For those sick of Zigger Putlerites, Chigger Dengoids, Irauyghur Islamists, DPRK ethno-national-monarchoids, and other right wing multipolaroid schizos pretending MUH ACK-SIS OF RESISTANCE and MUH AMERISRAELI MUTTREICH has anything to do with class struggle.
ITT we laugh at classcuck jewish niggers who pretend:
<the end of America = the end of Capitalism
<Judaism/Zionism is a bigger enemy than Capitalism
<islamists are real resistance to capitalism
<dengoids are real resistance to capitalism
<monarcho-nazism in DPRK is real resistance to capitalism
<muh sahel coalition gang raping gay men is real resistance to capitalism
etc. etc. etc.
You never have built any positive alternative nor will you ever because you only want to critique and observe, never change the world, you’re inferior to the bourgeois and the Chinese NEPmen.
>>2853405>positive alternativeMUH AFFORDABILITY
MUH HECKIN LIFTIN PEOPLE OUT OF POVERINO
just makes capitalism go on longer. things must get worse so that faggots like me will finally be forced to do something
>>2853413You haven’t done anything since Mattick (pbuh) declared Marxism the last refuge of the bourgeois and for “revolutionary passivity“
whats the final solution to the JNQ?
I'm not objecting to this thread but unironically why do you use slurs? More so knowing you're brown… is it to earn whitey points?
based thread
>>2853414>>2853405adventurism lmao
>>2853469Not even denying it lol
>>2853444>I'm not objecting to this thread buteverything before "but" is bullshit
>but PWEASE DONT USE HECKIN SLURSpic is u
>>2853536kys chuddie faggot I'll crush your brown skull with my biceps alone
Fuck racism
Lasalle and August Willich won, Marx and Engels lost, its really that simple
>>2853539>Lasalle and August Willichwasn't Lasalle to Marx's "right" and Willich to Marx's "left" ?
>>2853404are you trying to say Vijay Prashad is a Modi supporter? Weirdo
>>2853401It boils down to whether you support the general strike or are against it. Islamists, Dengoids and so on are against the general strike.
>>2853555I am islamo-dengoid and I say general strike NOW
>>2853401We are the Islamo-DengGODS, and this is how we move.
can't stop us. we are the subversive element subverting…. white western civilization… why? Because we're third-worldists. And we're resentful. because I am very swarthy. and brown.
>>2853575You're a white american that metaphysically supports a ruling class on the other half of the world which kills brown workers while shaking hands with your own white ruling class
>>2853577>>2853579i say this and i look like this
>>2853401>DPRK ethno-nationalthey abandoned ethno-nationalism when they abandoned the goal of reunification in 2024 doe. now they are just state-nationalists
Thank god there's finally a containment thread for these retards again, please stay here and keep circle jerking about how much you love and devote your life to Israel. If it were up to me your reactionary ass would get banned on sight. But self segregation is a good start I suppose
Have leftcoms accomplished anything other than whining about their betters?
Like, it’s been nearly a century since Bordiga got kicked out by the PCdI and the typical leftcom has nothing to show for it besides wordcel-ling about “capitalism”, which atp is nothing more than a spook for failed normies to rail against.
>>2853405>you're inferior because you're a useless eater unlike the entrepreneursThank you Ayn Rand, very cool!
>>2853629Bruh this meme would have been at least slightly plausible in 1975, not after the USSR self abolished themselves rather than even slightly move towards abolishing capitalist relations and supporting actual communists worldwide
>>2853634>LARPing as denier because it's less embarassing than being a falsifierWhat level of virginity is this?
>>2853423woah that's a rare gondola
>>2853646What level of ideology are you on?
>>2853641As Orwell said:
>Some are more equal than others >>2853646>Unironically using terms like falsifier and denier like you're some religious zealot, while you're really just some retard shit posting and seething about people not supporting the Epstein Empire enough Lmfao talk about embarrassing
>>2853401>orangetext>”etc. etc. etc.”Imagine losing the argument in so many arenas and thinking that you can avoid reconciliation that with one cover-all circlejerk thread.
>>2853655Reconciling that*
>>2853655If it means these retards stop sliding every fucking thread I'm fine with them corralling themselves in here.
>>2853550fuck it, one struggle
>>2853643just replace Moscow with Beijing and it is just as apt as ever. but also Moscow struggles against the Eternal Yankee
Communism is when I get all my opinions from influencers
>inb4 HAHAHAHA MY CYBERIZED TIKTOK BRAIN IS DA FUTURE UNC
You are no different from a cable news boomer
>>2853698>noooo stop liking my favorite indie band you’re not even a real oneThis is you with politics
>>2853694hohol bandeirite apologia
>>2853709Russophobes definitely put the same kind dehumanising intent behind “Vatnik” as all racial slurs. It’s clear they get huge enjoyment out of Russians having effectively an “N word” that is uncontroversial, it’s the racist’s dream to be able to use slurs and have that raise not a single eyebrow.
what I find the most funny about "anti-campists" is how they reveal themselves to be the actual campists. after all, when was the last time any of you saw an "anti-campist" protest against their own camp's militarism? when have ever Western "anti-campists" protested against NATO expansion? for its own camp's military defeat in Ukraine, in Palestine or in Iran? never, that's when. which of the two are vilified by bourgeois media? it certainly isn't the "anti-campists", because they are no threat to NATO. "anti-campism" is merely the tacit acceptance of the supremacy of one's own camp, of the NATO camp
>>2853712This insult was created by Russians and is used by Russians against other Russians. There is absolutely no racist connotation here. Meanwhile, the vatniks are true Nazis/racists and blame one nation - Ukrainians - for their misfortunes.
Literally above you there is a post calling me a hohol (even though I am Russian)
>>2853732So you therefore know that when you say “created by Russians” you know that’s some Uncle Tom shit used to alienate themselves from the rest of the Russian population.
More over the etymology of the word is an irrelevance when eventually Vatnik is adopted by Russophobes in the west and applied to
all Russians as a generalised group, including the kind of people who invented the term.
>I got called a HoholBecause you essentially called him a Vatnik for implying “neither Moscow nor Washington” just means ‘Washington’
>>2853745A “Russian” who hates his own motherland and feels nothing but contempt for his own people ceases to be a Russian. Might as well go fight for Azov like your leftist buddies if you hate Russians so much you think their dehumanization in the face of an attempted genocidal is acceptable
>>2853736Between washington and moscow i choose moscow, between moscow and communism i choose communism, if you have contempt for the people who would chosen moscow over washington, despite latter being materialistically progressive while former having its progressive force in the wheel of history depleted, and now in a hegemonic position turned as a force of evil, you commit a grave mistake.
No wonder i called you a bandeirite apologist, ukraine at this state has no chance of proletarian revolution until NATO is driven out as also the bandeirite apparatus and its collaborators
>>2853745>Racism is good when it's against a nation I hateWhere was that said?
>>2853754He bought into Austro-Polish propaganda about Hoholistani “nationhood”. Any attempt at denazification is actually racism against the Aryans of the Ukraine you see!
Blatant racism itt
>ziggers are crying about muh heccin racism again
why are they such snowflakes?
>>2853747>motherland>people>ceases to be REAL aryanHoly hitler hold me
>>2853634>Have leftcoms accomplished anything other than whining>>2853730>when was the last time any of you saw an "anti-campist" protest against their own camp's militarism?<Meanwhile, their western strategy: >>2853403Popular Frontism; capitulating and collaborating with the big bourgeoisie for
a century (or more!) instead of setting the stage for proletarian revolution. Let's review.
…What "Moscow"?
…Eastern bloc??
…Hainan "Free Trade Port" inaugurated
in the 2020s??
…Nepal's (a bordering country!) MLs being left out to dry? To be overthrown like nothing?
…Private banks in Cuba, June, 2026? While the CPC's too busy circle-jerking with the international bourgeoisie in both the OECD and BRICS.
…Your thought leaders advocating yankees Voting Blue, soyfacing about Mamdani?
…Is BRICS+ UAE and Egypt about to lead the charge in west Asia?
…Is Indonesia gonna do something about those anti-communist laws?
Or are you people just blatantly full of shit?For the leftcoms: what do you think the odds% are of these guys being:
· Paid 'BRICS Internet Defense Force' agents, or BRIDF / BIDF
· addicted to 'political' day trading / gambling with a smidge of brain damage
?
>>2853747>A “Russian” who hates his own motherland and feels nothing but contempt for his own people ceases to be a Russian. Might as well go fight for Azovbut enough about cucktin
>>2853888
Another garbage zionist post
I'm a leftcom now. What should I do? What org should I join, what is our program, what should we do in the world that actually exists here and now in 2026?
>/Anti-Campism/ ACKsis of "Resistance" Edition
second-campists are equally, if not more, useless than leftcoms. but reading chudslop like this makes me wonder
>>2853906nothing, the revolution will happen spontaneously
TRVST THE PLQN >>2853857trvst the plan, anon
>>2853694vatnik is an anti-worker meme from 4pol
>>2853913Awesome, I love being a leftcom
>>2853906Join your nearest class-union, that being a labor union that doesn't have clauses forbidding strikes.
Communists understand that the Class-Party needs to struggle for leadership within it, therefore you need Party organization.
>what is our programThe program:
https://www.international-communist-party.org/BasicTexts/English/51PrDict.htm >>2853913Dropped your flag anarchoid:
>>2853982
>muh action for the sake of action
you are fascist monkey
>>2853920
how do you expect to not get called zionist if you call people paliuyghurs doe
>>2853982MLs haven't done anything but red capitalism
>>2853986How do you expect not to get called one when you tried to derail this thread about the zionist pedo non-country of Pissrael first?
>>2853982
>Ugly-cries
Pathetic. With the rise of proletarian revolutionary militancy, strikes, little bosses like you will be tarred and feathered for morale.
Jungle adventures are closed
Cross-class alliances are closed
The October road, the historic road, is our future.
If that makes you piss your pants a little bit that's YOUR problem.
You still have some time to change until the real movement runs you over.
>>2854017Why did you use the term "pali n%gger"?
does "pannekoek" actually, unironically mean just "pancake"?
what kind of name is that?
>>2853747>no actual leftist can be RussianThank you for admitting Russia is a fascist shithole.
>>2854052Yes, he was Dutch
>>2854055are all dutch people named after food like dragon ball characters?
>>2853982
>China: backs Israel
>Leftcoms: don't back Israel
MLs will call this praxis
>>2854019Cope, you’ll never be a Bolshevik
>>2853985No u :^)
>>2854017>Muh red capitalism, only we are pureStill more than whatever leftcoms ever did, who are at this point nothing more than good-for-nothing ideologues who can’t even bring 1% of the global population under their rule.
>>2854029MLs created the only communist superpower in history that was capable of exporting its government system outside its borders.
What have leftcoms ever done to merit the entire left to listen to them on strategy besides complaining on their fat asses?
>>2854071Outlasting the USSR?
>>2854067>China: develops apartheid infrastructure, is #1 trade partner with countless joint duel use tech programs >leftcoms: non of thatErgo Chinese praxis > leftcom armchairs o algo
>>2854054Fascism IS leftist, the left wing of capital to be precise. Communism is not and never has been “left”
>>2854076You pay taxes to Israel's #1 trade partner while defending Israel's #2 trade partner 24/7 on a Kazakh pumpkin trading forum.
I do neither. You lose, I win, suck a dick, bye bye
>>2854071>Still more than whatever leftcoms ever didsure if you support state capitalism and social democracy but we're Communists here. Liberalism has also done more but you're not about to start championing that are you?
>>2854071>MLs created the only communist superpowerstate capitalist super power*
>>2854084you are the apophatic theologians of communism. you can only say what communism is not.
>>2854088and what it is not is Marxist Leninism
>>2854082>using israel as a bludgeon in this conversationand why israel bad? because they genocide palestinians. but palestinians are… a nation… I thought you didn't care about nations… only class….
>>2854090Israel is bad because it is a nation state. Try working that empty campist head of yours
>>2854071>>2854029 (You)
>MLs created the only communist superpower in history that was capable of exporting its government system outside its borders.Yeah and liberals still defeated it too lol.
Just give up marxist leninism is inferior to liberalism
>exporting its government system outside its borders
The USSR literally armed every government in MENA that was massacring its communists
>>2854097Multipolarism in a nutshell
>>2854092ok so why is your argument "china bad cuz trade with israel" and not simply "china bad because it's a nation state"
you know the second one will be taken less seriously, so you resort to the first, then when it's revealed you don't actually really care about palestinians, you fall back on the second even knowing it's absurd
>>2854029
Marxist-Leninism IS liberalism. Looks how it industrialised the Russian Empire and created small capitalists hungry for more power.
>>2854102Because exposing leftard zionism projection is fun
>>2854105Damn liberalism literally always wins.
I care enough about Palestinians that it in no small part transitioned me from a leftard to a communist ("ultra")
>>2854118Qatar and Turkey supported Palestine x93284692920274 times more than token CPC speech at the UN
I should become an Islamist then
>>2854093Would the same apply to leftcommunism too? Will you actually admit that leftcoms are inferior to liberals now?
>>2854136no because Left Communists are not operating on the idea that doing random shit equates the success of a theory
>>2854122>I should become an Islamist thenThats actually pretty commong among ml's
>>2854138>not operating on the ideaBecause leftcoms literally have zero ideas to operate on besides “dragging down leftists to their circlejerk of masturbatory pseudo-intellectualism”.
That’s why all leftcoms are either trolls or pseuds as shown ITT.
That they’re ideologues is made all the more clear when they can’t cite any successful example of a society operating under their ideas, unlike Maoists, castroists and MLs.
Hell, even pedophiles have accomplished more than leftcoms and the former are always scapegoated by all sides because of evangelical retardation.
>>2854165>Maoists, castroists and MLs. >SuccesfullIn being shitholes perhaps.
>>2854165>Because leftcoms literally have zero ideas to operate on besides “dragging down leftists to their circlejerk of masturbatory pseudo-intellectualism”.this is just you being mad sorry kid but weren't not out here to create a popular front we're reading theory and waiting for history to catch up.
Revolution will come about when the material conditiions are correct for revolution not when your shitty ad campaign reaches enough people
>can’t cite any successful example of a society operating under their ideas, unlike Maoists, castroists and MLs.we're Communists we're not interest in the state capitalist these ghouls set up
>>2854166You say that, and yet can’t cite any society that succeeded by applying leftcom theories into practice. Almost as if leftcoms are bigger losers than the MLs they love to hate on. 🤔
>>2854171No ones ever tried. Theyve only tried applying marxist-leninism and always failed.
>>2854171We're not trying to put Leftcom theories into practice though.
Considering MLs have a 100% fail rate they are infinately bigger losers then any left com
>Zigger Putlerites, Chigger Dengoids
Leftcom mask off moment
>>2854203glad it makes you seethe liberal
>>2854218>bwwaaaah stop making fun of my wholesome capitalist heads of state and their dickriders bbwaaah!!you have to go back to r/SocialDemocracy
>>2854215Israel is a third world country and Israel has Russians who are ethnically proles
>>2854268
China, DPRK, Cuba,
>>2854272
There is nothing about market liberal practices that is counter to Marxist Leninist theory
Having a head of state does not make a country a monarchy
>>2854276
Until you’ve done a revolution and won a war, liberalism > communism, right now you’re just another punk critiquing power but afraid of being liable for any actual death or destruction on your hands
It’s literally no one’s fault outside your own that “liberals” mog you and move history while you wank to books
>>2854285
Mao wrote better poetry than any of your thousand page pretentious screeds about the economy
You don’t exist
>>2854290
Call me when you have a star trek replicator oh wait you never even took engineering
>>2854276
>Hereditary rule over a state is a monarchy
you're just redefining monarchy at this point and calling things you don't like liberalism.
Genoa and Venice weren’t TRVE republics
>>2854230i am elated you will never put your ideas into practice. liberalism will last forever!
>>2853752Putin is materialistically progressive dudes
PUTIN, not the USSR, Putin.
Ukraine Delenda Est because Putin is the Vanguard of the worker's century
>>2854020because it's funny, and because it triggers you. That's reason enough. Now call HR.
Let’s be real, socialism is dead as a movement and it lead to the status quo anyway whether you’re left right or center. Clearly there needs to be an alternative.
>>2854425The alternative is we can choose to imprison or execute whoever. We can vote them off the island. But even if we let them live we can surely deprive them of all their possessions.
>All Property, indeed, except the Savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it. >>2853924This meme was created before /pol/ even existed. Also, the stereotypical vatnik is a talentless drunkard, so I don't see how this meme can be anti-worker.
>>2854443
Only one of the words is filtered because of some obvious conclusions about the mods.
>>2854442
>literally just racism as the counterpoint
>ending english word with "-aru"
that's japanese, dipshit. Chinese doesn't do that.
>>2854215Leftcom chads always are correct.
Don't forget the greatest hits like
<Supporting oligarch 'traditionalist' reactionaries who buried the USSR bombing and invading Ukraine is justified because the Ukronazi regime are antisemitic anticommunists>Supporting Burger-Zionist Reich bombing Iran and Gaza because they're 'antisemitic' anticommunists is not justified because Good vs Evil Proletarian vs Bourgeois Nations The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of race wars Clash of Civilizations >>2853405Israel also builds productive forces. Damn I guess I'm #Zionista now
good god they even have socialist and communist parties in the Knesset and social welfare!why can't you be normal about not supporting the authoritarian russian regime that actively makes the lives of its people more miserable and wants to expand to ukraine in an imperialistic war of conquest while also recognizing that the genocidal colonial state of israel has no right to exist, why do you have to be weird and insane and racist about this
>>2856289Because in the real world Russia has its faults but isn't nearly as bad as you libtards make it out to be.
>>2856301i'm literally russian
>>2856308>>2856289Зато в России можно купить эстрадиол без рецепта, если заказать в атеккку онлайн. Пиндосы же покупают себе гормоны из индийских подвалов
>>2856327я из индийских подвалов заказываю потому что дешевле
прогинова щас дорогая пиздец, you're a porky если у тебя денег на неё хватает
>>2856329Дляженс фемо: просто существует
>zigger
>chigger
Why are NAFOtards too afraid to actually say the n-word?
>>2856503I think when they do this they reveal that they hate black people so much that
_igger is their frame of reference for hating everyone else
>>2856289Because none of this is done in good faith and is pure contrarian trolling.
>>2856485это всё ещё в миллионы раз дороже и муторнее, чем покупать из индии инъекционный эстрадиол один раз в год
…и лучше уж фемостон, чем расеянский дженерик, который буквально ничем не отличается от индийских подвалов
>>2856555
Saying “zigger” is peak predditor behavior, bud.
>>2856660>расеянский дженерик, который буквально ничем не отличается от индийских подваловНу Россия хотя-бы не N1 по сранью на улицах и изнасилованиям
>>2856673Cope harder, ziggersau
>>2853551Jeet is rightoid lingo for Indians. I know "anti campists" barely disguise their rightoid ideology but this is ridiculous
>>2856680yeah the racism part was obvious, more baffling is the accusation being made towards Vijay Prashad, who wrote Washington Bullets. But the guy who made that post probably didn't even think that hard
>>2856675Bing bing wahoo, have an updoot!
>>2856674что то, что то фашистская помойка
>>2856742
we should focus on all the bourghisie not just one ethnic/religious element.
>>2856742>Jewish Supremacy is the greatest threat to the proletariat>>2856753>we should focus on all the bourghisie not just one ethnic/religious element.this is the part where he calls you shlomo shekelstein for saying this, gets banned for idpol, and then comes back on a new IP and cries that the mods are all jews who censor anti-zionism because they won't let him do idpol
>>2854281
>More importantly, how come such blatant anti-communist propaganda isn't banned?
anti-communist website, simple as
>>2856503In old leftypol we said it but I'm still getting the hang of the new site and on the new dialect uiygher is the preferred parlance.
Yeah I don't miss having Nagger around either, it's kind of just lazy vulgarity and shock for the sake of shock (even at the cost of the actual Living Naggers some of whom might actually come here at some point, as a reminder).
But obviously cleaning up the speach to the point that we can't insult each other or communicate emotion and disagreement anymore would be bad so I think it's a decent compromise that this isn't the place for /pol/rated spergouts (althought they happen in other ways), while still you get to speak your mind broadly without mincing words.
>>2854281
the worst and most annoying "representatives" (often false flagging trolls) of every single left tendency on this site make an annoying habit of crying for more more more censorship of all the other tendencies, while alleging that mods are in on a conspiracy to do the opposite… it's really bizarre behavior… alleging a conspiracy, and begging the people supposedly at the head of it to do the opposite… reads like trolling.
>>2857591
you forgot to read
>>2856684>ZERO counter>JUST radlib language policing Hate to be the bearer of bad news but I was the poster of
>>2853403 ITT as a bump and, as indicated by not having a flag while the other poster had one, we are not the same person.
Now address the idiotic liberal bullshit that Prashad is saying in that complete clip (i.e. no cuts).
Go on.
>>2857628anon nobody really cares about your video, it was a response to this:
>>2853404vijay prashad is not a modi supporter, and it's not "radlib" to point that out.
>>2857635>nobody really cares about your videoNone of you care because you are radlibs. You have nothing to do with Marxism and require opposition at every level, every stage.
>>2856503Because those are specific variants for different people. We're not talking about blacks.
>>2857640vijay prashad isn't a modi suporter, stop changing the subject
>>2857661you chose to spell it like that for a reason, you ain't slick boy
>>2856503you are obsessed!
>>2857661You have a racist conception of Black people, namely of their “intrinsic” and “extrinisic,” qualities and characteristics, thus claiming Russians are just like them in every conceivable way. Your preddit “neologism” is rooted in racism. No amount of moving the goal posts can change that. You hate Black people and should kill yourself.
>>2853732Vatnik was created by a Ukrainian and post-2014 used almost exclusively by Ukies and other Butthurt Belters.
>>2856503These people have zero creativity. Russian liberalism in and of itself is a kind of suicidal nihilism that doesn't promote healthy life or appreciation of beauty. Both Ukrainian nationalism and the post-2022 western propaganda campaign are ultimately extensions of Russian liberalism that went through two slightly different paths.
That, and they are racist. But you can be racist and creative at the same time instead of being trash gremlins obsessed with gore and repeating Russian slurs at a rate of 20 a minute.
>>2858079NTA that baselessly claimed he's a modi supporter. Address anything Prashad said in the vid you classcucked lib.
>>2858450> Address anything Prashad said in the vid why should i? i made no claims about it.
>NTA that baselessly claimed he's a modi supporter. OK so you have no place in the conversation. concession accepted.
>you classcucked lib.that's you actually
>>2854272
Wrong. The DPRK was a socialist state until recently, when they approved the new constitution
>>2859302Elaborate. Constitution of which year? What in particular changed? I hear people make the opposite argument sometimes, that with recent constituional changes made them on the path again due to re-including phrases like "communism".
I start to doubt DPRK moreso due to their subordination to United Russia.
>>2859473>Elaborate. Constitution of which year? What in particular changed?you think he knows? lol
>>2859254they won't give you any. ever. stop asking.
>>2859266That guy fled to Ukraine. Also the infographic doesn't mention Leftypol and similar communities, only thr mainstream social media and /pol/.
>>2859858yeah 4chan gets credit for a lot of stuff that didn't actually come from there. 4chan is sort of the funnel between schizo and normie so that normies think everything came from there.
>>2854430>russian imperial flagwell no shit that guy is retarded
international proletariat status?
>>2859302>>2859473>>2859705Here's the full thing:
https://www.nkleadershipwatch.org/dprk-constitution-2026/ literally the first line in preamble
>The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is a socialist state centered on the masses of the people, which represents the interests of the Korean people and fights for the cause of socialism. so yeah they still officially say they are socialist. this can be seen from their current state media reports and articles as well.
there was some confusion about this recently. basically, before south korea leaked this constitution (which for some inexplicable reason the north still hasn't officially published where outsiders can see it), it was reported that the title was changed from "Socialist Constitution of the DPRK" to just "Constitution of the DPRK" so some people took this as an indication that the word socialism was removed throughout the document.
>>2867337wow. so the allegation made above was based on some nonsense from south korea and not actual evidence. nice.
>>2859254still waiting on this one
>>2856289>authoritarian russian regime that actively makes the lives of its people more miserable>>2856301<in the real world Russia has its faults but isn't nearly as bad as you libtards make it out to be.>>2856308>i'm literally russianlaffo
IMO one possibility that multipolarists might not factor is that a mulitpolar system might make it harder to have class conflict, because the class conflict that it will have will tend to produce militaristic states equipped for survival and right-nationalist politics that make it difficult for the left to exist. Now, that might happen anyways.
>>2853401><monarcho-nazism in DPRK words have meaning btw
>>2867507honestly OP is so disgusting it reads like a false flag. and I say this as a so called "campist"
>>2867337It really doesn't matter what they *claim* they are, the facts on the ground make them a monarchy.
>>2853401>the end of America = the end of CapitalismThe right wing in Latin America and Southeast Asia would lose all political relevance, and most of those countries would become left-wing one-party states—or at least have left-wing majorities—if the United States were to collapse and fragment. These countries would pull off their own Chinese-style economic miracles, and from there on out, it would be an unstoppable snowball effect. Don’t pretend that the Ziggers are relevant or that the European Union is anything more than a puppet regime of the U.S. The only capitalist regimes that would remain in the end would be small, irrelevant, hermit states that would be nothing more than glorified tax havens and desperate attempts by wealthy “lolbertarians” to create their anarcho-capitalist dystopias—and as we already know from Ayn Rand’s writings, libertarians view the world as their personal Minecraft server, so those regimes wouldn’t take long to collapse anyway.
>>2867773>juchoidwhat does this even mean
DPRK is the way it is because america cut the korean peninsula in half, put syngman rhee in power, bombed every city in the north to ashes, destroyed rail, power, sanitation, hospitals, schools, then forced them to rebuild everything while under heavy sanctions. all criticism of juche should be rooted in material analysis of what actually happened to north korea. if america were subjected to the same treatment it would come up with an ideology so repulsive it would make juche look like the purest communism.
>>2868008>muh material analysisThis is nothing but an excuse for why North Korea is a de facto absolute monarchy. Endlessly going on about why this is the case is simply an attempt to bypass any suggestion they should change their ways.
>>2867893>The right wing in Latin America and Southeast Asia would lose all political relevanceNo they wouldn't lmao
>>2867886>no citationalways an indicator of a bad actor.
the only source citing this from Stalin is Milovan Djilas'a memoirs and he was a titoite and an anti communist.
>>2868054if someone much stronger and bigger than you held you down and pummeled you until you had severe permanent brain damage, it would be evident that your decisions from then on would be affected by that event.
>>2868851Meh. Politics will always make strange bedfellows. On the one hand it's very easy to have a laugh at multipolarism when it brings together people like this, but at the same time, Communism is supposed to (but often fails to) unite proletarians from the 3rd world with proletarians from the 1st world, racist proletarians with anti-racist proletarians, LGBTphobic proletarians with LGBT proletarians, religious proletarians with nonreligious proletarians, and so on. People who pursue some common interest that is important to them will often find themselves clashing on secondary and tertiary issues. All alliances are freely formed and temporary.
>>2869040My issue is when when people assemble these incoherent pantheons that have nothing to do anymore with the original struggle. So you end up with Kim Il Sung, Pol Pot, Stalin, Saddam, Gaddafi, Tito, Soleimani, Assad (senior included) , the Taliban and literal CIA and French intelligence backed porky compradors (See Madagascar last year) all venerated as "anti-imperialist" saints.
I don't have an issue with trying to bring movements together regardless of their "traditional" or "problematic" opinions. Except there is no movement here, instead there's people vicariously living through tangentially related far away events and sewing them into a grand narrative inside their heads.
It's what annoys me about all this multipolar nonsense; you have people pretending they're taking a principled stance (which really matters!) in line with the righteous side they've chosen to align with in a world spanning Manichean struggle between Good and Evil. But it's all incoherent ahistorical nonsense.
>>2869127you write in a whiny tone, fix that
>>2869152No. I'm annoyed. And this is the one thread where we can dunk on all the identitarian manichean geopol brained board schizos and their "anti-imperialist" ᴉuᴉlossnW pilled "bourgeois vs proletarian nations" bullshit.
>>2869157I haven't read the thread, but have you done the right thing and disclosed to this thread that you're currently in Ukraine and have fucked multiple people there despite it being a warzone?
Because I think that fact is more important than word salads.
>>2869127I member when Russia crushed Kazakhstan strikes and protected investments which were overwhelmingly western. Despite multipolarism it's nice to see the nations of the world unite against the workers.
>>2869184>Clutching pearls over hookupsChamp please touch some grass
>>2853405The thing with leftcoms is that they want to leave it up all to fate. In a sense, their historical determinism puts them closer to Marx than to Lenin, as Lenin ascribes some agency to humanity in the form of advocating the formation of a vanguard party to bring forth the revolution, as opposed to Marx who thought the revolution would magically appear out of nowhere cause Muh history mode of production n shieet.
Then again, if you asked leftcoms what they would have done differently if they were general party secretary in 1933 in place of Stalin, they (in my experience) often just vague post and tell you there’s nothing you can do and just let it go until the material conditions are such that a revolution is inevitable. How that will come about, and the possibility of a successful counter-revolution are never mentioned by leftcoms.
It’s funny how many leftcoms whine about Stalin being too authoritarian, considering how Bordiga was against democracy as a concept so he would be more authoritarian than Stalin ever was even in anti-communist propaganda.
With that said, in line with this thread: Supporting the partisans and the USSR against the Axis powers in WW2 is historically regressive and campist, ergo it’s bad.
>>2869237>as opposed to Marx who thought the revolution would magically appear out of nowhere cause Muh history mode of production n shieet.Really?
"Workers of the world stay in your armchairs! You have everything to lose!" - Marx
Did he say this?
>>2869233By all means, do explain why you have called yourself thrillpill and why that's not a conflict of interest in your bleeding heart about CIA backed regimes.
>>2869240That’s a summary of his thoughts, considering how Marx thought the revolution would happen automatically without human agency, considering how orthodox Marxists ascribe determinism to social factors in ways that are inverse to the biological determinism of eugenicists.
>>2869255> Marx thought the revolution would happen automatically without human agencyno
>>2868559This explains why the DPRK is an abusive parent, but you're using that as an excuse for why they shouldn't stop being one. I don't care *why* they're that way, it's not a good thing that they are.
>>2869255Marx Engels do not say that the communist revolution is spontaneous. You can see in the texts the need to have a revolutionary workers' party that is independent of the bourgeoisie.
I will leave you quotes then starting with 1885, looking back on their discoveries about class society and the founding of the Communist League, Engels wrote:
<Now, we were by no means of the opinion that the new scientific results should be confided in large tomes exclusively to the “learned” world. Quite the contrary. We were both of us already deeply involved in the political movement, and possessed a certain following in the educated world, especially of Western Germany, and abundant contact with the organized proletariat. It was our duty to provide a scientific foundation for our view, but it was equally important for us to win over the European and in the first place the German proletariat to our conviction. As soon as we had become clear in our own minds, we set about the task. We founded a German workers’ society in Brussels and took over the Deutsche Brüsseler Zeitung, which served us as an organ up to the February Revolution. We kept in touch with the revolutionary section of the English Chartists through Julian Harney, the editor of the central organ of the movement, The Northern Star, to which I was a contributor. We entered likewise into a sort of cartel with the Brussels democrats (Marx was vice-president of the Democratic Society) and with the French social-democrats of the Réforme, which I furnished with news of the English and German movements. In short, our connections with the radical and proletarian organizations and press organs were quite what one could wish.
<Frederick Engels, On The History of the Communist League, LondonOctober 8, 1885
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1885hist.htmNow let's see the communist manifesto with Marx:
<The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only: 1. In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality. 2. In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole.
<The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement.
<The immediate aim of the Communists is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848), Chapter II: Proletarians and Communistshttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htmNow let's see examples of how communists should organize themselves in an election in a bourgeois democracy:
<Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, 1850, "Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League"https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm
<The first great step of importance for every country newly entering into the movement is always the organisation of the workers as an independent political party, no matter how, so long as it is a distinct workers' party. And this step has been taken, far more rapidly than we had a right to hope, and that is the main thing. That the first programme of this party is still confused and highly deficient, that it has set up the banner of Henry George, these are inevitable evils but also only transitory ones. The masses must have time and opportunity to develop and they can only have the opportunity when they have their own movement–no matter in what form so long as it is only their own movement–in which they are driven further by their own mistakes and learn wisdom by hurting themselves.
<Frederick Engels, “Letters: Marx-Engels Correspondence 1886”, Engels to Friedrich Adolph Sorge In Hobokenhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1886/letters/86_11_29.htm
<Complete abstention from political action is impossible. The abstentionist press participates in politics every day. It is only a question of how one does it, and of what politics one engages in. For the rest, to us abstention is impossible. The working-class party functions as a political party in most countries by now, and it is not for us to ruin it by preaching abstention. Living experience, the political oppression of the existing governments compels the workers to occupy themselves with politics whether they like it or not, be it for political or for social goals. To preach abstention to them is to throw them into the embrace of bourgeois politics. The morning after the Paris Commune, which has made proletarian political action an order of the day, abstention is entirely out of the question.
<We want the abolition of classes. What is the means of achieving it? The only means is political domination of the proletariat. For all this, now that it is acknowledged by one and all, we are told not to meddle with politics. The abstentionists say they are revolutionaries, even revolutionaries par excellence. Yet revolution is a supreme political act and those who want revolution must also want the means of achieving it, that is, political action, which prepares the ground for revolution and provides the workers with the revolutionary training without which they are sure to become the dupes of the Favres and Pyats the morning after the battle. However, our politics must be working-class politics. The workers' party must never be the tagtail of any bourgeois party; it must be independent and have its goal and its own policy.
<The political freedoms, the right of assembly and association, and the freedom of the press — those are our weapons. Are we to sit back and abstain while somebody tries to rob us of them? It is said that a political act on our part implies that we accept the exiting state of affairs. On the contrary, so long as this state of affairs offers us the means of protesting against it, our use of these means does not signify that we recognise the prevailing order.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, "Apropos Of Working-Class Political Action".https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/09/21.htm >Therefore, those were progressive wars, and during such wars, all honest, revolutionary democrats, and also all Socialists, always sympathised with the success of that country (i.e., with that bourgeoisie), which had helped to overthrow, or sap, the most dangerous foundation of feudalism, absolutism and the oppression of other nations. For example, the revolutionary wars waged by France contained an element of plunder and conquest of alien territory by the French, but this does not in the least alter the fundamental historical significance of these wars, which destroyed and shattered feudalism and absolutism in the whole of old, serf-ridden Europe. In the Franco-Prussian War, Germany plundered France, but this does not alter the fundamental historical significance of this war, which liberated tens of millions of German people from feudal disintegration and from the oppression of two despots, the Russian tsar and Napoleon III.Lenin and all the other socialists supported Prussia in the Franco-Prussia war
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/s-w/ch01.htm >>2869283Doesn't this establish Damen as less wrong in comparison to Bordiga?
>>2869536 (me)
<In reference to Bordiga's dogmatic anti-democracy in general, "organic centralism", etc. >>2868054Your response is callous, cruel, unserious, mocking, snobbish, reactionary. Anon listed the crimes of America agaisnt the DPRK, the total Gaza-fication of the entire Northern half of Korea. Your reaction to this was to home in on two words "material analys" put "muh" in front of it, and ignore the rest. You are not a serious person and you should not be taken seriously. You are a goblin. A troll.
>>2869281>Abusive parentthe abusive parent of the world is the united states who gave every single city in North Korea the Gaza treatment and then starved them with sanctions. Crimes you won't even repeat or quote no matter how long this conversation goes on. You don't even want that greentexted in your reply because you want the conversation to move on from it so you can focus on the "Crimes" of a sanctioned bombed and country against itself. What's next? Are you going to complain about how Gaza is bad at governing itself as it is being bombed and starved by Israelis?
>I don't care *why* they're that way, That reveals everything. You don't care WHY they're that way because it you want the crimes of the USA to be the responsibility of the USA's victims. North Koreans suffer not because of sanctions, not because they were bombed to smithereens, but because Kim Jong Un is a heckin "monarch" or some shit. If someone points out the real reasons North Korea is that way, you mockingly call it an "excuse" and greentextmock "MUH MATERIAL ANALYSIS" like a braindead 4klanner
>>2869888Gaza's primary problem is being slowly killed off by Israel. If Israel ever ceased to be, I'm not going to keep excusing Hamas being the way it is because of the history - that's simply a convenient excuse to never improve the governance of Gaza. You're basically saying "At least it's not Israel" - I thought we had a higher bar than that. You are literally doing the same with North Korea - you're saying the US carpet bombed the place therefore it's ok for the Kim Dynasty to exist. I'm saying, no it's not - do you want shit to improve in North Korea or not? Because if so, you can't keep insisting it has to remain as it is because the US razed it back in the 50s, you're clinging to an eternal excuse for resisting change.
Orthodox MLs are like people who can't catch the most beautiful butterfly with their net so they settle for an ugly moth. Leftcoms ignore the butterfly because it's too fast and evasive and they kill the moth and sit around moping afterwards.
>>2870131this really made me think
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