I would ask what you guys think of religion, transcendence or God in general, but I will put it in this way:
You step into an empty mosque, what would you do?
What exactly would you think? What is your reaction when you enter a place that is sacred to many people and where it is believed to be a place to worship God?
I wanna know what passes through other people's minds when they are put in this situation.
Idkno, pray?
I would probably leave immediately because non-Muslims are strictly prohibited from entering any of the prayer spaces and I don't want to get kicked out or even worse, arrested.
if you aren't an atheist you are a right-winger
>>806660What would you pray for? Describe it to me, please.
>>806661Anyone is allowed to enter a mosque.
>>806662Why do you think that?
I would throw together a ceremonial magick ritual and use the sacred names of Allah
Which may be a purely psychological effect but i suspect its alot more complex than that however I consider myself a dialectical materialist fully so my spirituality has alot to do with social and cultural information cycles and internal psychology
>>806665This ritual, describe it to me.
>>806666Well I would make one it depends on a few things id have to think what i want to get out of it first and what would the environment be most useful for
>>806667Do you believe the One would be watching you?
>>806670I believe the only thing i can call capital G "God" or a creator is myself
>You step into an empty mosque, what would you do?
Stand wherever is warmest.
>What exactly would you think?
I can't be sure, probably something about the construction of the buildings.
>What is your reaction when you enter a place that is sacred to many people and where it is believed to be a place to worship God?
Anywhere on Earth is such a place. Every blade of grass may be sacred to some. I will do as I ever do: Find something to drink, something to eat, somewhere to stretch and somewhere to rest.
>>806671So you really believe you are there alone, by yourself?
You do not believe there is anything else with you?
>>806672So you do not feel the need to do something else?
Like, you know thay place is heavily sacred to some, you just see that as a building and has no need to look for anything more?
>>806673Im never alone because I have all of the entities of history with me the egregores that my psychology feeds into alongside the multiplicitity within and without what we call "myself"
its an inproper question i think to ask if i would be alone or there is any "thing" there because the kernel of truth is in both the stance of "no one is here with me" and also "there is spiritual entities with me"
>>806674mm
I believe God is real and I always think we should look for him.
For some reason I think it must be just Him.
>>806673>So you do not feel the need to do something else?>Like, you know that place is heavily sacred to some, you just see that as a building and have no need to look for anything more?What else is there to look for?
>>806676are you not a seeker?
I mean, there is this world we live in, and there is this place many people say is the house of the most powerful being there is
you do not feel the need to ask for something?
>>806675I have no reason to think what most people call God is real not to mention most people cant even describe what there even is to look for
>>806677>I mean, there is this world we live in, and there is this place many people say is the house of the most powerful being there is>you do not feel the need to ask for something?If they are so powerful I would think I could ask from anywhere, no?
>>806678I don't think this way.
>>806679yes maybe but I am putting you in an Islamic place for a reason
I think it is because I connect with it somehow and wanna see what others feel about it
>>806681a powerful being, the most powerful thing there is and that controls everything including ourselves
>>806681a concept by which we measure our pain
>>806682define powerful and what would the most powerful mean and how could we know that there is anything in control of everything when we have explanations for why things happen and if we dont the trajectory of science shows we eventually will
could god create a stone so heavy even he couldn't lift?
>>806659I've been in near-empty Mosques, you get a sense of sacredness and the divine in its silence. Its like you subconsciously quiet yourself in its presence. If I were in a totally empty one I'd probably pray in silence.
>>806685See I feel like this logical paradox kind of falls into the trap of conceptualizing God as "some guy". Its talking in terms of physical muscle or strength when most mystics and theologians approached God with the knowledge that we as humans can never perfectly perceive Him. A few even employed contradiction consciously in their attempts to describe mystical experiences that brought them closer to God; "The Shining Dark" for example was used by some mystics in an attempt to describe Him.
And when it comes to God, at least from the position of the faithful, we're talking about something that fundamentally can't be measured or studied in any scientific means, but we've grown so used to the idea that everything can be quantified and gauged and measured that the notion there exists something outside of that, something incapable of being scaled on a fundamental level, we reject it as de facto impossible.
I'm not saying this to insult you, mind you, but rather to explain my frustration at a certain line of argumentation that basically only conceives of God in terms of "well a physical person sitting on a cloud here on earth."
>>806685>>806684god is just something that is always there and will always will be
we have no idea of what it is and whatever we do we will never get it
this is my opinion
I believe he is real because I cannot understand how can I be a living being without something higher than be to sustain my existence this way
it has to be personal and above this
>>806686what would you pray for at the moment?
>>806687nothing always is there everything is impermanent and all evidence would lead us to believe that
also you are just positing that there is something that you dont even know what it is so actually you arnt even positing a thing at all because you cant even define what you are pointing at beyond a vague abstraction
>>806689think about it in this way:
you have a memory, you know that things happened and they cannot be undone
your existence in this world will never be undone, no matter what happens, it just is and will always be
there is a memory in reality, something that stays forever, that "oneness" is in another dimension and we can reach it somehow but we are not there, we live in between dimensions
I see the movememt of the world as something that happens in the material world, but anything outside of it is kinda always there and we are beings that belong to both dimensions
i don't know what god is, but I can have some idea of it, that is what I am talkong about
>>806688I'd pray for another bong rip and a few minutes of silence from my WIFE! heyooooooo
>>806690memory is actually incredibly unreliable most of our memories dont accurately reflect what "was done" but what information our brain decided to log and it goes away when we die or forget it my existance will be undone when the concept of me or the idea of my memory is no longer relevant
there is nothing that stays forever and there is no "oneness" you are positing some kind of intrinstic foundation behind the universe but there is no foundation because there is no foundation for any identity the grounding of some substance that unifies things or that underlies "the universe" is a abstraction of essence or identity but we can pick apart the real material aspects of anything you have experienced and we can find its made up of parts there is no solid certainty or identity behind it
>>806692yes, we see things in our own perspective
that is why I believe there is a God who "sees" it in the absolute perspective, huh
there must be something, that is what I am talking about
space, time and matter are part of the universe, as we see it, it is relative, time and matter moves, space seems to be always there tho
>>806693>there must be somethingbecause…?
>>806693>alwaysyou mean at all times? if so space would be grounded in time and you already said time is relative.
>>806693What we see is irrelevant to the question of what we should do or what is our most relevant model of truth
there is no absolute perspectives thats the whole thing all truth we come to is a product of the dialectic its a model we build until its outdated precisely BECAUSE of the variation and subjectivity can we not posit there is some one eternal truth
>>806696i am not a scientist but space doesn't seem to move
we move in it, but it stays fixed
anyways, if there is a god he is in another dimension, but his being affects this one
>>806695because our existence cannot be the highest thing there is in my opinion
consciousness is something we have and we have because there is something in the universe that has the possibility of allowing us to have it, so it can comprehend us better than ourselves
>>806698you are presupposing a "higher" or "lower" and using that to come to the conclusion there must be one but you fail to realize in the counterfactual of there being no God there is also no "higher" or "lower" ways to be conscious
>>806697dialectics is how the world operates but it is not absolute
we assume there is an absolute because… yes?
why not, tbh, why you despise the idea of absolute?
>>806699all I know is that I didn't give life to myself, I think because there is a "light" in me, using poetic terms
this light, or knowledge is not something we can create by ourselves, it is given to us by something else
people call this God
>>806700nothing is absolute because we cant find or point to anything that is
>>806701Your mom and dad gave life to you
>>806702well, I can
reality is
>>806701>>806704woah so deep bro
Hoxha was right.
>>806698>i am not a scientist but space doesn't seem to moveit expands though
>>806698>anyways, if there is a god he is in another dimension, but his being affects this onewhat does god mean, for you?
what does dimension mean, for you?
>>806705mm
not everything needs to be deep
there is an oneness in reality and we can say that this is based on an absolute being we can call god
i think this is self evident
deep stuff exist, but we xan assume this as an starting point
>>806704What does that even mean? prove that
>>806707i can't see it expanding so I will abstain
but space is a dimension not god, god is more abstract than that, but I used this to explain not everything is in constant movement
>>806708god = supreme being
i assume it exists, and I call him a he because i also assume he is or can be personal, but I am not sure about it, so cool off because I am not a preacher I am just trying to understand stuff
>>806713everything actually is in constant movement in some sense everything is in a state of change reality is in a state of change the universe is concepts are you are ect
>>806710you want a real proof?
that proof needs to exist in reality?
>>806715whats the proof reality is "absolute"
>>806714to detect movement you need something that does not move in order to observe a moving towards b
your consciousness has something unmovable in it, it observes the world changing but it stays fixed, this point is more of an abstract thing but it is still real and important
>>806718Thats retarded no you fucking dont if we were in a void and were vibrating towards other vibrating objects towards us we are both moving and can know we are moving
there is nothing "unmovable" in consciousness it doesnt stay fixed ive done enough drugs to know there is nothing fixed at all about perception or anything like that
>>806712the void is not moving tho
>>806698Bear with me. I am going to say a lot but I want you to see how the universe is spiritual without spirits and souls and God even needing to be real in the supernatural sense. Matter and energy are enough for the spiritual.
>consciousness is something we haveit's the interaction of the environment with the brain through the sensory apparatus. Sever someone's optical nerves and they can no longer see. They lose that part of their consciousness. If they lose their eyes, go deaf, and get paralyzed from the neck down, they end up in a Johnny Got His Gun situation (good movie). They still have a mind but can barely interact with the world because they have lost their sensory apparatus. Conversely, a person can have all 5 of their senses in tact but if they suffer severe brain damage they might go into a coma or become brain dead. A living body with barely any consciousness. Consciousness is physical, and not a single unit. It can be destroyed piece by piece, and different parts of it are stored in different parts of the brain and body. The individual isn't even one person but trillions of cells acting together. The illusion of oneness is a fiction the brain creates to better orchestrate the body, rather than a reality, but the fiction has the potential to become the guiding principle of reality, since it is only through the approximate fictions we create that we can understand reality. Reality is so complex that we must break it down into small pieces that oversimplify things when thinking. A simulation must use less energy than the thing it simulates in order to be efficient and thinking about something is partly simulating it. You cannot have a perfectly accurate simulation so you cannot have a perfectly accurate thought, model, or understanding. All understanding is approximate. We mistake this illusion of oneness that our mind creates as the primary principle of the universe, and then we create the idea of God in the image of that oneness. But we are not "I". We are many creatures acting as one. Trillions of cells. The idea of a soul is the idea of an indivisible "essence" that the consciousness is stored in, but we can see that a person's consciousness might "die" piece by piece through damage of the brain and sensory apparatus, rather than all at once. That seems to me to be not evidence of an indivisible soul, but of a divisible consciousness that is rooted in the material. It is an emergent property of the brain, body, and environment working together, but it does not last forever and is easily damaged or destroyed. There are many forms of consciousness, for example people think very differently from each other, and animals think even more differently than us. Different sensory apparatuses can pick up different signals. Some animals can see wavelengths that we cannot. But this is just evolution at work. Adaptation to needs and environment. How does a fungus think and feel? A fungus might have consciousness but it is so much different from ours that we cannot imagine it. I think this is a lot more interesting than the traditional idea of a personal "God." What fascinates me is all the different ways the universe becomes conscious of itself through the organisms that form within it. Now I don't believe the universe has some "intention" behind it. Maybe it will die out, but if the big bang happened, maybe there was a big crunch before it. Maybe it is entirely possible that what prevents the future heat death of the universe is the same thing that caused the big bang in our past. Maybe the universe evolves life to prevent the heat death of the universe. Maybe all the plants and galaxies produce enough life that some of those life forms become very advanced, almost "god" like and and take over the whole universe, only to "restart" the universe with a new big bang, to prevent the permanent end of all movement that is the heat death. Maybe that is "god." maybe the universe "re-creates" "god" and god "re-creates" the universe to return the favor. It is all recreational (pun intended).
>>806722There is nothing to say is or isnt moving its a void its the absence of qualities now if you want to say Emptiness or the ABSENCE of qualities or identity is what makes something not subject to change i would agree but your idea of God is NOT that
>>806711>>806712>>806717>>806719Imagime how arrogant one must be to say he fully understands what God and religion is in order to criminalize it and kill and destroy religious temples because you cannot accept organized worship
>>806725Cry some more. You will face the wall when the revolution comes.
>>806726Nope. this image is totally compatible with Buddhism total negation is a necessary process for dharma
if you see the buddha on the road to enlightenment kill him
>>806724there is no void in reality
everything that exists has a quality
movement is relative, it is a relation beings have towards another
they all move in something tho, this something is what we call the ultimate reality, it doesn't move, we live in it and we move because of it
>>806722space is not the void, common confusion. space is a substrate out of which matter forms as an excitation. the void is not such a substrate.
>>806729There is void in reality its that lack of quality
there is no quality to anything in reality the ship of theseus and the heap of sand thought experiments show us this
>>806731you are thinking in a dialectical way, and it is good, but this dialectics should be fixed in something
void is the opposite of something, positive and negative, hot and cold
God in this case is beyond movement or dialectical thinking, you are saying something like "God is movement" and that is what parmenides said and marx worked upon something similar
but god is not movement, there is something beyond movement and we can call this the One.
>>806732>but god is not movement, there is something beyond movement and we can call this the One.tell me what you think of this post:
>>806723 >>806732there is nothing to fix to you are just asserting shit for which you have no evidence and which you assert is necessary without demonstrating why
>>806723>>806733>>806734oneness is irrefutable because the premise of any concept, thought and idea is the law of identity, which is based on oneness.
we live in oneness, we juzt do no compreehends all the depths of it, be we can say for sure that all is one
some people struggle with it but I think they have problem with basic stuff
accept there is a reality and that reality where we live is based on a singularity, this is: everything exists in one single stuff
we cannot think outside of it
this is the starting point of any thought or life experience
after you accept this oneness of reality exists, you go on and expand your thoughts, because God is real but he does not reveal itself entirely to everyone
>>806735literally no no its not you are just claiming its the case I can infact think outside of oneness i have this entire time
>>806736>>806737ok, you win
there is no singularity in the universe
reality actually does not exist, there is no reality at all
you don't even exist, we are not talking at all
God is not real, there is no source of reality, no light, nothing, even nothing does not exist
>>806738it didn't work
I am still here
I guess not everything changes :)
>>806738I never said it doesn't exist i said there is no intrinsic identity or essence behind anything that isnt the same statement retard
Can you provide evidence of God? No? That's what I thought.
When I enter a 'holy' place I don't feel anything. What the fuck are you supposed to feel? You're making an is-ought leap here dumbass.
The only thing that is one is the world, which is just matter in different configurations, movement and interaction. This is the monist conception of history. You have read Plekhanov, right?
>>806742then it isnt one is it if its all parts that are also infinitely parts themselves can we even say they make a recognizable whole when we can change boundaries around to change what we consider the parts to be and thus what we consider the "whole"
>>806740the most basic human experience should be this one:
"i know i exist, i know i did not create myself, something else did, this something transcends me"
things change, something does not change, that something is more important than what changes
this oneness is God
>>806741>>806742>>806743to me, reality is the proof God exists
I like using the word "reality" because it is more powerful and wider than just "world" or "universe"
reality is what was, is and is possible to be. it is what we know and what we do not know.
it is material and abstract thoughts, but also feelings and ideas
the existence of it is the proof of God in my conception because all things have a source and that source is better than what derives from it
God is real.
>>806744I only exist in a sense that there is a collection of parts we can conventionally call me but i dont think i exist intrinsically the YOU that was 5 years old is not the same person in any capacity as "you" are now you just have a memory stream so you think of yourself as the same
>>806744also again the only thing that created us is our parents
>>806747>>806746do not live like a worm
take the light I am giving you and do something better with it
I am going to sleep now
>>806748You just made the light up in your head and thought it to be important
>>806659>What exactly would you think?Probably about the waste of time and resources people spend worshipping imaginary creatures.
>>806659What would I do?… Idk, nothing, maybe I would have a quick look around, then leave.
Unless Im trespassing I'd look around and enjoy the beautiful design. Religion inspired a lot of war and suffering but also the best art and architecture of the last millennia. Hopefully we would finally get over it though, and start putting humanity first instead of some imaginary alien overlord.
>>806664>Anyone is allowed to enter a mosque.Most mosques are open to the public, however no, the prayer spaces explicitly bans non-Muslims from access. I have been to like up to ten Mosques in ny my entire life on several continents and this has always been the case. Why are you lying?
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