France is burning again, high-schoolers and students are blocking and rioting everywhere since three days. Firefighters are also on semi strike, they continue to intervene but with "ON STRIKE" on all their strikes. Farmers are also starting a movement, and yellow vest were due to return on 17 october but might happen sooner.
Even high-schools in countryside and right wing areas are blocking and rioting!
I'll text my brown femboy friend in Lyon immediately and tell him to stay safe.
>>2924215what is this about and why?
>>2924222A bit about everything, partly about their schools conditions(a lot of schools are scruffy), there's a huge teacher vacant positions for teachers so a lot of students don't have teaching for some course. Also it's a lot more about general thing, like against Macron, the cost of life and everything
>>2924223>>2924223And police brutality, it has been huge these last few days. A high schooler may have lost an eye
800 people had already been arrested this morning by police in the whole country during the three days(so probably 1000-1500 now)
proles are getting uppity? must be CIA
Macron and gov start to be afraid "The high school student movement is upending the government's agenda: all ministerial trips are cancelled until at least Monday. (BFMTV)"
is that their 5th revolution?
what are they protesting for rn?
>>2924219bro really had darude sandstorm as a honk
"The Prime Minister fears that the high school student crisis could drag on for months, potentially lasting until the presidential election. His advisors—including several former prefects—are observing an unprecedented "convergence of struggles" between young people from the suburbs and those from city centers, hailing from vastly different social backgrounds. (Loïc Besson - BFMTV)"
>>2924235All cops are predators
>>2924241again what the fuck they're protesting against?
i know they do that like every 4 months or so but i can't find a reason behind it this time.
>>2924255As long as the government doesn't resolve shit there's always more reason to riot
>>2924255>A bit about everything, partly about their schools conditions(a lot of schools are scruffy), there's a huge teacher vacant positions for teachers so a lot of students don't have teaching for some course. Also it's a lot more about general thing, like against Macron, the cost of life and everythingAnd police brutality
pretty cool but they do this like every year and nothing changes, cringe shit like this shows its mostly just a platform for centre left liboids to try and gain some votes and an excuse for the police to stamp down on the proles with mass arrests
its good actually but its ritualized and directionless enough to not seriously threaten power and be used by cynical political actors to advance careers while still upholding kensyian/hitlerite economics and class consensus.
>>2924225>>2924221meant to highlight these
why is jvpiter still president? I feel like he has been president for so long its kind of like Putin
>Student protests
>"Cost of living" complaints
Yep, it's a color revolution.
>>2924266why do glowies want to regime change macron? is he multipolar?
>>2924259they seem always angry and compared to mine, france isn't that bad.
>>2924260okay thanks
>>2924266>>2924268I think its less of that and more of a excuse to arrest a bunch of radicals. The 'left' of France are happy to put all these lambs out for ritual slaughter and state brutalization without giving them anything but vague platitudes to be mad about - cant have them actually overthrowing the state or demanding something revolutionary.
The French are as good as co-opting protest movements as they are at starting them.
>>2924266Ah yes, the color revolution happening against noted imperial periphery multipolar anti-imperialist leader…Emanual Macron…
>>2924271the epstein class fears jvpiterian evropa…
>>2924266Lol it's mainly high schoolers so far, and no it's not a color revolution lol Macron is US/CIA aligned
>>2924266The real evidence is that they have phones. Phones are the modern tracking devices of the CIA.
>>2924278in the 21st century we are all glowies
>>2924278no phone no case
>>2924279>in the 21st century we are all glowiesTrvke
>>2924263Having a population that is willing to engage in this kind of civil disobedience is a prerequisite to actually getting shit done, but yeah, it requires actual direction and preferably not just to fuel some reformist program. It does seem the French establishment is quite numb to these upheavals though seeing as this indeed seems to happen every year.
>>2924219>darude sandstorm hornpeak
>>2924283the farmers are more likely to achieve what they want thru more direct and targeted action, the students seem too invested in it being funny than angry and as such seem neutered in comparison.
'- The government believes that "we are experiencing" a "tipping point into violence" amidst the blockades of high schools across France. (LCI)'
Gov is preparing minds for even more repression
>>2924286True, what are the farmers' politics and demands? Over here it seems like an entirely right wing project supported by the big agricultural lobby.
The highschoolers are the barometer of of social pressure in this country, almost every time they rise up something big follows. I would know I blocked my highschool a decade and something ago, retards might be trying to explain everything rationally and give reasons and demands but really it boils down to the youth having enough of the mountain of shit accumulating and going for chaos and power struggle instead of shutting the fuck up like they are told.
Unlike when I did it the government is just unleashing violence in the hopes of stamping that out and that's extremely stupid of them and good for us because there is no hierarchized org yield, it just radicalizes the hormonal teenagers who feel invincible and their families and friends.
The next months in France will be very fun, I hope we can hang some billionaires to lamp posts and be an example for the world once again
>>2924290Cheaper diesel, aligns them with anti-war movements which the right have mostly managed to capture thru a eu-sceptic and anti-immigrant stance.
Its what happens when the left cedes the ground to the center-liberals on Ukraine and Palestine, they become unable to address the cost of living crisis caused by said wars and allow easy anti-immigrant rhetoric to take hold.
>>2924219It's all fun and based until you discover the farmer's pet issue is that they aren't allowed to vaporize pesticides near schoolgrounds.
>>2924295and despite all my critiques I hope this is the case
>The next months in France will be very fun, I hope we can hang some billionaires to lamp posts and be an example for the world once again >>2924294based adventurists
>>2924296That's too bad. In The Netherlands it's all about NOx emissions.
>>2924296What ground was ceded in France? The sucdem left (LFI) is eurosceptic, pushes for NATO exit and a negotiated peace between Ukraine and Russia and is constantly being attacked as being pro-kremlin for this, yet the farmers hate them. It's simple, the farmers are brainwashed people who listen to billionaire radio in their tractor in the morning and billionaire tv in the evening before going to sleep and they hate this more than the PAC. It's not about having good positioning it's about we need to kill capitalists and destroy their propaganda machine asap
>>2924303true but you're being disingenuous if you dont think a lot of the rural population arent going far right because the left is failing to reach them
>>2924308Youriiii la base
>>2924309>>2924303Is this not more so the fault of PS than LFI? I feel like there is a common thread in many countries where the traditional Bourgeois worker's party fucks everything up completely and the rest of the left gets to share the blame, which then presents an opening for the far right.
French government is currently adding fuel to the fire, they just announced
-Family allowances (“allocations familiales”) would be frozen at their current level in 2027. They would not receive their usual inflation-linked increase, normally applied every 1 April.
-The activity bonus, paid to many low-income workers, is also included among the benefits that would be frozen.
-APL housing assistance would be frozen at its 2026 level rather than receiving the usual increase.
-For Pensions above €1,260/month pension increases would be limited/sub-indexed rather than fully following inflation.
-Some public-sector positions would be eliminated, while Defence, Justice and Interior are among the areas receiving additional resources.
-Tighter rules on sick-pay/medical leave
>>2924309I think it's true albeit, I was doing the vendanges in the countryside recently and I educated a few people who had strong negative opinions about megabassines and transfolks, it just took a bit a of trust and a conversation to bring them to understanding gender dysphoria or how the megabassines were made for the huge companies and not the average farmers. I don't even really care about those subjects but I studied them and simply and respectfully passed my knowledge while letting them form their opinion and bam. This is why the gilets jaunes worked also, it was a big transfer of knowledge and turned out that people don't care about immigration and skin color but begin to question class issues after a little bit of that
>>2924317yeah this is what im getting at really, they are usually open to considering what you're saying its just reaching them that is the difficult part
>>2924314yes this is the typical dynamic, although the soc-dems involved never do themselves any favours with them typically just agreeing to vote for the center/center right blocs to keep the 'real' bad guys out
>>2924317
>I think it's true albeit, I was doing the vendanges in the countryside recently and I educated a few people who had strong negative opinions about megabassines and transfolks, it just took a bit a of trust and a conversation to bring them to understanding gender dysphoria or how the megabassines were made for the huge companies and not the average farmers. I don't even really care about those subjects but I studied them and simply and respectfully passed my knowledge while letting them form their opinion and bam. This is why the gilets jaunes worked also, it was a big transfer of knowledge and turned out that people don't care about immigration and skin color but begin to question class issues after a little bit of thatExactly!!
>>2924323
You don't know what you are talking about, even in the deepcountry side high schools were blocked.
Go back to /pol/
GIGA
BURN THE BOURGS NOW
>>2924329I think the kids are alright
>>2924266I know this is sarcasm but you have to wonder if they've just gotten tired of Macron's stupidity or would rather release the tension now before he hands the country to fashoids. Not to say that he isn't some form of fascist himself, but the EU is spooked about optically neutral shitlibs getting toppled and want to ensure the blocks fall in the right direction.
Brain says NOTHING
Heart says SOMETHING
The kids are alright
>>2924405It means our french comrades need to get jobs as teachers, to educate the radicalized youth.
>>2924405For them it means no class at all, which is cool if you like to miss course, but bad if you want to get a good grade and get into good higher education, and the lack of teacher is happening in the poorest zones
Nothingburger
It’s another controlled burn
I honestly find it incredible that students would strike for better provision in schools that would never happen here.
>>2924410>controlled burndoes this help porky with the overproduction crisis like inter-imperialist war does?
>>2924412>here.burgervolk?
If you just looked up the voting recording for National Rally across last few French parliamentary elections, and felt a shiver across your back, that's normal.
>>2924432I felt a shiver cause their kids fighting cops will make them vote LFI, but only a shiver because fuck social democracy I want communism
>>2924425Yeah. Ive made peace with it being over and am focusing on my friends and loved ones recently. You gotta help what you can help.
>>2924442fuck off loving your family and friends then, it's a social movement not a well adjusted people magnet
1900+ arrested during those three days
>>2924439Western civilization has fallen.
French cops suck so much, send them all into uranium mines or something
>>2924222Everything sucks and these children have nothing but misery for their future, what do you want? Let them rage, if you have young family members you should constantly remind them how absolutely fucked they are and how they got fucked by everyone who holds authority over them. The cops are just confirming this, this is the norm now, no government is even thinking about acting against climate change, they are only looking at ways to repress the inevitable backlash.
>>2924472>acting against climate changeIdk leftychud, the protest doesn't look like it's about climate.
>>29244841) It are very general protests about their ridiculous conditions as students
2) students have repeatedly stated that sitting in a classroom that is +35°C is unbearable and unfit for learning
3) A whole lot of then are smart enough to see that they will just inherit a completely broken shitstorm, even I knew that already.
But tell me, what do you think it's a bout oh great sage of the imageboards
>>2924496It wasn't a multiple choice question, these are some of the vague reasons they are blocking the schools. Loads of kids stuck in shitty rooms with 30 students and +30 degree heat for 2 months while their parents and schools can't afford food, cooking or heating
But fuck this, my initial reaction wasn't about this or me, it was that
>>2924222 is a stupid, meaningless question because they have nothing to do at this point then to protest
something similar happened in india a while back (students protesting for education reforms) and look what their weeks of protesting brought about: virtually nothing, only symbolic concessions like the resignation of the education minister and some vague promises to do better next time
i guess this isnt similar because muptiple groups are agitating for a vide range of issues but still
>highschoolers riot just to not have to go to class
<leftypol: is this the start of the communist revolution???
Be dialectical.
>students riot just to avoid going to school
True, actually.
>this is the start of communist revolution guys
Also true, since getting people used to disorder and riot as well as giving them direct experience in what creates change and what doesn't is gonna be useful the next time tensions build up and explode into mass civil disobedience. Two contradictory statements can be true at once.
>>2924561this is the start of the rightwing backlash and mass deportations
>>2924561>Also true, since getting people used to disorder and riot as well as giving them direct experience in what creates change and what doesn't is gonna be useful the next time tensions build up and explode into mass civil disobedience. yeah but they are getting to learn student struggle, it doesnt necessarily translate to proletarian struggle which is what actually matters
all student movements did where I live was create a new generation of neolib politicians at the end now that I think about it lol
>>2924215from what i've seen on other parts of the internet it's being portrayed as immigrant kids rioting and killing police and french teachers regardless of the actual circumstances
>>2924564>yeah but they are getting to learn student struggle, it doesnt necessarily translate to proletarian struggle which is what actually mattersAll correct.
>all student movements did where I live was create a new generation of neolib politicians at the end now that I think about it lolSame as my country.
Even with all that being true, people like literally (you) can see these things and learn from them developing a more sophisticated consciousness, and there's of course the people in those movements that actually did want real change and became disillusioned who will become a force. So even if it's all a sham meant to halt real progress and even if it actually does mostly succeed fact is real progress still emerges, as it can't help to.
>>2924221who is the guy on the left one?
>>2924558Not my impression of the general opinion here. Also, why be so demeaning to these kids as if this is just one big excuse to skip class when it seems like this has arisen from lots and lots of genuine grievances?
great, they can elect the far right fascist government even easier now
>>2924606Lmao, why? Parents get their children beaten up and disfigured by cops while they are forced to sit In rotten buildings with worthless education, LFI is the only group protecting and supporting the teachers and students, for anyone who isn't glued 24/24 to BFMTV and Cnews it's really obvious.
>>2924255Lack of funds.
Overcrowded classrooms.
Professors who leave don't get replaced, sometimes for a whole year, which is a big problem when it's your final year and have to undertake the baccalauréat exam.
No heating during winter.
No ventilation during summer heatwaves.
Macron's reforms on the access to universities were a fucking mess (Parcoursup, he destroyed a system that was working fine to replace it with something completely opaque and absurd nobody understands, one of the first things he did after gaining power).
And France in general is going to shit and high-school students aren't stupid.
>inb4 how can a first-world country have no funds for public schoolsNewsflash: the bourgeois state is not your friend.
French cops pointing assault rifles to students in toulouse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G36 the weapon in question.
>>2924606They can and are willing to burn down schools, but they somehow fail at getting a city hall? Nah.
>>2924606>the symptom caused the sickness!t. retards
>>2924674That’s not what they’re saying at all. What does burning a school accomplish? Are any of the burning schools even private?
Shots are being heard at toulouse around Arènes
>>2924684Adventurist tard
>>2924712
t. visegrad ziorats
>>2924712
If only the rioters were more white
>>2924706
>posting Visegrad unironically
>>2924712
Rightist damage control enabled
>>2924757Idk who they think they're fooling posting literally NATO-Azovite rags seething about how those dirty browns are trying to destroy France with rioting. As we all know, white French people would never dream of rioting lmao.
>>2924770
Schools? Dont you mean upper class ideology indoctrination centers?
>>2924742
So say that or that they are directionless, unorganized and won't amount to anything like other people have said in this thread. I'd say two things can be true at once. Highschool aged children might want better conditions and also be retarded. There might also be people amongst them simply using it as an excuse for delinquency, but these kinds of excesses happen every time there is a big protest movement going on. Calling them ethnic riots when this shit happens all the time just seems no different than calling it a "chimp out" like /pol/tards would.
>>2924770
>Someone who burn a boulangerie does not want more bread
SMALL CAPITALIST ALERT. THIS BITCHASS LIKES SMALL CAPITALIST
>>2924788>>2924813You can just seize the boulangerie from the petite bourgeoisie though…
>>2924770
>if you want more money then why are you attacking a bank? Checkmate commies
my grandfather went to school in a two room village converted farm house along with sixty other kids from the village and was happy for the opportunity
really makes you think
>>2924847Back then school was a more or less guarantee to move up the social ladder. Now? It amplify the inequalities. Bougies kids have private tutors and nepotism privileges, proles kids gets scraps from a derelict institution that condemn them to gig economy and unemployment. The wrath is understandable.
>>2924851>The wrath is understandableThe targets are not
>>2924706>isn't a legitimate form of protest you dont get to decide what is a "legitimate form of protest", I consider burning cops and executive power symbols and representatives totally legitimate. At most you can say its not good PR. And 99.9% of protesters arent burning people or buildings anyway, its the usual mainstream media whining about "muh violence! its all illegitimate cause they're violent! look there a dumpster fire!" as if the cops werent the ones cracking heads.
>The national average is 22,2 kids per class. I spent my whole secondary cycle in 25-32 classes, and I dont believe things got better since. Just cause you have some spots lowering the average (especially early in education, as thats where the declining population is felt the fastest) doesnt mean you dont have plenty of places with way too big classrooms
>Maybe if teachers were not insulted and attacked you mean maybe if they had a decent fucking salary and all the new hires werent precarious contract workers
>that fucking headlinehilarious reactionary media. The ones filming didnt set the guy on fire (nobody actually "set him on fire", some aerosol put in a barricade blew up apparently), and typical obsession for muh migrants despite everyone depicted being french
>>2924676I personally suspect undercover cops/far right provocateurs to be the ones burning the schools. Some of those guys shots their fireworks at the protesting students…
>>2924877some people need to understand that the cops will be sending in masked people into the protest to enact violence on people and property to give them justification for violence and to legitimize the state narrative
>>2924888What do public schools have to do with the petite bourgeoisie?
just seems like an excuse to skip school.
whole thing is pointless and nothing will happen, it will just burn out and justify the state
>starting riots across the entire country just to skip school
its just too giga…
>>2924359>before he hands the country to fashoids.what do you think this is? like actually, what do you think the end result of all of this will be?
ultimately you're talking about elections, so what way do you think the liberals will vote when they see schools burning on the tv and the only two choices are the people burning the schools, and the right-wing
>>2924296>>2924303>>2924309it can't possibly be that they are defending their material interests, which align them with the right wing? you guys hate confronting this fact, don't you. 150+ posts and barely anyone talking about what the agribusinesses are protesting against
and stop calling them "farmers", these aren't peasants protesting against landlords or whatever. these are agribusinesses of the worst kind, these are the people that would rather triple tap everything with glyphosate than do math because numbers are gay and herbicides are cheap anyway. these people are the long-term version of gladio
and btw, I'm not saying that burning schools is bad
I'm saying that, politically speaking, this is a defeat
Reminder any protest or riot is just the bourgeois allowing you to throw a tantrum like a toddler to exhaust your energy before you go back to work like normal. It’s the same function as mardi gras and debt jubilees and bread and circuses.
>>2924876Yes they are, because there is no organisation beside social networks enhanced pack effects, the violence is channeled into attacking symbols rahter than strategic moves. They attack whatever incarnate The Man, business, public building, authority figures and so on and so forth.
>>2924914Literally anything outside the immediate seizure of power is a defeat, all else but power is illusory.
>>2924917not necessarily, sometimes things take time. building a movement for example is by itself a victory, even if it hasn't seized power yet
but yes, as the other anon said, disorganized small scale violence is useless and counter-productive. if you guys don't want to take my word for it, engels talked about this after a series of riots in germany back in the day:
>>>/edu/19326 >>2924925We don’t have time, civilization ending climate change and technology is already here and has been since the 40s
>>2924916>Yes they are, because there is no organisation beside social networks enhanced pack effects, the violence is channeled into attacking symbols rahter than strategic moves. They attack whatever incarnate The Man, business, public building, authority figures and so on and so forthPretty good argument, but even with this I’m still not seeing it. There is a limit to what can be excused by a lack of organization, and this goes directly against their stated complaints of “school degradation”. It’s just too contradictory.
>>2924925How can you look at the last 100 years of mass movement organizing as anything other than not just a failure, but a catastrophe that put all the cards in the hands of capital?
>>2924931A coherent strategy in adequation with relatively defined goals'' would require a level of political consciousness and understanding that angry teens do not have.
Right now they just see that shit's fucked and their reference when it comes to political action is the Gilets Jaunes on the news when they were kids.
>>2924939yes, yes I can
the current situation isn't perfect, but it is way better than it was 40 years ago. this doesn't mean that revolution is around the corner, but we are seeing the collapse of the liberal ideology, and with it, the collapse of fascism as a political movement. if you do marxist militancy you have probably noticed that people are becoming a lot more receptive to the messaging
>>2924945>A coherent strategy in adequation with relatively defined goals'' would require a level of political consciousness and understanding that angry teens do not have.I don’t expect a coherent strategy, but this seems a little too convenient for a bunch of angry teenagers to do. Graffiti and smashed windows seems to be more their liking.
Let me guess this will a period of unrest in which some are arrested and in the end it will result in liberals gaining more power
>>2924977
not really. the ultimate objective of fascism is to maintain the bourgeois order; at it's core it carries the same ideas. when the free market is discredited and becomes unpopular, all the parties to the left of stalin become unpopular
>>2924978
you're not passing as a marxist, btw
and to address your point: it's the other way around, cheap labor is one of the few things stopping the collapse. all the nonsense about migrants destroying white civilization is fascist slop that no one takes seriously, not even chuds
>>2924979>Graffiti and smashed windowsWhat are you? 45? Again, their point of reference is Gilet Jaunes and molotov cocktails thrown at cops.
>>2925010 (me)
To add nuance to that, most still don't resort to violence and just hold signs on top on screaming slogan. But with what they grew up with, burning shit isn't out of their "overton window" when it come to what can be done.
>>2925017Je ressemble à ça et je dis ça :D
>>2925046I can't read those documents but I'm guessing not at all. Probably will fizzle in a week or two achieving nothing.
>>2924916>They attack whatever incarnate The Man, business, public building, authority figures and so on and so forth.But that's not a man:
>>2924706 >>2925056What the fuck are you rambling about? This is the French riots thread.
>>2925059I don't know dog, setting women on fire is frowned upon in polite society:
>>2924706 >>2924215These French riots are an example of spontaneity, and communists must seize upon such situations before the spontaneous movement withers away or is co-opted by the bourgeoisie. Communists need to use this opportunity to spread their message and politicize more people, thereby strengthening the communist movement; otherwise, the bourgeoisie will demonize, defame, repress, and slander the spontaneous movement to foster apathy and strip the masses of their agency.
Another concern is the bourgeoisie attempting to co-opt the spontaneous movement to serve its own class interests. Therefore, one should be wary of rhetoric insisting that a movement must be "organic"—meaning free from communist influence—because the bourgeoisie will seek to infiltrate it regardless, and such rhetoric often masks this reality.
I will leave you with a quote from Lenin on spontaneity to help readers reflect on these situations:
<Since there can be no talk of an independent ideology formulated by the working masses themselves in the process of their movement,[15] the only choice is — either bourgeois or socialist ideology. There is no middle course (for mankind has not created a “third” ideology, and, moreover, in a society torn by class antagonisms there can never be a non-class or an above-class ideology). Hence, to belittle the socialist ideology in any way, to turn aside from it in the slightest degree means to strengthen bourgeois ideology. There is much talk of spontaneity. But the spontaneous development of the working-class movement leads to its subordination to bourgeois ideology, to its development along the lines of the Credo programme; for the spontaneous working-class movement is trade-unionism, is Nur-Gewerkschaftlerei, and trade unionism means the ideological enslavement of the workers by the bourgeoisie. Hence, our task, the task of Social-Democracy, is to combat spontaneity, to divert the working-class movement from this spontaneous, trade-unionist striving to come under the wing of the bourgeoisie, and to bring it under the wing of revolutionary Social Democracy. The sentence employed by the authors of the Economist letter published in Iskra, No. 12, that the efforts of the most inspired ideologists fail to divert the working-class movement from the path that is determined by the interaction of the material elements and the material environment is therefore tantamount to renouncing socialism. If these authors were capable of fearlessly, consistently, and thoroughly considering what they say, as everyone who enters the arena of literary and public activity should be, there would be nothing left for them but to “fold their useless arms over their empty breasts” and surrender the field of action to the Struves and Prokopoviches, who are dragging the working-class movement “along the line of least resistance”, i.e., along the line of bourgeois trade-unionism, or to the Zubatovs, who are dragging it along the line of clerical and gendarme “ideology”.
<Let us recall the example of Germany. What was the historic service Lassalle rendered to the German working-class movement? It was that he diverted that movement from the path of progressionist trade-unionism and co-operativism towards which it had been spontaneously moving (with the benign assistance of Schulze-Delitzsch and his like). To fulfil such a task it was necessary to do something quite different from talking of underrating the spontaneous element, of tactics-as-process, of the interaction between elements and environment, etc. A fierce struggle against spontaneity was necessary, and only after such a struggle, extending over many years, was it possible, for instance, to convert the working population of Berlin from a bulwark of the progressionist party into one of the finest strongholds of Social-Democracy. This struggle is by no means over even today (as might seem to those who learn the history of the German movement from Prokopovich, and its philosophy from Struve). Even now the German working class is, so to speak, split up among a number of ideologies. A section of the workers is organised in Catholic and monarchist trade unions; another section is organised in the Hirsch-Duncker[33] unions, founded by the bourgeois worshippers of English trade-unionism; the third is organised in Social-Democratic trade unions. The last-named group is immeasurably more numerous than the rest, but the Social-Democratic ideology was able to achieve this superiority, and will be able to maintain it, only in an unswerving struggle against all other ideologies.
<But why, the reader will ask, does the spontaneous movement, the movement along the line of least resistance, lead to the domination of bourgeois ideology? For the simple reason that bourgeois ideology is far older in origin than socialist ideology, that it is more fully developed, and that it has at its disposal immeasurably more means of dissemination.[16] And the younger the socialist movement in any given country, the more vigorously it must struggle against all attempts to entrench non-socialist ideology, and the more resolutely the workers must be warned against the bad counsellors who shout against “overrating the conscious element”, etc. The authors of the Economist letter, in unison with Rabocheye Dyelo, inveigh against the intolerance that is characteristic of the infancy of the movement. To this we reply: Yes, our movement is indeed in its infancy, and in order that it may grow up faster, it must become imbued with intolerance against those who retard its growth by their subservience to spontaneity. Nothing is so ridiculous and harmful as pretending that we are “old hands” who have long ago experienced all the decisive stages of the struggle.
<Thirdly, the first issue of Rabochaya Mysl shows that the term “Economism” (which, of course, we do not propose to abandon, since, in one way or another, this designation has already established itself) does not adequately convey the real character of the new trend. Rabochaya Mysl does not altogether repudiate the political struggle; the rules for a workers’ mutual benefit fund published in its first issue contain a reference to combating the government. Rabochaya Mysl believes, however, that “politics always obediently follows economics” (Rabocheye Dyelo varies this thesis when it asserts in its programme that “in Russia more than in any other country, the economic struggle is inseparable from the political struggle”). If by politics is meant Social-Democratic politics, then the theses of Rabochaya Mysl and Rabocheye Dyelo are utterly incorrect. The economic struggle of the workers is very often connected (although not inseparably) with bourgeois politics, clerical politics, etc., as we have seen. Rabocheye Dyelo’s theses are correct, if by politics is meant trade union politics, viz., the common striving of all workers to secure from the government measures for alleviating the distress to which their condition gives rise, but which do not abolish that condition, i.e., which do not remove the subjection of labour to capital. That striving indeed is common to the English trade-unionists, who are hostile to socialism, to the Catholic workers, to the “Zubatov” workers, etc. There is politics and politics. Thus, we see that Rabochaya Mysl does not so much deny the political struggle, as it bows to its spontaneity, to its unconsciousness. While fully recognising the political struggle (better: the political desires and demands of the workers), which arises spontaneously from the working-class movement itself, it absolutely refuses independently to work out a specifically Social-Democratic politics corresponding to the general tasks of socialism and to present-day conditions in Russia.[…]
<Footnotes:
<[15] This does not mean, of course, that the workers have no part in creating such an ideology. They take part, however, not as workers, but as socialist theoreticians, as Proudhons and Weitlings; in other words, they take part only when they are able, and to the extent that they are able, more or less, to acquire the knowledge of their age and develop that knowledge. But in order that working men may succeed in this more often, every effort must be made to raise the level of the consciousness of the workers in general; it is necessary that the workers do not confine themselves to the artificially restricted limits of “literature for workers” but that they learn to an increasing degree to master general literature. It would be even truer to say “are not confined”, instead of “do not confine themselves”, because the workers themselves wish to read and do read all that is written for the intelligentsia, and only a few (bad) intellectuals believe that it is enough “for workers” to be told a few things about factory conditions and to have repeated to them over and over again what has long been known. —Lenin
<[16] It is often said that the working class spontaneously gravitates towards socialism. This is perfectly true in the sense that socialist theory reveals the causes of the misery of the working class more profoundly and more correctly than any other theory, and for that reason the workers are able to assimilate it so easily, provided, however, this theory does not itself yield to spontaneity, provided it subordinates spontaneity to itself. Usually this is taken for granted, but it is precisely this which Rabocheye Dyelo forgets or distorts. The working class spontaneously gravitates towards socialism; nevertheless, most widespread (and continuously and diversely revived) bourgeois ideology spontaneously imposes itself upon the working class to a still greater degree. —Lenin
<Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, What Is To Be Done?, BURNING QUESTIONS of our MOVEMENT, II The Spontaneity of the Masses and the Consciousness of the Social-Democratshttps://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/ii.htm 1968 2.0?
>>2924706
>Burning people alive isn't a legitimate form of protest
you should be happy they didn't brought guillotine again.
>>2925220
>Were they guillotining random people in the street?
Literally yeah. The Terror wasn't pretty.
>>2925244
Shadow tax zones are good, you fucking ultra. North Korea hacks cryptocurrency exchanges to steal money do you think that's a legal tax?
>>2925046Unions call to strike this thursday in support of high school students
>>2925218Do you really thing students would send fire on a firfighter? He was just at the wrong place at the wrong moment, he tried to extinguish a fire which exploded full video ,:
https://www.facebook.com/lefigaro/videos/un-sapeur-pompier-sest-retrouv%C3%A9-au-beau-milieu-dune-spectaculaire-gerbe-de-flamm/1626286935830909/ >>2925220>>2925222Do you really thing students would send fire on a firfighter? He was just at the wrong place at the wrong moment, he tried to extinguish a fire which exploded full video ,:
https://www.facebook.com/lefigaro/videos/un-sapeur-pompier-sest-retrouv%C3%A9-au-beau-milieu-dune-spectaculaire-gerbe-de-flamm/1626286935830909/>>2925087>These French riots are an example of spontaneity, and communists must seize upon such situations before the spontaneous movement withers away or is co-opted by the bourgeoisie. It's happening, unions, including the biggest CGT is calling on a strike thursday 6 oct
https://www.cgt.fr/actualites/france/mobilisation/le-6-octobre-la-cgt-sera-aux-cotes-des-lyceennes-et-etudiantes >>2925265When push comes to shove the CGT reformists will probably go home with 100€ and a mars bar as usual, although with the government becoming fascist and insane they could actually grow somewhat of a spine this time.
>>2925269But Anons ITT told me this was just a liberal colour revolution conducted by savage lumpen browns???
>>2925287No one said that.
MEDS. NOW. >>2925021nah, this is real spontaneous anger from french proles. The right will villify labor organizing in any case, should the people be content to suffer and do nothing bc the right might attack them? Its up to communists to capture this popular anger and use it productively
>>2925290False post made up by leftkkkom since no multipolarist actually called it a color revolution.
>>2925291He didn't call it a color revolution he just criticized burning a firefighter and a random bystander which is pretty fair since when the fuck did firefighters ever behave badly towards anyone?
>>2925300You're a retard who fell for right wing propaganda, the firefighter got his eyebrows burned by an aerosol which exploded when he was trying to put out a small garbage fire, so no multipolarist it's not fair to post right wing disinformation tweets calling for genocide of brown people
>>2925312uyghur there's literally video of a protestor trying to ignite a random civilian woman on fire I don't care if you call yourself a communist if you do that you are not carrying out a revolution you are a sadist trying to either torture or kill random people for no reason
>>2925314>the imperialist fascist french government commits atrocities every day<but do you condemn the ultra violent eyebrow burning and garbage bin destruction??Wait a minute it's that Gaza psyop all over again
>>2925314i am not a communist or revolutionist or but i support it anyway.
aggression is needed against a government.
they are there to serve you not you serve them.
there was not a single revolution attempt that wasn't violent. not everyone can be gandhi or malcolm x
>>2925314>masked agitator attacks one person on camera (no arrests made)
>the other 'fire' is a completely fabricated image taken out of contextyeah ok faggot
>>2925300He also posted a Visegrad screenshot blaming the riots on "second and third generation migrants" (i.e. native born French citizens that happen to be brown).
>>>/leftypol/2924995all the parties to the right of staling*
>>2925157>europe no longer manufactures much anything- all sectors of the economy require labor, not just manufacturing. an engineer designing a machine is doing non-manufacturing work. a delivery driver carrying parcels is also labor without manufacturing, etc. etc. european countries use lots of labor and are some of the most productive in the world. your point hinges on memes and vibes, but if you look at the data you will see that cheap labor is essential for the european economy
- there is no such thing as "western" societies in a globalized capitalist world. culture under capitalism is just a costume, a consumable product, and an affectation. all the objects around you were made from the combination of labor and resources from all around the world
- the main strain on developed capitalist societies is exploitation, which, in economic terms, is higher in europe and the usa than it is in, say, india. exploitation and proletarization are, on the one hand, obstructing demographic reproduction, and on the other, disincentivizing technological progress
let me illustrate this to you. imagine that you work in manufacturing and you produce 20 units of labor. if your boss pays you 10 units, and then keeps the other 10 units as profits, the exploitation rate is 1/2 (profit / value produced). they pay 10, and get 20. any labor-saving technology in this scenario has to outperform the exploitation rate. in this case, that means that if a machine costs 1 unit, then it has to save at least 2 units of labor to be competitive. you can see that, the higher the exploitation rate, the less incentive there is for progress
this higher exploitation also means that the wage worker has a worse social standing. even if technological progress has made consumer goods cheaper, if your share of income in society diminishes, you're in a worse position, it doesn't matter if you can afford some trinkets. and what we see today is that this has got to the point where even if you may be able to comfortably sustain yourself, you can't afford children
>>2925344>native born French citizens that happen to be brownyeah, immigrants.
(/pol/ immigrant) >>2925300>False post made up by leftkkkom since no multipolarist actually called it a color revolution.There was another posts with a bunch of visegrad trash. All this is clearly what the other anon was referencing. Don't have to be such a sperg about it.
>>2925369You're not an immigrant in the country of your birth retard.
>>2925374We need a no-fly zone ober France immediately!
>>2925010>>2925015>burning shit isn't out of their "overton window" when it come to what can be done.I’d expect trash cans, not entire buildings.
The same libs that were screeching about the "brave" protesters in Iran are now crying and seething about the protesters in frogcountry, wishing for the police to take harder actions. Libs deserve to be shot.
>>2925395
What demarcates someone as "French" then if it's not being born in France?
will result in nothing award
>>2925393You must have lived under a rock, since the loi travail in 2016 the government went full authoritarian and no social concession with the proles, they stacked fascists in the police which became more and more violent exporting the tactics they've been using in the banlieues against brown people for a few decades, in turn that made all protestors obligated to rely on increasingly violent tactics.
Actually a lot of buildings burned as early as 2005 because the proles of the ghettos had enough of economic misery and police violence, and thus they rioted. The yellow vests burned quite a few banks, precincts and gendarmeries themselves, with also protests fires going out of control and destroying some random buildings but that's collateral damage. And in the last banlieues riots of 2023 a lot of shit burned as well.
>>2925404He's a bad faith racist imbecile, probably supporting nazis like Bardella the Italian or Zemmour the African
>>2924266I mean, this is a type 2 color revolution
it's the years of lead strategy: you force social confrontations and provoke riots to then justify a turn to the right. or better yet, make sure the libs vote for hitler in the next elections. which, btw, I'm not up to date with french electoral politics, but let me guess, there will be an election in less than 3 months
>>2925417Sorry but you're a conspiracy idiot and if you've been up to date with French politics you would know that's the narrative of the government that the highschooler movement is the result of a plot, which for them is an LFI (left wing party) one.
There is indeed an election in 6 months but it's extremely bad timing for them because on top of this a lot of other sectors of the working class are currently mobilizing, so they sent the police all in on the kids to try and stamp it out ASAP. The problem is that a lot of people like kids and don't like when the cops of the government torture and almost kill them, this is why the bourgeoisie and its media are going absolutely all in with the right wing propaganda and bootlicking which reeks of desperation (picrel is a macronist fake highschooler they put on TV to call off the movement!).
The truth is that the youth often mobilizes politically in France and tends to be left wing, this movement is organic, spontaneous and follows a tradition at the same time. It's ridiculous to call that a color revolution whether a leftypoler or the french president says it.
man it really is over for (actual white) French people watching footage of this shit France is more non white than I what I imagined in my worst nightmares(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
>>2925436
It's fine they are descendants from the French province of Algeria
>>2925431Guys watch out Napoleon managed to escape his island, get the guillotine ready.
>>2925436
So you wouldn't consider French people who have ancestors from other european countries to be french then?
>>2925436
>adopting the anglo definitions of nationality instead of the enlightment
omega cringe
>>2925443you're not wrong, the internet has enabled the upper class to mindfuck entire generations of people easily coupled with a general decline in education and material conditions most people just cant see the forest for the trees
>>2925443do you live in france? are you in contact with these people? can you speak and read french? what's your political background?
because this sounds more like you're going off the vibes you get from bourgeois media rather than on-the-ground sources or personal experience. btw, I don't think you understand what "leftcom" means. you sound quite mindbroken yourself. try going outside
if you haven't done your homework, if you haven't (or can't) look into these situations past the few newspaper headlines and webms that you get here or on social media, then you don't need to have an opinion. use your critical thinking: you have essentially no idea of what is actually going on, so don't get emotionally invested. matter of fact, you don't even need to have an opinion, just say you haven't looked into it
>>2925446>regurgitating demoralization and bourgeois propaganda>not wrongkill yourself. disregard my previous post; you're too stupid to engage in politics
>>2925450>no argumentcall me when the red flag is hanging from the big tower
>>2925395
>Born in France
>speaks French
>French citizen
They're French
>>2925436
>being descended from native frenchmen
"Native Frenchmen" are bastard mongoloid rape babies of Romans, Celts, and Germans.
These are the people that should be shot on sight >>2925395
>>2925443>these protests/riots will accoplish nothing other than leading to more palantir ai government surveillenceThey ain't needing any of that to push the police state, has been happening since the workers have been demanding stuff and the neoliberals couldn't be bothered to even give crumbs, we just get the stick now.
>the unions and parties arent stepping inLFI and other trotskyist left wing parties are stepping in, anarchists are stepping in, unions like CGT, SUD and so on are stepping in, there is a protest tuesday
>the youth have no plans, no concrete demands, no demands that are any goodYes the literal children who just became self aware and familiar with politics struggle to organize a militarized vanguard party and are a tad chaotic, but there are many demands like more means for teachers and schools, and the only plan they have, again as CHILDREN without any rights is to block, protest and riot
The kids who protest now are BASED and 100% less cucked than your average adult voter binging the spectacle and mindbroken internet demoralizers like you, they are speaking about politics to each other every day, taking control, learning and educating themselves about how society works and how to wage a power struggle, despite the atrocious violence they get from the fascist pigs it's a beautiful moment for many of them who are discovering true comradery and will become the next revolutionaries.
>>2925472They are also getting brutalized by the police and barred from employment with criminal records, its up for the 30/40 y/os of France to be stepping in and leading them rather than cynically using them to further neo-liberal agendas.
>>2925506Literal blackshirts lmao, they are so stoked about Bardella / Israel coop
>>2924504That sounds EXACTLY like the USA but it's way worse. Yet burgers don't rebel
>>2924309Honestly it kinda makes sense on why ACP will pander to them in fat land
And when they get really bad ennui they do manifestation nocturne (that sounds so cool)
>>2925450>you're too stupid to engage in politicsIs your posting online your definition of "engaging in politics", because we don't any evidence to the contrary that you are just as much an apolitical spectator and news consumer as the rest of us.
If this leads to another paris commune i will apologize to the frogs. Would give the communist movement a little spark that it hadnt had for decades now.
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/117824>>2925580
The point is french identity is not one of pure bloodline, from its very inception it had been a mix.
>>2925446>the internet has enabled the upper class to mindfuck entire generations It's not the upper class instilling fantasies of revolution in the youth.
>>2925973Well technically they do, considering the desire for change is brought by the material consequences of the policies dictated by the upper classes…
Only the Maoists are actually taking part in the popular movement. The revisionists are just sitting back - these "communist" parties should be put down like wounded horses simply for how worthless they are, unwilling to lead the masses.
>>2926008There's more shit planned for tuesday isn't there
>>2926008Well. If the state says it's over and it returned order! \(..)/
>>2926008Almost like the kids can't block their schools and go riot during the week-end when they are closed, we will tomorrow how it goes but friday the pigs arrested 1700 of them
>>2926324
French ethnicity is an oxymoron. The country's genepool is a heap of layers of Gauls, Franks, Normans, immediate and further neighbors. The scary brown people are just the last layer in date.
>>2926473/pol/tards don't understand that half of Provence has Italian family names, half of Alsace has German names, half of Brittany has Celtic names, half of Occitanie have Catalan and Basque names, and I could go on about the Brits in Dordogne, the Flemish influence in Nord-Pas-de-Calais, how the capital of Savoy used to Turin, and the clusterfucks that are Paris and Lyon. The French identity is a pure invention from Parisian imperialists, the south didn't even speak the langue d'oïl until relatively recently.
>>2926482I'm half "diagonale du vide" French, half Arab/Berber, I'm of sound mind and have no particular health problem. There is no glory in being a consanguin.
>>2925580
They point is that France is a mongrel nation and thus can't suddenly declare that the newest influx of genetic material is somehow less French than the last batch. Especially when you consider how hard they tried to make North Africa part of metropolitan France.
>>2926489How many children have been maimed at this point
>>2926495 For the most serious injuries, two lost an eyes, one has received explosion in the jaw, and one lost a hand
Cops need all to rot in a hole
>>2926496I think one lost their whole forearm too
>>2926496>>2926499So the police have probably caused more bodily harm than the muh violent youths
We already did all of this shit before. Deja vu amirite?
>>2926504They renamed the GLI-F4 or whatever but some still has enough explosive (20-30g) to maim and kill, you don't even have to pick them up, just be unlucky enough that a fascist pig does a (illegal) direct shot at you, and even if it explodes a few meters from you that's still a concussion and tinitus that can have less visible but life long consequences
>>2926512 (me)
Supposedly they phased the GLI-F4 out, the other ones like GML2 don't have TNT but a RDX mix that produces roughly the same blast wave
reminds me of the 2019 chile riots where lots of people lost their eyes to police brutality (the people of that country would later elect kast in an overwhelming 60% victory)
French cops are all basically israelis
>>2925448
<'because this sounds more like you're going off the vibes you get from bourgeois media rather than on-the-ground sources or personal experience. btw, I don't think you understand what "leftcom" means. you sound quite mindbroken yourself. try going outside'Exactly, these people who allow themselves to judge big big movements while just seeing videos of it on social medias
>>2926488>The French identity is a pure invention from Parisian imperialists, the south didn't even speak the langue d'oïl until relatively recently.and yet you call yourself half-french not half occitan-gaul
seems to me france isn't real only as long as you're not making the cut
>>2926551So you agree then that nationality and nationalism are arbitrary constructs
>>2924295>The highschoolers are the barometer of of social pressure in this countryHow dreadful. France is ran by a bunch of teenagers lul
>>2924315>Some public-sector positions would be eliminated, while Defence, Justice and Interior are among the areas receiving additional resources.Nothing fascistic there
>>2926729Especially since it was just an assembly, no occupation
>>2926729French cops are just fucking blackshirts at this point
>>2926551That shows how torough the ethnogenesis process was.
>>2925443Brother if you are a leftcom this is your favorite shit. No organization! No corrupt opportunists!
Unless by "leftcom" you mean internet contrarian leftist barely masking his misanthropy with vaguely left coded language
>>2926729>The pigs invaded the Sorbonne university to prevent the students to organize, pretty big dealWrong. It is over and order has returned, see:
>>2926008>>2926543https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_R%C3%A9mi_Fraisse >>2926868Rémi was killed by an OF1 which has three times the explosive charge, it was banned after that, a gli f4 or gm2l would probably have killed him too however sinced the grenade unluckily landed against his spine
>>2926872For years that wikipedia article spun a story about how it was just a teargas grenade that unfortunately ricochet off the side of something else and happened to hit him in the head. Just bad luck all around with nobody at fault!
The audacity really sticks with me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Killing_of_R%C3%A9mi_Fraisse&oldid=895792463 >>2925398Smart people like both
It's a crazy day, even the bourgeois aristocrat high school Henri IV is blocked, never happened
https://x.com/AlertesInfos/status/2107407603018117211⚠️ A crackdown on high school students—the figures tell the story:
• Two weeks of high school student protests: 5,060 police detentions (*gardes à vue*), including 4,400 minors.
• Yellow Vests (2018–2019): 6,730 detentions (over a year).
• 2016 Labor Law protests: 890 detentions.
• 2006 Anti-CPE movement: 1,920 detentions.
• 2005 riots: 4,500 detentions, including 950 minors.
• 1994 Anti-CIP movement: 250 detentions.
• 1986 Devaquet Law protests: 150 detentions.
• May 1968: approximately 700 arrests, of which… 95 resulted in police detention.
> To sum up: in just two weeks, there have been more detentions than during the entire 2005 riots (and those were… riots); almost as many as during the 12 months of Yellow Vest protests; twice as many as during the 2006 anti-CPE mobilization; six times as many as during the 2016 Labor Law protests; twenty times as many as during the 1994 anti-CIP movement… and fifty times as many as in May '68—even though the violence of the protesters is incomparable. Note that this high school student movement is only just beginning, so the figures will continue to skyrocket…
fuck those hypocrites in the eu, death to macron
>>2927250
There's no "key leaders" that's what even if they arrest and arrest it's still going on stronger and stronger
>>2927250
Im watching the protests right now how many of you retards are gonna post 'its over!' everyday?
>>2927249The sole good farmers Union, I love them
>>2927250
no source
France is not relevant, a revolution there would inevitably be surrounded, isolated, and eventually choked out like Cuba, that applies to literally everywhere that isn’t the US or China
>>2927300Isn't China state capitalist?
>>2927305Communism IS state capitalism because it’s exactly the crest on the horizon of possibilities, you’re not getting your fantasy where the need for labor specialization disappears and you can goon in the morning and hunt midday and critique in the evening
Protestors are running towards EU parliament in Strasbourg:
https://x.com/GaspardGlanz/status/2107512248474193951>>2927308So, so form of inequality is necessary, bro?
>>2927298you people need to make up your mind as to whether or not diversity is a strength or a punishment
>>2927318If labor specialization means inequality, then yes, maybe not as much as capital ownership creates, but it will still exist
sorry what are these riots about?
>>2927298>>2927320Retard on retard communication
Bilibili deleted all left-wing analysis videos about the french protests lmao
>>2927286am i retarded or is there just nopony here
>>2927347They have any interesting takes?
>>2927026you're obviously unqualified to talk about smart people
>>2927338not enough teacher, not enough supervisors, classrooms overloaded and overheating in summer, freezing in winter, underpaid teachers
It was zesty
>>2927263> RIOTS HAPPENING LIVE >>2927257> RIOTS HAPPENING LIVE Wrong. If you would consult the posts:
>>2927250 >>2926008 >>2927464"Protests are finished" said increasingly nervous rightoid for the umpteenth time.
That's what happens when kids are ungrateful. Boo hoo! Classroom sizes don't make a difference. So fucking petty.
Proletariat status?
>>2928546Really really hard*
All in on nothing
Protests are ending in paris
They are scared
"Lowering prices at the pump by 12 to 18 cents per liter, prime minister announces that France will release 10 million barrels of diesel from its strategic reserves." Not enough
"Education Minister Edouard Geffray announced on TF1 on Thursday evening that 3,000 substitute teachers would be deployed "between tomorrow and Tuesday" to the high schools where the situation is most critical." Too late, and we'll see in the next days but will not work and will be a mess with them as always
>>2924232I always forget how red blood can be
>>2928599First one was asked by the orange retard tho, unless he kept it in the local market somehow
>>2928668The brighter can indicate arterial, but not necessarily, though it's an indicator.
>>2927279mao spontex is back in town?
Is it over
>>2929242There have been protests against auteruty in Brussels too
>>2929242The highschoolers keep blocking although it's less massive but more militant, as in the ones who keep blocking effectively are the ones who organized. There was still a shit ton of people thursday for the protests with the unions and there will be again many people tuesday for Act V. Public opinion is 60% for while MSM is accusing Iran and ultraleftists of organizing this (by Allah I wish it was true)
Arnaud Bertrand, popular French China booster on Twitter and brother of a highschool teacher in France, claims that part of the frustration of students comes from the bizarre and frustrating "Parcoursup" system for getting into higher ed. Full copy below. You need to read this if you are a big dork who loves stories about bureaucratic fuckups and shitty regulations:
https://x.n0g.xyz/RnaudBertrand/status/2108066126764880261We keep seeing videos of clashes between French highschoolers and the police but almost no-one speaks about why these highschoolers are in the street, as if it all happened in a vacuum.
They have several complaints: missing teachers (a huge issue, almost 10% of class hours aren't taught at all according to the French ministry of education -
https://www.education.gouv.fr/depp/la-part-du-temps-d-enseignement-non-assure-dans-les-etablissements-publics-du-second-degre-en-2024-504512 - mostly due to missing teachers, it's insane, the equivalent of 2 whole days of class a month gone!), run-down buildings, classrooms above 40°C during summer, classes of 32-35 students, etc.
But, to me, the most salient complaint has to do with the new French system for getting into higher education, called "Parcoursup", which borders on the absurd and is a perfect illustration of France's Kafkaesque technocracy.
So, it used to be the case - when I was a highschooler in France myself - that getting to university or Grandes Écoles was relatively straightforward.
If you passed the bac - France's national end-of-high-school exam - you could enroll at your local uni. Dead simple.
And, if you wanted to go to a Grande École, you had to apply to a so-called "prépa" - a notoriously grueling two-year preparatory program - then sit the competitive exam. That wasn't simple at all but at least it was clear.
There was, admittedly, one issue with this system: since anyone with the bac could enroll into university, the most popular programs ended up with more applicants than seats, and had to resort to drawing lots.
In 2017, for instance, medicine in the Paris region received 8,507 first-choice applications for 7,650 places, and 857 applicants were left out by lottery (
https://www.letudiant.fr/educpros/actualite/apb-2017-premier-tirage-au-sort-en-paces.html). A real problem, but a narrow one, affecting a limited number of programs.
In typical French technocratic fashion, the government's answer was to take a sledgehammer to crack a nut. They decided to tear down the entire system - which had largely been established under Napoleon - and rebuild it from scratch, for all 640,000 high schoolers who apply every year.
Now, you will undoubtedly be surprised to learn that, among other absurdities in the new system, highschoolers still pass the baccalauréat ("bac") but it's become almost entirely useless.
It's very hard to describe the new Parcoursup system without giving you a headache, because it is very complex. And that's a big part of the issue.
I'm still going to try though.
Here's how it works. In your final year of high school, you list up to 10 choices of program (e.g. "law at Panthéon-Sorbonne University") on the Parcoursup platform, and you're not allowed to rank them. This includes prépas for Grandes Écoles as well.
Every program then ranks every single applicant according to their own criteria, which are variable and may change every year.
First 5 absurdities:
1) As a student you're institutionally not allowed to have preferences when applying, your 1st choice counts just as much as your 10th choice. And you can't game the system by selecting only 1 choice, because it gains you nothing: programs can't see your other choices anyway. Choosing only one program just removes your safety net.
2) You're playing a game whose rules are only revealed once most of the moves have been played.
Say you really want to go into a specific program - again, let's take the example of law at Panthéon-Sorbonne University: this program will only tell you which criteria it uses to rank you, and how much each one weighs, in December of your final year of high school, shortly before you apply on Parcoursup.
And by then, most of what you'll be judged on (your grades from the previous year, your choice of subjects, etc.) is already set in stone, so all you can do is look at the previous years' criteria and pray they don't change.
3) The most absurd of all. As we saw above, Parcoursup was meant to end the "injustice" of popular programs having more applicants than seats, and of drawing lots as a result.
This exact problem has now been compounded by an order of magnitude: since everyone applies to 10 programs without ranking them, each of these programs gets absolutely flooded with applicants, most of whom will end up elsewhere.
For instance, in 2025, law at Panthéon-Sorbonne received 19,404 applications for 745 seats (
https://questions.assemblee-nationale.fr/dyn/17/questions/QANR5L17QE9332.pdf). In other words, ironically, the new system took a problem that was an exception - hitting a limited number of students - and made it the rule for all 640,000 who apply each year, all in the name of solving it. Completely Kafkaesque!
4) The new system is - obviously - also unpopular with university teachers, who have to do the ranking. I mean: imagine being a law teacher at Sorbonne and being told that your job now includes having to join a committee that has to review and rank some 19,404 application files every year. At 3-4 minutes per file reported by one university committee (
https://www.letudiant.fr/educpros/actualite/parcoursup-dans-les-coulisses-d-une-commission-d-examen-des-voeux.html), that's 140-180 working days a year!
In practice, this means that committees rely on algorithms to pre-rank applicants and only look closely at some files. Which means students produce application files that nobody really reads: funnily, to prove this, a student last year replaced her cover letter with a brownie recipe and still got in (
https://www.franceinfo.fr/societe/education/parcoursup/parcoursup/parcoursup-une-lyceenne-admise-a-la-fac-grace-a-une-recette-de-cuisine_7299894.html).
5) And, yes, it means the bac - an institution in France, put in place by Napoleon - is now almost completely useless given that, by the time bac results come out in July, you've already gone through Parcoursup. As a result, whether you have a good or bad grade doesn't change your fate one bit, as long as you pass.
Getting a 19/20 gets you exactly the same as an 11/20: Napoleon's bac has been reduced to a pass/fail formality.
But that's not all, we haven't yet spoken about the process after you apply and start getting responses from programs, which happens starting early June.
This one is a real beauty of majestic French bureaucratic complexity.
So programs can give you one of 3 answers: yes, no, or waiting list. Waiting list means not yet, but maybe later if another candidate gives up their seat.
As a student, you have 3 rules:
Rule 1. Once you get a yes, you have two days to accept it (reduced to one day if the answer comes in mid-August), or you lose it.
Rule 2. You can only hold one "yes" at a time
Rule 3. You can keep your waiting-list places while holding a yes. If a program you prefer later says yes, you can switch to it, and your previous "yes" seat is released automatically.
And, funnily enough, once you've received your first answers, you're suddenly obliged to rank the programs you're still waitlisted on, within a four-day window, a few days before the bac. Any you forget to rank get deleted.
Are you lost by now? If you are, you're not alone: in one survey, only 6% of French parents find it transparent, and only 5% fair (
https://www.letudiant.fr/etudes/parcoursup/parcoursup-77-des-parents-anxieux-face-a-la-plateforme-selon-un-dondage-exclusif-l-etudiant-et-fcpe.html).
Quite an achievement for a system whose literal objective was to make access to higher education fairer and more transparent.
And it's not as if the problem hadn't been solved elsewhere, in ways France could have learned from.
For instance in China, once you have your Gaokao score - China's national university entrance exam, roughly equivalent to the French bac - you list your choices for university in order of preference and places are then filled in one go, best scores first: each student lands in the highest-ranked choice their score allows. Done. Procedurally fair - even brutally so - simple and transparent.
But no, we French had to somehow decide that - bizarrely - the bac wasn't going to count anymore but previous grades would, that students wouldn't be allowed to rank their choices (until, suddenly, they're forced to in June), that each program would invent its own criteria and only reveal them once most of your grades are set in stone, and that the whole thing would play out not in one go but over weeks of waiting lists and 48-hour deadlines. All ending in a system that piles an immense amount of work, complexity, anxiety and stress on everyone involved.
And it culminates with protests against the administrative Kafkaesqueness of it all, and tear gas for the kids complaining about it.
How very, very French.
>>2930152why dont french maoists launch a urban insurgency alrdy
>>2929278Is it from both the french and dutch communities?
>>2930146Not to sound like a dick, but this does all sound like the problem of the middle class educated. How does this movement hope to land with the broader working class who do not have the privilege to go to uni, do not even go to schools which present uni as an option, and are merely expected to join the workforce on leaving school?
These people, are probably the majority and the most disenfranchised but the relatively better off who will probably land on their feet but at worst have to just get a shit job like the rest of us are the ones that change must come for?
IDK. I just don't really feel that much sympathy with this class of people because they are just in it for themselves, as you present it it feels to me that it's just the sharp elbowed middle class complaining that they don't have it as easy as they once did and that their precious, definitely gifted children might have to haul bricks, stand behind a stove or clean toilets like the rest of us, which whatever, im not against them fighting for their own class interest per se, because i understand it as natural, but what i don't see is how this can ever metamorphise in to a revolutionary situation if it fails to speak to the rest of us, those destined to be the working poor, the precariat or thrown on the heap of long-term unemployed.
<t. Not french. >>2930365
Do those Africans speak french, dutch, or both?
>>2930163once we're all poor and stupid we will have communism I guess
The protests are done
>>2930163tsmt this is gonna die out it's purely based on student anger and isn't expanding the same thing is happening in albania (on a even more violent scale) right now. These protests are just the petite-bourgesisie mad they are losing their petite bourgesisie status as the rate of profit collapses.
The only good parts of this movement are the farmers and actual working class people taking advatage of the partial destablization, and also the communist parties. If those forces take the leading guard and body of the protests they MIGHT result in something.
>>2930146thank you for the explanation anon. now that is some absolutely convoluted shit lmao. i can kind of imagine how they might think this would be a good reform but as if with many examples with overwrought bureaucracy they either didnt consider or badly underestimated the amount of effort and stress would be required for specific steps in the process.
>>2932153>>2930146something that baffles me about this kind of bureaucratic overhaul: is there something stopping governments from rolling these things out in a limited fashion in stages, say starting with 30 highschools and 10 universities or however, to identify potential issues and adjust accordingly before it's rolled out to the whole country? like why was there not a stage where professors had the opportunity to say "this ends up creating much more work for us to the point where are selections are going go be somewhat arbitrary anyway"
HEC is like a right wing macronistan startup nation so crazy if it happens, crazy that students are even considering it
>>2932192>End frameYou just see a forehead or hand or something as the cameraman is prevented from filming the black bloc. lmao.
>>2932157Dude, you have absolutely no idea how absolutely abysmal the quality of french bureaucracy is. Reforms are commissioned by people who do not understand and do not care about the problems they're supposed to solve, cooked by people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing, then implemented according to vibes. And when it inevitably fuck up, you just left with an unsolved or worsened problem, lots of time and money wasted and nobody is accountable for the mess.
My country is quite well known for thoses
usines à gaz, absolutely time wasting useless systems.
>>2932194Economy obsessed liberals kept voting Macron because he was supposed to be the "mozart of the finance" fixing the debt and deficit and shit. Ten years later the IMF is talking about restructuring the economy because it's stagnant and deep in the hole lmao, he even beat the msm debt expectations of a LFI victory which had a neo keynesian spending plan mind you. Simply too much givas for the bourgeois, reckless spending for military garbage and that whole nuclear energy debacle. Still the retards will vote Glucksman or some shit
>>2932286
Yeah sure, decentralized protests from high schoolers against Macron, not a very big anti US/anti west guy; are color revolution lol. And melenchon and St-Denis mayor Bally Bagayoko are surely totally fond of NATO and CIA.
>>2932382you don't, everything under heaven being in chaos is an excellent situation for aura farming
>>2930163higher education no longer does guarantee a middle class (petit-boug or at least homeowner) lifestyle in the sense that was understood in the period when university became available to more people after ww2. if you're a worker with higher education today, you might be even more precarious and more exploited than people with "traditional working class" acumen like tradies.
>>2932294Melenchon who doesn't speak english or drink coca cola out of principled anti-americanism is secretly a CIA plant.
>>2932534>you might be even more precarious and more exploited than people with "traditional working class" acumen like tradies.Not everyone who doesn't go to uni finds work in the trades… A lot will have to be competing for the same manual labour and preceriate jobs as the lowest of the educated… Except they don't have an PhD FD MD whatever the TF to put in front of their name to bolster their chances.
The fact is trying to rely on students alone to produce real social change has and will never work. The absolute state of this board sometimes.
>>2932539No one is relying only on students to produce social change, the last 3 protests had a good chunk of union workers, everyone is calling for convergence des luttes. Sperging about petit bourgeois students not being heckin valid workers is the thing the MLoids did in may 68 before they were dragged kicking and screaming into a general strike btw
>>2932382Refusing to aurafarm in such a situation is a sign of personal weakness.
>>2932382>how do we stop the blight of retarded zoomers in other countries turning legitimate social grievances into aura farming events?Political Education. Why isn't that obvious to you?
Probably now in history is the time where people are least likely to show up to a protest basically unknowing and simply for the spectacle and carnival of it all, because they can get that fix through instagram reels instead, i'm not sure why even you would find issue with it.
>>2932762>i'm not sure why even you would find issue with it.have you noticed when a protest stops being about the initial issues and becomes a social media circus it immediately dies a few weeks after
>>2932821Not really, no. Protests have always ebbed and flowed with regard to activity. Do you actually remember protests before so many phones and social media usage?
Isn't it better them being on the streets where they can be politically educated then viewing it through the lens of social media itself?
>>2932821In cool movements the initial issue is always some little annoying bullshit and then it snowballs because everyone comes with their own grievances and thoughts and share that with the others. Then the protests die because the police keeps shooting at them while the money runs out to support the strikes or they get organized and consolidate around working class demands. Social media is in the end a small aspect of organic movements because most of it happens in the streets, blockaded workplaces, roundabouts, general assemblies etc.
Today is the day of nationwide protests, protesters in Paris plan to go to places of power (like the Elysée). Hope it won't be a big nothingburger and people are going to organize a lot of small protests and actions everywhere. There are vibecoded apps for organization, everybody is talking about it.
>>2933888>There are vibecoded apps for organization, link?
Already 50 arrested(pre protest police check) in Paris
Far right channel Cnews attacked early this morning "On the morning of Saturday, October 17, around a hundred hooded individuals attacked the Paris headquarters of CNews by hurling projectiles, shattering several windows, before being dispersed by the police."
Paris (from Paris luttes) :
Groups everywhere
11:00 AM: The ring road (périphérique) is blocked near Porte de Montreuil; the Esso station at Colonel Fabien was blocked and partially disabled this morning. Highly mobile groups are currently moving about in various areas—quite a few are wandering through the Opéra, Saint-Lazare, and Gare du Nord districts. The police are also roaming around with sirens blaring, often left clueless as to where to go. At Barbès and Place de Clichy, the police are positioning themselves for this afternoon, attempting to saturate the streets that lead southward toward the seats of power—where the "rare Pokémon" are hiding.
Paris : "10:30 a.m.: Gatherings are forming at Montparnasse and Gare du Nord; there is a heavy police presence at the latter, with reports of a "kettle" (encirclement) tactic being used. According to the prefecture, 40 people have already been detained for carrying protective gear.
10:00 a.m.: Security checks and searches are taking place inside and in front of most Parisian train stations, with some detentions reported in the surrounding areas. Checks are also being conducted at République."
Bismillah c'est les ténèbres
>>2932382Faillenials were much worse in the matter though. Half the sjw cringe compilation were from fat fuck millenial progs behaving like lunatics face camera between 2015-2018.
>>2933907La chance en vrais.
How many of these "protestors" are """students""", you know what I "mean"??? Like are they…."them", like you know what I "mean"??
dotp status? just do it already
color revolution
>>2934048Yes. And the colour is red.
>rightoids seethe about it
>cops are getting hurt
>palestine flags being waved
>the state's monopoly on force is being challenged
>whole bunch of shit is getting burned and smashed
In a world so abysmally hopeless and cruel, this is all I need to know to unKKKritiKKKally SVPPQVRT it
why no updates? some based shit happening
Sizzle status?
>>2934119Already fizzled out.
>>2934051>>2934115The lack of discussion about this on this godforsaken forum has really made me think I need to find other places too lurk, any recommendations
>>2934133leffysoy.st and bordiga.party has stuff and is more active
>>2934133If you find please do tell me
Most violent protest since 1968, even during the yellow vest it didn't went that far.
At paris protestors approched elysee(macron palace) multiple time
Protests so big fascists online are in the offensive big time. r/Europe filled with "at least France doesn't speak German :)" type posts. They are scared.
>>2934133but you guys riot all the time? Not much to discuss; it's like the boy who cried wolf. Are you guys actually gonna do anything this time? Call me when Macron resigns or you drag him out.
>>2934159Apparently protestors were multiple times one street away from Elysee but didn't made it
>>2934160Well good luck comrade, I hope you get him out. Would be pretty kino
>>2934160If you guillotine this banker fuck, I will learn French ( which I hate)
You guys do know he left the Elysee at the start of the protest pretty much ? They have a personal helicopter for that and nobody in the street has manpads
Early in the evening, protesters were 200 meters from the Élysée Palace, according to Le Monde. Now, 400 meters away, on Rue Cambacérès, there are stones on the ground, an overturned car, and a construction site hut pushed towards the riot police, who are charging with a stun grenade. (Le Parisien)
>>2934191Even if they don't literally slaughter Macron it still would be a pretty big deal to occupy the presidential palace
Apparently the West has Fallen??
Srsly tho our fascists are using the footage of that town hall burning as agitprop is it over?
>>2934206I hope your uyghur apefricans MUTUMBO pets eat you alive bbq style
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2934207You are a larper.
>>2934207Tears running while typing that lmao
>>2934159If this was Germany, Italy or the UK then it would be an explosive topic. But since it is France, it is seen as just another day of rioting in La France. The protesters have to do something that brings in the military or something.
>>2934140the Bord is going crazy over this the first thread already hit 1k posts
>>29341501968 was not violent. Very mythologized thing. Just post war society met their first riot.
>>2934285I guess it wasn't very nice there
>>2930146The US has a similar convoluted system for admissions to medical school, medical residency, and college generally.
>>2934285LOSE YOUR PROPERTY LOSE YOUR PROPERTY GET PROLETARIANIZED GET PROLETARIANIZED GET PROLETARIANIZED!!!!!!!!!!
>>2934228At this point it still is just another day of rioting in France. The protesters aren't organized, there is no vanguard. They're literally just rioting, looting and smashing stuff. Nothing will come out of this but bad rep for the political left and maybe some gains for rightoids. What a waste.
>>2934329>They're literally just rioting, looting and smashing stuff.Its too giga…
>>2934153I'm seeing retards (mostly yankees) saying this is Soros funded muh black and brown hordes
>>2934207Imagine calling yourself a nationalist and then repping the flag of people who would have raped your nation and its culture
Is the French Socialist Republic proclaimed yet?
If not this is a nothingburger
>>2934352>Is the French Socialist Republic proclaimed yet?Yes, the police just went over to the protesters. Macron has fled the country aboard a secret service airplane
/r/europe is censoring these protests and deleting all thread. Claiming that "someone is pushing anti European messages"
>>2934373It was filled with "muh oak tee door" nazi posting. Seems like the mods are basic Macronists.
>>2934383Anti-EU nazis
Pro-EU liberals
Its not that hard to understand.
>>2934386EU = the third reich
and nothing will change. what a waste of time
>>2934423Pretty much yeah, looks cool
C'est quoi le délire avec les gens qui disent que ça sert à a rien niquez vous le bureau des legende mdr, bismillah c'est les tenebres
>>2934457Russia is a imperialist / fascist right wing state committing genocide but its still based they are spreading propaganda about this.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1895/03/06.htmIntroduction to Karl Marx’sThe Class Struggles in France 1848 to 1850
>When the February Revolution broke out, all of us, as far as our conceptions of the conditions and the course of revolutionary movements were concerned, were under the spell of previous historical experience, particularly that of France. It was, indeed, the latter which had dominated the whole of European history since 1789, and from which now once again the signal had gone forth for general revolutionary change. It was, therefore, natural and unavoidable that our conceptions of the nature and the course of the “social” revolution proclaimed in Paris in February 1848, of the revolution of the proletariat, should be strongly coloured by memories of the prototypes of 1789 and 1830. Moreover, when the Paris uprising found its echo in the victorious insurrections in Vienna, Milan and Berlin; when the whole of Europe right up to the Russian frontier was swept into the movement; when thereupon in Paris, in June, the first great battle for power between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie was fought; when even the victory of its class so shook the bourgeoisie of all countries that it fled back into the arms of the monarchist-feudal reaction which had just been overthrown — there could be no doubt for us, under the circumstances then obtaining, that the great decisive battle had commenced, that it would have to be fought out in a single, long and vicissitudinous period of revolution, but that it could only end in the final victory of the proletariat.
>After the defeats of 1849 we in no way shared the illusions of the vulgar democrats grouped around the future provisional governments in partibus. [In partibus infidelium — in the land of the infidels, outside reality — an addition to the title of Catholic bishops appointed to non-Christian countries] These vulgar democrats reckoned on a speedy and definitive victory of the “people” over the “tyrants”; we reckoned on a long struggle, after the removal of the “tyrants”, among the antagonistic elements concealed within this “people” itself. The vulgar democrats expected sparks to fly again any day; we declared as early as autumn 1850 that at least the first chapter of the revolutionary period was closed and that nothing was to be expected until the outbreak of a new world economic crisis. For which reason we were excommunicated, as traitors to the revolution, by the very people who later, almost without exception, made their peace with Bismarck — so far as Bismarck found them worth the trouble.
<But history has shown us too to have been wrong, has revealed our point of view at that time as an illusion. It has done even more; it has not merely dispelled the erroneous notions we then held; it has also completely transformed the conditions under which the proletariat has to fight. The mode of struggle of 1848 is today obsolete in every respect, and this is a point which deserves closer examination on the present occasion.
>There had long been universal suffrage in France, but it had fallen into disrepute through the way it had been abused by the Bonapartist government. After the Commune there was no workers’ party to make use of it. It had also existed in Spain since the republic but in Spain election boycotts had been the rule for all serious opposition parties from time immemorial. The experience of the Swiss with universal suffrage was also anything but encouraging for a workers’ party. The revolutionary workers of the Latin countries had been wont to regard the suffrage as a snare, as an instrument of government trickery. It was different in Germany. The Communist Manifesto had already proclaimed the winning of universal suffrage, of democracy, as one of the first and most important tasks of the militant proletariat, and Lassalle had again taken up this point. Now that Bismarck found himself compelled to introduce this franchise as the only means of interesting the mass of the people in his plans, our workers immediately took it in earnest and sent August Bebel to the first, constituent Reichstag. And from that day on they have used the franchise in a way which has paid them a thousandfold and has served as a model to the workers of all countries. The franchise has been, in the words of the French Marxist programme, transformé de moyen de duperie qu'il a été jusquici en instrument d'emancipation — transformed by them from a means of deception, which it was before, into an instrument of emancipation. And if universal suffrage had offered no other advantage than that it allowed us to count our numbers every three years; that by the regularly established, unexpectedly rapid rise in our vote it increased in equal measure the workers’ certainty of victory and the dismay of their opponents, and so became our best means of propaganda; that it accurately informed us of our own strength and that of all opposing parties, and thereby provided us with a measure of proportion second to none for our actions, safeguarding us from untimely timidity as much as from untimely foolhardiness — if this had been the only advantage we gained from the suffrage, it would still have been much more than enough. But it did more than this by far. In election propaganda it provided us with a means, second to none, of getting in touch with the mass of the people where they still stand aloof from us; of forcing all parties to defend their views and actions against our attacks before all the people; and, further, it provided our representatives in the Reichstag with a platform from which they could speak to their opponents in parliament, and to the masses outside, with quite different authority and freedom than in the press or at meetings. Of what avail was their Anti-Socialist Law to the government and the bourgeoisie when election campaigning and socialist speeches in the Reichstag continually broke through it?
>With this successful utilisation of universal suffrage, however, an entirely new method of proletarian struggle came into operation, and this method quickly took on a more tangible form. It was found that the state institutions, in which the rule of the bourgeoisie is organised, offer the working class still further levers to fight these very state institutions. The workers took part in elections to particular diets, to municipal councils and to trades courts; they contested with the bourgeoisie every post in the occupation of which a sufficient part of the proletariat had a say. And so it happened that the bourgeoisie and the government came to be much more afraid of the legal than of the illegal action of the workers’ party, of the results of elections than of those of rebellion.
<For here, too, the conditions of the struggle had changed fundamentally. Rebellion in the old style, street fighting with barricades, which decided the issue everywhere up to 1848, had become largely outdated.
>Let us have no illusions about it: a real victory of insurrection over the military in street fighting, a victory as between two armies, is one of the rarest exceptions. And the insurgents counted on it just as rarely. For them it was solely a question of making the troops yield to moral influences which, in a fight between the armies of two warring countries, do not come into play at all or do so to a much smaller extent. If they succeed in this, the troops fail to respond, or the commanding officers lose their heads, and the insurrection wins. If they do not succeed in this, then, even where the military are in the minority, the superiority of better equipment and training, of uniform leadership, of the planned employment of the military forces and of discipline makes itself felt. The most that an insurrection can achieve in the way of actual tactical operations is the proficient construction and defence of a single barricade. Mutual support, the disposition and employment of reserves — in short, concerted and co-ordinated action of the individual detachments, indispensable even for the defence of one borough, not to speak of the whole of a large town, will be attainable only to a very limited extent, and usually not at all. Concentration of the military forces at a decisive point is, of course, out of the question here. Hence passive defence is the predominant form of struggle; an attack will be mounted here and there, by way of exception, in the form of occasional thrusts and assaults on the flanks; as a rule, however, it will be limited to the occupation of positions abandoned by retreating troops. In addition, the military have at their disposal artillery and fully equipped corps of trained engineers, means of warfare which, in nearly every case, the insurgents entirely lack. No wonder, then, that even the barricade fighting conducted with the greatest heroism — Paris, June 1848; Vienna, October 1848; Dresden, May 1849 — ended in the defeat of the insurrection as soon as the leaders of the attack, unhampered by political considerations, acted according to purely military criteria, and their soldiers remained reliable.
>The numerous successes of the insurgents up to 1848 were due to a great variety of causes. In Paris, in July 1830 and February 1848, as in most of the Spanish street fighting, a civic guard stood between the insurgents and the military. This guard either sided directly with the insurrection, or else by its lukewarm, indecisive attitude caused the troops likewise to vacillate, and supplied the insurrection with arms into the bargain. Where this civic guard opposed the insurrection from the outset, as in June 1848 in Paris, the insurrection was vanquished. In Berlin in 1848, the people were victorious partly through considerable reinforcements in the shape of new fighting forces during the night and the morning of March 19th, partly as a result of the exhaustion and poor rations of the troops, and, finally, partly as a result of the paralysis engendered by the command. But in all cases the fight was won because the troops failed to respond, because the commanding officers lost the faculty to decide or because their hands were tied.
<Even in the classic time of street fighting, therefore, the barricade produced more of a moral than a material effect. It was a means of shaking the steadfastness of the military. If it held out until this was attained, victory was won; if not, the outcome was defeat. This is the main point which must be kept in view, also when examining the outlook for possible future street fighting. [The last sentence is omitted in Die Neue Zeit and in the 1895 edition of Die Klassenkampfe in Frankreich 1848 bis 1850]
>Back in 1849 already, this outlook was pretty poor. Everywhere the bourgeoisie had thrown in its lot with the governments, “culture and property” had hailed and feasted the military moving against insurrection. The barricade had lost its magic; the soldier no longer saw behind it “the people”, but rebels, subversives, plunderers, levellers, the scum of society; the officer had in the course of time become versed in the tactical forms of street fighting, he no longer marched straight ahead and without cover against the improvised breastwork, but went round it through gardens, yards and houses. And this was now successful, with a little skill, in nine cases out of ten.
<But since then there have been very many more changes, and all in favour of the military. If the big towns have become considerably bigger, the armies have become bigger still. Paris and Berlin have, since 1848, grown less than fourfold, but their garrisons have grown more than that. By means of the railways, these garrisons can, in twenty-four hours, be more than doubled, and in forty-eight hours they can be increased to huge armies. The arming of this enormously increased number of troops has become incomparably more effective. In 1848 the smooth-bore, muzzle-loading percussion gun, today the small-calibre, breech-loading magazine rifle, which shoots four times as far, ten times as accurately and ten times as fast as the former. At that time the relatively ineffective round shot and grape-shot of the artillery; today the percussion shells, of which one is sufficient to demolish the best barricade. At that time the pick-axe of the sapper for breaking through fire proof walls; today the dynamite cartridge.
<On the other hand, all the conditions of the insurgents’ side have grown worse. An insurrection with which all sections of the people sympathise is hardly likely to recur; in the class struggle all the middle strata will never in all probability group themselves around the proletariat so exclusively that in comparison the party of reaction gathered round the bourgeoisie will well-nigh disappear. The “people”, therefore, will always appear divided, and thus a most powerful lever, so extraordinarily effective in 1848, is gone. If more soldiers who have seen service came over to the insurrectionists, the arming of them would become so much the more difficult. The hunting and fancy guns of the munitions shops — even if not previously made unusable by the removal of part of the lock on police orders — are far from being a match for the magazine rifle of the soldier, even in close fighting. Up to 1848 it was possible to make the necessary ammunition oneself out of powder and lead; today the cartridges differ for each gun, and are everywhere alike only in one point, namely, that they are a complicated product of big industry, and therefore not to be manufactured ex tempore, with the result that most guns are useless as long as one does not possess the ammunition suited only to them. And, finally, since 1848 the newly built quarters of the big cities have been laid out in long, straight, broad streets, tailor-made to give full effect to the new cannons and rifles. The revolutionary would have to be mad to choose of his own accord the new working class districts in the north or east of Berlin for a barricade fight.
>Does that mean that in the future street fighting will no longer play any role? Certainly not. It only means that the conditions since 1848 have become far more unfavourable for civilian fighters and far more favourable for the military. In future, street fighting can, therefore, be victorious only if this disadvantageous situation is compensated by other factors. Accordingly, it will occur more seldom at the beginning of a great revolution than at its later stages, and will have to be undertaken with greater forces. These, however, may then well prefer, as in the whole great French Revolution or on September 4 and October 31, 1870, in Paris, the open attack to passive barricade tactics.
<Does the reader now understand why the powers-that-be positively want to get us to go where the guns shoot and the sabres slash? Why they accuse us today of cowardice, because we do not take without more ado to the streets, where we are certain of defeat in advance? Why they so earnestly implore us to play for once the part of cannon fodder?
<The gentlemen pour out their petitions and their challenges for nothing, for absolutely nothing. We are not that stupid. They might just as well demand from their enemy in the next war that he should accept battle in the line formation of old Fritz, [Frederick II] or in the columns of whole divisions a la Wagram and Waterloo, and with the flint-lock in his hands at that. If conditions have changed in the case of war between nations, this is no less true in the case of the class struggle. The time of surprise attacks, of revolutions carried through by small conscious minorities at the head of masses lacking consciousness is past. Where it is a question of a complete transformation of the social organisation, the masses themselves must also be in on it, must themselves already have grasped what is at stake, what they are fighting for, body and soul. >>2934464>Even in the classic time of street fighting, therefore, the barricade produced more of a moral than a material effect.HE DONT MISS
What is the makeup of the protest and what are the general demands (as far as they exist)? All I see is right-wingers talking about the african muslim hordes culturally attacking Evropean civiliation etc
>>2934471Your usual gaggle of petite bourgeois student “radicals” who’ve never worked a day in their life, while lumpen hordes of all races and nationalities just participate so they can loot. BLM but without the race idpol
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2934473>>2934478I don't get what was /pol/ about what he said.
>all races and nationalities just participate so they can loot. >>2934496we aren't at >and if it happened they deserved it part of doubling down yet for now it's either a revolution of proletariat or you're /pol/
>>2934471>What is the makeup of the protest and what are the general demands (as far as they exist)?Recount:
<1. The lycée and student movement: the engine. after a teachers’ strike over staffing on 17 September, a 17 year old "première sutdent" told franceinfo: "The teachers explained the reasons for their dissatisfaction to us, and we decided to join them." The initial demands were very concrete:
>Missing French teachers for students sitting the bac>no training supervisor to validate compulsory internships in the vocational streamsand
>not enough tables in some rooms.(See below a more explained list of demands)
The callers were:
>The Union syndicale lycéenne (USL) and
>the Union étudiante (UE)Later on, the
>UNEFand
>FAGEJoined (more teachers' unions)
The main speaker is
>(Les Lycéens !) vice-president Louis LetoublonLes Lycéens means, something, like 'the highschoolers!'
By October 13th more than480,000 (organisers) / 161,500 (Interior, 41,500 Paris) joined.
>Their demands, from the USL/UE call: a mass recruitment plan guaranteeing a teacher in every class plus nurses, social workers and surveillants; an end to selection via Parcoursup and MonMaster; renovated buildings; adequate grants and housing aid; the €1 student meal protected from the budget vote; no tuition hike or APL removal for foreign students; and an end to police repression of the movement.
<2. The trade unions: the budget frontOn 29 September, ran a first day of action centered on the civil service. Then on 5 October a massive intersyndicale of CFDT, CGT, FO, UNSA and FSU
These are:
>CFDT (Confédération Française Démocratique du Travail)Profile: The largest union in France by membership and overall workplace election results.
Ideology: Reformist and center-left/moderate.
>CGT (Confédération Générale du Travail)Profile: The oldest and most iconic French union confederation, historically dominant in heavy industry, transport, and energy sectors
Ideology: Left-wing and militant
>FO (Force Ouvrière)Profile: Officially known as CGT-FO, it was born in 1947 from a historic split within the CGT. Anti-communist activists broke away because they objected to the PCF's political stranglehold over the CGT at the start of the Cold War.
Ideology: Strictly committed to political independence. It is highly diverse, housing various leftist, socialist, and even Trotskyist currents.
>UNSA (Union Nationale des Syndicats Autonomes)Profile: A confederation formed in 1993 to bring together independent ("autonomous") union.
deology: Pragmatic, reformist, and politically neutral.
>FSU (Fédération Syndicale Unitaire)Profile: Unlike the others, the FSU is not a cross-sector national confederation. It is a specialized federation that heavily dominates the education sector.
Ideology: Left-wing and socially progressive.
The demands were inmmediate wage nagotiations in every firm and branch, higher pensions, an increase in the civil service "index point", a higher SMIC and social benefits. Their economic plan: “taxing wealth, inheritances, and dividends; evaluating, attaching conditions to, and redeploying the 211 billion in public subsidies.”.
In 13 October, the CGT and the teachers' intersyndicale struck an alliance.
<3. The fuel revolt: fuel prices. rapid increase and the return of the Gilets Jaunes (yellow vests) return. (Thanks Iran): Trump fucked up. Macron must be angry at trump.
Different non-syndicalized individuals, representatives and organizations called to protest diesel prices on 17 October. Which leads to:
<4. 17 October: the convergence:Lycéens, students, Gilets Jaunes, climate activists and unionists marched together under the banner “contre la vie chère.” (against the high cost of living.)
>550,000 (Interior Minister Laurent Nuñez, including 110,000 in Paris) to 800,000 (organisers). The CGT claimed over 500,000 on its own.>1,800 arrests nationally, 855 in Paris; Paris prosecutors recorded 557 gardes à vue, 381 adults, 151 minors, 25 of undetermined age.>150 police and gendarmes injured.>Limoges city hall, built 1876–1883, destroyed by fire. Lyon’s tourist office burned. Nantes and Angers city halls ransacked; a fire started in Angers’s mail room. Lille’s city hall doors forced. The Gironde prefect’s residence sacked — Sophie Brocas condemned it; RAID was deployed. 40 shops looted in Marseille.>A 17-year-old in Saint-Étienne had his hand blown off by a police grenade; the IGPN is investigating. Stun grenades had already been suspended for lycée mobilisations.That's why the AFP stated that people were shouting “Révolution,”, and it was more intense than the 2023 riots or the 2018–19 Gilets Jaunes days.
That's the recap.
Everyone that thinks it's "le lumpen chimpout" need to stop sitting their fat asses in their chair and do something about it, pull out that lenin quote about actually going with the masses instead of sneering on them from the sides
>>2934473The more the small capitalist untouchable cult gets eroded, the better.
>>2934496>>2934496He accused a broad coalition of people of being "bourgeois student “radicals”"
When in fact, the organization has a loot of grassroots elements, as here is highlighted:
>>2934504The students and teachers protesting are part of the public schools.
Now, about the riots, there are some evidences of the french police inciting the violence. probably macron trying to justify harsher political and economic repression, through the Sherwood Syndrome.
And I believe it, look macron, all pompous, in a celine dione concert in Paris:
https://www.jfeed.com/news-world/tn3wns (and vidrel)
>>2934516I didn't comment if he's right or wrong, I just don't see how his comment qualifies as /pol/ or is ban worthy.
>>2934503Yeah I guess once a consensus that a certain le manifestation is based, it becomes sacrosanct and all derision is off-limits. But we can still joke about whatever American costume parade and smash and grabs.
>>2934517Yeah, sectarian and reactionary posts are usually /pol/ and banworthy.
>>2934520But that was the general sentiment of the whole thread so far from what I've seen. I just don't get this new direction with the moderation:
>>2934413>Even though the protests likely wont amount to much, stuff like this does go hard. Good for the french>>2934428>Pretty much yeah, looks cool>>2934423>We have done nothing of accomplishment, but at least we have hype and aura moments >>2934427>and nothing will change. what a waste of time>>2934443>C'est quoi le délire avec les gens qui disent que ça sert à a rien niquez vous le bureau des legende mdr, bismillah c'est les tenebres>>2934352>Is the French Socialist Republic proclaimed yet?>If not this is a nothingburger>>2934329>At this point it still is just another day of rioting in France. The protesters aren't organized, there is no vanguard. They're literally just rioting, looting and smashing stuff. Nothing will come out of this but bad rep for the political left and maybe some gains for rightoids. What a waste.>>2934306>I may not get the revolution but I will get a macbook M5 with 128gb ram for free when I stop by the fnac next saturday>>2934228>If this was Germany, Italy or the UK then it would be an explosive topic. But since it is France, it is seen as just another day of rioting in La France. The protesters have to do something that brings in the military or something.>>2934159>but you guys riot all the time? Not much to discuss; it's like the boy who cried wolf. Are you guys actually gonna do anything this time? Call me when Macron resigns or you drag him out. This sucks
>>2934520>circlejerkWhat do you think it's going to happen if you don't regulate sectarian and reactionaries discourses?
see /po/, they all talk about how the 'moodsleems and blacks are destroying le beautiful white western civilization' inbreeding a true circlejerk of reaction and sectarian shit.
this wont result in anything.
Is there dual power? Are they occupying entire buildings premently and establishing new forms of self-governace?
If not its a nothing burger
>>2934530> Anime Flag France.mp4bro I was at this protest it's montpellier just under the triumph arc, we were so many I never even saw this
>>2934537kill yourself, go and kill all the other bourgeois before you do yourself, like put all the bourgeois in a big building an drive a plane into it
>>2934541>kill yourself, go and kill all the other bourgeois before you do yourself, like put all the bourgeois in a big building an drive a plane into itAre you having some kind of psychotic break right now? What's going on.
Frenchmen and peeing on things, name a more iconic duo.
>>2934547
Geg euro knockoff of the turner diaries
>>2934537Is he criticizing the protesters or the jogger
>>2934555Pls… italia… save italia… pls
>>2934573This is NOT a lumpen chimpout. This is an ORGANIZED STUDENT movement, CHUD!
>>2934573>>2934575>>2934573lmao. that's something the comic store guy would do, being angry at the mob and mad and sour about that.
in all seriousness, let them loot. what else can he save? look at the state of the store already, all trashed. and join the rest.
in any case, most likely scenario he won't be taking vacations to japan for a couple of years. not too much empathy for the petit bourgeoisie
Mort aux voleurs
>>2934555I'm glad this mfs daugther was slimed lmao
>>2934620Gotta find a way to stay relevant after losing the World Cup lmao
>>2934624
Wrong thread?
>>2934620It's a retard AI attempt of "hit the nail"
>>2934573people who like anime are fascist coded
what's this gonna do besides elect a strong majority fascist government because "we need law and order"?
>>2934646le pen was gonna get elected anyway
might as well practice for even bigger protests under that bitch à youpin
>>2934647why she kinda bad doe
>>2934666>>2934669It's video two if you want to see:
>>2934534 >>2934671Yeah but she passes rally well in the face
>>2934647>>2934666>>2934669>>2934671>>2934676Why do you assume they're a girl or transitioning to be a girl?
>>2934681I know its a big assumption, i was saying it in a lighthearted way. They are definitely some flavour of queer doe
>>2934646>you should never ever revolt or else they're gonna voot for a far right party to replace the center right party!!!Pathetic
>>2934573Why won't they target government buildings? I don't think the comic book guy is causing your school to lose funding.
>>2934724they wanna loot madoka magica figurines
>>2934724They burnt a town hall. That’s about it so far besides the schools.
>>2934729the USSR was shitlib since 1922 so it checks out
>>2934735Not a place of power
>>2934573that hit from behind was really low…
>>2934575"C'est le plus mauvais émeute qui soit."
>>2934728Not the one in Nice. The Hôtel de Ville the city hall is only 1.6 km away from this shop.
>>2934573>>2934575Worst.
Riot.
Ever.
A barometer predicts weather, it doesn't cause it. The 2016 loi travail strikes, the 2018-19 gilets jaunes, the 2023 banlieue riots — every one of those was bigger than this and every one ended with the state more entrenched, more surveillance law, more riot-cop funding. The "something big always follows" pattern is actually "a concession is announced, demobilization follows, the concession is quietly reversed two years later."
The actual tell here is in the OP's own reporting: the CGT calls a strike for Tuesday. If the unions and LFI can absorb this into a one-day demonstration with a negotiated exit, it's over. That's not a prediction of betrayal, it's just the mechanical function of a movement with no organization, no demands that can be negotiated, and a constituency (minors) that legally cannot sustain a general strike. The kids are right to be furious. Fury isn't a strategy. The lesson they're learning is "riot, get your hand blown off, watch it change nothing," and I'd rather they learn that lesson from someone organizing them than from the prefecture.
I challenge one anon ITT to be able to name one concrete demand this movement has that the French government could actually concede.
>>2934767>The actual tell here is in the OP's own reporting: the CGT calls a strike for Tuesday. What, does it say that in one of the videos? The OP is from 17 days ago so it was probably last Tuesday or the one before that.
Be a Left or Right /pol/, all of them really love a Happening of some sort, even if it will become a nothing burger as always
>bro, it's a revolution!
Nah, just another french protest, remember to always bet on "nothing ever happens"
Controlled burn theory wins again
>>2926494Why is this hellhole the only place that's mentioned farmers and the countryside joining in on the protests? Seems like the whole world has gone with the "just a bunch of rioting uyghurs burning down their cities for no reason" narrative and ran with it. Really muddies the waters.
>>2934373Reddit was always a glowop
so uh will the french govt make concessions to end the riots?
they fucking killed the street medic?
>>2934917what are you talking about?
>>2934800because the farmers were protesting while everyone's focused on the riots
farmer's been protesting non-stop since monsanto deal got announced or even earlier, no one cared back then either because they didn't go around marudering
R there any actual French anons
>>2934646>>2934904This argument is so ass lmao. RN were already gonna win. This doesn't change anything. It's what libs call "polarization".
>>2934922until 'farmers' stop being kulaks and give their produce to the masses for free instead of destroying it out of 'protest' to receive more gibs from the state and the EU, these farmers can suck my nuts
>>2934937I wouldn't count the LFI out. Polls notoriously underestimate them and the media attacks them constantly because they know that if the LFI were in power they might have a difficult time getting bribes.
>>2934937>This doesn't change anythingThe election is not the point, you're thinking short term.
Two phenomena to consider:
>politically formed adults switching side>the new generation developing political consciousness First one is very rare and doesn't happen under normal conditions. You need a deeply felt crisis, a culturally shocking event, a rapid societal change or something similarly traumatic for this to occur on a noticeable scale. Less politicized people, non-voters or centrists are the main subjects, but you occasionally get radicals as well, feeling betrayed by their own side and turning heel.
This works both left-to-right and right-to-left depending on the issue and voter in question. It's also incremental, meaning a single happening may be insufficient but two or three of those events in the span of X years can indeed break the camel's back.
One recent example I can name is covid. I work with boomers in a particularly lefty area full of '68 tankies and the amount of people that switched to right wing sovereigntist parties after the pandemic should be studied. Didn't even happen straight away, it took a couple of years to crystallize.
Some of them paradoxically still describe themselves as communists (I'm talking about the kind of people that has a Marx phone wallpaper or a hammer and sickle flag in the living room) while endorsing openly fascist-adjacent parties. Doesn't have to make logical sense really, people straight up voting against their interests and even ideology is nothing new or uncommon.
Can't say this specific example is widespread outside of my country or even my region though, not what I'm claiming.
Second phenomenon, on the other hand, is the standard. Teens usually default to left wing ideologies and causes, but specific combinations of factors can lead to exceptions as well. A left wing majority keeping power throughout their development (becoming the perceived "establishment") with no real socialist parties/movement to fill the radical spot, a ubiquitous mainstream endorsement and promotion of progressive messaging, a particularly egregious event monopolizing the news cycle, it can all lead to kids eventually going right wing.
My gf is a high school teacher and we had our own George Floyd protests-like moment at some point; she said kids went from supporting the riots to bringing Ben Shapiro talking points to the classroom in the span of weeks. I can guarantee you those kids are now part of the "youth voting far-right" block shown by our polls.
What I'm saying is,
the more this french fire rises and grows in scope and intensity, the more it's going to weight on both phenomena.
Riots won't turn half the people to a different party, but widespread damage and destruction of cultural and historical hotspots WILL cause a very small percentage of voters to flip, and the outcome of European elections is often determined by very small percentages adding or subtracting seats to/from a coalition. Maybe you won't even feel the effects in this specific election, but it unwise is to underestimate this dynamic.
Even worse, it's planting the seeds for young votes you'll only notice a few years from now.
>>2934646I've just seen a poll that 7/10 Frenchies support the protest last weekend.
>>2934996I've seen a poll stating that many people in France think that police is too easy on protestors. Which one is true?
>>2934999They don't necessarily contradict, so both? In this case yours seems more relevant though.
Anyway, I actually looked up the source for what I was saying and it's a lot more nuanced than just broad support for everything
https://elabe.fr/mobilisations-sociales/ >>2934991>action creates reactionOk
>>2934991the rabid police violence against whats clearly kids prolly made a whole lot more people go anti police / pro left than the usual smashies headlines make them go right
Protests are nothing more than controlled tantrums the state allows you to have so revolution doesn’t happen
>>2935159not one for reading history are you
>>2935172You think the contemporary imperial core state hasn’t figured out how to control the social boil?
>>2935140polacks are petite bourggie middle class labor aristocrats so no surprise there
>>2935175They are
managing the boiling milk when it spills out. The state control here is merely
damage control >>2935240They’re the ones that turned on the burner in the first place just like they’ve been doing since 1789
text
in mexico we also had riots during the weekend and people were flying palestine's flag while trying to burn the city hall in guadalajara over water pollution
why are there retards who bring palestine's flag to every unrelated protest and potential riot? are they paid agitators or just mentally handicapped?
>>2935279they're just retarded
>>2935301
>muslim respect the "jewish" jesus
AND I DON'T, Capiche?
Marie was a fucking child when she got fucked by Yahweh to give birth to himself???
and Mohamed was a Pedo too.
I don't need to talk about the Jews, You know it, I know it, Everyone knows it, Let's not fool ourselves.
>BREAKING: France has announced a partial ban on protesting on Monday night
>>2935305
Who cares you fucking suburbanite?
>>2935316>I banned losing so i can't lose anymoreNo shit they be protesting against these retards.
>>2935323
>I don't see modern christian doing that, bro
not anymore but who knows?
Yeah they realized they can keep their hatred for everything inside themselves.
Like a Woman.
>as far being the responsible for major terror crime around the world
Sounds based to me, Communism even.
Anyway, Christian love as fake as Islamic peace and Jewish innocence. all these Abrahimic bullshitology can go fuck themselves.
>>2935325
Good luck! I'm already in your walls…
>>2935349Oh yeah, 250 years existence, 17 years of peace. and competing with Chengis kahn and Empire era Japan in numbers of committing war crimes.
What a great christo-secular? something country.
Fucking crackers dare to cry Alligator tears for us.
>>2935278Seething reaction to text
>>2935066last night my own mom (extremely progressive lifelong left wing voter) sent me the video of that fat comicbook/videogame guy getting kicked around trying to defend his small nerd shop. A week ago she was siding with the protesters, now she's calling them "bastard thugs exploiting the cause" or something along those lines.
I can guarantee you the optics are terrible on both sides.
Mort aux voleurs
>>2935813I agree, cops should die
>>2935394Fascists defer all thought to the hivemind (a upper class pedo)
>>2935767>she was siding with the protesters, now she's calling them "bastard thugs exploiting the cause" or something along those lines.sounds like the ones shes calling out
are "the bastard thugs exploiting the cause" and not "the protesters". And the inability of police to actually protect shit while still doing ultra violent repression of pacific protesters isnt a good look for them either.
and honestly the looting is the only annoying material consequence for the government, without it they would just beat up protesters and not even have to look incompetent, unable to control the situation and forced to pay reparations
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