No.3080[View All]
Navy threadThread for all naval, maritime, ship, submarine & water craft discussion, seas, oceans, lakes, rivers & other bodies of water. Soviet & American shipping alike is welcome, as are civilian vessels. Video & images encouraged. Ekranoplanes & other marine aircraft also count.
Russian / USSR Naval sites:
https://flot.com/ https://war-book.ru/nashe-vremya/flot-ww3/ https://вооружение.рф/armaments/sredstva-voenno-morskogo-flota/ US / Western Navy sites (consume with copious amounts of table salt):
https://www.naval-technology.com/ https://www.navysite.de/index.htm https://www.navyrecognition.com/ P.S. Be civil on this Polynesian raft-roping forum.
106 posts and 47 image replies omitted. Click reply to view. No.4199
>>4151>nonta, and yes. Western sources have literally declared that their reports are part of a desperate information war and that lies are truth. The Russians are much more measured. The other 7 billion people in the world outside the west seem to agree with them.
No.4420
>>3645Same as any breaching armaments I suppose - carbine assault rifles, shot-guns and pistols for small-arms, and maybe an axe and breaching charges for breaking down doors and such. Also tear-gas grenade launchers to smoke out defensive positions. Hypothetically speaking of course.
TL;DR: The the same equipment requirements as for Naval Special Forces ops around the world.
No.4421
Returning to the topic of the Sea Drone threat to warships:
Ukraine finally sank its first ship using their drone boats. On the night of January 31st of 2024, Ukrainian drone boats launched a mass attack on the Project 1241.1 Molniya (NATO designation Tarantul-III Class) Guided Missile Corvette "Ivanovets". This was part of a recent mass assault on the Black Sea Fleet and its bases by Ukrainian drones and cruise missiles, guided by NATO reconnaissance aircraft flying over Romanian and International Waters, preventing them from being valid targets to shoot down. Most of the attacks have been successfully countered with most missiles and drones being shot down.
Unfortunately it is inevitable that some incoming may get through, especially with NATO's assistance. The Ivanovets was caught alone several kilometers out from Donuzlav naval base by 9 unmanned boats and sank by three impacts after a prolonged night battle wherein it managed to destroy several attacking boats before being hit. The crew evacuated after the third impact and later the Moskit anti-ship missiles it carried detonated, sinking the ship.
The Black Sea Fleet has been tangling with this drone threat for the past 2 years and this is the first actual resulting loss. Prior drone attacks have mostly failed, with dozens being destroyed or disabled without reaching their targets, and the few that have hit ships only damaged them. While unfortunate, this sinking is a minor casualty in the overall war, as Ukraine has no navy to speak of and the sinking of this ship does not reverse or stop its territorial losses.
Details on the Ship:
https://www.kchf.ru/eng/ship/warfarecorvettes/ivanovets.htmhttps://podolyaka.ru/protivnik-opublikoval-kadry-gibeli-raketnogo-katera-ivanovets-proekta-12411-molniya-chernomorskogo-flota-na-reyde-ozera-donuzlav-v-krymu/https://southfront.press/ukrainian-naval-drones-destroyed-russian-missile-corvette-ivanovets/ No.4424
>>4421>Unfortunately it is inevitable that some incoming may get through, especially with NATO's assistance. The Ivanovets was caught alone several kilometers out from Donuzlav naval base The Ivanovets was sunk in a former lake that is connected by a 400 meter wide channel to the sea. There are few if any waterways in Crimea that are more defensible than that.
The main reason why Ukrainian drones don't sink more of the Black Sea fleet is that most vessels are restricted to the harbors or moved out of range from Crimea long ago.
No.4425
>>4424Thanks for proving that all you've done is read the introductory paragraphs of Western MSM. It was not sunk in the lake, it was sunk several kilometers off the coast of said naval base, which you can see in the pic I posted. It was alone on patrol outside the harbor, not as part of a group, which means that it was not, in fact, easily defensible. This is not like an aerial threat, where-in SAMs can cover huge swathes of the sky from long range. A small marine target requires close ranges to be detected and fired-upon, which is why most anti-ship cruise missiles fly low over the water to avoid detection before striking their targets. No matter if the ship detected them and immediately sent transmissions as to the situation, there is no possibility for another ship or aircraft to respond in time to assist in defense.
>The main reason why Ukrainian drones don't sink more of the Black Sea fleet is that most vessels are restricted to the harbors or moved out of range from CrimeaCouch /k/ope nonsense with no proofs.
No.4487
That's another one gone. The Caesar Kunikov sank just off the southern coast of Crimea. Anything outside of a fortified harbor and within 500 km of the Ukrainian coast is targets.
No.4488
>>4487>Posting here and not in the Ukraine thread As far as I know there is no footage of it sunk or sinking, only impacts and damage. All the video I can find has it low in the water and later listing but still horizontal in the water. A helicopter was seen deployed to the area, a Kamov Ka-26 or Ka-29 I think. The Ukrainian Navy has claimed every drone impact that hits a Russian ship as a "sinking" yet only the most recent one against the Tarantul-III class was actually proven. If there is proof of it being sunk I'd like to see it, because I trust the Ukrainian and Western Press to report the truth about as much as I'd trust a pathological liar. That being said I'm not excluding the possibility of a sinking, but without real visible proof I refuse to believe such claims from such people.
https://southfront.press/kiev-hides-losses-in-selidovo-with-successful-attack-on-russian-large-landing-ship/ No.4489
>>4488>don't know the whereabouts and no footage of a 112 meter vessel easily in sight range fron the coastSunk
Southfront of course used the least informative videos, but the first one shows a tug boat to the right of the smoke column from ammo that cooked off within the Kunikov wreckage.
There is much more hard evidence for the sinking of the Caesar Kunikov than there is for the Moskva. And the Moskva even looked better on the last images taken.
No.4491
>>4489>112 meters is somehow supposed to mean something AT SEA. >Southfront of course used the least informative videos >of courseAh its this faggot again. Go back.
> from ammo that cooked off I said this in the Ukraine thread, I'll say it again, WHAT FUCKING AMMO COOK-OFF? IT IS A LANDING SHIP, IT DOESN'T HAVE A MAGAZINE TO COOK-OFF AND CERTAINLY NOT IN THE AREA WHERE IT WAS IMPACTED ON THE DRONE FOOTAGE.
>There is hard evidence for the sinking of the Caesar Kunikov Where? A ship partially capsized =/= sunk, otherwise by that metric I've sunk a few boats in my youth too. The Ivanovets DID have proof it sank, we see a massive explosion and the ship clearly sinking under the waves.
No.4492
>>4491>WHAT FUCKING AMMO COOK-OFF? IT IS A LANDING SHIP, IT DOESN'T HAVE A MAGAZINE TO COOK-OFF AND CERTAINLY NOT IN THE AREA WHERE IT WAS IMPACTED ON THE DRONE FOOTAGE. Russians banned ammo from the Crimean bridge for safety reasons. It all comes over the sea or the land bridge to Crimea now. Remember the Novocherkassk?
No.4494
>>4492 1) Proof of ban? I don't remember such an announcement.
2) Landing ships are not used to transport ammunition or general cargo, they're LANDING ships, they transport troops and vehicles.
3) The Novocherkassk is yet another example of why I don't believe Western Media, I haven't seen a single proof of it destroyed. The photos of it supposedly being destroyed at dock are literally incomprehensible, because there's no clearly visible wreckage of a SHIP, just some fire damage to the land, and inb4 "le ebic storm shadows destroyed it that badly" 3 of those missiles directly hit a corvette in dry dock and the damage was mostly in regards to the superstructure and RADAR and whatnot. the hull was barely damaged in spite of 3 direct impacts, and the Buyan corvettes are MUCH smaller than a large landing ship.
No.4497
>>4494>The Novocherkassk is yet another example of why I don't believe Western Media, I haven't seen a single proof of it destroyed. I won't even bother because there is being retarded, which is an excuse and there is the deliberate ignorance of actively avoiding to see what one does not like. Just fucking google "Novocherkassk wreckage" to see the aftermath or "Novocherkassk maxar" for decent satellite images.
No.4498
>>4497>No results found for "Novocherkassk maxar".Was that really so hard to finally post proofs? All I ever saw posted were side photos of the docks that were incomprehensible. Regardless Landing ships still aren't used for ammo transport, when there are larger cargo ships used for that.
No.4501
>No results found for "Novocherkassk maxar"
What the actual fucking niguyghur
No.4599
>>4501LOL I meant to greentext something else in
>>4498 but accidentally copied my initial search result. I found photos after opening Google Images.
https://archive.is/oZAtS No.4601
>>4600Another ship was sank last week, Sergei Kotov a Project 22160 patrol ship named after a Soviet Admiral and war veteran. It sank trying to limp to port after being hit by multiple drones in a large drone swarm, many of which it destroyed. It's close position the Kerch strait and bridge has led some to theorize it was hit while defending the bridge, which is a credible reason*. The ship previously defeated 3 drone attacks prior to this.
*Reasons for credence
1) Ukraine has attacked the bridge and damaged it before, with the Truck Bomb
2) Russia has used marine drones to blow up Ukrainian bridges early on in the conflict
3) The recent leaked talks of the Bundeswehr using Taurus missiles to hit the bridge not long after this sinking, and the repeated attempts with Storm Shadow cruise missiles in recent times
https://southfront.press/patrol-ship-sergey-kotov-of-russian-black-sea-fleet-lost-last-battle-against-ukrainian-unmanned-boats/ No.4647
>>4646This is how U boats look like after returning from a several month mission and the brown stuff is algae and other biofouling.
No.4650
>>4135If there isn't proof that Storm Shadows are quickly losing what effectiveness they had, the recent failure of the massive assault is proof enough. Only 2 missiles made it through the SAMs in spite of several NATO recon aircraft guiding them and NATO forces helping program the missiles and GPS guidance as well. Those 2 missiles failed to hit any ships.
Nine aircraft (presumably Su-24M and Su-27) took off from Starokonstantinov, two MiG-29 from the Uman airfield and another Su-27 from Mirgorod. After reaching the line in Zatoka , Novaya Odessa and Snigirevka, Storm Shadow/SCALP, ADM-160 and Neptune missiles were launched.
https://southfront.press/satellite-imagery-confirmed-storm-shadow-missiles-missed-targets-in-sevastopol-crimea/ I think Electronic Warfare had a part in this as its been reported that GPS guided munitions like Excalibur and Himars missiles have been losing effectiveness.
>>4129https://topwar.ru/237013-pressa-ssha-v-hode-ukrainskogo-konflikta-boepripasy-s-gps-navedeniem-okazalis-ne-tak-jeffektivny.html No.4676
I stated this before but Ukraine's lack of a functional navy, especially after Russian forces captured the few patrol boats it had back in 2022, means Russia can't exactly demonstrate the same anti-shipping results that Ukraine has. However Ukraine has become more desperate in stalling the Russian advance and thrown its remaining brown-water navy into the fray. Moreover Belgium the Netherlands and Scandinavia are going to send patrol boats, gunboats and mine-trawlers to Ukraine as well, providing more targets.
https://topwar.ru/238577-niderlandy-i-belgija-planirujut-popolnit-ukrainskij-flot-esche-tremja-korabljami-protivominnoj-oborony.html As a result Russia's drones have started to strike back with both Lancet and FPV aerial drones, and with boat-drones.
https://southfront.press/russian-unmanned-boat-attacked-suspicious-ukrainian-steamer-in-kherson-region/ https://topwar.ru/238512-kadry-porazhenija-ukrainskogo-patrulnogo-katera-v-rajone-nikolaeva-dronom-kamikadze-lancet-pojavilis-v-seti.html https://southfront.press/in-video-russian-lancet-destroyed-ukrainian-armored-gunboat-in-mykolaiv-region/ https://southfront.press/in-video-russian-lancet-uav-struck-patrol-boat-probably-from-us-in-rear-mykolaiv-region/ No.4755
>>4754oh yeah I watched a whole video about this bullshit law, apparently every maritime disaster firm cites this law and then the prosecution has to specifically make the legal effort to argue it doesn't apply
No.4811
The US Navy never learns
>US financiers say that creating a new landing ship could cost three times more than originally thought
>All-adjusted for 2024 inflation, early estimates indicate that the 18-ship LSM program will cost between $6,2 billion and $7,8 billion, or $340 million to $430 million per ship. That's three times more than the US Navy's $2,6 billion estimate, or $150 million per ship.
>A financial report released April 11 noted the program would cost between $11,9 billion and $15 billion in 2024 dollars if the service ultimately procures the 35 ships required by the Marine Corps.
>The report identifies challenges in projecting the cost of the program, given remaining questions about what the entire project will look like and how the program will be used. In addition, there are inconsistencies between the way the US Navy and Marine Corps talk about the future of this program.
>The number of ships the U.S. will ultimately buy has not yet been determined, as the Marine Service has discussed purchasing 18 units while the Marines insist it needs 35 units.
>Experts have prepared cost estimates based on the hybrid military-commercial ship design that Navy and Marine Corps leaders have said they will pursue. If the landing ships are initially built according to all the announced standards, then this will increase the cost of the entire project to 3 billion for 18 ships, and to 6 billion for 35 ships, respectively.
>In turn, the use of simplified qualities and functionality of civil shipbuilding will reduce the entire project budget by 10 billion in the maximum version of 35 ships.
>For the record, the Navy originally planned to begin procurement in fiscal year 2023, but for budgetary reasons this was pushed back to 2025. The vessels will have a draft of 3,6 meters, will be able to travel about 6500 kilometers at a speed of 14 knots, and will approach the coastline to load and unload vehicles and supplies. The number of crew members of such ships is 70 sailors, the landing force is up to 50 military personnel.
No.4834
>>4820A Museum is one option being lobbied, but honestly the ship is a formidable weapon and still modern for its age. An overhaul would be a bit pricey but by simply replacing old computers and tech with compacter modern systems and give the hull maintenence overhaul, it would remain a powerful ship capable of nuking every US Capital on its own.
No.4836
>>4833>Several appear to use the technology developed for Littoral Combat ShipsThat… doesn't look like a good sign. Unless the fact that they are remote or AI-controlled makes them less cramped on the inside.
No.4841
>>4837>>4833How well this will work is questionable considering the extreme problems the US Navy is having over the past decade. Already the Littoral Combat Ships have been having members retired despite not serving nearly the usual time naval ships do because of inherent defects, the LCU Utility 1700* line is delayed and stuck in the docks and
>>4811 we can see that finance gauging is not the strong-suit of the MIC (Military Industrial Complex). The US Navy has diminished carrier capability despite its struggle to maintain and produce new carriers of different types
>>3861 . The F-35's pricey, complicated and unready nature (
>>3151 ) also impacts the carriers, as they lack proper mission readiness required if a large scale conflict breaks out, as is the current fear of an Iran-Israel war
https://topwar.ru/237020-desantnye-katera-ostajutsja-na-stapeljah-vms-ssha-rastorgli-kontrakt-na-postrojku-lcu-utility-1700.html https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2022/05/10/the-littoral-combat-ships-latest-problem-class-wide-structural-defects-leading-to-hull-cracks/ No.4854
>>4853It's truly the floating F-35.
Maybe it's for the best that the US has kept the same service rifle for half a century, I can't imagine what kind of hilarious abomination they would come up with from trying to redesign it
No.4855
>>4854>Maybe it's for the best that the US has kept the same service rifle for half a century, I can't imagine what kind of hilarious abomination they would come up with from trying to redesign itThe funny part is that the first M-16 was an absolute garbage fire to the point that troops preferred heavy M-14 or picked up AK-47s over it. I remember writing an essay in school about it years back. The AR-15 and M4 still has trouble shaking off that reputation, even in spite of all the problems being long since fixed and it actually being a good rifle now.
Also the US Army has been trying to replace the M4 for decades at this point, its just all attempts failed and looked like Starship Troopers parodies.
No.4856
>>4855>Also the US Army has been trying to replace the M4 for decades at this point, its just all attempts failed and looked like Starship Troopers parodies.I liked the XM-8. It was robbed. But that's probably just my bias from it being the best conventional rifle in the UFO: AfterX series.
No.4858
>>4856Probably good to just keep the familiar AR style instead of going to Sci Fi weapons. Funny how the top militaries keep making new versions of their 60s weapons (AK and AR) instead of doing the polymer alien nerf guns.
No.4859
>>4857That's just a slightly upgraded M4! I want my fish gun!
No.4861
>>4856 >>4859 >>4857 >>4858As OP This belongs in the AR thread.
That being said: the Marines' replacement is just a modern H&K, not significantly different. The XM-8 and others looked cool, but it has severe overheating issues when firing and it doesn't appear to be very modular, meaning any jamming or need to clean the weapon is going to be problematic. Electronic sights are also pretty temperamental at the moment.
Unique IPs: 17