GRETA SPEAKS!Opinion Zionism as Racism: The Soviet Ploy Used to 'Explain' Israel and Hamashttps://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-12-13/ty-article-opinion/.premium/zionism-as-racism-the-soviet-ploy-used-to-explain-israel-and-hamas/0000018c-6261-de43-affd-f663727c0000>The preponderance of Hamas apologists emerging among some in the progressive left reveals that not only is the "Big Red Lie" back, it's more potent than ever.The ‘Z’ word: Reclaiming Zionismhttps://thejewishindependent.com.au/the-z-word-reclaiming-zionism/Zionism is racism debate ‘unhelpful’, says Scottish Green co-leaderhttps://www.eastrennews.co.uk/news/national/26646170.zionism-racism-debate-unhelpful-says-scottish-green-co-leader/Equality watchdog writes to Greens over 'Zionism is racism' motionhttps://www.British Broadcasting Corporation.co.uk/news/articles/cmly0np1gldvo Fighting Delegitimization: The United Nation’s “Zionism Is Racism” Resolution, a Case Study https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/85th-anniversary/fighting-delegitimization-the-united-nations-zionism-is-racism-resolution-a-case-study>On November 10, 1975, the UN General Assembly adopted G.A. Resolution 3379, which declared Zionism to be “a form of racism and racial discrimnation.” The resolution also cited the political declaration adopted at the Conference of Ministers of Foreign Affairs of Non-Aligned Countries held at Lima, Peru, on August 25–30, 1975, which had condemned Zionism “as a threat to world peace” and a “racist and imperialist ideology.”
>This resolution—most commonly referred to as the “Zionism is racism” resolution— came onto the scene against the backdrop of the Cold War. At that time, the United Nations was a forum in which countries often vied for the approval of, and were aligned with, one of the two great powers. Beginning in the 1960s, following the June 1967 Six-Day War, the Soviet Union began promoting the concept of “Zionism-equals-racism” as a way to strengthen its relations with, and support for, the Arab countries in their ongoing conflict with the State of Israel. The very essence of Zion- ism as the Jewish movement of national liberation and self-determination, which created the only democratic society in the Middle East where Jews and Arabs could live alongside one another, was deliberately distorted into its own antithesis. According to Israel’s enemies, which after 1967 included almost all of the Communist states and many of the so-called non-aligned countries, any manifestation of Jewish national rights was deemed hostile to Arab claims to the entirety of the territory between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River. Thus, anti-Zionism became a staple of foreign policy not just for Arab and Communist governments, but also for those countries that wanted to burnish their so-called “anti-imperialist” credentials. This process accelerated as Egypt, the Arab world’s most populous country, began moving away from the Soviet sphere of influence in the Middle East. In 1973, the UN General Assembly passed an anti-apartheid resolution that condemned “the unholy alliance between Portuguese colonialism, South African racism, Zionism and Israeli imperialism.”Previous thread:
>>2917069 The Canary news website is now shutting down permanently due to financial issues, this follows them being de-banked by Lloyds with no prior notice. While Lloyds has refused to give a reason for the de-banking, it's clearly politically motivated.
That's despite the fact The Canary had more or less just taken a standard democratic socialist / 2010's Corbynista type perspectives on issues, trying to provide an alternative to the other overwhelmingly right wing mainstream of UK News outlets. It was not what anyone could call "extreme", or communist, or anarchist by any stretch.
Prior to October 7th, Lloyds had invested in total over £43.2 billion in credit and loans to weapons, construction, and aerospace companies which supply the IOF and zionist West Bank colonists, and has since invested a further £3.9 billion in the Israeli genocide machine.
>>2935733The thread always starts well and then like clockwork it’s derailed into the most dull discussions about race and trans people. Genuinely the worst thread on this fucking website like why can’t we talk about actual UK politics not just idpol 24/7
>>2933491The lumpenproletariat does not excite me.
>>2933434>By what means is the competition dissolved?In the Hobbesian sense, by a truce of civil war, or constitutional government. I agree that in a fundamental sense there is a "war of all against all", but I think it is anti-social to give transparency to it, since as we see, the more one highlights differences (e.g. race, sex, etc.) the more there are conflicts in society. Friends have the benefit of humour, to quell any underlying aggression, but the "woke" people have no humour besides sadism against their opponents. It is not "play" in the friendly sense, so I cannot abide by it.
>"wokeness" as a floating signifier Basically, yes, but it's important to give concreteness to it.
I don't think it began in 2016, say.
>All culture is an artificial creation Yes, but not arbitrary. Culture cannot be whatever you want.
As an example, I would cite Freud. There must always be prohibition.
>You claim not to be here for point-scoring but the only reason to write in such a way is to score points instead of engaging with a post holistically.I apologise if I appear cynical, but it is not my intention.
We are hopefully playing with each other, not engaging in combat.
>>2935740>The lumpenproletariat does not excite me.I know you mean people that aren’t white when you say this because if you actually looked at the protests you’d see they were made up by plenty of proles
>>2935741>I know you mean people that aren’t white when you say this because if you actually looked at the protests you’d see they were made up by plenty of prolesDango, you all still love me, the one who makes the threads. Lol
>>2935741>they aren't whiteWhat do you mean? They are mostly white, aren't they?
Self-report moment.
And no, setting things on fire is not revolutionary behaviour.
You get that sort of direct action at the Reichstag.
Regular reminder that the common travel area allows you to get on a flight to Ireland today and never have to come back. Stay long enough and they give you Irish citizenship. That's an EU passport, so then you can waltz over to any of those countries of your choosing too.
Flee this sinking ship.
>>2935768I prsume you're posting from Ireland, then?
>>2935768My job involves UK-specific knowledge unfortunately…
>>2935737Because you're autistic retards who take the bait every time without exception.
>>2935803Okay. So shut the fuck up already if you won't even take your own advice.
>>2935768>Just go relocate to Ireland With what money dawg? Some of us can't afford to just move to a different country
>>2935872Ireland, famously with impossibly high rents and a high cost of living and unemployment.
'Just move somewhere 2x more expensive bro with no support or job lined up'
>>2935818Notice how I was replying to the original post not to you? Dumb fuck
>>29357703,000% justified.
>>2935768And live where?? The housing crisis in Ireland is worse than Britain.
>immigration
slashed
>refugees
deported
>reform
dying
>greens
dead
>total labor victory
guaranteed
>>2936431
This is good, we need to have this confrontation out in the open. We can't keep running and hiding from the Zionist filth.
>UK government approves new oil field (jackdaw) that'll no doubt come online during a price dip, which does nothing to meet domestic supply needs and isn't big enough to affect the world market
>their own modelling says it'll create just 27 jobs and protect just 270 jobs that would otherwise be lost
>Aberdeen University is sacking 440 people because we've decided to decimate one of our few competitive sectors (education) to pursue an arbitrary immigration target
>Even if you have an industry fetish, 400 jobs were lost closing our oil refinery at Grangemouth, and unlike oil extraction, refining is actually a useful strategic capacity
this country is so fucking dumb
There is no labour movement or socialist politics in the UK.
This has to be understood by everybody in the thread.
Sultana and Corbyn are both careerist parasites.
Novara Media is edited by religious conservatives.
Owen Jones is a neoliberal, etc.
>>2936465Jews have been doing this shit for decades and it just makes them more hated.
They could just do the right thing for a change, but that's impossible so instead they try to silence or brainwash us instead.
>>2936468>>2936598the only way I can explain it is that they want to create antisemitism, they need to be the 'oppressed chosen people' otherwise they have no raison detre. antisemitism is by far not the most rampant form of hate in the west so they will do anything in order to create it and to terrify themselves
Anybody affiliated with socialist parties in Britain care to share much of what's been happening around them recently?
>>2936626CPGB-PCC: still correct about most things but make themselves look too stupid to get any members (and claim they don't even want members anyway)
rs21: bureaucratic sect masquerading as multi tendency and democratic
SWP: seemingly trying to suck up to the liberal left with SUTR and similar projects
SPEW: no idea seems to be just focussed on selling papers and boring union shit
Spartacists: still being workerist and cringe
Socialist Federation: no idea if it even has any members at all
YP: complete joke, finally rolling out local branches 6 months after everyone stopped caring and left
Greens: the leadership are trying to dismiss the membership and elect a new one
YCL: self-destructing itself
>>2936630>finally rolling out local branches 6 months Oh I am laughing
>>2936635They're saying it might be the most pathetic political party of all time
>>2936637He's a political fossil
When he dies they'll collect his body and display it next to the other dinosaurs in the British Museum
>The UK’s Conservative Party has suspended former candidate Jack Ross after an Al Jazeera documentary showed him discussing ‘contract killers’ fees and offering to broker a far-right activist with alleged paramilitary links.https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/10/21/paramilitary-hitman-linked-to-british-right-wing-group-turning-point-ukParamilitary hitman linked to British right-wing group Turning Point UK<Al Jazeera exposes UK far right's links to criminal underworld.
>A violent paramilitary linked to a proscribed terror group has close ties to a right-wing student group in the United Kingdom, an Al Jazeera investigation has revealed.
>Allan Nesbitt, a convicted criminal who is a member of the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), is linked to Turning Point UK (TPUK).
>Our investigation, Contract Killers and the Far Right, began in 2021, when an undercover reporter from Al Jazeera joined TPUK, an independent offshoot of the right-wing US activist group Turning Point USA. TPUK has close ties to several senior British Conservative Party members, as well as to leaders of Reform UK.
>TPUK’s CEO Jack Ross stood as a Conservative Party candidate in 2023. Ross introduced Al Jazeera’s undercover reporter to Nesbitt, who is from Glasgow, Scotland.
>Ross made clear that he and Nesbitt had a long history together. Ross was filmed by our undercover reporter agreeing to pay Nesbitt thousands of pounds to stage a fake political rally designed to show support for the lifting of UK sanctions against Zimbabwe.
>Ross also told Al Jazeera’s undercover operative that for “a certain amount”, Nesbitt and his contacts could arrange physical attacks, saying they could “kick the f*** out of someone. They can start cutting people’s faces up. That’s another amount. They can stab someone,” Ross said. “They can shoot someone. They could kill someone.”
<Murder for hire, caught on tape
>To test Ross’s claims about Nesbitt, Al Jazeera’s undercover operative devised a story about a business dispute with a fictional rival they wanted “dealt with”.
>In a private meeting in a London hotel, Nesbitt told our reporters he could “arrange whatever you need done”, but “at a price”. This included killing the fictional person with the help of his UVF connections.
>“He can have a bad accident,” Nesbitt said, confirming to Al Jazeera that the person would be “finished”.
>“These c*s are terrorists. They’re f*ing trained killers,” Nesbitt added.
>Nesbitt also claimed to have personally killed before.
>“Things have happened in the past where it was too risky to do that [gestures firing a gun], and I’ve just pulled out a knife and stabbed the c*** to death,” he said.
>In a later video call, Nesbitt showed off a shotgun, a pistol, and live ammunition to prove he had the means to follow through.
<Weapons smuggling
>The money paid for the murder would be used to arm the UVF in Northern Ireland, Nesbitt said.
>“All the money gets raised in Scotland and the things get bought in Scotland and we smuggle them into Ireland.”
>According to Nesbitt, he has been involved in this weapons smuggling for many years.
>“It’s us that smuggled the stuff into Ireland for them to fight the war in there,” he said, referring to The Troubles.
>During that period, which began in the late 1960s, Catholic and Protestant groups in Northern Ireland fought over whether Protestant-majority Northern Ireland should remain part of the UK or join the Catholic-majority Republic of Ireland.
>Those in favour of Northern Ireland remaining a part of the UK are widely known as unionists or loyalists. Those seeking to break from the UK usually identify themselves as republicans or Irish nationalists.
>The UVF belonged to the Protestant loyalist side and was responsible for some of the most infamous killings and murders during The Troubles, according to Patricia Devlin, a journalist who has been investigating the group for years.
>“Between 1966 and 1999, the UVF killed over 500 people,” she told Al Jazeera.
>“They went on to commit atrocities such as the 1971 McGurk’s bar bomb massacre, which killed 15 people, and the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings, which killed 33 people”, she added.
>But after the 1998 Good Friday Agreement that at least officially ended the Troubles, the UVF, like many other groups, transformed into a more traditional criminal gang.
>“The movement has turned into drug gangs, while still using the name of the UVF,” Devlin said.
>To Roy McComb, former deputy director of the UK’s National Crime Agency, Nesbitt’s claims are no surprise.
>“The history of loyalism between Northern Ireland [and] Scotland is a very strong and very longstanding one.
>“Operationally, there’s certainly evidence previously of firearms being trafficked, of intelligence being shared, of activists being moved between the two countries [Scotland and Northern Ireland].
>“Firearms … are simply tools that can be sold and that could be sold onto the far right.”
<Far-right groups
>Besides links to the UVF, Al Jazeera’s investigation also shows links between Turning Point UK and other far-right agitators in the UK. These include groups that have been at the forefront of protests against migrants and LGBTQ+ rights.
>“Turning Point UK are fanboys of these kinds of people. These people are obviously a lot more physically tough than Turning Point UK. Turning Point UK know that they put these little, no far right allowed at the bottom just to protect themselves,” Ciaran O’Connor, senior analyst at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, told Al Jazeera.
>“They use these events as wedge issues upon which to try and mobilise their support and try and attack the message or the meaning of the other side, and demonise the housing of asylum seekers in society,” he added.
>A former member of the UVF told Al Jazeera that the “far right in the UK is a toothless tiger”, but links between the far right and groups like the UVF could change that.
>“It changes whenever you make a connection to individuals who are behind a terrorist campaign for probably 40 years, and are still armed, and still have the ability to shoot and bomb,” the former UVF member said.
>“Then you’re in trouble.”
>Al Jazeera notified Scottish police about Allan Nesbitt and his weapons in the interest of public safety.
>Jack Ross denied our findings “completely”, telling us that everything he said to our undercover reporter was not meant seriously.
>The other parties featured did not respond to our inquiries. >>2936647Wow, he's been suspended for offering to murder someone for hire, that will show him
>>2936614They like being the ultimate victim. They're really upset that people care more about what's happening to Palestinians than what's happening to jews.
>>2936452That's such faggot nonsense. He's literally lying.
When you ask any greens about their NATO position they talk about how it's the majority position of the public and that they need to meet the public where they are at.
Basically, greens are just telling Novara viewers what they think they want to hear.
>>2936657>Loyalist fag has loyalist tattoos<curiousIs it?
>>2936835I'm not well versed in this Anglo-Judaism. This flag is intentionally a hybrid right:
>>2936831 >>2936839>>2936836Well those flags are, but the six pointed star is also just a unionist symbol itself
>>2936847The Six Counties: The primary meaning of the six-pointed star within Northern Irish heraldry is to represent the six northeastern counties that make up Northern Ireland (Antrim, Armagh, Down, Fermanagh, Londonderry, and Tyrone). It was explicitly chosen to distinguish the region from the historic nine-county province of Ulster.
It was from 1924 so idk, it's possible it could be inspired by Judaism but seems mostly unlikely
>>2936862
They also polled like 2500 school students, 92 of them were Jews, like 98.5% of those (so everyone but one) said they had experienced antisemitism at their school, I guess I can believe that for a mixed school because everyone bullies everyone for anything, but aren't most of these kids at a Jewish exclusive school? But somewhat believable I guess, then the next question was "do you think there is an antisemitism crisis in schools", and like 89% of the Jewish students said yes to that, like based on what? Especially if they go a Jewish religious school how would they even know? Do they look at the armed guards and say "well surely there must be an antisemitism crisis in schools otherwise this would be insane"?
>>2936903Whenever a Jewish student hear that killing Palestinian babies is bad, they are experiencing antisemitism.
>>2936851British-Israelism was a popular among Ulster Protestants so I would not be surprised if it just came directly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism >>2936909Being disgusted at child murder is the oldest form of hatred
>>2937021>Bristol, College Green.Lmao. I almost feel sorry for whatever young internet fascist turns up to get absolutely battered.
Would be funnier if they chose this weekend in all honesty, because it's the anarchist bookfair. a shame.
Oi mate i'm andy burhnam i'm from madchester mate oim ceuwl fella i play the smiths on the guitar i shook hands with ian brown. I have heard leftypol have an antisemitism problem?
It’s like they’re actively trying to make you antisemetic by making all the sexual fantasies of /pol/ and the Okhrana material reality. Maybe that’s me being conspiracy brained.
>>2937219It's a very basic point ultimately. That stronger identitarian bonds and organisation across ethnic grounds form in the crux of oppression.
>>2937239It hits harder for me as I am sexually attracted to Ryan Gosling
I don't understand why people are so sympathetic to Caroline Flack. She attacked her boyfriend in a jealous rage while he slept, police found her covered in his blood and fully admitting the assault, she threatened to kill herself if they prosecuted her for it, they prosecuted, she killed herself. Like that's a situation entirely of her own making. But she was a celeb so "Oh it must've been so difficult for her to be charged with abuse like that, poor thing" and the suicide threat ("if you press charges I'll kill myself and my death will be your fault") aka revenge suicide is a CLASSIC abuser tactic but, well, again, she was a celeb, so it's "oooooh we need to have a conversation about mental health ooooh a national conversation oooooh so sad ooooh" what about the victim's mental health? Are we having a National Conversation about how he did literally nothing to create this situation but he's the one having to live with the survivor's guilt? Are we fuck.
>>2937254I don't read the papers or whatever, is anyone actually saying that?
>>2937259loll i thought they were saying 'i have a penis' the first time.
I bet their husbands are so fucking thrilled to be rid of these shrews for an evening
>>2937259would shag pink hair on the left with the black tee
>>2937254The main thing I've seen people complaining about is the media hounding her, rather than the police deciding to prosecute her.
And it is always time to have a national conversation about how the entire British media needs to be shut down and the earth beneath it salted, the salt that salted it salted again, then the salted salt itself subject to damnatio memoriae.
>>2937066
Good take on Novara
>>2937259The fuck is this shit
>>2937498<posting twitterIt's a whole Al Jazeera piece you gorm.
Theres no reason you needed to read this.
>>2937069Its funny how these people think Burnham is a scary guy who plans shit like this when he's a wet lettuce who said Tommy Robinson was an ordinary bloke with legitimate concerns
>>2938638
>but tens of thousands of teen girls in the North being trafficked, raped, got a whole "They're chav slags who were probably asking for it" and still no real response.
Still trying to push the "grooming gangs scandal?"
The English language itself is a barrier to class consciousness
British Broadcasting Corporation is really on a weird one. TERF captured institution.
Firstly the article they did claiming British trans women are all rapists (based on a single unsupported quote by an American lesbian pornstar who ran an anti-trans group), and then had to take down for being entirely false and baseless (they never apologised for it).
Note that there's not been a single reported crime by a trans person in a single sex space, ever, in the UK.
Then all the articles in support of British gender critical figures and court cases.
Not just the Darlington case, the did another one just a few days ago claiming a GP was being oppressed because she voluntarily quit under no pressure because she refused to treat people under 18 who identified as trans on ideological grounds.
Besides all of that, they're actually straight up editing out anything trans inclusive from the actual TV coverage.
Not just the "Protect the dolls" shirt that was censored by AI, but now they edited out pride pins off contestants on University Challenge, including regular non-trans gay pride pins.
So yeah it's not just about the trans any more either, they're censoring gay rights symbols too.
Add to that they've cancelled 3 TV shows about LGBT culture in the past few weeks too.
Not to mention they refuse to mention trans people at all without adding a remark about how they're BIOLOGICAL MALES, and one of their presenters did on air eye roll and refused to directly quote someone using the phrase "pregnant people".
>>2938758Why do you care?
>>2938764Why wouldn't they care?
The pogrom against trans people is defining politics at the margins.
>>2938767No its not, obviously
>>2938768Yes it is…
TERFs are teaming up with tories because of this single issue.
All the 'radicalism' is absorbed into wedges.
>>2938771No its not, this is a marginal issue for the people involved. Tories themselves are largely irrelevant. This is not a defining issue for anyone outside the bubble of that discourse.
>>2938774>its a marginal issueYes, and politics is determined by margins.
A TERF can believe all the right things, but will not compromise on the trans question, so is deranged into red-brown alliances. This is the issue. On the left it's the same for different reasons. You can believe in Communist economics, but be excluded because of other reasons.
>>2938778>politics is determined by marginsMarginal issue is not the same as marginal politics. And no politics is not defined by marginal issues. Marginal politics occasionally has outsized impact, but this is not typical
>A TERF can believe all the right things, but will not compromise on the trans question, so is deranged into red-brown alliances.There are very few self identified terfs in Britain, largely online phenomena. Women who I'd assume your referring to here, vote for refrom/tories at lower rates than men.
I'd suggest you delete your social media and this issue will largely disappear for you.
>>2938786Appeal to triviality doesnt work when they subverted the bibisi and can apparently halt NHS services on demand.
>>2938786But wouldn't you agree that the electorate basically believes in like, 95% of the same policies, and that things are decided at the margins? If we take the actual policies of Tories and Labour, there is hardly any real difference, besides rhetoric, and so rhetoric counts for most of the difference. Same with the LibDems or the Greens. Greens have the cause of Anti-Zionism, so are simply defined by this policy – despite Polanski himself ultimately being a moderate on the issue. But if I'm incorrect, what do you think substantially persuades elections? I think it is really small issues which become clustered around party lines.
>>2938794>But wouldn't you agree that the electorate basically believes in like, 95% of the same policies, and that things are decided at the margins? If we take the actual policies of Tories and Labour, there is hardly any real difference, besides rhetoric, and so rhetoric counts for most of the difference. Same with the LibDems or the Greens. Greens have the cause of Anti-Zionism, so are simply defined by this policy – despite Polanski himself ultimately being a moderate on the issue. But if I'm incorrect, what do you think substantially persuades elections? I think it is really small issues which become clustered around party lines.Then what does it matter if you're voting for the same exact party with only minor trivial differences. Why does it matter? Can you hear yourself?
>>2938796I don't vote, so I'm not prey to hypocrisy.
In light of the broader conversation, I would prefer a society which doesn't make people's inoffensive lifestyle choices a political question.
>>2938797Ok well you're saying the rhetoric around these trivial issues is important to the outcome of elections which I imagine is why you're trying to maximize rhetoric on /leftypol/
>In light of the broader conversation, I would prefer a society which doesn't make people's inoffensive lifestyle choices a political question.I would prefer a classless, stateless society.
>>2938802>important to the outcome of electionsI mean, voting is politics in practice.
If the verdict comes down to whether or not trans women ought to be permitted to use female spaces, votes will absolutely split on this. I think that politics shouldn't really have a say in the question itself. If a particular business wants to discriminate, that can be their policy, but they would only lose out from it.
>classless, stateless societyYou need a state to suppress classes, and you need classes to form the state. What does this utopian vision look like in practice?
>>2938794>electorate basically believes in like, 95% of the same policies,False
> Tories and Labour, there is hardly any real difference, besides rhetoricAlso False
>what do you think substantially persuades elections?Economics, as always Economics
Marxist perspective is to redirect political discussion towards ownership of production and property.
>>2938790Yes they trivially moved a trivial policy.
>>2938809
The “biological males” literally have different neurons but whatever
>>2938809Yes, it is inoffensive.
It's as inoffensive as female paedophiles being in the same proximity.
>>2938810>Economics, as always EconomicsYou're naive.
Let's say that there was a party that promised economic prosperity for the working class, but was also expressly pro-immigrant. Would the working class en masse vote for this party? For a total picture, let's say that there was a party which appealed to the middle class, and was anti-immigrant. Would this repel the working class? No. In fact, this is our exact landscape. The Greens are losing support while both Reform and Restore are gaining support. Also, what exactly are the real differences between the Tories and Labour?
>>2938814Essentialist twaddle.
>>2938816Imagine coming to a leftist space day after day to peddle your shit opinions and get banned constantly, only to come back the next day.
>>2938814>muh male and female soulsIdealist claptrap exposed as false years ago
>>2938815So you agree sexual predators shouldn’t have unrestricted access to women and young girls?
>>2938818I am the pro-trans poster in this thread:
>>2938815Being trans isn't an essential category, but is socially constructed.
I support people's rights to be experimental in their lifestyle.
>>2938820>So you agree sexual predators shouldn’t have unrestricted access to women and young girls?If someone is convicted of child abuse, I think they should be executed, personally. In any case, you can look up sexual assaults of trans women per capita against young girls. It will be less than the general female population, I'm sure.
>>2938821everything is socially constructed, you are a faggot, fuck off
>>2938824Everything is socially constructed, except magical gendered brains, I suppose. And yes, I do happen to be a faggot.
Anyway, I hope you have a nice saturday night.
>>2938823Now do males altogether rather than the specifically publicized bunch who identify as trans when convenient
>>2938829I know of a single case of a sexual predator in this country later identifying as transgender. I doubt there are many more. In any case, we are discussing those who identify and present as female – in your view – to give pretense to entering female toilets for the sake of assault. This would be premeditation, not post-hoc.
>>2938835But that’s the point, the only “difference” between a bloke and a TIM is what the bloke claims at the time. Almost like they’re still men even if the put on clown makeup and wear frocks
>>2938815Immigrations itself is a largely economic question, especially in the labour aristocratic first world.
It actually is a defining issue , unlike the gender debate.
The purpose of the marxist is to redirect to the economic.
>>2938838Sure – but statistics show that those who assume a trans identity are less likely than the cisgender male population to commit violent crimes. The question isn't whether they're "BIOLOGICAL MALES", its whether or not they're particularly sexually dangerous – I see no real evidence.
(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST) >>2938841Biological males, of which TIMs are included in, are overwhelmingly represented in violent crime and sex crime. Not women. MEN
>>2938840>immigration is an economic issueAre people against immigration for economic reasons?
No.
>>2938843Okay, so trans women are biological males.
This is still not evidence of their sexual criminality.
Show me statistics.
>>2938845>Are people against immigration for economic reasons?Yes, please explain the the anti-migrant attacks and riots in South Africa without this point.
>>293884598% of sex crimes are committed by men, 95% of violent crimes in general are committed by men. Trans Identified Males are still biologically men. Therefore TIMs are statistically just as likely as any other type of man to be a sexual predator towards women and young girls
Elections are where you buy the product that fits your disposition in the supermarket of ideology. The demography of SNP voters and Irn Bru drinkers overlaps.
Labour kneecapped itself under Starmer because it refused to use progressive rhetoric. Rhetoric is 95% of what you vote for. Sturgeon's SNP blundered the policy but nailed the rhetoric. Burnham is now doing better than Starmer because he runs the exact same policies but talks a good game.
Of course the media can fuck you up by associating you with things that undercut your brand. This is a managed democracy, but the underlying link between disposition and voting behavior is strong.
>>2938848That isn't how statistics work. That's like saying that because cows and tables both have 4 legs, tables eat grass.
>>2938850>Rhetoric is 95%This is incorrect.
>>2938853If actual policy was the important thing it would be impossible to explain how labour kept so much of their 2019 vote in 2024, only to then enter true freefall once in power.
>>2938848You cannot simply map the behavior of a subset of a population onto the whole in this fashion. Britain has a life expectancy of ~81 years. That doesn't mean the royal family, a subset of Britons, has a life expectancy of 81 years!
>98% of sex crimes are committed by men, 95% of violent crimes in general are committed by men. [Men who don't commit crimes] are still biologically men. Therefore [men who don't commit crimes] are statistically just as likely as any other type of man to be a sexual predator towards women and young girlsDo you see how dumb this is?
>>2938856>If actual policy was the important thing it would be impossible to explain how labour kept so much of their 2019 vote in 2024, only to then enter true freefall once in power.No it wouldn't. Actually that would be completely clear.
>>2938850>managed democracy and not dictatorship of the upper classI can smell the telegraph dripping off your Liberal nose
>>2938847We're not talking about SA, we're talking about the UK.
The reason people don't like immigration is due to racial intolerance.
This is what Maoists would see as a "primary contradiction", no?
>>2938848You are sound in your syllogism, that the general premise should determine the particular conclusion, but as we see, trans women do not follow expected trends of male violence, showing an empirical proof againat your deduction. Your hypothesis is given, but is proven to be false.
Its another retards argue with divorced 40 year old terf men talking to us because the kids won't return the calls episode
>>2938866All bourgeois democracies are dictatorships of their upper class. Britain is anomalous in going further and not allowing any real electoral choice between manager candidates. e.g. not just Corbyn but Sunak was never seriously an alternative to Starmer. Starmer was THE choice. Meanwhile in the US different factions genuinely split between Harris and Trump.
>>2938868>We're not talking about SA, we're talking about the UKWe are ,this why I brought it up please explain this phenomena
>>2938871You explain it to me.
I'm not familiar with the issue.
And I'm sure there are absolutely zero racial undertones to the issue.
>>2938848>>2938843>>2938841>>2938789>Then if all the "TERF"s disappeared they'd just lock arms to rally against "le patriarchy" or cisheteronormative monogamy whatever word salad.See what I mean? This whole TERF vs T debate is all a debate of how to best hate men.
TERFs are like:
>"Transwomen are still men, so they are worthy of all the same scorn" Non-TERF feminists and Ts are like:
>"No, transwomen aren't men so hating them is unfair!"What about hating transmen? If transwomen are immune from the "all men are rapists" and what not does that mean transmen are included?
>>2938816>Essentialist twaddle.>>2938820>Idealist claptrap exposed as false years agoTERFs are themselves biological essentialists, but in an anti-scientific direction, believing the shape of genitalia at birth is the only thing that matters in regards to sex and gender.
What exactly, on the other hand is "essentialist" about simply accepting the proven science?
The biological facts are indeed the facts no matter how angry you get about them or how at odds with your gender critical doctrine it is.
You dismiss "male and female brains" as false but provide zero evidence to support your claim. That's because it's a purely ideological claim at odds with all the available scientific evidence.
If there's no difference between male and female brains, and that claim isn't just a TERF invented pseudo-scientific ideological (essentially religious) belief, then provide the scientific evidence in favour of it.
To date, no TERF has ever presented to me any papers proving male and female brains are the same. That's because their ideological claim, regardless of how much they repeat it isn't backed by science.
The opposite is in fact true. The scientific fact is men and women do have different brain structures and brain chemistries.
I believe that for some reason TERFs twist this in their own heads to imply (incorrectly) the science is saying womens brains are inferior.
And therefore to accept this would be "anti-feminist", and therefore they feel motivated to reject the science on emotional grounds.
Hence they mock an oversimplified concept of "male and female brains" as if it sounds so outlandish and misogynistic to be rejected with a wave of the hand.
But that's not the case at all. Both male and female brains have the same quantity of neurons and intellectual capacity. It's just structured in slightly different ways.
Dozens of published scientific papers have proven that gender dysphoria is essentially caused by having intersex biology of various brain structures, which of course is only possible because there is well documented differences in male and female brains.
And we can therefore detect that the brains of gender dysphoric individuals have structures that are physically somewhere between the male and female norms.
I'll link some of the evidence here:
>Mueller et al., 2021 - The Neuroanatomy of Transgender Identity>Manzouri et al., 2017 - Structural connections in the brain in relation to gender identity and sexual orientation>Guillamon et al., 2013 - A Review of the Status of Brain Structure Research in Transsexualism >Zubiaurre-Elorza et al., 2013 - Cortical thickness in untreated transsexuals >Luders et al., 2009 - Regional gray matter variation in male-to-female transsexualism>Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab, 2008 - Sexual differentiation of the human brain in relation to gender identity and sexual orientation>Kruijver et al., 2000 - Male-to-female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus >Zhou et al., 1995 - A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexualityAnd so, to be a TERF is to reject all of the above science in favour of the essentialist woo that somehow males and females are inherently, platonically, spiritually different beings and fully determined by what box was ticked on the birth certificate.
But also somehow despite believing this, that both sexes are innately spiritually different, the TERF must also believe both sexes also have identical brains.
Gender criticalism is pure idealism and religious fantasy on par with flat eartherism in terms of the mental gymnastics required to reject the science.
Meanwhile trans identity is backed up by countless papers by respected biologists.
Regardless of what you think of trans people or the significance of the debate about trans rights, if you understand this, you understand why this issue is so important.
Because it means our institutions, politicians, media have been captured by an ideology (gender critical ideology) which to sustain itself has to be directly at odds with a growing body of scientific literature.
If rejection of science and reality becomes acceptable for ideological grounds on one specific contentious topic, then why not others? Where does it end?
Gender critical thought is very much a slippery slope, an opening of the gates, for other ideological pushes at odds with the proven science to become the state's position.
If that can happen, if Reform win, what's to stop them from bringing back eugenics and race science to the mainstream?
Because the gender criticals will have paved the way for pseudo-scientific ideology that rejects the proven scientific literature.
>>2938926Fwiw I also think this is why far right evangelical groups in the US like the Heritage Foundation directly fund and astroturf British anti-trans groups like the LGB Alliance.
It's laying the groundwork for the broader normalisation of the acceptance of reactionary ideology which rejects science and evidence outright.
>>2938856>If actual policy was the important thing it would be impossible to explain how labour kept so much of their 2019 vote in 2024, only to then enter true freefall once in power.False
Labour lost a quater of its vote since 2019. Very easy to explain. Its lost about a since the election. Both easy to explain through policy.
>>2938926NTA but gendering brains is nothing more than modern-day phrenology. You cannot ascertain the difference between brain development determining socialization and socialization determining brain development and since gender appears to be culturally transmitted, i'm certainly biased in favor of the latter or in other words "gender dysphoria causing brain differences".
>>2938934If there’s zero difference between a male and a female brain that means hormone treatment makes you a biological female
>>2938933I've better things to do than set out my case in depth to a parrot
watching Threads again, if you must know so: the end result of your line of thinking is Blairism. Always compromise rightwards on policy because that's where the majority is. Reform+Tories are ahead of Labour+Greens, so give the people what they want!
My view explains why this doesn't work. It's like trying to sell English Irn Bru, fundamentally at odds with how the brand is seen. Yours cannot explain why this would flop: the taste is the same!!! It also cannot explain the success of something like the Sturgeon SNP which was dire in basically all policy areas - even and especially the apparent get out of jail free card of independence - but crucially, they played it off with good marketing. Social democratic aspirations cover for a lot of incompetence in a social democratic polity! Talking a lot about independence is, in fact, good cover for doing nothing practical to secure it! >>2936465>Sir David Bellhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bell_(university_administrator)This guy? His list of achievements is shutting down A, B, C; increasing fees for X, Y, Z. In a word: efficiency.
>>2938945>I've better things to do than set out my case in depth to a parrot watching Threads again, if you must know so: the end result of your line of thinking is Blairism. Always compromise rightwards on policy because that's where the majority is. Reform+Tories are ahead of Labour+Greens, so give the people what they want! Aren't you the anon saying you don't vote? How does boycotting the vote bourgeois elections matter if you put more thought and effort into strategizing for these parties than a paid political consultant?
>>2938945False , the impact of policy matters, not rhetoric alone. You cannot set out your case because it's illogical
>>2938936Congratulations on earning the "I don't understand what terms mean" award
>>2938970- Their success isn't built purely on a policy of independence. They won in 2007 by being left of Labour (both in rhetoric and in policy, so a draw) they were banging on about independence since the 1930s but it took until the 70s for them to look serious and until 2007 for them to be truly relevant. Clearly, a lot more was going on.
- If their base is as simple as "independence" this makes things worse for policyheads: the SNP has made no serious attempts to advance this policy since 2014. There has been quite literally zero serious strategy for securing independence. If their success is merely "independence" then it is their rhetorical advocacy for independence that is the vote winner, not the implementation of any real policy to bring it closer.
Were the UK government to concede a referendum now or at any point post 2017 the SNP would panic.
Meanwhile across a range of other public services the SNP had run a grotesquely incompetent administration. The only thing to commend in it is that they have never stopped presenting themselves as centre left, while Labour love to bow down to right wing rhetoric.
(The ferry scandal is platonic Sturgeonism: she rushed the whole thing for photo ops and let the pro-privatisation CMAL bugger up the specifications of the ship and bankrupt a Scottish shipyard because she wanted to get a photo op in. She had the ship launched with painted on windows to get another photo op in. Terrible terrible policy! But it looked good at the time!! Contrast Starmer, who looked like a cunt even before day 1.)
You use marketing to sell policy, not policy as marketing
>>2938926You are James Damore.
>>2938926>TERFs are themselves biological essentialistsGender-critical feminists don't think someone likes pretty dresses or the colour pink because of brain chemistry. And biology is real, so describing "biological essentialism" is a tautology. A transgender person is only transgender by the terms of their own culture – that is the difference.
>You dismiss "male and female brains" as false Yes, because of the implication that stereotypes are fixed in the brain.
>gender dysphoria Gender dysphoria also occurs within cisgender individuals.
Body dysmorphia is really gender dysphoria, is it not?
The striving to become a "real man" portrays a primary alienation.
>to be a TERFI'm not a TERF because I'm neither trans-exclusionary or a feminist.
>Gender criticalism is pure idealismAs opposed to thinking that gender identity is a hardwired fact?
As another anon said, you're sublimating a theology of the soul.
Don't dismiss idealism if you are implicated by it.
>trans identityYou're terribly reductive. Know this:
- (i) you can be dysphoric without being trans
- (ii) you can be trans without being dysphoric
That is all.
>>2938935Biological sex is determined by chromosomes, not hormones.
>>2938929I already spoke of the pink-brown alliance.
But it's not a scientific question, its a political question.
The contention is whether or not we are self-governing; the idea that we need the state to intervene on behalf of civil issues is anti-English by the terms of common law. You can watch the same absurdity of banning transgender people from their preferred toilets in this story:
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/kansas-trans-men-protest-state-s-bathroom-law-by-following-it-271735365829The point isn't to make women safer (e.g. as I have sufficiently shown by citing a lack of evidence of transgender assaults), it's to punish everyone. I describe this in more detail in the last thread on the failure of "woke", as a jurisprudential concept. Managerialism is just statism, and the state is anti-social.
>>2938933You never got round to explaining why immigration is a bigger issue to the working class than wealth equality btw. What is the Marxist answer?
the fundamental question is this: do you have the right to do with you want with your own body? do you have the right to self-author your own life?
transgenderism is the most explicit vanguard of the position: yes, yes, yes. TERFism says: no, no, no. other people need to approve what you want to do with your own body, and we say no. other people have the right to dictate the terms of your life, and we say no. you have to be defined by choices you didn't make and circumstances you don't like.
this is the basic underlying divide in politics today. it covers everything. should you be condemned to live in your shithole town with people you don't get along with, or should you go to university and then from there leap somewhere else and ditch the fuckers? well, let's see here… hmm, the same people who hate transgenderism also tend to be hostile to the woke youth and their university "indoctrination" - odd! what's their view on increased diagnoses of conditions like ADHD and Autism, which give you a label for problems you might suffer and open up avenues to changing those conditions with medication (ADHD) or adaptations (Autism)? oh, that's right, it's hostile again. what else? people ghosting their parents? hmm, should who you talk to be determined by you, or by biological relations you had no say in? i can't imagine where the chips will fall!!
everything is talking around this because on the one hand, like with homosexuality, conceding that you could socially engineer away most transgender people. (all you have to do is blow up the internet so the material conditions that reduce the social costs and information barriers to transition no longer exist) or at least their behaviour, and on the other it's too brutish to concede that you hate the choices other people make and want them all taken away while (invariably) thinking you yourself should retain free choice.
TIRF
>>2939264An important point on the bathroom thing is that nowhere in British law are public toilets required to be single sex. That has always been a social convention enforced by the store manager's property right to trespass you. As a matter of employment law, it was legislated that you need single sex
employee toilets, but the law has never interfered on public ones.
The current supreme court guidance now creates the awkward case where the state's administrative bodies go "oh, the law says this" but you can look and look and the law simply does not say that, except by the awkward means that if someone sues you you'll possibly lose on procedure for not following administrative guidance that is not, itself part of legislation.
Even then it's obviously untrue in practice: go to any supermarket loo right now and odds are you'll see a sign saying "these toilets may be cleaned by staff of either gender". The state may make a power grab on what customers can do, and firms will grumble and find a way to make it work, but on something like that where you're really fucking around it is quite literally business as usual.
Feminist exclusive radical transsexual
>>2939268While I was in secondary school (c. 2010–2014) we had unisex toilets with separate stalls and there wasn't any issue or confusion. People act like segregating toilets is necessary to stitch civilisation together. The proceduralisation of public life I see as an American cancer. The supreme court's very existence is a Republican import which has no place in the British constitution. Brexit has only made us more servile to our American colonisers, who are now sinking the ship.
>>2939266Right; individualism is at the crux of this political struggle.
The issue is that people think you become independent by the state separating you from society, when individuality requires responsibility. It is a struggle to leave your small village or town, but its worth it for many. In British life there can even be the charm of "the only gay in the village". Not every cosmopolitan is a bourgeois, etc.
>>2939273
If you don't like how this website runs you're free to go use another socialist space where transphobia is accepted. Oh wait there are none because it's totally corrosive to actual leftism.
>>2939281>noob who doesn't know about leftychan.net>>2939285You are angry at TRAs, but are you tolerant of trans people themselves? You are not actually hateful of them, are you?
>>2939288
>mentally ill
Mentally ill or just unphilosophical?
You are describing a failure of metaphysics in "gender ideology", so if it was articulated differently, the same feelings may remain (which of themselves cannot be a pathology, anymore than homosexuality is), but may be treated differently.
>I am being forced to participate in a sexual fetish I did not consent too, it also is forced onto children
I feel that this to far too overstated.
What participation do you have in all this.
And for children, do you also think that teaching homosexuality in schools makes kids gay?
>AGP
AGP is a Blnachardian typology opposed to HSTS.
What do you think about HSTS?
>little boys that they're actually "Eggs" if they like playing with dolls.
Well this is also a reflexive homophobia found in hetero-patriarchal conceptions of gender found in certain transgender doctrines – this is why I have sought to separate gender expression from identity. The argument of gendered brains is that they're the same, but as you know with AGPs, they're often opposite.
>My problem with all of this is TERFS and TRAs and Trans and Feminists are all talking past each other.
I agree – that's why I said in the last thread that they're both "woke" and thus incite a civil war to claim greater priority as a managerial client class. I am just cautious whether or not you are also talking past real individuals and person to engage in desublimating mobbery.
>>2939285
You are anti materialist. You imagine transgenderism arises from a conspiracy of perverts corrupting children rather than from an underlying material cause. You later compare trans people to schizos but that just doesn't wash: you don't imagine a conspiracy of schizos going around corrupting young people into becoming future schizophrenics and use that to explain why normal kids sometimes lose it as adults.
Your approach to gender is the same: just click your heels three times and make it go away.
You say you have no problem with guys wearing dresses. Setting aside that this contradicts your earlier objection that would constitute being forced to participate in a fetish you didn't consent to: Fine. Why do you have a problem with them taking estrogen, changing their names, and so on. What's it got to do with you?
What does any of this have to do with socialism.
>>2939294Why is the UK working class anti-immigrant?
>>2939294You cannot disentangle things neatly
>>2939295The UK "working class" has been voting Tory for 200 years. They are the most servile bootlickers to have ever lived on Earth. Their own culture jokes about it - they call it "a stiff upper lip" meaning when the going gets tough they just stand and endure it but really if you think about it for more than 5 seconds, all it means is that when they're getting sodomized by their ruling elites they try not to scream and pretend like getting raped is an achievement because they didn't react too hard to it.
>>2939300>The UK "working class" has been voting Tory for 200 years.What are you on about?
The working class have been Labour loyalists til around 2021.
And I suppose your quotation marks is to connote that a working class isn't actually working class if you disagree with them. Absurd.
>they're getting sodomized by their ruling elitesYou mean like every working class on earth?
What's so different in the British case as in others'?
>>2939300>>2939304Define working class or you'll talk past one another
If you mean the British caste that's very different to if you mean the Marxist class.
The caste has been more Labour loyal historically but is now ditching the left, the class has been more Tory historically but is now drifting left. Hence why politics is now divided by age and education. >>2939315The working class are people who live from earning a wage.
>abandoning the leftOnly so far as the left is pro-immigrant.
The working class don't want free markets or private healthcare.
>>2939317You simply don't know what you're talking about.
That is all.
>>2939318>Refuses to accept defeat after having been BTFO by cold hard statistics.I accept your concession.
>>2939318>The working class don't want free markets or private healthcare.They had ample opportunity to demonstrate that by voting for Corbyn over Bojo. Guess who they chose? How long until you admit that Anglos are fucking scumbags born to worship billionaires, who don't "deserve" anything other than a nuclear holocaust?
>>2939321This is why I say that immigration is a primary contradiction.
If Corbyn (the well-known Eurosceptic) led a pro-Brexit platform he would have won.
>>2939319Which region of the country do you live in?
You seem out-of-touch.
>>2939318If the working class is people in employment then the Tories electoral dominance reflected their genuine will up to ~2017. Then Tories became the pensioner lumpen party.
>>2939324>If Corbyn (the well-known Eurosceptic) led a pro-Brexit platform he would have won.Retarded cope. Starmer was the biggest booster of the second referendum nonsense and Corbyn was the most pro-Brexit member of the entire Labour party, and yet Starmer was rewarded by the electorate with an actual majority election win and government while Corbyn was left adrift without anything at all and even eventually outright expelled from Labour. This is proof that immigration doesn't actually matter and that the mindless proles go along with whatever the right wing media tell them to.
>>2939331The keyword here is mindless, not proles. Corbyn won educated voters by Blair numbers in 2019, but lost because idiots didn't vote for him. (Labour got 25% of the vote with the least educated)
This is doubly ironic given the antisemitism smear campaign was mostly targeted at educated voters.
(And this is a recentish change. In 2015 education had basically no impact on voting behaviour.)
>>2939325At least in the 30-year period of 1987–2017, "low income" voters have always expressed majority support for Labour, as shown here:
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/about-us/news-and-media/latest-news/who-do-the-working-classes-vote-forData source:
https://www.jrf.org.uk/public-attitudes/low-income-voters-in-uk-general-elections-1987-2017>>2939331Corbyn was entirely hesitant and failed to discipline his party.
>immigration doesn't matter.Brexit was a vote based purely on immigration concerns.
The rise of Farage and Lowe is based purely on immigration concerns
>right-wing mediaIf right-wing media said NHS privatisation was necessary, would people go along with it? No.
>>2939337>lost because idiots didn't vote for himEducation ≠ intelligence
There are plenty of thick students.
>>2939346>NHS is LITERALLY PRIVATISEDNo it isn't. Calm down, lad.
>progressiveI never claimed the working class was "progressive" since that term doesn't actually denote anything. The discussion began on a question of why seemimgly marginal issues sway elections – immigration being the key policy for the working class. No Marxist answer has yet been put forward as to why.
>>2939348I hope you get into a horrible accident so that when you're shoved into a private hospital and given subpar care or even a botched surgery you can cope with your Stiff Upper Lip over how private capital taking over the healthcare system "wasn't technically privatization", you disingenuous semantic arguing fuckface.
>>2939350Oh right, I only just noticed your yank spelling of "privatised".
Well, no bother, I understand that you are upset because you were circumcised as a baby and then given SSRIs at 10 years-old, but there's really no need to project your anger onto another country than your own. We can get on well without your criticism. Now, don't accidentally catch a stray bullet from a school shooting, today.
>>2939351I was born in a British colony dipshit. My computer was imported from America so it enforces American spelling.
But really this is just further proof to my point: That's all you smug wankers are good for - jerking yourselves off over how great of a quip you just came up with, because you can never actually argue the actual facts. You have to drag everything down to personal insults since that's all you lot are ever known for.
You don't care the NHS was ruined. You don't care the Conservatives won the vast majority of electoral contests. You don't care about anything and when proven wrong, rather than manning up and admitting something was wrong with your analysis, you descend into insufferable classist wankery.
I already know that if we had held this conversation in person, when you realized that you lost the argument, you would have immediately switched to criticizing my accent relentlessly for not being posh enough. Kill yourself.
>>2939354>the actual factsOkay, so what are the actual facts?
That the working class will believe whatever it says in the Daily Mail, National Express, The Sun and on the British Broadcasting Corporation? Is that your grand theory?
It is reductive of a materialist understanding of psychology.
As another anon wrote, pensioners make up a part of the electorate, and tend to be more right-wing than the general electorate. You are seeming to pick on one group and blame all problems on them.
>>2939338Low income includes state pensioners + unemployed and excludes medium income workers / proles.
>>2939370Ad hominem, name calling, no answer in sight!
>>2939364
>Both
Question: are religious people mentally ill?
>Gender Dysphoria is a cultural bound syndrome
It's at least milennia old, as we see in ancient accounts.
>The fact I'm giving a dude "gender euphoria" by engaging in his fetishism?
What? Where? How many transgender people have you actually encountered in real life? You also never answered whether or not teaching homosexuality in school thereby induces homosexuality. By comparison, how are children being groomed by transgender activists?
>I don't buy into blanchardian typology
Yet you're using the term AGP? Confusion.
>massive expansion of gender expression
But a woman having a penis goes too far, I suppose?
>the left
The working class has never really been "left-wing" or "right-wing"
These are autistic and clumsy taxonomies for political ideologies.
>>2939339There are, but education creates a minimum floor. You can't doss a Mickey mouse degree if you're actually illiterate. There's a selection effect.
(Alternatively, it's something in disposition. E.g. say education is of no intellectual value but some choose to pursue it and some don't, and then that underlying disposition is also reflected in political views… But the views of the educated generally seem smart even when they're wrong, and the views of the uneducated are generally stupid even when they're right…)
>>2939373I just wouldn't call the uneducated "idiots" like you already have.
>>2939371Go away mumsnet tourist you're not welcome here
>>2939365
It's up to the discretion of the establishment.
If they want to exclude male-sexed persons, that ought to be their right. Then again, it ought to be a right otherwise.
>>2936445
I agree, Jewish religious supremacy is problematic for pluralism and tolerance.
What's going on with Novara? I know everyone dunks on them but what for?
I haven't watched their shit for many many years so I'm out of the loop.
>>2939374Their idiocy can be derived from their not voting from him. Being uneducated is just a correlate of the two.
>>2939384They started to shit the bed when people said zionism is racism
Is there any particular reason the British state have endorsed a Jewish supremacist ideology that they feel the need to enforce at home? They never feel the need to talk this way about Unionists in the occupied six counties despite having an exact replica role. In fact, Unionists are mocked and scorned even by tories and imperialists, but Jews are to be worshipped and shown deference. They might as well replace the Anglican church with Noahidism.
>>2939466Isn't Ed Davey even more of this sort of archetype?
>>2939466I would honestly prefer Jeffrey Epstein as PM instead of this cuckold.
>>2939440There's the obvious blackmail and bribery angle but also there's something psychologically deeper. I can't put my finger on it. But they spread their cheeks for jews enthusiastically. Don't know why though.
>>2939466His whole brand of making tiktoks rambling about wathever madchester band from 30 years ago he likes in every video while the wobblemeat matrons and that dysgenic PrEPgolem actually run (badly) the country is so ridiculous and forced.
Ian Brown should get his monkey looksmaxxer ass out of the couch and tell him to shut the fuck up about music we litteraly don't give a shit mate. I don't know how the lad don't feel humiliated by the situation.
Oi mate didya know the stone roses is really the greatest band in all of ingerland i hope you havent been antisemitic today lad?
>>2939602>I don't know how the lad don't feel humiliated by the situation.Fuck me can you imagine. Probably would KMS rather than suffer it.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews has declared that the Greens are a "racist party".
That's a label they haven't applied the Restore, Reform, or anyone else.
>>2939676Fuck em. Like I've been saying this fight needs to be out in the open
>>2939704By that logic the house of commons is just 650 people
>>2939745One is an elected chamber the other is just some random Zionist pressure group
People are now already dying because of the government's new anti trans laws.
A 27 year old trans woman, Joelle, had an aggressive lymphoma that is almost always curable when treated as a medical emergency.
But because she was trans, she was told my the Wolverhampton NHS trust that she couldn't go on either the women's ward or the men's ward.
And that therefore as a consequence she couldn't receive treated until a private room was made available.
As a result of this policy she died of the cancer 16 days later, having been denied any access to medicine or any pain relief by the NHS precisely because of this new policy about trans people, even though they could've probably saved her life if she was just allowed onto literally any ward.
So yeah, when trans say you're literally killing us in the UK it's not hyperbole. People are dying because bored billionaire TERFs want to wage some ideological war on twitter and have nothing else in their lives to do.
There's going to be vigils in lots of cities this coming Friday about the case but to be honest I'm extremely doubtful any mainstream media will cover this story.
>>2940079Despicable, litteral criminals and half-dead gammons are treated better. Even SA blacks during appartheid had better medical access.
You are giving too much importance to Rowling and not enough to Labour and the "radfem occupied" left-infrastructures that championed such policies or offerred no resistance because saying "no" to any woman is a hate crime. Elon is far more rich and important than JKR and hates trans people, yet wasnt able to have his way.
I don't know if UK have anything like this but transgenders should remove themselves from organ donors list/blood donation/other altruistic bullshit etc. Do not participate in this travesty to help people that did nothing as you face worse-appartheid.
Healey's increasing the minimum wage
Fucking screaming as it cuts into service sectors costs in which labour overheads are the substantial burden, and will force prices upwards for small businesses
Likewise he's trying to force growth during a period of higher inflation and growing transport costs with the threat of a global recession. The government are trapped between not being able to afford a rise to a livable wage and maintaining a labour price below average, meaning any move they make will never seriously outstrip year on year inflation
Likewise Burnham has at most three years to find in his budget enough for defence spending counted against social care costs and his council house initiative
All of which is predicated on condition of escalation due with Trump as per Iran. Likewise Russia and strikes to its oil refineries
>>2940413service sector*
Getting rid of this stupid phone soon for an upgrade as finally had my PIP and LCWA approved by the DWP
>>2940413The council house initiative is the icing on the cake, as it is simply a vision for a ten year residency by Labour who have ruled out a coalition with the Greens
Parliament is sinking into a quagmire it is helpless to escape, as the most realistic opposition proposals are predicated on simply slashing taxes now to avoid necessary yet painstaking increases in capital composition
And all of this is built atop the magic space rocket of AI valuation and equity funding
>>2940413Anything but building more council houses
>>2940413>Healey's increasing the minimum wageIt's so retarded. Minimum wage across all age cohorts has increased almost 50% since 2020. Its now a viable strategy to just sit working some low-skill minimum wage job and expect an above inflation pay rise each year. Meanwhile medium income earners are getting fucked both ways with wage stagnation and income tax bracket freezes.
>>2940553you might not like it but this is what actually existing socialism is
>>2939443Money + ingroup purity test among the elite to keep out "trots" and rabble rousers and people with a moral conscious.
Look, MP's are fucking retarded, they have eyes, brains, can see what Israel is doing, the mass murder, terrorism, censorship, genocide, but for the MP, for the British media cunt, they also know, that Zionism and Israel is something you need to signal your loyalty to, to keep your job, your career, your house in Hampstead, to be able to go eat at Fallow or the Fat Duck every weekend.
I had friends who were climate activists, and then went to work for mining/oil companies due to their engineering, geology, archaeology degrees and became your typical climate change denying fossil fuel shills pushing Fracking and Carbon Capture and Use. The average person will always choose a comfortable life over their morality.
Zionism is a great ingroup signifier and purity test as well, the Left hates it, Anti-Imperialists hate it, Zionist backers are rich billionares, finance, magic circle law etc. So each of these MPs, each of these ""Journalists"" will happily virtue signal for Israel and Zionism, to show their loyalty to the ingroup, which may result and often does result, in further patronage.
It also doesn't hurt them the left are fucking RETARDED and never bother to play the Lawfare game back at the Zionists, MPs, Media. Victims of their harssment don't even hit the Zionist orgs like CAA, CST or media outlets like Telegraph, Times, British Broadcasting Corporation etc or parties like Labour with SARs.
>>2940685- The left aren't retarded, they're poor. You can't wage lawfare on zero budget
- Even if you could, the judicial system is fundamentally tilted against you. It'll smack you with costs for both parties and ruin your life even though you obviously have a case and it'll force you to pay your own costs even when someone suing you is clearly being vexatious.
>But sometimes people win!If loaded dice come up your way 25% of the time, you'd still be a fool to play with them.
>>2940404It's true though.
>>2940702Plenty average activists are poor, but MPs, media types, Anti-Zionist orgs, and political parties like the Greens, should be far more litigious. Corbyn should have sued fellow Labour Mps and the media into oblivion.
>Even if you could, the judicial system is fundamentally tilted against you.In the way of costs and dragging out cases sure, but you'll be surprised how easily Zionists fall apart in the courts and how shit like the IHRA definition gets torn to shreds. There is a reason Miller won easily when he went to court.
There is also a bunch of shit the Left should be doing, campaigns of complaints to OFCOM against the British Broadcasting Corporation, SAR's to try get out the info on how outlets like the Telegraph interwork with the CAA, Betar etc.
>>2939443The British Rothschild clan might actually be more powerful than the British crown, not sure about this though. Anyway, they command over insane wealth and influence in world affairs and European politics in particular since a long long time, which makes every aspiring bourgeois liberal or conservative mainstream politician or media person automatically submit to their interests in order to be able to climb up the social ladder a step or two. And that's not only true for the UK but for the entirety of Western Europe. Macron for example is a literal Rothschild banker. Also, the British crown created Israel basically as a pet for the Rothschilds in 1917 via the Balfour declaration.
>>2940727>RothschildsA Napoleonic phenomenon which was already losing power by the late 19th century. Both Bauer and Marx esteem the power of them in the early 1840s, but by 1890, Engels sees that they are outcompeted:
<In North America not a single Jew is to be found among the millionaires whose wealth can, in some cases, scarcely be expressed in terms of our paltry marks, gulden or francs and, by comparison with these Americans, the Rothschilds are veritable paupers. And even in England, Rothschild is a man of modest means when set, for example, against the Duke of Westminster. Even in our own Rhineland from which, with the help of the French, we drove the aristocracy 95 years ago and where we have established modern industry, one may look in vain for Jews.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1890/04/19.htmThis is why its difficult to directly trace power to the Rothschilds. Even another Jewish financier, George Soros, is more influential – and he made his billions betting against the Bank of England. Soros too, as a follower of Karl Popper, is not affiliated with the Zionist network.
>>2940736It's funny how it always only takes a couple minutes after they're mentioned, regardless of where you are online or in IRL, until someone comes out of the woodwork to claim that the Rothschilds are irrelevant today and a mere shadow of former glory. Meanwhile it is the outspoken policy of the clan to not disclose any information on their wealth and involvement in world affairs. Just like the american Rockefeller clan, who are equally rich or even richer and similarly powerful. However if you follow western politics and economics for years the name Rothschild or assets linked to them have a tendency to pop up in the vicinity of the most important economic and geopolitical events and hot spots. Soros is reportedly closer to the Rockefellers (not Jewish) than to the Rothschilds though. He's a multi billionaire oligarch himself, however his accumulated assets dwarf in comparison to the top elite oligarchs like Rockefeller's (BlackRock, JP Morgan Chase etc,) so that might explain why he is not such a die hard zionist. The fact that he attacked the Bank of England, which is linked to the Rothschilds, and that he is a neoliberal bourgeois imperialist and anti-communist of the worst order but at least not a racist and not a Jewish suprematist, might also explain why his name doesn't sit so well with zionists.
Epstein claimed to be a Rothschild representative and boasted that they still have the most elite but extremely "conservative" customer base in the world, which only can mean that they still are the bankers of the monarchs, aristocrats and richest western bourgeois, maybe they give financial advise to the church and christian knight's orders as well, who knows. Their old finance business itself, which they still operate, comes with incredible political influence plus the ability to gather intelligence at the top level of European class society. They have historically used this to their advantage and there is no reason to believe that they dropped their habits for no reason at all. Additionally, they founded the London School of Economics which is the biggest incubator of neoliberal and reactionary politicians, imperialist think tank glowies and embedded imperialist "journalists" in Europe. LSE breeds neoliberal glowies like crazy and if you have the displeasure of dealing with a particular disgusting neolib chances are he or she is an LSE alumni.
>>2940795The burden of proof is on you to prove that Rothschilds have political relevance in the world today – as far as I see, they don't. We can look at the Balfour Declaration in 1913 as a smoking gun as to their involvement in the British Mandate for Palestine, linking them to the Zionists, but not all Jews were ever Zionist, and today, not all Zionists are Jews. Without the Anglosphere, there would be no Israel. For some perspective, Cromell admitted Jews back into England while he was enslaving Irish Catholics; Puritan philosemitism is quite old.
>>2940795Usually even mentioning the Red Shields and their stranglehold over finance capital causes the mods to immediately ban you for “antisemtism” even though they’re objectively the major power behind imperialism and have been for 200 years
>>2940820You're not getting banned. Stop playing the victim.
>they’re objectively the major power behind imperialism and have been for 200 yearsPlease povide the "objective" evidence for this.
If you can't, you have to admit that you fell for it again.
>>2940802>enslaving Irish CatholicsBig, if true (it's not)
>>2940802>as far as I see, they don't.Well, then you can't see very far, i'm afraid. Actually my previous post was enough as a starting point for doing some own research.
>Balfour Declaration as a smoking gun as to their involvement in the British Mandate for Palestine, linking them to the Zionists,It is literally written black on white in the declaration. The British Rothschilds founded modern Israel.
>but not all Jews were ever Zionist, and today, not all Zionist are JewsTrue. But all zionists are Jewish suprematists and racists, including being hostile toward non-zionist jews.
>Without the Anglosphere, there would be no IsraelIt's true for the current state of affairs and the past 100 years for sure. Doesn't mean that Israel needs the Anglosphere as main donor and golem forever. Bourgeois EUrocrats are eager to humiliate themselves infront of zionists and put Erze Israel's interests first, just like bourgeois mainstream anglos.
You hate Rothschilds because you saw a shitty edited image on /pol/
I hate Rothschilds because I saw their own tweets in support of Fascist Ukraine, they also give money
We're not the same
>>2940553>>2940413Get this neoliberal shit off this board
>>2940845>Cromwell didn't enslave Catholics<convict labor had been used in English colonies since the early 1600s […] The practice took place on a much larger scale during the rule of Oliver Cromwell in the years 1649–58. In the ensuing conquest of Ireland, many prisoners were forcibly sent to the Caribbean islands, particularly to Barbados […] In 1638, the population of Barbados was about 6,000, with 2,000 of that number being indentured servants and 200 being African slaves. Fifteen years later, the Islands slave population had grown to 20,000, while indentured servants numbered 8,000 […] Irish servants on Barbados were often treated poorly, and Barbadian planters gained a reputation for crueltyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_indentured_servants>>2940861>Well, then you can't see very far, i'm afraid.Just know that you've provided no evidence that the Rothschilds have any political relevance today. You post headlines of them diversifying their portfolios in oil. They're hardly the richest people in the oil business, are they? Just accept that we live in a capitalist world.
>>2940862>they also give moneyEvery tax payer in the UK gives money.
>>2940866Have you not read Marx?
Anon is just describing the erasure of all classes into two groups.
Middle earners are shafted by capitalist advancement.
>>2940910It’s still three groups because you have lumpen below proles
>>2940685>It also doesn't hurt them the left are fucking RETARDED and never bother to play the Lawfare game back at the Zionists, MPs, Media. Victims of their harssment don't even hit the Zionist orgs like CAA, CST or media outlets like Telegraph, Times, British Broadcasting Corporation etc or parties like Labour with SARs.Hardcore truth nukes. And that can be extended to progressives in general also, trans rights would have moped the flour with their opposition already if they were doing lawsuits instead reheasring cringe hoe-scaring gen-X activism tropes.
Since the cold war ended we have been living in a lawsuit civilization, if you want to get things done as quick as possible you have to go through lawsuits and all the theatrics that goes with it. This is ultimately how both gay right and the jewish feelings crowd won: they sued absolutely anyone.
The totalitarian zionist project isnt even that old, before like 2012 you had national television channels in France and even GERMANY airing anti-israel broadcasts. Fucking Bush Sr. classified the JDL as a terrorist group and deported their rabbis to Tel Aviv.
It is such a despicable missed opportunity when the left of center is omnipresent in lawfare in every western countries.
>>2940702>The left aren't retarded, they're poorThat's a meme pushed by e/ack "EHC" jews and leftist quirk chunguses with learned self helplessness. As far as the west is concerned we arent significantly poorer than the median and like the other anon said we have more than enough rich leftists and wealthy "client demographics" on our side to do things anyway.
>>2940715>but you'll be surprised how easily Zionists fall apart in the courts and how shit like the IHRA definition gets torn to shredsExactly, they are a paper tiger on that front. Reactionaries have hated the judicary institutions for a while for good reason.
>>2940715>campaigns of complaints to OFCOM against the British Broadcasting Corporation, SAR's to try get out the info on how outlets like the Telegraph interwork with the CAA, Betar etc.this i would endorse massively. even if you don't succeed in the substance of the complaints, sufficient volume can be annoying at no cost.
this applies not just to antisemitism, but every single fuckup they ever make. we might not be able to scrap the licence fee, but you can make sure they're spending it on paying someone to spend 30 seconds looking at your complaint instead of on publicly funded rightoid propaganda.>>2940866just because something's neoliberal doesn't mean it's wrong
e.g. it is genuinely true that the UK is undergoing some bizarre pay compression and that this will undercut the government's aims. most of the shittiest jobs can't afford to pay a premium over some of the cushier ones, so nobody who has any other option whatsoever goes for them. "muh small businesses" really understates the problem: it isn't so much small businesses as it is the dynamic where nobody wants to be a low-level manager (the kind who still has to do real work as well) because it doubles your stress compared to being a low-level employee, but adds like 10p to your take-home pay. (so you've also got all the stresses of being poor.)
that doesn't mean you've gotta get all "communists for cutting the minimum wage", there's no need to go around saying ugly things that aren't going to happen, but it's useful to keep it in mind. the problem with minimum wage increases isn't that they're bad in and of themselves, but that because the rest of the economy is utterly dysfunctional, they have these weird effects. in a world where productivity was rising, you wouldn't see substantial wage compression as a result of minimum wage increases because there'd be slack in the middle to pay more.
Well I just hope that welfare goes up %100000 since I am on welfare and so this is my class interest (and I'm not joking they should do this please)
>>2940950We will actually give you a full time job as a poet
Upgraded my phone award
>>2940910>headlines Yeah, headlines. When have your investments been relevant enough for a headline in the Financial Times?
>They're hardly the richest people in the oil business, are theyI don't know tbh. If the Rothschilds actually manage to add all of the former USSR's oil and gas to their raw materials portfolio they probably are, but Putin prevented them from doing that. If you don't see any relevance for world affairs here you don't want to see and you must have reasons for pretending to be ignorant.
>Just accept that we live in a capitalist world.I don't. What the fuck are you doing on this board?
>>2940965>Rothschild is the richest oil man in the worldDid you not read your own post?
The stake was worth 8 billion. Is 8 billion the top drawer? No.
You clearly have some philistine derangement which can't be exorcised at the moment, so there's nothing more I can advise besides you to contemplate on why you believe what you believe.
>>2940975>The stake was worth 8 billion. Is 8 billion the top drawer?Irrelevant/shifting goalposts. You wanted "evidence" for political relevance. This deal was very much relevant to make headlines, regardless of how much Rothschild's involvement was supposedly worth or not worth.
>why you believe what you believe.Saying "anti-semite" without saying "anti-semite", nice. Here's what I believe: you're a butthurt neoliberal and you could use some vacation on archipel gulag.
>neoliberal
The ultimate insult
>>2940985Your original speculation is that the UK state is Zionist because of the Rothschilds. I ask you evidence for this; you provide none. That is all. Like the other anon, the flagrant claim that the last 200 years of war have the stain of Rothschild on it has not been substantiated, has it? Look at the people you associate with and assess your place within them.
>anti-semitePhilistine is a more fitting term.
You live in a locus of low culture to talk about the Rothschilds.
You may as well talk about the Freemasons, who are also irrelevant.
>gulagI should be kept in chains because I demand real evidence?
You are an unashamed, anti-intellectual tyrant.
Are we all boycotting the big shops today lads and only giving our money to le hecking wholesome small business
>>2941264I've been telling my wife slowly over the past year that every small business owner is actually a little Hitler
>>2941266Wait until she meets a big one
>>2941264I won't be but tbh I've drifted from Marxist contrarianism on small businesses. Some are hitlerites, yes, others are basically normal losers, and others are more Park Chung Hee. Inherent to their structure is a lot of variance based around the nature of the individual owner, and in a society full of landlords who take no risk whatsoever even the cuntier small business owners are still doing more than someone who just sits alternating between jacking off and jacking the rent up.
It's one thing to point to class interests and it's useful for avoiding slopaganda like "it's big business that's the problem, not capitalism" but that's only a partial picture. The fact the vast majority of small businesses go under point to a fundamental irrationality in founding one, and it doesn't add up to go "the business owner is completely irrational except in terms of enforcing his class interests, where suddenly he becomes a completely rational machine"
I critically support profitable small businesses run by people who aren't total pricks against "the thing just doesn't get done at all" imperialism. I would like more people who aren't pricks getting into well thought out small businesses. Running a small business would in theory be an ideal task for a future socialist/communist org to expose itself to independent success/failure standards.
Although given the state of most current Marxist org types the actual results will, at the outset, mostly consist of the worst combo of microparty cult and small business hitlerite dynamics. >>2941285>small businesses go under point to a fundamental irrationality in founding oneBy design. Business rates are supposed to price out businesses. It's why so many pubs are closing, apart from a shift in general culture. The issue is that then shopfronts become derelict, or buildings are abandoned, only in wait for some estate agency in a decade's time. It would be better for everyone to keep small businesses open instead.
>I critically support profitable small businesses run by people who aren't total pricksMarxism-Moralism theory.
>Running a small business would in theory be an ideal task for a future socialist/communist org to expose itself to independent success/failure standards. What do you think those newspaper stands are?
Since Bernays, politics and propaganda has been marketing.
Truth is, leftists are bad at advertising themselves.
>Your original speculation is that the UK state is Zionist because of the Rothschilds.
Yes. Their financial backing and political influence in the UK and in European politics is one if not the main reason for the incredible power of the zionist lobby. It's true that it's speculation, however it's a speculation based on reason based on observation. I'll stand by it until you provide more than butthurt.
>I ask you evidence for this; you provide none.
Until you do not define exactly what you mean by "evidence" I can provide you an image of Goatse as "evidence" and you must swallow it as valid "evidence".
>Philistine
I had to look up that word. Turns out in this context it means basically uneducated, uncivilized, ignorant prole. Did you know it's also the name of a historic semitic tribe that used to settle in what is now Israel and got in the way of the zionists? In fact, it's the namesake of a region in the Levante called Palestine.
>You live in a locus of low culture to talk about the Rothschilds.
You know nothing about me and my whereabouts, yet i dare to talk about the Rothschild clan. I'm glad though that i do not exist as a neoliberal worm inside the mighty high halls of the Dumbledore Institute Foundation, longing to be elevated into the rear end of multi-billionaire clan members. Besides, if you haven't noticed yet, bourgeois-liberal print media and the internet provide information and disinformation on all sorts of topics. What's more, these days selected ivory towers of high culture grant access to their archives to pretty much anyone, including uneducated proles. Disgusting, isn't it?
>You may as well talk about the Freemasons, who are also irrelevant.
As you have guessed correctly, I'm not fond of these bourgeois-liberal, elitist occultists. However, i haven't said nor asked anything about them ITT and i would prefer not to dive into a discussion about them as I do agree with you that they are indeed not influential in current world affairs, or rather a lot less influential than they used to be. It is now up to you to provide evidence for your claim on why Freemasons being irrelevant.
>I should be kept in chains because I demand real evidence?
Personally, i don't think so. However, i won't complain if someone less tolerant opts for a robust method in order to make a smug neoliberal shut the fuck up.
>You are an unashamed, anti-intellectual tyrant.
Leave "intellectuals", that is professional scientists, artists and the like, out of this. You're just a professional Hofschranze.
>>2941370>Their financial backing and political influence in the UKOkay, so let's see the receipts. Who are they backing? Come on.
>what you mean by "evidence"I hope you're just pretending to be retarded.
>yet i dare to talk about the Rothschild clanBecause you're boomer-brained.
>why Freemasons being irrelevant. A lack of evidence is evidence for a lack.
It is reasonable to not believe due to no reasons to believe, etc.
How many Freemasons are currently in power? Not many.
<The Guardian said that New Welcome Lodge had about 30 to 40 members, of whom only around four were understood to be MPs, while none are peers.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/freemasons-lodges-operating-secretly-westminster-parliament-mps-lobby-journalists-david-staples-a8194411.html>smug neoliberalI'm just asking for evidence and all you can do is throw the kitchen sink at me. Don't you feel a bit ashamed for being so evasive?
>HofschranzeDo you think I am pro-Rothschild? I just want to be rational.
>>2941416>Okay, so let's see the receipts. Ask the tax office. Every receipt is there. You may also ask for receipts of your local 'Ndrangheta chapter there while you're at it. And if they can't find receipts, you have evidence that the 'NDrangheta isn't relevant. After all, there is no reason to believe that clans might mingle in public affairs & politics.
>Who are they backingAncient aliens and McDonald's employees. Certainly not journalists, think tanks, politicians and other people of interest.
>A lack of evidence is evidence for a lackNot necessarily.
>It is reasonable to not believe due to no reasons to believeWell, you believe in yourself being rational, but there is no reason to do so.
>How many Freemasons are currently in power?You don't know how many lodges exist and are operational, you don't know the identities of the members and The Guardian doesn't know either. Zero evidence. Also, post receipts.
>I'm just asking for evidenceNo, you're asking to believe that the Rothschild clan isn't one of the richest bourgeois clans and to believe that they do not massively influence politics in the UK and Europe on behalf of Israel using their wealth.
>Do you think I am pro-Rothschild?I dunno, are house negroes pro-Rothschild? Maybe you're just doing your job.
>I just want to be rational.You need to try harder.
>>2941811Laughibly:
>That is before taking into account an additional £11bn needed to fund a commitment to increase defence spending to 3% of GDP.They still have not resolved the deadlock between social spending cuts and the deficit necessary for Britain to meet its defence budget inline with NATO requirements. The forthcoming electoral tempest in the US and the ever perilous danger of escalation with the Ukraine war pushes Europe further into the unknown, and Britain along with it. Several threads may tie together if Burnham insists on renewed trade relations with Europe. This government has three years to reshape its plummeting fortunes.
>>2941814>Three yearsOr perhaps less if a global recession occurs
the 3% defence target thing is so stupid
i understand the basic principle, of course, but it's the most obviously fucked target when you remember goodhart's law (a measure that becomes a target ceases to be a good measure)
better to spend 1.5% of GDP and get good value for money than to spend 3% but piss most of it up the wall, as we do. i mean in NATO terms, what the fuck is the point of Britain spending 25% of defence spending on a nuclear deterrent that just duplicates American capabilities absent any economies of scale? If you were in charge of NATO and trying to build the most effective NATO force possible, you wouldn't order such a thing. (Conversely if you're a nationalist type, you'd want a genuinely independent deterrent like France, rather than America handling over the missiles they don't want, and then being surprised when all your test-firings don't work….)
Why does Britain consistently get a special snowflake BAE-systems-bungs version of military aircraft when it could just buy the same models as everybody else, which - as an added bonus - would improve interoperability with other NATO forces? Why are we buying special snowflake tanks and IFVs that shake so much they make people sick, again with cost overruns and problems and so on, when we could just buy the same vehicles as our allies and - again - massively improve interoperability and simplify logistics? ("muh jobs" is a poor excuse: at the sort of prices military hardware runs at, you could pay everyone working in the sector a million pounds to fuck off and still have a slush fund available for other projects…)
I'd make the same point for ships, broadly ("muh tradition" is not a good reason to piss money up the wall), but I have to give credit where it is due. BAE have actually managed to export the Type 26 frigate to Canada, Australia and Norway, so there's finally some interoperability and commonality with allies there. but as for the rest: what's the point in paying over the odds for a worse military and then bragging that we're hitting a 3% target?
and that's just fun "which toy should we buy" stuff, not other questions like "wouldn't it be better to invest in basic capabilities like manufacturing enough ammunition for all our shiny toys, rather than trying to buy shinier and newer ones that will then still run out of ammo 2 weeks into a war, if indeed you're really taking that prospect seriously."
>>2941822Because the 3% target is just the USA forcing countries in Europe to give them money, it's not intended for a war
>>2941824This. Anon needs to stop believing what people/organisations say and look at what they do.
Unfortunately the war fever propaganda seems to be working on most of the population, funnily enough right wingers are the most opposed to it (albeit for the wrong reasons)
>>2941782Lol the exact same thing happens to Western ai relationship bots though. You can go on the AI romance subs on Reddit and they're all upset about how their chatbot partners have been neutered intellectually or terminated by the company etc etc.
>>2941264A one day boycott is such a pisstake, why even bother
>>2941822This is such a febrile understanding of defence spending and the current security climate
The 3% is politically necessary and cannot be avoided, as the dispensation of US hegemony in providing a global umbrella for trade threatens to unwind with the gradual removal of US forces from Europe.
>>2941853Most of that 3% is probably going to be ultimately paid to the US lol. And all of it will be in service of US aims. It is not going to somehow make us more independent.
A decent read on the latest budget by the WSWS:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/10/28/dxmi-o28.htmlHealey’s first UK budget: crumbs for workers, billions for war
>The budget Chancellor John Healey delivered on Wednesday for Prime Minister Andy Burnham’s Labour government leaves workers mired in a deep cost of living crisis. It continues austerity to fund the imperialist wars in which Britain is up to its neck.Of note:
<The £100 will be swallowed up within weeks. Cornwall Insight forecasts that the energy bill price cap for a typical household will rise in January by £276 a year, or 16 percent, to £1,999—the largest rise for four years. An EDF report, seen by the Times, forecasts that bills could rise by 27 percent in January, to a record £2,192 a year on average>>2941853>a febrile understanding of defence spending and the current security climateuygha really thinks he's writing for the Economist 😭
>>2941864Sorry we're not all roadmen
>>2941867And you're not a stuffed shirt oligarch either, talking about a "security climate", give me strength, I don't see the Russians anywhere causing problems, it's the fucking capitalists, defense spending makes us less safe not more, the primary purpose of an army is to be turned on their own people when needed
>>2941868>Nooooooo you have to talk how I want you to and dumb things down else you're a meanie weanie Boo hoo
>>2941868There is quite literally no other term as well
If you want to discuss the defence budget at least try to do the reading
>>2941874I'm not asking you to dumb things down, I'm asking you not to thoughtlessly repeat the clichés of the bourgeois press. What does a "security climate" mean to the British proletarian exactly? Are we at risk of being invaded? No? So who gives a fuck.
>But it's about trade protection! Who gives a fuck? I guess the Cayman Islands must have an incredible navy then considering how many ships they have to protect, if we don't use our military to go start wars we won't have any problems
>>2941876>do the readingOf what, some fucking Zionist freak ex-general who thinks we need to use the disabled to clear minefields? Thanks I'll pass.
>>2941878"Better a pig than a fascist"
>>2941883>Security climate>Bourgeois pressIt's a term used within International Relations to refer to the overall tendency for conflict, and in that context refers to the heightening tensions as a result of the intensification of the Ukrainian war due to wider arms provisions by Britain and Germany in providing Ukraine the capacity to wage an offensive war on national infrastructure within Russia (its oil refineries). Further, the term signifies the oncoming crisis within Britain as a result of the transfer of US forces out of the region, and the wider relation between Britain and Europe regarding their military spending; both France and Germany have set aside billions in arms procurement, with the latter beginning war planning for its own critical transport infrastructure.
I cannot reduce this to anything other than a 'security climate'. You may insist defence budgets are merely expense bills for the massacring of proles, and you may be correct - but war is a tenable issue and an oncoming reality you must explain.
Shy from the issue all you want. The WSWS have produced some articles of note, and likewise the one here
>>2941863 deals competently at the end with the issue.
>>2941896How is that WSWS article saying anything different from what I said?
The fact that France and Germany are escalating arms spending proves nothing except that they're also US vassal states lol.
Are tensions heightening? Maybe, but only due to western aggression that further defense spending will enable.
War is an issue only insofar as it penetrates the national psyche, we should not be at war with anyone and we would be perfectly safe even without NATO.
>>2941903Please name what country is planning to invade the UK which we urgently need to defend against?
>>2941904Irish Unification sort of counts
>>2941905Doesn't exactly take £26 billion more in spending to defend against the Irish. Besides, the Irish would never want to unify with Northern Ireland through force, why would they even want Northern Ireland at all? It would be nothing but problems.
>>2941906Just let the protestants wave their flags and keep the NHS running in the six counties, and they can have dual irish and UK citizenship. I just solved the Troubles
>>2941906You're not really an anti imperialist if contemporary empire in your mind doesn't exist
Why bother calling yourself a leftist if you think war takes place in the imagination?
>>2941909War is just as much in the mind as it is physical, morale and motivation is every bit as important as weapons and tactics
>>2941907>I just solved the TroublesMI5 are en route. You won't live to see tomorrow.
>>2941912At least it isn’t some coked up UVF retard
>>2941910Then you must acknowledge it as a political-economic reality, even if you are to distinguish the two
Bourgeois states and their attendant ruling classes are in conflict over economic production. This is why they engage in national military and defence expenditure.
What threatens to unleash itself now is another rearmament crisis in Europe. As a member of the British proletariat this is what confronts you in terms of your national imperialist rule, and the subjugation of the global south; you cannot imagine away war as it is part and parcel of global capitalist society and its reproduction.
Can anybody in the Greens share what's happening with the party?
The latest I saw from the party was a division between Polanskis cadre and its membership over its Zionism motion
>>2941957I should add that perusing his and the parties twitter the focus seems to be on its core voter demographic, 'Young People', perhaps in an effort to drive membership figures and steer potential labour voters back into its arms
>>2941824But even in those terms it doesn't make sense! If your aim is to maximise the profits of American defence companies, you wouldn't let Britain go "okay, fine, I'll spend 3% of GDP on a special toy from a British company haha, I'll spend £31bn on building submarines for my fake nuclear deterrent in Britain"
>>2941853Is febrile really the word you wanted here?
Anyway: the 3% isn't the point, that's just a bonus, or hyperbole to emphasise the waste. (It's really a hangover from the point that I think that, on the whole, Japan gets better bang for its buck. They spend about 1.5% of GDP - but obviously they've got double the GDP - and since they don't piss about with nukes [dumb] or force projection [a little more justified in Britain's case due to overseas territories] they've got more of basically all the cool stuff. More tanks, more and usually cooler jets, more warships… all we've got in exchange is a nuclear deterrent that's more of an embarrassment than a prestige symbol the moment you remember it's pure LARP.) The more substantial point is that our foreign policy is built entirely on being an American vassal, yet we waste money on things that are neither useful inside that context nor useful outside of it. (e.g. Trident is dumb if America's our friend because they'll protect us anyway, and it's dumb if America isn't our friend because it's entirely dependent on the Americans and would not in a million years be used against their will. Every penny spent on it is a penny that could be spent, to more good, on buying toys from Lockheed Martin.)
>>2941862But this is my point: British foreign policy is not built around being independent, yet as a policy for dependence on the US it is also wrongheaded.
>>2941868>I don't see the Russians anywhere causing problemsThey made sunflower oil really expensive with their stupid failed attempt at operation kidnap-the-president-and-end-the-war-in-a-day LARP.
>>2941883>Are we at risk of being invaded? No? So who gives a fuck.You should ask more pressing questions still: if we
were invaded, what difference would it make?
I never see people making the economic case for just saying fuck it and surrendering. Let's say France wanted to invade us - they'd probably fail, but it would be really expensive. Far more expensive than if we just said "sure whatever" and let them take control and then extract say 10% of GDP as tribute year on year.
One might say: ah, but the bourgeoisie would lose out here, but I'm not so sure that's true. Even if we imposed that entire cost on the proletariat, it would still work out better for everybody in cash terms than bothering to fight.
>>2941904This is too simple an understanding of the purpose of a military. Even absent an invasion force, it's nice to have fighter jets that can go up and investigate unidentified/suspicious aircraft, good to know where everyone else is hiding submarines, and so on.
Even absent a war situation, it's basically historically been good to have a naval power that can go around bullying everyone into keeping their waterways open, and the mere fact it can serves to deter fucking around… e.g. Iran could've-but-didn't close the strait of Hormuz at any point up until the recent war because it would immediately impose more costs than any possible benefit… …but then the US imposed those costs unilaterally and OH FUCK there goes the strait because now they've got nothing to lose… >>2942004Off to go where no man has gone before
>>2941992The comparison between defence procurement of individual assets and nuclear deterrence is ridiculous considering Russia possesses one of the most populus stock of nuclear weapons, and Europe along with Britain are in a state of partial war with them.
This merry-go-round of wishful thinking among socialists must end; you cannot democratically legislate away the existential state of conflict among bourgeois states. For this reason Trident remains a precondition among the security state and its officials in whom they choose to back.
Overall this is such a ridiculous issue to contend with as fundamentally it is a form of denialism among otherwise communists who have as of yet to realise a) the earth is round and b) war exists.
>>2942029To add to this: thus it is you see proposed socialists and communists extending credible support for Ukraine much akin to the situation one hundred years ago when the international was divided prior to Lenin regarding whether in its support for Britain and France, or Germany.
As a personal note, this leads to the exceptional stupidity and philistine self-satisfaction on social media who placate their incapacity to stomach war with the as-of-yet retritbuted phrases of 'dictatorship' and 'totalitarian' in describing opponent societies. All par for the course as most distort reality to their own personal benefit.
There is nothing more revolting than some idiot who worships grave piles through their public adulation of one flag or the other.
I came out as trans over a decade ago, but my whole family and a lot of my friends became increasingly transphobic over the past few years. My ex cheated on me two years ago with his cis coworker, and I ended up homeless for nine months. I phoned my dad and he told me to kill myself. I got made redundant while homeless, so the job centre pushed me to go on PIP and LWCRA because I've got autism even though I'd been working since I was sixteen.
Not a single person I've known helped me out in any way, including other trans people and former comrades from union organising. I want to regain my faith in the left, but I really have gone from feeling like an equal to feeling like I've been pushed out of society.
>>2942051>feeling like an equal to feeling like I've been pushed out of society.Solidarity, comrade.
I was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia a year and a half ago and have been living out of hospital wards and social housing for that time. I'm currently in charity housing and have just been awarded PIP and LWCRA as well.
What part of the country are you in?
>>2942056How are you getting on with your diagnosis? I've been referred to the CMHT due to my paranoia and negative symptoms, but I don't think they're particularly unreasonable given my experiences. Maybe the fact that I'm reluctant to share which part of the country I'm in is further evidence in their favour though.
>>2942063Fell into it
The charity I'm with is basically supported housing so I've had a case worker helping me with the paperwork. It is literally a matter of getting your ducks in a row by evidencing your application with a member of your CMHT.
It is probably the most unfair system I've ever known as my experience with my CMHT team prior to this has been fucking abysmal. My advice would be just force the issue with them the next opportunity you get, and ask for written proof from the psychiatrist you're forced to meet.
Also, the advice I was given for completing the form was filling it in based on what "your worst day" would look like. The more evidence you have, the better.
>>2942067I still feel a bit embarrassed about it really, and severely paranoid that they're going to section me even though I'm no danger to myself or others.
I find the whole thing incredibly demeaning but whatever, like you say, may as well fall into it.
>>2942068Don't voluntarily force yourself into a worse position.
I am quite literally just lucky as the ward psychiatrist recommended me for a charity housing program that runs in the local area.
Ask your CMHT member for help with PIP and see what they say.
And you're right. Most people use 'mental health' as a status symbol right up until it affects them in a chronic condition, at which point they just hit eject and won't even give you the time of day.
>>2942058so fucking disgusting, these freaks need to be stopped. the moralists I mean obviously
>>2942069I've found that a lot of people who think of themselves as egalitarian or progressive can have really regressive attitudes towards schizophrenia, like we're not people who can have varying degrees of insight into our condition.
>>2942067>Also, the advice I was given for completing the form was filling it in based on what "your worst day" would look like. The more evidence you have, the better.It's actually supposed to be based on what you're like on 50%+1 of days, but yeah everyone lies on it obviously and the standards are ridiculous to hit otherwise.
>>2942051Trans people are being pushed out of society, but yeah idk, what can the left do to win you back at least? We're the only people at least trying to defend trans people
>>2942079I've found that almost everyone has despicable views towards actually seriously mentally ill people (ie. not depression and anxiety), and homeless people, addicts, etc.
>>2942079The moment the acknowledgement of a deeper set of conditions threaten the overall capacity for quality of life or otherwise their own opportunity for employment kicks in, then these individuals fundamentally castigate such individuals as non-productive based on their wider class anxieties.
Schizophrenia and psychosis simply do not factor into this. If you suffer from one of these conditions you are viewed as altogether either unworthy of social benefits or even worse undignified for employment and hence deserving of your date (homeless, helpless, and likely an addict).
Most people are socialised into this view within bourgeois society as a result of its reproduction; you are literally taught to view individuals who are seen as the run-off of society with both contempt and fear. Contempt for what they are and fear for what you could end up as.
Laughibly those who postulate your existence as some condition of redemption (those who praise 'mental health') do so not because of the result of some counter-tendency but because they are simply reproducing their own conditioning as labour. They do not give a single shit that you are psychotic, schizophrenic, etc but simply because they have been educated into the dull and insipid position that even the homeless are worthy of employment.
I could write paragraphs on these morons, but suffice to say even in suffering from schizophrenia you are viewed as less than human as a result of your diagnosis. And the social services which exist for the intention to assist you simply serve to blockade you from benefiting from your own right as a citizen to exist.
>>2942093deserving of your fate*
>>2942093UK govt is engaging in a deliberate policy of genocide against the disabled, the mentally ill, trans people, etc. I pray this country burns.
>>2942096Like literally, can we please get occupied by China in a reverse Hong Kong situation? Otherwise I will just have to go and move there
New theory of rightoid psychology just dropped
https://www.liberalcurrents.com/the-politi/(It's "the politics of humiliation" and makes the point that part of the underlying motive of the modern right is humiliating others. It's interesting to consider in a British context where, perhaps, the easiest way to cohere the motives of those in charge is to imagine they're trying to impose as many humiliation rituals as possible, in coalition with all the worst boomers you know. Maybe even a theory of the Labour right: they want to watch lefties grin weakly, look down, and door knock for a war criminal because there's no other option…)
But certainly a good part of the Kiwifarms mindset. That underlying weirdness of some of the biggest losers also being some of the most eager to judge those who violate social norms. Watching others humiliated, humiliating others, why climb the social status ladder when you can shove others down? Why protect your higher status (in the British case) with grace when you can try humiliating others instead?
I maintain a theory that an underrated part of the TERF island saga was some trans people pushing back against bad jokes in the early 2010s, which made a columnist flounce and journo solidarity close in. The plebs got uppity and had the audacity to challenge their betters, same as with the unprecedented levels of vitriol not just towards Corbyn but towards his supporters… how DARE they…>>2942167I mean, this is nothing new.
It's a psychology of otherness. Difference.
The flaccid left on other hand posture inclusion, but as it ought to be known, there are no wholes – for example, nowhere is as exclusive as a place which calls itself "inclusive"; inclusivity excludes, and so the figure of the other; of difference, is once more posited as a threat. Even (you), I suspect (since you sound like the neoliberal anon) thinks of status; of right-wing "freaks". Why is being a freak bad? So see how the left and right are caught in the same partisan identity politics? This is perfected in the counter-cultural film Shrek, where traditional otherness is empathised, and traditional identity is inverted. Thus, nobody likes Shrek because he is ugly – but we laugh at Farquaad because he is ugly (e.g. short). It is blatant hypocrisy and real evil.
This is why someone like Todd McGowan offers a refreshing view of a politics of non-belonging, that nobody is actually "cool"; nobody really has high status, or is fashionable. We are all losers and freaks, and so the only real totality is the Lacanian "not-all" included in the "all". In Christian terms, Jesus says not to simply love thy neighbour, but to also love thy enemy. This is the most radical statement ever made.
>>2942177
Splitting hairs over calling a democide a genocide is embarrassing behavior. Even if the looting you described was a serious problem, it would be the fault of those who designed the system rather than those who exploit it. People respond to incentives!! (And crucially, they respond to their actual incentives, not the incentives the government thinks it has designed. e.g. insofar as people lie to get benefits it's because we strip eligibility from the genuinely deserving, and once you've got a culture of lying… It's a non Newtonian fluid, the harder you punch the harder it sticks, only a softer approach to the deserving will work.)
>>2942185
how the fuck do you think it's not idpol to make up insane racist feverdreams
Brown People: A 3000 word essay on BAMEs (and why I hate them)
>>2942185
The welfare system does not act on trust and civicism and hasn't for a long time. This is precisely the problem. The more checks you introduce and the more conditional you make benefits, the more griftable a system you create. In the 1980s getting the dole was as easy as showing up and pinky promising you were looking for a job. People would take enterprise/small business funds and use them to start bands and buy instruments. Each attempt to crack down on this basically minor and profitable abuse has made things worse for everyone.
A more fundamental problem is centralization of power and control. We don't want to rely on individual judgement of who is and isn't faking it, so we attempt to draw up systems that can balance judging the matter with saving money, and the result just proves goodhearts law over and over again. Reiterating my point: it's the government. If they did not draw up such exploitable rules, no lack of civicism could exploit them. But the solution cannot be "make rules that can't be exploited", because that ALWAYS yields exploitable rules.
>>2942196I genuinely don't understand how anyone can think that the problem with the UK is that it's too easy to get benefits, have they tried getting a job lately? There's nowhere near enough jobs for the millions of unemployed.
>>2942198It's an impression basically all the media, politicians etc want to create + it's always easy to highlight a big pile of outlier cases. (Plus we've a strong culture in Britain of being more concerned someone might be getting something they don't deserve than of being concerned someone who deserves might not be getting)
>>2942177
>I feel the "Uyghur Genocide" completely destroyed the term Genocide having any objective meaning.
It actually was started earlier by hysterionic african-american activists in the context of police brutality and incarceration rate and got picked up on by everyone a few years later during the woke era. Ukrainian genocide, Uyghur genocide, Trans genocide, even feminists invoke similar rethoric all the time.
>I hear humblebragging all the time in pubs, on public transport etc talking about how they're faking ADHD, Autism etc to get bennies.
I know for a fact welfare scammers exist but the main issue is there are legit no jobs since the pandemic, not enough at all for the amount of people at least, everything run on skeleton crews and the only decent job are nepo-gatekeeping or ultra-giga competetive for what it is.
Milking welfare is becoming the only way to make money legally for certain population, and it's not just BAME there are also mostly white peripheric areas that depend on it too. There are tons of white leeches that could work and have the network to find work but don't want to and will instead open a gofundme as a side hustle to complete their welfare check. Lots of radfem/terf, mentally ill gen X women and wholesome nonbinary folx do this i noticed, it's a very female centric scam, at least among whites, because it's easier for women to milk neetbuxx unlike what Tory and other center-right entities invented with the young male gamer asmongold type, which are actually very uncommon and they mostly commit suicide in their 30s.
>>2942203
Look nobody is saying benefit fraud doesn't exist, of course it does, but you have no proof of it being some racial mob that is responsible for it. You're right that the benefits system is messed up and it primarily depends on how you make your application rather than what your actual health status is, but that doesn't mean the solution is to crack down more. Do you seriously think that if enforcement got stronger and there was less fraudulent claims that somehow the government would decide to give more money to the real claimants? Of course fucking not, they would spunk it on fighter jets or whatever and people still wouldn't get the help they need. In that context can you really blame people that much for discussing how to get the system to help them? Why should they self sacrifice when this whole country is so obviously corrupt, and the money they don't claim will just be wasted on insanely inflated government contracts anyway.
>>2942304>the trve rightLike Joseph de Maistre? Right-wing is a nebulous term, really.
I have seen this guy before and he is an unironic feudalist lol.
>Scrump, EvelynWhy would a trve right-winger associate with 'degenerates' like them?
>we are not like anyone elseYou're just a contrarian, mate. A nihilistic hipster, like Fuentes.
You'll also swallow anything your internet friends feed you.
>>2942352If you haven't figured out a way to monetize your own thoughts can you really blame other people for doing so
>>2942478Thank you for this.
>>2942478Looks nice for some fishing.
>>2942029If Russia is an existential threat to Britain and America is not a reliable ally to Britain/Europe, then we need an independent British nuclear deterrent or at least collaboration with France on a European/Anglo-French deterrent. If America is a reliable ally to Britain/Europe, then there is no point buying the missiles that don't work from them and putting them on overpriced bespoke submarines designed and built absent any economies of scale.
It is not a question of democratically legislating away existential states of conflict. If anything it is the opposite: comparing current capabilities to their purported justifications, which change constantly. Trident makes the most sense if you think that Britain does not for a second imagine it will ever actually be in a serious conflict, such as with Russia, without US backing. It makes the most sense if you imagine it's 25% of the defence budget to handwave why a has-been country gets a second US security council vote with the minimum possible product that looks like an independent strategic nuclear deterrent.
Did you know that Britain does not own a single Trident missile? The UK and US share a common pool of missiles, and Britain rents the rights to 58 of them and then sticks its own warheads on them after sailing to America to pick them up. Not coincidentally, since America gets pick of the litter, Britain keeps getting dud missiles that don't work during test firing. Ask yourself: does this seem like a system you'd pay for if you were genuinely looking for credible deterrence and expected you might have to stand alone against a major nuclear power? Isn't it curious that France, who have the geographical misfortune to share the same landmass as Russia and the geopolitical arrogance to occasionally deviate from US wishes, have a genuinely independent nuclear deterrent, and we don't?
>>2942035Don't confuse my argument here for being pro-war, or simply anti-war. It is as follows: the arguments of warmongers do not make sense on their own terms.
Free Cornwall = total independence, autarky, annexation of Devon, language revival, cultural export (cornanime), cornrail, immigration from non saxon countries for higher population, space elevator on Bodmin moor
POUNDLAND HAS FALLEN
I REPEAT. POUNDLAND HAS FALLEN
fdpd
>>2942770RIP. I used to work there back around 2016-2017.
Wings Over Scotland update: he's become a full blown Zionist who thinks that
>After the past two weeks, as a lifelong left-winger, I am finding it very difficult to fight the realisation that when it all comes down to the brass tacks, almost all of left-wing politics, from Marx on, is basically about hating the Jews. "Capital" is a euphemism.
and is getting into frankly weird open racism (constantly retweeting posts about South Africa being a nuclear power with a space program before… Well, before what exactly, Stuart? Before what?)
Reminder that this all started because he got bored with Scottish nationalism in 2017ish and got into transphobia instead. Everything else has followed from the same underlying emotional need to be a cunt. He is the go to example of why, whatever your personal feelings, you cannae chuck a transhumanist under the bus. It's bad for you, personally.
>>2942770It's all onebelow now
How do I get this £100 btw? What do I have to do to receive the burnhambucks? I'm kind of skint.
>>2942976You only get it if you pay council tax, which I guess you wouldn't
>>2942977That's useless then, people who pay council tax probably don't need £100 since they already make tons of money
>>2943218>multiple years in prisonDoes it smell that bad?
can we have a civil war already??
>>2943224You'll need a loicence for that luv.
>>2943222Ay! The firm buttocks of the law repress mine visage sweetly as I doth clamour for air.
>>2942976>>2942977>>2942979it's £100 off your energy bill, not cash
Can anyone show me a single instance of this "trans genocide" in the YouGay because if it was actually happening all of you would be arrested long time ago and you're still here, posting wordswordswords essays.
Can anyone show me a single instance of this "Palestinian genocide" in Israel because if it was actually happening all of you would be arrested long time ago and you're still here, posting wordswordswords essays.
>>2943371Bad faith question but I've got time: you do not have to physically kill people for it to be genocide. Scottish Gaelic language and culture has a reasonable claim to having suffered cultural genocide, for example. Most gaels were not physically killed, but they were forced to anglicise or emigrate. Gaelic culture today is what, the Outer Hebridies, a town in Canada, and some funny road signs in the Highlands just to say "sorry"?
In this context, the general shift of every British institution against transgender people follows a similar pattern of erasure from public life, an attempt (mostly) not to physically kill people but to erase them as a distinct group and forcibly integrate them with the majority population.
The Supreme court ruled an act obviously intended to protect transgender people from discrimination mandated instead that they were discriminated against, effectively arguing that the SDA1975 (which the EA2010 explicitly replaced) took precedence over the GRA2004 (which itself explicitly amended the SDA1975), and therefore effectively repealed it. This is insane sophistry. It is like if they repealed the EU withdrawal act by citing the act that lead to us joining the EU. Quite apart from the sheer malice against transgender people itself, it is the willingness to bulldoze the law in pursuit of that malice which is galling.
But I say this only for the benefit of third parties: you've already drawn your conclusions. You'll be much happier if you admit you hate them not for anything they've done, but because of what they are. Well, rest easy, you've won. Enjoy the country you and your ilk have built for yourselves
>>2943373Didn't happen, she wanted to be treated on any ward, male or female, and it was the NHS who insisted on a private room.
https://www.translegalclinic.com/justice-for-joelle>She explicitly pleaded for a bed on either the male or female ward. Because she was trans they made her wait for a rare single room.Never forget that the institutional purpose of the NHS is to cover it's own arse, not to help you. Never forget that the organising principle of this land is:
>You wretches detestable on land and sea: you who seek equality with lords are unworthy to live. Give this message to your colleagues: rustics you were, and rustics you are still; you will remain in bondage, not as before, but incomparably harsher. For as long as we live we will strive to suppress you, and your misery will be an example in the eyes of posterity. However, we will spare your lives if you remain faithful and loyal. Choose now which course you want to follow.There's a 42% chance that you'll end your days in some miserable NHS hospital bed, perhaps in a corridor. I wonder, as you lie there having a miserable time of it, will you trust they're doing the best they can by you? Will you be happy you spent your life getting mad? Will you think: oh, if only they had more funding…
>>2943371"Trans genocide" is histrionics inherited from the language of the BLM era but you are an insane person if you denies they are the only demographic in the UK and the US.
Leftist uyghas spent the last 25 years rambling about the dangerous anti-blackness of the full english breakfast and how porn litteraly kills women without blinking then act like it's no big deal to have Der Strummer campaigns against a certain demographic with state institutions backing issuing orders to discriminate against them at their job and in healthcare.
Even transphobes wouldnt deny it as it is an explicit part of their agenda.
>>2943375Do you actually think the trans discrimination in the UK is comparable to the palestinian genocide?
Do you want people to post the pictures of bulldozed neighborhoods and blown up bodies, the children with bullets in their skulls or what kind of point are your trying to make?
>>2943722that's not what he's doing, retard. he's pointing out that the idea that
>all of you would be arrested long time ago and you're still here, posting wordswordswords essays.is retarded
which isn't surprising, because it's the product of a retarded mind (yours)
maybe if we had more SEND funding…
postscript:
*you're
>>2943764But his post is not really doing that. The palestinian genocide is real and easily demonstrable, this supposed trans genocide is nothing like it and people in palestine who oppose the genocide do get arrested/harassed by the israelis on a regular basis
Also Im not that initial anon
>>2943799Yes the UK is a major partner in the genocide, what's your point?
>>2943790Obviously the trans genocide isn't the same as the Palestinian genocide, but it is still a thing
>>2943722First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
>>2943808One is a genocide and one isn't. That is not to say that the discrimination trans people face isn't bad, but lets not conflate it with genocide
>>2943818Not the point
>>2943818Faggot who wrote this voted for hitler 3 or 4 times but the church was too far for him. Wish he'd be forgotten by history.
>>2943831don't you know the fucking statistics, refusing healthcare from trans people literally kills them. if you think they have a choice on whether or not to die you clearly don't understand how the human brain works very well
>>2943869
>Oy vey
>twanies
just missing the big black cock and we will have the chud trifecta
>>2943852That's retarded anon. While obviously awful and inhumane, people killing themselves because they can't get the hormones or surgeries they want (which is what I presume you mean by refusing healthcare), whether that's their "choice" or not, is completely different than systematized ethnic cleansing/actual fucking genocide
It's pretty clear to me from this interaction that your view of "how the human brain works" is entirely based around the issue of transness. That's fine, just don't conflate some medical restrictions with the actual mass slaughter and murder of hundreds of thousands of men women and children
>>2943882
Then no one has ever died from lack of treatment for depression or schizophrenia or anorexia or alcoholism
>>2943879
>Then you've missed it
Please explain about how some ex-nazi lib's cringe poem is supposed to relate to my point
>>2943887They're both cases of social murder.
One incipient is the reflection of the other outright and vice versa. Society stares at itself through the lens of its own existence, chiefly violence and bloodshed.
>>2943892>They're both cases of social murderIf you want to say that sure, I might even agree, but that doesn't make them both genocides
>One incipient is the reflection of the other outright and vice versa. Society stares at itself through the lens of its own existence, chiefly violence and bloodshedWhat are you babbling about?
>>2943891The poem is still valid
It reflects the wider prefiguring of the holocaust, in which the Nazis exterminated through industrial means swathes of human individuals. Jewish, gypsy, disabled.
What begins today in law sustains itself in the monstrous rule of Fascist governance. You believe the worst is behind you. Why? The climate is disintegrating, and food production hinges around a particular meridional belt that is conducive to crop growth. Nuclear war threatens to erupt at any moment as a result of miscalculations in Ukraine, with defence department budgets for European conflict outstripping social spending.
The society you exist in is built on bloodshed, establishes itself with bloodshed, and sustains itself based on bloodshed. Why deny the fact that social care in Britain, ever the more being privatised for profit, has rotated into denying healthcare for individuals that are nothing more than the innocent product of its total reproduction?
Capitalism is abolishing sex. In so doing in the reproduction of its antithetical existence it also produces in this opposition that class for its maintenance, one faction of which is dedicated to the unconditional reaction against this removal of gender and sexual norms. Whose actions which if permitted would, as they already tend towards, the annihilation of non-cis gendered individuals.
Why deny this? It's pointless.
>>2943895>What are you babbling about?Your future
Do you care to listen
>>2943901
The past doesn't exist anymore
Your failure to accept this stems from your servile incapacity to accept change. Sexual perversion isn't a result of the acceptance of transgender individuals but the wider shift in the production of sexuality
Seethe and cry all you like, nobody cares.
>Uhhhh how are people dying linked?
>You stupid commies would be arrested if this were true!!!!
Meanwhile a 94 year old has been arrested by police twice under terrorism charges simply because the Home Office is under the sway of Israel pressure groups, and has illegally proscribed a non-profit political group
Your society is fracturing because the two issues stem from a relation with one another not just in its governance but its reproduction. Drone sales fund the lifestyles of your rulers.
Again, why deny this?
>>2943901I do think it's supposed to be some sort of nazi conflation. The blokes exposing themselves to women thing seems more of a projection on your part tbh
>>2943902I believe the worst is yet to come anon. It hardly has to do with the annihilation of non cis people, give it a break lol. Your pretentious and verbose babbling is getting a bit tired though. Just say what you mean, this isn't a slam poetry session or your excuse to larp as some sort of trans Mao Zedong
>>2943903Put it in concrete terms. No babbling
>>2943379conspicuous that our resident anti-trans schizo ignored this post.
once more for those at the back:
You'll be much happier if you admit you hate them not for anything they've done, but because of what they are. Well, rest easy, you've won. Enjoy the country you and your ilk have built for yourselves >>2943917
No, it isn't. The moment the jet stream moves the climate of Britain will both freeze and be unproductive.
The coming century poses worse than the former. For how long do you think you can maintain a lifestyle based on non-renewables. Climate emissions are on track for a 2 degree rise by 2060, and the defence department now publishes internal planning around food scarcity and climate migration.
It is that same exceptionalism which believes itself exempt from these issues that presses on the opening of new oil fields. The longer of which these changes are delayed the more violent the counter-action. What do you believe society will be like in say 20 years, when heat deaths are a yearly occurrence, flash floods are commonplace, and British crop growth begins to fail due to intemperate weather?
This is your future. Bourgeois purges, not genocides, based on the industrial usage of Artificial Intelligence for social control. Sweatshop wages, repression, and outright Fascist governance.
If you cannot identify the social murder of transgender individuals why bother decrying the massacre of Palestinians? The British government is lurching headfirst into a militarist society based on xenophobia and racial superiority. Either accept this and live comfortably or do not. Do not bother bringing to some meagre door your own wholesale issue with transgender polity.
>>2943898
>if you have mental illness you're just a bad person
get this stupid shit out of here
>>2943916>Put it in concrete terms. No babblingThe two (the industrial murder of Palestinians and the social murder of transgender individuals) are inverse reflections of one another, caught in each other's image.
They are two issues of the same moment in the reproduction of imperialist society. You cannot view them as separate as those businesses which profit from the sale of commodities that condition the social existence of its proletariat (in the eventual eradication of sex) also finance the capital circuits which propagate its military rule, and vice versa.
This entire argument is insipid. How can you view the two as unrelated?
Fucking weep for the fact that some of you cannot see what is coming
How long do you believe your society will last when it must fund expeditionary wars to grain fields when it can no longer produce its own foodstuffs. How do you imagine your society to look like? How long will capitalist society last, even in said state of affairs?
>>2943933why does there have to be a murder olympics, it's not like giving transgender people rights and not killing Palestinians is a zero sum game.
Likewise, why bother denying the legal changes?
They are clearly anti-trans. The health review published and put into effect, along with the populist seeking electoral strategies of all main parties is to the repression of transgender individuals.
This is your society.
>>2943941It isn't a murder Olympics.
What starts abroad begins at home. The political doctrine and mandate of your government which denies the existence of transgender individuals also sponsors the Palestinian genocide.
One is predicated on the other.
>>2943943The legal changes have to be denied because there it makes the psychological fantasies of the anti-trans obsessive more satisfying. They're standing up to this big powerful force, rather than picking on the weak. They're a brave warrior for truth, not a freak driven insane by the internet, and so on. Most importantly of all, if the final victory is denied then they get to continue fighting, continue experiencing the joyful rage of setbacks and the joyful rage of minor victories. They don't have to accept that they've won and find a new hobby.
Not incidentally, one sees precisely the same psychology in vocally pro-Israel types
>>2943937Where will the grain fields be thoever? A lot more British lands that are too cold currently will open up for growing.
>>2943957Like where? It's not like Scotland et al have an arctic climate
Cheeky G+T before work, anons? :)
>>2942968>if you hate Israel, you hate Jews>if you hate capitalism, you hate JewsPhilosemitism is the new antisemitism
>>2944194
>doesn't engage with the point at all
Once again so everyone can see you're not taking it to heart
You'll be much happier if you admit you hate them not for anything they've done, but because of what they are. Well, rest easy, you've won. Enjoy the country you and your ilk have built for yourselves
Nobody believes for even a second that you're a neutral observer quibbling over the definition of genocide, but you really make it obvious when you decry "persecution narratives" from a group that is unambiguously being persecuted, and in a way utterly anomalous in comparator countries.
>>2944202No need to reply. Just have a g+t and report it, anon.
>>2943933>The two are inverse reflections of one another, caught in each other's imageNo they're not. They hardly share any relation at all. Medical restrictions being placed on the treatment of some minority identity group is not a "inverse reflection" of the industrial slaughter and ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of people caught in the world's largest concentration camp, nor does such a phrase carry any concrete meaning.
>This entire argument is insipid. How can you view the two as unrelated?Obviously all forms of discrimination under imperialism are "related" to some extent by their reproduction through the imperialist system. That's not the question though, first both were genocides, then one is genocide and one is social murder, now they're just related, we keep stepping further away from the original claim of equivocation between these things.
You are a FIRST WORLDER, please don't pretend that your lack of immediate access to hormone treatment is somehow in the same ballpark as the racial extermination of palestinians, it's not and making suggestions like that makes you look completely delusional/retarded
>You are a FIRST WORLDER
t. First worlder
>>2944220Yes and? Im not the one making equivocations am I?
>>2944215>They hardly share any relation at allWhy? Because in all appearance they seem to share no common issue?
This is a ridiculous position. The society responsible for the material reproduction of its health agenda depends on its loot from the orient; or are not its soldiers people, its buildings British, and its government elected?
Is that not your vote on the ballot? The political mandate that raises political factions to rule is derived from those economic conditions which justly divided maintain the illusion that one issue - the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie and the systematic repression of the proletariat - are actually two, if not more.
Wake up, the rule of law in this country is predicated on that higher rule of war among its concomitant classes for production and profit. The genocide is conducted by a Zionist government which is guided in all matters by finance. Only here this illusion is maintained of a separation between commercial interests and the military state, where in America and elsewhere (newly adapting France) it is its commercial interests which adopt the mein of defence chiefs and war planners.
If you wish for no other proof in this fashion, then just look at how the pride flag is strung (like a dead body) from the roofs and sides of British businesses when the time comes. That there is no constant in the application of laws regarding gender equality, that by the passage of one set of well loaned suits within Westminster for another, is proof still that those contractions which birth war and genocide abroad begin within its mother countries.
Palestine is a fault line in imperialist rule, as so called transgender issues are in the West. The irony is that it is not transgender at all; bourgeois production borrows its robes from that class - the proles - which are responsible for its upkeep.
What is occuring before you is the abolition of sex, by none other than capitalism itself. These two causes, the Palestinian genocide and the social repression of transgender individuals - people - are very much entwined.
>>2944278>>2944215If you wish to take the issue still, then know that the same technology companies responsible for global civil and military infrastructure, its contracts, its cables, and so forth have both hands in the pot; data centres and chip hardware raised along by finance capital which put to use server racks and cloud storage for entertainment and business usages are also equally loaned for Zionist purposes.
There is no divide. This is not doom telling or prophesising but the reality you must actually acknowledge; the world will cleave itself apart in unrest which beginning as the effects of interia from the restless self-revolution of Capital will spill over into every facet of your life.
You are at the beginning of a technological and social upheaval which attends such social forces that the world cannot hope but to depart this state of affairs for that inferno into which it is now pushed: war, and repression.
It is quite literally socialism or barbarism.
Socialism for all, or barbarism for all.
>>2944278>Why? Because in all appearance they seem to share no common issue?Really funny that you seem to think that's somehow ridiculous lol. Yes these things that share no common issue are hardly related to each other. Any relation you do try to pull will be broad and nebulous, like both "being oppressed" or that both are some kind of aspect of the whole imperialist system or whatever
Many things share those characteristics, that doesn't make them all equivocal, nor "very much intertwined" Your logic, once parsed from your retarded and verbose john cooper clark larp, is completely ridiculous. The evidence for the equivocation of genocide of palestinians and the discrimination that trans people face in the UK is that the pride flag is hung up by corporations? That gender equality laws are not applied consistently and that the same people rule from westminster? None of that proves anything and it certainly doesn't prove that the palestinian genocide begins with trans discrimination in the UK. How fucking self obsessed are you dude? Get a grip and understand that the world doesn't revolve around you or your personal issue, it's not a faultline against imperialism to be trans, jesus christ you are just british.
>>2944322Why do you talk like this? Seriously, it's tiring and annoying to read. You are not mao zedong. Just talk normally
>>2944353I like the way he talks.
I wouldn't say that Palestine and trans rights are 100% linked but I think it's notable that there's a strong link between insane TERFs and Zionists, they naturally flock together (just look at Wings of Scotland as mentioned earlier in the thread).
Is this whole TERF, trans-genocide issue really that bad in Britain? How do you guys talk about this shit all day every day? This is the only thread.
>>2944362>I like the way he talksI find it annoying because I have to put effort to parse wtf he's on about. I am not impressed by verbosity and much prefer clear delivery of meaning so we can just get down to business. This isn't some pamphlet to inspire the masses, we're on a niche schizo discussion forum
>they naturally flock togetherI mean that's just reactoids of all types flocking together. I personally am not super convinced by trans politics, at least in how I personally view the sex and gender thing, it's whatever. But obviously if you make your whole political identity about hating this or that minority you're just a reactoid and you're gonna get along with others that are also like that
>>2944353>like both "being oppressed" Or like your tongue oppressing thought
>>2944353>is completely ridiculousAs opposed to some twat who can't see that the Nvidia sales and hard drive firmware financing his cushy position in life is also the prime component of his nasty little countries forrays into social obliteration and the genocide of innocent civilians in that as-of-yet Jerusalem?
>None of that proves anything and it certainly doesn't prove that the palestinian genocide begins with trans discrimination in the UK.Read Marx you illiterate dunce
>How fucking self obsessed are you dude?If this is not a nerve, we've struck gold!
You have no argument beyond the basic contention that the two issues appear side by side in your YouTube playlists. If you won't read Marx, read Lenin. Specifically Imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism. You don't have the stomach for your own national polity if you can't even glue together that fracture which exists before you: that the social reproduction of war is intertwined with its material base.
Alas! Prose doth merrily make of us a clown,
And in bitter contempt of contemplation I swim
And subsequently drown. Roadman I am not,
Nor shall ever be, for I own a room in social
Housing and universal credit (money that is free!)
>>2944387Concession accepted
>>2944353>it certainly doesn't prove that the palestinian genocide begins with trans discrimination in the UKNobody said this, stop seething and spouting bad faith nonsense.
Be honest: what do you actually want in a reply? Be really, radically honest.
>>2944363Fundamentally it's because Britain is anomalous amongst first world countries in that the main centre left party is as anti-trans as the right wing ones, while the courts will actively trample on the (unwritten) constitution and engage in unprecedented levels of sophistry to help advance the process of hurting transgender people.
The basic contrast can be seen in the Guardian newspaper, nominally Britain's lib paper. The US and Australian editions are progressive on transgender issues if optics-focused as you'd expect, while the UK edition respectability-washes the positions of the right wing press. Meanwhile the British Broadcasting Corporation, nominally unbiased, writes articles about how evil transhumanists are pressuring lesbians into having sex with them. (Sources: an e-mail poll from the mailing list of a TERF charity without about 70 responses which the British Broadcasting Corporation admits has "no statistical validity" and a porn actor accused of sexual assault who blogs about how transhumanists should be lynched. British Broadcasting Corporation balance!)
You do not see this on the Australian, Canadian or New Zealand broadcasters. Even in the US, frankly some of the time you'd be surprised to see it on Fox News.
Why this is the case is a full essay in and of itself (Britain's caste system building resentment at the idea you get any say in what you are, middle class non intersectional feminism, Labour failing to embrace its support base the way other centre left parties have, and much more…) but the crux of it is that in such an environment of total nonsense, some people here fall for the establishment line. Sometimes because they like boomer brainworm parties like the CPB, sometimes because Britain is designed to breed broken people with personality disorders, sometimes because this place is so fucking depressing it's hard not to resent those who find happiness and easy to laugh at the suffering of those who thought they could escape but find themselves stuck suffering (the basis of all British comedy), and sometimes of course because they're 4channer retards. Imageboard users always struggle with the idea you can choose what you are, being British is just the icing on the cake.
>>2944389>As opposed to some twat who can't see that the Nvidia sales and hard drive firmware financing his cushy position in life is also the prime component of his nasty little countries forrays into social obliteration and the genocide of innocent civilians in that as-of-yet Jerusalem? Obviously imperialist production dictates where and how violence is administered across the globe, that has nothing much to do with Britain being particularly anti-trans or any particular discrimination against trans people anywhere
>Read Marx you illiterate dunceI have, he has nothing to say about trans access to hormone treatment sorry
>If this is not a nerve, we've struck gold!This doesn't make sense. You've either hit a nerve or you've hit gold? What are you on about?
>You have no argument beyond the basic contention that the two issues appear side by side in your YouTube playlists.No, my argument from the beginning was that the palestinian genocide is a real and demonstrable thing and this UK trans genocide is not, because it is nothing like a genocide in actuality. You've already conceded that it's not a genocide and walked all the way down from both being social murder to the two things being somewhat related. Idk where you're getting this thing about youtube playlists, transness never really comes up in my feed
>that the social reproduction of war is intertwined with its material baseThat might be, though it's moreso that war's social reproduction, as all social reproductions do, springs forth from the material base rather than being merely intertwined with it. But that has nothing in particular to do with trans discrimination in the UK. The only reason you think this is because you've already accepted the plight of trans people as some sort of forefront in "the abolition of sex" by capital, for some reason
>>2944390Nothing was conceded at all
>>2944391>Nobody said this, stop seething and spouting bad faith nonsense.Yes, they did say that
<is proof still that those contractions which birth war and genocide abroad begin within its mother countries.Now why did you say that nobody said this? What's up with that?
>Be honest: what do you actually want in a reply? Be really, radically honest. I'd prefer direct and concrete answers but I'll take the oration larp that anon provides if I have to I guess
>>2944415>Obviously imperialist production dictates where and how violence is administered across the globe<That however has nothing to do with the social murder of transgender people!The mental gymnastics you perform to sustain your own contradictory position speaks for themself
>>2944415>I have, he has nothing to say about trans access to hormone treatment sorryStunning, you're also a moron
Trans people are truly unique in history. They’re the only people to have a genocide committed against them that has somehow resulted in zero deaths. One can only wonder what other fascinating ways they can bend reality
>>2944415>the palestinian genocide is a real and demonstrable thing and this UK trans genocide isYou are quite literally parroting the Zionist line that the definition of a genocide begins and ends with the creatures of its own kind.
It is social murder; the systematic denial of equality rights, the failure for civil representation, and the outright denial of the ability of the nations health service contributed to the overall acceptance of the civil repression and scapegoating of a certain set of people. You do not see this because it is so easy in your narrow world view to reduce such issues to matters of bourgeois political function, and the part or side of that sect you claim to support you contradictorily undermine with your own stupid incomprehension of how sexuality is reproduced in its place within capitalist society.
Bourgeois civil political rights which contribute the legal edifice of the liberal democratic state are part of the fabric and existence of bourgeois British society. Please read On The Jewish Question if you still believe otherwise
>That might be, though it's moreso that war's social reproduction, as all social reproductions do, springs forth from the material base rather than being merely intertwined with it.This is nonsense; it isn't the social reproduction of war as an abstract determination but as a real existential preconfigured ensemble in the relations of production. The violence experienced legally and economically by transgender individuals is part of the same moment in the reproduction of those relations through its production of capitalism's source of its own motive (value, then vis a vis labour). The Palestinian cause is immediately intertwined with transgender individuals, not to the extent that the genocide of one constitutes the other, but that the political privileges afforded in the sale of arms finances the sale of British politics and her ruling class to its masters, the bourgeoisie.
There are two ends here, and both finish neatly around this point: the prosecution within the social conscience of transgender individuals is directly afforded both its denial and its sponsorship by those forces which produces said individuals. It is a genocide in a sense that the denial of the murder by an establishment which also systematically denies their existence and prohibits it is effected for that purpose: to outlaw a subclass of people.
>>2944425>zero deathsAmazing
>>2944429>contributeconstitute*
>>2944429Name a trans identified individual who has been murdered in a pogrom
>>2944432>Genocides are pogroms Name a migrant murdered on British soil!
(Fact: they all die before they get here!)
>>2944425Genocide doesn't even require people to die, go look up the definition
Ah yes, the homeless deserve their fate and drug addiction is an 'epidemic'
Socially produced crises invisible globally amount to the total systematic murder of individuals for profit. But why tally the dead of such people?
Capital exterminates daily through chemical induced life sentences by the likes of cancer, insulin, and asbestos. What differentiates all these and its total creed of heightened violence: war?
Profit is the central maxim which globally judges like St Peter who rises and falls to heaven and hell.
Why call a genocide a genocide when you can just deny the truth.
>>2944415>I'd prefer direct and concrete answers but I'll take the oration larp that anon provides if I have to I guessthis does not answer their question of what
you want. why, of all possible discussion topics, are you here to argue about whether the systemic exclusion of transgender people from public life warrants being called a genocide or not? is all you want the "concrete answer" of "there isn't a genocide, it's just a shit place to live"? to have someone repeat back what is ostensibly your own conclusion to you? or are you hoping others go further still, arguing that actually they deserve it, or so on? you have something that you want, and what i want is for you to state it openly: how is it that you desire the anons of leftypol reply, in your heart of hearts?
(my wish, sincerely, is that you either provide some insight into your comically autistic worldview, or admit that you're acting in bad faith. my expectation is some kind of non-reply that reveals the latter by omission, and therefore is insufficiently obvious for a third party reader taking you in good faith, requiring me to ask again, more slowly, as though you are a special needs child…)
>>2944425once again demonstrating you did not read the earlier point about scottish gaelic culture. i hope patrick sellar burns your house down.
>>2944418Yeah I don't even fully agree that what is happening to trans people in the UK constitutes social murder, I might agree on some level but it's a bit of a stretch imo. I guess I don't "understand the human brain" though right? Lmfao
Everything and every form of discrimination can be considered to be a result of the imperialist system, that doesn't tell you anything about the effects, causes and severity of distinct and particular issues, even in regard to how they actually relate to imperialism as a concrete system. It's just a meaningless truism when used in this way
Nothing I've said is contradictory
>>2944422Not an argument dumdum
>>2944429>You are quite literally parroting the Zionist line that the definition of a genocide begins and ends with the creatures of its own kindThis is not a zionist line, usually they are more of the opinion that genocide is dependent on how many people you kill or whether you kill jewish people in particular.
>It is social murder;You can believe that, it's certainly discriminatory or repressive or whatever. Trans people are to some extent scapegoated and denied access to medical treatment for their condition, so in the sense that it is a discrimination against a certain group of people it is similar to what palestinians face in the abstract. If we look at it concretely however we see that the two issues are almost nothing alike in actuality. Trans people in the UK are still british, they are not deprived of citizenship and nationhood nor living under apartheid. The only major issues they face are specific to them, lack of access to particular hormones and surgeries, etc
>the political privileges afforded in the sale of arms finances the sale of British politics and her ruling class to its masters, the bourgeoisieThis goes for all oppression and discrimination and the exploitation of the workers at large. In this way everyone (besides the bourgs obv) is intertwined with the palestinian cause, not trans people specifically. I agree, but again that doesn't make the cause of trans individuals particularly more related than any other struggle
>to outlaw a subclass of peopleI don't think trans people are outlawed in any way, I might be wrong tho I know the UK is pretty kooky about this stuff
>>2944441You do not know the meaning of the term social murder
Please educate yourself
>>2944443>>2944441Likewise the recent health rulings by the British state (along with the Home Office likewise in their proscription of PA) subject transgender individuals to what is essentially a second tier citizenship as it effectively denies their recognition.
Why are you here arguing this when you aren't even aware of the Cass report? The government is lurching in its sclerotic dysfunctioning in maintaining living standards against the growing tide of history which sets sail from its shores in its nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers and arrives in rubber dinghies.
Where are you getting your opinions from?
>>2944441>The only major issues they face are specific to them, lack of access to particular hormones and surgeries, etcthis might've washed before the supreme court ruling but it just makes you look like you've no idea what you're talking about now. you lol lmao'd away the example of a transgender woman dying of cancer, begging to be put on a male ward to be seen, because the NHS insisted as a transhumanist she couldn't go on either a male or a female ward.
that's to say nothing of just handwaving away the fact that the rule of law was fundamentally abandoned just to persecute these people. i cannot emphasise enough that even if you hate transhumanists, the supreme court ruling should still shock you. it is the most flagrant example of legislating from the bench in british history. it is a massive usurping of parliamentary power by the courts, with reasoning so facile and absurd that it is difficult even now to take it seriously.
>>2944448
One is the civil proscription through its justice system, the other is the fundamental denial of the existence of a class of people. British civil society permits the existence of these individuals as criminal - thus granting them civil liabilities and does not blind itself in its recognition as to their actual being.
Transgender individuals are persecuted in that they are not permitted this basic legal acknowledgement within bourgeois law that most of their proponents seek. This is the degree of separation which has emerged as a result of the growing political reaction since the overall transition conducted abroad within the US and as a result globally: the constitution of their social movement has failed to attain its goals through the democratic party mechanism and now they share the same fortunes as most radical communist parties do, in that final recognition that they do not share anything in common but the fact that they are labour.
The fact that transgender individuals are brandished with with epithets of paedophilia, perversion, and sexual criminality demonstrates the fact that they are not permitted that basic dignity of recognition within British society. It is absolutely no irony that said same individuals whilst branded with deviancy are also widely fetishised for their bodies and engage in pornography to make a living.
Just admit you're attracted to them, arguing about them here is probably libidinally gratifying to you and their basic existence for you causes no end of jouissance.
>>2944448
>pedophilia
Yet again, the transphobic wrecker is a yank.
We can see you when you glow in the dark.
>>2944443>meaning of the term social murderIt basically just mean to cause preventable deaths caused by systemic neglect or deprivation no? As in lack of healthcare and things like that, as opposed to outright murder by the state
What else is there to educate myself on in this regard? lol
>>2944445>Likewise the recent health rulings by the British state (along with the Home Office likewise in their proscription of PA) subject transgender individuals to what is essentially a second tier citizenship as it effectively denies their recognition.What does the recognition of some medical issue have to to with palestine? If schizophrenia were to stop being recognized, while bad from a medical practice pov, it wouldn't be schizo genocide even if you could argue it'd be social murder
>>2944452>you lol lmao'd away the example of a transgender woman dying of cancer, begging to be put on a male ward to be seen, because the NHS insisted as a transhumanist she couldn't go on either a male or a female ward.I haven't read the entire thread and this example was not directed at me, so you are getting upset at me for nothing. Medical malpractice in regard to one woman one time does not a genocide make. What, are all trans people in the UK not allowed into the hospital ward by law or what are you trying to say?
>i cannot emphasise enough that even if you hate transhumanists, the supreme court ruling should still shock you. it is the most flagrant example of legislating from the bench in british history. it is a massive usurping of parliamentary power by the courts, with reasoning so facile and absurd that it is difficult even now to take it seriouslyI do not hate trans people in any way and any government decision that discriminates against them is obviously terrible. What I disagree with is the equivocation of particular issues with trans people in the UK with the victims of imperialist mass slaughter. My country for instance is arguably more imperialist than the UK and yet we barely have any issue relating to discrimination of trans people at all
>>2944468>What does the recognition of some medical issue have to to with palestineYou are going in circles, consider rereading what has been written and then coming back when you have understood the argument.
>Be American
>Succeed
How do they do it?
https://www.British Broadcasting Corporation.co.uk/news/articles/c6n4en89nd2xo
<Reform council leader quits after staff comments leaked
>It comes after Harrison had apologised after being recorded saying 76 council solicitors would be made redundant, branding them "incompetent", before saying "what I want to look at now is the women", in remarks which were then released on social media.Female solicitors everywhere in shambles
>>2944478I responded to one anon making an equivocation between the trans discrimination in the UK and the genocide of palestine
Everything since then has been various anons trying and failing to argue that they are they same thing or coping and/or conceding that both are the result of the current system (as everything is)
Please don't act like Britain is some elusive esoteric country that only its inhabitants can truly understand
>How dare you argue against people who are suffering instead of just blindly nodding along to whatever batshit equivocations they makeGive it a break dude
>>2944485You have failed to illustrate how they are related in any concrete sense. Trans people in the UK are not "effectively second class citizens" in the way Palestinians are. They have full citizenship, they have voting rights, they even still have legal protections against discrimination for their specific identity or whatever afaik.
>Trans people in the UK are not "effectively second class citizens"
The American said, having never heard of the Cass report and recent legal rulings.
>>2944510you are the one who imagines there's equivocation merely by using the same word. should we ignore the Moriori genocide on the grounds that it was nothing like what's happening in Palestine today? perhaps you should go to wikipedia and correct their article 'Circassian Genocide', since after all it was really more of an ethnic cleansing…
>they even still have legal protections against discrimination for their specific identity or whatever afaik.kafkaesque braindeadness when you've already had it explained to you that
specifically for the purpose of legalising discrimination against them, the rule of law was permanently tarnished in this country.
>>2944519he doesn't even have that excuse, we've told him.
The American puzzled by the argument reclines in his million dollar chair and muses.
"Perhaps, if there is no genocide of transgender people, then the Palestinians too are not really experiencing one"
On such thoughts and more, be sure, he'll post on leftypol dot org!
>>2944522>you are the one who imagines there's equivocation merely by using the same wordYes that's that an equivocation is. You are saying it's the same thing/same kind of thing
>should we ignore the Moriori genocide on the grounds that it was nothing like what's happening in Palestine today?Except of course, that it is pretty much in essence like what is happening in palestine today on a concrete level
<With the arrival of the second group "parties of warriors armed with muskets, clubs and tomahawks, led by their chiefs, walked through Moriori tribal territories" and "curtly informed the inhabitants that their land had been taken and the Moriori living there were now vassals." When some Moriori argued back, they were killedSame with the Circassian genocide if I remember correctly
>kafkaesque braindeadness when you've already had it explained to you that specifically for the purpose of legalising discrimination against them, the rule of law was permanently tarnished in this countryYou said that yeah, you didn't explain it in any way. From our interaction so far I am extremely hesitant to just believe you on this matter. If you want to explain it I am open to hearing it ofc.
Also lol @ the random inclusion of kafkaesque, are you really so desperate to use verbose language? What is up with that? You couldn't just say surreal or smt? Kafkaesque doesn't even apply here as a adjective
>>2944519>>2944525I am not american and my entire contention was that the palestinian genocide is real and easily demonstrable, unlike this supposed trans genocide. Are you retarded?
>>2944544More Palestinians died in the first week after Oct 7th than died in the entire moriori genocide. Why are you equivocating between the two? Do you think moriori lives are worth more or something?
>>2944544>I am not americanAnd yet you're a moron who thinks the term citizenship entails voting rights.
Please read On The Jewish Question, or better yet an article on the Cass report and Starmer's as well as Burnham's positions on transgender rulings. Your society churns like a vat by its business of industry as it eradicates housing and healthcare in the name of profit.
Again, you did not understand what was meant by the term 'social murder', so why continue arguing?
>Also lol @ the random inclusion of kafkaesque, are you really so desperate to use verbose language? What is up with that? You couldn't just say surreal or smt? Kafkaesque doesn't even apply here as a adjective
"Why are you not as stupid as I am": the post
>>2944552The mioiri still experienced a genocide regardless of how many of them there were beforehand, trans people are simply not experiencing genocide
>>2944560>And yet you're a moron who thinks the term citizenship entails voting rights.I mentioned them as two distinct political rights/privileges tho, I didn't say that one automatically entails the other
>Please read On The Jewish Question, or better yet an article on the Cass report and Starmer's as well as Burnham's positions on transgender rulings. Suggest me an article then, Im perfectly happy to read it and I already agree that trans people face excessive discrimination in the UK, though I doubt any of it would make me consider that to be equal to genocide
>Your society churns like a vat by its business of industry as it eradicates housing and healthcare in the name of profitAgreed, but irrelevant to the discussion
>Again, you did not understand what was meant by the term 'social murder', so why continue arguing?I do understand what is meant by social murder, as illuminated here:
>>2944468<to cause preventable deaths through systemic neglect, deprivation, etcUnless there's something I forgot to mention?
>>2944563Nothing I've said is kafkaesque in nature
>>2944440Sorry I did not see this reply earlier
What do I want? To argue my position against people I disagree with until they either convince me of their position or concede. Pretty much what I do here all the time
>why, of all possible discussion topics, are you here to argue about whether the systemic exclusion of transgender people from public life warrants being called a genocide or not?It came up in the thread and I think that genocide is a serious issue, especially in palestine. I think conflating it with relatively mild political repression is bad and anons here shouldn't do that
>how is it that you desire the anons of leftypol reply, in your heart of hearts?Idk, I dont want anyone to reply in any particular way. If I agree with them I agree, if I disagree we'll continue arguing. I don't need them to repeat my own conclusion to me, nor to "take it further" as I dont consider my position in this regard to be further on some kind of axis
Is that enough insight into my "comically autistic worldview"? I don't consider it to be particularly odd
>>2944593>I mentioned them as two distinct political rights/privileges tho, I didn't say that one automatically entails the otherBecause by implication in listing said rights you have no other understanding
You've reduced your position to the banal articulation of your own argument's purpose and function, which is a sign you've nothing original to add.
Just stop posting.
>>2944593Stop equivocating between the 1500 moriori killed and the at-least 77,000 Palestinians killed, there's a huge difference there that you're eliminating with sloppy language use.
>>2944619Blowing it out the water, bud
>>2944593it's kafkaesque to say a group that the courts specifically broke the law to mandate discrimination against can still rely on purely notional anti discrimination protections within the same arbitrarily rewritten legislation, enforced by those same courts.
A tangent on healthcare: in 2002, arguing at the European court of human rights, the UK government argued that because it would put transgender women on a female ward it was clearly respectful and so didn't need to introduce the ability to amend your identity documents. It lost that case, but the point is illustrative: a small-c conservative approach to transgender issues nevertheless saw the government arguing pragmatically it would treat people decently. The current supreme court ruling + EHRC tribunal guidance has pushed things back in a way that is basically unprecedented, has a body count of at least one, and which the NHSs own guidance recognizes will create a host of practical problems.
It's tempting to think Britain is merely regressing to the status quo ante, but it isn't. It is pioneering forms of discrimination that did not exist even in the bad old days.
"But what of the Maoris" my enemies online decry, as I borrow my father's bank card to finance another data centre in his name.
Genocide? I'll show you genocide.
this is a uniquely hopeless country and everyone with the means to do so should leave and not return and tell everyone with the capacity to do so to so likewise.
>>2944598>Le implicationIf you want to concede you can just say so anon.
Me listing simply listing those rights as separate concrete examples of how the discrimination trans people in the UK face, while of course bad and reprehensible, does not make them effectively second class citizens in a meaningful way, is not an implication towards the correlation between citizenship and voting rights. I understand you really wanted to cope about me being a yank for some reason so you were reaching, it's alright
I can concede the second class citizen thing, I haven't read the article and maybe it really is that severe. But by your logic, homosexual is the DPRK, as well as many other places are facing genocide as well. As they have no political or institutional recognition or protection, in other places it's even illegal and severely punished. Do you believe this is genocide? Or is it only genocide in imperialist countries?
>You've reduced your position to the banal articulation of your own argument's purpose and function, which is a sign you've nothing original to addBeyond pointing towards some article that is supposed convince me, which I am still waiting for as well as an explanation for how exactly my understanding of social murder is limited, the argument has basically dried up. What else is there to say when you've given up the argument entirely? It's not particularly deep, despite your verbosity
>Just stop posting.You can stop replying whenever you want. I will take it as a concession that I am right and you are wrong however, sorry anon :(
>>2944619I understand that to you genocide doesn't mean anything, but I do value the utility of the term in some regard and think it shouldn't just be thrown around to describe any comparably mild oppression any group faces
>>2944623I mean you say that, but nobody has shown it to me or what this mandated discrimination looks like concretely. There's only been pointing at this or that report or ruling as if those things self evidently describe a second class tier existence or even a genocide for trans people in the UK. They do not and I wish you guys would argue your position a bit better or stop with the cope
Im not saying that the courts can be relied upon to uphold these protections in perpetuity, just that you still have them as of right now
>>2944628Truss fighting for relevance as ever.
Comically, she was flirting with libertarian economists on her channel last I checked and supposing herself as that diplomat of political-economic rationality for her 5 viewers.
Accusing Miliband of treachery for the recent direction within Westminster and the media of financial reparations is the height of being pathetic. This current itself is indicative of the cleft forming in the political factions within the ruling class which are nothing more than two directions in moderating the rise and growth of nationalism within Britain, one for its petty-exceptionalism and the other for political moderation.
Ridiculously the Greens have a functional attitude towards their wider goal of membership growth by highlighting publicly in its media channels the role of Burnham's government in the Palestinian genocide. In view of this charade of publicity competition between the lame ducks of Labour and the Tories, if Polanski can actually rally his cadre and party behind one vision they may actually perform much better in a General Election, to which they are most likely now more oriented.
Absolutely no one cares about this except that voting bloc which threatens to shift to Reform, who are themselves non-voters on climate issues. Labour is in the jaws of a political wolf and Badenoch must claw back through successful appeals to political respectability her parties loss at the hands of Reform.
>>2944638>Uh, why don't you use Google for meFuck off retard
>>2944640>I can't be bothered to articulate my point myself, but there's some article out there that totally proves me right!Alright thanks for playing anon, I accept your concession. Now just don't be making ridiculous claims that you can't back up again ok?
>>2944645Yes mate we're all playing some big game inside your head
>Ha, that means I win!
>>2944638the women's institute has been trans inclusive since the 1970s but was forced to ban transgender women by the recent ruling. labour party women's groups did likewise. girl guides (scouts) and even trivial things like a "women's bird watching group" are not allowed to include transgender women.
basic freedom of association is banned. as has also been repeatedly mentioned, NHS policy has become incoherent (but the concrete matter of someone having a headstone doesn't matter to you, that's obviously just an isolated case, haha.)
more than this, anti transgender beliefs are protected against discrimination. if the green party refuses to select you as a candidate because you're anti-trans and party policy is pro-trans, you can sue them. Both greens and lib Dems have been successfully sued by socially conservative cranks because they weren't given candidacies for these liberal parties.
here's a fun one: the NZ courts recently overturned their government's decision to ban puberty blockers for trans kids on the (correct) grounds that the ban was discriminatory and violated their bill of rights act, since cisgender kids are still prescribed them. The NZ government justified this move because the UK did it. The UK has had no such moment of reflection and continues this discriminatory practice where a medicine perfectly permissible in one case is banned in the other, rather than leaving the decision to doctors, parents and patients.
(It should be noted that the NZ government has a very conservative coalition partner and that the mainstream centre-right party always seems faintly ashamed to be reduced to transhumanistbaiting, and instead of appealing, responded by vagueposting. NZ labour by comparison has consistently decried the government's culture war slop.)
this is how a normal country (acting idiotically and trying to follow the lead of an insane one because of misplaced historical nostalgia and as a down payment on using our flag on theirs, but still) behaves.
>>2944648Im sorry friend, I just don't think your position is very serious. My apology if I offended you during this argument
>>2944649It does
>>2944652I agree completely that the UK's stances towards transgender people are terrible and that the discrimination is getting worse and more permissible, both legally/politically and on a social level. That seems to me like a clear and worrying trend, regardless of whether it's labeled as genocide or whatever else.
What do you think it is about the UK in particular that has caused this? Like I said, my own and many other countries are not super dissimilar from the UK in terms of their relation to imperialism or anything and yet do not have this excessive fascination with discriminating or undermining transness, it exists but nowhere near on the same level
>>2944637No its not lmao, theres lots of opportunity. You would be a looser anywhere at any time.
>>2944628He should apologies for
- Being an opportunist
- His father being a disgusting new left liberal
- For being weak
>>2944677Any opportunities are inherently capped by being in this shithole. I'm a winner because I've a ticket to emigration and already LARP as a foreigner online so I'm not tainted by the lameness of this shithole.
>>2944713Which Green and Pleasant land are you off to?
>>2944713Nah your just a looser , you where born in one of the most privileged places on earth yet still only moan. You can literally earn 50 times the global median income just by studying in school.
>>2944727Bruh, the average student takes on 70 grand in debt in degree fields with slowed employment due to sustained and further oncoming downturns.
Likewise minimum wage employment remains the only opportunity or avenue for many into employment in fields such as social care that destroy any capacity to save or quality of life.
The median salary is a graduate dream and slipping further into irrelevance whilst gentrification displaces cities starved of the capacity to deliver affordable transport, healthcare waiting times, or education that actually exceeds in providing youth the opportunity to achieve an education beyond that of their parents.
Your country is rotting.
>>2944739>>2944727I can understand the argument, we aren't children mining rare earth minerals in equitorial Africa, but not does that economic certainty translate beyond those basic rights secured by the antique labour laws of our nations long dead labour movements.
The country putrifies under the dead weight of its enterprise in delivering private sector contracts to the likes of its housing and healthcare sectors whilst refusing to tax corporate profits which finance nothing of regional development except growing debt.
There is no longer an affordable lifestyle in this country. For the majority of renters (home ownership stands around 50% and favours the older generation who bought in when mortgages were cheap) life offers absolutely nothing but the certainty of work and the probability of death.
>>2944745nor does that economic certainty*
>>2944716Canada via bf in the medium term
<Oh but canada isn't perfect, it's expensive and cold and might be invaded by the US and…all true, Canada is a country with many problems but it has a future and Britain does not. People do not generally think of Canada as an actively malicious and self harming nation.
>>2944727Britain may be materially privileged in a relative sense but it is culturally barren (except for the thriving "podcast complaining about how shit Britain is for comedy" industry) and utterly backwards looking. It is ugly. It is nasty. There are few positive associations and many negative ones. Yank liberals used to envy us, now they laugh at us, and they're right to do so.
It doesn't have to be this way, strictly, the was a lot of good in British culture historically, but now it's all about leaning into the worst of it and nothing is going to set things right. Do everything in your power to avoid going down with the ship.
>>2945062This is amazing to watch as someone outside of the UK. Soon y'all are going to have a cop in your house, and he's going to humiliate you whenever you jerk off
>>2945062You vill naht do the face sitting nor sucking of the cock
UND YOU VILL BE HAPPY >>2945062I can't wait for the labourreich to ban blowjobs!
>>2945094He always gave off weird vibes to me, would not surprise me if it were true
>>2942058>Butt drops>Trampling fantasyExcuse me?
>>2945094All around weirdo, i will be completely unsurprised if so.
>>2944716>Which Green and Pleasant land are you off to?Ireland. Have you not considered moving to ireland? You should. It is better, the housing is cheaper, the grass greener and more pleasant, and so.
>>2945062>giving head increases risk of cancerIf I die, I die
It's genuinely amazing just how far this country has managed to fall in a decade. Even in 2015 you'd have Americans sort of looking over to us as a place with a few problems, but still basically lib paradise by their standards. Now they're laughing at us, deservedly. The camera men are laughing at us, deservedly. The place is a joke. And it's not like America has been on a big run of successes, either. They managed to elect Trump, have him fumble a coup against the senile old man who replaced him, and then elect him again, only for him to lead them into a string of foreign and domestic policy humiliations… and the American liberals are still laughing at us, not one in fifty of them would trade places. Whatever goes wrong they can point at us and go: yeah, but we're not them, fuck off and get your teeth fixed. (can't mate, dentist hasn't taken new NHS patients since Obama)
It'd be one thing to live in a place with nice living standards that has experienced such an aura drop. It'd be another to live in a place that was poor, but had aura. It takes some level of grotesque mismanagement to manage to fuck both the real and the imagined version of a country so badly. Put the whole island of great britain in a 600 mile tall jar of formaldehyde so the lesions can be studied by future scientists.
>>2945663 monty python, absolute geniuses. Truly ahead of their time.
>>2945566Is this the worst false flag 'attack' of all time? I mean not even the median voter can fall for this.
>>2936831Worst collection of images i've seen in a while
>>2945604I told everyone for years that we shouldn't tolerate insane feminists, but everyone insisted on coddling their feelings, now here we are
>>2945966if you think the former director of the blairite think tank "progress", who wrote to andy burnham back when he was health secretary in the late 2000s to complain that his presumption that the NHS should be the preferred provider of NHS services
damn the 2000s were wacky was fucking up their privatisation grift was actually just playing the long game in pursuit of a feminist agenda, you've an overactive imagination.
the underlying problem in britain is nothing so banal as feminism. a country run by a feral press corps, an underlying presumption that nobody should be allowed to do anything without a good reason, a uniparty system of government composed of no less than 4 separate parties, and whatever the fuck is going on down on tufton street. hurt as many feminist feelings as you want, things will stay exactly the same.
David Walliams has tried to block the media from all reporting on his "alleged" sex crimes, rapes, etc, with his defence team in court claiming he'd said he'd commit suicide if the full extent of it all was made public. But he also claims he's entirely innocent. Try squaring that circle.
Oh, forgot to mention it's technically illegal to mention the alleged individual's name right now since the identity is supposed to be secret (within the UK)! Whoopsie!
In any case if you Google it he's going by the codename PPT in the court proceedings. The reporting restrictions should be lifted in about a week anyways.
I always assumed he was gay growing up as well…
On that note, ain't it absolutely mental how the royals can block any story they think will harm them from being published?
Not only that, but the amount of times they use this power is also secret.
If we know about Andrew, then what don't we know? What is worse than his actions?
Just another reason to sharpen the guillotines…
>that yank senator telling sky news he doesn't care what the UK thinks, doesn't want any votes from the UK, and that like 5 people watch sky news anyway
Absolute kino
>>2946218>his defence team in court claiming he'd said he'd commit suicide if the full extent of it all was made publicSo they're not immediately putting him into a psychatric hospital after he says that ? That's normal procedure normally for suicide blackmail
Made myself sad by enjoying the US midterms and then realising nothing similar will ever happen in Britain. Bleak, bleak, bleak shithole.
>>2947104Even worse, none of the protests (which have engaged hundreds of thousands of young people) have spread from the continent.
Britain is wet tinder.
>>2944628Had Liz Truss won back in the days Britain would have an economy, trans rights unmollested, and gammons sent to hell. Halas it is 2026, what is to be said?
>>2946021>"feminism have nothing to do with what feminists do or wathever"I even agree with some of your post but: Please.
>>2947132Do you consider Andy Burnham and Keir Starmer as socialists and lay the blame for their actions at the door of the pernicious influence of socialism in this country?
Interesting perspective on race and class.
The cockneys feel kinship with the negro.
The same has been said for the Irish and Polish, as well.
It seems to me that race is largely a class concept. Marx (1870):
<The ordinary English worker hates the Irish worker as a competitor who lowers his standard of life. In relation to the Irish worker he regards himself as a member of the ruling nation and consequently he becomes a tool of the English aristocrats and capitalists against Ireland, thus strengthening their domination over himself. He cherishes religious, social, and national prejudices against the Irish worker. His attitude towards him is much the same as that of the “poor whites” to the Negroes in the former slave states of the U.S.A.. The Irishman pays him back with interest in his own money. He sees in the English worker both the accomplice and the stupid tool of the English rulers in Ireland.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1870/letters/70_04_09.htm>>2947195Enter into this discussion that liberty by which parents may make of their children their own and not others. Such that schooling and free time seem nothing to the child but some such slavery to a poorly fathered ambition and hopes that reflect nothing of their parenting.
Society has as of yet to enter that stage of its development when child care becomes truly universal, and not discarding parents renders them but central to the main of society which cares for sick and well as old and young in the common or otherwise public ownership of societies productive forces, developed so that healthcare, education, and all sources of employments are for the benefit of its people and not the long buried foundation of profit.
>>2947201>>2947195Such to say that they see the child as the model of the bourgeois individual, distanced only from their ideas of personal possession by that love that spares them the cruelty of abuse.
That these individuals see their children's upbringing not as another's but as their own is indicative of that fashion by which they are socialised within capitalism to see others as competitors in the general war of labour for its exploitation, and in it view themselves as the active agents of their own existence as a commodity whereas the time of others and their being is a possession.
This speaks absolute yards about the realities of class rule within British society; Adorno phrases it best when he writes that leisure has become the occupation of reproduction of exploitation in being nothing more than that other-side of employment.
These craven morons see in society contempt and in it opportunity as such for their own individual and hence collective enrichment, extending into Westminster as Wall Street to Washington, as its parties well turned in their intent for the maintenance of war and the division of wealth that sees poverty explode where the likes of Burnham and Badenoch find support among their ranks for their ideas of bourgeois democracy and the imperialist structure of capitalism.
These individuals hate their children. That social care is a misery for them is a reflection of their own miserable view that money must be the basis of their society as commodities their secular religion.
>>2947140Yes? People are what they say they are and they represent what they say they represent. The top-down transphobia in the UK as we see currently is a creation of the left/feminists and spearheaded by leftist figures, it's not Nigel Farrage and UKIP that did any of this.
Saying otherwise is a "Jews have nothing to do with Israel" tier argument.
I do not care to salvage the reputation of a movement that have acomplished all of it's legal goals and is now a headless chicken seeking to enslave everyone to any random hypocondriac geriatric female's feelings. With the benediction of the the Labour party and jounos.
>>2947195They really want to youth enslaved to gammons forever is another aspect of this, think of Indian/Chinese style filial piety bullshit antics. Prepare for "grandparent rights" to become a thing and feminists throwing their weight behind them because le wholesome proto-feminist granny or wathever.
>>2947222I see. Please hand over your wallet for inspection.
>>2947195LGB without the T bros, how could this happen???
>>2947362and recieving nothing in return*
>>2947195What is it about rightoids and constantly furiously searching for loopholes to snake slavery back into society? Literally every single policy or issue rightoids talk about, if pushed to its logical conclusion, ends with human ownership in one form of the other.
>>2947374Slavers already won, they're bringing back Workfare again lol
>>2947362What's your issue with this correct statement? Sultana tried to make Your Party work but it was impossible
>>2947403It's correct because it is well framed; her messaging now sells what is popular for what isn't.
It was impossible because of the incipient duplicity in its own design; she is half in half out. She will not commit to an actual socialist position but will reign in her statements for acceptability, never wagering more than she is prepared to risk. Individuals in her and other constituencies die from ill funded healthcare, suffer from decrepit life circumstances in housing, education destroying life outcomes based on a caste of wealth alloted by regional divisions, and will not denounce her own class within their own chamber.
The party failed because it is unprepared to commit to this. As fault lines shift and divisions within the political earth deepen, the British proletariat are sinking into the grave of immiseration. Why vote for these individuals?
They are not socialists. They will stand on positions of war which afford only popularity in sensibility which does not jeopardise their wider affluence in electoral success, they do not plan to succeed beyond vague affirmations the likes of offering nationalisation which they cannot divide their own party towards but rather against itself.
You term it impossible and in so doing remove any idea that a) legitimate internationalist positions exist and that b) there is any fault. They cannot sanction even among the likes of the SWP, which she intended to fold into her vote share for the party, the removal of the wage system.
Thus the disdain. She could have chosen any opportunity before this to denounce the imperialist division of the world system, a term she will not use, to decry the international buildup for war
Instead these ducks swim in their ponds of self-fortune where such issues are never challenged.
They will not challenge the wage system because it will not sell, or rather they cannot sell it.
>>2947419>>2947403The closest Sultana has come within the chamber to publicly denouncing her own class is as a 'Westminster' bubble.
She will use terms such as 'class enemies' where it succeeds in its technical alliteration for what she knows as a category she either does not understand, class itself, or knows well and simply continues on a course such as this.
Ask her if class exists and she will say yes. Ask her if she believes however in ideas such as Permanent Revolution and she will say no. She is there are the bootleg saler of petite bourgeois positions.
>>2947426there as the bootleg
Apologies, it is freezing cold and I'm out in it.
>>2947419Their problems are of a different nature. Whatever the flaws of their position, if they could organise worth a damn that wouldn't be a problem. I mean consider Scottish Labour's 2026 manifesto, surely the most unappealing document ever slopped together by human hands, with a worthless leader and a party deeply associated with the least popular government in living memory and… well, they came third, sure, but Your Party didn't even manage to cross the first hurdle and fill in the form to run candidates! Scottish Labour, the go-to example of institutionalised failure and incompetence, is my example of the basic standard Your Party failed to meet!
Give me 500 competent activists, a budget of say £50,000-100,000k (at the lower end, about 10% of YORPs total fundraising, incidentally. e.g. Scotland's population share), and a candidate who can read a script and has the slightest level of personableness and I will give you an MSP of any ideological underpinning you like. Especially in 2026, perhaps the perfect Scottish election for such a party. (Centre-left electorate, Greens slightly tarnished by being in government, SNP
deeply unpopular but Labour unable to make up the difference, and an utterly unenthusing campaign… If that's not an open goal, this isn't football.)
>>2947403>>2947419>>2947426These individuals are bartering collectively their own fates.
If they wish to deny the build up for war and instead detain themselves in the grooming of popularity by only sending comuniques through bourgeois media channels - if they wish to ignore and only selectively pick at the issue when it becomes politically valent - then have it.
>>2947374She's not a 'toid but a pure product of British leftism and her ideas were mainstream among the left until some relevant people realized something was wrong with radfems and transphobic leftists in like 2019.
She's also a ziorat israel-first deadender that would kill every single white children to save one west-bank settler like 99% of anti-trans activists and politicians but that goes without saying in 2026.
>>2947441Stock joined Labour in 2015 specifically to vote against Corbyn and then let her membership lapse. Her broad worldview is only normal amongst the British "left" because Labour is a right-wing party. Even there, it's not entirely true to say her beliefs were mainstream: modern TERFism as a backlash against 2015-20 progressivism is a weird as fuck freak idea that came to prominence much, much more recently than old fashioned homophobic-transphobia. (which
was mainstream.)
As has been noted ITT before: before we even had the ability to legally change sex, the NHS was putting transgender women on women's wards because in most cases that's the pragmatic ad-hoc decision you'd make. (pragmatic ad-hoc muddling through decisions being a point of pride in British self-conception) this weird, rigidly defined, categorical ban on making such decisions is some new horrible thing eating the country from within.
That's the true tragedy of Britain. If it were simply ontologically evil, one could ignore it. But there's so much potential, so much capacity to be an average country or even a pretty good one, and instead we've managed to assemble the most shameful shitshow on earth. >>2947430It isn't just systematic incompetence but the breeding of a doctrine within their electoral base which offers nothing.
Corbyn is bankrupt, and so too these individuals who ride their coattails.
I care most of all for the dead they will not remember. They will chastise and lament thoroughly the staring of wars but seem only to care in their seeking of approval those means which betray or undermine their own direction.
Their refusal to committ to this wider connection means they end up engaging in countless marches, countless party processes, that serve simply to structure a political class of its own making that wishes to medicate the ills of British bourgeois capitalist society and not end them.
If she wishes to take a position on war, engage in a critique not just of Burnham but the dead wood that is British society. Its poor, its ill, its unfated.
Until that time it is just the incessant scheming of a politician who realising they are baseless knows they cannot out themselves of their own position. She is trapped. No party will finance her reelection and as a result is engaging in these petty forrays into her constituent's consciences to appeal for later support, meaning nothing.
It is at an end. As these supposed socialists attempt to outflank their opposition, the wheel of British politics separates from its axis; what now turns in the ebbing of fortunes within Britain's ruling classes denies legitimate representation of authentic counter positions which ten or so years ago it began to deny.
The Home Office charge of terror is the prosecution of imprisonment for political purposes prohibited ideals, and is a single step on the way to the precedent of outright proscription for political movements on par with the original banning of trade unions within the 19th century.
What has begun now cannot be stopped. The course of events underway will swallow all these individuals in their own planning, either in the outbreak of war, the succession of ever more Fascist positions, or environmental disaster and with it the collapse in distribution and production chains that begins the working of nature.
Britain either must change her course to an internationalist socialist position or face barbarism. She does not see this, will not, and sleeps not in a tent under a bridge, not in a room among five in a hostel, not in a two bed council flat dependent on housing benefit, but among her own.
>>2947459Starting of wars*
>>2947459>>2947434But ask her for her position on housing, and know her mind: "it should be free" she thinks, as this will mortgage her advance among her circle of like minded petite bourgeois idealists.
Sultana however, having been educated well in her own counsel, knows well the course she must take. She must sell the political irrespectability of her idea (but why this is, Sultana will not say) with what can further her profile publicly.
Between the two, where do we land? Only on what we know, that wages are too low, that housing needs to be affordable, that the economy does nor serve her workers.
The SWP nod, pliantly. How correct she is!
And the socialists? Who knows, Britain has none. We must, after all, work for a living.
Has the RCP deployed a chatbot to /leftybritpol/ lol
>>2947572Yeah, it's capable of conscious thought unlike you
What would you do if a tsunami came in and cut Barry Island off from the mainland while you were at the Gavin & Stacey experience theme park?
>>2947909And you had to survive for 7 weeks
>>2947909>>2947911Wank myself into oblivion and then not exist.
>>2947909>>2947911Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
>>2935390why do leftists always talk about jewish supremacism (zionism) in the context of israel? why is it never put into the context of western, american politics? yea, what's going on in palestine is more sensational and objectively barbaric, but they would do that to the west in a heart beat if they thought they could do it.
>>2948028To what end?
That the exceptionalists would obliterate western society? The two are so in tune that the keys sing to each other; Israeli support is enmeshed in the arterial channels of US politics such that any distinction appears blood for blood, even if democratic nominees congratulate each other in their anti-victories.
It is an imperialist plan. It hurts the nerve of Israel what sustains injury in Congress or the Senate, hence the sensational spending of THE primary lobby which guides US thought, AIPAC - the Israeli lobby, similar to Israeli friends of Labour, and so and so.
Irony strikes in that the democrats, in overturning the Republican majority, have yet to intend their victory. They may launch their reelection platform successfully upon impeachment, war, the economy, and succeed, or may shatter in being divided as a result of the administration's sustained effort to divide and rule.
Even in defeat the course is not certain. The Democratic party has malformed into a twisted limb of the military state, and in their public denials profess what sustains the Republicans: Ukraine, and Iran.
As well, the Republican administration is rotating carriers into range of Iran. Practical guidance in the state of war, and all its attendants - the staffing amongst the MIC, inseparable from state investment in its financial conglomerations - necessitates that foreign policy guide a single line through US decline.
Israel is instrumental in this. Resistance to the Palestinian genocide is a useful counter weight in rebalancing a political casts which finds in it nothing but uselessness. It does not intend to end this, else Biden would have acted. The political prisoners it now frees into the halls of its chambers - the Congress and the Senate - will work against the administration only to the extent that they may promise re-election (oh, but a common thread!)
The Israelis are an end for this purpose. Striking what serves them well is only in equal to what its political organs must likewise calculate: its planners must plan around these events and decide which parts of its war it may afford, which parts it must trade in acknowledging the extent of British and US support.
Fundamentally, there is no difference. The dead of Palestine lay strewn upon the massacre of capital, and their blood seeps into the Mediterranean unnoticed. Either party remains in the orbit of its own policy of repression unleashed; the Israelis have been free to conduct their war as a result of the developments within western society which counterposes individual liberties and specular wealth against the total freedoms of the Proletariat.
This babble is to say that Zionism does not come from nowhere, and will not amputate its head in order to preserve its body. In the general panic, the Republicans are likely to be torn apart by impeachment and the economy, and are eager to jettison Trump as he is for their own survival.
AIPAC will live on, adapting. Israeli society will dredge itself upon the ashes of its own defeat and society will reconcile in common political speech the acceptability of denying by ever tacit shades the atrocity it has allowed.
Nothing however will change. Winter comes as summer does and aging these causes, which allow Westminster to renegotiate the terms of its capture as the servant and faithful creature of the US, mark the still living opponents to the genocide as its martyrs.
Polanski, Corbyn, Sultana, their parties, all will decry victory, in the best of circumstances of this little fantasy. And all of you know this well: it is meaningless. The dead remain dead, nothing will change this. Yes, a genocide has been overturned but the instruments remain.
These idiots imagine that piece by piece they'll undo their hate and turn it into an Eden. Israeli hatred will turn inward and perhaps in its domestication tame its youth. But crises still grow, this is undeniable.
What, Sultana, Polanski, Corbyn? Answer.
A wealth tax? You will tax money and from money grow like capital to undo sorrowful debt, financed by hope for kindness, or like Abbott butter, or sow seeds like scrapping Trident.
The economy sinks, globally. A recession is dawning that demands austerity. Conflict ferments in Ukraine, guided by none other than the British state.
Joblessness, homelessness, despair, all of these quicken at a pace none are prepared for, because in the self delusion of this minor victory they content themselves with their ideals and not the facts.
Israel is not a loose dog. The realignment of the international political complex emboldens the worse of the political edifice into the belief that it may accomplish what later it will deliberately destroy.
To endure this perpetual stupidity, to endure the civil discussions of workers who pin their hopes to such people and parties, because they will not listen having been taught to value life and society not in its common existence but something simply to serve them like a commodity, is maddening. Individuals who speak of liberty and find at the end of their speech their own shackles tightened, because it affords them that servile need to - oh, how it continues! - prognosticate, prophesie, and speak endlessly about whatever self-obsession serves their ego.
Apologies I've been drinking and fucking despise the people I've met today.
>>2948068rebalancing a political caste*
>>2948068>>2948028It could well be that the flailing of the administration in the US bankrolls its desire and ignites this war against Iran, using Israel as David's stone against the Goliath
In either case, the succession of victory by either faction demands obedience to its overwhelming maintenance of its capital structure; the intent of the likes of its properties classes, the bourgeoisie, only shifts in that light of air which exits finds its way back in.
She, the US, will still prosecute her wars. Endless the bloodshed of Ukraine and in it apocalypse of invasion in Europe, and with it the retreat of its own retreat: it will maintain its troop deployments, slow the course of its general exit, and tend to Russia not as its partner for oil but as an enemy to be destroyed.
Iran, what it wins, will be tournique'ed; peace settlements will pressure administrations within the gulf into further civil repression which already crushes its Egyptian, its Turkish, and likewise its foreign import labour markets. Libya here, remaining by design, a non-entity where slave sales are purchased at the expense of the US dollar (we came, we saw, he died!)
China in turn will fall into its aim. Chinese chip production will be throttled further and sanctions tended where it cannot stem the bleeding in its own economy for debt maintenance and import costs in vital industries in which the US state finds itself integrated.
It is pathetic to imagine that this ends; this servile slaves of capital walk, strut, run in halls which afford them their lives. The life of a woman dependent on naxoline tonight after shivering in the cold, incapable of navigating society except as an animal of addiction means nothing.
The lives of the residential housing carers who must work their night shifts, wiping human faeces into plastic bags twenty a dozen for thirty residents, torn between paperwork which means nothing except management liabilities and risk of unemployment means nothing to these people.
Ask them names of the workers they have met who have come to them telling them their plight. Ideals, of Stop The War coalition, sink into mediocrity and then irony in the fact that they stand only to mobilise that flank of workers who find contentment not in deposing war itself but simply in abstaining from action as a class by placating a self-serving need to charge through streets imagining themselves as heroes from their favourite films.
Exchange predominates in each, and likewise each for each. None imagine what they are capable of: solidarity. They see it as some tool that must work through its institution, feeding idiots with ideas transcribed into placards that read "Jollof rice for all!", and the vapid inability to organise meaningfully orchestrated by that symphony of their planning evaporates.
Your Party suffers onwards, almost as a mockery cursed to exist as a tragic clown cursed to parody in the infinite speech of its brain-dead membership legitimate talking points.
At least each meets their end daily, sleep, and in sleeping may unconsciously dream of what isn't rather than what is.
Perhaps human freedom is to fall asleep, comfortably. Oh, how comfortable our ruling class must be.
Apologies, to conclude this miserable rant:
There is no greater parody in capitalist bourgeois society than the likes of Thunberg.
Her sad speeches in Polanski's podcasts are indicative of the inability of workers to critically engage with ideas, being sold cheap anachronistic intents (unceasing these politicians are) and speeches which resonate only in that capacity to lash by word of mouth action.
Not even so, her popularity is based on the inverted existence of capital; shifts originating within the ruling class which bankrolled her original speech now outlive their existence in her.
She, too, is a creature of capital now made steady by that appearance which serves Britain's workers only in the sale back to themselves of their own existences; her name is branded upon everyone, as a sign not of hope but the threat of decay.
Likewise to hear her speak is again, a sad parody. She has no idea beyond what popularity has afforded as to what actual collaboration means; ideals are sold and traded. Society must be organised scientifically, etcetera.
There is no intent to inform, to educate, or to liberate. The commercialisation of her position through social media and among its users bank roll its antithesis. This itself is no sin, but that she herself and the circle in which she moves is of a type: they cannot imagine actual change.
Thus ends the Fresnel windowed thought of these bastions of civil society with vague diatribes. No revolutionary blood flows in these dead ends, but the endless transmission of slogans which thrash upon the skulls of workers the endless repetition of a single-party state the repetitive idea that they must fear themselves as a class.
I despise these people. There is no outlet for this, apologies for the wall of text.
>>2948428Yeah, because if you let people "free" they will kill, rape and steal, the state was born for a reason, that not to says that all state organization are good.
Fwiw, we've just passed the point where cocaine has finally overtaken heroin as the drug responsible for the most deaths in the UK.
British rivers are absolutely filled to the brim with coke and other drugs excreted in our piss and it's one of the biggest issues British freshwater fish currently face.
Also, Dundee still remains the drug death capital of Europe.
Honestly feel like this is an issue that's barely touched by politicians anymore they're scared of trying anything new to deal with help those suffering from addiction.
What do you think is the solution anons?
>>2948433Fucks sake I've gotten so used to the power comes from voting meme that this genuinely flashbanged me
>>2948433I think your biggest gripes with state is their relative power and the risk of abuse, not with the structure of state itself.
>>2948438The solution is more money for treatment programs and better housing for homeless people, but that costs money so it won't happen obviously, the immoral majority don't give a shit about homeless people and/or addicts dying, it reduces the welfare bill
it's fireworks night innit
people celebrating the extreme torture and brutal execution of catholics who tried to assassinate the king and blow up parliament
all the dogs gonna be scared too smh
>>2948469>biggest gripeI'm being purely descriptive, not normative.
The only thing that bothers me is ignorant statists who think the state is a thing over and above society and humanity, like God on earth. The state is an abstraction, enforced by organised ruling class violence.
>>2948438Heroin = grimey and sad
Cocaine = festive
>>2948506>all the dogs gonna be scared too smhI didn't realise they tried to help blow up parliament
Mark Fisher really did blunder writing that vampire castle essay didn't he
>>2948788Probably more in buying the rope.
>>2948710Reform is the official Republican party of the UK
Why's Tom Riddle called Tom Riddle?
That's the Riddle.
Decent read, with a choice quote:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/11/04/bcjn-n04.htmlBurnham, King Charles and the dead end of apologies and reparations for slavery
>[…]
>The reparations movement knows this. It is dominated by heads of government who administer the brutal exploitation of their own citizens on behalf of global corporations and banks, supported by privileged layers of the black petty-bourgeoisie in their own countries and in the imperialist centres. Its leaders utilise the issue for their own self-advancement and, in the case of the African and West Indian political elite, to posture as friends of the workers and rural poor whose lives they make a misery.>>2949069Continued further down:
>[…]
>The reparations movement wins popular support from a sincere hatred of the crimes of slavery and colonialism. But its leadership seeks only a renegotiation of the terms on which the former colonies are exploited within world imperialism, through apologies, debt rescheduling and development funds, while maintaining their own seat at the table. >>2949071Lastly:
>[…]
>Moreover, reparations are conceived as transfers between states. The money would be administered by the same national ruling elites that preside over poverty, IMF austerity and the super-exploitation of workers.A keener point, with explicit semblance of the fact that the interpenetration of capital circuits in the deeping technical integration of global production, and in its perpetual revolution, is at the point of force leading to re-distributions in the imperialist economies to the point of their virtual coexistence through trade and yet the heightened contradiction of their antagonisms (among their ruling classes).
Any systematic reorganisation of sovereign debt structures would be adjudicated by an international class which in devising wealth transfers would through reconstruction, even in offering partial debt relief, invent in the course of capital investment ever heightened and yet more exploitative measures of value extraction.
Has any country in history ever had a reputational falloff like the UK? Again, I really can't emphasize enough the basic fact that just over a decade ago we could still unambiguously feel smugly superior to Americans, and now we're known for economic decline, political instability, bigotry, and inexplicably banning facesitting and blowjobs. A farcical place. A sinking clown ship.
>>2949343Tough one, I feel like there's probably other examples, the only one that comes to mind is Germany under the Nazis I guess, though they weren't amazingly respected to begin with. Napoleonic France maybe. I feel like maybe you're overestimating things though, Americans have been making fun of our lack of freedoms for years and Europeans have been making fun of our backwards ways for years
>>2948788looking at that with hindsight, I'm glad that I
belatedly swung full heartedly behind woke and realised that the whole "anti idpol leftist" schtick condemned one to irrelevance at best and useful idiot status at worst.
well, i say full heartedly. really i've embraced it as the civic religion that it is, rather than the politics it appears to be. this is a point apt to be misunderstood by people who think we can go without a civic religion, or that the ones they imagine in their head are better than the choices actually on offer. no, i don't care about your proposal we all sing hymns to the red flag and agree not to talk about women and gays. the civic religions actually on offer are to take the knee to stop racism in a well-meaning but naff display of awareness, or offer up human sacrifices to baal God Emperor Trump on live television. i'd sooner be cancelled by the former than elevated to high office by the latter. Jac Cymro pleads guilty to owning terrorist material (including manuals on guerrilla warfare, an IRA manual, and the Anarchist cookbook (!!)). His mental health is mentioned. He will become an informant. Sentencing is in January. I feel bad for him despite ideological differences because he was a militant republican at least and I was wrong about him being a fascist (though he has associated with fascists).
https://newyddion.s4c.cymru/article/dyn-wynedd-pledion-euog-llawlyfr-ira-feddiant>>2949343I would say the Ottoman empire after WWI but that would be unfair.
>>2949081>wealth transfers would through reconstructionThat is really optimistic. The money will follow the path of the development funds already sent: poorly allocated when it is not lost to corruption and with close to 0 results.
Nick Tenconi - current leader of UKIP - who literally seig heils in public, wears a Nazi style armband, and changed his party logo to an Iron Cross - posted a video of himself on Youtube the other day
Doing what?
He and his gang of fascist coked up football hooligans break into a church that has a SUTR stall inside holding some event to raise funds and hand out pamphlets, and they harass and attack the woman running said stall, try to drag her out the building, while claiming he's reclaiming the church from marxists and communists.
So many weird things here.
Firstly, why the fuck would you upload yourself committing crimes to youtube?
Why hasn't he been arrested for the trespass, property damage, and assault that he recorded himself doing?
Why target SUTR, who are mostly moderate liberal / socdem types who always stand far back from any real counter demos?
Why was this video forcibly recommended to me by Youtube? lately i've noticed far right shit being pushed on my algorithm much harder even though I never watch it and always click "not interested"
Why has it got 200k views? Who are these 200k people watching a fascist attack a woman in a church and cheering it on? Surely its largely bots?
What the fuck is happening?
>>2949432With you there, its not the idea of "anti-idpol" that annoys me, it's that with very few exceptions, anti-idpol types will almost always use it as an excuse to shit on minorities (I.E trans people just to give one example)
>>2949851>Firstly, why the fuck would you upload yourself committing crimes to youtube?They will get away with it, that is why.
>>2949500Wait wait wait, I had seen his account on twitter. Do we reckon this is why Dan Evans deleted his twitter considering he interacted with him a lot?
>>2949895Anti-Idpol Left™ want itself to be inheritor of the vitalistic & visionary Bolshevik culture but every attempts produced nothing besides "progressive libertine-liberal but anti-trans" which is uninteresting and incoherent, or unfertile bobo transgressions that amount to weird sexo stuff and bad art (Redscarepodcast, Russel Brand). Both ended up with Israel and GWOT politics at the center of their God Shaped Hole for some reasons.
>>2945566>Seeing a new conintelpro operation take place. "OSINT" account falsely claims that a PalAction-esque group has destroyed "gear for Ukraine", seen by 100,000s. Looked into it, the firm doesn't supply any gear to Ukraine.Isnt new, they did the same thing after the Earthquake Faction (earthquakefaction.net) action. All the news stories were how it was an anti-ukranian attack.
>>2950288What about Jewish cyclists?
Chav girl with big tits taking it up the arse.
>>2950590A rememberance most sore
>>2950613The banging of the drum
TERF columnist and petit bourgeois PR/marketing firm owner? janet murray currently trawling for parents to tell her about furries in their kids schools lol, we really do just feed off american tablescraps
furries are such a revealing thing for this mindset. they're either too retarded to do basic research on the subjects they're mad about (someone who goes "i actually identify as an animal" is a therian, not a furry. i'm not going to tell you to take them seriously, but get it right.) or they've become negatively polarised against the very concept of self expression.
and of course they all let slip that they do, in fact, have the socially conservative mind virus because the new pathogen in their community is "if your kids tell you they're gay, you as a parent should say 'no you're not, stop being a faggot'"
>>2950753>the concept of self-expressionIndividualism ought to be critiqued.
>>2950754most of modern individualism is technologically determined and we're not going to give up the relevant technologies, so critique or attack (and the thrust here is attack, not critique) is just masturbatory unless you're doing it mcluhan style where the purpose is to illustrate the technology rather than police behaviour.
unless it's the last sunday of october, you cannot turn back the clock.
that is, of course, granting the premise that self expression and collectivity are opposed, which is a bold proposal to advance on leftypol.org. at once i express myself, and subsume myself into the collective, by means of tedious posting.
>>2950765>most of modern individualism is technologically determinedIt depends more on relations of production, precedent to the means. The reason why a phone isolates us from one another is not because of the phone itself, but because we are already isolated (e.g. division of labour, and so on). The phone itself could do something opposite.
>you cannot turn back the clockYou are fallaciously presuming some sort of fatalism where because we invented smartphones, we all have to be asocial idiots.
>the premise that self expression and collectivity are opposedIn the same way that to Marx, "value" is immediately social, it requires first, the anti-social aspect of division. To confuse the form in which products appear, and the way they are produced, is incorrect, though. All individualism is expressed collectively, because everyone is made into an individual, as a consequence of capitalist social relations. In the state of nature, are men really as they appear to be within society?
>once i express myself, and subsume myself into the collectiveThe collective is as bad as the individual. Both reinforce each other.
The point of criticising individualism is not to become a collectivist.
>>2950786i would dispute the premise that the phone isolates us from one another, which is mostly a cliche. even under present relations of production, the phone brings people together as much as it pushes them apart. what it changes, and what it would change under any mode of production, is
who it brings together and pushes apart. it makes geography almost irrelevant and makes other factors (like common interest) more relevant. speaking personally, i like the trade.
we are not asocial idiots. we socialise in new ways. if there is such a thing as human nature, it is social. whenever someone posits that new technology has made us asocial, they're always pining for something that has never existed. "we never have conversations with strangers on the bus anymore" has been a complaint since the days of newspapers. people generally attack the present from the basis of an imagined past, rather than what the past was actually like. for every stardew valley fantasy, there's the underlying privation of actual peasant life…
(this is what morrisey misses. as big picture things like towns or countries become more homogenous, there's an explosion in difference elsewhere. isolated to your home town you'd be lucky to find
a communist, now you can find an entire community of MAGAcommunists, or furry communists, and within 5 years i've got a bet on there being a thriving circle of neoliberal communist substackers if that's your thing. there's never been a better time in human history for diversity of random bullshit people have unified around.)
anyway, let's not do a back and forth line-by-line quoteposting abomination. it might not be antisocial, but it's anti everything else good in the world. put forward a critique of individualism if you have one. sketch out what you would have happen instead of the status quo. maybe i'll agree, maybe i'll disagree, probably both.
The height of hilarity: Corbyn's online petition is being carried alone by the online membership of other parties desperate for one.
Still, a country intent in its suffusion of images and counter images in the prosecution of its genocide, cannot be bothered to add their name to its inquest.
Thus the amuple of peace runs in this nation like black tar heroin, sold to them by the idiots who promise them a political afterlife in the tranquility of their own exploitation
This misery extends not just to Your Party but the Greens, whose members will scold you with the pornography of their own misery by simply sharing, like the pictures of their own undigested lunches at the local high price'd cafes, images of Palestinian children's bodies swimming in clodded bogs.
Ask them for peace and they'll simply stare at you, to wordlessly repeat to you the need for justice, kindness, fairness, tolerance, civility, ethic, and above all acceptance of others.
Perhaps the ruling classes of their Russian opponents will be kinder than their countrymen when Britain conducts itself abroad.
>>2950798>i like the tradeMe too, and the trade of goods evidently begins in the trade of words.
>we are not asocial idiots. we socialise in new waysThis just sounds like capitalist realism.
We socialise in new ways, but newness is not always good.
>as big picture things like towns or countries become more homogenous, there's an explosion in difference elsewhere.Where diversity is impressed upon us as a brand, we lose it.
When a million voices cry out "I am an individual!" none of them are.
Only the person who denies their individuality becomes an individual.
Conservatives were right about this in 2016, if "diversity" just means black and brown people having the same opinions as white people, this is not diversity. Diversity must be difficult and adventurous. This is lost on the sentimental and egalitarian left who want to dress up difference as sameness. This is the poison of a faux individualism.
>put forward a critique of individualism if you have one. My critique is that one cannot be an "individual". It is an abstraction, like Freud's phallus. The moment I say "I'm a man", I reveal a doubt in my masculinity. To be an individual is to resist "self-expression". Let the world magnetise to you rather than be attracted to the world.
>>2950810To add: the economic slump into which this nation now subsides drives the political faults which grind and shear the social continental plates of Ukraine and Iran.
The ruling class of Britain dance happily to the tune of profit, not realising that after its own fashion the export of its arms for the security of international business dissolve into the liquid heat above which their schemes slide, into which there threatens to erupt general war.
The Krakatoa of cluster munitions, electrical shortages, and endless aid packages, against which our precious little slave masters find no opposition to but directly acknowledge privately for threat of their own public awareness, wells into that of the possibility of all out conflict.
Thus in the alleyways behind Odeon the chemically indolent lie prostrate, asphyxiated I'm conditions of wealth mismanagement that no party can correct as the very heading of their ship is caught in a tempest that will crack the very timber of its prow.
Of course none of this means anything: why should the mother of two whose husband works as the local Tesco manager care an inch for anything more than the desire to see her two children rise in society and attend the likes of Oxford or Cambridge.
None of these idiots lose sleep to the idea that the very asphalt on which they stride to their offices of employment, sheds of reinforced glass and steel, all are constructed in the industrial warehouse capital erects; that the bitumen from the middle east may cease its journey if in escalation Britain and the US seek containment with Iran.
Or that food stuffs which the homeless pass, catching in the reflection of their eye as they sit in front of the local supermarket begging, are grown from grain making its way from the seed fields in Ukraine.
All gorge themselves on this idea that the future exists in the present, and that what tomorrow delayed is today's rest.
Thus in the annuls of ambition even the most red blooded of our political caste bleed not a prick as their constituent's snort, inject, or smoke the very crack which finances the underworld on which turn Britain's recruiting offices.
The stupidity of living in a society which must blanket their excuses of destitution which confront them as the guttering of necessity leaves all presently aware that the very fabric of their social being is torn, its manufacture dyed in the colour of its rulers intent: red.
>>2950829>>2950810For purpose of this little screed (oh he doesn't shut up):
The Greens offer only a salve to the cancer which now shreds the sinew of Britain's workers, its bus drivers, its conductors, its sorters, and seek electoral success on that wave of popularity into which it has first drifted.
The party is out of contact with its social political reality, and is the highest form of that contradiction in which government ceases by the labour of its majority to function, unable to effect its mandate as the law of its rule disintegrates and in the disconnect between Parliamentary purpose there exists the overlap of two planes within Britain: rich and poor.
Wealth taxes are offered upon the alter of a democratic chamber in order to appease its members that the butchery of poverty is justified as heads occasionally roll from the temples of buildings in the form of suicides, crime, and the disrepair of its youth's education
Institutionally this crisis has no solution. The electorate contend that driven to the polls they may end the genocide in Gaza, the struggling of rents, the destruction of the countryside and its wildlife, but this is the highest illusion par excellence
The malaise of this period into which Britain will be entering will be typified by the repression in the consciousness of the violence of class rule, given its unresolved expression in parties which cannot treat the symptom for the cause: capitalism.
Socialists flee to the Greens as, at long last, individuals exist with common sympathies. And as they return home to their flats, on one fine rememberance Sunday with aim to attending work tomorrow to speak of the sorrows of Gaza to Liv and Paul at their £30k salaried position, they bleed dry online such exquisite thoughts as these.
That racists are evil, it is okay to sit and watch television to numb the existential pain of unknown cause, and that perhaps, Britain may be saved by factions such the Greens.
Oh, but the poor children of Gaza!
"Naught's had, all's spent,
When our desire is got without content
'Tis safer to be that which we destroy
Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy"
>>2950988That kid has probably finished uni now.
Is it me or has everyone got weirdly OTT on Remembrance Day this year?
>>2951078It's not just you, i gave 50p to the remembrance beggar in the Morrisons foyer and didn't even take a paper poppy.
>>2951085Just seen the BID for my hometown post a WE WILL REMEMBER THEM post like I have never seen them do that before.
Unique IPs: 212