Let's mantain the civil discussion we were having in the last thread.
Last thread got full.
FULL SIZZLEGANG FOR THE WINVLADOLF PUTLER MOMENTTO WATCH FOR NEWS: https://liveuamap.com/
>Russian foreign Ministry comments on response: it is inappropriate to demand to withdraw troops from certain regions of Russia. Russia demands Ukraine implements Minsk agreements, the West should stop weapons delivery to Ukraine, withdraw what was delivered already, recall all instructors and advisors from Ukraine, prohibition of NATO joint exercises with Ukraine. Russia demands all U.S. troops and weapons withdrawal from Central and Eastern Europe, Baltic countries. Russia expects proposals on non-expansion of NATO. Russia highlights that questions on arms control cannot be considered separately from other pointsSo, these are the points for descalation:
1:Ukraine implements Minsk agreement.
2:The weapons deliveries towards Ukraine from NATO need to stop.
3:Withdraw what was already delivered to Ukraine.
4:Withdraw all NATO instructos and advisors from Ukraine.
5:Prohibit the cooperation of Ukraine in NATO joint exercises.
6:The total withdrawal of all US troops and weapons from Central and Eastern Europe (This is, Poland, The Baltic States, Slovakia, Romania, and probably even Germany and the Czech Republic
Do you think the US NATO will accept these 6 points?
I'm gonna post my opinion about the russian matter in here as well, it's my post, you can't do nothing about it:
Russia has tried to join NATO, twice.
No real reason for NATO to actually not accept, you would literally have world domination, aside from China.
This is because of a very simple reason, NATO wants to balkanize Russia. The very existence of Russia is a menace to NATO, and I don't mean this because they're "scared" of russian people, but how much territory they occupy.
Russia is the major country that will get a benefit from climate change, it's a country with a lot of natural resources because it literally owns about 1/8 of the planet or so.
It's the literal counterpart of the US, and the US wants it destroyes so it can truly be the world dominator without having no one to actually stand to them. Also Russia has lotsa nukes.
Not saying tho that Russia is an anti-imperialist nation, it is a capitalist nation and capitalism itself enables imperialism, it's a feature, not a dlc. But the thing is that NATO is searching for Russia is to be completely destroyed and balkanized in 5 states or more.
Also the Rimland theory is more important (at least that'd what NATO officials believe) than what you think.
So in thic conflict I support Russia for these reasons.
>Russia is actively defending itself against an outside invader that wants to mutilate it out of paranoia.>Ukraine isn't worth a damn supporting, they have incorporated in their army neo-nazi paramilitaries.>Ukraine is also a shithole that would be better under russian control… Probably (not that hard of a test tbh, being better than a comprador regime for NATO isn't that hard).>More power to Russia means less power to the US, which will make it more aggressive. Supporting Russia is literally accelerationism to ww3, but accelerationism nonetheless, and no, I don't want ww3, I don't like to happen, but one thing is to not like war and the other is to delude oneself into believing that it will not happen, it will happen because it's the natural course of capitalism. This is more asking for a swift death than a prolonged, painful suffering under late stage capitalism.>Seriously, fuck the Ukrainian goverment.>In fact, fuck ALL nato states, including mine.Despite this, I recognize that:
>Russia is a capitalist country. Thus means that it is imperialist because imperialism is the capitalist drive for profit natural course of action, read imperialism, the last stage of capitalism. Every capitalist country will become either imperialist, or imperialized, and Russia clearly isn't being imperialized as, say, Togo is.>Russia is ruled by a capitalist class, the same class that killed the Soviet Union and thus killed AES.>The russian state is actively smearing the soviet union, by example making the gulag archipelago a required reading in schools, meanwhile putting into a shrine a fake version of Stalin, deluding themselves into thinking he was a fascistic strong dictator instead of the antithesis of fascism which is why russian rightwingers love to say that they liked Stalin but hate Lenin, despite the former being literally a disciple and rightful succesor to Lenin's theories and politics.Btw this also applies to China.
>>508912>wagner groupThe Wagner Group aren't fascists.
>neonazis with SS rune tattoos literally next to putinHow old are they, and what was the context in what they were taken? You realize neo-nazi insignia is widely despised in Russia, much more than in Ukraine?
>>508915and this is him with putin.
>You realize neo-nazi insignia is widely despised in Russia, much more than in Ukraine?most of Azov is Russian speaking and from Eastern Ukraine, which = Russian according to a lot of posters here, but I've never seen anyone call that out
the guys behind "Occupy Pedophilia" (neonazi group that filmed themselves baiting gay people and humiliating them) always got off with lax sentences. Needless to say rabid nationalism is not uncommon in Russia, pic related is state owned TV in 2018
>>508920Yeah that's understandable.
>>508925>the guys behind "Occupy Pedophilia" (neonazi group that filmed themselves baiting gay people and humiliating them) always got off with lax sentences. Needless to say rabid nationalism is not uncommon in Russia, pic related is state owned TV in 2018 <Implying the same shit doesn't happen in Ukraine as well.Why should I support Ukraine instead of Russia?
<Support no sides.Supporting no sides means supporting the stronger one by default, which in this case is Ukraine because it's a literal vassal state of the US.
I hate Russia, but I hate the US more than Russia, thus I will support Russia, as easy as.
>>508927>We should be carefull while the Putinist state is a corrupt oligarchuc regime(who ofcourses uses nazis as attack dogs) there is a major difference between the hitlerists of ukraine who whpuld genocide the place The leader of Wagner is a Nazi point blank and does regularly go send his men to kill people.
They are mercenaries
>>508938isnt the leader of the parliament a literal Hitler funboy?
Like a non atisemitic nazi is still a nazi
>>508940No one said Wagner is antifa.
Stop talking to ghosts.
kill yourself.
>>508940The difference is that this is just a shady group, that operates clandestine, made up of ex-GRU and has ties to oligarchs.
Ukraine has officially integrated the Azov batallion into the military, they stage big training camps for the youth. There is creeping fascism in Ukrainian society, especially with the actions of tearing down Lenin statues, outlawing the Communist Party, purging unions, and more and more revising of the OUN. The ambassador of Ukraine to Germany laid down flowers at the grave of Stephan Bandera for fucks sake.
>>756243>>508940>>508928Guess what fagoid
If Russia had a revolution today and Putin and every billionaire oligarch were strung up in red square, if every wagner merc was dumped down a mineshaft, if they sent the Cheka into Donbass to cleanse every right-winger and reactionary militia from the region,
They would still have to defend themselves against NATO encroachment via their proxy Ukraine >>508953Ukraine isn't a member of NATO, and if it becomes one, only because Russia attacked them in 2014 and still tries to start up shit today.
>>508952>especially with the actions of tearing down Lenin statuesin their perspective those are statues of a foreign conqueror who ended their brief independence
>outlawing the Communist Party, purging unionsYeah, fair enough.
>>508958I like how history for you basically starts with 2014 and you completely forget about the Maidan coup, and the entire encirclement of Russia by NATO since 20 years. Answer me this, if a Russian-Iranian coalition would just coup the government in Mexico, do you think the US would do nothing?
The whole thing was also conducted incredibly stupid. They already reached an agreement with Yanukovich for a peaceful referendum and his resignation (Putin said he told Yanukovich to resign, trying to deescalate), then some "unknown" snipers started murdering cops and protestors alike, the BBC itself later reported that their identity is unknown and reporting back then was fake news. They then stormed the parliament, and then said some incredible stupid shit, like wanting to outlaw Russian as an official language, let nazis roam with impunity, they were setting a hosptial and a trade union center in Odessa on fire. And then suddenly Crimea - which never really agreed to be part of Ukraine anyway, it was given to Ukraine as a gift by Krushchev and in 1991 they suddenly found themselves in a different country that impoverishes even quicker than Russia - wants to secede? Well golly gee, who could have seen that coming!
>>508942So the problem is that everyone can listen to different sources, if only to sate their confirmation bias or to be hipsters about where they get their opinions. So hiding information from your platform unless backed by a mainstream media niche blackout, only raises the value of the information.
Like the Streisand effect but with more sectarianism now that everyone has accepted the new truth of fake news, fact checkers and "foreign disinformation". Everyone wants to sort neatly in their safe spaces and be provided a *full* pre-digested worldview because that's what the "engagement" driven social media business condition people to do, if you are missing facets it breaks the illusion.
So now we put trigger warnings and jannie post-its under naughty posts and employ cubicle farms of nerds to write contrived, pedantic rebuttals of the information to discredit.
>>508958>their perspective those are statues of a foreign conqueror who ended their brief independencelol no it's cos Lenin was a communist and naturally the bourgeoisie despise him for his role in making proletarian revolution a reality.
It's the same reason Vlasovites like Putin slander Lenin and praise Denikin, Ilyin and Solzhenitsyn, while the Russian government erects plaques to fascist butchers like Mannerheim.
>>508958>Ukraine isn't a member of NATO, and if it becomes one, only because Russia attacked them in 2014 and still tries to start up shit today.Let's dispense with the western shitlib narrative, we both know that America has thrown Ukraine to the dogs. If evil rusha really wants to launch an all-out invasion of the Ukraine as Biden says, all NATO will do is make a bunch of Germans freeze in their apartments.
If I was still a Ukraine-supporting lib, I would see that NATO only has interests in making Ukraine a proxy against Russia and tossing weapons at their corrupt government. When push came to shove, NATO and America abandoned Ukraine, and Ukrainians will remember that, just as the Afghans learned.
And just as in Afghanistan, half-assed weapons support and "advisors" won't do shit when you've created a dependency in a nation's government on foreign aid - and as we learned in Afghanistan, when the local government and military expect free money falling out of the sky, all your army will be is a bunch of corrupt commanders skimming off the top, and a bunch of untrained zero-morale retard conscripts that desert at the first sign of trouble.
So even if I agree with your narrative of "imperialist russha evil" then NATO is just as evil for treating Ukraine as a disposable chess piece, and when their army inevitably folds within hours, NATO high command will throw up their hands and wonder what happened, then move on to the next proxy war.
>>508965Yeltsin consented to the enlargement of NATO. Europe's army is ridiculously small and carried by France. USA doesn't even have that much in Europe. Rabid Russia-hate from Ukrainians is understandable and not (((glow))) if you can read a history book. Of course, internationalism and all that, but fact of the matter is Russia keeps fucking Ukraine up, you can't ask them to support them and be surprised when they bring out the Freikorps.
Let's do a thought exercise, what would happen if muh NATO wasn't on Russia's backyard? Oh yeah, Ukraine, the Baltics, and numerous other countries would cease to exist overnight, as Russia has proven by its absolute uyghur behavior around literally every country bordering it. Hoho, and no, it wouldn't be the good ol' SSR, they would be throughly Russified, workers would serve to make Putin a new palace, etc. Russia isn't the victim in this one, never was.
>>508975>If I was still a Ukraine-supporting lib, I would see that NATO only has interests in making Ukraine a proxy against Russia and tossing weapons at their corrupt government. When push came to shove, NATO and America abandoned Ukraine, and Ukrainians will remember that, just as the Afghans learned.I'm not a lib, I support Ukraine, and I know this is the case. My word doesn't matter though, only the actions of those at the top. I just rest at ease knowing my words are informed and not ideologue tier.
>>508984>Based if trueAre you implying this is false information?
Why?
>>508985>Yeltsin consented to the enlargement of NATO. Europe's army is bla bla bla<Using ((())) unironically<Gets filtered by saying uyghurS.They've traslated a 4chan fed to here guys.
CIA ain't sending it's best.
>>508985Yeltsin was a Quisling, so of course he'd starve his own people.
You'll learn this when the pendulum swings against the western alliance and your "leaders" sell you out - actually, scratch that, just look around you. Your bourgeois owners are willing to let your family and millions like it die to the plague so they can keep enlarging their yacht funds. German "social democrats" (Rosa killers) are willing to let millions of their own people freeze to own the Russians.
>>508990lol alright Kerensky.
I see Russian nationalists still love that line.
>>508991I didn't type the N word tho
>Yeltsin consented to the enlargement of NATO. Europe's army is bla bla blaThis is true.
>>508996Pls answer this (you didn't in the last thread)
Do you think that Ukraine is a sovereign country with it's own political agenda, different to that of the US?
>>508985>Rabid Russia-hate from Ukrainians is understandable and not (((glow))) if you can read a history book.They were considered fraternal peoples until 2014. Ukrainians didn't hate the Russians before this whole shit started.
>Of course, internationalism and all that, but fact of the matter is Russia keeps fucking Ukraine up, you can't ask them to support them and be surprised when they bring out the Freikorps.Ukraine is far more fucked by neoliberalism and massive US lobbying, the entire post-Maidan government was lobbied for by US finance capital like their prime minister, ex-Goldman Sachs. Europe and the US
could help Ukraine economically, enact some sort of Marshall Plan 2.0 for Ukraine, but they don't. Plus, has Russia even enacted sanctions against Ukraine? All they did was scrapping the subsidies for the gas deliveries.
>Let's do a thought exercise, what would happen if muh NATO wasn't on Russia's backyard? Oh yeah, Ukraine, the Baltics, and numerous other countries would cease to exist overnight, as Russia has proven by its absolute uyghur behavior around literally every country bordering it. Hoho, and no, it wouldn't be the good ol' SSR, they would be throughly Russified, workers would serve to make Putin a new palace, etc. Russia isn't the victim in this one, never was.If you are trolling, it's quality.
>>508985>Let's do a thought exercise, what would happen if muh NATO wasn't on Russia's backyard? Oh yeah, Ukraine, the Baltics, and numerous other countries would cease to exist overnight, as Russia has proven by its absolute uyghur behavior around literally every country bordering it.No they wouldn't
>Rabid Russia-hate from Ukrainians is understandable and not (((glow))) if you can read a history book. Of course, internationalism and all that, but fact of the matter is Russia keeps fucking Ukraine up, you can't ask them to support them and be surprised when they bring out the Freikorps.>"Nazis were justified!!!! The Allies made them do it with the Versailles treaty!!! They were just defending themselves from soviet encroachment!!!"
>Hoho, and no, it wouldn't be the good ol' SSR, they would be throughly Russified, workers would serve to make Putin a new palace, etc. Russia isn't the victim in this one, never was.>"The enemy is an insane, Hitler-level Dictator who will literally enslave us all!!!"nice consent manufacturing you have there.
> my words are informed and not ideologue tierliterally everything you said suggests the complete opposite.
>>508985>Yeltsin consented to the enlargement of NATO. Yeah, and then NATO broke the 1997 promises, like they always do
>Rabid Russia-hate from Ukrainians is understandable and not (((glow)))Ukranians voted overwhelmingly to maintain the USSR. The only ones that hate Russia are the new generation that, betrayed by the last generation of liberalized Soviet bureucrats, were forced into economic exile and there they picked the crops, cleaned the toilets, and drove the lorries of well functioning countries, who do you think they are going to want to be like? They havent comprehended that theyll be as colonzied with NATO - EVERY single ex-Warsaw state has yet to reach the same living standards pre 1991 except Latvia or something, which had the highest living standard of the entire USSR - as with Russia. This is a generational divide, and a hatred exploited by western colonizers that drove them into depending on fascist militias for their protection. Bandera the butcher was reclaimed and has been erected over Lenin, the blackest of reactions.
Shut the fuck up you reddit retard. Yeah, the only real answer here is proletarian internationalism. But if youre asking us to choose between NATO and the RF, RF is the clear lesser evil in this situation. A defeat for NATO means a victory for the rest of the world. Go drink diharrea
>>508994Alright smartass tell me how Lenin got from Switzerland to Russia
holy FUCK
>>509005Travelled on a GERMAN CHARTERED TRAIN
>>509004Learn what an op means
>>509007Lenin getting to Russia was an op.
But Lenin himself was not an op, read again what you wrote yourself.
>>509008Last year was the first year the German government
DIDN'T thank the Red Army for the liberation of Auschwitz. The statement was about "the allies" and then they added something about Israel.
>>508989>Ok explain how Russia winning helps the global southLmao, the fact you even have to ask this question.
Do you even know why the global south is considered the "globals south"? Something to do with imperialism and the West being hegemonic
>>508931ANGLO MOMENT fuck outta here you lobsterback
>>509020same
>>508999Yes.
>>509000>No they wouldn'tYes they would, they have muh Russian minorities as well :)
>"Nazis were justified!!!! The Allies made them do it with the Versailles treaty!!! They were just defending themselves from soviet encroachment!!!"Seems like you're describing Russia more than Ukraine. Ukraine isn't starting shit with anyone, its Russia cucking them out of their own foreign policy then invading them once they stopped sucking them off to the ballsack.
>nice consent manufacturing you have there.<noooo novorossiya isnt real even though putin literally said on TV all of southern ukraine belongs to russiaaaa>"The enemy is an insane, Hitler-level Dictator who will literally enslave us all!!!"Well yeah, its not like he's a capitalist + nationalist.
>>509002>Ukranians voted overwhelmingly to maintain the USSR>Ukranians voted overwhelmingly to maintain the USSR>Ukranians voted overwhelmingly to maintain the USSRJesus marx anon!
Lies, >90% voted for independence.
>>509017So? It'll just be Russia and China exploiting the Global South workers/markets; both are extremely nationalist entities who are friends of capital and don't export communist ideology abroad.
>>508971See how few you know about Russians, despite Lenin being Russian. You don't know that in the Slavic culture, Stalin is loved, even among some weird Slavic states. That's because he won the war.
Lenin, on the other hand, is not loved so much because he left a legacy on administrative territories that weren't too good to cope with ethnic tensions.
Westernoids do not know this, they love Lenin and despise Stalin, but in the end Slavics, including Russians, Georgians, Belorrusians, Armenians, Azerbajaians, etc respect, and even praise Stalin over Lenin.
You will never be Lenin's true learner.
>>509027The separation of Stalin from Lenin is something Russian nationalists try to do, buying into the Trotskyite myth of the "revolution betrayed".
In reality, Stalin was Lenin's best pupil and a Bolshevik from head to toe who strengthened the system Lenin built. The Leninist policy of internationalism is what gave the USSR its strength and victories, bourgeois nationalism is the antithesis of that and every nationalist hates Lenin.
For communists, Lenin and Stalin stand together, and it's really irrelevant what shit-for-brains bourgeois nationalists think.
>>509025>Well yeah, its not like he's a capitalist + nationalist.So is Joe Biden. Anti-Nationalism isn't when you are nice to LGBT people and vice versa.
>So? It'll just be Russia and China exploiting the Global South workers/marketsWhat timescale are we talking about here? 50 years? 100? Right now, in the present, would a multipolar world order be a
huge benefit to the global south and would offer independent development. If that is so bad, why are so many Africans in favor of this?
Since you think Lenin is a "foreign agent", you probably don't care about his analysis of imperialism, but Russia right now doesn't export capital in a considerable manner. It exports commodities, oil, gas and weapons. They don't export huge Russian firms to Africa. Russia's financial sector is also negligable.
>>509033Leninhat with the based post.
Supporting this word for word.
>>509025what a dishonest sack of shit you are you nato shill
>they have muh Russian minorities so you have no idea what the war there is about do you ? pure moron
>Ukraine isn't starting shit with anyoneI mean even reading only western media you should have noticed this isnt true
>cucking them out of their own foreign policy lol yeah minor countries without army can totally alienate their big regional power neighbors and serve as military base for their enemies without risk, its purely their rights! (oh, and destroying their own economy in the process, cause they had close ties to russia obviously and also got free money from pipelines…)
>Lies, >90% voted for independence.you're the lying sack of shit here
>It'll just be Russia and China exploiting the Global South workers/marketsdo you have any idea idea how neo colonialism works ? pro tip, having various powers offering capital is the easiest way to develop and get out of those relations
fuck off the board you glow so hard it hurts
>>509040Fog of war, no one really knows what's true
Over the next couple days, obsessing over uamaps would make someone insane
>>509037there is literally nothing strange about liberals using uyghur
the only people on earth who take issue with it are PC Americans and their Anglo brethren
t. yuropoor
>>509039>so you have no idea what the war there is about do you ? pure moronThat is part of the official Russian state media narrative.
>lol yeah minor countries without army can totally alienate their big regional power neighbors and serve as military base for their enemies without risk, its purely their rights! (oh, and destroying their own economy in the process, cause they had close ties to russia obviously and also got free money from pipelines…)Ukraine gave up >1,000 nukes to Russia for a peace guarantee.
>you're the lying sack of shit herehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referenduminb4 wikipedia CIA source
>do you have any idea idea how neo colonialism works ? pro tip, having various powers offering capital is the easiest way to develop and get out of those relationsYes but they're not going to get much capital from Russia/China especially the latter because they all seek autarkic measures. in the end the same thing happened during the Cold War and african countries just turned into either agents of washington and moscow and just let their own people to rot
>fuck off the board you glow so hard it hurtsthank you I wish I was a CIA agent but sadly foreigners are not eligible.
>>509043true. I also didn't say N, I self censored myself for double irony.
>>508960Lenin literally founded Ukraine as a nation entity, argued for its independence and gave it fucktonnes of land that wasn't even claimed by Ukraine.
Ukrainians tearing down Lenin statues are actual reactionary retards.
>>509046>thank you I wish I was a CIA agent but sadly foreigners are not eligible.Go to your local US embassy, you can still be a quisling.
What country, fag?
>>509046>Ukraine gave up >1,000 nukes to Russia for a peace guarantee.As if Europe/the US would have let Ukraine keep them
>92.3% voted to leaveSuspiciously high number
>>509033Retard take. Stalin is loved in Russia, despite he is Georgian. The reason came even before the USSR's dissolution. Despite Lenin having statues all over the USSR, his personification was sanctified (Krushit never questioned Lenin, for example), the victory on the war was given to Stalin, and that was enough to give the appreaciation he has over Lenin.
In any case, your mannerheim plaque was already removed:
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/controversial-mannerheim-memorial-unveiled-june-already-scheduled-removal.htmlYou can't say the same for the U.K.
https://forward.com/news/481609/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-the-united-kingdom/ >>509056See?
This is why Portugal shouldn't exist and should be annexed by Spain.
>>509053Lmao shit, youre right. I mixed up two generations of fascist nationalists. Either ways, the only ones declaring independence from the Tsar were right wing nationalist bourgeois. At the time, Ukraine was one of its most industrialized regions, and the Bolsheviks had ample support. During the invasion of a dozen imperial armies to the USSR Ukraine was lost twice, once to the whites and the other to the blacks. Clearly Ukraine was split between bougeois nationalist and opposing leftist sections that managed to gain some prominence while France, USA, England, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Germany, Japan, Italy, Finland, etc, all piled on to Moscow.
>>509055Stalin and Lenin have about the same levels of popularity in Russia. It's only because the current regime tries to claim the glory of the Soviet (not Russian) victory in 1945 that Stalin is more popular.
For communists, they stand together.
>>509061It's true that Lenin was allowed to return because the German government knew that he would neutralize Russia, which he did, but that doesn't mean he ever served them or shared their goals.
Same way Tito was sent by Stalin and the comintern to take control of the Yugoslav party, then cucked them.
>>509068>to really help Ukraine, it is not necessary to continue talking about the dates of an alleged invasionZelensky seething at the economy going down the toilet lmao
>"Other dates are more important to us," he said, referring to Ukraine's accession to NATO and the EU.Hilarious if the press has just completely put these words in his mouth, further shitting up the situation for him.
>>509069Russell was right about them needing to come in on wings if they're going to reinforce Donbass, so that will probably be taken as "proof" of these claims.
>1. Ukrainian President Volodymir Zelensky will be in Germany at the Munich Security Conference. He is scheduled to speak at 1530 Munich time.[2] >His absence from Ukraine will degrade his ability to coordinate a response to any Russian attack and create more propitious circumstances for a Russian-sponsored attempt at a coup d’etat. >Russian forces could close Ukrainian airspace to prevent Zelensky from returning to Kyiv.Kek, they really think he's not just a figurehead. God help Ukraine if that guy is actually in charge of anything.
Helga LaRouche currently has the chairwoman of the Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine on.
https://twitter.com/ZeppLaRouche/status/1495046344104415235Funny that they call themselves progressives but have "National Bolshevism" and "social conservatism" as their ideology lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Socialist_Party_of_Ukraine>>509081Actually builds socialism LIKE A BOSS
Bagration time
>>509058All of them at the same time? And no one is calling it "evil". It's clear and obvious that Russia is an oligarchy with Putin at it's political head, this isn't new news. And it's also clear that Russia would 'like' to have the Ukraine become part of the greater Russian political whatever. It's also clear that in the Ukraine there are separatists who are indistinguishable from fascists and ethnic cleansers that should all be rounded up to a wall and all executed without due process such as the "azov". But in my personal opinion I think it should be Ukrainians who decide their future and I prefer the bullets to come from other Ukrainians rather than Russian troops when dealing with the reactionaries in this country.
More often times than not I do not extend such courtesy to Poland because Poland is a theocracy that needs to just be nuked. It's a wart of Eastern Europe.
>>509085No fucking way lmao, these guys were also high up in proto-LDNR in the early days
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Gubarev (Pic 1)
>Pavel Yuryevich Gubarev (Russian: Па́вел Ю́рьевич Гу́барев, pronounced [ˈpavʲɪl ˈjʉrʲjɪvʲɪdʑ ˈɡubərʲɪf]; Ukrainian: Павло Юрійович Губарєв; born 10 February 1983) is a Ukrainian pro-Russian activist who proclaimed himself the "People's Governor" of the Donetsk Region at the Regional Assembly on 3 March 2014, after separatists seized the building. Gubarev had earlier declared himself leader of the Donbas People's Militia.[5] But since then he has been sidelined by other separatist leaders and was banned from taking part in the 2014 Donbas parliamentary elections.[2] These elections also eliminated the post of "People's Governor".[2] Gubarev was not a major figure in local politics prior to the beginning of the 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine.[citation needed]Also found this while looking him up because I forgot his name
>In Donetsk, the Kremlin supported Pavel Gubarev as self-proclaimed ‘People’s Governor’ of Donetsk Oblast. Now under arrest, Gubarev is a former member of the neo-Nazi ‘Russian National Unity’ party founded in Moscow in 1990 and a current member of the far-right, misleadingly named, Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine. This party’s leader is Natalya Vitrenko, a long-term associate of American right-wing extremist and anti-Semite Lyndon LaRouche and Eurasianist ideologue Aleksandr Dugin. The latter personally instructed the extremists in Donetsk after Gubarev had been arrested by the Ukrainian security service.https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/ssees/2014/05/09/south-eastern-ukraine-extremism-and-the-anti-maidan/Why is LaRouche everywhere lmao
Pic 2 is RAG, the RNU's paramilitary reported to be in Donbas
>>509080My man wearing the Squares camo to blend into the industrial setting.
Russell is a true chad getting these news out. A tiny signal amidst the noise of western propaganda.
>>509102And they are actually very similar in their appearence as well, the SGP Trots also dress up in suit and tie and want to appear normal and official.
But the LaRouchites of BüSo, of which Helga is the chairwoman, overdo it. They actually put a lot of work into getting recognized and file various direct candidates every election, but they appear far more crazy than the Australian Citizens Party who seem to make more inroads - in Germany, they stand with framed pictures of Vladimir Putin in front of post offices. For a country that has a stick up its ass like Germany, this is very off-putting. Still, I am always surprised when I see them punching way above their weight, they frequent CGTN for example.
>>509025>So? It'll just be Russia and China exploiting the Global South workers/markets; both are extremely nationalist entities who are friends of capital and don't export communist ideology abroad.
<China/Russia appear Imperialist <West appear imperialist Therefore China/russia imperialism the same as that of the west
<An octopus appear to have eyes< Mammals appear to have eyes Therefore the eyes of the octopus are the same as those of mammals
Reality: if you take historical development in account, only then you will see that they're not the same, it is convergent evolution.
You think in metaphysical categories, consider the complete different historical development of China/russia vs that of the West.
Surface appearance =/= Essence
>>509100<70 violationsYesterday they were 60…
Still a long way to go but definitely slightly heating up
>>509115In ukraine is already 6 pm, and in Donetsk is 7 pm.
If things get heated in the night it would signal things getting serious.
>>509069Big if true
lol >>509127Yes agent , I too was neutral until I learnt that Russia caused all this by fomenting a separatist uprising in 2014. Clearly
the meddling was not limited to the 2016 USA presidential elections Vladolf Putler has no respect for the sovereignty of other nations, and Putinist Russia is a rogue state that threatens the decades of peace the US bought with it's many sacrifices in WW2.
>>509133This is rather crude summary but he was trot who turned into some weird flashy cult leader. At the center of his ideology is that the British crown still controls the world or something. Anglos are to larouchites as jews are you Nazis sort of.
Overall its a sort of eclectic mix of different shit. Think Gaddhafi but for Americans I guess.
>>509127Thats a stupid reason to believe that. The whole metadata crap could easily have been manipulated and the "sloppily done Russian false flags" are all a matter of framing. Just compare it to the "sloppily false flags" done by the ukraine, like the Kindergarden which was hit by a bomb but had all its windows intact. In the end we have to sides with large amounts of ressources waging an information war at the moment, so getting manipulated into backing one side of the other on singular events is easy. Be careful.
The reason why I am starting to believe the Ukrainian side is because the recent invasion of the Donbass by the Ukraine makes absolutely no sense. NATO wont save them, the Russians are directly at the border and they have 0 chance of beating the russians in an open conflict. This would be the absolute worst moment for the Ukraine to do something like this.
>>509144>Thats a stupid reason to believe that. The whole metadata crap could easily have been manipulated Oh please. If there was a video of Kamala or biden speaking like that and max Blumenthal or Ben Norton tracked it down that was recorded days earlier you'd be going ballistic as would all the pro Russia crowd on twitter making fun the officials for pre planning this.
Don't be biased, you know that is fishy and strange
>>509149Wtf are you on about. This isn't about what retards like Ben Norton would have done in the scenario.
The truth of the matter is it could have been easily manipulated. This isn't some "uh, the video was manipulated with cgi" bullshit, its literally just changing a few numbers with an editing software.
No one takes this shit seriously outside of some twitteroids who wanted attention.
>>509155Couldn't someone else just go to that telegram channel, download that video and verify? I didn't see anyone on twitter do anything but immediately fellate "osint"
I still don't know what it would tell us about Russia, other than that they are lying, same as everyone in any modern war
>>509143Biden 2020: America is back
Putin 2022: Russia is back
>>509159There is a confidential app I forgot the name
It deletes messages every an x amount if seconds
>>509163lol no. They are "independent media" lmao.
Even if the BBC has been proved to receive funds from the intelligence agencies of the U.K., they wouldn't be tagged as "British media".
>>508952> has ties to oligarchs. Guess who runs the Russian government?
Oligarchs
It’s exactly the same situation as mainstream media being owned by US oligarchs who also run the US government.
>>509168I'd rather have a multipolar world where America has to watch its ass than a unipolar one where America coups and invades whomever it wants.
Sorry if that triggers you faggot.
>>509163No. Not even the ones directly funded by the US government itself.
YouTube on the other hand does for some reason.
>>509171Some other anon posted this, they aren't very subtle apparently:
<https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en-us/posts/authors/dawn-scalici/Dawn Scalici joined Thomson Reuters in July 2015 to serve as the company’s first Government Global Business Director. She is charged with the responsibility of advancing Thomson Reuters’ ability to meet the disparate needs of the U.S. Government—working across the company’s major business lines and optimally leveraging its vast and unique data, products, and services. In this capacity she develops strategic relationships with government sector constituents and key decision-makers, develops campaigns to promote Thomson Reuters’ business growth, and works with the company’s senior executives to determine relevant strategic goals and plans.
Prior to joining Thomson Reuters, Ms. Scalici served 33 years with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). In her last federal assignment, she served as the National Intelligence Manager for the Western Hemisphere within the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI). In this role, she was responsible for overseeing national intelligence for an area of responsibility spanning from the Arctic to the tip of South America, including the US Homeland.
Ms. Scalici serves on the Board of Directors for the Association for International Risk Intelligence Professionals and on the Board of Advisors of the Momentum Aviation Group (MAG). She also serves on the Intelligence Committee of the Arms Forces Communications and Electronics Association (AFCEA) and the Homeland Security Intelligence Council of the Intelligence and National Security Alliance (INSA).
<Twitter partners with UK govt-backed, CIA-linked Reuters to censor alternative viewshttps://thegrayzone.com/2021/08/04/twitter-uk-cia-reuters-censorship/ >>509180And the creator of the grayzone father is the biggest glowuyghur on planet and best friends with Hillary as a great advisor to her for decades.
These articles are real interesting to read but anyone can look up people's career history and ties, they are openly searchable.
>>509184They'll take anyone with a shitty humanities degree
>160k full applications in 2008Jesus christ
>>509127>they're bad at information and propaganda wars, so that means they're the bad guys !>huh, could it have been that I am more exposed to one side propaganda than the other ? nahhilarious reasoning
>neutral about this whole conflict then you were on the west side already, west is the aggressor on the geopolitical level
>evacuation announcement video that had metadata showing it was made days before I am still unsure about this, because telegram is supposed to strip metadata for one, and preparing an evacuation in advance isnt really shocking
>It's just that it's clear to me now that Russia is trying to provoke a war for its own imperialist ambitionsnow that just retarded, they would have invaded already if thats what they really wanted
also
<do not want US nukes and airbases on its border<muh imperialist ambitionskys
>>509127I will add the ukrainian are the one not respecting the original minsk agreement, the only demand russia has is a guarantee it doesnt enter nato and the respect of minsk
and ukrainian are fucking over their population (and the whole of europe) only for US interests
>>509196And Putin called the soviet system a "fairytale", equated "bolshevism" (in that word) with modern american sjws and called both a "crime against humanity".
Source for the last part:
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66975 >>509204Have you seen what he says about the Bolsheviks?
>"The Bolsheviks treated the Russian people as inexhaustible material for their social experiments. They dreamt of a world revolution that would wipe out national states. That is why they were so generous in drawing borders and bestowing territorial gifts. It is no longer important what exactly the idea of the Bolshevik leaders who were chopping the country into pieces was. We can disagree about minor details, background and logics behind certain decisions. One fact is crystal clear: Russia was robbed, indeed."http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181Literally word for word regurgitation of white guard/fascist slander from the 1920s.
<"The J̶e̶w̶i̶s̶h̶ scheming Bolsheviks carved up holy Russia!" >>509208>>509209calm the fuck down americano, I'm not saying he's literally putler but he's a clear enemy to communism (look at this shit lmao
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_Grief ) and this board seems to forget that
>>509211In what way is Putin more of an enemy of communism than every other bourgeois politician in the West? In fact, I would say he is
less of an enemy because despite some of the shit he said he still has an interest to not shit all over the legacy of the USSR because that would damage his popularity massively.
If your entire argument is "well, he is not a communist", then duh fucking duh, I didn't know that! I thought he was the reincarnation of Plekhanov!
>>509211>Look here peasants, here is the UNDENIABLE PROOF that PUTLER is the ETERNAL and MORTAL ENEMY of Communism!!1!1!<link to some stupid monument wow… tankies
? truly have lost the plot. This is some lib aesthetics-focused bullshit.
No one is saying Putin is a communist or even an ally, but painting him as the greatest threat communists have ever faced is ridiculous.
>>509213And I'm missing out on all those sweet nothings.
>>509214Putler is a thing now?
>>509221The thing is, while Putin might be an enemy to communists, the criticism in this context is an implicit approval of NATO, even if they denounce NATO. Nuance is dead. You're either a Putin dick sucker or a fan of NATO the defense alliance bringing peace to the world by countries that choose to join by their own volition.
Agent Kochinskiites on the internet have been conjuring the idea that "tankies" think Russia is leftist or some shit, or as Adam Something says, "it will bring about leftist utopia". You can't win, so no point in trying to convince redditors that Putler doesn't exist. If Putler is a thing then Biden is the Satanic Butler.
>>509227The Ukrainian government after 2014 has not just outlawed the big Communist Party (in case you think they were shit), but communism altogether, including tendencies you might sympathize with, outlawed communist symbolic (hammer and sickle, red stars, everything), tore down Lenin statues and replaced them with fucking Bandera.
It's not about who is the "voice of reason". I am getting arrested and tortured in Ukraine, I am left alone to organize in Russia. Russia might have banned the NazBol party but for historical reasons they can never outlaw the Communist Party and that is a fact. Cope, seethe, dilate.
>>509204In no place says that, chums. Also, Putin himself said he would stop the USSR dissolution if it was possible for him to go back in time.
https://apnews.com/article/d36b368c6ad44bb2b8e883fc8d800514>he was asked what occurrence in Russia he would have most liked to have prevented.
>He replied “the disintegration of the Soviet Union,” according to Russian news reports.
>In 2005, Putin attracted wide attention when he said in a state-of-the-nation speech that the Soviet collapse was “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”Which unlike you, nothing was taken out of context as you do intentionally in your post.
>>509228>Putler is a thing now? Yeah, we're on like day 2 I think. Not gonna lie, Vladolf Putler is kinda funny but I know it's gonna get run into the ground in a week.
>>509231Bidenito Joessolini **okay so it's not a good bit*
>>509210And how did that work for the Russians after the USSR dissolution, to have parts of its state given to other republics? it is what I said above about Lenin. That process went without considering ethnics tensions, and socialism isn't and never was a panacea for ethnic tensions. Even with the revolutionary processes.
You hate Russia and love to slander it, but you can't fucking start your revolution in one of the countries that contributed to encricle the USSR and later dissolved, with many people losing faith in communism adopting different idoologies, you pretend to blame it on all of them and project it as something worst or comparable to the west, when in fact the NATO alliance capted nazis and anti-communists of all sort to destroy the USSR.
You are, and always will a class traitor.
>>509250ukrainians have the anti-communist AND the nazi gene in them, it's in their nature
rule under comrade putler might not be the best but he's still preferable so critical support for literally putler against azov neonazism
>>509248The destruction of the USSR affected proletarians of all 15 republics, not merely Russians. The USSR wasn't just Russia, but an equal union of republics, and the territory of the Russian Federation today is the same as that of the RSFSR so nothing has changed in that regard.
Proletarians in central Asia and the Baltic SSRs had it arguably worse than Russian ones, given the fascistic levels of repression against communists in those regions.
I'm well aware of the role of NATO in rehabilitating nazism and the British bourgeoisie in fighting communism from Malaya to Ireland.
>>509253Good question:
Vladimir Putin -> Vladimir Putler -> ??? No sissy hypnosis -> WWIII
Transitioning would've saved her.
>>509254Perhaps, I'll need to check the math.
>>509067"Dictatorial powers"? LMAO
>>509057Truly American Brain Syndrome is something else, eh? The world would be such a boring place if it was the way Americans see it
>>509252Then STFU, disingenuous "Leninhat" Russia hater. You prefer to point out the problems of a society running away from communism, despite was the west who accomplished this goal (Hillary laughing they achieved to make lose billions in Afghanistan, sanctioning countries in Europe not to trade with the USSR, controlling commodity markets with the dollar, etc), even being one of the societies with more class-consciousness in Europe as they are with their internal contradictions, which the west has a huge chunk of responsibility in that regard, if not more than the USSR leadership alone.
Your choir overlaps so much with the illiberal dot org Washignton think tank talking about all the "olligarchs" all the "nationalists" all the "facists" it is annoying. You don't and won't understand the Russian population.
Stay class-traitor.
First of all, imperialism isnt "muh invading countries". Imperialism is, as was described by Lenin in "Imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism", an economic system that appears as capitalism developes into monopoly capitalism and as capital becomes increasingly centralized into fewer and fewer hands. Explained simply, imperialism is the capitalist relation of extraction of surplus value (profits) from the workers by the capitalist class, but between countries. Why is the global south so impoverished while the US and EU are rich? Because the US and EU are extracting surplus value from the countries of the global south. Their natural resources are transformed into commodities by the workers of the global south, but the profits derived from that are stolen by the US and EU capitalist class. This is imperialism. Now why do we consider the multiple acts of US military aggression as imperialism? Not because the US simply invading someone for no reason would be imperialism, but because the reason the US does what it does is to expand and protect its imperialist system. Why was Yugoslavia targeted? Because US corporations wanted to get ahold of its natural resources to extract more profits, as demanded by capitalism. This is the same with any other US intervention.
However, Russias actions are not fueled by imperialism, since Russia, despite being a capitalist country, has not reached a sufficient monopoly capitalism as to become imperialist. Thus, the only reason Russia would invade Ukraine, would be to stop US imperialism, which wants to colonize Russia to extract its profits for US corporations. Even if Russia randomly decided to invade idk Poland for no reason, that wouldnt be imperialism, it would be expansionism at most.
>>509277A monopoly (from Greek μόνος, mónos, 'single, alone' and πωλεῖν, pōleîn, 'to sell') is as described by Irving Fisher, a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing. Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition to produce the good or service, a lack of viable substitute goods, and the possibility of a high monopoly price well above the seller's marginal cost that leads to a high monopoly profit. The verb monopolise or monopolize refers to the process by which a company gains the ability to raise prices or exclude competitors. In economics, a monopoly is a single seller. In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge overly high prices, which is associated with a decrease in social surplus.
More news:
>▪️ The President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, warned this Saturday that the escalation of tensions between Russia and the West in recent weeks could "reshape the entire international order", and could end up isolating Moscow in a way that is not known. seen since the time of the Soviet Union.
>▪️During the Munich Security Conference, the senior official accused Russia of having accumulated its troops on the border with Ukraine, as evidence that it is trying to "coerce" the European country, and declared that Moscow is carrying out an "attempt brazen to rewrite the rules of the international system.
>▪️ "The world has been watching in disbelief as we face the largest troop buildup on European soil since the darkest days of the Cold War," said Von der Leyen.
>▪️At the same time, she noted that "the Kremlin's dangerous way of thinking, which stems directly from a 'dark past', may cost Russia a prosperous future" and promised a "robust package of financial and economic sanctions" in case of any aggression
>>509264Wtf this is real
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ompundja_Constituency#PoliticsWhat kind of a piece of shit father did this poor guy have
At least he rebelled in the best way possible and joined SWAPO lol
>>509277yes but its way easier to get monopoly when the foreign companies are banned… and they dont really use those abroad, its internal monopoly
>>509281>it wouldn't resurgeyes it would, because ethnics tensions are mostly just a way economic tensions and contradictions are expressed in the places where its relevant. As long you have capitalism + diverse ethnicity, you will have ethnic tensions, once you're all together in a big socialist project you override that. Nation states were able to do this as well, but modern liberalism, financiarization and globalization massively reduced their power.
>>509277>Wat, more of russia's economy is dominated by monopolies than any other countryAgain with this lie.
The strategic sector and energetic are state-owned.
Putin reverted many of the neoliberal policies, something liberals in the west screeched hard since Putin and his circle arrived to power.
>>509269Of course the USA played a role in the USSR's destruction, however internal Khrushchevite revisionism also did this.
The Washington think tanks have no problems with the rulers of Russia. They're both capitalists.
>>509302>KhrushcheviteKruschev was a result of the west hating on the USSR.
>>509302>The Washington think tanks have no problems with the rulers of RussiaYou fucking retard, you are in a thread where the U.S./E.U. is threatening to reduce economy to "North Korea's" and you still repeat this shit.
CLASS TRAITOR >>509273Seems a strategy to not invade, not let Donbasians alone, and also deter Ukraine from using the UN blue helmets. And probably a form to expose the U.S. unwilling resolution to not solve things peacefully.
Seems a good strategy, and my prediction of shelling from outside the direct conflict is fading. Russia made its move. Let's see how the U.S. react.
>>509308See:
>>509286>>509311It's like NK didn't have a famine multiple times. LoL you don't care about the proletariat of the world,
class traitor, as long everyone else's does the struggle for you, dies or suffer, you are comfy that wouldn't be revisionism and o.k. to you. motherfucker, because you are comfy in your country you only act as a smugnorant russophobic ultra.
>>5092881000 hours in paint
Vladikim Pao-Din
>>509340Lol do you even know who's channel you are linking?
Nfkrz despises putin. He loves the west
>>509337damn I didn't know about this sounds really interesting
>>509340so they attacked him for basically being russian? so I was right. in the future if you speak mandarin or russian you will be lynched. this is the curse of chauvinism. I fucking hate being on this rock sometimes.
>>509347He has 1 million YouTube subscribers. When your channel is that big you will get hate from some people always.
That guy is an enormous liberal btw.
>>509342In your dream world, where you think everyone, but you are liberals, you believe "famines" are a term I am associating with deaths, you tard. In reality, they do suffer an overall food shortage, which fucking is a famine.
You want that for Russians, in your comfy armchair. And the suffering of other nations that rely on Russian capabilities, too.
CLASS TRAITOR >>509349You clearly just found this guys channel and never seen anything he puts out. He dedicates his videos about politics to shitting on Russia, Russia media and who is in power there.
His ideal world is Navalny takes power
>>509353lol, no you don't. don't start over again to say things you say you want, but you don't and won't, class traitor.
The fact that you want that Russians to suffer the same shit the DPKR suffered shows you care about no one else but to virtue signal some weird-ass orthodoxism with Leninism fixation. Kautsky would be proud of you.
>>509358How am I a class traitor when I support proper class war like civil war era Russia?
The Russian proletariat already has suffered more than Korea, at the hands of white guards in 1918-1920, fascists in 1941-1945, and their "own" bourgeoisie since 1991.
>>509360I am going to again reduce my answers, as Lenin said: Answer him with class-traitor, no other answer is possible to you, because each answer arises more answers from you, and that's a non-stop situation. With class-traitor answer is enough.
The fact that they developed Russia after the fall of the USSR shows you don't care about fighting west hegemony at all.
>>509367No, you don't class traitor.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SIPOVGINIRUSThis is how the people in charge managed to reduce the GINI coefficient.
Coincidentally to DPKR levels already:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=KRCope, seethe, dilate. Pick one.
>>509319Your feud against Leninhat is one of the most hilarious things ITT.
Imagine getting so riled up arguing against leninhat lol.
>>509333 (Unhinged rant:ON)
<I say this as someone this and thatGod how much i fucking despise this liberal lived experience fetishism: just shut the fuck up Karen idk how your shitty life has been up to now.
(Unhinged rant:OFF)
>>509385>Literally saying that North Korea is starving because of communism.Dunno you sound like the
CLASS TRAITOTERINO Here dude
Thread with lots of stuff: videos of separatist men signing up to fight, bombed house in Russian territory, lots of videos of today's Russian military tests, general reports of bombings and politician statements.
https://nitter.kavin.rocks/ASBMilitary/status/1495147308027199491#mStupidberg rejecting diplomacy and Minsk accords in favor of war:
>STOLTENBERG: “So, if the Kremlin’s aim is to have less NATO on its borders, it will only get more NATO. And if it wants to divide NATO, it will only get an even more united alliance.”https://nitter.kavin.rocks/ASBMilitary/status/1495077936885645326#m>>509402Yeh, the Texan in Donbas said is non-stop during the last hour.
Pic semi-unrelated.
>>509401>chechan spetsnazholy based
>>509403If he dies I will be sad
>>509395>>509397lol in two posts I get called a Maoist, Kautskyite and a Trotskyite.
I'm a Marxist Leninist.
>>509413TBH we're at a 2.5 in the
HAPPENING-CONPretty much to say that
Shit's about to Hit The Fan >>509408Oh, you deserve many names.
So Marxist, the prediction of nothingburger of yours failed. The EU ruling class is not uniform with Russia's ruling class.
It's a shame we are talking about lives being taken away to prove you wrong, but yeah, needs to be said loud another one:
pseud.
>>509413IMHO 3.5
Clearly more than 4 but still less than 3.
A further escalation could be the fatal push.
>>509426It doesn't have to be true, they just have to put it out there so years down the line Russians can go "but we were justified bro," not that this is different from what any other state would do
>>509429The Russians are waiting for the Ukrainians to escalate, then it's go time
>>509428Highest kek I love this webm
Who is the face used in all the Germoid memes?
>>509429>>509421>>509418>2.5>3>3.5Can we first agree on what these numbers even mean?
I guess 1 is nuclear war and 5 means basically nothing happens, but what would the numbers inbetween mean?
>>509427Nothing has happened. So what's the problem?
German capitalists want to keep buying gas from Russia and they rule the EU.
>>5094341-Nuclear war happened or is happening
2-Intense and open conventional conflict between powers of a certain relevance
3-Direct conflict between minor countries (es. Armenia vs Azerbaijan) or between proxies of major powers without the latter involvement
4-Tension heightened but still normal situation; sporadic minor clashes at most
5-All is quiet
This at least is my view on the matter
A gypsy Russian homosexual KGB oligarch professor and communist was teaching a class on Joseph Stalin, known genocider
"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Stalin and accept that he was the most highly-evolved being the world has ever known, even greater than Stepan Bandera!"
At this moment, a brave, patriotic, Ukrainian speaking Azov Battalion champion who had served 1500 tours of duty and understood the necessity of retaking the Crimea and fully supported all military decision made by the NATO stood up and held up a rock.
"Where did this rock come from?"
The arrogant professor smirked quite Jewishly and smugly replied "The Donetsk People's Republic, you stupid Ukrainian"
"Wrong. It’s been 5,000 years since God gave it to Ukraine. If it was from outside Ukraine and Russian claims, as you say, are true… then it should be a track suit now"
The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of The United Russia Party Platform. He stormed out of the room crying those communist crocodile tears.
The students applauded and all registered Right Sector that day and accepted Bandera as their national hero. A Літаюча свиня named "Zaporozhia" flew into the room and perched atop the Ukrainian Flag and shed a tear on the chalk. Державний Гімн України was sung several times, and God himself showed up and enacted a anti-Russian pogrom across the country.
The professor had wished so much that he had a Minsk Agreement to protect himself with, but he had violated it himself!
The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of the gay plague AIDS and was tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity.
Слава Україні
>>757309uh, hello based school?
>>509436I heard that they already do buy that gas, but the pipes run through Ukraine, and German government said they are willing to cancel NS2. So Germany is at least pretending to risk losing that gas if the pipes get sabotaged. But I'm not sure about that UA pipeline info.
https://twitter.com/YWNReporter/status/1495172211002466311According to this dude there are Russian columns 5-10km from Ukraine.
EXTREME caution is advised cause confirming this is nearly impossible.
>>509447 (me)
You can hear shelling in the distant background at one point.
>>508909>inb4 like i predicted us sends in token force but does nothingputin conquors eastern ukraine
west secures central ukraine but otherwise does nothing
west is humilated
>>509463The whole point was to kill Nordstream 2, idiot. They
want Putin to invade.
>>509463In this scenario NATO wins.
They get hundreds of km closer to Russia.
>>509465nordstream two is mostly done at this point, and germany has shown that they want it done
besides delays the fact is economically europe especially germany relies on gas. And usa due to its incompetence wont present an alternative.
mark my words russia germany is going to eventually just go through with it given time
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russias-gazprom-says-it-has-completed-nord-stream-2-construction-2021-09-10/>>509466while at the same time russia creates a buffer state in eastern ukraine
and at the same time humilates nato by showing its uselessness to the point european nations become increasingly disillusioned by nato
And start deciding to pursue its own eu military project which will divide europe further
>>509469Wha you describe turns into a win for Russia IF and only IF the NS2 starts working.
Otherwise the only winner will be the US, and everyone else will lose to some degree.
>>509468its all tough talk and words from politicions to satisfy voters. Realistically the us state knows that they cant do anything, besides send in a token force because ukraine is not afghanistan
>>509473>>509477and tbh im suprised you are trusting the words of politicions. Politicions love to say one thing because it appeals to their population. But words in the end do not change material reality or economic national self interest. Theres a reason why its been completed this far. If there was no chance of it being opened then the work wouldnt have been done so much to the point that if they decide to open it, it will automatically be open due to its completion
mark my words once the ukraine fiasco dies down in 3 to 5 years germany will open the nord steam pipeline
why because material reality truimphs over WORDS
>>509472it isnt approved yet but the fact that its been allowed to be completed as it is says something. If there was no chance for it to be opened then it would not have been completed this far.
>>509478>mfw (x1)>>509479Yeah, I do remember the shelling over the coasts of Cuba, and the gas pipelines being blown out.
Also, I do remember the serious threats of a superpower that not too often does threats, but when they do it are serious, by time
not the u.s.>mfw (x2) >>509479The frequency and consistency of pro-Western horseshit showing up, though, is rather weird.
Do glowies have nothing better to do?
>>509482>and tbh im suprised you are trusting the words of politicionsBecause the chancellor was very delicate into not fixing a position in the matter.
>But words in the end do not change material reality or economic national self interestYeah, but DiaMat says that ideology also modulates materialism, not necessarily they are mutually exclusive. Her words remain unchanged: They want to pay the price. Period. Unless we see the future, we remain for what we are seeing, which is the green light for the Ukrainian invasion and the unequivocal decision of Russia.
If Russia wants a U.N. solution, to shell from their borders or just invade, those are their options.
>>509492That falseflag caused the mobilization of the DPR and LPR to Russia of their children, women, and elderly, the call to arms of their leader, and a complete mobilization on their part.
If they believe it is not a falseflag, who are you to say it is not?
>>509486and the spd who is the larger power in the german government has shown to still have a somewhat netural stance cmpared to the green party.
plus the other party the spd is alligned to is the literal porkie party. And the porkie party is mainly concerned about economic gains
>>509489yes but what automatically causes a nation to act like they do is ultimately economic self interest. a lot of actions historically behind the ideological justifications for an action has mainly economic reasons
And sure they might try to find an alternative due to ideology but the problem is what alternative is there? the only ones that are mentioned are the turkey or israel one that the other anon showed is subpar
once again sure they might delay it but eventually they will face a wall that is material reality. Its like the time tinammin square happened and the westoids got all pissy and sanctiony. And then 3 years later forgot about it made more deals and china ascended into the wto
>>509493>There are definitely some furious German bourgeois right nowThere are. But this faction of capital does not have a decisive majority and transatlantic finance capital still dominates.
Scholz also put on a fake image when he went to Moscow. He backtracked everything and now we are in a situation where they openly tell us that things will get worse because of this dumb issue.
Every fifth child in Germany lives in poverty, that is also defined by not being able to turn on the heater, causing children to go to bed in sweaters or jackets. We need this fucking pipeline to open up, but the base of the Green Party doesn't care, they are proven to be in the highest income bracket of all parties.
Some more news:
UKRAINIAN ARMY CONTINUES MASSIVE SHELLING OF DONETSK AND LUHANSK
~ The Ukrainian army continuously fires 120mm mortars at the settlements of Zaitseve and Dokuchaevsk in the Donetsk region.
Thousands of shells were fired during the day, mainly at civilian infrastructure and residential areas in the districts of Gorlovka and Lugansk, currently under massive artillery fire by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Dozens have been reported only in the last hour.
A few hours ago, the car of the head of the People’s Militia of the DPR Denis Sinyakov was blown up by Ukrainian saboteurs in the center of Donetsk
At midnight on February 19, a critical element of the Luhansk People’s Republic infrastructure – the node of the Druzhba (Дружба) gas pipeline – exploded. The strong blast shook the whole of Lugansk.
Another explosion in Lugansk thundered in the Kamennobrodsky district. A gas station was blown up there.
A couple of hours before, two transformer substations in the Donetsk Republic were damaged by shelling. The Ukrainian army is deliberately destroying the infrastructure of Donetsk and Lugansk, thereby implementing the idea of the President of Ukraine of Zelensky’s “indomitable” nationality, that all residents of these regions who disagree with Ukrainian Government in Kiev should flee to Russia.
The President of Ukraine, Zelensky: “I think that if you live today in the territory of Donbass, temporarily occupied, and you think that: “Our cause is right, we are Russians, we are going to Russia, it’s a big mistake to stay in Donbass…” For the future of their children and grandchildren… it is already necessary to go and look for a place in Russia. It is right. Because there will be no civilization on this territory without Ukraine. Ukraine will grow upwards, Donbass in the occupied form will not grow anywhere. There will be no happiness for these people.”
At the same time, when there are massive shelling and terrorist attacks in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, US President Biden during a press conference accused the DPR and the LPR of violating the ceasefire and said that there is no evidence that Ukraine is preparing an attack.
From the link:
https://southfront.org/ukrainian-army-continues-massive-shelling-of-donetsk-and-luhansk/CONTAINS A LOT OF VIDEOS TO WATCH if someone likes to upload them here, go ahead.
>>509498Stunning stuff. Greens are truly astounding
>>509497Sounds like they are openly admitting it
>>509498SPD, CDU represent industrial capital. They will be very affected by rising energy prices. They are the type Chen praises, the type that wanna do business with Russia and China.
Greens and FDP represent finance capital. They don't care about energy prices, just jerking off the USA.
The media is controlled by transatlanticists. The SPD depends on Greens and FDP to rule. So far it is looking like the industrialists will bend to the financiers.
>>509391 {class traitor}
>>509393 {class traitor}
>>509408 {class traitor}
>>509436 {class traitor}
>>509470 {class traitor}
>>509480 {class traitor}
>>509505..?
Nothing. America is the hegemon. They've been since Suez Crisis. You don't fucking bargain with your vassal.
>>509454Anti-Revisionists (I am a Maoist and Leninhat is a Hoxhaist) are not a joke, Revisionists like yourself are the joke. This is because all you guys do is take sides in Inter-Imperialist Conflicts by shilling for the Capitalist, Social Imperialist and Social Fascist state of Dengist China and the Capitalist and Imperialist state of Putinist Russia, while Anti-Revisionists (particularly Maoists) are waging Protracted People's Wars in India, the Philippines, Turkey, and Peru.
>>509509Revisionist Dengists like yourself are the Class Traitors, not Leninhat.
>>509510But Russia has said multiple times they don't want to invade 🤔 why is shit if Russia hasn't asked for help for an intervention that they are saying they will not do?
What this posture says
>>509514I thought all the capitalists classes are equally even, all wanting the same, not possible all other ways around, etc, etc. what changed now, pseud?
>>509516>Anti-Revisionists (I am a Maoist and Leninhat is a Hoxhaist) are not a joke, Revisionists like yourself are the jokeI live in a fucking U.S. fully sanctioned country, you dimwit, I could leave my country years ago, live another easier life. Fuck you and fuck you your whole ascendency, and I hope the ghosts of the people affected by the U.S. imperialism touch your anus tonight.
>This is because all you guys do is take sides in Inter-Imperialist Conflicts by shilling for the CapitalistThen fucking start you revolution, don't lecture me about shit you think you know, fucking go do something about. NO? then STFU.
>>509516>>509515You both loudly, and repeatedly declare allegiance to ideas and end goals, then immediately condemn anyone for contemplating the actual, material steps necessary to achieve them, then reiterate loyalty to a mythical "silver bullet" solution (AKA Just Dew IT).
This is symptomatic of idealism. Both of you, clearly being reactionaries in the past, still suffer from it - thinking that holding the correct opinion will manifest itself into reality immediately. in reality, what you believe and what you hope for are completely irrelevant.
For this, you will both be harassed, ridiculed, and banned. You
are a joke, just like every idealist is.
>>509522While I don't share the aggressive undertones of this post I gotta say it has a point.
There's no need of restating ones own leanings every time.
Also Maoists (especially the Gonzalo kind) have a huge problem of idealism.
>>509513China's point of view is unchanged and it will continue to strongly affirm the supremacy of state sovereignty in foreign affairs. This is the a key basis of its Taiwan claim as a legitimate part of "One China", but moreover is one of the foundational ideas of Chinese policy arising from its formation as a modern state, which happened while the country was being invaded and carved apart by the Japanese empire and in the wake of with the forceable dismemberment of Chinese territory and the imposition of sovereignty denying extraterritorial regimes.
That said, China will almost certainly recognize Russia's concerns of NATO expansion and encirclement as legitimate.
>>509526Imagine if those striking workers cooperated with Russia and other anti-NATO states?
You see why there is a hatred towards “Tankies” now, don’t you?
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