not sure if these prole.info people are communizers/leftcom/whatever but this at least reminds me of stuff in the phil a neel vein and ive gotten a lot of use out of this text in particular for introducing people to basic marxist concepts
https://archive.org/details/thehousingmonster>>2799391op will be fash in 3 years tops
>>2806339Last I heard prole.info is not a "leftcom" or a "communizer" but close to a tendency that reads both and also reads anarchist texts. This tendency does not self-identify as anything but communist and revolutionary.
>>2799398Camatte was never a communizer or a primitivist. He was a bordigist/damenist who considered that most of humanity was too domesticated for the proles to act in consequence of their historical interests and decided to drop out and homestead.
You could say he was his own brand of anti-civ I guess but there's a big difference between anti-civs and primmies even though there's an overlap.
>>2806440>He was a bordigist/damenist who considered that most of humanity was too domesticated for the proles to act in consequence of their historical interests has he been deboonked? I hold the same view tbh, Im interested in "refutations" that come from an ultroid/communizer angle
>>2806476It was just his honest opinion and I can't blame him tbh. I still think there's nothing left to live for without the struggle for communism but we all see how that's going… only the proletariat becoming the class of consciousness and liberating itself on the global scale can debunk him, and I'm sure he would have loved more than anything to be proven wrong in this regard.
>>2806026What's a "appelistas"?
>>2806440Thanks for the clarification.
>>2809182Appelistas are the Tiqqun/invisible committee/Lundi Matin gang, called that because of their text "L'Appel" (The Call). It's not just that their leadership are middle class and petty booj academic types and their texts are meandering PoMo drivel, they have even kidnapped and tortured comrades for disagreeing with them at assemblies. Ask any ZAD kid about their manipulation and opportunism.
I still read Lundi.am sometimes though.
>>2809185>>2806440He literally wrote for the Fifth Estate
>>2809253oh damn, I myself have just started reading Tiqqun's Bloom Theory and yeah, their writing style is certainly annoying. Still reading it though just to understand what the hell their talking about.
Is their any texts or articles about their kidnapping shit like you claim? Also whats "ZAD"?
Didn't know some communizers were this insane or, more accurately, in the real world, since a lot of people who fit the leftcom umbrella are rarely seen doing activity irl and or mostly relegated into online communities (other than the mainline ICP and ICT).
The only irl thing that any communizer has done (from what I know) is the Tarnac Nine case in France.
>>2809267>Tarnac NineNever existed
>>2809265Freddy published Dauvé and I think Vaneigem as well. Not everything in FE was primmie, and imo he was the only primmie worth reading. Respect, even though I disagree with a lot of his positions.
>>2809267ZAD is the broad forest occupation and defense movement, mostly in france but there's also Hambi in germany. Appelistas have tried to control it in a very cynical and manipulative way, often using their weight to push for reformist compromises against the more radical elements. As I've implied I really don't consider Apellistas to be communizers or even "anarcho-communizers" as some have labelled them. They have very different means and goals.
>>2809278How? Could you specify why it didn't exist?
>>2809279If you don't mind, could you further specify why the Apellistas aren't communizers? I mean, from what I've heard, they (Tiqqun and The Invisible Committee) are closer to insurrectionary anarchism, so I can kind of see your point.
>>2809340>could you specify ?Litterally made up by the government, the judges proved the guys that did get arrested didn't belong to any group at all, and that it was a political scarecrow to look tough against "left-wing terrorism"
>>2809340>could you further specify why the Apellistas aren't communizers? I was going to go into a bit more detail about the lore but on second thought it's probably not a good idea on a place such as this… Basically don't think they come from the same "lineage" as so-called communizer groups so to speak, and not from insus like Bonanno either. Let's just say they are their own scene and people that know them don't trust them
>>2809457whats the context for the second image lol?
>>2809459Iirc someone was spamming and shitting up the log and asking for a /raid/ board and that was the response from jannies
>>2809451unit 82000 isnt sending their best .
>>2809464 (me)
also for context /thread/575 is your typical "brown migrants aren't real proles they're filthy scabs" bait that we've had on leftypol over 9000 times. It's probably still up (not gonna check)
Also I'm willing to bet that the pedo invasion we had on here yesterday was the bordy crew's doing
>>2809464both of you should be executed
>>2801832because it's not spontaneous even the anarchists have a ton of organization and infraestructure behind
>>2801832because they're not funded by neo liberals like American anarchists are
>>2809457that jannie speaks my kind of language
>>2801832because americans are stupid
>>2809952Thank you, I think Endnotes is one of the most interesting groups dealing with Marxist theory today, and I should read them more.
I specifically recommend "A History of Separation: The Rise and Fall of the Workers' Movement, 1883-1982" in Endnotes 4 as a critique of the traditional labour movement.
And if you want a short blackpill about activism, open the Endnotes 5 PDF and Ctrl+F "The Impotence of the Revolutionary group?", enjoy.
I find it weird this topic doesn't get much discussion here, its the kind of thing that I would expect people with fringe politics would be into
>>2801461>The communizer idea that we could "riot our way to communism" is pretty weak. There are glaringly obvious problems with this idea, which were partially demonstrated during the Floyd protests in 2021, which is probably why interest in communization theory petered out during the Biden yearsI guess it has to do with this, not just in burgerland but on an international scale I remember there were lots of riots a few years ago, and it all went nowhere
>>2810006>I find it weird this topic doesn't get much discussion hereFrom what I've seen most leftypol users are MLs or porn addicts so this lack of discussion (up until now) isn't surprising.
I'm also interested on why all the riots stopped. I think its because the rioters had no concrete goal, they didn't know what to do after burning down the stores and breaking through the barricades. They had no vision and their demands were vague (e.g. with the Floyd protests demands ranged from police abolition to police reform).
Dauvé talks about this vagueness leading to the revolution dying in "Eclipse and Re-emergence of the Communist Movement," though I wouldn't be surprised if some other theorists made the same claim before him.
Another example of this revolutionary vagueness leading to failure could be the German Revolution of 1918-1919 where the communists distinguished themselves from the social democrats quite late. This made the workers of Germany confused on which side to support, which was made worse with the social democrats supporting the newly formed soviets. (
https://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2001-08-01/1921-beginning-of-the-counter-revolution)
>>2810006They didn't just fizzle out on their own. The international wave of rebellions from 2018-2020, which were spreading, was crushed by the COVID measures and the "covid relief" bailouts (massive liquidity injections) which delayed the immanent financial crisis that would have very possibly fanned the flamed and turned the wave of rebellions into a revolutionary tsunami.
>>2810284> I think its because the rioters had no concrete goal, they didn't know what to do after burning down the stores and breaking through the barricades. They had no vision and their demands were vagueThere was a clear process of insurrectionary clarification going on, at least from the accounts I've heard from comrades the uprising in ecuador and chile and from the Yellow Vests in france. Apolitical proles were organically building radical class consciousness through participation and there was a real potential for these "hunger riot" movements to spill over into something much bigger. Of course the opportunist, reformist, counterrevolutionary elements contributed to extinguishing the flame as well but imo the COVID measures were the biggest factor.
For anyone who is interested in reading a critique of communization theory you can read the ICT's article called "The Disappointed of 1968: Seeking Refuge in Utopia" (
https://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2020-08-28/the-disappointed-of-1968-seeking-refuge-in-utopia).
Its more of a critique against communizers who have abandoned class struggle or believe that there is no such thing as a "working class" anymore but if anyone is interested they can read it.
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>>2810286very convenient how covid happened just in the right moment haha
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>>2809408Could you provide a source for these claims?
Im currently reading Bloom Theory by Tiqqun and its an interesting piece of work. I simultaneously feel like it actually has something to say and also that it has nothing to say. Im kind of conflicted on how to feel about it, but the idea of Bloom seems interesting but its has such a vague definition imo. I wonder if their is a companion reader for the book that would make stuff a bit more understandable, as the book is too vague.
>>2821001You have spent much time reading this and thinking about it and you can't say you have gotten anything out of it, but you feel that somehow there must be a payoff at some point down the line and so you keep going? Well, I have the perfect companion piece for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost >>2821481That perfectly describes my current situation with this book lol. It does have some good points and arguments but, like I said before, its too vague. At least, if I am ultimately not satisfied with the book, I'll know that Tiqqun and its affiliates are shit theorists.
>>2822941The question is, which ICP does the road lead to?
yo thanks for recommending proles.info , clicked out of curiosity but im really enjoying their writing. does this mean im a communizer now.
>>2824883Depends on whether you'd define yourself as one. I would like to ask, what does prole.info defend? What aspects of their theory did you like as I myself have never read them before.
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Shit theory thread 💩
Weak knees nerd thread 🤓
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