>"Wanted to have an adventure and kill some people. Joined up in ‘04, did Fallujah and Ramadi, and managed both. Hell of an excellent experience."
>"There are times in this world when, for the good of tolerance and humanity, you need to kill a motherfucker. Sadly most people who are true believers in tolerance and humanity find that activity repulsive. Which I suppose is morally good, but pragmatically a shortfall."
>"Out of curiosity, what would you say to the many Marines and Soldiers who took trophies and desecrated bodies while fighting the Japanese? I find the urinating on bodies as a poor choice, but only because of the current state of media affairs. It's amusing that today killing a man isn't worthy of comment, but god forbid you display dominance. Only 50 years ago, and for the rest of the history of warfare, this stuff was pretty standard."
>"We are going to kill thousands. By the end of it, it may be millions. Our way of life is better, and if that is what it takes to prevail, let's get this show on the road. I don't disagree with your point, I just disagree with the fact you seem to think we shouldn't do it."https://archive.org/download/graham_platner_reddit_comments/graham_platner_reddit_comments.txtthe tattoo and the racist and misogynistic stuff graham platner has said in the past were certainly red flags for me, but honestly when i actually started reading through the comments myself, i realized it's actually worse than people seem to realize. it goes beyond just teenage edgelord internet shenanigans, this is someone who seems to have a genuine fascination with killing and hurting people, he talks about it a lot and brags about it a lot, he claims that he joined the military because he wanted to kill people and that he enjoyed killing people and he constantly talks about how empowering it feels and how much he misses it.
i've known a lot of people who have served in the military and i've never known any of them to say things like this. but i have heard a few of them talk about meeting certain other members of the military who did. most people who join the military are decent normal people who join for the usual kinds of reasons - sense of duty and wanting to serve their country, having family members in the military whom they look up to and want to follow in their footsteps, seeing it as a career opportunity to build a better life for themselves, etc. and most people who have fought in combat and experienced the horrors of war don't feel very good about it and don't like to talk about it and certainly don't find it glamorous or invigorating or think of it as some kind of exciting adventure. but there is a small minority of very sick people who really do join the military just because they want to fight in a war and get to kill people and watch people die, they think that war and killing are very neat things and they talk about it and obsess over it a lot and they genuinely seem to enjoy it.
i would like to think that graham platner is not that kind of person, but reading the comments he's made over the years, he legitimately seems like a psychopath. he's expressed some remorse for the things he's said, but that's not worth very much when he's simultaneously trying to pursue a political career and running for one of the highest positions of power in american society, a position that would give him far more power and therefore far more opportunities to kill and hurt and dominate other human beings than his military career ever did. i don't think a person who has said these kinds of things should be allowed that level of power.
The left should stay away from soldiers those awful men love murder rape and torture. Academics and baristas will lead the revolution.
>>2826855>The left should stay away from soldiers those awful men love murder rape and torture. Academics and baristas will lead the revolution.you need soldiers, but the soldiers have to have the same principles as you, not the opposite. hope that helps!
>>2826896Soldiers are just cops for overseas
A question to non-burgers: how do you cope with the fact that if the US goverment decides that what happened in Gaza needs to happen where you live the most you can expect from the american left (a country with 340 million people) is that they vote for and run cover online for a Nazi mass murderer?
>>2826855>The left should stay away from soldiers those awful men love murder rape and torture. Academics and baristas will lead the revolution.Not true, Trotsky hired many Ex-Tsarist military specialists, Zhukov originally fought in the white army, Mao never would have won the Chinese civil war if he didn't accept nationalists who defected to his side, neither would Castro or Ho Chi Minh, also Tito and Gaddafi original fought in bourgeois militaries.
>>2826970not like I expected anything else
>>2826966
german nazis and chinese landlords can rest in piss, because they won't be missed.
Leftypol will still shill for him
>>2826978You need four more bars for your rap verse
>>2826980>>2826978pigs mad, state of israel shouldn't exist
>>2826792I don't understand how Platner is getting away with these psycho comments. People have been disavowed for less.
Why should anyone trust this guy?
>>2826923has a revolution ever been won without soldiers
>>2827024He’s gonna be the new Democrat sin eater like Joe Manchin and Kristen Cinema. Especially since John Fetterman is actively crumbling worse than Trump and Biden despite being half the age.
>>2826966
ah yeah socioeconomic progress to stop millions of people starving over the next century is exactly the same motivation as wanting to kill because you have a murder fetish
>>2826896>you need soldiers, but the soldiers have to have the same principles as you, not the opposite.Absolutely. People like Hugo Chavez was a military guy, and was a leftist. He was also not a psycho, motivated by bloodlust.
Platner is clearly a psycho. Psychos can't be trusted. Period!
>>2827045He basically coopted the Hoxhaist guerrillas he was fighting in the 70s, his is arguably their only victory that wasn’t completely reactionary
>>2827028theyre kinda all related tho
>>2827024>I don't understand how Platner is getting away with these psycho comments. People have been disavowed for less.same reason trump gets away with all of his psychopathic behavior and nobody wants to talk about anything but his most superficial faux pas, because these are the kinds of people the american meritocracy elevates to positions of power and you can't truly disavow them without also disavowing the meritocracy. the so-called "successful" people with great careers who make all the important decisions in our society, politicians and business owners and web entrepeneurs and respected mainstream journalists and media figures, all these kinds of people are deeply invested in the meritocracy and they want to believe that a person like trump is just an anomaly, that there's no way that this great system that rewards ergomania and overambition and hyperindividualism could possibly be bullshit and could be creating a society run by narcissists and psychopaths.
>>2826976You speak as if platner really is a genius strategist like zhukov. His reddit prove you wrong
>>2827120>>2826855 said to stay from soldiers not platner specifically
>>2827125Platner is representative of soldiers in general, all of whom are criminals
>>2827127You're contradicting your last post.
>>2826970It wouldn't be shocking at all, since leftists are not communists, I don't expect anything from them.
>>2827065My mistake, but he fought in the imperial army in WW1 so my point still stands
>>2827120I was not talking about planter but I was talking about leftists who are veterans who have fell victim to the poverty draft and who have worked to atone, Planter has never apologized for what he did so he is different, I would still rather him win then the bitch who he is running against because I think the politicians who wage wars are just as responsible as the people who fight them but whatever.
>>2827140>I would still rather him win then the bitch who he is running against I don't mind lesser evil arguments, as in most cases is the correct tactical option. But to believe Platner is someone who can be trusted as some "progressive firebrand", as some people clearly believe, is nuts.
As an AIPAC financier, thank you for telling the TRUTH anon.
>Platner bad post #92138405
It's so funny that the hasbara campaign hasn't worked.
>>2827272he doesn't really even understand what is truly wrong about killing another human being. he only thinks in terms of what it means for the person being killed and what it means for the rest of the world, but he misses the most crucial element - what it means for the killer, the person who has taken it upon himself to play the role of god and decide which humans should live and which should die. he doesn't consider that a moral dilemma at all and he enjoys the feeling of having that power, he doesn't see it as a terrible burden to have to live with but as an exhilarating positive feeling. textbook psychopath.
Anti-zionism imploding acussing one another of being pro-israel for being for or against a basic ass socdem LMAO
>>2826896Most modern day amerikkkan soldiers are overweight retards who have never fought in a war. They’re just as useful as all the fat fuck militia larpers. The only genuinely useful soldier would be a logistics officer and logistics NCO
>>2827218>The American left should do everything it can to keep people like this out of their movement.he is not even trying to join The Left™, he is part of a right wing bourgeois party, his platform is making the US military great again, if you want to ride his dick so be it but don't pretend you are much different from ACPoids that simp for Putin
>>2827140>>2827125How about this? Every single yank leftist veteran is dumbfuck who should be shot. They not strategist. They not tactician. They not specialist. They dumbfuck racist like platner. Anyone who knows of the namefag U$ military vets on here knows im right
>>2827147Why not though? Yes he did a ton of evil shit in the past but why would that matter to the average fucking farmer in Maine who just wants healthcare?!?! Susan Collins literally voted in favor of the Iraq War resolution so morally her kill count is higher than Platner.
>>2827358Didn’t you read this?:
>>2826976 >>2827365A volunteer army is not the same as conscripts
>>2827365>Why not though? Yes he did a ton of evil shit in the past but why would that matter to the average fucking farmer in Maine who just wants healthcare?!?! why can't we get a socdem candidate who isn't a fucking neonazi?
>>2827365>Yes he did a ton of evil shit in the past but why would that matter to the average fucking farmer in MaineFuck that farmer then lmao
>>2827365Social democrat voted in favor of war credit, but hitler fought the war. Hitler has lower moral kill count at one point, so youre wrong. maine settler kulak are like israeli farmers. You should preach to hamas that they should recruit IDF specialist
>>2827370>>2827365I mean to me it's a dumb point because 99% of US elected officials would vote in favour of an unjust war and kill people through the paperwork they sign, obviously it's monstrous in itself (Platner would have done the same thing if he had been in power anyways), but I think that kind of person is not as dangerous as a rabid dog who loves killing personally, is a Hitlerite, and also is not even smart enough to not brag about being a war criminal online. I would have more trust in someone who thought the Iraq war was actually morally justified than someone who kind of says it wasn't but it's still based and he loved being there and killing people and he would do it again. Like how is that not worse, you don't even believe you're killing for truth justice and the American way, but that you know the killing is bad but do it anyway because you like it.
>>2827365>Why not though?his brother is a literal Israel glowie, he hangs out with him regularly, how can you trust someone like that lol, after everything I've read about him I'm convinced he is some sort MIC op, its so fucking transparent its unreal
I dont care if people in his state vote for him but whats crazy is that people that consider themselves on the left here and the rest of the internet defend him and trust him, you are either right wingers or completely braindead morons that learned nothing from Obama
>>2827367I never said he didn’t kill people
>>2827369He isn’t a Neo-Nazi, yeah he got that tattoo on his tit not knowing what it was but by the same logic he is a communist because he referred to himself as one.
>>2827371Yeah fuck the American Proletariat, how dare they want healthcare instead of letting another Republican win.
>>2827372IDF and Hamas are a completely different situation because they are two different political and cultural entities.
>>2827383There's literally Reddit posts from him defending soldiers having SS tattoos, I don't believe at all that he didn't know that it was, nobody told him for 20 years, and he never saw that symbol in a nazi context before
>>2827383Hitler promised no new wars and then he launched WW2. Trusting Graham when he has already shown his true colors in going overseas to kill brown people is insane.
>>2827385Furthermore even if we ignore the tattoo which we obviously shouldn't, his philosophy as detailed in his Reddit posts is clearly some kind of nazistic "will to power" bullshit where he believes might makes right and he's justified in killing people because he likes it. That's just Nazism.
>>2827383So a white guy can get a bunch of nazi tats and join multiple incursions on the middle east to murder brown people just for fun but he is not a neo-nazi? What would he need to do for you to consider him a neo-nazi?
>>2827388>>2827389>>2827391IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY BROWN PEOPLE DIE OK I JUST WANT FREE HEALTHCARE GIVE ME TREATSSSSSS
>>2827383>Yeah fuck the American Proletariat, how dare they want healthcare instead of letting another Republican win.<he actually thinks demonkrats will give him healthcareanother victim democrat sheepdog Hasan Piker, sad, many such cases
>>2827395I know that but I'm still curious about what would Platner need to do for you to actually consider him a neo-nazi if getting nazi tats and going on multiple brown people safaris just for the love of the game doesn't cut it
>>2827396The correct epithet is "DEMONRATS"
Because that's what Demokkkrats are. Demonic Rats.
>>2827389what is truly unsettling about it all is seeing how many supposedly intelligent so-called "progressive" people agree with his "kill a motherfucker" rhetoric. they might be educated informed adults when it comes to things like history and politics and economics, but when it comes to morality they are like clueless children.
they, like him, believe that pragmaticism and morality are two separate and completely incompatible ideas. they have no idea what morality even is. they don't understand how dangerous a vigilante is, how a person like platner who thinks it's okay to "kill a motherfucker for the good of humanity" is far more dangerous to society than any of the so-called motherfuckers, any of the obviously immoral people.
trump is an obviously immoral person, he is a criminal who belongs in jail, but people like him are a constant that every kind of society has to deal with by way of some kind of justice system. our system has failed to put trump in jail where he belongs and people are outraged about that and so there is a very understandable, albeit foolish temptation to sidestep the system and take matters into our own hands. but when we do something like that, when we even dream out loud and mouth off to each other about wanting do something like that, we weaken the entire code. we tear down the system and we tear down our civilized society, we become something far more dangerous than a man like trump, than any criminal you can think of.
society doesn't break down because of the bad people in it. society breaks down when the good people look for shortcuts. society breaks down when the good people think that they can also be immoral. if you want to talk about pragmaticism - that is pragmaticism.
>>2827603>If you kill monsters you become a monsterFuck off Nietzsche. Killing the corrupt is always good. Socities become shit when the corrupt and wealthy stop being punished. Go back to agitating for throwing grandma off a cliff because le slave morality coddles le weak.
>>2827624
Oh wow you're here as well huh? I thought you only spammed your garbage on /siberia/
>>2827385Did he do that? Send link
>>2827387I used farmer as example, there are a ton of Kulaks who just use migrant farmers but there are proletarians in Maine.
>>2827388Even if that was true then we would just get wars either way then, one just comes with healthcare.
>>2827391In order to be a Neo-Nazi you need to have actual Nazi ideology like racism and and shit, he would not have a Jewish family members if he was Hitler style Nazi and he would not be running as Anti-Israel if he was Zionist style Nazi.
>>2827395I never said that, I am pretty sure Platner should be in jail in a perfect world, we don’t know if he committed war crimes but the entire Iraq war was a war crime so he probably did.
>>2827396well how do you know DSA democrats won’t?
>>2827730theres reddit posts of him defending the practice of getting 𐓏𐓏 tattooed on you. no way he didnt know.
>>2826792Insane that Libs only care about shit like him sexting women other than his wife on the side (Based) or him saying crazy shit on Reddit when any Leftist has recognized since the start that he was evil on account of his dealings with Blackwater and his obvious adoration for killing brown kids. Honestly even the SS tattoo, evil as it is, is kind of a nothingburger because he's so clearly retarded that there's a chance he genuinely just didn't know what it is.
But honestly? I hate Janet Mills and Susan Miller more. If I lived in Maine I'd vote for him. Democrats are Hitlerite Capitalists who don't actually change anything but I despise the Republicans with every fiber of my being and live for their defeat.
>>2827613GEG
>>2827398Obviously not Tom but I basically think he's about as much of a Nazi as any other US politician. Arguably less so just because his ideology is Social DemoKKKrat Treatlerism instead of TND Treatlerism.
>>2827024You shouldn't. Unless they say that they want to tear the Capitalist system to the ground and then have the balls to back it up with their actions, you should never trust a politician.
>>2827140I see AmeriKKKan soldiers as being inherently guilty. If they didn't directly kill civillians or do anything insane as soldiers then they can be given a chance for forgiveness assuming they don't constantly walk around going on about how they're the biggest victims ever and also ideologically stand opposed to Capitalism and Imperialism. You are too kind to US soldiers.
>>2827201>>2827221The lesser Hitler being opposed by the greater Hitler is not a free pass to view all opposition to the lesser Hitler as being pro-greater Hitler. Let's just oppose Hitlers.
>>2827365>why would that matter to the average fucking farmer in Maine who just wants healthcareIt wouldn't because farmers are fucking evil
>Susan CollinsI don't think anybody here is arguing that Susan Collins is somehow better than Platner
>>2827373Nevermind, somebody is actually doing that. Your IDF acceptance letter is in the mailbox.
>>2827385- I would like to see the Reddit post where he says this
- TBH not many people have seen him shirtless and normgroids would very easily believe it's just a skull and crossbones. I feel like we severely overestimate how much these "people" (cattle) know about History. I'm not saying he didn't know it was a Nazi tattoo (He may very well have, I'd say it's like a 75% chance) but idk that it's as cut and dry as you make it out to be. He WAS in Croatia… you could ask for a fucking flaming sword tattoo there and you'd wake up with a full body portrait of Adolf Hitler tearing a Jew's head in half on your back.
>>2827395
Come on, dude
>>2827742Okay man. That seems like a pretty crazy way to view this, the reason he's surviving is because the entire DNC sphere is running interference for him.
>>2827746are they though? in any other case this would have been career ending but it just falls straight off, from what i've seen the DNC doesn't exactly like the guy but now that he's won, it doesn't matter
>>2827730>>2827731Soldiers are often clinically retarded, but they're also often far right psychos (almost like those things are related), so both are plausible tbh.
>>2827749Maybe he just has a really good campaign team, I don't fucking know. Surely there is some big money behind him. The point is that even if he does win does that mean people were right to support him? Obviously no, he can still be a Nazi murderer freak and win elections.
I just wanna say that your comparison to Saddam Hussein is kind of insane for multiple reasons, he hasn't even done anything yet and should communists have supported Saddam Hussein??
>>2827754idk i'm not gay nazi, i do agree with his opinion on the issue though, so you can take it up with him, also he doesn't really endorse the guy either from what i can tell, more or less explains why he's liked
>>2827743>Insane that Libs only care about shit like him sexting women other than his wife on the side (Based) or him saying crazy shit on Reddit when any Leftist has recognized since the start that he was evil on account of his dealings with BlackwaterYeah libs don't care about Blackwater. What's going on is there are disunited groups who hate him for their own reasons that they can't vocalize in public. There are people who will say, "if we Democrats elect Platner, we're no better than Republicans" but "if we primary Fetterman, we're no better than Republicans." But then they'll state their reason as basically being a vibe or style or Reddit posts, but the real driving issue is that Fetterman is pro-Israel and Platner is not. But they won't actually SAY that so you get this innuendo about his "behavior."
If you're on the left and hate military personnel on principle, at least that's honest.
>>2827754>I just wanna say that your comparison to Saddam Hussein is kind of insane for multiple reasons, he hasn't even done anything yet and should communists have supported Saddam Hussein??I should respond but I think it's just human political psychology, like a bunch of guys over there liked him because they percieved him as standing up for the Arabs in the world rather than being a pathetic pussy who'd let others walk all over them. The debate about whether "communists" should support him or not seems more like a debate for an organization. I'd vote for him if I lived in Maine but I don't, but idc if people don't like him. He was so far ahead in the primary his opponent dropped out.
>>2827758>he doesn't really endorse the guy either from what i can tell, more or less explains why he's likedYeah. Like, critical support I guess but does anyone here even live in Maine and would it even matter anyways? Probably not.
Test
Leftypol loves him
>>2827764You support the terrorist sharra who runs Syria and downplay his crimes. You are scum
>>2827731Maine voters seem to believe him, judging from the fact he's winning
>>2827801pretty sure you're the scum here, but that's more because you're a lobotomite
>>2826792The discussion surrounding this guy has been hilarious. He's very obviously a right wing plant they want to install so he can flip when elected. Same with that other bald guy fetterman or something. I mean the right literally said they'd be going forward with a slow moving coup and we're seeing it in real time. I'm not dumb enough to believe the Democrats aren't controlled opposition but it's really remarkable to see how pacified and controlled the american people have become. They literally won't fight back at all hahahaha you could literally kill their families and they wouldn't do shit hahahaha funny stuff
>platner is a killer psycho!
Good. Maybe he will kill another senator in his psycho rage.
>platner is a sex pest!
Good. Maybe he will rape another senator.
>platner is a nazi!
Good. Maybe he will kill himself like his fuehrer.
Any of these happening would be better than anything Collins did.
>>2827812
This post is such liberal smarminess I have to wonder if it was copypasted from reddit.
>>2827743>But honestly? I hate Janet Mills and Susan Miller more. If I lived in Maine I'd vote for him.i guess that's the real difference between someone like me and someone like you. you operate on hatred, i operate on principle. you are guided by your most basic instincts and whatever your most intense feelings are in a particular moment like an animal, i am guided by my conscience and lengthy thoughtful deliberation, like a human. when you are given the choice between eating a piece of shit and drinking a glass of piss, you will drink the glass of piss. when i am given that same choice, i would do neither and would sooner starve to death than be reduced to that.
>>2827815>>2827817an animal will chew its own leg off to escape from a trap. what will you do?
>>2827814he will do none of that, he will at best vote against the interests of Israel a few times or something, at worst he will vote in their favor always, nothing will fundamentally change either way
Ah not like it matters anyway these elections are a joke of a joke at this point. The civil war is coming and everyone knows it. That's why bitch made richies like thiel are escaping to argentina already lol
>>2827383Give up, dick rider. You know platner manage abu ghraib. You know platner dont care about amerikan worker, but still you ride his dick. You know platner betray you. Give up, dick rider
>>2827821yeah man it's so happening, it'll definitely happen bro it's not like it's gonna be disquieted in about 2 years, and everything will return to normal, it's just gonna happen, ok?
>>2827643Reasonable men must agree with platner here. Platner analysis is rare honesty from a yank. They make the dumbfuck a national hero. Platner is psychopath, but he just like you, gay nazi. And rest of his dick riders.
>>2827834>Reasonable men must agree with platner here.Correct, I will never be a platnerite, you would have to put a gun in my head to shill for him like some vile yanks do, but his description of what happened in the video was almost scientific, at least for a barbarian like him.
he is a bourgeois, and dedicated to the US through and through
>>2827761If you hover your mouse over the timeline of this video, all of the colors are fucked up. does anybody else see this?
>>2827809Fetterman had a stroke, he wasn't some secret Right Wing plant
>>2827816>i operate on principleSilence, idealist
>>2827947>Fetterman had a stroke, he wasn't some secret Right Wing plantDo you really believe that? He somehow had a stroke which made him right wing?
>>2827950People close to him all say the same thing, his personality completely changed after the stroke. His relationship with his wife has fallen apart, staffers note an abrupt change in the way he acts, I could go on. Yes, I believe he had a stroke that changed him severely.
>>2827953He voted to support Israel even before he had a stroke. Stop trying to sheepdog people into supporting the DEMON RATS you demonkkkracker.
>>2827953well fair enough, I don't know much about it, but to me it seems more likely that he was always a cynical right wing operative and just lost the ability to be covert about it due to retardation.
>>2827954I'm aware. I don't think his support for Israel is a result of his stroke, I think the other insane shit as well as his severe dedication to Israel beyond that of even the typical Democrat is the result of his stroke.
>>2827956While Republican aligned operatives (And most famously, LaRouchites) have won Democratic primaries in the past and tanked their respective races, it's always some guy nobody cares about in a race that nobody is paying attention to because Democrats have no chance of winning in it regardless. Fetterman just wasn't like that, I live in Pennsylvania and people don't understand what it was like. Fetterman had a track record of Progressive politics (That is to say, he was a Social Democrat Treatlerite) and had held office as mayor of Braddock and was the Lieutenant Governer of Pennsylvania at the time he was elected Senator. At no point had he displayed anything that distinguished him as more conservative than the average Democrat. He supported Israel, but it was 2022 and basically all American politicians were openly very pro-Israel (As opposed to now, where all politicians are still pro-Israel but many Democrats will vote against sending them weapons) so this never stood out as being uniquely conservative by the standards of AmeriKKKan politics. Many Progressive Democratic politicians who had been elected before Al-Aqsa flood had boasted how Pro-Israel they were but then shifted gears to calling for a ceasefire in 2023 and voting against weapon shipments to Israel and all of that stuff, establishing themselves as obviously still pro-Israel as any US politician is, but less so than other politicians. Maxwell Alejandro Frost, for example, did exactly this. Fetterman's campaign was specifically Progressive and his opponents, most notably Connor Lamb, ran as the "Rational Centrist alternative" and were backed by the DNC establishment. Connor Lamb also had a very conservative voting record in the House of Representatives. Fetterman had the whole Progressive coalition behind him.
Then Fetterman had a stroke, and it fucked him up really bad. Look at the footage of the debate in 2022, it fucked him up like crazy. It wasn't an instant political shift, but people around him say his personality changed. Even after he got into office he didn't immediately go "LOL I'm actually a Conservative!", he continued to be the "Progressive Democrat" for a while until his personality shift seemed to catch up to his ideology. It was a very gradual thing, not at all indicative of some deep undercover Republican operative. His staffers have fucking insane stories about him sending them gore and all of this wild shit, there are tales about how much his marriage has deteriorated, all this shit that nobody saw him do before the stroke. It is very obvious that it changed him.
In contrast, somebody like Kyrsten Sinema had been a Blue Dog Democrat basically since they entered the Democratic party. She was never some kind of Progressive in the House of Representatives and she had established herself as a Conservative Democrat by the time she was recruited by Chuck Schumer to run for senate and then beat a Progressive-backed primary opponent while the DNC establishment united behind her.
I do not buy that Fetterman was playing some long con where he suddenly reveals himself to be a secret Republican the whole time after being a normie Progressive Democrat in public office for decades. It's just not feasible and would be completely unprecedented in American politics.
Make no mistake: Capitalist politicians will always betray you. I've always recognized this to be true. I was saying this about Zohran when everybody was acting like he was motherfucking Lenin. However, Fetterman level betrayals are not at all normal in American politics and trying to sniff out who's the "Next Fetterman" is a fool's errand because what happened to Fetterman was basically a freak accident.
yall deadass put on a toxic wh*te male one the ballot yall be trifflin we the people aint want that maine kampf chucklef*ck heil ben gvir
>>2828025>I do not buy that Fetterman was playing some long con where he suddenly reveals himself to be a secret Republican the whole time after being a normie Progressive Democrat in public office for decades. It's just not feasible and would be completely unprecedented in American politics.your theory that a person having a stroke could flip them from democrat to republican is at least as absurd as the elaborate long con theory.
the more likely explanation, the one most of us don't like to think about, is that human beings are, by and large, very weak and impressionable and have flimsy principles that they will readily abandon whenever there is a change of circumstances that makes them no longer convenient to uphold.
this is why i don't find it useful to view politicians through a consequentialist lens, i.e. base my judgment on what i think they may or may not do in the future or what i think their chances of winning are or whether i think their opposition would be worse or better. i judge them the same way i judge regular people in my day-to-day life, by getting to know their actual personality by observing their patterns of behavior. a lot of people think this is somehow impossible to do with politicians, like they're some kind of special breed of people who are totally opaque emotionless robots and perfect liars who flawlessly cover their tracks every time but that's not true at all. they are very human and very sloppy and careless and they reveal things about their true nature all the time, you just need to understand human psychology and be able to read between the lines.
>>2827052true but i would focus on the actions more than the words
>>2827140>My mistake, but he fought in the imperial army in WW1 so my point still standsseveral points
1: zhukov and millions of other russian worker and peasants were drafted in WW1.
2: not a single american who fought in the GWOT was drafted.
3: there is the idea that americans are coerced into the military by poverty, the poverty draft, but statistics of US military show that people who join are not usually people on the brink of starvation and homelessness, and that such people would usually be considered unfit for service.
4: on the contrary, people who join the military are usually from home owning families with past connections to the police, military, and MIC. This is unsurprising when you look at US history or even the history of pre-capitalist empires like Rome.
5: graham platner is not comparable to zhukov in this situation because not only was zhukov drafted into WW1 and graham platner was not, but graham platner joined the US military despite his own parents offering to pay for his college. he is on record saying he wanted an adventure. imperialism was just part of his own personal character development. he was proud of the fallujah siege, which btw started when locals killed blackwater mercenaries who were disguised in plain clothes and weren't even in the US military. they slaughtered all "combat age males" in the city and took all the women and children hostage because two mercenaries got what was coming to them
6: After four tours of duty volunteering in 2 imperialist wars, platner went on to work fas a mercenary, marry a woman whose brother is in AIPAC, own an oyster business and some rural land, and run for senate. Does this sound like an oppressed proletarian who is anti-war and anti-zionism, or does this sound like the opportunist careerism of a man who sees himself as a modern Julius Caesar, cynically using populist causes to advance his own military and senate career?
7: even if you take his campaign rhetoric at face value, which is naive, the essence of his critique of the current system seems to be that the veterans aren't treated nicely enough after serving the empire, and the imperial wars aren't managed cleverly enough, not that the wars themselves should not have happened.
8: people are very eager to fall for tactics of populism and recuperation coming out of a bourgeois imperialist party
>>2828025>Make no mistake: Capitalist politicians will always betray you. I've always recognized this to be true. I was saying this about Zohran when everybody was acting like he was motherfucking Lenin. However, Fetterman level betrayals are not at all normal in American politics and trying to sniff out who's the "Next Fetterman" is a fool's errand because what happened to Fetterman was basically a freak accident.Give up, dick rider. You know you are wrong. Bernie betray you. Aoc betray you. Every democrat betray you. Still you ride the dick. Give it up, dick rider. No one believes your lies.
>>2828179how does saying
>Capitalist politicians will always betray youmake him a dick rider
>>2828174this should end this discussion as to 'our' position
>>2828184Very simple. Dick riders always say one thing and then contradict themselves. They say capitalist politicians betray as a rule, yet the capitalist politicians of most degenerated bourgeois democratic dont betray too often and neither can their betrayal be predicted. They make platner exception to the rule. They totally wrong. Anyone with half a brain can see their constant attempts at deception
>>2828174the Russian garrisons and army reserves were participating in pogroms on jews and factory workers by the dozens for many years, the avg ww1 draftee was committing way more war crimes on avg than the amerilard volunteer force
>>>/USApol/
>>2827953Too bad he didn’t die from the stroke.
>>2828158>human beings are, by and large, very weak and impressionable and have flimsy principlesYes, and don't you think a stroke might contribute to something like that?
>>2828179<Capitalist politicians will always betray you>Wrong! The actual truth is that Capitalist politicians will always betray you.???
>>2828196There is a clear difference between Fetterman becoming the most conservative Democrat in the Senate after campaigning as a progressive and Zohran being more centrist than he made himself out to be. There is a spectrum to betrayal, I'm trying to say that all politicians will betray you but enormous shifts in ideology upon taking office in the way we saw with Fetterman are not common nor can they be predicted. If you are trying to argue that politicians in the US regularly make the enormous shifts you saw with people like Fetterman then you are out of your mind. The central point I was making about Fetterman in relation to Platner is that Platner will obviously vote more Right-Wing than he campaigns but trying to determine if he'll pull a Fetterman is a fool's errand, as Fetterman was a pretty unique case.
>>2828259Indeed
>>2828196I think you are just taking a prosecutorial tone to make the thread the thread about anons instead of about politics, society, etc. it is a very washed up pol tactic
>>2828198>the Russian garrisons and army reserves were participating in pogroms on jews and factory workers by the dozens for many yearsthis isn't a counter argument to a single one of the 8 points i made. it is a total nonsequitur completely unrelated to anything I said but since I I will be generous and respond to you even though you basically failed to respond to me: the black hundreds, monarchists, and other reactionaries doing pogroms are not the kind of people who got recruited by the bolsheviks
>the avg ww1 draftee was committing way more war crimes on avg than the amerilard volunteer forceI'm not sure how one goes about proving a claim like this at all. If I cherrypick My Lai Massacre in Vietnam, or No Gun Ri in Korea, or the Nisour Square massacre in Iraq, you can cherrypick war crimes in WW1. But we are talking about averages and not outliers. My point isn't whether the average person was more brutal, my point was comparing the USA where the brutality is voluntary with tsarist Russia where the brutality was not only overwhelmingly drafted, but the people were much more poor on average. It's not a sensible comparison at all. It's apples to oranges. I was responding to Tomdatinker comparing an actual Bolshevik, Zhukov, to Graham Platner. It was an even stupider comparison than the more general comparison of US volunteers in GWOT to Russian draftees in WW1.
>>2828174>on the contrary, people who join the military are usually from home owning families with past connections to the police, military, and MICIirc that was only true for certain positions, mainly front line combat ones. It isn't true for the military as a whole.
>>2828260> enormous shifts in ideology upon taking office in the way we saw with Fettermanwasn't he taking AIPAC money before he got elected? idk it's pretty easy to see coming these days. they just run fake populists. fetterman, platner, and zohran all use the same campaign agency, fight agency, which seems to specialize in fake outsiders. the idea of a fake outsider became popular because of trump. trumptards fell for trump because they thought he was "outside" the system of "politics" when really he is representative of the rot itself.
>>2828264i see… what is your opinion on the rest of the post
>>2828266Trump was also a lifelong conman
>>2828267I think it's all pretty true when it comes to Platner himself, but in general the distinction between volunteers and conscripts is misguided. It's based in a moral judgement of people and not their usefulness or necessity to the cause. Lenin wrote many appeals to soldiers, but he never made this distinction because he understood that it was irrelevant. It's also not a good indicator of whether or not somebody has committed atrocities in the course of an imperialist war. Some of the worst crimes of that type were committed by draftees, such as Mai Lai. Iirc it was actually a volunteer soldier that intervened to stop it.
>>2828263>the black hundreds, monarchists, and other reactionaries doing pogroms are not the kind of people who got recruited by the bolsheviksMLs consider any veteran radioactive and reactionary, no matter if they see combat or not. they are all baby killers in their mind, so while you are correct in saying the bolsheviks would recruit non-reactionary soldiers or veterans, few today have adopted those lessons
>my point was comparing the USA where the brutality is voluntary with tsarist Russia where the brutality was not only overwhelmingly drafted, but the people were much more poor on averagenah conscripted peasants are much more reactionary and backwards in their mindset even when compared to volunteer wage laborers this is just a fact. no group of american guardsman are mowing down hundreds of jews…yet
>>2828266Your argument falls apart when it's mentioned that Zohran hasn't committed any kind of betrayal beyond that of the average US politician
>>2828271>MLs consider any veteran radioactive and reactionary, no matter if they see combat or not. they are all baby killers in their mindrecall please 1: I am one of these "ML" you are talking about and 2: we are talking about a petty bourgeois guy running as a democrat for the US senate after a career of volunteer imperialism, not a random drafted prole in WW1
> so while you are correct in saying the bolsheviks would recruit non-reactionary soldiers or veterans, few today have adopted those lessonsi have adopted the lesson and i am one of the "MLs" you are talking about, it's just that the topic is a completely different topic.
>nah conscripted peasants are much more reactionary and backwards in their mindset even when compared to volunteer wage laborers this is just a fact. no group of american guardsman are mowing down hundreds of jews…yetthere were plenty of times the volunteer US soldiers did exactly that to civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan during the GWOT
>>2828272what do you think my argument is
>>2828281>Volunteer imperialismLeftoids will tell you with a straight face wage slavery is slavery, it's not volontary, you are coerced into having a wage or dying, but then cry because people join the military instead of a dead end job with horrible pay
>>2828332Murdering people for the US military is always wrong. Trusting said murderers, who brahged about how fun it was to murder, with political authority, on top of being morally wrong is also just plain retarded. I can see why an Amerikkkan would vote Zohran since at least Zohran never volunteered to kill anyone. Platner does not reach even that bare minimum standard.
>>2828281>there were plenty of times the volunteer US soldiers did exactly that to civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan during the GWOTand conscripted russian ww1 peasants were raping and pillaging their way across europe to seize Constantinople and the turkish straits for the Tsar. your point exactly?
>>2828340There's a difference between conscription and volunteering. A Russian peasant who disobeyed was liable to be killed. An American who joins a war because he wants to kill people is entirely different and does not face that pressure. Stop shilling for neo nazis.
>>2828343>A Russian peasant who disobeyed was liable to be killedthe avg russian peasant, starkly illiterate, were mostly monarchist and therefore willing and enthusiastic collaborators of tsarist imperialism. read lenin
>>2828346>willing and enthusiastic collaborators of tsarist imperialismyeah bro thats why they overthrew him.
>>2828352peasants didn't overthrow the tsar. are you stupid? the city women of Petrograd did that
>>2828358the army (made up largely of conscripted peasants) rose up against the tsar too did they not? or at least parts of it, and most of the army went along with the revolution and did nothing to stop it.
>>2828361>the army (made up largely of conscripted peasants) rose up against the tsar too did they not? 'the peasants' as a distinct group rose up against nobody, not even the provisional government after they continued the imperialist war. the most positive thing they started doing before the workers took control was self-demobilizing after kerenskys stupidass offensive
>Yes, and don't you think a stroke might contribute to something like that?
i mean, i'm no doctor and i doubt you are one either, but from what i understand about the effects of strokes they are usually very broad things like death, coma, paralysis, aphasia, etc. not changes in political alignment.
i suppose it is possible but it seems extraordinarily cartoonishly unlikely, reality isn't like the flintstones where fred gets a bowling ball dropped on his head and suddenly thinks he's a professional racecar driver, brain damage tends to be a lot more general than that.
>>2828358>>2828352>>2828361the tsar abdicated before the october revolution, but after the february revolution. nobody overthrew the tsar. the tsar was simply killed while on house arrest over a year after surrendering the throne to the provisional government which was liberal and reformist. The US actually was fine with the February revolution, because the provisional government wasn't revolutionary and didn't want to withdraw from WW1 like the bolsheviks did.
>>2828346still not comparable for the reasons the other anon said
So is platner the next Zhukov or something?
>>2828332it's not true in the case of graham platner, which this thread is about. he is on record saying his parents would have paid for his college, but he wanted an adventure. he volunteered for 4 tours of duty and then worked as a mercenary. he kept going back for more. he was not one of those troops who just wanted to do "search and avoid" missions. he sought out combat and was happy to do so. he was at abu ghraib and fallujah. he worked for a ruthless and notorious mercenary company run by an evangelical zionist right wing psychopath. like seriously stop trying to strip this thing of its context. this is a petty bourgeois guy.
>>2828270Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
>It's also not a good indicator of whether or not somebody has committed atrocities in the course of an imperialist war. Some of the worst crimes of that type were committed by draftees, such as Mai Lai. Iirc it was actually a volunteer soldier that intervened to stop it.That is an interesting point.
>>2826792God dad bods are fucking disgusting man.
>>2828332>Leftoids will tell you with a straight face wage slavery is slavery, it's not volontary, you are coerced into having a wage or dying, but then cry because people join the military instead of a dead end job with horrible payamerican volunteers want it both ways. they want you to roll out the red carpet for them, tell them how brave they are, thank them for their service, give them free meals at restaurants, never talk shit about what they did overseas or who it really served, never question the wars they fought, and lick their boots clean wherever they show up. but at the same time they want to whine about how unfair society is to them, how they were forced to go into the military by poverty and didn't really want to do all those war crimes in the middle east, they were just following orders like the wehrmacht, and never actually agreed with all the things they signed up for.
People who sign up for the US military are not usually on the brink of starvation and homelessness, and such people would usually be considered unfit for service. So the most desperate can't even serve. Also you can tell a lot by what branch they join. Navy people, until this whole hormuz incident, tended to join the navy because their chances of seeing combat were low. US Marine corps meanwhile are psychos who will tell you with a straight face that they joined to kill and to rape.
>>2828772>Platner's ennemies remains the greatest arguments in his favor.I guess we should have supported Hitler too because Churchill was an imperialist butcher. You dumb fuck
>>2828843Everyone who disagrees with me is an Israeli politician: the child's guide to rhetoric
>>2828855They don't like to talk about that bit of history very much, I wonder why.
>>2828772>If you are against succdem fuhrer you are le soyThank you for this deep and informative analysis.
>>2828835at least mr. hitler fought against bri*ish imperialism, and unlike platner, he didn't engage in succdem libcuckery like "more gibs for veterans, pwetty pwease, and what about imperialist wars but MORE rational"
>>2828772>Platner's ennemies remains the greatest arguments in his favor.Never an argument. i can hate more than two things at once. This is leftoid lesser evilism.
>>2828864it's bourgeois lesser evilism
>>2826792>We are going to kill thousands. By the end of it, it may be millions. Our way of life is better, and if that is what it takes to prevail, let's get this show on the road. I don't disagree with your point, I just disagree with the fact you seem to think we shouldn't do it."Who was he referring to here? Arabs?
>>2828949My hope is Israelis.
>>2828760lol
>>2828690>american volunteers want it both ways. they want you to roll out the red carpet for them, tell them how brave they are, thank them for their service, give them free meals at restaurants, never talk shit about what they did overseas or who it really served, never question the wars they fought, and lick their boots clean wherever they show up. but at the same time they want to whine about how unfair society is to them, how they were forced to go into the military by poverty and didn't really want to do all those war crimes in the middle east, they were just following orders like the wehrmacht, and never actually agreed with all the things they signed up for.also they really hate it when they "become leftist" and you don't immediately trust them unconditionally and give them leadership positions in your org. it's kinda like a person who uses apologies as a means of getting forgiveness. if you don't forgive them right away they get really angry and detract the apology or try to strong arm you into forgiving them.
>>2828772>pragmatism is when you vote blue no matter who like you have been doing for decades with nothing to show for it except everything getting worseyou are braindead
>>2829004>my cope is israelishe did 4 tours of duty for them
>>2828949>Who was he referring to here? Arabs?obviously. i doubt he has ever killed a non-arab
>>2829041if you convince him to actually get at least two of those tattoos I will stop actively shitting on platner here
the ball is in your court now, DM him or his handlers, you are not a pussy with social anxiety or something, right?
>>2829051Do you actually live in Maine?
>>2829055i live in Maine Kampf
Again, if you think about the motives of Platner critics and why they never talk about Zionist politicians, the entire narrative falls apart. It's a hasbara campaign. Don't fall for it.
the question of why the supposedly left-leaning media seems to be so ignorant about the depths of this guy's apparent psychopathy is a very interesting question because it probably has to do with the tremendous gradually-widening and largely-unmentionable class divide in american society. the kinds of people who work in the field of professional journalism for the major big-name corporate news outlets and are in the position to actually research and write the content of the articles, and also most of the people who actually read these publications on a regular basis, i.e. people who actually subscribe and pay to get past the paywalls instead of just skimming clickbait headlines on facebook/google/apple/microsoft newsfeeds; these people simply do not live in the same world that most of american society inhabit.
they don't notice the red flags of a violent ignorant bigoted dudebro psychopath because they don't encounter people like that in their daily life and probably haven't encountered them since they were in public school, they spend all their time around fellow affluent white-collar urban professionals who exhibit the conventional blend of highly performative and myopic socially-liberal and highly understated and unconscious fiscally-conservative political views that are typical of that group.
a more average working class kind of person might read the rhetoric of someone like graham platner and immediately identify familiar patterns in it that they have heard before from average working class people whom they interact with all the time in their everyday life and thereby connect with it very directly and feel a very visceral reaction to it, but for the affluent urbanite writing for the new york times or subscribing and reading the new york times, it has no analog in their realm of experience so it's just like abstract wallpaper to them, it doesn't even seem real, and they can't even engage with it intellectually at all.
lately i've taken to thinking of it as "the bojack horseman effect" because if you've ever actually watched that show, you might notice that under the surface it's actually a very unintentionally telling pastiche of modern american yuppie culture. superficially it is supposed to be a show about mocking the very obvious narcissistic behavior of celebrities, but the non-celebrity yuppie characters in the show who work behind the scenes in the entertainment industry as writers and agents and freelance entrepeneurs and whatnot are also extremely self-involved people who only ever think about themselves, and the occasional depictions of actual regular everyday people are just as throwaway gags that depict them as the brainless normie idiot masses gawking at their phones and saying dumb vapid things. the entire vibe of the show is obnoxiously self-centered where the characters are not really having conversations with each other like human beings, they are all just taking turns monologuing like a reddit comment thread and everything they say comes across as performative and hollow, there is never any silence or contemplation between the monologues and nobody seems to be really listening to each other when they talk and the characters don't really seem very much like characters at all and are more like vehicles for the creators and writers of the show to speak directly to the audience. that show kind of unknowingly highlights this largely-unspoken disconnect in american society and the utter cluelessness of its own creators and others like them in the extremely-online and self-obsessed american yuppie culture.
Everything about him makes sense when you realize he is the average American moron.
>>2826792Least psychotic and bloodthirsty hetero male
>>2829122Posted it again award
>>2828025>I don't think his support for Israel is a result of his stroke, I think the other insane shit as well as his severe dedication to Israel beyond that of even the typical Democrat is the result of his stroke … His staffers have fucking insane stories about him sending them gore and all of this wild shit>>2828158>the more likely explanation, the one most of us don't like to think about, is that human beings are, by and large, very weak and impressionable and have flimsy principles that they will readily abandon whenever there is a change of circumstances that makes them no longer convenient to uphold.I think another thing that can happen to people is a kind of cognitive stamping from "traumatic" events that more or less permenantly alters their brain and how they see things.
Like, idk, but Fetterman was a pro-Israel guy (probably had Jewish friends, he was involved in Democratic Party politics in Pennsylvania) which operated at the level of "common sense" for him. Then 10/7 happened and it shocked him and the stroke didn't help. There are gory pictures of what happened, like a bunker with Israeli soldiers got grenaded and they all died in it, and so there are pics of the aftermath that looks like a bloodbath, and to him it just looked insane, but for whatever reason in his own mind he was unable to grasp the events realistically and in their historical context. Yes, it is "crazy" on some level to launch a military assault on Israeli military positions and kill people because that's not "normal" and it's not "common sense" to John Fetterman, but to
simply reduce it to a "crazy" or irrational/mad outburst can quickly unhinge a person. Like he'd just start gibbering "Hamas hates us… Hamas hates us… they must be destroyed…. Hamas hates us." Dude is just having nightmares about monsters under his bed like a five-year-old at this point. And he sees these "monsters" everywhere. Palestine protesters = Hamas. It has stamped on his brain and he carries that division through everything else he sees.
But people like predictable progression. Not too predictable (which is boring), but most people don't like too much chaos. People can experience suddenly losing their job as a traumatic event. They get used to stability, but capitalism being what it is produces human wreckage. It's like music, Taylor Swift is popular but the songs build up so the audience can anticipate the chorus and jump at the same time. It works on the level of the human brain. You introduce too much dissonance, the "music" stops making sense and people get confused or anxious. You can also deliberately fuck this up by injecting "chaos" into stable systems, which is done in warfare. The point isn't just to physically destroy an enemy but overwhelm their senses with so much chaos that they're unable to react rationally to what's going on. Physical destruction of enemy forces is not really the "goal" so much, it's a method in pursuit of the goal, which is to break down the enemy system to the point where it collapses.
The other example I was thinking of was COVID. Like, people are living predictable lives and then it's like there's a VIRUS and there's something out there that is trying to kill you but you don't really understand it or why. You can't go to restaurants or do the things that were a normal part of your life. You get injected with vaccines introduced with needles into your flesh. This experience stamped itself on people's brains and they will carry that with them for the rest of their lives, and that has altered how they see everything else, how they see THE WORLD, even if any particular thing that is happening is not related to COVID at all, it's how they interpret their reality.
>>2828263>My point isn't whether the average person was more brutal, my point was comparing the USA where the brutality is voluntary with tsarist Russia where the brutality was not only overwhelmingly drafted, but the people were much more poor on average. It's not a sensible comparison at all. It's apples to oranges. I was responding to Tomdatinker comparing an actual Bolshevik, Zhukov, to Graham Platner. >>2828270>I think it's all pretty true when it comes to Platner himself, but in general the distinction between volunteers and conscripts is misguided. It's based in a moral judgement of people and not their usefulness or necessity to the cause.I have to point out that one of the criteria for admission to the Communist International as set up by Lenin was that
persistent and systematic propaganda and agitation must be conducted in the armed forces, and Communist cells formed in every military unit. To do otherwise was tantamout to "betrayal" or "revolutionary duty." They didn't make a distinction between volunteer and conscripted armies. I don't think people today really understand how militarized Bolshevism was, and how a major effort was conducted in many countries around the globe to keep people who read Lenin out of the armed forces. For very understandable reasons!
I don't think Graham Platner is a Bolshevik and they might have considered him a social-patriot/chauvinist, but I'm just saying. Part of what's going on is also just vulgar anti-Americanism as well, like really there are leftists who just don't like America or Americans in general. Some will openly say that but some don't want to because it sounds vulgar and stupid, so they will come up with something that sounds like a good reason.
>>2829085>It's a hasbara campaign. Don't fall for it.That too.
>>2829085>>2829182Platner is pedophile.
>>2829183You support pedophile with paragraphs. You are epstein.
>>2828864Judging people by their enemies is completely legit. There's a reason why zios hate platner and love fishback.
>>2828260>There is a clear difference between Fetterman becoming the most conservative Democrat in the Senate after campaigning as a progressive and Zohran being more centrist than he made himself out to be. There is a spectrum to betrayal, I'm trying to say that all politicians will betray you but enormous shifts in ideology upon taking office in the way we saw with Fetterman are not common nor can they be predicted. If you are trying to argue that politicians in the US regularly make the enormous shifts you saw with people like Fetterman then you are out of your mind. The central point I was making about Fetterman in relation to Platner is that Platner will obviously vote more Right-Wing than he campaigns but trying to determine if he'll pull a Fetterman is a fool's errand, as Fetterman was a pretty unique case.Give up, dick rider. People dont want to hear your copes. You know platner is a pedophile. Any man should kill themsevles if they type this much cope to help out a pedophile. Everyone you speak of is in the same political party, so all your copes over catagorizing what is and isnt betrayals are meaningless.
>>2829191Bernie is a zio and he love platner. You have been utterly destroyed
>>2829025>pic>wordstruke. i feel like i'm taking crazy pills watching these people cope for another dem. they tend to disappear after the campaign is over so they are probably paid shills.
>>2829028>also they really hate it when they "become leftist" and you don't immediately trust them unconditionally and give them leadership positions in your org. it's kinda like a person who uses apologies as a means of getting forgiveness. if you don't forgive them right away they get really angry and detract the apology or try to strong arm you into forgiving them.yeah i've noticed that too. i'm very very very very very very sowwy for my war crimes and glowie connections. please forgive me by giving me power
here's something interesting i noticed: popular nominally-leftist clickbait media outlet "the young turks" have been relentlessly kissing graham platner's ass and platforming him on their show and going through all kinds of mental gymnastics to excuse his past behavior, decrying the scandal as a "hatchet job" and accusing anyone who criticizes platner of being conservative shills or the reactionary woke mob, yet simultaneously the young turks have also been relentlessly attacking noam chomsky for his past connection to jeffrey epstein and accusing him of being a pedophilia apologist and a co-conspirator in an international sex trafficking ring and saying there is no excuse for him having any kind of connection to epstein at any time and that noam chomsky should be cancelled.
noam chomsky has been one of the most influential and prolific voices in american leftist discourse since the vietnam war up until his recent stroke that left him paralyzed and unable to communicate, arguably the foremost critic of american imperialism, authoritarianism, and the neoliberal capitalist system, writing books and essays and giving public talks about these issues for over 50 years. but because he was in contact with jeffrey epstein over 15 years ago and accepted a financial donation from him, this manipulative criminal psychopath who reached out to several respected public figures after his first conviction in a desperate attempt to try and use their credibility to repair his public reputation, none of his past contributions to the world matter anymore and he's a complete piece of shit and must be cancelled, this frail 97 year old man who has been out of the public arena and practically comatose withering away in his deathbed for the past three years.
graham platner, on the other hand, spent most of his career working as a ruthless hired killer, first for the us marine corps and then for private military contractors like blackwater, he has murdered countless people and openly and publicly gloated about it for over a decade and says that he genuinely enjoys killing people and that the people he killed were subhuman and deserve to be killed, he has even mocked his own fellow servicemen in the us military for being shot in combat, he has disparaged rape victims saying they should "take responsibility" for what happened to them, made racist comments about black people, and he has a neo-nazi symbol tattooed permanently on his chest. but because he recently entered politics as a populist democrat who hates trump and he covered up his tattoo with another stupid tattoo, we are supposed to forget about all of that and give him the benefit of the doubt.
>>2829183The guy drove by a school once
The school is by a road and he might have been driving by it to go somewhere else but some people who are pedos drive by schools
>>2829185I think you guys should try enlisting in the military more.
>>2829085Nobody is defending zionist politicians on this board, fuckwit.
>>2829377Well except for the ones defending Platner I mean… Heyoooh!
>>2829377>Nobody is defending zionist politicians on this boardits literally the only thing people do here everyday non-stop
>>2829385What has Platner said in support of Zionism?
Platner is a gerontophile.
The American left can’t decide as to whether or not Platner should be accepted or whether his record in the Iraq war coupled with his unrepentance disqualifies him.
Personally, I think it’s a nothingburger since Platner winning or losing in Maine will have any effect on the overall scheme. Leftists online think they can repeat the 2016 alt-right strategy of meme’ing one of their own into the white house, forgetting that:
1.Democrats and the GOP are the same since both belong to the uniparty
2.The reason the alt-right even succeeded had largely to do with early adoption of new tech, the republican TEA party which provided the foundations for a populist bloc within the GOP, and most of all that the GOP during the first Trump term was way more divided than it is now, and the Dems at any point in the 21st century.
Understanding material conditions is key and, let’s face it, the far-left will never have any major sway within the Democratic Party. Hasan, Kat, AOC, etc… are all just controlled opposition and DNC shills who only serve to de-radicalise any normie on the verge of Bolshevisation.
>>2829616I think he's likely to win in Maine and when he does I think it will be a signal of how little sway the far left has on electoral outcomes
It'll be interesting to see Cole
Someone whose ideologically/policy-wise closer than the average American bourgeois politician wins and they tried to disqualify them on other grounds and had no influence on the outcome Funnily enough there was some polling showing the tattoo controversy made Maine voters like him more lol
>>2829616>are all just controlled opposition and DNC shills who only serve to de-radicalise any normie on the verge of BolshevisationWhile I agree with rejecting any and all cooperation with the Democratic Party, I'd say that "normies on the verge of Bolshevization" are so rare that they're effectively nonexistent. Given the state of the worker's movement, normies on the verge of trade union consciousness are far more prevalent, and probably looming much larger in the nightmares of the DNC. Hasan, Zohran and their ilk at the very least are useful for that, and this process is a prerequisite for class consciousness. I agree about Platner though, he's ultimately a nothingburger and I honestly don't understand why such an inconsequential figure is occupying so much of the discourse.
>>2829573>stalin>the guy who went full antizionism as soon as he realized israel would always be an imperialist tool and made it the official policy of the USSR>so much that he immediately got accused of antisemitism by all the anticommunistskys
>>2829626How old are you? The whole "just need to push workers slightly left via electorialism and social democracy" has been repeated billions of times and it's failed every single time. There have been countries with social democratic politicians in power who were MUCH further to the left than Bernie, and they ruled for decades and it resulted in nothing.
>>2829690>just need to push workers slightly left via electorialism and social democracyI didn't say that. I said that trade union consciousness is a prerequisite for class consciousness.
>There have been countries with social democratic politicians in power who were MUCH further to the left than Bernie, and they ruled for decades and it resulted in nothingGood thing I never said that social democracy would lead to socialism then. What I'm arguing is that you need a worker's movement before you can have a socialist movement.
>>2829693A workers movement will be coopted by the state unless its guided by communists to remain hostile to the state from the start. And that includes being hostile to all forms of reformism. Which includes being opposed to social democrats like Graham Platner.
>>2828952>A literal /pol/tard would be an improvementhistorically speaking, when the equivalent of poltards take over, and oust the already-awful normie government, things tend to get worse, not better. basically they have the same policies with none of the restraint. i suppose it's an improvement if you're an accelerationist or not one of the groups they're targeting directly.
>>2829696you're right but good luck with that in the U$A
>>2829697No it depends on which kind of fascist were talking about. There have always been two distinct kinds of fascists. One is just an opportunist who uses fascism to carry out their personal ideological goals like killing minorities. This type is also economically illiterate and rapidly fucks up the economy.
The other is a more intelligent one who uses fascism to enforce class collaboration. Like Singapores Lee Kuan Yew or the various Gulf monarchies.
In the first case you end up with a shitty dictatorships that delivers none of its promises other than harming the outgroups while also harming ingroups. In the second case you end up with genuine improvements in standards of living for everyone.
Neither are good obviously, but accelerationisrs need to understand that the second one does the opposite of acceleration, it completely ossifies class struggle.
>>2829701sure but i didn't say fascist or fascism. i said the historical equivalent of poltards. there's way more historical examples of poltards to draw from than just fascism. roman soldiers raping gaulic women? historical poltards. crusaders killing christians on the way to loot jerusalem? historical poltards. charles 1st during the english civil war? historical poltard. it hurt itself in its confusion!
>>2829673You're confusing antisemitism with anti zionism
Many antisemities are zionist, stalin no exception.
>>2829646yeah it's kind of strange but I think the strategy here is to try and be as uniformly supportive of the blue candidates who espouse more progressive rhetoric in the same way that the right wing will unanimously galvanize around pretty much anyone on their side.
you hear people like destiny bitch about this a lot, the idea that the left is too atomized and fractured compared to the right which is this highly orchestrated think tank that moves in unison with whatever the agenda happens to be. is it the right course of action? beats me.
>>2829696>A workers movement will be coopted by the state unless its guided by communists to remain hostile to the state from the start. That's simply unrealistic and isn't going to happen. No worker's movement in history has ever sprung into existence fully formed and class conscious. It takes struggle and experience to forge such a thing. Like it or not social democrats are going to be part of this process, and some degree of cooperation is going to be necessary. I wouldn't say this includes Platner since he's Democrat and we shouldn't be touching them with a fifty foot pole, but it does include socdems outside of the Democratic Party apparatus.
Platnerites on xitter repeatedly suggest that leftists must have agents inside the regime's armed forces and that Platner is that. To justify this they invoke the Russian revolution which shows how ignorant they are of the history of the Russian revolution. The Bolsheviks and Mensheviks agitated among the conscripts not volunteers. High ranking military leaders only switched sides once the Bolsheviks had taken over. They were threatened and coerced into service of the revolution.
>>2829837>The Bolsheviks and Mensheviks agitated among the conscripts not volunteersThey agitated amongst both. Lenin wrote extensively about this topic and never drew a distinction between conscripts and volunteers. Such a distinction makes no sense unless you unironically believe that the grip of reactionary ideology can't be broken. It's still nonsense in relation to Platner though since he's not in the military anymore, and is an active member if an imperialist bourgeois party.
>>2829837>The Bolsheviks and Mensheviks agitated among the conscripts not volunteersthey obviously did both retard
Platner supposedly has PTSD; do you think it's possible to exploit this weakness and induce a psychotic episode, ideally cause him to commit suicide?
>>2828689>God dad bods are fucking disgusting man.you should probably make peace with it because statistically speaking you will almost certainly eventually have one
>>2830642Has this guy only got one arm?
>>2829945i'll kill myself
>>2833293I watched cuckinsky a while back and he seemed to almost be a comrade. guess I'll have to check back again in a few years
Ignoring volunteer soldiers is bleeding heart moralism, normal of "anti-imperialists". Having said that, Platner is a useless socdem lmao.
>>2833333You mean when he used to dickride fetterman right. Fetterman used to be your ally and his ally. You dick rider. You epstein you wrong
>>2833293Imma say it again really loud. Kkkyle kkklyinsky dick rided fetterman. If you say, oh gee kkkylisnky used to be based. You are fetterman. You are kkkyle kkkylinskkky. You are platner.
And lastly. Imagine if bad empanada was chairman of aipac. Imagine if bad empanada had infinte power and wealth of aipac and he focused all of it on platner and like 2 other like he has. I say this nonsense because that is what democrats actually believe. Now imagine how easily and how few money it take to destroy platner if they didnt pull punches. How bad empanada could make a single video instead of a hundred to destroy platner. He incel nazi rapist redditor. Anyone can destroy him, so why is aipac spending nothing against him?
>>2833356To be fair to Kyle, Fetterman was a totally different person back then, before the brain damage. Though Fetterman has always been pro Israel.
>>2829716The inverse was true prior to Biden 2020, where the GOP was still divided between centre-right neocons and populist Tea party-style MAGApedes, compared to the Democrat Party which was less divided and more uniform in their push towards neoliberalism. The democrats were and still are the party of the bourgeoisie, it’s just that Palestine and the virulent agitation of the Jewish lobby has led to a split between the gerantocratic DNC and the younger and more populist voter base, with the DSA being just a tool to deradicalise the latter into liberal electoralism that leads nowhere (as is the case with AOC and The Squad, Zohran, Kat, etc…).
But fast forward to Trump 2024, and the GOP is more unified than ever behind Trump to the point of being little more than a quasi-personality cult full of opportunistic “preachers” of MAGA-ism.
As for the Democrats’ split, comparing it to the MAGA-2010s RNC split is too generous since the DNC never really had to deal with a serious populist blowback within their ranks. I would say it’s more like the Democrat version of the Tea Party more than anything else, although I’m not optimistic about it since the Democratic Party as a whole acts more like a privileged club than as an actual political party.
>>2833372Wrong. Fetterman had stroke before he was elected. Kyle sucked him off for years.
>>2833419Fetterman only showed his true colors [or damaged ones] after he got elected.
>>2829025Came here to post this.
I don't think P-Hustle is a rapist because he assaulted some GOP trigger-woman, and if I did, maybe I'd have a modicum of respect for him.
I KNOW Graham Platner is a rapist because he guarded a prison known exclusively for being a place where ameriKKKan troopSS raped Iraqi civillians for FUCKING YEARS!
100% chance picrel and P-hustle crossed paths at the very minimum.
You're all doing great man theory of history. A single candidate isn't going to bring about the end of or carry out imperialism on behalf of the American juggernaut. Congress subsumes and accommodates fascists, extremists, and psychopaths alike and that won't change based on who's holding a Senate seat from Maine.
>>2834009>>2829025I could've fixed her with my BBC
>>2833348>Ignoring volunteer soldiersCorrect. Volunteer, also known as the freikorps
>>2833293>>2833333>>2833354you guys gotta go easier on kyle, he's not your enemy just because he's a "classic left of center liberal" he is doing much to further rhetoric that would have been considered highly radical in the mid 90s - mid 2000s.
populism is good, it paves the way to radical change, if only incrementally. you want to be mad at someone? be mad at moderates like shoeonhead and provocateurs like destiny or contrapoints. they're the real liberals who don't want revolution; kyle is only slightly left of them, and perhaps can be persuaded.
kyle is a better ally that hasan will ever be, lemme just say that.
No one pointed out he has gyno from steroid use
Hail Graham Platner hail our people hail victory
Anti-Platnerites are the tools of capitalists and Zionists. They want to re-elect an evil Zionist fascist (Susan Collins).
https://www.pressherald.com/2026/06/12/see-the-97-billionaires-and-their-spouses-backing-susan-collins/The smear campaign against Platner is transparently a hasbara campaign designed to trick idiotic liberals into thinking it's evil Nazi man vs wholesome old woman. In reality Susan Collins has done far more evil through policy than any one soldier through actions ever could.
>>2833419Fetterman had the stroke DURING his campaign, he was in the hospital for it on the night he won the primary if i recall correctly. Then he won the general based off his progressive (except for palestine obviously) record. There likely wasn't an anti-israel candidate running at all in the 2022 Pennsylvania primary, as compared to Maine where the anti-israel candidate, Platner, is the nominee.
>>2836673>great man theory of historyMLs in general surrendered to that nonsense once they started emphasizing personality cults as a means of national stability
>>2838323>Old Imperialist Hag vs Fascist FootsoldierGod bless Democracy.
>>2829278>glowm chomskyHe's just a liberal smol bean who knowingly schmoozed with a convicted sex trafficker of underaged girls.
Forget Platner or Massie. There’s an Anti-AIPAC candidate running for Congress in NJ:
Terrisa Bukovinac is 100% anti-Zionist and refuses to take a penny from AIPAC. She will not kiss the wall. She is also very attractive and conservative (which most working-class people are) AND a socialist. Ziorats will most likely run a smear campaign against her do she needs all the love she can get.
Reminder stopping Zionists starts with voting against their puppets in Congress. The left needs to do as much as it can for Palestine, and one of the best things it can do is campaign for politicians who are openly anti-Zionist.
Terrisa needs all the support she can get since Zionist and Malthusian elites will try to silence her like they did Platner
And can we PLEASE get Jimmy Dore or Caleb Maupin to interview her?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DZaJ6OTxog1/https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZLOav8Im-5E>>2826855you can't have a revolution without people willing to kill, but you want comrades who see killing as a means to an end, not psychopaths who see killing as the end and our ideology as merely the means by which they can get away with it. that's the difference between a Zhukov and a Beria.
>>2834009assuming this person sodomized people w that thing, funny to think she was my countryman and is probably well-off w some consulting gig or gainfully retired.
>>2833372>To be fair to Kyle, Fetterman was a totally different person back then, before the brain damageno he really wasn't, he was just better at faking it. the jogger incident is the best known example of him always being a hotheaded asshole, but I have also been in the same room as pre-stroke fetty IRL and witnessed him raging out the exact same way at some mild left pushback from a fucking DSA meeting. the stroke didn't make him an asshole, it just took away his ability to pretend he wasn't
>>2826855People are desperate to reduce criticism of Graham Platner to the rejection of ex USA military people in a wider movement when it's never been that. There are plenty of clearly repentant veterans with with histories of activism and political experience. That background is important in that it makes it more likely that this is a person you can trust to cooperate with your political agenda. Platner does not have that. On the contrary he has an extremely sketchy background
which he has lied about. Furthermore many supposedly radical independent journalists and media figures (Ryan Grim, Majority Report, Hasan Piker) have repeatedly lied about him. They said he regrets his participation in the military, he doesn't. They said he is anti-war, he isn't. They said he is anti Israel, he's a liberal zionist. They said he has a working class background, he owns an oyster business and comes from a business owning family.
Regarding his class background, it is not a moral failing that he is from a bourgeoisie family, but it's the fact that he and the previously mentioned media people have lied about it. And when that lie and all the others are pointed out, all those legitimate demonstrable criticisms and their conclusion (that there is no good reason to trust this guy and they should have gotten a better candidate), are waved away by Grim, ME, Piker etc. as incoherent crying by tankies or ultras or third worldists. If you are not from the USA, they'll jump to "stfu this isn't your country", as if USA senators weren't people with powers that can affect whole planet. If you are from the USA they'll throw the contrapoints/basil criticism at you (not verbatim because that would be too embarrassing for them): "you don't want power you just want to endlessly critique power". Which has been endlessly ripped apart but once again: any ideologically driven person does not want power just for it's own sake, they want the things that that power can obtain, in the case of leftists a better socioeconomic system.
>>2839037truthfully I don't remember any of what he said in that meeting that wasn't angry hollering. because I was in the back of the room and he absolutely refused to use a microphone, no matter how many times we tried to tell him it was an accessibility issue. every single other candidate just got up at the podium and spoke, but he insisted on doing his fakeass "man of the people" act in the middle of the aisle and refused to touch the wireless mic they kept trying to hand him
(yeah I know, lol DSA electoral shit, I was a dumbass and had to learn the hard way how retarded it was)
>>2838380Total pro-lifer death
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