No.5576
good get
No.5577
>>5575based
solid effort lads
No.5578
But yeah, happy TWOSDAY to all of you fellow /siberia/ns!!!
No.5580
did mods unlock the board too late?
No.5582
>>5576thought it was just my system clock
No.5583
>>5580yes
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) No.5584
100% got it 222222 at 22.22 of the 22/02
Random anons on the internet manged to coordinate almost to the second
No.5585
>>55753 second off perfection
No.5586
ngl that PERFECT 222222 GET is killing me and I'm not even an autist
No.5587
Marx didn't account for upload times
No.5589
>>5575On time, perfect!
DID NOTHING WRONG CONFIRMED No.5590
>>222223
;_;
xi bros
No.5591
What a glorious get.
I will tell my children.
No.5594
put me in the screencap
No.5595
THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE ARCHIVED
No.5596
fuck janis
No.5599
>>5597jannies siberiafakis
No.5600
>>222261
hello /pol/
No.5601
Hey we still got 2222-02-22….
No.5602
>>5601we need to wait for 2222-22-22 tho
that's the best get
No.5603
>>5575When I saw the post, date said 'Tue Feb 22 22:23:12 GMT 2022' and ntpd surely runs on my machine.
Jannies need to "recalibrate" the server clock.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) No.5604
>>5602Leftypol should be alive and kicking by that date
No.5607
>>5606it's a Christmas miracle!
No.5612
>>5606>>5608:22 exists )))
No.5613
>>5607>>5608>>56123 seconds never happened.
No.5614
>>5613what 3 seconds? are you a revisionist?
No.5615
>>5614Exactly, they were renegades and had it coming, and it was never even a thing!
No.5616
LEFTWING DEVIATIONS WILL NEVER RECOVER
No.5617
>>5614>>5615I meant the 3 second rule.
you know, when food falls on the ground and you still want to eat it.
It's not a real thing.
No.5619
>>222296
why is it auto-fellatio and not just fellatio.
Also why are you bitter about it? It's not like we chose it. It's first come first served bb…
No.5622
>>5620this is the perfect time to create /missioncontrol/
DO IT MODS No.5623
Good one…. Wishing you good day everybody…
No.5624
is 2 filtered to 2?
No.5626
>>5624no, but it should be
i personally had enough with 2s
No.5627
>>5624>it isn't and why should it be.
>>5626>i personally had enough with 2swell that's your problem. the number 2 did nothing wrong
No.5628
>>56272 did nothing wrong
No.5631
2=2((spreading revisionist propaganda))(Upon further inspection, this post is fine)
No.5632
>>5621A Trotskyist professor and revisionist was holding a lecture on the modern history of repating numbers…
No.5633
a square has 2*2 corners
No.5635
>>5575>>5606this is cursed as fuck. You can se the 6-6-6 pattern everywhere
No.5637
>>5633what's a pentagon? that is just some word you made up
No.5640
MY BROTHER IS WATCHING, SPREADING HIS CHEEKS. THEY TRY TO ERASE MY VIRGINITY AND PRETEND ONLY ASS EXISTS.
No.5641
>>5639why do you keep posting 2? okay we get it buddy
No.5645
>>5636Seven Heads and Ten Horns. look closely
No.5649
>>222221
No.5652
>222331
>christ cuck
<taking obvious bait
<being an edgy fag
Go back, retard.
No.5660
So what is the Groverr Furr meme
Is he actually good?
What is the controversy surrounding him
No.5661
>>5660TL;DR: He's a hardcore Stalin defender that made a name by debunking Katyn and numerous other anti-Soviet mythology as well as Cornman's anti-Stalinist attack. The Red Text is a literal quote of his. He is by far one of the best sources of unwavering defense of the Soviet Union and has never been actually debunked or properly argued against by anyone because at best you can only claim he is biased - his sources are rock-solid.
A particular book that I recommend is Blood Lies, a debunk of Timothy Snyder's (and Anne Applebaum's) holodomeme book, Blood Lands.
No.5663
>>5662No problemo, glad to help.
No.5664
*sneeze*
No.5665
can i get banned until tomorrow? imma go to sleep gn.(sleep well, comrade)
No.5666
>>5661> his sources are rock-solid. pks be true
grover sounds too good to be true homies
>>5664shooo bad cat
No.5667
>>5666>grover sounds too good to be true homiesDon't believe me? Read him
>>5658His site is also a good place to go.
https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/ Also recc:
https://espressostalinist.com/category/grover-furr/ No.5668
>>5575Might as well post the famous
NOT ONE CRIME video.
No.5669
>>5666What makes a history source good?
I've always wondered, like what is the criteria
There was some anti-stalin author who made up stuff about stalin's secret child
But even people not on the left said his sources were not good
How did they do that
No.5670
>>5667Meant to reply
>>5669 No.5671
>>5669>>5670Sources that are primary like original documents and eyewitness accounts by reliable people
are considered the most accurate and reliable. Citation is also important, you can't just make a claim and refer to a book, a page and paragraph number matters as does the primary source of the book. Moreover diverse sources matter. For example the entire "canniabal gulag island is reliant on 1 anti-communist author, Werth and his primary source boiled down to hearsay. Furr points that kind of thing out in many of the debunks he wrote, and provided at least one reliable source to counter it.
TL;DR: Historiographic citation and sourcing is often a game of pseuds (like Robert Conquest) dumping source names to their claims, and seeing if anyone had the patience to notice it VS good faith citation by actual historians (Like J. Arch Getty).
No.5673
>>5672I know u are but what am I?
No.5674
>>5673something worse – a janny.
No.5675
>>5674Jannies are based. Support our jannies.
No.5677
look at last three numbers of my post
No.5678
>>5677they are nice to look at, but the date is slightly nicer.
No.5679
>>5676we can send our nudes maybe?
No.5681
>>5680>Where does he go?To download his lesson plan and notes from the CIA. If the CIA could support the New Left, in hopes of fragmenting the left, why wouldn't they support the extreme on the other end too?
No.5684
>>5681Why doesn't the cia just send him everything for for the week?
Did you think this through, Mr CIA?
No.5685
>>5590I am literally shattered
No.5688
>>5668I am glad he is not a bitch but also keeps his composure
No.5689
An infantile revisionist liberal professor and anti-communist was teaching a class on Rosa Luxemburg, a known Anti-Leninist.
"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Anton Pannekoek and accept that he was the most advanced Marxist the world has ever known, even greater than Mao Tse tung!"
At this moment, a brave, anti-revisionist, Marxist-Leninist who had memorized all of Mao's quotations from the Little Red Book and fully recognized the fascist nature of the 1956 Hungarian Revolution stood up and exclaimed a question.
"Infantile "Left-Wing" Communist! Who is Rosa Luxemburg?"
The arrogant Councilist smirked quite liberally and smugly replied "An Anti-Leninist theorist and revolutionary, you stupid activist."
"Wrong. She is a Leninist and revolutionary vanguardist. If she was such a spontaneist, then why did she compliment Lenin?"
The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Endnotes. He stormed out of the room crying those petite-bourgeois colonialist tears. The same tears imperialists cry for "intervention" when they chauvinistically try to argue that the DPRK needs to be crushed. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, Guy Debord, wished he had studied dialectics and become more than a pathetic CIA shill.
The students applauded and all became anti-imperialists that day and accepted Abimael Guzmán as the highest Marxist theorist to yet exist. A wild dog named "democratic centralism" ran into the room and began organizing a workers party. State and Revolution was read several times, and Joseph Stalin himself showed up and called all the students filthy Poles and homos.
The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He was given an intense struggle session and forced to give a self-criticism before his gulag sentencing.
And the students name? Grover Furr.
No.5690
>>5689Reminds me of the Hoxha video which I can't find :(
No.5691
>>5671Wow okay thanks
This history thing is actually pretty extensive work, I just thought you could sit in a chair all day
But I guess you would have to go out and interview people and places too get eyewitnesses and shit
But Ultimately it still seems flawed, and people can make shit up
You are right, It is a game of pseuds and perspectives
Honestly just believe what you want, Doesn't matter
No.5693
>>5591You wanna make some children anon?
No.5694
>>5680giga based
wtf does the homie teach if the students are saying he goes off topic about communism?
communism is very relevant to a large part of history
No.5695
>>5694He teaches medieval English so he really has no business talking about communism lol
No.5697
Can I get a doubles?
No.5700
>be me,china,in 2060.
>wake up every day at 5 pm.
>have my breakfast of deep-fried dough sticks, steamed buns, tofu pudding, wheat noodles.
>take a cold bath and dress up.
>leave my apartment in the morning.
>grab a newspaper from our local British paperboy, as I pay him with tea bags.
>" yesterday, the Chinese People's Liberation Army was still trying to contain terrorist activities in the California strip, violent American militia "the boogahideen li Tahrir America" has once again fired homemade balloons and rockets at Chinese settlers and workers in oregonzhou, in other news Xi Mingze signed today a new trade deal with France and Germany for corona masks.
>take the nearest cab, which has no ads on it, and go to the train station.
>in the train station everyone is reading books and arguing about politics, Maoism, and what we should do about American terrorism.
>i ride on the train that goes from my home in hong kong, to east Turkmistan then to shanghai (in ten minutes).
>uncle calls me from Taiwan to ask about my health, it seems they discovered another cure to cancer, the 5th cure discovered this month.
>i congrats him as I leave the train station.
>walk to my workplace at the shanghai police station, take the elevator to the 500th floor.
>spend the entire day doing detective work, checking CCTV cameras for any suspicious activity done by the American migrants, while reading the little red book for entertainment.
>shift is over, decide to spend the last 3 hours of this day at the local bar, after 5 glasses of baijiu, I salute my friends and leave
>an American stops me when I walk out "ate any cats lately chink?" he says "we wuz gods once chink, we used to laugh at you, and we still do, so how will your beloved xi react when we hold his pathetic bug workers like this?"
>he tries to grab my shoulders, but I pull out my pistol and blow his brain out.
>decide to call the police about this incident and apologize
>they laugh and thank me for cleaning the country, saying that a new Janny from Australia named Fraser Anning will come in the morning to clean it up.
> I return home to see my wife waiting for me at the stairs like this
>today was a good day.
>wake up from sleep at 1:00 AM to the sound of my phone
>recieve the bad news, my dad died of old age
>I sit down on the balcony, turning on my father's old laptop which he left for me 5 years ago.
>cry like a bitch as scroll through images of me and my dad.
>stumble upon a folder I never bothered to open before, named Siberia screenshots
>"I wonder what's inside"
>gaze upon a pdf from 2022
>it was an archived thread from a now-defunct imageboard site.
>thread no 222222 2022-02-22 (Tue), titled "These one"s for our comrade Grover Furr.
NOT ONE CRIME"
>mfw my dad was a shitposter
No.5701
>>5695why tf are people learning medival english that's so stupid
what use is that of
No.5702
>>5701Important for the historical record. And probably more useful than knowing french
No.5703
>>5695lots of people in academic history departments are commies on the down low
No.5704
>>5702>probably more useful than knowing frenchWow? Why
Are shakespeare's languages wrote in medival english or something
>>5703how do i get a job in academic history
No.5708
>>5706God, a legend whoever made that
No.5711
>The number 2 symbolizes many of the basic dualities: me/you, male/female, yes/no, alive/dead, left/right, yin/yang, and so on. Dualities are common in human approaches to the world, probably because of our preference for two-valued logic—yet another duality, true/false.
based dialectical get
No.5714
>>5575>be Grover Furr>professor of Medieval English literature>not content with writing comfy books about comfy books>goes full tankie on all fronts>>5707Kek!
No.5716
what a moronic get. mods should’ve nuked the board in reaction if they had an ounce of decency
No.5719
>>5718>grover is using the same methodology people like conquest use against communism against trotsky.bold move, let's see how will it pan out.
No.5720
I spoke with Furr on the phone yesterday
AMA
No.5721
>>5720Yo really? I've wanted to do that but never had the time. What about?
No.5722
>>5721Trotskyite collaboration with Nazis
No.5723
>>5722How'd he respond? You ought to make rough transcript TBH
No.5725
>>5724This faggot is a wrecker.
No.5726
>>5725>calling grover furr a schizo boomer is wreckingis going outside and commenting on the weather wrecking, too
No.5728
>>5720How many pizzas did he order?
No.5729
tes
No.5731
bumping
No.5733
I saw Grover Furr at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any trotskyite infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
No.5734
>>5733Sounds like horseshit to me.
No.5735
>>5732I mean I could, but it's retarded,
1) They're not actually disputing or addressing his overall narrative, but attacking details and supposed sources
2) Their main sources are essentially made up of anti-communist 'memoirs' such as Tragedy of the RKKA, a book that has numerous inaccuracies in itself.
3) They take portions out of context.
All in all a poor effort masked by textwalling and quote spam, circlejerked by other idiots.
No.5736
>>5733yeah, sounds like him
I believe you
No.5737
>>5733>LA>Grover Furr*doubt*
Also this reads like a Copy-pasta
No.5740
>>5738I'm tired and not exactly going to remember every copy-pasta, meme and joke from the past decade of imageboard culture, enlighten me.
No.5743
>>5742Looks fairly good, only thing I'd do is make Stalin more ghostly (a la spectre of communism) since he'd been dead by that point.
No.5745
>>5742looks cool. one problem: stalin was dead
also stalin got off easy in the secret speech. most of the blame went to bureaucratic scapegoats and stalin was depicted as out of the loop
No.5748
>>5747To be fair that site isn't very reliable, not all students are aware of it, and not a lot of those that are, care enough to post, most people that post there are those that got really assblasted over the course. I recall a teacher at my school that had horrible scores on the site, but my fears of a terrible teacher had been unfounded, people that did the ratings just didn't like the class and failed because they didn't try.
t.unistudent
No.5749
I know you don't organize raids here, but I present to you
c r o w d f u n d e d t r o l l s
You collectively pay me via $$$patreon$$$ and for:
$100 a month - I spend 1 hour every day I post 'go back to leftypol' on every post I can find on 4chan with a hint of humanitarianism
$200 a month - I actively endorse bad technology solutions like the Freedom Phone™® and denounce anyone endorsing effective solutions like Tor (which as we all know is a glowie-designed pedo honeypot)
$500 a month: I read and take notes on Hegel's bibliography and debate /pol/ in a minimum of 2 simultaneous threads for 3 hours a day, every weekday.
If you personally donate, you can:
50 a month: Decide a focus topic, such as intersex peoples.
100 a month: Decide my name, avatar or tripcode for a month.
No.5750
not one
No.5752
>>57513, that's the number of soviet-celebs people remember today, Lenin Trotsky Stalin
No.5754
ubij se oca ti jebem a po mogucnosti prije toga si ubij i zenu i to malo govance
No.5755
>>5754>ubij se oca ti jebem a po mogucnosti prije toga si ubij i zenu i to malo govanceI love playing Google Translate or Diaspora! I'm gonna go with diaspora on this one, because of the lack of punctuation signs.
No.5756
>>5575Leftists should not defend this person. He's as bad as rightoid covid conspiracy theorists.
No.5758
>>5757he's a fucking crackpot
>>5756only morons and fellow travelers shill him, so basically leftypol's average user
No.5759
>>5758how's he a crackpot ?
No.5761
>>5760Also not a real historian but at least he's not a crackpot
No.5762
>>5761You still need to say why Grover is a crackpot.
No.5764
>>5763>BEeh, not exactly a good source to anything really, in his newest holodomor video he goes on to show the sources and he exposes how the pro-genocide sources only 2 are valid, but the funny thing is these two sources only justifications are that the creators are serious historians, even tought they are spewing libel.
not only that early in that same video he stated that one of their sources are flufed up to appeal to authority, but his argument for accepting these two as good is exactly the same thing, it's apealing about their authority of being "good historians", it's like he did not want to put that every source of the pro-holodomor side was bullshit, so he had to do a lil bit of both sides.
he also deny the actions of the kulaks in their sabotage and reduces the scope of the aid the soviets did for that catastrope, effectively puting a blame in one side and whitewashing another thus transforming the entire situation into another narrative and not an acurrate history lesson.
No.5765
>>5724Most talented north american leftcom "artist".
VS.
>>5742Least talented latin american marxist-leninst artist.
No.5766
>>5765you honestly think that looks good
No.5770
>>5769>nooo my daddy dint do nuttin!!absoloute state of zedcells.
No.5771
>>5770>hurr "muh daddy" No argument, cope harder projector
No.5773
>anarkiddie replies with some retarded yankee internet brained shit
classic
No.5774
>>5773>>5772>balding faggotNope, got a full head of hair here
>redditProjection yet again, never had an account, nor on titter or tumblr or any other of your 4chin stereotype sites. Cope more brainlet.
>atheist<implying I ever gave a damn about that retarded "muh religion debate" Man you really are full of boogiemen aren't you? Faggot.
No.5775
>>5774One thing Stalinists
and state socialists in general seem not to have a good answer for why did the Soviet Union reverted back to being market capitalist.
Let's be fair it wasn't communist either it was state capitalist economy The two most common answers I see is either Khrushchev
and some times Gorbachev took a big poo poo on the economy and caused it to revert back to the capitalist economy. And second being the people voted for it revert back to that of capitalist economy.
These arguments are both very faulty. The first one being that assumes that for Khrushchev to be able to take that big poo poo, he would need complete or at least near complete control of the government. For that to happen shows how easy it is for you take absolute control of the government which is failure of the soviet government. The second argument is faulty is because for it to be true the soviet government must of done a terrible job at giving a socialist education, which is also a failure on the soviet government. And to me the best way to experience a socialist education is live in a socialist economy. Both these 'excuses' push the blame on others with out preforming any self introspection.
No.5776
>>5761Yet Snyder is considered a real historian despite getting btfo by Furr. So maybe you should give him a chance for having exposed a huge anticommunist.
>>5775Wtf are you ranting about dude?
No.5777
>>5775your argument is inherently childish nonsense that completely ignores the impact of the reforms made specifically in gorbachev's and Khruschev's times that did reintroduce market aspects into the economy. Also your posilers are retardedly pointless
No.5778
>>5777Why where these reforms introduced.
No.5779
>>5742It's cool but feels too literal idk, might be a personal taste
No.5780
>>5775>The first one being that assumes that for Khrushchev to be able to take that big poo poo, he would need complete or at least near complete control of the government. For that to happen shows how easy it is for you take absolute control of the government which is failure of the soviet government.Khrushchev launched a military coup, acting as the agent of careerist burocrats.
https://mltheory.wordpress.com/2019/05/07/the-khrushchev-coup-death-of-stalin-khrushchevs-rise-to-power/<Khruschchev rose to power via an undemocratic military takeover, a coup de tat, and used the military to kill, imprison, intimidate and marginalize his enemies.<According to historian Iuri Zhukov, Khrushchev managed to win some of the party bureaucracy on his side by opposing Stalin’s proposed democratic and egalitarian reforms which were supported by Malenkov and Beria. No.5781
Deceptive little shit acts like he will teach me medieval english only to chase trotskyite infiltration?! This won't go with me, no sir, this guy should be purged for dishonesty toward the working class
No.5782
>>5689We need more pastas like this
No.5788
>>5787>thailand, china, that one dot in myanmar…how?
No.5790
>ydnwsovd1ut61.png
No.5793
A reformed Eurocommunist post-Marxist New Leftist Frankfurt School professor and social democrat was teaching a class on Nikita Khrushchev, known revisionist.
"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Leon Trotsky as the most class conscious revolutionary of all time and accept the Fourth International as the only legitimate representative of the interests of the workers of the world!"
At this moment a brave, revolutionary, unreformed Stalinist NKVD veteran who had an appreciation for socialist realist art and read a chapter of Capital every night before going to sleep stood up and waved the red flag. "If Trotsky was so great, why wasn't the revolution permanent?"
The arrogant professor smirked quite bourgeoisly and smugly replied, "Because the Soviet Union was a deformed workers state, you idiot gerontocrat!"
"Wrong. Comrade Stalin purged Russia of the kulaks and all enemies of the workers. If your theory of revolution was correct, we would have achieved communism by now."
The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of A People's History of the United States. He stormed out of the room crying those social-fascist crocodile tears. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, Noam Chomsky, wished he had adopted the policies of the Third Period and become more than an infantile leftist bourgeois stooge. He wished so much that he had not betrayed the revolution, but he himself had sold it out!
The students applauded and all sang the State Anthem of the USSR and accepted Socialism in One Country as the best path forward for proletarian cause. An eagle named "Slavoj Zizek" flew into the room and perched atop a copy of "Pravda" and sniffed snot onto its print. The last sentence of the "The Communist Manifesto" was read several times, and Sergei Eisenstein himself showed up and demonstrated how to roll a baby down the Odessa steps. The professor lost his tenure and was taken out back and shot the next day. He loved Big Brother.
The student's name? Lavrentiy Beria.
No.5795
>>5794why did they make trotsky look cool
No.5797
>>5796Stalin rehabilitated the Church
he doesn't deserve the honor of satanic imagery
No.5798
>>5792LOL and he is doing the Kazatsky kick
No.5799
>>5661>at best you can only claim he is biased - his sources are rock-solid. people like to use argument from authority against him by pointing out that he "merely" has a degree in medieval history and that thefore, this somehow discredits his works on soviet history, which draw heavily from sources he was the first to translate into English
No.5800
>>5671>Robert Conquestthat dude personally revived holodomor by reworking the entire myth to match the statistics of soviet mass industrialization. What started as an easily debunked lie in the 30s got teeth when he re-tooled it to match the data.
No.5801
>>5799Are there really no other English-speaking scientific socialist historical materialists that go over the USSR with more appropriate credentials?
No.5802
>>5801historians can't do soviet apologetics in western academia
bolshevism is the toppest thought crime
No.5803
>>5793>If Trotsky was so great, why wasn't the revolution permanentbecause of the political ascendancy of the bureaucracy in the USSR, and the failure of revolution to spread in Europe. Both of which fed into each other. Which is to say, because of misleadership of the working class.
No.5809
>>5808This rules. Did you talk about Mao drunk to the store owners?
Did you call him a based retard? No.5810
>>5809I was focused on the shitty ramen I bought tbh and the cashier was white but I remember explaining to my sister I was with why mao was a great dude
No.5811
>>5810is your sister a commie too
No.5812
>>5808Awesome. Would see stars if I just happened to come across that in a Chinese food's store lol
No.5813
>>5791>>5790>>5789 >2012 reddit copeLMAO
>>5801 J. Arch Getty and a handful of others can be called relatively reliable sources bu they'r not pro-Soviet per se. Furr is one of the only ones in the West that made dedicated efforts to translating and writing about the USSR and surrounding topics, Lenin-hat said it all in
>>5802 >>5803 Given the failures in Germany, France and Poland, that had many regards better material grounds for a fully socialist revolution in the sense Marx intended compared to Russia, it isn't surprising.
No.5815
Guys grover furr is ally of the infracels fuck this racist chauvinist nazi
No.5816
Grover Furr's dull propaganda is not even Bad History, it's no history at all.
Grover Furr is a neo-Stalinist professor who has published quite a few articled defending Stalin and denying his crimes.
His usual m. o. #1:
Skim through some marginal Stalinist source in Russian and absorb its main talking points.
Without however paying attention to detail.
Don't do the actual research, even about the basics.
Reproduce the resulting jumble for "Western" consumption.
Example: from "The “Official” Version of the Katyn Massacre Disproven? Discoveries at a German Mass Murder Site in Ukraine", Socialism and Democracy, 2013, vol. 27, issue 2, pp. 96-129:
The 1943 German report on Katyn states that the following item was found in one of the mass graves:
eine ovale Blechmarke unter den Asservaten vor, die folgende Angaben enthält T. K. UNKWD K. O. 9424 Stadt Ostaschkow
[…] probable English translation would be: Prison Kitchen, NKVD Directorate, Kalinin Oblast’ [prisoner, or cell, or badge number] 9 4 2 4 town of Ostashkov
None of the “transport lists” from the camp at Ostashkov were for transport to Katyn or anywhere near Smolensk. All these lists state that the Polish prisoners were sent to Kalinin. Therefore the person buried at Katyn who had this badge in his possession had been shipped to Kalinin. But, obviously, he was not shot there. The badge was unearthed at Katyn. Therefore, the owner of this badge was also shot at Katyn, or nearby
The "prison kitchen" thing comes straight from the Russian denial literature (actually T. K. means trudovaya koloniya, work colony), which is how we know where Furr got this "argument". Needless to say, Furr is deeply ignorant of the fact that POWs were sent from camp to camp, like the 112 people transferred from Ostashkov to Kozielsk on 19.11.1939. So literally none of Furr's conclusions follow.
His usual m. o. #2: if the evidence seems to support Stalin, just jump to conclusion without sufficient data or research.
The example above also belongs here, but here is another one, which is the thrust of the above article:
In 2011 and 2012 a joint Polish-Ukrainian archeological team partially excavated a mass execution site at the town of Volodymyr Volyns’kiy, Ukraine. Shell cases found in the burial pit prove that the executions there took place no earlier than 1941. In the burial pit were found the badges of two Polish policemen previously thought to have been murdered hundreds of miles away by the Soviets in April–May 1940. These discoveries cast serious doubt on the canonical, or “official,” version of the events known to history as the Katyn Massacre.
He then goes on and on about how these finds allegedly disprove the Soviet guilt for Katyn. Except… they don't. The badges were found not on the corpses but in the bulk layer with rubbish (household items etc.) above the corpses. The archival research showed that at least one of the policemen was detained in Volodymyr Volynski for weeks in 1939. Which means that his badge (and probably that of the other policeman, about whom less is known) was taken from him then, and when the Germans overtook the prison they eventually disposed of the useless inmates' belongings (still kept in the prison) in the burial area (Ubity v Kalinine, zakhoroneny v Mednom, 2019, vol. 1, pp. 79-81).
His usual m. o. #3: simply accept the Stalinist claims at face value while ignoring the documents undermining them.
E. g. he notoriously accepts the coerced testimonies for the Moscow show trials. The problem? He doesn't deal with most of the veritable mountain of evidence that these testimonies and the trials were staged.
Or, to continue with his Katyn article, he simply accepts the authenticity of the documents alleged to have been found by the Soviets in the graves, without addressing the fact that the "key" ones must be fake, to wit: the allegedly exhumed "documents" of Araszkiewicz and Lewandowski mention absolutely non-existent "ON" POW camps and the Poles in question as POWs later than the spring of 1940, yet we know that these camps never existed not only because there is not a single trace of them in the GUPVI archive (or any trace in real life), but because we have summary documents from the period in question listing all the groups of Polish POWs and the camps where they reside. No "ON" camps are mentioned, and the "missing" Polish POWs in question are listed as transferred to UNKVD in April-May 1940. So whatever happened to them, they were no longer POWs at the time these reports were filed, so the "found" "documents" cannot be authentic. And so, once again, nothing that Furr claims follows from these "documents" actually follows.
This is not history. Not even "bad history" per se. It's basically pure propaganda.
For more on Furr see my articles:
https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2020/01/looking-for-katyn-lighthouses.htmlhttp://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2007/03/and-now-for-something-not-completely.htmlhttp://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2019/08/again-about-stalinist-deniers-yes.html No.5819
>>5816I was wondering how long it would take for someone to post this.
No.5820
>>5818 >>5816 Truly this shitty reddit-spaced fallacious diatribe is an embodiment of Bad-Faith Discussion
>neo-stalinistNot a real thing, Stalinism isn't even an advertised ideology
>who has published quite a few articled defending Stalin and denying his crimes Sure anon, nice strawman representation totally not proving your obvious and extreme bias
>Skim through some marginal Stalinist source in Russian and absorb its main talking points. Without however paying attention to detail. <making claim having no real evidenceOk fag
>see my articles <holocaustcontroversies Yeah no
1 - this is very unlikely to be your site
2 - The entire "debunk" is just taking out of context quotes and only some of the citations and making statements of "dats rong!" and then providing very poorly cited ALSO out of context "information" that is then extrapolated as debunking the specifically cropped quotes being fallacied.
Your "first mo" attempt encapsulates this, taking a tiny excerpt completely out of context and completely lacking the citation or original Russian documents that Furr cites so that reading this article in a vaccum I have to take your word that Furr said this in this context that you present.
>Furr is deeply ignorant of the fact that POWs were sent from camp to campNo he is not, you're not presenting the actual argument Furr is making, you're strawmanning one out of an excerpt
>"German documents say diss so its tru, but Soviet documents are icky and rong!"LMAO this shit is liberal central, German documents are totally legit despite it being a fact that they regularly made shit up for PR, Katyn especially.
>The badges were found not on the corpses but in the bulk layer with rubbish (household items etc.) above the corpses. The archival research showed that at least one of the policemen was detained in Volodymyr Volynski for weeks in 1939. Which means that his badge (and probably that of the other policeman, about whom less is known) was taken from him then, and when the Germans overtook the prison they eventually disposed of the useless inmates' belongings (still kept in the prison) in the burial areaExcept the Germans conveniently somehow knew to bury them in the same spot as the bodies and somehow did not discover said bodies until 1943, despite the badges being tossed there a year ago or more. Moreover the decay of the bodies and the presence of dated letters and personal effects that dated to after the Soviets left is evidence Furr goes into but is ignored by you. Even more importantly your source is an article made by the Memorial project of Russia, a site that is dedicated to creating scare-stories about the Gulag and has been caught repeatedly making things up and even presenting forged documents and being disproven multiple times, such as in regards to the "Serpantinka" myth that got popularized by ВДудь in his expose about Kolyma that got debunked by Tubus Show.
>simply accept the Stalinist claims at face value while ignoring the documents undermining them.Nope the "coerced testimony" revisionism is not confirmed by any concrete evidence and multiple people that witnessed the trial including American Diplomat and non-Communist former Lawyer Joseph Davies, among other people, and this is further seen in the documented testimonies and in the face of those that had been wrongfully accused (such as Rokossovsky) holding strong and refusing to take blame for accusations levied by the Troika courts.
>we know that these camps never existed not only because there is not a single trace of them in the GUPVI archive (or any trace in real life), but because we have summary documents from the period in question listing all the groups of Polish POWs and the camps where they reside. SO you claim yet you present no citations for us to check this nor a proper citation for us to see if Furr actually made this claim at all, or the context of such a citation if he had actually used it. Moreover you seem to forget the loss of documents and a dirge of fake documents on Polish POWs including those supposedly of the GUPVI. And unlike your dismissal of Furr, you cannot dismiss the trial of the CPSU and the reveal that the many secret documents about Katyn presented at the trial had been dismissed because they had been forgeries.
>nothing that Furr claims follows from these "documents" actually follows.So you claim yet all you have demonstrated is cherry-picking and copy-pasta. Go fuck yourself Revisionist, Goebbels thanks you for your diligent propaganda.
>>5819It's a copy-pasta from leftpol
No.5822
No.5823
Furr's positions are not supported whatsoever. Literally no major historians of the Purges – Getty, Fitzpatrick, Khlevniuk, etc. – believe that the Moscow Trials were fair or accurate. A quick search on JSTOR will reveal that Furr is neither published nor cited in any peer-reviewed Russian history journal in English, save for a single book review in the Russian History Review. So, not only do professional historians disagree with Furr, they almost universally ignore him as well. In fact the only relevant place he does appear is in a footnote in a paper by J. Arch Getty thanking him for certain information. This is important because Furr relies heavily on Getty and often insinuates that he and Getty have identical views. This, however, is false. For instance: through archival research in the Trotsky papers at Harvard, Getty discovered that Trotsky had connections with a "bloc" in 1932 but concludes that "Trotsky envisioned no 'terrorist' role for the bloc."1 Furr, on the other hand, proclaims that "Getty's discovery in the Trotsky archive corroborates the testimony of the Moscow Trial defendants."2 He further argues that evidence of this bloc's existence past 1932 and its terrorist activities in Trotsky's correspondence have, quite simply, been scrubbed or hidden from the archives.3
This brings us to our second point. Why is Grover Furr not taken seriously in academic Russian history? The answer that there is a concerted effort by professional historians and academic institutions to suppress the truth by falsifying evidence and marginalizing Furr is about as plausible as the claim Big Pharma is suppressing studies that prove herbal remedies cure cancer. The reason is much simpler: quite frankly, Furr's work is amateur and wouldn't even get a passing grade in a decently rigorous undergraduate course. It's laden with dubious argumentation and poor source evaluation.
To give a specific example, let's look at Furr's approach to the lack of non-Soviet sources corroborating or confirming the central charges of the Moscow Trials which pretty much all revolve around collaboration with foreign powers. Furr begins by noting that
In countries still extant it is normal to keep intelligence archives secret indefinitely. This is certainly the case in the USA. We suggest it is logical to suspect the same thing in the case of Germany and Japan.4
This rather conveniently ignores that not only is Nazi Germany no longer extant, but that many of the important government archives in Berlin were under the Soviet occupation zone in Berlin, and neither East German nor Soviet scholars who had access to such documents were known for their fondness for Trotskyists.5 He then goes on to note that there is a "great deal of evidence" that Tukhachevsky with collaborated the Germans – and, in the next sentence, admits that "we have only indirect confirmation of this from German archives" and only "somewhat more direct" from the Czech archives.6 He provides citations for neither "confirmation," nor is it clear what a "somewhat more direct" confirmation is compared to an "indirect" one. In another smoking gun, he brings up that "[r]umor, at least, of [the Moscow Trial defendants'] collaboration [with German General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord] evidently survived in Hammerstein's family."7 He follows up on all this by saying that the lack of evidence doesn't matter anyway, because "no one should expect a conspiracy like this be documented anywhere, ever, much less in 'in archives.'"8 He cites in his favor the lack of documentation for "the successful conspiracy against Lavrentii Beria," which "must have involved at least half a dozen men." This explanation rather conveniently elides the fact that the coup against Beria involved a handful of people over the course of a couple months at most, as opposed to an alleged clandestine terrorist organization involving thousands of people that operated over years and collaborated with state-level actors. Given the fact we do in fact have documentation for clandestine terrorist organizations at this scale in other instances, it is a bit implausible that no documents exist for this particular case.
Furr, of course, then quickly says there are non-Soviet documents that confirm or corroborate the Moscow Trials charges! He cites four documents:
An admission by the Japanese Minister of War that they were collaborating with "oppositionists," cited in "Soviet Links Tokyo With 'Trotskyism'" in the New York Times, March 2 1937.9 A quick look at this article from the NYT archives reveals it is a dispatch from Vladivostok from the Tass News Agency made by Walter Duranty. Furr either didn't read this carefully or he's deliberately lying about its "non-Soviet" nature.
An "Arao telegram," which was "extant at least in 1962-1963 though never heard from since."10 Generally speaking it's considered bad form to cite texts whose existence is uncertain and whose contents unverifiable – not that he actually reproduces the text of the "telegram" anyway.
A document "in the Czech national archives," "corroborated by correspondence found in German archives."11 In the footnote he notes that "these documents have long been acknowledged by Western and Russian scholars" but neglects to actually tell us which documents these are. Once again, no text is reproduced.
A private admission by NKVD general Lyushkov that there were conspirators working with Tukhachevsky to collaborate with the Japanese military to "inflict defeat upon the Soviet military."12 He cites Alvin D. Coox's two-part article "The Lesser of Two Hells: NKVD General G.S. Lyushkov's Defection to Japan, 1938-1945" but fails to provide a page number (joy!). Nevertheless it appears to be based on a passage from the second part where Lyushkov lists Tukhachevsky as part of a faction in the Red Army which "favored a military putsch."13 Furr, however, neglects to note Coox himself is rather skeptical of taking Lyushov's statements at face value, noting they "reflect[ed] to a degree what his hosts must have wanted to hear."14 In effect, he's cherry-picked a statement from a very long article, much of which does not really support Furr's argument at all.
I could go on, but the whole book is like this – in fact, all his books are like this. He is sloppy with "citations" and cherrypicks constantly. He exhibits classic denialist and conspiracy theory tropes: all the real evidence is purged or missing and all the evidence to the contrary is forged or irrelevant. Lack of evidence is explained away as being part of the conspiracy. He relies on a sympathetic ear and an unwillingness to actually follow up on sources to be taken seriously by anybody.
1 J. Arch Getty, Origins of the Great Purges (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1987), 121
2 Grover Furr, Evidence of Leon Trotsky's Collaboration With Germany and Japan, 32
3 ibid, 38-39
4 ibid, 30
5 Although rather amusingly he suggests on the same page that Khrushchev possibly had the Soviet archives purged of references to Trotsky's guilt. Although in the mind of an unreconstructed Stalinist Khrushchev might be a Trotskyite, it is worth noting Trotsky was never rehabilitated by the Soviet government and that his literature remained banned until glasnost.
6 Furr, 30
7 ibid
8 ibid, 31
9 ibid, 32-33
10 ibid, 33
11 ibid
12 ibid
13 Alvin B Coox, "The Lesser of Two Hells: NKVD General G.S. Lyushov's Defection to Japan, 1938-1945, Part II," The Journal of Slavic Military Studies 11, no. 4 (1998), 85
14 Alvin B Coox, "The Lesser of Two Hells: NKVD General G.S. Lyushov's Defection to Japan, 1938-1945, Part I," The Journal of Slavic Military Studies 11, no. 3 (1998), 149
No.5824
Grover Furr is to Stalin what David Irving is to Hitler.
No.5825
>>5575one of the best and most capable historians of the Stalin period without a question, he goes in to source his sources and even translate untranslated documents of the soviet government to english for the first time.
most of the arguments against this great historian is the same against Douglas Tottle, not actual question to his book, but trying to ruin his reputation to not act in his critics, with stuff like that he is not an actual period so it's invalid, but most of the historians they exalt are not expecialist to any soviet period and most of the time are mercenaries to the service of states enemy to the soviet union thus invalid, like Robert Conquest and Hannah Arendt.
recomendable to all.
No.5826
>>5823>poorly cited, copy-pasta rant Anon, just fuck off, it's boring deciphering this inane garbage
>A quick search on JSTOR <The professor that decries cold war revisionism in a blatant opposition of the status quo of Porky propaganda is not published by Porky who'd a thunk it possible!
>professional historians Laughable, meaningless term. Robert Conquest and Timothy Snyder are called "professional historians" yet are not. Even if not in regards to Sovietology, Furr is a professional historian by that metric and if anything study of Medieval documentation and historiography is a lot harder than the much more documented 20th century.
> the only relevant place he does appear is in a footnote in a paper by J. Arch Getty thanking him for certain informationAnd considering Getty is one of the most respected in his field and has had not gone on rants attacking Furr and actually used information he provided directly is indication of much. Even more so Getty worked alongside Gabor and Rittersporn in collaboration with the information dug up by Victor Zmskov on the Gulags that the latter got directly from the archives, being among the very few to have had access to them.
>Furr relies heavily on Getty and often insinuates that he and Getty have identical viewsNo he does not, Getty is not a communist or pro-Stalin and Furr knows this, Furr specifically refers to Getty as making the same conclusions as he about the situation even as a person that does not have a bias for Stalin as Furr admits he does, this is specifically to provide a demonstration of Objectivity.
>Trotsky had connections with a "bloc" in 1932 but concludes that "Trotsky envisioned no 'terrorist' role for the bloc.<that "Getty's discovery in the Trotsky archive corroborates the testimony of the Moscow Trial defendants."These are not mutually exclusive, that is not the accusation levied against Trotsky's main and direct collaborators, that is the accusation levied against other defendants of the trials in regards to their collaboration with foreign powers such as relaying state secrets to military attaches about troop movements or directing state objects such as priority factories and making them targets for sabotage, something well recorded as happening and the animosity of outside countries was very open as if the Intervention did not make this clear.
So to conclude you are taking 2 statements and blatantly trying to tie them together, ignoring that the Moscow Trials are more than an accusation of Trotsky starting a bloc, and had served to address all the 5th Column efforts in the USSR at the time, in the military, party and economic sectors, that is the reason those had been the primary areas that had people affected.
I am not addressing the rest of your drivel because its the same false narrative that this has been - comparing 2 out of context things to make a false conclusion.
No.5828
>>5811I asked, she said she was an anarchist, just as well, I love her and so should you.
No.5831
>>5826This is the kind of cognitive dissonance and schizophrenic tinfoil hat thinking you see with covid conspiracy theorists and cultists. You have debunked none of my points. It is clear that there is no point trying to address your drivel further because you've already come to a predetermined conclusion and won't budge no matter what evidence is put forward. This is your brain on ideology folks.
No.5832
>>5827And are the Feds in the room with you right now, anon? How fascinating. Make sure to use aluminium foil to counteract their electromagnetic rays.
No.5833
>>5826It's funny how /pol/-tards also post uncited photos of greentext gibberish as proof that the "holocaust was a myth".
I guess Stalin apologists and Nazis have a lot in common. Horseshoe theory confirmed!
No.5834
>>5826>No he does not, Getty is not a communist or pro-Stalin and Furr knows this, Furr specifically refers to Getty as making the same conclusions as he about the situation even as a person that does not have a bias for Stalin as Furr admits he does, this is specifically to provide a demonstration of Objectivity. Source?
>something well recorded as happening and the animosity of outside countries was very open as if the Intervention did not make this clear.source?
>to address all the 5th Column efforts in the USSR at the timeSource about the existence of this 5th column?
No.5835
>>5834>reddit spacing>S-sourceIf you're not going to provide a real source I have no reason to bother, except to say I actually read Furr and his sources.
>Source about the existence of this 5th column<imagine being this bad faith and implying imperial countries that actively or passively attacked the USSR politically and economically wouldn't employ sabotage.LMAO GTFO.
>>5831>>5832>>5833 >imagine being so assmad that you respond 4 times to the same person and still have nothing to say LMAO
>And are the Feds in the room <D-deh CIA totally doesn't spread propaganda online and post in imageboards, pls forget the past decade of FBI and CIA agents getting caught posting on 4chan, 8ch and other sites! Cope
>Make sure to use aluminium foil to counteract their electromagnetic rays. <hurr I used de conspiritard meme, I'm smart! You're too obvious fed
>This is the kind of cognitive dissonance and schizophrenic tinfoil hat thinking you see with covid conspiracy theorists and cultistsOh so you're that projecting fedbot from a couple months ago, go back to your hole Big Pharmoid
>You have debunked none of my pointsSure I have, because your points are blatant manipulations that distort the context of the sources you use and poorly cite and demonstrate a clear agenda in creating a false narrative.
>/pol/-tards also post uncited photos of greentext <Posting greentext screencaps on a chan is /pol/!Lukr Moar redditor and you conveniently ignore the sources cited in said greentext, cry harder.
>as proof that the "holocaust was a myth" <Hurr debunking anti-Soviet myths is the same as Holocaust denial! Muh Horshoe theory!Yeah yeah yeah, Stalin is le evil like Hitler and blah blah blah, nobody cares. Go back, you failed your training.
No.5836
>>5834>Source about the existence of this 5th column? <S-source about le GettyJoseph Davies:
"[T]he best judgment seems to believe that in all probability there was a definite conspiracy in the making looking to a coup d’état by the army — not necessarily anti-Stalin, but antipolitical and antiparty, and that Stalin struck with characteristic speed, boldness and strength.’”
“Had a fine talk with Litvinov. I told him quite frankly the reactions in U.S. and Western Europe to the purges; and to the executions of the Red Army generals; that it definitely was bad… Litvinov was very frank. He stated that they had to ‘make sure’ through these purges that there was no treason left which could co-operate with Berlin or Tokyo; that someday the world would understand that what they had done was to protect the government from ‘menacing treason.’ In fact, he said they were doing the whole world a service in protecting themselves against the menace of Hitler and Nazi world domination, and thereby preserving the Soviet Union strong as a bulwark against the Nazi threat. That the world would appreciate what a very great man Stalin was.”
"The Attorney General [Vyshinsky] is a man of about 60 and is much like Homer Cummings; calm, dispassionate, intellectual, and able and wise. He conducted the treason trial in a manner that won my respect and admiration as a lawyer."
"From reports of the previous trials the present case differed in the opinion of many observers here in that there was practically unanimity of confessions here, also greater corroboration, and a more general opinion on the part of disinterested observers that an actual conspiracy was shown to exist against the Soviet government. With an interpreter at my side, I followed the testimony carefully."
"Naturally I must confess that I was predisposed against the credibility of the testimony of these defendants. The unanimity of their confessions, the fact of their long imprisonment with the possibility of duress and coercion extending to themselves or their families, all gave me grave doubts as to the reliability that could attach to their statements. Viewed objectively, however, and based upon my experience in the trial of cases and the application of the tests of credibility which past experience had afforded me, I arrived at the reluctant conclusion that the state had established its case, at least to the extent of proving the existence of a widespread conspiracy and plot among the political leaders against the Soviet government, and which under their statutes established the crimes set forth in the indictment…. I am still impressed with the many indications of credibility which obtained in the course of the testimony. To have assumed that this proceeding was invented and staged as a project of dramatic political fiction would be to presuppose the creative genius of a Shakespeare and the genius of a Belasco in stage production. The historical background and surrounding circumstances also lend credibility to the testimony. The reasoning which Sokolnikov and Radek applied in justification of their various activities and their hoped-for results were consistent with probability and entirely plausible."
"The lesser accused, who were merely tools, amplified in great circumstantial detail their chronicle of crime, and in many instances gave indications that what they were then stating was being uttered for the first time. These and other facts, which I saw, compelled the belief that there may have been much redundant embroidery in the testimony, but that the consistent vein of truth ran through the fabric, establishing a definite political conspiracy to overthrow the present government."
"On the face of the record in this case it would be difficult for me to conceive of any court, in any jurisdiction, doing other than adjudging the defendants guilty of violations of the law as set forth in the indictment and as defined by the statutes."
"I have talked to many, if not all, of the members of the Diplomatic Corps here and, with possibly one exception, they are all of the opinion that the proceedings established clearly the existence of a political plot and conspiracy to overthrow the government."
"The circumstantial detail, apparently at times surprising even to the prosecutor as well as to other defendants, which was brought out by the various accused, gave unintended corroboration to the gist of the charges. The manner of testifying of various accused and their bearing on the stand also had weight with me. The dispassionate, logical, detailed statement of Pyatakov and the impression of despairing candor, with which he gave it, carried conviction. So, too, with Sokolnikov. The old general, Muralov, was particularly impressive. He carried himself with a fine dignity and with the forthrightness of an old soldier. In his “last plea” he said:… 'I refuse counsel and I refuse to speak in my defense because I am used to defending myself with good weapons and attacking with good weapons. I have no good weapons with which to defend myself…. I don’t dare blame anyone for this; I, myself, am to blame. This is my difficulty. This is my misfortune….'"
Also
“There are increasing signs the Russian trials are not faked, but that there is a plot among those who look upon Stalin as a stupid reactionary who has betrayed the ideas of the revolution.” –Comrade Einstein speaking against critics of the trials of traitors within the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
No.5837
>>5835>>5835So no source then? 😂
No.5838
>>5836BAHAHAHA
I’m unsure if you’re trolling or just genuinely retarded. That’s the only source you could find LMAO OH NONONO NOT DAVIES 😂
Charles Bohlen:
“Ambassador Davies was not noted for an acute understanding of the Soviet system, and he had an unfortunate tendency to take what was presented at the trial as the honest and gospel truth. I still blush when I think of some of the telegrams he sent to the State Department about the trial.(p.51)
I can only guess at the motivation for his reporting. He ardently desired to make a success of a pro-Soviet line and was probably reflecting the views of some of Roosevelt's advisors to enhance his political standing at home.(p.52)”
Groverfags are something else
No.5839
>>5838Charles E. Bohlen (1973) Witness to History, New York: Norton.
Career diplomat who served with Davies in Moscow
No.5840
>>5838>>5839>U-ur retarded Projection machine? Meet Mirror.
>an excerpt making a unfounded, unexplained claim that "he didn't understand and totally just repeated Roosevelt" A random, very short excerpt ignoring that, until the War, Roosevelt made his campaign on the basis of moderate social democracy, and in doing so prevented socialist uprising in the USA as he himself stated. This speaks of much considering that the USA has forever been a geopolitical opponent of the USSR. Bohlen's claim boils down to "He's wrong because he wuz pro-commie" despite Davies repeatedly being very reluctant to buy into the Soviet line and being very skeptical of the USSR in general, an opinion that made him hesitate to take the position of Diplomat initially, as he, a libertarian and non-communist upperclass man did not have many sympathies for "gommies".
I find it interesting that the book you refer to is from the 70s, decades after, and during the height of the Cold War, given the mainstream literature on the USSR of the time consisted of anti-communist scare-stories and highly opinionated "memoirs" following a carefully mandated narrative, I have no reason to believe this attack on Davies as anything but character assassination to counter leftists bringing up his memoirs.
The problem is that Davies' narrative is backed by many, MANY other sources and historians. So to summarize your post is nothing but attacking the source and not addressing the argument, not that you do anything other than that to begin with. Keep
>>5837 >No source then<N-no u!You forgot your faggot flag
No.5841
>>5840I have no reason to believe this attack on Charles Bohlen as anything but character assassination to counter leftists critiquing Davies.
Right so we have two US diplomats giving contradictory opinions on the validity of the Moscow Trials. A classic he said she said. Doesn’t seem to be anything further from this line of questioning.
So would you have any other sources to justify your claim or is Davies all you got 😂
Kind regards.
No.5842
>>5841>reddit spacing >emojis>"N-no U">forgotten flag Cope harder
>A classic he said she said Nope. One demonstration is a thorough explanation of the Trials, the other is just saying 'N-no he'z rong and totally lieks de gommies".
Keep your snide trash to yourself, thanks.
No.5843
>>5842>reddit spacinghow about you go to space and blow your brains out?
imageboardcel 🤣
No.5844
>>5739>Now I’m signin’ treaties w/ Ribbentrop >just like the Alliesftfy
No.5845
If you think about it, Stalin did nothing wrong like he did nothing right, he's just a man making his life as it went. He was the cog people who hate or love him want to shine a light on, but a cog nonetheless. Let's be a good human bravely saying death and suffering are bad, but now imagine you need to govern a country against another power that literally wants to exterminate everyone of your population, you didn't expect that so soon because you're a little stupid, and petty and you generally suck. But what about it? You made it, you fought back, and the new world order was shaped after all that. You're the general secretary, even if you manipulated the higher orders of the communist party while killing the majority of whatever opponents could come in your way, there's nothing now. You tried to assassinate Tito a few times but it didn't work out, and you're so afraid of death that you've stopped because of the fear a simple telegram instigated in you. You killed or made people hide so much that the next guy after you was Khrushchev. You made so much about you, and you pushed so many of the capable people, that we got Khrushchev, that we got a fucking thread about a crazy English teacher who is still absolutely and objectively respectable for his capacity for troll; but a cook still.
No.5846
Highest testosterone historian
No.5847
>>5575I'm gonna be deleting stupid incel threads, sex complaining threads, soy threads and so on, until board quality improves. Fair warning.
No.5848
>>5847Incel threads are made by people from 9chan's /leftcel/ btw.
No.5849
>>5847Has there been a vote on that?
No.5850
>>5847mods are the lowest quality posters on this website, I don't know if you're the best person to decide
No.5851
>>5848Probably.
>>5849We discussed it and nobody objects.
>>5850Sorry you feel that way.
No.5852
>>5847What took you so long?
No.5853
>>5852don't ask stupid questions, just send reports
No.5855
>>5854France would have fared much better in that format.
No.5858
>>5847How about you stop moderating the literal /b/ thread and start moderating leftypol, and putting threads in the correct boards.
No.5860
>>5857didn't read
why haven't you kys, weirdo?
No.5861
>>5858>go kill some threadsbad idea, mods
No.5862
Grover Furr came in my bedroom last night and he whispered to my ear some squeaky shit, is this normal?
No.5863
boutta get that GET
No.5865
>>5862>>5863Maybe this thread should not be at the forefront of the fun part of our beloved website.
No.5866
>>5865I agree, it was only still preserved here to keep the get since moving would change the numba
No.5869
How does the archive on /siberia/ work exactly? I'm trying to find the burgerpunk thread.
No.5870
>>5869It's a proper board with posting disabled.
>>>/siberia_archive/1316I've asked mods to put the link in the OP of the current thread.
No.5875
Facts about nature:
For every duck there's a grain of sand that resembles a cock.
Saber toothed tiger fangs are not teeth, they are hard rape penises for penetrating non-consenting prey.
Conservatives are mammals and they love their mama.
For every cuck, there's a duck penetrating a rock with the cuck's wife. Shameful.
No.5878
>>5877we can only eat ass
No.5879
> Brain fax:
Loneliness is a word.
Hygiene is good until it's not.
Cows can piss on your naked body and you won't even realize that if you are dead.
We are all jews until some jews thought they are more jewish than others jews and their craziness drove us away into more tame jewish fate like christinianity and ismlalmam.
Thanking god for something good is like thanking water for being composed of h2o.
The name Lomofsikoniska Harkonvitch is one you didn't read.
Happy bidding on an easier next life if you believe in reincarnation. if you are born a girl and it's not in developed country, you are screwed literally and figuratively.
You were born in another planet to a single father; but, because he bamboozled the government out of 50 million Chfikes, he was sentenced to death. You had your memories removed and set to grow up in this planet – earth – afterwards, hence your odd nature and uncanny feeling like you are out of place. You later realize that your father uncovered a government's secret plan to kill Horobits and steal their Chungus so they span this narrative of bamboozling government funds to kill him. Now you're seeking revenge.
Cows did indeed piss on your naked body and you did not feel it because you were dead.
There are ghosts in my room. they say they love you and have great day.
No.5880
>>5879Tf did I just read?
No.5881
>>5880Truth, a concept that may seem crazy for Furr enjoyers
No.5882
>>5879I want to be a cyborg so I can have body mods that turn my face into a soft-serve machine so whenever I want I can just take out a small cone and one of my eyes opens up and dispenses soft-serve and I eat it
No.5885
So yeah, gotta ask, how do we take this thread down?
No.5886
>>5885they typically are taken down when they hit limit 500 replies
No.5890
>>5885>>5888crashing this thread, with no survivors!~!
also
SEX WITH DENMARK No.5891
>>5890This thread ain't crashing until we get it at 600 posts, there is work to do and
sex with denmark to be had
No.5892
>>5891THE SEX COMES LATER
UNLIKE DENMARK!
No.5893
>>5892but I want denmark sex now
No.5894
>>5893find your local dennys
No.5896
>>5895Conquer some dennies then
No.5897
>>5895>>5896lol
F my mongolian brother/sister/nb
No.5900
Death to this threed
No.5903
>>5902report button, nerd
No.5904
>>5903We did, it just took longer than expected to get removed so we were trying to get the mods' attention.
No.5905
>>5900we'll uncycle it when you get the 333333 get
No.5908
>> 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘶𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺
No.5909
grover furfag
No.5910
>>332207
Marxism-Leninism-Furrism-Yeism synthesis
No.5911
Who go >>333333
No.5913
china hates me cuz i'm so handsome. what do i do? ohhhh chiwawa
No.5916
>>5915 thx 4 fulfilling my parents' sexual needs mao
No.5918
>>5658After the revolution we will be publishing a Grover Furr Collected Works series.
No.5919
>>5918with a foreword by Comrade Leninhat
No.5920
>>5919"Grover Furr and why the covid vaccine is a trotskyist plot"
No.5921
>>5919"How and why the vlazovite renegades falsified history, an introduction to Grover Furr works"
No.5922
>>5921I agree to disagree
No.5924
The thing I really like about Planes is that we learn that WWII happened in the Cars universe. Which means there was a Cars Stalin, a Cars holodomor, a Cars cheka, a Cars Battle of Kursk, a Cars purging all the old bolsheviks, a Cars Katyn massacre, a Cars jewish doctor assassinating Stalin…
This leads to so many important questions, like: were the Cars Little Boy and Fat Man nukes sentient? Was it a suicide mission? Are ALL Cars nuclear weapons sentient? Did Tsar Bomba have a personality? What kind of car was Car Stalin? A lada? A forklift?
Was there a Cars 9/11? Were the planes hijacked, or were the planes themselves radicalized? I could go on
No.5927
>>5926ofc I looked it up, stinky…
No.5928
0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin. All he has managed to do is make himself sad. He is starting to suspect Kras Mazov *fucked him over* personally with his socio-economic theory. It has, however, made him into a very, very smart boy with something like a university degree in Truth. Instead of building Communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.
No.5929
>>5928>0.000% of Communism has been built.I punched a cop once.
No.5930
>>5929One time I did a fuck ton of meth and established a communism in my living room
No.5932
>>5931dunno i went to my bedroom to jack off and when i returned after the third time it was gone.
No.5933
bssed
No.5934
>>5932dude I'm just like that, everytime I drop acid I solve the life and universe problem but then I forget
No.5935
>>5930Bruh….
>>5934As long as you remember you can't trust your brain, then it's definitely fun. I love that feeling.
No.5941
>>5917You forgot to do brother and sister
No.5942
>>5941Brothers and sisters are meant to do each other
No.5943
Friendly reminder there's no such thing as digital violence and electronic aggression LMAO
No.5944
>>5943"Just power off your computer" they tell me, but you'll see one day they will make water fountains for gamers and you will regret this
No.5945
>>5944I will BATHE in that fountain after MOTOCROSS in the RAIN like a NON GAMER
No.5946
It's January 6, 2021. You're in Washington D.C, a light cold breeze stings your balding head, but it's all right, you put your MAGA hat on. You came from far away, deep in the American Hinterlands, land of the brave and the free, home of the gun owners and meth cooks. There's electricity in the air, you can feel it on your skin, the capitol is not far now. You strain your overweight body with effort to climb the stairs, evicting tenants from your properties is a hard job for real Americans but it doesn't involve much physical activity. You hear a gunshot amid the clamor of the crowd, this is the real deal you think, we will finally take our country back you tell yourself. You tremble with excitement at the thought of the democrat plot to destroy America with cultural marxism being foiled. Your left arm feels stiff though and you're short of breath. It must be the climb, but the ache in your chest gets worse and soon enough you're on the ground, disorientated. You suspect this is the end of the line for you, but you're happy, you're sure Trump will be reinstated as the legitimate president and will save your country. You die in tranquility, unaware that your fellow american patriots will soon enough accuse you of being an antifa rioter participating in a false flag operation.
No.5947
grover "fart" furr
No.5948
Why are there two posts visible instead of just the usual one?
No.5949
>>5947more like grover fart haha
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