Dengism is retarded
>created a national bourgesisie that constantly has to be purged because they obviously oppose the state
>created an economic bubble that caused the GDP and living standards to collapse by 1993
>the industrial base for it was only even possible because of maoist central planning years earlier
>is not giga
>is retarded
146 posts and 17 image replies omitted.>>2938080> dengoids here told me all that trademaxxing was justified because it was the most powerful nation-state on earth,when did anyone say this, specifically the highlighted part, not the first part
>>2938089>How are people always so arrogantly wrong about the positions of others? Especially when it comes to this topic. trolls just make up what you think as you go along so you have to constantly waste your effort restating your basic ideas and never go any deeper
>>2938086so all they can do is be partners and make line go up together forever, good to know
>>2938094unless the imperial core proletariat has a revolution, and stops waiting on the PRC to do it for them. revolution is the one job you can't outsource to china. sorry!
>>2938094>Why won't china do all the hard work for meeee???It's not their problem buddy, they already have enough on their plate dealing with their own shit. It's up to you
communist society is when you can do nothing but coexist and sell your labor force to capitalists, disagree? CIA anarchist
>>2938124is any of that supposed to be progressive? all of those things cemented capitalist rule over society with extra layers of state management added onto it in an effort to countervail the falling rate of profit
>>2938126Yeah bro when he says ww2 happened or marx having died he's talking about progressive events
jesus christ man
>>2938126>cemented capitalist rule over societyit reinforced an increasingly brittle core with a thin layer of cope. you are blackpilling about this
>>2938129You can literally just move cores around, it moved from the Dutch, to the British, to the Americans, and China will be the new core
>>2938124How are you supposed to have a proletarian revolution when all the factories are in China and everyone is a precarious service worker?
>>2938124claim number 1: china is socialist society
claim number 2: china cant do anything but coexist with capitalists and sell their labor power to them
conclusion: socialist society is when you peacefully coexist with capitalists and sell your labor power to them
It really comes down to whether or not you believe Capital can be bent to human political whims, my bet is on the side that it can’t, if capital exists in your polity, you’ve already lost, given in to its logic
>>2938134There is a limit on that process as already established. The rate of profit. There will come a point where capitalism runs out of places to outsource capital to, and it can no longer conceal its tendency to destroy abundance in the name of keeping up prices.
>>2938137you are not seriously making those claims and neither am i. you are just saying that is what i'm saying. that is lazy. do better.
>>2938138>let me drop a new goalpost instead of replyingeffortless cretin
>>2938142That’s not a goalpost shift as that’s been the goalpost the whole time
>>2938139The rate of profit is never zero and you can always destroy capital, it’s a tendency to fall, it isn’t absolute the way gravity or entropy are
>>2938141so you disagree china is a socialist society or that they cant do anything but peaceful coexistence and trade with capitalists powers?
>>2938147>>2938143>>2938144i am fully convinced you are trolling
>>2938151im the anon above you, im not trolling, idk about the other guy
>>2938151I might be annoying and abrasive but I’m not trolling, I don’t see how MLs and social democrats are actually different when they both fundamentally agree that capital can be subordinated and made to serve the interests of the state or the proletariat while still operating
>>2938154>im the anon above you, im not trolling, idk about the other guyok
>>2938147>so you disagree china is a socialist society or that they cant do anything but peaceful coexistence and trade with capitalists powers?i think china is state capitalist but i dont think the kind of capitalism/imperialism the US and china are doing are equal. i think there are important material differences that create a hierarchy of priority. furthermore I think proletarians of all countries should unite, but before they can unite, they must defeat their "own" governments. complaining about a government far away being too capitalist while not really talking about your own is basically premature socialist patriotism which is a problem. You can only be patriotic after DOTP is established and you have a government capable of spreading revolution that isn't bourgeois.
>>2938159You don’t get that China and the US would need to be overthrown simultaneously with cross border worker organizations, there is no US consumer market that endlessly distracts and coopts all it’s opposition without the Chinese manufacturing that goes from them, to Walmart, to your house, then the pacific garbage patch. They’re two halves of the same whole.
>>2938160ok well i hope that happens. until then i look at what the prevailing conditions are and operate within them because i am just one person and so are you
>>2938162You can stop doing that any time you want to, it’s just difficult and uncomfortable
>>2937402Fun fact: one of the stars on the Chinese flag represents the national bourgeoisie that helped the PRC come into being and fight off the Japanese.
That said, Dengism is not retarded. Is it flawed? Yes. Are there plenty of people sidelined by development of productive forces? Yes. Do I find their lack of support to the Palestinian resistance disturbing? Yes. Are there opportunists and capitalist roaders? Also yes. Should we unapologetically confront mistakes of the PRC when they let such trends dictate their orientation towards the oppressed of the world? Also yes.
The fact remains that the PRC has more soft power than the Soviet Union could ever dream of via Belt and Road Initiative and the scale up now is due to Deng's reforms. Attributing the success of modern PRC industrialization to Mao might as well have you attribute the success of Communist development to feudal development 1500 years ago. Mao may have been a legendary political and military leader, but he was not an industrialist or a scientist.
Should the fear of Mao's ghost be instilled into party members who are enjoying themselves too much at the expense of working class people? Sure. But you're not going to have me toss the baby out with the bathwater all of their successes they have now to the benefit of imperialist forces who are seeking regime change and another century of humiliation.
>>2938165how does one operate outside of prevailing conditions?
>>2938167Through revolutionary suicide
>>2938159>i think china is state capitalist but i dont think the kind of capitalism/imperialism the US and china are doing are equalthe reason why chinese capitalists can do a different, less barbaric type or capitalism is because their number 1 trading partner does the other kind for them
>complaining about a government far away being too capitalist capitalists goverments all over the world are all collaborators in the same barbarism, their physical location is irrelevant, im from a thirdie shithole and chinese ships come here from the literal other side of the world to pillage resouerces from the sea so they can keep making line go up, but I'm the bad guy just because I dont want to call that kind of behaviour "socialism"?
If I was a leftypol mod, I would have moved this thread to
>>>/lgbt/ already.
>>2938193>stupid homosexual commies, amirite fellow trademaxxers?why are MLs like this?
btw sinbad is not only amerikkkan i.e. spiritually bourgeois (and israeli) but also actually petite bourgeois, it kind of explains why the confirmed D$A adjacent socdem mods coddle him so much
>>2938170> im from a thirdie shithole and chinese ships come here from the literal other side of the world to pillage resouerces from the sea so they can keep making line go upwhich one is that. why do all the actual thirdworlders on this web site speak english and use trumptard phrases like "thirdie shithole" to describe themselves? all in the name of slandering america's enemies as equally capitalist and imperialist as america! weird!
>>2938208Because I said
>>>/420/ nobody would take me seriously. Arguably, it is the better option of the two.
>>2938227I can neither confirm nor deny this statement.
If you cut a dengist open, you will see that their insides are already rotten.
>>2938279>which one is that.its in latam, you dont need more information, officer
> "thirdie shithole" to describe themselves? I used it to describe my country, not myself, its what happens when you are not nationalist-brained, sorry I guess
>all in the name of slandering america's enemiesyou mean one their biggest trading partners, american capitalists antagonize other capitalists sometimes, its what how the entire operation works, doesnt make them less or more capitalist
also saying a capitalist country is capitalist is not slander
if anyone does any slandering, its people who call nationalism and social-democracy communism, you are making socialism sound like shit, its hilarious when leftists think the CIA is the entire reason social-democrats lose elections here in latam, I bet its mostly american zohran dickriders who say that here
The USSR also said trve socialism was a generation away. Fusion and socialism are always 30 years away.
>>2938159>china is state capitalistToo many small businesses for that.
>>2937932At times I report people (mostly bordifags and leftcoms who are honestly more bad faith than nazi-flag /pol/fags) and mods just let them be. They need to fuck a thread up in a way so severe it'd be embarrasing for the moderation to leave it be, but they'll otherwise always turn a blind eye. I'm more likely to be banned for this post.
I really don't get it personally, it's one of the things that make me think the whole website has been co-opted and the whole bordigamania in leftist spaces is a psyop because the entire thing boils down to anti AES and anti-imperialist states propaganda but in leftist terminology.
>>2938442rent free roflmao
>>2938444The sadistic glee is so consistent.
>>2938448yes we leftcoms distinguish ourselves from muh heckin wholesome Marxist-Leninists and Multipolaristas because of our cold and impersonal cruelty
>bump locked
kwab, the MLib wokemob cant handle banter
>>2938512it's nothing but banter, posts of significant effort ITT got ignored or just shit on with low effort bait.
>>2938769thinking you can go back to it is. read the rest of the post … oh wait, reading is technology. never mind. practice what you preach and hit yourself on the head until you become illiterate.
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