[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/lgbt/ - LGBT

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender +
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)

Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1747681297671.jpeg (3.59 KB, 225x225, cat.jpeg)

 

I've been wondering if I may be trans for quite awhile now, but everything's so confusing and I feel like I havent gotten any closer to a clear answer.

I'm a dude, but I dont like masculinity at all. I want to be more feminine and look prettier. I have a lot of gripes with my body, however its nowhere near as much as what most people describe as body dysphoria. This may be because I already have a relatively feminine body for a guy, but I dont know.

The main problem I have with being a man is the male gender roles and place in society, not so much the body itself. I hate being expected to be aggresive, emotionless, and be into "manly" things. I feel like if gender roles and gender norms didnt exist at all then I wouldnt have a problem being a man, but they unfortunately do exist. So does that make me trans? Or does it not count because im not dysphoric enough about my body? Am I just faking these feelings and confusing myself?

Being trans isnt an inherent part your body or mind, but a decision you could make.
The only way to escape male gender roles is either finding a place among people who dont insist on them, or transition into a woman, and the latter makes the former much more easier.
As a man, prettiness is possible only while youthfully androgynous, the choice before you is either abandoning prettiness for handsomeness, or becoming a woman and extending the pretty stage by a decade or two.

>I'm a dude, but I dont like masculinity at all. I want to be more feminine and look prettier.
Probably some flavor of non-binary.
>I have a lot of gripes with my body, however its nowhere near as much as what most people describe as body dysphoria
Yeah that's normal, dysphoria isn't a prerequisite to being trans, it's just something that can happen if you also have depression, and while trans people face conditions that make them more prone to depression, it's not an inherent bundle.
>The main problem I have with being a man is the male gender roles and place in society,
That's valid, masculinity always kinda sucked in ways that varied by the means of production. Feminity has similar problems so be careful, but it's good to shed spooks when you know you don't like adhering to them.

>>1866
>Being trans isnt an inherent part your body or mind, but a decision you could make.
So much this! While the tranime meme is overblown, the desire to transition, as well as the pressure to conform to assigned gender, are direct products of your socialization and wider cultural exposure.
>>1865
Taking the plunge is certain to start a feedback loop you will hardly want or be able to exit, yet considering you're already dissatified with male sex roles, not doing so might bring you a lot of grief regardless later on. With time your hesitance will likely fade in whichever favor, i suggest you read some feminist literature to sort out your feelings on your current role in society and try interacting with other women whenever possible, that honestly helped me a lot.

>>1866
But I hear so many trans people say it was something inherent to them since they were born. I don't get it.

However, since prettiness is only possible for aslong as im youthfully androgynous I am highly considering taking estrogen, but then again that doesnt neccesarily make me a transwoman since many femboys take it too. So im still left unsure of my gender.

>>1867
Thanks, I don't think im non-binary. I want to have a gender, it's just I cant decide between which one.

>>1868
Any feminist literature in particular you would recommend? As for interacting with women, I don't interact much with either gender due to my severe social anxiety. I also fear I might seem like a creep or make women uncomfortable if I interact with them. I kinda feel like im not "worthy" to be a woman or to even be around them, if that makes any sense.

>>1869
>Any feminist literature in particular you would recommend?
If you're a regular on this board, you might have already heard of The Origin of the Family and Private Property, which is a popular materialist introduction to patriarchy. Personally i've read Dialectic of Sex, finding it very insightful, a few essays by Monique Wittig, Nyx Land's gender accelerationist manifesto and related writings. Starting with Simone de Beauvoir could also be worthwhile, if you're unsure just open the wikipedia entry on marxist feminism. Also read the SCUM manifesto, just for the hell of it.
>I am highly considering taking estrogen, but then again that doesnt neccesarily make me a transwoman since many femboys take it too.
I've had similar thoughts before. Ultimately you are part of a gendered society and there are limited ways to interact with it. All of us crave some form of outside recognition, here rejecting maleness doesn't leave you with many options. Especially with the importance of biology receding, to me being a woman means having a set of shared socially induced neuroses and occupying an axis of oppression.
>I kinda feel like im not "worthy" to be a woman or to even be around them
Right now you might feel like an observer, but you are a person to others are to you. Honestly you might creep someone out, take their hint then, but if not smile at them. You might both smile at each other, acting like mirrors to one another, socializing can be this unguarded exchange of sentiment. I think you will understand.

the problem is you can't answer an immaterial or abstract question of labels. instead, focus on something concrete, like the way you dress and speak. you can also look into the effects of hormones medically and biologically and ask yourself if that's what you want for your body
labels and classifications follow, don't lead with them

>>1869
>I want to have a gender, it's just I cant decide between which one.
Oh well agender is just a common type of non-binary, I'm technically nb but I'm close enough to woman that I kinda round off to the nearest whole number with it most of the time.

>>1917
Some of the effects of estrogen are effects I do want for my body, however some of the other effects I definitely dont want. Whether I take estrogen or not I will likely be left with a body that im not happy with.

>>1935
I've already started feeling insecure about the shape of my breasts, even though i barely have any, and it helps to remember no one can genuinely min-max their body (except through bourgeois surgery of course). There are only general body shapes you can grow into and maybe tone a with focused exercise. Breasts can be shaped like anything from apples to pears, lots of girls are a bit stocky or gangly without looking like literal cishons and much of how people perceive you has to do with context (or the lack thereof). To see bodies which aren't sanitized to death, maybe watch a few lesbian drama films or even just browse tumblr-ish art. If you want to, you will find beauty in others and yourself.

File: 1747857043253.jpg (82.49 KB, 500x500, unnamed.jpg)

>>1938
Thank you, I do struggle to imagine my body as being possible of being a womens body, but I just have to remember that my thinking is being affected by the sanitized body types portrayed in media.
I have actually tried to watch and read some lesbian media before, but whenever I did I just felt kinda gross because I felt like I was invading something that wasnt meant for me since I still think im a guy, atleast for now.
My main concerns about estrogen is that breast cancer runs in my family and I fear that if I develop breasts that I might also develop breast cancer too. My other main concern is that I dont want the effects estrogen has on genitalia.

File: 1747861924747.jpg (205.24 KB, 1280x1097, F1.large.jpg)

>>1939
>I felt like I was invading something
You don't immediately have to relate to someone in every way to benefit from their perspective, for example My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness is a good manga regardless of your sexual orientation. You yourself can think about how to respectfully approach a work and find enjoyment in it, if that makes sense.
>breast cancer
Studies in post-menopausal women indicate estrogen monotherapy having a comparatively low risk. Also as far as i understand, it's only one of the many health risks both sexes gain with increasing age and without functional healthcare you're likely screwed either way. Your risk of prostate and testicular cancer would be pretty much zero after transitioning, if that is any consolation.
>My other main concern is that I dont want the effects estrogen has on genitalia.
I don't really care for them myself, but afaik avoiding certain anti-androgens and having high-enough progesterone will preserve sexual function. If you've had high-school level biology classes, you should be competent enough to find some information on this.

>>1865
>>1868
>>1869
OP youre not a transhumanist.
You just hate machismo.
And that's fine

Why is it that tomboys can still be considered women for not conforming to their gender role stereotypes but to girls aren't?

>>1869
>But I hear so many trans people say it was something inherent to them since they were born. I don't get it.
You're overthinking it.

There are all sorts of trans people like:
>Knew they wanted to be the opposite gender from a young age, actively transitioned
>Knew they wanted to be the opposite gender from a young age, not enough to start transitioning right away
>Liked their gender at a young age, only decided they didn't later in life
>Know they want to be the opposite gender but choose to not transition (often don't consider themselves trans)
>Know they want to be the opposite gender but can't transition because of political or family reasons (often consider themselves trans)

So it's not so fixed and set in stone

Whether you are or aren't trans, is correlated to whether you do or don't transition, and how much that correlates is up to you

>>1869
>However, since prettiness is only possible for aslong as im youthfully androgynous I am highly considering taking estrogen, but then again that doesnt neccesarily make me a transwoman since many femboys take it too. So im still left unsure of my gender.
There is nothing wrong with being an HRT femboy, it's a valid gender and you're allowed to still be a guy who takes estrogen. It'd your body your choice, your gender, your life, only your opinion matters

>>1939
>My other main concern is that I dont want the effects estrogen has on genitalia.
Just use topical testosterone.

>>2004
It is not that there is anything wrong with being a HRT femboy, but it is femboy, there is no such thing as femman. I mean there are feminine men, but the technical term for those is faggot. Even with min-maxing your hormones, as you get closer to 30 the choice before you is binary, you are either a man or a woman.

>>2023
There's a social component as well. As you get older, remaining an unmasculine "boy" means acting socially stunted in the eyes of most people.

>>1939
Specifically commenting on the effects of HRT on genitalia. It definitely has an effect in reducing size and ease at which you can get erections.

If you don't masturbate/use your penis regularly it will atrophy and not work as it did previously.

I am nearly 3 years on HRT now and my penis is still functional but because I have a GF that I top and when shes not around I have to specifically remember to masturbate regularly.

>>1866
>Being trans isnt an inherent part your body or mind, but a decision you could make.
it's actually the opposite of that you stupid fucking ape

>>1868
> the desire to transition, as well as the pressure to conform to assigned gender, are direct products of your socialization and wider cultural exposure.
people like you should be hanged

>>2033
I'd also recommend taking a dick pill at least once a week, even if you are just going to masturbate with it

>>2034
For some.

>>2038
for everyone else conversion therapy would work

>>2034
Whatever etiology you attribute to it being trans clealry manifests in the form of a decision to transition.

>>2003
I kinda want to transition, but I also kinda dont at the same time. Why do I have to be so confused
>>2004
Youre right, but if I do hrt id eventually look just like a girl.
>>2023
This is probably what I struggle most with. Eventually id have to pick one, which is terrifying to me. I wish I could just be a femboy forever but unfortunately thats not possible. I would despise having the body of an old man, but being a woman just doesnt seem right to me. I feel like I dont belong to have a womans body.

File: 1748490103961.mp4 (73.67 KB, 400x310, spam.mp4)

femboys don't challenge gender norms any more than this does

>>2088
Nobody here was talking about whether they challenge gender norms. Stop trying to derail posts loser

>>1865
Petty as it might be, I like knowing there are other guys like me. I won't transition fully, but I'm partial to HRT. To me, the majority of men just look unpleasant. And I doubt it's entirely due to women being more concerned about their appearance

>>1938
>To see bodies which aren't sanitized to death
I wonder how much stress and unrealistic expectations anime characters have caused among people. Honestly, I don't blame the artist, only those sheltered so much they no longer know what an actual human body looks like in the flesh and bone.
Which kind of includes me too tbh.

I have my own thing going
>how my life went I think I might have been a lot better off if I was born a girl but I see no advantage to me in going outright trans girl particularly in my current age
>I never in past thought of myself as a girl though didnt exactly think of myself as a boy in any explicit way either. i didnt care about that but I always preferred the company of girls but social norms isolated and alienated me from being with girls even my own sister who would not spend time with me and more recently I sometimes notice I started occasionally thinking of myself like a girl other times just a guy
>I dont like my face even though I am considered attractive by masculine standards by some girls though i noticed most are bisexual, and it is especially bad now since signs of aging started hitting me after having a bad time for years and to make it worse i was avoiding looking at myself in the mirror so things changed without my gradual knowledge like my cheeks arent so full now for example changing my face shape
> I dont really like my body but I dont know what I want it to look like and what even is possible
>I think the concept of masculine and feminine are too arbitrary and vague. I dont care if my behavior is seen as masculine or feminine, just attractive and enjoyable for me.
>I just want clothes that look good on me and wish that norms were more flexible for males on the norm as it is for females so I could feel more free to experiment on looks
>I am more interested in being generally attractive and youthful so I wouldn't like altering anything in appearance if I become less attractive but I am not sure if I care more about my own view or the view of female romantic interests and I do favor more feminine forms or androgynous ones over masculine.
>I think the concept of cis, trans, and non binary are all spooks and only sometimes use such terms to more quickly communicate certain ideas.

File: 1748573879073.png (111.21 KB, 409x358, 1334247734152.png)

>>1865
You sound like me when I started transition. People say, just take E and figure it out later. 'It gets better'.
Well after doing injections for 30 months I wouldn't do it again.
1 month off now. But I had to try it. I got an amazing body out of it and felt better. Malefailed etc. But I had these thoughts for so long doubting if what I'm doing is right. I just kept putting them off. Doubling down on my transition. Until one day I was finally like. No I will be him once more. Properly. Being a man does not mean being aggressive or emotionless. It is the opposite. A true man has lots of heart and is genuine. Don't listen to expectations. I never had strong body dysphoria. I lurked /cd growing up n always wanted to transition and did it eventually and I'm glad I did. Whatever you pick you have to be sure. But there's nothing wrong with going back or trying what works for you. Now I regret losing my natural body and having tits. But I also feel seeing the other side made me a stronger person. I would never be able to live with myself if I didn't make a solid effort in trying it. In the end, none of this(gender) is real and you are the only person that can make the decision. Easier said then done. I think being trans doesn't always mean you have to transition though. There is no 'trans enough' or any of that. It doesn't 'not count'. It's a decision you make. Apologies for the word salad. Look at your future and also which decision/state of being would you fight for? And if you do, be damn sure you want to sterilize yourself.

>>1865
>i dont have dysphoria am i trans
No

>>2106
lol why would you make this story up?

>>2106
you sound cool i like you

>>2106
>be damn sure you want to sterilize yourself
That is a good point, HRT does have the potential to permanently sterilise you. Admittedly I don't want kids now or ever, so moot point as far as I'm concerned.

>none of this(gender) is real and you are the only person that can make the decision

Mate, gender dysphoria is a thing, for many of us it's either this or paying out the nose for surgery.

>>2145
it is very obviously a cissy with an agenda that doesn't know shit about the topic they are feigning personal experience in

>>2144
totally normal non-samefag post

also boxy is a child and posting pics of her is creepy as fuck

File: 1748714564283.jpg (798.92 KB, 1221x2181, lol.jpg)

>>2145
Yeah I could have worded that part better, I do agree dysphoria is real

>>2152

hm ? I'm not here to push an agenda or samefag. why are you worked up?

pic related

>>2155
This looks wrong, they're arranged like workplace supplies. Also why would you need three vials, why is there a label on one and why are there so many bottles?

>>2156
i would get 2 vials at a time, and used most of 2 already, the one with the label is from an older order, diy supplier stopped putting labels on them for whatever reason

also (most of) the other bottles are just other random vitamins, those are not hrt related i just keep them in same drawer. 'workplace supplies' made me lol. how else am I supposed to arrange them??

nb

if you have no intention to start hrt youre not trans

>>2155
>hm ? I'm not here to push an agenda or samefag. why are you worked up?
because taking injections you ordered off the internet for 30 months without even having "strong body dysphoria" and then deciding you want to be a man and writing some post about how gender is fake actually complete with chan memes seems like some shit a cis person that thinks trans people are fake and has no actual personal stake in the matter would say

>>2159
lol not true obviously, I mean I assume you mean people that have the potential to get on hrt but choose not to for whatever reason? what if they change their mind?

personally I would say that anyone that identifies as a gender different than they were assigned at birth is trans. but that it's probably not worth it to transition socially and medically/hrt for anyone who doesn't experience dysphoria

>>2157
>how else am I supposed to arrange them??
Having a dedicated medication drawer is the literal definition of bourgeois. I need to stash it in the same place as my tissues, soldering iron, office supplies and cheese grater.

File: 1748722493960.jpg (101.91 KB, 500x585, 1421914474536.jpg)

>>2160

That says a fair amount about you. But I don't think trans people are fake. I didn't do it for no reason. I also don't feel the need to detail my dysphoria to convince anyone of being tru™. That would be silly. Just sharing my experience. Enjoy your day.

>>2162
Fascinating



nb

>>2161
>you mean people that have the potential to get on hrt but choose not to for whatever reason?
obviously

>anyone that identifies as a gender different than they were assigned at birth is trans

trans as just vibes lol

>>2164
>That says a fair amount about you
or that you are avoiding addressing the point I made after you asked me to clarify it?

anyways if you really aren't a woman and aren't going to feel dysphoria in 3 months when you start growing facial hair and belly fat again and your hair falls out, then why would you have some personal knowledge on what is best for trans people? let alone to say that it's a decision people make?

like sure maybe you actually are just someone that wanted to experience some aspects of a female gender role and somehow spent 30 months on diy injections then decided you would rather be a man

how would that relate at all to someone who identifies as a different gender then they were assigned at birth and feels compelled to transition for different reasons like gender dysphoria rather than that "they want to try it out" or find they get some fetishistic thrill out of it?

another thing that pisses me off about this and I think this also applies to cis women misunderstanding trans women too, is that if a man decides to live life in a female gender role purely to satisfy some sexual urges or gain some sort of social resources, that is kind of like faking an identity that some people feel is an innate part of them and which brings with it hardship but that cannot be avoided due to being an inherent part of that person's identity, not a choice they made. which is some pomo shit anyways. same thing how it disturbs people when someone completely fakes aspects of their personality in order to meet certain ends socially or something

>>2155
not conceding this as evidence you are who you claim to be either, could justa sw ell be photoshopped

>>2166
>trans as just vibes lol
personal identity in contrast to the socially assigned one. calling it vibes doesn't address the basis for the argument I am making

transmedicalism is petite-bourgios gatekeeping. they care more about protecting their personal comfort being legally sanctioned under liberalism than universalizing their own temporary privilege to make it permanent.

>>2170
>they care more about protecting their personal comfort being legally sanctioned under liberalism than universalizing their own temporary privilege to make it permanent
how? and define transmedicalism?
I don't think that saying that there are people in society that need socially provided hrt in order to treat their gender dysphoria means that you agree we should do means testing for who is really trans. if there is people that "want but don't need" to take hrt for whatever reason then maybe under full communism that will be in the production quotas along with everything we produce to fulfill "wants". but for now while we are stuck with socially provided healthcare services and other basic needs provided socially (at best, in some capitalist countries). then it is important to advocate gender dysphoria as a medical condition in need of socially provided medicine, just as we do with diabetes or narcolepsy or whatever

>>2171
>saying that there are people in society that need socially provided hrt in order to treat their gender dysphoria
but thats not what was said they said if you dont have dysphoria you are not trans
>we should do means testing for who is really trans
i dont think anyone said this either.
>how?
because its limiting who is and isn't trans according to bourgeois science to protect their legal right to transition under capitalism and crying about how people who dont have the same experience as them are bad optics and might get their rights taken away. one poster even immediately goes into reinforcing transphobic bs about fetishes to distance themselves from the gross icky trans that normie liberals wont accept. its just pick me behavior acting like a candace owens uncle tom but for transes

>>2171
>but for now
and how is this any different than any other reform vs revolution argument. choosing half measures because they benefit the personal individually instead of going all the way. i wouldnt want to be trans under a system where i have to conform to some preconceived idea of what that means just to get medical care but these liberals see that as a good thing and "progressive". how can you consider yourself free when your freedom relies on separating you from your brothers and sisters

>>2173
>but thats not what was said they said if you dont have dysphoria you are not trans
>because its limiting who is and isn't trans according to bourgeois science to protect their legal right to transition under capitalism and crying about how people who dont have the same experience as them are bad optics and might get their rights taken away.
yeah I concur
>one poster even immediately goes into reinforcing transphobic bs about fetishes to distance themselves from the gross icky trans that normie liberals wont accept
who? me >>2167 ?
>>2175
it is not one or the other. also I think that trans people that don't experience gender dysphoria are still trans but it's also important to highlight that some people experience gender dysphoria and that taking hrt and transitioning is a part of curing that and being able to live a more happy healthy life

>>2145
> Mate, gender dysphoria is a thing, for many of us it's either this or paying out the nose for surgery.
what a liberal thing to say to someone pointing out the reality that gender isn't real. You can describe the same things without it. It's just not fitting in with societal expectations, not liking your appearance, and maybe having a mismatched internal body map in the brain similar to body integrity identity disorder. All these except the last are pretty typical of anyone; some people just respond differently than others.

File: 1748859900694.jpg (176.01 KB, 1440x1334, musso.jpg)

>>1868
>>1871
>>1869
>The Origin of the Family and Private Property, which is a popular materialist introduction to patriarchy
lol

engels was just dismantling the family as a unit of private property and inheritance

>Personally i've read Dialectic of Sex, finding it very insightful, a few essays by Monique Wittig, Nyx Land's gender accelerationist manifesto and related writings. Starting with Simone de Beauvoir

all philosophy trash, awesome 👍

suggesting to read feminist shit in a trans thread is even more hilarious

marxism starts from structure, all this garbage starts from myth. if you cant tell the difference, youre not doing analysis but vibes

>>2223
>philosophy trash
don't tell me you're one of those "anti-dialectic marxists"
>all this garbage starts from myth
you haven't read any of it have you? dialectic of sex for example examines the family unit, relating specific psychoanalytic concepts to their material meaning, penis envy for example as the desire for male power, and sketching the reproductive cycle sex roles, courtship and marriage serve.

>>2221
This 100%
These common things can manifest in many different ways depending on the person and their environment

>>2221
it is real. what the fuck do you even mean by "real"? this is like a toddler sticking their fingers in their ears and going "lalalala I can't hear you"
>It's just not fitting in with societal expectations, not liking your appearance,
how is that implicated in the reasons for people transitioning and developing gender dysphoria? how does that result in people transitioning their gender they were assigned at birth?
>and maybe having a mismatched internal body map in the brain similar to body integrity identity disorder
interesting, so what's the providence of that mismatched map between the body and mind? could that be an organic mismatch between hormonal sexing of the brain and the primary sexual organs in the womb as research (in a trans-denialism dominated field mind you) seems to indicate? Are you aware that there is a significantly increased change of gender dysphoria in the grandchildren of a formerly commonly used birth inducing agent? How about microplastics and no doubt countless other environmental factors effecting the endocrine system? If it is "maybe having a mismatched internal body map in the brain similar to body integrity identity disorder", then what is the solution you propose for this mismatch and gender dysphoria? just cope and don't think about it? explain what your your solution is and why it is the appropriate one
>>2233
100 percent you are samefagging
>These common things can manifest in many different ways depending on the person and their environment

like damn it's almost as if the entirety of the "transgenderism is fake/personal choices" position is entirely founded in gut feelings by non trans people and a handful of trans people influenced by this ideology which originates from existing social norms that are maintained and defended against contradictory ideas for the purpose of securing the roles of men and women in society as producers of future labour and securing the social and ideological constituents of the necessarily cisheteronormative capitalist society held afloat by such parties as the church and patriarchy, subconsciously absorbed by deputized chantard original opinion(tm) useful idiot agents of confusion

>>2221
soo tired of retarded pomo pseuds who confuse "social relation that has been shaped in a specific way by the current mode of production" with "THING NOT REAL"

>>2247
these losers want transness to be a fucking religion lmao. reducing trans politics to effectively become astrology

>>2170
>>2171
>>2173
jesus nobody even knows what a transmed is the word is just a bogeyman term to you retards. its just a way of demonising transsexuals for daring to centre actual transition in trans politics or suggest that putting pup/pups in your bio is not the same as actually being on hrt lol

the "med" refers to a medical diagnosis, not taking hrt, if it wasnt obvious enough. i do want hrt to be as easy as getting aspirin

>>2247
By real I mean the objectively outside the human mind. Gender in context of gender roles and identities is a social construct, a phantasm, a spook. It is only "real" in the social and mental context, an idea not a material thing. That isn't to say there can not be material causes to a sense of dysphoria as well though which was already explained.
> 100 percent you are samefagging
that isnt even me. I've been asleep.

>>2249
It's not confusion just linguistic simplification.

>>2106
Im not OP but im going through basically the same problem as them. Sterilization will be no problem for me, I dont want kids and think it would be morally wrong for me to have kids in this fucked up state of the world. Still, im unsure whether I should transition or not even after reading your post. I really dont want to permanently change my body, just to end up becoming a detransitioner or something like that. But I also dont wanna end up like John, 50. God, I just have no idea what to do.

>these replies
How long before discourse gets to a point where "being trans is just dressing up!" becomes the "woke" take lmao.

>>2250
>the "med" refers to a medical diagnosis
thats still the same thing, relying on bourgeois institutions to give you permission to be trans, and conceding that its a medical disorder. the whole brain scans thing is also transmedicalism and bunk science like looking for a "gay gene" literally phrenology tier

>>2266
nobody is doing that shit here illiterate retard, stop wanting being trans to become just vibes you philosopher wannabe lobotomite

>>2267
incoherent try again

>>2268
i already said youre illiterate!

File: 1748929459021.jpg (36.49 KB, 640x640, 1498397135844.jpg)

>>2266
I don't give a shit WHY you transition, so if somebody actually just transitions because they simply want to signal their general distaste for assigned gender rather than because they actually have crippling dysphoria or anything, that's totally cool, but just saying you're not "ok" and doing absolutely nothing about that is meaningless in any practical terms. It certainly doesn't materially change a thing about their life. You are simply not living your life as a trans person.

If someone changes pronouns and is otherwise identical to сis people, why should I consider that a "transition"? People change their pronouns and think that's all it takes. Our struggles and experiences are not the same. The "community" has always been fictional with little overlap in real life, anyway.

>>2270
>Our struggles and experiences are not the same.
Thats what I said, except you are using it to deny other peoples experiences.
>The "community" has always been fictional with little overlap in real life, anyway.
Then why are you so defensive about who gets to be in the "community"?
>People change their pronouns and think that's all it takes.
kinda weird. idk if you have had some kind of bad encounter with people doing this but its not really what I am talking about. there are a lot of reasons people might not transition. even besides people not being able to reliably access medication in the developed world, not every country has access to the same things, and not everyone who does is willing to risk permanent lifelong reliance on a system that is becoming increasingly broken, and not everyone is in a safe living situation to do so. But their struggles are related and tied to communism if they are working class, which is why trans rights are human rights, and human rights cannot be guaranteed without proletarian dictatorship.

Im tying the struggle to a universal and you are splitting according to individualism, basing your position on access under capitalism.

>>2270
>why should I consider that a "transition"?
im not saying you should, im saying that is textbook transmedicalism. gender dysphoria is a medical disorder and the treatment is transition. whereas transgender means "on the other side" of gender, like how transalpine means on the other side of the alps. someone who identifies as the gender opposite to their assigned gender at birth, or their apparent or assumed gender, is also transgender, even if they dont transition. the way it was explained to me was through the term gender euphoria. were people have positive feelings towards being treated as the opposite gender in social situations and it is not always tied to gender dysphoria for all people in all cases. saying they have to transition sounds to me like a new version of saying you arent really trans if you dont pass.

File: 1748933065821.gif (1.45 MB, 498x374, truth-nuke.gif)

>>2270
>The "community" has always been fictional with little overlap in real life, anyway.

File: 1749155518251.png (319.89 KB, 780x717, hips pad.png)

who needs hrt when you got this

>>2376
If you think you need this, what you really need to do is hit the gym

https://www.reddit.com/r/StrongCurves/wiki/index/

>>2376
>the upper part look like shota shit
>not men or bara men
gay
the hip pad makers are cowards
give me big bara men in the animu cover

>>2443
Seeing my swelled muscles after workout makes me regret existing

t. cis m

>>2447
Bara is often roided out jocks

>>2455
you say like that's a bad thing
give me adult men.

>>1865
I'm like 80% sure I "agree" with my birth-assigned gender but I'm more comfortable interacting with trans girls on the internet than anyone else and I have no idea why.

>>2492
just dont become one of those 'they/them non-binary' cis folks lol

>>2492
Same. I am a straight man, but I used to post on /lgbt/, subreddits it spawned, follow bunch of trans women on blsky and twitter. They seem nice, interesting, I feel sense of kinship with them, I wish I was one of them, like they have soul and stuff.

>>2519
Maybe suffering makes your soul larger? I'm kidding, if you don't mind me asking anon you ever dated a trans woman? Seems to me like trans women tend to understand men better, at least more often than cis women.

>>2520
No, I dont know any I dont think they would like me. Them understanding men wouldnt help, because I dont really fit in with most men, or anyone else for that matter.

File: 1749944242119.jpg (364.74 KB, 2048x1152, GtOcP_aWsAAzi4E.jpg)

Whenever I wonder if I'm trans I look at things like this and be like nah I'm good actually.

>>2567
damn trans make your handriting SUCK

>>2568
It's from a transphobic repper actually.

>>2023
The difference between "boy" and "man" is purely aesthetics. Alot of "masculine" stuff is basically rehashed juvenile shit with a more "stern" impression.

>>2568
Bruh, that handwriting is anything but shitty.
I've seen adults write in sloppy scribbles.

>>2461
Most men don't look like that.
It's just a western thing to promote to cope with midlife crisis from lack of proper diet and exercise.
Also it's "adult male".
Saying "adult men" is like saying "rooster chicken".

>>2152
>it is very obviously a cissy with an agenda that doesn't know shit about the topic they are feigning personal experience in

This sounds like seething.

>>>2144

>totally normal non-samefag post
>also boxy is a child and posting pics of her is creepy as fuck

Posting face pics of young people is now considered pedophilia? Im starting to think that accusations of "pedophilia" is just fear of aging.
I mean, millennials and zoomers already whine about feeling old in their late twenties/early thirties and lack the maturity expected at that age.

>>2170
>>2250
>jesus nobody even knows what a transmed is

its hard to take "transmedicalism" seriously when it means anything from gatekeeping HRT to "trans person i dont like" tbh

>>2625
its not gatekeeping access to HRT its its saying that trans have to be on HRT which in most places requires a medical diagnosis. its really not hard to understand. its a less extreme version of you have to have surgery to be really trans but follows the same principle.

seems like people are just upset because they understand trans through transmedicalism and think its not real if gender is just a social construction, so they appeal to medical "science" for justification. its just regurgitating bioessentialism and is the same argument as people screeching about chromosomes. both cis and trans transmedicalists want to pin gender down to a physical object because correctly understood the existence of trans undermines their own univestigated identity which they want to have a solid grounding. but identity doesn't have a solid grounding its entirely social.

>>2627
>which in most places requires a medical diagnosis
lol what is DIY

if you dont have money then its fine, but if you dont plan on undergoing HRT at all then its literally just make believe and pretending pronouns are some magic fae words lmfao

>>2628
>pretending pronouns are some magic fae words lmfao
this response just confirms what i said applies to you. gender identity is entirely subjective its not defined by an external object. yes this makes it extremely nebulous, not just for trans people and not with just gender but for all identity.

>>2159
>>2106
>Trans is not about transitioning

Not to sound like a dick, but isn't trans gender about like wanting to transition? It's in the name.
IDK why radlibs want cis folk to bend over backwards for trans folk when the community cannot make up their mind about how to define their own situation.

You say gender is a spook.
But then that would mean trans is a spook as well.

I mean >>2258 sounds more like someone wanting cosmetic surgery but not wanting to deal with the consequences of such a thing but cannot tolerate the natural biochronological process.

>>2270
You're right on the money

>>2629
>gender identity is entirely subjective
This comes dangerously close to the "born in the wrong body" argument, which is actual idealism, so let me share a more dialectical approach:
A man or woman is something you become in a social context, based on appearance and social behavior. To be transgender necessarily means to want to take the role of the opposite sex, yet the inability to do so doesn't need to be a personal failing. While some communities ask people about pronouns and such, in most social settings they depend on passing and passing as such by doing hrt and shit would be the goal, if you wanted to continue engaging with cissiety or have already internalized some of its notions about gender (which is most people over the age of 6).

>>2630
> but isn't trans gender about like wanting to transition? It's in the name.
no
>>2274

>>2632
>This comes dangerously close to the "born in the wrong body"
i dont see how
>something you become in a social context
yeah
>based on appearance and social behavior
dunno about that. your externalizing identity again.
theres an interplay to social things but if were really being dialectical the influence is both internal as it is external but the identity itself is internal. foundationally it is a self-identification. passing is more about validation or even classification, which isn't really identity in the same sense. appearance and social behavior will influence the development of a persons self-identity but its not what determines it. people can be closeted and still identify as trans, just like men can have sex with men and not identify as gay. identity is pretty arbitrary which is why idpol is uh… not so great

like a worker can identify as/with capitalist/capitalism without owning capital. is this idealism? i dont really care. the fact that they identify as a capitalist still has material influences and is something we should investigate. we deal with the world as it is not how we imagine it to be

>>1866
I've decided to be trans today. 🤗
Tomorrow I'll be straight tho. 🫤

>>2634
>being dialectical
pseuds are so annoying when they pretend to know what theyre talking about lol

>>2629
good thing nobody takes you vibes and aura tards seriously anyway

>>2635
>we deal with the world as it is not how we imagine it to be
<this is why you dont even need to transition to be trans, the literal meaning of the word
peak retardation

>>2634
>people can be closeted and still identify as trans
For anyone but the most chronic boymoders, being closeted is fundamentally an unwanted condition getting in the way of recognition. Transmedicalist do have a point: People not actively transitioning doesn't discount their inner lives, yet for most this means their desires are unrealized. Identity only realizes itself by being recognized, as any dialectitian should know.
>men can have sex with men and not identify as gay
Yeah, i've heard of straight young boys jerking each other off. Still moids can't just do gay things without consequences. As soon as they give other men the ick by "acting gay", especially in an environment as bleak as school, they become "the gay kid" in everyones eyes.

>>2639
>the literal meaning of the word
thats not what the word means

>>2640
>Identity only realizes itself by being recognized
ok i havent read enough freud or whatever what is this from

>>2637
The post is responding to someone who brought up dialectics first. Please provide an alternative or elaborate.

>>2642
google master-slave dialectic

>>2642
>>2643
philosophy tards who believe dialectics is an identity or a method or some magic way to reveal the inner workings of reality lmfao

>>2634
Cissexuals that are calling oneself "he/they" or whatever neopronoun they chose that week does not mean they interact with the world any differently to any other cissexual guy.

>>2640
>Transmedicalist do have a point: People not actively transitioning doesn't discount their inner lives
Transmeds say you should only get HRT if you got a medical diagnosis. What the fuck are you even talking about.

File: 1750056617089.jpg (10.97 KB, 474x213, 745086954.jpg)

>uh yeah i transitioned this is my final presentation too btw

>>2646
>does not mean they interact with the world any differently
yes that is my point too

>>2641
you dont get to dictate what trans means when you just pulled some vibes-based shit out of your ass about how trans can mean literally whatever you want

>>2644
I would think that recognition as a gender other than the one a person identifies as would also be realization in this sense.

>>2649
it means transgender not transition

>>2646
>>2648
go on grindr for 5 mins and youll discover many men lie about their gender expression too


>>2649
>vibes-based shit
>>2639
>vibes and aura
i dont understand how this is your conclusion. its not what im saying at all

File: 1750056928584.png (621.72 KB, 565x820, 1912908395524558889.png)

This is why ceding ground on "sex vs gender" just to protect the feelings of cissexuals who call themselves "genderspicy" was a mistake, by the way. Trans women ARE, in fact, biological women (insofar as that phrase even has a reasonable definition, at least).

>>2004
>femboy, it's a valid gender
lmao what is meant by "valid"? absolutely nonsense term

probably bad to make an ""identity"" out of a porn category that fetishizes youth too btw. probably not great overall if i had to guess

>>2646
>Transmeds say you should only get HRT
Then i meant something more like bioessentialism-lite.
>What the fuck are you even talking about.
Saying it is "valid" not to transition sidelines the fact that, as you said, it is often the result of not being able to transition. It's like the fat people debate, where some in the body positivity camp insist being morbidly obese is totally healthy or even desireable and their existence is used to discount valid criticism of diet culture and lookism.

>This is why ceding ground on "sex vs gender" was a mistake
i agree lol
but because sex is just as arbitrary as gender

File: 1750057483689.png (85.22 KB, 1208x213, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2644
where is the external recognition by others part?

>>2659
watch out theyre gonna bring up some idiot academic to back up their bullshit

>>2658
midwits like you think the worst thing that happens to trans people is people being rude to us sometimes like sorry nobody cares about people who only socially transition except for fellow bored middle classers

>>2661
not at all i just think that essentializing transness instead of seeing it as the harbinger of sex/gender as made obsolete by capitalism is fundamentally reactionary and reinforces everything negative instead of providing a framework to explain its overcoming which we are currently in the middle of as a society

>>2660
i actually thought desire was some lacan thing but its right there in hegel. as i understand it the slave comes to self-recognition as fully human by overcoming the denial of such by his master. so precisely not through external validation. the same way a trans person might come to know themselves through identification with others of the gender opposite of their assigned one

>>2663
>precisely not through external validation
But still the process is contingent on seeking external validation and the eventual realization of ones identity doesn't represent a complete regression towards the initial form of desire, the difference to the object of desire is negated by self-consciousness changing as much as desire. Recognizing yourself as the gender you want to be is an objective process and while its completion represents a rejection of cisgender norms, the external notions opposing it need to be sublated within, preserved by differing degrees. Therefore i would argue the majority of trans people who haven't transitioned have yet to realize their identity.

>>2664
Sure, but just as you said they are still trans people. Even when they realize their "true" identity the have just arrived at the contradictory point where cis people start.
There is no resolution. Identity is constantly broken down and rebuilt again throughout a persons life from child, to student, adult, parent, worker, friend, teacher, moving to a new city or country, learning a new language etc.
Self-identity is not something you become, its not that you become trans and then you are a trans being, its a process of trans becoming. The point is that cis becoming is no less contradictory or in someway more static or "real". Is a woman the human that produces the larger gamete? What about menopause?

>>2666
Trips of truth! "anti-idpol" hazcels btfo

>>2633
Then trans is a spook

>>2655
>Trans women are in fact biological women

Biological as in born as women?

>>2093
>Honestly, I don't blame the artist, only those sheltered so much they no longer know what an actual human body looks like in the flesh and bone. Which kind of includes me too tbh.

This is a rare moment of self awareness.
People often like to blame social media or whatever for low self esteem. But the truth is, it's not the media formats themselves. It's just that these people have inherently no self value and so cannot be bothered to take any sense of responsibility.

I think banning social media to protect "impressionable minds" is merely a bandaid over a third degree burn.

>>2666
Identity is relative.
Just like all things in the cosmos.

>>2658
If sex is as arbitrary as gender, why aren't we referring to middle aged neck beards as women?

another good reminder that philosophizing does not have any actual political relevance

>>2678
>Then trans is a spook
yes, gender is a spook
>relative
Identity is relative in the sense that it is a social relation, determined by material conditions, but that doesn't make it arbitrary, it makes it more concrete.
>why aren't we referring to middle aged neck beards as women
What is arbitrary is the classification, not its determination. It is human activity that makes the classification meaningful, but where the lines are drawn are historically contingent on the society they exist in and its mode of production. Like how the psuedoscientific category of race only comes into existence after the enlightenment and capitalism, but then the superstructure changes the base, which in turn changes the superstructure, which makes race a real abstraction just like value or money. Race is a social fact, not biological.

But it doesn't stop there, the whole point here is that these identities are not static external objects but social constructs that are constantly changing, and the industrial revolution undermines the meaning of gendered differences.

Under capitalism even identity becomes commodified, something you consume. Anyone can be anything depending on what they buy, but consumption is not self determination. And for Marx, unlike Hegel, this is not true freedom through mutual recognition under a rational state, because a state is an organ for the oppression of one class by another.

The only universal identity under capitalism is the worker, and the emancipation of other identities depends on the universal emancipation of that class.

It is not purchasing medical interventions that concretizes the identity through mutual recognition, any more then buying a truck makes a real man, it is the overthrow and restructuring of the whole order of class society. It is not the individual act that liberates, but the society that makes choice freely accessible.

File: 1750134663560.png (354.09 KB, 693x651, 1749526745903n.png)

>I've been wondering if I may be trans for quite awhile now, but everything's so confusing and I feel like I havent gotten any closer to a clear answer.

>I'm a dude, but I dont like masculinity at all. I want to be more feminine and look prettier. I have a lot of gripes with my body, however its nowhere near as much as what most people describe as body dysphoria. This may be because I already have a relatively feminine body for a guy, but I dont know.


>The main problem I have with being a man is the male gender roles and place in society, not so much the body itself. I hate being expected to be aggresive, emotionless, and be into "manly" things. I feel like if gender roles and gender norms didnt exist at all then I wouldnt have a problem being a man, but they unfortunately do exist. So does that make me trans? Or does it not count because im not dysphoric enough about my body? Am I just faking these feelings and confusing myself?

File: 1750151305214.jpg (33.5 KB, 452x579, die.jpg)

Either take estrogen or fuck off.

>>2710
>conform to gender norms under threat of violence
wonder if there's a term for this…

File: 1750182200132.jpg (474.55 KB, 1080x986, (you) illiterate retard.jpg)

>>2721
do you mean not conforming to the regime of gender itself? if so, then transitioning IS pretty clearly "gender non conforming"

>>2721
>>2722
like under particularly regressive standards a girl liking sport could be considered "gender non-comforming," but it wouldnt make her trans :) but on the other hand if youre talking about actually defying gender itself then medically transitioning is the most GNC thing one can do

its such a vague term as to be nonsense when presented without elaboration, something radlibs absolutely love to do

>>2721
>conforming to gender norms is when you go against your ASAB
Did you really think this was a smart thing to say?

>>2722
>>2723
Fucking based.

File: 1750186263137.jpg (117.09 KB, 1080x1095, GtpJqA5X0AAAgR_.jpg)


>>2722
>>2723
>>2725
Yes, conforming to gender norms is conforming to gender norms, even if that is not the gender you were assigned (or even the dominant ones). Think.
Cute that all three of you omit the 'under threat of violence bit'. Hmm…
>Did you really think this was a smart thing to say?
Did you think your response was?


Unique IPs: 58

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]