/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2895841
>Loses against his own strawman
/pol/tards really are pathetic

>>2895841
Is that video real?
Animal cruelty.

>>2895520
I think it's pretty funny going on about scientific socialism, but only look at 19th century thinkers about it. No evolutionary biologist is going to study Darwin in depth because that shit is dated as fuck. There was so much these people just didn't know. Whenever Marx or Engels wrote about historical stuff it is laughably incorrect by today's standard. That does not mean youtube ro dismiss there ideas and the discoveries they made, but to just keep repeating what they said is just full retardomode. You can use their work to build upon, not to just repeat it ad nauseam, larp as a christian if you want to do that, not a scientist.

>>2895853
In the case of individuals with mental health issues who are workers, they too must be disciplined—just like other workers—to work collectively within a socialist economy that requires labor discipline; Communist Party members must also be disciplined. It should be noted that labor discipline is essential to consolidate the dictatorship of the proletariat and to prepare a collective socialist economy independent of capitalists, thereby facilitating the abolition of that class without complications.

Nevertheless, the elderly and the disabled are a social responsibility of society as a whole—not merely of the family or the individual—as reflected in Marx's statement in "The Programme of the Parti Ouvrier":
>>2895436
<7. Responsibility of society for the old and the disabled;

<Karl Marx and Jules Guesde, 1880, The Programme of the Parti Ouvrier

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/05/parti-ouvrier.htm

>>2895885
This is just thinly veiled conservative utilitarianism.

>>2895844
You have PDS

>>2895853
If you cant work you are

>>2895853
Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and fix your schizophrenia by working in the factory 60h/week!

>>2895894
Let's see an example of discipline needed by workers in a socialist economy:

<Let us take by way of example a cotton spinning mill. The cotton must pass through at least six successive operations before it is reduced to the state of thread, and these operations take place for the most part in different rooms. Furthermore, keeping the machines going requires an engineer to look after the steam engine, mechanics to make the current repairs, and many other labourers whose business it is to transfer the products from one room to another, and so forth. All these workers, men, women and children, are obliged to begin and finish their work at the hours fixed by the authority of the steam, which cares nothing for individual autonomy. The workers must, therefore, first come to an understanding on the hours of work; and these hours, once they are fixed, must be observed by all, without any exception. Thereafter particular questions arise in each room and at every moment concerning the mode of production, distribution of material, etc., which must be settled by decision of a delegate placed at the head of each branch of labour or, if possible, by a majority vote, the will of the single individual will always have to subordinate itself, which means that questions are settled in an authoritarian way. The automatic machinery of the big factory is much more despotic than the small capitalists who employ workers ever have been. At least with regard to the hours of work one may write upon the portals of these factories: Lasciate ogni autonomia, voi che entrate! [Leave, ye that enter in, all autonomy behind!]

<If man, by dint of his knowledge and inventive genius, has subdued the forces of nature, the latter avenge themselves upon him by subjecting him, in so far as he employs them, to a veritable despotism independent of all social organisation. Wanting to abolish authority in large-scale industry is tantamount to wanting to abolish industry itself, to destroy the power loom in order to return to the spinning wheel.

<Let us take another example — the railway. Here too the co-operation of an infinite number of individuals is absolutely necessary, and this co-operation must be practised during precisely fixed hours so that no accidents may happen. Here, too, the first condition of the job is a dominant will that settles all subordinate questions, whether this will is represented by a single delegate or a committee charged with the execution of the resolutions of the majority of persona interested. In either case there is a very pronounced authority. Moreover, what would happen to the first train dispatched if the authority of the railway employees over the Hon. passengers were abolished?

<Works of Frederick Engels, 1872, On Authority

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm

Now with Lenin during the civil war to complete the revolution:

<It goes without saying that this question has another side to it. The corrupting influence of high salaries—both upon the Soviet authorities (especially since the revolution occurred so rapidly that it was impossible to prevent a certain number of adventurers and rogues from getting into positions of authority, and they, together with a number of inept or dishonest commissars, would not be averse to becoming “star” embezzlers of state funds) and upon the mass of the workers—is indisputable. Every thinking and honest worker and poor peasant, however, will agree with us, will admit, that we cannot immediately rid ourselves of the evil legacy of capitalism, and that we can liberate the Soviet Republic from the duty of paying an annual “tribute” of fifty million or one hundred million rubles (a tribute for our own-backwardness in organising country-wide accounting and control from below ) only by organising ourselves, by tightening up discipline in our own ranks, by purging our ranks of all those who are “preserving the legacy of capitalism”, who “follow the traditions of capitalism”, i.e., of idlers, parasites and embezzlers of statefunds (now all the land, all the factories and all the railways are the “state funds” of the Soviet Republic). If the class-conscious advanced workers and poor peasants manage with the aid of the Soviet institutions to organise, become disciplined, pull themselves together, create powerful labour discipline in the course of one year, then in a year’s time we shall throw off this “tribute”, which can be reduced even before that . . . in exact proportion to the successes we achieve in our workers’ and peasants’ labour discipline and organisation. The sooner we ourselves, workers and peasants, learn the best labour discipline and the most modern technique of labour, using the bourgeois experts to teach us, the sooner we shall liberate ourselves from any “tribute” to these specialists.

<Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, 1918, The Immediate Tasks of the Soviet Government

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/mar/x03.htm

There is no conservatism in my position. I am against giving repressive power to the bourgeois state, but this stems from my understanding that any repressive power given to the bourgeois state will be used against workers and communists who attempt to organize themselves in service of the supremacy of the proletariat class. Therefore, giving repressive power to the bourgeois state goes against the communist cause.

Giving power to the dictatorship of the proletariat to suppress its enemies, discipline workers for collective work, and consolidate this dictatorship of the proletariat to facilitate socialist construction is necessary.

>>2894938
Well, the litmus test of normalcy in society is being able to hold down a job, so if they're in a mental asylum their fate would most likely be homelessness

>>2895853
>>2895894
Just report him anon instead of feeding him (you)'s.

>>2895978
The issue of mental hospitals does not alter my position that the dictatorship of the proletariat has the right to suppress opposition and spread revolutionary terror to defend the supremacy of the proletarian class—the revolutionary agent—where deregulation, privatization, bourgeois individualism, libertarianism, or obstacles denying proletarian supremacy are not tolerated.

I support re-education for everyone, including fellow workers who lack class consciousness or harbor antisocial tendencies—such as fostering prejudices or refusing solidarity with workers worldwide and fraternity with all nations—which are essential for abolishing private property, the anarchy of production, and social classes. Why, then, should I tolerate the destructive tendencies of the lumpenproletariat—a group liable to be co-opted by capitalists to sabotage the dictatorship of the proletariat—if they are not subjected to intervention?

Denying the supremacy of the proletarian class and rejecting socialist economic planning constitutes treason and is intolerable.

>>2895978
This is my answer to you.
>>2895997

Remember Ken Kesey was CIA.
Helping our mentally disabled neighbors that are unable to reason is a positive thing.
They can be treated then taught to work.
Similar to Xinjiang vocational schools. They told peoplenthat blowing shit up is bad then taught them skills

>>2896028
>They can be treated then taught to work.
What if they can't be taught to work?

>Similar to Xinjiang vocational schools. They told peoplenthat blowing shit up is bad then taught them skills
Not comparable at all.

>>2895997
fuck off delusional nerd, nobody wants to be in your poverty worshiping circlejerk. you'll get a bullet in your head long before then.

>>2896036
<He who does not work, neither shall he eat!
Vladimir Lenin

>>2896045
OK guess I will let my demented grandma and my autistic cousin just starve to death.

>>2896049
>demented grandma
Old people die anon, it’s what they do. That said under a DotP she would depending on the value of her labor be given a modest pension in her twilight years
>autistic cousin
And arbitrary designation that denotes a mixture of chemically induced retardation and general bratty and antisocial behavior on the higher functioning levels. Retardism in general will basically be a non-issue once Bog Pharma is out of the picture, and those categorized as “autistic” who have the mental and physical capacity to work but shirk their responsibilities will be given reeducation

>>2896037
Whether I live or die is irrelevant; serving the supremacy of the proletarian class by adhering to the principles of scientific socialism is enough for me. I will continue to fight against opportunism and any attempt to deny the social responsibility of caring for the needs of workers, the elderly, and the disabled.

>>2896045
>>2896049
>>2896066
Again, I must intervene to remind society of its obligation to care for the elderly and disabled.

<ARTICLE 120. Citizens of the U.S.S.R. have the right to maintenance in old age and also in the case of sickness or loss of capacity to work.

<This right is ensured by the extensive development of social insurance of workers and employees at state expense, free medical service for the working people and the provision of a wide network of health resorts for the use of the working people.

<J. V. Stalin, 1936, Constitution (Fundamental law) of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, With Ammendments and Additions adopted by the First, Second, Third, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Sessions of the Supreme Soviet of the U.S.S.R, Chapter X : Fundamental Rights and Duties of Citizens

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1936/12/05.htm

Another quote with Lenin:

<8) Full social insurance of workers:

<a) for all forms of wage-labour;

<b) for all forms of disablement, namely, sickness, injury, infirmity, old age, occupational disease, child-birth, widowhood, orphanhood, and also unemployment, etc.

<c) all insurance institutions to be administered entirely by the insured themselves;

<d) the cost of insurance to be borne by the capitalists;

<e) free medical and medicinal aid under the control of self-governing sick benefit societies, the management bodies of which are to be elected by the workers.

<V. I. Lenin, Materials Relating to the Revision of the Party Programme, Chapter 4 Draft of Revised Programme

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/reviprog/ch04.htm

Now with Marx:

<Let us take, first of all, the words "proceeds of labor" in the sense of the product of labor; then the co-operative proceeds of labor are the total social product.

<From this must now be deducted: First, cover for replacement of the means of production used up. Second, additional portion for expansion of production. Third, reserve or insurance funds to provide against accidents, dislocations caused by natural calamities, etc.

<These deductions from the "undiminished" proceeds of labor are an economic necessity, and their magnitude is to be determined according to available means and forces, and partly by computation of probabilities, but they are in no way calculable by equity.

<There remains the other part of the total product, intended to serve as means of consumption.

<Before this is divided among the individuals, there has to be deducted again, from it: First, the general costs of administration not belonging to production. This part will, from the outset, be very considerably restricted in comparison with present-day society, and it diminishes in proportion as the new society develops. Second, that which is intended for the common satisfaction of needs, such as schools, health services, etc. From the outset, this part grows considerably in comparison with present-day society, and it grows in proportion as the new society develops. Third, funds for those unable to work, etc., in short, for what is included under so-called official poor relief today.

<Karl Marx, 1875, Critique of the Gotha Programme, Chapter I

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm

Did you notice what is written here? "Funds for those unable to work," therefore it is society's obligation to care for the elderly and disabled, but they will not be independent of the supremacy of the proletariat class and the intervention of organizations that serve the supremacy of the proletariat, the revolutionary party, and the dictatorship of the proletariat.

>>2896066
Alright, considering your deeply antisocial and misanthropic behavior you would get shot on day one Mr ignoramus. >>2896076
Fyi If I wanted to read posts like that i would just read marxist.org.

I am wondering one thing however, what motivates you to see the dictatorship of the proletariat to come in to fruition? Assuming you are not just a bot.

>>2896092
that guy is a bot. he just spams marxists.org

>>2896105
>that guy is a bot. he just spams marxists.org

That automatically makes him one of the best posters on leftypol

>>2896092
I pursue class interests shared with workers worldwide so that the proletariat may achieve political supremacy. I do not believe in class conciliation, nor do I harbor illusions about the nature of the state—an entity historically formed by the irreconcilable antagonisms of a class-based society.

For a society to be rationally organized, social equality is essential; therefore, private property, the anarchy of production, and social classes must be abolished to allow for the national planning of a socialist economy, free from the irrational influences fostered by a class-based society. Prejudices lose their meaning and force as socialist culture develops within the superstructure of a socialist economy.

All of this depends on other working-class elements acting upon their shared interests with the organized proletariat—acting as a class to establish the dictatorship of the proletariat, socialize the economy, and overthrow the bourgeois state. My class interests stand in opposition to those of the bourgeoisie, landowners, speculators, and the agents who uphold the bourgeois state and the capitalist mode of production.

>>2896105
I adhere to the principles of scientific socialism, citing sources and providing reference links to explain my reasoning and encourage others to develop class consciousness and study socialist theory with conviction. Eventually, observers will recognize the consistency in the texts I cite—texts that stand against opportunistic groups clinging to bourgeois individualism, resentment, abstract sentimentality, tradition, apologetics for class conciliation, apathy, chauvinism, jingoism, and the subordination of socialist theory to spontaneity. Nor must we overlook the apologists for imperialist capitalism who employ rhetoric about "freedom" and "democracy" to avoid the anti-imperialist imperative of cutting off loans, arms, and aid to the foreign puppets of finance capital—puppets and apologists alike who must be combated to prevent the proletariat from being co-opted by the bourgeoisie.

I would actually prefer it if there were bots spreading my propaganda in defense of the principles of scientific socialism; unfortunately, I have to act manually to combat opportunists.

>>2896109
My actions are already yielding good results with this response.

>>2896076
>>2896141
>>2895937
>>2895839
Looks like we got yet another board schizo, anons.

>>2896109
Then just go read marxist.org ?
>>2896141
Lmao ok it's a bot for sure

>>2895106
Ok degenerate lumpedprole that refuses to work

>>2896157
He's just correct though? What's the problem with quoting Marx and Lenin exactly?

>>2896256
>He's just correct though
How? Are you legitimately retarded? He had a mega-spergout about Lumpens at the thought of mental health hospitals being a bit better.

>>2896036
The surplus labor the workers state collects can fund retirement homes.

why do leftists make saussages out of people?

Im so happy none of the people in this thread hold any real world position of authority. Genuine psychopathy masquerading as leftism.

>>2896241
I would not have been able to help the mentally sick person if I was a neet. How does your brain work even? Enlighten me.

>>2896587
Sure you do

>>2896587
Oh wait you're an autistic retard I'd better avoid sarcasm

You don't have a job

>>2896462
>Psychopathy
Thank you for calling
Inspiration from God is waning and is only temporarily present, after it wanes a person falls into madness.

People appear to be conduits during strange times, things that were impossible like psychicness, prophetic prediction, silent event witnessing remote viewing may become present.

Hatred from actual elements in governance and tech is a reality and that hatred may be revealed to different people.

If suppression is big enough you will find that even the king can be maddened by divinity, every person can be made to become crazy in some periods of time and these events exist in history.

Look as deep as you want, at the deepest point you will find that it is truly a deity, spending your entire lifetime and the lifetime of thousands of others to find that such an anomaly cannot be analyzed within the time we exist on earth can be used as evidence that at least the entity that does this is much more grand than we are.

>>2896028
>Similar to Xinjiang vocational schools. They told peoplenthat blowing shit up is bad then taught them skills
Dengoid try not to be a fucking islamophobe challenge (impossible)

Amtipsychiatric boomp

>>2900181
CIA-funded Wahhabism will be purged regardless of how high pitched your tantrum is baizuo.

>>2896241
>Ok degenerate lumpedprole that refuses to work
<Let's get rid of the rich to bring back slavery!
You first!

The Soviet Union was fairly successful until Stalin showed up and shat all over everything.

>>2895997
Yeah because a bunch of autists and queers are Los Zetas you absolute twit. Pimps and drug dealers are not the same thing as prostitutes and neets. Get fucked.

>>2906160
>CIA-funded Wahhabism will be purged regardless of how high pitched your tantrum is baizuo.
There is supposed to be a comma, you utter retard.

There is no evidence of any significant support of wahabbism among Uyghurs, lol. And even if there was, it's not a good reason to send the whole nation to "le vocational schools"

>>2895997
>I support re-education for everyone, including fellow workers who lack class consciousness or harbor antisocial tendencies—such as fostering prejudices or refusing solidarity with workers worldwide and fraternity with all nations—which are essential for abolishing private property, the anarchy of production, and social classes.
You make classes sound like natural order. I'm not going to lie, if some rightoid used you as proof for that and called you an economic sodomite, it would be pretty funny.

>>2906203
>it's not a good reason to send the whole nation to "le vocational schools"
it’s historically progressive

vs