/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

If only you knew how bad things really are

Republika Srpska is basically Israel in the balkans and needs to be dismanteled

>thread about Serbia
>nobody is discussing the elections that were just announced

>>2910658
No? The only thing they have in common is Islamophobia.

>>2910673
you need to clue us in

>>2910711
Well it's a long story if you don't know the current political situation in Serbia. If you do, it's a surprise that there are going to be snap elections in the first place since Vucic/SNS popularity is down by a lot and it looks like they're going to lose. Due to how presidential elections work in Serbia (two round system), SNS would have lost them if they were the first or together, so SNS decided to just disband the parliament and have Vucic remain president, then transfer over to prime minister if they win the parliamentary elections (proportional system, with 3% threshold). They also went for the minimum allowed period between announcement and election day (45 days) so the election will be on 25 October.
On the opposition, there has controversy over whether the opposition parties should take part in the elections or just endorse the Student list. I'm probably forgetting some, but like 5 have endorsed it, 3 made one lib coalition, another 3 made another lib coalition and some others went into a conservative coalition. It's very likely that at least one of these three coalitions are going to fall below the threshold, maybe even all 3.

I'll try to give a QRD on the current political situation, but I find it hard to explain. There's been a protest movement since November 2024 that has been calling for elections since May 2025. It started as a response to the Novi Sad canopy collapse, which killed 16 people. It was initially started by opposition parties like several other protest movements during the Vucic era (all of them whimpered out after like a month or two). They blamed SNS and their corruption for the collapse and that has generally been the central theme of the protest movement. In my opinion this is true, but western leftists on the Internet seem to call it bullshit when corruption is protested. But I've heard that the term political corruption has a broader meaning in Serbian than in English, though I don't quite understand that.
Anyway, the protest movement was, after a few weeks, taken over by university students organized into meetings called plenums where any student of the faculty (universities in Serbia are divided into faculties, which are like departments but much more independent) could come to participate. The plenums formed and blockaded the faculties in Serbia one by one, until almost all the public university faculties were blockaded after a month or so.
The inciting incident for the first blockade was some SNS members (at least one of them was a council member from SNS for a municipality) attacked some students and professors of the Faculty of Dramatic Arts while they were doing a 14 minute traffic blockade (14 was the number of deaths of the canopy collapse at that point) in front of their faculty building. The other faculties' students joined to support them, but also generally because of the canopy collapse and dissatisfaction with Vucic/SNS.
Their demands were an investigation on whose fault the canopy collapse is, releasing documents regarding the renovation/reconstruction project on the train station (some were classified as state secrets), prosecuting those SNS members who attacked that blockade and increasing the education spending. SNS didn't want to do any of those. The students organized protests in various places and so on but SNS' only response was to release some unimportant documents, arrest some ministers (and later let them free) and promise to increase the education spending.
The plenums formed some organizational structures in order to coordinate between faculties and universities, and to make decisions outside of plenum meetings. At this point they were organizing a large protest per month, culminating in a huge protest on 15 March 2025, which was the biggest public gathering in Serbia since the Bulldozer revolution, or even bigger than that. There, during the protest, it appears some sound weapon or something like that was used from an unknown place, which almost caused a stampede.
Afterwards, there was a call for citizens to form their own municipality/town-based meetings called zbors to emulate the plenums. This was somewhat successful in some places, and those zbors would go on to organize their own protests too (though the student protests are always much larger).
Then in May 2025 the students decided to call for parliamentary elections to be held, where the student movement would participate by forming a list of non-student public figures without relation to political parties or public offices which they would ask to represent the student movement in the parliament. They decided against forming election coalitions with anyone and essentially asked the opposition parties to not participate.
In Summer 2025 there was like a week of constant blockades organized by plenums and zbors which saw a lot of police deployments, then a few weeks later there were a few more violent protests which saw some SNS property destruction and police beatings, then a few weeks later professors (who haven't been getting paid for a few months because the government cut their salaries essentially because of the student blockades) and some students started pushing for the ending of blockades. They were successful eventually and all blockades ended, and the whole academic year was then crammed into a few months. The student movement survived, but at a reduced level of activity.
Through out 2025 there were some small local elections that had to happen due to terms ending. They had fucked up schedules because of SNS' prior habit of spamming snap elections so they were only a few small elections at a time. Those ended up being held in a tense environment and followed throughout Serbia, even though nobody would normally care about them. SNS ended up winning all the important ones, but usually by a hair, even though they used to be places they won in a landslide.
So far 2026 has been less eventful than 2025, but the plenums and zbors mostly still exist in some form. The Student list, which the students said at the beginning of May 2025 would be ready in a few weeks, ended up being completed somewhere around the middle of 2026. Though its entire contents are still kept secret.

Now this post is already long as fuck even thought I skipped so many things, so I'll just write something short about the politics of the parties/coalitions which will appear in the elections.
Political programs and such aren't really important in Serbia. Since Vucic came to power in 2012/2014, Serbian politics is basically SNS/Vucic bragging about their dubious accomplishments while the opposition says that SNS/Vucic sucks. The Student list's program is unknown, except for a few tidbits they shared but even that is unknown if it's actually a part of the program because there was some infighting about those announcements (Novi Sad students did it but Belgrade students didn't want to, or something like that). Nobody really cares about SNS' program. One of the lib coalitions is going hard on being pro-EU (but the other one is pro-EU too I think?). SNS is of course also pro-EU (it was founded as a pro-EU offshoot of SRS) but those guys think SNS is not truly pro-EU because they're corrupt and power-hungry while the EU is sunshine and rainbows. Or something like that.
SPS (the Socialist Party of Serbia) is not a socialist party by the way. They're the second most important member of the coalition around SNS. Their popularity is seemingly still based on being Milosevic's party, the exception being when they got a short-lived popularity boost in 2022 which is thought to be because they were seen as more pro-Russian than SNS by SNS voters. By the way, SNS voters are (according to some polls) significantly less pro-EU than the general population, even though SNS is a pro-EU party. They have been falling apart lately, but they will probably manage to pass the 3% threshold.
The funny thing is that both SNS and the Student list are essentially both big tent parties and they both refuse to claim a clear geopolitical affiliation/leaning. While SNS is a pro-EU party, they maintain okay relations with Russia and they seem to have good relations with China, with Xi visiting Vucic and Vucic visiting Xi in the past 2 years. The Student movement does not seem to say anything ever regarding Russia and China, while their relationship with the EU is complicated. Officially they do not claim any leaning towards the EU and infamously EU flags are banned at student protests. However, the academic world is generally much more pro-EU than general population. The would-be Student list voters are also more pro-EU than the general population according to polls. And the Student list candidates are probably mostly pro-EU, due to university professors being very overrepresented on the list. There were also "student actions" involving the EU, the most famous being biking from Serbia to deliver a letter to the EP, but that was never approved by the Great Meeting of Delegates (the highest body of the student movement). However, it was not disavowed either, even though they usually have a policy of publicly disavowing people who claim to represent the student movement without approval.

>>2910884
Thanks for the effortpost king

>>2910884
I'll write an update post of some things that happened in the past few days, in case anyone cares. The most relevant thing is probably that one of the opposition lib coalitions fell apart. Two of three of the parties in that coalition had municipal branches entirely leave the party because of the decision to run instead of endorse the Student list, which caused the leadership of these parties to decide to leave the coalition, then the only party left decided to quit too.

The Student movement managed to collect signatures and get the Student list on the ballot without much issue. The only issue is that in several places public (and maybe private, not sure) notaries refused to work with the Student list. Many still did, so this just caused a (probably) unintentional publicity stunt, where there were videos of huge lines all over Serbia of people waiting to give their signature. They collected signatures for 2-3 days and submitted twice over the required amount without incident. SNS' submission was somewhat suspicious though, as they submitted a little over the required amount just a few hours after the Republic Electoral Commission published the forms.

Another thing that happened, which I'm not sure has any relevance, is concerning a conspiracy theory rightwing kind of party, led by a guy called Nestorovic. He is a medical doctor who gained fame among conspiracy theorists for denying COVID19 then later peddling other conspiracy theories. He ended up a significant factor in the 2023 Belgrade city assembly elections, where SNS had less votes than the opposition parties together, but neither side had a majority without Nestorovic's party. Nestorovic refused to form the city government with either, which led to a repeat election in 2024 where the opposition absurdly fumbled and gave SNS the win. I don't think his party is particularly relevant now, since not only did COVID19 stuff lose steam, but also his party split almost immediately after the parliament was formed. Nestorovic himself also lost credibility due to being seen as taking SNS' side. What happened is that his party (the one he formed after the split) refused his proposal to form an election coalition with the Movement of Socialists. This is another party whose name implies it's socialist but actually isn't. It's an offshoot of the long defunct JUL (Milosevic's wife's party) that is led by a guy called Vulin. I don't think they have a significant voterbase at all, and they're very clearly on SNS' side, being in SNS' election coalitions several times and Vulin being a minister in several SNS-led governments over the years. I don't think him and his party have any coherent politics, except I guess russophilia? Vulin has been rumored and reported by western media as having links with Putin and the FSB. I don't know how much of what they report is true, but he does seem to have some connections to the Russian government. He is also personally sanctioned by the USA. Anyway, I don't really know why would they want Vulin's party in the coalition, I see it only losing votes and potentially sinking the whole coalition below the threshold. Some people on the Internet are speculating that this is because he's too much of a toxic presence (in Western eyes?) for SNS' coalition, so they're forcing him in Nestorovic's coalition because he can't run alone or just with the Russian party (which is supposedly a minority party representing the Russian minority, but it consists of Serbs) again. So what happened after Nestorovic's party refused the proposal is that they claimed that Nestorovic disappeared and didn't reply to their phone calls, then after their party meeting they claimed that Nestorovic showed up with a bunch of SNS goons and forced through the proposal. This caused their vice president to publicly appeal to their voterbase not to vote for them. So I think this is just going to further their irrelevance.

>>2913795
There was more info about the Nestorovic stuff today. Apparently they were just straight up negotiating with Russia about what they have to do. Nestorovic claimed publicly that Russia told them to unite the right wing parties. There was also a short leaked video from their party meeting where they were arguing about a meeting some of them had with Andrej Vucic (Vucic's brother) and the Vulin issue, and in that video some guy says that they're ready to do "all that the Russians requested" but they just have to keep it for after the elections.
Based on that leak, there are speculations that Russia straight up asked them to help out Vulin politically, like letting him get a minister position or something like that. Though that doesn't make much sense to me, because ministers don't have to be in the parliament. Also, I don't know why would they ask Nestorovic's party (which might not even pass the threshold) to do that instead of asking SNS (which will control the parliament if the Student list loses)? I guess the only reason would be that SNS refused to do that for some reason but they're also fine with it if it's through Nestorovic. Maybe they think it's a bad look from the West's standpoint if they appoint Vulin themselves, but fine if it's through a fringe rightwing party they had to coalition with to get a majority in the parliament. Or maybe that speculation is bullshit and "all that the Russians requested" refers to something else.

whats with serbians online being massive nazi and ustase simps

>>2914474
Croats worship nazis.
Whats up with Bosnians being bitches?

>>2910651
>meme flag
openionings discardenings

>>2910884
>But I've heard that the term political corruption has a broader meaning in Serbian than in English, though I don't quite understand that.
I'm an ignorant American (although from a very corrupt and screwed-up part of it) but I think think it's an Eastern European and Balkans thing where corruption is a broader signifier for why their country is dysfunctional and rotted in a deeper way which requires rotor-rooting out the whole structure which everyone also sort of knows. Does that make sense? Maybe it doesn't but I've heard people from that part of the world talk in those terms. Like a feeling that you're not living in a proper country but are having to deal with the mafia or something.

>>2915255
>corruption is a culture thing instead of an economics thing
kys, ignorant burger

>>2914443
I was wrong about two thing here, the first being that he didn't say right wing parties but russophilic parties (yes he actually used that word) and he did not force through the coalition, but the purge of everyone who voted against the coalition. They did not end up forming the coalition anyway.

>>2914474
I don't think I've ever seen someone who identifies as a Serb simp for the ustase. The closest I've seen to ustase apologia that's common with Serbs online is that some anti-Yugoslav Serbs like to imply that the ustase are a natural consequence of forming Yugoslavia. As for nazis, there are definitely nazis here but I think it's less common than many other European countries.

>>2915208
Serbs aren't indigenous because there is no settling nation they would be indigenous against. The Ottomans don't count because they worked by converting parts of the local population. Also, until recently Bosnia didn't actually have a majority ethnicity. But at the last census the Bosniaks managed to get majority by a hair.

>>2915255
>Like a feeling that you're not living in a proper country but are having to deal with the mafia or something.
But isn't that a somewhat popular sentiment in the USA too? Especially after Epstein.
And it's not like there's no corruption in the West outside the USA. Capitalism is contradictory with the promises of liberal democracy, and symptoms of that can be seen as "corruption" usually.

>>2915605
>Serbs aren't indigenous because there is no settling nation they would be indigenous against
They are indigenous because they have been there because they aren't settlers, they were there before.

There has been some violent incidents in the past week. I guess the atmosphere is pretty tense now, but I'd say less tense than during summer 2025.
One incident was when the mayor of Belgrade broke the nose of a female council member of a Belgrade municipality. As far as I can tell, this happened completely randomly because they had a chance encounter on the street with the mayor while he was on drugs. The council member claims that she was walking with her husband when they encountered the mayor walking alone, then he recognized her and started shouting at them about how she brought people to protest in front of his house (as far as I know no such protest happened, I don't even think it's public knowledge where he lives) and then physically attacked them. The mayor was arrested and then released shortly afterwards, and the next day he claimed he never hit her, and Vucic claimed the mayor was in prison all night and that his drug test was negative. This is pretty ironic because for some reason SNS decided to have a big part of their campaign be presenting the "blockaders" (SNS' negative name for members and supporters of the student movement) as violent, and who want to rape Vucic and SNS supporters and beat SNS supporting women. The raping Vucic thing is about a anti-Vucic video/ad by Faculty of Dramatic Arts students where a dropped soap in prison is shown.
Then the next day there was an incident where SNS activists and Student list activists got in a fight in the street in Novi Sad. It started when the SNS activists came and tried to steal the banner from some Student list activists who were promoting their list on the street. There are speculations that SNS intentionally caused this incident because of the earlier incident with the mayor, and I think that's very likely the case. Afterwards the president of SNS held a press conference with an older woman who was one of the SNS activists who took part in that fight and was punched in the head. They talked about the violence of blockaders and showed her injuries and had her recount what supposedly happened.

Also, earlier than all that, Vucic resigned as president with a few months left in his last term. He said this is so he can campaign for the election, as the president isn't supposed to take part in political activities according to the constitution.

Today, Vucic debated a rock.

>>2927483
Did he win?

Inherent Serb retardation was such a gift to the west. They have managed to discredit countless political positions and tarnish the legacy of Yugoslavia.

>>2927618
This entire concept of le west is outdated. Serbia should be part of EU.

Thank you Serbia for Dejan Petkovic, one of Brazil's greatest idols. And also a lefty.

Братство са српским твинкови. Из Ирака с љубављу.

>>2910673
>>2910884
no one cares electoralism spectacle fag

>>2927616
The opinions on that question are polarized.

>>2927687
Bazirano.

>>2927688
It's politics. Vucic/SNS is going to lose power if the Student list wins, which is likely to happen. And that will have actual consequences on the political scene and government policy in Serbia.

>>2928006
Radko saved serbs from EU for a while

>>2928008
You mean Ratko? If you're talking about Bosnia, I don't think it's ever going to enter the EU with its fucked up political system. The only way I see it entering the EU is the EU wanting Bosnia for some reason and so having the High Representative force it through.
If you're talking about Serbia, then I don't think the Ratko funeral is going particularly relevant. I predict Bosniaks quietly returning the diplomatic staff they withdrew. Though for some reason Vucic is actually trying to use Ratko's funeral to claim to the EU and USA that he is fighting against right wing forces and falsely claiming that it was the biggest funeral in the history of Serbia (the actual biggest funeral was Tito's funeral, which held the record for the biggest funeral in the world until Mandela's funeral).

Regarding the views on the EU in Serbia, I already wrote about that in a post above. Basically, according to polls, there is slightly more people who want to enter the EU than not, but the number is always muddied by the "don't know" answers. A recent poll revealed that Student list voters are mostly in favor while SNS voters are mostly against. But the official standpoint of the two lists is the opposite, SNS being a pro-EU party while the Student movement refused to take either side for the Student list's program.
To expand on that, from what I've seen most people who are against the EU are against it because of geopolitical reasons (its affiliation with NATO and the West and against Russia), not for economics reasons. Meanwhile the people who are pro-EU seem to really want Schengen area membership, even though entering the EU won't automatically get Serbia in, and also there are non-EU members in it too. The pro-EU crowd also seems to believe it will just automatically revitalize the economy, which I find dubious. They also think someone like Vucic/SNS wouldn't be able to take power if Serbia was in the EU, ignoring the obvious example of Orban.
TLDR the discourse in Serbia about the EU is retarded.

>>2928032
Yes, Ratko funeral made Eurocrats really mad and probably offset EU membership of Serbia for like extra 10 years if they try.

>>2928039
I doubt both that the funeral had any effect (if I recall correctly, last year someone high-ranking in the EU threatened sanctions if Vucic went to Russia's Victory Day parade and nothing happened) and that Serbia's membership in the EU is going to happen anytime soon regardless of that.

>>2928053
How so? I only know of his 2 shitty videos on the Bosnian war. And if you didn't know, the Republic of Serbia and the Serb Republic (Republika Srpska) are two different places.
And I wouldn't call either neocrusader. In Serbia the war in Bosnia was sold as helping the Serbs there protect themselves from the Muslims (which was the name of the Bosniak ethnicity in Yugoslavia) and Croats. In Srpska there was more talk about ethnic superiority (how they were the cowards who converted during Turkish rule and such claims) or them literally being Turks. And Serb ultranationalists generally hate the Catholic church.
Serb ultranationalists in Serbia do have anti-muslim sentiment, but you can't exactly call them neocrusader, and it's not as widespread as hate based on nationality. Contrary to what Westerners claim on the Internet, the religion-based hate comes from ethnicity-based hate, not the other way around. It essentially stems from territorial disputes between national/ethnic groups in Bosnia and Kosovo.
As for the Catholic church hate, a decent chunk of ultranationalists believe in conspiracy theories about how the Vatican created the Yugoslav wars and made the West hate Serbia due to medieval-era political conflicts between the Vatican and Constantinople. They also seem to lump together protestant and catholic countries as influenced by the Vatican.

>>2928053
Yugoslavia broke the blockade against Iraq while islamic shitholes facilitated it

>>2928088
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_and_Montenegro
retard

>>2928047
The issue with this is that governments can be changed so it does not matter much what a single politician does or doesn't. On the other hand, masses giving a serb "hitler" honorific funeral will not be overlooked. Anyway I think the EU expansion will be stalled for quite some time due to Eurosceptic parties/politicians taking over and reconsidering their contributions to the union.

Vuvic is now flying in D-grade American conservative influencers 💀

>>2937038
IDK fam she doesn't sound or look particularly American to me. I don't think the average American even knows what Kosovo is or can point to Serbia on a map. She's probably a Russian infiltrator.

>>2937063
She gusano

The Trumpoid-Zigger puppet regime that has imposed a boomer dictatorship and oppressed the youth for so long shall be unseated in 3 days. Heres hoping that the radicalism of the young generation perseveres and manages to pressure the shitlib amalgamation that is the student list into turning leftward in a corrective move, hopefully to be assisted by members of the list itself that had to hide their power level until they get into power. Something WILL happen.

>>2937063
>IDK fam she doesn't sound or look particularly American to me
she's a literally who but she got semi-known over here for making retarded ads when she was running for congress

>>2937166
Yeah this convinced me she's a Russian plant only Russians give this much of a shit about gay people even Trump has not rolled back gay marriage. If she were really American she would know this bu default and not have created such a weird ad.

>>2937174
to be fair in america we still say gay when we mean annoying but yeah she is actually homophobic. also very zionist so she could be mossad plant. they love using attractive young women as conservative candidates.

>>2937086
Okay so you admit that they are shitlibs. At that point why not choose the lesser evil, which is Vucic, objectively. Why not try to push his coalition to the left? Why choose the force that will try to destroy Serbia's relations with any non-EU country purely out of slavish (heh) pro-European cuck mentality while not doing anything about the domination of Western capital or really anything tangible, as you yourself have admitted that the opposition doesn't have any coherent ideas. The least worst outcome is that the libs become "corrupt", as in they start building another national capitalist regime out of self preservation and become the next muh corrupt hybrid regime, just like Fidesz, Georgian Dream and SNS itself.

Also when your entire ideology is based on whining about corrupt construction companies because you think that the state shouldn't send too much public-private partnerships, you are actually just wishing for monetarist austerity over Keynesianism.

CPAC will be hosted Belgrade, Serbia in November of 2026. The announcement was made 6 days before elections here. Meaning Republican party supports Vucic admnistration. Vucic aswell will be conventions host
.

>>2910410
>Balkan country in Southeast/Central Europe, bordering Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia & Herzegovina, and Croatia.
FTFY

>>2938402
nothing more progressive than supporting us military protectorate

>>2937709
>why not choose the lesser evil, which is Vucic, objectively
He's a bigger evil
>Why not try to push his coalition to the left?
Literally impossible, conservatism is ingrained into his coalitions and his voters dna
>Why choose the force that will try to destroy Serbia's relations with any non-EU country purely out of slavish (heh) pro-European cuck mentality
The Student list has no opinions on the topic of EU, which Serbia will never join regatdless
>The least worst outcome is that the libs become "corrupt", as in they start building another national capitalist regime out of self preservation and become the next muh corrupt hybrid regime, just like Fidesz, Georgian Dream and SNS itself.
Thats the worst worst outcome.
>Also when your entire ideology is based on whining about corrupt construction companies because you think that the state shouldn't send too much public-private partnerships, you are actually just wishing for monetarist austerity over Keynesianism.
Are you even Serbian? This is just a small fraction of the issues the movement is concerned about.

Im going to the store today to buy the VOOTPEN, the best looking and most expensive pen I can find so I can aurafarm when I go to the VOOTING booth tommorrow

>>2937174
She's a closeted lesbo Colombian emigre with serious overlapping personality disorders and politics similar to an AUC death squad member. And now she's in Serbia!

Vucic conceded. Laffo.

fascism voted away again? anti-electoralists in shambles.

>>2938432
more progressive than supporting genocidal lunatics

I hope that one particular multipolarist faggot that shills running over students with police vans and seething about "muh proleteriat" is taking this particularly hard

so glad they voted out the national bourgeoisie guy
now the international bourgeoisie can fix serbia

>>2939692
Why do you think this a national vs international bourgeoisie conflict?

behold the national bourgeois
>Vučić promoted austerity-based economic policies, whose aim was to reduce Serbia's budget deficit. Vučić's policy of fiscal consolidation was primarily aimed at cuts in the public sector. One of the measures was the reduction of pensions and salaries in the public sector as well as a ban on further employment in the public sector. Vučić's government has concluded a three-year stand-by arrangement with the IMF worth €1.2 billion as a precautionary measure to secure the country's long term fiscal stability.
<The IMF has praised the reforms as has the EU calling them one of the most successful programmes the IMF has ever had.

>>2939701
he is just a salty Russian fascist

>>2939706
you can just say russian

The "Alliance for European Serbia" list got like 0.3%, LMAO

So are the new guys pro Ukraine pro Israel?

>>2939801
>non-marxist "grassroots movement"
do you even have to ask?

>>2939801
They refused to state an opinion on Ukraine, since this is a controversial issue in Serbia, and the majority opinion is against sanctions to Russia probably (and the best argument the pro-sanction side has is basically that the EU will like us better if we enact sanctions).
Stopping arms sales to Israel is explicitly in their program, but we'll see how much of their pretty ambitious program is implemented.

How social-facist is this new unaccountable party?
They don't obviously state they want to join the EU or support Ukraine (yet), but are somehow supported by all the pro-EU parties, and academics always are some of the most reactionary elements of the petty bourgeoisie, especially when it comes to securing their "earned" social status

>>2939802
>marxist
but why even take them at their word? "student" political movement in my country went from being "more communist than the (comintern) communists" by claiming themselves to be "anarcho-trotsko-maoists" to calling for the bombing of Serbia in the name of "humanitarian interventionism" in a few decades

Any leftist among the students list?
Or is it your standard eastern european "anti-corruption" centrists?

>>2940086
>leftist
Not a thing in post-soviet countries obviously, because local porkies who privatized represent every flavor political party and push their own agenda through them. More so ex-"communists" who pretend to be modern left are the worst because they managed to accumulate the largest capital after system change

>>2940086
looks like it's the same exact same platform Zelensky ran as (the first and only time), where it's publicly "anti-corruption" (whatever that means) and doesn't mention or even pretends to seek compromise in any controversial issues regarding Russia, then slowly turn around

>>2940091
Albania and Russia one struggle

>>2939801
Our EUrocrat warmonger neoliberals are celebrating that the "students" won against the "permanently ruling democracy despiser".
When they say "democrat" and "democracy" they mean "bourgeois-liberal" and "liberalism" btw.

>>2940149
Vucic sold weapons to both Ukraine and Israel.

>>2939801
They are a social-democratic left-liberal reformist soft-nationalist movement essentially

Instead of pushing Vučić's line how these are CIA funded color revolutionaries, read their programme, it's available, some 50 pages. Here's the content. The state this board is in is so bad, that people think the Merkel installed eurotechnocrat Vučler is anti-West. FFS the guy introduced sanctions on Cuba. The only people that support Vučić from the "left" in Serbia is the RNP-F, and their line lost last night. The poors don't support Vučič they support t he students. Cope and seethe international liberalty

1. Freeing the courts and prosecution through a Special Prosecutorial Police
   

A vetted police unit to investigate corruption and arrest those responsible without political obstruction, freeing judges and prosecutors from political pressure; a comprehensive review of the Ministry of the Interior, removal of officials linked to organised crime, and dismissal of police officers who broke the law in dealing with protesting students and citizens.

1. Law on the origin and confiscation of illegally acquired assets, and lustration of public officials
   

Strengthening the Tax Administration to investigate the assets of public officials and return stolen public money to the budget; holding accountable officials who abused their position, engaged in corruption or violated human rights, the Constitution and the law.

1. Full transparency of public procurement and audit of government projects
   

Publication of all contracts and tenders, strengthening of the State Audit Institution, and audit of non-transparent and overpriced infrastructure projects, with emphasis on secret contracts, lex specialis laws and projects that missed their deadlines.

1. Freeing the media Unblocking and depoliticising the Regulatory Authority for Electronic Media (REM);
   

freeing RTS; investigating the responsibility of journalists and management of state and private broadcasters for discrimination and hate speech; reallocation of national broadcasting frequencies and a stronger role for the Press Council.

1. Professional employment and departisation of the public sector Ending party-based employment, introducing strict competitive examinations, appointing proven experts rather than party loyalists to head public enterprises, and introducing strict financial control.
   
2. Innovation in education and free textbooks
   

Investment in modern curricula, critical thinking and practical skills; free textbooks for all primary and secondary school pupils, and affordable school trips and extracurricular activities.

1. Knowledge economy and support for domestic entrepreneurs and farmers
   

Linking universities, institutes and professional associations with industry; grants and subsidies for start-ups, innovation, domestic entrepreneurs and farmers, to move from a cheap-labour model to a high-value economy.

1. Permanent contracts after 12 months
   

Amending the Labour Law to reduce the maximum duration of fixed-term employment from 24 to 12 months.

1. Ending the import lobby's monopoly and ensuring food security
   

Tackling import lobbies accused of distorting the relationship between retail prices and production costs; protecting agricultural land and water as national assets guaranteeing food security.

1. Affordable housing for young couples and underfunded professions
   

Flats with favourable rent and purchase terms, with tax relief for young families and employees in education and healthcare.

1. Affordable medicines and a doctor in every village
   

State control and a sharp reduction in medicine prices, renovation of rural clinics and health centres, and employment of young doctors and technicians.

I'm kinda surprised by the reactions in this thread. I would have expected people obsessed by geopolitics to understand Serbia better.

Vučić was an opportunist who shook the hand of Putin regularly while selling weapons to Ukraine and Israel and welcomed the proposal of Jared Kushner to tear down the buildings of Belgrade bombed in 1999 by NATO kept as remembrance in the city center, to build a Trump Tower there, and Vučić justified this by saying "we need to get a better relationship with the US" (in case you are unaware, a very similar proposal involving a natural reserve sparked the current protests in Albania).

Is this the anti-imperialism you want so badly? Seriously?
How the students were supposed "to push SNS to the left?", lmao? This is MAGA communism tier delusion.
What "compromise on any controversial issues regarding Russia" Serbia has to deal with? Serbia is not Ukraine, there aren't Russian separatist groups operating in Vojvodina or anything. Serbs tend to see Russians as their big brothers because both are Orthodox, and both hate NATO, they don't have issues with them. The real geopolitical problem for Serbia is the Kosovo question, if they have a beef with someone, it's Albania (who is pro-NATO and hates its communist past, unlike Serbia).

People talk about the student movement, but while it started with students reacting to the collapse of the Novi Sad's train station canopy, it ended up encompassing many fractions of the population, including Yugoslavia war veterans, who still remember what happened to their country in 1999.
Is it so unfathomable for you that people might not like it when the infrastructure of their own country is rotting because of corruption? When people are opposed to destroying a natural reserve in order to build lithium mines for the profit of Rio Tinto? Especially at a time when protests in Europe are getting more and more widespread?

>>2940149
Bro, you are German, you are part of the country which profits the most from Brussels' technocracy at the expense of Southern Europe, your left is in shambles and pro-Israel, AfD is getting more popular that ever, maybe it's time for you to take care of your own country first instead of bemoaning a successful protest movement which actually achieved one of their goals.

>>2940189
idk how you can blame people for being cynical about Serbia going hard pro-NATO a la Ukraine after this, there has been a lot of "gen z/student protests" that just hand their country to the evil empire and people will be pleasantly surprised if this doesn't but do we really think this won't if we're being totally honest??

>>2940189
Chill. I wasn't even voicing an opinion of my own, just quoting EUrocrat neoliberals, or "Brussels technocrats", as you call them.

>>2940182
This is pretty good, very pragmatic and basically aims to resolve the immediate problems people had after 11 years of Vučić, regarding justice, nepotism, housing costs, development and foreign lobbies.
Hope they will manage to put it into practice for real though, because after the euphoria of victory, there is always the actual problem of implementing all of this, that will make or break the newly elected "student coalition".

I expect some people here to seethe at the "grants and subsidies for start-ups" part of the program, but when it's China or Vietnam doing this, it's genuine communism, so go figure.

>>2940195
>Serbia going hard pro-NATO a la Ukraine
Where are the proofs of this? I told you a lot of Yugoslav war veterans supported the movement against Vučić. Do you think they are pro-NATO? Do you know what happened in 1999 in Serbia?

You don't have to walk around very long in Belgrade to see a "смрт нато" graffiti or sticker. Things are more complicated than you think, and maybe your binary geopolitical framing is too simplistic to understand what is happening in Serbia.
Or actually, it's not complicated at all. Serbs have been protesting for the same reasons French, Italian, Spanish and Albanian people are protesting right now, and they have been successful so far. It's that simple.

But it seems that on /leftypol/, only Western countries are allowed to be dissatisfied with their own governments (and when they do, they are always a bunch of lumpens and liberals so there is no winning ever basically).
Non-western countries should eat shit and bow to their national bourgeoisie eternally according to /leftypol/ because that will make world conditions more favorable for communism perhaps during the next millennia or something. Maybe you should understand that most people around the world aren't as drunk on niche terminally-online ideology like this and don't see things that way because they care about their own well-being and not abstract grand narratives.

It has been a good day. Leftist won in Serbia and Brazil.

>>2940209
Yeah it’s great if you like social fascism and Russian genocide

>>2940178
Sounds like the average leftoidpoler then

>>2940211
>Russian genocide
LMAO
Take a walk around the fortress in Belgrade, you will see stalls with boomers selling pro Putin t-shirts. Go buy one if you are so worried about Russians getting genocided in Serbia.
The main reason why some Serbs might dislike Russians is because a lot of them expatriated there after the war started, which increased rents a lot. But Ukrainians are part of this problem too.
Anyway, it's ultimately the fault of landlords increasing rents while wages are stagnant and it's not an uniquely Serbian problem, it's a worldwide problem.

>>2940211
>every country should serve Russia to their own detriment

Russian bots are mentally ill. They are not even comprehend reality but just barometric intuition what regime is friendly to Putin and what isn't. Like Lula is neutral despite being BRICS ally so they expect that Bolsonaro will be a better choice for Russia simply because of Trumpism. Russofasicm is tiresome…

Serbian students are hot. Glad they won.

>>2940232
>hot
They are ugly doe

>>2940211
>russian genocide
Son

>>2940182
>The state this board is in is so bad
There were people on this board arguing the Malagasy protests a year ago (against a porky president with dual french citizenship) was a pro-IMF anti-multipolarista color revolution
They're hopeless man
>>2940225
Worse. Imagine carrying water for people selling weapons to Ukraine lmao.

I don't know why the mutipolar retards are crying the students said they wouldnt put sancations on russia

Our victory is eliciting the exact amount of seethe i expected it to from this hellboard. Cry about it faggots, your multipoggers fascism will not pass in Serbia.

>>2940208
>Hope they will manage to put it into practice for real though, because after the euphoria of victory, there is always the actual problem of implementing all of this, that will make or break the newly elected "student coalition".
As long as they keep the liberal wing of the student movement castrated and impotent the left (which has a semblance of any program anywhere in Serbia) will hold the line. I've been keeping up with the inner workings of the student movement and since day one they said no to any kind of liberashka nonsense: no to an expert government, no to the pro-EU-opposition. Questionnaires give that only 2% of the student supporters want more EU investing while it's like 10-15% for Vučić. Moreover the same questionnaire told us that poorer and working class people support the students while white-collar and bureaucrats support Vućler.

>>2940189
>to build a Trump Tower there
They even built an Elbit Systems (Israeli) drone factory somewhere in Vojvodina apparently. But these are le productive forces to our multipolaroids I guess

>>2940189
I’m doubtful when it comes to protests, especially when they seem to be particularly well co-ordinated and have the immediate goal of the current leadership resigning and replacing them with some random pro-West guy who’s apparently the people’s elect. Because that’s not democracy even by liberal standards, even if you have 10,000 people with banners and pitchforks filling a town square, that’s neither an election nor the majority of people eligible to vote, but it does get shitlibs around the world shedding a tear over the historic act of superior direct democracy they claim can’t happen at home.

However, elections are harder to rig and sneak a coup through. Absolutely they can be influenced and they are, but generally it seems it’s just the supposed Economic Silver Bullet that is EU membership and it only being possible for nations which adopt policies that Brussels selects.

I suspect though the concern that Serbia is going pro-NATO now is that, although the EU and NATO are separate entities and you don’t strictly have to be a member of both.. for all intents and purposes the EU is the people pleaser while NATO membership is the goal and you can’t at this stage have the former without the latter. Otherwise you’re welcoming a state that does business with Russia into the single market.

Maybe this new elected government can navigate the pressure to go full NATO while satisfying the desire for better economic conditions which will be influenced by the EU even if not via membership, but Serbia will have been the first country to achieve that goal since the end of the Cold War.

>>2940211
>Russian genocide
I wish this was happening.

>>2940280
>replacing them with some random pro-West guy
The student movement has no leader. It's directly organized via student plenums and citizen assemblies.

Swear to Marx people would have been calling 1905 a German color revolution against the developmentalist czar.

>>2940313
That’s a hypothetical situation which would be correctly labelled a colour revolution

>>2940315
Fuck off liberashka. The student movement purged the pro-EU liberals in the initial few months when the movement started. The student list is against EU imperialism. The liberal wing of the student movement, which participated in performative actions like the excursions to Brussels were only given media attention because the media is owned by the EU imperialists. You are a victim of a psyop.

>the pro-NATO neoliberal ghoul getting run out of office is actually le bad because something something color revolution

I swear "multipolarity" induces some kind of aggressive brain worms in people

>>2940316
I think you’ve misunderstood my post, I was saying the election isn’t a colour revolution because those don’t have elections.

>>2910658
truth singularity, milošević is the single biggest reason yugoslavia collapsed but was able to use the nato bombings to rile up blood and soil chuds into thinking he wasn't just a more genocidal gorbachev

>Maybe this new elected government can navigate the pressure to go full NATO while satisfying the desire for better economic conditions which will be influenced by the EU even if not via membership
And this is the key point I’m making. EU membership or not, better economic conditions almost certainly includes better relations with the EU, but of course that’s conditional.

>>2940211
>lula is doing russian genocide
russians are actual israelites holy shit

>New government pledges to stop arms sales to conflict zones (including Israel and Ukraine)
Oh no polaroidzizters I was told this was a heckin crayon revolution
How can this be!?

>>2940280
>I’m doubtful when it comes to protests, especially when they seem to be particularly well co-ordinated
Broski, the protests began 2 years ago almost day for day. It was originally a non-partisan movement, everyone wanted Vučić out, but distrusted the Democratic Party as well.
This is not the first time a diffuse movement like this emerged in Europe, but in the end, they had no choice but to present an institutional list if they wanted to last. They were still debating if they should do this last year and some parts of the "student" movement were against it by fear of being co-opted.
They are co-ordinated because Serbs aren't stupid orcs, are rather well educated politically due to their peculiar history (even if they go full schizo about the Vatican sometimes), and it's a small country of 8 million people with trains.
Hell when Vučić last year suddenly stopped all the trains right before the biggest protest of the year due to a mysterious "terrorist threat" involving someone planting "bombs" on every single railroad in the country, some protestors reached Belgrade by canoes and bikes. You need to understand the determination of Serbs when they are pissed off against something.

I can't take the rest of your post seriously, it's just the usual multipolarista slop. It's so funny how you all applaud the eternal election of the well-established socdem Lula, whose coalition had power for basically the last 20 years aside of the little Bolsonaro moment, all while painting in the abstract social democrats as social fascists, but once a new bottom-up movement made majoritaroly from the regular proletariat gain power, you are immediately distrustful. It's like most communists don't like it when a proletarian movement actually gain power. You people are a bundle of neurotic contradictions.

>>2940320
In 1999-2000, /leftypol/ would have said:
>Noooooo, you don't understand, Milošević is a socialist, that's literally in the name of his party!!!! He was part of the communist party for 30 heckin years!!!! What do you mean he wants to privatize state companies????? Noooo, he is anti-imperialist, noooooo pls support, don't burn the parliament, nooooo, nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

>>2940316
This is your candidate, yeah?
https://n1info.rs/svet/marta-kos-na-sastanku-sa-rektorom-djokicem-univerziteti-moraju-ostati-mesta-kritickog-razmisljanja-i-otvorene-debate/

>>2940392
Read you daft cunt
>>2940316
>performative actions like the excursions to Brussels were only given media attention because the media is owned by the EU imperialists

N1 is the mouth piece for EU lobbyists. Đokić isn't even on the student list. A fucking EU-crat said something, this means students will genocide Russians in Serbia. You are literally mind broken.

>>2940392
Đokić was literally presented by Vučić to appease the student rebellion and it failed.

>>2940392
Actually the anti imperialist zigger Vuvic has been overseeing the process of Serbia entering the EU since a decade while doing IMF shock therapies to progress, it's why they already are at chapter 26 and the EU sends this nice slovenian lady to talk with the rector

Damn. This thread is a massive redpill on the absolute state of this hellsite

>>2939802
Why did you write grassroots movement in quotes? It was not formed by an existing institution and it is composed of many students across all public universities in the country, except for the one in Kosovo. Or do you mean that a non-marxist movement cannot be grassroots by definition? I don't see why that would be like that.
>>2940319
The Bulldozer revolution (which is called just "the 5th of October" in Serbia) is considered the original color revolution but it involved the USA-backed opposition winning an election against Milosevic which he then tried to blatantly steal after the votes were already counted to be in favor of the opposition.
The stronger argument against this being a color revolution is that the West usually blatantly supports them while there is no such support here.
But the real reason is of course that this is a directly democratic student movement making its own decisions at meetings any student can come to. Color revolutions are by definition supposed to take resources and orders from the West, and this is not the case here.
>>2940229
What does he have to do with anything?

>>2940313
>>2940316
>>2940378
That posts is not describing the Student movement like that, but talking about protests in general and saying the Student movement is not like that.

>>2940392
No? He's literally not on the candidate list. He was on a draft of it at some point, but he was vetoed.

>big tent slopulist party defeats big tent slopulist party
nothingburger

>>2940544
>the West usually blatantly supports them while there is no such support here.
How do you know that there is no not-so-blatant-overt support though? In Serbia of all places, the home country of OTPOR?
Don't get me wrong, I dont know anything about Serbian politics and I do not want to spoil anything for you guys if it's really a genuine leftist thing. However "soft power" glowies are no joke and infiltrating something that is open to literally anyone is a very low hanging fruit for them. Just be fucking careful to not end up as useful idiots ok. Too many did before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_resistance#Concepts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor

>>2910884
>But I've heard that the term political corruption has a broader meaning in Serbian than in English
Actually, more particular meaning. Corruption isn't just lobbying or shady projects. SNS is I think one of the largest parties proportional to population. I think they have some 300k members (compared to Serbia's, and even if you add say Montenegro and Srpska, 7 milllion). It's a huge machine that has done the "long march through institutions". This in consequence doesn't just mean, oh our officials are corrupt, because they take bribes – no this was more of a, I can't go to the doctor or get a job or get a document from the town hall or whatever, if I don't have connections to the ruling party. So it's like a pyramid scheme where if you want to get ahead (have a job and not die), you need to get some 10-20 suckers below you supporting you, and then if they want to move up, they have to do the same thing. A pyramid scheme.

This had massive consequences over time.

>>2910884
>The Student list's program is unknown
Also not true https://studenti.org.rs/program/
Regarding the liberal wing of the student movement and its doings (last couple of paragraphs) please look at >>2940277
rest of the post I don't disagree with

>>2939671
>>2939689
Not sure if serious or joking, but Vucic isn't really fascist. He's not very far right either. And this wasn't just "voting" but a 2 year long decentralized student protest movement whose goal ended up being getting rid of SNS, and which ended up being better organized than all the opposition parties in Serbia in the last 14 years. One example of how better organized they covered every single polling station, both in Serbia and abroad, with at least 1, mostly the maximum allowed 2 election controllers (which observe the election on behalf of the party and take part in election activities like handing out ballots and counting them after the voting is over) while the opposition used to struggle to cover just Belgrade, and SNS did not manage to cover all stations abroad either.

>>2940084
If by "social-fascist" you are asking if they are social democrat, the answer is yes.
They're not a party, they're a one-time list formed by a protest movement. It's true that they are not legally bound to follow the will of the protest movement (actually in Serbia's parliamentary system, once you are a member of the parliament, your party can't revoke your seat so you can split from your party and take a parliament seat from them) but I hope that deviating from it would be massively unpopular. Though they might not care, since none of them are career politicians and they're probably not going to want to become one.
Joining the EU is a non-issue because there's basically no way Serbia is joining the EU in the next 4 years, except if some exceptional political situation makes the EU really want to integrate Serbia as soon as possible.
Regarding the Ukraine stuff, Serbia already sells arms to Ukraine and even gets diplomatic visits from Ukraine. Regarding sanctioning Russia, this is generally unpopular in Serbia and it's unpopular both on the right and the left. Only some pro-EU liberals want to sanction Russia, and their only justification is that EU is doing it so Serbia should do it to.
But none of that should matter if they follow what the Student movement wants them to do. It's only an issue if the Student movement disintegrates or gets taken over, or if enough of the candidates decide to split from the Student movement.
Both the students and the academics seem to be a mixed bag politics-wise, with fields such as Sociology being somewhat left-leaning and fields such as History and Law being quite right-leaning.

>>2940086
One of the most prominent Student list candidates is Jovo Bakic, who is a leftist Sociology professor. He helped found some currently kinda irrelevant party called the Party of the Radical Left, but he was ejected from the party for anti-Communist Party of China statements in the media, or something like that.
But leftists aren't a large chunk of the candidates of the Student List. The Student movement has some kind of leftist faction which is somewhat influential, but nothing in the program is anything more left than social democracy. Maybe stopping of arms sales to Israel can be called radical.

>>2940090
Yugoslavia wasn't a Soviet aligned country. And our ex-"communists" barely even pretend to be leftist. They often use right-wing language like protecting tradition and the Serb people. Which makes sense, since they're the remains of Milosevic and his wife's parties. Serbian labor law, which I heard some NGOs or activists or whatever say is the worst in Europe was enacted while the head of the Movement of Socialists was the Minister of Labor.
Though, while they are rich from taking from the state, the privatization was carried out only in part by them, and it was based on giving workers shares in the company (with management getting more, then scamming the workers to sell the shares while their prices were still low) while the more classic kind of privatization where state enterprises are given whole to the highest bidder was performed by the post-Milosevic governments. During that latter period, there was also state-sanctioned fraud in selling worker-owned shares from the Milosevic era, destroying any positive results of that earlier privatization system might have had.

>>2940091
We in Serbia understand what "anti-corruption" means, and it's a pretty concrete thing. What's not exactly concrete is how they plan to stop it from happening again, since the relevant parts of their program mostly talk about how they'll investigate and punish SNS' past corruption.
I already wrote earlier in this post on what I think about the "secretly anti-Russia" stuff. But why do you care so much about Russia anyway?
Also, they did explicitly state that they will not sanction Russia and even that they will stop selling arms to Ukraine.

>>2940195
The Student movement isn't really like any of the other "Gen Z protests" even though it's often said to be one. Gen Z protests mostly seem to be disorganized social media-based movements, while the Student movement in Serbia is pretty well-organized and based on direct democracy via in-person meetings of university students. It also lasted 2 years, a long time relative to most of the others, and didn't involve much violence, compared to e.g. the revolution in Nepal. And the Student movement opted for running for parliament and basically pushed all the opposition parties into irrelevance.

>>2940209
The Student list isn't particularly leftist. But I guess it is if you consider PT leftist? Maybe not even then, I don't know much about Brazil politics.

>>2940320
>milošević is the single biggest reason yugoslavia collapsed
Not really? He was in conflict with the Slovenians and Croatians, but they are to blame too. Slovenia and Croatia wanted more liberalism and to keep more money in their republics, while Milosevic wanted more power to himself and more money going into Serbia. Then the economic/political conflict between Slovenia and Serbia made the League of Communists disintegrate on the 14th congress.

>>2940587
The Student list is not a party. And the fact that it's a protest movement that makes decisions via direct democracy that ran for parliament and won is interesting at least, even if it's big tent.

>>2940429
Shit is so bad the class interests of the international proletariat are forgotten, I'm guilty myself being somewhat content about this election being a good thing for the serbian workers, but they certainly don't think in class, and they surely don't care about workers my country. Well borders are kafir anyway

Serbia’s problem is the clientelistic party-state – a patronage pyramid that colonizes institutions and makes party connections a condition of access.

>>2941332
>party connections a condition of access.
That's every government in the world

>>2941406
Not really. In many places it's usually the other way around, in that someone is first a patron or member of the institution, and that investment in the institution influences their party loyalties. If I work in public education and am in a teachers union, that is very likely to shape which parliamentary groups I prefer. Likewise if I'm strongly religious and intend to get a liscense to sell real estate. Clientelism refers to when the relation is reversed. I'm given a position within and/or favorable treatment by state institutions due to my loyalty to the party, in proportion to how much my loyalty has assisted the party. For the average joe who just casts a ballot, that usually just means the guy who wrangled voters into a bus to the polling station buys everyone a couple rounds of drinks with party money. For the middle strata and up, it often means things like being given tenure at a public institution or having the office that grants real estate liscenses look the other way on your previous charge for fraud.

Clientelism isnt rare and it only goes so far in explaining how a given place works politically but within the framework of liberal-democracies it's a distinct phemomena that is definitely not present to the same degree everywhere.

>>2941332
>>2941681
This is why you are a liberal. Imagine wanting to be more like Western Europe in 2026. Only buck broken Eastern European libs do this who have one single solution for every problem under the sun: more Western colonialism! It doesn't matter how many weapons Vucic sells to Israel or Ukraine, if your primary problem is that capital can't reproduce without reliance on and becoming subordinate to the state instead of doing by itself through the sheer power and size of the international monopoly capitalist cartels and you actually think you can reverse the inevitable decay of global monopoly capitalism, you are liberal.

>>2941704
Eastern euro nationalism is fighting a losing battle

>>2941704
you are nazi

>>2941704
>This is why you are a liberal. Imagine wanting to be more like Western Europe in 2026
Liberalism is when you dont want nepotism and pyramid schemes giving your country away to a political cult and locking it inyo a permanent state of institutional decay and stagnation. Yes. In this term i want to be mote like Western Europe. The student list is only going to deliver 2% of the changes I want as my radicalism goes miles ahead of that movement but it will hopefully be a stepping stone for further radicalization of the new generation and the general population and spur even more radical demands in the future. Also i like the proposal of student councils that are directly involved in running the state that the Student List wants to implement. Its only a small shuffle in the direction of total abolition of everything and absolute individual freedom that I want but its a step nonetheless and the revolution broke so many taboos we never thought would be broken in a country like Serbia and the people welcomed their breakage with open arms. Serbia has fallen, but the average serb has risen. Hopefully the students and youth keep the new government by the balls and manage to steer it in an even more radical direction. Something WILL HAPPEN.

>>2941704
what the fuck are you talking about, how do you read a neutral description of clientelism and assume all this shit?

the only thing i can imagine is that youre assuming im saying that everything would be rosy with liberalism if not for corruption. which is why i specifically say

>it only goes so far in explaining how a given place works politically but within the framework of liberal-democracies it's a distinct phenomena

are you so braindamaged by bickering on the internet that you cant discuss anything without giving the least generous readings possible and assuming everyone else is insinuating something other than they say?

bijibiji Serbia! Revolution of our time!

>>2940211
Ziggers have lost their mind

>>2941747
it's tiring having to explain every time that all of these EU/US groups got isolated and cut off in the first months of the rebellion, this is not "otpor"
you can't cope with the fact that soviet-like (plenum) organizing led to the massive democratization and participation (thousands of volunteers and donations) and uprooting of the EU technocrat 577
and you are more than this mad at the fact that soviet organizing is possible and you have no excuse for sitting on your multipolaroid ass
studenti pobeđuju

>>2941704
>if your primary problem is that capital can't reproduce without reliance on and becoming subordinate to the state instead of doing by itself through the sheer power and size of the international monopoly capitalist cartels
I can't parse this sentence. I have no idea what you meant by this except "it's good when Vučić sells the natural resources of Serbia to a British–Australian multinational mining company called Rio Tinto, it's inevitable". I guess the more Jared Kushner build luxury resorts in your country, the more anti-imperialist it is because global monopoly capitalism is decaying or something. I don't know anon, upgrade your LLM model or learn to convey meaning with words when talking about complex subjects.

>>2941760
And now the state has been fully captured by the petite bourgeoise and ivory tower intellectuals who will fully sell out Serbia to Brussels and give full support to the genocide of Russians, but I guess it’s all worth it because now you can groom minors into mutilating their genitals and you got the chance to fly around cartoon flags from pedophile nation

>>2941764
Notice how multipolarists main issue is always "gay people will be given rights". This is the main thing they emphasize whenever they mention any kind of "colour revolution" they dislike. They literally cannot oppose anything without mentioning how much they hate the lgbt. This kind of rabid hatred for minorities is typical to only one kind of internet pest and its the paid russian shill. The shit you retards talk about is the copy-paste script all russian proxy organizations in Europe use and the same script that I was forced to listen to for years on national tv. Thankfully, this is no longer going to be the case as all your agents in my country are starting to get arrested at a rapid pace and its been only 4 days since the election. You retards will be able to practice multipolar praxis (sucking russian men off) in Serbian prisons from now on.

>>2941764
Vučić has already functionally sold out Serbia to Brussels and has sold weapons and ammunition to both Ukraine and Israel. As well as fully committed to the sale of strategic and natural resources to a much more blatant and aggressive degree to multinational (and national) capital. If you think Vučić's government wasn't fully formed out of petite bourgeoise and ivory tower intellectuals, business and the ilk, you haven't got a faintest clue of what you're talking about. This isn't an endorsement of the SL either. You're just a complete fucking moron.

>>2941755
That would be based if true. I am moderately concerned about the new president being a neocolonial NGO shill, but that's just the first reaction I have. I haven't invested as much as a few hours actually diving into the topic. People need to stop being buckbroken by the period of the darkest reaction we live under, like this guy >>2941764. I'm Russian and Serbia hadn't exactly been an ally at all during this war under king chud.

>>2941764
>>2941704

“What childish innocence it is to present one’s own impatience as a theoretically convincing argument!” (Frederick Engels, “Programme of the Blanquist Communards”, from the German Social-Democratic newspaper Volksstaat, 1874, No. 73, given in the Russian translation of Articles, 1871–1875, Petrograd, 1919, pp. 52–53).

this kind of shit reminds me of bakunin. combination of dismissive moralism, kneejerk anti-intellectualism, willful misinterpretation, and especially the unmistakeable spite towards anyone who has the audacity to suggest that its possible to make revolution out of the world that exists instead of running headfirst into walls and scolding the traitors who suggest using a ladder

>We have already expressed several times our deep aversion to the theory of Lassalle and Marx, which recommends to the workers, if not as a final ideal at least as the next immediate goal, the founding of a people’s state, which according to their interpretation will be nothing but “the proletariat elevated to the status of the governing class.”
>Let us ask, if the proletariat is to be the ruling class, over whom is it to rule? In short, there will remain another proletariat which will be subdued to this new rule, to this new state. For instance, the peasant “rabble” who, as it is known, does not enjoy the sympathy of the Marxists who consider it to represent a lower level of culture, will probably be ruled by the factory proletariat of the cities. Or, if this problem is to be approached nationalistically, the Slavs will be placed in the same subordinate relationship to the victorious German proletariat in which the latter now stands to the German bourgeoisie.
>These elected representatives, say the Marxists, will be dedicated and learned socialists. The expressions “learned socialist,” “scientific socialism,” etc., which continuously appear in the speeches and writings of the followers of Lassalle and Marx, prove that the pseudo-People’s State will be nothing but a despotic control of the populace by a new and not at all numerous aristocracy of real and pseudo-scientists. The “uneducated” people will be totally relieved of the cares of administration, and will be treated as a regimented herd.
>No state, however democratic – not even the reddest republic – can ever give the people what they really want, i.e., the free self-organization and administration of their own affairs from the bottom upward, without any interference or violence from above, because every state, even the pseudo-People’s State concocted by Mr. Marx, is in essence only a machine ruling the masses from above, through a privileged minority of conceited intellectuals, who imagine that they know what the people need and want better than do the people themselves.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/works/1873/statism-anarchy.htm#s1

>The German workers, Bornstadt, Marx, Engels- especially Marx, poison the atmosphere. Vanity, malevolence, gossip, pretentiousness and boasting in theory and cowardice in practice. Dissertations about life, action and feeling- and complete absence of life, action, and feeling- and complete absence of life. Disgusting flattery of the more advanced workers- and empty talk. According to them, Feuerbach is a "bourgeois", and the epithet BOURGEOIS! is shouted ad nauseam by people who are from head to foot more bourgeois than anyone in a provincial city- in short, foolishness and lies, lies and foolishness. In such an atmosphere no one can even breathe freely. I stay away from them and I have openly declared that I will not go to their Kommunistischer Handwerkerverein [Communist Trade Union Society] and will have nothing to do with this organisation.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/works/various/mebio.htm

>The Social Revolution…is infinitely broader in scope than that advanced by the German or Marxist program….Not the bourgeois political freedom so extolled and recommended as the first step in the conquest of full freedom by Marx and bis followers, but a broad human freedom, a freedom destroying all the dogmatic, metaphysical, political, and juridical fetters by which everyone today is loaded down, which will give everybody, collectives as well as individuals, full autonomy in their activities and their development, delivered once and for all from inspectors, directors, and guardians.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/works/1872/la-liberte.htm#s2

i am sure that you loathe bakunin and have plenty of venom for him. but you sound just like him, whatever point youre trying to make is immediately obfuscated by preemptive defensiveness

this kind of 'stalwart' attitude tries to present itself as the true uncompromising marxism by making such self-assured definitive judgementd about the liberalism vs redeemability of the inevitably ambiguous and imperfect developments in the world. besides resembling bakunin's petulance in the rhetorical style, in content it always reminds me of the historical 'left communism' that lenin described:

>To carry on a war for the overthrow of the international bourgeoisie, a war which is a hundred times more difficult, protracted and complex than the most stubborn of ordinary wars between states, and to renounce in advance any change of tack, or any utilisation of a conflict of interests (even if temporary) among one’s enemies, or any conciliation or compromise with possible allies (even if they are temporary, unstable, vacillating or conditional allies)—is that not ridiculous in the extreme? Is it not like making a difficult ascent of an unexplored and hitherto inaccessible mountain and refusing in advance ever to move in zigzags, ever to retrace one’s steps, or ever to abandon a course once selected, and to try others?
>The error consisted in their denial of the need to take part in the reactionary bourgeois parliaments and in the reactionary trade unions; the error consisted in numerous manifestations of that “Left-wing” infantile disorder…
>Capitalism would not be capitalism if the proletariat pur sang were not surrounded by a large number of exceedingly motley types intermediate between the proletarian and the semi-proletarian (who earns his livelihood in part by the sale of his labour-power), between the semi-proletarian and the small peasant (and petty artisan, handicraft worker and small master in general), between the small peasant and the middle peasant, and so on, and if the proletariat itself were not divided into more developed and less developed strata, if it were not divided according to territorial origin, trade, sometimes according to religion, and so on. From all this follows the necessity, the absolute necessity, for the Communist Party, the vanguard of the proletariat, its class-conscious section, to resort to changes of tack, to conciliation and compromises with the various groups of proletarians, with the various parties of the workers and small masters. It is entirely a matter of knowing how to apply these tactics in order to raise—not lower—the general level of proletarian class-consciousness, revolutionary spirit, and ability to fight and win.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch08.htm#b30

he is describing an attitude very similar to the 'uncompromising marxist-leninist' types on /leftypol/ and elsewhere, that any struggle within existing institutions, any effort to understand and influence this struggle, to study the developments without undue cynicism or hope, with the goal of finding places to make tactical interventions that open real possibilities – all of that is bullshit excuses for your own ideological impurities. the important thing is to make sure everyone knows youre not a liberal. if everybody knows youre not a liberal, and you make enough liberals mad, then the not-liberalism will add up to communism. all you need to do is hold your ground on whatever provocative slogans are the toughest and project certainty with your non-liberal judgements of whatever is in the news, and everything will fall into place.

>>2941943
Imagine calling anybody critical of an obvious color revolution a Bakuninist when the obese proto-fascist himself would be salivating at yet another country being drawn into the genocidal coalition against the Russian hordes

>>2941947
its funny because this is exactly what i mean, i say it sounds like bakunin because theres this immediate pivot to a self-righteous attack on something that nobody said. i didnt say anybody was a bakuninist, i said the comments & the many people who post in a similar style remind me of bakunins own rhetoric

immediately we're talking about color revolution because youre mad at someone you imagined and you have the slogans ready to take them down. and even there in your shadowboxing you manage to look like a fucking retard, because you managed to get bakunin's own ethnic moralism backwards, even after he got past his initial full commitment to pan-slavism and became critical of it, he couldnt help but see anti-slavic conspiracies everywhere he looked, accusing marx of being bismarcks natural successor (somehow, in a schizoid reasoning that you should find familiar, the reasoning is that marx supported polish national liberation because he wanted to oppress the slavs):

>Why does Marx, in contradiction to his own ideas, favor the establishment of an independent Polish state? Mr. Marx is not only a learned socialist, he is also a very clever politician and a patriot no less ardent than Bismarck, though he would approach his goals through somewhat different means. And like many of his compatriots, both socialist and otherwise, he desires the establishment of a great Germanic state, one that will glorify the German people and benefit world civilization. Now among the obstacles to the realization of this aim is the Prussian Empire which, with menacing power, poses as the protector of the Slavic peoples against German civilization.
>The policy of Bismarck is that of the present; the policy of Marx, who considers himself at least as Bismarck’s successor, is that of the future.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/works/1872/karl-marx.htm

>>2941958
Thank you for #CorrectingTheRecord for the #Resistance! No Kings! Hands off NATO!

When you’re done quote mining Marx to justify cheerleading another successful Open Society coup let us know, until then maybe Reddit is more your speed? Since you obviously lack the mental capacity to properly understand geopolitics from a materialist standpoint

>>2941961
good bait, you got me

>>2941980
>le handshake maymay
>>2941962
If that makes you feel better sure

Why are you fags so """geopolitics""" brained? This election was good because it shows the people can replace a corrupt evil govt with one that at least has a good domestic program. Serbia is an irrelevant tiny country, who gives a fuck about it's foreign policy?

>>2941986
For Zionists like >>2941982 the only value any country holds is serving Israel.

>>2941986
its even stupider than that. serbias "foreign policy" under vucic has been 'dont rock the boat, dont take sides on big issues' while in practice they were full speed ahead on austerity, privatization, and integration into the EU.

the only thing i am aware of that could POSSIBLY be interpreted as "multipolarist" or whatever the claim is, is that the party is full of serbian nationalists who generally have very positive sentiments towards russians.

>>2941986
Some of us have object permeance and remember the last dozen or so times a “totally grassroots Gen Z student movement” overthrew a government that was insufficient with their givas under the guise of “anti-corruption”

>>2941995
Then, keep watching. You are a powerless spectator while Serbs attempt to take control of political institutions in their small country. It might please you, it might not, it doesn't matter to them.
πολιτικός/politikós comes from polī́tēs, "citizen", which itself comes from pólis, "the city".
If you don't understand why the Mandate of Heaven is over for Vucic and Serbian citizens decided to take care of the matters of the city by themselves, I can't help you, you only have your own tears to cry.
But remember, you are nothing but a passive spectator, so keep watching the show.

>>2942013
based trvthnvker

>>2941747
This video is so retarded.
First, he confuses the Student movement and the Student list, saying that the SL is a rebranding of the SM, when actually SL is just the SM's electoral operation. This is relevant in the funding discussion, because the SL's funding is regulated under campaign finance law, where it can only get money from individual donations. They have also been raising funds just for the 45 days of the campaign, but this doesn't particularly matter since the SL's main expense are official campaign ads and they don't pay for the SM's other costs. So "following the money" of the SL does in fact lead you to individual donations, but that tells you nothing about the SM's finances. He then says that you can't donate to a leaderless movement because there's nobody to collect money? Did he forget that bank accounts can be owned by legal entities, not just people? The SM actually ran without any movement-level way of collecting money for a while, which somewhat functioned because they used the university spaces they blockaded for plenum meetings, students of course volunteered their work and continued living by whatever means they living already and they got donations in terms of various physical goods such as food. Some faculties collected money themselves, so I imagine they made a working group for collecting money which would receive and log donations. Later on, they partnered with IT Blokada, which is a group of tech workers (and tech businesses I think?) who support the SM. The SM officially collected donations to IT Blokada's bank account (since IT Blokada is a registered organization while the SM is not in the legal system at all) and they had some form of deal on how they would make payments on behalf of the SM. Later when the SL was registered as a group of citizens (a temporary legal entity whose purpose is contesting an election) the SM told everyone to donate to the SL instead. As far as I know, there is no public listing of how much money the SM got through IT Blokada and what they spent it on, but students active in the SM would presumably know such things. So "following the money" is not exactly something anyone can do with public information, and I don't know why he thinks showing a bunch of NGOs being funded by the West has anything to do with "following the money" of the SM? Also, the SM wasn't exactly swimming in money from what I saw. Back in 2025 when SNS withheld the salaries of teachers and protestors of blockades schools and universities, there was a relief fund set up for them, but they barely got any money from that.
Next, he lists a bunch of West-financed media that officially supported the SL or opposed Vucic. The issue with taking that as proof of US backing of the SM is that all that US-funded media was already against Vucic for years and years before the SM begun in November 2024. One might reply to that by saying that the West was trying to overthrow Vucic from the start, but that does not really make much sense. For one, it took 14 years for SNS to be defeated in a republic-level election, even with plenty of people hating them. They even almost lost Belgrade in a 2023 election that had to be repeated due to a conspiracy theorist party not wanting to coalition with anyone, then SNS winning the repeat election because half the opposition parties decided to boycott the election. Those opposition parties that boycotted the election are explicitly pro-EU (like SNS, unlike the SL) and worked with Western-backed NGO more and for longer compared to the SM which only exists for 2 years. Another thing is that Vucic founded SNS as a pro-EU split from the pro-Russian SRS (which was in the government with Milosevic's SPS in the 90s), and he took power in a moment where the EU was pressuring the previous government to agree to a certain Kosovo deal, which Vucic then agreed to. He also shows a tweet where he claims that N1 is a US/EU funded front? Which shows he doesn't really know what he's talking about, because N1 is a TV station which seems to have been making money and has been a "value add" for the cable TV provider that owned it, but now it was bought by some other fund, which either bought it on behalf of SNS or had some sort of deal with SNS regarding that purchase. One of the tweets from KRIK he shows in the video is actually about that issue. I'm not saying N1 is not West-leaning, it is extremely so. And they're a CNN affiliate, which I think means that any world news they cover is syndicated from CNN. However, they still give negative coverage to stuff like the Rio Tinto mining project even though that is of EU interest, so they aren't on the EU's side on absolutely everything.
There is also a strange portion where he talks about a press conference held by a student/the SM. Saying that the SM is US backed because they rented a press conference room that US backed NGOs also rent is a ridiculous scraping the bottom of the barrel for arguments. He also calls the student a figurehead for the SM, which is nonsense since that news article is about a press conference by the SM about a case where that student was stalked by the police, seemingly without a warrant. The SM also doesn't have figureheads, unless the SL candidates count. They specifically rotate students who speak on behalf of the SM so that individual students do not become known by the public as the face of the SM.
The part about some West-funded NGO helping the students with legal matters maybe could've been a good argument if it was supported by a bunch of other evidence, but it doesn't really work when it's the only semi-plausible thing he has. I don't know enough about NED-funded NGOs to know how much autonomy they have from the US and how they function internally. But regarding legal matters, the SM also had other venues which aren't NGO-affiliated. There were of course a bunch of law students in the movement which had some expertise, along with professors from the Faculty of Law which wanted to help. As for representation in court for SM-related cases (various arrests of students and other protestors during protests and such), they had help from many random lawyers across Serbia which took their cases pro bono because they supported the SM. That was of course possible because the SM was extremely popular, which the elections also showed with SM having the majority of all votes, while SNS could only get that on presidential elections and on a parliamentary election the opposition boycotted.
He also seems to think the protests were a lot more violent and destructive than they actually were? I guess that's just a bias against protests in general.

But the biggest issue is what >>2941755 said. Does he even know how the SM functions internally using direct democracy with decisions voted on meetings (called plenums) with open participation for all students? For some reason he thinks leaderless protest movements are impossible, but where does he think the leader(s) is/are? Since the plenums are open to all students, how would someone dictate what they want through them? With all that in mind, why would the US back a protest movement they might not be able to control against a guy like Vucic which is already mostly West-aligned, even if he also has friendly relations with Russia and China?

>>2942013
tru

>>2941791
>Notice how multipolarists main issue is always "gay people will be given rights".
You just don't understand the scientific dialectical materialist method

Unfriendly reminder than when this will blow over, and students start whining about how the "movement" was "betrayed", that they knew perfectly well what they were getting themselves into, that they cheered for it because they were completely aware this would always be the outcome, they are neither "naive" nor "well intentioned", they are just looking for an excuse, and this include most posters ITT
never trust self-identified petty bourgeois, especially "student", never take them at their empty words

>>2943255
hey so ummm… the actual power student movement is not in the parliament but within the plenums… so your point is moot lmao

>>2943266
nta but it isn't

1. technically speaking, the seats have the actual power
   
2. it's just a matter of time before they get coopted
   
3. if you trust vaguely leftist sociology professors, you might be mentally retarded
   

I don't understand why we are supposed to play dumb a pretend we don't know this is, at best, going to be just another neoliberal government

>>2943283
Its hard to be openly left in Serbia. Its a very reactionary place so if you wanna push leftism, you have to infuse it with a shitton of nationalist and conservative buzzwords because aesthetics is all the illiterate retards that vote righ care about. The SL promises a massive crackdown on football hooliganism so if they accomplidh that i wouldnt care if everything else fails.

>>2941986
As other anon pointed out. It's dumb as fuck because Vuvic was pro-EU, pro-IMF, pro-Zionist and sold weapons to Ukraine.
Geopol obsessed multipolaristas are brainrotten. It's all moldy slush inside their heads.

>>2943322
And now thanks to the support of the western left Serbia has a regime of petite bourgeois western educated intellectuals who are even more pro-EU and pro-Ukraine. But at least you got to heckin own the chuds right?

>>2943329
>petite bourgeois
I thought they were student ivory tower intellectuals?
>pro-EU
status quo
>pro-Ukraine
don't care (nor do I care about russian nationalists being butthurt over this)

>>2943295
>if you wanna push leftism, you have to infuse it with a shitton of nationalist and conservative buzzwords
and let me guess, you know this because the reactionaries and neoliberals told you so. or better yet, you got this vibe from mass media

>a massive crackdown on football hooliganism
so we have abandoned any pretense of leftism and this is just a liberal agenda. despite the fact that, as you know very well, the hooligans exist because they are useful for the neoliberal order. I guess they can replace hooligan enforcement of the state with police enforcement of the state

>>2943359
>and let me guess, you know this because the reactionaries and neoliberals told you so
I know it from living in Serbia.
>so we have abandoned any pretense of leftism and this is just a liberal agenda. despite the fact that, as you know very well, the hooligans exist because they are useful for the neoliberal order. I guess they can replace hooligan enforcement of the state with police enforcement of the state
I genuinely dont know what thia even means. I would of course ideally want there to be no police but they are better than state sponsored gangs terrorizing the population. I dont understand how hating hooliganism is anti leftist. The SL isnt perfect but they are a step in the right direction. I am not partial to any current political organization or entity in the country and while the SL is not even close to my ideology and beliefs, they are an unique opportunity to turn the force of the state against those that actually deserve it.

>>2943329
>And now thanks to the support of the western left Serbia has a regime of petite bourgeois western educated intellectuals who are even more pro-EU and pro-Ukraine
So the standard of how good a country is is how cucked to Putin they are?
>But at least you got to heckin own the chuds right?
Yes, except without a hint of irony.

muh Russia

>The list's programme states that Serbia will not take part in what it describes as Israel's "systematic attempt to destroy the Palestinian people", and pledges to increase humanitarian aid to Palestine.[53][55]
This is why shartyfag seethes.

Actually scrap that
>>2943401
This makes more sense

So, there was a bank failure in Serbia. Yesterday at like 2 AM, the NBS (Serbia's central bank) revoked the banking license of a bank called Alta Bank. It has ceased operations, the employees have been told not to come anymore and it'll enter bankruptcy proceedings.
This was a shady bank started by some SNS guy a few years ago. SNS directly helped it by having a bunch of state companies open accounts there, and the state utility companies in particular switched to people paying bills into accounts at Alta. They also had a payment processor called Alta Pay, and they bought out some supermarket chains too. They had some deals for various financial products that were better than other banks in Serbia.
There doesn't seem to be much information about what actually happened. NBS revoked their license because Alta lost their liquidity or because the NBS judged that was very likely to happen. It's not yet public information why. I've heard claims on the Internet that there was a bank run caused by state companies transferring all their money to another bank, or private SNS-affiliated companies did that, or that there was no bank run at all and the owner of Alta moved the reserves of the Serbian branch of Alta to branches in other countries. Some opposition politician claimed that the owner of Alta withdrew Alta's reserves at NBS, in a transfer approved directly by the NBS governor (a SNS/SRS politician), and that made Alta's reserves at NBS fall under the legal requirement.

Especially affected by this bank failure is the community of Russians who immigrated here because of the 2022-present sanctions or the SMO draft. Because all the banks Serbian citizens actually use are owned in whole or in part by banks from the EU, Russians can't open accounts there. Their choices then were the wholly Serbian-owned Alta Bank, some Russian bank called API bank which they avoid (apparently because they think it sends their information to the FSB or something like that) and the state bank called Postanska stedionica (which has a bad reputation of being outdated and only retirees using it). So that means many of them are left with just what they had in cash because their accounts at Alta are frozen. An even bigger issue is that many of them use a scheme where they founded a company when they came to Serbia, opened a bank account for their company and then signed a contract between their company and their employer (who they were employed to in Russia and who moved to Serbia) in order to work, and get a residency permit based on the company they founded. This used to be easier in the first couple of years because the EU banks still wanted to work with them, but for the past few years they all used Alta. Apparently their best choice now is Postanska stedionica, which is reportedly dysfunctional to the point where it takes months to open an account there, and I've seen claims that some Russians get rejected even by Postanska stedionica.
According to the deposit insurance law, the government will be paying out up to 50k euros per person/company who had an account at Alta, but you probably have to have an account somewhere else in order to receive that. And some, of course, had more than that in their accounts. The loans and other financial products still exist, but we'll have to see how the bankruptcy proceedings go to see which bank will get them and when.

>>2943359
>and let me guess, you know this because the reactionaries and neoliberals told you so. or better yet, you got this vibe from mass media
This is very obvious if you ever visited Serbia.
I'm not Serb, I just happened to stay in Belgrade during a month in the past, back then the students were blocking the Kneza Miloša avenue, near the parliament and the presidential palace.

I had some of the most interesting political conversations in my life with Serbs and a Montenegrin lady, they have a really different perspective of world dynamics, due to them being the "bad guys" of the Yugoslav wars and getting ultimately bombed by NATO in 1999.
They know very well they did unsavory things during the wars, but at the same time, it kinda crazy how someone you assumed to be a total normie can drop you a "Americans got involved in Kosovo to build a military base" in the middle of a convo.
The more I learned about their history, the more it made sense, and I guess they appreciated my perspective on world politics, which I honestly gained from /leftypol/. And they don't hate Tito (unlike Albanians who absolutely hate Enver Hoxha).

This is why I believe Serb anons here when they say it's not your typical "color revolution", like the pro-EU protests in Georgia from two years ago, and that the plenums have been important in decision making so far. The protestors I've interacted with had a very different mindset than any other I've met in my own country or a few others.

However, Serbs are not your average woke American liberals for sure.
I saw a drag queen show there, but you could tell being a twink or gay or LGBT whatever is not well-regarded at all, might even get you beaten up.
Moreover they have a ton of insecurity about their status in the world, despite their surface image as big chads who don't give a fuck (which they are to a certain degree). That's why they like Tito, because back then Yugoslavia was a powerful and important non-aligned country.

I also remember seeing a huge banner in the streets saying "Remember that Kosovo, Prishtina and Vojvodina are Serbia!!!". Kosovo, okay I can understand why they seethe and cope, even though it's ruled by Albanians now, it has an important place in the founding mythos of Serbia, but Vojvodina??? Why mention that? Yes Vojvodina is Serbia, nobody is contesting that. Is there a Hungarian separatist movement in Novi Sad I'm unaware of, or something??

Since they are "bad guys", and they lost the wars in the end, they tend to cope with excessive national pride and conspiracies about the Vatican. As a tourist, it's rather funny and I liked hearing about their perspectives on things, as long as you are open and respectful they will be too, but as a Serb living there, it might be a completely different ball game.

So yes, I imagine you can't just impose your mega-woke ideology on Serbian plenums just like that, completely divorced from the context, and pretend you are above it all. No, this country has a peculiar history, and I guess mega-woke people have to deal with it.

>so we have abandoned any pretense of leftism and this is just a liberal agenda.
This is what multipolaristas do all the time. Their excuse for every national bourgeoisie is "if they win against the US, they will more chance for a worldwide communist revolution later on", as if the national bourgeoisies of the world were ready to dissolve their private property if you gently ask them after the collapse of the US empire.

Nobody said the student movement is ultra-left or whatever. It is however, a true democratic movement from the bottom-up so far, which shows you can oust a neoliberal autocrat who has been in power for 12 years, and maybe aspire for something better in the long-run. It's possible, it literally happened.
But nobody is delusional enough to believe Serbs as a whole are giga Stalin-pilled or Bakunin-pilled or whatever.

>>2943384
You got to understand that this site is full of Russian nationalists and russophiles who latch on everything that's negative to their agenda.

A lot of the discourse in this thread reminds me of the discourse surrounding Rojava in the aftermath of the Assad government’s fall. You had a lot of people arguing that Rojava was an independent socialist project and that it had a popular support base unlike the Assad government.

In the end, the YPJ ended up folding in a matter of days and now that entire Kurdish led progressive project is in the process of being incorporated into a neoliberal, Islamist state run by a former Al-Qaeda terrorist.

I personally don’t want it to be true, but I suspect that the student list has already been co opted and in the end will end up serving the interests of Washington and Brussels.

The SL is in fact already in the process of winding down relations with Russia and subordinating Serbia to Western interests.
https://www.ft.com/content/c478c8b6-789f-4253-8970-1244b93c1cce?syn-25a6b1a6=1

A year from now, relations with China and Russia will likely be significantly worse, weapon shipments to Ukraine and Israel will probably increase and overall quality of life will probably be no better.

>>2944080
oh no, not russia and china!

>>2944080
>The SL is in fact already in the process of winding down relations with Russia and subordinating Serbia to Western interests.
Do you have a problem with the fact that the ruling class and the SNS set up this bank for their shady business, pushed petty-bourgeois Russians fleeing the Holy War for the Donbass into this shady bank, and used the bank for their shady business? The SNS is still the ruling party because there was no transition, so this is entirely on Vučić & co. Did you read this one? >>2943729 or are you just shitting and pissing all over yourself.

THE STUDENT MOVEMENT PURGED ITS LIBERAL AND PRO-EU and PRO-US ELEMENTS
THE STUDENT MOVEMENT ORGANIZED VILLAGERS AGAINST RIO TINTO
THE STUDENT MOVEMENT WANTS TO PUT SANCTIONS ON ISRAEL
THE STUDENT MOVEMENT GREW OUT OF SOVIET-LIKE MASS ORGANIZING
THE STUDENT MOVEMENT IS NOT FUNDED BY ANY CENTRALLY LED IMPERIALIST ORGANIZATION
THIS IS NOT UKRAINE
THIS IS NOT ROJAVA
KEEP SEETHING MULTIPOLAROID

>>2943807
>but Vojvodina??? Why mention that?
Every few years the land of choice that needs to be protected changes. After Kosovo was sold, SNS needed a new nationalist spin. Claiming that the students will give independence to Vojvodina was one of these tactics. And so vote Vučić to protect Vojvodina.

>>2944080
>In the end, the YPJ ended up folding in a matter of days
Months, but ok

>>2944080
But the Student List does have a popular support base right now? We saw it on the election results.
And the SL isn't particularly leftist, and for the SM, while it's more left than anything in the mainstream politics of Serbia for decades, isn't particularly communist or anarchist. It seems they don't even have anything about introducing more direct democracy in the program, even though the SM is based on the principles of direct democracy.
Why I think the SM is special in the world's politics is because this kind of movement gaining this much support and succeeding at electoralism isn't something that happened elsewhere as far as I know.
I don't know how applicable this would be for leftist groups in the world, since the SM, due to how it works, is a mix of people of all sorts of ideologies instead of being a concentrated leftist effort, and the support it got was also from all sorts of places on the "ideological spectrum" of Serbia.

https://www.idcommunism.com/2026/10/serbia-whole-list-of-monopolies-and-geopolitical-rivalries-behind-the-student-list.html

The Serbian bourgeoisie's particular contemporary divisions seem to create a lot of ambivalence in terms of geopolitical direction.

Anyway, the new government seems likely to mostly move ahead with further liberalization reforms internally, perhaps with a bit more transparency & competitive bidding on gov. contracts, procurement, etc.

Ultimately there isn't a big change to be expected from a marxist & socialist perspective.

>>2944715
> It seems they don't even have anything about introducing more direct democracy in the program
Their program includes making plenums a legitimate form of organizing and making student councils n universities that will have a direct say in running the country and if that suceeds, its going to be a pretty big deal as nothing like that has existed so far anywhere. While not overtly leftist, what happened in Serbia is definitely looking more like a revolution than a simple regime change. Also the guy whos likely to become minister of police is a firebrand leftist who idolizes Robespierre unironically and if he is given that position, he said he will arrest literally half the current political estabilishment of Serbia (and trust me, the charges wont be unfounded)

>>2944769

I honestly doubt we see any significant changes.

There isn't really an organized communist party or hell even a working class oriented organization that has the kind of organization, discipline & power to push things forward in socialist direction (or even a radical socdem direction). A few radical sounding cheerleaders.

In fact, is the same "anti-corruption" grievance based upsurge we have seen for the nry time since forever. orange rev, arab spring, kurdish movement, maidan, etc. Its not even Syriza level rhetoric & opportunism.

I don't mean to be too much of a negative nancy, I am just saying, if you are not just a pro-western liberal here trolling, prepare yourself for a lot of disappointment, if not your illusions being shattered outright.

>>2944867
Why are you ignoring the structural difference? This is a student and citizen movement, organized in soviet bodies, with broad support by the working class. There is no 'leader' than can sell out, and the few times a couple of people were pushed by the EU to be a 'leader' was quickly shut down by the plenums of more radical faculties. Like, come on! Of course there is no communist party or a working class organization because Western society has been depoliticized in the last 30 years and to get to working class politics you first need to get to class politics. We are just exiting the Kulturkrieg.

>>2945002

See my prior post here: >>2944728

https://www.idcommunism.com/2026/10/serbia-whole-list-of-monopolies-and-geopolitical-rivalries-behind-the-student-list.html

I will add as a tangent, that I see leaderlessness as a weakness, not a strength, when it comes to communist organization. Without a strong center its difficult to push forward a coherent programme amongst various factions, and to break deadlocks & sclerosis.

But none of this is socialist or communist politics anyways, as I said before, and mere representative bodies have existed for thousands of years. "Without a proper Communist Party, there can be no new Serbia."

>>2945654
I don't want a new Serbia, I want socialism

>>2945654
>I will add as a tangent, that I see leaderlessness as a weakness, not a strength, when it comes to communist organization. Without a strong center its difficult to push forward a coherent programme amongst various factions, and to break deadlocks & sclerosis.
Hasn't every socialist state to ever exist suffered from its leaderfullness, having large swings in political positions every time there is a leader transition? And for USSR and SFRY, eventually leading to their demise.

>>2945823

1. The negation of something is not necessarily its opposite. That's fallacious reasoning.
   
   

In this case opposing leaderlessness does not necessarily mean endorsing complete power concentration in a single person or function.

1. Its not the gensec of the cpsu that ultimately destroyed the USSR (though gorby & co. did accelerate things for sure). Rather in the long term its the cultivation of petit-bourgeois stratum in the USSR, enabled by kosygin reforms but which does have precedents in the directors funds beforehand for example.
   
   

Even in the short term, if anything we can say its the weakness of the state apparatus & the federal structure that enabled higher degrees of devolution of powers towards the republics that led to complete disintegration (instead of slow degeneration as in China)

>>2945665
One foot after the other, no magic button

I think this thread should last at least long enough to see who had egg on their faces, when the smoke clears.

>>2945654
>Without a strong center its difficult
So not impossible. You are sloganeering and the arguments presented in idcom are weak, mostly just regurgitating truisms with a bit of general information sprinkled around.

>>2946900

Its also not physically impossible for the bourgeoisie to get together & abolish capitalism.

Its the absence of a guiding center that subordinates all property to its command that makes it "difficult" for such a thing to happen. This is because the game theoretical logic favors those capitalists that defect from such an action, even though it would in their collective interest to cease destructive competition.

A similar logic applies to leaderless movements. Without a strong center they tend to fracture & fail to achieve even their proclaimed minimum aims. This is even more fatal for a communist movements, which I remind, is not at all what the sl is in Serbia, not even rhetorically.

That aside, if you think the underlying argument presented in Rizospastis is weak, offer a proper rebuttal, instead of accusing it of doing what you are doing (pure rhetoric). A reminder that the core argument that the article is making is that what is occuring in Serbia:

1. Is not socialist/communist politics, not even in an opportunist socdemized form.
   
   
2. That it has the support of a variety of forces, including elements both the European & Russian bourgeoisie, as quoted in the article.
   
   
3. That sl has deliberately downplayed geopolitical alignment in order to seek maneuvering room in its goal to reoriented domestic Serbian capitalism.
   
   

>>2946895

Completely fair. I for one will be overjoyed to be wrong and that in fact SL (or the SM that backs it) somehow, against its stated objectives, begins a radical transition towards socialism.

I doubt I will be wrong though.

>>2947253
I'm disregarding your argument because it addresses a strawman. No one claims the SL will bring socialism about, but that the SL proved that mass organizing in soviet-bodies and progressive more class-oriented politics are popular among the working class.

>>2944728
I do agree that this isn't some socialist revolution or whatever, and that it's not a particularly radical social democrat program compared to what some European countries have. But that article has some strange inaccuracies. I don't know Greek, so maybe some of these issues are only in the English translation.
First, there's some minor ones like getting wrong the number of injured in the collapse, Srdanovic's surname and his medical specialization. Second, he writes about the creation of the SL in a conspiratorial tone, as if he believes that the SM didn't actually make the list. But it's simply the fact that the students in the SM, when looked at collectively, hold liberal views. This is simply because that is currently the dominant ideology in Serbia and the world. Any sort of anti-capitalist current can only support the social democracy style demands since the rest of the movement wouldn't accept anything more radical. Which is the reason why the SL and its program looks the way it does, and not because someone else gave it to them.
Then, he supposes there is a conspiracy by a portion of the Serbian bourgeoisie that made that happen in order to change Serbia's geopolitical positioning. Like I just said, I doubt there was any such conspiracy to create the SL. The portions of the bourgeoisie that support the SL simply just attached themselves to it, because they do not mind it and they do mind SNS. As for the geopolitical claims, the text seems to imply that Rio Tinto is a Chinese interest opposed by the EU. This is either a misunderstanding of the situation or a weird interpretation, since it's seen as an EU interest here in Serbia, with a Chinese company having a small stake in the project.
He also mentions Chinese companies in the beginning when talking about the canopy collapse. They are pretty much always mentioned in Western coverage, however, in Serbia they're not really a focus. The focus is on SNS and their incompetence and unaccountably, which is seen as being caused by corruption.
As for the NKPJ, I don't think many people consider them a serious party, and the Russian Party directly works with SNS. The radical left is quite nonexistent on the Serbian political scene, and literally nonexistent if you consider only parties that contest elections.
In the text's conclusion, the author claims that the SM has as its goal incorruptible capitalism, however, I do not think it is that radical even in the anti-corruption direction. I think that SM/SL supporters will be satisfied if the SL manages to reduce corruption to an acceptable level, not demanding a society without any corruption. And of course, since the SM is an anti-SNS movement, there are various reasons people support them other than the SM's anti-corruption demands.

>>2947868
>He also mentions Chinese companies in the beginning when talking about the canopy collapse.
He has to, he's talking for the KKE, they hold sinophobic positions. What leftists reported on was the fact that construction laws were amended to accept lower standards after western lobbying so that projects like EXPO and similar can be done faster and with less popular intervention.

>>2947868

You are reading in conspiratorial elements where there is just standard marxist analysis.

The KKE doesn't claim that there is no organic base for the demands of the movement. Of course people are dissatisfied with how things are going (at all levels, this is true all over the world, just see the outrage the train disaster provoked In Greece by comparison).

What the article is however claiming is that the bourgeoisie (which is by definition I remind everybody, is a class divided itself) are maneuvering to influence the movement in their interest. Which means contradictions both between domestic & foreign capital, Russian Chinese & European, petit vs. large, state procurement dependent va. non, etc, etc, etc.

It is not only anti-marxist, but actually naive to assume there are aren't any attempts at cooptation & direction, as well as much influence it various ngos & foreign intelligence. This doesn't at all imply that the root causes of the eruption & formation of these protest movements are unreal, unjustified, etc.

>>2947729

You are creating the strawman; the main thrust of the argument is that is not even progressive or even opportunist. The argument is against having any illusions that this will bring about significant change, beyond perhaps what >>2947868 mentioned (a little bit less corruption; Although I read their program as more transparent & thorough liberalization instead of haphazard & crony based version).

>>2947875

We consider China as a capitalist & imperialist country (of a weaker variety compared to the USA & some European countries to be sure).

You can categorically disagree with this position, but it has nothing to do with hating the chinese on an ethnic basis, which is a frankly shameful flat out lie by you.

>>2948067

*a class divided against itself

>>2948067
>You are reading in conspiratorial elements where there is just standard marxist analysis.

I am referring to this paragraph:
>In May 2025, a process began to establish a political movement that would capitalize on the prestige of the student mobilizations, which had already continued for six months, as well as on the support of student assemblies and the leaders of the protests. In effect, these bodies gave their endorsement to the movement, even though not a single current student stood as a candidate.

This is written like the SL is something that was formed by third parties and the SM simply endorsed it, when actually the SM formed the SL and picked each candidate in a process that took a year and a few months. This is why I called it conspiratorial, it supposes that there was some conspiracy to "capitalize on the prestige" of the SM and form the SL that was then rubber stamped by the SM. I don't think that such a thing happened, or could happen quietly because of the decentralized nature of the SM. And the fact there were no student candidates was an explicit decision that was decided when formulating the plan for the formation of the SL, and was a part of the main set of criteria for candidates.