I’m getting really fucking sick of the Palestine Movement’s obsession with “celebrity” activists and how much it prioritizes these western activists over actual Palestinians.
All the time on social media I see incidents of sone western activist living in America losing their job for speaking out against Zionism and then proceed to raise $20,000+ through a GoFundMe account in response. All of that money could have been better spent by being directly given to Palestinian families in Gaza who lost everything because if the genocide, or at the very least organizations with a good reputation for helping Palestinians in Palestine. Western activists will survive without your $100 donation, Palestinian families in Gaza won’t.
Tgis obsession with propping up the personalities of “activist celebrities” is one reason the Palestine a movement has become such a clusterfuck. I’m talking about people like Hasan Piker, Greta Thunberg, Chris Smalls, Ms. Rachel, Kehlani, and Vic Mensa to name a few. How about we start focusing on actual Palestinians? The flotilla activists are the same way: they receive so much money and support when they know full well the Zionist authorities won’t let them into Gaza, making the flotillas merely a stunt. Yeah, they were tortured in Zionist prisons but so have thousands of Palestinians who will never have their voices heard in global media.
Or, when Elias Rodriguez goes to trial in a few months you can be sure he’s going to get tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of dollars in legal donations from Palestine activists. Gaza is suffering and yet you think giving money to a guy who will clearly be found guilty and spend the rest of his life in prison is a better use of your funds?
Celebrities and influencers should not be propped up on a pedestal at all but the same thing goes for these “I was fired for saying ‘Free Palestine’, I’m a martyr now, gib munny pls” types. Palestinians should be the ones centred here, not western activists who have made loads of money and clout for being pro-Palestine.
I'm getting sick of the palestine movement in general. What progress have we even made? There's still tons of funding going to israel they're still killing the same amount of people.
Literally the only real thing to come from this is a general dislike of israel among gen z but those guys are insanely retarded and can't really be mobilized to do anything
>>2821051What’s wrong with Kehlani and Vic Mensa? They make good music.
>>2821051Mutual aid is a key part of activism. Are we going to let Zios fire activists without ensuring those activists have a means of survival? This is just activism 101. You help others not let Zios throw them into poverty. It also shows Zios that we care for our own and nothing they do to us is going to stop us.
>>2821065What “poverty?” You don’t think Palestinians in Gaza are facing some of the worst living conditions in the world? Aiden and Ava will survive being fired from McDonalds.
>daily hasbara thread
so tiresome
>>2821089Nothing OP is saying is hasbara. Worshipping celebrity activists has been a problem in the left for years. I’m so old I remember when you couldn’t say anything remotely critical of Noam Chomsky within a 10-mileradius of an infoshop without being tarred and feathered by angry anarkids.
>I’m getting really fucking sick of the Palestine Movement
Me too
>>2821106What did OP say that was inaccurate?
>>2821108Well I don’t think that what the Celebrities are doing is bad but I understand OP’s grievance of wanting the media to focus on the Palestinians themselves, but what I don’t understand is why OP is Pro-Putin sense Putin is a Zionist pedophile
>>2821116Putin has consistently stood against Zionism. Bibi hates him.
>>2821051Protip: most of those “Palestinian charities” are secretly run by Israel. Donating to activists helps them destabilize American politics. The more unstable America is the faster Zionism will end.
>>2821128do you have any proofs that palestinian charities are run by israel?
>>2821135They don't you are literally replying to hasbara
>pro-palestine/anti-israel sentiment becomes popular>/leftypol/ starts seething about the pro-palestine movementLike clockwork. "Politics on the internet is fundamentally downstream of personality" theory never fails. Channer contrarianism truly knows no bounds.
>>2821051What will giving the money to Palestinians achieve on a strategic level? You make a great anti-western moralist sort of case, but if you actually want Israel gone and replaced with a Palestinian state, you're going to have to get the US out of the region. That means changing US policy, which means US and general first world activists. You can quibble on the margins (someone using the money on court fees is probably doing better work than someone using the money to buy themselves a nicer apartment) but that's the reality of the situation.
Centering Palestinians sounds good, but what it means in practice is making people not care. Poor people dying in a poor part of the world? Day ending in a Y. What'll actually sink Israel is the combination of reveling in being massive cunts and a total omerta on criticizing them amongst establishment figures, with the net result of making any non-evil non-retarded westerner feel personally insulted.
>>2821053The general dislike of Israel will eventually translate into a removal of US subsidy to Israel, which will precipitate its collapse as a viable state.
>>2821147Your typical American worker doesn’t care about Palestine. Literally, the only thing that makes them anti-war is the price of gas.
>>2821152The whole point is to centre Palestinians, idiot. This movement isn’t your clout game.
>>2821156The point is to liberate Palestine, "centering" is just datedly woke-coded vagueposting (and based on the false premise that clout is of both fixed supply, and easily transferable, as though any of those celebs could simply give all their clout to a random Palestinian nobody's ever heard of.)
>>2821177How do you liberate Palestine without centring Palestinians? Do explain.
>>2821174What exactly w happened to Smalls? Why did he and the Amazon Union have a falling out? Didn’t it have something to do with the Teamsters?
Im getting really sick of the hasbara faggots of this board
>>2821214College campus activists won’t liberate Palestine. Only the Palestinian resistance will.
>>2821216If college campus activists won't liberate palestine and are functionally irrelevant, why waste your time demanding that they "center"* Palestinian resistance?
*
a signifier so floating that i'd wager it could raise the titanic. >>2821221>a signifierExplain, please.
>>2821232"Centering" is a floating signifier, i.e. a word which does not clearly refer to any particular thing or action, which can mean whatever the author or reader wants it to mean. It carries the appearance of some kind of strong demand to do more for Palestine while actually being totally hollow.
>>2821051How do we get money to the Palestinian families though?
Zionists have already caught on to this:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DYsAyq-sqVS/Again, stop donating to activists’ GFMs.
You are posting in a psy-op thread.
The flotilla operations and their arrest resulted in immediate sanctions against Israel.
>>2821221Western activists (particularly American ones) have been dogshit at liberating Palestine. Boycotts, mass protests, and making lists of AIPAC-funded candidates have done very little to nothing to stop American aid to Israel. It’s the same cycle of protesting that American leftists have been doing for the past 35 years without building any structure or consistent strategy. If I’m going to throw money away I’d rather give it to a GFM made by a Palestinian instead of a GFM made by a white guy from Wicker Park who got sacked from his bank teller job for wearing a keffiyeh to work.
>>2821051I mean, the absolute worst example of this is Hasanabi, a man with absolutely no insight on anything that made hundreds of millions from stealing other people's labour in videos and paying them in "exposure".
The Palestine movement is full of scumbags from Islamists to millionaires that are using the socialist movement for their own ends and will dump it as soon as they get they want out of it.
>>2821283>It’s the same cycle of protesting that American leftists have been doing for the past 35 years Public opinion of Israel amongst Americans is in freefall. 35 years ago nobody gave a fuck and American public opinion was much more favorable to Israel than to Palestine. Now, for the first time in the history of US polling, Palestine has higher favorables than Israel. Democrats overwhelmingly favor Palestine (this wasn't the case as recently as 2022! Israel was 13 points ahead in 2019!)
Israel was seen favorably by 75% of Americans in 2021, today that number is 46% and propped up almost entirely by Republicans. (Independents are equally favorable to both and Dems - who were more favorable to Israel as recently as
2024 - now prefer the Palestinian Territories to Israel by 14 points.)
I'm not going to sit and pretend that American activists have gone and saved Palestine overnight, but there's a plausible pathway to the collapse of Israel in the medium to long term that did not exist at any other point in the last 35 years. It is an American client state which is now loathed and detested by Americans. That is not a sustainable position and in large part it has been pro-Palestine protestors (and the disproportionate crackdown on them) that has kept this a live enough issue for that to have happened.
It won't take any particularly coherent organizing to have that trickle through: An opportunist abundance lib might be all it takes.
>I'm sick of performative, APOLITICAL activism>Which achieves literally nothing >And it is paid for and used by the worst people imaginable, with the worst politics imaginable>To normalize themselves and form a new crop of PR parasitesPrepare to get pelted by culture warriors who don't understand the 2025-2026 flotilla was a PR maneuver from (mostly EU) liberal Zios.
To give cover for the Palestinian resistance being forced into a "ceasefire" under threat of literal complete extermination (at the height of the enforced siege famine). Which the EU and everyone else of relevance sponsored by making it clear that no, they would not do anything at all, even if Israel starved and shot every single human being in the strip. they would watch as every last man woman and child gets starved, shot, or dies of every sort of deprivation. Even if the Zionists made a daily spectacle by slow famine and cruel gamified executions at the GHF sites, they,the entire fucking world told the Palestinians that yeah, there would be no stopping that unless they accepted a ceasefire and Israel's terms. So get going.
And lo and fucking behold, soon enough the whole Board of Peace racket and is presented for, again, most of the world, to sign on to. Certainly the UNSC put their actual signature on making Trump colonial governor of Gaza for life.
While everyone else rushed to make their best relief impressions and pretend they hadn't just written in stone the re-colonization of Gaza and immunity for the perpetrators of Palestinian genocide.
>"OH gosh we gotta stop the killing!"Until the PR heat is gone, then they forget about Gaza for another half a year, because fuck you it's on paper now, we own your ass.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_2803https://docs.un.org/en/S/RES/2803(2025) >>2821319>Prepare to get pelted by culture warriors who don't understand the 2025-2026 flotilla was a PR maneuver from (mostly EU) liberal Zios. Why is glowposting allowed?
>>2821122This isn't /pol/
Trvke
>>2821294>Public opinion of Israel amongst Americans is in freefall.Okay, and what happens because of that? What should American activists do to take advantage of this? More protests? More BDS? Vote in politicians who are anti-Zionist? What?
>but there's a plausible pathway to the collapse of Israel "Israel will collapse and the Jews will naturally flee, I am putting all my eggs in this one highly specific basket because I am obviously very smart."
And what happens when Israel doesn't collapse when US aid starts to diminish? What's plan B?
>>2821319>Prepare to get pelted by culture warriors who don't understand the 2025-2026 flotilla was a PR maneuver from (mostly EU) liberal Zios.
>To give cover for the Palestinian resistance being forced into a "ceasefire" under threat of literal complete extermination (at the height of the enforced siege famine). Which the EU and everyone else of relevance sponsored by making it clear that no, they would not do anything at all, even if Israel starved and shot every single human being in the strip.This is exactly why actual Palestinian people don't care about the flotilla stuff. They know it's all for show. Your average Palestinian doesn't give a fuck about Greta fucking Thunberg or any of the other activists on those boats.
Not a single person ITT can explain why giving money to people who get fired after screaming FREE PALESTINE at work does anything to support Palestine. SAD!
>>2821144I love Kehlani's music but she's a goldmine of bullshit takes. She went on a five-story rant over IG the other day defending Michael Jackson touching kids.
>>2821051If you're profiting from your activism you're doing it wrong.
>>2821174I became suspicious as soon as mainstream magazines were doing features on him. There will never be a genuine socialist that the editor of Vogue likes.
>>2821391Oh yeah? And what are you doing to help Palestinians? Shitposting online and not even donating to help those who lost their entire livelihoods due to speaking out against the Zionists?
>>2821051>Tgis obsession with propping up the personalities of “activist celebrities” is one reason the Palestine a movement has become such a clusterfuck. I’m talking about people like Hasan Piker, Greta Thunberg, Chris Smalls, Ms. Rachel, Kehlani, and Vic Mensa to name a few. Bro, what? You do realize the right has plenty of activist celebrities of its own, right? And that those right-wing activist celebrities are a big reason as to why the right is so popular with zoomers. Right-wingers have Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, Andrew Tate, the Fresh and Fit guys, Nick Fuentes, Sneako, Adin Ross, Clavicular, and plenty of others who all rode the MAGA wave. They even have Kanye fucking West. Who do we have besides Hasan, Mamdani, and AOC? Celebrity activists get people interested in leftism. People, especially younger people, want guru figures who can explain the world to them (that's why Gen X and millennial leftists worshipped Noam Chomsky). We need those same types of people or else we're going to lose.
Shit That Doesnt Matter Award
>>2821152>if you actually want Israel gone and replaced with a Palestinian state, you're going to have to get the US out of the regionThis is obvious to anyone who's not hasbara. The only way to stop Israel is to pull the plug on US support. That means working within the US. "Centering Palestinians" is liberal charity fetishism and just maintains the status quo at best. Hasbara knows this which is why they attack first-world activists.
You can tell they really hate Hasan in particular. Astroturfed online hate campaigns, attacks by the media, attacks by bribed politicians, even fucking subpoenas. All because he's a high-profile anti-Zionist. And it's only increased his profile, much to their frustration. My guess is an assassination attempt is next.
>>2821319 (me)
And lets be very fucking clear now, on the lows of the perfidious "liberal left". All the socdems, and harm reduction, identity politics obsessed "progressives" and so on who WORK EVERY DAY TO DISTRACT YOU FROM THIS FACT:
THEY ARE DOING THE SAME TO CUBATHEY WILL FUCKING WATCH AND WRING THEIR HANDS WHILE CUBANS ARE GENOCIDEDUNTIL SUCH A TIME THAT CUBA IS FORCED TO ACCEPT THE TERMS OF THE USASocdems are
NOT the moderate wing of fascism anymore. When that phrase was coined, communism was taking root across Europe and scaring the living shit out of the bourgeoisie. Socdems were obliged to make concessions to avert the very real possibility of a pan-European revolution.
Sodems today have to offer NOTHING because there are no alternatives and no big powers in the world who seek to alter the globalized capitalism status quo. Socdems ARE FASCISTS. They are genocidal fascists with PR team. And they are getting away with it, whether US hegemony survives the process or not.
>>2821051It's really easy to go to a restaurant that does not support genocide, show some solidarity.
>>2821483So we should ignore the obvious opportunists who use Palestine for their own benefit?
>>2821893You should ignore most people most of the time.
>>2821483Hasan is a SocDem idiot. Why aren’t we promoting Palestinian activists instead?
>>2822042Are you suggesting the Palestinian resistance can’t win? That’s like saying the FLN “needed” western activists to liberate Algeria from France.
>>2822048Your position is substantially worse than the idea that the FLN needed western activists to liberate Algeria. Your position, such as it is, is that the Palestinian resistance needs to be "promoted" by western activists, and that such promotion would be of more aid to them than any push to get the US to stop bankrolling their primary opponent.
Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe!
I honestly just miss the shitshow of 2020. Say what you will about George Floyd but the fact remains that in the dead middle of a pandemic we did more for one man than we have since done for fuckty shit thousand children. Actual circus.
>>2822100I'm not sure this is true. There was more media spectacle / acceptance from high ranking officials because we were still in the period of the bourgeoisie trying to co-opt progressive social movements, so a lot of it was like pushing on an open door, but in terms of actual meaningful change what actually came of it? And how long did it endure before the high ranking officials got bored and the bourgeois realized, there and in other areas, that they couldn't co-opt so they'd have to repress?
Meanwhile the pro-Palestine movement has been opposed at every turn and yet is still going strong after 3 years. When you account for the level of resistance, western activists have done a lot more for Palestinians than for Floyd. That they couldn't save either of them doesn't alter that.
>>2822100it was the generational protest before they become disillusioned forever and completely tune out of politics,boomer had 1960 for that
>>2822073How does giving money to western activists help Palestine?
>>2822073You’d be hard pressed to claim a nepo baby like Hasan is more deserving of your money than a Palestinian family in Gaza.
>>2822152>>2822154You are moving the goalposts to money because you cannot possibly row back from the idea of "Promotion" as valuable in and of itself.
My position on money is that you should keep your money.
>>2822152>>2822154The Palestinian resistance has been utterly worthless in liberating Palestine. They’ve tried violent resistance and it failed. They tried non-violent resistance and it failed. The only solution is to pour all of our resources into activists in America who can topple American aid to Zionism. More money to activists means a stronger Palestinian solidarity movement. I’d much rather give money to Hasan when he has an enormous reach than give it to Gazans who will spend it on lentils and socks instead of guns. Many of these “Palestinian GFMs” are made by scammers anyway. Bisan Owda was able to raise $400k early in the Gaza genocide on the basis she was going to use the money to get her family and many others out of Gaza. Turns out she pocketed all the money and claimed she needed it for herself as reimbursement for a business she was trying to start before the genocide broke out. My point is that a lot of Palestinians aren’t trustworthy and will take advantage of western sympathies to them.
Donating to activists who were fired from their work for supporting Palestine also shows Zionists that their threats against us aren’t working since we are stronger than them. Everyone should feel a moral duty to give money to “activist celebrities” due this reason alone. I will stream Kehlani’s new album as much as I can because I want her to get richer than pop stars who are Zios or who work with Zios.
>>2821051>Tgis obsession with propping up the personalities of “activist celebrities” is one reason the Palestine a movement has become such a clusterfuck. I’m talking about people like Hasan Piker, Greta Thunberg, Chris Smalls, Ms. Rachel, Kehlani, and Vic Mensa to name a few. How about we start focusing on actual Palestinians? The flotilla activists are the same way: they receive so much money and support when they know full well the Zionist authorities won’t let them into Gaza, making the flotillas merely a stunt. Yeah, they were tortured in Zionist prisons but so have thousands of Palestinians who will never have their voices heard in global media.I think we can all admit Palestine has become a brand.
>>2821144Kek, I knew Greta was a red herring.
>>2821051>Yeah, they were tortured in Zionist prisons but so have thousands of Palestinians who will never have their voices heard in global media.And perhaps this is the goal and purpose of the Flotilla? I'm certain that all the activists on the ships knew that Israel was going to intercept them, but they've still sailed – you know why? Because they knew the Western news cycle and social media has this exact double standard you've stated. One western activist's abuse will receive media attention tenfold to that of Palestinians, and this is a fact that we cannot change. People will keep being racist and subconsciously ignore Palestinian voices as long as we as a society hold familiarity bias, so why not at least get eyes on the horrors the Israeli regime is inflicting?
Nobody listens unless to abuse unless it's white, western abuse and the Flotilla activists harnessed this perfectly. Governments around the world have had to condemn Ben Gvir and issue travel bans, not because he's done something novel, but because he's exacted his typical violence against someone the west sees as human. Even if the Flotilla activists, in some deep part of them just wanted to be seen as saviors, the outrage they have generated is working to undo decades of Hasbara and showing the casual brutality Israel inflicts.
If you are able to find a way to uplift Palestinian voices in a landscape that simply just does not listen, I would celebrate. But as it stands, this Flotilla 'stunt' may just be the only language the average westerner can understand.
>>2821893Yes.
If there's a small leak in a water pipe, you don't shut off the whole reservoir and let everyone die of thirst. You have to look at the bigger picture. When you have a movement this large and high profile, of course there will be grifters. But the energy that those grifters leech pales in comparison to the amount of energy that would be lost if we ground everything to a halt and engaged in a mass purity campaign. By overstating the problem you are also undermining the movement.
I get it's the internet so it's easy to be retarded and generalize everything, but you're not being helpful by being a whiny drama queen.
By all means call out grifters, but don't do it at the expense of the larger movement. Have some fucking nuance.
>>2822010Hasan is doing 100000x more for the cause than all of his "troo leftists" critics combined. The fact that he's facing this much resistance from the Zionist establishment is proof.
PRO-FUCKING-TIP: Pay attention to who's getting attacked by hasbara. They are the ones who are the biggest threats to Zionism and must be supported. Two big examples are Hasan Piker and Graham Platner. Shut the fuck up about fake reddit drama and tattoos, the goal is to defeat Israel.
>>2822421Hasan isn’t going to destroy Israel. Only Palestinians on the ground can do that. If anything, we should be supporting Iran on the basis Iran has the ability to nuke “Tel Aviv” to the Stone Age.
>>2822423what useful "support" could
you possibly offer Iran?
>>2822438Demand the sanctions on them be lifted.
>>2822440not a terrible answer in principle, but what odds of success do you think you'll have? what consequences can you impose if your demands are not followed? if there are none, they cannot really be considered demands at all.
>>2822441insofar as Americans could do this, it would mostly be a waste of time. unlike the Iraq war where the general public considered it a good idea at the time and there was a large need for activists to move public opinion (which was ultimately successful), the Iran war has been an obvious disaster from day 1 and has only gotten worse over time as Iran itself had the ability to impose consequences on the US and wider world by closing the strait of Hormuz.
you may as well organize to make the sun come up tomorrow morning.
>>2821483>You can tell they really hate Hasan in particular.Yeah they do. I think the reason they go after Hasan in particular is because he has a large platform and tries to get progressives elected into office. They don't want people to have influence in American politics.
>>2821051>Kehlani, and Vic MensaBillie Eilish and her brother have been far worse in using Palestine activism to appear radikewl. Vic Mensa is at least smart. Billie is a blathering idiot.
Realistically, what exactly is the gameplan in regards to Hasan?
We give Hasan money, he expands his reach (maybe even runs for political office), zoomers who hear him get inspired to vote for anti-Zionist politicians, anti-Zionist politicians get voted into Congress, they get the US to stop giving aid to Israel, without US aid Israel collapses, 7 million Jews flee, Palestinians rise up and take back the homes they lost in 1948, everything is sunshine and rainbows now.
Am I missing something here?
>>2822494Yes. That is the plan.
>>2822494you've done the "jews flee" thing before. but why would they flee? no, really, why not just stay put in multi-racial palestine? why assume the collapse of israel takes the form of imploding like somalia instead of recognizing the underlying trends and sailing into the wind like de Klerk?
the number of white south africans has remained basically static since the collapse of apartheid: 800k left when mandela was elected, then in 1996 the population was 4.4 million and today it is 4.5 million. if they could stay put, so could Palestinian Jews.
>>2822509Palestinians do not want to share their land with settler colonials. They want ALL of Palestine back which means the settlers living in homes stolen in 1948 must be deported.
>>2822494>>2822509Israel wouldn't "collapse" in a short time either. If they knew they were losing US aid they'd simply appeal more to India. Plus, Bibi isn't going to be in power much longer (he's old FFS) and Israelis might elect a new PM who is able to win over Europe.
>>2822511I don’t think this is true
>>2822494Step 1: feed Hasan money
Step 2: ????
Step 3: PROFIT
>>2821051>Or, when Elias Rodriguez goes to trial in a few months you can be sure he’s going to get tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of dollars in legal donations from Palestine activists. Gaza is suffering and yet you think giving money to a guy who will clearly be found guilty and spend the rest of his life in prison is a better use of your funds? It's the thought that counts.
>>2821483A subpoena is not an indictment, idiot. It's not like he's becoming a political prisoner.
>>2821051Its a status game of virtue signaling. Palestinians have very little to do with this display of virtue.
>>2821053millennials and gen alpha are also anti-israel.
they've lost the war of words, if nothing else.
>>2821053but yes, I agree. Until the Hollywood and Senatorial apologists are afraid to come in favor of Zionism, real change won't happen.
>>2822180>The Palestinian resistance has been utterly worthless in liberating Palestine.Please tell that to the face of a Palestinian and see how they respond.
>>2822913Why can’t they win after 80 years of non-stop fighting?
>>2822220>>2822593Reminds me of how everyone suddenly loves Drake again because he called out DJ Khaled for not speaking up when Gaza was being bombed.
We all know Drake is half Ashkenazi Jewish and half Black. When Drake was beefing with Kendrick Lamar two years ago the consensus was Drake was “the Epstein”. A lot of the backlash Drake got was very much centred around him being Jewish and thus a “thief” and a “parasite”.
Now that Drake has come out as pro-Palestine, he’s back to being Black. He’s a “real one” because he’s anti-Zionist. Okay, so what’s the logic here? Palestine outweighs literally everything, apparently.
>>2823057
I guess he means the ones that moved to germany or France
>>2821051>All the time on social media I see incidents of sone western activist living in America losing their job for speaking out against Zionism and then proceed to raise $20,000+ through a GoFundMe account in response. All of that money could have been better spent by being directly given to Palestinian families in Gaza who lost everything because if the genocide, or at the very least organizations with a good reputation for helping Palestinians in Palestine. Western activists will survive without your $100 donation, Palestinian families in Gaza won’t.Giving money to activists’ GFMs after they get fired for being pro-Palestine encourages other people to speak out for Palestine. That’s the point, dumbass. It’s to show Zionists we won’t be silent.
>>2822593You say this as a condemnation but if there's one thing the last few years have demonstrated it's that virtue signalling is fine. There are a lot of people out there who're into vice signalling! "You're only pretending to care about dead children to look good" - well that would be a damning charge if we weren't in a world where people will emphasize that they're glad those children are dead because
they want to look bad!
A status game that rewards looking good will to some extent proxy being good. ("They're only voting to cut aid to Israel to look good" - so what? They can be doing it because a businessman with a grudge gave them a million dollar bribe and it'd still be the right thing to do.)
>>2823088The problem is, using Palestine for virtue points takes the focus off of Palestine and places it on the person doing the virtue signalling. We aren’t in this movement to make ourselves look good, we’re in it to stop an 80-year genocide and 120-year settler-colonialism.
>>2823115
Disassociate with the grifters.
>>2821051Interesting how nearly all the people who engage these types of antics at work knowing they’ll be fired are white.
My guess is, black and brown people can’t afford to risk their employment like this.
>>2821051>All of that money could have been better spent by being directly given to Palestinian families in GazaWhen this happens, the money gets to Hamas, which we allowed for a long time and then got accused in funding them (see even ITT)
Gazans will never stop doing this horror to themselves and grifters will never stop grifting
Id say you've been duped but im certain you are aware of their actions
Also their problem was never poverty, never was it 'lack of donations'. There is a reason you lot are easy marks kek
>>2822423Iran doesn’t even support Palestine. Most of Palestine’s support comes from Qatar and Türkiye.
>>2822487>campaigns meticulously designed by fight agency are "the people" having influenceCampaigns meticuously designed by Fight Agency that Israel is desperately trying to stop. Look I dgaf about streamers in general, but it seems like incredibly poor strategy to cede the American electoral arena entirely to Israel and pro-Israel politicians.
>>2823186Yeah, Turkiye, a NATO member. Right.
ah charlotte and mckayleigh and their causes célèbres…
>>2822423>Only Palestinians on the ground can do that.That might be the dumbest thing said in this entire fucking thread. Holy shit have you paid attention to the past 20 years?
>we should be supporting IranYou can do more than one thing at once.
But if you are American or in a country that gives material support to Israel, you should be putting all your energy into eliminating that support.
>>2823437>That might be the dumbest thing said in this entire fucking thread. Holy shit have you paid attention to the past 20 years?What makes you not have faith in the Palestinian resistance?
>>2823181>Hamas steals all Palestinian charity money>Gazans will never stop doing this horror to themselvesDoes this place ever stop regurgitating the same tired Hasbara talking points ever
>>2823503Was Palestine better off before or after October 7th?
>>2823557After, because Oct 7th proved to the world Zionism is a paper tiger. The Zionist entity is currently being drained from years of endless war. Their population is coming undone and more and more of them are fleeing. The whole world has effectively turned against the Zionists and they know it.
>>2823998>70,000 Palestinians are dead>hundreds of thousands are wounded and permanently disabled >80% of Gaza’s buildings have been turned to rubble>city of Rafah no longer existsBuy yeah, they got the PR they wanted I guess
>>2824135Ok so what's the alternative? Slow genocide?
>>2824136That implies the same number would have died eventually. You’re also not taking the massive amount of damage to infrastructure. There was no famine in Gaza prior to the October 7th attacks and Gaza’s hospitals were still up and running.
>>2823113Your flawed assumption is that you can transfer attention from people to causes freely. A world in which Toby Fox doesn't virtue signal on Palestine is not a world in which less attention goes to Toby Fox and more goes to Palestine, it is a world in which an equal amount of attention goes to Toby Fox and less goes to Palestine.
afaik Toby has been silent on Palestine as you wish - but Palestine hasn't swiped any attention from Deltarune at all!If you want the average American to care about Palestine, "caring about Palestine will tell everyone you are a virtuous person" is news you can use and "omg, poor people are dying far far away" is Wednesday. This is a game where lonely martyrdom gets you nothing and celebrity is a win-win. You want to be told that helping Palestine means personal sacrifice, but you want the sacrifice to be painful, you've been equipped for that by two thousand years of Jesus nailed to the cross. Being nailed to a cross is paradise compared to being told that the most effective thing you can do to help Palestine as a first worlder is gauche self promotion to ADD zoomers.
>>2821051>All the time on social media I see incidents of sone western activist living in America losing their job for speaking out against Zionism and then proceed to raise $20,000+ through a GoFundMe account in response.Only semi-related, but I find it interesting to see how much GFM has gentrified mutual aid in a way nearly identical to how Onlyfans has gentrified sex work. For instance, when Johnny gets threatened with eviction by a scumbag landlord, comrades don’t organize an eviction defence like they would have done ten years ago, they just donate to his GFM so he can pay rent for the next three months. Comrades no longer set up Food Not Bombs tables, since serving free food in the middle of the city has become effectively obsolete now that GFM pays for everyone’s groceries when they’re low on cash. Mutual aid is supposed to be subversive in that it challenges the existing capitalist structures and opens up possibilities for the creation of new forms of relationships between people. GFM does none of that and exists merely to keep people temporarily well-off in a crumbling system. Online donation campaigns are also noticeably impersonal. I think this is a subject we need to address more often.
im getting sick of palestine in general
>>2824228I’m getting sick of how the left focuses 99% of their attention on Palestine all while making minimal progress.
>>2824255the left makes minimal progress on anything it focuses all their attention on. why would you rather we redirected that energy to the usual masturbatory bullshit about whether we'll have icecream under communism?
>>2824258I’d rather see the left form a coherent strategy that stops a genocide within two weeks instead of two years.
>>2824255>>2824260Ah yes why hasn't the left tried the incredible strategy of
>just do it lolWhy didn't anyone think of that? Marx could have learned a lot from you!
>>2824223>Mutual aid is supposed to be subversive in that it challenges the existing capitalist structures and opens up possibilities for the creation of new forms of relationships between people. Right, it's a dual-power strategy, like the point of the Black Panther Party's free breakfast programs (which were combined with education), free medical clinics, etc. was to create alternative institutions that could supplant the state.
>>2824228‘Getting sick’ of hearing of/talking about an ongoing genocide says a lot more about you than you think it does about the movement
>>2824198So what exactly is the goal here in regards to Israel having really bad PR? A lot of American leftists keep parroting the assumption that the only reason the US supports Israel is due to a massive lobbying effort from AIPAC and the like, and more public support for Palestine would cause people (especially millennials and zoomers) to vote for anti-AIPAC candidates. Never mind the fact that there are many more geopolitical reasons why the US supports Israel and AIPAC is only one factor.
>>2821152>Channer contrarianism truly knows no bounds.Nah. It always has been a socdem natioanlist movement. Thank Stalin for enacting socialism in one promised state.
>but if you actually want Israel gone and replaced with a Palestinian stateNot revolutionary in the slightest
>>2824289The only way the American left could make any real material impact when it comes to helping the Palestinians defeat Israel (which again, what does a "defeat for Israel" mean in this context?) is by being strong and coherent enough to successfully demand short-term concessions like sanctions on Israel. So far, the American left is years away from being that powerful. You honestly believe the midterms will see a wave of anti-Zionist Democrats ascend to Congress, and those said politicians will have enough outside support to be able to impose policies that would seriously make a difference for the Palestinian people in Palestine?
C'mon. Most American leftists won't even risk jail blockading weapons shipments.
>>2821152>The general dislike of Israel will eventually translate into a removal of US subsidy to Israel, which will precipitate its collapse as a viable state.And this means what? Americans vote for anti-Israel politicians?
>>2824343I hope you're not the same guy I was responding to.
>>2821051Is there any chance the Palestine Movement can lead America to socialism? If not, why bother?
>>2824410>Killing Palestine is killing all of us.Bullshit
>>2824223Counterpoint: GFM is the only way most Americans can afford healthcare.
>>2824447>Is there any chance the Palestine Movement can lead America to socialism? If not, why bother?Are Americans actually this comically self-centered?
>>2824330>‘Getting sick’ of hearing of/talking about an ongoing genocide says a lot more about you than you think it does about the movementIt's a weird thing, but I think a lot more popular (normie) animus in America towards Israel is actually related to this. I don't know how many people watched the New York mayoral debate, but Andrew Cuomo would just be like "uhh Mr. Mamdani… ISRAEL" and people were just like what the FUCK does this have to do with being the mayor of New York. The news anchors asking questions were like Israel, Israel, ISRAEL. People are just like where the fuck is this coming from. I think part of the story is that elites got really shook by Oct. 7 and all that. Many of the people I'm talking about are not Jewish BTW, they can be gentiles (who also identify with rich Jews socially) and very much identify with the establishment. But their fixation just sounds bizarre to a lot of people who don't really care that much about the whole thing.
That also goes for not caring that much about Palestinians. Like, Palestine protests on college campuses was a noticeably elite-school phenomenon. It was not as much of a phenomenon at most state colleges in the flyover states. I think a lot of normies see it as not involving them, it's a foreign conflict between two alien peoples who are not Americans but they've "brought it over here" and "that's not how we do things around here."
In any event, idk what OP is on about, but AIPAC usually does well when they try to fuck up a politician who doesn't toe the line on Israel by largely avoiding the issue and instead focusing on them being a bad politician, or disloyal to the party's leader. Like Thomas Massie was disloyal to Trump and is a fake RINO. They did this to Jamaal Bowman on the Democratic side as well by saying he was disloyal to Biden and didn't vote for his Build Back Better bill or whatever.
>>2825227>That also goes for not caring that much about Palestinians. Like, Palestine protests on college campuses was a noticeably elite-school phenomenon. It was not as much of a phenomenon at most state colleges in the flyover states. I think a lot of normies see it as not involving them, it's a foreign conflict between two alien peoples who are not Americans but they've "brought it over here" and "that's not how we do things around here."I'd add to this and say that nearly all the Palestine protests overall were in large cities in the blue states or cities with sizable Arab and Muslim populations like Boston or Detroit. You didn't see any Palestine protests in the poorer states like Kentucky or Oklahoma.
>>2825214it's self centered only if you think socialism is le heckin' free healthcare in one country
>>2822180>Bisan Owda was able to raise $400k early in the Gaza genocide on the basis she was going to use the money to get her family and many others out of Gaza. Turns out she pocketed all the money and claimed she needed it for herself as reimbursement for a business she was trying to start before the genocide broke out. When did this happen?
>>2824447The only thing that makes most Americans anti-war is if the war causes gas prices to go up.
Gush Etzion Council Admits There Has Been Ritualistic Sexual Abuse>In an unprecedented public statement, the Gush Etzion Regional Council acknowledged ritualistic sexual abuse cases in its communities following a bombshell Kan 11 investigation, ending a long period of denial and urging victims to come forward.
>In a dramatic reversal that marks a turning point in one of Israel's most disturbing abuse scandals, the Gush Etzion Regional Council has issued an unprecedented public statement acknowledging ritualistic sexual abuse cases within its communities, ending a prolonged period of denial and silence.
>The extraordinary statement came in direct response to a bombshell investigative report by journalist Roni Zinger, aired on Kan 11's "Zman Emet" program. The broadcast presented testimonies from five different women, most of whom did not know each other, who described strikingly similar patterns of multi-perpetrator ritualistic sexual abuse occurring in the same areas of Gush Etzion. The program also featured recordings, filmed confrontations, and testimony from professionals who had accompanied the complainants over the years, building an evidentiary foundation that left little room for doubt.https://www.jfeed.com/news-israel/gush-etzion-ritualistic-abuse
>Last year a young woman called Shoshana Strook, the daughter of the well known settler Member of Knesset Orit Strook, came out in a series of social media posts where she described how she had been sexually tortured and abused as a little child by her parents as part of horrific rituals where children were subjected to the most hellish torment and abuse anyone could imagine.
>Shoshana Strook was found dead in a motel room in Israel on March 14 of this year.
>I left the Jewish religion when I was 15: it was much easier for me to do than quitting Zionism and Israel. Today I can say, with all honesty, that there are not many things that scare and repulse me more in life. I don’t even want to be associated with this anymore. I want nothing to do with it. Absolutely nothing.https://substack.com/home/post/p-199506268 >>2825602The grift from "Jewish News", surely, right, cunt?
>>2821051there is a problem with gatekeeping to only allow palestinian voices and that is that israel has found gusanos they can bribe, and everyone else is forced to pull their punches because israel has their family hostage.
>>2825701No one is saying listen yo Palestinian gusanos.
Apart from Gilad Atzmon I can't think of a single based jew
>>2825602Don’t give to this woman’s GFM. Give to orgs helping Gaza rebuild instead.
>>2825608Okay, and how will Hasan fix this problem?
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