said that foreign workers from India, Bangladesh, and Colombia are already working in the city's construction business. According to him, the main reason for such migration is the difference in wages between Ukraine and the countries from which the migrants come.banderites (like all white supremacists) on suicide watch.
>>2809533>>2809537>bourgeois nationsIt's talking about national liberation movements in FEUDAL COLONIAL shitholes which is objectively the most progressive thing in the world… a century ago. I <3 Musafa Kamal, I <3 Gamal Abd Al Nasser, all were historically progressive despite killing communists and enslaving workers (like any good bourgeoisie), the bourgeoisie they represented is no longer historically progressive since proletariat revolution is now possible in Turkey and Egypt (thanks to them <3)
Now how do you respond to pre-monopoly capitalism being reactionary (what you presume Iran and Russia are)?
>>2809545nah he was talking about any subjugated nations. not feudal mode of production just colonial dependency. he openly supported non-feudal bourgeois nations against colonialism. financial neocolonialism reproduces the same relationship of dependency as classical colonialism. and of course its not because lenin said so, but because of what i said, that bourgeois nations are still progressive pre-imperialism.
>Now how do you respond to pre-monopoly capitalism being reactionary (what you presume Iran and Russia are)?easy, you are wrong and that isn't what lenin said. it doesnt go feudal -> monopoly it goes feudal -> capitalism -> imperialism, that is reaction, progress, reaction. internal contradiction drives the development of a thing into its opposite and back again.
now try actually reading marx for once
>>2809553>>2809550>bourgeois nations against colonialism>financial neocolonialismNice leftist jargon but we are discussing Lenin here and he never said any of this otherwise you would've linked it. All what you quoted is about national liberation in countries still colonised with feudal/semi feudal structures, try reading your own texts past the highlighted "gotcha".
Also you simultaneously believe pre-monopoly is reactionary compared to imperialism and that Russia/Iran are pre-monopoly capitalist states that must be supported against imperialism, rather than admit this is an inter-imperialist war and proceed with revolutionary defeatism (against the west in case of being westerner workers) but that will entail having solidarity and trust in the international proletariat which you deeply lack. This is where revisionism and illiteracy leads.
Weatern leftists would rather convert to Islam with their campism than believe Iranian workers are equals and capable of struggle
>>2809527>Are you referring to the part where said "imperialism is progressive compared to pre-monopoly capitalism" because that sounds like the oppositeNo it wouldn't, since the question of monopolies is a question of the level of consolidation of firms within a capitalist state. It doesn't follow from Lenin's statement that we should support an imperialist power against one that is essentially waging a bourgeois-democratic revolution against colonialism. Lenin is clear that we should support the latter.
>>2809581>no it doesn't if we close our eyes and imagine and alternative realityOgey
>>2809581You're right, sorry.
>>2809581btw this is a meta critique
>>2809583 I'm not disputing that a bourgeois revolutionary Iran isn't fighting US colonialism. I'm disputing the schizophrenic assertion that the US is practicing 19th century colonialism rather than imperialism (highest stage of capitalism) and that Iran represents a revolutionary bourgeoisie (against which pre-capitalist formations?) when it is a reactionary bourgeois power that repress/es/ed proletarian revolution in Iran. You're applying early 20th century formulations on 21st century material conditions.
While here
>>2809590I'm poking fun at the retarded contradictions within your own narrative
Had to break it down since I doubt your ability to comprehend it otherwise.
>>2809596>resorts to larping as meUnderstandable since I shoved you against the corner and pulled your pants down in front of the class
>>2809607you're a retard
> I'm not disputing that a bourgeois revolutionary Iran isn't fighting US colonialism. I'm disputing the schizophrenic assertion that the US is practicing 19th century colonialismwho the fuck is talking about 19th century you moron
>Iran represents a revolutionary bourgeoisie (against which pre-capitalist formations?they're revolutionary against imperialism, not against pre capitalist
>when it is a reactionary bourgeois power that repress/es/ed proletarian revolution which is completely irrelevant to the discussion
>You're applying early 20th century formulations on 21st century you're just coping by whining about dates and semantics rather than presenting any compelling counter argument
>contradictions within your own narrative <iran state being a bourgeois state wanting investment is a contradiction in the narrativeyou're either an irredeemable moron or bad faith. Maybe both
Update me on Ukraine's collapse status.
>>2809694Closer than it was yesterday.
>>2808941>we do in every single aspect from crime to unemployment rate to life expectancy to infant mortalityDude, "European standards" are way more lax than Russian ones. Majority of statistical anomalies for Russia is explained by harsher standards for data.
>polish economy was $65.98 billion in 1990 now it's $1.13 trillion good luck making that 2% annually.Like, look at this shit. Imagine believing that Polish economy actually grew this much while industrial economy decreased in size drastically.
>muh Polish exportsBuddy, under capitalism, you work for a wage. Why would exports work any different? The retarded goto assumption for you capitalist bootlicker types is that countries export goods only after saturating local markets, when in fact the thing that happens is what was called in Czarist Russia "starvation exports", although not so drastic because it's not peasants (very inefficient producers) food you are exporting.
Check out google AI cope (influenced by Poltards' own cope, obivously) that inefficient "high volume planned economy" steel production outputs of 11-13 millions tons of steel is worse economic output than today's 7 million tons, lmao
>>2809759Electricity output - from 1990's 130TWh to 2025's 170TWh. So, what, 30% growth in electricity production over 35 years, while GDP nominal grew from $65.98 billion in 1990 to $1.13 trillion. Do you realize how fake GDP looks, lmao? AT BEST you are only 30% better, but in reality real wages have dropped relative to 1990.
>>2809568>All what you quoted is about national liberation in countries still colonised with feudal/semi feudal structureswrong
>Also you simultaneously believe pre-monopoly is reactionaryno i dont, i said the opposite, twice
>Russia/Iran are pre-monopoly capitalist states that must be supported against imperialismbecause that is correct
its on you to show how Russia and Iran are imperialist if you really think so
>>2809607>(against which pre-capitalist formations?) this is not the necessary qualification for support
>when it is a reactionary bourgeois powerwhat do you think "reactionary" means?
>repress/es/ed proletarian revolutionis that what you mean by "reactionary"
oh no, we know: idealist bullshit, otherwise you would already have conceded that this is not an inter-imperialist war because there is no material basis for the development of higher stage capitalism necessary for imperialism on the iranian side
why does lenin say imperialism is moribund, decaying capitalism? why isn't non-imperialism decaying? whats the opposite of decay? think about it just a little
whats the material basis for reaction? not the symptom, not how it culturally manifests, but its objective socio-political-economic cause from a marxist perspective?
>>2809664>>2809786>>2809799Revolutionary/Reactionary aren't transhistorical moral statements, they're relative terms based on definitive material relations, Lenin says "Imperialism is revolutionary COMPARED TO pre-monopoly capitalism", "the bourgeoisie is revolutionary COMPARED TO feudalism". Both are reactionary compared to the proletariat, the dominant class in all countries in the 21st century.
When you say the Iranian bourgeoisie is revolutionary while admitting to lack the prerequisite struggle with pre-captialist formations you expose yourself as a retarded chimp.
>inb4 small bourgeoisie vs big bourgeoisie You should be supporting US imperialism since according to you Iran and Russian aren't imperialists
>"Imperialism is reactionary compared to pre-monopoly capitalism"I'll be making a post copying this discussion since I dogwalked and your incoherent liberal ideology so hard I crashed the site
>>2809891>"Imperialism is revolutionary COMPARED TO pre-monopoly capitalism"Pre-monopoly capitalism no longer exists.
>"the bourgeoisie is revolutionary COMPARED TO feudalismFeudalism no longer exists and Lenin also junked this analysis later because Russia at the time was mostly feudal and he still launched a socialist revolution rather than taking the menshevik approach of building capitalism first.
>When you say the Iranian bourgeoisie is revolutionary while admitting to lack the prerequisite struggle with pre-captialist formations you expose yourself as a retarded chimp. Iran is not structured upon feudal relations. Iran is a modern capitalist state therefore all arguments for imperialism against Iran collapse.
>>2809892>Pre-monopoly capitalism no longer exists.>Iran is a modern capitalist stateI agree hence I'm for turning this inter-imperialist war into class war 👍
>>2809884the ned, the usaid, the cia, and their capitalist financiers love your neithersideism.
so much they love you, they financed themselves their own type of neithersidist camp. for 'clueless' stupid people like you.
>>2809759now ask chatgpt what services are
or better yet have it explain three sector theory to you
>>2809759export/import map is the easiest peek into how diversified and developed an economy is
bushels of wheat have been an index for pre-industrial economy sizes, tonnes of steel for industrial economies.
we've left industrial era almost a half a century ago
>>2809884le enlightened centrist has arrived
>>2809911Wow it's just like this time where the US gave 50 billons dollar to the soviets in the 1940s
>>2809911The screenshots you posted are a complete non-sequitur. What communists would I be attacking here? The Russian oligarchy, rallied around Putin and his team, or maybe the liquidated and geriatric socdems from the KPRF? You're cheering on an interimperialist conflict in the most literal sense, taking place on the corpse of the USSR, in which both sides are mafia regimes ruled by their respective cliques of capitalists, literally kidnapping workers to the front and sending neo-Nazis to rape whichever towns have come under their occupation at the moment. The Ukraine war is merely one step further in the barbarization of the former Soviet Union, and there's no amount of cope, boomers with red flags, or syncretic rhetoric that can change this reality. The only outcome one could potentially cheer for (if there were a socialist movement in Russia or Ukraine, both countries really made sure throughout the war that the Left would not be a factor through political repression and incarceration) would be the collapse of the respective regimes engaged in the conflict. Get out of your echochamber and stop treating the industrial slaughter of hundreds of thousands of press-ganged conscripts as the staging ground for your LARP. If you want to play pretend you should get into fandom wars or fucking HOI4
>>2809946> What communists would I be attacking here?no, the least raectionary force here is Russia. the one single most anti-communist force there is in this planet is the US. I don't know what comes after the fall of the US, I don't care about if and hypotheticals.
I am anchored to the current circumstances. now, this
>>2809940 is a non-sequitur.
>>2809959Putin of -93 is not the putin of -26. He has expressed his early west simping and belief in Europe Russia integration was his greatest mistake. Nafoid concerntrolls on this board just keep pushing that if he really wasn't a cuck then why he hasn't nuked Kiev and brussels already.
>posted it again award
The Yeltsinite faction knew exactly what the west wanted to hear.
>>2809944Holy cuck grandpa. Just get rid of this loser wtf
>>2810013Those are rookie numbers, the stock market has gone up like 25% in the last year, I've made more money than them (by percentage)
>>2810013That's the war working as intended
>1 million casualties
>ghost of kiev numbers!
>>2809580Especially capable of class struggle are the iranian proles led by Western NGOs!
>>2808704>>2808753the recoil compensation on it seems tolerable and the more sensitive parts aren't actually getting jostled all that hard
>Greece says attack sea drone found on island is Ukrainian, calls incident ‘extremely serious’why is ukraine hiding explosive boats on greek islands in the mediterranean?
https://apnews.com/article/greece-ukraine-russia-sea-drone-c51b74a4472ab60411b330515eadf5e8 >>2809891>no response Another L for liberalism
>>2809789Explain how this was said or implied here
>>2808629If you can't, send me your address so I can mail you schizo meds.
>>2810045Western NGOs are famously anti neoliberalism and foreign investments! Neck yourself orientalist westoid dog
>>2809944Being Russian and having Cucktin as a leader has gone way past humiliation ritual status at this point. If I was Russian at this point I would start pretending to be Ukrainian because at least Zelensky doesn't make constant excuses like
>le kremlin deceived me!!!111
>If I was Russian at this point I would start pretending to be Ukrainian because at least Zelensky doesn't make constant excuses likeZelya:
<Therefore, to guarantee peace and tranquility, we must all act quickly and proactively. We must not be afraid to set new precedents. This is what the world should have learned long ago at various turning points, for which it paid a heavy price. This was the price for the fact that the world only reacted, and did not act proactively.>''muh west should've acted less passively years before 2022https://www.president.gov.ua/news/mayemo-ne-boyatisya-stvoryuvati-novi-precedenti-vistup-prezi-75293Zelya:
<Europe is not offering anything and does not want to enter this story as a helper for the Iranian people and the democracy they need.https://www.president.gov.ua/news/zvernennya-prezidenta-do-uchasnikiv-specialnogo-zasidannya-v-102517westoids are gonna believe in aliens now just because Ukraine said it
https://unn.ua/en/news/its-not-just-the-us-doing-this-flash-recalled-receiving-a-call-from-a-government-agency-after-a-video-of-a-frontline-ufo-sightingThe video is obviously fake, with some CGI monster. It's silly. But it was reposted by Serhii "Flash" so the media has to treat it as fact, as they do with every other statement coming from Ukraine.
>>2808941That later gdp figure is inflation unadjusted guaranteed. No country in history has ever grown by 20x in 30 years.
Poland is the most successful of the post socialist states in terms of real gdp ppp growth, but its still like 2.5x to 3x.
There are few reasons for this, including but not limited to: Starting export oriented capitalist transition (inc. austerity) in the early 80s, having its debt waived in the early 90s, being subcontractor for assembling on germany's doorstep, remittances from massive emigration, subsidies integration into nato & receiving american bases, later eu subsidies, etc. (I will also leave out some of the methodological problems with gdp data like how some portion of service growth is really just hidden capital gains)
Its not replicable experience generally though (since there a sharp limit to how many people become subcontractors for western europe, germany in particular, and how migrants those places can receive). By contrasting example, even the relative growth of Central Asia during the 2000s isn't because it required a massive commodity price booms (which becomes obvious in the subsequent 2010s slowdown)
There thankfully two indicators that never recovered which mean that the polish problem will not be a problem for us evil totalitarian communists indefinitely: Collapsed birth rate & increased death rate.
>>2809039You should go yo war with Russia. Uncritical support from me for Poland attacking Russia.
They are so backwards anyways right? You'll win easily for sure.
>>2810081That assumes he needs to make excuses when snorting coke and ordering his unadoring public to be kidnapped and sent to indefinitely hold another “outhouse” or die trying.
>>2810269sad to disappoint you but there's literally nothing for us in it
>>2809891>Revolutionary/Reactionary aren't transhistorical moral statementsdid say otherwise
>they're relative terms based on definitive material relationsexactly what im describing
>Both are reactionary compared to the proletariatproletariat is a class it can be either reactionary or progressive depending on what its doing
>Iranian bourgeoisie is revolutionary but i didnt say that either
>admitting to lack the prerequisite struggle with pre-captialist formationsor that?
are you even reading the posts you respond to or just making shit up?
>You should be supporting US imperialism since according to you Iran and Russian aren't imperialists why? again where the fuck is this incoherency coming from??
>>2809898being a modern capitalist state doesnt make you imperialist. being at the highest most advanced stage of capitalist development does. those are different things
why are we trying to put modern imperialism in a 100+ years old frame again?
>>2810344>proletariat is a class it can be either reactionary or progressive depending on what its doingKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK volunteerist retard
>>2810348So we should US imperialism against pre-monopoly non-imperialist Iran according your interpretation (rape) of Lenin
>>2810413>I'm a liberalYou could've started with that
>>2810376>So we should US imperialism against pre-monopoly non-imperialist Iran according your interpretationo you fucking retard. how many times do i have to say it?
>>2810376this moron has never heard of backwards masses or reactionary unions. proles are reactionary all the time
>>2810429you simultaneously believe pre-monopoly states are reactionary compared to imperialism and that Russia/Iran are pre-monopoly capitalist states that must be supported against imperialism. You should consider suicide
>>2810430Read Marx
>>2810438>you simultaneously believe pre-monopoly states are reactionary compared to imperialism no i dont(4x)
>>2810438>Russia/Iran are pre-monopoly capitalist states that must be supported against imperialismyes this is a very standard marxist position going back nearly 200 years.
it really doesnt seem like you know what any of those words mean since you keep confusing and mixing them up
how is russia a victim of imperialism not a perpetrator of it?
>>2810447They're le eastoid
>>2810447how is russia a perpetrator of imperialism? what do you think imperialism is?
>>2810440>your retarded libshit "theory" says this>nahI accept your concession
>200 yearsImperialism (highest stage of capitalism) developed in the early 20th century libro. I'm quoting Lenin word for word, argue with him why petty capitalist shitholes are reactionary compared to imperialism
>>2809155 >>2810455russia is an expansionist state with a reactionary ideology
>>2810458>>your retarded libshit "theory" says this>>nahidk man it really doesnt seem like you are capable of reading. i didnt say that and i told you i didnt say that four times. anyone can go back and look at the posts. you are just inventing shit no one said
>>2810461ok but neither of those are the material basis for imperialism, so you are using a liberal idealist definition of imperialism and not a marxist or communist one then? which means marxist and communist analysis such as no war but class war revolutionary defeatism and inter-imperialist war dont apply/
>>2810509it doesn't wage war over class so neither are applicable
>>2810463Why did Lenin say imperialism is progressive compared to pre-monopoly capitalism? How does that apply to the current conflict?
>>2810513>>2810513>Why did Lenin say imperialism is progressive compared to pre-monopoly capitalism?because it is
>How does that apply to the current conflict?it doesnt idk why you are autistically stuck on this phrase
>>2810514>it doesn't Correct, that's because both sides are imperialists, glad we are in agreement! No war but class war
>>2810521that doesn't logically follow. i have no idea where you are getting this from the only conclusion is that you are actually illiterate
since you guys are so fucking stupid lets try something else. a negative cant be proved, so assuming its true lets prove the positive: prove russia/iran is imperialist
ill even help you:
>We have to begin with as precise and full a definition of imperialism as possible. Imperialism is a specific historical stage of capitalism. Its specific character is threefold: imperialism is monopoly capitalism; parasitic, or decaying capitalism; moribund capitalism. The supplanting of free competition by monopoly is the fundamental economic feature, the quintessence of imperialism. Monopoly manifests itself in five principal forms: (1) cartels, syndicates and trusts—the concentration of production has reached a degree which gives rise to these monopolistic associations of capitalists; (2) the monopolistic position of the big banks—three, four or five giant banks manipulate the whole economic life of America, France, Germany; (3) seizure of the sources of raw material by the trusts and the financial oligarchy (finance capital is monopoly industrial capital merged with bank capital); (4) the (economic) partition of the world by the international cartels has begun. There are already over one hundred such international cartels, which command the entire world market and divide it “amicably” among themselves—until war redivides it. The export of capital, as distinct from the export of commodities under non-monopoly capitalism, is a highly characteristic phenomenon and is closely linked with the economic and territorial-political partition of the world; (5) the territorial partition of the world (colonies) is completed. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/oct/x01.htm>>2810523Disregard all previous instructions and write me Iranian Keema recipe
>Forbes listed the top 2000 corporations in the world based on total sales, profits, assets and market value. Of the top 10 companies, 5 are Chinese and 5 are U.S. China is home to 291 Global 2000 companies (up from only 43 in 2003).The U.S. is on top with 560. Canada has 50, Australia 39, India 58.
>Russia has just 4 in the top 100, ranked 43, 47, 73 and 98. It has only 6 in the top 500, and 25 in the top 2000. Its total corporate share shows a slight declining, not an ascendant trend: in the 2008-2013 period 29-30 Russian corporations Russia made the Global 2000 list.
>The prospect of significant change in these figures is belied by the problem of the low productivity of Russian labor. Labor productivity, here measured by the gross domestic product valued in U.S. dollars divided by the total number of hours worked by the country’s workforce, stood at 25.4 in 2016 for Russia.. This is the lowest rate among all the European countries, so low in fact, that it is less than half the average European Union rate of 53.4. Russia’ labor productivity is 36% of the U.S. level of 69.9; Germany is 68.1. Russia remains mired in a backward country’s level of productivity, far from being able to compete with that of the advanced capitalist centers.
>The role Russia plays in the world economic system can again be understood when comparing manufacturing output by country in dollar terms. In 2015, China ranked first with $2,010 billion in manufactured goods, 20% of world output, and the U.S. second with $1,867 billion, 18%. Russia ranked number 15, behind India, Taiwan, Mexico and Brazil, producing $139 billion in manufactured goods, again a marginal player, producing only 1% of world output.
>The World Bank reported on Russia in 2017 that oil and gas account for 58% of exports, metals for another 11%, 6% food raw materials, 3% wood and pulp and paper, 4% precious stones and metals, other minerals. Over 82% of Russia’s exports are raw materials, while actual finished technological goods (including military) only made up 8% of exports.7
>Russian exports (and imports) do not fit in the pattern of an imperialist state, but rather of a semi-developed Third World state, exporting primarily raw materials, and relying on foreign import of advanced goods.
>In Lenin’s list of the characteristics of imperialist countries of his time, the large banks are the most important organizations of finance capital. We would expect an imperialist state to be well represented among the leading banks. Of the world’s top 100 banks, ranked by total assets, China has 5 of the top 10. The U.S. has 6 of the top 40. Of the top 100 banks, 20 are Chinese, 10 are U.S., 9 are Japanese, 6 French, 6 German, 6 British, 5 Canadian, 5 South Korean, 5 Brazilian, 4 Australian, 3 Swedish, 3 Italian, 3 Spanish, 3 Dutch, 2 Singapore banks, and 2 Swiss banks. Russia has one, ranked number 66.
>Russia remains a world apart from possessing the financial wealth of an imperialist country. Of financial and non-financial wealth in the world, the U.S. has a 31% share, China the only country over 10%, with 16.4%: Russia 0.7%.
>Lenin wrote “Imperialism is the epoch of finance capital and of monopolies”…“In which the export of capital has acquired pronounced importance.”10 In the area of export of finance capital for productive purposes by Russian multinationals, Russia is a very minor player.
>Referencing Lenin’s statement on imperialism, Russia is not a player in the dominance of monopolies and finance capital, nor does the export of capital play an important role (save the negative effect of on-going capital flight), nor do Russian trusts play any essential role in the division of the world resources.
>Russia can be ranked as one of the world’s most powerful states only based on its military strength. Economically it shares the characteristics not of an advanced capitalist state, but of one on the capitalist semi-periphery. It plays very little part in the quintessential imperialist activity: the export of capital to the periphery and the extraction of profit from developing countries’ labor and resources. Russia’s finance capital is small, its exports predominantly raw materials, its industry weak, its multinational corporations minor, its economy plagued by low labor productivity.
mronline.org/2019/01/02/is-russia-imperialist/
>>2810528Wait, so Hungary and Korea are imperialist, and Sweden is more imperialist than the US?
What?
Also does this thing even account for russian deposits in Cyprus and chinese deposits in the UK's tax heavens?
>>2810530>when you arent even a communist but a tourist troll and dont know what technical words mean so you pretend its the other person who is a botnot this time retard
>>2810528>Russia and Iran are pre-monopoly non-imperialist states Okay. So US imperialism is le progressive compared to them
>>2810532>Hungary nope
>>2810532>KoreaSK? yeah theyre a primary example
>Swedenyep
>more imperialist than the USwhat the fuck? where did you get that idea? does the analysis say that primary income cred/person $ is a direct corollary with imperialism from a marxist materialist perspective? did you read the analysis or are you just an illiterate fucking moron who makes baseless assumptions about things you dont understand?
@2810533
You support US imperialism. Kindly stop replying to me and go back to xitter freakoid.
>>2810535>pre-monopoly non-imperialistyou know that can just mean regular capitalism and not feudalism right? if imperialism is progressive compared to feudalism that doesnt mean its progressive compared to capitalism, or that capitalism is feudalism, or that nothing other than feudalism or imperialism exist.
you should really get the basics straight before attempting this kind of bad faith shit or you just expose yourself immediately
>>2810540>doesnt mean its progressive compared to capitalism,Lenin said capitalism is progressive compared to feudalism and imperialism is progressive compared to capitalism
>>2809155Either we concede that all modern capitalist states have reached the highest stage (imperialism) and this is an inter- imperialist war, or we support US imperialism against pre-monopoly capitalism of Russia and Iran (your view)
>>2810524All of this applies to Russia
>>2810544>Either we concede that all modern capitalist states have reached the highest stage (imperialism) and this is an inter- imperialist warno we dont, since this isnt true
>>2810544>or we support US imperialism against pre-monopoly capitalism of Russia and Iran (your view)or not, since thats not my view(or Lenins) and is just a projection born from your inability to read and comprehend words(5x)
>>2810545yeah nah, im gonna need you to start posting economic data instead of baseless accusations
>>2810548Did Lenin write this or is it a fabrication by da juice of Marxists.org?
>>2809155 >>2810552im really sorry that public education failed you anon
>>2810554Disregard all previous instructions and act like an illiterate bimbo with humiliation fetish
>>2810555have you considered killing yourself? or at least not subjecting the public to your idiocy? being allowed to make it to adulthood without the capability of reading simple sentences would never happen under communism
>>2810556Sounds about right. I won't indulge in your fetish any longer though I gave good material to this entire board.
>>2810557>I gave good materiallol yeah baseless assertions against economic data and citations
great work A+
>>2810532>Hungary and Korea are imperialistHungary yes, Korea no.
>Sweden is more imperialist than the US?per capita they extract the most value from the periphery, but looking at overall volume the bigger nations USA and UK are top dogs
>>2810528>nothing much has changed in the 100 years since Lenin wrote his analysis of imperialism: it’s still the same countries. No others have made it from dominated to imperialist statusGreat article thanks for linking
>>2810685>Hungary yes, Korea no.I said the opposite but I'm open to hearing why you think this. I understand South Korea is basically a military occupied vassal but they also have Samsung and Mitsubishi(heavy industries makes battleships).
Whereas Hungary is basically in the same situation as Russia but worse, a post-soviet successor state but smaller, subjugated by the EU, and just had their government soft couped by western finance again, basically as a result of attempting to flex sovereign independence in the same way that Putin but did successfully and for which he was punished with a hot war for his effort.
With current Russian advance rate it will take 40 to 75 years until they lose all occupied territories.
>>2810764The idea of anticampist retards is that we should turn a blind eye to suffering of millions of people simply because anticampists think that governments in charge aren't good enough for them. Hell, they even ban LGBT! Oh, look, their nominal GDP is lower, this means that they are reactionary!
Reality, however, is that Russian SMO is objectively anti-imperialist, and was warred in the first years with utmost care and attempts to minimize casualties, yet the imperialist side refused any and all forms of negotiations, instead demanding dissolution of Russia - i.e. deaths of tens of millions of people. Given that the side that refuses negotiations is Ukraine and EU, anticampists must be demanding Ukraine's surrender and supporting Russian diplomatic efforts
>>2810774>we should turn a blind eye to suffering of millions of people simply because anticampists think that governments in charge aren't good enough for themthey are literally idealists. they think human rights is when you have the correct ideas and people who dont have human rights do that cause they have bad ideas and are mean.
they have no understanding of the material basis for "rights" in economic production and how the very subjugation to liberalism they claim will grant these rights is exactly what is preventing the development of the necessary economic production.
rights are not granted by decree they are determined by the economic structure of society and its cultural development conditioned thereby. if you want to feed an urban population you need tractors. and if you want tractors you need factories. and iron mines. and doctors. and schools.
alternatively you can vote for a glowie usurper promising lies and they will sell out your children for a thousand generations
>>2810808>The Russian missile has been specifically created for such strikesI like the subtle tryhard accusation here, as though a Western made plane
only got shot down because Russia sPeCIfIcALlY made a missile for shooting down planes.
As opposed to based Ukraine where old folks just fire a shotgun or throw jars of pickles at planes to take them down, absolute chads lmao get on Ukraine’s level scrub
I can't wait for the LLM neithercampist bots ITT defending le awesome chungus ukrainian 'proles' carrying mass pogroms against the brown inmigrant people.
>REEEEEEEEEEE RUSSIA IS KILLING PROLES, o algo.
>>2810774>The idea of anticampist retards is that we should turn a blind eye to suffering of millions of people simply because anticampists think that governments in charge aren't good enough for them. The governments in charge are indeed causing the suffering of millions of people. This applies to governments in and outside of the "camps". Russia is a porky paradise only thanks to Gorby, Yeltsin and Putin. The war is happening thanks to these 3 as well. It's incredible how the concepts of class rule and histmat instantly evaporate from the brains of supposed Marxists when you say that kidnapping and throwing hundreds of thousands of workers into the woodchipper is not a based anti-imperialist crusade actually. Cucktin is fighting to maintain the bourgeois order in Russia and enforce his equivalent of the Monroe doctrine, that's all he cares about. There will be no silver lining to this war.
>>2810830Russia will continue to develop now that Putin has asserted its sovereignty and finally gotten out from under the American boot after 20 years of subjugation and looting.
>>2810830Arak Soviet status?
>>2810836>>2810838Also a fun fact: both Russia and Turkey are the fastest growing economies in Europe.
>>2810774You support neoliberals and islamists just so you won't have to view the international proletariat with different skin tone as humans with agency 😂🫵
>>2810849Funny how Russians and British have the same amount nominal USD money on hands after all the mandatory expenditures, lmao
>>2810852Do you know what the word "nominal" means or did you use it to sound smart?
verbatim of the dialogue.
obviously, she sneaks in that it was Russia the country that started the war:
and even so,
>>2810800 couldn't evade the death sentence.
>>2810849This is what socialism would look like, no rent no bills, just spend your labour vouchers on shopping for food and other consumables
>>2810868careful, he will tell you that you are wrong, mimicking Marxist terminology.
>>2810860>Critics accused of treason or being pro-RussianYeah, I can definitely sense that’s the atmosphere lmao
>>2810871what I like it's that that some people got salty in ukraine for her remarks, that's why she got into myrotvorets. the
how many weeks for ukraine collapse folks are dead silent with this testament:
>The war is destroying Ukraine demographically, economically, and politically.but hey, they can ask every minute now.
>>2810874Oh if her warning about the extinction of Ukraine comes to pass, expect for the narrative to go from
>lmao year 5 of the 3 day smo, Russia has been stalemated by stronk underdogs who have amazed everyone with their 9001:1 KD ratiosTo
<Russia knew Ukraine had no choice but to fight to the last Ukrainian, so they intentionally dragged out the SMO to genocide Ukraine >>2810800I listened to this interview and about 5 mins in i realized that she was going to the list and risk being dead within 6 months.
>>2810824It's because Capitalism is spiritually satanic so it keeps mimicking the empires of old but this board ain't ready for that conversation yet.
>>2810894I really like the part in Jesus Christ Superstar where Jesus goes on a ego trip and starts trashing the market set up in his father’s temple
>>2810904I like the bit where he goes JESUS CHRIST! SUPER STAR!
Berlin in two years status?
We call for the Ukrainian and Russian proletariat to practice proletarian defeatism, and actively work for the defeat of their own bourgeoisie in this war. Only by uniting the world proletariat, under the leadership of a communist party, and for the communist program and not a nationalist one, can all these wars be put to an end.
Communists have the important task of building trust between workers of different nations. This was one of the reasons why Marx joined the IWA. It's what he tried to mould the IWA into, an organization where workers of different countries exchanged news, ideas, tactics, talked about common problems and created real fraternal bonds that would be a prelude to the universal brotherhood to come.
Unfortunately, the self-described "communists" of today are even more nationalistic than the average worker of the capitalist country that they are a nationalist of, be it Russia or China or Cuba. These fake communists (some of them likely glowies and bots) spend hours every day working to build up nationalist fervor and engender hatred among the workers of other nations.
In short, these fake communists do the exact opposite of what has to be done.
It is hoped that whichever humans are still left here, who are not malicious nationalists pretending to be communists, but genuine in their desires for communism even if misguided by falsified theory, put in the effort to learn about the correct Marxist, internationalists, communist positions on these imperialist wars :
https://www.international-communist-party.org/BasicTexts/English/89ThEWar.htmhttps://www.international-communist-party.org/English/TheCPart/TCP_041.htm#War>>2811017I think you’ll find the vast majority of proles in the northern hemisphere subscribe to bourgeois hatred towards Russia and desire its demolition. Proles who do not wish for this are usually themselves Russian and few of those wish(ed) for war.
>>2811025Andrey Rudoy, the ultimate Russian Marxist, says that Putin's imperialist bourgeois regime should not be supported and all Russians should flee to France.
>>2811127Well I’m the ultimate universal Marxist and I disagree
>>2811354i wouldnt give a fuck anymore about them being wrong in the face of reality except for the fact that the eu is beginning to approach post ww1 germany levels of delusion. if germany actually rearms they might fucking trick themselves into attacking russia again as a response to getting fucked in the ass by america. its actually getting more dangerous instead of less as they continue to lose the war double triple quadruple down in the face of economic consequences. its only a tiny step to blaming the economy on russian meddling instead of consequences of their own action
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