I’m getting really fucking sick of the Palestine Movement’s obsession with “celebrity” activists and how much it prioritizes these western activists over actual Palestinians.
All the time on social media I see incidents of sone western activist living in America losing their job for speaking out against Zionism and then proceed to raise $20,000+ through a GoFundMe account in response. All of that money could have been better spent by being directly given to Palestinian families in Gaza who lost everything because if the genocide, or at the very least organizations with a good reputation for helping Palestinians in Palestine. Western activists will survive without your $100 donation, Palestinian families in Gaza won’t.
Tgis obsession with propping up the personalities of “activist celebrities” is one reason the Palestine a movement has become such a clusterfuck. I’m talking about people like Hasan Piker, Greta Thunberg, Chris Smalls, Ms. Rachel, Kehlani, and Vic Mensa to name a few. How about we start focusing on actual Palestinians? The flotilla activists are the same way: they receive so much money and support when they know full well the Zionist authorities won’t let them into Gaza, making the flotillas merely a stunt. Yeah, they were tortured in Zionist prisons but so have thousands of Palestinians who will never have their voices heard in global media.
Or, when Elias Rodriguez goes to trial in a few months you can be sure he’s going to get tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of dollars in legal donations from Palestine activists. Gaza is suffering and yet you think giving money to a guy who will clearly be found guilty and spend the rest of his life in prison is a better use of your funds?
Celebrities and influencers should not be propped up on a pedestal at all but the same thing goes for these “I was fired for saying ‘Free Palestine’, I’m a martyr now, gib munny pls” types. Palestinians should be the ones centred here, not western activists who have made loads of money and clout for being pro-Palestine.
104 posts and 9 image replies omitted.>>2822423Iran doesn’t even support Palestine. Most of Palestine’s support comes from Qatar and Türkiye.
>>2822487>campaigns meticulously designed by fight agency are "the people" having influenceCampaigns meticuously designed by Fight Agency that Israel is desperately trying to stop. Look I dgaf about streamers in general, but it seems like incredibly poor strategy to cede the American electoral arena entirely to Israel and pro-Israel politicians.
>>2823186Yeah, Turkiye, a NATO member. Right.
ah charlotte and mckayleigh and their causes célèbres…
>>2822423>Only Palestinians on the ground can do that.That might be the dumbest thing said in this entire fucking thread. Holy shit have you paid attention to the past 20 years?
>we should be supporting IranYou can do more than one thing at once.
But if you are American or in a country that gives material support to Israel, you should be putting all your energy into eliminating that support.
>>2823437>That might be the dumbest thing said in this entire fucking thread. Holy shit have you paid attention to the past 20 years?What makes you not have faith in the Palestinian resistance?
>>2823181>Hamas steals all Palestinian charity money>Gazans will never stop doing this horror to themselvesDoes this place ever stop regurgitating the same tired Hasbara talking points ever
>>2823503Was Palestine better off before or after October 7th?
>>2823557After, because Oct 7th proved to the world Zionism is a paper tiger. The Zionist entity is currently being drained from years of endless war. Their population is coming undone and more and more of them are fleeing. The whole world has effectively turned against the Zionists and they know it.
>>2823998>70,000 Palestinians are dead>hundreds of thousands are wounded and permanently disabled >80% of Gaza’s buildings have been turned to rubble>city of Rafah no longer existsBuy yeah, they got the PR they wanted I guess
>>2824135Ok so what's the alternative? Slow genocide?
>>2824136That implies the same number would have died eventually. You’re also not taking the massive amount of damage to infrastructure. There was no famine in Gaza prior to the October 7th attacks and Gaza’s hospitals were still up and running.
>>2823113Your flawed assumption is that you can transfer attention from people to causes freely. A world in which Toby Fox doesn't virtue signal on Palestine is not a world in which less attention goes to Toby Fox and more goes to Palestine, it is a world in which an equal amount of attention goes to Toby Fox and less goes to Palestine.
afaik Toby has been silent on Palestine as you wish - but Palestine hasn't swiped any attention from Deltarune at all!If you want the average American to care about Palestine, "caring about Palestine will tell everyone you are a virtuous person" is news you can use and "omg, poor people are dying far far away" is Wednesday. This is a game where lonely martyrdom gets you nothing and celebrity is a win-win. You want to be told that helping Palestine means personal sacrifice, but you want the sacrifice to be painful, you've been equipped for that by two thousand years of Jesus nailed to the cross. Being nailed to a cross is paradise compared to being told that the most effective thing you can do to help Palestine as a first worlder is gauche self promotion to ADD zoomers.
>>2821051>All the time on social media I see incidents of sone western activist living in America losing their job for speaking out against Zionism and then proceed to raise $20,000+ through a GoFundMe account in response.Only semi-related, but I find it interesting to see how much GFM has gentrified mutual aid in a way nearly identical to how Onlyfans has gentrified sex work. For instance, when Johnny gets threatened with eviction by a scumbag landlord, comrades don’t organize an eviction defence like they would have done ten years ago, they just donate to his GFM so he can pay rent for the next three months. Comrades no longer set up Food Not Bombs tables, since serving free food in the middle of the city has become effectively obsolete now that GFM pays for everyone’s groceries when they’re low on cash. Mutual aid is supposed to be subversive in that it challenges the existing capitalist structures and opens up possibilities for the creation of new forms of relationships between people. GFM does none of that and exists merely to keep people temporarily well-off in a crumbling system. Online donation campaigns are also noticeably impersonal. I think this is a subject we need to address more often.
im getting sick of palestine in general
>>2824228I’m getting sick of how the left focuses 99% of their attention on Palestine all while making minimal progress.
>>2824255the left makes minimal progress on anything it focuses all their attention on. why would you rather we redirected that energy to the usual masturbatory bullshit about whether we'll have icecream under communism?
>>2824258I’d rather see the left form a coherent strategy that stops a genocide within two weeks instead of two years.
>>2824255>>2824260Ah yes why hasn't the left tried the incredible strategy of
>just do it lolWhy didn't anyone think of that? Marx could have learned a lot from you!
>>2824223>Mutual aid is supposed to be subversive in that it challenges the existing capitalist structures and opens up possibilities for the creation of new forms of relationships between people. Right, it's a dual-power strategy, like the point of the Black Panther Party's free breakfast programs (which were combined with education), free medical clinics, etc. was to create alternative institutions that could supplant the state.
>>2824228‘Getting sick’ of hearing of/talking about an ongoing genocide says a lot more about you than you think it does about the movement
>>2824198So what exactly is the goal here in regards to Israel having really bad PR? A lot of American leftists keep parroting the assumption that the only reason the US supports Israel is due to a massive lobbying effort from AIPAC and the like, and more public support for Palestine would cause people (especially millennials and zoomers) to vote for anti-AIPAC candidates. Never mind the fact that there are many more geopolitical reasons why the US supports Israel and AIPAC is only one factor.
>>2821152>Channer contrarianism truly knows no bounds.Nah. It always has been a socdem natioanlist movement. Thank Stalin for enacting socialism in one promised state.
>but if you actually want Israel gone and replaced with a Palestinian stateNot revolutionary in the slightest
>>2824289The only way the American left could make any real material impact when it comes to helping the Palestinians defeat Israel (which again, what does a "defeat for Israel" mean in this context?) is by being strong and coherent enough to successfully demand short-term concessions like sanctions on Israel. So far, the American left is years away from being that powerful. You honestly believe the midterms will see a wave of anti-Zionist Democrats ascend to Congress, and those said politicians will have enough outside support to be able to impose policies that would seriously make a difference for the Palestinian people in Palestine?
C'mon. Most American leftists won't even risk jail blockading weapons shipments.
>>2821152>The general dislike of Israel will eventually translate into a removal of US subsidy to Israel, which will precipitate its collapse as a viable state.And this means what? Americans vote for anti-Israel politicians?
>>2824343I hope you're not the same guy I was responding to.
>>2821051Is there any chance the Palestine Movement can lead America to socialism? If not, why bother?
>>2824410>Killing Palestine is killing all of us.Bullshit
>>2824223Counterpoint: GFM is the only way most Americans can afford healthcare.
>>2824447>Is there any chance the Palestine Movement can lead America to socialism? If not, why bother?Are Americans actually this comically self-centered?
>>2824330>‘Getting sick’ of hearing of/talking about an ongoing genocide says a lot more about you than you think it does about the movementIt's a weird thing, but I think a lot more popular (normie) animus in America towards Israel is actually related to this. I don't know how many people watched the New York mayoral debate, but Andrew Cuomo would just be like "uhh Mr. Mamdani… ISRAEL" and people were just like what the FUCK does this have to do with being the mayor of New York. The news anchors asking questions were like Israel, Israel, ISRAEL. People are just like where the fuck is this coming from. I think part of the story is that elites got really shook by Oct. 7 and all that. Many of the people I'm talking about are not Jewish BTW, they can be gentiles (who also identify with rich Jews socially) and very much identify with the establishment. But their fixation just sounds bizarre to a lot of people who don't really care that much about the whole thing.
That also goes for not caring that much about Palestinians. Like, Palestine protests on college campuses was a noticeably elite-school phenomenon. It was not as much of a phenomenon at most state colleges in the flyover states. I think a lot of normies see it as not involving them, it's a foreign conflict between two alien peoples who are not Americans but they've "brought it over here" and "that's not how we do things around here."
In any event, idk what OP is on about, but AIPAC usually does well when they try to fuck up a politician who doesn't toe the line on Israel by largely avoiding the issue and instead focusing on them being a bad politician, or disloyal to the party's leader. Like Thomas Massie was disloyal to Trump and is a fake RINO. They did this to Jamaal Bowman on the Democratic side as well by saying he was disloyal to Biden and didn't vote for his Build Back Better bill or whatever.
>>2825227>That also goes for not caring that much about Palestinians. Like, Palestine protests on college campuses was a noticeably elite-school phenomenon. It was not as much of a phenomenon at most state colleges in the flyover states. I think a lot of normies see it as not involving them, it's a foreign conflict between two alien peoples who are not Americans but they've "brought it over here" and "that's not how we do things around here."I'd add to this and say that nearly all the Palestine protests overall were in large cities in the blue states or cities with sizable Arab and Muslim populations like Boston or Detroit. You didn't see any Palestine protests in the poorer states like Kentucky or Oklahoma.
>>2825214it's self centered only if you think socialism is le heckin' free healthcare in one country
>>2822180>Bisan Owda was able to raise $400k early in the Gaza genocide on the basis she was going to use the money to get her family and many others out of Gaza. Turns out she pocketed all the money and claimed she needed it for herself as reimbursement for a business she was trying to start before the genocide broke out. When did this happen?
>>2824447The only thing that makes most Americans anti-war is if the war causes gas prices to go up.
Gush Etzion Council Admits There Has Been Ritualistic Sexual Abuse>In an unprecedented public statement, the Gush Etzion Regional Council acknowledged ritualistic sexual abuse cases in its communities following a bombshell Kan 11 investigation, ending a long period of denial and urging victims to come forward.
>In a dramatic reversal that marks a turning point in one of Israel's most disturbing abuse scandals, the Gush Etzion Regional Council has issued an unprecedented public statement acknowledging ritualistic sexual abuse cases within its communities, ending a prolonged period of denial and silence.
>The extraordinary statement came in direct response to a bombshell investigative report by journalist Roni Zinger, aired on Kan 11's "Zman Emet" program. The broadcast presented testimonies from five different women, most of whom did not know each other, who described strikingly similar patterns of multi-perpetrator ritualistic sexual abuse occurring in the same areas of Gush Etzion. The program also featured recordings, filmed confrontations, and testimony from professionals who had accompanied the complainants over the years, building an evidentiary foundation that left little room for doubt.https://www.jfeed.com/news-israel/gush-etzion-ritualistic-abuse
>Last year a young woman called Shoshana Strook, the daughter of the well known settler Member of Knesset Orit Strook, came out in a series of social media posts where she described how she had been sexually tortured and abused as a little child by her parents as part of horrific rituals where children were subjected to the most hellish torment and abuse anyone could imagine.
>Shoshana Strook was found dead in a motel room in Israel on March 14 of this year.
>I left the Jewish religion when I was 15: it was much easier for me to do than quitting Zionism and Israel. Today I can say, with all honesty, that there are not many things that scare and repulse me more in life. I don’t even want to be associated with this anymore. I want nothing to do with it. Absolutely nothing.https://substack.com/home/post/p-199506268 >>2825602The grift from "Jewish News", surely, right, cunt?
>>2821051there is a problem with gatekeeping to only allow palestinian voices and that is that israel has found gusanos they can bribe, and everyone else is forced to pull their punches because israel has their family hostage.
>>2825701No one is saying listen yo Palestinian gusanos.
Apart from Gilad Atzmon I can't think of a single based jew
>>2825602Don’t give to this woman’s GFM. Give to orgs helping Gaza rebuild instead.
>>2825608Okay, and how will Hasan fix this problem?
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