Why is Soviet Union so popular autists and schizophrenics, despite they put all of them in mental hospitals?
Even the Ronald Reagan era in America and modern Russia treated them better.
Soviets saw them as degenerate lumpenproles that couldn’t work.
Damn, imagine all the BPD baddies you could rizz up there. You'd get stabbed at some point sure, but just imagine.
Who's that cool spooky clown guy?
>>2894946
Not when the asylums were cruel and repeatedly violated their patients
Weren't mental hospitals in general absolute hell until very recently when they became hell-lite?
>>2894978Yes.
The real answer for a lot of these people is community care and angagement.
>>2894988
Beating them and drugging them and leaving them in solitary confinement to eat shit food with no nutritional value is just going to make them worse. The other solution is to just kill them but that’s even worse.
>>2894991Why bother to reply to a /pol/ack who cannot even be bothered to come in disguise?
Just report him and move on anon.
every industrial society did this with the neurodivergent in those days, the soviet union, nazi germany, united states, britain, japan, all of them. the only reason they don't do it now is because there's too many of them. now the "sane" people are walling themselves off inside of institutions while the freaks are on the outside.
As Comrade Hitler showed us, Aktion T4 is the correct solution to the lumpen volkerabfalle problem. It's a shame that even the Nazis were too libbed out to let it continue.
>>2894991>The other solution is to just kill them but that’s even worse.Worse than Hell?
>>2895010>every industrial society did this with the neurodivergent in those days, the soviet union, nazi germany, united states, britain, japan, all of them.Corrected for you
>>2894978They are still hell here in Eastern Europe.
t. Institutionalized 3 times for different reasons
Them being "cushy and peaceful" is a 1st world only thing and even there its only like that in the voluntary ones.
Is it weird that schizos and autists like me?
I once played around with a mentally ill person and they felt like I was their salvation for some reason. Once I told the guy, that I am just me and I found him interesting, and he started crying.
>>2894938The goal of communists is to guide and organize the proletariat as the class that will lead other working classes to establish proletarian supremacy and overthrow the bourgeois state, thereby instituting the dictatorship of the proletariat. This process aims to socialize the economy—eliminating owner classes, private property, anarchic production, and social classes—in favor of national economic planning based on actual labor and the workers' needs. There is also a need to educate the masses and instill discipline in workers for collective labor so that the proletariat may assume power; counter-revolutionaries, agents serving to maintain and defend the bourgeois state and the bourgeoisie, as well as opportunists, saboteurs, and revisionists, must be punished, corrected, and re-educated should they surrender or be captured.
The lumpenproletariat tends toward reactionism; even Mao Zedong—a major revolutionary who held a less hostile view toward them—warned that they require Party intervention to become effective soldiers for the communist cause. Consequently, the lumpenproletariat cannot operate independently due to its anti-social tendencies and lack of access to the means of production. This lack of access hinders the development of class consciousness and drives them into a state of desperation, making them easily bribed and manipulated by the ruling class; furthermore, the lumpenproletariat may come to identify with bourgeois state institutions or seek to emulate the ruling class. For these reasons, the lumpenproletariat requires intervention by the proletarian people's militia and the Communist Party, alongside cooperation from the working masses and families, to re-educate these anti-social elements and instill the discipline necessary for them to act in concert toward the supremacy of the proletariat.
My position is based on class interests, not on pity, sympathy, or moralism.
>>2895116Are you saying that people with schizophrenia, BPD, whatever are lumpenproles and counter revolutionary?
>>2895116>organize the proletariat as the class that will lead other working classesbro what?
I recall reading that mental institutions being weaponized in the Soviet Union to a certain extent for political reasons. Were all those people in those institutions actually schizophrenics and autists? Maybe not. Is the carceral method the best way for society to take care of these individuals? No. Whether or not said mental hospitals can truly be done away with as with all other carceral instituions without greatly alleviating poor socio-economic conditions is up for debate.
>>2895159That depends. But if a lumpenproletarian with mental problems lacks the discipline to organize collectively with other workers, then he needs discipline; if he has antisocial behavior problems and does not act together for the supremacy of the proletariat, then he will have to receive re-education.
A person with mental problems is not the same case as a counter-revolutionary conspiring to serve capitalist imperialism, but this type of case will still have to receive re-education because privatizing a health problem is intolerable; bourgeois individualism cannot be allowed to prevail in the masses; the supremacy of the proletarian class must be maintained, and all other working classes need to act according to what they have in common with the proletariat.
The proletariat will be organized into its own workers' party independent of the bourgeoisie. The other working classes such as the intelligentsia, peasants and the petty bourgeois must act only with what they have in common for the supremacy of the proletarian class, the lumpenproletariat is no exception to this.
>>2895193Let's look at quotes that talk about the working classes with Engel:
<3. Proletarians, then, have not always existed?<No. There have always been poor and working classes; and the working class have mostly been poor. But there have not always been workers and poor people living under conditions as they are today; in other words, there have not always been proletarians, any more than there has always been free unbridled competitions.[…]
<6. What working classes were there before the industrial revolution?<The working classes have always, according to the different stages of development of society, lived in different circumstances and had different relations to the owning and ruling classes.
<In antiquity, the workers were the slaves of the owners, just as they still are in many backward countries and even in the southern part of the United States.
<In the Middle Ages, they were the serfs of the land-owning nobility, as they still are in Hungary, Poland, and Russia. In the Middle Ages, and indeed right up to the industrial revolution, there were also journeymen in the cities who worked in the service of petty bourgeois masters. Gradually, as manufacture developed, these journeymen became manufacturing workers who were even then employed by larger capitalists.
<Frederick Engels, 1847, The Principles of Communismhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htmHave you forgotten what is written in the communist manifesto?
<The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only: 1. In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality. 2. In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole.
<The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement.
<The immediate aim of the Communists is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848)https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm >>2895116Are you ware that you just called the whole board counter-revolutionary?
>>2895250
> complains about antisocial people> proceeds to be an antisocial that thinks you can "reeducate schizephrenia"When I get to this board I often realize why so many people hate (a certain brand of) communists with a passion.
>>2895288Most people here are very stupid and out of touch with basic common sense things yes
>>2895272If you adhere to the principles of scientific socialism and do not oppose the supremacy of the proletariat—organized as a class within its own revolutionary socialist party to abolish private property, the anarchy of production, and social classes—then I see no issue; however, denying this and opposing communists leading the working masses to overthrow the bourgeois state during a revolutionary situation is a different matter.
A communist can be a proletarian, a petty-bourgeois, a member of the intelligentsia, a peasant, a lumpenproletarian, or even a bourgeois; however, a bourgeois communist must accept the abolition of their own social class and the supremacy of the proletariat. Conversely, other working classes cannot remain independent of the proletariat; doing so leads to opportunism and individualistic fantasies that inevitably result in co-optation by the bourgeoisie.
>>2895288Unlike you, I do not view re-education negatively. I myself would accept re-education to improve my discipline and organize better with other workers in order to serve the communist cause and uphold the supremacy of the proletariat. I would say that you should watch less capitalist propaganda that shapes your prejudices about tools that can be used by the dictatorship of the proletariat and its revolutionary workers' party, where if you deny this you are only demonstrating weakness that will be exploited by the ruling class.
>>2895272>Are you ware that you just called the whole board counter-revolutionary?a time honored tradition on leftypol. each one of us is the only true communist, you see.
>>2895116Disability leeching lumpenprole here
Wheres my bribe? This miserable amount of cash i get monthly isn't cutting it, jack
>>2895403The lumpenproletariat does not need to be directly bribed. Because they lack contact with the means of production, lumpenproletarians can easily develop flawed, individualistic views of society and the bourgeois state; furthermore, failing to develop class consciousness, they can easily be co-opted by the bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie need only pay a few public relations agents and propagandists to infiltrate and build communities that cultivate reactionary and liberal ideas—thereby manipulating lumpenproletarians (who are already trapped within the cultural hegemony of bourgeois ideology) into serving the ruling class—often for free.
I would also say that the bourgeoisie could encourage bourgeois individualism in the lumpenproletariat, antisocial behaviors to emulate the ruling class, not building solidarity with the workers of the world, seeing them as enemies and competitors, encouraging apathy and a lack of discipline to organize with other workers if the lumpenproletariat lacks the discipline to be exploited by the bourgeoisie.
>>2895250What are you blathering on about? We were talking about mental institutions.
>>2895250What does this have to do concretely with Soviet asylums?
>>2895420that guy isn't real. he just spams quotes from marxists.org
>>2895420But everything can be resolved through re-education; sometimes an individual needs more education, class consciousness, or discipline, or requires treatment for health issues. Privatizing a problem is unacceptable to me, but whatever the dictatorship of the proletariat decides to uphold the supremacy of the proletarian class is acceptable to me, provided it does not betray the principles of scientific socialism.
I attach no importance to morality; I accept any sacrifice to socialize the economy and serve the supremacy of the proletarian class.
I follow what is written in the quotes from Marx and Engels:
<The French socialist workers, in adopting as the aim of their efforts the political and economic expropriation of the capitalist class and the return to community of all the means of production, have decided, as a means of organization and struggle, to enter the elections with the following immediate demands:[…]
<B. Economic Section[…]
<7. Responsibility of society for the old and the disabled;
<Karl Marx and Jules Guesde, 1880, The Programme of the Parti Ouvrierhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/05/parti-ouvrier.htmAs you can see, I do not tolerate privatization, libertarianism, or any advocacy in that direction, just as I do not tolerate attachment to social constructs created by class society. Excuses for denying the supremacy of the proletarian class are unacceptable to me and will be opposed by me. The state is an instrument for one class to oppress another, born of the irreconcilability of antagonisms in a class society. The proletariat, organized as a class in a distinct party independent of the bourgeoisie, has the right to suppress all those who deny the supremacy of the proletarian class in order to socialize the economy, abolish private property, abolish the anarchy of production, and abolish social classes, so as to plan the socialized economy on a national scale.
>>2895427Soviet asylums fit what I consider a form of re-education; rejecting re-education is unacceptable unless you propose another type of it. To me, rejecting re-education means denying the dictatorship of the proletariat the power to suppress its enemies, and denying that workers need to be disciplined—something necessary to achieve full communism once global socialist hegemony is established.
>>2895416I dunno, but to me you're describing the post-Protestant working class more than any welfare scrounger I know. Sure we are a bit anti-social but we all hate the system. None of this bootstraps crap
>>2895436>I>I>I>INobody cares. This is an anonymous imageboard. Not your blog.
>>2895320Yeah I know but the degree of it is almost aweinducing, just look at him go, deeply antisocial behavior and completely disconnected from anything
>>2895436>But everything can be resolved through re-educationis this satire or are you really this incapable of listening to yourself when you talk?
>>2895520>you can't do things today the same way they were done in the 20th Centurywrong
>>2895520Because they’re unserious LARPers who live in an online fantasy world.
Because the URSS is dead, so you can just take all the good and throw all the bad off a cliff and simply ignore it.
Antipsychiatry needs to be incorporated into mainstream leftist thought
>>2895709not unless you come up with alternative.
>>2895718Community support, make psych meds and therapy free, and programs to help these people achieve and majntain financial independence, state sponsored clubs where these people can gather and socialize with each other and spend time in nature with trained professionals that talk to them like humans in a comfortable environment. Massive emphasis on up to date and proven therapy methods over medication. Make diagnoses descriptive instead of prescriptive. Any medication, if absolutely necessary must be only prescribed on a strict case by case basis. No more standardized blanket-treatment. Free counseling for families of mentally ill individuals and awareness and education campaigns about mental ilnesses in schools. Massive efforts for complete destigmatization.
>>2895721I deeply believe the supression of dissent in the USSR did more harm than good. I dont buy that it would lead to a counter-revolution (it happened regardless). In fact, i believe that it would allow the left to criticize the party and influence it to revert back to the original marxism and push back against revisionists. I might be completely wrong but reading the history of the USSR I am more and more convinced of this.
>>2895739So even more gatekeeping of medication even though medication is the best solution for many people? How are you going to help a schizophrenic through therapy alone? Not saying it shouldn't be part of the solution but these drugs work.
>>2895520Hoxha was the greatest larp of the century by denouncing Mao as "revisionist" when he was in fact just advancing the science of Marxism to the next stage. It would be like calling the guy who discovered subatomic particles "revisionist" just because it was previously thought that atoms were the smallest particle possible.
Also cute Tomoko, here's another one.
>>2895753I literally said make them free and more effective through personalized pharmacotheraphy regimes when necessary. Did you not read my post at all?
>>2895753schizo drugs work by lobotomizing you and limiting your capacities as a person. people are medicalized enough already
>>2895758100%. Im in the process of tapering off of medication completely.
>>2895739So even more gatekeeping of medication even though medication is the best solution for many people? How are you going to help a schizophrenic through therapy alone? Not saying it shouldn't be part of the solution but these drugs work.>>2895755
>Massive emphasis on up to date and proven therapy methods over medication. Make diagnoses descriptive instead of prescriptive. Any medication, if absolutely necessary must be only prescribed on a strict case by case basis. No more standardized blanket-treatment.The effect of what you are proposing here is to limit access to medication.
>>2895760Oh wow, what a shocker.
>>2895758I don't have schizophrenia but if there was a pill that would stop me hearing voices, having hallucinations, and believing that everyone was out to get me, I would take it. What kind of life can an unmedicated schizophrenic have?
>>2895768
The USSR after Stalin was not AES tho.
>>2895760Can't wait to see our next newly minted ANTIFA super soldier direct action assassin in action in the next month. Are you going to attack Trump?
>>2895762I am actually begging you to reread my post. Im not against medication. I want to make them more acessible if anything.
>Oh wow, what a shockerNiga they have killed me inside. I can barely function on them and can never feel joy or happiness and they are taking toll on my work performance.
>>2895772I am not a Westerner and i left crime behind.
>>2895762>I don't have schizophrenia but if there was a pill that would stop me hearing voices, having hallucinations, and believing that everyone was out to get me, I would take it. What kind of life can an unmedicated schizophrenic have?Well the tradeoffs are pretty severe. You'll get fat and become barely capable of thought or feeling due to the sedative effects of antipsychotic, and that's the best case scenario where the meds actually work, which requires you to go through a trial and error process with a shrink. Coping with community support and regular therapy is much better, lonely schizos on meds often feel suicidal and out of options.
>>2895768Another leftyteen larping as a post-soviet boomer ex cop
>>2895778>I am actually begging you to reread my post. Im not against medication. I want to make them more acessible if anything.ok fine, maybe, but I have seen where this rhetoric goes, in my country (UK) the govt/media wants to take away the adhd meds that actually make me functional because of some culture war fantasy scare
>Niga they have killed me inside. I can barely function on them and can never feel joy or happiness and they are taking toll on my work performance.ok, maybe try another one? obviously its your choice but to me the downsides are so bad it's crazy to just try to stop taking anything
>>2895783how is therapy going to stop someone seeing things that aren't there though?
>>2895784Ibliterally have adhd and psych meds are making it worse because they bring my dopamime down even further. My end goal is quitting them and gettimg on concerta so i can experience life for the first time.
>>2895787wouldn't you be pissed if you had to do a bunch of therapy bullshit you didn't want to do before you can get on adhd meds though?
>>2895789Theres no reason for that to be the case. Those can be done in parrallel.
>>2895507Severe autism i think.
>>2895784>how is therapy going to stop someone seeing things that aren't there though?uygha you clearly know
NOTHING about anything you're talking about why do you even have strong opinions on these things?
fuck off.
>>2895507Let's see what Marx, Lenin and Mao Zedong wrote about the lumpenproletariat to demonstrate to you that they are a dangerous class with destructive and anti-social tendencies that can descend into reactionaryism as tools of the bourgeoisie easily without intervention from the revolutionary party and communists to keep them aligned in serving the supremacy of the proletariat with discipline:
<The “dangerous class”, [lumpenproletariat] the social scum, that passively rotting mass thrown off by the lowest layers of the old society, may, here and there, be swept into the movement by a proletarian revolution; its conditions of life, however, prepare it far more for the part of a bribed tool of reactionary intrigue.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848)https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm#007
<Undoubtedly, the war is corrupting people both in the rear and at the front; people who are working on war supplies are paid far above the rates, and this attracts all those who hid themselves to keep out of the war, the vagabond and semi-vagabond elements who are imbued with one desire, to “grab” something and clear out. But these elements are the worst that has remained of the old capitalist system and are the vehicles of all the old evils; these we must kick out, remove, and we must put in the factories all the best proletarian elements and form them into nuclei of future socialist Russia.
<Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Third All-Russia Congress Of Soviets Of Workers’, Soldiers’ And Peasants’ Deputies, January 10-18 (23-31), 1918, Report On The Activities Of The Council Of People’s Commissars, January 14(24)https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/jan/10.htm
<Apart from all these, there is the fairly large lumpen-proletariat, made up of peasants who have lost their land and handicraftsmen who cannot get work. They lead the most precarious existence of all […] One of China's difficult problems is how to handle these people. Brave fighters but apt to be destructive, they can become a revolutionary force if given proper guidance.
<Selected Works of Mao Tse-tung, Analysis of the Classes in Chinese Society, March 1926https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-1/mswv1_1.htm
<6. The Vagrants
<China's status as a colony and semi-colony has given rise to a multitude of rural and urban unemployed. Denied proper means of making a living, many of them are forced to resort to illegitimate ones, hence the robbers, gangsters, beggars and prostitutes and the numerous people who live on superstitious practices. This social stratum is unstable; while some are apt to be bought over by the reactionary forces, others may join the revolution. These people lack constructive qualities and are given to destruction rather than construction; after joining the revolution, they become a source of roving-rebel and anarchist ideology in the revolutionary ranks. Therefore, we should know how to remould them and guard against their destructiveness.
<Selected Works of Mao Tse-tung, The Chinese Revolution and the Chinese Communist Party, December 1939https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_23.htm#p3As you can see, the lumpenproletariat cannot possess any independence without the intervention of the proletariat, the Communist Party, and organizations that serve the supremacy of the proletariat. Antisocial behavior, the difficulty in developing class consciousness due to a lack of connection to the means of production, isolation from other workers, bourgeois individualism, and despair drive this class to be destructive toward itself and those around it; therefore, intervention is necessary, lest they be co-opted by the bourgeoisie.
Re-education is a more rational approach than retaliation for changing the behavior of antisocial elements as the proletariat moves to consolidate the dictatorship of the proletariat. I am serious when I say that re-education can resolve everything once the proletariat becomes the new ruling class—and it will also facilitate the communist revolution—but any action or sacrifice taken for the proletarian class to seize power and overthrow the bourgeois state is acceptable to me, provided it does not violate the principles of scientific socialism; to do so would, in my view, be a sign of opportunism.
>>2895839The trvth nvke that killed the shitlib lumpen coddlers. Antisocial behavior is rarely innate, and reeducation is the best tool for suppressing it
>>2895841
>Loses against his own strawman
/pol/tards really are pathetic
>>2895841
Is that video real?
Animal cruelty.
>>2895520I think it's pretty funny going on about scientific socialism, but only look at 19th century thinkers about it. No evolutionary biologist is going to study Darwin in depth because that shit is dated as fuck. There was so much these people just didn't know. Whenever Marx or Engels wrote about historical stuff it is laughably incorrect by today's standard. That does not mean youtube ro dismiss there ideas and the discoveries they made, but to just keep repeating what they said is just full retardomode. You can use their work to build upon, not to just repeat it ad nauseam, larp as a christian if you want to do that, not a scientist.
>>2895853In the case of individuals with mental health issues who are workers, they too must be disciplined—just like other workers—to work collectively within a socialist economy that requires labor discipline; Communist Party members must also be disciplined. It should be noted that labor discipline is essential to consolidate the dictatorship of the proletariat and to prepare a collective socialist economy independent of capitalists, thereby facilitating the abolition of that class without complications.
Nevertheless, the elderly and the disabled are a social responsibility of society as a whole—not merely of the family or the individual—as reflected in Marx's statement in "The Programme of the Parti Ouvrier":
>>2895436<7. Responsibility of society for the old and the disabled;
<Karl Marx and Jules Guesde, 1880, The Programme of the Parti Ouvrierhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/05/parti-ouvrier.htm >>2895885This is just thinly veiled conservative utilitarianism.
>>2895853If you cant work you are
>>2895853Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and fix your schizophrenia by working in the factory 60h/week!
>>2895894Let's see an example of discipline needed by workers in a socialist economy:
<Let us take by way of example a cotton spinning mill. The cotton must pass through at least six successive operations before it is reduced to the state of thread, and these operations take place for the most part in different rooms. Furthermore, keeping the machines going requires an engineer to look after the steam engine, mechanics to make the current repairs, and many other labourers whose business it is to transfer the products from one room to another, and so forth. All these workers, men, women and children, are obliged to begin and finish their work at the hours fixed by the authority of the steam, which cares nothing for individual autonomy. The workers must, therefore, first come to an understanding on the hours of work; and these hours, once they are fixed, must be observed by all, without any exception. Thereafter particular questions arise in each room and at every moment concerning the mode of production, distribution of material, etc., which must be settled by decision of a delegate placed at the head of each branch of labour or, if possible, by a majority vote, the will of the single individual will always have to subordinate itself, which means that questions are settled in an authoritarian way. The automatic machinery of the big factory is much more despotic than the small capitalists who employ workers ever have been. At least with regard to the hours of work one may write upon the portals of these factories: Lasciate ogni autonomia, voi che entrate! [Leave, ye that enter in, all autonomy behind!]
<If man, by dint of his knowledge and inventive genius, has subdued the forces of nature, the latter avenge themselves upon him by subjecting him, in so far as he employs them, to a veritable despotism independent of all social organisation. Wanting to abolish authority in large-scale industry is tantamount to wanting to abolish industry itself, to destroy the power loom in order to return to the spinning wheel.
<Let us take another example — the railway. Here too the co-operation of an infinite number of individuals is absolutely necessary, and this co-operation must be practised during precisely fixed hours so that no accidents may happen. Here, too, the first condition of the job is a dominant will that settles all subordinate questions, whether this will is represented by a single delegate or a committee charged with the execution of the resolutions of the majority of persona interested. In either case there is a very pronounced authority. Moreover, what would happen to the first train dispatched if the authority of the railway employees over the Hon. passengers were abolished?
<Works of Frederick Engels, 1872, On Authorityhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htmNow with Lenin during the civil war to complete the revolution:
<It goes without saying that this question has another side to it. The corrupting influence of high salaries—both upon the Soviet authorities (especially since the revolution occurred so rapidly that it was impossible to prevent a certain number of adventurers and rogues from getting into positions of authority, and they, together with a number of inept or dishonest commissars, would not be averse to becoming “star” embezzlers of state funds) and upon the mass of the workers—is indisputable. Every thinking and honest worker and poor peasant, however, will agree with us, will admit, that we cannot immediately rid ourselves of the evil legacy of capitalism, and that we can liberate the Soviet Republic from the duty of paying an annual “tribute” of fifty million or one hundred million rubles (a tribute for our own-backwardness in organising country-wide accounting and control from below ) only by organising ourselves, by tightening up discipline in our own ranks, by purging our ranks of all those who are “preserving the legacy of capitalism”, who “follow the traditions of capitalism”, i.e., of idlers, parasites and embezzlers of statefunds (now all the land, all the factories and all the railways are the “state funds” of the Soviet Republic). If the class-conscious advanced workers and poor peasants manage with the aid of the Soviet institutions to organise, become disciplined, pull themselves together, create powerful labour discipline in the course of one year, then in a year’s time we shall throw off this “tribute”, which can be reduced even before that . . . in exact proportion to the successes we achieve in our workers’ and peasants’ labour discipline and organisation. The sooner we ourselves, workers and peasants, learn the best labour discipline and the most modern technique of labour, using the bourgeois experts to teach us, the sooner we shall liberate ourselves from any “tribute” to these specialists.
<Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, 1918, The Immediate Tasks of the Soviet Governmenthttps://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/mar/x03.htmThere is no conservatism in my position. I am against giving repressive power to the bourgeois state, but this stems from my understanding that any repressive power given to the bourgeois state will be used against workers and communists who attempt to organize themselves in service of the supremacy of the proletariat class. Therefore, giving repressive power to the bourgeois state goes against the communist cause.
Giving power to the dictatorship of the proletariat to suppress its enemies, discipline workers for collective work, and consolidate this dictatorship of the proletariat to facilitate socialist construction is necessary.
>>2894938Well, the litmus test of normalcy in society is being able to hold down a job, so if they're in a mental asylum their fate would most likely be homelessness
>>2895853>>2895894Just report him anon instead of feeding him (you)'s.
>>2895978
The issue of mental hospitals does not alter my position that the dictatorship of the proletariat has the right to suppress opposition and spread revolutionary terror to defend the supremacy of the proletarian class—the revolutionary agent—where deregulation, privatization, bourgeois individualism, libertarianism, or obstacles denying proletarian supremacy are not tolerated.
I support re-education for everyone, including fellow workers who lack class consciousness or harbor antisocial tendencies—such as fostering prejudices or refusing solidarity with workers worldwide and fraternity with all nations—which are essential for abolishing private property, the anarchy of production, and social classes. Why, then, should I tolerate the destructive tendencies of the lumpenproletariat—a group liable to be co-opted by capitalists to sabotage the dictatorship of the proletariat—if they are not subjected to intervention?
Denying the supremacy of the proletarian class and rejecting socialist economic planning constitutes treason and is intolerable.
>>2895978This is my answer to you.
>>2895997>>2896028>They can be treated then taught to work. What if they can't be taught to work?
>Similar to Xinjiang vocational schools. They told peoplenthat blowing shit up is bad then taught them skillsNot comparable at all.
>>2895997fuck off delusional nerd, nobody wants to be in your poverty worshiping circlejerk. you'll get a bullet in your head long before then.
>>2896036<He who does not work, neither shall he eat!Vladimir Lenin
>>2896045OK guess I will let my demented grandma and my autistic cousin just starve to death.
>>2896049>demented grandmaOld people die anon, it’s what they do. That said under a DotP she would depending on the value of her labor be given a modest pension in her twilight years
>autistic cousin And arbitrary designation that denotes a mixture of chemically induced retardation and general bratty and antisocial behavior on the higher functioning levels. Retardism in general will basically be a non-issue once Bog Pharma is out of the picture, and those categorized as “autistic” who have the mental and physical capacity to work but shirk their responsibilities will be given reeducation
>>2896037Whether I live or die is irrelevant; serving the supremacy of the proletarian class by adhering to the principles of scientific socialism is enough for me. I will continue to fight against opportunism and any attempt to deny the social responsibility of caring for the needs of workers, the elderly, and the disabled.
>>2896045>>2896049>>2896066Again, I must intervene to remind society of its obligation to care for the elderly and disabled.
<ARTICLE 120. Citizens of the U.S.S.R. have the right to maintenance in old age and also in the case of sickness or loss of capacity to work.
<This right is ensured by the extensive development of social insurance of workers and employees at state expense, free medical service for the working people and the provision of a wide network of health resorts for the use of the working people.
<J. V. Stalin, 1936, Constitution (Fundamental law) of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, With Ammendments and Additions adopted by the First, Second, Third, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Sessions of the Supreme Soviet of the U.S.S.R, Chapter X : Fundamental Rights and Duties of Citizenshttps://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1936/12/05.htmAnother quote with Lenin:
<8) Full social insurance of workers:
<a) for all forms of wage-labour;
<b) for all forms of disablement, namely, sickness, injury, infirmity, old age, occupational disease, child-birth, widowhood, orphanhood, and also unemployment, etc.
<c) all insurance institutions to be administered entirely by the insured themselves;
<d) the cost of insurance to be borne by the capitalists;
<e) free medical and medicinal aid under the control of self-governing sick benefit societies, the management bodies of which are to be elected by the workers.
<V. I. Lenin, Materials Relating to the Revision of the Party Programme, Chapter 4 Draft of Revised Programmehttps://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/reviprog/ch04.htmNow with Marx:
<Let us take, first of all, the words "proceeds of labor" in the sense of the product of labor; then the co-operative proceeds of labor are the total social product.
<From this must now be deducted: First, cover for replacement of the means of production used up. Second, additional portion for expansion of production. Third, reserve or insurance funds to provide against accidents, dislocations caused by natural calamities, etc.
<These deductions from the "undiminished" proceeds of labor are an economic necessity, and their magnitude is to be determined according to available means and forces, and partly by computation of probabilities, but they are in no way calculable by equity.
<There remains the other part of the total product, intended to serve as means of consumption.
<Before this is divided among the individuals, there has to be deducted again, from it: First, the general costs of administration not belonging to production. This part will, from the outset, be very considerably restricted in comparison with present-day society, and it diminishes in proportion as the new society develops. Second, that which is intended for the common satisfaction of needs, such as schools, health services, etc. From the outset, this part grows considerably in comparison with present-day society, and it grows in proportion as the new society develops. Third, funds for those unable to work, etc., in short, for what is included under so-called official poor relief today.
<Karl Marx, 1875, Critique of the Gotha Programme, Chapter Ihttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htmDid you notice what is written here? "Funds for those unable to work," therefore it is society's obligation to care for the elderly and disabled, but they will not be independent of the supremacy of the proletariat class and the intervention of organizations that serve the supremacy of the proletariat, the revolutionary party, and the dictatorship of the proletariat.
>>2896066Alright, considering your deeply antisocial and misanthropic behavior you would get shot on day one Mr ignoramus.
>>2896076Fyi If I wanted to read posts like that i would just read marxist.org.
I am wondering one thing however, what motivates you to see the dictatorship of the proletariat to come in to fruition? Assuming you are not just a bot.
>>2896092that guy is a bot. he just spams marxists.org
>>2896105>that guy is a bot. he just spams marxists.orgThat automatically makes him one of the best posters on leftypol
>>2896092I pursue class interests shared with workers worldwide so that the proletariat may achieve political supremacy. I do not believe in class conciliation, nor do I harbor illusions about the nature of the state—an entity historically formed by the irreconcilable antagonisms of a class-based society.
For a society to be rationally organized, social equality is essential; therefore, private property, the anarchy of production, and social classes must be abolished to allow for the national planning of a socialist economy, free from the irrational influences fostered by a class-based society. Prejudices lose their meaning and force as socialist culture develops within the superstructure of a socialist economy.
All of this depends on other working-class elements acting upon their shared interests with the organized proletariat—acting as a class to establish the dictatorship of the proletariat, socialize the economy, and overthrow the bourgeois state. My class interests stand in opposition to those of the bourgeoisie, landowners, speculators, and the agents who uphold the bourgeois state and the capitalist mode of production.
>>2896105I adhere to the principles of scientific socialism, citing sources and providing reference links to explain my reasoning and encourage others to develop class consciousness and study socialist theory with conviction. Eventually, observers will recognize the consistency in the texts I cite—texts that stand against opportunistic groups clinging to bourgeois individualism, resentment, abstract sentimentality, tradition, apologetics for class conciliation, apathy, chauvinism, jingoism, and the subordination of socialist theory to spontaneity. Nor must we overlook the apologists for imperialist capitalism who employ rhetoric about "freedom" and "democracy" to avoid the anti-imperialist imperative of cutting off loans, arms, and aid to the foreign puppets of finance capital—puppets and apologists alike who must be combated to prevent the proletariat from being co-opted by the bourgeoisie.
I would actually prefer it if there were bots spreading my propaganda in defense of the principles of scientific socialism; unfortunately, I have to act manually to combat opportunists.
>>2896109My actions are already yielding good results with this response.
>>2896076>>2896141>>2895937>>2895839Looks like we got yet another board schizo, anons.
>>2896109Then just go read marxist.org ?
>>2896141Lmao ok it's a bot for sure
>>2895106Ok degenerate lumpedprole that refuses to work
>>2896157He's just correct though? What's the problem with quoting Marx and Lenin exactly?
>>2896256>He's just correct thoughHow? Are you legitimately retarded? He had a mega-spergout about Lumpens at the thought of mental health hospitals being a bit better.
>>2896036The surplus labor the workers state collects can fund retirement homes.
why do leftists make saussages out of people?
Im so happy none of the people in this thread hold any real world position of authority. Genuine psychopathy masquerading as leftism.
>>2896241I would not have been able to help the mentally sick person if I was a neet. How does your brain work even? Enlighten me.
>>2896587Oh wait you're an autistic retard I'd better avoid sarcasm
You don't have a job
>>2896462>PsychopathyThank you for calling
Inspiration from God is waning and is only temporarily present, after it wanes a person falls into madness.
People appear to be conduits during strange times, things that were impossible like psychicness, prophetic prediction, silent event witnessing remote viewing may become present.
Hatred from actual elements in governance and tech is a reality and that hatred may be revealed to different people.
If suppression is big enough you will find that even the king can be maddened by divinity, every person can be made to become crazy in some periods of time and these events exist in history.
Look as deep as you want, at the deepest point you will find that it is truly a deity, spending your entire lifetime and the lifetime of thousands of others to find that such an anomaly cannot be analyzed within the time we exist on earth can be used as evidence that at least the entity that does this is much more grand than we are.
>>2896028>Similar to Xinjiang vocational schools. They told peoplenthat blowing shit up is bad then taught them skillsDengoid try not to be a fucking islamophobe challenge (impossible)
Amtipsychiatric boomp
>>2900181CIA-funded Wahhabism
will be purged regardless of how high pitched your tantrum is baizuo.
>>2896241>Ok degenerate lumpedprole that refuses to work<Let's get rid of the rich to bring back slavery!You first!
The Soviet Union was fairly successful until Stalin showed up and shat all over everything.
>>2895997Yeah because a bunch of autists and queers are Los Zetas you absolute twit. Pimps and drug dealers are not the same thing as prostitutes and neets. Get fucked.
>>2906160>CIA-funded Wahhabism will be purged regardless of how high pitched your tantrum is baizuo.There is supposed to be a comma, you utter retard.
There is no evidence of any significant support of wahabbism among Uyghurs, lol. And even if there was, it's not a good reason to send the whole nation to "le vocational schools"
>>2895997>I support re-education for everyone, including fellow workers who lack class consciousness or harbor antisocial tendencies—such as fostering prejudices or refusing solidarity with workers worldwide and fraternity with all nations—which are essential for abolishing private property, the anarchy of production, and social classes.You make classes sound like natural order. I'm not going to lie, if some rightoid used you as proof for that and called you an economic sodomite, it would be pretty funny.
>>2906203>it's not a good reason to send the whole nation to "le vocational schools"it’s historically progressive
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