I’m getting really fucking sick of the Palestine Movement’s obsession with “celebrity” activists and how much it prioritizes these western activists over actual Palestinians.
All the time on social media I see incidents of sone western activist living in America losing their job for speaking out against Zionism and then proceed to raise $20,000+ through a GoFundMe account in response. All of that money could have been better spent by being directly given to Palestinian families in Gaza who lost everything because if the genocide, or at the very least organizations with a good reputation for helping Palestinians in Palestine. Western activists will survive without your $100 donation, Palestinian families in Gaza won’t.
Tgis obsession with propping up the personalities of “activist celebrities” is one reason the Palestine a movement has become such a clusterfuck. I’m talking about people like Hasan Piker, Greta Thunberg, Chris Smalls, Ms. Rachel, Kehlani, and Vic Mensa to name a few. How about we start focusing on actual Palestinians? The flotilla activists are the same way: they receive so much money and support when they know full well the Zionist authorities won’t let them into Gaza, making the flotillas merely a stunt. Yeah, they were tortured in Zionist prisons but so have thousands of Palestinians who will never have their voices heard in global media.
Or, when Elias Rodriguez goes to trial in a few months you can be sure he’s going to get tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of dollars in legal donations from Palestine activists. Gaza is suffering and yet you think giving money to a guy who will clearly be found guilty and spend the rest of his life in prison is a better use of your funds?
Celebrities and influencers should not be propped up on a pedestal at all but the same thing goes for these “I was fired for saying ‘Free Palestine’, I’m a martyr now, gib munny pls” types. Palestinians should be the ones centred here, not western activists who have made loads of money and clout for being pro-Palestine.
177 posts and 18 image replies omitted.>>2840598Even if Israel were to collapse, the American left has zero ability to accelerate that collapse. Like you said, Israeli tech and pharma companies are so embedded in the West that Israel is almost impossible to fully boycott. Plus, that just assumes boycotts will the the thing that "destroys" Israel, even though sanctions have been much more effective historically. And that even assumes that, even if it were possible to sanction Israel that Israel simply wouldn't find a way to be self-sufficient. They have the tech to grow a lot of their own food, for instance.
Also, a weak Israel means nothing without a strong Palestinian resistance. So far, nearly all of the resistance is coming from Gaza, not the West Bank. The Gaza genocide reduced 80% of the Strip to rubble and any Palestinian in Gaza with the means is looking to leave, not stay and fight. Hundreds of Palestinians were also made permanently disabled by the fighting. It's so bad that Hamas is using child soldiers now because they have to. So, even if Israel were on the brink of collapse, how would the Palestinians be able to win if they're too weak and can't do much?
>>2840614
I think what's interesting (as others ITT have pointed out) is how "Palestine" truly is a brand now. Even before, you had scholars like Norman Finkelstein, Joel Kovel (RIP), and Ilan Pappe who made their entire "brand" Palestine. Do they have any other theoretical insights? No, all they do is talk about Palestine and make careers off that. The amount of opportunism and grifting among these activists is astounding.
I also think, and please don't take this the wrong way, that these people don't really want the conflict to end. Like if there was a two-state solution on the '67 border tomorrow (complete fantasy but this is a hypothetical) those "professional Palestine activists" would break down and cry because it would mean that they've essentially lost their niche. You didn't see this with the anti-Apartheid South African struggle. It's not like Peter Gabriel or these other pop musicians who were active in anti-Apartheid flipped their shit when Mandela got out. But if the Palestine conflict ends, the Palestine activists (and scholars) lose their jobs, essentially. They have every incentive to want the genocide/war to keep going.
>>2840627They'll point to Cuba and how it's totally possible for insurgents to win
>>2840669The Batista regime didn't have nuclear weapons or one of the most technologically-advanced militaries in the world.
>>2840668Palestinians never compare Palestine to South Africa, they compare it to Algeria.
>>2840668>. Even before, you had scholars like Norman Finkelstein, Joel Kovel (RIP), and Ilan Pappe who made their entire "brand" Palestine. Do they have any other theoretical insights? No, all they do is talk about Palestine and make careers off that. The amount of opportunism and grifting among these activists is astounding.Tbf, that's kind of true for academia in general. After the Cold War, the left was basically dead and there wasn't any real leftist movement to attach itself to. A lot of the Western left ended up getting folded into the same academic circles.
I disagree with the idea that they don't want this conflict to end, they obviously do. It's just that they'd prefer a South Africa style outcome brought about through international pressure. The problem is that they're so tied to Western academia that they struggle to develop any worthwhile theory beyond gestures of BDS solidarity and they're also limited in their political tactics and often censor themselves because there are certain aspects of Israel they feel they can't openly discuss(like Jewish supremacy, the religious politics of the hilltop youth and building of the third-temple) Instead they end up constructing increasingly convoluted theories to justify their positions. In this conflict those contradictions are starting to become much harder to ignore.
>>2840673People on the left literally have no knowledge whatsoever of military matters.
>>2840746I wouldn't say that entirely. It's more that Palestine has become their "thing" the way that intersectional Black feminism has become a "thing" for many academics. And there are academics who openly talk about Jewish supremacy.
>>2840755>And there are academics who openly talk about Jewish supremacy.Who? they only refer to Jewish supremacy as being only white supremacy
>>2840627>Also, a weak Israel means nothing without a strong Palestinian resistance.<Palestine depends on "national liberators"Yeah they are doomed.
>>2840785Well yeah, with the exception of Cuba there’s never really been a guerrilla movement that managed to liberate a country entirely on its own. Most movements in the 19th century were basically groups of bandits or insurgents hiding out in the mountains because they knew they couldn’t realistically capture and hold major towns, so they stayed in those regions. The few that did succeed usually got significant help from a foreign power, that’s pretty much how it’s always worked. Even Cuba’s revolution wasn’t completely independent; there’s some evidence that the CIA provided limited support to Castro’s movement at certain points because they saw Batista as increasingly incompetent and damaging to US interests.
Hot take, but I feel like centring a socialist movement around Palestine is going to be a failure. Palestine has very little relevance for working people. “The US doesn’t have free healthcare because they spend all the money on Israel” doesn’t build momentum for socialism like you think it does.
>>284337720,000 from rightoids, why do you think they'll ever eempathize with Gaza?
>>2843395Tucker Carlson does.
>>2843377Gazauyghurs get millions in aid retard
>>2844746So why is Gaza still starving?
>>2844855Hamas routinely steals aid in order to keep Gaza’s population hungry enough that they’re willing to fight Israel. This has been documented.
Hot take, but “Palestine first” leftists are just as bad as “Israel first” neocons.
I don’t care about Palestine. I care that AMERICANS get healthcare, food, jobs, and housing. And no, I’m not buying the crap about how Israel is the only reason the US doesn’t have free healthcare. The money that goes to Israel doesn’t come from the same pool as the money that goes into healthcare does.
As well, why can’t the Palestine Firsters ever define what it means for Palestine to be “free?”
>>2848720>Jew admitsEverybody lies in politics, but when a jew says it, it's talmvdic wisdom goyim dont have access to lmfao. This place is on a halfchan trajectory in terms of autism score
>>2848725Leo Strauss and his disciples were basically doing pilpul. Same thing with Walter Benjamin and Theodor Adorno.
>stop being productive and look at the non-issue
oh nonononono glowiekeks…
>>2849784Based rabbi. Now I want to get cut.
>>2852773>not bring cut alreadyEwww
>>2821216>an organised movement to cut off aid to israel>it's lifeline>won't help the palestinian resistanceglowies actually think you'll fall for this
>>2854959All college activists will do is get their universities to divest from mutual funds with companies that do business with Israel. That’s it.
>>2821216>Only the Palestinian resistance willThen they are fucked lmao
>>2821216There is no "Palestinian resistance" anymore. Israel has killed all of Hamas' top guys and recently destroyed most of Hezbollah.
>>2855056Yes, I would fell much better knowing my tax dollars weren't being used to fund genocide. Apart from that I don't care.
>>2855307>muh tax dollars>Apart from that I don't careI hate liberals
>>2855326If Israel is no longer using American tax dollars we have no reason to care about Palestine. It becomes as irrelevant as caring about Armenia-Azerbaijan.
>>2855056Isn’t ending US aid to Israel the entire goal of the Palestine movement?
>>2855516That's a really dumb thing to say anon
>>2855910Yes.
But people who think Netanyahu/etc are serious about ending American aid to Israel are retards. Even if they did pull something it would be an empty stunt, there'd still be money/resources flowing, and a continued protection racket.
It's not just that Israel gets money and weapons, it's that Israel is allowed to act with impunity because America is standing 5 feet away ready to tackle anyone who tries to punch the bully back.
>>2856012Okay, so all we need to do is end US support for Israel and our job is done? Right?
>>2854967i haven't seen a single college bds org drop out of activism after divesting their institution, what i have seen is that they maintain said divestment and contribute to literally anything they can in their locality
you are parroting a culture war talking point squealed by chuds in an attempt to stall momentum
>>2857005we need to see her debate dr. haz al din of infrared university. he says marxism is islam.
>>2857005This is why social imperialism was progressive
>>2857090How many colleges have actually divested?
>>2857090>you are parroting a culture war talking point squealed by chuds in an attempt to stall momentumSure BDS loser
>NO YOU ARE CULTURE WAR>TRUST THE PLAN>THE STORM IS COMINGCome back when you have something to show for it. Actually don't. You'll just pretend it was you who got things done, like with SA, and the liberals will happily build their mythos around your brand of ineffective posturing.
>>2855056>CiviliansNormalization detected.
Israel has no right to defend itself, nor exist.
There is no acceptable level of warfare against Palestinians, who are a colonized people.
There aren't any acceptable rules of engagement for the Jewish state to perpetuate it's settler colonialism.
I hate Hasbara threads
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