So say a Marxist-Leninist economy has all of the stuff important to the state nationalized and operating under scientific planning, it tries to give the basic needs of life like employment and housing to everyone as possible, but there's additionally a private sector for commodity circulation because trying to micromanage every small business to the smallest detail is silly in general. The private sector is heavily regulated to prevent them from subverting the rest of society, and also taxed to help pay for the rest of society.
So what exactly is bad about this generally speaking? Especially on a neoliberal Earth where the international elite, outside of china, can flee and go anywhere and has no accountability? The strategy of dengist economics has produced the same results that people like Mao and Stalin wanted out of their countries like mass industrialization, electrification, and prosperity but at the same time holding their own societal elites accountable.
55 posts and 4 image replies omitted.>>2878155They have more a couple more electronic treats and maybe a few cities they can walk around. Why would anyone risk death or jail for that?
>>2878071Using western measures like "gdp" or literally the price of labour power as a measurement for your "socialist" economy. "Dengist" economics is capitalist economics with the same drawbacks and contradictions and then (unlike the soviets with the nep) not even being honest about it.
>no scroll
shit thread
>>2865198> So what are the flaws of dengist economics?There are none. The problem with liberalism in a third world country is that by opening yourself up to foreign investors you will lose your sovereignty and become an economic colony. Dengism avoided that and opened up only selected parts of the economy while keeping everything important under Chinese control. This allowed China to develop in an imperialist hostile hell planet without losing its sovereignty or key industries.
Right now virtually 100% of the world is the under Western American neoliberal techno fascist control grid. The Soviet union is gone. Maoist revolutions have failed. China is now the only thing keeping the world from being a complete liberal monoculture.
>>2909438
There is a significant difference between Russia and China. Russia is capitalist and China is communist. After the collapse of the USSR, Russia allowed itself to be colonized by foreign investors. It became a slave to Western corporations.
What ended any of this? Did the Russians suddenly become anti-imperialist, anti-liberal, and anti-Western? No. They were forced to de-Westernize to a limited extent by sanctions following their imperialist invasion of the Ukraine.
Opposition to the West was never a conscious choice by Russia, so I fail to see how they are an alternative. If the West just let them join NATO and take the Ukraine they would have continued down the liberal capitalist path they were on after the USSR fell. This is different from China which is ruled by a communist party, has always been ruled by a communist party, and didn't need sanctions to convince itself to maintain its independence from Western corporations and Western tyranny.
Leftychuds hate "dengism" because they were brainwashed by bordigafags that communism = not having any property. A lot of Leftychuds are closer to WEF and Palantir than Marx. The true convergence theory of lolberts and marxoids is that in the end each person will be Huey Long.
>>2909487China is the most technologically advanced communist society to ever exist so far and they are continuing to develop on the road to pure communism
>>2909563I haven’t read Marx
>>2909487It is
>>2865198Dengism seems revisionist though XI is reversing it a bit and China is still socialist THEYRE ore-capitalist markets
Not even the USSR was a fully planned economy
>>2909502imagine still being a dengoid after watching vietnam's goverment desecrating the remains of proletarian families for the orange king pedo of the united states kek no wonder you hate communists since you believe this is what communist praxis is
>>2909989Not a Dengist. I hate bordigafags because of idealism. Vietnam just has stockholm syndrome for some reason. They are not as redpilled as DPRK.
>>2865436>When did MLs/Dengism get conflated?When Dengism started to pay off.
> I'm old enough to remember when MLs hated China for siding with Amerika and helped destroy the USSR which actually had central planning. Parenti called China neoliberal, for example.In the 80s and 90s Dengism looked like a betrayal of Communism, because China was weaker than America. Now China is stronger than America and America is dying, so Dengism looks like a long term successful 4D chess move to steal manufacturing from the US empire. Naturally, whenever anything is successful, MLs claim that is what they believed in all along.
>>2910119>Now China is stronger than America and America is dying, so Dengism looks like a long term successful 4D chess move to steal manufacturing from the US empire. Naturally, whenever anything is successful, MLs claim that is what they believed in all along.My political evolution in one paragraph.
>>2909996>Not a Dengist.if you think china is socialist you are a dengoid bro, sorry
>>2909502No I hate dengism because it's just another continuation of capitalism and it's unsurprising that so many braindead, basement dwelling incel neets on this board swallow it hook line and sinker. Pathetic.
>>2911399China is socialist. It's similar to Yugoslavian socialism than Eastern Block socialism.
>>2911401What would not a continuation of capitalism look like?
>>2911399it's a hybrid system
just admit youre social demoCHADS and we can be friends dengbros
>>2911419Moneyless, classless, stateless society not plagued by bureaucracy and governors
>>2911440So how would you go about doing this?
>So what are the flaws of dengist economics?
if you don't have a massive unemployed population along with a shitload of exploitable resources that foreign investors want then you're just gonna collapse
>>2865198<So what exactly is bad about this generally speaking? Especially on a neoliberal Earth where the international elite, outside of china, can flee and go anywhere and has no accountability? The strategy of dengist economics has produced the same results that people like Mao and Stalin wanted out of their countries like mass industrialization, electrification, and prosperity but at the same time holding their own societal elites accountable.I guess in the long run its not sustainable because its a partial market economy and suffers the same flaws as capitalism. But it may be worth it in the short to medium run to have industrial capitalism on the most favorable circumstances to China rather than no limits colonial exploitation version
>>2865198The main thing is that it's a poor fit for a very large country such as China which ends up with large internal town-country contradictions.
>>2911457Confederation of armed worker councils lead by the party
>>2865436being a developmentalist with 0 standards makes it easier to soy face at 2,000,000 babies getting degrees from porky's university of commodity production than it'd be for a communist
>>2939344>Confederation of armed worker councilsBased
>lead by the party<not plagued by bureaucracy and governorsNGMI leftychud
>>2939425>uncritical support for the liberals that sold out the USSRWhy are nu-MLs such cucks? Even normie libs have less of a slave psychology than these freaks
>>2940900>slave psychologylog off
>>2910119>Naturally, whenever anything is successful, MLs claim that is what they believed in all along.you're starting to get it. that's what's meant by the innovative role of the party. many experiments were written off in the soviet union starting with lenin's times because that's just the material conditions for you. that's called dialectical materialism buddy. the correct line is what works best in the specific conditions the party finds itself in, by definition. the bolsheviks didn't come into power with knowledge of all their future policies, they were discovered through practice.
liberals will be mad because policy comes down from the platonic realm of the forms to them, all the good things just happen to be innate human rights given by god- i mean just be the consensus among good progressive folks, history doesn't exist chud, just be a Good Person (tm) okay????
>>2910119>When Dengism started to pay off. yes>>2910119
>In the 80s and 90s Dengism looked like a betrayal of Communism, because China was weaker than America. Now China is stronger than America and America is dying, so Dengism looks like a long term successful 4D chess move to steal manufacturing from the US empire. Naturally, whenever anything is successful, MLs claim that is what they believed in all along.yes. and currently, only the most state directed economies, whether you regard them as socialist or not, are capable of the long term planning and investment in unprofitable but strategically important endeavors necessary to expand the forces of production despite the falling rate of profit. america can't do it.
>It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, if it catches mice it's a good cat.
Its retarded
>>2865198there was this one german guy who dedicated his life to developing the most accurate description of dengism. in fact he developed a whole framework for historical and social analysis which can grossly be summarized as revolving around who owns the deng in a society. the book is just called deng. i recommend you read it.
>>2867053Yes, Marx celebrated the American revolution as progressive. We should celebrate China as progressive and then call for overturning it as soon as it is not.
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