/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2829222
culture war shit

>>2829222
nobody thinks all those good things about conservatives except conservatives.

>>2829228
Really? How come the right meme exists then?
>>2829225
More like worry over our optics.

the left killed itself by being known as the tr*nny side

>>2829305
It's only now that "tr*nny side" is considered bad, and "Epstein side" is considered good legitimate.
I remember the commies writing something about a culture war in the last century - well, we only lost it because the bourgeoisie took over. LGBT is now idpol, feminism is sexist, and anti-racism movements are barbarians and vandals.

>>2829305
>they're only 1% of the population and therefore aren't that important
>but also hitching your wagon to them ruins everything else you stand for
pick 1 or maybe stop having trans derangement syndrome, inb4 you accuse me of being trans, i'm not. i'm actually a regular guy with a family. i just think it's really gay and retarded that you perpetuate this narrative

>>2829322
>considered good legitimate.
Fixed

>>2829322
Cultural legitimacy is extremely valuable and the left took it for granted. Admittedly it was deliberately steered away from certain issues (economics and Palestine) into harmless time sinks like trans rights by the regime.
But the left became extremely dogmatic and obsessive about this issue that was rightly extremely marginal just a generation ago.

>>2829333
So trans rights are a distraction, but the deserted shithole is the number two problem after the economy?
Also, you can't rely on economics alone anymore; the workers' situation is too good now, and a revolution on this basis is impossible (at least in first-world countries; the third world still suffers from unbearable economic conditions, which can be turned into a revolution with a couple of PMCs and a million dollars).

>>2829347
It's not about problems retard, it's about what the regime will allow the masses a say over. Clearly economic policy and Pissrael are non-negotiable in that regard and are totally dictated by the donor class on both sides.

>>2829222
It's a miracle Mamdani won after humiliating himself at the weight lifting attempt. Platner is traditional masculine, he loves killing and torture, but everyone assumes he's a secret Zio so he doesn't count I guess. Hasan is metrosexual and needs prostitutes to get laid. About the only group on the left considered masculine are black dudes but it's assumed they're just on the left because the right is racist.

>>2829225
culture war shit is all that's left. People don't actually give a shit about economics
>>2829305
Too much of an autism score filter to ditch trans people. Like sure it would probably attract more people if we stopped caring about trans people but also if trans stuff is stopping you from being a leftist you're an incredibly stupid person and I think you'd be more of a liability to our movement than anything.

>>2829409
>>2829352
Bleak

>>2829409
It's less about trans stuff specifically and more the predominence of it in leftwing politics, especially in America, when you're in a shitty economical situation and all the democrats have to sell you is "trans rights" when they're very unpopular ideas. I'm not shocked people are going to support the republicans who at least try to talk to the average person.

idk I never met this would-be-leftist turned right because of trans issues, it seems it only exists on the internet and in the heads of some people, i did however meet rightists claiming to be "economically left culturally right" and I don't this we should appease these people in the movement

>>2829516
"economically left, culturally right" is the most popular position even if very much underepresented politically. People like left wing economics but generally dislike social liberalism.
But I'm more talking about relatively apolitical people who only care every few elections. If you want to win elections, you need to convince people.
See it from their perspective, the last few years their personal situation has been getting worse, so they want awnser from politicians, on one hand you have a party telling them everything is fine economically, and focusing on 1% of the population and pushing foward unpopulat policies for them, on the other hand you have a party telling them that it's because immigrants have been stealing their jobs, because the other party is incompetent, etc…
If you don't know shit about politics, who are you going to vote for ?

>>2829520
>"economically left, culturally right" is the most popular position even if very much underepresented politically. People like left wing economics but generally dislike social liberalism
I think that's a partly myth and you say it like it has never been tried. The BSW in Germany, Katter's Australia and the KSČM in the Czech Republic have all tried that shtick and failed miserably. The problem is that when people cast a protest "anti-system" vote they just go for the original right-wing populists and they generally feel that this is biggest middle finger to an establishment that is perceived as very left-wing - an attribute a "culturally conservative but economically right wing" party still has to associate with somewhat.

It doesn't help that the rest of the left calls these parties fascist, so they have to draw support exclusively from the right. Most right wing voters also view the cultural politics (migration, etc.) as the cause of the economic problems (you can't have healthcare with migration etc.).

Plus the China boogeyman which is non-negotiable for many right-wingers.

>>2829535
*culturally conservative and economically left wing of course

>>2829222
Richard Hanania is good on this.
https://www.richardhanania.com/p/liberals-read-conservatives-watch
https://www.richardhanania.com/p/why-is-everything-liberal

The point really needs to be hammered home that rightists are retards with defective personalities, and ideally one would seek common cause with libertarian/neoliberal types on the principle of disenfranchising such people. (Not literally taking their votes away, but setting up institutions in such a way that they're impervious to assault by idiots.) The alternative is open barbarism, which is always and everywhere the preference of the global rightoid movement. (One grand irony is that while they consider themselves nationalist, almost every "right-populist" movement is the same while almost every country's left is sui-generis…)

>>2829305
Wrong. The rise of transgenderism is basically rooted in technological changes that cannot be stopped without extreme cost (glibly: the internet lowers the social cost of transitioning, raises awareness of how to do it, and facilitates working around any attempt to legally prevent it.) which all but guarante that in the long run society is just going to have to accept it.

>>2829333
The way you slap "Palestine" on there is so slapdash as to be embarrassing. Yes, the reason the average leftist basically ignored Palestine in 2010 is because in 4 years they were going to get really invested in Trans issues. The approximate peak of mainstream liberal concern for trans issues in 2017-20 before the current reactionary tilt could've totally been about Palestine but for those dastardly transhumanists. Shut the fuck up, idiot.

>>2829351
The regime doesn't let the masses have a say over anything. Public opinion to a high extent flows from the regime, which is one reason that rightoids are retarded. (They actually fall for it while high-education left-liberals ignore it. See Jeremy Corbyn: degree-educated people voted Labour in 1997-landslide numbers in 2019 because they were smart enough to put ideology over smears, but uneducated people swung right because they were dumb enough to listen to the press's lies.)

>>2829515
There is no such thing as the average person. The average person is an abstraction that kind-of-sort-of proxied the median TV viewer back in an age of coherent mass media, but in the internet age there is no such thing. "Average person" thinking is the kind of thing that gets you Kamala chasing Republican endorsements in the assumption that there's a "middle ground" you can move to, Starmer trying to ape Reform in the assumption that the average voter is a sort of half-educated half-racist half-socdem Blairite rather than facing the reality that the country is more or less split down the middle between young people and degree holders on the one side, and older people and the uneducated on the other, and that any move to appease one will piss off the other.

>>2829520
It's the most popular position in theory but it's a joke position in reality. Anyone who'll vote against left-wing economics because of social issues doesn't really care about left-wing economics and anyone who'll vote against socially conservative positions in pursuit of left-wing economics doesn't really care about their socially conservative positions. When you try to chase these people it has the net effect of alienating everyone.

>>2829535
The rest of the left is basically correct to call these parties right-wing. I hate to be glib but: Leftism is basically an ideology of non-idiots, and cultural conservatism proxies being an idiot world wide.

This wasn't always the case, sure. Education used to correlate with economic position more strongly, so you got a nice curve between "uneducated poor leftists" and "educated rich rightists", but the mass expansion of higher education and its increased accessibility (thank you, third way neoliberals! sincerely!) has flipped this curve: now rightists are still wealthy but under-educated (your "skip uni, start a small business" type + your "i've got my fat pension" old reactionary + a handful of lumpen) and leftists are underpaid and over-educated. (your "i studied English Literature in the expectation i'd still enjoy a standard of living comparable to my parents" archetype + public sector workforce, administrators, people who don't want to think of themselves as sociopaths, etc.)

>>2829520
>economically left, culturally right
is a stupid line to tow,if the people want to vote for anti-immigration,they laser focus on that and vote for the most turbo right-wingers,instead of the limp dicked "leftists" that pretend for votes and everybody knows they're just doing an electoral move and don't expect it to be respected once elected

>>2829545
Rowling is a bad example. Rowling is a Blairite which, for non UK-readers, is a type of conservative. Even before she was famous for being anti-trans (in a certain sense gratifying because it meant American liberals could finally see she wasn't a friend) she was anti-Corbyn and anti-Palestine. This was written in 2016 https://samkriss.com/2016/09/13/jk-rowling-and-the-cauldron-of-discourse/ and picrel is of a similar vintage.

Insofar as she's a feminist, she's a feminist of the "let me into the Garrick Club" type.

>>2829535
You're right in terms of political parties, but I meant more in terms of policies, polling regularly show that left wing economical policies are broadly popular, while social ones are controversial.
There was been a weakening of protest votes for far right parties these last few years, notably France, as the protest votes have been replaced by regular right wing voters. But you'll notice that even the populist right winger claim to support left wing politics, simply that its because of immigration that they can't do it, this appeals to the economically left, socially right voters. People don't trust left wing parties to enact left wing economic reforms, because the left hasn't tried to do this in years.
>>2829542
Kamala Harris failed exacly because she believed she tried to appeal to right economically and left wing socially voters, anti-trump republicans who view trump as being too extreme, neoconservatives. The People I'm talking about is a whole other group, think of Bernie->Trump voters or Obama-> Trump voters, Kamala didn't even try appealing to them, prefering to lie about the economic situation. Kamala's campaign in general was just fucked tho, you can't win after having lied for years about Biden being senile.
More generally, as the left has given up on economic reforms due to being controlled by privileged degree holders who fundamentally believe in the end of history, this has only let the culture war as the only battle left, and while the left started off winning it, now they're losing for a variety of different reasons, but mostly because it's not improving things for the majority and because it became more and more focused on smaller causes. What the left needs to do is to focus on economics again (not necessarly become socially conservative, simply become like it was prior to May 68, tolerant but not centered), but it can't as long as its owned and controlled by the the petit bourgeois.

>>2829550
You are overthinking my point. Rowling think trans are privileged white male who want to opress multiracial women with their white male aura. That is fact.

>>2829542
>now rightists are still wealthy but under-educated (your "skip uni, start a small business" type + your "i've got my fat pension" old reactionary + a handful of lumpen) and leftists are underpaid and over-educated. (your "i studied English Literature in the expectation i'd still enjoy a standard of living comparable to my parents" archetype
Ever wondered why that is? I think we need more entrepreneurship on the left, and less going into the institutions. Going through the indoctrination machine of the bourgeois state is not preferable than being an independent small business chud

>>2829352
>It's a miracle Mamdani won after humiliating himself at the weight lifting attempt.
There's a funny right-wing conspiracy theory that he failed on purpose by showing he needed help to appeal to weak girly men who want the government to assist them.

>Platner is traditional masculine, he loves killing and torture, but everyone assumes he's a secret Zio so he doesn't count I guess.
The whole thing that Planter WANTED to kill people is a recurrent theme for people who don't like him for different reasons. It's like, oh my God, that's just like, wrong. You can't just think that. You can vote for killing people, actually we should vote for politicians who do, and not him. Nobody here has ever had those feelings either I'm sure. I would NEVER ever think that because I'm a good person.

>>2829542
>Wrong. The rise of transgenderism is basically rooted in technological changes that cannot be stopped without extreme cost
Trvth

>>2829542
>It's the most popular position in theory but it's a joke position in reality. Anyone who'll vote against left-wing economics because of social issues doesn't really care about left-wing economics and anyone who'll vote against socially conservative positions in pursuit of left-wing economics doesn't really care about their socially conservative positions.
Ultimately it probably just comes down to status. That's what that social stuff is really about. I see rightoids complain about losing the "culture" because there is no trad town to move to, the girl at the Dollar General is trans and poor. It's icky. Wow gee the aristocracy which they're romanticizing was only ever 1-3% of the population anywhere ever and everyone else were barbarians.

>>2829352
>but everyone assumes he's a secret Zio
This doesnt really work anymore though the people that you're seeing doing this are hasbara bots and few brown guys on twitter.
>>2829568
>I see rightoids complain about losing the "culture" because there is no trad town to move to, the girl at the Dollar General is trans and poor
Lol i think we saw the same xeet. But for the last part, i have remarked these guys canonise any random fat hick under 45 with dyed hair they see as trans in order to push an agenda among their dwindling "EHC tech right" audience, when most of these people are MAGA now.
Pre 2024 these guys would xost endlessly about trans actually all being privileged cosmopolitans stealing the rural whites money or wathever. Very transparant hasbara going on.

>Culture industry doing culture industry
if only there was someone who spilled a ton of ink writing about this topic

Do you seriously wonder why the left is perceived as weak and not oppositional to the establishment when 99% of the left agreed with the COVID restrictions that was the biggest wealth transfer in human history, supported the bourgeois-imperialist state and pharmaceutical monopoly capital in forcing an untested experimental drug into your body four times, organized by a cabal that later turned out to be a network of pedophiles?

>>2829888
So we should have just let even more people die instead?

>>2829888
>pharmaceutical monopoly capital in forcing an untested experimental drug into your body four times, organized by a cabal that later turned out to be a network of pedophiles?
They also tell us that lead paint is bad too, so that must mean it's good!

>>2829891
"We" already implies that there is a common interest between the ruling class and the working classes. Funny that this argument is never made when it comes to "humanitarian interventions" by Western powers.

>>2829520
>>2829535
ShoeOnHead is like the poster woman for "Economically left, culturally right" people and they always just go right in the end. To some degree being a pure rightiod is seen as cringe, but only because a lot of chuds give off cuck vibes.

>>2829895
>"We" already implies that there is a common interest between the ruling class and the working classes.

to the extent that neither want to get sick and die, kinda

>>2829222
It's 100% astroturfed propaganda.
Leftists who help promote it are useful idiots. Essentially victim blaming.
We should be focusing on structural (capitalist) opposition to socialism, not the individual faults of internet leftists.

>>2829325
>they're only 1% of the population and therefore aren't that important
>but also hitching your wagon to them ruins everything else you stand for
>pick 1

why pick 1 if they're both true? its true transhumanists aren't a big deal, atleast until they're swinging their pps in the ladies locker room anyway, then it very suddenly becomes a very big deal for like nearly every women and working class person on the planet. The two points aren't mutually exclusive

>>2829305
>>2830152
You are on the side of billionaire pedophiles, don't fucking talk about the working class ever again you disgusting subhuman.

>>2829325
Both points are true. Trans people are a tiny minority that largely irrelevant, but a lot of people are straight up disgusted by them, so protecting them gets you on the bad side of most of society.

>>2830712
If they were actually irrelevant there couldnt be a transcontinental culture war over them. This is always embarassing when pro-trans or anti-trans or even trans-neutral say this in order to push wathever agenda they have. You cannot be the center of everyones attention from New York City to a decrepit town in rural Hungary and be "irrelevant".
And why did the mods delete my post itt over "bait"? There was no joke or trolling here.

>>2829893
Lead paint protects us from 5G thats why it is banned.

Also to expand on OPs point. The collective organic decision all left of center movement/personnalities did in the 2010 or not appearing on reactionaries medias and to never debate directly reactionaries turned out to be a complete disaster. It made us look like pussies at worst or a weird sneering eggheads clique at best.
It's only good to withold when your top guy available is a mental cripple or have personality issues. Otherwise most appearances do not hurt even when the debate is "lost".
It was beyond frustrating to have leftists jumping at your throat for going on Rogan debating some conservatard because it would be "platforming them" when they are much more famous than our guys to begin with. A melange of delusion and being a wimp.
uyghas tried to cancel Hasan for going on Piers Morgan.