UK Conservatives and far-right Reform UK pledge mass eviction of foreign nationals from social housing
The UK’s main opposition Conservative Party has announced it will end social housing provision for foreign nationals in England if it enters government at the next election…
Lads they're building a Mega Mosque
>>2891101I don't think non-whites or women are losers. an underlying social assumption that they're lesser may be the roots of why identifying with their group doesn't come across as loser behaviour, but equally it may just be that they're not default - while "some white guy" is still in some sense the default. (you can even see this extended to something like fantasy games, where there's a moderate "lol really?" kind of attitude to picking to play "some white guy with a sword" in a world where you can be a transsexual half-dark-elf furry priest.)
a fun case here would be being American: in a world culturally colonised by Americans, being American is not in fact uncool, and cool Americans are undeniably still Americans, but being an unironic proud USA-USA-USA MAGA type is very uncool.
if I can have a confused metaphor: I think that a non-default identity imposes choices that a default one does not. for example in the UK, Englishness is the default. English people do not really have to ask "would I like my country to be independent of the united kingdom?", but people in every other constituent nation do. you can even see a similar dynamic where assimilation to the default/unionism is uncool, and accentuation of difference (independence movements) are cool. for the english, it is a lose-lose situation: unionism is unionism (loser), but independence also has something of the masturbatory wizardchan sort about it. (loser), the only winning moves are to accept the question doesn't come up (ironically, the default), or to defer to the minority group when it does. (annoying, but not inherently loser)
>>2891118What you are describing is the universal and particular subject of society, which is contonuous of Beauvoir in "The Second Sex" (1949). Indeed, masculinity is universal (the pronoun "he" literally describes all of humanity). Whiteness in its code is also not simply dominant, but normative of what we may call civilisation. My resolve however is not to accept the disparity (as you appear to), but to invite the excluded into the fold. For this, I take the Whiggish stance of Daniel Defoe (1701):
<From hence I only infer, that an Englishman, of all men, ought not to despise foreigners as such, and I think the inference is just, since what they are to-day, we were yesterday, and to-morrow they will be like us. If foreigners misbehave in their several stations and employments, I have nothing to do with that; the laws are open to punish them equally with natives, and let them have no favour. […] A true-born Englishman's a contradiction, In speech an irony, in fact a fiction: A banter made to be a test of fools, Which those that use it justly ridicules; A metaphor intended to express, A man a-kin to all the universe.https://www.gutenberg.org/files/30159/30159-h/30159-h.htmTo me, there has never been a more radical statement on identity than this satire. What Defoe does is to situate the identity of Englishness as grounded in contradiction, in the same way that Hegel does (1816). It is not to deny Englishness, however, but to expand it to all people, hence foreigners "will be like us". The Englishman is an individualist in the same capacity, and the desire for his "free-born" rights has swept over the world. So, England (the commonwealth, not the crown) alone has the privilege of this, but as Defoe adds, only so long as the rule of law is upheld. I want people to be better - you accept them as being lesser.
>>2891133I wouldn't say I accept them as being lesser, on the contrary I think the identity focus is actually a function of the collapsing of meaningful identity distinctions in the internet age. hence the only real identity distinction i put real emphasis on is being cool or uncool, with the relative position of any "real" identity much floatier and presentation-based. e.g. no level of non-default identity, even doubled and tripled up, could offset how uncool it is to be a TERF.
(though that's an odd case, because TERFism is itself non-default behaviour. a sort of third, substantially negative choice.)
I think everyone is basically capable of being in the fold (though that may lead to yet another new fold… coolness is precarious like that), what marks you as being in or out isn't your innate traits, but how you present yourself, which is a free choice. I think I've belaboured the points before that many englishmen are much more foreign to me than any foreigner, and that (tying back to the original thesis of what whiny white boys should do) one of the major divides in politics today is basically whether or not you embrace the concept of "self authorship" or not. (which then circles back to the cool/loser distinction… it's not so much what you are, as how you present it.)
>>2891162As far as I see it, what is colloquially referred to as "cool/uncool" is a matter of "taste". Taste as a power of the tongue to Aristotle (t. De Anima) allows for discretion between subtleties like temperature and flavour, and so the tongue is unique in its relation to reason. To have "good taste" is to have good discernment or judgement, for example. Now, the tongue also extends to speech, which is divided between 3 things, (i) vocabulary, (ii) dialect, and (iii) language. We saw with the Norman Conquest that none of the nobility adopted English as a first language until the turn of the 15th century, and so exclusion was constituted upon this basis. Within each language is dialect, or accents. Accents code positions of class, nominally by territory. A "Northern" accent is a sign of being "working class", but even within the North there are distinctions between deeper regions, which all have different accents. Vocabulary is also colloquial and formal, according to use; a posh accent using slang is humourous because it presents a contradiction. Slang is equally regional, or particular, while universal vocabulary is formal. So then, in speech we see a decoding of class, according to particularity and universality. Other codes of class are etiquette and apparel. We actually saw the regulation of dress codes based in class discrimination in 14th century England, with various sumptuary laws. In each case, we see that "fashion" is never common, but always distinguished in its marginal status by the ruling classes. Once a fashion becomes customary, it loses its marginal status, and so new fashions must emerge. The protection of fashion is then a preoccupation of elitists. We see this well enough with "hipsters", who lose their interest in something once it gains popular appeal, and so move onto other "cult" consumptions. Conservative commentator Paul Joseph Watson once remarked that conservativism is the "new punk rock" on account of it's marginal status - this has its erotic element, in "taboo", which is also why perverts seek to protect the status of their fetish as forbidden, lest it become common, and so uninteresting. This is why I think "sunlight is the best disinfectant", since treating the forbidden openly denies its power. It is the politically correct censors who create the politically incorrect fetishists. From the cursory view I have presented, coolness (e.g. fashion), as a category of taste, is a code of elitism, and so is always exclusive. Once everyone is "cool", nobody is, and so I find status to be entirely vain. What is best is that, as independent subjects; as individuals, we exude personal authenticity, rather than be compelled by the conformity of fashion, since it is chasing something with diminishing returns. So, I would criticise the authority of status as something false, and propose truthfulness instead. "Be yourself".
>>2891104Closely related is "it's happening, but we can't do anything about it because of China/India, so drill baby drill"
>>2891873
I think you're upset
>>2891869"on average the party only polled 22% in wards where more than one in five identify as other than 'white', compared with a tally of 33% in places where more than 95% told the 2021 Census that they were 'white'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yg467m8mjoIn other words the areas most likely to vote reform are so shit that not even Nigerians want to move there
>>2891873Maybe try going outside more then, I'm from London and lived in Plymouth the rest of my life, in "inner city" areas insomuch as Plymouth actually has those. My shitty secondary school was like at least 20% non white or more.
>>2891880
Fair enough areas that are majority non white don't vote reform but places that even have a small non white minority are also a lot less likely to vote reform, the people most terrified of immigrants live in places where there are none, and none want to come anyway because of woeful economy
>Haha, silly leftists. I'm right wing!
>>2891873
Also, yeah my best friend is Indian subcontinent heritage (2nd gen immigrant), maybe if you weren't a dickhead then Sanjay would bring you a samosa too.
>>2891890
No, not all of the working class are racist nazi gammon just because you are, Tommy Robinson supporters aren't the only "working class". They're just cunts.
Most of the anti immigrant rioters that tour around the country are perrenially in jail anyway, they're like 50% wife beaters and nonces or other purveyors of various GBH offenses
>>2891890
You are racist, turbo racist, you are a disgusting piece of shit
I hope you get pressed and rolled over by a brown immigrant worker operating a paving machine, which actively contributes more to your country as your "race" of subhumans who live in a literal swamp and eat fish and chips or beaned toasts /pol/ack
>>2891894
Hasn't happened yet, I'll have to keep waiting I guess, I've gotten a lot closer to being battered by white lumpen scum than immigrants though
>>2891894
Struck a nerve, huh? Also Good, eternal suffering for first world monkeys and whitoid bonglanders is actually good LMAO
>>2891894
PS: make sure and attend your appointments so you don't get your UC sanctioned, hope you're working on your CV so you can stop being such a bitter failson, maybe you'll end up working somewhere with non white coworkers and grow as a person : )
>>2891896
I hope that more non whites do move into my town, it would be a sign of actual economic growth, and maybe there wouldn't be so many reform twats once they actually experience non white people and realise they've been brainwashed by Elon Musk
>>2891902
Difference is that you're fantasising whereas I actually know what you are
>>2891905
To some extent yeah, but I guess that doesn't matter if your only hope in life is to kill a darkie before you jump off a bridge at age 40 because you've done nothing, achieved nothing, and left nothing positive behind in your life
>>2891910
If someone with a weapon asked for my phone I would probably give it to them yeah, because I actually have something to live for other than racial hate crimes. I can just buy another one lmao. You can't buy another life but it's not too late to stop wasting it. Do something that your mum would be proud of.
Haha lefty losers, look at you now!
Reminder that although poorer areas voted for Brexit, the Brexit vote was concentrated on richer people within those poor areas.
e.g. petit bourg cunts, swindlers and lumpenbourgeoise, not muh working class.
Right well then, that was a phone alarm like a nuclear warhead was about to land on my house with absolutely NO WARNING… just to tell me not to use the BBQ
What the fuck is this government playing at???
>>2892173Big Brother is just trying to keep you safe.
Kill everything in the UK, turn it into glass
Scotland and the occupied north of Ireland didn't get the alarm, just England and Wales
No text in Cornish for Cornwall either, nor in any other languages like Polish, Romanian, Urdu or Punjabi in the big cities smh
>>2892243Christ.
There needs to be real accountability against the people who hired him and put him into the position in the first place on the back of him having an 'inspiring story', because their weird liberal racism is ultimately what enabled all this.
>>2892243Disturbing revelation.
May he rest in peace.
>>2892243the tabloids will now performatively hand-wring about how evil our society is and how he was 'cancelled' to death
>A whole bunch of deleted posts
The fuck happened here?
>Scottish Green MSP did an interview a year ago, before becoming an MSP, where they say that rape is a "spectrum", meaning it expansively. (e.g. lots of acts are rape, not just the stereotypical violent assault)
>Far-right type who wants them deported edits it to make it look like they were saying it's a spectrum reductively, (e.g. "i only assaulted you a little bit, not rape lol")
>Scottish Labour MSPs share and jump in the doctored version, accusing them of rape apologism
>Former "Liberal" "Democrat" leader condemns them despite admitting he doesn't even know what they said
>Tories get in on it too.
>Bunch of them QT the post despite it having "Get him deported back to India" in it
>Press jump on the bandwagon and attack them as well
>Nobody backs down or rethinks their actions at all, as it becomes obvious this is what happened they just go "well HE should've been less ambiguous" even though his unedited remarks were completely unambiguous
The Nuremberg trials for crimes committed in the former United Kingdom cannot come soon enough.
>>2892766If there will be a civil war in England, it will be between Indians and Pakistanis
>>2892770>>2892773Shadman Zaman is a Muslim. Millions of Bengali Muslims were genocided by Pakistan. A genocide that was, by the way, supported by the US.
>>2892806They should put all that behind them in the name of multiculturalism though
>>2893289The irony being Hitchens refuses to change his mind either. He got raped on twitter after trying to claim the Nazis were left wing and then shut down and ignored all the replies because his ego couldn't handle being humiliated over something he didn't understand.
>LE COMMUNO-NAZI GLOBALISTS CONTROL THE UKBritain is PEAK slop these days.
Thoroughly sensationalised rubbish.
And just to offer a bit of protest; Lenin on the Fabians (1915):
<The Fabian Society is undoubtedly the most consummate expression of opportunism and of Liberal-Labour policy […] an excellent characterisation of that society given by Engels, who treats Messrs. Sidney Webb & Co. as a gang of bourgeois rogues who would demoralise the workers, influence them in a counter-revolutionary spirit.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jun/x02.htmThe Fabians have always been the right-wing of the Labour Party, and the Labour Party itself has always been a bourgeois organisation.
>>2893370There is a chunk of me that wishes Labour had never overtaken the liberals. There is something rotten at the heart of the British Labour party even compared to those of Australia or New Zealand. It manifests as a lack of a real liberal current (hence the cope of imagining another party would be different) but the roots are probably deeper. (The Lib Dems are also unremittingly awful)
The Canadian Liberals are also duds, admittedly, but not nearly on the British level.
>>2894237did the popists crack down on the anti-popists back in the day? did they have them thrown into jail for blaspheming the pope? inside england?
Can we work on injecting Ash Sarkar with ozempic please?? I don't feel like this matter is getting the attention it should.
>>2894735You shut your FUCKING mouth oh my god. First Pam Bondi and now this. I will kill you
https://orwell.ru/library/essays/lion/english/e_eye>In England all the boasting and flag-wagging, the ‘Rule Britannia’ stuff, is done by small minorities. The patriotism of the common people is not vocal or even conscious. They do not retain among their historical memories the name of a single military victory. English literature, like other literatures, is full of battle-poems, but it is worth noticing that the ones that have won for themselves a kind of popularity are always a tale of disasters and retreats. There is no popular poem about Trafalgar or Waterloo, for instance. Sir John Moore's army at Corunna, fighting a desperate rearguard action before escaping overseas (just like Dunkirk!) has more appeal than a brilliant victory. The most stirring battle-poem in English is about a brigade of cavalry which charged in the wrong direction. And of the last war, the four names which have really engraved themselves on the popular memory are Mons, Ypres, Gallipoli and Passchendaele, every time a disaster. The names of the great battles that finally broke the German armies are simply unknown to the general public.England really
has fallen since the war…
>The working man's heart does not leap when he sees a Union Jack. But the famous ‘insularity’ and ‘xenophobia’ of the English is far stronger in the working class than in the bourgeoisie… Nearly every Englishman of working-class origin considers it effeminate to pronounce a foreign word correctly. During the war of 1914-18 the English working class were in contact with foreigners to an extent that is rarely possible. The sole result was that they brought back a hatred of all Europeans, except the Germans, whose courage they admired. >England is the most class-ridden country under the sun. It is a land of snobbery and privilege, ruled largely by the old and silly. …but not that far.
There's also a fun detail about how, in the midst of WW2, you could hand out leaflets advocating surrender and sell pacifist newspapers because the government was confident nobody wanted to read them. Funny, now, in light of the degrees they'll go to suppress protest… >>2894891The working class has no country, but it also has no solidarity.
>>2894912S poster are you pantied right now?
>>2894891>There is no popular poem about Trafalgar or WaterlooThere is now.
https://youtu.be/Sj_9CiNkkn4 Novara getting absolutely hammered on X for not siding with Arday a year ago, bit unfair tbh they’re making it out like Novara was as prolific as right-wing rags in driving Arday to suicide which simply isn’t true.
Bastani in particular is getting it in the neck for calling Arday a con man, which to be fair even at the time is rather unprofessional as a commentator.
>>2894960Twitter is poison.
>>2894960>Bastani in particularThe wokes are making it out like Bastani personally put the noose around Arday's neck and it's pretty funny ngl
>>2894965>>2894962Honestly the most outrageous thing I’ve seen is Novara yesterday having a guy on to “reflect” on their coverage, but essentially just called Novara sheep following the herd and said they weren’t interested in whether the claims made about Arday are true or more importantly if people are now rewriting history where all the claims were false and made by a single racist.
It really added nothing to the conversation. I’ve yet to see anyone point out that the fabrications are most likely a result of his disabilities, I think acknowledging that is how the guy finally gets left alone.
>>2894960Caught Novaras episode yesterday and had a feeling this is how it would pan out.
Yea, you're right, but all Bastani had to do was not go an join in on the twitter pile on, maybe it'll be a lesson to the twitter-addled retard.
Barry Malone is the guy and ultimately he’s asking what everyone else is demanding of Novara, to hit the pause button on their journalistic integrity if there’s a story where traditional media, for all their astroturfing and manipulation to make Arday front page news, were likely to come out on top.
That’s really the crime they’ve committed, right wing newspapers said Arday was a serial liar and Novara didn’t wade in to counter traditional media “just because” at the cost of their reputation, or blank the story despite it very obviously being a story of interest to Novara’s readership
>>2894982>right wing newspapers said Arday was a serial liarThe Guardian was one of the first papers to do a proper exposé on all of his lies
>>2894984Oh I think Twitter considers that to be right wing media by this point lmao
>>2894986True. I did see an article from one of the trot rags defending him - might've been socialist worker - but their defense was literally just "it's racism to report on it". You really need something more substantial than that if you want to be taken seriously.
>>2895003He looks like a fantasy goblin.
>>2894960He obviously was a con man and a narcissist. I wouldn't have had as much of a problem with the guy if he wasn't calling the cops on people who criticised him. Proper scum behaviour
>>2895003He wasn't the first guy to attack him though. There were other academics and mainstream journalists months before, but he reported them to the police and set legal firms on them to stop the story from breaking. Even Cofnas himself was tipped off about Arday's activity by an anonymous professor at Cambridge.
>>2895007>was a con mannah
>a narcissistProbably a little, but who the fuck isn't in such fields?
>>2895014The guy had learning disabilities and Autism, when I was a lad I remember people with similar issues just making up implausible stories. But not in a Jay from the Inbetweeners way, more like a not understanding the difference between something actually happening and wanting something to have happened or really why the distinction matters to others.
>>2895017When i was in cool the special needs kid sometimes used to say mental things unprompted before coming back latter and saying something like 'actually maybe i dreamed that'.
>>2895018I think that’s the real tragedy here, we’re ignoring the media was picking on a disabled guy in favour of more culture war shit.
I think taking race out of the equation, everyone would agree that he could be let off for making stuff up as well as anyone who believed him.
>>2895014>Lies about running a gorrilion marathons>Fakes Academic work>Lies about youth and backgroundSo aka a man lying for benefit, or a conman.
>>2895024I don’t see why a con man would seek to be a professor at Cambridge, ideally you’d aim for something you still have after being discovered. If this was an entirely conscious and mentally sound thing to do, he must have expected to eventually be discovered as all con men do.
>>2895025>I don’t see why a con man would seek to be a professor at CambridgeCause it pays loads of money, lots of prestige etc.
Additional just to point out concious or not he called the cops on multiple other acedemics and journalist, and called HR on students etc. Not a nice fella.
>>2895023The real tragedy to me here is that he would have been told to make up and embellish in this stuff by the universities and its periphery at every step of the way.
His ultimate crime was not knowing where the line was, and i imagine both not being from that class and his disabilities contributed to this.
>>2895029>I don't know where the line is with emeblishing me CV>Make up that I was mute couldn't read/write through my gcse years>Make up raising millions for charity>Make up running 35 marathons in 30 daysBro's come on.
>>2895040>>2895027I don’t think it’d be controversial to say that autism can make people a bit awkward that way. There’s no reason for a “neurotypical” to purse such an obviously flawed and limited con.
Pursue*
Welp that's it, the leftish candidate for Scottish Labour leader and only one mulling serious changes didn't make the ballot because half of the other """left""" MSPs hated transhumanists too much to swallow their pride and nominate someone with the same views about them as literally every party leader in 2016.
Novara are Soc Dems and Green Party members who go on right wing and centrist talk shows to repeat how "woke 1.0 was craaazy", which in real terms is just ceding ground to hitlerites for no good reason.
Also they glaze Dengist China endlessly and support a 2 state solution where by an ethno-nationalist apartheid Israel gets to exist alongside a Palestinian state.
It's mostly surface level aesthetic leftism and student angst with no theoretical substance or spine with which to stick to their convictions.
I say for the most part because it does vary a fair amount by host, some of them are much better/worse than others.
>>2895043>>2895043Its not really limited if it gets you a free 6 figure salary for years. Being autistic doesn't mean you can just be a horrible twat and liar.
>>2895048>Scotish Labour leaderLmao, bruh who cares.
Although will say very funny showing of how devoid modern soc dem parties are of political substance, that multiple of these parties had to split over transgender rights. Totally patheric
>>2895050>Anon discovers Novara aren’t serious Marxists in the big 26Bastani is still my favourite host though, the rest are snore city.
>>2894984>>2894986It objectively is. All British papers take the same basic line, the guardian just handwrings more. It's the funniest one because it has an international branch and yanks and Australians are always gobsmacked to see the shit the British edition will print.
If your not read the WSWS , your reading a right wing outfit.
>>2895066Trotskyists are annoying though, not wrong but annoying
Odd datapoint: in most countries having a uni degree is correlated with being more pro market, in the UK it is negatively correlated.
Yet in most countries a degree also correlates with voting left as in the UK.
>>2895097People are pro and anti-market for different things, and it's this which most often defines their political orientation. Politics becomes about habits of consumption rather than anything else. That's why you are "coded" for enjoying or disliking certain things, but it's all vain. Having certain cultural interests is apolitical, in reality, just like racial, sexual and/or gender identity is apolitical.
>>2895097The UK has the most acute effects of "late-stage capitalism" as the kids call it (as an example, it's pretty rare for your transportation networks to be privately owned by the public sector of foreign countries because "yay markets!"), it's not really surprising that there's an unusual degree of scepticism towards markets here.
Especially when the lack of jobs for graduates is dismissed as students failing to be desirable in the free market of employment, rather than an obviously serious problem for a modern economy.
rupert low of restore britian says that his party will make it easier for brits to bring foreign wives
>>2895066SEP are zionists who believe palestinians will be "liberated" by the israeli public: who are 95% fascist.
>>2895097University in Britain socialises you into interacting with Landlords. That is largely it. This happens both while at uni and when you inevitably move to the metropoles to find work related to your degree. Usually this would fade after purchasing property but only Verso book writiers can afford that nowadays so.
This is also why the "hinterlands" are swinging to the right because despite their poverty, most of them are property owners.
>>2895114I bore on about this, but the reason this happens in the UK is precisely because we don't have a market system in these areas. The government gives out (gave out, in the case of rail) contracts to loot the public, many of which are domestically owned to no better (perhaps worse) performance. Things would be better run (not perfect, just better) if we sold the whole country to foreigners. They would be greedy but lack the utter useless spitefulness of our domestic ruling class.
>>2895254Good theory & would accord with the unusual income distribution of Hitlerism in this country.
>>2895305I mean surely he just lied to this newspaper right. Idk.
>>2895319Low income+high asset is the key indicator for fascism. When you fear redistribution of your property by socialism you turn to ally with capital. See also: farmers. Dan Evan's calls all of these grousp "petit-bourgois" (which is fucking stupid owning a house doesn't make you petit-bourgois) but apart from that his analysis on this is correct. His proscription, that we form an "anti-monopoly alliance" between the downwardly mobile middle class, this propritarian petit-bourgeoise, and the remnant working class is unworkable though. My arguement is that there needs to be a firm industrial alliance between the downardly mobile middle class, the legacy industrial proletariat, and the service precariat (both immigrant and native), and a housing alliance between private and social renters. This would only really have proper capacity in the metropoles however if industrially powerful, would be able to govern these regions akn to the turn of the century. Rural areas are largely economically unproductive outside of direct resource extraction and industrial estates anyways: the rest are all like small car dealers and homes for bullshit jobbers. Power lies in those who shif the gears of the economy not in those who talk about how to best shift it. It's also the only way to break our electoral gerontocracy.
>>2895349Smh when will people learn that you can't un-cancel yourself by bowing to the mob
>>2895355He was a part of the mob, that was the entire thing.
>>2895357He's just trying to play both sides of the culture war but leaned to hard to the right/white people this time.
>>2895339Seems to be a pretty intricate lie that he brought the charities along and was at the time blogging each run:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100820091332/http://30in35.wordpress.com/Only the most uncharitable and frankly kind of schizo reading of all this says it's a lie, tbh.
>>2894982If Novara are just going to do what the rest of the notoriously evil and usually wrong British press are doing, what's the point of them? You don't have to wade in and go "yeah actually he's based", but any worthwhile paper would be able to wade in and go "look at the dynamics of this stupid non-story", christ, Wings over Scotland used to do that sort of thing single-handedly before he went mental. (Well, he was always mental, but that's another story…)
This is usually the correct framing even when the press
are belatedly doing their jobs. (e.g. the correct centre-left report on the Mandelson resignation is not "nonce resigns" but "why didn't anyone in power notice this nonce puppeting the Labour party for the last decade except for left-twitter? why did they all know, but let him host their election coverage? Why is his protege the PM's advisor?") The point should be to give new information and to teach readers to interpret existing information (e.g. make widely known practices like the tradition - violated in Arday's case to further embarrass him for clicks - of attributing quotes
from a person to a friend, or writing articles with a question mark or highlighting dodgy perennial sources of clickbait headlines - rent-a-quote former MPs and so on.), fundamentally you have to be
hostile to the rest of the press, aggressively (but politely, if you like) hostile, rather than trying to ingratiate yourself with them.
The impression I get from Novara, which may be unfair, is that it's The Guardian for readers who like the aesthetics of dead nationalised industries or foreign AES states and in heir heart of hearts are willing to throw fags and foreigners under the bus to get it, and for writers and presenters who want radical left chic while ingratiating themselves into the British media class… >>2895360What was it Bevan said about people who walk in the middle of the road? That they always pull it off flawlessly by staying balanced on the white line and get where they're going much faster?
>>2895355Exactly - the more you comply, the less power you have in return.
>>2895525>The impression I get from Novara, which may be unfair, is that it's The Guardian for readers who like the aesthetics of dead nationalised industries or foreign AES states and in heir heart of hearts are willing to throw fags and foreigners under the bus to get it,I think this is a bit of an exaggeration, I don't think there is any of there public facing team who is straight and not of a foreign background.
Although I will say on the broader point, they do feel a bit directionless post Corbyn. Like I'm not sure what their position is, especially with Bastani as the front man.
>>2895525To any rational observer, its clear that Novara has taken a conservative turn in the past few years. Gone are the days of "I'm literally a Communist" and "Fully-Automated Luxury Communism". Bastani and Sakar are not even atheists, but openly practice religion. But this is why it's impossible to operate a Communist business platform, since your livelihood depends on capitalist markets.
It's so funny that the endpoint of all leftists who can't shake off nationalism is always ᴉuᴉlossnW
>>2895547I think its more if you have a news show which comments on the daily slop of politics, you are pulled into taking sides within the bourgeoisie discourse. You can't really run a daily communist news show (especially in the absence of a communist movement) , because the proper response to most Westminster stories, would be to reject the frame of them rather than taking sides with one faction or another. If your pulling on your topics from the daily headlines of the bourgeoisie press, you will have to convey a bourgeoisie outlook.
You can see that in their embrace of the green party/Burnham
>>2895549Trots stay winning
>>2895547>Bastani and Sakar are not even atheists, but openly practice religionAsh Sarkar is a Muslim?
>>2895553Yes, but like all liberal Muslims, she coincidentally feels no compulsion to wear a Hijab.
>>2895550I just see that the spark has gone.
They're not revolutionaries anymore.
>>2895554Her parents should've sent her back home for marriage insha'Allah
>>2895557She apparently doesn't believe in marriage, but prefers the term "partner for life". How quaint, eh? Let's read some Engels (1872):
<These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves. This is how these profound thinkers mock at the whole world.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm >>2895563>brown race communist hoe gets bleachedevery fucking time.
>>2895546Eh, I'm not woke enough to think someone's identity group actually matters. Just because you're a gay black child of immigrants doesn't mean you're not going to vote to throw gays, black people, children and immigrants under the bus. In fact odds are that's precisely why you'll be chosen to do it…
>>2895550I think you could do it and that it would make an interesting show. Like you can just crack jokes and personally mock people (EVERYONE in British politics is hopelessly out of their depth) to fill airtime between explaining why this particular story is nonsense, half truth, incoherent, clearly distracting from some other story, etc.
Britain is uniquely well pressed for such a show because it is anomalously badly run compared to other capitalist countries. You can go "here's what Australia did, here's why that's shit, now here's why despite being shit it'd be the best thing Britain ever seen and why it speaks to us being a nation run by cretins for nobody to have even thought to try it."
Or for an easier model: instead of reporting the bourgeois news headlines, report the bourgeois headlines as news. (Bluntly: be Green party 2014-era Wings over Scotland, debunking attack articles, highlighting disingenuous nonsense, unsourced stories, obvious lies, etc. There should've been a quick drop-in-to-arguments article/blog post going "isn't it weird the tax expert the BBC had on to talk about Polanski not paying council tax recognised that everyone in his situation made the same mistake on Twitter, but nobody mentioned this on the air? Could it be that the guy is a right wing twat and that the BBC are biased?" back when that episode happened…)
This is of course "not communism" but there are better and worse models of engaging with the bourgeois press and becoming a part of it is basically the worst one. Frankly what we really need is for someone to emigrate to the US and abuse the first amendment for all that it's worth.
All the people defending Arday do it only because he was black. That's it. If he was a huwite moid, everyone would celebrate him getting sacked and then killing himself.
>>2895368>>2895639He was subject to a hate campaign started by a chinlet dutch eugenicist funded by Peter Theil money. Most of the claims that were "fake" have been proven to be true, for example:
>>2895305>>2895305 >>2895640I agree he was subject to undue and artificial hate (people online in foreign countries report knowing about the story despite it having zero relevance to them) and it was this which led to his death - but people are confusing a protest against the haters with praise for Jason himself. Like, people don't know how to approach the whole thing. It reminds me of George Floyd - someone who didn't deserve to die, but also someone morally indefensible. People are defying nuance, and the tribalism is detestable. Please let Jason rest in peace.
>>2895646> It reminds me of George Floyd - someone who didn't deserve to die, but also someone morally indefensible.Elaborate.
>Please let Jason rest in peace.Nah not after Caroline Flack. The press love bullying people into suicide, they need to be broken once and for all.
>>2895663>elaborateIt's all quite plain.
Rather than being Jesus, George Floyd was a crucified Barrabas.
>The press So focus on the press, not the reputation of their victims.
You don't need to be good to be worthy of life and respect.
>>2895639Why are you so piss your pants mad that people are talking about a man who was hounded to death by the media?
Get a grip or fuck off back wherever you came from.
>>2895693>piss your pants madI couldn't be calmer.
Perhaps you lack emotional intelligence.
>>2895550idk, I feel like places like WSWS manage to discuss current events without just taking an bourgeois framing of them.
>>2895705>defendNowhere do I defend anyone.
In fact, I attribute blame to the press here:
>>2895646So you are proving to be part of the problem by just rushing in with an opinion, presuming polarity, tribalism and the evacuation of nuance.
>>2895708Letting him RIP doesn't involve calling him morally indefensible and hand waving away people protesting against the media's involvement with it.
>>2895646you're comparing him to george floyd who you call 'morally indefensible', because of a robbery he did in 2007 13 years before he died? a bit much innit?
>>2895710He was a flawed man who was bullied to death.
This means that the bullies should be criticised, and Jason himself should not be seen as someone to be defended from his own actions.
>>2895711He was arrested for using counterfeit money
He was a flawed person who also didn't deserve to die.
>>2895712Yeah sure, but I care about the bullies more than some weird pearl clutching around some random individuals you're moaning about who aren't protesting correctly, in your opinion.
Like gee, I wonder where you completely organically formed the opinion that the protestors are annoying, it cant have also been from the same sources bullying him to death.
>>2895713even if he knew, who gives a shit, and;
"The Purchase: Floyd used the $20 bill to buy a pack of cigarettes. The store cashier, Christopher Martin, later testified that he recognized the bill as fake because of its blue pigmentation.
Intent: Martin also testified at the trial that he believed Floyd did not realize the $20 bill was counterfeit."
>>2895714Anon must be a BBC producer or something, you have to give 'both sides' to an issue even when one side is clearly wrong, and by that he means just giving the right wing side basically
>>2895716A lot of people do fundamentally believe that disobeying the law means that you deserve to be killed, or at least can't complain about it happening. Well except laws they don't agree with but I don't claim to know how the allistic brain works
>>2895714The vigil isn't a protest though, it's a vain fiction which doesn't allow Jason to rest in piece. It is a disrespectful grift.
>>2895716>>2895717>Deserve to be killedPlease read this again:
>>2895713>He was a flawed person who also didn't deserve to die.You're clearly illiterate.
>>2895720you said he "wasn't a martyr" which is basically saying he did deserve it.
why do you feel the need to equivocate in a way that neutralises any actual injustice into 'well both sides did something wrong'?
>>2895720ok look, i personally would not attend a vigil like this because i find it a bit distasteful and 'cringe' for want of a better word, but it's kinda crazy to act like you are being more 'respectful' of him by attacking him and saying he isn't a martyr. I don't know the guy but I think it's probably safe to say that he would be more pleased about the people doing a vigil for him than people like you.
>>2895720>it's a vain fiction which doesn't allow Jason to rest in piece.What the fuck are you talking about?
What a load of pathetically disingenuous tripe.
>>2895723>you said he "wasn't a martyr" which is basically saying he did deserve it.What are you actually on about?
>neutralises any actual injusticeAgain, you are illiterate.
I have already said that all blame for a man's death is with the press.
>both sides did something wrongJason deserved to be sacked. You disagree?
>>2895724>attacking himBy calling him flawed? You're clutching at straws.
The parasocial weirdos at the vigil are acting like they were mates with him. It's none of our business. We shouldn't be participating in it.
>>2895726>Being fair and balance lets your enemies winOkay, Hitler.
>>2895728>disingenuousIt is disingenuous to memorialise a man you've never met.
>>2895727Those comments are terrible and cowardly.
>>2895734>protestThe vigil is NOT a protest. That is the problem.
>>2895737Sorry all but its only a protest if this anon approves of it
>>2895741The vigil is a memorial shining the praises of Arday.
That is not the political point of what has occured.
We should not be attending this man's funeral.
>>2895732>What are you actually on about?if someone wasn't 'martyred' then their death wasn't unjust, or at least not to any great extent.
>I have already said that all blame for a man's death is with the press.only as a retreat from your earlier position and you also said he's like George Floyd who you called 'indefensible'.
>Jason deserved to be sacked. You disagree?IDK, I haven't even looked into the actual details of the supposed plagiarism, but assuming he did deserve to be sacked, that doesn't mean he deserved to be hounded by the international media to his death. by saying "well both sides did something wrong" you're basically framing it as if nothing really needs to be done
>The parasocial weirdos at the vigil are acting like they were mates with him. It's none of our business. We shouldn't be participating in it.I mean I'm sure most of them never knew him but you can still empathise with someone you never met. I personally do think it wouldn't be my kind of gathering, a bit too, idk, idpol-y, but that doesn't mean it's actually wrong or should be condemned. I side with them a lot more than the rabid, trothing reactionary hordes saying he had it coming.
>Okay, Hitler.lol, you don't be 'fair and balanced' with your enemies, you ruthlessly take advantage of any opportunity to harm them, when we have a stick to beat the fundamentally fascist tabloid media with, we should use it over and over, that's what they were doing with this whole arday case themselves, a stick to beat liberals with
>>2895744the placards saying "rest in power" are being handed out by an org we know and love called 'stand up to racism', do you think there might be some kind of obvious political message behind the vigil?
>>2895744it's not a funeral tho?? vigils are explicitly public affairs
>>2895744>The vigil is a memorial shining the praises of Arday.Did you watch it?
>>2895751Please contradict me, if you will.
>>2895749Right, so as I say - it's a soulless grift on the back of a dead man.
>>2895746>if someone wasn't 'martyred' then their death wasn't unjustYou have no clue what you're talking about. A martyr is someone who is made a saint by dying for a cause. Arday is not a martyr because (i) he was not saintly, and (ii) he had no cause. The contrivance of the martyrdom of Floyd is the same. This is why I say that you don't have to be good to be deserving of life and respect. Arday was innocent of all crimes to not be guilty of a media lynching, so his death is unjust. You lack all nuance.
>indefensibleWhy do victims innocent of charges need to be morally good?
They don't. I don't morally defend Arday, but legally, I do.
What the press has done is illegal.
>IDK, I haven't even looked into the actual details Okay, so you literally know nothing buy still have loads of opinions.
Please educate yourself in future.
>that doesn't mean he deserved to be hounded by the international mediaThat is all I have said - you just lack reading comprehension.
>you can still empathise with someone you never metIt's none of our business.
>you don't be 'fair and balanced' with your enemiesYou might not - but that's because you're a scoundrel.
>>2895620Adds to my theory that this is all some elaborate bit
>>2895756>Please contradict me, if you will.You didn't watch it?
>>2895756>Right, so as I say - it's a soulless grift on the back of a dead man.Maybe some people there are only in it for their own advancement, and we can criticise that, but it doesn't make the entire event wrong or bad.
>You lack all nuance.I have no respect for what you call 'nuance' but is actually just both-sidesism and worship of the establishment.
>They don't. I don't morally defend Arday, but legally, I do.Why defend him if it wasn't morally wrong what happened? You realise that you can think someone wasn't perfect but not feel the instinctive need to be like "fuck the media for killing him… though he was also a bad person and not a martyr!"
>Okay, so you literally know nothing buy still have loads of opinions.Yeah just like the fucking retard gammon that killed this guy.
>That is all I have said - you just lack reading comprehension.Yes I pointed out how you retreated to your motte when criticised.
>It's none of our business.bro he was driven to suicide by clearly wrong and politically bad actions.
>You might not - but that's because you're a scoundrel.Yeah mate alright. Why don't you go find Tommy Robinson and you can have a 'debate' with him where he just shits all over the podium and his fans declare him the victor.
>>2895769on the point specifically that I don't know the details of the plagiarism, it doesn't matter the details, did he murder someone? no? then why is he an international hate figure
>>2895766The most punched man in the UK
>>2895767Why would I post it without watching it?
>>2895769>it doesn't make the entire event wrong or badIt's inappropriate, as I originally said. It's weird.
>I have no respect for what you call 'nuance'I already knew that.
>Why defend himBecause he was undeserving of his treatment. Why else?
>YeahThanks for admitting that you know nothing.
>Yeah mate alrightYou've admitted to being a liar where it suits you, as well as admitting that you have opinions on things you're ignorant of. You don't sound like a pleasant fella. What else can I say? You base your conduct by the standards of your worst enemies rather than by principles.
>>2895766Isn't he also a paedo, like all fascists?
Zionist scum.
>>2895781>You've admitted to being a liar where it suits you, as well as admitting that you have opinions on things you're ignorant of. You don't sound like a pleasant fella. What else can I say? You base your conduct by the standards of your worst enemies rather than by principles.enjoy losing every political battle you ever fight. oh wait, you don't care, because it doesn't really affect you personally and is just about aesthetics. sorry but I actually care about people's lives more than your gay fucking oxford union 'principles of debate' or whatever the fuck.
>>2895785We all know you are a hardened man of class warfare, of course.
That's why you fight your newest battles here, on an imageboard…
I hope you find peace in life, my friend. 🙏
>>2895788this is just entertainment obviously, but likewise i hope you find an injustice that you actually can get angry about in the world without the press telling you to.
>>2895777Has his nutter misses or flid child been identified in Manc?
Seems to be when they're on the camera he goes quiet quick enough.
Unfortunately the local street guy only had a potatocam.
>>2895794let's at least leave his kid alone shall we?
>>2895796>let's at least leave his kid alone shall we?Imagine how it's growing up with these two freaks. Social services needs a call, quite frankly.
>>2895766It seems like Britain in particular has industrialised public auditors.
You get some in the States, but nothing like in the UK.
Why do we create these types of reactionary, lumpen "journalists"?
>>2895800My thought is that america doesn't have walkable cities so it's harder.
>>2895808Oh, and obviously plus there's a chance of being shot.
>>2895782>>2895766Only an alleged paedo but he is a convicted wifebeater you can look his name up under Charlotte's law and find him. That is also why he is banned from seeing his kids. He was doxxed by the police btw, "Charlie Veitch of Park Crescent, Derbyshire"
https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater-manchester/news/news/2026/february/man-charged-following-public-order-incident-in-city-centre/ >>2895794I'm from Manchester and no.
>>2895816Wow. nice place. Pretty idyllic.
What does he drive when he comes into manc?
>>2895800unironically it's because police are too soft here. most of these scum have a huge rap sheet but get given slaps on the wrist for their crimes.
>>2895818Glossop is on a 30 minute train that gets you off at Picadilly.
>>2895824Streetlore is that he was arrested a few years back but he sued GMP and won so they are scared shitless of him now. He only got arrested because he and his goons violently attacked a liberal environment protest and it was all caught on the cameras.
>>2895849it's crazy how rightoids cry about two tier policing when you can be a nazi thug screaming for immigrants to be burned alive and attack women at marches and nothing happens but if you say you support palestine action they put you in jail
>>2895612I don't care about Arday, but I loathe the British press and those who'll allow themselves to be strung along by it.
>>2895849>Glossop is on a 30 minute train that gets you off at Picadilly. So does he not drive? I was thinking more to identify the house, a house number wasn't given.
>>2895050Woke 1.0 was crazy tho. Leftypol was always anti idpol.
>>2895713Counterfeit money is a lot more common than you'd think. I worked as a server for half a year and ended up with ~$200 in fake cash, according to my bank.
>>2896014Woke 1.0 was logically incorrect in many regards but psychologically sound. Anti-idpol on the other hand is logically coherent, practically inconsistent (you're always ultimately either woke anti-idpol or chud anti-idpol), and psychologically deficient. (either an inferior wokeness or a pseudier chuddery)
Tumblr idpol people have developed in a better direction than leftypol. We've stagnated and declined into boring slow contrarians while they've all become communists while remaining basically creatively active and interesting.
>>2895053>Bastani is still my favourite host though, the rest are snore city.Steven is good.
>>2896385Feel like this is an op. "We as a responsible government must tell migrants not to rape people" is some incredible black propaganda if I have ever seen it.
Ngl it is lucky our fascists are so incompetent because if they had their shit together right now they would be able to march on London and nobody would really be able to stop them.
>>2896031You can't be woke and against idpol though.
The hate-pile on Bastani also proves anon's point:
>>2895355Once you show humility and apologise, you are prey for vultures.
>>2897344The TL;DW is that Bastani didn't bleed hard enough at his self-whipping; that Ash thinks prisons should exist (making her anti-black) and that Bastani is too friendly and agreeable to people on GB News.
>>2897344Basically Novara and this guy
>>2897347 are libtards.
>Novara are now bashing leftwards and are shifting to the political centre>Hosts are constantly shitting on "woke-ism" on TV and online, claiming they're the only leftists willing to call out "woke" positions>Basically just ceding ground and the argument to the right and telling rightoids they're correct>They're frequently on the BBC and GB News just nodding and agreeing with the hosts while trying to flog their latest books >They go out for drinks with the rightoid hosts and politicians on BBC / GB News>They sell football shirts with anti-communist symbols on them despite half of them claiming to be communists>Several of them have a history of posting transphobic takes on twitter>Several of them went after Arday based on the claims of a self-declared "race realist and eugenicist" without reading the supposedly plagiarised paper >Bastani's "apology" for mocking Arday totally ignored the fact he made like 20+ twitter meme posts he's since deleted repeating all the racist right wing points about the situation without even first looking into the situationWill say I disagree with Kav about the abolishing prisons stuff. Certain police forces especially Yank ones need defunding and the money going into schemes to help people so that crime is prevented in the first place.
That said I think total abolition is a step too far, it's a nice ideal that unfortunately doesn't mesh with the fact there's thousands of would be murderers and rapists in any given society.
He's still right tho for calling out Ash and others who say "remember when we said defund police, haha that was craaaazy, like we're so anti-woke, we the love police!" which is equally BS.
>>2897414>libtardsAre we back in 2016?
Also, you just repeated what I said but added a bit more minutiae.
Keep being "woke" and keep losing, I guess.
But I'm the "libtard", right? K.
>>2897241>>2897414<vidrelWorth noting he did a video on the situation more specifically
>>2897427If you don't have anything to say you don't have to say it.
Yes. Ironic. I know. har har. Ngl I think the "completely abolish all police and prisons" position taken by several prominent leftists can only come from a position of being so privileged as to never have had to personally deal with crime in any meaningful capacity.
If you've ever been seriously robbed, assaulted, etc you instantly see it as being a totally utopian ideal.
>Nobody seriously thinks we should abolish all prisons!
Both Hasan Piker and Kavernacle have said they absolutely want this for a start and I'm sure there's more
It's also a very male position imo, you never see women advocating this shit because they're much more at risk of harm from such a policy and actualy grasp what would happen.
Hasan absolutely lost his shit when a woman asked him what he thought the consequences of releasing every rapist, stalker and woman beater from prison could have.
Well sorry, call me an authoritarian chud bitch. I think letting every rapist go free is BAD.
>>2897433I thought the left had left the "woke" behind a long time ago, but the recent AOC stuff has revealed that the cultural revolution is still in process, apparently. You are on my side with prison reform, and so we will both sink together under the wrath of Kav's "lefter than thou" virginity. I am just telling you that you cannot reason with the mob, so don't start acting as if throwing me to the wolves will spare yourself. Kav thinks that if you want prisons, you are racist. That is the reality.
>>2897440Its a Marxist position, one that you dont understand.
Crimes have material base, solve the material base and crimes go away. We keep the prisons until we address the material base, then we abolish the state of things.
Sure violent crime is bad, most people in prison in the US are political prisoners, not violent ones. Gramsci was put in a mental asylum, the upper class have always used prisons to crush political dissent, its no different today.
>>2897440It's just anarkiddie nonsense which doesn't extend beyond first principles. What do we do with bad people? They have no answer. Literally - it's impossible to grind blood of the stone.
>>2897427>libtardsSilence liberal, shifting rightwards and shitting on "woke" never works.
You're not only still losing to the right but you're also abandoning principles too.
Go read the Guardian o algo.
>>2897203Yeah you can, just put all your emphasis on being anti right-wing idpol while turning a blind eye to the left/liberal stuff. It's really easy. You oppose both in theory and only one in practice. (Well, pedantically, neither in practice, since posting on leftypol isn't practice…) Which is basically universal practice when being "against both". One is always against one more than the other…
>>2897443Marxoids be like:
>abolish prisons!<but you go to gulag!>>2897446>shifting rightwards and shitting on "woke" never worksNever works for what? "Woke" is just a gang of bullies conforming people into silence by intimidation. It's not even an ideology, it's an ethos. And I personally see all identity politics as "right-wing", so I wouldn't just jump from racial politics (left-coded) to racial politics (right-coded), either. I don't care about peoples' consumption habits.
>>2897440One of my more cynical thoughts is that we should indulge such people while going all Singapore style on criminals in shitholes. Nice people should not have to suffer knowledge of what the police get up to, their utopianism should be protected, but if there really is a small minority of people fucking everything up then just get them.
Maybe deport them all to St. Helena or something. No prisons, just a rehabilitation and relaxation centre in the tropics where photography is banned under GDPR…
All such fantasies have strange psychosexual motivations, mine is in the lie, protecting the lie, and in being nice to liberals, not in hurting criminals or protecting their victims… As a society we should imagine ourselves as peaceful and civilised. This is quite the opposite of the macho, faintly homoerotic "tough on crime" fetish of most rightoids. >>2897443>Crimes have material base, solve the material base and crimes go away.Sorry but this is entirely utopian. I don't care if Marx said it.
Crimes will reduce sure. We can see evidentially that reoffending rates go down when people have support, and that crime is lower when people have the means to help them, and when living standards are higher.
But go away entirely? There's no basis for that. There is nowhere crime doesn't exist.
That's because there's more to the reason why people commit crime that just material conditions. There will always be murderers and rapists, because there's a physical element to it.
A smaller prefrontal cortex, smaller amygdala, damaged or underdeveloped uncinate fasciculus. Weak or damaged connections between these parts of the brain. All proven by by biological science to lead to more violent and criminal behaviour and lack of self control.
There's a reason why historically when people have lost part of their brain, had strokes, or other brain damage sometimes they have different personalities, lower impulse control, act more aggressive.
These are biological features that cause people to be violent that you can't cure with any number of social programs.
>>2897453>"Woke" is just a gang of bullies conforming people into silence by intimidationRight then, I suppose I need to bully you huh?
>>2897462Are those characteristics not material? Would treating them differently based on their deficiencies (funnelling them into an environment without much opportunity for crime etc) not offset the risks?
Have the optimism of a social engineer, but accept the results might sound dystopian, despite possibly being quite humane. The mere acceptance of individual biological differences isn't fatal to the left project, it just requires adaptation… Even apart from crime: what do we do about the congenitally stupid? At the moment they fuck things up for others and for themselves, and the idea that all they need is more school is transparent bollocks, but we could fix that and have everyone live happier if we put our energies to it…
>>2897453>"Woke" is just a gang of bullies conforming people into silence by intimidationThen everyone who feels strongly about thing is woke.
>>289745390% of the time the people "bullied into silence" by wokies really
should be quiet. (Sadly about 60% of the time they're not actually silenced, indeed they get to go to parliament to talk about how silenced they are)
Maybe it's an ethos, but It's a better ethos than that of the clique of freaks that run the British media, which is what novaraoids have been up to.
I'm woke. But I'm also tired.
>>2897462>I don't care if Marx said it.I don't think he did - it was the Utopian Socialist Robert Owen who suggested prison reforms by proposing the innocence of criminals, who were merely effects of their society (Owen was associates with Sir Robert Peel, whose son established the Metropolitan Police as a "crime prevention" service, in pursuit of these same reforms). Marx in "The Holy Family" (1845) describes the "French materialist" view of things as determined from social causes to effects, such as crime:
<crime must not be punished in the individual, but the anti-social sources of crime must be destroyedhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/holy-family/ch06_3_d.htmHe also relates this to liberals like Mandeville (1720), who argued that vices are beneficial to the public good - Spooner (1850) also argued that "vices are not crimes", and so the cause of the "anti-social" has an ambivalent consideration. Marx himself is only expositing a view of the enlightenment, and not explicitly agreeing to criminal innocence, although he was weary of harsh laws, which increase crimes (1859):
<Law itself may not only punish crime, but improvise it, and the law of professional lawyers is very apt to work in this direction. Thus, it has been justly remarked by an eminent historian, that the Catholic clergy of the medieval times, with its dark views of human nature, introduced by its influence into criminal legislation, has created more crimes than forgiven sins.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/09/16.htmWe see here that Marx is mostly pleading for lenience of vice, rather than any program to spare violent criminals from just retributions. Marx didn't support "prison abolition" in any case. Why would he?
>>2897464If you're a bully, then you will only do what's in your nature - bullies very often have inferiority complexes so seek to overcompensate for it. Until they have a therapeutic intervention, the cycle of abuse will continue. Bullies also often operate in packs against individuals.
>>2897473>should be quietOr just ignore them? It's like the Streisand effect. The more censored a thing becomes, the more attractive. So just ignore people.
>either/orHow about neither?
Be your own person. Stop following mobs.
>>2897462Its not 'utopian' to suggest for example, the drug war is a class war and that people in prison for drugs are political prisoners, this is an abolishment position.
>>2897495Should rapists and murderers go to jail?
>>2897495Also I dont think anyone seriously advocating for this (read, not streamers who read half of a wikipedia article once and then spew shit out) are advocating for 'press the destroy prisons button', its an incrementalist position that acknowledges most short comings like 'what about violence'
>>2897499Yes, lets figure out what keeps reproducing them as well.
>>2897499No one should go to jail.
Anyone who disagrees with me should go to jail
>>2897504So what should happen if someone rapes a child?
Britain’s tabloid and journalist class is irredeemable, cast them into the sea
>>2897502Isn't the data quite conclusive that bad parents lead to bad kids?
Being poor (e.g. having less money in your bank account) doesn't make you more/less likely to rape someone, since that's a moral issue. If you weren't raised with morals, you'll grow up to be scum.
>>2897511Nta but in primitive communism you just got exiled from the tribe, which usually meant dying from the elements and predators
>>2897511The child should rape them back.
>>2897511Well in our current society they'll elect you president
Right now prisons are necessary. In socialism a lot of people will have to be imprisoned, and not just for political crimes. A lot of people will be executed as well even if they didn't deserve it or can be reformed, because in periods of crisis resources must be used optimally if we want the maximum amount of people to survive and socialism to win. Of course re-education will hopefully be the norm. There will be a death penalty for stuff like rape, and the victim gets to kill the perpetrator however they want.
In Communism there won't be a material basis for crime. There will no longer be objective differences in people's upbringings that lead to people being criminals. There won't be bad parents because only the best people will be selected to be parents. A few prisons might still exist but they won't decrease the quality of life of criminals, instead simply putting them in an environment where they can do no harm.
>>2897517>>2897524>>2897526So child rapists shouldn't go to prison?
More brilliant stuff from the Communist Vanguard.
>>2897529Would you be eligible for "re-education", or would you be protected?
>>2897580You should go to prison since you love prison so much
>>2897580Why would I go to prison under socialism, unless people decide I am a reactionary and it would be better for socialism to get rid of me, in which case I would accept the people's decision as long as I was genuinely taking a conservative or reactionary stance.
Text of closing speech written by Tony Greenstein for the bullshit trial over his alleged support for proscribed terrorist organisation Hamas under Section 12(1) of the Terrorism Act 2000 (with a maximum possible sentence of 14 years) all because he wrote some blog posts:
https://greghadfield.medium.com/tony-greenstein-the-most-important-half-hour-of-my-life-d03f7877a492>>2897648I think child rapists should go to jail.
Is that controversial?
>>2897668>Me: should child rapists go to jail?<Communists: no.Who is checkmating who, exactly?
It's all straight from the horse's mouth.
>>2897663>Why would Stalin purge me? I'm loyal to the party.Have you thought much about all of this?
>be bible basher>Join the liberal democrats>retain your illiberal biblical views >liberal democrats democratically remove you as a candidate for not supporting their liberal policies>sue claiming discrimination under the EA2010>win, obliterating the principle that parties have any autonomy over policy or candidates >demand nearly a million quid https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/aug/21/deselected-candidate-claims-lib-dems-religious-discrimination-cost-him-790000Idiot country
>>2897951>We're liberals<I'm not a liberal>Okay - can you leave, please?<Give me a million quid. Now.Has the EA2010 actually improved any justice in this country?
>>2897953No. Obviously not. It's an absurd law. But it will be kept because TPTB want it that way
>>2897440Just ask them whether all the chuddy mass shooters, Neo-Nazis, racist murderers, homophobes, religious extremists and small-time racists convicted for hate speech get to go and join nice reeducation Marxist book clubs.
>>2897945>literally no one is saying rapists or violent people shouldnt goto jail
>acting like this is the caseyou are very smart
>>2898059>literally no one is saying rapists or violent people shouldnt goto jailRead:
>>2897499<Should rapists and murderers go to jail?Then:
>>2897504<No one should go to jail.I hope your reading comprehension improves in future.
Also, I'll ask you: should violent criminals go to jail? (y/n)
>>2898061Okay, so you agree with me - there is no controversy.
>>2898129speak for yourself clean shirt, when I was a teenager I was getting high on legal highs, stealing cars and loitering.
>>2898130Did you also have 20 of your mates on high-speed vehicles with you?
>>2898131Kids shouldn't do whippets sure but I can't imagine the kind of retard that would cry about electric bikes/scooters, what kind of freak are you? Get a life. Motorists harm 10000x more people than electric bikes ever could
>>2898134The ROAD is for DRIVERS get the fuck off the ROAD with your fucking bicycles if you don't want me to RUN YOU OVER, BITCH. Under Communism we will abolish all bike lanes amd finally liquidate the biker lumpenprole shitting up and clogging our glorious roads. The minimum speed limit will be set to 85mph, including in residential zones, as the revolution will finally maximize the efficiency of all public infrastructure. Boomers nearing retirement and anyon else too stupid to drive cars at high speeds will have their licenses suspended and be forced to take high speed rail instead, saving the road for glorious proletarian motorists.
>>2898131we had 4 of us in the back taking high strength tryptamines and cannaboid alternatives doing donuts in the local park, I dont know if thats preferable to the e-bike guys.
>>2898150Is K2 still a thing in the isles?
>>2898153I think spice or whatever is the weed alt most headbangers go for.
I remember back in the day it was 'black mamba' branded, shit was awful.
i wish cyclists all the best when they're in the road but they can do one the moment they interfere with my ability to walk the way god intended.
>>2898129>100 youths on electric bikes, presumably causing mischief by loitering, vandalising bus stops, and huffing laughing gas every night Same in my own shithole village. youths zooming around on ebikes and escooters, doing semi-legal highs that get you off by giving you literal brain damage, smashing shit, throwing rocks, etc
Back in my day (by which I mean about 15 years ago) we'd be inside playing video games, or out skateboarding, playing football or basketball on the slab of concrete the parish council designated as a recreational area for youths
Sometimes late at night you'd get a few freaks with hoodies smoking weed and hand rolled ciggies while blasting shite music but it was nothing compared to what they do now
>>2898055>Just ask them whether all the chuddy mass shooters, Neo-Nazis, racist murderers, homophobes, religious extremists and small-time racists convicted for hate speech get to go and join nice reeducation Marxist book clubs.They'd be executed you mong. Why on earth would they be kept around?
>>2898168Yea, Harry Du Bois is in deep cover trying to solve the case, i see.
Good of his friend to turn up in a wig to give him a laugh.
>>2898167No youth clubs, fuller homes, less money, no future, etc. etc. Kind of sad, really.
>>2898171Yes, that's why tehy put them in the middle, in skirts.
>>2898169They should be kept around because that's a more complete victory for us and our psychology over theirs. Their ugly little fantasy is that they'll gas the lot of us and throw us in an open grave. Our fantasy ought to be that they'll live basically comfortable and reasonably autonomous lives completely stripped of any and all influence over wider society. (Again, perhaps on St. Helena.) In the final instance, they may even be totally broken and reformed and come around to our way of thinking, our psychology. We will force them to be open minded, or if not, we will make sure that the next generation are open minded or at least know nothing else, while their generation passes quietly through old age.
Let a thousand Puyi's bloom.
>>2898171Would send to a gulag on the South Sandwich islands
>>2898274Tedious neoliberal anon here: It's telling that although some free market think tanks floated the idea of privatising our highway network, the best we got was a handful of bridge or tunnel tolls and a bunch of dodgy PFI schemes. I think highway privatisation + local authorities being responsible for all their roads (including being able to choose their own funding mechanism, e.g. tolls, car tax, fuel tax, distance pricing, etc.), without much national interference, + anyone who wants to run a railway being able to would basically be a complementary arrangement.
The subsidy to roads is not just in their actual cost, or even road tax, but in the fact there is no "ugh" factor in driving on a motorway while there is an "ugh" factor to buying a train ticket. Ideally, we would equalise this: "ugh" every time you go on a road, while rail fares are subsidised either by your local authority, or by private operators who build shopping centres or housing developments around stations and use cheap rail fares as an inducement to make use of their property empire.
The example case would be Japan. While by no means a "true free market paradise", it does have toll-highways ("privatised" in 2005 though mainly still state owned), local rail subsidy, and cross-subsidy of truly private railways (e.g. that own all their own track, trains, infrastructure, etc, rather than just bidding for crooked government contracts. indeed, sometimes the relationship runs the other way and the private company pays the government to build their tracks…) by property companies. As of yet, nobody has built such a cross-subsidised highway system…
That's a lot of words to say that while you cannot solve traffic by privatising roads, privatising highways would get you a big slush fund to play with (e.g. throw at public transport infrastructure), hit road users with the full economic costs of their actions (and, conversely, free everyone else from having to subsidise them by a few billion a year), and without any real risk of massively expanding road capacity. (ideally it might actually shrink, as private owners realise they can sell some of the adjacent land and baroque flyovers and just increase user charges… Don't like it? Take Lumo or A-roads then…)
>>2898216Yes, all the walking paths in my city have been turned into unofficial cycling paths and you can't really use them anymore. I despise these lycra cunts, just get the fucking bus, christ. Middle class waste.
https://nation.cymru/news/nhs-probes-welsh-gender-service-following-concerns-about-high-number-of-referrals/Terfs going after the Welsh Gender Service because its doing to well compared to the English clinics. No mention of what trans people who have been through the service think about it, of course. Just opinions from tories.
If they ban SRS before I get it I am going to crash outtttt
>>2898136The baggage is that I hate pearl clutchers
>>2898142Fuck off cager, I wish I could kill you slow
>>2898360Just using the word it said on that video he posted bro
>>2898362"unofficial cycling paths", so not cycle paths then? How the fuck is cycling middle class, it's literally the cheapest possible form of transport besides walking, have you actually tried using busses to get to work? Half the time they don't even show up or are 20 minutes late. Holy fuck I hate motorists so much, absolutely Hitlerite subset of society
>>2898216Fitting picture you chose, right wing culture war pseud. How are cyclists supposed to use the road when motorists openly froth at the mouth about how they should be murdered for doing so?
>>2898266As anon points out, cars kill thousands each year but do we get barraged with stories about how they're a danger to pedestrians? Of fucking course we don't, go figure
>>2898274Exactly. Motorists will never be satisfied even if the whole fucking country was paved over for them.
>>2898310Honestly maybe toll roads would be some kind of solution, I would rather just tax cars out of existence as much as possible though (over time of course while improving public transport).
>>2898173Don't worry, people will find a way to blame young people for it anyway, even though they are just by basic logic a product of their society
>>2898420I thought there'd be at least some token of other concern here (I saw some TERFposting about their leaflets being "Misleading" because they refer to "constructing" a vagina when really it's "reconstructing" since no new flesh is created, which is really fucking reaching) but no, it really is just "you're referring more than the average number, when that average number is dragged down by most of the country effectively not offering the service at all because their clinics have collapsed." with a little dose of "they're putting poor little
26 year olds on "potentially life changing" hormones"
26! 26!!! 26!!!!!!!! we can't trust
26 year olds to make their own decisions anymore!
I do bore on, but this is the kind of thing that really did drill into my skull and make me go: fuck it, people should be able to buy whatever healthcare they want. It's unfair to exclude poorer people, sure, but it's absolutely fucking obscene that some cranks can arrange an entire country in a way where 26 year old adults might be denied HRT at a whim. and that's before you get to the waiting lists, the refusal to let you jump the wait list privately, the pointless gatekeeping, etc… there's no faster way to disillusion yourself with the idea the NHS is a "public service", it fucking hates the public.>>2898447Another good option would be a Japanese style system of taxing cars by size and horsepower. That's why they've got all those tiny little Kei Cars, because every other type of car is taxed at like ten times the rate
and you need to prove you've got a parking space for a car (but kei cars are usually exempt in rural areas).
The best part is that these are complementary solutions. Smaller average car size > less infrastructure space given over to parking etc. Smaller cars + tolls > less attractive to travel long-distance by car when public transport is available.
>>2898447>culture warIs it a cultural issue or an engineering issue of managing a society witj various forms of transportation? There are contradictions between motorists, cyclists and pedestrians - I am only admitting to this fact. It's not a war between motorists versus everyone else, so to say, since even pedestrians have internal strife toward each other (for example, I would prefer it if by custom, everyone walked along their left side of a path rather than competing for priority in a given direction as a sort of petty squabble and contest of dominance. Every day I am confronted by people who refuse to simply move out of my way, because they would view it as submissive - the anarchy of walking is not an autarky. This is also a reason why I love walking alone, but when loads of people are around, it becomes overwhelming, due to inconsideration). Also, I watched this Hitchens video yesterday on "the madness of cars", so I would suggest watching it. 👍
>>2898443>pearl clutchingWell, pearl clutching has its denotation of middle class peril (e.g. I hold my jewelry against the ingrates). There is also the connotation of treating triviality too seriously. I do think that most deformities of youth resolve into an equilibrated, homeostatic relationship - but it often fails to conclude itself in maturity, since the adult does not "put away childish things", as per the proverb. Criminals are very often just stunted children in grown up bodies. Trauma and neglect stunts development by mutating an adaptation, rather than allowing for a natural growth. I just see a complete lack of stewardship; guardianship, over the youths. They have no "father figures", as our American friends are want to say. But to be fundamental - I am recognising a problem; but are you denying one? Things are getting measurably worse, not better, I say, hence it's not as things used to be.
>>2898443>>2898692Upon an extended point of maturity, we see different cultures possess maturation rituals, such as the Jewish Bar Mitzvah, or Spanish Quinceañera. Britain has rites and trials of adolescence, but they're entirely informal (such as smoking weed, drinking alcohol, having a first kiss, etc). The US has a similar model of improvisation, where like in pirate culture, one's tattoo is the mark of initiation, by ritual impurity. I am not moralising about the impurity of these rites (since all fraternising and comradery is in type, a sort of mutual impurifying - especially in the masculine case, but also with females, such as the "Truth or Dare" ceremonies. Here, one must act with vulnerability toward their reputation, and it also becomes a matter of duty and honour to conform to the command - one of the first things I did with a new friend group in Secondary School was Truth or Dare). These are all part of human nature, thus, but when children raise children into maturity, there can be a lack of guidance, and many succumb to stagnation and prolonged immatury through the "school of hard knocks." I think that British culture must be organic to its nature, but that doesn't mean there isn't undercorrection.
>>2898707Seems that way, considering how it seems to have began when her mother brought in an American wignat to her house
>>2898707Tragedy of errors. Deeply sad. Another casualty of a broken society. Prevent and social services killed her as much as the yankkk groomer.
>>2898707Did you not watch the doc?
Rian is autistic. Mother had an American pen pal from prison, who was locked up for being a Nazi, and snitched on his mates - he moved in with them (mother of the year!) and after he went back after a time, he was stopped by counter-terrorism forces. Rian was friends online with an American Nazi called Chris Cook (who was over 18 while she was 14/15, and whom sexually exploited her as well). He groomed her into radical ideology, and the mother snitched on Rian to Prevent. This led to the autistic teenage girl's arrest by 19 police officers - she was later sent to a care home where she committed suicide. The mother was clearly incompetent and decided that the government should deal with the problem. It's aggravating to watch the problem clearly begin at home.
>>2898715Exactly.
>>2898708The state too tried to put it all on this. Oh, how convenient that would be! Put it all on the parent! We did nothing wrong!
This is exactly the point. Broken, decrepit fucking society.
I hate it here. Every day sees me closer to taking a short walk off a parking garage.
>>2898718Everyone's at fault.
The nature of tragedy is irreconciliation.
>>2898707And yes, the comments are full of nasty little people putting it all on the mum as if that's the issue here, that's the thing we theoretically all have control over and can change.
I hate every soul in this backwards island of reactionary filth. I really do.
Legitimately think i'm done with this place. Christ.
>>2898722You are also a soul on this island, just to let you know.
>>2898707The British and American intelligence apparatus have so much blood on their hands already but this is just another example of how the fuck with people. All this shot started with David Myatt who was an intelligence asset
I just saw ex-PM Keir Starmer at the poob and when i asked for a picture he noticed my PROTECT TRANS KIDS shirt and started heckling at me saying i am personaly the reason he lost the election and that i was "Burnham's bitch, a bloody lickspittle just like that poofter Wes Streeting". I've been hiding in the toilets but i lost my phone during the duel, what i do?
>>2898800How are you posting this without your phone?
>>2898800The FULL FORCE OF THE LAW is about to reign down on you!
Mum made some BIG fucking mistakes:
>Have a depressed and significantly autistic daughter who potentially has undiagnosed DID, is big into anime and furry stuff
>Decide despite this, to invite an American neo-nazi ex-prisoner into your home to be your bf and leave him unsupervised around her
>When lockdown happens also give that 14 year old daughter totally unsupervised computer access all day in an attic bedroom where you have no clue what she's looking at online
>When she shows signs of extreme ideology call prevent and the police so that she's publicly arrested by 19 officers and taken away into a children's care home
Also massive failings by everyone else too:
>She never got any support or intervention from Prevent, she was just on a waiting list for roughly 12 months until police eventually turn up out of the blue one day
>Both FBI and British intelligence knew she was being groomed online during lockdown by an American Nazi paedophile, British authorities chose to do nothing to intervene or help her during that time and just let it happen
>No mental health support or deradicalisation efforts even offered to her by Derbyshire County Council during the year of her police investigation, treated entirely as a hardened criminal
>Staff at the care home took her out on shopping trips and allowed her to buy neo-nazi clothing and items
>Staff at the care home didn't remove items she could use to self harm with
>When she showed signs of progressing back into normality the authorities suddenly swapped from giving her therapy intended as rehabilitation, to sessions that amounted to interrogating her about being groomed and questioning her repeatedly about the darkest and most extreme moments of her past
Like anon said, really just a comedy of errors and incompetence. Though that's basically that's all you can expect from this country anymore.
>>2898857Its weird to me everyone wants to blame the mum via the bloke when it's very clear she was radicalized through the internet and her groomer.
Like, obviously it probably wasn't good for their homelife but it doesn't seem to be what caused this in any direct sense like the fact of being groomed by another neo-nazi.
>>2898857I can't really find it comedic TBH, how can this country be so bad? We are so far behind just random other European countries
>>2898857No Country For Autists
Lads, don’t you think it’s tiring that the average reactionary in the British isles, especially online, are basically just zombies or feral goyim that are indifferent to the truth?
Tried to debate one online on X’itter, and the amount of mental gymnastics by them down to giving out violent threats thinking I couldn’t possibly be a “white Christian” (as if that’s the British majority) combined with their servile nature towards the USA and Israel makes me blackpilled on whether improving material conditions will do anything to stop the rising tide of fascism, especially as it seems that the British establishment and MI5 are dead-set in turning the UK fascist.
>>2899466We need to build an alternative media apparatus somehow, that ordinary people want to consume instead of/in addition to reactionary slop.
It's hard for me to figure how this could be done but I suspect it would have to be extremely tabloid-y, it would have to do articles about all the latest culture war nonce-sense but from a "woke, but edgy" perspective. Like no pussyfooting around and trying to be professional and seek approval, talk about sensational shit like Starmer's rent boys, and other gutter filth, we need articles like "Mahmoud is just 15, he loves playing EAFC with his mates, he was battered by far right filth for no reason, here's a video of it, completely unprovoked, and look one of the fash has convictions for noncing and this one for GBH against his ex girlfriend, why are the judges letting these violent filth roam free?"
Idk shit like that. It's a careful balance to titillate the masses without actually being reactionary.
Plus we need a bot army to promote our stuff to the masses because for damn sure the right and the Zionists are doing that
>>2899475>suicidal empathyNgl that words gives me the creeps and should be abandoned, especially since:
- It implies that empathy in and of itself is bad
- The meme is mainly pushed by Zionists settlers, the world’s first trillionaire, and their goyslaves
“Self-destructing tendencies” would be a better non-reactionary alternative to your term that doesn’t stigmatise empathy in its terminology.
>>2899493For that, we need cash, a clear-cut strategic team, and powerful backers willing to bail us out when needed
>>2899475I think we could slowly convince leftists on the importance of having standards and civism by pointing out the people that don't care about these things overwhelmingly chuds (both the native and the brown kind).
Most of their pavlovian response to this stems purely from culture warring not rational thought.
>>2899495I think it's just too strong of a word for what's basically the left's tolerance toward lacks of civism and petty crime/arson, even if it creates a deleterious culture. Especially when that attitude originates from RWer like Tchatcher & co "no such thing a society" etc.
>>2899493>We need to build an alternative media apparatus somehow, that ordinary people want to consume instead of/in addition to reactionary slopAndrew Callaghan's Channel 5 is looking pretty good on that front. They even did reportings on UK happenings recently.
In itself it's an informative but very gimmicky or high-concept documentary channel with wacky adult swim editing but coupled with a 24/7 news broadcast it could be incredibly efficient to spread our ideas. He also have good interviews. Worth looking into imo.
>>2899475Suicidal empathy is a meme, when you look at most people's revealed preferences they're perfectly normal. Everyone tweets about being nice to the homeless and everyone averts their eyes and keeps walking when someone asks if you want to buy The Big Issue.
You are too autistic. You cannot accept that hypocrisy goes hand in hand with civility. You refuse to see the social context of everything around you.
"Don't hold Novara in contempt for revealing itself to be a fully integrated part of the British press, don't be mean to Bastani for being best pals with the cast of GB News, don't you understand they're just doing news? Why do you keep suggesting that context should be taken into account while weighing the actions of people and institutions? Why can't we just judge everyone in isolation?"Silly, silly, silly.
Tell Me What Company You Keep, and I Will Tell You What You Are!You recognise that criminals have personality disorders and that pandering to them is a bad idea, but you haven't gone further and recognised that rightists, too, have personality disorders, that
those personality disorders run this country, and that pandering to them is both doomed and personally damning: they enjoy signalling vice rather than virtue, signal cruelty rather than kindness, signal violence rather than peace.
Even the violent LARP of leftists is in the main harmless unsheaths katana tier nonsense. Politics today is fundamentally a battle between personality types and education levels (themselves correlated with personality types), messages and plans should be formed accordingly. Always say the right thing, always do the right thing, and if anyone notices there's a gap between the two and that the right-thing you're doing doesn't accord with the right-thing you said, say the right things until the news cycle moves on. It's just marketing! Politics is just coca cola for the mentally unwell. If Coca-Cola can promise "real magic" (lies! contradiction! magic isn't real!) and dominate the global soda market while running third world death squads, I think we can wokewash away any of the ugliness of actually governing…
(e.g. say you're working towards the long-term goal of abolishing the police, and if anyone goes "hang on, why are there still police" hit 'em with a textwall about decarceration and rehabilitation and really pushing to do more but legislating taking time… this will sound appallingly cynical and doomed - lying! in politics! - but it worked wonders for Nicola Sturgeon until her husband was caught with his hand in the till, and she was a pretty mediocre player of the game.)
I know what you're thinking: why don't we do the opposite? why don't we have communism, but with the promise we'll beat up litterers? Easy: because you cannot "chudwash" a centre-left government. The open-minded left/liberal will listen patiently to your hypocritical explanations for why the government is talking softly and governing harshly and be set at ease, but the closed-minded reactionary will notice that you're doing new and scary things even as you try to placate him with today's 2 minute's hate. He is too stupid to be fooled. A doomed strategy - Starmerism! - an anodyne nerd dickhead paraphrasing Powell and immediately becoming less popular than leprosy as the smart kindly left see a nasty piece of work and the dumb evil right see a foreigner loving race communist ulez europhile. No, this is a one way street. Woke rhetoric is non-negotiable.
In fewer words:
>>2897461When I'm in charge, you'll have to undergo sex-positive woke counselling for your fantasies of sweaty policemen beating up lumpen for littering. (There will still be a long wait list for an autism diagnosis on the NHS, sorry.) The policemen will beat up wronguns from time to time, but nobody's allowed to get off on it.
>>2899503I don't trust any rape accusation leveled at leftists or various public person by the way. They are litteraly bullshit 99% of the time.
>>2899504Why just presume leftists are innocent?
I mean i understand that you are a normal "woke" guy but you realize that these bullshit rape frabrications are on the same level as terfs saying they fell LITTERALY RAPED by transwomen having a job right? It's a women's feels as judge jury and executioner type of situation and is only used to further anti-social agendas and destroy civil liberties in the name of some hysterics feeling bad.
>>2899510
Counterpoint: The fact it works speaks well of the left and its ability to maintain basic ideological standards. The alternative is being able to have an utterly shameless Trump or Farage figure running things according to their personal whim, which is appealing when you see the loyalty they command but should be horrifying when you see it march headlong into the current anti-civilisation clusterfuck disaster they're running over there.
Platner was hardly a problem-free candidate to begin with (and if he was, and if there really was nothing to the allegations, he could probably have powered through it), and nobody to my knowledge has tried - certainly not succeeded - pulling the same stunt with Bernie or Corbyn, despite more or less every other trick in the book being tried, which suggests it's not as common as you think.
If all it does is filter out already damaged goods (e.g. people vulnerable precisely because there is something to an allegation, even if exaggerated), there's no real problem.
>>2899504He isn't a leftist he is a libertarian conspiracoid. There are like half a dozen women that have alleged sexual misconduct. You are the reason Comrade Delta happened.
>>2899496I mean all that would be nice but why dream about stuff we can't control. We could easily set up social media accounts for no money and start posting stuff and try to get it to take off. Instead of posting walls of text just to each other on here we could make them into little short articles for social media consumption. We obviously can't pay anyone so just have everyone write stuff for the love of the game (there's plenty of people who do it for free already anyway).
Maybe if it takes off then we could develop a paid staff team. But just see if it has any legs first.
We'll need a catchy name like "the unHerd" (but not taken) that sounds kind of right wing and like we're edgy culture warriors that refuse to be cancelled.
>>2899498That's also good but it needs to be focused on the UK. Video content would be nice but a lot of people still just read the news.
Idk guys, we could literally just do this ourselves. Probably more useful than being in any existing parties. Anyone got any more ideas?
>>2899556How about something that sounds kind of right populist but is just class war language like "the Unwashed Masses". Ooh or "the Unbrainwashed Masses" (it's a bit long and cumbersome but idk I'm sure we can think of a banger)
>>2899558Ooh oh how about "Tribune of the Plebs (TOPS for short)". Brings to mind kind of unruly thuggery of the masses, and tribune is another word for newspaper. Plus brings in the romeaboos
>>2899556Something Queers Bash Back or Fags Against Fascism?
>>2899566Nah that's gonna alienate people too quick, we need to basically ape the shock jocks of the right I feel
You need to nail down your target demographic by psychology and possibly by some other demographic traits. (though psychology is the most important, structurally. commit the big 5 personality traits to memory, the politics and styles that they correlate with to memory, and work from there. You can do it in a half hour.)
"Ordinary people" isn't a helpful demographic. There are ordinary eco-communist students and ordinary hitlerite landlord boomers.
Here's a thought experiment: imagine you're pushing Christianity rather than leftism. How would that affect your strategy? Maybe that's not helpful, maybe it is. There's more in common than you'd think though… politics and religion are very similar products at the end of the day.
>>2899559I like it, especially since "pleb" is like the classic classist slur.
>>2899510
Being a weird incel freak should be a bannable offence.
>>2899495That's the thread reactionary.
Fuck knows why the jannies still let them come here, but when you see the flag ITT it's usually an indication to not even bother reading.
>>2899585Well ok, when I say ordinary people I mean basically tabloid readers, probably mostly men but not totally, "apolitical" or centre-left to right wing, basically people that don't think about politics that much beyond the culture war and whatever mainstream media story is blowing up, I guess probably relatively younger like 15-40, would be nice to get boomers on side and maybe possible but kinda doubt it. People that spend a lot of time on the internet getting ragebaited by right wing filth but are probably not actually that committed to the ideas of Giovanni Gentile and so on, they just can see that "the country's fucked mate".
>>2899614Cheers. I worry that it might sound a bit too twatty and academic though, even when used ironically I feel like "pleb" is something only uni educated people would say. And most people probably won't know what a tribune of the plebs is in the first place.
>>2899585As for these big 5 traits, idk, I guess like
openness: moderate to high
conscientiousness: low to moderate
extraversion: moderate to high
agreeableness: moderate to high
neuroticism: low to moderate
>>2898789Am I remembering right that Myatt was the one who started O9A? And yeah he’s not the main guy there’s a bloke called Caleb Sutter who is a confirmed fed informant and his publishing firm is the one behind all the satanic Nazi shit like z temple ov blood etc
>>2899631>And most people probably won't know what a tribune of the plebs is in the first place.People didnt know who Sargon of Akkad was either.
>>2900092<Oh dark lord, for you i shall kill<In return? I'd like to win the Mega Millions Super-Jackpot.Ahhhhh. This fucking place. Please just kill me instead fam.
>>2900226 the dark lord must have been pissed to be disturbed by this pathetic request
>>2900242Rare far right W?
>>2900866Bruh what's with those busted ass flags, they look like trans rights colours lol
>>2900891Bro CANNOT be serious with that facial hair/haircut/outfit, oh my days.
>>2900930This is anti-lancashire propaganda
Devastating floods in Nepal and Tibet.
It's funny tho how the BBC is unable to mention Tibet ever without throwing in some snide remark about it being "occupied" or "claimed" by China in a manner clearly intended to imply the Chinese are evil nazi chuds with no business having control of Tibet.
Same as how they can't ever mention a trans person without saying "this person is a BIOLOGICAL MALE MANLY BOY MAN".
Same as how they can't attribute the blame to anyone killed in Israel's genocide of the Palestinians, always using the active voice ie. "murdered" when talking about Israeli killed but the passive ie. "passed away" when talking about Palestinians killed.
>>2900949I mean yeah, why even watch that filth though, it will never change, just cancel your TV licence
>>2900866Aren't uniforms illegal under the Public Order Act 1936
>>2900968I don't think anyone could credibly claim to be intimidated by these people lol
>>2900968Yes it is completely illegal.
Each of those wearing a political uniform could receive up to 3 months in prison and a £2500 fine.
Don't know if the police would bother to do it anything though.
Honestly though people don't appreciate how beneficial even a mid parade can be for optics. These fascists who are so cringe they seem like a parody of themselves have gotten so much exposure just from marching around in a field. Socialists will say, "That's LARP, we're above that", and then every social media or flyering campaign they do never spreads beyond their org or friend groups.
It is LARP, but the thing is people like a good LARP. Community work is obviously better, but LARP will get you further than any stall or pointless social media campaign will. Like, look back at the Free Wales Army. They never did anything and were pure LARPers, and yet they got extremely famous just by doing events in uniform and saying crazy shit on TV (I don't want to give anything to Haz, but at least he understands how to be a memorable TV personality). Imagine an organisation with the optics of the FWA but being a Communist Party.
>>2900982Nobody here woupd dare touch grass or join a party, so the vanguard will have to wait.
The US government has now sanctioned Palestine Action, calling them a "transnational terror group" in the announcement, although there's no evidence they've specifically been listed as a terrorist group by the US government yet.
Scott Bessent, the US treasury secretary, said of the sanctions against PA:
>"Far-left extremists, their fronts, and their enablers should be on notice: we will bring the full weight of our economic tools to bear. Political terrorism has no place in our society and we will continue to cut the financial lifelines of these groups until they are eliminated."
>>2900991I bet that spook booj Fergie had something to do with this. For a long time he was trying to set up palestine Action in the USA but explicitly trying to tie it to the on the ground resistance in Gaza and so on. Very transparent.
>>2900982Optics is really two things. Something can be bad optics yet good PR.
e.g. like you recognise, these people look absolutely ridiculous, but you now know about them. You don't know about a thousand little weirdoes who share the same views but never got your attention. If you're sympathetic to such views, you now know where to look.
It would be good to have some kind of optics-nuke left org which has no intention of making itself look good, but intends to drag others down too. Imagine doing a joke Stalin banner org that gets invited on the BBC for a "look at these freaks lol" interview, playing along a bit, and then going "hey how come Ed Balls got to interview his wife? Remember how this channel covered up for Jimmy Saville? Have you ever noticed how you only cover Israeli crimes in the passive voice?" until they cut your mic.
Such a party could eschew all the dull organising work that nobody wants to do, yet still do something of value.
Or for another thought: I wonder how a party with an officially sanctioned LARP would go. Like, a serious org that
also runs a Soviet reenactment society. (This might also help you skirt the ban on political uniforms. The stalin banner and red army uniforms aren't anything so gauche as a "political uniform", they're just what you wear for roleplaying…)
>>2901083The YCL will always be kneecapped by being connected to the CPB.
>>2901083The YCL is like 10 people now because the trade unionist boomers running the CPB got too scared by this shit and expelled them all for factionalism and breaking demcent. Last I heard at least some of the former YCL members were trying to organise into a 'Red Britain' network of region-based orgs but it seems pretty stillborn.
>>2901250>Or for another thought: I wonder how a party with an officially sanctioned LARP would go. Like, a serious org that also runs a Soviet reenactment society.So not quite the Red Army but there is a Spainish Civil War Reenactment society and I've spoken to members and they are all Reds. They are vaguely linked to the International Brigades Memorial Trust which itself is links to the CPB (tho politically it is more complex than that as the IBMT is more of a clique for Vets' families but yeah). A lot of them are just left-wing reenactors who do WW2 stuff too (there is an interesting generational divide between older nationalistic WW2 reenactors and younger antifascist WW2 reenactors). Regardless, if any of you want to join you can contact them here:
https://www.instagram.com/la_columna_spanish_civil_war/There is also a White Russian (read fascist) reenactment group so you could very easily created a Bolshevik Civil war one as a mirror and get away with it.
>>2901281>The YCL is like 10 people now because the trade unionist boomers running the CPB got too scared by this shit and expelled them all for factionalism and breaking demcent.This is partially true but that video specifically comes from the Edinburgh Branch and the Scottish Branches are doing quite well for themselves atm. This is largely because those branches were already "Gender Critical/Biological Materialist" so when the Supreme Court ruling debacle happened (which wasn't JUST about trans rights but also the centralism of the ruling YCL clique and an overriding of constitutional procedure) they were mostly fine with it. The expulsions were mostly of ACP-style chuds (which is ironic because they would have backed The Party on the trans issue) when the YCL was doing its whole "Socialist Patriotism" thing. Nobody got expelled over the Hooligan/German Maoist aesthetics although that is a reason some people left.
>Last I heard at least some of the former YCL members were trying to organise into a 'Red Britain' network of region-based orgs but it seems pretty stillborn.This is true but it happened right as Your Party became a thing so it never started properly. As far as I know anyone in Wales joined the Welsh Underground Network/Plaid Gomiwnyddol Cymru, and a lot of former English YCLers who aren't in Red Britain have now joined rs21.
Look at the CPB and YCL prostrating themselves before the supreme court and the Sewell convention and tell me with a straight face I'm wrong to say there's no left worthy of the name in this country and that the only hope is to devolve every government institution as locally as possible, abolish the institutions of micromanagement and centralisation as much as possible (or hand them to foreigners if we can't do that), and sell everything that isn't nailed down to foreigners. (Selfish and greedy but not actively malicious)
Then we can start building a left, maybe.
it's secretly gratifying that anti independence groups and people in Scotland always turn out to be reactionaries.
>>2901325Thank you for vagueposting
>>2901328If I'm vagueposting it's because I've bored people with these broad topics quite enough. Ask any clarification you want and I'll answer it.
This is your regular reminder that you can and should emigrate to Ireland.
>>2901083Agreed
>>2901250I have been thinking a lot about a 'larp group' that also happens to train military tactics. And there would be a FPV drone to film them.
>>2901476I mean what is better about Ireland?
>>2901536- After 5 years you become a citizen and can move anywhere in Europe, so it's not just Ireland.
- Higher average wages (and I emphasise wages, not GDP per capita, which is distorted) + even if you pick unsympathetic cost-of-living adjustments and low income regions to drag things down, non-stagnant wages. Ireland also has a (very slightly) higher minimum wage.
- Broadly better public-sector outcomes despite a more difficult starting position
- Ireland generally obliterates the UK at, say, HDI, average human happiness, etc.
- Ireland has a future and Britain just obviously manifestly does not. Its problems are, for the most part, things you can quietly and competently chip away at while Britain's are those that will only multiply and metastasise with time.
- At the risk of sounding hysterical, the baseline principles of rule-of-law in this country have been eroded and so the government cannot be relied on to not do something really nasty in the future. (e.g. jailing you for your leftist views, whatever they are, however anodyne their expression. Ask yourself: who would save you from that outcome if they tried it?)
- Even if you can trust the government to act in good faith (dubious, remember that time the home secretary called up the (brain)Freikorps to defend the cenotaph?), can you trust it to act competently? Dominic Cummings has said a few times that by internal calculations the government simply does not have the force available to suppress all the wronguns it's aware of, even combining the police and army, and that the prospects for a total collapse of public order are underrated. Now, he's vague about this and a nutter in general (even if he's right on specifics) so maybe he's just counting every Corbynite as a potential Iranian agent and there's nothing to worry about, but it would be hasty to overlook the possibility that most of that number is far-right freaks and that even a government inclined to stop them engaging in pogroms would find itself unable to do so. (Or, worse yet, that a government willing and able to do so still blunders a response through well documented incompetence.)
- If you're more FP minded (and the shortness of this paragraph should reassure you I'm not), not part of NATO, not likely to get dragged into WW3 and nuked directly over some stupid bullshit.
- Liberates you from the stresses of caring about British public life in general.
- If for some reason you love Britain despite being doomed, doing 5 years to pick up citizenship and a passport would still give you a life-raft (or 27) for when this ship inevitably goes down.
>>2901572I already have parental Irish citizenship so I could flee this sinking ship if necessary, but like, I dunno. I can tell this country is falling apart, but I have a decent job that I enjoy and think I could probably keep doing for years to come, I make enough money to pay my bills and save up a decent amount each month (even though my salary is only 29.5k), and like, I just worry going abroad would be a risk and I might end up miserable.
If I'm gonna go to another country surely I should flee the west altogether and try make it in China?
>>2901624Assuming you've already claimed that citizenship and got the passport (which to my surface level knowledge should be more a matter of doing forms than actually moving), don't do something stupid just because I defied the odds and got all the numbers in my list in-order.
I'm mostly posting for the benefit of those who've got nothing much to lose (or who're already on the precipice of losing a lot) and those who don't know that there
are options, since most countries want you to have a visa and a job offer in a skills shortage area, or to luck out and marry one of their citizens, or already be descended from one… which is to say, most of them are closed off. Ireland's the exception.
China's pretty picky so far as I know, certainly for citizenship. Like the billionaires, I'd lay my bets on surviving a general western collapse in New Zealand. Too far away from anyone to be worth hurting (unless the collapse takes the form of a proletarian revolution out for revenge, in which case NZ's nuclear free policy might swiftly be violated by all 12,187 nukes on earth arriving at once) and already sort of straddling the western and Chinese spheres of influence (The second most spoken language is now Chinese, not Maori, and MPs keep turning out to be Chinese spies…)
But they're real bastards about giving out visas, and you get no special treatment for being British despite us donating 25% of their flag. How unfair! You used to just be able to turn up at the airport with a British passport and demand they swap it…
Hence, Ireland.
But not for you, not yet.
>>2901328How is anything they said vaugeposting? Unless you don't know about the CPB and the self-id ruling??
>>2901707bro, why you even watching it? what did you expect?
>>2901707>/ISG/What the other anon said. No real reason to do this to yourself, less reason to expect anyone else to.
>>2901722Why not?
>>2901763What expectations am I putting on people?
I am reporting on the reactionaries.
It's what 80% of this thread is.
>>2901782Since its a bipartisan issue and we live in a democracy, I'm sure we will now have to put this in action!
https://labourlist.org/2026/08/political-communications-social-media/If you’re terminally online, best you can do is to stop being reactive and do some slacktivism.
>>2902011Nothingburger once again. The left as it is is inactive, but still… “stochastic terror” seems to be the latest buzzword from the ChudIntern, and it is funny as the alt-right used to repeat the mantra “stick and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me” alongside “free speech isn’t violence”.
Now that THEY ARE the establishment they used to attack, they’re ramping up online censorship by creating lousy pretexts for it, one of which is “stochastic terrorism”.
>>2902013It's evene funnier because the phrase was used by online leftoids not too long ago.
>>2902013>>2902020People just say things to validate their protected status as victims
In the material analysis, its all a grift for gibs, like benefit fraud
If there was no economic incentive, we wouldn't see this bollocks
Cofnas, the Jewish supremacist that led to Jason Arday to kick the bucket, turns out to be a hypocrite:
https://twitterwebviewer.com/?tweet=2093137641189388497>>2902024FOR ME
NOT FOR THEE
"Working class" is such a dumb signifier in this country.
I'd advise a party to outright tell them to fuck off and say they embrace the middle class we've already imported every other yankee cliche, just to cut the nonsense of "you're trying to appeal to people with degrees and service sector jobs, why don't you consider the feelings of racist landlords?" off at the hip, and remind journalists that the axiom of British politics before 2016 was that Labour gets fucked every time because the middle class fears them, but it is sadly not actually very good advice: 56% of the public think they're working class: 70% in C2DE households and 46% in ABC1 households. Only 36% think they're middle class (47 ABC1 /20 C2DE) and nobody (1% of ABC1 only) thinks they're upper class.
Not, of course, that this primes them for any further-left messaging…
So instead all I can do is circle around to it being one of those cases where the only winning move is not to play: recognise Britain's caste system as an anomalous quirk of a sick society, leave, and never speak of it again.
What party should I join in the UK? I just joined RS21 and it feels too bureaucratic and slow moving for me but I feel like most other parties are probably even worse in that respect. None of them seem to have any members near me anyway other than SWP/SP.
>>2898420Apparently all SRS referrals in Wales have been cancelled at short notice thanks to this bad faith nonsense.
It will win me no friends to say: this, fundamentally, is why the NHS should be broken up. An entire country should not be able to abolish treatment in this fashion on a whim and the most spurious of justifications. There should in fact be the opposite incentive structure: if a hospital refuses to offer a treatment it should be punished and patients should be free to go elsewhere, with the other hospital gaining from the foolishness of the first.
None of this requires privatisation or the ending of full public funding for care. (just regionalisation + splitting up the organisation so hospitals can compete with one another for patients informally)
Although I'd be lying if I said these events don't also make me more sympathetic to privatisation. Who cares if the hospital itself is privately owned if it's publicly funded? If a private hospital wants to take NHS sums of money for gender affirming care - based on the assumption of lots of wasteful gatekeeping - and offer care immediately while pocketing the difference, good!! That's the point of a hospital, providing treatment!! >>2902226Yes the NHS is beyond fucked, but whenever you try to even mention it you get the same kind of reaction usually reserved for child molestors and spiritual soyfacing about how bad the USA's private system is in comparison. Even after you tell them that even the yanks have mental health care.
>>2898420Reminds me of that time radfems sent death threats against a feminist simply because she didn’t abide by standard gender idpol and had the gall to… sympathise with men, to the point she even got exiled:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_PizzeyHow the fuck does this minority of old, irate, middle aged, middle class hags manage to legislate their politics onto all of Britain? Or is it that the classist and monarchic structure of British society enables extreme levels of misandry that wouldn’t be tolerated in republican states like France and the USA?
Though to say, especially when for better or worse even Spain has better trans rights record than the UK, and it was only 5 decades ago when Spain was a right-wing Catholic dictatorship.
>>2902230Considering how wages in Britain have been falling for a long time, I’m not sure if a US-style healthcare system is any good as you’d just end up with a populace saddled with debt. Sure, both the UK and USA’s healthcare have their own pros and cons, but hey at least you don’t have to pay medical bills for a stay at the hospital if you’re in critical condition!
Not that it’s any better since most GPs will try to treat your ailments with just some painkillers or over-the-counter meds, but yh, I don’t think completely privatising healthcare will do us good, even if admittedly trans people would have more medical freedom that way.
But yes, I do agree that it’s absurd how Welsh healthcare has to defer to the NHS, when it would be best for Scotland, Wales, England, and Northern Ireland to have their own devolved healthcare system, even if it’s under a symbolic umbrella of NHS.
Still, does anyone know why does Britain have a crappier healthcare system than other European countries that have a public healthcare system too? Even Italy’s better, despite it being the butt of the joke ever since the eurozone crisis. In fact, rumor has it that Italian hospitals reached overcapacity during COVID precisely because of how good Italian healthcare is. And I can confirm, as I went there to get my pulmonitis treated, twice. But my experience may not be representative as I only ever visited Lombardy (specifically Milan), arguably the second richest of all the Italian provinces.
NHS Wales has just cancelled all surgeries for trans people outta the blue, some even just a few hours or days before they were due to go ahead.
This is all because of a single news article written in The Times claiming that the Welsh Gender Identity Clinic (GIC) was treating trans patients at a quicker rate than other regional GICs, with the implication that this must mean something nefarious and evil is going on in Wales if they're able to treat trans people quicker than in England.
The article was then shared and boosted by the Tories who said they had "concerns" over trans adults having surgeries.
Now the NHS is doing an "investigation" to see what is happening.
For the record - nobody complained about the Welsh GIC services, nobody is suing them.
The system is working better in Wales than in England so that's why they're shutting it down, cancelling all surgeries for Welsh trans people until they configure out what the hell is going on.
All over a single fucking news article.
Also, when the trans patients were made aware of this, the NHS sent them all a link to suicide hotline services.
So it's not like they're unaware of the consequences of this, what it will do to people.
50+ trans people under 18 have committed suicide in the UK since the puberty blocker ban came into affect.
All the people involved in this know exactly what they're doing.
The government and the media would rather you be a corpse than be trans.
And of course none of this is getting attention in the mainstream press. BBC hasn't mentioned the deaths since the puberty blocker bans and still has a policy of misgendering trans people on its "News" output, so I highly doubt they'd mention this.
>>2898420>>2902226Whoops my bad for not reading the thread first.
At least I can add, in totally unrelated news, Milo Yiannopoulos is now in an ICE concentration camp after living illegally in America in some crack den.
Ironic since he was praising ICE and calling for them to have total legal immunity in their actions to do whatever they want to the people they capture just a few months ago.
>>2902439All the various countries do have their own devolved NHS (although some stuff is handled centrally or handwaved through even though they could choose to differ if they wanted to), but that just moves the centralisation problem from London to the devolved capital. In NI's case it's not even called the NHS, it's something like Health and Social Care NI. (Why they integrated social care from the start, which isn't a bad idea… I forget.)
Privatising healthcare could do us good, or do us ill, all depending on how we handled it. A good first step would be devolving it so that local councils control it, because that'd actually hit at the institutions running things from both sides (e.g. take a hammer to both whitehall and the NHS bureaucracy.) and if you don't do that, it doesn't matter what you do. There is a world where the NHS is privatised as one big fat rent-seeking monopoly, probably still not US style (e.g. probably still free at the point of need but sucking up even fatter subsidies than before), and that world is worse than the status quo. But there are also worlds where we can do better: you could have various types of privately owned hospitals combined with a public price schedule for treatments, something like what we already do with dentistry. (though this wouldn't necessarily help in the trans case because the government could cleanly opt to stop funding transitions, and for other treatments might have the problem that we do in dentistry - that the government doesn't want to cover the actual cost of some treatments, and so providers have to either take a loss or string you along not doing anything.)
It all basically comes down to the people ruling this country being a mixture of the corrupt (not just financially, but morally), the depraved, and the utterly apathetic. A big centralised system like the NHS naturally suffers the most when ultimately controlled by such people.
Scotland gives us a good test case for what happens when you shift the balance towards the apathetic instead of the corrupt and the depraved. Things are, pound-for-pound, better without all the openly crooked looting, but they're still not very good. The apathetic are still, at the end of the day, not always that incentivised to treat patients or to not cover for colleagues in the face of colossal fuckups.
It sounds very liberal to say the problem is bad people. Instinctively it makes us think the solution, then, is to put in some good people. No, the solution is much harder: to smash the structures that produce these bad people and replace them. One can come up with optimistic schemes (my devolution fantasies are basically this), with carrot and stick schemes ("try real neoliberalism") even with "least bad" schemes (sell the entire country for a nominal £1 to any east-asian conglomerate and let them run it), but it really is an intractable problem. What do you do when the entire ruling class of a society is sick and unfit for purpose? What do you do when the only thing they're capable of doing well is defending their position?
>>2902456The answer, of course, is to emigrate and let events take their course.
Is is quite farcical that NHS makes it impossible to access very cheap treatments related to trans while distributing PreP like candies for free, which is an expensive medication to prevent an illness that almost entirely target hypersexual homosexual men and virtually every single homosexual take profusely in 2026. I am sure it has everyting to do with cutting coasts and rational concerns and not with a certain overweight homosexual man's personal preferences who was still at the head of the NHS recently. It makes one wonder…
But i agree with the libertarian anon above that NHS should be put out of it's misery. Not even related to trans just that it's entire bureaucracy need to fall it is irreparably missmanaged and corrupt.
This institution is also a good argment as to why the UK isnt a technocracy but merely larping as one, it have more in common with Pakistan than Canada.
"For healthcare to live NHS must die."
>>2902460Stupid idea. You never win by leaving. Corbyn's weakness showed that abandoning doesnt lead anywhere.
>>2902620I don't see how Corbyn's weakness says anything about the merits of getting on a flight to Ireland and never looking back. If anything, it would seem to reaffirm the underlying notion that the situation is hopeless. 6 compartments flooded, and the water lapping up against the bulkheads…
As for the idea you never win by leaving, I just don't think that's true - look across at all the first world commonwealth countries and tell me the people who got on a boat made a mistake for themselves and their descendants. Tell me you know more stories of people leaving and then regretting it than of people leaving and only coming back to show face at weddings and funerals. Tell me with a straight face you're not at least a little mad your parents or grandparents didn't give the Aussies a tenner.
In reminding myself of that, I've made the awful discovery that they only stopped doing this in 1982! 1982!! People could still say "fuck this" and leave during the Thatcher years! Apparently Channel 4 are gonna do a documentary on "the adult side" of furries and are emailing around for rubes to go on and let themselves be manipulatively edited.
Now, odds are it'll just be your standard freak-show, but if anything more hysterical comes out of it you can say /leftybritpol/ told you first.
(There is a little strain of anti-furry TERFism, confabulating the whole thing with anime and pup play weirdos and then concluding it's all a big queer-theory grooming operation, validated by the disproportionate number of LGBT furries. Wouldn't take too much for the right-wing press - that is, the entire press - to realise that e-stalking horny furries is another infinitely renewable source of boomer outrage bait.)
>>2902633Lesbian feminists despise men, including gay men.
The TERF stuff is all androphobia. That's it.
Not to be too Freudian, but I see it as Penis Envy; why would you hate men but also do everything in your power to imitate them? Madness.
>>2902633I've already been telling people that they're going to go after furries next, after they have now even made illegal any adult content where someone "is trying to look like a child", but what can we do? I did always think that the game that furries who get interviewed or whatever play where they pretend it's not sexual is silly and shouldn't we just be honest, but I guess seeing how the world is now I understand why they do it.
Surely it's better to just not let the media in in the first place though than to spew a bunch of lies to them.
I don't know, it's honestly fucked up, I feel like most Britons probably have some kind of hobby/interest in their personal life (sexual or otherwise) that is socially unacceptable and condemned by society, but they will still be the first to jump on the outrage train about other people's basically harmless interests.
I feel like society is so hateful, terrified, and divided. Not a new revelation I know but still. Don't people get bored of the constant hate that is spewed to them by the right wing press?
Fuck the reformist liberals for making "the left" look like utter dogshit to everyone, yeah obviously the conservatives lied about the left but liberals didn't have to give them so much ammunition.
This shit sucks, even on the actual socialist left I feel like I have to be completely sexless and sterile as well. Not saying socialism should just be all about sex obviously but at least we could build a refuge for ourselves away from this fascist society, but no, radfems and other concern trolls even have to stop anyone actually expressing any sexual thoughts in our own spaces. We need to grow up and accept that a large part of our psychology and even society is about sex.
>>2902637I don't think it's penis envy, that's ridiculous, it's just the consequence of giving feminism an unlimited pass to say anything about men, and tell everyone we have to coddle women's feelings at the expense of everyone else, of course feminists will keep attacking wherever they sense weakness, to advance their own interests or just for social clout and fun.
>>2902450The trans stuff is so fucking awful, I wish the suicidal kids would direct their rage outwards instead of inwards but I guess that's easy to say from where I'm sitting.
This cunt-ry is so fucking evil, I swear, it's not even a global problem, apparently in Australia for example being trans is still not even controversial. And they have the Murdoch press too so what's our excuse?
>>2902639Why do Lesbians act and dress like men, but hate men?
It clearly has a deeper meaning that personal style.
>>2902450Burnham's Britain…
Ending NHS is a libertarian more correct position because it's a genuine money sink that doesnt do it's job correctly besides giving comfortably salary to shady bureaucrats, despite being overfunded. And now it is completely politically occupied by a bunch of radfem gammons and their gay guy court eunuch on top of it.
Labour sadly would never have the balls doing anything radical like ending their monopoly, which would let them fail as results. Maybe Farrage or the Tories could do that but i doubt it given their gigaboomer electorate, who massively benefits from the NHS racket.
>>2902639This tbh.
>>2902637While radical feminism is anti-gay men in theory they are quite comfortable with one another in practice, as long as there is the trans scapegoat in the picture at least. Likewise for the few gay misogynists who pretend to HATE FOID but have no problem making alliance with the most anti-male contingent of the woman race.
Radfem hate for furries is because it's a demographic of mostly young upwardly mobile white male coded people that are overrepresented in tech, healthcare, finance and the military (similar to trans). And much like anything that implicitely exclude them or doesnt catter to them: it is should be illegal.
>>2902642It's tragic that they replaced Starmer in emergency to save their future for a guy that's actually sympathetic but is basically just a virtue signaler. It is less likely for Labour to get #mollested so hard in the coming election which would force them to change.
He also tried to larp as Mamdani on tiktok but isnt really doing anything.
>>2902641Not all lesbians do that, but the ones who do, I guess they want to signal "dominance" and so on for sexual reasons. Maybe there is some element of wanting to be men or man-like on some level but I feel like the most hateful feminists out there are not butch or even lesbians, they're middle aged or older cis women that aren't hot anymore and take out their resentment at their husbands on the entire rest of the male population
>>2902648I meant straight women but cis also obviously lol
>>2902645I feel like "upwardly mobile" is only an unrepresentative subset of furries, most furries are pretty broke and work shit jobs, or don't have jobs at all. Even the ones that do fursuit and go to conventions and stuff, a lot of those people have no money because any that they do have spare they spend on furry stuff or other nerd shit.
I remember being at local furmeets recently and telling people I'm stressed out because I'm trying to buy a house, and it's clear they couldn't relate, I'm pretty sure everyone I spoke to about it was a renter and didn't seem to have any plans to buy in the future because they felt it wasn't achievable to save up or was just too psychologically scary as a concept.
Then again I do live in a pretty poor part of the country but I feel like most of these guys were still in the bottom 50% of income/wealth in the population here anyway.
From
https://archive.ph/y8aF6 :
“This place might look bad but it’s not, the people are good people,” said one woman before turning to her young daughter and asking: “Is this place bad?” The girl shakes her head vigorously.
It’s a difficult thing to say given the week’s events in Grangetown and South Bank on Teesside.
Around the corner is the burned-out shell of a house that was deliberately set on fire on Wednesday, killing Natalie McDonald, 34, and her seven-year-old niece Valentina Foster. Metres away is the A66 where, less than a mile away on Saturday, a head-on crash killed seven people, including two police officers.
Cleveland police had linked the crash to organised crime and initially said they could not rule out it also being connected to the house fire, but on Friday said there was no link.
The news will be of no surprise to neighbours and well-wishers who this week gathered sombrely opposite the house in Birchington Avenue, Grangetown. They had already said there was no link.
“It’s smackheads. That’s the problem round here,” said one neighbour.
John Kirton, the brother of McDonald, told reporters: “My sister was not involved with anything to do with gangs, or the [crash on the] A66.
“That’s what makes this so senseless. People think they can do whatever they like. There’s some terrible people in the world and now my sister and Valentina have gone.”
People, all reluctant to give their names, said the community was a tight-knit one. “Everyone looks out for each other,” said one woman.
But they also agreed that there was a big problem with gangs of boys and young men involved in drug dealing and other crimes.
People felt trapped in their own homes, afraid to go to the shops, said the Middlesbrough and Thornaby East MP, Andy McDonald. He called it a form of “terrorism”.
Jonathan Brash, the MP for Hartlepool, said communities felt organised crime was “embedded”.
There have been nine deaths and other possibly gang-related local crimes including a knife attack and the ramming of an empty house. On Thursday evening, video was shared on social media showing cars being torched at a vigil for one of the men who died in the A66 crash. It was in Haswell, County Durham, 20 miles north of the crash site.
The events of the last week have clearly left a community shellshocked and in need of help, fearful of what might happen next.
Alec Brown, the leader of Redcar and Cleveland council, said authorities were working “tirelessly” to ensure people feel safe. About 200 extra police from other forces have been drafted in and some could be seen arriving at Cleveland’s police headquarters on Friday morning.
The extra police are coming from the Northumbria, Durham, Humberside and North, South and West Yorkshire forces as well as the National Crime Agency. The hope is that a show of strength can dampen tensions and reassure the area.
Anna Turley, the MP for Redcar, said on Friday that not every incident police attended was connected to the investigation into organised crime.
“I think it’s really important to get across the fact that these incidents are not all linked,” she said. “It could feel that way at the moment because of the national spotlight on us, but unfortunately, we know we’ve had a high level of crime, and in this area for a long time now, these are incidents, sadly, that we see all the time.”
Terry Chapman is not from Grangetown, but was “born and raised” on a different Middlesbrough council estate.
He didn’t quite know why he had come to the site of the house blaze, but felt he had to. “I know these areas, they are like where I’m from,” he said. “We have problems but when things happen like this … it’s just hard to believe. It’s really horrendous and scary.”
Chapman said criminal gangsters were the minority. “The vast majority of people, including in places like Grangetown, are absolutely fantastic people.
“They may not have a lot. Some do. Some are managing and some are barely managing. But fundamentally, the majority of people are decent and they’re law-abiding. The trouble is that the small minority seem to have a bigger influence in places like this and it’s gone unchecked for years.”
Grangetown and South Bank are clearly deprived, rundown areas. There are small terraces of shops, many shut, and no obvious centre.
It’s also striking how few pubs there are. One former pub, the Magnet – which hosted early gigs for the Grangetown-born comedian Roy Chubby Brown – is now a branch of Heron Foods.
Saturday’s collision took place on the A66 between Church Lane and Normanby Road. Police had been pursuing a VW Passat with five young men in it for seven minutes before it turned on to the dual carriageway, against the flow of traffic. The pursuit was aborted. Ten seconds later the Passat crashed into a police car. Everyone died at the scene, including the police officers Matthew Blades and Tom Clough.
On the corner of Church Lane and the A66 a retired steelworker is looking desperately at the bouquets left for the PCs.
He’s called Joe. “I better not give you my surname, because of the lunatics …”
The former steelworks, where most people in the area worked, was literally on the other side of the road, Joe said. “I could be out of work and back home in 10 minutes.”
He is close to tears at what has happened in his community this week. “The problem is the police don’t have the resources. There used to be a station in South Bank, there used to be a station in Eston. Now there’s no police here and they [the criminal gangs] are doing whatever they like with drugs passing from one to another. They’ve got away with it for years.”
It’s also true that the problems in this part of Teesside are not isolated. Countless other places everywhere, not just the UK, have major problems with gangs and organised crime. You can watch versions of the problem on TV whenever you want, whether it’s Naples, Baltimore or Liverpool.
It’s easy to see places like Grangetown and South Bank as postcards for forgotten England, places tabloids sometimes say are controlled by feral gangs. But scratch the surface and there is light.
In South Bank on Normanby Road, near the A66 junction, is a community gallery set up by the Iraqi artist and Teesside University graduate Azad Karim Mohammed.
The Saabat Gallery is a great place, currently showing and selling the work of the local artists Rita Readman and David Watson.
The gallery’s coordinator, Nathaniel McGovern, has been there five years. “Everyone is warm and welcoming round here,” he said. “People are happy to help and it’s a close community.
“It has been a mad week for everyone round here but you get nice people and bad people everywhere, don’t you? I’d say this area’s got more nice people than bad.”
>>2902670Not gonna blackpill on y’all more than is necessary, but I foresee these kind of disorders being the new normal in the north of England, which is a sign of where the UK is headed, especially considering how the north used to be England’s industrial centre.
What’s worse isn’t just that the main reason for increased criminal activity is because prisons are extremely overcrowded, but that the MSM has barely covered it, despite the fact that many residents of Middlesbrough are being terrorised by roving white British lumpen gangs, and it seems like the targets are becoming less racialised, as among the gangs’ victims include white people. I guess A Clockwork Orange really predicted the future of the UK, uh?
>>2902638>>2902637>>2902633>>2902639>>2902640>>2902641>>2902642>>2902645>>2902646Not a white Briton (I’m what you’d commonly refer to as Asian) but it’s weird how British society has gone from “LOL look at these hysterical nutters” in Brass Eye and Monkey Dust, to seemingly taking the caricatures of moral busybodies at heart.
I mean, how is this distinguishable from what passes off on right-wing British media and mocking bird influencer networks besides the lack of racialised hatred?:
https://fstube.net/w/sSUS5m6pUD8aaV6zpZFjbkAnd I don’t necessarily think immigration is to blame here either, as the racialised androphobia precedes the rise of any androphobia and sexphobia in Britain. Give or take, I put the starting place at the 1990s, when the Satanic panic was imported from the USA to the UK which, combined with the scandals about Jimmy Saville and Gary Glitter, and the rise of sensationalism about sex crimes (particularly pedo-related ones) which isn’t helped by the longstanding stranglehold of bourgeois radfems in British politics, plus the relative lack of pushback unlike in America has given rise to the kind of society that is extremely censorious and repressive about sex. Hilariously enough, even moreso than South/Worst Korea and that side of Korea has banned the production of ALL pornography.
But if there’s any positive note, isn’t the fact that the status quo is being upended the perfect opportunity for us communists to seize the moment? Because radical politics is only viable in times of instability and decline, so I don’t see how moving to Ireland is a solution where activism might be even less impactful.
>>2902693>isn’t the fact that the status quo is being upended the perfect opportunity for us communists to seize the moment?Maybe if we were ready to do so, but we're not.
>>2902693The hysteria about sex in society corresponds to its absence. The strange thing is that people are simultaneously complaining about perversion whilst also complaining about youth virginity. It is a coincidence of opposites.
>>2903104Your chart shows a growing population in basically every year except a blip in the 1970s (what was that about?) and during Covid, even before we factor in immigration. Every other first world country manages growth in similar conditions.
>>2903116The birth rate is below replacement, so the population will decline in accordance with the economy. Inducing artificial demand is fruitless.
>>2903116>The introduction and widespread adoption of the birth control pill and IUDs in the 1960s and 1970s gave families unprecedented control over family planning, drastically reducing unwanted or mistimed pregnancies. According to community consensus on Reddit, free contraceptive advice and supplies provided by health services (such as the NHS in the UK) accelerated this trend.>>2903104We should expect growth due to improvements in technology and societal institutions/infrastructure in general though, it's not only about birth rates.
The fact that we have stagnant or no growth is pretty clear evidence that the UK is declining. But for other evidence you can just go outside and look at how shitty everything looks, decayed infrastructure from the 50s/60s (or even older) that was never supposed to last this long holds up most of the country.
>>2903125>>2903125Same goes for the rest of Europe. Although some manage growth better than others, ultimately all the infrastructure that holds up the continent is decades old and barely renovated. After all, that’s the “official” reason given by the German government for its €500B stimulus pack.
>>2903130At least Europe generally has trains that aren't 40-50 years old though, I do think we are definitely worse off than most of Europe in terms of growth/prosperity/etc. Even countries that were far behind us 20 years ago like Poland are catching up and will probably soon have higher standards of living than we do.
>>2903125>technologyWe don't manufacture anything, which is why growth is based on our national consumption. Decline in real wages means less growth, which is why you can boost it by just giving out money. As for our infrastructure, anyone is familiar that our public works are a scam based on giving out jobs for the boys. And let's not bring up HS2…
We just can't hack it. So let it decay. We clearly aren't that civilised.
>>2903133This decline wasn't unavoidable, it was the result of deliberate decisions. I'm not satisfied just to say 'fuck it' and write off the whole country, I live here.
>>2903134>unavoidableIf a country is non-competitive, then what else can you do?
We are a nation of shopkeepers, as Napoleon once remarked.
We all want to stroll about in villages, not be rulers of the world.
The most I hope for is some type of self-sufficiency; internal markets.
>>2903137>We are a nation of shopkeepers, as Napoleon once remarked.oh give me a break. the industrial revolution happened here, clearly we're not incapable of innovation or production
>>2903140Sure, but we've seemed to hit a limit.
China will have flying cars soon enough, and we'll still be trying to build high-speed rail. We are just limited as a civilisational type. Our very parliament is over 700 years old. We are no longer relevant.
>>2903142>>2903140Here are some empirical statistics:
<in 2024, students from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest entry rate into higher education (66.1%) and White students had the lowest (29.8%)https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/higher-education/entry-rates-into-higher-education/latest/Chinese ethnicity students are excelling over everybody else. This is not just in the UK, but elsewhere, while White Britons (<75% of total population) is in complete decline. China has taken the world-spirit.
>>2903146><in 2024, students from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest entry rate into higher education (Yes genius, there is a lot of them, they can afford it and our universities cater explicitly to the chinese petit-booj.
>>2903149Or maybe Chinese students are just better than whites?
East Asians have a toxic culture of over-education, so it makes sense.
>>2903152>Or maybe Chinese students are just better than whites?I'm begging you to visit literally any uni city.
>>2903133We have some good high value added manufacturing like Rolls Royce jet engines and our contribution to Airbus. Most countries run service economies and run them better than us. Our real problem is that Thatcherism created a bunch of rent seeking parasites and centralised the country to a ludicrous degree.
>>2903134You could always not live here, mind you. That's certainly easier than fixing the problems.
>>2903137We have several very competitive sectors, the problem is that we're actively trying to kill them. Financial Services, Education, Culture, and law may not be the aesthetic building blocks of a communist paradise but they're a perfectly valid base to build a capitalist economy off of…
Provided, of course, you don't develop a reputation for political instability, slash foreign student numbers in a desperate attempt to win over racists who'd still be unhappy even if you have them remigration, slash funding and let the entire world see that you're a miserable little reactionary shithole rather than a cool refined creative hub, and obliterate the rule of law in pursuit of hurting trans people and the temporary favour of a lawless strongman…
We've picked up a weird fetish for the idea we need to direct resources from universities to shite steel mills when our real problem is the constant leakage of funds to parasites: but to let NIMBY landlords, water and power companies, wealthy pensioners, and all the crooked mates and members of the political and journalistic class.
>>2903142I sympathise with this on some level but it's true of all of Europe and also perhaps the US. The funny thing is that this actually makes our task easier: when our leaders talk about growth, a lot of the time they panic about the problems facing cutting edge first world economies like the US - but we're nowhere near them! We've got lots of very easy wins ahead of us in theory. The answers have already been found abroad.
Our problem is institutional: those running the place can't copy without threatening their own position and income.
>>2903146>>2903142Retarded pseud, leave this board then and leave all political activity if your only idea is wait for someone else to save you.
>>2901572I looked this up a bit and apparently housing costs are even worse in Ireland than they are here, and there's not much jobs outside of Dublin and big cities where the problem is even worse (I mean it said housing costs in Dublin are about 30% less than London but I'm not living in London for a reason).
Also, they don't even have universal healthcare. I know ours is utter shit but still at least it's something.
Idk, most of the posts I saw said stuff like "well Ireland is better if you want a quieter pace of life" but I don't want that.
>>2903258I nowhere invoke an idiotic notion of salvation.
Middlesborough will never become Beijing.
It's that simple. It's not even that deep.
We are a small country with small contributions to offer.
>>2903216>Financial Services, Education, CultureSeems like all of this comes out of London, except education, but then you just convert cities into degree factories for foreign students, as you mention. Imagine the UK without 700,000 foreign students:
<Around 686,000 international students were enrolled in UK universities in 2024/25https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/student-migration-to-the-uk/The economy is apparently boosted by over £40 billion from them:
https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/latest/news/international-students-boost-uk-economyFinancial services provide over £100 billion each year. Here's a more detailed breakdown of imports and exports:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-trade-in-numbers/uk-trade-in-numbers-web-versionOne thing I will say is that we import more cars and crude oil then we export. Perhaps I'm naive, but we should just have internal trade. All in all, I don't think managed decline is that bad, as long as it is actually managed correctly. As it stands, we have terrible managers.
>>2903376I've never thought that image was particularly bad. Shipping costs are basically free. Trade is good while "self reliance" invariably breeds the realisation that we want pears but they're all in Argentina, and don't you know it but those bloody bastards covet our precious Falklands so we're going to have to strike them and take their pears before they strike us…
More seriously, I remember someone on /edu/ calculating the shipping costs and it coming out to basically nothing even if you ship them by plane. (In the hold on commercial flights that are running anyway) I'll try to find it later.
>>2903402Maybe cheapness shouldn't be the standard of everything in society?
>>2903402Why the fuck do we need to ship peaches from one continent to another just to chop them, we can't do that shit in our own country?? Why do they even need putting in a pot in the first place, just buy a fucking peach and cut it yourself
>>2903491Just based on the thumbnail I'm gonna say nah
An unhinged stalinist wrote into Prometheus you should all read this:
https://prometheus-mag.com/2026/08/31/right-wing-communism-a-disorder-for-adultsRight-Wing Communism: A Disorder For Adults> Liam Cook reproduces a crumpled letter accusing the editorial board of Trotskyism and ruining Your Party by not uniting uncritically behind Corbyn and then provides a series of catechisms on anti-revisionist Marxist Leninism>>2903569Hilaus. Gormless cunts.
>>2904004i feel like this is pretty clearly satire, and bad at that
>>2904004Obviously doing a bit
>>2904029>>2904030Some mates know the editors and apparently it's actually real… There are screenshots from the discord showing that at 4am after the launch party Andreas (the chief editor) found it.
>>2904032why does it say it's written by another guy then. why is it a complete strawman. why would someone leave a letter at an opening party instead of just emailing it
>>2904033Because they edited it into something real. As for the rest of it, who the fuck knows, but I have seen weirder shit.
>>2904035Why would you edit someone's letter if it actually was real, a bit rude innit. I'm sorry but I question anyone's intelligence if they actually think this is real
>>2904038it's funny and at least partially true, i personally dont care much if it's -real-
>>2904039why doesn't it describe the fitting punishments
i wanna know what i'm getting before i know what i plead :(
(it's LGBTQ agenda, i want to be valorised by the gay furry communists of the future not leftypol 6.0)
>>2904039>Our Nation, Our People, Our futureOne Nation
One People
One Führer
>>2904039Where on gods green earth has this come from
Fucking hilarious that Lowe claims it's not an ethnonationalist party when its advocates spread this
>>2904153rupert low says its not racist because he wants restore to make it easier for foreign wives of british nationals to come to britain
>>2904153The "British Security Project", whose members were arrested for threatening to bomb a Muslim gathering in Sussex.
>>2904181Winston Churchill was a drunk idiot though, something like 13 whiskey highballs a day
>>2904191I mean, aren't we all a bit envious of that?
>>2904191Pretty based ngl
>>2904191I'm a drunk idiot and I haven't had to fight a war with Germany
>>2904440This is rightist mong pretending to be a marxist now?
Kill me.
>>2904442He finds it to be a useful analytical framework
Peter Hitchens also affirms Marxist analysis, as I will re-post here.
Most people here are also theoretical Marxists more than practical.
>>2904445<Guy who thinks black people are a different species finds Marxism to be a useful analytical frameworkYea, not something we should be spreading, i think.
>>2904451You seem well acquainted with the man's work, so you could take your own advice, I suppose.
>Start posting on /leftybritpol/ about how real neoliberalism has never been tried, the UK faked all its privatisations, the NHS is miserable and awful and there are models other than "the US" or "America", etc.
>Bsky starts having discourse about whether the UK's actively-hostile trans healthcare system is an argument against universal healthcare, since it's pretty obvious what Trump would do if he could. with brits generally lining up to defend the NHS and crooked employment tribunals and all the like, and some yanks - helpfully - pointing out that tbf, their insurance policies didn't usually cover transition until Obama made them do it market failure btw , but hey…
so this is what it feels like to be a "thought leader", this is the power Friedman and Hayek felt at their fingertips. i didn't have to make that substack after all.
now it's just a matter of waiting for the postie to deliver my sacks of money and invitation to make a short TV series articulating my ideas with a tie in book compiling my posts with slight sub-editing so that the jet-setting businessmen of the world can performatively read it on their business flights.
>>2904440>people used to avoid being on the dole but they LOVE IT nowadaysWhat utter posh, it's harder to claim benefits now than any time since 1939, and living on dole and making music was a lifestyle in the 70s and 80s. Fuck students used to sign on over the summer!
>>2904643>all the people are cloneswhat did galloway mean by this?
>>2904643All the clones are white, i think this must be AI.
>>2904671His future regime has perfected human cloning
>>2904643Shame he's not a socialist but just a cringe social reactionary grifter
Anyone got the meme of the WPB calling a total rando on twitter a degenerate/social parasite because he posted a picture of himself playing Red Dead Redemption?
>>2904643Fucking Christ….
>>2904933facebook boomer AI memes but done lefty
>>2904662Yep, artists dole is why the UK dominated global music from the 1960s-90s. Government would literally pay you to be in a band lol.
That said, I think what they mean is the fact that there are entire facebook guides on how to rip off PIP to get maximum mobility when you don't even have any disability. Like I've said numerous times, had discussions with people telling me how to do this and I should because they're getting more in bennies than I do working, and I've overhead conversations of people bragging about doing it on the bus/train. I've also heard that just among like, certain communities, you pay off certain "Community leaders" who also have connections, or jobs in local authorities, and you can jump the queue instantly to the largest and best council housing. While I haven't seen this itself, I've heard about experiences of this from friends (who are Commies) I would trust on the matter.
One of the biggest reasons I hate dole scamming, is literally it screws over the disabled for people who can hustle. When someone scams their way into a brand new council house or affordable housing, that is another disabled person who literally can't hustle, pushed back in the queue, or when entire communities scam PIP, that's just more argument to cut back welfare.
>>2904445Hitchens should take his own advice. The reason he claims he abandoned Marxism is because he met polite and nice porkies so that disproved Marxist class analysis lmao.
>>2905197I thought it was just his Christianity, which he doesn't really rationalise, but implies that he had a miraculous experience which converted him.
>>2904662It's also still shameful to claim unemployment benefits for most people. Being a beggar is not yet a virtuous lifestyle. And he's quite incorrect that there's no demand for jobs - a major complaint from most young people is that the labour market is monopolised. He thus reproduces the fallacy that immigrants are taking jobs, but are also lazy. How can both be true at the same time without contradiction?
>>2905199One interview I watched with him yonks ago, said that he came out of his Trotskyism because he started hanging around rich people, who were nicer and more polite than working class people he was familiar with, along with them also caring about social issues and such.
>>2905199>It's also still shameful to claim unemployment benefits for most people.Not in certain communities though, you're seen as a sucker if you are not, they view it as nothing but free cash you get from the Government while you do cash/crypto hustling elsewhere. A lot of the people telling me to just quit my job and do gimmies hustle, literally straight up tell me I'm a sucker to continue working for my shit wage, and the reality is, they are correct, they literally get more in bennies than I earn, but I'm still civically minded.
tbh I'd abandon Marxism if porkies were nice and working class people weren't.
Broke wokies calling themselves communists (and all the openly pro capitalist types being evil little nasty freaks) are basically the last thing keeping me wedded to this mumbo jumbo.
>>2905283So if the rich and poor were both socially progressive (or regressive) the uncountable social murders wouldn't bother you?
>>2905301If it ain't broke, don't fix it
Aaron Bastani has tweeted twice since he put out the apology. He used to tweet about a dozen times a day.
>>2905662Why did he even bother apologising
>>2905737Because he realised he helped the press bully someone into suicide. Dan Evans and "Despotic Inroads" have likewise gone silent after gleefully joining in previously. The fact Aaron doubled-down the day before his apology is kinda indicative.
>>2903569what's going on in britain?
t. foreigner passing by
>>2905301I'd content myself with liberal reformist schemes or charity, "it mattered for that starfish" and all that nonsense. Even if I thought western Marxists had the answers (which I don't), they very much don't have the means to act on them. The scale of the task only adds to my distaste for their smug inadequacy.
If I was less of a bore I'd call myself an anarchist but nobody could take that seriously.
This whole "are you british" debate if you're born here, but you're like Caribbean the rightoids are doing is so fucking stupid.
You have to love the right, both racist, and nationalist, but literally don't have the fucking brains to understand ethnicity and nationality are two different things. Watched some charlie kirk british type doing this argument that you would be laughed in another country if you claimed you were say chinese, but white… but no, they wouldn't, they would laugh if you said you were Han, not Chinese, China has over 50 fucking ethnic groups lmao.
Have rightoids ever heard the term Anglo?
>>2905283The importance of Marxism is giving you the best framework to engage in materialist critical thinking and problem solving. There is basically a reason why the greatest political thinkers of the 20th century, were pretty versed in Marxist thought, even non-Communists like Lee Kwan Yew.
>>2905963Thus begs the question, would Britain still be Britain without British people? If Britain is a nation, then the question becomes recursive, since Britishness must be qualified by a minimal standard. Another way to ask it is, if the Japanese ethnicity became a 1% minority in their country, and the reast were replaced by Anglo-Saxons, would Japan still be Japan? We must conclude that a majority-minority dichotomy inevitably arises. Currently, the UK is 75% White British.
>>2905963>understand ethnicity and nationality are two different things.Isn't their entire point that they don't want that to be the case ? By this logic accepting that would be surrendering.
It's no longer the age of the Enlightenment type nationalist who wants the entire world to be united in their country under one banner, it's now the ethnostate retardation
>>2905973If the white people had adopted Japanese culture/identity to some extent and had Japanese citizenship then yes the country would still be Japanese
>>2905979I would say that it's more to do with what I write:
>>2905973The material substrate of a nation is its majority ethnicity.
If Britain was no longer "British", it would lose its Britishness.
The question of ethnicity and nationality contends with these terms.
>>2905987So the two conditions of a Japanese essence is custom and the fiat of a government verdict (e.g. a passport)? Not even the language?
>>2905973Also, I wouldn't worry that much, the Tory 15 year plan to crash the British economy WITH NO SURVIVORS has pretty much ensured that white Britons will stay a majority since coming here is no longer attractive.
>>2905989I would say language is part of culture, it helps but is not necessary, countries can change their language.
>>2905989Just fundamentally, do you deny that people who are born in this country, speak English, have generally British values, are "black British" or "Asian British" or whatever?
>>2905991So the Japanese language is not essential to being Japanese, but having a Japanese passport is? What are the essential customs to being Japanese elsewise? Indulging in cartoon paedophilia? Plenty of Westerners already do that.
>>2905991We'll see what the results of the next census show us.
>>2905994I don't deny it, but I see the contention of quality and quantity. The transition from one state to another incurs a shift of one kind to the next by its quantitative constitution - think of how boiling water begins by bubbles on the bottom rising up to the top, unevenly. Eventually, the process induces a new state of matter, from liquid to gas, and it all started with a single molecule. If we say that Britishness is a kind of thing, then it can become a different kind of thing, and so cease to be what it was, or even destroy what it used to be. You this qualify the means of Britishness as a confirmity to a set of values and so on, thus recognising the boundaries of the thing. So, if over a century, people in England no longer speak English, is it still England? It's speculative.
>>2905997The only way Britain would stop being Britain is by forced from the top construction of a new state, in the same way the URSS was not Red Russia nor the current Russian nation state is continuous with it, or the existence of current Greece, completely alien to anything that was Greek before the ottomans despite larping as it's successor
>>2905999 (me)
By that I completely disagrees on it being a change that happen qualitatively, every modern nation state was carved and planned from the top by their government
>>2905990Tbf the inverse could happen. The middle classes are always the first to leave and they are overwhelmingly white.
>>2905999So would you define Britain purely within legal statute, as set by the Acts of Union (1707), rather than as anything precedent to this? If we repealed the Acts of Union by Scottish secession, say, would you see that Britain has been abolished and so a new state has been founded?
>>2906000Right, so nationality is purely formal; a legal construct?
Taking all of my willpower not to break my policy of staying apolitical on bsky to write a thousand word essay about how the supreme court legislated from the bench because some idiot is arguing the UK hasn't backslid on LGBT rights while the US has, on the basis that parliament hasn't formally legislated anything. (Even though half of trump's shit has been done with executive power, not legislation)
He's not worth it but it's always the petty little things that annoy the most.
>>2906002>as set by the Acts of UnionWhat matters more is political and legal enforcement of the new state through public schooling, border patrols etc than one big paper, but it is a sufficient analogue yes
>If we repealed the Acts of Union […] a new state has been founded?In this example specifically, it depends how the british state react to the scottish independance, if they're a revanchist state that do not recognize it, then they're not a new state, they're in transition towards the old situation (if they get Scotland back) or towards then becoming a new state
Nationality is socially constructed yes, it still has some uses compared to more esoteric "spooks", since ultimately it gives you access to social security, tax legislation etc, which is why people that want to attack immigration seriously center their attacks on those instead of just going "you're not spiritually british because you don't eat sausages" or whatever
>>2906014>political and legal enforcement of the new stateBut where did Britain begin and when would it end?
That's the question.
>it dependsYes, it depends on The Acts of Union (1707) being codedied in law:
<The Acts of Union, passed by the English and Scottish Parliaments in 1707, led to the creation of a united kingdom to be called “Great Britain” on 1 May of that year. https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/legislativescrutiny/act-of-union-1707/The larger question I posed is whether Britain as a political entity preceded this. Say, on 30 April, 1707, did a British nationality exist? If so, then the nation is precedent of its legal statute, and so must have a more necessary condition (e.g. ethnicity). If not, then the nation is a construction of pure fiat, and so the status of citizen is arbitrary. The point is made earlier in the thread, where it was claimed that simply possessing a Japanese birth certificate or passport makes one just as Japanese as anyone else, regardless of ethnicity. Now, ethnicity is not simply phenotypical characteristics, but also culture, language, and so on - the mark of distinction of a type of human. If we dislocate nation from ethnicity, then nationalism is only statism. Right-wing figures such as Alain de Benoist and Carl Benjamin have criticised nationalism for this reason, the same way a Patriot used to be the code of a Revolutionary, as in the French or American revolts. From a more holistic view, the illiberal philosophy of Alexander Dugin (who was inspired by Benoist) equally rejects nations in favour of civilisational (or ethnic) political bonds. Movements in the past, such as Pan-Slavism, National Socialism, Black Nationalism, or Pan-Arabism have aimed for the same thing, by rejecting a local territory in solidarity with members of the same race/tribe/ethnos. A nation is thus constrained in its very terms, which basically concerns states. We are recurring towards the solipsism and tautology of nations. A British person is British, is the perennial mantra, but is contentless. Thus we persist, "but what is Britain?" Britain is Britain. Circularity.
>Nationality is socially constructed yesDid Great Britain exist before 1 May, 1707?
>it gives you access to social security, tax legislation etcSo nations are simply economic entities which allow protections?
When Palestine fights for independence, is this only an independence from the world market?
>you're not spiritually british because you don't eat sausagesWell, is speaking English part of being English? That is the question.
>>2906045>Pan-Slavism, National Socialism, Black Nationalism, or Pan-ArabismAll of those reject the "current" territories, they just want the borders to expand to encompass all their ethnicities (that they arbitrarily decided belong together because of revisionist mythology), one big nation state is not some crazy special shit, China exists and they call it a "civilizational state" too (even tho they have multiple ethnicities, so I think the logic is lost)
Pure smoke and mirrors.
> So nations are simply economic entities which allow protections?Yes, they in return impose things, like a national language and to a very lower degree nowadays a religion in order to function in society (like filling out legal paperwork in english for Britain) note that you can have multiple languages allowed and have secularism as the religion, it's flexible, also forcing you into following local/national laws through the local monopoly on violence.
>Did Great Britain exist before 1 May, 1707?I do not know how and when the british legal apparatus was in the transition from a kingdom to a proper nation, so I can tell you a date in particular.
Same for the earlier example of Anglos moving into Japan, they would either be bent by common law into adopting japanese, or the state will acommodate both language (with public education teaching you japanese in order to progressively thin the difference out)
>>2906002I wouldn't even define Britain by law. Britain is a floating signifier. Before 1945 it was an empire, between 1945 and at the VERY latest 1997 it was a nation, and since then it had been a form of psychosis. You are living in the Former British Kingdom of England/Scotland/Wales, legislation just hasn't caught up to this.
The treaty of union created a weird Austria Hungary multinational state which was temporarily rendered comprehensible first by empire (where Canada and Jamaica too can be British) and then by a coherent national economy where everyone from Wick to Truro rides British Railways, watches the BBC, heats their homework with British coal, and so on. Even in this reality the empire continued to hang over us in the form of Hong Kong, a serious overseas territory. Since Thatcher doing Gorbachev and Yeltsin in a oner that reality no longer exists economically or geographically.
All the confusion over the definition of Britishness assumes there's some coherent underlying thing it refers to and not a hotchpotch of nonsense from decades ago. In a sentence Britain is Hong Kong and without Hong Kong, Britain ceased to exist. Nobody gives a fuck about empty islands full of pedophiles, US airbases, and towns buried in volcanic ash.
>>2906049>Britain is a floating signifierIt is also the name of a territory established 1 May, 1707; "Great Britain" in particular - whilst Britons are self-idenfied natives to the land.
>All the confusion over the definition of Britishness assumes there's some coherent underlying thing it refers to and not a hotchpotch of nonsense from decades ago.So you would not identify as British then, since it's nonsense?
What would you identify as, otherwise?
>>2906048>TerritoryThe ethos is different with civilisational states.
One cannot contract membership of the tribe by being born within the geography of a colony, as in the case of Empires, whether the Roman or British, but are only regarded as citizens by their bloodline. The point I am demonstrating is that a "nation state" without a "nation" to precede it, is not a nation state, but just a state. A political device for managing populations.
>Yes, they in return impose things, like a national language and to a very lower degree nowadays a religion in order to function in societySo would you say that a language and/or religion are pre-conditions to having legitimate status as a countryman? Do you need to speak English to be English? This hasn't yet been answered. If so, then one must appeal to the primacy of a majority ethnicity, making the ethnos the determining factor, or axis, on which the nation must function. The breaking of the social contract is a breaking of loyalty to the ethnos.
>I do not knowI've told you multiple times that the UK was created 1 May, 1707, so you ought to know by now.
Lot of word games in the thread today :D
Lets be honest there is obvi a population of indigenous people to England/scotland/wales/Ireland, you either A)Think thats important to stick around or B)Don't
No need for all this longtext mumbo jumbo.
>>2906051What does speaking English have to do with an ethno-majority or whatever you're saying, am I english for speaking it ? Is it my ethnicity now because of language ? Is speaking English in your genes ? (I don't live in an anglo country btw)
>One cannot contract membership of the tribe by being born within the geography of a colonyUntil they are declared honorary aryans obviously lol
>>2906065>What does speaking English have to do with an ethno-majorityThe English language comes from English people…
And if a majority of a country are White British, and speak English, then this has an obvious derivation. The French Nationalists during the French Revolution forced people to speak French rather than local dialects, since the identity of a nation has its civic commonness. If you have separate languages for separate people, are you a nation?
>>2906070>english language comes from english peopleIt was completely revised by a state entity multiple times during it's existence for the benefit of the ruling class, half the words are in French because that's what the Norman nobility spoke ffs
>>2906072>completely revised by a state entity multiple timesI firnly request any evidence for this claim.
English was spoken by the English peasants, obviously, so developed from within, not from without. Give proof that English was "completely revised" from the top-down. Please.
>>2906075Just look up what "middle English" is.
Here's some text in Old English, are you gonna honestly tell me you would be able to have a conversation with someone speaking like this any more than someone speaking Arabic?
"Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas. Syððan ærest wearð
feasceaft funden, he þæs frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah,
oðþæt him æghwylc þara ymbsittendra
ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan. þæt wæs god cyning.
ðæm eafera wæs æfter cenned,
geong in geardum, þone god sende
folce to frofre; fyrenðearfe ongeat
þe hie ær drugon aldorlease
lange hwile. Him þæs liffrea,
wuldres wealdend, woroldare forgeaf;
Beowulf wæs breme blæd wide sprang,
Scyldes eafera Scedelandum in.
Swa sceal geong guma gode gewyrcean,
fromum feohgiftum on fæder bearme,
þæt hine on ylde eft gewunigen
wilgesiþas, þonne wig cume,
leode gelæsten; lofdædum sceal
in mægþa gehwære man geþeon."
>>2906103Sources say that Middle English developed organically from contact with Scandanavians in a "democratic" manner, not at all top-down:
<Contact with Old Norse aided the development of English from a synthetic language with relatively free word order to a more analytic language with a stricter word order, as both Old English and Old Norse were synthetic languages with complicated inflections. Communication between Vikings in the Danelaw and their Anglo-Saxon neighbours resulted in the erosion of inflection in both languages; this effect was characterized as being of a "substantive, pervasive, and of a democratic" manner. […] The dramatic changes that happened in English contribute to the acceptance of the hypothesis that Old Norse had a more profound impact on the development of Middle and Modern English than any other language […] Early Middle English (1150–1350) has a largely Anglo-Saxon vocabulary (with many Norse borrowings in the northern parts of the country) but a greatly simplified inflectional system […] Gradually, the wealthy and the government Anglicised againhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_EnglishFrom the 15th century, the nobility began adopting English as a first language, following in the example of the citizens, by inter-marriage. So, English was not revised top-down "multiple times"; you're a liar. The article mentions that a standardised English written language was developed by state officials based on London dialects in the 15th century, to surpass the French and Latin vestiges of the old regime, but the spoken language was, and still is, a regional, organic phenomenon.
>>2906167What is left to get, from his own side of things?
>>2904564Pride cometh before the fall
>>2906167they will just have to become like the French Right-wing,populists that praise social democracy up until they have to vote on it (where then it's full deepthroat for business),it works wonder because nobody actually look at what is being voted on in the assembly
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