/lgbt/ - LGBT

Being trans isnt an inherent part your body or mind, but a decision you could make.
The only way to escape male gender roles is either finding a place among people who dont insist on them, or transition into a woman, and the latter makes the former much more easier.
As a man, prettiness is possible only while youthfully androgynous, the choice before you is either abandoning prettiness for handsomeness, or becoming a woman and extending the pretty stage by a decade or two.

>I'm a dude, but I dont like masculinity at all. I want to be more feminine and look prettier.
Probably some flavor of non-binary.
>I have a lot of gripes with my body, however its nowhere near as much as what most people describe as body dysphoria
Yeah that's normal, dysphoria isn't a prerequisite to being trans, it's just something that can happen if you also have depression, and while trans people face conditions that make them more prone to depression, it's not an inherent bundle.
>The main problem I have with being a man is the male gender roles and place in society,
That's valid, masculinity always kinda sucked in ways that varied by the means of production. Feminity has similar problems so be careful, but it's good to shed spooks when you know you don't like adhering to them.

>>1866
>Being trans isnt an inherent part your body or mind, but a decision you could make.
So much this! While the tranime meme is overblown, the desire to transition, as well as the pressure to conform to assigned gender, are direct products of your socialization and wider cultural exposure.
>>1865
Taking the plunge is certain to start a feedback loop you will hardly want or be able to exit, yet considering you're already dissatified with male sex roles, not doing so might bring you a lot of grief regardless later on. With time your hesitance will likely fade in whichever favor, i suggest you read some feminist literature to sort out your feelings on your current role in society and try interacting with other women whenever possible, that honestly helped me a lot.

>>1866
But I hear so many trans people say it was something inherent to them since they were born. I don't get it.

However, since prettiness is only possible for aslong as im youthfully androgynous I am highly considering taking estrogen, but then again that doesnt neccesarily make me a transwoman since many femboys take it too. So im still left unsure of my gender.

>>1867
Thanks, I don't think im non-binary. I want to have a gender, it's just I cant decide between which one.

>>1868
Any feminist literature in particular you would recommend? As for interacting with women, I don't interact much with either gender due to my severe social anxiety. I also fear I might seem like a creep or make women uncomfortable if I interact with them. I kinda feel like im not "worthy" to be a woman or to even be around them, if that makes any sense.

>>1869
>Any feminist literature in particular you would recommend?
If you're a regular on this board, you might have already heard of The Origin of the Family and Private Property, which is a popular materialist introduction to patriarchy. Personally i've read Dialectic of Sex, finding it very insightful, a few essays by Monique Wittig, Nyx Land's gender accelerationist manifesto and related writings. Starting with Simone de Beauvoir could also be worthwhile, if you're unsure just open the wikipedia entry on marxist feminism. Also read the SCUM manifesto, just for the hell of it.
>I am highly considering taking estrogen, but then again that doesnt neccesarily make me a transwoman since many femboys take it too.
I've had similar thoughts before. Ultimately you are part of a gendered society and there are limited ways to interact with it. All of us crave some form of outside recognition, here rejecting maleness doesn't leave you with many options. Especially with the importance of biology receding, to me being a woman means having a set of shared socially induced neuroses and occupying an axis of oppression.
>I kinda feel like im not "worthy" to be a woman or to even be around them
Right now you might feel like an observer, but you are a person to others are to you. Honestly you might creep someone out, take their hint then, but if not smile at them. You might both smile at each other, acting like mirrors to one another, socializing can be this unguarded exchange of sentiment. I think you will understand.

the problem is you can't answer an immaterial or abstract question of labels. instead, focus on something concrete, like the way you dress and speak. you can also look into the effects of hormones medically and biologically and ask yourself if that's what you want for your body
labels and classifications follow, don't lead with them

>>1869
>I want to have a gender, it's just I cant decide between which one.
Oh well agender is just a common type of non-binary, I'm technically nb but I'm close enough to woman that I kinda round off to the nearest whole number with it most of the time.

>>1917
Some of the effects of estrogen are effects I do want for my body, however some of the other effects I definitely dont want. Whether I take estrogen or not I will likely be left with a body that im not happy with.

>>1935
I've already started feeling insecure about the shape of my breasts, even though i barely have any, and it helps to remember no one can genuinely min-max their body (except through bourgeois surgery of course). There are only general body shapes you can grow into and maybe tone a with focused exercise. Breasts can be shaped like anything from apples to pears, lots of girls are a bit stocky or gangly without looking like literal cishons and much of how people perceive you has to do with context (or the lack thereof). To see bodies which aren't sanitized to death, maybe watch a few lesbian drama films or even just browse tumblr-ish art. If you want to, you will find beauty in others and yourself.

>>1938
Thank you, I do struggle to imagine my body as being possible of being a womens body, but I just have to remember that my thinking is being affected by the sanitized body types portrayed in media.
I have actually tried to watch and read some lesbian media before, but whenever I did I just felt kinda gross because I felt like I was invading something that wasnt meant for me since I still think im a guy, atleast for now.
My main concerns about estrogen is that breast cancer runs in my family and I fear that if I develop breasts that I might also develop breast cancer too. My other main concern is that I dont want the effects estrogen has on genitalia.

>>1939
>I felt like I was invading something
You don't immediately have to relate to someone in every way to benefit from their perspective, for example My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness is a good manga regardless of your sexual orientation. You yourself can think about how to respectfully approach a work and find enjoyment in it, if that makes sense.
>breast cancer
Studies in post-menopausal women indicate estrogen monotherapy having a comparatively low risk. Also as far as i understand, it's only one of the many health risks both sexes gain with increasing age and without functional healthcare you're likely screwed either way. Your risk of prostate and testicular cancer would be pretty much zero after transitioning, if that is any consolation.
>My other main concern is that I dont want the effects estrogen has on genitalia.
I don't really care for them myself, but afaik avoiding certain anti-androgens and having high-enough progesterone will preserve sexual function. If you've had high-school level biology classes, you should be competent enough to find some information on this.

>>1865
>>1868
>>1869
OP youre not a transhumanist.
You just hate machismo.
And that's fine

Why is it that tomboys can still be considered women for not conforming to their gender role stereotypes but to girls aren't?

>>1869
>But I hear so many trans people say it was something inherent to them since they were born. I don't get it.
You're overthinking it.

There are all sorts of trans people like:
>Knew they wanted to be the opposite gender from a young age, actively transitioned
>Knew they wanted to be the opposite gender from a young age, not enough to start transitioning right away
>Liked their gender at a young age, only decided they didn't later in life
>Know they want to be the opposite gender but choose to not transition (often don't consider themselves trans)
>Know they want to be the opposite gender but can't transition because of political or family reasons (often consider themselves trans)

So it's not so fixed and set in stone

Whether you are or aren't trans, is correlated to whether you do or don't transition, and how much that correlates is up to you

>>1869
>However, since prettiness is only possible for aslong as im youthfully androgynous I am highly considering taking estrogen, but then again that doesnt neccesarily make me a transwoman since many femboys take it too. So im still left unsure of my gender.
There is nothing wrong with being an HRT femboy, it's a valid gender and you're allowed to still be a guy who takes estrogen. It'd your body your choice, your gender, your life, only your opinion matters

>>1939
>My other main concern is that I dont want the effects estrogen has on genitalia.
Just use topical testosterone.

>>2004
It is not that there is anything wrong with being a HRT femboy, but it is femboy, there is no such thing as femman. I mean there are feminine men, but the technical term for those is faggot. Even with min-maxing your hormones, as you get closer to 30 the choice before you is binary, you are either a man or a woman.

>>2023
There's a social component as well. As you get older, remaining an unmasculine "boy" means acting socially stunted in the eyes of most people.

>>1939
Specifically commenting on the effects of HRT on genitalia. It definitely has an effect in reducing size and ease at which you can get erections.

If you don't masturbate/use your penis regularly it will atrophy and not work as it did previously.

I am nearly 3 years on HRT now and my penis is still functional but because I have a GF that I top and when shes not around I have to specifically remember to masturbate regularly.

>>1866
>Being trans isnt an inherent part your body or mind, but a decision you could make.
it's actually the opposite of that you stupid fucking ape

>>1868
> the desire to transition, as well as the pressure to conform to assigned gender, are direct products of your socialization and wider cultural exposure.
people like you should be hanged

>>2033
I'd also recommend taking a dick pill at least once a week, even if you are just going to masturbate with it

>>2034
For some.

>>2038
for everyone else conversion therapy would work

>>2034
Whatever etiology you attribute to it being trans clealry manifests in the form of a decision to transition.

>>2003
I kinda want to transition, but I also kinda dont at the same time. Why do I have to be so confused
>>2004
Youre right, but if I do hrt id eventually look just like a girl.
>>2023
This is probably what I struggle most with. Eventually id have to pick one, which is terrifying to me. I wish I could just be a femboy forever but unfortunately thats not possible. I would despise having the body of an old man, but being a woman just doesnt seem right to me. I feel like I dont belong to have a womans body.

femboys don't challenge gender norms any more than this does

>>2088
Nobody here was talking about whether they challenge gender norms. Stop trying to derail posts loser

>>1865
Petty as it might be, I like knowing there are other guys like me. I won't transition fully, but I'm partial to HRT. To me, the majority of men just look unpleasant. And I doubt it's entirely due to women being more concerned about their appearance

>>1938
>To see bodies which aren't sanitized to death
I wonder how much stress and unrealistic expectations anime characters have caused among people. Honestly, I don't blame the artist, only those sheltered so much they no longer know what an actual human body looks like in the flesh and bone.
Which kind of includes me too tbh.

I have my own thing going
>how my life went I think I might have been a lot better off if I was born a girl but I see no advantage to me in going outright trans girl particularly in my current age
>I never in past thought of myself as a girl though didnt exactly think of myself as a boy in any explicit way either. i didnt care about that but I always preferred the company of girls but social norms isolated and alienated me from being with girls even my own sister who would not spend time with me and more recently I sometimes notice I started occasionally thinking of myself like a girl other times just a guy
>I dont like my face even though I am considered attractive by masculine standards by some girls though i noticed most are bisexual, and it is especially bad now since signs of aging started hitting me after having a bad time for years and to make it worse i was avoiding looking at myself in the mirror so things changed without my gradual knowledge like my cheeks arent so full now for example changing my face shape
> I dont really like my body but I dont know what I want it to look like and what even is possible
>I think the concept of masculine and feminine are too arbitrary and vague. I dont care if my behavior is seen as masculine or feminine, just attractive and enjoyable for me.
>I just want clothes that look good on me and wish that norms were more flexible for males on the norm as it is for females so I could feel more free to experiment on looks
>I am more interested in being generally attractive and youthful so I wouldn't like altering anything in appearance if I become less attractive but I am not sure if I care more about my own view or the view of female romantic interests and I do favor more feminine forms or androgynous ones over masculine.
>I think the concept of cis, trans, and non binary are all spooks and only sometimes use such terms to more quickly communicate certain ideas.

>>1865
You sound like me when I started transition. People say, just take E and figure it out later. 'It gets better'.
Well after doing injections for 30 months I wouldn't do it again.
1 month off now. But I had to try it. I got an amazing body out of it and felt better. Malefailed etc. But I had these thoughts for so long doubting if what I'm doing is right. I just kept putting them off. Doubling down on my transition. Until one day I was finally like. No I will be him once more. Properly. Being a man does not mean being aggressive or emotionless. It is the opposite. A true man has lots of heart and is genuine. Don't listen to expectations. I never had strong body dysphoria. I lurked /cd growing up n always wanted to transition and did it eventually and I'm glad I did. Whatever you pick you have to be sure. But there's nothing wrong with going back or trying what works for you. Now I regret losing my natural body and having tits. But I also feel seeing the other side made me a stronger person. I would never be able to live with myself if I didn't make a solid effort in trying it. In the end, none of this(gender) is real and you are the only person that can make the decision. Easier said then done. I think being trans doesn't always mean you have to transition though. There is no 'trans enough' or any of that. It doesn't 'not count'. It's a decision you make. Apologies for the word salad. Look at your future and also which decision/state of being would you fight for? And if you do, be damn sure you want to sterilize yourself.

>>1865
>i dont have dysphoria am i trans
No

>>2106
lol why would you make this story up?

>>2106
you sound cool i like you

>>2106
>be damn sure you want to sterilize yourself
That is a good point, HRT does have the potential to permanently sterilise you. Admittedly I don't want kids now or ever, so moot point as far as I'm concerned.

>none of this(gender) is real and you are the only person that can make the decision
Mate, gender dysphoria is a thing, for many of us it's either this or paying out the nose for surgery.

>>2145
it is very obviously a cissy with an agenda that doesn't know shit about the topic they are feigning personal experience in

>>2144
totally normal non-samefag post

also boxy is a child and posting pics of her is creepy as fuck

>>2145
Yeah I could have worded that part better, I do agree dysphoria is real

>>2152

hm ? I'm not here to push an agenda or samefag. why are you worked up?

pic related

>>2155
This looks wrong, they're arranged like workplace supplies. Also why would you need three vials, why is there a label on one and why are there so many bottles?

>>2156
i would get 2 vials at a time, and used most of 2 already, the one with the label is from an older order, diy supplier stopped putting labels on them for whatever reason

also (most of) the other bottles are just other random vitamins, those are not hrt related i just keep them in same drawer. 'workplace supplies' made me lol. how else am I supposed to arrange them??

nb

if you have no intention to start hrt youre not trans

>>2155
>hm ? I'm not here to push an agenda or samefag. why are you worked up?
because taking injections you ordered off the internet for 30 months without even having "strong body dysphoria" and then deciding you want to be a man and writing some post about how gender is fake actually complete with chan memes seems like some shit a cis person that thinks trans people are fake and has no actual personal stake in the matter would say

>>2159
lol not true obviously, I mean I assume you mean people that have the potential to get on hrt but choose not to for whatever reason? what if they change their mind?

personally I would say that anyone that identifies as a gender different than they were assigned at birth is trans. but that it's probably not worth it to transition socially and medically/hrt for anyone who doesn't experience dysphoria

>>2157
>how else am I supposed to arrange them??
Having a dedicated medication drawer is the literal definition of bourgeois. I need to stash it in the same place as my tissues, soldering iron, office supplies and cheese grater.

>>2160

That says a fair amount about you. But I don't think trans people are fake. I didn't do it for no reason. I also don't feel the need to detail my dysphoria to convince anyone of being tru™. That would be silly. Just sharing my experience. Enjoy your day.

>>2162
Fascinating



nb

>>2161
>you mean people that have the potential to get on hrt but choose not to for whatever reason?
obviously

>anyone that identifies as a gender different than they were assigned at birth is trans
trans as just vibes lol

>>2164
>That says a fair amount about you
or that you are avoiding addressing the point I made after you asked me to clarify it?

anyways if you really aren't a woman and aren't going to feel dysphoria in 3 months when you start growing facial hair and belly fat again and your hair falls out, then why would you have some personal knowledge on what is best for trans people? let alone to say that it's a decision people make?

like sure maybe you actually are just someone that wanted to experience some aspects of a female gender role and somehow spent 30 months on diy injections then decided you would rather be a man

how would that relate at all to someone who identifies as a different gender then they were assigned at birth and feels compelled to transition for different reasons like gender dysphoria rather than that "they want to try it out" or find they get some fetishistic thrill out of it?

another thing that pisses me off about this and I think this also applies to cis women misunderstanding trans women too, is that if a man decides to live life in a female gender role purely to satisfy some sexual urges or gain some sort of social resources, that is kind of like faking an identity that some people feel is an innate part of them and which brings with it hardship but that cannot be avoided due to being an inherent part of that person's identity, not a choice they made. which is some pomo shit anyways. same thing how it disturbs people when someone completely fakes aspects of their personality in order to meet certain ends socially or something

>>2155
not conceding this as evidence you are who you claim to be either, could justa sw ell be photoshopped

>>2166
>trans as just vibes lol
personal identity in contrast to the socially assigned one. calling it vibes doesn't address the basis for the argument I am making

transmedicalism is petite-bourgios gatekeeping. they care more about protecting their personal comfort being legally sanctioned under liberalism than universalizing their own temporary privilege to make it permanent.

>>2170
>they care more about protecting their personal comfort being legally sanctioned under liberalism than universalizing their own temporary privilege to make it permanent
how? and define transmedicalism?
I don't think that saying that there are people in society that need socially provided hrt in order to treat their gender dysphoria means that you agree we should do means testing for who is really trans. if there is people that "want but don't need" to take hrt for whatever reason then maybe under full communism that will be in the production quotas along with everything we produce to fulfill "wants". but for now while we are stuck with socially provided healthcare services and other basic needs provided socially (at best, in some capitalist countries). then it is important to advocate gender dysphoria as a medical condition in need of socially provided medicine, just as we do with diabetes or narcolepsy or whatever

>>2171
>saying that there are people in society that need socially provided hrt in order to treat their gender dysphoria
but thats not what was said they said if you dont have dysphoria you are not trans
>we should do means testing for who is really trans
i dont think anyone said this either.
>how?
because its limiting who is and isn't trans according to bourgeois science to protect their legal right to transition under capitalism and crying about how people who dont have the same experience as them are bad optics and might get their rights taken away. one poster even immediately goes into reinforcing transphobic bs about fetishes to distance themselves from the gross icky trans that normie liberals wont accept. its just pick me behavior acting like a candace owens uncle tom but for transes

>>2171
>but for now
and how is this any different than any other reform vs revolution argument. choosing half measures because they benefit the personal individually instead of going all the way. i wouldnt want to be trans under a system where i have to conform to some preconceived idea of what that means just to get medical care but these liberals see that as a good thing and "progressive". how can you consider yourself free when your freedom relies on separating you from your brothers and sisters

>>2173
>but thats not what was said they said if you dont have dysphoria you are not trans
>because its limiting who is and isn't trans according to bourgeois science to protect their legal right to transition under capitalism and crying about how people who dont have the same experience as them are bad optics and might get their rights taken away.
yeah I concur
>one poster even immediately goes into reinforcing transphobic bs about fetishes to distance themselves from the gross icky trans that normie liberals wont accept
who? me >>2167 ?
>>2175
it is not one or the other. also I think that trans people that don't experience gender dysphoria are still trans but it's also important to highlight that some people experience gender dysphoria and that taking hrt and transitioning is a part of curing that and being able to live a more happy healthy life