/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2858689
Coward.

>>2853401
>muh sahel coalition gang raping gay men
a crumb of evidence, sire?

>>2858190
Vatnik was created by Anton Konovalov (“Chadsky”). Lurk moar, amerimutt

>>2854272
Wrong. The DPRK was a socialist state until recently, when they approved the new constitution

>>2859302
Elaborate. Constitution of which year? What in particular changed? I hear people make the opposite argument sometimes, that with recent constituional changes made them on the path again due to re-including phrases like "communism".
I start to doubt DPRK moreso due to their subordination to United Russia.

>>2859473
>Elaborate. Constitution of which year? What in particular changed?
you think he knows? lol

>>2859254
they won't give you any. ever. stop asking.

>>2859266
That guy fled to Ukraine. Also the infographic doesn't mention Leftypol and similar communities, only thr mainstream social media and /pol/.

>>2859858
yeah 4chan gets credit for a lot of stuff that didn't actually come from there. 4chan is sort of the funnel between schizo and normie so that normies think everything came from there.

>>2854430
>russian imperial flag
well no shit that guy is retarded

international proletariat status?

>>2859858
One of the sources (FPRI) is a CIA think tank. What they're describing might also be generally accurate but I'm not exaggerating.

>>2859302
>>2859473
>>2859705
Here's the full thing: https://www.nkleadershipwatch.org/dprk-constitution-2026/
literally the first line in preamble
>The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is a socialist state centered on the masses of the people, which represents the interests of the Korean people and fights for the cause of socialism.
so yeah they still officially say they are socialist. this can be seen from their current state media reports and articles as well.
there was some confusion about this recently. basically, before south korea leaked this constitution (which for some inexplicable reason the north still hasn't officially published where outsiders can see it), it was reported that the title was changed from "Socialist Constitution of the DPRK" to just "Constitution of the DPRK" so some people took this as an indication that the word socialism was removed throughout the document.

>>2867337
wow. so the allegation made above was based on some nonsense from south korea and not actual evidence. nice.

>>2859254
still waiting on this one

>>2856289
>authoritarian russian regime that actively makes the lives of its people more miserable
>>2856301
<in the real world Russia has its faults but isn't nearly as bad as you libtards make it out to be.
>>2856308
>i'm literally russian
laffo

IMO one possibility that multipolarists might not factor is that a mulitpolar system might make it harder to have class conflict, because the class conflict that it will have will tend to produce militaristic states equipped for survival and right-nationalist politics that make it difficult for the left to exist. Now, that might happen anyways.

>>2853401
><monarcho-nazism in DPRK
words have meaning btw

>>2867507
honestly OP is so disgusting it reads like a false flag. and I say this as a so called "campist"

>>2867730
>>2867507
Coping juchoids

>>2867337
It really doesn't matter what they *claim* they are, the facts on the ground make them a monarchy.

>>2867786
No contradiction

>>2853401
>the end of America = the end of Capitalism

The right wing in Latin America and Southeast Asia would lose all political relevance, and most of those countries would become left-wing one-party states—or at least have left-wing majorities—if the United States were to collapse and fragment. These countries would pull off their own Chinese-style economic miracles, and from there on out, it would be an unstoppable snowball effect. Don’t pretend that the Ziggers are relevant or that the European Union is anything more than a puppet regime of the U.S. The only capitalist regimes that would remain in the end would be small, irrelevant, hermit states that would be nothing more than glorified tax havens and desperate attempts by wealthy “lolbertarians” to create their anarcho-capitalist dystopias—and as we already know from Ayn Rand’s writings, libertarians view the world as their personal Minecraft server, so those regimes wouldn’t take long to collapse anyway.

>>2867773
>juchoid
what does this even mean
DPRK is the way it is because america cut the korean peninsula in half, put syngman rhee in power, bombed every city in the north to ashes, destroyed rail, power, sanitation, hospitals, schools, then forced them to rebuild everything while under heavy sanctions. all criticism of juche should be rooted in material analysis of what actually happened to north korea. if america were subjected to the same treatment it would come up with an ideology so repulsive it would make juche look like the purest communism.

>>2868008
>muh material analysis
This is nothing but an excuse for why North Korea is a de facto absolute monarchy. Endlessly going on about why this is the case is simply an attempt to bypass any suggestion they should change their ways.

>>2867893
>The right wing in Latin America and Southeast Asia would lose all political relevance
No they wouldn't lmao

>>2867886
>no citation
always an indicator of a bad actor.

the only source citing this from Stalin is Milovan Djilas'a memoirs and he was a titoite and an anti communist.

>>2868054
if someone much stronger and bigger than you held you down and pummeled you until you had severe permanent brain damage, it would be evident that your decisions from then on would be affected by that event.

>Scroll an ACKsis of resistance multipolarista TG channel a while ago
>Channel owner (Iranian) makes a post praising death of Saddam and predicting the same end for Trump
>Multipolaristas subscribers butthurt and angry because Saddam was obviously part of the resistance!!1!
>Completely oblivious as to why an Iranian Shia might dislike Saddam
Kek

>>2868851
Meh. Politics will always make strange bedfellows. On the one hand it's very easy to have a laugh at multipolarism when it brings together people like this, but at the same time, Communism is supposed to (but often fails to) unite proletarians from the 3rd world with proletarians from the 1st world, racist proletarians with anti-racist proletarians, LGBTphobic proletarians with LGBT proletarians, religious proletarians with nonreligious proletarians, and so on. People who pursue some common interest that is important to them will often find themselves clashing on secondary and tertiary issues. All alliances are freely formed and temporary.

>>2869040
My issue is when when people assemble these incoherent pantheons that have nothing to do anymore with the original struggle. So you end up with Kim Il Sung, Pol Pot, Stalin, Saddam, Gaddafi, Tito, Soleimani, Assad (senior included) , the Taliban and literal CIA and French intelligence backed porky compradors (See Madagascar last year) all venerated as "anti-imperialist" saints.
I don't have an issue with trying to bring movements together regardless of their "traditional" or "problematic" opinions. Except there is no movement here, instead there's people vicariously living through tangentially related far away events and sewing them into a grand narrative inside their heads.

It's what annoys me about all this multipolar nonsense; you have people pretending they're taking a principled stance (which really matters!) in line with the righteous side they've chosen to align with in a world spanning Manichean struggle between Good and Evil. But it's all incoherent ahistorical nonsense.

>>2869127
you write in a whiny tone, fix that

>>2869152
No. I'm annoyed. And this is the one thread where we can dunk on all the identitarian manichean geopol brained board schizos and their "anti-imperialist" ᴉuᴉlossnW pilled "bourgeois vs proletarian nations" bullshit.

>>2869157
I haven't read the thread, but have you done the right thing and disclosed to this thread that you're currently in Ukraine and have fucked multiple people there despite it being a warzone?

Because I think that fact is more important than word salads.

>>2869127
I member when Russia crushed Kazakhstan strikes and protected investments which were overwhelmingly western. Despite multipolarism it's nice to see the nations of the world unite against the workers.

>>2869184
>Clutching pearls over hookups
Champ please touch some grass

>>2853405
The thing with leftcoms is that they want to leave it up all to fate. In a sense, their historical determinism puts them closer to Marx than to Lenin, as Lenin ascribes some agency to humanity in the form of advocating the formation of a vanguard party to bring forth the revolution, as opposed to Marx who thought the revolution would magically appear out of nowhere cause Muh history mode of production n shieet.

Then again, if you asked leftcoms what they would have done differently if they were general party secretary in 1933 in place of Stalin, they (in my experience) often just vague post and tell you there’s nothing you can do and just let it go until the material conditions are such that a revolution is inevitable. How that will come about, and the possibility of a successful counter-revolution are never mentioned by leftcoms.

It’s funny how many leftcoms whine about Stalin being too authoritarian, considering how Bordiga was against democracy as a concept so he would be more authoritarian than Stalin ever was even in anti-communist propaganda.

With that said, in line with this thread: Supporting the partisans and the USSR against the Axis powers in WW2 is historically regressive and campist, ergo it’s bad.

>>2869237
>as opposed to Marx who thought the revolution would magically appear out of nowhere cause Muh history mode of production n shieet.

Really?

"Workers of the world stay in your armchairs! You have everything to lose!" - Marx

Did he say this?

>>2869233
By all means, do explain why you have called yourself thrillpill and why that's not a conflict of interest in your bleeding heart about CIA backed regimes.

>>2869240
That’s a summary of his thoughts, considering how Marx thought the revolution would happen automatically without human agency, considering how orthodox Marxists ascribe determinism to social factors in ways that are inverse to the biological determinism of eugenicists.

>>2869255
> Marx thought the revolution would happen automatically without human agency
no

>>2868559
This explains why the DPRK is an abusive parent, but you're using that as an excuse for why they shouldn't stop being one. I don't care *why* they're that way, it's not a good thing that they are.

>>2869255
Marx Engels do not say that the communist revolution is spontaneous. You can see in the texts the need to have a revolutionary workers' party that is independent of the bourgeoisie.

I will leave you quotes then starting with 1885, looking back on their discoveries about class society and the founding of the Communist League, Engels wrote:

<Now, we were by no means of the opinion that the new scientific results should be confided in large tomes exclusively to the “learned” world. Quite the contrary. We were both of us already deeply involved in the political movement, and possessed a certain following in the educated world, especially of Western Germany, and abundant contact with the organized proletariat. It was our duty to provide a scientific foundation for our view, but it was equally important for us to win over the European and in the first place the German proletariat to our conviction. As soon as we had become clear in our own minds, we set about the task. We founded a German workers’ society in Brussels and took over the Deutsche Brüsseler Zeitung, which served us as an organ up to the February Revolution. We kept in touch with the revolutionary section of the English Chartists through Julian Harney, the editor of the central organ of the movement, The Northern Star, to which I was a contributor. We entered likewise into a sort of cartel with the Brussels democrats (Marx was vice-president of the Democratic Society) and with the French social-democrats of the Réforme, which I furnished with news of the English and German movements. In short, our connections with the radical and proletarian organizations and press organs were quite what one could wish.

<Frederick Engels, On The History of the Communist League, London
October 8, 1885

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1885hist.htm

Now let's see the communist manifesto with Marx:

<The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only: 1. In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality. 2. In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole.

<The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement.

<The immediate aim of the Communists is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat.

<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848), Chapter II: Proletarians and Communists

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm

Now let's see examples of how communists should organize themselves in an election in a bourgeois democracy:

<Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.

<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, 1850, "Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League"

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm

<The first great step of importance for every country newly entering into the movement is always the organisation of the workers as an independent political party, no matter how, so long as it is a distinct workers' party. And this step has been taken, far more rapidly than we had a right to hope, and that is the main thing. That the first programme of this party is still confused and highly deficient, that it has set up the banner of Henry George, these are inevitable evils but also only transitory ones. The masses must have time and opportunity to develop and they can only have the opportunity when they have their own movement–no matter in what form so long as it is only their own movement–in which they are driven further by their own mistakes and learn wisdom by hurting themselves.

<Frederick Engels, “Letters: Marx-Engels Correspondence 1886”, Engels to Friedrich Adolph Sorge In Hoboken

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1886/letters/86_11_29.htm

<Complete abstention from political action is impossible. The abstentionist press participates in politics every day. It is only a question of how one does it, and of what politics one engages in. For the rest, to us abstention is impossible. The working-class party functions as a political party in most countries by now, and it is not for us to ruin it by preaching abstention. Living experience, the political oppression of the existing governments compels the workers to occupy themselves with politics whether they like it or not, be it for political or for social goals. To preach abstention to them is to throw them into the embrace of bourgeois politics. The morning after the Paris Commune, which has made proletarian political action an order of the day, abstention is entirely out of the question.

<We want the abolition of classes. What is the means of achieving it? The only means is political domination of the proletariat. For all this, now that it is acknowledged by one and all, we are told not to meddle with politics. The abstentionists say they are revolutionaries, even revolutionaries par excellence. Yet revolution is a supreme political act and those who want revolution must also want the means of achieving it, that is, political action, which prepares the ground for revolution and provides the workers with the revolutionary training without which they are sure to become the dupes of the Favres and Pyats the morning after the battle. However, our politics must be working-class politics. The workers' party must never be the tagtail of any bourgeois party; it must be independent and have its goal and its own policy.

<The political freedoms, the right of assembly and association, and the freedom of the press — those are our weapons. Are we to sit back and abstain while somebody tries to rob us of them? It is said that a political act on our part implies that we accept the exiting state of affairs. On the contrary, so long as this state of affairs offers us the means of protesting against it, our use of these means does not signify that we recognise the prevailing order.

<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, "Apropos Of Working-Class Political Action".

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/09/21.htm

>Therefore, those were progressive wars, and during such wars, all honest, revolutionary democrats, and also all Socialists, always sympathised with the success of that country (i.e., with that bourgeoisie), which had helped to overthrow, or sap, the most dangerous foundation of feudalism, absolutism and the oppression of other nations. For example, the revolutionary wars waged by France contained an element of plunder and conquest of alien territory by the French, but this does not in the least alter the fundamental historical significance of these wars, which destroyed and shattered feudalism and absolutism in the whole of old, serf-ridden Europe. In the Franco-Prussian War, Germany plundered France, but this does not alter the fundamental historical significance of this war, which liberated tens of millions of German people from feudal disintegration and from the oppression of two despots, the Russian tsar and Napoleon III.
Lenin and all the other socialists supported Prussia in the Franco-Prussia war

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/s-w/ch01.htm

>>2869283
Doesn't this establish Damen as less wrong in comparison to Bordiga?

>>2869536 (me)
<In reference to Bordiga's dogmatic anti-democracy in general, "organic centralism", etc.

>>2868054
Your response is callous, cruel, unserious, mocking, snobbish, reactionary. Anon listed the crimes of America agaisnt the DPRK, the total Gaza-fication of the entire Northern half of Korea. Your reaction to this was to home in on two words "material analys" put "muh" in front of it, and ignore the rest. You are not a serious person and you should not be taken seriously. You are a goblin. A troll.
>>2869281
>Abusive parent
the abusive parent of the world is the united states who gave every single city in North Korea the Gaza treatment and then starved them with sanctions. Crimes you won't even repeat or quote no matter how long this conversation goes on. You don't even want that greentexted in your reply because you want the conversation to move on from it so you can focus on the "Crimes" of a sanctioned bombed and country against itself. What's next? Are you going to complain about how Gaza is bad at governing itself as it is being bombed and starved by Israelis?
>I don't care *why* they're that way,
That reveals everything. You don't care WHY they're that way because it you want the crimes of the USA to be the responsibility of the USA's victims. North Koreans suffer not because of sanctions, not because they were bombed to smithereens, but because Kim Jong Un is a heckin "monarch" or some shit. If someone points out the real reasons North Korea is that way, you mockingly call it an "excuse" and greentextmock "MUH MATERIAL ANALYSIS" like a braindead 4klanner

>>2869888
Gaza's primary problem is being slowly killed off by Israel. If Israel ever ceased to be, I'm not going to keep excusing Hamas being the way it is because of the history - that's simply a convenient excuse to never improve the governance of Gaza. You're basically saying "At least it's not Israel" - I thought we had a higher bar than that. You are literally doing the same with North Korea - you're saying the US carpet bombed the place therefore it's ok for the Kim Dynasty to exist. I'm saying, no it's not - do you want shit to improve in North Korea or not? Because if so, you can't keep insisting it has to remain as it is because the US razed it back in the 50s, you're clinging to an eternal excuse for resisting change.

Orthodox MLs are like people who can't catch the most beautiful butterfly with their net so they settle for an ugly moth. Leftcoms ignore the butterfly because it's too fast and evasive and they kill the moth and sit around moping afterwards.

>>2870131
this really made me think