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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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I fucking despise roaders. They have completely ossified mindsets and won't ever change their minds no matter how much I argue (and I argue constantly for the most minor points) while I will publicly criticise myself if I was found to have taken a wrong line. Like they just ignore any evidence I bring up about the fascist state of China. Roaders are set in their ways and won't ever change, they are ideological zombies and the only way to deal with them is to put a bullet in their head and eliminate an enemy to socialism.

Anti-revisionism thread

It's one thing to call China revisionist but to call it fascist is so mind bogglingly retarded that nothing else you say matters because only a moron could ever reach that conclusion.

>anti-revisionist
>upset people won't change their minds
Lol

>gore and CP spam
You know it doesn't reflect well on you when you do that, revisionist dog.

File: 1786054640877-2.png (106.37 KB, 1125x835, projection.png)

>They have completely ossified mindsets and won't ever change their minds

>>2885798
>>2885837
No it isn't projection, I openly apologise if I say something I later realise is wrong, and have made whole threads in the past self-critisizing. I am a namefag so you can even validate this. And you don't even know how I act IRL.

>>2885794
is there a right for anti-revisionist parties to be active in China?

>>2885845
What makes you feel entitled to talk shit without getting hit?

If I'm a premier and see any gaggle of armchair fucks calling themselves "The True Communist Party", they're all getting killed.

>>2885843
anon have you considered that what you call revisionism is just adapting to the material conditions? Marxism isn't a dogma, but a constantly evolving science
the only true revisionism is abandoning class struggle which Chyna very much haven't

The problem is anti revisionists haven’t produced a mechanism to keep any given party on the proper path. Mao undermined his own Cultural Revolution and literally the minute Hoxha died the PPSH went revisionist and self liquidated. There’s flaws in the mechanics of the party form itself but I’m not literate enough to articulate them or present a positive alternative, for that I’m sorry.

>>2885882
>haven’t produced a mechanism to keep any given party on the proper path
what is le trve prvper path?

>>2885887
Repressing the bourgeois, advancing towards classlessness and moneylessness, dissolving the division of labor and “the economy” writ large. I’m not an ultra in the sense that I think any one nation state or even a continent by itself can accomplish in one or two five year plans.

>>2885878
Excerpt from an essay I wrote:

The main theoretical ground of Chinese revisionism is that the world is not ready for communism and that they cannot achieve it themselves, only sitting by passively for the worldwide revolution to happen. They think with enough economic development, China will become the most powerful country in the world, and socialism will come to exist peacefully. This is a lot like Eurocommunism. To think Communism will inevitably come about like the rapture is mechanistic materialism, where the contradictory parts inside a system are not acknowledged. Communism is not inevitable. This is a rightist theoretical failure which Stalin describes as too much faith in the workers to endure capitalist conditions while continuing to have socialist consciousness.

Predicting the future is beyond us scientifically. Even if we knew how, it would take an enormous computer to simulate all the electromagnetic fields and molecules and atoms needed to predict with good accuracy the future course of human civilisation (let alone know anything with perfect certainty, because then you’d have to simulate the universe). By studying the past we can predict ourselves that Communism will be the next stage in Human history. But we can’t know it. History is made by all the people on the Earth, and their decisions make historical social forces that inform the decisions of everyone in the future. People are made by their material reality, but what makes history is people, not an abstract historical process that resolves automatically. It certainly will, but how exactly it does so is up to us!

The roaders claim that socialism in China is impossible due to capitalist encirclement. This goes against the theory of socialism in one country – in fact, in a lot of ways the arguments of revisionists are the same as left-communists. The heart of Chinese theoretical revisionism is that of Bukharin, who was both a rightist and ultra-leftist. Left-communism and rightism are linked in a lot of ways, especially so when it comes to the theoretical defence of China, where both agree that socialism cannot actually be built in the modern day. Socialism in one country is so important because people are made by their environment. If you run a capitalist state for 40 years you will become capitalist yourself. Only if you believe individuals are not informed by their material conditions can you claim that it is possible to run a state capitalist country without turning into a capitalist yourself. The CPC even encouraged their members to be capitalists!

The bourgeois counter-revolution is often likened to the NEP, but they could not be any more different. China’s analogy to the NEP was the period of New Democracy, where elements of the national bourgeois were accepted in order to develop the country to a modern standard. These policies were correct in their time period for achieving modernisation and completing capitalism, but they were always temporary, and once they were completed industry in both countries skyrocketed, with socialist economy proving more efficient. China was already a modern country in an industrial and social sense by the 1970s. For example, GDP growth between 1963 and 1978 was 7.5. Calories per day increased from just over 1800, to 2400. In the 1930s, infant mortality was 300 per 1000. In 1978 it was 30 per 1000. Life expectancy drastically increased (Chris Brama, Chinese Economic Development pp. 286-315). Industry modernised, and the Unlike the NEP and New Democracy, the “reform and opening up” was historically, socially and economically unnecessary.

When the roaders won, they ended the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution and abandoned class struggle. Class struggle is the primary contradiction in socialism. The roaders overturned this after taking power in 1976. The 1981 resolution concretely states their abandonment of class struggle as the primary contradiction. The primary contradiction that they found was not the threat of imperialism (which is dubious considering the strength of China’s position even before any collaboration with the West, where only a joint invasion by both the U$ and the U$$R could defeat them), but, as Xi Xingping put it in the 19th National Congress, “the contradiction between the people's ever-growing need for a better life and unbalanced and inadequate development”. That is not a Marxist understanding of the contradictions at play.

The bourgeois state of China is closest to fascism than any other label. It uses socialist rhetoric while being economically capitalist. There is a large state sector which is run for profit, with the bourgeois being brought under control of the party. The workers union is for stability, not for class struggle. The only country it can be compared to in its economic inequality is America. It is an imperialist country. Class struggle is completely rejected while socialist imagery remains, which is a famous aspect of capitalism. That being said, it is not worse than the U$A – they are both massive imperialist countries who are responsible for the deaths of millions each year through social murder. It is probably most similar to social-fascist countries like Denmark.

>>2885890
>Repressing the bourgeois, advancing towards classlessness and moneylessness, dissolving the division of labor and “the economy” writ large
How is China not doing this
>kills the bourgeoisie when step out of line
>proletarization of mental work via AI
>cashless society, functional labor tokens (nationalization + plan = money as labor token)
>peasants are dying out and what remains become proles

>>2885894
>The only country it can be compared to in its economic inequality is America. It is an imperialist country. Class struggle is completely rejected while socialist imagery remains, which is a famous aspect of capitalism. That being said, it is not worse than the U$A – they are both massive imperialist countries who are responsible for the deaths of millions each year through social murder. It is probably most similar to social-fascist countries like Denmark.
delusional take

>>2885894
never attack in a free-for-all

>>2885894
The problem with your essay is that it fails to acknowledge that Mao himself ended the “Mass Phase” of the cultural revolution by 1967, more then a decade before his death and called on the PLA to break up the Shanghai Commune. Mao himself let Deng Xiaoping and other capitalist roaders back into the parry who had been previously exiled. It was Mao that de facto allied China to US imperialism against the revisionist bloc which ended in US hyper imperialism we’re still living through.

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I do and don't agree with you. I really don't feel like getting that deep into the China subject because it is rather unrelated to the rest of the world. They've chosen to isolate themselves from the world, as is their history. They don't interfere with any other country's politics and they don't allow anyone to interfere with theirs. What difference does it make whether they are revisionists or not? They're not going to ally with you anyway, your opinion has 0 possible effect on Chinese society. No Chinese people are going to read what you have to say.

Here is the real redpill though. Everything you complain about Deng started under Mao. Very ironic to be bitching about capitalist roaders when that was Maoism all along.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1969-76v17/d194
>Chairman Mao: (Pointing to Dr. Kissinger) “Seize the hour and seize the day.” I think that, generally speaking, people like me sound a lot of big cannons. (Chou laughs.) That is, things like “the whole world should unite and defeat imperialism, revisionism, and all reactionaries, and establish socialism.”

<President Nixon: Like me. And bandits.


>Chairman Mao: But perhaps you as an individual may not be among those to be overthrown. They say that he (Dr. Kissinger) is also among those not to be overthrown personally. And if all of you are overthrown we wouldn’t have any more friends left.

>>2885901
To say it was all Mao is to act like he was a great leader above everyone else who made all the decisions alone. The active phase of the GPCR ended because PLA threatened Mao and the red guards. Mao still supported the GPCR and in the year of his death took a leftwards turn.

But Mao must be criticised for his inaction and nihilism in this period. The revolutionary leadership had transitioned from him to the "gang of four". He should have said they were in charge and Jiang Qing should have ran the country - the fact that he didn't do this is a major stain against him.

>>2885903
Kind of but kind of not. As I said earlier in my post Mao was kind of forced onto a bad line / became nihilistic, but he also still kept up class struggle and I wouldn't say China became bourgeois under him since there was still revotionaries.

>>2885903
China does intervene though, during the height of the Nepali civil war both China and India threatened to restore the monarchy by force unless Prachanda agreed to abandon the PPW and become a liberal politician

>>2885905
Part of it is any military is hierarchical and thus a breeding ground for right wing politics, but surely you acknowledge that Mao allowed rightists control of the PLA and this was part of his own self undermining, assuming the GCPR wasn’t a cynical ploy from the start.

>>2885787
>hates revisionists
>posts revisionist

>>2885910
Your ideology has exactly one military victory that ended up creating neoliberal apartheid in Ethiopia

>>2885909
Yeah kind of, but also Mao had his hands tied. The roaders brought up generals like Peng Dehuai and it's not like Mao could just remove him.

>>2885910
I would go on about Hoxha being a dogmato-revisionist but I do respect Albania it's just Hoxha was completely wrong and stupid in the way he criticised the GPCR and Mao.

>>2885915
Were guys like Peng usually KMT turncoats? I feel like if that was true it should’ve overridden any other question in their appointment

>>2885917
The biggest ideological win for Hoxhaism is Hoxhaist guerrillas inspiring Hugo Chavez to do left populist revisionism. The others ended in the worst neoliberal regimes in Africa.

The PCP should be criticised for upholding the theory of three worlds, which is a revisionist theory. The PCP claimed that the theory itself wasn't bad since it was written by Mao, and instead it was Deng who was twisting it to be reactionary. It is understandable in a way because it posits both the Soviet Union and America were the 1st world countries who were the main imperialists. But really, it was the PCP who were twisting a bad idea into something workable for Maoists. The Theory of Three Worlds was really a Dengist theory that Mao should never have said. It fails because it acts like only a couple of countries are the real imperialists. But that then ignores countries like the UK and France who are still major imperialist powers as folding them into the "2nd world". 3 worlds theory is bad.

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>>2885787
>I hate revisionists
Save your hate for the class enemy. Most allies before maoism were revisionist at some point and can always fall back into it. The true revisionists to hate are the ones within one's party that arise to dismantle the revolution. Online revisionists and the revisionists of already revisionist parties are just people to refute with theory and practice.
>They have completely ossified mindsets and won't ever change their minds
Some can and will, others probably will not. Never stop refuting them regardless, calling out thier disasterous errors. It is result of those deadly errors that we all live within the darkness of today.


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