No.495018[Last 50 Posts]
Last one got full
of people baiting each otherOriginal post:
Is there a proxy conflict coming?
US will act ‘decisively’ if Russia deploys military to Cuba or Venezuela – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546021-moscow-presence-cuba-venezuela/Are NATO and Russia on the brink of war over the Ukraine crisis? (Ex-UK ambassador to Russia)
https://www.rt.com/podcast/546013-russia-nato-ukraine-crisis/US claims Russia preparing ‘false flag’ in Ukraine
https://www.rt.com/russia/546091-us-false-flag-ukraine/Russia ‘fabricating a pretext for invasion’ of Ukraine – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546049-kremlin-fabricating-reason-ukraine-invasion/Is Russia really preparing an offensive against Ukraine?
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/546082-russian-military-exercise-ukrainian-border/CIA-trained special ops could fight Russians in case of Ukrainian invasion – report
https://www.rt.com/russia/546041-cia-special-troops-ukraine-invasion/Ukraine hit by huge cyber attack
https://www.rt.com/russia/546026-ukrainian-government-agencies-massive-cyberattack/Russia-NATO relations at critical level, Moscow warns
https://www.rt.com/russia/545911-moscow-nato-relations-hazards/US to train ‘Ukrainian insurgents’ in EU – media
https://www.rt.com/russia/546143-us-train-ukraine-insurgents-reports/US seeking ways to profit should Russia-Ukraine conflict break out – reports
https://www.rt.com/business/546138-us-lng-russia-europe-sanctions/Also: requesting that tweet where Lukashenko says that this year they reunite Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, etc.
To check for news:
https://liveuamap.com/esTo check for (military) planes:
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/I'm gonna post my opinion about the russian matter in here as well, it's my post, you can't do nothing about it:Russia has tried to join NATO, twice.
No real reason for NATO to actually not accept, you would literally have world domination, aside from China.
This is because of a very simple reason, NATO wants to balkanize Russia. The very existence of Russia is a menace to NATO, and I don't mean this because they're "scared" of russian people, but how much territory they occupy.
Russia is the major country that will get a benefit from climate change, it's a country with a lot of natural resources because it literally owns about 1/8 of the planet or so.
It's the literal counterpart of the US, and the US wants it destroyes so it can truly be the world dominator without having no one to actually stand to them. Also Russia has lotsa nukes.
Not saying tho that Russia is an anti-imperialist nation, it is a capitalist nation and capitalism itself enables imperialism, it's a feature, not a dlc. But the thing is that NATO is searching for Russia is to be completely destroyed and balkanized in 5 states or more.
Also the Rimland theory is more important (at least that'd what NATO officials believe) than what you think.
So in thic conflict I support Russia for these reasons.
>Russia is actively defending itself against an outside invader that wants to mutilate it out of paranoia.>Ukraine isn't worth a damn supporting, they have incorporated in their army neo-nazi paramilitaries.>Ukraine is also a shithole that would be better under russian control… Probably (not that hard of a test tbh, being better than a comprador regime for NATO isn't that hard).>More power to Russia means less power to the US, which will make it more aggressive. Supporting Russia is literally accelerationism to ww3, but accelerationism nonetheless, and no, I don't want ww3, I don't like to happen, but one thing is to not like war and the other is to delude oneself into believing that it will not happen, it will happen because it's the natural course of capitalism. This is more asking for a swift death than a prolonged, painful suffering under late stage capitalism.>Seriously, fuck the Ukrainian goverment.>In fact, fuck ALL nato states, including mine.Despite this, I recognize that:
>Russia is a capitalist country. Thus means that it is imperialist because imperialism is the capitalist drive for profit natural course of action, read imperialism, the last stage of capitalism. Every capitalist country will become either imperialist, or imperialized, and Russia clearly isn't being imperialized as, say, Togo is.>Russia is ruled by a capitalist class, the same class that killed the Soviet Union and thus killed AES.>The russian state is actively smearing the soviet union, by example making the gulag archipelago a required reading in schools, meanwhile putting into a shrine a fake version of Stalin, deluding themselves into thinking he was a fascistic strong dictator instead of the antithesis of fascism which is why russian rightwingers love to say that they liked Stalin but hate Lenin, despite the former being literally a disciple and rightful succesor to Lenin's theories and politics.Also btw this also applies to China.
No.495020
>>708894
Ukrainians won't sign an agreement if they think the US or NATO will come to rescue them. That is, unless the Russians decide that some other entity is now the actual Ukrainian government, which is highly suspected to be the plan at hand.
No.495021
>>495019Those guys are fucking retards, but thankfully they aren't being put front and center. Ukraine government should have shuffled them off somewhere else, but I guess the love of Nazis is strong in Ukraine even after all they did.
No.495024
Ukraine will win
No.495025
>>495022That is officially the most retarded take I've ever seen since Sarah Palin said she had foreign policy experience because she could see Russia from her house.
No.495026
>>495022>Attacking through the literal frozen hell of Russia.<Such a sound idea!Ok guys I want to know your opinion:
https://www.strawpoll.me/45939722 No.495027
>>495024The only way to win is not to play. Let's hope for peace.
No.495029
>>495028Keep posting the infograms, agent- I mean comrade!
No.495031
>>495029Is Russian fascism based anti-imperialist fascism?
No.495032
>>495026You realize that US soldiers are already issued these items, right? You've never seen the ECWCS shit? It's pretty nice.
No.495033
>>708894
From Russia's perspective making a deal with Ukraine is functionally the same as making a deal with the us, which is a waste of time because the us doesn't uphold the deals it makes. Russia wants Nato to back off, and the only way that's gonna happen is with military force.
No.495034
>>495031Far-right countries in EU are both supported by the US and Russia.
It's a good way to keep the EU from uniting into a singular block that could enter the global stage competing against both.
Also you're retarded.
No.495035
>>495031>Fascism>Based>Anti-imperislistYou can only pick one
No.495036
>>495028You keep posting this and not only does it glow, but it’s incredibly poor propaganda
No.495037
>>495022lmao I wish this would happen. Imagine the Americans faces when they get bogged down in the middle of nowhere Siberia when they have to abandon billions of dollars in military hardware because it fucking freezes solid or sinks into the mud.
No.495038
>>495034Is this cope? Why would USA want to make its allies weak?
No.495040
>>495038>Why would USA want to make its allies weak?Many reasons, anon. Allies aren't allies forever, and enemies aren't enemies forever. What the US wants is inter-dependence, and if you make your ally too strong, they might decide they don't need your end of the relationship. That's not that strange and is common in geopolitics.
No.495043
>>495038So the US can keep telling them what to do instead of having to negotiate.
No.495044
>>495040Condemning Russian fascism doesn't mean I support American. This is false dichotomy that you have choose between them. Communist should condemn Putin and putinoids for their support of fascist movements.
No.495045
>>495044I did not mean to imply that you did. I'm merely explaining American actions. I think Putin should be condemned, and I do condemn Putin, but it makes little difference what I think. We are not global players, nor are we high-level operatives in any national government.
No.495046
>>495038Because the EU’s a western European neoliberal project and a weaker EU means that the individual countries have to buddy up more with the US. NATO, on the other hand is a military agreement that the US and Europe will keep up in order to make a shield wall to keep out those scary foreigners
No.495047
>>495044>Russian Fascism What do you think fascism is?
No.495048
>>495037This winter meme has to die. American equipment is perfectly capable of operating in the cold, and the US will spare no expense to ensure the survivability of its troops. Also, the mud season comes after the spring thaw, and will be a bigger problem for any potential invader.
No.495049
>>495047Typical /pol/ talking point to bitch about specific fascist definitions. Its authoritarian nationalistic capitalism and usually xenophobic.
No.495050
>>495028you kinda forget all the left wing parties that have good relations with russia.
Die Linke comes to mind.
No.495052
>>495051No, Keitel made excuses regarding the weather and blamed his tactical and strategic failures on it. The winter meme is pure cope. Soviet forces just fought better, and they are not any more impervious to cold than anyone else. Also, the German soldiers didn't have winter equipment, but that is the fault of their logistics and not an inherent part of arctic combat.
No.495053
>>495050If you watch RT you'll see they have no problem promoting white nationalist messaging for them regularly then they'll do the same for far left by bringing on literal Marxist.
This isnt surprising they show support to far left parties as well as far right
No.495054
>>495048I dunno homie us be making boats that don't float and planes that don't fly plus a bunch of other shit that don't work so I wouldn't put much faith in its cold weather shit
No.495056
>>495049>Fascism is when capitalism is racist and dictatorial as opposed to that being regular capitalism Nice hissy fit, liberal. I’d tell you that Russia takes a shit ton of immigrants from Central Asia and the Caucasus, but you’d say they’re doing it for “pragmatism”, as if Western Europe and co takes in immigrants because they like them.
No.495058
>>495052>No, Keitel made excuses regarding the weather and blamed his tactical and strategic failures on it. The winter meme is pure cope. Soviet forces just fought better, and they are not any more impervious to cold than anyone else. Also, the German soldiers didn't have winter equipment, but that is the fault of their logistics and not an inherent part of arctic combat.Didn't mean to imply that the Soviet Union won because of winter, but that thinking that the US army will equip it's soldiers for winter is… logical but let's also remember that the US army is so overfunded because they buy jeeps at the military-industrial complex for 9999999999999999999999$ because of in other countries would be called corruption.
Don't let yourself be lied to just because the US army budget it's so big, it isn't that much better than other countries militaries.
No.495059
>>495054Their cold weather shit has been tested in Afghanistan up to -25C. As for boats and planes. They're fine. Honestly, it's jut a bunch of armchair generals thinking they know more than they do. Hopefully nothing happens, though, since it's literally just kids on both sides that are going to do the fighting because of the failures of old men.
No.495060
>>495049>authoritarian nationalistic capitalism with xenophobic characteristicsthis is a child-level understanding of fascism. By this logic, most of the worlds governments are fascist. most of human history has been fascist. Its such a broad definition that the word loses all relevancy.
No.495061
>>495060>most of human history >capitalism The first part was right, shoulda quit while you were ahead
No.495062
>>495053Yeah, and that's the point, I don't think they care what RT says, as long as it makes western proles wary of their governments. This is Realpolitik 101 guys.
No.495063
>>495058>remember that the US army is so overfunded because they buy jeeps at the military-industrial complex for 9999999999999999999999$ because of in other countries would be called corruption.No, that would be stupid. The US buys the actual clothing systems. They're standard-issue items. They just pay $500 for a single jacket. They're corrupt, not stupid. You should get a set, though, since it is nice, and I do mean nice. I even have the bunny boots.
No.495064
>>495061touche, lets shorten "most of human history" to " the last 300 years"
No.495066
>>495059>They're finelmao cope
No.495067
>>495066Again, nobody knows how good or bad they are because the full specs are neve released. You'll have to wait for it to actually be in combat for that to be shown. The only people consistently claiming modern equipment sucks are people who are not directly involved in its development or its use.
No.495068
>>495062May it also be said that le far left and far right aren’t russian creations in western europe but wholly organic entities that Russian State Entities at best provide a platform for.
No.495069
>4 threads in
<Still nothing happened
No.495070
>>495059>Their cold weather shit has been tested in Afghanistan up to -25C.At what scale tho.
I mean, if it was like, a 100 soldiers at a time because of moountains, then that doesn't mean much.
We're talking about an outright invasion of Russia through Alaska in which, probably, at least 100.000 soldiers would participate in (or maybe 50.000 or so, but it is a lot)
An invasion of Siberia means a lot of territory to track and defend as well, which means having a lot of soldiers on it. Of course you can deliver your stuff to a 100 guys or 1000 to the other side of the world, but in here we're talking to an actual invasion to the biggest country of the world which is in a constant state of freezing.
Aside that the logistics in siberia are pretty much nonexistant (which would mean that the US would need to build it so not only their soldiers don't die freezing to death, but of starvation) and sending shit on planes isn't affordable.
Do you think the US would be capable of actually invading Siberia through the Bering Strait?
No.495072
>>495062Which creates a funny dilemma. Look at this post, every single link is to RT. Large portion of far left ends up with mindset current Russia will help lead towards their goal, albeit not exactly what want, help them there.
Then you go on /Pol/ or on patriots.win and you got same case all pushing for Russia and seeing Putin as their guy
Who is right? Or is it everyone being propagandized by Russian media and Putin doesn't have your best interest in heart?
It's not the retarded liberal mindset that Russia is behind every corner and crevice but the gunho attitude towards Russia should be chilled out a bit possibly.
No.495073
>>495070>I mean, if it was like, a 100 soldiers at a time because of moountains, then that doesn't mean much.It was literally standard equipment to everyone going to Afghanistan. You get issued brand-new stuff when going overseas. The guys that hang out in Alaska, for example, already have that as soon as they get to their units, and you get the lower levels of the system everywhere else. Shit's good to go.
>We're talking about an outright invasion of Russia through Alaska in which, probably, at least 100.000 soldiers would participate in (or maybe 50.000 or so, but it is a lot)Bro, that's not going to happen. First of all, there's fucking nothing there worth taking, and second of all, there is no way to invade Russia as long as they have nukes, which they have plenty of, more than the US.
>Do you think the US would be capable of actually invading Siberia through the Bering Strait?No, but that's like saying if I would be capable of fucking a bag of razors. Why would anyone attempt that?
No.495075
>>495072The funny part about the muh demoralization meme that they keep posting from that "ex-KGB" guy, is that this is exactly what Russia does to the right all the time, and each time they buy the propaganda and nothing dissuades them of their retarded ideas that they tricked themselves into believing.
No.495076
>>495072Copypasting from what I wrote in the last thread:
1) Russia in Europe provides the now current sort of check on Nato’s rapacious neoliberalism
2) Nato and its incursions towards Russia are one of the one things that manufacture consent for the ruling bourgeois clique. Once There’s no big bad West threatening to swallow up Russia, people are going to be far less willing to shut up and keep their head down
3) Nato and the westoids have always channelled domestic discontent with the real problems of post-capitalist eastern europe towards neoliberal sympathetic movements like Maidan or Tikhanovskaya’s Zmagars. A rollback of NATO power better ensures that an organic communist opposition can grow instead of being glow-op’d
4) Reducing the scope and influence of Nato in Eastern Europe reduces its hegemonic influence over Europe as a whole, which may allow for similar anti-neoliberal movements of a communist persuasion to appear
No.495077
>>495073>Why would anyone try to attempt thatLook at this guy
>>495022 No.495078
>>495071>sanctionsXaxaxaxaxa
No.495082
>>495081>We have no intention to put US forces in Ukraine>Continue to send guys to Europe>Continue to mass them on the bordersAlmost like believing Russia doesn't intend to invade Ukraine. It's all contingent on a secondary event, like say an attempted coup, or some kind of attack on the border. Think, anon, think.
No.495083
>>495081Except there are already us special forces there and blackwater mercenaries
No.495084
>>495082Russia has a shit load of soldiers piled up in Russia borders
United States will pile up a bunch in Baltic states that they are invited to do so
Then from there we see what happens with popcorn
No.495085
>>708751
Russia is responding to NATO's eternal provocations. The US is begging Russia to invade so they can impose sanctions. Looks like SWIFT is off the table though, US are probably aware of the risks for them introduced by forcing half the world off of the dollar
No.495086
Does Russia even have enough troops to invade Ukraine? There’s like 160k troops on the Ukrainian border which isn’t nearly enough for a full scale invasion of a country, especially one that is being equipped by the west with advanced military tech. To me this seems like it’s just Russia trying to act tough to get some demands out of Ukraine and they have no intention of actually invading.
No.495087
>>495083I can tell you right now that there is no military presence inside Ukraine at this time. However, certain civilian agencies are definitely operating in Ukraine.
No.495089
>>495085SWIFT is a spent penny anyway as Russia and China have been threatened with that before and are developing their own alternative already.
No.495090
>>495081If 'nothingburger' just means 'no combined-operations multi-front WW3 between two vast militaries" then yes, everyone already knew that
No.495091
So Russia invades and the US doesn't support with troops. What happens next? NATO breakup? Actually Existing Nazi Ukraine cause of coup?
No.495093
>>495089Yeah, I'm saying that the US probably realizes that taking Swift from powerful countries just accelerates the economic decoupling that's already inevitable
>>495088This is more or less the multipolar dream imho
No.495094
>>495092romania more like greater Hungary
No.495095
>>495091>So Russia invades and the US doesn't support with troops.I have a hard time believing that this would be the case, but potentially an invasion of Taiwan, along with a series of smaller wars as some local powers are emboldened by US inaction. This would also cause a large collapse of the global economy, fueling more war. If the US doesn't do something, we will see WW3. Believe it or not, a conventional conflict between the US and Russia is not as bad as it gets.
No.495096
>>495087https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2022-01-19/special-forces-press-on-in-ukraine-amid-threat-of-russian-invasion-4343248.html
>STUTTGART, Germany — U.S. special operators are continuing with a mission to build up an elite fighting force in Ukraine, military officials said, even as Russia threatens invasion with its thousands of troops, tanks and artillery massed along their borders.
>“The bottom line is that our training mission in Ukraine is ongoing,” Lt. Col. Juan Martinez, spokesman for U.S. Special Operations Command Europe, said Tuesday.
>Martinez said there are a “ton of outside factors at work,” but that the command hasn’t stepped back from Ukraine.
>“We continue to view our mission in Ukraine as part of an ongoing effort in enhancing Special Operations Forces capabilities as a keystone for regional stability,” he said.
>The Stuttgart-based SOCEUR has quietly operated out of a training center outside of Kyiv for the past several years. The mission’s focus is assisting Ukrainian forces to defend more effectively against Russian aggression.
>The presence of U.S. special operators is part of a small American military contingent that remains in Ukraine. There are also more than 100 Florida National Guard troops in Ukraine in an advisory role, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said Tuesday. No.495097
>>495096I stand corrected. I didn't know they had kept that open.
No.495100
>>495095>Believe it or not, a conventional conflict between the US and Russia is not as bad as it gets.It would be a hard time for Europe that is for sure. It would dwarf the Yugoslav war. Would rightwing parties welcome the refugees since they are not brown?
No.495101
>>495100>Would rightwing parties welcome the refugees since they are not brown?Only if it ensured more power for themselves. Remember even Franco welcomed Moroccans as long as they fought for him.
No.495103
>>495102damn, what the fuck is up with feds and their outright love of hate speech?
No.495105
>>495028American Britanny Stewart wearing a Ukrainian Nazi uniform with "Death or Ukraine
John McCain with a prominent Ukrainian Nazi
No.495106
>>495104This is /pol/ levels of cope. Also, I love that the Ukrainian Nationalists are writing here in Russian
No.495107
>>495102I'm not reading all that. I support the Russian people, not their government's imperialist interests and the war they are fomenting.
No.495108
>>495091>So Russia invades and the US doesn't support with troops. This is the American plan. Conventional war between America and Russia would quickly escalate into nuclear war so they avoid it at all cost. They use proxies and anything that is not American or Russian is free to kill for them.
>What happens next? NATO breakup?NATO will likely unify under threat and start to mobilize forces in its Eastern front to balance Russian threat. Russia will invade Ukraine and kill thousands of evil Ukrainian nazi civilians. After this massacre they can do as they please with the country.
>Actually Existing Nazi Ukraine cause of coup?What?
No.495109
>>495072>all pushing for Russia and seeing Putin as their guy He is reactionary and anti-communist but for the time being he is our guy. So is Lukashenko and anyone or any institution who provides a counterweight to NATO/U.S. full spectrum dominance. We must be in favour of a multipolar world order, because if the west, that is the Anglo Empire, manages to conquer and dissect Putin's Russia China would be next and much easier to conquer. As world hegemon with no rivals left the west could then fully concentrate on crushing even the slightest hint of communism or socialism anywhere on the globe before it can develop, because the Soviet Union, the Warszaw Pact and Maoist China are the eternal trauma of the west.
Now if capitalist/reactionary Russia would be the strongest of the great powers and as close to achieving world hegemony as NATO right now i'd support NATO to contain Putin, but that's not the case. The west is by far the most powerful capitalist power bloc and attacking Russia while Iran, China, DPRK, Cuba and Venezuela are pretty much the only further opposition that is left. It's not much.
No.495112
>>495018Alternate "history" scenarios inspired by map-painting simulators was a mistake.
No.495113
>>495108>NATO will likely unify under threatI don't know, the response of Germnay and France has been peacetalking and I think in private they even think of appeasement.
>What?I mean that a Russian invasion would provoke a hard rightward turn on Ukraine, but I don't know.
No.495115
>>495109Exactly. I despise Putin and his oligarchical regime they literally butchered Russia.
BUT i despise america/NATO waaaayy more lol plus they are the ones who started this whole mess by encircling Russia and denying their requests to join NATO lol
No.495117
>>495116I guess that means they're no longer paramilitary.
No.495120
>>495112To clarify, if Russia were to start a war with Ukraine and lose, the worst scenario that would happen is extreme sanctions/reparations from NATO countries and perhaps Ukraine re-annexing Crimea and some other minor border territory. Not this bullshit Ukrainian fascist fantasy of lebensraum-ing (genocidal annexation) of Eastern Russia and the complete occupation of Siberia by NATO; something reminiscent of border gore from the end of a HoI4 match that Redditors are obsessed with.
No.495121
I don't support Russia, I'm just against the US
No.495122
>>495118The DNR and LNR militias are at the bottom of the list when it comes to key players. They don't matter at all, and this isn't even downplaying them. They're literally just cannon fodder.
Russia has a modernized military, so they won't even need to bother equipping these guys with good kit. Ukraine, on the other hand, is forced to arm Azov and other rightoids because they're the most fanatically fierce fighters their country has.
No.495123
>>708728No the U.S military isn't better equipped or trained. The majority of the military budget is wasted from corruption. The military has also been having recruitment issues for almost a decade now.
>The U.S. currently has 1.3 million active-duty service members. Due to attrition and retirement, the military needs to find more than 150,000 new recruits every year to meet its overall “end strength” goal. In 2020, the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines all hit their annual recruitment goals – but those figures were distorted by a historically weak job market, as active-duty service members delayed plans to re-enter the civilian sector, reducing the need for new hires. Last year’s target of 61,200 new Army enlistees, for instance, was 20% lower than in 2018, when the Army failed to meet its goal.
>Recruiting isn’t easy. At least 70% of Americans between 17 and 24 are ineligible for military service due to obesity, mental-health issues, past drug use, criminal records or lack of a high school degree. Overall, only 13% of young adults express a positive propensity to serve, with women about half as likely as men to consider enlisting. The Defense Department estimates that just 2% out of 20.6 million 17- to 21-year-olds have the desired combination of strong academic credentials, adequate physical fitness and an interest in serving.https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-07-12/joining-the-military-doesn-t-appeal-to-enough-young-americansThey also have the same equipment issues the Germans had in WW2. Overcomplicated claptrap wunderweapons that are difficult to repair. Add on top of the fact they don't even have the right to repair them in many cases due to the corrupt contracts they have with defense contractors.
>U.S. troops in the field are running up against increasingly restrictive licensing agreements signed by the Pentagon that limit their ability to service their own equipment. This presents a readiness and equipment confidence issue, which could make American forces less effective in wartime.
>Needless to say, vendor control over warranty repairs is a completely unworkable scheme in wartime. It’s almost as though whatever Pentagon agency that signed the contracts had no idea the mission of the U.S. military is to fight wars. While Oshkosh might get something of this in the near term, if such a restrictive agreement places troops at risk in wartime—or worse—one of America’s oldest vehicle manufacturers is going to have a serious problem on its hands.https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a30859791/us-military-right-to-repair/I don't know the state of the Russian military but the U.S military isn't in the best shape. Between apathetic soldiers, a population thats incapable of serving in the first place and a byzantine logistics. It doesn't look good for the U.S
No.495124
>>495022>What if Burger millitary tried to do a pincer attack on Moscow through Siberia and supply our troops with billion kilometer long supplylines facing partisans, wildlife and Russian winter all the while having to expend countless men and equipment that could be used elsewhere on occupying Siberia. This would probably be unironically beneficial move to the Russians if Americans did this.
No.495125
>>495115NATO are also the ones who couped the USSR. If it wasn't Putin, Yeltsin would have put someone else like him in power.
No.495126
>>495122The use paramilitary forces as auxiliaries is part of modern Russian military doctrine according to our military. Even cannon fodder has uses.
No.495127
>>495118Anon, it doesn't matter what we support. We have literally no effect on what happens in Ukraine at this point in time.
No.495128
>>495127Propaganda and information warfare is more important than you understand. Especially now in the age of internet.
No.495130
>>495123the US military also has a huge brain drain problem, I've got family who did outside engineering and contracting and the general consensus was that leadership is people who are too incompetent to find political or private sector careers after a few years of "service". So you end up with shit like blowing millions of dollars on "testing electric tanks" or sending your design teams to Israel for months at a time because I quote "Israel makes the best weapons known to man and we should be buying from them" levels of bullshit
that's outside of the general brain drain the US has been hit with in the last 20 years too.
No.495131
>>495115>I despise Putin and his oligarchical regime they literally butchered Russia.Creation of Russian oligarchy was enabled by Gorbachev and the project was finally executed by Yeltsin and his CIA handlers. Putin was a reaction to the humiliation of the 90s. Yes Putin rules with the oligarchs, but he didn't make the state of things happen in Russia, he somewhat reversed the privatizations and stopped the economic tailspin and that's why he still has actual support among Russians.
No.495132
>>495119From the wikipedia page of Thierry de Montbrial, the founder of the IFRI
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_de_Montbrial> de Montbrial is a member of the Advisory Committee of the Peterson Institute for International Economics (Washington),[4] the Carnegie Moscow Center, the Advisory Council of the Stanford Institute for International Studies and the Editorial Board of Russia in Global Affairs (Moscow).[4] He is also a member of the Fondation Ecologie d'Avenir since 2011.[17] No.495133
>>495123>No the U.S military isn't better equipped or trained.Even with the problems you mentioned, yes, it is, and the logistics issue isn't there for individual equipment, which is issued in massive numbers. Yes, recruitment has gone down, but that's due to the fact that the wars have wound down and plenty of guys are retiring. We have plenty of deployable units and units in reserve, even if we are not at wartime strength levels.
No.495134
>>495128Propaganda does matter, but that game ended a while ago for this particular issue. The war is either happening or it's not, and nothing you post online is going to change that.
No.495135
>>495131AHAHAHAHAH Absolute state of putinoid apologists!
No.495137
>>495072/pol/ only sees Russia as /their guy/ because they're homophobic or whatever. As usual for them, zero material analysis.
No.495138
https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/01/bidens-ukraine-problem/
>President Biden rounded out his first year in office inadvertently encouraging a Russian invasion of Ukraine.
>His now-infamous comment that the Western response to an invasion would depend on whether “it’s a minor incursion” was remarkably, disturbingly candid, demonstrating that Washington and the West could well tolerate a limited Russian attack. Biden also said another unstated assumption out loud: that there’s no transatlantic unity on how to respond to the Russian military buildup. Effectively, he telegraphed to the Kremlin that the U.S. response to an invasion will only be as strong as what its most reticent ally will permit.lmao
No.495140
>>495138based biden being the only anti-war president since the 60s
No.495141
>>495140also wasn't Trump the one who was piling a bunch of sanctions on Russia? I never got the Trump or Russia love for each other when it seems like Biden is well less anti-russia (or war in general) really.
No.495142
>>495135you dropped your /s
No.495144
>>495142reddit is over there
No.495145
>>495144in the 'putin is a fascist' crowd? i'll pass
No.495147
>>495141Trump was planning on ditching NATO though
No.495148
Embedding error.
>>495133What do you even mean for individual equipment? Like the basics of uniforms and a rifles? Yeah sure the U.S can outfit some squads. But if they are using outdated equipment that can't be repaired and they can't expect any reinforcements. Those already apathetic soldiers won't have the moral to continue to fight.
No.495149
>>495147He *said* he'd ditch NATO, like he said a lot of things.
No.495151
>>495148>What do you even mean for individual equipment? Like the basics of uniforms and a rifles? Yeah sure the U.S can outfit some squads. But if they are using outdated equipment that can't be repaired and they can't expect any reinforcements.All of the equipment you get issued for deployment is brand new shit. The M4A1 is also just been adopted by everyone, and a new rifle looms on the horizon. The night vision issued is better than anything the Russians have and now has integrated thermal optics. The tanks, trucks, planes, and other stuff are repaired in-house by soldiers, Marines, airmen, and sailors. What are you talking about? You're worried about two vehicles which have barely just been given the greenlight for full production. The Army is still using HMMWVs for now.
>Those already apathetic soldiers won't have the moral to continue to fight.Anon, you're looking at POG tiktoks, and this is your measure of morale in the US armed forces? Did you even consider the other side? You know, the Russians, who have a fucking male rape and prostitution problem? Are you memeing right now?
No.495152
>>495151Some people just want to paint the US as at the same time too strong (big evil empire crushing everyone) and too weak (paper tiger with incompetent armed forces), by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus. This kind of pure ideological talk is straight up from the fascist playbook btw.
No.495153
>>495138Comrade Biden
I have to admit that when Trump lost I was bitterly disappointed. I thought another 4 years of Trump and USA would be in smoking ruins
But this whole "declining power" thing has a momentum of its own
Having a mentally deficient and clearly a dementia patient has been almost as hilarious as Trump. He's continued to show just how corrupt USA is (what with the shocking scandal of Hunter Bidens corruption, his effective appointment of his picked Quislings in Ukraine etc)
What's more he's shown how the US states irreversible decline wasn't just tied to a one in a million Trumpian character with COVID defeating usa and Biden throwing in the towel after making such a display under Trump that "every death is on the hands of Trump"
No.495154
>>495151Exactly. The only people who truly argue that the US military is some moral destroyed mob barely holding itself together are fascists trying to justify an increased budget. the US military combined with NATO would wipe Russia any day of the fucking week!!
No.495155
>>495154Kind of great that you bring up the budget issue. Remember when they were trying to meme aliens into some kind of national security threat? That was another way to pump up support for more funding.
No.495156
>>495151The U.S military also has a massive issue with rape and hazing. Can you provide anything that shows they get new shit and that all this equipment is actually worth a damn? How many times has the U.S military adopted a new gizmo only for it to back fire? Digital camo, the first iterations of the M-16 and the debacles of the USS Zumwalt and F-35. Like I said in my first post I don't know the state of Russias Military but I do not they don't have the corruption problem the U.S has. It also doesn't have a divided population beaten down by 2 years of the pandemic and 40 years of junk food.
>>495152I've always thought the U.S has been a paper tiger since the late G.W years. When the military budget started running up to absurd levels and the military would showcase military hardware like Telsa does. The problem the U.S military has isn't money or even technology. Its the insane level of corruption makes it so for every dollar say china, russia or even the E.U spends on its military. The U.S has to spend 1 million to get the same results. That money isn't helping the military, if anything it's hurting it.
No.495157
>>495154>The only people who truly argue that the US military is some moral destroyed mob barely holding itself together are fascists trying to justify an increased budget. That and people who don't understand that empires like the US can take literal centuries to actually collapse.
No.495159
>>495156>Digital camoNothing wrong with digital camo, lots of forces (including China) still use it. The problem with the US Army's ACU was the colour pallette.
>the first iterations of the M-16 Which were worked out and made the AR one of the most popular weapons in the world. Even if the US has problems with new shit failing, overspending on shit, etc they still have mountains of perfectly capable equipment available.
No.495160
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/01/22/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/
>The toolbox is empty. Russia knows this. Biden knows this. Blinken knows this. CNN knows this. The only ones who aren’t aware of this are the American people, says Scott Ritter.
>The U.S. narrative about Russia and Ukraine was immutable; Russia was hell bent on invading, and there would be massive consequences if Russia acted out on its intent. This was no idle threat, Blinken said, but rather represented the unified position of the United States and its allies and partners.
>Or was it? In a telling admission, CNN’s White House correspondent, John Harwood, stated that the “minor incursions” statement by Biden was harmless, because (Harwood said) Putin already knew through sources that this was, in fact, the U.S. position. As for Europe and Ukraine, their collective confusion and outrage was merely an act, a posture they had to take for public consumption, since the optics of Biden’s statement “sounds bad.”
>In short, the lack of an agreed-upon strategy on how to deal with a Russian incursion/invasion of Ukraine was an open secret for everyone except the U.S. and European publics, who being fed a line of horse manure to assuage domestic political concerns over being seen as surrendering to Russian demands.
>While the Pentagon is reportedly working on a series of military options to reinforce the existing U.S. military presence in eastern Europe, the actual implementation of these options would neither be timely nor even possible. One option is to move forces already in Europe; the U.S. Army maintains one heavy armored brigade in Europe on a rotational basis and has a light armored vehicle brigade and an artillery brigade stationed in Germany. Along with some helicopter and logistics support, that’s it.
>Flooding these units into Poland would be for display purposes only—they represent an unsustainable combat force that would be destroyed within hours, if not days, in any large-scale ground combat against a Russian threat.
>The U.S. can deploy a second heavy armored brigade to Poland which would fall in on prepositioned equipment already warehoused on Polish soil. This brigade would suffer a similar fate if matched up against the Russian army. The U.S. can also deploy an airborne brigade. They, too, would die.
>There are no other options available to deploy additional U.S. heavy forces to Europe on a scale and in a timeframe that would be meaningful. The problem isn’t just the deployment of forces from their bases in the U.S. (something that would takes months to prepare for), but the sustainability of these forces once they arrived on the ground in Europe. Food, ammunition, water, fuel—the logistics of war is complicated, and not resolved overnight.
>In short, there is no viable military option, and Biden knows this No.495161
>>495156>I do not they don't have the corruption problem the U.S hasHow do you know that? They also have problems with rape and bullying of new recruits (conscripts) to the military as well
No.495162
>>495157Historically empires took a long time to collapse because trade and production remained relatively static. If China hadn't stepped in in 2008 the US empire would have collapsed over night.
No.495163
>>495156>The U.S military also has a massive issue with rape and hazing.The rate of sexual assault an hazing is lower inside the military than it is on college campuses, and considering it's all young people. I think that's a positive.
> Can you provide anything that shows they get new shit and that all this equipment is actually worth a damn?The fact that I've been issued that shit and used it for many months at a time in a foreign country.
>Digital camoNot a bad idea, only the Army fucked it up. Yes, it was corruption, yes, they were issuing new FRACUs with multicam pattern to anyone going to Afghanistan after a while.
>the first iterations of the M-16Just the first one, and that was fixed almost immediately. Ironically, it was an effort to save money, not corruption that fucked that one up.
>USS ZumwaltYou'll have to explain this one. I don't know anything about ships.
>F-35The people complaining about it are not engineers, and that one guy on YT makes claims that are demonstrably false.
>Like I said in my first post I don't know the state of Russias Military but I do not they don't have the corruption problem the U.S has.No, it's way worse.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/03/21/corruption-in-russias-military-quadrupled-in-2018-prosecutors-say-a64907> It also doesn't have a divided population beaten down by 2 years of the pandemic and 40 years of junk food. I don't know if this is a consolation to you, but that divide doesn't really exist within the armed forces. It's just the job for the vast majority of them, and at least within the infantry and other combat roles, fitness is practiced well and not the issue of the civilian population at large.
No.495164
>>495069This. When the International Media on all phony “sides” is desperately trying to hype something and nothing happens you know it’s Bullshit, LOL.
>>495109This desire to take sides in Inter-Imperialist Conflicts and believe that the Chinese/Russian-led Imperialist Bloc and their goal of “Multipolarity” is worth supporting is a classic example of Marcyite Crypto-Fascism that must be confronted by any Authentic Marxists as explained by this highly informative article
https://struggle-sessions.com/2019/02/28/marcyism-is-crypto-fascism/ .
>>495129Your insinuation that every part of Ukraine that voted for Yanukovych in the 2010 presidential election is majority Ethnic Russian and should be “Liberated” by Putinist Russia is Great Russian Chauvinist propaganda promoted by Eurasianist/Nazbol Fascists like Dugin (the “Novorossiya” myth), that is easily disproved by the map I posted of the results of the 2001 Ukrainian census that shows that only Crimea is majority Ethnic Russian (and rightfully belonging to Russia), while the rest of the Pre-2014 Ukraine is majority Ethnic Ukrainian and has been for hundreds of years (the 1896 Russian Imperial census proves this), thus why these territories were always part of the Ukrainian SSR (Crimea was originally part of the Russian SFSR and was only placed into the Ukrainian SSR due to the Revisionist Khrushchev rewarding his Ukrainian supporters) despite the bitching of Great Russian Chauvinists.
No.495165
>>495157No chance it's taking centuries
Interconnectedness means everything happens at a lightning pace
That debt ceiling the US raised every year will come home to roost and de-dollarisation happens
When the world's countries no longer accept the dollar as a reserve currency the $ is going to Zimbabwe levels of inflation
Russia and China won't allow the US reserve currency to be a reserve currency beyond 2026
No.495167
>>495163zUmvalt is a "littoral combat ship", am experimental class of ship meant to replace traditional destroyers which turned out to be a failure
No.495168
>>495164I dont really care who's russian and who's ukrainian. I believe in the independence of novorossiya and the expansion of transnistria, not the absorption of donetsk and luhansk into russia lmao. I do hope that whatever happens, ukraine dies.
No.495169
>>495164Again the retarded king schizo.
Hey, king schizo, was the USSR eurasianist because they had Azarbaijan in their territories?
Also, the "propaganda" that Yanukovich was voted for the pro-Russian factions came from the ultra-nationalists in Ukraine, not from Russia.
Tell me how to be this schizo so I can be happier for being ignorant, please. Tell me your secret. Is it drugs? someone wacks your head everyday?
No.495171
>>495167Eh, whatever, some experiments fail. The only one I wish they'd bring back is the Ekranoplan. That thing was just cool.
No.495172
China
No.495175
Well, apparently Zelenski has withdrawn the fabrications of the invasions, calling diplomats to stay in Ukraine. This contradicts his declarations in the past (he ran to contradict his interior minister in the past one day after the same minister said nothing was happening).
No.495176
>>495163>Corruption in Russia’s military has quadrupled to 7 billion rubles ($109.8 million) last year, the top federal military prosecutor said on Thursday.Thats pretty quint compared to the likely trillions lost to defense contractors and the pentagon. Of course the U.S doesn't consider that corruption. Bribing a senator is practically legal in the states.
also
<I don't know if this is a consolation to you, but that divide doesn't really exist within the armed forces. It's just the job for the vast majority of them, and at least within the infantry and other combat roles, fitness is practiced well and not the issue of the civilian population at large.If theres a major conflict the U.S will have to start recruiting form it pool of citizens. Given the fact that 70% of civilians of military age aren't fit to serve. And America is very divided I can see a war that would require a draft being politically sustainable.
Lastly the airforce admitted the F-35 was a disaster.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/02/23/the-us-air-force-just-admitted-the-f-35-stealth-fighter-has-failed/?sh=551e00b41b16Look I'm not going be a contrarian and say Russia would steam roll through the U.S, however I don't see the U.S being capable of sustaining a conventional war with a major power. Russia would win through attrition. And mostly the U.S tearing itself up when riots start over the draft and republicans are bombing recruitment stations because they don't want to serve in the trans army to fight based putin.
No.495177
>>495175Keeping foreign diplomats in ukraine gives other countries an incentive to prevent war. He's trying to use diplomats as a "human shield" to deter russian invasion because zelensky is a pussy boi who is shitting his pants.
No.495178
>>495177Now, this is a good shitposting.
No.495179
>>495177But he literally declared that they would "de-occupy" Crimea months ago, when we were in this exact same situation? It's why Russia has a hundred thousand troops on their border.
What the fuck is happening?
No.495180
>>495176>If theres a major conflict the U.S will have to start recruiting form it pool of citizens. Given the fact that 70% of civilians of military age aren't fit to serve. And America is very divided I can see a war that would require a draft being politically sustainable. Anon, that's not a terrible number to have, and we can always waive GEDs or small criminal records. That happened during the surge already.
>Look I'm not going be a contrarian and say Russia would steam roll through the U.S, however I don't see the U.S being capable of sustaining a conventional war with a major power. Russia would win through attrition. And mostly the U.S tearing itself up when riots start over the draft and republicans are bombing recruitment stations because they don't want to serve in the trans army to fight based putin.You realize that the US has more people and troops than the Russians, right? If you're talking attrition, it's not the US that would lose.
As for your article, it's the usual suspects, and the F-35 was never supposed to be a low-end fighter. It was supposed to replace and simplify the entire service. Yes, they are making a new fighter because it takes years to develop. Contrast this with the Russians who developed a fighter plane only to admit that they could not afford to buy it. It's a world of difference.
No.495181
>>495163>https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/03/21/corruption-in-russias-military-quadrupled-in-2018-prosecutors-say-a64907Again with NATO lolcow news? You can read TASS about the policies being deployed to stop corruption there, that effectively curved corruption. Also, it is interesting how they re-cite themselves in their links, aaaaand of course "transparency international" is the source to say "Russia ranks as the one of the top corrupted armies"
T.I. is just western propaganda to put the west as 0 corrupted nation.
See if you see in T.I. a rank of countries that haven't prosecuted criminal wars, like if NATO isn't plagued of them.
Make youself a favor of not reading such garbage media.
No.495182
>>495181How does this logic make sense to you. Moscowtimes is lolcow nato news then TASS which is Russian state owned news should be taken in earnest and trusted as to the good Russia is doing
By your analysis we should just read Russia state news to know what is going on in Russia right? And everything else is fake?
No.495183
>>495169Obviously their was nothing “Eurasianist” about the Azerbaijani SSR being part of the USSR, because the USSR was a federation of Socialist Soviet Republics (ie. SSRs) that was meant to eventually become a Global Socialist Federation with every major ethnic group worldwide receiving their own SSR or ASSR, after Socialism vanquished Capitalism and Imperialism into the dust-pan of history (setting the stage for the slow evolution into Communism), before the Revisionists ruined everything after Stalin’s death.
“Eurasianism” is some schizo Fascist ideology of White Russian Anti-Communist Vlasovites (ie. Putin and Dugin) that is inspired by a combination of the imaginary empire in Orwell’s shitty Anti-Soviet Dystopian novel and the racist Nazi belief that Ethnic Russians are mixed-race “Eurasians”, which merged into this delusional idea that Capitalist Russia should become a Fascist Empire called “Eurasia” that would conqueror all the territories of the former Russian Empire and forcibly assimilate (Cultural Genocide similar to what Dengist China is doing to the Uyghurs in East Turkestan) all the Non-Russian ethnic groups of this region into a artificial “Eurasian” identity which is the polar opposite of the USSRs National Delimitation policy based on Lenin’s principle of “Self-Determination for all Oppressed Nations” that Great Russian Chauvinists like Putin and Dugin despise so much (both of them have accused Lenin of “betraying” Russia by granting self-determination to Ukrainians and Belarusians in their own SSRs).
No.495184
>>709324>Moscowtimes is lolcow nato news to be distrustedSimply, fuck NATO and their minions.
The biggest corruption never evaluated by the west is the abundant resources stolen from imperialism/colonialism, and they will never do a study/report on such a thing.
For example, $2.5B in corruption of Russia between 3 years?
That's less than $1B per year. Do you know how much has costs the U.S. embargo to Cuba?
The number varies but it is much more than $2B per year:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba-economy-un-idUSKBN1IA00Thttps://www.cbsnews.com/news/cuba-us-embargo-causes-1-trillion-in-losses/But the west will never report this as corruption, of course not.
No.495185
>>495184>But the west will never report this as corruption, of course not.Why would they? It's the official policy of the US government to embargo Cuba. Corruption would be to enforce the embargo yet somehow still trade with them for the personal gain of a few in power, yet that isn't happening.
No.495186
>>495184You encouraged people to read TASS which is Russian state owned news to know what is going on in Russia
How does that make sense to you when you call other outlets fake news? What gives it credibility to you on then properly presenting you the problems going on there?
And I rewrote my post here cause typo
>>495182 No.495187
>>495183>Putin and Dugin>can't cite one single time Putin said Dugin's name.>Can't point out how Russia is "eurasianist" if they haven't even regained control over Azerbaijan as the USSR had.
>SCHIZOISM FTW!With to be this retard, tbh. Everything would be easier.
No.495190
>>495185>It's the official policy of the US government to embargo CubaThen why anyone would care about western NATO funded opinions and twisted facts?
>mfw>Corruption would be to enforce the embargo yet somehow still trade with them for the personal gain of a few in powerVery communist of you, lol
The fact that Cuba is being emargoed was to make suffer those who decided truly be free. The gain is for those who implemented the embargo, which is corruption for the sakes of making people abroad suffer, yet T.I. "le based corruption outlet" doesn't report this, not like the number of warcriminals not prosecuted.
>How does that make sense to you when you call other outlets fake news?>better read western NATO news about Russia.Jesus, are we having an invasion of pol trolls?
No.495191
Russian and Ukrainian workers must turn their guns on the rich.
No.495192
>>495188>Ctrl+f>"Dugin">zero resultsYou do know not everything with the word "Eurasian" is part of that ideology?
No.495193
>>495190>How does that make sense to you when you call other outlets fake news?>better read western NATO news about Russia.This isn't what I said. You encouraged people to read TASS
Defend the merits of reading TASS for understanding what is happening in Russia. It was you who recommended it
No.495195
>>495188>Dugin name times appeared in Wikipedia: 0Yeah… confirmed schizo.
>>495192aw, you went ahead.
No.495196
>>495189Transnistria has more legitimate credentials and reasons to be a country. "Not-Ukraine" is just gay and fake.
No.495198
>>495197The person said we need to read TASS to understand Russia
Im asking them backup why it is required to read Russian state media and why Russian state media would actually show and present the weaknesses in their country properly and critically. They are dodging my question
No.495199
>>495191Ukraine is basically condemned to capitalism as long as Russia and especially the US have interests there. Ukraine is too important to simply let socialists take over. The US will absolutely murder them.
>>495194How many healthcares worth of funding is this getting. You know, it would be hilarious to measure these things in Healthcare spending.
>The US will fund Ukraine security forces with 0.5 Universal Healthcares. No.495201
>>495197>weWe, the nation. I'm not defending the F-35. I'm just stating facts, and the fact is that all the doomsaying didn't amount to much. I don't think the US should be expansionist, but it is a competent military apparatus, and this is undeniable.
No.495202
>>495193>>495193>This isn't what I said. You encouraged people to read TASSBut you screeched over the attack I did on lolcow news, the immediate interpretation doubting to read about how they do things is that we have to read lolcow news.
You read what you want, we have already a lot of Russia haters here, do what they want. I don't care. Expect being called out for those who can see transparently through western propaganda, if you don't want to do it, go ahead.
Now see how AES states rank in corruption in T.I, guess we now have to point out, and we have to say "it's worse" than the U.S.therefore 0 support for them.
And of course, the Russian. military corruption isn't even as big as the U.S., not in net numbers, nor in percapita numbers.
No.495203
>>495202>But you screeched over the attack I did on lolcow newsFalse. I'm 100% behind calling news spreading lies. My issue is completely that your counter to what you perceived and analyzed as media lying is to recommended that people read Russian state media (TASS) to get properly informed on Russia
Which is a bullshit recommendation going from one extreme to the other
No.495205
>>495156>>495160>>495176As everyone knows my position is that World War III will never happen due to the integration of Dengist China and Putinist Russia in the Global Imperialist-Capitalist System. However, in a “Alternate” universe where World War III did occur, the U$ would crush Putinist Russia and Dengist China in High-intensity Conventional conflict. The capitulation of Dengist China and Putinist Russia would not result from successful invasions culminating in the capture of Moscow and Beijing (this would obviously trigger a Nuclear War that neither side desires). Instead, it results from the combined effects of U$ Naval blockades (which prevent Dengist China from exporting its cheap garbage and Putinist Russia from exporting its Oil/Gas, thus torpedoing their already fragile economies rife with corruption), Conventional Military defeat in Eastern Europe (ie. the repelling of Russian invasions in Poland, the Baltic states, and Ukraine etc.) and East Asia (ie. The repelling of the DPRK/Chinese invasion in the Korean Peninsula, the Chinese invasion of Taiwan, the Chinese forces in the South China Sea, and the Chinese invasion of Vietnam) at the hands of vastly superior U$ and allied Air, Naval, and Ground forces (both the quantity and quality of U$ military equipment is vastly superior to its Russian, and especially Chinese counterparts), the invasion and overthrow of all their major allies worldwide (The DPRK, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Belarus, Cuba, and Venezuela, would all be successfully invaded by U$ and Allied forces, in coordination with local opposition and separatist forces, with the DPRKs and Pakistan’s weak Nuclear arsenals destroyed by B-2 Stealth bombers before they could be deployed), and unlimited Air campaigns against Putinist Russia and Dengist China themselves by U$ B-2 Stealth Bombers, ALCMs launched by B-52s and B-1s, and Tomahawk cruise missiles launched by Ships and Submarines. This would ultimately culminate in the total collapse of the Russian and Chinese economies, which would lead to massive Civil unrest, Ethnic separatist uprisings (by North Caucasian Muslims in Russia, and by Uyghurs and Tibetans in China), Mass starvation in China (The U$ Naval blockade would deprive Dengist China of all its imported foodstuffs with tragic consequences), and Military Coups in both countries that install governments willing to strike a Peace deal with the U$.
No.495206
>>495203>I'm 100% behind calling news spreading lies>by posting lolcow news>>495203>Which is a bullshit recommendation going from one extreme to the otherWell, in these situations there's not much of a middle ground. No time for mild positions. Tepidity is also not good.
No.495207
>>495206>>by posting lolcow newsI posted that article, not him, and I wasn't aware of its reputation. What exactly is wrong with Moscow Times?
No.495208
>>495194There's no contradiction in US on Ukraine situation, it's a matter of priorities rather than opinion, i.e. US is supposed to fight China, and Ukraine is a huge fucking distraction. Contradiction US has on this is a very minor one: "guys, let's focus on China!" vs "we need to sell gas to Europe right fucking now!". So, the extent US will push Ukrainian nonsense is entirely dependent on China doing something to make USA rage and forget about Ukraine.
No.495210
>"We must back Russia because US is the bad bad and betrayed Russia!!!"
>"Ukraine is a victim that can do no wrong!!
We must support an American invasion because Putin is le fascist(trust me bro)!!!!"
>"I am too cowardly to have my own position! BOTH SIDES BAD!!"
Stop the pointless moralizing, please. What are realistic scenarios if either side wins? or no one does?
For example, Military defeat tends to lead to great political dissatisfaction and turmoil. Where would this be more fruitful, the US or Russia?
No.495211
>>495210US, obviously. US falling apart lets free every country oppressed by US imperialism. Most immediately - Cuba finally getting trade it wants.
No.495212
>How many healthcares worth of funding is this getting. You know, it would be hilarious to measure these things in Healthcare spending.
>The US will fund Ukraine security forces with 0.5 Universal Healthcares.
I support this idea. Let me do some research and i'll determine the numbers.
>10 years of universal healthcare would cost;
Sanders has said publicly that economists estimate Medicare for All would cost somewhere between $30 trillion and $40 trillion over 10 years. Research by the nonpartisan Urban Institute, a Washington, D.C., think tank, puts the figure in the $32 trillion to $34 trillion range.
>ukraine defense bill - $503 million
Divide 35 trillion by ten…
>3 trillion 5 hundred billion for one year of universal healthcare
3500000000000 / 500000000
1/7000th of a year of free healthcare
No.495213
>>495205t. burger coping with his country's obvious and inevitable decline
Stop publicly jerking off to your chauvinist power fantasies Lear, we get it, you used to be a /pol/ack
Also in which redditoid shithole did you get that neoliberal monstrosity of a map?
No.495215
>>495211but is it realistic that the US would fall apart from losing a war/skirmish/conflict over ukraine? Neither Vietnam or Afghanistan lead to the US collapsing.
I could see it leading to the collapse of NATO though, as the US's credibility would take a massive hit.
On the other hand, russia losing could very well lead to the collapse of Putin. Who would be more likely to pick up the pieces? Navalny-style libs or the communists?
No.495216
>>495205>which prevent Dengist China from exporting its cheap garbageWithout the USA receiving it's shipments of cheap garbage they'd balkanise within a few days
Amerifats should thank Dengist China as their industrial base is what holds the consoomers into a barely coherent society
>Putinist Russia from exporting its Oil/GasGood luck on getting Europe to agree to dying in their beds in Winter so the Burgers can stick it to Putin
No.495217
>>495207IIRC it is funded by Russian expat megaporkies living abroad with help from NATO-linked "democracy promotion" NGOs. Basically it's the voice of Russia's pro-western "liberal opposition", very conspicuously published in English. If TASS is Russian state media then Moscow Times is anti-state media. This doesn't mean everything they publish is false, but you should keep this bias in mind, just as with RT and the like.
No.495218
>>495208I think there is a contradiction and the American ruling class has divided interest between china and Russia. The republican bougs want to draw closer to Russia because of cultural affinities and oil/gas. They love the idea of Russia being a bunch of bear riding oil men that hate gay people. While your dem boug want to go with China because it's a giant up and coming market and they need to hawk Iphones and marvel movies to someone. I think this divid is whats going to stop a war because the ruling class is paralyzed by culture war shit it manufactured.
No.495219
>>495217It's actually worse than that
Moscow Times is owned by the Dutch government and basically just uses "Moscow Times" to wash Dutch liberal views disguised as "dissident liberal Russians"
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Moscow_Times No.495220
>>495214operator error actually, you'll have to blame the British on this one (and make it double for the leak of top secret material that makes them look like fools)
No.495221
the whole "roooosia is about to invade!" is just a psy-ops so that when a new security agreement gets signed later this year with butthurt belt being unofficially thrown under the bus the US can claim they averted a war
No.495224
Lots of people in here would be calling Lenin a German agent in 1917 for daring to oppose the bourgeoisie of his own country it seems.
Remember the first duty of a communist is to overthrow their own national bourgeoisie, and then work to spread revolution.
No.495225
>>495224We can't. We're weak. The left is dead. It'll take decades longer in order resurrect it.
No.495227
>>495225Hello officer. You browse here too?
Lenin was in Switzerland, Trotsky was in New York. A few women who couldn't even vote overthrew the Tsar after a mass crackdown by the police on the 'left' leadership. Shutting off the valves of frustration don't relieve the pressure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_Revolution No.495229
>>495224Are you saying that a principled anti-Russian and anti-NATO post on leftypol will help take down my national bourgeoisie? Down with Putin! Down with the West!..
No.495230
>>4952151) A breakdown of the military agreements underpinning NATO will do good for the prospects of eastern and western communist movements
2) A russian defeat will likely not generate the force necessary to oust Putin and Yedinros, since “he protects us from Pindostan and Gayrope” are one of the few ways the above manufacture consent for themselves
3) In the event that Putin’s government is replaced, it’d likely be with NATO and US-Friendly Liberals. As for the KPRF, if they take power it’d be marginally better for Russia, but they still have Nato at their doorstep and, being communists even in name, have a bullseye painted on their asses
No.495231
>>495229>a principled anti-Russian and anti-NATO post on leftypol will help take down my national bourgeoisieMaybe if makes you go away from the computer instead of making you regurgitate whatever propaganda is spewed by one or the other of the imperialist blocs
No.495232
>>495226>>495227Lenin oh Lenin, you already got Leonardo DiCaprio as Lenin doppelganger. And you can add Scarlet Johansson as his wife. With Gucci funds & burgers Hollywood, you can get them back.
No.495233
>>495231If we all went away from our computers, we would not be posting here on leftypol. Stop acting like your internet posts mean anything
No.495234
Where are all the USA shills coming from? Lmao
No.495235
>>495224Russia is not the same country it was in 1914. Pretending that conditions are the exact same as WW1 it reassuring because it's simple and we know exactly how to react, but it's also completely incorrect.
Not that it *really* matters because I'm not sure anyone from Russia even browses /leftypol/ and if they did, they would just be one communist shouting into the abyss, but it's the principle of the matter. Having correct foreign policy takes will help us have correct domestic takes which MIGHT actually matter someday.
No.495236
>>495234>Where are all the USA shills coming from? LmaoLangley.
No.495237
>ctrl+f ukraine
>79 results
Rent free
No.495238
>>495237>A Ukraine general mentions Ukraine repeatedly, how curiouswhat
No.495240
Why is everyone acting like this is a Happening? Im 31 and have seen worse situations or near happenings that ended up being nothing burgers than this one. In a couple months everyone will forget about Ukraine, including the media.
No.495243
>>495240People are desperate for happenings because the world is clearly on the precipice of some big crisis but it's impossible to know what the trigger will be. So ANY event might be the trigger.
No.495244
>>495243What if we become the trigger?
No.495245
>>495194>emoji twitterWhat is emoji twitter?
No.495246
>>4952441917 WILL commence again if they shut down Leftypol.org, mark my words
No.495247
>>495242The eternal khokholoid strikes again
No.495248
>>495241mfw I thought the Spielberg Lenin biopic was real
No.495250
>>495198You are acting like privately owned media is
less biased.
No.495251
>>495249Based and Gavrilo-pilled
No.495255
>>495244We need some based retard to falseflag either the khokhols or the russians
No.495256
>>495244>>495255Kindly avoid saying things that can be construed as fedposting
No.495258
>>495243And even if it's a nothingburger, even if the politicos and spooks are just posturing and laughing at us, it still highlights that they have the finger on the trigger. It's not so much that the bomb suit is fake but that the madmen are willing to conduct themselves with suicide murder blackmail that matters.
Like fuck, we are not a year off Afghanistan and the US is aching to cause another nuclear standoff. Even if they de-escalate you can't threaten with WW3 and then go back to normal as if you just hadn't.
No.495259
>>495224Since most people here are probably American I guess you mean they should support Russia in this?
No.495261
>>495256I'm not a fed silly, you're being too paranoid
No.495265
>>495219Imagine being a degree even worse than mouthpiece to discraced bourgeois.
Amazing
No.495266
>>495265There's worse.
https://artsandculture.google.com/entity/monarchism-in-russia/g11jgf8qd9?hl=en"The only political parties as of today which advocates such a restoration is the Monarchist Party and the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia"
No.495267
>>495266So many Liberal Democratic parties around the world the Russian one has to be the most schizophrenic by far
No.495268
>>495209"just gib them nukes lmao"
i thought yvropeans were supposed to be smart
No.495270
>>495269>That first picTwitteroids are obsessed subhumans. That Liberty Hangout guy is still a retard though he has so many schizo tier takes that he probably has positive opinions from every possible political ideology
No.495272
>>495269lol liberty hangout girl shat herself at a Kent State frat party lmao
true kkklown
No.495273
>>495271What subreddit is that? Also I can't tell is that comment pro or anti Putin?
No.495274
>>495272Wtf, Kaitlin Bennet is Liberty Hangout??
No.495275
>>495274yeah, one in the same
No.495276
>>495275It's not her who runs the account
If you read the tweets it's obviously a guy writing all the stuff
No.495277
>>495271>Putin represents the loudest voice [gag] in Western civilization for cementing billionaire power>implying billionaire power hasn't already been long cemented>implying it's Putin, not American plutocrats, running the showYep, this is a certified Reddit moment
>>495273Obviously anti-Putin
No.495278
>>495205You're mistaken if you believe this.
While the Us is still more powerful than China and Russia, is definitely not more powerful than the two of them together.
Besides that, EU Porkies do not want total war (except Eastern european ones), so it would be just Anglos+Japan+Eastern Europeans which is a powerful coalition and would probably still win a confrontation, but a price so high that the consequences for them would be devastating.
Moreover if we consider nuclear weapons as an option hypersonics effectively guarantee MAD.
No.495282
>>495278You should also consider that the entire Us naval strategy against China is based on having Indonesia and the Philippines as puppet states.
As of now this is the case but if the PRC uncucks itself with regards to the Philippines it could not be the case anymore.
No.495283
>>709640
we did it reddit
No.495284
>>495273>What subreddit is that?r/politics. Again, I admit the low-hanging fruit
No.495285
>>495272wow she is ugly. sauce on the shitting herself?
No.495286
>>495285Careful what you wish for…
No.495287
>>495277If you read USAno media you'd think that Putin(not Russia) is deploying troops to USA's border while he strides across the Atlantic ocean himself, gargantuan colossus he is, after reducing Europe to dust under his steps. And the USA is this desperate last bastion of survivors, last hope for free humanity, scrambling to figure out solutions for this overwhelming threat.
It's like a shitty anime you expect to break down into a series of fan-service episodes and forget the plot at any moment.
No.495288
>>495285look it up; i don't wanna look at that pic again
No.495289
>>495287What would be the fanservice beach episodes tho
No.495292
>>495290it's not happening.
screenshot this
No.495293
it's not happening
No.495294
if dubs then it's happening
No.495296
>>495295it's not happening. This whole thing is because of a Russian/Belarussian military exercise on the Western border. Nobody is shilling for war with Ukraine in official Russian media. Ukrainian media is also saying that it's not gonna be happening.
No.495297
>>495296No one actually knowledgeable about the matter is sincerely concerned that Russia is gonna invade. The question is whether NATO is gonna use a ""Russian Invasion Plan"" as a pretext for their own aggression.
No.495301
>>495164>This desire to take sides in Inter-Imperialist Conflicts and believe that the Chinese/Russian-led Imperialist Bloc and their goal of “Multipolarity” is worth supporting is a classic example of Marcyite Crypto-Fascism that must be confronted by any Authentic Marxists as explained by this highly informative articleThis article is garbage and fails to understand imperialism as a world system of monopoly capitalism that retards national development outside of the imperialist countries.
>>495164>Your insinuation that every part of Ukraine that voted for Yanukovych in the 2010 presidential election is majority Ethnic Russian and should be “Liberated” by Putinist Russia is Great Russian Chauvinist propaganda promoted by Eurasianist/Nazbol Fascists like Dugin (the “Novorossiya” myth), that is easily disproved by the map I posted of the results of the 2001 Ukrainian census that shows that only Crimea is majority Ethnic Russian (and rightfully belonging to Russia), while the rest of the Pre-2014 Ukraine is majority Ethnic Ukrainian and has been for hundreds of years (the 1896 Russian Imperial census proves this), thus why these territories were always part of the Ukrainian SSR (Crimea was originally part of the Russian SFSR and was only placed into the Ukrainian SSR due to the Revisionist Khrushchev rewarding his Ukrainian supporters) despite the bitching of Great Russian Chauvinists.This is also a distortion of the meaning of great Russian chauvinism, eurasianism, etc. The east and south of Ukraine was settled by a mix of populations in the Tsarist era, subsequently largely Russian speaking, and is not historically part of Ukraine. It was integrated into the Ukrainian SSR as a multicultural Soviet republic, which is incompatible with Ukrainization. Its urban populations had a lot of Russians, which is why the Russian revolution formed the donetsk krivoy rog soviet republic.
Great Russian chauvinism and eurasianism has nothing to do with this. One is a form of great nation chauvinism that attempts to Russify small nationalities, the other is an ideology of russias spiritual role in the world. Neither have anything to do with whether Ukraine is a.multinational state, which Stalin wrote of eastern states, and is reproducing a national question in the east through its reactionary vision of the nation already observed by the bolsheviks.
No.495302
30% of Ukrainians learned Russian as their first language iirc
No.495303
>>495022>sending vehicles over thousands of miles of unpaved wilderness in alaska and siberia instead of just sending them over to vladivostok on a boatholy retard batman
No.495304
JUST INBiden warns Putin with sanctions as West steps up Ukraine defenseshttps://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-seeks-protect-europes-energy-supplies-if-russia-invades-ukraine-2022-01-25/>He said on Tuesday that he would consider personal sanctions on Putin if he invades Ukraine, as Western leaders stepped up military preparations and made plans to shield Europe from a potential energy supply shock.Here are the countries withdrawing embassy staff from Ukraine amid growing fears of a Russian invasionhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/here-are-the-countries-withdrawing-embassy-staff-from-ukraine-amid-growing-fears-of-a-russian-invasion/ar-AAT90Lk>The United States and Britain are among the nations evacuating diplomats or dependents from embassies in Kyiv.US evacuated diplomats' families from Ukraine out 'abundance of caution,' acting ambassador sayshttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-evacuated-diplomats-e2-80-99-families-from-ukraine-out-abundance-of-caution/ar-AAT8Ssa>The acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine told ABC News Tuesday that an order for diplomats' families at the embassy to leave the country was issued because Russia could attack "any day now" if it chose.OnPolitics: Why should Americans should care about the Ukraine conflict?https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/onpolitics-why-should-americans-should-care-about-the-ukraine-conflict/ar-AAT8y5B>The U.S. has invested millions of dollars in military aid for Ukraine. The costs are projected to rise if Russia invades.Biden thinks Putin will invade Ukraine. Here's why the West is so worried.https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-russia-ukraine-invasion-nato-biden-rcna13245>Russian President Vladimir Putin has massed an estimated 100,000 troops on Ukraine's border, with the United States and NATO scrambling to deter an invasion.'Enormous consequences' if Ukraine is invaded, Biden says - as it happenedhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/jan/25/biden-ukraine-russia-washington-us-politics-live-latest?page=with:block-61f04fc98f080c18a34fab5c&filterKeyEvents=falseBiden Says Russian Invasion of Ukraine Could Be 'Largest Invasion Since WWII'https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/biden-says-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-could-be-largest-invasion-since-wwii/ar-AAT8Qld>President Joe Biden again warned Russia of severe consequences if it invades Ukraine, saying the military operation would have worldwide effects.White House seeks energy security plan for Europe amid Russia-Ukraine crisishttps://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/25/white-house-seeks-energy-security-plan-for-europe-amid-russia-ukraine-crisis.html>President Biden said "a disaster" awaits Russia after intelligence agencies warned that an attack on Ukraine could happen within a month.If not a full-scale invasion, what might a Russian attack on Ukraine look like? We've seen it before.https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukraine-invasion-putin-tactics-war-nato/>While some 100,000 Russian troops massed along Ukraine's borders fuels fear of a full-scale invasion, recent history suggests Vladimir Putin prefers more secretive tactics.U.S. Still Doesn't Have an Ambassador to Ukraine. Is It a Problem Amid Russia Tensions?https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-still-doesnt-have-an-ambassador-to-ukraine-is-it-a-problem-amid-russia-tensions/ar-AAT8tCj>Steven Pifer, a former ambassador to Ukraine, told Newsweek it's a "mystery" why the position has yet to be filled. No.495305
>>495304Damn that's a lot of glowie sources
No.495306
>>495304*American Invasion
Fixed
No.495307
>>495305Between this and RT it's glowie all the way anyway
No.495308
>>495019Russia says yes to everything but the indigenous peoples rights (it abstained), while the US opposed.
My country accedes to all of them (yay!). No.495309
proves that Russia is the better choice if compared to the for-profit American regime
No.495310
Ukraine is an invented nationality, they are just Russians with a dumb accent. It's as stupid as claiming NYC and upstate New York are different nationalities.
No.495312
>>495235Yeah it's a capitalist imperialist republic instead of a capitalist imperialist monarchy.
No.495313
>>495226Of course, which is why world revolution is needed, but it has to start somewhere.
No.495314
>>495311Other than the edgy tone what did you find so triggering in that article?
No.495315
>>495314It promotes both gain-of-function conspiracy theories and anti-vax shit. Hardly a reliable source.
No.495316
>>495315>>495315>It promotes both gain-of-function conspiracy theories and anti-vax shitWrong on both accounts but quote away.
No.495317
>>495316Just the fact that they put "vaccines" in quotes. Are you retarded?
No.495318
>>495308Random countries abstain all the time. That happens whenever there's a consensus already, so voting won't do anything, and countries just don't bother voting. There was something like that with regards to vote against rehabilitation of nazism IIRC.
No.495319
>>495164That map is bullshit. It talks about ethnicity, and shows Odessa as ethnically Ukrainian when according to latest polling, 89% speak Russian at home. Nationality data is consistently muddled by Ukrainian nationalists to make false claims.
No.495320
Status of the US: cucked
http://thesaker.is/tuesday-morning-headlines-a-little-change-of-tone-or-not/A few more links here, and amongst the many similar to yesterday’s, I decided to single out some possibly different ones:
NATO member will withdraw troops in event of war with Russia – president
Russia may not be poised to invade Ukraine – Pentagon
Germany has ‘betrayed’ Ukraine – Kiev mayor
No threat of immediate Russian attack on Ukraine – EU
Oleksiy Danilov informed about the results of the NSDC meeting
Zelensky to Ukrainians: Everything under control, no reason to panic
Ukraine urges calm, saying Russian invasion not imminent
Of course, this selection is very one-sided, there are many more headlines every bit as bad the ones yesterday, so let’s not make too much of this.
Also, please remember that in 08.08.08 Saakashvili made a speech promising peace to South Ossetia just HOURS before the Georgian forces attacked!
But what this does show, is that there is a “narrative chaos“.
Actually, this is just the tip of a much bigger iceberg. The fact is that Russia’s ultimatum has created chaos in the so-called “united West” pitting some part of the deep state elites against others. That, by itself, is already a very good outcome.
No.495321
>>495320The US already gave a written agreement to Russia but asked the agreement be kept secret. I wonder what was written in it?
No.495323
>>495304thank you based ukraine news anon
No.495325
>>495324and her house gets striked.
No.495328
>>495324Other commentators have said that the rifle in the picture is several thousand USD in a nation with about income per capita just several times that amount, so unless the glowies smuggle in more it is not likely that there'll be many of those in possession of random people.
No.495330
>>710331Anon, this is all claptrap. I've done more research on your retarded website. It's just a conspiracy site.
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/QAnonhttps://wikispooks.com/wiki/5G No.495331
>>495328You can have that setup for around $2500, if it's not airshit, that is.
No.495332
>>495330COVID immunity wears the fuck off, and that vaccines are shitty, they leak, and also wear off. We've known this shit for months, you idiot. Take it to COVID general.
No.495333
>>495332Anon, a lot of vaccines wear off. It doesn't change the fact that it is a vaccine and the source is a literal conspiracy site. This is disninfo by people that have no idea how they work.
No.495334
>>710397Why are you asking for information openly available on Moderna's Wikipedia page?
>>495333>on top of all the shitty Russia v. NATO takes, I now have idiots who ignored an entire year of COVID generalWhere the fuck did you idiots all come from?
No.495335
JUST INUkraine's front line: Where lives turn on distant decisionshttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraines-front-line-where-lives-turn-on-distant-decisions/ar-AAT9iXC>The trenches are dusted with snow and tinged with soot and dirt. Dull colors will cling to them for weeks to come, as the men inside search for enough cellphone signal to hear the latest from the distant capitals that will decide their fate.Russia holds military drills before four-way Ukraine talks in Parishttps://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russia-holds-military-drills-before-four-way-ukraine-talks-in-paris/ar-AAT9B93>Russia held military drills on Wednesday and deployed more forces and fighter jets to Belarus for exercises next month as officials prepared to sit down for four-way talks in Paris on the conflict in east Ukraine.Ukraine 'will not accept' concessions to Russia, Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba sayshttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-will-not-accept-concessions-to-russia-foreign-minister-dmytro-kuleba-says/ar-AAT7oeY>Ukraine "will not allow anyone to impose any concessions on us" as part of efforts to de-escalate the threat of conflict with Russia, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba told CNN in an exclusive interview Tuesday.U.S. steps up arms shipments to Ukraine, moves to protect Europe from a Kremlin-initiated fuel crisishttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-steps-up-arms-shipments-to-ukraine-moves-to-protect-europe-from-a-kremlin-initiated-fuel-crisis/ar-AAT9sfO>President Biden is moving to bolster support for European allies, some of whom rely on Moscow for their energy needs, as fears of a renewed Russian invasion loom.Italy Pressures CEOs to Scrap Putin Meeting: Ukraine Updatehttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/italy-pressures-ceos-to-scrap-putin-meeting-ukraine-update>The Italian government asked a group of top business leaders not to meet virtually with Russian President Vladimir Putin, as Germany and France pursue efforts to broker a peaceful resolution to the tensions over Ukraine.Why Germany might be the West's weak link in the Russia-Ukraine standoffhttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-ukraine-putin-invasion-germany-nato-biden-rcna13251>With Ukraine under growing threat from Russia, the United States and its NATO allies are stepping up their response. But Germany has been reluctant to join the West's more robust posture.How to Beat Putin: 13 Russia Watchers Game Out Next Steps in Ukraine (
COPE)
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/01/26/russia-ukraine-putin-experts-00000019>In the past month, Putin has escalated his long proxy war in two eastern provinces and accelerated a massive Russian troop buildup that now surrounds Ukraine on three sides. The United States, in response,Russia Steps Up Propaganda War Amid Tensions With Ukrainehttps://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/25/us/politics/russia-ukraine-propaganda-disinformation.html>The disinformation campaign includes claims that NATO and Ukrainian forces are preparing to attack Russian speakers in Ukraine.except that
it may be true. OK Coping News Network
NATO retards (here "experts") from NATO cuntpitalist shitholes disagree on how to approach Ukraine.https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/26/experts-nato-countries-disagree-how-approach-ukraine/>NATO members in Europe have begun deploying ships and fighter planes to Eastern Europe, a move NATO officials say is aimed at “reinforcing Allied deterrence and defense as Russia continues its military build-up in and around Ukraine.” No.495336
>>495334I don't spend my life on imageboards and my job actually requires me to know shit about these vaccines, all of which you have wrong. My question to you isn't where you came from, but where do you think your life is going?
No.495340
>>495339> For example, the 1939 non-aggression pact between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, also known as the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, which helped precipitate World War II, is politically inconvenient for the Putin regime. In 2020, in an attempt to minimize and rationalize Stalin’s decision to align himself with Hitler, Putin published a twisted version of the start of World War II, downplaying the Soviet role and shifting blame for the war to other countries.In what fucking way did the Soviets help start WW2 ffs. They were literally invaded by the Nazis themselves. And if anything, M-R pact helped stave off war on the eastern front for a little while by creating a buffer. This is total nonsense.
No.495341
>>495340ww2 was supposed to be nazis vs soviets and then france & uk/us would swoop in and crush the weakened winners
but adolf changed the game and stalin refused to lose
No.495342
>>495340That's not what that said. It does say that the USSR had a role with the Axis at the start. I'd like to see how exactly what Putin's "twisted version" says, though.
No.495343
>>495342Lol, I just looked it up. Guy ended up blaming Poland and justifying the invasion by USSR. It's pretty stupid on both sides. The only ones to blame for the start of WWII are the Nazis.
No.495344
>>495328It might just be the media having some gran gran pose and act tough
No.495349
>>495324bitch is about to get blasted against the wall from the recoil of that gun
No.495350
>>495339>For example, the 1939 non-aggression pact between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, also known as the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, which helped precipitate World War II, is politically inconvenient for the Putin regime.For Western history of World war 2 it is convenient to start the timer at September 1939
You can't go even a week back before this narrative is shattered (when Britain and France formally rejected an alliance with Soviet Union)
USA was instrumental in letting the fascists take over Spain (against the wishes of their own people)
Which laid the groundwork for the domination of Europe (in 1936-1938) for Nazi Germany and Italy to dominate the continent
<A Gallup Poll of that far time reveals that 76% of the American public favored a victoiy of the Republic over Spanish Fascism.-[Arthur Landis, Spain The Unfinished Revolution, P.204]
<“The Spanish Oligarchy was getting all the planes and other equipment it needed from Germany and Italy, but neither could supply the gasoline and motor transport vital to the army. The United States saw to that . .. . An American oil company took a long gamble on a Rebel victory by supplying great quantities of aviation gasoline, ordinary gasoline, and motor oil on credit. It was a successful business venture. The Germanplanes which bombed Guernica, the first blitzed city of history; the Italian planes which mowed down hundreds of refugees on the road to Mataro beyond Barcelona; the Axis air power which smashed the resistance of weary Republican forces on a dozen fronts—all of these planes were powered by American fuel . . . . Knowing this, it is easy to understand why I found it difficult to suppress a shudder when José María Doussinague, Under-Secretary of the Foreign Ministry, told me in 1945, when the Family was shifting its policy toward the victors of the Second World War: 'You must understanding that we do not hate the United States. Without American trucks and American credits we could never have won the CivilWar!"Charlez Folts, The Masquerade in Spain, p.51-52
<The refusal of the American Company, Vacuum Oil, to service ships of the Republican Navy at Tangiere, as per contract, has already been noted. This act, however, was only the beginning. In fact, two days prior to this, in the very first hours of the revolt, five oil tankers, associated with Standard Oil were on the high-seas en- route to Spain, fulfilling a contractual agreement between TEXACO and Spain’s CAMPSA. The director of Texaco, Captain Thorkild Rieber, sent a radiogram ordering all ships to change routes and to sail to a port occupied by the rebelling Fascist- Military. Once there, they were to unload their gasoline, with all necessary credits immediately extended to the Rebels. 1 One hardly need suggest that this was closer to an act of war than to one of neutrality-[Arthur Landis, Spain The Unfinished Revolution, P.204]
<Senator Gerald Nye, Republican of North Dakota, deplored a situation in which American policy had been tied to that of Great Britain; saying on the floor of the Senate: <“Mr. President If this action this afternoon is to be conceived, as I am going to conceive it, in the light of an effort to keep the hands of the United States clean and removed from the danger of being drawn quickly into that war or strife in Europe, I am quite willing that it shall be done; but I hope it is not going to be done in the name of neutrality, for, strictly speaking, neutrality it is not” 4 <Representative Mauiy Maverick, Democrat from the State of Texas, stated bluntly: “We are now reversing a policy of 150 years by not being neutral, by refraining from sending munitions to the duly authorized Government of Spain” 5 -[Arthur Landis, Spain The Unfinished Revolution, P.204]
<"We are convinced that our Law of Neutrality has most likely aided the aggressor and prevented aid from reaching the victims of aggression." -American President Roosevelt -[Arthur Landis, Spain The Unfinished Revolution, P.397]
No.495351
>>495349It's 5.56, you noguns faggot. You can shoot that one-handed.
No.495352
>>495342The document states that the Soviets had a role in starting WW2.
No.495353
>>495343The rise of Mussolini and the NDSAP was directly tied to Wallstreet and London
The banking collapse of Germany (which led directly to Wallstreet getting the NDSAP into power) was direct policy of JP Morgan and the Bank of England
<The unstable international monetary order imposed after Versailles by London and New York bankers on a defeated central Europe came to an abrupt, if predictable, end in 1929. Montagu Norman, then the world’s most infl uential central banker as governor of the Bank of England, precipitated the crash of the Wall Street stock market in October 1929. Norman had asked the governor of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, George Harrison, to raise U.S. interest rate levels. Harrison complied, and the most dramatic fi nancial and economic collapse in U.S. history ensued in the following months. By early 1931, Montagu Norman and a small circle in the British establishment had plans to shift the political dynamic in central Europe in a most astonishing manner. At the time, Austria’s largest banking institution was the Creditanstalt of Vienna. Closely tied to the Austrian branch of the house of Rothschild, the Creditanstalt had grown during the 1920s through an unhealthy process of merging smaller troubled banks. The largest such merger was forced onto Creditanstalt during the month of the October 1929 stock market crash, when it was asked by the authorities to take over the Vienna Bodenkreditanstalt, a real estate lender which itself had swallowed several other unhealthy banks in the previous years.
<J.P. Morgan bankers had already proved to themselves the usefulness of radical top-down political solutions to ensure repayment of bank loans, when they gave foreign credit to the fascist regime of Italian strongman Benito Mussolini. In November 1925, Italian Finance Minister Volpi di Misurata announced that the Mussolini government had reached an agreement on repaying the Versailles war debts of Italy to Britain and the United States. One week later, J.P. Morgan & Co., fi nancial agents of the Mussolini government in the United States, announced a crucial $100 million loan to Italy to ‘stabilize the lira.’ In reality, Morgan had decided to stabilize Mussolini’s fascist regime. On the urging of J.P. Morgan & Co. and Montagu Norman, governor of the Bank of England, Volpi di Misurata established in 1926 a single Italian central bank, the Bank of Italy, to control national monetary policy and further ensure repayment of foreign debts. Mussolini had shown himself to be the ideal strongman to discipline Italian labor unions, drive down wages and enforce suffi cient austerity to guarantee foreign bank lending, or so thought Morgan’s people in New York.
<The man who controlled U.S. monetary policy at the time, former Morgan banker Benjamin Strong, an intimate personal friend and collaborator of Britain’s Montagu Norman, met with Volpi and the Bank of Italy governor, Bonaldo Stringher, to confi rm the fi nal details of the Italian ‘stabilization’ program. From Poland to Romania during the 1920s, the same combination of powerful persons—J.P. Morgan & Co., Montagu Norman and the New York Federal Reserve—organized effective economic control over most countries of Continental Europe, under the pretext of the establishment of ‘creditworthy’ national policies—an informal precursor of the role of the International Monetary Fund in the 1980s. The New York banks were the source of the signifi cant short-term capital for this lending, and the Bank of England, together with the British Foreign Offi ce establishment, provided the political experience to impose the policy. 13
<For his part, Schacht was anything but idle after his resignation from the Reichsbank. He devoted his full energies to organizing financial support for the man he and his close friend, Bank of England governor Norman, agreed was the man for Germany’s crisis. Since 1926 Schacht had secretly been a backer of the radical National Socialist German workers’ Party (NSDAP) or Nazi party of Adolf Hitler. After resigning his Reichsbank post, Schacht acted as a key liaison between powerful, but skeptical, German industrial leaders, the so-called ‘Schlotbarone’ of the Ruhr, and foreign fi nancial leaders, especially Britain’s Lord Norman
<British policy at this juncture was to create the ‘Hitler Project,’ knowing fully what its ultimate geopolitical and military direction would be. As Colonel David Stirling, the founder of Britain’s elite Special Air Services, related in a private discussion almost half a century later, ‘The greatest mistake we British did was to think we could play the German Empire against the Russian Empire, and have them bleed one another to death.’ No.495354
>>495353London and Wall street orchestrated the collapse of German banks in order to gain control over central Europe, then they financed Hitlers rise to power
Without London and Wallstreet Hitler never would've come to power
<The British support for the Hitler option reached to the very highest levels. It included Britain’s prime minister, Neville Chamberlain, the man infamous for the 1938 Munich appeasement which set Hitler’s armies marching to Sudetenland in the east. Philip Kerr (later Lord Lothian), of the Cecil Rhodes Round Table group which we met earlier, was a close adviser to Neville Chamberlain. Lothian backed the Hitler project as part of the infamous Cliveden set in Brirish circles, as did Lord Beaverbrook, the most infl uential British press magnate of the day, who controlled the mass-circulation Daily Express and Evening Standard. But perhaps the most infl uential backer of Hitler’s movement at this time in Britain was the Prince of Wales, who became Edward VIII in early 1936, until his abdication at the end of the same year. Certain infl uential American establishment fi gures were hardly ignorant of what the Hitler movement was about. Leading Wall Street and U.S. State Department circles had been informed from an early stage. Even before the ill-fated 1923 Munich ‘beer hall putsch,’ a U.S. State Department offi cial stationed in Munich as part of the Versailles occupation of Germany, Robert Murphy, later a central fi gure in the postwar Bilderberg group, personally met the young Hitler through General Erich Ludendorff. Murphy, who had served under Allen Dulles in Berne during the First World War, gathering intelligence on the German Reich, was in Munich with another infl uential U.S. government offi cial, Truman Smith, assigned to U.S. Army intelligence occupying Germany.
<In his memoirs, Smith later recalled his arrival in Munich in late 1922: I talked at length about National Socialism with the Munich Consul, Mr. Robert Murphy (later a very distinguished American Ambassador), General Erich Ludendorff, Crown Prince Rupert of Bavaria and Alfred Rosenberg. The latter later became the political philosopher of the Nazi party. On this visit I also saw much of Ernst F.S. (‘Putzi’) Hanfstaengl, of the well-known Munich art family. ‘Putzi’ was a Harvard graduate and later became Hitler’s foreign press chief … My interview with Hitler lasted some hours. The diary I kept in Munich indicates I was deeply impressed by his personality and thought it likely that he would play an important part in German politics. In his November 1922 report to his superiors in Washington, Smith fi led the following recommendation regarding his evaluation of the tiny Hitler group. Speaking of Hitler, Smith said: His basic aim is the overthrow of Marxism … and the winning of labor to the nationalist ideals of state and property … The clash of party interests has … demonstrated the impossibility of Germany’s rescue from her present diffi culties through democracy. His movement aims at the establishment of a national dictatorship through non-parliamentary means. Once achieved, he demands that the reparations demands be reduced to a possible fi gure, but that done, the sum agreed on to be paid to the last Pfennig, as a matter of national honor. To accomplish this the dictator must introduce universal reparations service and enforce it with the whole force of the state. His power during the period of fulfi llment cannot be hampered by any legislature or popular assembly … To ensure that his colleagues in Washington’s Division of Military Intelligence got the point, Smith added his personal evaluation of Hitler: ‘In private conversation he disclosed himself as a forceful and logical speaker, which, when tempered with a fanatical earnestness, makes a very deep impression on a neutral listener.’ 15
<As Baron von Schroeder and Hjalmar Schacht went to leading German industrial and fi nancial fi gures to secure support for the NSDAP after 1931, the first question of nervous and skeptical industrialists was, ‘How does international fi nance, and especially Montagu Norman, regard the prospect of a German government under Hitler?’ Was Norman prepared to come in with fi nancial credit for Germany in such an event? The reality is that at this critical juncture, when Hitler’s NSDAP had little more than 6 million votes in the 1930 elections, the international backing of Montagu Norman, Tiarks and friends in London was decisive.
<While Norman and the Bank of England had adamantly refused to advance a pfennig of credit to Germany at the critical period in 1931 (thus precipitating the banking and unemployment crisis which made desperate alternatives such as Hitler even thinkable to leading circles in Germany), as soon as Hitler had consolidated power, in early 1933, the same Montagu Norman moved with indecent haste to reward the Hitler government with vital Bank of England credit. Norman made a special visit to Berlin in May 1934 to arrange further secret fi nancial stabilization for the new regime. Hitler had responded by making Norman’s dear friend Schacht his minister of economics as well as president of the Reichsbank. The latter post Schacht held until 1939. 16 No.495357
>>495356go glow somewhere else faggot
No.495358
>>495357They are maybe fascist but they are based anti-imperialists.
No.495359
>>495356You have to cross the Bering strait.
No.495360
>>495356>russian imperial flags marching side by side with communist flagsjust
No.495361
>>495360Yeah all the retards who think Russia is some Anti-Imperialist bastion because the KPRF get a load of votes should actually inspect what the 'Communist' movement in Russia consists of (Nationalists who fetishise Stalin).
No.495362
Ukrainian Foreign Minister says current Russian troop numbers insufficient for full invasionRussia has not assembled sufficient forces to launch an imminent full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said Wednesday, as Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov threatened "appropriate response measures" if the West continues its "aggressive line."
Kuleba told reporters in Kyiv that Russian troops could attack Ukraine at any time, as had been the case since 2014 when Russia annexed Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, but currently would not be able to mount a full offensive.
"The number of Russian troops amassed along the border of Ukraine and in occupied territories is large, it poses a threat – a direct threat to Ukraine," said Kuleba.
"However, as we speak this number is insufficient for a full-scale offensive along the entire Ukrainian border. They also lack some important military indicators and systems to conduct such a large full-scale offensive," he added. "We can say 100 times a day invasion is imminent, but this doesn't change the situation on the ground."
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/26/europe/ukraine-russia-latest-news-wednesday-intl/index.html No.495364
>>495362They are dialing it back, so they don't get embarrassed when the
IMMINENT INVASION they have been drumming up doesn't happen.
My bet is that this was just a purger psyop to get Europeans to fall in line behind the Americans against Russia and they even failed at that.
No.495365
>>495364Ukrainians have been reasonable all this time about this American propaganda. But only few people bother to listen to them.
No.495366
>>495363a wall for every redditor
a pit for every burger
No.495367
>>495365That said Russians should still fuck off from Ukraine and its borders.
No.495369
>>495367>That said Russians should still fuck off from Ukraine and its borders.Why tho.
The military forces of Russia are in Russia. Can't they move their military how they want to? It's their country.
No.495370
>>495365I mean even the Washington military think tanks publicly have been saying for a while that russians will need a hundred thousand more troops and rear logistical infrastructure before they do something big. But people like the spectacle and newspapers want to be read
No.495371
>>495361>Yeah all the retards who think Russia is some Anti-Imperialist bastion because the KPRF get a load of votes should actually inspect what the 'Communist' movement in Russia consists of (Nationalists who fetishise Stalin).Communists are nationalists though. They're just not chauvinists toward other nations
Here - Here's two books to help you understand
One on the National question (by Stalin) and one on Soviet patriotism
Soviet patriotism-
https://neodemocracy.blogspot.com/2017/10/patriotism-and-internationalism.html< LOVE of country, of one's native land, we call patriotism. It is one of the deepest emotions found in the masses. Many songs are sung in praise of love for one's country; much has been written about it by poets and scientists, too. But not everybody understands or speaks of the concept of patriotism in the same way.
<When a representative of the working people speaks about it, he identifies the sense of patriotic duty with the struggle for the happiness of the labouring people. The ideologists of the exploiting classes, however, as a rule try to use the love of the masses for their country in their own selfish class interests. The bourgeoisie usually substitute nationalism for patriotism, corrupting the minds of the common people by instilling in them chauvinistic, reactionary ideas.
<Nationalism or chauvinism have nothing in common with the patriotism of the working masses. The bourgeoisie and their ideologists have always harboured nationalistic prejudices, but the minute their pocket is threatened they betray the national interest without the slightest hesitation.so when you call communists in Russia that are "nationalists that love Stalin" what you're really saying is that they're Communists that objectively recognise the material existence of the Russian nation and her people (as defined by Stalin in above book) and love their land and people… but they also love Stalin
Based.
No.495372
>>495371>Communists are nationalists >Nationalism has nothing in common with the patriotism of the working massesYou played yourself
No.495373
>>495372By nationalists op was referring to chauvinism though
It's clear Russian "nationalists" are "patriots" as they do not act chauvinistically
No.495374
>>495373To clarify he was calling kprf chauvinists and nationalists
Cool so show one example of kprf chauvinism
He can't cos hes talking out his arse
No.495375
FRESHLY PICKED NEWS ATM JUST INIt's just a 'panic attack' - Russian media blames US for escalating Ukraine crisishttps://news.yahoo.com/just-panic-attack-russian-media-132757227.html>As Western news outlets warn of a “countdown to war,” Kremlin-controlled Russian television has a different take, accusing the U.S. of “hysteria” in its insistence that President Vladimir Putin is about to invade Ukraine.The US does that. Really. In order to bolster NATO support and keep Azov alive.
Russia issues new warnings as U.S. steps up support for allies in Ukraine standoffhttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/biden-russia-ukraine-threat-putin-sanctions-invasion-nato-rcna13577>Washington stepped up efforts to support its European allies in countering Russian threats in the standoff over Ukraine as Moscow showed no signs of backing down.Ukraine's 30-Year-Old Fighter Jets Hand Russia the Air Advantage in Any Warhttps://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-russia-donbas-putin-air-force-war-30-year-1673076>Ukraine's military has come a long way since Russia seized Crimea in 2014, but even with better-trained troops and equipment, shortcomings in its air capabilities leave Kyiv vulnerable to Moscow-led forces.Focused Russian attack on Ukraine seen as more likely than full-scale invasionhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/26/focused-russian-attack-on-ukraine-seen-as-more-likely-than-full-scale-invasion>Officials and experts say several elements missing for full-scale invasion despite recent troop movements.Holy cope, I can say. Russia is FAR SUPERIOR than Ukraine, and if the PLA is invited, NATO's got no choice but surrender.
Russia's recent invasions of Ukraine and Georgia offer clues to what Putin might be thinking nowhttps://news.yahoo.com/russias-recent-invasions-ukraine-georgia-132745966.html>Given that Russia has amassed 100,000 troops along its nearly 1,200-mile border with Ukraine, a look at two recent invasions by Russia against neighboring territories offers insight to what a possible new invasion would entail if diplomacy is unable to ease the growing tensions.I hope that Putin's thinking of reviving the Union that sadly broke up in 1991! May his efforts be successful.
Ukraine's front line: Where lives turn on distant decisionshttps://apnews.com/article/life-in-ukraine-ef862450d6ffe5efbc653abdc765035a>In trenches dusted with snow and tinged with soot, men search for enough cellphone signal to hear the latest from the distant capitals that will decide their fate.Russia threatens retaliation if Ukraine demands not methttps://apnews.com/72856781c3b92640d03c5e954488ba90>Russia warned Wednesday it would quickly take "retaliatory measures" if the U.S. and its allies reject its security demands and continue their "aggressive" policies, ratcheting up pressure on the West amid concerns that Moscow is planning to invade Ukraine.Amid Ukraine crisis with Russia, NATO needs new strategy nowhttps://www.upi.com/Voices/2022/01/26/Harlan-Ullman-NATO-needs-new-strategy-Ukraine-Russia/3111643141438/>The standoff over Ukraine has underscored a pressing need for NATO. Even though NATO released its new military strategy of defense and deterrence last year, given the events in Ukraine, that strategy appears dated.I bet the new strategy's destined to fail… considering Russia's power and her backing from China, which arguably has one of the world's largest armies.
Ukraine-Russia news: troops 'insufficient' for full invasionhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-russia-news-troops-insufficient-for-full-invasion/ar-AAT9UKu>Russia has not assembled sufficient forces to launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine imminently, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said Wednesday.Cope News Network in it, again.
Ukraine crisis: Wallace tours Europe pushing Russian sanctionshttps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ukraine-crisis-wallace-tours-europe-pushing-russian-sanctions-w9xfxh7lh>Ben Wallace is on a diplomatic blitz around Europe to persuade allies to back severe sanctions against Russia and send lethal weapons to Ukraine.Haha, you throwing a hissy fit, imperialoid?
Diplomacy, prayers: Things to know about the Ukraine crisishttps://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/diplomacy-prayers-things-to-know-about-the-ukraine-crisis/2022/01/26/a10daba2-7eaa-11ec-8cc8-b696564ba796_story.html>Here are things to know Wednesday about the international tensions over Ukraine, a crisis reminiscent of the Cold War.Brit Hume Corrects Tucker Carlson Live On-Air About U.S. Troops to Ukraine Claimshttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/brit-hume-corrects-tucker-carlson-live-on-air-about-us-troops-to-ukraine-claims/ar-AATa2JO>Hume told the Fox News host that he had overstated "how strenuously the U.S. was really trying" to protect Ukraine's border.Germany offers Ukraine helmets, draws Kyiv mayor's irehttps://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-offers-ukraine-helmets-draws-kyiv-mayors-ire-2022-01-26/>Germany will supply 5,000 military helmets to Ukraine, Defence Minister Christine Lambrecht said on Wednesday, amid growing criticism of Berlin for its refusal to supply arms to Kyiv to help it defend against a possible Russian invasion.I bet it's either second- or even third-hand. It won't last long.
No.495376
>>495371>conmmunists are nationalistskill yourself dog fucker
No.495378
>>495371>Communists are nationalists though. They're just not chauvinists toward other nations In the past, yes. Now, idk. But internationalism is
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more based than retarded nationalism.
No.495379
>>495378internationalism is cringe, who the fuck is an internationalist outside of disliking war? The fact of the matter is that liking where you live is natural and it's fine to bants with people who live otherwhere, just don't wage war.
No.495380
>>495379But Russia's doing active measures to combat fascism, especially when it's at their doorstep. And should you know the fact that America supported the apartheid regimes of South Africa and Israel, so I bet that there's going to be a 100% chance of them supporting Azov even so far as to call them freedom fighters that bring democracy and so on.
No.495381
>>495371Advocating for nationalism under particular conditions of civil war and invasion of the soviet union to foster unity and protect the socialist state =/= advocating for nationalism in general.
No.495382
>>495339>state.gov>top five listthis is a government website, not buzzfeed ffs
No.495383
>>495379Youra dumb piece of shit
No.495384
>>495380>But Russia's doing active measures to combat fascismThat's because "Fascism" is just European Imperialism trying to get into Russia. If a pwoerful Japan was still around today and economically independent, competing with european capital, Europe would try to do the same to them (which they did).
No.495385
>>495378>In the past yes, now IdkLmao, which nation governed by a communist party doesn't have their country's interest at heart.
No.495386
>>495385What the fuck is a country's interest in a communist nation?
No.495387
>>495384>fascism is just EuropeEurope may collaborate with Japan if Japan is a fervent anticommunist, even if it's fascist as fuck. The thing is, once you outlaw communism and leftism in general, you're automatically eligible to join the Imperial Sekrit Club.
No.495388
>>495371>Communists are nationalistsWORKERS OF THE WORLD, DIVIDE
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CHINS
No.495389
>>495385If yes, it's for now. If most of the world consist of AES states, said state (especially those with much wealth) will proceed to invade the remaining countries that are either capitalist of rascist. Neutral countries will become aligned automatically (e.g. Switzerland),
No.495391
>>495379>internationalism is cringe, who the fuck is an internationalist outside of disliking war? The fact of the matter is that liking where you live is natural and it's fine to bants with people who live otherwhere, just don't wage war.Inernationalism based on right of self determination of nations is based
Cosmopolitianism (what you're thinking of) is cringe
Communists are opposed to bourgeois cosmopolitanism which is basically what the right calls globalism and is the ideology of goldman sachs
<A disdainful attitude towards national interests is utterly alien to proletarian internationalism. Internationalism has nothing in common with so-called cosmopolitanism. The latter denies love of country, fostering indifference toward one's native land and to the national forms of culture, and propagating "world citizenship".
<Cosmopolitanism, like nationalism, is a reactionary ideology of the imperialist bourgeoisie. Propaganda of cosmopolitanism is now employed by Anglo-American imperialism as an ideological weapon spearheaded against the peoples fighting for national independence and freedom. Cosmopolitanism is a method used by American as well as British imperialism to camouflage their
aggressive, annexationist plans to gain world supremacy.
<At one time the German fascists, dreaming of enslaving the peoples of the world, openly pursued a policy of racialism. As a result of the military defeat of fascist Germany this man hating ideology was dealt a serious blow.
<The present bidders for world supremacy-the Anglo-American imperialists-are following the same policy, although they con ceal their mercenary, imperialist aims by employing the deceitful phrases of "world citizenship", and "world government". To maintain their dominating position in colonial and dependent countries the American and British imperialists, and their junior partners in other capitalist countries as well, are forced not only to resort to open suppression of the oppressed peoples but also to propagate the ideas of cosmopolitanism, which are designed to undermine and corrupt the national consciousness of the peoples. Cosmopolitanism also serves the objects of the struggle of the imperialists against the international labour ·movement. More than anything else, the bourgeoisie fears international solidarity, the unity of the working people, the awakening class conscious ness of the proletariat. Lenin pointed out that capital places the preservation of the alliance of the capitalists of all countries against the working people above the interests of country, the people and everything else.
<The leaders of the right-wing socialists, who are the watch dogs of capitalist law and order, have also come out as zealous champions of cosmopolitanism. Currying favour with the American capitalist monopolies and shamelessly betraying the national interests of their countries, the right-wing socialist leaders scorn the patriotic feelings of the people and belittle the principle of national sovereignty.
<The right-wing "socialists" call upon the peoples to renounce national sovereignty, accusing all those who resist the predatory plans of American imperialism of "economic nationalism".The propagandists of cosmopolitanism not infrequently wear the mask of internationalists. In 1949 the Arbeiterzeitung, organ of the Austrian Social-Democrats, wrote as follows in answer to the question: < Cosmopolitanism - "Literally it means a man who belongs to the universe, to the entire world; that is, a world citizen whose thoughts and feelings are turned towards all the peoples of the earth; in other words, one who aspires to internationalism."
<That is a brazen lie, for internationalists have never been people without kith or kin. Proletarian internationalism is irreconcilably opposed to bourgeois cosmopolitanism, which denies the right of the peoples to independence and preaches the policy of assimilation of nations, their forced "merger" at the hands of the big imperialist powers.https://neodemocracy.blogspot.com/2017/10/patriotism-and-internationalism.html No.495392
>>495386Building up the means of production, guaranteeing a better quality of life to its citizens, etc etc.
Do you see Cuba arming focoist groups now like in the 60s? No, to the contrary they enter as a neutral ground table for the Colombian peace talks.
>>495389The road to archieve your goals is by going at a steady pace
>>495388Communist are nationalist in the sense of the betterment of their country in the face of imperial/external aggression.
Not in the retard "My country is gud bc in 16xx we took one city and now we live reviving it to rub it to the neighboor"
It is a hard mix, but hell,it is not difficult to see that not everyone is full internationalist (since unless something almost magical happens and a region is able to unite or the class war intensifies to a level harder than 1920s) or a fucking ethnonationalist (like those bastards who believe in an irredentist Russia or the integrated Azov battalions) to just put the two on the table.
No.495393
>>495392>Communist are nationalist in the sense of the betterment of their country in the face of imperial/external aggression.Anon, not only is that not what nationalism means, that's not what the objective of communism is either lmao. The goal of communists is the total emancipation of the global working class, which is inherently an internationalist goal. Sure, fighting imperialism and improving your country can play into that goal, and socialist countries have used patriotism to rally the masses, but it's nowhere near the main objective. Countries are just lines on a map that vaguely cover national groups. If national development what you want, you'd be better off a succdem or a maybe a dengist.
No.495394
>>495392>communists are nationalistsyou fuck dogs
No.495395
>>495388gotta save this one
No.495397
>>495396The US has to fill the air, even if it's with utter nonsense, in order to keep the conversation on their chosen topic, ie Russian aggression, instead of something like why the US can't make a deal, go back to NATO97, or whatever.
No.495398
>>495397It works. Someone in the other thread was telling me that we need NATO to protect against Russia.
No.495400
>>495399They were working really hard if that was the case
>>710280 No.495401
>>495396Pulling it out of their ass to keep westerners scared and scream for Russian blood
No.495402
>>495388>WORKERS OF THE WORLD, DIVIDEThis implies you want to live in a global State
Excuse me but no fucking way am I sharing a state with Americans
The outright denial of self determination of the right of nations to the indigenous nations that exist in the Anglo world (usa/can/aus/nz)
Has led to their practical extermination
I wonder how the many natives feel about not having a State to represent their nation and have instead been assimilated (violently) into the American nation which has led to
-their displacement
-the extermination of their languages
-forced assimilation and kidnap into 'real American' families
-mass graves all over Canada etc
But it's cool cos we're cosmopolitans right. The natives are just citizens of the world etc
No.495403
>>495402As someone being a member of one of those oppressed nations under the Great Gringo nation it sucks ass. I want them all out of my land the useless, comprador, carpetbagging, ethnicity-replacing, genocidal freaks. At least in LatAm most of the amerindians that died because of colonization died form uncontrollable disease (something even anglos inflicted on the indians on purpose)
No.495404
>>495403If you don't mind me asking, are you of Native American descent? If so what tribe?
No.495406
Am I a nationalist if I don't want my culture to be erased by Mcdonalds and American pop culture?
No.495407
>>495406What will they even replace it with? Americans genuinely have no culture, that's why such a big emphasis is place on religion in the US. A very typical move by nations that can't develop a properly unique culture. Same thing with Saudi Arabia and Islam, though for them I forgive it more since they at least invented that religion. Americans didn't invent Protestantism.
No.495408
>>495407>Americans didn't invent Protestantism.They invented evangelism tho.
No.495409
>>495407They will replace it with Mcdonalds, Marvel Superhero movies and the American music industry.
> inb4 hurr durr if you're being replaced by Mcdonalds maybe your culture sucked to begin with Well I don't want to live in that world wwhich I guess makes me a nationalsit
No.495410
>>495396Lockheed Martin wants to sell more shit.
No.495411
>>495409Welcome aboard mate
No.495412
Self-determination is a meme. Rosa was right and Lenin was wrong.
No.495413
>>495409>Not being a nationalist == liking McDonalds.You might not be a burger, but your mind sure is.
No countries but the communist country.
The Soviet Union should have annexed all of the territories it conquered and have had a border with western germany.
No.495414
>>495413If it didn't have millions of troops guarding all those rightoid former Nazi states and Poland none of whom wanted to be communist in the first place Soviet Union would probably not have collapsed. They should have just withdrew once the war was over.
No.495415
>>495414>none of whom wanted to be communist in the first placehi lib
No.495417
>>495407>Americans genuinely have no cultureThey do, but it came from Black and native peoples.
No.495418
>>495417Correct, I should've specified in my post that I was referring mainly to Americans that descended from English colonizers. And adding to the Black and Native Americans I would also add to a certain extent even those American descendants of German and Italian immigrants.
No.495419
>>495361Completely wrong, the KPRF is being persecuted by the Vlasovite Russian nationalist bourgeoisie. Russian nationalists love Nicholas Romanov, Kolchak, Denikin, Krasnov, Vlasov, Yeltsin, not Lenin, Stalin and Bolsheviks.
No.495420
>>495417>>495418Mixture of cultures is still culture. Cope.
No.495422
>>495420It means that Anglo Americans needed Natives, Blacks, Italians, and Germans to create an Ameircan culture lmao.
No.495423
>>495422Anglo Americans had their own culture. They slowly mixed it with everything else. Or do you think they came as blank slates from Holland and the UK?
No.495425
>>495423Yeah, their own culture that was Dutch and English, not American.
No.495426
>>495424Daddy Luka take down another plane to make the westoid libs seethe
No.495428
>>495425Yeah, but now this mixture of cultures is American. It's not just for black people, or native-Americans, or Dutch, German, and so on. It's for everyone. And McD's is awesome. I don't care what you say. I will cheat on my meal plan for nuggies. Fight me.
No.495429
Imagine how blue balled the Russian military must feel if nothing happens. They marched out to the Ukrainian border, sat around doing nothing for a few months, and then marched back home.
No.495430
So obviously the Azov batallion is fascist, but is the rest of Ukraine?
No.495431
>>495429Good, better generals with blue balls at home that dead soldiers.
No.495433
>>495429The average grunt is going to feel like he missed out on glory and shit, but his parents will be glad to have their son back home sans casket.
No.495434
>>495430It's just neo-liberal, like most of Europe.
No.495435
>>495434Fascism is liberalism with bells and whsitles.
No.495436
>>495424what can they actually hack ? Automated rail switches ? that won't shutdown military transports because they can send soldiers ahead of trains to manually switch the tracks, it will however fuck with civilian trains, who do not have that luxury.
No.495438
>>495437The hype is dying down, people are noticing NATO's fear mongering.
No.495439
>>495437The problem is that you think invasion means occupying the whole of Ukraine as opposed to key territory and then wringing a negotiated settlement from Ukraine and NATO. So, yes, war is still likely, and it's all going to come down to timing.
No.495440
>>495437they have enough equipment build up, but not enough actual soldier are stationed there
>>495438>The hypethat hasn't as much influence on military decisions as you think.
>>495439>The problem is that you think invasion means occupying the whole of Ukraine the occupation narrative comes from the media oversimplifying everthing , the official press releases from the Russian state has only ever talked about operations within the Ukraine.
No.495441
The military buildup seems to be around Belarus aiming for Kiev. But they most likely would attack and seize more of Donetsk and Lugansk regions.
No.495443
>>495442Russian bourgeois historians (even though they claim to be defending Stalin) invented such a Stalin that: wanted to make alternative elections in USSR; wanted to take power away from CPSU; CPSU was opposed to Stalin; Stalin lied when he was talking about minorities' nationalism, he was actually russifying everyone; Stalin denounced Lenin and did empire-building instead of Lenin's communism, Trotsky implied being the real heir to Lenin.
This schizo shit on your pic is the direct result of you guys (well, not you specifically, but you get what I mean) believing and spreading retarded shit about Stalin. If you believe any of claims above, the logical conclusion which you will have to come eventually if you have any intellectual honesty is to become monarchostalinist like the pic guy.
No.495444
>>495441Don't they have swamps there? Belarus is a highway to Western Ukraine, not Central Ukraine.
No.495445
>>495361>fetishe StalinDo you know that Stalin is like a national hero who fought and kicked nazis asses?
>>495356It is interesting how all the websites from where that picture comes from is the U.S. labelling those "Imperial Movement" as terrorists.
https://2017-2021.state.gov/united-states-designates-russian-imperial-movement-and-leaders-as-global-terrorists/index.htmlhttps://thesoufancenter.org/intelbrief-russian-imperial-movement-labeled-a-specially-designated-global-terrorist-entity/And here it is:
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/americas/1586182394-in-a-first-us-to-designate-russia-based-far-right-movement-as-terror-group-report"It is alleged these far right groups have been training separatists forces in Ukarine"
lmao, that's why, despite NDP supporters marching in Dresden (picrel), nazis marching in Madrid, nazis in Ukraine, these are cataloged as terrorists, while the others aren't
This comment is correct:
>>495357"This is the first time the U.S. declares a white nationalists" a terrorist group and happens to be those living in enemy territories. Soon you will see the U.S. ruling class do their best to fight nazism and supremacism in Russia, lmao.
No.495446
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/01/a-parthogenetic-conflict-there-is-no-russian-invasion-threat-to-ukraine.html#more stop believing western media war whores in their attempts to distract from US humiliation in Afghanistan / spooky economic integration in Asia / real threats to the financial status quo back home.
we are addicted to stylized, selective simulacra of faraway distractions.
No.495447
>>495437This makes me so much less convinced anything will happen. If anything did, it would be one of the shittiest invasions in history.
No.495448
>>495445 (me)
It is also worth to note this picture
>>495356 comes from the 2012 protests in which the "imperialist flag" passed as an opposition to Putin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_protestsThe source that the picture comes from 2012, is seen here:
https://news.walla.co.il/item/3350952
>Nationalist activists hold the flag of the Russian Empire at a demonstration in Moscow, 2012 (Photo: AP)Based Putin against white imperialists fascists terrorists?
No.495451
>>495048>Equipment win wars, not human beings on the groundAmericuck detected.
No.495452
>>495437WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, YOU'RE A PUTIN BOT, THE RUSSIANS ARE COMMING I SWEAR BRO TONIGHT THEY WILL BE IN BERLIN BRO, THEY'RE GOING TO INVADE THE BURGER KING IN ALABAMA, LOOK LOOK THEY ARE COMMING I CAN SEE THEM AAAAAAH, THERE, THERE, THERE A RUSSIAN BEHIND YOU, NO THERE, I FEEL IT WAIT I HEAR A VOICE IN MY HEAD………….
THE VOICES ARE TELLING ME THE RUSSIANS ARE COMMING, PANIC, PANIC!! No.495453
The US formally responded to Russia's request to end NATO's expansion, and the US has responded with…. No.
Now the US will try to bait Russia into using force, and I doubt they will bite.
No.495454
The US stands to gain so much if Russia invades Ukraine. They will be able to sell their more expensive gas to Europe and cuck them security wise even more than they are now.
No.495456
>>495051>>495054>>495455>>495451This anon is right:
>>495048 that's a nazi meme created to justify the victory of the USSR over nazism "le mud winter freezing war" like if Germany is a tropical country of some sort, exactly the same with the U.S.
No.495457
>>495455The US was not engaged in combat operations at that time. Live in your fantasy world if you want, but the ANA, even as corrupt as it was did well as long as they kept supplies going. The US pulled those assets out and basically sabotaged those people. I don't know if you consider women burning their degrees a victory for the proletariat.
No.495458
>>495457The real fantasy world was the idea that the US would just occupy Afghanistan forever
No.495459
>>495456the Nazis did try to blame the weather, but that doesn't mean the Russian winters don't live up to their reputation.
The context was that the US proposed that they could invade Russia via a route through the article circle, where temperatures go as low as -67°C or -120°F . The Russian military has technology that still works in these conditions, but the US does not.
No.495460
>>495458No. I don't think that was the goal. However, the military was not the tool for that job past a certain point. The Northern Alliance should have been the bedrock for any new government, as well as not letting Afghanistan be completely reliant on US logistics and aircraft. Afghanistan wasn't built up the way it should have been if it was to last. A great tragedy, but we will see. The war in Afghanistan hasn't ended for the people of Afghanistan.
No.495462
>>495460That's a fantasy, but you do realize that the US has arctic warfare capabilities and has had them ever since they decided the USSR was the big bad, right?
No.495463
Thread is full of Americucks COPING. Your seethe is delicious and I will personally lick your salty cheeks once you start crying.
No.495464
>>495461Proof?
That would be an awesome rebunk to modern-day nazis about their "supremacy". Either way, I bet all you want, that's just a late response to his war heading towards the german demise. I would gladly see how he talked about his weaponry when invaded France, Poland, the Balkans, etc.
No.495465
>>495457>The US was not engaged in combat operations at that timeWho do you think was supplying the majority of the firepower against the Taliban? Hint: the ANA lost almost every fight where it didn't have a certain country's airpower on call.
No.495466
>>495464No, it was an early response, when the Germans started to encounter T-34s and KV-1s and the Panzer IV was the best tank in the German arsenal. If you search for "Hitler talking to Mannerheim" you can probably find the audio clips.
No.495468
>>495464It is a hidden recording of a conversation he had with the Finnish leader Mannerheim inside a train.
An audio tech kept the microphones rolling after Hitler made an official visit and Hitler didn't notice.
Here is a subtitled version:
https://youtu.be/ClR9tcpKZecAn excerpt:
Hitler: “It is evident…evident. They have the most monstrous armament that is humanly conceivable (‘menschendenkbar’)…so…if anybody had told me that one state…(footsteps)…if anybody had told me that one state can line up with 35.000 tanks (Hitler uses the word ‘tank’), I had said ‘you have gone mad’…
Unidentified: “Thirty-five…”
Hitler: “35.000 Panzer (now he uses the word ‘Panzer’)…we have more than, we have at the time more than 34 Pan…thousand Panzer destroyed. If somebody had told me this to…had said: you…if one general of mine had declared, that a state here had 35.000 tanks, I had said, Mister (‘Mein Herr’), you are seeing everything double… or tenfold, this is crazy, you are seeing ghosts…I had not thought this possible…If somebody had told me that…I have told this just before, we have found industrial plants…one of this in (unintelligible: Kalanuskaja?) for example, that was under construction two years ago…and we had no idea…and today there is a tank production facility that…that…in the first shift a bit over 30.000 and in full development should have employed more than 60.000 workers…one single tank production facility…we have occupied it…a gargantuan facility…lots of workers who nevertheless live like animals and such…”
[…]
"Our whole armament was…it is a ‘Good Weather’ Armament (‘Schönwetterbewaffnung’), it is very capable, it is good, but it is unfortunately a Good Weather Armament. Indeed, we have seen it recently here in this war, naturally all of our weapons are styled (‘zugeschnitten’) for the west. And we all had the conviction…that was until now (mumbling)…it was just our opinion, since the oldest times…one cannot wage war in wintertime. And we have…the German tanks…the German tanks have not been put to the test to perhaps prepare them for winter-war, but test-runs were made to prove that one cannot wage war in winter. It has been a different starting point…"
No.495469
>>495443>Trotsky implied being the real heir to Lenin.Ignoring the fact the "Lenin's testament" was Trotskyite lies, that 6 different testaments sprung up by the trots after Lenin's death, that even bourgeois historians acknowledge the "testament is a Trotskyite fake" (below Stephen Kotkin video who is an American bourgeois historian who shows how it was faked and when it was supposedly written Lenin had no speech)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sXutg47BwEU&Ignoring also that communist parties aren't retards that "inherit" leadership roles but in fact… Leadership gets put to a vote (which was done)
Is this your "inheritor" or Leninism?
>Two policies may now be applied: to destroy ideologically and organically the fractional walls which still exist, and thus destroy the very foundations of Leninism, which is incompatible with the organisation of workers into a political party, but which can perfectly grow on the manure of splits; or, on the contrary, to conduct a fractional selection of anti- Leninists (Mensheviks or liquidators) by a complete liquidation of the divergences on tactics. -Trotsky
https://revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/trotltrs.htm No.495470
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2022/01/26/russia-and-west-piercing-fog-of-hysteria/new Pepe Escobar just dropped
>>495460You're right, the claimed goal was actually that the US would be able to leave one day, an even bigger fantasy. But the real goals were always war profiteering and some vague geopolitical influence in the region.
No.495471
>>495059Bro are you like on Lockheed martins pay role?
>>495465It would be interesting to see how the U.S airforce fares against another modern military. The Airforce is the U.S best asset. Only because of their cold war era arsenal. Before the military became absurdly corrupt they actual bothered to make jets that could fly.
No.495472
>>495457>The US was not engaged in combat operations at that time. Live in your fantasy world if you want, but the ANA, even as corrupt as it was did well as long as they kept supplies going. The US pulled those assets out and basically sabotaged those people. I don't know if you consider women burning their degrees a victory for the proletariat.The Quisling government the US setup collapsed within a few weeks and I'm the one in a fantasy world
The Afghan army was full of reprobates and drug addicts turning up for a regular paycheque. It says a lot about the Quisling government that was setup that they abandoned their posts immediately or defected to the Taliban or were pure ghost soldiers from the get go to rinse US of more money
>. The US pulled those assets out and basically sabotaged those people. I don't know if you consider women burning their degrees a victory for the proletariat."Muh fag women's rights, muh fag faggots are being thrown off roofs"
US ended women's rights in Afghanistan in the 80s when they popularised fundamental Islam and sent children's books that taught jihad to an entire generation
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2002/03/23/from-us-the-abcs-of-jihad/d079075a-3ed3-4030-9a96-0d48f6355e54/And yes, US getting lol'd out of Afghanistan by the Taliban was a victory of the proletariat. As Malcolm X said you can't begin to heal until the knife was taken out
The dumb rapists that make up the US army were the knife
No.495473
>>495472>US getting lol'd out of Afghanistan by the Taliban was a victory of the proletariatDon't be silly, the Taliban aren't proletarians, they're the product of bourgeois counterrevolution and feudal dregs.
No.495474
>>495473>Don't be silly, the Taliban aren't proletariansTrue but the defeat of US imperialism in Afghanistan will strengthen the proletarian movement in the West.
No.495475
>>495474LOL the Taliban are already making economic deals and will keep the resources flowing.
No.495476
>>495473We had this struggle session a few months ago but the US is the greater evil and simply prolonged the inevitable instability by extending their occupation. Afghans went from two knives in their back to one
No.495477
>>495473>Don't be silly, the Taliban aren't proletariansHowever it may offend your western sensibilities the Taliban became the authentic representation of the Afghan nation
Proof? They took the whole country in a few weeks and chased the yanquis out of Afghanistan
No.495478
>>495356There are a lot of groups on vk.com. They are always taking donations for supplies and you can send them money to build trust and establish communication. Good luck comrade.
No.495480
>>495477lol right, there was no real fighting whatsoever.
The US basically handed tanks, humvees and helicopters over to them like ISIS in 2014.
No.495481
>>495477>the authentic representation of a nation is its bourgeoisie and landownersok lib
No.495482
>>495191When was the last time you talked to a Russian or Ukrainian worker? Their only concern in life is buhlo. Even if they had guns they couldn't aim at a brick wall let alone the rich.
No.495483
>>495482А почему заботятся об одном бухле? Об этом не думаешь?
No.495484
>>495481What afghan “proletarians?” Apart from the soviet trained and developed ones, of course, much of Afghanistan still is governed by people like the talibs. At any rate, between them and NATO, people chose them.
No.495485
>>495479We did it the West prevailed! Russia was trying to invade Ukraine but after the bold unyielding stance of President Biden commanding the mighty American millitary the weak Russians cave in and surrendered to Biden.
Let's go Biden for president 2024, the president who prevented a world war
No.495486
>>495485yeah, prepare yourself for all of those obnoxious libs to pat themselves and NATO on the back for STOPING LE EBIL PUTEEEEEN!!!
No.495488
>>495479It's a major disadvantage that neither Russia nor China can raise a global REEEEEEE like the West can. They REEEEEE'd and REEEEEE'd at Russia and now they get to declare that they won
No.495489
>>495479NATO confirmed losers
No.495490
RUSSIA MAY STILL INVADE AT ANY POINT IN TIME KEEP ON REEEEEEEEING
No.495491
>>495485I wonder if this meaty-titted greasebeast ever read a single page of anything, let alone Margz
No.495492
>>495488>It's a major disadvantage that neither Russia nor China can raise a global REEEEEEE like the West can.Why ?
>They REEEEEE'd and REEEEEE'd at Russia and now they get to declare that they wonRussia reached their strategic objective, why would they care about the REEING ?
No.495493
>>495492Did Russia have an objective? They were holding a military exercise with Belarus in response to NATO moving in troops to Poland and the Baltics. NATO responded with a massive REEEEEEE WE NEED MOAR TROOPS AND SANCTIONS NOW
No.495494
>>495490It will happen during the Olympics, screencap this
No.495495
>>495494That's what the State Department is now saying
No.495496
>>495495Are they actually? Can you drop a link?
No.495497
>>495469English is not my first, so I'm sorry if you've misread my post. Trotsky being the heir to Lenin is the position I opposed - calling this position schizo. Stalin being a bourgeois nationalists' icon is the direct result of schizoids claiming that Trots are the real Leninists
No.495499
>>495496Nvm sorry I read it wrong the Statement by Wendy Sherman of the State Department was that Putin will likely NOT invade before or during the Olympic games.
No.495500
NATO BRO'S WHAT IF UKRAINE ATTACKS THE PRO RUSSIAN TERRORISTS DURING THE OLYMPIC GAMES WOULD RUSSIA NEED TO INVADE THEN?!
No.495501
>>495499Tbh the Olympics strategy might not be repeated. I think the Russians know that NATO and the US have considered that option, so it will be too predictable to pull the same stunt they did during the Russo-Georgian war. What I find hilarious though is that it's the second year now in a row that we've had a lot of fear mongering and soyfacing during January in the West over an incoming invasion by Russia, I wonder if we'll see a repeat in 2023.
No.495502
>>495464Germans were horrified of Soviet tanks to the points of forcing AA regiments to shoot at ground level, lol, and their tank antitank response was to strap an AA gun onto tank chassis. Keep in mind that AA teams had like 11 people in them, that thing had to be transported who knows how long wherever it was needed, and even then German artillery had inferior distance and caliber to Soviet artillery and tanks. USSR had the meanest and heaviest tanks and meanest and longest range artillery, as well as swarms of mortar for sneak artillery attacks and infantry support - on top of having superior long range artillery.
Germans have lost 4 million troops dead and injured in 4 months of war, remember? They were conscripting all the 18 yos in 1943 already, and by 1942 they've emptied all the prisons to send them onto the fronts as stormtroopers. Germany had a forced labourer population of 15 million people - that's how many German men they had to replace in the economy.
No.495503
>>495501And in 2020 there was that almost war with Iran. All this dick waving and the U.S is bound to accidently get it caught.
No.495504
>>495452Wait, since when Sweden has raised the seas and occupied Copenhagen? Did I miss something?
No.495505
>>495469>below Stephen Kotkin video who is an American bourgeois historian who shows how it was faked and when it was supposedly written Lenin had no speechDo you not realize that Kotkin has an agenda as well? The reason he's so focused on painting Stalinism as the faithful continuation of Leninism is because most people don't see Stalin's legacy as positive. Regarding Lenin's "testament", its authenticity depends on Krupskaya's honor. I personally lean towards it being real, but determining chosen Lenin's "heir" based on his personal allegiances isn't important. Otherwise there would be a very good case to say that Bernstein was Engels' rightful "heir".
No.495506
IS IT OVER?! DID LIBERALISM WIN AGAIN??
No.495507
>>495498<I second this I want to see these tyrants raped to death like Qaddafi and hope Putin is the first one. I would add Maduro and some post-soviet leaders like Tokayev or that dude in Turkmenistan to this list.Lol, this guy is such a fucking loser
https://old.reddit.com/user/BruddaMSK No.495508
>>495102>being racist against gypsiesKill yourself.
>outdated 60s military equipmentThey didn't have 60s military equipment even when you were shitting your pants in the fulda gap, gramps. If you attack Russia it won't be a second or third Iraq invasion, you'll get fucked in the ass and then you'll get nuked.
No.495509
>>495507He’s either a Burgerbot or a gusano
No.495512
>>495509self-hating Russian it seems
No.495514
>>495512average liberashka
No.495515
>>495483потому что народ в скот превратили. че ты хочешь от меня
No.495516
>>495513So much cuckoldry on Reddit.
No.495517
>>495468there is a wonderful quote of hitler where he says something like "there are railways here that do not even exist on maps!" about the soviet war effort lmao
No.495518
>>495517Kek, the Soviet industry pulled off such an incredible and awe inspiring mobilization during the war it's unreal. Those stories about tanks being finished without being painted coming out fighting from their factories immediately after being assembled, with the Germans already very close. The Great Patriotic War was mental.
No.495519
>>495479I saw minister of interior said "these are pure western fabrications" about all the fearmongering.
No.495520
>>495514Сталин их не достаточно убил
No.495524
>>495498Killing Putin would be absolutely based. He's a staunch anti-communist and no matter how much you suck his dick he wont turn into Stalin.
No.495525
Lavrov: Russia + Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua will cooperate in ALL areas, "including the military onehttps://twitter.com/RealPepeEscobar/status/1486279534693470208?cxt=HHwWgMCy5ZbXqaApAAAASource is Pepe Escobar which usually is 70% real deal 30% sensationalism, but I'm working to find if this is confirmed by other sources.
No.495527
>>495525Watch as all the NATO shill rhetoric of "countries should be free to form their own alliances with whoever they want" dissappears overnight.
No.495528
>>495524Putin is more of a communist than anyone on this board
No.495529
>>495524>killing the leader of a foreign sovereign country would be absolutely based and wholesome!!1!This is why no one likes americans
No.495530
>>495525I thought another anon had said that the source was a casual joke by some russian politician. I dont think its to be taken seriously.
No.495531
>>495530It's possible, as i said there's a chance this is just sensationalism
No.495532
>>495517>>495518Plus Halder being stunned at the size of the Red Army in 1941.
No.495533
>>495529no that's not the reason, liberal
No.495535
>>495524Killing every American would be absolutely based. They are staunch anti-communists and no matter how much you suck their dicks they wont develop revolutionary potential.
No.495536
>>495524Killing Putin would be fun and edgy but would do nothing for Russians, he would be replaced immediately by someone like him. Isn't this what Lenin criticized the Narodniks for
No.495538
>>495536you're right, but it would at least be entertaining
No.495539
>>495524It depends who kills him you dense retard. Obviously if there's a communist revolution in Russia the communists should execute him if they so desire, however that redditfag was very clearly implying that the US should assasinate him. That won't bring socialism any closer to Russia.
No.495540
>>495536There's no one like him. Putin is a unique figure and without him the internal government would fall apart. Killing him would be worse than nothing for the average Russian because of the destabilization and there is no real marxist party to take advantage of the power vacuum either. The communist party is liberal.
>>495537Most foreign leaders should be assassinated. You seem to be confused on what makes a liberal a liberal.
No.495541
>>495540What does it mean to be foreign? Are you a burgershit?
No.495542
>>495541>ur a burger<no ur a liberalholy fuck, shut up both of you
No.495543
>>495542What amazes me most is how the posters itt are so comically autistic that they can't tell the difference between assasinating a foreign politician for geopolitical motives and a political leader of a capitalist country being executed by communist revolutionaries. Wouldn't expect anything less from /leftypol/.
No.495544
>>711623
You said “foreign” fam
No.495545
>>711623
Are you including Sankara and Castro in that list?
No.495547
>>495498Notice this won't get banned for "advocating violence" but memeing about guillotines will.
No.495548
>>711632
CIA glow clean up required here.
No.495549
>>495548>capitalist nations assassinate leaders of communist revolutions<we're not allowed to do that in return that would be badok liberal
No.495550
>>495528What I find funny is ShitLibs that (due to their liberalism) believe in great man theory and think if they killed Putin Russia would somehow orient toward being friendly to US and roll back over
There are people that could reasonably take power in a power struggle that have lamented Putin's capitulations to the west
No.495551
>>495549It would be based if Cuban or North Korean glowies assasinated a president of a capitalist country, however they should go for someone that is actively hurting them. I doubt either Cuba or the DPRK would prioritize Putin over literally any other anglo+EU and/or NATO country.
No.495552
>>495550Putin is literally a former agent of the USSR. He has more experience and understanding of leadership and communist politics than anyone on this board. Also most people here never set foot in a communist nation, or a former communist nation, so they have no idea of the state of the class consciousness there.
No.495553
>>495551finally someone with sense and not just liberal moralizing
No.495554
>>495518>>495468>>495517>there is a wonderful quote of hitler where he says something like "there are railways here that do not even exist on maps!" about the soviet war effort lmaoIt gets better, brothers:
>If Stalin had been given another ten or fifteen years, Russia would have become the mightiest State in the world, and two or three centuries would have been required to bring about a change. It is a unique phenomenon! He has raised the standard of living—of that there is no doubt; no one in Russia goes hungry any more. They have built factories where a couple of years ago only unknown villages existed—and factories, mark you, as big as the Hermann Goring Works. They have built railways that are not yet even on our maps. In Germany we start quarrelling about fares before we start building the line! I have read a book on Stalin; I must admit, he is a tremendous personality, an ascetic who took the whole of that gigantic country firmly in his iron grasp. And another one:
>The more we see of conditions in Russia, the more thankful we must be that we struck in time. In another ten years there would have sprung up in Russia a mass of industrial centres, inaccessible to attack, which would have produced armaments on an inexhaustible scale, while the rest of Europe would have degenerated into a defenceless plaything of Soviet policy. It is very stupid to sneer at the Stakhanov system. The arms and equipment of the Russian armies are the best proof of its efficiency in the handling of industrial man-power. Stalin, too, must command our unconditional respect. In his own way he is a hell of a fellow!I can think of two more, but can't source them. In the first, Hitler claimed that Russia is not a country, but a gigantic armored factory. In the second, he joked that once Germany conquered Russia, he'd put Stalin in charge of its administration because he was clearly the most qualified for the job. Hitler's remarks on Stalin/the Soviet Union were more often disparaging however. Sometimes in direct contradiction to the stuff he praised them for lmao
No.495555
>>495554Hard to believe Hitler would praise the USSR and Stalin like this. What socialism does to a country just hits different I guess, even to such a fervent anti-communist like Hitler. Gotta give credit where it's due.
No.495556
Not sure if true but im gonna leave it here anyways:
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1486448601429598211#mhttp://nitter7bryz3jv7e3uekphigvmoyoem4al3fynerxkj22dmoxoq553qd.onion/Conflicts/status/1486448601429598211#m>UKRAINE: The OSCE reported a significant increase of ceasefire violations yesterday in Donetsk. With 403 violations reported, it makes it the heaviest fighting of 2022 so farThis is how NATO would provoke Russian aggression
No.495557
>>495414>none of whom wanted to be communist t. /pol/
No.495558
UK: enact the preemptive sanctions
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60149444UK are somehow more American than the Americans
No.495559
>>495558They are working so hard to suck up the US, that it is almost sad. Also this is probably also motivated by some sort of longing to be once a relevant power on the world stage.
No.495560
So it’s all just a scam cooked up by weapons manufacturers?
No.495561
>>495559Definitely, they are always desperate to act tough but are completely hollow
>>495560On the Western side I would also say there are plenty of political careers at stake in The Blob
No.495562
Geopolitically Great Britain is just Poland with a bigger budget.
No.495563
>>495562Poland is in the EU so they probably have more international clout, and they can do anything in the EU because they have the superpower of friendship with hungary
No.495565
What kind of international clout can Great Britain wield nowadays? How do they get back in the Great power game? France has it's North African colonies and the only nukes in the EU. Germany has it's economy and the EU clout. They aren't relevant in Asia Africa the Middle East or Latin America except for the Falklands. Trying to mog Russia is really their only outlet.
No.495566
>>711930
Funding overseas fascists against socialists has always been the most useful tool for liberals to retain global capitalist hegemony. This is why they corporate news networks and the State department overlook this time and time again. Liberals love tolerating fascists as long as they are not in their own country.
No.495567
>>495566Meant to reply to:
>>495564 No.495568
>>495564This ancient story is 'news' in burgerstan. This is something that would get you called an antivaxxer flat earther just last year
No.495569
Republican Rift on Ukraine Could Undercut U.S. Appeals to Allieshttps://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/republicans-ukraine.html>Republicunts are attacking President Biden for what they call a weak response to Russian aggression, but their far-right flank is questioning U.S. involvement, and even its alliance with Kiev.Alexander Vindman: US can stop the horror of a Putin war in Ukraine. But time is running out.https://news.yahoo.com/u-still-stop-horror-putins-185539303.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr>Vladimir Putin is an aggressive thinker, but he is not irrational. He will take all he can as long as the cost is bearable. We must try to deter him.U.S. offers Russia 'serious diplomatic path forward' but rejects NATO ban on Ukrainehttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/biden-russia-ukraine-threat-putin-sanctions-invasion-nato-rcna13577>Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Wednesday that the U.S. has formally responded to Russia's security demands in a letter he described as a "serious diplomatic path forward" to de-escalate the threats against Ukraine.Encircling Ukraine, Russia showcases its new military prowesshttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/encircling-ukraine-russia-showcases-its-new-military-prowess/ar-AATb8na>Kyiv could soon confront the full power of a Russian military that has changed markedly since the last time Moscow invaded Ukraine.The World Awaits Putin's Word on Ukraine, but on That, He Is Silenthttps://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/world/europe/putin-ukraine.html>The Russian president appears on camera almost daily, talking about things like cryptocurrency, green energy and the World's Fair. But not about Ukraine.U.S. send Moscow diplomatic path for averting war in Ukrainehttps://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2022/01/26/Ukraine-Russia-US-State-Department-diplomacy-Antony-Blinken/1671643218025/>The United States delivered a paper to Moscow on Wednesday, laying out a diplomatic path to avert war amid Russia's buildup of military troops on Ukraine's border, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said.On day of prayer for Ukraine, pope recalls country's historical sufferinghttps://www.reuters.com/world/europe/day-prayer-ukraine-pope-recalls-countrys-historical-suffering-2022-01-26/>Pope Francis on Wednesday led a day of prayer for peace in Ukraine, calling for dialogue to prevail over partisan interests to resolve the West's standoff with Russia.Russia Deploys Warships to Black Sea in Dangerous Escalation Near Ukrainehttps://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-01-26/russia-deploys-warships-to-black-sea-in-dangerous-escalation-near-ukraine>The deployment, which Moscow has described as routine exercises, risks escalating a flashpoint in the strategic sea lane that Russia has previously used to pressure Kyiv.Canada extends, expands military training mission in Ukrainehttps://www.washingtonpost.com/world/canada-extends-expands-military-training-mission-in-ukraine/2022/01/26/b723f23a-7ef4-11ec-8cc8-b696564ba796_story.html>Canada is extending its mission to train Ukrainian soldiers by three years and plans to enlarge the operation, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Wednesday. Trudeau said he has authorized the Canadian Armed Forces to deploy 60 more personnel to join 200 troops already on the ground. No.495570
>>495569>but their far-right flank is questioning U.S. involvement, and even its alliance with Kiev.Is Trump anti-imperialist?
No.495571
>>711930
>Funding fascists overseas against socialists has always been the most useful tool for liberals to retain global capitalist hegemony. This is why they corporate news networks and the State department overlook this time and time again. Liberals love tolerating fascists as long as they are not in their own country.
This is why liberals reject communism. Liberals are all rightoids, just in human face.
No.495572
>>495571You have to understand that liberalism includes MAGA people and other conservatives.
No.495573
>>495571Democrats have actually been more hawkish on this than Republicans. They rushed an Ukraine bill through the House that will actually sanction (!) German politicians. This is a level of disruption between the US and Europe that never happened before, after 1945.
No.495574
>>495554I read somewhere that these quotes were in big part due to the horrible intelligence the germans had on the USSR. For example, many of those maps mentioned in the quotes were from WW1 (!)
No.495575
>>495572So? What's the point when every single fucking "progressive" news outlet including "alternative" media like The Intercept, TYT, etc. pushes for escalation while I have to tune into Tucker fucking Carlson to get a different narrative?
No.495576
>>495573Imo Democrats Represent Wall Street finance capital, the dollar printer and Silicon Valley which push for global empire more aggressively than the Republicans which represent the industrial sector and oil and gas which is more protectionist.
No.495578
>>495576Yeah, I think overall that's a correct analysis, but I would say that considering how huge those parties are there are probably intersecting factions. The USA have actually six parties, I would say, in the Dems you have
>the Blue Dogs>the moderates/neoliberals>the progressivesIn the Reps:
>Neocons>Right-wing populists>evangelical Christian fascists No.495579
>>495577With that many violations I wonder if we'll see more dead this year than last. According to Wikipedia 146 people were killed in the war last year, we would probably know pretty soon, maybe tomorrow or shortly after, how many people were killed, though it'll likely be underreported by both sides.
No.495581
>>495575You seem to tolerate neo-nazis fighting on Russian side pretty well.
No.495582
>>495581What Russian neo-nazis?
No.495584
>>495118DNR = "Donetsk People's Republic"
LNR = "Luhansk People's Republic"
I doubt fascists would name themsevles "People's Republic"
I suspect this is just some dumb liberal whining about "muh red-brown" because a couple of their leaders are annoyed with western LGBTQ+ politics.
No.495585
>>495583Not sure that "conservative" and "xenophobic" really translate into "waving Nazi flag, wearing SS insignia" like the Azov militia
No.495586
So NATO's strategy is to prevent Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Russian strategy is to have the freedom to invade Ukraine if it is about to join NATO
Invasion and war is LE BAD under any circumstance
So All Russia has to do is not invade Ukraine.
No.495587
>>495581Does the Russian army have a nazi division?
No.495588
>>495586NATO's strategy is to provoke Russia into invading. If they actually cared about poor lil' Ukraine they could offer an agreement with Russia to not expand NATO to Ukraine as Russia has wanted since before the USSR fell, and was informally promised at the time. If Le Putler invaded anyways then they could still defend Ukraine as the security treaty would have been broken.
No.495589
>>495565France is suffering coups in their West African neocolonial holdings.
All of the junta arising from them are showing strong pro Russian leanings and one of them (Mali) already has depolyed Wagner soldiers.
Between this Chinese and Us/Canadian influence France's time of grandeur in the area could relatively soon come to an end.
No.495590
>>495588How does Russia get out of this problem without invading Ukraine? It seems NATO and America will push the situation to the point where Ukraine is either in NATO or given non NATO alliance like South Korea and they will keep sending them weapons making the osts of invasion higher every year. It seems Russia like North Korea will have to learn to cope with having a militarized American outpost on it's border or go full retard and invade and accomplish what exactly?
No.495592
>How does Russia get out of this problem without invading Ukraine?
The only way I see it is by ending the war in Donbass and mantaining the existance of the DPR and LPR. Not sure if Ukraine or NATO would accept that if negotiations are to end the war are to ever come, but that's really the only way I see around it. Technically Russia wouldn't even need to recognize them as countries since their mere existance already acts as a buffer but if this outcome does come it will probably recognize them. Maybe Russia would even tolerate Ukraine joining NATO if they can come to an agreement around letting the breakaway republics stay sovereign.
No.495594
>>495591>communist flags in the backgroundAbsolute self-own. I don't really care whether some no-no people are involved with the two republics
No.495595
>>495592Well the Minsk agreement stipulates that they are to be eventually re-integrated into Ukraine under special status which Ukraine stubbornly refuses to implement or move towards and instead wants to take them back militarily but them remaining independent is not in the cards according to the agreement.
No.495596
>>495590Firstly, Ukraine has publicly stated that Russia has only put enough troops on the border to defend it, not to launch an invasion. Secondly, I think they are seeing what they can get away with, and they have already gathered some small 'concessions,' one being Biden's comment that they won't defend Ukraine from any "minor incursions," another being the statements from Germany that the US can't kick Russia off of the US dollar because of all the gas trading they do with Germany, and more generally Germany prefers no sanctions on Russia. I think France has said something to that effect too. Russia won't come away with offical assurance that Ukraine won't join NATO, but neither is the US going out of its way to defend it; they won't do anything but threaten sanctions. I would guess that both sides now know that Ukraine will forever remain a bargaining chip.
No.495597
>>495595>re-integrated into Ukraine under special statusSomething like Bosnia with Republika Srpska?
No.495599
>>495598Zionists🤝Nazis
One Struggle No.495600
>>495597it mentions gradual integration into Ukraine under temporary self governance.
No.495602
>>495594>I don't really care whether some no-no people are involved with the two republicsBased
Like there are some no-no people on the "anarchist" side, that being it's 90% no-no people.
No.495603
>>495591Unity against liberalism.
Same feel in the anti-Yeltsinite uprising of '93.
No.495604
>>495591Mm-hm, I smell some Chinese Civil War vibes?
No.495605
>>495603Ok I admit its based nazism if its anti-Yeltsin.
No.495606
>>495605Is that flag even used by nazis? It's a monarchist banner.
No.495607
>>712270
It's a monarchist flag, they're not the same thing, retard. Not every right-wing ideology is nazi.
No.495608
>>495580Good thread, everybody. See you in… three months, when the next flare up occurs.
No.495609
I wonder if Based News Anon can keep us updated by posting Ukraine-related news articles here?
No.495612
> A Ukrainian national security official reiterated earlier in the day that the country needed Canada to urgently send it “defensive weapons.”
> Trudeau said Canada is deploying 60 additional Canadian Forces members now to join the roughly 200 others already on the ground as part of Canada’s military training mission, and that he is authorizing the potential for another 200 to be deployed in the future.
> “Things like body armour, optics and scopes, elements like that,” Trudeau said when asked to explain what non-lethal aid Canada plans to provide and why the decision was made not to send weapons.
> He was asked by multiple journalists to provide a clear answer as to why the government has decided not to send weapons to Ukraine. Trudeau repeatedly did not directly answer the questions
No.495613
>>495612This is some sort of training exercise for Canadian military. They are not worried about Russian invasion.
No.495614
>>495610I really recommend that everyone read this piece, it has a really good account of the context.
>In the New York Times, veteran national security correspondent David E. Sanger allows that it is "possible" that Putin's "bottom line in this conflict is straightforward": obtain a pledge to "stop Ukraine from joining NATO" as well as one that the US and NATO "will never place offensive weapons that threaten Russia’s security in Ukrainian territory."
>On these issues, "there is trading space," Sanger concedes. Given that "Ukraine is so corrupt, and its grasp of democracy is so tenuous… no one expects it to be accepted for NATO membership in the next decade or two." Accordingly, Russia could be offered "some kind of assurance that, for a decade, or maybe a quarter-century, NATO membership for Kyiv was off the table."
>In Sanger's view, the real and "complex" issue is not Ukraine's NATO status, but "how the United States and NATO operate" there – specifically, by flooding the country with weapons. Since 2014, Sanger writes, the US and NATO allies have provided "Ukraine with what the West calls defensive arms, including the capability to take out Russian tanks and aircraft", a "flow that has sped up in recent weeks." Russia – for reasons apparently foreign to Sanger – believes that these "weapons are more offensive than defensive" and "that Washington’s real goal is to put nuclear weapons in Ukraine." An agreement to address these concerns, an unidentified US official concedes, would be "'the easiest part of this,' as long as Russia is willing to pull back its intermediate-range weapons as well."
>Unmentioned by Sanger is that Russia has repeatedly signaled such a willingness, including just last month: Russia's proposed draft treaty with NATO – issued with the stated aim of resolving the Ukraine standoff – proposes that all sides "not deploy land-based intermediate- and short-range missiles" in any area that allows them "to reach the territory of the other Parties." Also unmentioned is that such deployments were previously banned under the INF Treaty, the Cold War-era pact that the Trump administration abandoned in August 2019, to the resounding silence of Democratic lawmakers and allied media outlets more invested in pretending that Trump was a Russian puppet than in addressing his actual Russia policies.
>In a bid to preserve some of the INF Treaty's safeguards, Putin immediately offered a moratorium on the deployment of intermediate-range missiles in Europe – a proposal swiftly rejected by both Trump and NATO. (Trump's response was again duly ignored by Russiagate-crazed media outlets and politicians, for the obvious narrative inconvenience.)
>Much like its refusal so far to re-enter the Iran nuclear deal – another critical security pact torn up by Trump – the Biden administration has thus placed itself in a dangerous geopolitical standoff rather than embrace diplomacy around proposals that US officials either deem as reality anyway (Ukraine not joining NATO) or that they were once party to (the Trump-sabotaged INF treaty). No.495615
So it’s all a nothingburger?
No.495616
>>495615There are diplomatic/international relations things happening, but no military intervention is going to happen. I'm 99.99% certain. t. guy on the internet
No.495619
>>495615>So it’s all a nothingburger?No. We'll just sit back and relax.
Press the bell button so that you'll know that Russia has attacked No.495620
>>495617The Azov battalion will send it's thanks.
No.495621
>>495617You bait, but this is exactly how they’ll spin it
No.495622
ARCHIVE
No.495624
CHINA
No.495625
>>495554what are those quote from?
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