/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2939485
>LITERALLY
No.
The British mandate for Palestine was established before Hitler was even politically active. The Havaara Agreement was a partnership between the Nazis and Zionists, and independence was achieved in 1948, with the support of Stalin. Stalin had a greater hand in it.

>>2939495
>>2939485
you know, if someone had told me 10-15 years ago that online neo-nazis and communists would be accusing one another of being the bigger zionists, and trying to pin the historical origin of Israel on one another, I would not have believed you, and yet here we are, and in hindsight it seems obvious. I will contribute this only: Zionism is an ethnonationalist ideology, and so has more in common with Nazism, only the "master race" of Zionism are the "chosen people" of the Hebrew Bible rather than the "Aryans" of Proto-Indo-European vintage. If I could wish anything for the present generation, it would be to stop being possessed by the ghosts of WW2, including Hitler and Stalin. Herzl himself, the founding father of Zionism, in any case saw Zionism as European Colonialism with Jewish Characteristics, in his own life time, and he sought out alliances and funding on that basis.

>>2939509
Why did Stalin support an erhnostate?
The mystery is revealed when you see that he already made pacts with Hitler lol. Birds of a feather.

>>2939495
2 questions:

1. Could the post WW2 soviet union have mounted a meaningful offensive against Israel's independence
   
2. Why does Stalin's support in 1948 outweigh Hitler's deportation of 60,000 Jewish settlers to Palestine in 1933, followed by several other waves of German-Jewish settlers continuing after 1933, and all the way beyond 1938, even against the advice of Hitler's own confidants.

>>2939513
I have no issue with you condemning Stalin for the Molotov Ribbentrop pact as long as you acknowledge his actual strategic motivations for doing so, as well as the fact that he was the last in a long line of nations to make such compromises. If you acknoweldge both these things, then we agree on the historical record, but if you simply wish to reduce this entire episode to "Hitler and Stalin made a pact" I'm afraid I have to regard that as omitting several nuggets of context with high importance. Especially taking into consideration that the Soviet Union eventually fought the Third Reich harder than everyone else, and sacrificed more people than anyone else, and this was an anticipated event even before the "pact".

>>2939518
Soviet Union only fought the Reich AFTER Hitler began his invasion against them. Stalin was happy to see a Nazi-occupied West.
>strategy
Yes, the strategy of imperial expansion into Eastern Europe. He got what he wanted by the end of the war.

>>2939527
it is true that the USSR only fought the reich after hitler invaded. his mistake lied in thinking he could postpone the nazi invasion by trying to appease them, as had many other nations. For some reason bourgeois historians only care that stalin did it and always omit the context that he was the last in a long line of leaders to appease hitler. I do not deny that he appeased hitler, and I do not deny that this proved to be a mistake. what i find frustrating is that people omit the context of why he did this: namely to buy time by moving the eventual front line west, while moving factories east out of the range of the luftwaffe. this is evident. even the US state department does not contradict the USSR leadership's motivations in this respect. If you acknowledge that it was a strategic failure and not an ideological agreement with nazism, then i have no issue with you. You have to remember that despite the failures of the USSR leadership, millions of ordinary soviet workers sacrificed themselves in the fight against nazism.

>>2939527
>Yes, the strategy of imperial expansion into Eastern Europe. He got what he wanted by the end of the war.

i find it funny how some people fault stalin for "socialism in one country" and at the same time fault stalin for "social imperialism"

is socialism supposed to spread or not?

>>2939518
>acknowledge the ethnostate behaved like other ethnostates
… seems rather redundant, no? there's a reason stalin is the only soviet figure of russian chauvinism's heroic canon, he fits right in, down to the permanent victimhood shared with nazis, zionists (and their felow americans), etc., in everything being everyone's fault but their own

>>2939539
I think it is telling that you ignored all of this:
>I have no issue with you condemning Stalin for the Molotov Ribbentrop pact as long as you acknowledge his actual strategic motivations for doing so, as well as the fact that he was the last in a long line of nations to make such compromises. If you acknoweldge both these things, then we agree on the historical record, but if you simply wish to reduce this entire episode to "Hitler and Stalin made a pact" I'm afraid I have to regard that as omitting several nuggets of context with high importance.

just to repeat yourself. I think you are trolling and that anon is being too patient with you. you also didn't even quote him and just made up some greentext. Can you put some effort in or fuck off?

>>2939539
Are you suggesting the USSR was an ethnostate?

>>2939485
The USSR did far more to create Shitrael than Germany, Britain, or even the USA.

>>2939592
The warsaw pact guns that got in the hands of Hanagagh, lehi, and the stern gang weren’t even from the Soviet Union, they were from Czechoslovakia

Stalin continued the Russian Empire's russofication program and ethnic cleansing of various minorities. Of course the current day Russian fascists are going to look up to him favorably.

>>2939622
>lehi
i meant Irgun

>>2939592
>more than Britain
anon that's just bait

>>2939624
this bro right here isn't even responding to anyone in particular, he's just dropping new bait and ignoring all counter args from previous replies

>>2930698
uygha what garbage sites do you browse that make you think that's remotely normal?
t. moderates multiple imageboards and checks into others - none have this issue

>>2930947
>It's Everyone Else's Fault We Didn't Win!
go make a manga about it, nerd. The rest of us have a world to win.

>>2930954
Which retard mod is handing out bans over basic statements like this? Sober up before you log in. And if you were sober, maybe this responsibility isn't for you.

Failing to enforce the "don't abuse ban messages as an argument" rule was a huge mistake.

^ and if there's more to it - communicate that shit to the userbase.

>>2940029
wrong thread juchefriend? you usually post this stuff in usapol…

>>2940031
>hitler show up to job site
>refuse to show solidarity by joining union
>debatebros about it for 2 weeks, probably being insufferable in ways he fails to relate in his autobiographical isekai
>get threatened with beatings for being a scab, not actually beat up, as you allege
>walks off job site instead of just joining the fucking union

in America big bill haywood would have tarred and feathered him in the same era. he got off easy.

>>2940040
very cool now go after right wingers

>>2940036
And here he'd be locked in a shed until he signed the membership papers. And I think that's based.
What's your point?

It's one thing to say it's based, or appeal to the past, but it's also important to analyze the tactical effectiveness and see how that applies in different situations.

>>2940043
>y-you're a rightwinger because i said so!!!
no i mean go after pol. go after the government. go after the actual ruling class. the mods here are probably compromised gross weirdos but who cares about them. you put way too much energy into unimportant shit. find someone with power. not one of these pic related losers

>>2940054
anon seemed to be whining about him being alienated based on the original context, not saying it was a good thing

>>2940057
[I realized I'd misread some posts as if they were talking generally instead of this insufferable debatebro Hitler's situation. So I've deleted my mini-essay response about how atrociously horrible one of my local socialist parties is at alienating people who are already prospective socialists].

>>2933852
now we postin 24 glorious minuten

>>2939537
>the only way to spread socialism is conquest, not revolution.
>>2939532
I don't believe Stalin was ideologically opposed to Hitler, only politically. Stalin was not an "anti-fascist" as we understand it today. Just so we come to terms with things, the Allies were not ideologically opposed to Hitler either, they just didn't want to be invaded. People dress up WW2 like its the Avengers vs Thanos; some ideological war – it wasn't.

>>2939822
No it's just a fact.

>>2940082
I always think this stuff must have been intentional, lmao. The british turned hanging in to an art, yet they get to germany and suddenly they all get botched.

>>2940101
No doubt at all. States devised standards and everything for hangings. If the goal was dignity and humane treatment, they wouldn't be left to hang for minutes every time an accident happens.
I've met a $$$prison guard$$$ and they confirmed what everyone already knows - they all have their own sense of justice and it just takes a few minutes longer for child-abuser scum to receive assistance.

>>2940103
yep, idk about america but the UK at this time was doing the long-drop method. As i understand it, actual strangulation was very rare, almost always they could kill with a neck break.

>>2939485
>>2939495
> The Havaara Agreement was a partnership between
>>2939509
>you know, if someone had told me 10-15 years ago that online neo-nazis and communists would be accusing one another of being the bigger zionists, and trying to pin the historical origin of Israel on one another, I would not have believed you, and yet here we are, and in hindsight it seems obvious.

You totally and compleatly misunderstand my argument. My point is that for a jew hating white supremacist to oppose Israel(Like a neo-nazi) is PURE INSANITY!

I think the video can explain.
>being the bigger zionists
From a white supremacist ethnostate position explain why being a zionist is wrong. I wait.

And this is the difference between the Original Nazis and Neo-nazis. neo-nazis are so crazy and insane that it is unreal.
Yes I know these are the talking points they obsess over
<Israel bad
<Jews bad

However they are so deranged and their point make literally no sense whatsoever. If you question any of this and their insane self contradictions you get either the most castrated cope or pure rage in return.

The video explains it the best. If you want to get rid of the jews in your country why not let them go away? Like serious question why not expel or transfer all the jews to Israel a nation obsessed over creating a homeland to all jews????? Like why not?

<Israel bad
Explain why.
<Giving money to Israel bad
Explain why.

There are literally no answers to this because if you want to get rid of the jews the existence of a jewish ethnostate is a very good thing for you. And there literally is no argument against not giving money to Israel since this ensures the continued existence of what basically is your expulsion zone for the jews however the existence of Israel ensures the continued death of jews and arabs who will kill one another. From a white supremacist standpoint explain why spending money to expel jews and kill jews and arabs is a bad thing?

There are no answers to this because neo-nazi ideology is fucken INSANE!
The only objection to this is to say that white supremacy/neo-nazis only exist to protect jews or/and protect arabs a very comical conclusion.

And the Hitler thing is to show the obvious, for the ORIGINAL Nazis it was obvious that this is the simplest solution to expelling the jews and that the god of neo-nazis Adolf Hitler himself negotiated with a literal jewish zionist organization to arrange this.

If Hitler was alive today or neo-nazis existed in Hitlers Germany they would immediately jump up and reject Hitler calling him Zio-dolf hitler and everything else. Daily reminder that nazis literally damage controlled and did forgive trump everything except the moment he did go to the jews then they rejected him and called him zio-don.

There is a very good reason Hitler purged all the lunatics on the far right and the SA and neo-nazis would be the first ones to be killed by their god Hitler.

This is because neo-nazi ideology is literally insanity. It is unreal how nothing in it makes sense and neo-nazis do not even have a plan outside of slogans and subjects they repeat on the internet.

Apparently(no neo-nazi has confirmed this they break down into cope before that) this is the neo-nazi plan to create a ethnostate

1)Be racist online to the max and hate on jews
2)Make everyone love Hitler and white supremacy
3)Abolish the state of Israel
4) Convince everyone the holocaust did not happen
5) Expel all the jews
And here you ask the question expel the jews where? Since Israel does not exist…. To France? Germany? China?

And this ends all conversations however in their cope they sometimes suggest
6) Exterminate the jews, do the holocaust

Brilliant! Like their perfect plan is to convince everyone that the holocaust did not happen(for unknown reasons) and then exterminate all the jews. Or was it that their perfect and genius god Hitler never did come to the brilliant idea to exterminate the jews?

Neo-nazis are different to the original nazis on the subject of the holocaust, you think neo-nazis would celebrate the holocaust and admit to it however nope for some reason they are obsessed over holocaust denial and can not even answer what to do with the jews or simply indicate that they will do a jew extermination.

This ideology is insane and comical and neo-nazis would be the first to be shot dead by the gestapo or SS if Hitler was in power.

>>2940682
>jews bad
you actually have no argument against this which is why you're deflecting

>>2940699
humans in general bad. what else you wanna talk about

>>2931211
O algo

>>2940095
>Stalin was not an "anti-fascist" as we understand it today.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/09/20.htm

The earliest clearly documented major statement by Joseph Stalin specifically defining fascism appears in his article “Concerning the International Situation,” published on September 20, 1924, in the Soviet journal Bolshevik, No. 11.

In the article, Stalin wrote:

<Firstly, it is not true that fascism is only the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. Fascism is not only a military-technical category. Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy. There is just as little ground for thinking that Social-Democracy can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. These organisations do not negate, but supplement each other. They are not antipodes, they are twins. Fascism is an informal political bloc of these two chief organisations; a bloc, which arose in the circumstances of the post-war crisis of imperialism, and which is intended for combating the proletarian revolution. The bourgeoisie cannot retain power without such a bloc. It would therefore be a mistake to think that “pacifism” signifies the liquidation of fascism. In the present situation, “pacifism” is the strengthening of fascism with its moderate, Social-Democratic wing pushed into the forefront.

Does this sound like someone who is not against fascism?

>>2942518
jeff's typing is baffling

>>2942520
He types like every rich fuck with an iphone and autocorrect turned off.

>>2942554
>>2942520
Obviously, he doesn't write like that. It's just some weird file editing. You can find links to other sites with emails, maybe even identical ones, and they'll be written normally.

>>2942557
>Obviously, he doesn't write like that
holy cope

>>2942557
>retarded zoomers can't read email chains
Epsteins messages were:
>no
>ill be there 20 -30

>>2942577
nobody was confused by email chains, just baffled by his typos

>>2930992
yeah by shitting your pants in a crowded room

>>2930817
Which is exactly what 4/pol/ does

>>2930679
Lets examine this OP because Hitlers reasons are silly however no one picked up on it in this thread.

>> religion, as a means of stupefying the people marked for exploitation
Here is a 100% serious question for Hitler who according to this book was starving and poor if god is real why did he not feed Hitler?

This is a 100% serious question despite how hardcore it sounds(because it strikes at the hart of the god delusion). In the old testament god did answer the prayer of the [I have no idea how Hitler reacts if I say jews or what he thinks the people of the old testament are] lets say gods chosen people.

Exodus 16
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2016&version=NIV

Why did god not do that for Hitler? Or anyone(in recorded history especially modern times)?

This is a 100% serious question. And it debunks religion and god hard!

What is the religionists response here? I can give you the Hitler response
>hOw DaRe YoU iNsULt ReLiGiOn!

Brilliant behavior, someone tries to free you from a lie and you result to your indoctrinated programming of going
>hOw DaRe YoU iNsULt glorious leader!

Because this is what all of it is HOW DARE YOU! However this is a real question if god is real and god answers prayers(you must reject the book of exodus and other parts of the bible for this) then why did god not feed Hitler? Why struggle? Why be hungry? Simply ask god to feed you! Stupid!

Because if god was real our world would look totally different!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbk-3l_EthA

And while insulting religion or god is on the same level as insulting harry potter(or other fictional characters venerated by fandoms) it exposes a fundamental and crippling in the mind of various nationalists like Hitler they are unable to analyze or think about the cultural bullshit they where born into or indoctrinated into.

Lets move on.

>> the nation, as an invention of the
Bzzzz and this is something Hitler can not defend! Like this is literally impossible while neo-nazis today are rejecting nationalism and patriotism in the 1960s it resulted in hilarious scenarios like the american nazi party demanding everyone go and die in wars(draft, Vietnam war) for the jews and in the name of race mixing while rejecting jews and race mixing at the same time. This is the stupid argument Hitler makes.


>> the nation, as an invention of the
Same as god if the nation is so great then why did it not feed Hitler? If his nation is so great then why is Hitler starving and in poverty now? And this is pre World War 1 everyone! This exposes the nationalist/patriot idiocy of going
<Oh I love my nation however it is getting worse and bad here
Then why the fuck should this nation not help you? I mean it writes the laws and the policies and Hitler is poor and in shit condition. IF the nation is so great why did it not outlaw trade unions or make criticizing the nation a crime? Or something? And why is Hitler starving and poor? If his nation is so great?!

100% serious questions!!!!

>>the Fatherland
??? There is a difference between a fatherland and the nation??? Whatever it is in Hitlers mind see same question above! Why are there no nation/fatherland policies that actually help people or Hitler?


100% serious questions!!!!

Because all this shit is literally exactly like fandoms or his waifu. He got angry that someone insulted sonic while he likes sonic, started arguments over this and got expelled out of work. Wow looks like his love for sonic just made the poor man even more poor!

However on some level even the most deranged sonic fanboy realizes that all of it is fictional shit! All of it is fake and you are ruining your life by arguing with people who insulted sonic.

And all he needed to do was shut up join the union get payed and venerate his sonic shrine at home or something and have money. This looks like a 100% Hitler being the problem here! If you can not shut the fuck up about your love for sonic or get into arguments over people who say all the time that sonic is stupid at work then this is a YOU problem.

I mean compering nationalism/patriotism to sonic is stupid because sonic is far more important then a nation. No seriously sonic fans watch the cartoons of sonic and relax this way or something I presume or play the games to have fun. What exactly does the nation/fatherland give Hitler? Does he paint himself in the national colors and jerk himself off to the German flag or something? What did this nation even do for him? Like what is the pleasure he is getting from it? My little pony fans can get enjoyment form watching the cartoons so someone getting angry that others insult a MLP character they like is something you can understand. What does the nation do?

You can argue that religion(how often did Hitler go to church?) provides some benefit like sonic of MLP because the people go to their religion club and spend 1h doing their religious rituals who I presume give them some pleasure or something. However he can shut up join a union and have a job while going to his MLP club to sing the MLP songs on his own time.

The fuck did the nation/fatherland do for Hitler???

>>as a means of stupefying the people marked for exploitation
Are they not right? I mean here is Hitler spergin over people insulting sonic/MLP instead of unionizing and demanding better pay. Is this not the problem? Did he not bitch that people are exploited by the city and have little money?????

PS: Fun interpretation! There is a solution to all these questions however most religionists will not go for it and 99% of all nationalists will never admit it.

God is not giving you food and you are in a shit situation because god rejected you and is punishing you! IT IS ON YOU TO BEG GOD FOR FORGIVENESS!

The nation works perfectly and the problem is you Hitler and the nation is right in punishing you for you being wrong!

>>2947437
incredibly giga post