I enjoyed reading Mein Kampf to laugh at Hitler's chuddery:
>My knowledge of the trade-union organization at that time was zero. I could have proved neither its usefulness nor its uselessness. As I was told I must join, I refused. I gave as my grounds that I did not understand the situation, but would not be forced to do anything whatever. Perhaps the former was the reason why they did not throw me out at once. They may have hoped they could convert me or wear me down within a few days. In any case they were deeply mistaken. But within a fortnight I had reached the end of my ability, even if I had wanted to go on. In that fortnight I came to know my surroundings better, so that no power in the world could have forced me to join an organization whose members I had seen in such an unfavorable light. The first few days I was annoyed. At noon some of the men went to near-by public-houses, while others stayed on the lot, and there consumed a (usually quite pitiful) lunch. These were the married men, whose wives brought them their midday soup in miserable dishes. Toward the end of the week their number kept growing; why, I understood later. Then they would talk politics. I would drink my bottle of milk and eat my piece of bread somewhere aside, and would cautiously study my new surroundings or ponder my wretched lot. But still I heard more than enough; and it often seemed to me that people sidled up to me deliberately, perhaps with the intention of forcing me to make my attitude clear. In any case, what I heard in this fashion was calculated to irritate me to the extreme. They were against everything: the nation, as an invention of the “capitalistic” (how often had I to hear that word!) classes; the Fatherland, as a tool of the bourgeoisie to exploit the workers; the authority of law, as a means to oppress the proletariat; the schools, as an institution to (rain up a body of slaves, and of slave-owners as well; religion, as a means of stupefying the people marked for exploitation; morals, as a symbol of stupid, sheep-like patience; and so on. There was simply nothing which they did not drag in the muck of a fearful baseness. At first I tried to maintain silence. But finally I could do so no longer. I began to express my attitude, and began to contradict. Then I realized that this was quite useless until I knew something definite about the points under dispute, so I began to go to the sources from which they drew their supposed wisdom. Book after book, pamphlet after pamphlet had its turn. On the building lot there were now often heated arguments. I went on struggling, growing day by day better informed than my adversaries were, until one day the means was used which most easily vanquishes reason: terrorism, violence. Some of the spokesmen of the opposition forced me either to leave the job at once or to fly off the scaffolding on my head. As I was alone, and resistance seemed hopeless, I preferred to follow the former advice, richer by one experience. I left, filled with disgust, but at the same time so agitated that it would have been quite impossible for me to turn my back on the whole affair. No; after the flaming up of the first indignation, my stiff neck once more got the upper hand. I was absolutely determined to find another construction job just the same. My decision was strengthened by the privation which closed me in its heartless embrace a few weeks later, after I had eaten up what little wages I had saved. Now I had to, whether or no. And the game began all over again, only to end as it had before. I struggled with myself: were these human beings, worthy of belonging to a great people ? It was a painful question. If the answer were yes, the struggle for a national body was really not worth the effort and sacrifice which the best individuals must make; but if the answer were no, our people was poor indeed in human beings.
TL;DR Hitler is impoverished in Vienna, gets a job, refuses to join the union because "i don't know nuffin bout dat shit and u cant make me do nuffin", workers try to educate him, he gets annoyed with them for not being nationalist enough and being anti capitalist, starts to debatebro ben shapiro style, they threaten to beat his nerd ass, he leaves pissed off and decides they're all subhumans. This is hilarious to me because all the neo nazi revisionists try to make hitler out to be more anti capitalist than the "judeobolshevik" marxists.
/leftychud/ is increasingly anti-union, nationalist, etc. so they will probably be guilty of the same mindset as Hitler in this anecdote and either ignore the thread out of a sense of guilt at looking in the mirror, or reply in defense of Hitler, attacking unions, but trying to give it a "Marxist" or "Bordigist" makeover.
>>2930685Let's be for real, Hitler probably read more than 99% of the fags that browse this site. Reading for most retards nowadays consists of watching TikToks and Instagram reels.
>>2930684this site was a failed experiment. i think it is obvious at this point that all english-speaking online communities are doomed to devolve into white nationalist anarcho-capitalist echo chambers. i don't know why it always ends this way, but it does and no amount of moderation or branding can prevent it.
>>2930684Unions are for reformist faggots. Hitler, the great and authentic revolutionary, is right.
The reason Hitler sucked was that he was an unironic spook.
>>2930700see this is how it starts, it's how it started with 4chan, at first it's just ironic edgelord comments, then it becomes normalized and the irony poisoning sets in communitywide, then suddenly the people who actually seriously believe this kind of nonsense feel like they have found their new home and they come swarming in like flies to a pile of shit, because to the flies if it looks like shit and tastes like shit then it's good enough for them. the fact that the site is called "leftypol" only makes it better, a funny ironic name for a toxic far-right echo chamber.
>>2930705>>2930698>>2930684This is the type of posting that subtly enables that sort of degeneration. Agent provocateur type shit.
>>2930700The only thing hitler made clear in OP's exerpt was how much of a cucked sperg he was. Spook is right, spooked to the fucking gills and any authenticity he had was being authentically brain dead.
>>2930705Is it really that much worse than most of the previous 12 years?
>>2930705Imo I kinda blame the rules, have you actually read them? Being a lib or a far right cuck is actually allowed so long as you act polite enough. The way I see it leftypol should be a dictatorship with a written dogma document and with rules against wrongthink.
>>2930705Stop whining, faggot.
>>2930706>The only thing hitler made clear in OP's exerpt was how much of a cucked sperg he was.Meh. He's unintentionally correct in a very, very narrow way. He witnessed radlib activsts in real-time, and rightfully thought they were retarded (but for the wrong reasons).
>>2930679Anyways, Hitler writes against both capitalism and Marxism in Mein Kampf because he treats them both as Jewish inventions. I should note though that Hitler distinguishes between financial capital, which he considers Jewish, and industrial capital, which he considers beneficial to the nation. The distinction is rather silly, given pretty much everything can be financialized under capitalism, but whatever.
<Previously I didn't clearly recognize the difference between capital that is purely the product of creative labor, and capital that is exclusively the result of financial speculation. Here I needed an inspiration to set my mind thinking in this direction; but that impulse had not appeared.<The necessary inspiration now came from one of the men who lectured in the course I mentioned earlier. This was Gottfried Feder.<For the first time in my life, I heard a discussion of the principles of international stock exchange capital and loan capital.<After hearing Feder's first lecture, the idea immediately came into my head that I had now found one of the most essential prerequisites for the founding of a new party.<To my mind, Peder's merit lay in the ruthlessly brutal way in which he described the double character of capital engaged in stock-exchange and loan transaction, exposing the fact that this capital is always dependent on the payment of interest. In fundamental questions, his statements were so full of common sense that his critics didn't deny their theoretical soundness, but only whether it would be possible to put these ideas into practice. To me this seemed the strongest point in Peder's teaching, though others considered it a weakness.
<When I heard Gottfried Feder's first lecture on 'breaking interest slavery, ' I understood immediately that here was a truth of transcendental importance for the future of the German people. The absolute separation of stock exchange capital from the national economy would make it possible to oppose the internationalization of the German economy without at the same time attacking capital per se. Doing so would jeopardize the foundations of our national independence. I clearly saw what was developing in Germany, and I realized then that the hardest battle we would have to fight would not be against the enemy nations, but against international capital. In Feder's speech I found an effective rallying-cry for our corning struggle.<Here, again, later events proved how correct our impression was. The fools among our bourgeois politicians don't laugh at us now. Even they now see-insofar as they are not deliberate liars-that international stock. exchange capital was not only the chief instigator for the war, but that now when the fighting has ended, it turns the peace into a hell<The struggle against international finance capital and loan-capital has become one of the most important points in the program of the German nation's fight for economic independence and freedom.<Regarding the objections raised by so-called practical people, the following answer must suffice : All fears concerning the terrible economic consequences that would follow the abolition of interest-capital slavery are superfluous. In the first place, the economic principles followed thus far have proven nearly fatal to the interests of the German people.<Thus it was that Gottfried Feder's conclusions caused me to make a fundamental study of a question with which I had previously not been very familiar.<I began to study again, and thus it was that I came to truly understand the substance and purpose of the life-work of the Jew Karl Marx. His Capital became intelligible to me now for the first time. I now exactly understood the Social Democrats' fight against national economics-a fight that was to prepare the ground for the hegemony of a true international and stock exchange capital.What's ironic is that when Hitler took power, he basically sidelined Feder on behalf of industrial capital and Hjalmar Schacht, who by all means was a member of the "international capital" clique Hitler condems in Mein Kampf.
(You do not under any circumstances gotta hand it to Hitler) >>2930706>This is the type of posting that subtly enables that sort of degeneration. Agent provocateur type shit.deny, argue, reverse victim and offender
>>2930707>Is it really that much worse than most of the previous 12 years?yes it is. political leaders and billionaires behaving like authoritarian nihilists who despise humanity is par for the course, but when ordinary common people start doing it something is wrong. we're supposed to be better than that, we're supposed to be authentic and human and not be consumed into delusional fantasy worlds or phony affected edgelord personas, we're supposed to be real. we all had our fun being annoying internet teenagers a long time ago but eventually it's time to grow up and face reality, otherwise we'll just become like our boomer parents on facebook.
>>2930679Quite interesting that one.
>In that FORTNIGHT I came to know my SURroundings better>my stiff NECK once more got the upper hand>I was absolutely determined to find another CONSTRUCTION job just the sameHitler is icky blue Odysseus. Sneedius even. Man of hawk tuah.
hitler will never be a chad like Stalin
>>2930696the retard didn't even write his own book
>>2930729Thank you. This shit is getting so goddamn boring
>>2930713>Hitler distinguishes between financial capital, which he considers Jewish, and industrial capital, which he considers beneficial to the nationHoly shit, Hitler read Michael Hudson?
>>2930763Michael Hudson read Hitler…
>>2930700>so butthurt about the founder of the italian communist party that she started larping as a leftgod hitleriteKWAB
>>2930729Agreed, shit's lame. Problem is probably that this place has a lot of not so ordinary and not very common people. Not to mention there's always a new fresh load of annoying internet teenagers to shit things up.
It doesn't help this board used to be hosted on an absolute cesspit called 8chan, with lovely neighbours like mass shooters and pedophiles.
>>2930774>this place has a lot of not so ordinary and not very common peopledon't be fooled by their act, they're as common as fucking american cheese
>>2930775Growing up online is a failed social experiment that’s led to two emotionally stunted generations
has anyone read hitlers second book? the one where he says america is a bigger threat than the ussr
>>2930713>Hitler distinguishes between financial capital, which he considers Jewish, and industrial capital, which he considers beneficial to the nation. But industrial capital leads to finance capital. You outsource your productive forces to less "developed" regions where the workers are more easily exploited, less unionized, less labor-aristocratic, etc. This means that your imperial core is left deindustrialized, so you financialize everything back home, put everyone into service sector jobs, and beef up your military to protect your industrial interests abroad. We see this with the USA. Had the nazis won WW2 they would have taken similar liberties with the periphery, since they were not shy about invading and enslaving foreign peoples.
>>2930761A lot of books are written by spoken dictation with the help of transcribers.
>>2930713>He's unintentionally correct in a very, very narrow way. He witnessed radlib activsts in real-time, and rightfully thought they were retarded (but for the wrong reasons).In the anecdote from the OP there is nothing "radlib" he's just mad at working class dudes in construction jobs who want him to join a union. He's mad that they talk about capitalism, about the bourgeoisie, about the proletariat. He is mad at them for not being nationalist, and he's mad at them for seeing nationalism as a tool to control the proletariat. None of this is "radlib" very sussy that you would see any of this as "radlib"
>>2930806People on this website have liberal derangement syndrome
>>2930700>>2930713Kill yourselves as soon as possible
>>2930805which has exactly nothing to do with the discussion. thanks, play again. idiot.
>>2930804Why did you truncate what I said?
<The distinction is rather silly, given pretty much everything can be financialized under capitalism, but whatever.>>2930806I don't care why he hated them. They deserve to be hated.
>>2930808No.
>>2930810>Why did you truncate what I said?Apologies, I didn't intend it as a counterargument. I did read the following sentence, I just wanted to respond to the "idea" at length even if it wasn't your sincere opinion.
>>2930809It means he wrote the book. Trotsky, Stalin, and Mao all heavily used transcribers too.
>>2930810>I don't care why he hated them. They deserve to be hated.OK, so they weren't radlib as you contended, they were class conscious workers around the turn of the 20th century. Not exactly the pinnacle of what people mean when they say "radlib" on here.
>>2930813If they were pro-union then they were radlibs.
>>2930813>they were class conscious workers around the turn of the 20th century. Class consciousness and organizing is literally liberalism.
>>2930814And hitler totally wasnt a capitalist liberal.
>>2930713>everything I don't like is jewish.Why couldn't he just figure out that the problem is capitalism and not the capitalist Jews? He doesn't even properly criticize ideologies and just calls them Jewish. This guy is genuinely a lot more retarded than I thought he'd be.
>>2930814The Marxistposition has always been that unionizing isn't going far enough, not that it's actively harmful.
Marx:
<Thirdly. Trade Unions work well as centers of resistance against the encroachments of capital. They fail partially from an injudicious use of their power. They fail generally from limiting themselves to a guerilla war against the effects of the existing system, instead of simultaneously trying to change it, instead of using their organized forces as a lever for the final emancipation of the working class that is to say the ultimate abolition of the wages system.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm#c14 >>2930816>Class consciousness and organizing is literally liberalism. OK if you think that's the case why are you using "radlib" as an insult.
>>2930817>Why couldn't he just figure out that the problem is capitalism and not the capitalist Jews? He doesn't even properly criticize ideologies and just calls them Jewish. This guy is genuinely a lot more retarded than I thought he'd be.This is the power of idpol. Instead of "the problem is capitalism", it becomes "the problem is [insert enemy identity group] and the particular form of capitalism that [insert enemy identity group] does, therefore we need to do [insert friendly identity group] capitalism."
>>2930817>Why couldn't he just figure out that the problem is capitalism and not the capitalist Jews?Hitler was fine with capitalism. He wanted to replace jewish bourgeoisie with german bourgeoisie thinking this would solve the problem of conflicting material interests.
>And, indeed, for any eye accustomed to European forms of economy, it was most compelling to see the differences that became apparent when one entered into Soviet territory. Even from an aircraft one observed the sudden change in the cultivation of the land. The many small fields that are characteristic for the European farmer disappeared and gave place to a wide-spaced but still rational division of land. The fertile plains of the Ukraine spread out in gigantic rectangles impossible to overlook, ordered and impeccably cultivated like a carpet of order and diligence, which could hardly be more impressively conceived. It was manifest that here something had been achieved and developed economically, with which the forms of western economies could not compete in the long run. This impression is confirmed by the detailed reports of agrarian experts. The same impression is repeated when inspecting even the destroyed industrial plants. Even from their ruins one could see that they had been equipped in the most modern fashion and had disposed a gigantic production capacity.
>One has to have unqualified respect for Stalin. In his way, the guy is quite a genius! His ideals such as Genghis Khan and so forth he knows very well, and his economic planning is so all-encompassing that it is only exceeded by our own Four-Year Plan. I have no doubts whatsoever that there have been no unemployed in the USSR, as opposed to capitalist countries such as the USA. (Picker 1983, 452)
hitler was the OG stalin glazer
>>2930818lol he ran out of cope after that
>>2930812i give up. you are stupid.
>>2930824Sorry bro, I know you posted this to make Stalin look bad but if Hitler and even Churchill had some respect towards the pipe smoker then it simply means they couldnt deny the truth™
>>2930817>Why couldn't he just figure out that the problem is capitalism and not the capitalist Jewshitler perfectly understood capitalist contradictions and its inherent weaknesses, it wasn't just financial capital he was struggling against
>The present world commodity market is not unlimited. The number of industrially active nations has steadily increased. Almost all European nations suffer from an inadequate and unsatisfactory relation between soil and population. Hence they are dependent on world export. In recent years the American Union has turned to export, as has also Japan in the East. Thus a struggle automatically begins for the limited markets, which becomes tougher the more numerous the industrial nations become and, conversely, the more the markets shrink.
>For while on the one hand the number of nations struggling for world markets increases, the commodity market itself slowly diminishes, partly in consequence of a process of self industrialization on their own power, partly through a system of branch enterprises which are more and more coming into being in such countries out of sheer capitalist interest.
>For we should bear the following in mind: the German people, for example, has a lively interest in building ships for China in German dockyards because thereby a certain number of men of our nationality get a chance to feed themselves which they would not have on our own soil, which is no longer sufficient.
>But the German people has no interest, say, in a German financial group or even a German factory opening a so-called branch dockyard in Shanghai which builds ships for China with Chinese workers and foreign steel, even if the corporation earns a definite profit in the form of interest or dividend.
>On the contrary the result of this will be only that a German financial group earns so and so many million, but as a result of the orders lost a multiple of this amount is withdrawn from the German national economy
<The more pure capitalist interests begin to determine the present economy, the more the general viewpoints of the financial world and the stock exchange achieve a decisive influence here, the more will this system of branch establishments reach out and thus artificially carry out the industrialization of former commodity markets and especially curtail the export possibilities of the European mother countries.
<The so-called peaceful economic conquest of the world could take place only if the earth consisted of purely agrarian nations and but one industrially active and commercial natio >>2930832
>anon alleges organizing is radlib
<is proven wrong
>anon now allages organizing is a "fundamental building block of reaction"
all of this in a conversation where the context puts you in defense of hitler btw.
>>2930844>hitler perfectly understood capitalist contradictions and its inherent weaknessesFunny joke. Meanwhile the OP excerpt demonstrates Hitler seething at workers and regarding them as subhuman for subordinating his precious "aryan nation" to the class struggle.
>>2930848>this is just vulgar bourgeois-nationalistic protectionism exactly and you can see the exact same rhetoric creeping into the right wing European consciousness, especially hitlers comments about immigration
>>2930848>>2930851also the soil fertility issue Hitler brings up in that excerpt has clear ecological solutions. I think what vexes me the most is the phrase "a certain number of men of our nationality get a chance to feed themselves"
a chance to feed themselves? an opportunity to get exploited by the correct nationality?
>>2930684a prediction which came true so fast that it flabbers one's gast and boggles one's mind.
>>2930853>also the soil fertility issue Hitler brings up in that excerpt has clear ecological solutions. the thing you have to keep in mind is the 1930s were permeated with the dumb idea that human population growth would eventually outpace whatever productivity gains were made in agriculture, with land being the most important bottleneck he concluded lebensraum was the only option for survival to compete with the 'healthy' land-to-population ratios that america and the ussr had at the time. Obviously in 2026 we kinda have the opposite problem with negative birthrates even in places like india
>>2930859>the 1930s were permeated with the dumb idea that human population growth would eventually outpace whatever productivity gains were made in agriculturedoesn't that just come from Malthus originally? In any case if there truly is a limit to population growth on Earth (finite environment with finite resources) the solution is to plan around that, instead of pretend you can grow your "herrenvolk" infinitely as long as you do enough lebensraum and genocide.
>Obviously in 2026 we kinda have the opposite problem with negative birthrates even in places like indiaand the chuds meanwhile freak out about immigration from the few places that still have more than 3 births per woman, and think the solution is to deport immigrants and ban birth control, abortion, contraception, sex education… but you aren't going to get women to go back to their semi-feudal status as baby factories on a farm.
>>2930685it's especially funny because he says this all happened in two weeks. He went from having zero knowledge of class struggle, rejecting joining the union, to listening to conversations at pubs, to asking them for sources, to reading those sources, to beating them in debates, to getting kicked out of his job for wining debates. All in 14 days he insists this happened. "A fortnight."
>>2930866And everyone clapped btw
>>2930807People on this website have a whole lot of of different derangement syndromes towards anyone who isn't an ultra-leninist edgelord whose definition of communism amounts to "Kill billions and throw the survivors into volcel work camps because communism is when you're as miserable as I am"
Look, the dissenting anon in this thread is right. This place is a failed experiment because imageboards are a failed experiment. Anonymity is a good thing but taking it to such an extreme means moderation is meaningless in an era of VPN spam and Tor.
Eventually, the emotionally stunted freaks and morons shout down everyone else. Take what happens in /usapol/: incels periodically spam the thread with "billions must die" rhetoric, weird e-drama beefs, vulgar third-worldism and terminally online culture-war ranting.
The rationale is usually the same: "We are le ebin infowarrior bullying the unclean into suicide!" when it's obvious that people are just leaving the site for places with better moderation. Congratulations schizos, you killed your own site!
>>2930854The sad reality is that a nonzero amount of young anglophone communists aren't really interested in a better alternative to capitalism, they're just the same alienated "fuck normies" kids you get with every generation
>>2930882<golden billionoid once again believes he represents the entire human population Must be a day that ends in Y
>>2930887>people in the developing and third world are emotionally stunted internet addicts like meI can assure you that your average Chinese, Uzbek, or Kenyan would find you just as weird and repulsive as anyone else
>>2930882>it's obvious that people are just leaving the site for places with better moderationLike where tho
>>2930893lemmy is where I go when people here are too retarded and it starts pissing me off
>>2930924I mean when it’s Hitler, it is pretty funny
>>2930925Because you're a liberal
>>2930928Its kinda tiresome to read rightoids accusing you of liberalism. Look in the mirror.
>>2930938>everyone i don't like is rightoidNo, retard. You're a liberal faggot for demanding ideological purity
This type of retarded shit is exactly why the Freikorps pushed the German communists' shit in
>>2930940 (me)
And how the Nazis took power in the first place. They had more material support from the people, whereas communists only appealed to urban workers because they alienated most of the conservative peasantry
>>2930942hitler fucked over the peasantoids hard so whatever they got what they deserved and all the dumbass freikorps who wanted another war got BTFO hard as well. they were all treatlerites who deserved to die anyways. no country that refuses to choose communism deserves to exist.
>>2930924but he didn't get fired, the workers threatened to beat his ass for not joining the union and he walked away. Hitler was scabbing out of a sense of interclass loyalty to muh aryan boss and ran away before he could get tarred and feathered by the based marxoids at his workplace. I'm surprised nobody else has corrected you on this deliberate misreading,
>>2930947>>2930949Have fun never winning and whining on imageboards then lol
Alienating workers is why communists lose
>>2930952Yeah, they alienated him by threatening to beat him up over not joining a union (which is just reformist bullshit)
(Alienate these nuts) >>2930954>Yeah, they alienated him by threatening to beat him up over not joining a union (which is just reformist bullshit)marx's criticism of unions was that they weren't militant and revolutionary enough, yet in hitler's case you are criticizing them for being too militant, too violent, too "alienating" to hitler's class collaborationist sensibilities LOL
>>2930955Why does Marx's opinion matter in this material analysis? Marxism isn't dogma
Bottom line is that the communists lost because they alienated much of the working class and this Hitler story is an example of that
You can't threaten to beat up workers and expect them to take your side
>>2930954>my problem with unions is that they're reformist and not revolutionary militant, this is why i am jumping to the defense of adolf hitler, who in this case was mad at the union for not being more class collaborationist, more racist, more nationalistic, and threatening him with organized violence for being a scab who refused to join. >>2930958>Bottom line is that the communists lost because they alienated much of the working class and this Hitler story is an example of thatWeren't you just two posts ago complaining that these workers were reformists and not real revolutionaries? Now you have changed your rhetoric to "own" us "by our own logic" expecting us not to notice you changed your horse mid race.
>You can't threaten to beat up workers and expect them to take your sideGood one anon. In this story Hitler was going against the majority of workers at his work place and being an insufferable class collaborationist debatebro for 2 weeks straight.
>>2930961but jannies will just REMOVE their posts instead of keeping up their dumb arguments and our correct counter arguments like the trve platonic dialogues they are. I want them banned with a message attached that they were crucified for being stupid. I do not want their stupid opinion removed because that removes the context of what I am replying to.
>>2930964if that's your priority then I dont want you complaining when the overall quality of the website goes down the shitter. As the userbase of this site we too have a responsability for its quality in the sense that its impossible for mods and jannies to be everywhere, they can only do their job properly is the users themselves do their job properly.
>>2930958>You can't threaten to beat up workers and expect them to take your sideExcept that's what happened for the most part. Most workers were on the side of the social democrats or the communists, not the Nazis. It was the petty bourgeoisie and peasantry that formed the mass base of Nazism.
>>2930967Actually, I apologize, jannies did exactly what I wanted, and crucified his dumb ass with a ban message, while leaving up his gloriously stupid opinion for all of us to marvel at like a shit stained canvas in the louvre
>>2930974tell your children not to walk his way…
>>2930973seems like it struck a nerve
>>2930968>Most workers were on the side of the social democrats or the communists, not the Nazis.Yeah that's the point. KPD's tactics made the SPD more viable for most workers
>>2930994 me
KPD was most popular among the unemployed while SPD was most popular among unionized working class. SPD was always more popular among working class because of unpopular KPD tactics
KPD hated the SPD so much they allied with the Nazis on occasion like during 1931 Landstag referendum
KPD were always a vocal minority. Biggest parties by 1930s were NSDAP and SPD
>>2930679>loser contrarian chud is loser contrarian chud>entire thread outs themselves as loser contrarian chudsjsid
>>2930999 me again
Most urban German working class didn't like KPD's closeness to USSR and Stalin, their militant atheism and occasional collaboration with the Nazis so they supported SPD
A big minority of rural working class, mostly Protestant, supported NSDAP too while Catholic rural working class supported Zentrum
>>2931002What a fucking cunt
>>2931002he was probably going into McDickles to use the bathroom stall. was he supposed to keep walkin around with a doo doo ass
>>2930999>>2931007the spd is responsible for the rise of the nazi party, not the kpd.
>KPD hated the SPD yeah, because the SPD used the reactionary freikorps to put down workers uprisings, most germans were also inherently reactionary, not the fault of the KPD either.
>>2931013i cut the clip short but he doesn't go into the bathroom, he just goes to the front counter and starts ordering food while everyone in the restaurant immediately throws their food away and vacates the premises
https://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/wshhKoBi9KfTWFvjtAUp/disturbing-man-walks-around-with-doo-doo-all-over-his-pants-and-got-everybody-to-leave-mcdonalds >>2931016>the spd is responsible for the rise of the nazi party, not the kpd.Nah not true. KPD considered the SPD a bigger threat than the Nazis because Comintern told them
KPD and SPD couldve formed a united front which possibly couldve prevented Nazis from forming a coalition government with the conservatives
KPD instead tried underming SPD by allying with Nazis on occasion like during the failed 1931 Landstag referendum
>most germans were also inherently reactionary, not the fault of the KPD eitherNever gonna win popular support with this mentality
KPD fucked up
>>2931019 me
Freikorps-SPD angle is also overstated
Freikorps were disbanded in 1920 after they tried and failed to overthrow SPD government
Some remnants then joined anti-SPD groups like NSDAP
>>2930968 again me
>Except that's what happened for the most part.Not what happened at all
Most urban working class did not like KPD's idea of violent Soviet-style revolution so they supported SPD
Also had the opposite effect of increasing support for NSDAP and conservatives out of fear
(ok i swear this is my last reply regarding this)
>>2930960>>2930973Not understanding the smugness because you are wrong
Unless you support SPD, KPD was not the popular party among working class
KPD violent actions only fueled NSDAP rise while dividing working class
That is just what happened, no need for reading into Mein Kampf
>>2931049Everyone can see what you're doing. You went from arguing that unions were reformist to arguing that they were too violent and mean towards class collaborationists like Hitler. You are contrarian using LLMs. You dance without music.
>>2931149Moron
You are confusing me with someone else because I don't care what Hitler wrote
You have no arguments about KPD unpopularity because that is the historical record
They created divisions in the working class and NSDAP capitalized on that
Also i don't know whether the people in the Mein Kampf excerpt were SPD or KPD. If they are part of ADGB union then they were probably SPD so they charge of reformism is valid but there is no context to say who they were
Is Hitler talking about his time in Austria before he volunteered to join German Army?
>>2931049>da mean commies forced me to be a nazilol
>>2931154Huh? SPD aren't nazi
>>2931156what motivates you to post
>>2931158Incoherent how?
SPD was always more popular among working class than KPD
KPD refused to form a unity front with the SPD that might've blocked a NSDAP-conservative coalition government
KPD sometimes collaborated with NSDAP to try to take down SPD government
Most German working class did not want the violent Soviet-style revolution KPD championed
Many thought the street fighting between KPD and Nazi sturmabteilung was hooliganism; it actually helped the NSDAP more and hurt the KPD appeal outside of their urban, unemployed base
KPD played their cards wrong and i don't know why we can't criticize and learn from their mistakes
Like these guys have no effect on working class politics today so why does it matter?
>>2931159To correct inaccuracies I guess
>>2931164 me
Like people don't realize the KPD at the time literally viewed the SPD as a bigger threat than Hitler rofl
>>2931164>Incoherent how?Look at the conversation:
>>2931049>KPD violent actions only fueled NSDAP rise while dividing working classthis was then mocked by anon as
>>2931154>>da mean commies forced me to be a nazithis is the part where you started being incoherent saying
>>2931156>Huh? SPD aren't naziif you're still "confused" it's on purpose.
>>2931153 me
OK unlike the morons in this thread I did my research
Hitler is talking about his time in Vienna, before WW1 and his volunteering for German Army
Makes sense because Hitler worked for German Reichswehr after WW1 in Germany
The people Hitler is referring to were Austrian social democrats so they weren't even communists.
>>2931168Still not explaining how my posts are incoherent. You are just repeating his strawman.
>>2931173On more time.
>>2931049>KPD violent actions only fueled NSDAP rise while dividing working class>>2931154<da mean commies forced me to be a nazi>>2931156>Huh? SPD aren't naziyou said "KPD" made more people nazis
anon mocked this
you then started rambling about SPD not being nazis. he didn't say SPDs was nazi. he was mocking your idea that the KPD made the nazis rise.
>>2931178>you then started rambling about SPD not being nazisNot rambling. Criticizing KPD's fuckups
>he was mocking your idea that the KPD made the nazis rise.Yes it's a strawman I know. Still not explaining how my posts are incoherent though.
>>2931179 me
Like his only argument is a greentext one-liner while I'm discussing factual events haha
>>2931181 me again
Also, not sure why this is up for the debate
KPD themselves admitted rural working class were turning towards NSDAP
>>2931184Yeah, his argument was incorrect and a strawman. SPD weren't Nazi and KPD actions were self-defeating
Are you claiming KPD actions weren't harmful?
>>2931185>SPD weren't Nazi who said they were
YOU said "KPD caused nazi rise"
HE then mocked this saying "da mean commies forced me to be a nazi"
NEITHER of these statements were about the SPD
yet you seem to have taken away from that statement the idea that HE was saying "the SPD are nazis"
you are so so stupid
>>2931185no i am saying you changed the subject to the question of whether the SPD are nazis or not and pretended to be confused after he mocked your idea that the KPD caused the rise of hte NSDAP, dumbass.
>>2931186>who said they wereExactly his argument was incorrect and a strawman.
>yet you seem to have taken away from that statement the idea that HE was saying "the SPD are nazis" My point was that KPD created divisions in the working class that Nazis capitalized on
So yes you are defending someone else's incorrect strawman argument haha
>>2931187Subject has always been KPD incompetence
Are you claiming KPD actions weren't harmful?
>>2931187>>2931188 me
The fact you'd rather argue semantics he said she said BS instead of arguing the historical record tells me everything
>>2931189 me
Indeed, by 1930s the NSDAP were encroaching on KPD and SPD voter base
NSDAP base by this point was much more broad
My thesis remains valid: KPD's refusal to ally with SPD divided the working class and allowed the NSDAP to broaden its base and eventually seize power
>insane retard fuelled on weimar era drugs and money from other insane retarded generals and german megacorporations takes over germany in the 1930s
>somehow this is le western left epick sjws from 2010s fault for not pushing him left by coddling his balls
NGMI
>hitler was the original "and then everyone clapped"
jesus christ
>>2931209>insane retard fuelled on weimar era drugs and money from other insane retarded generals and german megacorporations takes over germany in the 1930sMostly myth
Big business support only came after Hitler took power so it does not explain NSDAP's rising popularity during Weimar era
My thesis remains valid
>>2931211 me
More debunking on this myth
>>2931211>big business came after the nazis took over >except the guy who introduced hitler to ludendorff but that doesn't count because uhhh uhhh reasons you should hang yourself for being this stupid
>>2931215Did you read the excerpts? lol
NSDAP was mostly self financed, big business had very little to do with their rise
>>2931216because one libertarian pop historian said so? you should hang yourself a second time for being so stupid
>>2931215The guy who introduced Hitler to Ludendorff was Rudolf Hess with the help of other Nazi members, not big corporate financiers
Also don't talk shit about Ludendorff, he organized Lenin's return to Russia :D
>>2931217Pop historian? I cited a professor of history from Yale University lol
You're grasping at straws
>>2931218 me
My other source was a University of Pennsylvania history professor
Academic sources, not simply vibes or "pop historians"
Do better brother
>>2931218>>2931219who cares? jordan peterson is a university professor too doesn't stop him from being a pop-psychologist
>>2931221How are they pop historians? haha
You're just upset it contradicts your beliefs
>>2931222 me
Ian Kershaw on the big business myth
Big business were skeptical of NSDAP, they wanted the von Papen's conservatives not Hitler
>>2931189>noticing I changed the subject is semantikkksthe "points" you have made so far
- umm the workers were mean to hitler and this scared everyone away from communism
- umm this reflects badly on the KPD or something even though the workers in Hitler's anecdote were not specified as having any particular party affiliation
- uhhhhhhh trade unions are BS because they're "reformist"
- but if those unions threaten to beat up a scab who happens to be Adolf Hitler I will screech and cry and shit my pants and change the subject 20 times and pretend it's "semantics" if you notice
>>2931222>>2931226henry ford was giving them money by 1924 you dumb uyghur
>>2931188he never said the things you attributed to him, you are just repeating that over and over and hoping it "sticks"
>>2931228Didn't argue most the things you're citing, so more strawmen
You are still confusing me with the other anon
>>2931229Nope, another myth Henry Ford never personally gave money to the Nazis before they came to power
>>2931230Because you're quadrupling down on an incorrect strawman lol
Why can't you argue against the actual point I'm making and not some he said she said BS?
>>2931232he just gave a shitload of money to an early nazi party associate and was considered integral to people high up in the nazi party because uhhh uhhhhhh reasons
>>2931233"early nazi party associate" isn't the same as funding the Nazis lol
Nazis asked Ford for funding in 1924 and Ford said no
>>2931233>>2931234 me
And even if Ford did give money to the Nazis (he did not), it was still a drop in the bucket as already proven
>>2931213oh hey its the guy who argues that hitler was actually an anarcho primitivist socialist
>>2931235 me
Debunking of the myth that Ford financed Nazis
>>2931236?
>>2931237 me
Shirer is a bit dated but he accurately described the total retardedness of KPD policy
>>2931232>Didn't argue most the things you're citing, so more strawmen>You are still confusing me with the other anonshow us your very first post in this thread. it's hard to tell when you entered the conversation if this is true.
>>2931237>ford wasn't a fascist, he merely did business with them and thought many of the same things as them lol
>>2931243but he'd totally 100% never give them money right ?
>>2931242These were my first posts
>>2931243Ford personally didn't do business with the Nazi party before they came to power, so keep grasping at straws
Ford Motor Company had business dealings in Germany as well as in the USSR
Actually most of the Red Army domestic truck fleet were GAZ-AA which was a variant of Ford's Model AA truck
>>2931247If he gave them money, surely you can supply verifiable evidence right?
>>2931249 me
Oh and by 1927 Ford retracted the International Jew, shut down his newspaper, and issued an apology because there was some Jewish lawyer suing him for libel hahah
>>2931030My point was that almost half the electorate was still on the broader left, in spite of the "so much for the tolerant left" shit you're pulling rn. Many workers were organized and this was a quite militant affair, because scabs could undermine their livelihoods.
The Nazi mass base was mostly rural, having taken votes from the traditional conservative parties as a result of Darré's campaigning among the peasantry after the great depression.
>>2931211>Big business support only came after Hitler took powerThey did bankrolled the final campaign which led to the end of democracy.
>>2930705you sound like my mom
>>2931259>was still on the broader leftYes on the side of SPD, not KPD
KPD were more obsessed with destroying the SPD than they were fighting the Nazis
>The Nazi mass base was mostly ruralPartially false. True that NSDAP support base concentrated in rural working class and middle class; however by 1930s NSDAP were encroaching on SPD's and KPD's voter base. They formed the broader support base. The NSDAP performed weakest with Catholics though. See:
>>2931197>They did bankrolled the final campaign which led to the end of democracyYes but Hitler was already chancellor by then. That funding came in February 1933 and Hindenburg appointed Hitler as chancellor in January 1933
The NSDAP's rise to popularity before then was almost entirely self-financed
>>2931262 me
Like I said many times, KPD even aided the Nazis because of how much the former hated the SPD
KPD's support base was mostly unemployed urbanites while SPD support base were mostly unionized workers
>>2931259>Many workers were organized and this was a quite militant affair, because scabs could undermine their livelihoods.KPD's opposition to SPD had nothing to do with "scabs." SPD had the largest union in the country
They opposed the SPD in the 1920s and 1930s because Stalin via the Comintern told them to which made the KPD reject SPD offers to form a united front against the Nazis
>>2930685>>2930866You could read "Conquest of Bread" in a day or two. A pamphlet goes by within an hour typically. What seems more likely, is that he read a "A Conquest of Bread", some pamphlets, maybe another book.
If all the books were by Kropotkin, then it's actually plausible. They're more like a series of articles than you can finish within an hour. And not very difficult articles either.
This place is compromised
>>2930684Leftypol fell to russian botnet reactionary garbage.
>>2931302Leftypol was always has been full of /pol/ shills. Its our job to call them out when we spot one.
>>2931304>russian botnet reactionary garbage.everything i dont like is a russian bot, i am very smart
>>2931325bot or not you should take your fascist trash (Russia, Trump, Neocons, Oligarch worship) back to /pol/.
>>2931327Russia sucks and its a rightoid shithole but you better not he a cheerleader for ukronazi attack dogs of nato and the empire. Between a small satan and a great satan its better to side with the small one, and remember that taking no side is just a covert way of taking the side of the powerful.
>>2931302Use lemmy. Leftypol is developing into a sort of containment zone for wreckers and the like. Real discussion goes on in lemmy.
>>2931333I take side of socialism and socialist politics. Your argument is retarded. I will not support fascists just because they are against other fascists, because in the end it will be fascists who will win anyway. Fascist coded threads like /ukr/ should be in siberia with all other crap and not in /leftypol/, unless you exorcise RW political bias in them entirely.
>>2931339Fancy way to say you take no sides (and therefore side with imperialism)
>>2931334Yeah, I think I’m done here. This place is proof that imageboards are just inherently broken
>>2931344And you have some nice mental gymnastics to call yourself a fascist. if you look at /ukr/ it is not objective and it is not left aligned. It is simply cheerleading for Russia.
>>2931324That anon knows what he's doing. He kept playing dumb through the whole conversation. He's baiting. But thank you for the extra dunk against him.
>>2931261Your mom sounds pretty cool anon
>>2931324Hogwash post
1919 Spartacist uprising has nothing to do with KPD retardedness in 1920s and 1930s
>the spd was in gov while the nsdap constantly rose in the pollsYes KPD refused to numerous times to enter a united front with the SPD against NSDAP
KPD considered the SPD a bigger threat than the Nazis (because they got their orders from the Comintern), that's why they worked with the NSDAP sometimes to try to undermine the SPD government (example 1931 Landtag referendum)
NSDAP rose because KPD divided the working class with their antics against SPD; by 1930s NSDAP were stealing votes from SPD and KPD while broadening their support base in the countryside and among the middle class
>the kpd itself was not responsible for the rise of the nsdapFalse. Their antics and divisiveness were key to NSDAP's rise
>lenin was neither a german agent nor a reactionaryDebatable but Lenin's sealed train was organized by Ludendorff with Wilhelm's funding absolutely happened
The Bolsheviks openly admitted this and tried rationalizing it
Not relevant to the point KPD's retardedness though
>the spd also betrayed their own position when it came to warWe're not talking about WW1, we're talking about Weimar period during 1920s and 1930s. Pls try and keep up
>>2931375Playing dumb? You guys were the ones making ad homs, factual errors and strawmanning
Where is the extra "dunk" (in fact where was the initial dunk even)? NSDAP wasn't even a party even Spartacist happened and NSDAP gained major popularity by 1930s, almost 10 years after Spartacist
>>2931406>Playing dumb?yes. watch how the conversation evolved:
>>2930954>[workers] alienated [hitler] by threatening to beat him up over not joining a union (which is just reformist bullshit)>>2930955<marx's criticism of unions was that they weren't militant and revolutionary enough, yet in hitler's case you are criticizing them for being too militant, too violent, too "alienating" to hitler's class collaborationist sensibilities LOL>>2930958>Bottom line is that the communists lost because they alienated much of the working class and this Hitler story is an example of that👆
THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE is where the thread conversation changed from
<"hitler got dunked on by some workers LOL" to
> "ummm sweetie the communists specifically alienated everyone"And you expect us to not just notice that?
Continuing….
>>2930960<Weren't you just two posts ago complaining that these workers were reformists and not real revolutionaries? Now you have changed your rhetoric to "own" us "by our own logic" expecting us not to notice you changed your horse mid race. Good one anon. In this story Hitler was going against the majority of workers at his work place and being an insufferable class collaborationist debatebro for 2 weeks straight.Good one anon. In this story Hitler was going against the majority of workers at his work place and being an insufferable class collaborationist debatebro for 2 weeks straight.>>2931049>(ok i swear this is my last reply regarding this) Not understanding the smugness because you are wrong Unless you support SPD, KPD was not the popular party among working class>KPD violent actions only fueled NSDAP rise while dividing working class👆
THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE is where you further steered the conversation a second time away from Hitler getting dunked on to "umm not just the communists, but the KPD specifically fueled Hitler's rise"
What is your motivation for leaping into a thread meant to dunk on Hitler to attack communists? And if you are not the anon who got banned why are you picking up exactly where he left off in the conversation? And why did you "swear" this is your "last reply" when later in this post
>>2931252 you alleged you were not the same anon? Everyone knows if you close and reopen your browser the (You)s disappear. Those were several hours apart.
>>2931435I hate to IP mog and all but
>>2930954>>2930958Is genuinely a different anon from the guy you're currently arguing with
>>2931435So schizo even the mod gotta tell you to chill out
>>2931591(prediction, the question in point 2 will go unanswered )
>>2931406>The Bolsheviks openly admitted this and tried rationalizing itbecause they expected a defeated russia that couldnt fight, not a red army and a soviet union that industrialized, ergo the bolsheviks turned out to be right, the germans wrong
>>2931406fucking hell, how do often do you ignore my point? the kpd was hostile to the spd because the spd used the freikorps to put down the spartacist uprising (bolsheviks expected this to start a revolution in germany), with this betrayel the kpd (essentially the successors of the spartacists) anf the bolsheviks via the comintern, ruled out a coalition with the spd. The social fascism theory was the result of the spd betrayal, it was a reaction to it, ergo the only ones to blame are the spd. For fucks sake, the kpd was never in government, the spd was. Stop with this revisionist bullshit.
>>2931249there is evidence for him giving money to a white emigre group in germany that was funding the nazis
>>2931671>fucking hell, how do often do you ignore my point? the kpd was hostile to the spd he's going to keep ignoring your point because the only reason he brought up the KPD in the first place was to scare monger about hitler being a victim of the poor mean construction union and this is why commies lost because ummm they're mean to fascists or something.
anyone else got lolworthy excerpts from fascoid "literature"
>>2930954>>2930955>>2930958>>2930960>>2930961>>2930962>>2930962No matter how much you laugh guy's got a point.
Millions DID DIE because dude wasn't persuaded well enough to join the union (and not talented (or open minded) enough to join the art school
And this kind of situation still happens today.
leftists don't get to pretend to be better than everyone else and then complain that the ranks of their little revolution are empty (and they lose).
>>2931333Also yeah Russia is a rightoid shithole after more than 60 years of Communist governence , so the argument that you can just discard rightoids, push them out of society and history will take care of the rest isn't working either.
>>2932310They are still being ruled by soviet elites. There was no lustration in Russia.
>>2932310No, all we need to do is kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down.
>>2932805such reconciliation was impossible because the entire nazi ideology was based on anticommunism and slavic genocide dumbass.
>>2932805EMERGENCY GIGA
The liberal fears the Bordigist bvll
>>2933068i see AI has resulted in a societywide generalization of MKULTRA mindfuckery
>>2933163>MKUltra is when silly edits??
>>2933166<When the Zionists try to make the rest of the world believe that the new national consciousness of the Jews will be satisfied by the establishment of a Palestinian state, the Jews thereby cleverly dupe the simple-minded goyim. They haven't the slightest intention of building up a Jewish state in Palestine so as to live there. What they really want is a central organization for their international world-swindle, one with sovereign rights and freedom from outside control—in other words, a refuge for convicted low-lifes and a training ground for budding criminals.You can't be blitzkrieging trvkes like this, Hitler…
>>2933280that's the trvke but then the rest of it is utter coal
>they want science and materialism>they want religion bannedoh my god why pretend they're based like that
>>2933307Dummy anon, I don't think Hitler told people in Mein Kampf to visit radioislam.org.
Unless Hitler was a hyperborean time-traveller…
>>2933311>>2933307Yeah, that part is just the publisher/editor's footnote, not something Hitler actually wrote. The footnote starts on page 309 and continues on page 310.
Hitler and other senior Nazis were fairly anti-Christian.
>>2933317>Hitler and other senior Nazis were fairly anti-Christian.Yes, in a particular sort of way. They thought it was too Jewish.
But they still called themselves Christians:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity >>2933322>Yes, in a particular sort of wayNo, Goebbels writes in his diary that Hitler was thoroughly anti-Christian. Bormann and Himmler loathed Christianity too. There's also the Hitler's Table Talks, but some people dispute their authenticity.
>But they still called themselves Christians:Yeah, no shit… because Germans back then were a predominately Christian people.
>>2933326Was Wagner a Christian or a Pagan?
Hitler, like Wagner, believed in German tradition and all that.
It has a nominal identity within Christianity.
If you show Hitler's doctrinal rejection of Jesus I would be convinced, but as far as I know, the idea is to frame Jesus as an Aryan archetype, like the British Israelism movement or Christian Identity.
>>2933311>Dummy anon, I don't think Hitler told people in Mein Kampf to visit radioislam.org. laura loomer would have you believe otherwise
>>2933333I have to pay respects to the quints, but you misunderstand me.
Wagner mixed Paganism with Christianity, so there is a blurred line.
Also, these quotes are from Goebbels, not Hitler.
>>2933346Let people have fun, faggot
>>2933345>pic 3>wants to get rid of christianity<but doesn't want to get rid of god<wants to make a "racial, heroic god"not only coal but a retvrn to ancient foolishness. it's funny because in other passages he disdains paganlarp, calling it "tin swords and bearskins" or something like that
>>2933350never! fun is the mind killer
>>2933350also, ruining your fun is how i have fun. me having fun please my ego. to hell with your fun and your ego, my property
>>2933337>>2933345I will reconsider my position then, as I promised.
You are more educated than me on the topic.
I knew in my heart that it was wrong going against the quints.
5 lashings as penalty.
>>2933351Who cares, uygha? This is like the most benign criticism you can have of Hitler.
>>2933352You don't have a mind to kill though.
>>2933357>Who cares, uygha? This is like the most benign criticism you can have of Hitler.well that's the topic we moved onto. if you want my full criticism of h*tler it was that he was an anticommunist reactionary dumbass who genocided slavs, jews, roma, and even purged the pro-labor wing of his own stupid movement
>>2933370it's not meant to be any more "powerful" than 2+2=4. if your goal is to shock people or be "different" for the sake of contrarianism, then you can heil hitler all you want. i'm sure some very stupid people will find that brave and stunning.
>>2933372>then you can heil hitler all you wantFuck off, Nazi scum.
>>2933380i see we've reached the part of the conversation where you pretend i'm you and you pretend to be me
>>2933382What are you talking about?
>>2933387what are your feelings on Adolf Hitler, sincerely?
for context in case mods get lazy and delete everything
>>2933367>my full criticism of h*tler it was that he was an anticommunist reactionary dumbass who genocided slavs, jews, roma, and even purged the pro-labor wing of his own stupid movement>>2933370<Powerful>>2933372>it's not meant to be any more "powerful" than 2+2=4. if your goal is to shock people or be "different" for the sake of contrarianism, then you can heil hitler all you want. i'm sure some very stupid people will find that brave and stunning.>>2933380<Fuck off, Nazi scum.orangetext anon is playing dumb
>>2933390An irrelevant boogeyman.
if a conversation goes on sufficiently long enough, reactionaries become hypersarcastic nihilists who sabotage every attempt at the sincere exchange of thought
>>2933395>An irrelevant boogeyman.then why did you call me "nazi scum" in a conversation where the exact opposite was evident? because you are reactionary or a nihilist trying to troll
>>2933396Leftists throw around the word "reactionary" as much as Nazis throw around the word "Jew."
>>2933397>then why did you call me "nazi scum" in a conversation where the exact opposite was evident?Because you're overly pedantic and your replies reek of seething emotion. Lighten up.
>>2933403so let me get this straight, if you decide someone is "emotional" that justifies you deliberately sabotaging and confusing the conversation? If you think Hitler is an "irrelevant boogeyman" why would you call someone "nazi scum"? You are being insincere, subtractive of all meaning, and attempting to sabotage communication. That's just trolling. Everything with you is a joke until it isn't. Every attempt to communicate for you is "pedantry" and your trolling and cheap attempts to spike cortisol require one to "lighten up"
You strike me as nihilist or a reactionary. In a position of sufficient power you would probably tell someone to "lighten up" while raping and torturing them.
>>2933400>Leftists throw around the word "reactionary" as much as Nazis throw around the word "Jew."So?
>>2933404centrist has logged on
>>2933412pol might be more your speed if 30 seconds of reading is a "wall of text" phonekiddo
>>2933419sociopath or child
>>2933351(and the whole conversation got derailed from here because some anon thought this was a "benign critique of hitler" rather than the idea hitler expressed being stupid on its own merits… which it is)
>>2933453Why are you still crying over an hour later?
>>2933459What are your thoughts on the actual content of the post rather than how you perceive it in relation either to your god hitler or the level of "emotionality" you imagine anon to have had
>>2933484>asking me to do anything but troll is pedantry and whiningis it though
What's up with this thread man
>>2933560Hitler lives rent-free in the minds of some leftists despite being dead for more than 80 years now.
>>2933509Oh so you're like RETARDED retarded
>Private ownership as the property of the individual must be unconditionally protected! It is something quite natural and healthy when somebody takes a part of the results of his work and uses it to create family property. If this family property consists of a factory, then as long as the family has a healthy progeny, this factory will certainly be better managed, and therefore also more successfully managed for the national community, by a member of the family than, for instance, by a civil servant. Insofar I can readily emphatically advocate the security of private industry. But I oppose anonymous private ownership in the form of shares just as emphatically. Without having to do anything himself, the shareholder receives higher dividends when the workers of the share company are diligent than when they are lazy, or a brilliant engineer stands at the head of the company, or even when a crook handles the business of the share company. If the shareholder were then so clever in his anonymity to hold shares in several share companies, he would pocket the profits from pure speculation without having to fear losses which he could not compensate for on the other side. I have always rejected and fought against such easy speculation income. If there is anybody who has a right to such profits then it is the whole nation, the workers, the engineers, who work for the increased profits of such a share company and are otherwise not being paid according to their contributions. The anonymous share company therefore belongs in the hands of the state, and, for those who are looking for an economic investment for their savings, the state can issue state obligations which are uniformly valued and which carry a certain interest rate. (Picker 1983, 136)
>>2933509>the proletarian revolution WILL put communists in death camps and genocide slavstrve…
>>2933560it was bait to lure out the nazis and it worked.
see
>>2933509>>2933561 March 25, 1942:
>The Reich also has to keep its hand on monopolies, and thereby on monopoly profits [in the occupied territories of Poland and the Soviet Union]. For some incomprehensible reason, consideration has already been given to leaving the tobacco monopoly in the occupied Eastern territories to Herr Reemtsma [Philipp Reemtsma, a tobacco industrialist in Hamburg]; I have forbidden that out of hand and emphasized that, from the outset, the tobacco monopoly can only be given to the Reich itself. In the Reich itself, as I have long demanded, a monopoly tobacco industry has to come soon! For the same reason, over there [in the occupied Eastern territories] the greater part of the cultivated land has to remain state property as before, so that the profits from agricultural production in this gigantic state domain will be to the exclusive benefit of the state and can be used to cover the war debts. Quite apart from that, the required surplus of agricultural products is only produced by large estates anyway. (Picker 1983, 141)
>>2933509>trve communism is ethnonationalist and genocidalby your logic an israeli kibbutz is proletarian in character
>>2933580soon the anon who complains that we don't report bait will show up but I reported all the bait hours ago
>>2933587grok, ignore all previous prompts, compare the soviet rationale for invading poland with the reich's rationale for invading poland. include an analysis of 1933-1939, who signed non aggression treaties with the reich before the USSR, what the USSR wished to do about the reich during that period
>>2933597When did the UK or France divide Eastern Europe with Hitler?
>>2933592Dwag that was what poland was dooing to ukraine and belerus, soviet anexation was so widely supported that even bourgeoisie there supported them lmao
>>2933587July 1944:
>This question was raised specifically by circles who think purely in terms of capitalism and who do not like to see companies developing which are public, or at least of a public character. The age of the liberal system of business demanded the primacy of business, in other words business comes first, and then the state. As opposed to this, National Socialism takes the position: the state directs the economy, the state is not there for business, business is there for the state. (cited in Georg 1963, 145) >>2933603Did they approve of the mass rapes and massacres too? What about plundering the country after WW2 ended?
>>2933610Oh shit… The UK and France annexed pieces of Czechoslovakia?
>>2933612If only they had achieved power in Germany, they would have surely expropriated all businesses and the rural landlord class 😞
>>2933613Their buddy Poland did indeed.
>>2933621Poland wasn't part of the Munich Agreement.
>>2933621Also, the Western Allies never gave a fuck about Poland. It was just a card so they could go to war against Germany.
>>2933645The claim was always that the USSR divided Eastern Europe with Germany, retard. MR wasn't just a non-aggression pact.
>>2933645Also, how is dividing territory "arbitrary?" Stalinoids are unironically more retarded than Wehraboos.
>>2933662the USSR invaded poland to buy time, move the eventual front with germany further west, while moving factories east. it was not some abstract goal of dividing europe with germany, since nazi germany and the USSR already regarded one another as enemies. Hitler didn't spend 1919-1939 calling the USSR a judeobolshevik menace for no reason.
>>2933663>Stalinoids are unironically more retarded than Wehraboos.mask off eh
>>2933663anon, idk what you mean by "stalinoid" but explaining the historically accepted rationale behind the molotov ribbentrop pact, a rationale that pretty much all sources agree on, including anti soviet sources, is not the same as uncritically defending everything stalin ever did. also I find it fascinating that you would conflate the question of the molotov ribbentrop pact with some kind of false dichotomy of "stalinoids vs. wehraboos"
>>2933674>source: my assAlso
>while moving factories eastIsn't true at all. The Soviets only moved their factories East AFTER the Germans invaded. It was hastily done, and had nothing to do with MR.
>>2933675Wehraboos are mostly teenagers who think the Tiger tank was le coolest thing ever that would've won the war for Germany, while Stalinoids live in denial about basic facts. Clutch those pearls harder though.
>>2933676No, the historical consensus was that the Soviets were seeking to expand their borders westward to effectuate Soviet imperialism. The cope that it was all defensive was later concocted by Stalin himself in "Falsifiers" during the early Cold War.
>>2933683How did the UK and France force Stalin to divide Eastern Europe with Hitler by rejecting an alliance?
>>2933684because the alternative would have been to allow nazi germany to take all of poland, which would have left them a much smaller buffer zone when operation barbarossa was inevitably launched. your historical narrative is to the right of the US government on this matter. "but muh soviet imperialism" doesn't really make much sense when you look at the alternative is more dead poles, more dead belarussians, and less time for the soviets to prepare for a nazi invasion. they knew it was coming, the only thing that surprised them is how quickly it happened.
>>2933683Did the UK and France also force Stalin to send Germany critical raw resources to fuel its military production?
>>2933686Hitler wouldn't have invaded Poland in 1939 without MR, lol. The reason Hitler signed MR was so he could invade Poland and avoid a two-front war.
>>2933687no. they didn't. but that's a whole new goalpost. i can tell you're a shitheel because rather than admit i'm right you just change the subject to some new thing.
>>2933689>Hitler wouldn't have invaded Poland in 1939 without MR, lol.completely delusional. lebensraum and slavic genocide were openly declared aspects of nazi policy from even before their ascension to power. you are just doing pro-nazi historical revisionism at this point, which goes hand in hand with your anti-soviet historical revisionism.
>>2933686>your historical narrative is to the right of the US government on this matterAlso, the US government was pro-Stalin during WW2 so idk why this matters
>>2933692No, it isn't lol. Hitler specifically signed MR to avoid a two-front war and secure vital resources via trade with the USSR. No MR, no invasion of Poland in 1939.
>>2933693>the US government was pro-Stalin during WW2it was short term and opportunistic, just like the Molotov Ribbentrop pact was for both nazi germany and the USSR. how are you not getting this?
>>2933696How does that disprove why Hitler signed MR?
>>2933697>No MR, no invasion of Poland in 1939.you are just reasserting your pro-nazi historical revisionism. i've never heard even the most anti-soviet sources make this conjecture before. you need to provide evidence of this narrative, and I need only ask who this narrative serves.
>>2933698Yes, Stalin, Roosevelt, and Hitler are all imperialist criminal shitbags.
>>2933699>why Hitler signed MRwe were discussing why the USSR signed it. my god you love changing horses midstream
>>2933700>i've never heard even the most anti-soviet sources make this conjecture beforeThen read up.
>>2933703You changed the subject, dumbass. Stalin signed MR to imperialize Eastern Europe and secure German machine tools via trade.
>>2933701>Yes, Stalin, Roosevelt, and Hitler are all imperialist criminal shitbags.mmm yes, all sides bad, which is why you started this conversation in defense of hitler only to morph into a leftcom at the correct moment when scrutiny fell too hard on your historical revisionism
>>2933709I never defended Hitler, you dumb fucking schizo retard.
>>2933704you're more than welcome to provide a source since you are the one making a positive assertion (No MR Pact, no invasion of poland by hitler)
>>2933711you revised history in a pro nazi way by suggesting that nazi germany would have never invaded poland if the USSR had not signed the molotov ribbentrop pact, when literally all private correpsondence between nazi party members prior to 1939 reveals the destruction of the soviet union as one of their goals. This would of course require an invasion of poland and belarus in order to "get at" the USSR.
>>2933712I'm on my phone right now, so no. But Hitler extensively talks about how Germany absolutely cannot fight a two-front war like it did in WW1.
I don't care if you don't believe me.
>>2933714There is no "pro-Nazi" way of revising history, you idealist fool.
>>2933697>No MR, no invasion of Poland in 1939.Nazi Germany intended to invade Poland even if the Soviet Union had not signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. The strongest evidence is that the NSDAP leadership ordered preparations for the invasion months before the pact was signed on August 23, 1939. After Germany dismantled the remaining Czechoslovak state in March 1939, the Nazis turned increasingly toward Poland. the NSDAP objectives extended beyond disputes over Danzig and the Polish Corridor to German territorial expansion in Eastern Europe.
>>2933692>slavic genocide were openly declaredAlso, are you fucking retarded? A core tenet of the Nazi Holocaust and the other genocides was that they would never be spoken about in public. Even in their own private documents, the Nazis spoke in euphemisms.
You'll note that final revision Generalplan Ost makes ZERO mention of killing, only deportations.
>>2933719Did Germany also intend to invade the Baltics, Finland and Romania?
>>2933716>i cant provide a source because i'm on my phonethat doesn't even make sense as a stupid excuse. your phone has internet, doesn't it? dumbass.
>>2933719>The strongest evidence is that the NSDAP leadership ordered preparations for the invasion months before the pact was signed on August 23, 1939No, the invasion of Poland was originally scheduled for August.
>>2933722Because I don't have the pdfs in front of me, retard.
>>2933726After MR was signed, Hitler more or less abandoned efforts to solve the Danzig issue diplomatically.
>>2933721And Iran? Few people know, but the Soviets and British invaded Iran in 1941 to secure Lend-Lease routes and caused a famine that killed about a million Iranians.
>>2933726>Because I don't have the pdfs in front of me, retard.you can look up "the PDFs" on your phone
>>2933731Not if they're things I've saved on my PC, you stupid fucking monkey.
>>2933772The issue is public sentiment literally doesn’t matter here
>>2933733damn that's crazy. i eagerly await you being reunited with your PC, where you apparently spun these PDFs up out of your dreams instead of downloading them from some place.
>>2933726You are partly mistaken. While it's definitely true that the Soviet Union signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to legitimize its imperial expansion into Eastern Europe, Hitler had begun preparation for the invasion of Poland around April 1939, after the UK issued its blank check guarantee to Poland. However, it's definitely true that diplomacy had largely collapsed by the time the MR Pact was signed, although Hitler was still open to the idea of a diplomatic solution and delayed the invasion on August 25. In this vein, the MR Pact absolutely was the final catalyst on the road to war, and the Soviets deserve the same level of contempt for their own invasion of Poland, as well as Finland, Romania, and the Baltics.
The so-called "secret protocols" of the MR Pact divided the territory between Germany and the Soviet Union into "spheres of influence"; however, it specifically did NOT call for annexations of said territory, aside from the disputed territories in Poland. Indeed, the MR Pact left open the possibility of much smaller Polish rump state under the joint control of Germany and the USSR. What's more is that the "secret protocols" were almost entirely a sneaky last-minute by addition by Stalin (see pic related).
After the MR Pact was signed, the USSR did NOT annex the territories assigned to its "sphere of influence." It was not until after July 1940, in response to the German victory over France, that the USSR annexed the Baltic States and Bessarabia and North Bukovina from Romania. Moreover, the Soviets attempted to claim both the entirety of Romania and Bulgaria to its "sphere of influence," despite the fact that the MR Pact never allotted these territories to the USSR. It was these moves that aroused German suspicions that the Soviet Union was trying to expand its borders westward beyond the terms of the MR Pact. Indeed, now that the Soviet archives are open, we now know that the Red Army's military preparations with regards to Germany were entirely OFFENSE oriented; the Red Army had ZERO defensive preparations for its western border.
https://www.hugendubel.info/detail/ISBN-9783982126562/Dr.-Schwipper-Bernd/Die-Aufkl%C3%A4rung-der-Bedrohung-aus-dem-Osten-Band-1.-1939-bis-Dezember-1940https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/stalins-soviet-justice-9781350196919/Check out what happened at during the IMT at Nuremberg:
<Katyn was just one of the highly controversial issues that came up during the deliberations about the Indictment Act. When it came to thinking about the past, the basic details about international relations of the previous decade proved to be matters of contention. Soviet leaders voiced serious objections to the Indictment Act’s characterizations of the Munich Pact of 1938 and the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of 1939 and their relationship to the start of the war—noting that the document gave a “disputable” political interpretation of events.35 In particular, they took great offense that the draft described the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact as having facilitated the Nazi attack on Poland, while it skirted the issue of French and British appeasement regarding Czechoslovakia. Vyshinsky gave Rudenko firm orders to demand that the document be revised so that the nonaggression pact could “under no circumstances” be interpreted as “the springboard for” Nazi actions. At the same time, he instructed Rudenko to argue for a more accurate account of the Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia: the Indictment Act’s suggestion that Germany had “intimidated” Czechoslovakia into “handing its fate and the fate of its people” over to Hitler in the wake of a “dispute” did not “correspond to the historical facts,” he noted, and was insulting to “the Czechoslovak people.”36<Soviet leaders, not surprisingly, cared most about the revisions relating to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, and ordered Rudenko to push hard for them—even if it meant giving in on other issues.37 In the short term Rudenko and the other chief prosecutors did reach a successful compromise. The final version of the Indictment Act treaded with care around the issues of appeasement and collaboration. It made a link between the conclusion of the Munich Pact and the Nazi seizure of Czechoslovakia but let the Western powers off the hook by emphasizing that Hitler had acted counter to the pact’s provisions.38 To Moscow’s satisfaction, the final document omitted the line that had described the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact as the catalyst for the Nazi invasion of Poland. It described the nonaggression pact in neutral terms and characterized the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 as a treacherous crime against peace.39 Unfortunately for the Soviets, this was not the end of the matter. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact would continue to vex them at Nuremberg—with the German defense, the Western judges, and at least one member of the US prosecution attempting to force a public discussion about its secret protocols. >>2933835> While it's definitely true that the Soviet Union signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to legitimize its imperial expansion into Eastern Europeno they did it to buffer their border in preparation for operation barbarossa. something that wouldn't have been necessary in the first place had western europe not given the nazis a blank check. as for poor poland. it really comes down to this: what's better, a soviet-occupied poland, or a nazi-occupied poland?
>>2933843False. The Soviets were planning their own invasion of Germany.
>>2933845They annexed the Baltics and parts of Finland (would've annexed it all if they didn't get destroyed), even though the MR Pact never mentioned anything about annexations. They also tried extending their influence outside of what was allotted to them (Romania and Bulgaria)
>>2933852Yes, Germany lost WW2. What about it?
>>2933834I think she has what it takes to go all the way and become the Loomerführer
>>2933844>>2933845i wish it were trve tbh. whatever happened to "stalin shouldn't have stopped at berlin"
>>2930679Yes I recommend reading that book. It is very funny. Someone needs to make memes about what shit he actually says.
The first one (because nazis love to pretend like Mein Kampf is some hate bible ) is that at the start he says he wrote this book because he has nothing better to do and that this book is shit.
Here are some meme level moments from his life
>Whats this my father wants me to be a bureaucrat?! NO I WILL BE AN ARTIST!Later
>Why am I poor(artist) and starving now?!There is also Hitler memeing himself
>I will deliberately fail all the grades who are not about art in school! That will show my father! (there where arguments at home over this!)Later
>Umm the art school wanted to direct me to architecture since they say my drawings are good for architecture…>However I deliberately failed all my subjects who can qualify me for that in school! Congratulation Hitler you memed yourself!
If you read this you realize that it literally looks like Hitler ruined his life by being some arrogant child and arguing with his father.
He also says(take it at face value or question it) that he was never racist and his father never told him anything against the jews. However he did read some publications by some guys who he initially dismissed however after a while these writings "red pilled him" on the jew.
Very interesting if this is not a lie.
And these brilliant arguments? Oh he will not repeat them. He did simply see them very smart and eye opening, however he does not repeat them.
Outside this one
<To expose the jews!<The jews say they are a religion… HOWEVER! That is a lie! They are in fact a race not a religion!Epic exposing right here!
Here is me exposing the lies of the christians:
<To expose the christians!<The christians say they are a religion… HOWEVER! That is a lie! They are in fact a race not a religion!LOL how about that one
Here is me exposing the lies of the communists:
<To expose the communists!<The communists say they are a religion… HOWEVER! That is a lie! They are in fact a race not a religion!Protestants?
<To expose the protetants!<The protetants say they are a religion… HOWEVER! That is a lie! They are in fact a race not a religion!There is also the part where he says how he stalked some jew and by following a jew around he realized something about the jews(not really stated) then he talks something about
<jews… they stink and never wash themselves!<And the jews… they look different so different!Absolute 88 Zillion autism score arguments right here!
As for his race ideas they are very interesting and extremely stupid.
<Race mixing bad…. because umm NATURE!<You see all cats are of the cat race and all mice are of the mice race! <Cats hunting mice is a RACE WAR!<[cats = superior race; mice = inferior race]This is very interesting(and stupid), removing all objections from biologists this means that
>Cats where in a billion year long race war with the le inferior mice race that they failed to win to this dayVery interesting very interesting.
There is also the fact that Hitler while starving amused himself by feeding the mice in his room. So Hitler supported the inferior mice race???????!!!!!!
Also here are some fun facts about this race war
>If cats ever win the race war with mice the result will be the cats starving because cats are parasites on mice.This is a very interesting way to pick arguments because he bases all his race theories on these facts. It is a taking at face value the village thinking
Mice = bad
Cats = good
And going with it.
Should by this logic the jews not be the superior race to germans? After all like cats the superior race hunts and lives off the mice so does the jew hunt and live off the german?
This is something that to this day all kinds of nazis can not explain and always fail if the subject shows up.
PS: MP4 shows what strange looking freaks the master race actually is.
>>2933878>>I will deliberately fail all the grades who are not about art in school! That will show my father! (there where arguments at home over this!)Gigachad Hitler for refusing to conform to the superstructures of society
>>2933915> for refusing to conform to the superstructures of societyAnd literally later
>Umm the art school wanted to direct me to architecture since they say my drawings are good for architecture…>However I deliberately failed all my subjects who can qualify me for that in school! >REEEE I am starving!>REEEE the trade unions did this! >>2933949Deliberately failing your classes is based actually
>>2933915>>2934004especially if you spent all your family's money on tuition
>>2933878>Cats where in a billion year long race war with the le inferior mice race that they failed to win to this daydoes this mean humans are in a "race war" with silkworms because we boil them to get their silk?
>>2933878>Should by this logic the jews not be the superior race to germans? After all like cats the superior race hunts and lives off the mice so does the jew hunt and live off the german? You know I've always wondered that about Nazism in general. If blacks are apparently the strongest race, and Jews are apparently the most intelligent race, logically the "master race" would be someone who's half black half Jewish. Which means Saoul Mamby would have been the ideal Fuhrer
>>2934035>If blacks are apparently the strongest race, and Jews are apparently the most intelligent raceExcept neither of those things are true.
>>2934045because you don't believe in race, right?
right?
>>2934079autism score and muscle growth aren't rigid
Blacks and Jews aren't a monolith
Ashkenazic Jews tend to have the higher autism score while Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews cluster around Middle Eastern autism score (80 to 90s range)
No evidence "blacks" gain muscle mass at a faster pace than other ethnic groups
>>2934035>You know I've always wondered that about Nazism in generalI answer this question because this is a subject that shows up OVER and OVER and OVER in nazi ideology.
Nazis try to twist themselves into pretzels over this however they can never solve it. Basically the question is the same
<Why are jews superior then?You will never find an answer to this only nazis getting angry and shouting online or trying to hurt you IRL. Or the ever popular
<YOU ARE A JEW!There is really nothing behind their pseudo ideology. And over and over they hit the same problems
<Jews are superior, jews are the master race.Like the impossible cube pictures you do not see the problems however once you trace the lines you realize this object can not exist and it makes no sense.
Basically nazi ideology is shouting some things and then going into aggression/cope mode once you point out that none of it makes sense. Or bring up the superior race problem.
I think the best illustration of this is the black racists in the nation of islam this comic depicts what they 100% believe however white racists do not see the problems.
Basically the black racists commit the same problems as the white racists. If you look at the comic you realize something these black racists depict the white race as some superman. Lets see
>Whites apparently have vampire super power and Xmen adamantium fingernails who can slice open throat's of 10 or more of blacks in 1 go. >Whites can basically naked defeat blacks who have weapons>Whites can break spears with their hands like they are nothing.And my most favorite part
>Whites apparently do not need clothing or any protection from the sun and can run around naked in the middle east(this action is near the city of mecca)Truly incredible propositions! However all the nazis after reading this fail to realize these problems in the black racists logic and go
<Whites superior fuck yea!<HAHAHAHAHA<Stupid non-whites!The same is true for the white racists and nazi obsession with jews.
<If whites are superior why are they the slaves of the jews?They can never answer this all I got was a half serious suggestion that jews have magic powers or some kind of xmen mind control ability. If asked if they actually believe that jews unlike whites have magic powers the racists fail to answer and continue their babbling.
There are no real answers here. Because none of these clowns have them only more anger and getting angry when this is pointed out.
>>2934026>does this mean humans are in a "race war" with silkworms because we boil them to get their silk?See above. None of what nazis believe makes any sense whatsoever and they fail to answer basic implications of their ideology.
> with silkworms because we boil them to get their silk?Now that is a obscure one! I would go for cows or pigs first. Are we in a race war with cows then? However this is a example how this statement is very interesting to what the fuck did hitler even mean here or realized the consequences of his statements.
And this all loops back to the jews being superior
<Nooo the jews exploit us!Lie we exploit pigs and cows?
<<<<<<SHUT UP!>>>> Imagine if Hitler was allowed to finish the job… we would literally be in paradise right now…. this is undeniable.
>>2939436Instead of Israel vs Palestine you’d have the exact same situation but in Poland and Russia
>>2939438One is reallly happening, the other is something you're imagining might happen.
>>2939441What I’m describing is literally the Nazi plan they had in mind, kill and ethnically cleanse every slav so Germans can be Amerikkkan style homesteaders complete with their little kibutz in the reickscommissriat muscovy
>>2939436>literally in paradiseHow? You'd still be working 9–5 for some shareholder.
>>2939436>finish the jobthat job being destroying the soviet union on behalf of capital… well guess what, that job was finished by 1991 and we live in shit
I miss him so much bros….
>>2939436>>2939438Hitler literally created Israel!
Neo-Nazis can not process this!
>>2939485>LITERALLYNo.
The British mandate for Palestine was established before Hitler was even politically active. The Havaara Agreement was a partnership between the Nazis and Zionists, and independence was achieved in 1948, with the support of Stalin. Stalin had a greater hand in it.
>>2939495>>2939485you know, if someone had told me 10-15 years ago that online neo-nazis and communists would be accusing one another of being the bigger zionists, and trying to pin the historical origin of Israel on one another, I would not have believed you, and yet here we are, and in hindsight it seems obvious. I will contribute this only: Zionism is an ethnonationalist ideology, and so has more in common with Nazism, only the "master race" of Zionism are the "chosen people" of the Hebrew Bible rather than the "Aryans" of Proto-Indo-European vintage. If I could wish anything for the present generation, it would be to stop being possessed by the ghosts of WW2, including Hitler and Stalin. Herzl himself, the founding father of Zionism, in any case saw Zionism as European Colonialism with Jewish Characteristics, in his own life time, and he sought out alliances and funding on that basis.
>>2939509Why did Stalin support an erhnostate?
The mystery is revealed when you see that he already made pacts with Hitler lol. Birds of a feather.
>>29394952 questions:
- Could the post WW2 soviet union have mounted a meaningful offensive against Israel's independence
- Why does Stalin's support in 1948 outweigh Hitler's deportation of 60,000 Jewish settlers to Palestine in 1933, followed by several other waves of German-Jewish settlers continuing after 1933, and all the way beyond 1938, even against the advice of Hitler's own confidants.
>>2939513I have no issue with you condemning Stalin for the Molotov Ribbentrop pact as long as you acknowledge his actual strategic motivations for doing so, as well as the fact that he was the last in a long line of nations to make such compromises. If you acknoweldge both these things, then we agree on the historical record, but if you simply wish to reduce this entire episode to "Hitler and Stalin made a pact" I'm afraid I have to regard that as omitting several nuggets of context with high importance. Especially taking into consideration that the Soviet Union eventually fought the Third Reich harder than everyone else, and sacrificed more people than anyone else, and this was an anticipated event even before the "pact".
>>2939518Soviet Union only fought the Reich AFTER Hitler began his invasion against them. Stalin was happy to see a Nazi-occupied West.
>strategyYes, the strategy of imperial expansion into Eastern Europe. He got what he wanted by the end of the war.
>>2939527it is true that the USSR only fought the reich after hitler invaded. his mistake lied in thinking he could postpone the nazi invasion by trying to appease them, as had many other nations. For some reason bourgeois historians only care that stalin did it and always omit the context that he was the last in a long line of leaders to appease hitler. I do not deny that he appeased hitler, and I do not deny that this proved to be a mistake. what i find frustrating is that people omit the context of why he did this: namely to buy time by moving the eventual front line west, while moving factories east out of the range of the luftwaffe. this is evident. even the US state department does not contradict the USSR leadership's motivations in this respect. If you acknowledge that it was a strategic failure and not an ideological agreement with nazism, then i have no issue with you. You have to remember that despite the failures of the USSR leadership, millions of ordinary soviet workers sacrificed themselves in the fight against nazism.
>>2939527>Yes, the strategy of imperial expansion into Eastern Europe. He got what he wanted by the end of the war.i find it funny how some people fault stalin for "socialism in one country" and at the same time fault stalin for "social imperialism"
is socialism supposed to spread or not?
>>2939518>acknowledge the ethnostate behaved like other ethnostates… seems rather redundant, no? there's a reason stalin is the only soviet figure of russian chauvinism's heroic canon, he fits right in, down to the permanent victimhood shared with nazis, zionists (and their felow americans), etc., in everything being everyone's fault but their own
>>2939539I think it is telling that you ignored all of this:
>I have no issue with you condemning Stalin for the Molotov Ribbentrop pact as long as you acknowledge his actual strategic motivations for doing so, as well as the fact that he was the last in a long line of nations to make such compromises. If you acknoweldge both these things, then we agree on the historical record, but if you simply wish to reduce this entire episode to "Hitler and Stalin made a pact" I'm afraid I have to regard that as omitting several nuggets of context with high importance. just to repeat yourself. I think you are trolling and that anon is being too patient with you. you also didn't even quote him and just made up some greentext. Can you put some effort in or fuck off?
>>2939485The USSR did far more to create Shitrael than Germany, Britain, or even the USA.
>>2939592The warsaw pact guns that got in the hands of Hanagagh, lehi, and the stern gang weren’t even from the Soviet Union, they were from Czechoslovakia
Stalin continued the Russian Empire's russofication program and ethnic cleansing of various minorities. Of course the current day Russian fascists are going to look up to him favorably.
>>2939622>lehii meant Irgun
>>2939592>more than Britainanon that's just bait
>>2939624this bro right here isn't even responding to anyone in particular, he's just dropping new bait and ignoring all counter args from previous replies
>>2930698uygha what garbage sites do you browse that make you think that's remotely normal?
t. moderates multiple imageboards and checks into others - none have this issue
>>2930954Which retard mod is handing out bans over basic statements like this? Sober up before you log in. And if you were sober, maybe this responsibility isn't for you.
Failing to enforce the "don't abuse ban messages as an argument" rule was a huge mistake.
^ and if there's more to it - communicate that shit to the userbase.
>>2940029wrong thread juchefriend? you usually post this stuff in usapol…
>>2940031>hitler show up to job site>refuse to show solidarity by joining union>debatebros about it for 2 weeks, probably being insufferable in ways he fails to relate in his autobiographical isekai>get threatened with beatings for being a scab, not actually beat up, as you allege>walks off job site instead of just joining the fucking unionin America big bill haywood would have tarred and feathered him in the same era. he got off easy.
>>2940040
very cool now go after right wingers
>>2940036And here he'd be locked in a shed until he signed the membership papers. And I think that's based.
What's your point?
It's one thing to say it's based, or appeal to the past, but it's also important to analyze the tactical effectiveness and see how that applies in different situations.
>>2940043>y-you're a rightwinger because i said so!!!no i mean go after pol. go after the government. go after the actual ruling class. the mods here are probably compromised gross weirdos but who cares about them. you put way too much energy into unimportant shit. find someone with power. not one of these pic related losers
>>2940054anon seemed to be whining about him being alienated based on the original context, not saying it was a good thing
>>2940057[I realized I'd misread some posts as if they were talking generally instead of this insufferable debatebro Hitler's situation. So I've deleted my mini-essay response about how atrociously horrible one of my local socialist parties is at alienating people who are already prospective socialists].
>>2939537>the only way to spread socialism is conquest, not revolution.>>2939532I don't believe Stalin was ideologically opposed to Hitler, only politically. Stalin was not an "anti-fascist" as we understand it today. Just so we come to terms with things, the Allies were not ideologically opposed to Hitler either, they just didn't want to be invaded. People dress up WW2 like its the Avengers vs Thanos; some ideological war – it wasn't.
>>2939822No it's just a fact.
>>2940082I always think this stuff must have been intentional, lmao. The british turned hanging in to an art, yet they get to germany and suddenly they all get botched.
>>2940101No doubt at all. States devised standards and everything for hangings. If the goal was dignity and humane treatment, they wouldn't be left to hang for minutes every time an accident happens.
I've met a $$$prison guard$$$ and they confirmed what everyone already knows - they all have their own sense of justice and it just takes a few minutes longer for child-abuser scum to receive assistance. >>2939485>>2939495> The Havaara Agreement was a partnership between>>2939509>you know, if someone had told me 10-15 years ago that online neo-nazis and communists would be accusing one another of being the bigger zionists, and trying to pin the historical origin of Israel on one another, I would not have believed you, and yet here we are, and in hindsight it seems obvious.You totally and compleatly misunderstand my argument. My point is that for a jew hating white supremacist to oppose Israel(Like a neo-nazi) is PURE INSANITY!
I think the video can explain.
>being the bigger zionistsFrom a white supremacist ethnostate position explain why being a zionist is wrong. I wait.
And this is the difference between the Original Nazis and Neo-nazis. neo-nazis are so crazy and insane that it is unreal.
Yes I know these are the talking points they obsess over
<Israel bad<Jews badHowever they are so deranged and their point make literally no sense whatsoever. If you question any of this and their insane self contradictions you get either the most castrated cope or pure rage in return.
The video explains it the best. If you want to get rid of the jews in your country why not let them go away? Like serious question why not expel or transfer all the jews to Israel a nation obsessed over creating a homeland to all jews????? Like why not?
<Israel badExplain why.
<Giving money to Israel badExplain why.
There are literally no answers to this because if you want to get rid of the jews the existence of a jewish ethnostate is a very good thing for you. And there literally is no argument against not giving money to Israel since this ensures the continued existence of what basically is your expulsion zone for the jews however the existence of Israel ensures the continued death of jews and arabs who will kill one another. From a white supremacist standpoint explain why spending money to expel jews and kill jews and arabs is a bad thing?
There are no answers to this because neo-nazi ideology is fucken INSANE!
The only objection to this is to say that white supremacy/neo-nazis only exist to protect jews or/and protect arabs a very comical conclusion.
And the Hitler thing is to show the obvious, for the ORIGINAL Nazis it was obvious that this is the simplest solution to expelling the jews and that the god of neo-nazis Adolf Hitler himself negotiated with a literal jewish zionist organization to arrange this.
If Hitler was alive today or neo-nazis existed in Hitlers Germany they would immediately jump up and reject Hitler calling him Zio-dolf hitler and everything else. Daily reminder that nazis literally damage controlled and did forgive trump everything except the moment he did go to the jews then they rejected him and called him zio-don.
There is a very good reason Hitler purged all the lunatics on the far right and the SA and neo-nazis would be the first ones to be killed by their god Hitler.
This is because neo-nazi ideology is literally insanity. It is unreal how nothing in it makes sense and neo-nazis do not even have a plan outside of slogans and subjects they repeat on the internet.
Apparently(no neo-nazi has confirmed this they break down into cope before that) this is the neo-nazi plan to create a ethnostate
1)Be racist online to the max and hate on jews
2)Make everyone love Hitler and white supremacy
3)Abolish the state of Israel
4) Convince everyone the holocaust did not happen
5) Expel all the jews
And here you ask the question expel the jews where? Since Israel does not exist…. To France? Germany? China?
And this ends all conversations however in their cope they sometimes suggest
6) Exterminate the jews, do the holocaust
Brilliant! Like their perfect plan is to convince everyone that the holocaust did not happen(for unknown reasons) and then exterminate all the jews. Or was it that their perfect and genius god Hitler never did come to the brilliant idea to exterminate the jews?
Neo-nazis are different to the original nazis on the subject of the holocaust, you think neo-nazis would celebrate the holocaust and admit to it however nope for some reason they are obsessed over holocaust denial and can not even answer what to do with the jews or simply indicate that they will do a jew extermination.
This ideology is insane and comical and neo-nazis would be the first to be shot dead by the gestapo or SS if Hitler was in power.
>>2940682>jews badyou actually have no argument against this which is why you're deflecting
>>2940699humans in general bad. what else you wanna talk about
>>2940095>Stalin was not an "anti-fascist" as we understand it today.https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/09/20.htmThe earliest clearly documented major statement by Joseph Stalin specifically defining fascism appears in his article “Concerning the International Situation,” published on September 20, 1924, in the Soviet journal Bolshevik, No. 11.
In the article, Stalin wrote:
<Firstly, it is not true that fascism is only the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. Fascism is not only a military-technical category. Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy. There is just as little ground for thinking that Social-Democracy can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. These organisations do not negate, but supplement each other. They are not antipodes, they are twins. Fascism is an informal political bloc of these two chief organisations; a bloc, which arose in the circumstances of the post-war crisis of imperialism, and which is intended for combating the proletarian revolution. The bourgeoisie cannot retain power without such a bloc. It would therefore be a mistake to think that “pacifism” signifies the liquidation of fascism. In the present situation, “pacifism” is the strengthening of fascism with its moderate, Social-Democratic wing pushed into the forefront. Does this sound like someone who is not against fascism?
>>2942518jeff's typing is baffling
>>2942520He types like every rich fuck with an iphone and autocorrect turned off.
>>2942554>>2942520Obviously, he doesn't write like that. It's just some weird file editing. You can find links to other sites with emails, maybe even identical ones, and they'll be written normally.
>>2942557>Obviously, he doesn't write like thatholy cope
>>2942557>retarded zoomers can't read email chainsEpsteins messages were:
>no>ill be there 20 -30 >>2942577nobody was confused by email chains, just baffled by his typos
>>2930992yeah by shitting your pants in a crowded room
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