France is burning again, high-schoolers and students are blocking and rioting everywhere since three days. Firefighters are also on semi strike, they continue to intervene but with "ON STRIKE" on all their strikes. Farmers are also starting a movement, and yellow vest were due to return on 17 october but might happen sooner.
Even high-schools in countryside and right wing areas are blocking and rioting!
I'll text my brown femboy friend in Lyon immediately and tell him to stay safe.
>>2924215what is this about and why?
>>2924222A bit about everything, partly about their schools conditions(a lot of schools are scruffy), there's a huge teacher vacant positions for teachers so a lot of students don't have teaching for some course. Also it's a lot more about general thing, like against Macron, the cost of life and everything
>>2924223>>2924223And police brutality, it has been huge these last few days. A high schooler may have lost an eye
800 people had already been arrested this morning by police in the whole country during the three days(so probably 1000-1500 now)
proles are getting uppity? must be CIA
Macron and gov start to be afraid "The high school student movement is upending the government's agenda: all ministerial trips are cancelled until at least Monday. (BFMTV)"
is that their 5th revolution?
what are they protesting for rn?
>>2924219bro really had darude sandstorm as a honk
"The Prime Minister fears that the high school student crisis could drag on for months, potentially lasting until the presidential election. His advisors—including several former prefects—are observing an unprecedented "convergence of struggles" between young people from the suburbs and those from city centers, hailing from vastly different social backgrounds. (Loïc Besson - BFMTV)"
>>2924235All cops are predators
>>2924241again what the fuck they're protesting against?
i know they do that like every 4 months or so but i can't find a reason behind it this time.
>>2924255As long as the government doesn't resolve shit there's always more reason to riot
>>2924255>A bit about everything, partly about their schools conditions(a lot of schools are scruffy), there's a huge teacher vacant positions for teachers so a lot of students don't have teaching for some course. Also it's a lot more about general thing, like against Macron, the cost of life and everythingAnd police brutality
pretty cool but they do this like every year and nothing changes, cringe shit like this shows its mostly just a platform for centre left liboids to try and gain some votes and an excuse for the police to stamp down on the proles with mass arrests
its good actually but its ritualized and directionless enough to not seriously threaten power and be used by cynical political actors to advance careers while still upholding kensyian/hitlerite economics and class consensus.
>>2924225>>2924221meant to highlight these
why is jvpiter still president? I feel like he has been president for so long its kind of like Putin
>Student protests
>"Cost of living" complaints
Yep, it's a color revolution.
>>2924266why do glowies want to regime change macron? is he multipolar?
>>2924259they seem always angry and compared to mine, france isn't that bad.
>>2924260okay thanks
>>2924266>>2924268I think its less of that and more of a excuse to arrest a bunch of radicals. The 'left' of France are happy to put all these lambs out for ritual slaughter and state brutalization without giving them anything but vague platitudes to be mad about - cant have them actually overthrowing the state or demanding something revolutionary.
The French are as good as co-opting protest movements as they are at starting them.
>>2924266Ah yes, the color revolution happening against noted imperial periphery multipolar anti-imperialist leader…Emanual Macron…
>>2924271the epstein class fears jvpiterian evropa…
>>2924266Lol it's mainly high schoolers so far, and no it's not a color revolution lol Macron is US/CIA aligned
>>2924266The real evidence is that they have phones. Phones are the modern tracking devices of the CIA.
>>2924278in the 21st century we are all glowies
>>2924278no phone no case
>>2924279>in the 21st century we are all glowiesTrvke
>>2924263Having a population that is willing to engage in this kind of civil disobedience is a prerequisite to actually getting shit done, but yeah, it requires actual direction and preferably not just to fuel some reformist program. It does seem the French establishment is quite numb to these upheavals though seeing as this indeed seems to happen every year.
>>2924219>darude sandstorm hornpeak
>>2924283the farmers are more likely to achieve what they want thru more direct and targeted action, the students seem too invested in it being funny than angry and as such seem neutered in comparison.
'- The government believes that "we are experiencing" a "tipping point into violence" amidst the blockades of high schools across France. (LCI)'
Gov is preparing minds for even more repression
>>2924286True, what are the farmers' politics and demands? Over here it seems like an entirely right wing project supported by the big agricultural lobby.
The highschoolers are the barometer of of social pressure in this country, almost every time they rise up something big follows. I would know I blocked my highschool a decade and something ago, retards might be trying to explain everything rationally and give reasons and demands but really it boils down to the youth having enough of the mountain of shit accumulating and going for chaos and power struggle instead of shutting the fuck up like they are told.
Unlike when I did it the government is just unleashing violence in the hopes of stamping that out and that's extremely stupid of them and good for us because there is no hierarchized org yield, it just radicalizes the hormonal teenagers who feel invincible and their families and friends.
The next months in France will be very fun, I hope we can hang some billionaires to lamp posts and be an example for the world once again
>>2924290Cheaper diesel, aligns them with anti-war movements which the right have mostly managed to capture thru a eu-sceptic and anti-immigrant stance.
Its what happens when the left cedes the ground to the center-liberals on Ukraine and Palestine, they become unable to address the cost of living crisis caused by said wars and allow easy anti-immigrant rhetoric to take hold.
>>2924219It's all fun and based until you discover the farmer's pet issue is that they aren't allowed to vaporize pesticides near schoolgrounds.
>>2924295and despite all my critiques I hope this is the case
>The next months in France will be very fun, I hope we can hang some billionaires to lamp posts and be an example for the world once again >>2924294based adventurists
>>2924296That's too bad. In The Netherlands it's all about NOx emissions.
>>2924296What ground was ceded in France? The sucdem left (LFI) is eurosceptic, pushes for NATO exit and a negotiated peace between Ukraine and Russia and is constantly being attacked as being pro-kremlin for this, yet the farmers hate them. It's simple, the farmers are brainwashed people who listen to billionaire radio in their tractor in the morning and billionaire tv in the evening before going to sleep and they hate this more than the PAC. It's not about having good positioning it's about we need to kill capitalists and destroy their propaganda machine asap
>>2924303true but you're being disingenuous if you dont think a lot of the rural population arent going far right because the left is failing to reach them
>>2924308Youriiii la base
>>2924309>>2924303Is this not more so the fault of PS than LFI? I feel like there is a common thread in many countries where the traditional Bourgeois worker's party fucks everything up completely and the rest of the left gets to share the blame, which then presents an opening for the far right.
French government is currently adding fuel to the fire, they just announced
-Family allowances (“allocations familiales”) would be frozen at their current level in 2027. They would not receive their usual inflation-linked increase, normally applied every 1 April.
-The activity bonus, paid to many low-income workers, is also included among the benefits that would be frozen.
-APL housing assistance would be frozen at its 2026 level rather than receiving the usual increase.
-For Pensions above €1,260/month pension increases would be limited/sub-indexed rather than fully following inflation.
-Some public-sector positions would be eliminated, while Defence, Justice and Interior are among the areas receiving additional resources.
-Tighter rules on sick-pay/medical leave
>>2924309I think it's true albeit, I was doing the vendanges in the countryside recently and I educated a few people who had strong negative opinions about megabassines and transfolks, it just took a bit a of trust and a conversation to bring them to understanding gender dysphoria or how the megabassines were made for the huge companies and not the average farmers. I don't even really care about those subjects but I studied them and simply and respectfully passed my knowledge while letting them form their opinion and bam. This is why the gilets jaunes worked also, it was a big transfer of knowledge and turned out that people don't care about immigration and skin color but begin to question class issues after a little bit of that
>>2924317yeah this is what im getting at really, they are usually open to considering what you're saying its just reaching them that is the difficult part
>>2924314yes this is the typical dynamic, although the soc-dems involved never do themselves any favours with them typically just agreeing to vote for the center/center right blocs to keep the 'real' bad guys out
>>2924317
>I think it's true albeit, I was doing the vendanges in the countryside recently and I educated a few people who had strong negative opinions about megabassines and transfolks, it just took a bit a of trust and a conversation to bring them to understanding gender dysphoria or how the megabassines were made for the huge companies and not the average farmers. I don't even really care about those subjects but I studied them and simply and respectfully passed my knowledge while letting them form their opinion and bam. This is why the gilets jaunes worked also, it was a big transfer of knowledge and turned out that people don't care about immigration and skin color but begin to question class issues after a little bit of thatExactly!!
>>2924323
You don't know what you are talking about, even in the deepcountry side high schools were blocked.
Go back to /pol/
GIGA
BURN THE BOURGS NOW
>>2924329I think the kids are alright
>>2924266I know this is sarcasm but you have to wonder if they've just gotten tired of Macron's stupidity or would rather release the tension now before he hands the country to fashoids. Not to say that he isn't some form of fascist himself, but the EU is spooked about optically neutral shitlibs getting toppled and want to ensure the blocks fall in the right direction.
Brain says NOTHING
Heart says SOMETHING
The kids are alright
>>2924405It means our french comrades need to get jobs as teachers, to educate the radicalized youth.
>>2924405For them it means no class at all, which is cool if you like to miss course, but bad if you want to get a good grade and get into good higher education, and the lack of teacher is happening in the poorest zones
Nothingburger
It’s another controlled burn
I honestly find it incredible that students would strike for better provision in schools that would never happen here.
>>2924410>controlled burndoes this help porky with the overproduction crisis like inter-imperialist war does?
>>2924412>here.burgervolk?
If you just looked up the voting recording for National Rally across last few French parliamentary elections, and felt a shiver across your back, that's normal.
>>2924432I felt a shiver cause their kids fighting cops will make them vote LFI, but only a shiver because fuck social democracy I want communism
>>2924425Yeah. Ive made peace with it being over and am focusing on my friends and loved ones recently. You gotta help what you can help.
>>2924442fuck off loving your family and friends then, it's a social movement not a well adjusted people magnet
1900+ arrested during those three days
>>2924439Western civilization has fallen.
French cops suck so much, send them all into uranium mines or something
>>2924222Everything sucks and these children have nothing but misery for their future, what do you want? Let them rage, if you have young family members you should constantly remind them how absolutely fucked they are and how they got fucked by everyone who holds authority over them. The cops are just confirming this, this is the norm now, no government is even thinking about acting against climate change, they are only looking at ways to repress the inevitable backlash.
>>2924472>acting against climate changeIdk leftychud, the protest doesn't look like it's about climate.
>>29244841) It are very general protests about their ridiculous conditions as students
2) students have repeatedly stated that sitting in a classroom that is +35°C is unbearable and unfit for learning
3) A whole lot of then are smart enough to see that they will just inherit a completely broken shitstorm, even I knew that already.
But tell me, what do you think it's a bout oh great sage of the imageboards
>>2924496It wasn't a multiple choice question, these are some of the vague reasons they are blocking the schools. Loads of kids stuck in shitty rooms with 30 students and +30 degree heat for 2 months while their parents and schools can't afford food, cooking or heating
But fuck this, my initial reaction wasn't about this or me, it was that
>>2924222 is a stupid, meaningless question because they have nothing to do at this point then to protest
something similar happened in india a while back (students protesting for education reforms) and look what their weeks of protesting brought about: virtually nothing, only symbolic concessions like the resignation of the education minister and some vague promises to do better next time
i guess this isnt similar because muptiple groups are agitating for a vide range of issues but still
>highschoolers riot just to not have to go to class
<leftypol: is this the start of the communist revolution???
Be dialectical.
>students riot just to avoid going to school
True, actually.
>this is the start of communist revolution guys
Also true, since getting people used to disorder and riot as well as giving them direct experience in what creates change and what doesn't is gonna be useful the next time tensions build up and explode into mass civil disobedience. Two contradictory statements can be true at once.
>>2924561this is the start of the rightwing backlash and mass deportations
>>2924561>Also true, since getting people used to disorder and riot as well as giving them direct experience in what creates change and what doesn't is gonna be useful the next time tensions build up and explode into mass civil disobedience. yeah but they are getting to learn student struggle, it doesnt necessarily translate to proletarian struggle which is what actually matters
all student movements did where I live was create a new generation of neolib politicians at the end now that I think about it lol
>>2924215from what i've seen on other parts of the internet it's being portrayed as immigrant kids rioting and killing police and french teachers regardless of the actual circumstances
>>2924564>yeah but they are getting to learn student struggle, it doesnt necessarily translate to proletarian struggle which is what actually mattersAll correct.
>all student movements did where I live was create a new generation of neolib politicians at the end now that I think about it lolSame as my country.
Even with all that being true, people like literally (you) can see these things and learn from them developing a more sophisticated consciousness, and there's of course the people in those movements that actually did want real change and became disillusioned who will become a force. So even if it's all a sham meant to halt real progress and even if it actually does mostly succeed fact is real progress still emerges, as it can't help to.
>>2924221who is the guy on the left one?
>>2924558Not my impression of the general opinion here. Also, why be so demeaning to these kids as if this is just one big excuse to skip class when it seems like this has arisen from lots and lots of genuine grievances?
great, they can elect the far right fascist government even easier now
>>2924606Lmao, why? Parents get their children beaten up and disfigured by cops while they are forced to sit In rotten buildings with worthless education, LFI is the only group protecting and supporting the teachers and students, for anyone who isn't glued 24/24 to BFMTV and Cnews it's really obvious.
>>2924255Lack of funds.
Overcrowded classrooms.
Professors who leave don't get replaced, sometimes for a whole year, which is a big problem when it's your final year and have to undertake the baccalauréat exam.
No heating during winter.
No ventilation during summer heatwaves.
Macron's reforms on the access to universities were a fucking mess (Parcoursup, he destroyed a system that was working fine to replace it with something completely opaque and absurd nobody understands, one of the first things he did after gaining power).
And France in general is going to shit and high-school students aren't stupid.
>inb4 how can a first-world country have no funds for public schoolsNewsflash: the bourgeois state is not your friend.
French cops pointing assault rifles to students in toulouse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G36 the weapon in question.
>>2924606They can and are willing to burn down schools, but they somehow fail at getting a city hall? Nah.
>>2924606>the symptom caused the sickness!t. retards
>>2924674That’s not what they’re saying at all. What does burning a school accomplish? Are any of the burning schools even private?
Shots are being heard at toulouse around Arènes
>>2924684Adventurist tard
>>2924712
t. visegrad ziorats
>>2924712
If only the rioters were more white
>>2924706
>posting Visegrad unironically
>>2924712
Rightist damage control enabled
>>2924757Idk who they think they're fooling posting literally NATO-Azovite rags seething about how those dirty browns are trying to destroy France with rioting. As we all know, white French people would never dream of rioting lmao.
>>2924770
Schools? Dont you mean upper class ideology indoctrination centers?
>>2924742
So say that or that they are directionless, unorganized and won't amount to anything like other people have said in this thread. I'd say two things can be true at once. Highschool aged children might want better conditions and also be retarded. There might also be people amongst them simply using it as an excuse for delinquency, but these kinds of excesses happen every time there is a big protest movement going on. Calling them ethnic riots when this shit happens all the time just seems no different than calling it a "chimp out" like /pol/tards would.
>>2924770
>Someone who burn a boulangerie does not want more bread
SMALL CAPITALIST ALERT. THIS BITCHASS LIKES SMALL CAPITALIST
>>2924788>>2924813You can just seize the boulangerie from the petite bourgeoisie though…
>>2924770
>if you want more money then why are you attacking a bank? Checkmate commies
my grandfather went to school in a two room village converted farm house along with sixty other kids from the village and was happy for the opportunity
really makes you think
>>2924847Back then school was a more or less guarantee to move up the social ladder. Now? It amplify the inequalities. Bougies kids have private tutors and nepotism privileges, proles kids gets scraps from a derelict institution that condemn them to gig economy and unemployment. The wrath is understandable.
>>2924851>The wrath is understandableThe targets are not
>>2924706>isn't a legitimate form of protest you dont get to decide what is a "legitimate form of protest", I consider burning cops and executive power symbols and representatives totally legitimate. At most you can say its not good PR. And 99.9% of protesters arent burning people or buildings anyway, its the usual mainstream media whining about "muh violence! its all illegitimate cause they're violent! look there a dumpster fire!" as if the cops werent the ones cracking heads.
>The national average is 22,2 kids per class. I spent my whole secondary cycle in 25-32 classes, and I dont believe things got better since. Just cause you have some spots lowering the average (especially early in education, as thats where the declining population is felt the fastest) doesnt mean you dont have plenty of places with way too big classrooms
>Maybe if teachers were not insulted and attacked you mean maybe if they had a decent fucking salary and all the new hires werent precarious contract workers
>that fucking headlinehilarious reactionary media. The ones filming didnt set the guy on fire (nobody actually "set him on fire", some aerosol put in a barricade blew up apparently), and typical obsession for muh migrants despite everyone depicted being french
>>2924676I personally suspect undercover cops/far right provocateurs to be the ones burning the schools. Some of those guys shots their fireworks at the protesting students…
>>2924877some people need to understand that the cops will be sending in masked people into the protest to enact violence on people and property to give them justification for violence and to legitimize the state narrative
>>2924888What do public schools have to do with the petite bourgeoisie?
just seems like an excuse to skip school.
whole thing is pointless and nothing will happen, it will just burn out and justify the state
>starting riots across the entire country just to skip school
its just too giga…
>>2924359>before he hands the country to fashoids.what do you think this is? like actually, what do you think the end result of all of this will be?
ultimately you're talking about elections, so what way do you think the liberals will vote when they see schools burning on the tv and the only two choices are the people burning the schools, and the right-wing
>>2924296>>2924303>>2924309it can't possibly be that they are defending their material interests, which align them with the right wing? you guys hate confronting this fact, don't you. 150+ posts and barely anyone talking about what the agribusinesses are protesting against
and stop calling them "farmers", these aren't peasants protesting against landlords or whatever. these are agribusinesses of the worst kind, these are the people that would rather triple tap everything with glyphosate than do math because numbers are gay and herbicides are cheap anyway. these people are the long-term version of gladio
and btw, I'm not saying that burning schools is bad
I'm saying that, politically speaking, this is a defeat
Reminder any protest or riot is just the bourgeois allowing you to throw a tantrum like a toddler to exhaust your energy before you go back to work like normal. It’s the same function as mardi gras and debt jubilees and bread and circuses.
>>2924876Yes they are, because there is no organisation beside social networks enhanced pack effects, the violence is channeled into attacking symbols rahter than strategic moves. They attack whatever incarnate The Man, business, public building, authority figures and so on and so forth.
>>2924914Literally anything outside the immediate seizure of power is a defeat, all else but power is illusory.
>>2924917not necessarily, sometimes things take time. building a movement for example is by itself a victory, even if it hasn't seized power yet
but yes, as the other anon said, disorganized small scale violence is useless and counter-productive. if you guys don't want to take my word for it, engels talked about this after a series of riots in germany back in the day:
>>>/edu/19326 >>2924925We don’t have time, civilization ending climate change and technology is already here and has been since the 40s
>>2924916>Yes they are, because there is no organisation beside social networks enhanced pack effects, the violence is channeled into attacking symbols rahter than strategic moves. They attack whatever incarnate The Man, business, public building, authority figures and so on and so forthPretty good argument, but even with this I’m still not seeing it. There is a limit to what can be excused by a lack of organization, and this goes directly against their stated complaints of “school degradation”. It’s just too contradictory.
>>2924925How can you look at the last 100 years of mass movement organizing as anything other than not just a failure, but a catastrophe that put all the cards in the hands of capital?
>>2924931A coherent strategy in adequation with relatively defined goals'' would require a level of political consciousness and understanding that angry teens do not have.
Right now they just see that shit's fucked and their reference when it comes to political action is the Gilets Jaunes on the news when they were kids.
>>2924939yes, yes I can
the current situation isn't perfect, but it is way better than it was 40 years ago. this doesn't mean that revolution is around the corner, but we are seeing the collapse of the liberal ideology, and with it, the collapse of fascism as a political movement. if you do marxist militancy you have probably noticed that people are becoming a lot more receptive to the messaging
>>2924945>A coherent strategy in adequation with relatively defined goals'' would require a level of political consciousness and understanding that angry teens do not have.I don’t expect a coherent strategy, but this seems a little too convenient for a bunch of angry teenagers to do. Graffiti and smashed windows seems to be more their liking.
Let me guess this will a period of unrest in which some are arrested and in the end it will result in liberals gaining more power
>>2924977
not really. the ultimate objective of fascism is to maintain the bourgeois order; at it's core it carries the same ideas. when the free market is discredited and becomes unpopular, all the parties to the left of stalin become unpopular
>>2924978
you're not passing as a marxist, btw
and to address your point: it's the other way around, cheap labor is one of the few things stopping the collapse. all the nonsense about migrants destroying white civilization is fascist slop that no one takes seriously, not even chuds
>>2924979>Graffiti and smashed windowsWhat are you? 45? Again, their point of reference is Gilet Jaunes and molotov cocktails thrown at cops.
>>2925010 (me)
To add nuance to that, most still don't resort to violence and just hold signs on top on screaming slogan. But with what they grew up with, burning shit isn't out of their "overton window" when it come to what can be done.
>>2925017Je ressemble à ça et je dis ça :D
>>2925046I can't read those documents but I'm guessing not at all. Probably will fizzle in a week or two achieving nothing.
>>2924916>They attack whatever incarnate The Man, business, public building, authority figures and so on and so forth.But that's not a man:
>>2924706 >>2925056What the fuck are you rambling about? This is the French riots thread.
>>2925059I don't know dog, setting women on fire is frowned upon in polite society:
>>2924706 >>2924215These French riots are an example of spontaneity, and communists must seize upon such situations before the spontaneous movement withers away or is co-opted by the bourgeoisie. Communists need to use this opportunity to spread their message and politicize more people, thereby strengthening the communist movement; otherwise, the bourgeoisie will demonize, defame, repress, and slander the spontaneous movement to foster apathy and strip the masses of their agency.
Another concern is the bourgeoisie attempting to co-opt the spontaneous movement to serve its own class interests. Therefore, one should be wary of rhetoric insisting that a movement must be "organic"—meaning free from communist influence—because the bourgeoisie will seek to infiltrate it regardless, and such rhetoric often masks this reality.
I will leave you with a quote from Lenin on spontaneity to help readers reflect on these situations:
<Since there can be no talk of an independent ideology formulated by the working masses themselves in the process of their movement,[15] the only choice is — either bourgeois or socialist ideology. There is no middle course (for mankind has not created a “third” ideology, and, moreover, in a society torn by class antagonisms there can never be a non-class or an above-class ideology). Hence, to belittle the socialist ideology in any way, to turn aside from it in the slightest degree means to strengthen bourgeois ideology. There is much talk of spontaneity. But the spontaneous development of the working-class movement leads to its subordination to bourgeois ideology, to its development along the lines of the Credo programme; for the spontaneous working-class movement is trade-unionism, is Nur-Gewerkschaftlerei, and trade unionism means the ideological enslavement of the workers by the bourgeoisie. Hence, our task, the task of Social-Democracy, is to combat spontaneity, to divert the working-class movement from this spontaneous, trade-unionist striving to come under the wing of the bourgeoisie, and to bring it under the wing of revolutionary Social Democracy. The sentence employed by the authors of the Economist letter published in Iskra, No. 12, that the efforts of the most inspired ideologists fail to divert the working-class movement from the path that is determined by the interaction of the material elements and the material environment is therefore tantamount to renouncing socialism. If these authors were capable of fearlessly, consistently, and thoroughly considering what they say, as everyone who enters the arena of literary and public activity should be, there would be nothing left for them but to “fold their useless arms over their empty breasts” and surrender the field of action to the Struves and Prokopoviches, who are dragging the working-class movement “along the line of least resistance”, i.e., along the line of bourgeois trade-unionism, or to the Zubatovs, who are dragging it along the line of clerical and gendarme “ideology”.
<Let us recall the example of Germany. What was the historic service Lassalle rendered to the German working-class movement? It was that he diverted that movement from the path of progressionist trade-unionism and co-operativism towards which it had been spontaneously moving (with the benign assistance of Schulze-Delitzsch and his like). To fulfil such a task it was necessary to do something quite different from talking of underrating the spontaneous element, of tactics-as-process, of the interaction between elements and environment, etc. A fierce struggle against spontaneity was necessary, and only after such a struggle, extending over many years, was it possible, for instance, to convert the working population of Berlin from a bulwark of the progressionist party into one of the finest strongholds of Social-Democracy. This struggle is by no means over even today (as might seem to those who learn the history of the German movement from Prokopovich, and its philosophy from Struve). Even now the German working class is, so to speak, split up among a number of ideologies. A section of the workers is organised in Catholic and monarchist trade unions; another section is organised in the Hirsch-Duncker[33] unions, founded by the bourgeois worshippers of English trade-unionism; the third is organised in Social-Democratic trade unions. The last-named group is immeasurably more numerous than the rest, but the Social-Democratic ideology was able to achieve this superiority, and will be able to maintain it, only in an unswerving struggle against all other ideologies.
<But why, the reader will ask, does the spontaneous movement, the movement along the line of least resistance, lead to the domination of bourgeois ideology? For the simple reason that bourgeois ideology is far older in origin than socialist ideology, that it is more fully developed, and that it has at its disposal immeasurably more means of dissemination.[16] And the younger the socialist movement in any given country, the more vigorously it must struggle against all attempts to entrench non-socialist ideology, and the more resolutely the workers must be warned against the bad counsellors who shout against “overrating the conscious element”, etc. The authors of the Economist letter, in unison with Rabocheye Dyelo, inveigh against the intolerance that is characteristic of the infancy of the movement. To this we reply: Yes, our movement is indeed in its infancy, and in order that it may grow up faster, it must become imbued with intolerance against those who retard its growth by their subservience to spontaneity. Nothing is so ridiculous and harmful as pretending that we are “old hands” who have long ago experienced all the decisive stages of the struggle.
<Thirdly, the first issue of Rabochaya Mysl shows that the term “Economism” (which, of course, we do not propose to abandon, since, in one way or another, this designation has already established itself) does not adequately convey the real character of the new trend. Rabochaya Mysl does not altogether repudiate the political struggle; the rules for a workers’ mutual benefit fund published in its first issue contain a reference to combating the government. Rabochaya Mysl believes, however, that “politics always obediently follows economics” (Rabocheye Dyelo varies this thesis when it asserts in its programme that “in Russia more than in any other country, the economic struggle is inseparable from the political struggle”). If by politics is meant Social-Democratic politics, then the theses of Rabochaya Mysl and Rabocheye Dyelo are utterly incorrect. The economic struggle of the workers is very often connected (although not inseparably) with bourgeois politics, clerical politics, etc., as we have seen. Rabocheye Dyelo’s theses are correct, if by politics is meant trade union politics, viz., the common striving of all workers to secure from the government measures for alleviating the distress to which their condition gives rise, but which do not abolish that condition, i.e., which do not remove the subjection of labour to capital. That striving indeed is common to the English trade-unionists, who are hostile to socialism, to the Catholic workers, to the “Zubatov” workers, etc. There is politics and politics. Thus, we see that Rabochaya Mysl does not so much deny the political struggle, as it bows to its spontaneity, to its unconsciousness. While fully recognising the political struggle (better: the political desires and demands of the workers), which arises spontaneously from the working-class movement itself, it absolutely refuses independently to work out a specifically Social-Democratic politics corresponding to the general tasks of socialism and to present-day conditions in Russia.[…]
<Footnotes:
<[15] This does not mean, of course, that the workers have no part in creating such an ideology. They take part, however, not as workers, but as socialist theoreticians, as Proudhons and Weitlings; in other words, they take part only when they are able, and to the extent that they are able, more or less, to acquire the knowledge of their age and develop that knowledge. But in order that working men may succeed in this more often, every effort must be made to raise the level of the consciousness of the workers in general; it is necessary that the workers do not confine themselves to the artificially restricted limits of “literature for workers” but that they learn to an increasing degree to master general literature. It would be even truer to say “are not confined”, instead of “do not confine themselves”, because the workers themselves wish to read and do read all that is written for the intelligentsia, and only a few (bad) intellectuals believe that it is enough “for workers” to be told a few things about factory conditions and to have repeated to them over and over again what has long been known. —Lenin
<[16] It is often said that the working class spontaneously gravitates towards socialism. This is perfectly true in the sense that socialist theory reveals the causes of the misery of the working class more profoundly and more correctly than any other theory, and for that reason the workers are able to assimilate it so easily, provided, however, this theory does not itself yield to spontaneity, provided it subordinates spontaneity to itself. Usually this is taken for granted, but it is precisely this which Rabocheye Dyelo forgets or distorts. The working class spontaneously gravitates towards socialism; nevertheless, most widespread (and continuously and diversely revived) bourgeois ideology spontaneously imposes itself upon the working class to a still greater degree. —Lenin
<Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, What Is To Be Done?, BURNING QUESTIONS of our MOVEMENT, II The Spontaneity of the Masses and the Consciousness of the Social-Democratshttps://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/ii.htm 1968 2.0?
>>2924706
>Burning people alive isn't a legitimate form of protest
you should be happy they didn't brought guillotine again.
>>2925220
>Were they guillotining random people in the street?
Literally yeah. The Terror wasn't pretty.
>>2925244
Shadow tax zones are good, you fucking ultra. North Korea hacks cryptocurrency exchanges to steal money do you think that's a legal tax?
>>2925046Unions call to strike this thursday in support of high school students
>>2925218Do you really thing students would send fire on a firfighter? He was just at the wrong place at the wrong moment, he tried to extinguish a fire which exploded full video ,:
https://www.facebook.com/lefigaro/videos/un-sapeur-pompier-sest-retrouv%C3%A9-au-beau-milieu-dune-spectaculaire-gerbe-de-flamm/1626286935830909/ >>2925220>>2925222Do you really thing students would send fire on a firfighter? He was just at the wrong place at the wrong moment, he tried to extinguish a fire which exploded full video ,:
https://www.facebook.com/lefigaro/videos/un-sapeur-pompier-sest-retrouv%C3%A9-au-beau-milieu-dune-spectaculaire-gerbe-de-flamm/1626286935830909/>>2925087>These French riots are an example of spontaneity, and communists must seize upon such situations before the spontaneous movement withers away or is co-opted by the bourgeoisie. It's happening, unions, including the biggest CGT is calling on a strike thursday 6 oct
https://www.cgt.fr/actualites/france/mobilisation/le-6-octobre-la-cgt-sera-aux-cotes-des-lyceennes-et-etudiantes >>2925265When push comes to shove the CGT reformists will probably go home with 100€ and a mars bar as usual, although with the government becoming fascist and insane they could actually grow somewhat of a spine this time.
>>2925269But Anons ITT told me this was just a liberal colour revolution conducted by savage lumpen browns???
>>2925287No one said that.
MEDS. NOW. >>2925021nah, this is real spontaneous anger from french proles. The right will villify labor organizing in any case, should the people be content to suffer and do nothing bc the right might attack them? Its up to communists to capture this popular anger and use it productively
>>2925290False post made up by leftkkkom since no multipolarist actually called it a color revolution.
>>2925291He didn't call it a color revolution he just criticized burning a firefighter and a random bystander which is pretty fair since when the fuck did firefighters ever behave badly towards anyone?
>>2925300You're a retard who fell for right wing propaganda, the firefighter got his eyebrows burned by an aerosol which exploded when he was trying to put out a small garbage fire, so no multipolarist it's not fair to post right wing disinformation tweets calling for genocide of brown people
>>2925312uyghur there's literally video of a protestor trying to ignite a random civilian woman on fire I don't care if you call yourself a communist if you do that you are not carrying out a revolution you are a sadist trying to either torture or kill random people for no reason
>>2925314>the imperialist fascist french government commits atrocities every day<but do you condemn the ultra violent eyebrow burning and garbage bin destruction??Wait a minute it's that Gaza psyop all over again
>>2925314i am not a communist or revolutionist or but i support it anyway.
aggression is needed against a government.
they are there to serve you not you serve them.
there was not a single revolution attempt that wasn't violent. not everyone can be gandhi or malcolm x
>>2925314>masked agitator attacks one person on camera (no arrests made)
>the other 'fire' is a completely fabricated image taken out of contextyeah ok faggot
>>2925300He also posted a Visegrad screenshot blaming the riots on "second and third generation migrants" (i.e. native born French citizens that happen to be brown).
>>>/leftypol/2924995all the parties to the right of staling*
>>2925157>europe no longer manufactures much anything- all sectors of the economy require labor, not just manufacturing. an engineer designing a machine is doing non-manufacturing work. a delivery driver carrying parcels is also labor without manufacturing, etc. etc. european countries use lots of labor and are some of the most productive in the world. your point hinges on memes and vibes, but if you look at the data you will see that cheap labor is essential for the european economy
- there is no such thing as "western" societies in a globalized capitalist world. culture under capitalism is just a costume, a consumable product, and an affectation. all the objects around you were made from the combination of labor and resources from all around the world
- the main strain on developed capitalist societies is exploitation, which, in economic terms, is higher in europe and the usa than it is in, say, india. exploitation and proletarization are, on the one hand, obstructing demographic reproduction, and on the other, disincentivizing technological progress
let me illustrate this to you. imagine that you work in manufacturing and you produce 20 units of labor. if your boss pays you 10 units, and then keeps the other 10 units as profits, the exploitation rate is 1/2 (profit / value produced). they pay 10, and get 20. any labor-saving technology in this scenario has to outperform the exploitation rate. in this case, that means that if a machine costs 1 unit, then it has to save at least 2 units of labor to be competitive. you can see that, the higher the exploitation rate, the less incentive there is for progress
this higher exploitation also means that the wage worker has a worse social standing. even if technological progress has made consumer goods cheaper, if your share of income in society diminishes, you're in a worse position, it doesn't matter if you can afford some trinkets. and what we see today is that this has got to the point where even if you may be able to comfortably sustain yourself, you can't afford children
>>2925344>native born French citizens that happen to be brownyeah, immigrants.
(/pol/ immigrant) >>2925300>False post made up by leftkkkom since no multipolarist actually called it a color revolution.There was another posts with a bunch of visegrad trash. All this is clearly what the other anon was referencing. Don't have to be such a sperg about it.
>>2925369You're not an immigrant in the country of your birth retard.
>>2925374We need a no-fly zone ober France immediately!
>>2925010>>2925015>burning shit isn't out of their "overton window" when it come to what can be done.I’d expect trash cans, not entire buildings.
The same libs that were screeching about the "brave" protesters in Iran are now crying and seething about the protesters in frogcountry, wishing for the police to take harder actions. Libs deserve to be shot.
>>2925395
What demarcates someone as "French" then if it's not being born in France?
will result in nothing award
>>2925393You must have lived under a rock, since the loi travail in 2016 the government went full authoritarian and no social concession with the proles, they stacked fascists in the police which became more and more violent exporting the tactics they've been using in the banlieues against brown people for a few decades, in turn that made all protestors obligated to rely on increasingly violent tactics.
Actually a lot of buildings burned as early as 2005 because the proles of the ghettos had enough of economic misery and police violence, and thus they rioted. The yellow vests burned quite a few banks, precincts and gendarmeries themselves, with also protests fires going out of control and destroying some random buildings but that's collateral damage. And in the last banlieues riots of 2023 a lot of shit burned as well.
>>2925404He's a bad faith racist imbecile, probably supporting nazis like Bardella the Italian or Zemmour the African
>>2924266I mean, this is a type 2 color revolution
it's the years of lead strategy: you force social confrontations and provoke riots to then justify a turn to the right. or better yet, make sure the libs vote for hitler in the next elections. which, btw, I'm not up to date with french electoral politics, but let me guess, there will be an election in less than 3 months
>>2925417Sorry but you're a conspiracy idiot and if you've been up to date with French politics you would know that's the narrative of the government that the highschooler movement is the result of a plot, which for them is an LFI (left wing party) one.
There is indeed an election in 6 months but it's extremely bad timing for them because on top of this a lot of other sectors of the working class are currently mobilizing, so they sent the police all in on the kids to try and stamp it out ASAP. The problem is that a lot of people like kids and don't like when the cops of the government torture and almost kill them, this is why the bourgeoisie and its media are going absolutely all in with the right wing propaganda and bootlicking which reeks of desperation (picrel is a macronist fake highschooler they put on TV to call off the movement!).
The truth is that the youth often mobilizes politically in France and tends to be left wing, this movement is organic, spontaneous and follows a tradition at the same time. It's ridiculous to call that a color revolution whether a leftypoler or the french president says it.
man it really is over for (actual white) French people watching footage of this shit France is more non white than I what I imagined in my worst nightmares(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
>>2925436
It's fine they are descendants from the French province of Algeria
>>2925431Guys watch out Napoleon managed to escape his island, get the guillotine ready.
>>2925436
So you wouldn't consider French people who have ancestors from other european countries to be french then?
>>2925436
>adopting the anglo definitions of nationality instead of the enlightment
omega cringe
>>2925443you're not wrong, the internet has enabled the upper class to mindfuck entire generations of people easily coupled with a general decline in education and material conditions most people just cant see the forest for the trees
>>2925443do you live in france? are you in contact with these people? can you speak and read french? what's your political background?
because this sounds more like you're going off the vibes you get from bourgeois media rather than on-the-ground sources or personal experience. btw, I don't think you understand what "leftcom" means. you sound quite mindbroken yourself. try going outside
if you haven't done your homework, if you haven't (or can't) look into these situations past the few newspaper headlines and webms that you get here or on social media, then you don't need to have an opinion. use your critical thinking: you have essentially no idea of what is actually going on, so don't get emotionally invested. matter of fact, you don't even need to have an opinion, just say you haven't looked into it
>>2925446>regurgitating demoralization and bourgeois propaganda>not wrongkill yourself. disregard my previous post; you're too stupid to engage in politics
>>2925450>no argumentcall me when the red flag is hanging from the big tower
>>2925395
>Born in France
>speaks French
>French citizen
They're French
>>2925436
>being descended from native frenchmen
"Native Frenchmen" are bastard mongoloid rape babies of Romans, Celts, and Germans.
These are the people that should be shot on sight >>2925395
>>2925443>these protests/riots will accoplish nothing other than leading to more palantir ai government surveillenceThey ain't needing any of that to push the police state, has been happening since the workers have been demanding stuff and the neoliberals couldn't be bothered to even give crumbs, we just get the stick now.
>the unions and parties arent stepping inLFI and other trotskyist left wing parties are stepping in, anarchists are stepping in, unions like CGT, SUD and so on are stepping in, there is a protest tuesday
>the youth have no plans, no concrete demands, no demands that are any goodYes the literal children who just became self aware and familiar with politics struggle to organize a militarized vanguard party and are a tad chaotic, but there are many demands like more means for teachers and schools, and the only plan they have, again as CHILDREN without any rights is to block, protest and riot
The kids who protest now are BASED and 100% less cucked than your average adult voter binging the spectacle and mindbroken internet demoralizers like you, they are speaking about politics to each other every day, taking control, learning and educating themselves about how society works and how to wage a power struggle, despite the atrocious violence they get from the fascist pigs it's a beautiful moment for many of them who are discovering true comradery and will become the next revolutionaries.
>>2925472They are also getting brutalized by the police and barred from employment with criminal records, its up for the 30/40 y/os of France to be stepping in and leading them rather than cynically using them to further neo-liberal agendas.
>>2925506Literal blackshirts lmao, they are so stoked about Bardella / Israel coop
>>2924504That sounds EXACTLY like the USA but it's way worse. Yet burgers don't rebel
>>2924309Honestly it kinda makes sense on why ACP will pander to them in fat land
And when they get really bad ennui they do manifestation nocturne (that sounds so cool)
>>2925450>you're too stupid to engage in politicsIs your posting online your definition of "engaging in politics", because we don't any evidence to the contrary that you are just as much an apolitical spectator and news consumer as the rest of us.
If this leads to another paris commune i will apologize to the frogs. Would give the communist movement a little spark that it hadnt had for decades now.
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/117824>>2925580
The point is french identity is not one of pure bloodline, from its very inception it had been a mix.
>>2925446>the internet has enabled the upper class to mindfuck entire generations It's not the upper class instilling fantasies of revolution in the youth.
>>2925973Well technically they do, considering the desire for change is brought by the material consequences of the policies dictated by the upper classes…
Only the Maoists are actually taking part in the popular movement. The revisionists are just sitting back - these "communist" parties should be put down like wounded horses simply for how worthless they are, unwilling to lead the masses.
>>2926008There's more shit planned for tuesday isn't there
>>2926008Well. If the state says it's over and it returned order! \(..)/
>>2926008Almost like the kids can't block their schools and go riot during the week-end when they are closed, we will tomorrow how it goes but friday the pigs arrested 1700 of them
>>2926324
French ethnicity is an oxymoron. The country's genepool is a heap of layers of Gauls, Franks, Normans, immediate and further neighbors. The scary brown people are just the last layer in date.
>>2926473/pol/tards don't understand that half of Provence has Italian family names, half of Alsace has German names, half of Brittany has Celtic names, half of Occitanie have Catalan and Basque names, and I could go on about the Brits in Dordogne, the Flemish influence in Nord-Pas-de-Calais, how the capital of Savoy used to Turin, and the clusterfucks that are Paris and Lyon. The French identity is a pure invention from Parisian imperialists, the south didn't even speak the langue d'oïl until relatively recently.
>>2926482I'm half "diagonale du vide" French, half Arab/Berber, I'm of sound mind and have no particular health problem. There is no glory in being a consanguin.
>>2925580
They point is that France is a mongrel nation and thus can't suddenly declare that the newest influx of genetic material is somehow less French than the last batch. Especially when you consider how hard they tried to make North Africa part of metropolitan France.
>>2926489How many children have been maimed at this point
>>2926495 For the most serious injuries, two lost an eyes, one has received explosion in the jaw, and one lost a hand
Cops need all to rot in a hole
>>2926496I think one lost their whole forearm too
>>2926496>>2926499So the police have probably caused more bodily harm than the muh violent youths
We already did all of this shit before. Deja vu amirite?
>>2926504They renamed the GLI-F4 or whatever but some still has enough explosive (20-30g) to maim and kill, you don't even have to pick them up, just be unlucky enough that a fascist pig does a (illegal) direct shot at you, and even if it explodes a few meters from you that's still a concussion and tinitus that can have less visible but life long consequences
>>2926512 (me)
Supposedly they phased the GLI-F4 out, the other ones like GML2 don't have TNT but a RDX mix that produces roughly the same blast wave
reminds me of the 2019 chile riots where lots of people lost their eyes to police brutality (the people of that country would later elect kast in an overwhelming 60% victory)
French cops are all basically israelis
>>2925448
<'because this sounds more like you're going off the vibes you get from bourgeois media rather than on-the-ground sources or personal experience. btw, I don't think you understand what "leftcom" means. you sound quite mindbroken yourself. try going outside'Exactly, these people who allow themselves to judge big big movements while just seeing videos of it on social medias
>>2926488>The French identity is a pure invention from Parisian imperialists, the south didn't even speak the langue d'oïl until relatively recently.and yet you call yourself half-french not half occitan-gaul
seems to me france isn't real only as long as you're not making the cut
>>2926551So you agree then that nationality and nationalism are arbitrary constructs
>>2924295>The highschoolers are the barometer of of social pressure in this countryHow dreadful. France is ran by a bunch of teenagers lul
>>2924315>Some public-sector positions would be eliminated, while Defence, Justice and Interior are among the areas receiving additional resources.Nothing fascistic there
>>2926729Especially since it was just an assembly, no occupation
>>2926729French cops are just fucking blackshirts at this point
>>2926551That shows how torough the ethnogenesis process was.
>>2925443Brother if you are a leftcom this is your favorite shit. No organization! No corrupt opportunists!
Unless by "leftcom" you mean internet contrarian leftist barely masking his misanthropy with vaguely left coded language
>>2926729>The pigs invaded the Sorbonne university to prevent the students to organize, pretty big dealWrong. It is over and order has returned, see:
>>2926008>>2926543https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_R%C3%A9mi_Fraisse >>2926868Rémi was killed by an OF1 which has three times the explosive charge, it was banned after that, a gli f4 or gm2l would probably have killed him too however sinced the grenade unluckily landed against his spine
>>2926872For years that wikipedia article spun a story about how it was just a teargas grenade that unfortunately ricochet off the side of something else and happened to hit him in the head. Just bad luck all around with nobody at fault!
The audacity really sticks with me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Killing_of_R%C3%A9mi_Fraisse&oldid=895792463 >>2925398Smart people like both
It's a crazy day, even the bourgeois aristocrat high school Henri IV is blocked, never happened
https://x.com/AlertesInfos/status/2107407603018117211⚠️ A crackdown on high school students—the figures tell the story:
• Two weeks of high school student protests: 5,060 police detentions (*gardes à vue*), including 4,400 minors.
• Yellow Vests (2018–2019): 6,730 detentions (over a year).
• 2016 Labor Law protests: 890 detentions.
• 2006 Anti-CPE movement: 1,920 detentions.
• 2005 riots: 4,500 detentions, including 950 minors.
• 1994 Anti-CIP movement: 250 detentions.
• 1986 Devaquet Law protests: 150 detentions.
• May 1968: approximately 700 arrests, of which… 95 resulted in police detention.
> To sum up: in just two weeks, there have been more detentions than during the entire 2005 riots (and those were… riots); almost as many as during the 12 months of Yellow Vest protests; twice as many as during the 2006 anti-CPE mobilization; six times as many as during the 2016 Labor Law protests; twenty times as many as during the 1994 anti-CIP movement… and fifty times as many as in May '68—even though the violence of the protesters is incomparable. Note that this high school student movement is only just beginning, so the figures will continue to skyrocket…
fuck those hypocrites in the eu, death to macron
>>2927250
There's no "key leaders" that's what even if they arrest and arrest it's still going on stronger and stronger
>>2927250
Im watching the protests right now how many of you retards are gonna post 'its over!' everyday?
>>2927249The sole good farmers Union, I love them
>>2927250
no source
France is not relevant, a revolution there would inevitably be surrounded, isolated, and eventually choked out like Cuba, that applies to literally everywhere that isn’t the US or China
>>2927300Isn't China state capitalist?
>>2927305Communism IS state capitalism because it’s exactly the crest on the horizon of possibilities, you’re not getting your fantasy where the need for labor specialization disappears and you can goon in the morning and hunt midday and critique in the evening
Protestors are running towards EU parliament in Strasbourg:
https://x.com/GaspardGlanz/status/2107512248474193951>>2927308So, so form of inequality is necessary, bro?
>>2927298you people need to make up your mind as to whether or not diversity is a strength or a punishment
>>2927318If labor specialization means inequality, then yes, maybe not as much as capital ownership creates, but it will still exist
sorry what are these riots about?
>>2927298>>2927320Retard on retard communication
Bilibili deleted all left-wing analysis videos about the french protests lmao
>>2927286am i retarded or is there just nopony here
>>2927347They have any interesting takes?
>>2927026you're obviously unqualified to talk about smart people
>>2927338not enough teacher, not enough supervisors, classrooms overloaded and overheating in summer, freezing in winter, underpaid teachers
It was zesty
>>2927263> RIOTS HAPPENING LIVE >>2927257> RIOTS HAPPENING LIVE Wrong. If you would consult the posts:
>>2927250 >>2926008 >>2927464"Protests are finished" said increasingly nervous rightoid for the umpteenth time.
That's what happens when kids are ungrateful. Boo hoo! Classroom sizes don't make a difference. So fucking petty.
Proletariat status?
>>2928546Really really hard*
All in on nothing
Protests are ending in paris
They are scared
"Lowering prices at the pump by 12 to 18 cents per liter, prime minister announces that France will release 10 million barrels of diesel from its strategic reserves." Not enough
"Education Minister Edouard Geffray announced on TF1 on Thursday evening that 3,000 substitute teachers would be deployed "between tomorrow and Tuesday" to the high schools where the situation is most critical." Too late, and we'll see in the next days but will not work and will be a mess with them as always
>>2924232I always forget how red blood can be
>>2928599First one was asked by the orange retard tho, unless he kept it in the local market somehow
>>2928668The brighter can indicate arterial, but not necessarily, though it's an indicator.
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