Let's mantain the civil discussion we were having in the last thread.
Last thread got full.
Fizzle or Sizzle - you decide.
TO WATCH FOR NEWS:
https://liveuamap.com/Live updates from Texan commie boomer in Donbass:
https://www.youtube.com/c/RussellBentleyTexacFor Russiabros, analysis from Boris Rozhin:
https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/ (has a telegram, lots of cool stuff there too)
Reposting
>>761104Found some somewhat corroborating "sources" on Mariupol breakthrough
>Feroces combates entre las milicias de la RPD y el ejército Ucraniano cerca de Mariupol. Video de posiciones ucranianas"https://nitter.net/DOGDEGA/status/1495585700422598656#mThis one apparently from DPR channel
>Massive bombardment by Ukraine, internet keeps cutting out, he talked to some of the people he knows who are stationed near Mariupol front, they say that Ukraine has made a breakthrough in the frontline.https://nitter.net/Archb98/status/1495590607384989699#mUS President Joe Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed in principle to a summit over Ukraine, the office of French President Emmanuel Macron said, provided Russia does not invade its neighbor.
In a statement released early Monday, the Elysee Palace said Macron had pitched both leaders on a summit over "security and strategic stability in Europe.”
"Presidents Biden and Putin have both accepted the principle of such a summit," the statement said, before adding that such a meeting would be impossible if Russia invaded Ukraine as Western nations fear it plans to.
The White House did not immediately return a message seeking comment.
The announcement - released after a volley of phone calls between Macron and leaders on both sides of the Atlantic - comes after a week of heightened tensions spurred by Russia's military buildup up and down the Ukrainian border.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-temporarily-closes-checkpoint-donbass-due-shelling-2022-02-20/>>501869How soon is ASAP, and what the fuck new could US bring to the negotiating table?
>Zelensky not invitedsubtle
>>761236This is Marxism
>>501882Josimir Statin
>>501883I wonder what the US would think if they had a civil war 20 miles from the border and one side just starts pushing down the very obvious main highway with fuck-all other than farmland between you.
Ukraine looking sus. Any steps Russians take would be justified by any sane standard. Is this how it begins?
>>501903Could be, of course. Fog of war et cetera
>>501904Idk but Die Linke MP suggested that "private side of French army" (FFL?) Is already in Ukraine
>>501922Kinda makes you wonder what kind of traitor would film their own military making moves and then link it to foreign social media.
American police would kill you for filming less sensitive material.
>>501925I know what you mean but the military does not appear too guarded over it. Even western analyst are surprised by it
It could be that they actually do want it recorded to show how powerful their arsenal is. Just theory
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1493150061714366465?s=20&t=6hEpo8TMlSnZby2YUeFPDw Nothingborscht of a country continues to try to play their NATO masters while admitting the obvious:
>Ukrainian defence minister Oleksiy Reznikov says Russia hasn’t formed a single battle-ready group along the Ukrainian border yet. “So talking about an attack happening tomorrow or day after tomorrow is inappropriate. But it doesn’t mean low risks”. (Give us more weapons anyways)He also said:
>Reznikov said he was expecting that Ukraine-themed Duma session on Feb 22 would result in Russia withdrawing from Minsk agreements. I assume he means recognition of the “republics”.Why the fuck would they do that lol
https://nitter.net/leonidragozin/status/1495490182069600265#m>>501927I mean if you watch the amount equipment Russia has laid out if they really did want to attack they would have the capacity already.
The disagreement here is that don't believe they have that intent to attack. This guy responded to that ukranian officials claim.
Given he's just a literal who but i don't think he is wrong
>>501937Agent Kochinski is like the opposite of Aimee terese
He tried to be so contrarian against muh "tankies" that he came a picture perfect Hillary supporter.
Aimee tried so hard to be against muh wokes that she became female Ben Shapiro
>>501943>>501941Zemmour opinion Russia Ukraine is better than macron. Atlantic council would not fund this
https://www.lesechos.fr/elections/presidentielle/ukraine-eric-zemmour-ne-croit-pas-a-une-invasion-russe-1388350Fears of a conflict have probably never been so strong, but Eric Zemmour wants to be optimistic. Guest of the Grand rendez-vous Europe 1 - CNews - "Les Echos", the presidential candidate said he was "skeptical" about a possible invasion of Ukraine by Russia. "I confess to you that I don't believe it, but I could be wrong," he said, because "there is a lot of propaganda" from the United States and Russia.
For the polemicist, the diplomatic efforts of the French presidency are commendable but vain. “I think Emmanuel Macron is trying to avoid war. He is basically right but I think his approach is doomed to failure, he said. We are seen by the Russians as the little telegraphers from Washington who will report to the boss, who is Joe Biden. Our word is worth nothing. »
While defending the idea of a “peaceful” relationship with Moscow, Eric Zemmour nevertheless wants “the borders and national sovereignty of each country” to be respected. But considers that the extension of NATO constitutes a "major geopolitical problem" and is "seen as an aggression by Russia". Consequently, the candidate advocates the signing of a “great European pacification treaty”. It would require the Russians to respect Ukrainian borders and would require Westerners never to integrate Ukraine into NATO.
>>501951Lukashenko: "Chill out bro, go back to your continent, we'll handle this."
Zemmour: "I don't think Russia will invade. I could be wrong maybe, but meh, whatever."
Putin: "We don't want Donbass. Ukrainian territorial sovereignty should be respected."
American political class:
AAAAAAAHHHHHHH OH MY GOD WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA >>501948>Amazingly, the right wingers have been more antiwar in their rhetoric than liberals, at least in Burgeria. I think it is all cynical and fake, e.g. I think Trump droned even more people than Obama, but they aren't afraid to call out liberal warmongering.Yeah it's pretty cynical. There are a few Ron Paul-esque libertarians like Justin Amash but the Republicans like to play this double game where they'll use antiwar rhetoric for one audience while declaring that Democrats are weak against our "enemies" on the other hand. Remember that George W. Bush used "antiwar" rhetoric in 2000. The Democratic Party's base is much more open to idea of the U.S. striking a deal with Russia to avoid war.
This is why it's a mistake to confuse what politicians say with their voters. This is why I think the "patsocs" won't get very far because they confuse that cynical political rhetoric with the actual opinion of MAGA country. To be sure, MAGA country is a mix of opinions too but I think communists would have more success with tailored messages to the 31% of strong Democrat voters here saying "you don't like Nazis but did you know the U.S. is arming Nazis in Ukraine?" Introduce that contradiction.
>>501949>God I wish I saved that post which just absolutely btfo's anarchism by examining how and why upper class dipshits get attracted to it.I think anarchism's preference for individualism and small groups appeals to petit-bourgeois types who don't have experience being a cog in a very large organization (like, say, an Amazon warehouse).
>>501953I envy your ignorance of Agent Kochinski. I try to actively avoid him, and still am exposed to his horseshit too much.
I'll let someone else ruin your day by posting that
>As an Anarchist - "Fuck the FBI." But…clip.
>>501970>Vaps>Iron Wolf>PērkonkrustsI'd
hope they had lists.
>>501985>>501982DUse making the same shit joke again and again isn't actually very funny and only makes it extremely difficult for anyone to actually follow what's going on, please stop or at least take the meme shit to Siberia so the rest of us can follow the
nothabbening.
>>501960I hate people like you more than any Republican demcorat anything. You try to manipulate people into your belief that democrats are this anti war group.
Every indication today has shown how things have flipped and Democrats push for war way more
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3835 >>501998nta but what does it matter if the partisan politicsalign one way or the other? Like, republicans were seething Afghanistan wasn't razed to the ground before leaving. Maybe are support for a particular imperialist enterprise is just a matter of who's in power and who's in the opposition at the time.
Like if it was the republican party starting this shit, as they will no doubt do after the change of turn, wouldn't the repoublican base be totally a-ok with
their war?
>>501999Here is a lot more data. Republicans favor leaving NATO more, support stopping Ukraine from joining NATO more, are more against troops being sent to help ukraine, more against financial aid to Ukraine, more against weapons to Ukraine etc. Read it over
Some cannot let go that the Republican party today is not the same party of George bush
>>502002Oh yeah? Here are the based antiwar republicans on Afghanistan from 2021(same site):
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/3gw2x4kv4w/econTabReport.pdfRepublicans support both fighting the Afghanistan war, in the present, and remaining there.
Also, as it turns out both parties voters equally supported with ~50%:
<These days, do you think the United States has a responsibility to give military assistance in trouble spots around the world when it is asked to by its allies, or don’t you think the United States has that responsibility?Again, partisan politics. both parties are pro war, pro military spending, against social benefits and pro imperialism. It's just a matter of playing with when and what they support at a given time in the USA's domestic politics.
>>502011It's not about supporting it's about recognizing where we are with the population of the voters today
Republicans are also far less likely to support the FBI CIA etc today + news
When these data points are brought up those that inside do prefer Democrats but want to keep saying "ha I'm a communist hate both" get really defensive over democrata
https://news.gallup.com/poll/355130/job-ratings-key-federal-agencies-decline.aspxhttps://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/30/partisan-divides-in-media-trust-widen-driven-by-a-decline-among-republicans/ >>501994you cant just go home when war starts - the opposite is true, you will have to work extra hours with being guarded by soldiers cause the war needs you, tovarich.
For real war is pretty bad.
This is probably really unpopular here to say but today I don't disbelieve the theory that Tulsi Gabbard does have ties to Russia in some manner
Her commitment to incessantly defend Russia in this conflict day in day out on her twitter since the beginning is suspect.
I know to many here that is favorable and good which is fine but it is weird and the RT editor in chief had big praise for her other day
https://mobile.twitter.com/TulsiGabbardhttps://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-interview-with-putin-demanded-by-margarita-simonyan>>502005cope. We had Trump and it was the NYT and consorts crying the loudest for him to shoot more missiles.
While covering the fact about his drone bombings since they were not wanting them to be disrupted
>>502022Wasn't it confirmed that she had ties to the Syrian government? This would not surprise me tbh.
But tbf skimming through her tweets, I dont see some incessant defense of Russia unless you see "uh guys, maybe Ukraine isnt the shining example of liberal democracy? Maybe intervention… bad?" as being a telltale sign of being a russian shill.
>Russia’s Top Propagandists Beg for a Putin Interview with Tucker Carlsonthis would be peak Kino, I hope they do it
>>502029Oh no! Voldemort Putler, regular violence wasn't good enough for you? Now you need to upgrade to
extreme violence? Just goes to show that you can't trust slytherins.
>>502054>Yeah but are Russians convinced by that lolThe ones who support United Russia probably will be.
Honestly if this shitshow merely comes down to Ukrainians and separatists killing each other en masse in Donbass it's just over. Putin is a cockgobbling faggot who literally played with the lives of all Donbass residents.
Now it seems like the Russians were never planning on a big deployment of troops, they're going to use a bunch of hastily drawn up conscripts from Donbass who nobody will care about when they get killed aside from their families, and the poor bastards' families are now being sent into Russia proper where who the fuck knows what will happen to them. Probably a little bit of human trafficking will happen.
Fuck these kinds of conflicts, no leftist should be proclaiming support for any side.
>>502057This would be an happening even if a small one.
Also I wouldn't exclude Ukrainians chimping out.
>>502055Biden finally gets to play the "Retired general brought back to reign in peace time wusses"(because his entire past has been memoryholed up to 2016) and he can retire as the American Hero who saved the US from Fwascism, restored the bipartisan trust and stood up to Putin.
I sure hope they don't intend to keep behaving like a rowdy nuclear drunktard until 2024.
>>502059And that would only be jet fuel on everything.
I'm getting hopeful.
50% probability of a happening.
>>501987Furthermore /siberia/
need thoses posts for a matter of utmost importance
UKRAINE'S FOREIGN MINISTER KULEBA SAYS REQUESTS UN SECURITY COUNCIL TO IMMEDIATELY HOLD CONSULTATIONS ON UKRAINE
https://twitter.com/FirstSquawk/status/1495786779353694211?cxt=HHwWhoDSsdOJjcIpAAAA
<They're already seethingTaking this as a good sign
>>502083>>502088>horny postingin the happening thread ?
ew
>>502087>Wtf was the artist doing herefailing at propaganda ?
it suggests that Hitler and Stalin are still alive and have surrounded Putin like they were representing 2 countries encircling a third, makes no sense.
>>502090Yes exactly
But also anybody in thread actually thinking rightoid happening is possible in ukraina should check Svoboda results from 2019 elections
>>502033This is a clear provocation, clear and present danger. Putin has no nuts his oligarch Yeltsinite handlers want to keep receiving the gas munnies.
Russia needs an immediate communist revolution and every one of those snakes should be shot in public.
>>502100>>502102Femboy communism is an ancient ukrainian tradition.
>>502101All according to plan, we are coming to spread the gay in your country moskal
Russia stock market down 10% today
https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/stock-market
>The MOEX Russia Index (Russian: Индекс МосБиржи), formerly MICEX Index, is the main ruble-denominated benchmark of the Russian stock market.[1] The index was established on 22 September 1997,[2] and has the same composition as the dollar-denominated RTS Index.[3]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOEX_Russia_IndexUSA market only down .6%
>>502114let's Occam's razor this
>russia will invade ukraine because it can, for economic reasons (the coal situation) just like any other capitalist country (USA and vietnam, Iran and iraq, turkey and syria, saudi and yemen)OR
>russia 'doesn't want to go to war'>russia will only go to war if provoked>russia will only be invading ukraine to get rid of nazis and accomplish [something good] (just like the US invades vietnam for "democracy", just like iran occupies iraq to keep it "safe" from westerners, just like turkey invades/occupies syria to make it "safe" for refugees lol)>russia claims ukraine, a country with a lot less power weapons and money, has already provoked it<implying ukraine would even have a motive to start a war, what with a GDP per capita that is half of belarusWhat seems more simple?
>>502129You are correct that USA can't compete with Russia with natural gas in Europe but:
>implying EU hasn't been trying to fix this with ukrainian coal>implying the reason this crisis has ramped up isn't the fact that the russians will do anything to keep selling EU gas>implying russia wants ukrainian migrants when they have plenty of central asian ones already (who they are very racist against by the way)There's a lot more to this than you think
>>502137>everything is proooopaganda i love totally communist russia Go try being gay in moskalistan, westoid
Try growing your hair a little long and paint your nails
Russian leftists like putin will love you
>>502149I just want you to see how tolerant and pro-communist and anti-homophobia Putin is
You would love russia
>>502166Are you being forreal? Russia claims during Syria war was the same. That attacks were staged.
Why is it beyond reproach and reasonable when they state it?
>>502188That twitter account has no connection to anyone, no identity, no website and constantly post very favorable material to Russia
How about you find a supporting source for this claim besides them uploading a random video and making a title?
>>502192There is nothing to disprove it's on you to prove what the video is. There is millions of videos online of people dying.
Go provide a supporting source with what the tweet states. Should be easy enough
>>502158Glowies prefer to use facts, just like normal people, to push their narrative. Russia has facts on her side, so her glowies can be trusted on these issues.
You can see this clearly from the month long retardation US and Ukraine pulled the whole world through with their "Russia's gonna invade!!!1" There's no credibility to "CIA and Azov" talking points while Russia's talking points were backed by the reality we experienced. So, logically speaking, you have to trust Russia over US and Ukraine.
Why do I have to explain this, even? It's kindergarten-level stuff
>>502199 (me)
BUT ANYWAYS it seems like Putin is going to give an announcement in 10 minutes
>>502193dude, yeah Russians are racist. Against Central Asians. Blacks are a curiosity, black ppl in Russia were almost always like chemics Professors from Nigeria
Pls argue further in the Nazi thread
>>502194>There is millions of videos online of people dying. 1) The sign he is holding is dated today
2) The man can be seen in front of a window with an ornamental ironwork grille and a smashed window
3) Another shot clearly shows gore and the smashed window
4) The gore some metres away is clearly in the same location due to the same grilles being used on the gate
>>502234>>502241Oh, and by the way, as a person who watched all the official Russian TV channels at the time, offcial, "neutral", stance was "blacks do be disproportionately criminals, but policemen are insane to do that to criminals. We don't do that, here's a video of our policeman shooting attackers in the legs and doing multiple shots in the air while said attackers tried to stab them with a knife and walking towards them menacingly!" It clearly favored anti-US-police messaging, and called riots a mismanagement on epic scale, caused by police brutality, not because blacks are bad or something. Russia's official position on the issue was sane (for a capitalist country)
>>502244Is this basically annexation? I don't understand why they would do it. Now the rest of Ukraine will eventually join NATO. Unless they are betting on Ukraine remaining too corrupt (and corrupt
ed) to ever be allowed in by France/Germany. Probably a safe bet, lol
>>502257War.
Ukraine will respond with all out war.
>>502261I thought this was ending the border dispute lol. I guess Ukraine has to recognize them as independent too, and they still haven't done that with Crimea. So I guess still no NATO. Putler wins again
>>502258I still doubt it, but maybe
>>502238>>502223Ukraine hasn't let DPR carry out elections for 5 years and blocks international observers from landing in the country at the direction of the USA because they know they would lose in a referendum and they can claim the elections were rigged because no international observers were there.
While only 38% of people are ethnic Russian, more than 70% speak Russian and want federated independence, while remaining part of Ukraine because both they, and Russia consider, them to be part of Ukraine.
NATO couped Ukraine and is cockblocking them with propaganda and intimidation. Approximately 51% of Ukrainians overall do not want to join NATO but Right Sector terrorizes people at voting locations with USA weapons and kills trade unionists and shelling civilians. Now Ukraine has a list of left leaning and union people that they are looking to massacre, and the USA instead is reporting that Russia has a list too and they are going to arrest Nazi war criminals, which is very bad and muh both sides some how.
>>50226950% of German manufacturing runs on Russian Gas
Either the German economy breaks or NATO.
>>502268>Right sector terrorizes people at voting locations like the KKK did to black people>american leftists actually believe thisThis thread is the most schizophrenic westoid shit I've ever read, don't know to laugh or cry
>right sector kills trade unionistsI'd like to see some evidence i am generally curious because they are not that strong
>>>502274>>502274Germany is the workhouse of Europe.
Germany collapses, everyone collapses.
/CRISIS/ chads win again.
>>502250По Центральному Телевидению (НТВ) пару месяцев назад лизали зад Риттенхаусу, но в целом я согласен с твоим описанием. Проскакивает по России 24 периодически "БЕЛОЕ НАСЕЛЕНИЕ В СТРАХЕ ПЕРЕД ЧЕРНЫМ РАСИЗМОМ, ИХ СЧИТАЮТ АПРИОРИ РАСИСТАМИ ЗА ЦВЕТ КОЖИ", цитируя ФоксНьюз, и всё еще Трампу подсасывют. Но основной посыл российского ТВ это скорее не УУУУУУХХХХХХ ЭТИ НЕГРЫ НЕГОДЯИ, а "не раскачивать лодку, революции это большие потрясения, нам это не нужно, мы научены" - протесты в Париже освещаются аналогичным образом. Потому Путин одновременно говорит что "мы всегда с симпатией относились к борьбе афроамеракинцев за свои права", но и "мол в США теперь пытаются делать как большевики". Либерализм и антисоветчина, конечно, но не такого разлива еще. Реальный расизм, как калька американского, в 2020 исходил от от фашни с Двача, пабликов типа Мужского Государства, и либероидной публики: комментаторы с Эхи тогда чуть ли не Stormfront цитировали, Собчачка плакала о разграблении Luis Vuitton lol
>>502250NTA, but Konstantin Syomin during the Polish Border Crisis last year did talk about how the Russian Media (rightfully) attacked the EU’s response to them, but also antagonizes and demonizes its own migrant and even just minority population.
Syomin’s a good journalist and easily my favorite Russian Left Media figure.
>>502278This is an incident from 8 years ago, can you find anything more recent that right sector has been involved in to prove that this is anything more than the result of inflamed maiden tensions?
Check the 2019 elections results for Svoboda. Right sector is not that powerful anymore. I doubt they have done anything since then
Also the sources you gave failed to mention rayevsky, pro-russian NAZI leader who was organizing for russian military intervention and was kicked out of odessa in March before the rioting
So let's not assume here that the novorossiyans are anti-nazi and pro-worker
>>502289>So let's not assume here that the novorossiyans are anti-nazi and pro-workeryeah, good, ok
bridge off mate
>>502289>Check the 2019 elections results for Svoboda. Right sector is not that powerful anymore.neither of them were super popular except for western parts of Ukraine used to belong to Poland (and Austria-Hungary respectively)
but that's not really the point. most of the pro-maidan political movements were pushing nationalist bullcrap and supporting or at least tolerating rehabilitation of nazi collaborators
>>502330The western imperialists unilaterally declared west Germany "independent" in 1948 without a war.
Also there's Transnistria which isnt a war zone.
>>502339They always did strike me as white Indians.
But the similarities in national character are more the product of similar histories of impoverishment, foreign rule if not out right being imperial subjects and the internecine violence in their often multiethnic communities. Your pogroms are over, in India they still happen. My grandparents were expelled from Bangladesh after the partition in 1947 and my parents lived through a religious riot, where hindus and muslims were lighting their neighbor’s houses on fire.
>>502374No cos it's bullshit, Lenin didn't create Ukraine.
Russian and Ukrainian bourgeois nationalists both hate Lenin cos he's a communist, that's it.
>>502425This guy just got a facelift and now looks kinda fucked up, it was more evident a couple years ago when he was fatter.
The 'peasanty' putin is probably a different guy tho
>>502466Nobody was ever FOR Putin, we all just hate Ukraine.
And now that he's gone full mask-off, even the retards can't try to support him.
>>502466>Why now everybody is against putin? Have all gone glow on me?We would side with Putin taking the Donbass region, because that means the low intensity war would end and the people living there could go back to living like people, without sporadic mortar attacks or ethnic discrimination. And all the people that supported the euromaidan color revolution have no basis for complaining because that started this proxy war, and they would be taking sides with ethno nationalists.
But If Putin did a larger attack for completely dismantling Ukraine it would mean a conflict that kills at least 500k people, and that's not worth it.
Of course Putin hasn't actually done anything, other than have a big troop exercise near the boarder of the Ukraine, and accept the Crimean region into the Russian Federation. Which wasn't his doing, the US puppet regime in Kiev alienated these people into joining Russia, it's US foreign policy blowback.
>>502371The good news is that a war between Russia and Ukraine could galvanize the communist movement in a big way in both countries, especially if escalates to an east west conflict.
Gotta take the red-blackpill: Imperialist war is inevitable under capitalism, but so to is inevitable the communist sentiment that it will result in.
Our task to prep as many people as possible for this inevitability through our organizing and agitprop.
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